WEBVTT - 12. Dig Two Graves 0:00:15.036 --> 0:00:26.436 Pushkin this spring. As we were finishing the show, my 0:00:26.516 --> 0:00:30.356 birthday rolled around again. I always associate this time of 0:00:30.436 --> 0:00:32.836 year with my trase now because it's when I learned 0:00:32.916 --> 0:00:37.036 Rick Forsberg's name. Three days before my birthday, I got 0:00:37.036 --> 0:00:40.796 a package at home. My first thought was someone sent 0:00:40.836 --> 0:00:45.836 me a gift, but it wasn't a gift. The package, 0:00:45.876 --> 0:00:48.916 from an online bookseller in England contained two copies of 0:00:48.956 --> 0:00:54.196 a book called Careless Talk Costs Lives. The picture on 0:00:54.236 --> 0:00:57.196 the cover was a drawing of two women talking, not 0:00:57.236 --> 0:01:01.716 realizing that Hitler and Gurring are sitting behind them. There 0:01:01.756 --> 0:01:05.756 was no return address and no note. I flipped open 0:01:05.796 --> 0:01:09.396 the book. It was full of propaganda posters from World 0:01:09.436 --> 0:01:14.316 War II England. But that wasn't the point. The point 0:01:14.396 --> 0:01:16.716 was the words that jumped out at me as I 0:01:16.796 --> 0:01:24.196 paged through, warning and be on your guard. I called Hayley. 0:01:24.996 --> 0:01:28.116 There were two copies, There were two women on the cover. 0:01:29.316 --> 0:01:34.036 We were two women reporting this story. We both felt 0:01:34.276 --> 0:01:37.276 this was a threat. Someone out there didn't like the 0:01:37.316 --> 0:01:42.196 direction of the reporting. Someone wanted us to stop. Over 0:01:42.276 --> 0:01:44.756 the past five years, we'd talked to so many people 0:01:44.836 --> 0:01:50.916 with so many competing agendas, cops, criminals, childhood friends of Ricks. 0:01:51.196 --> 0:01:54.156 Whoever it was, sending the package to my house was 0:01:54.196 --> 0:01:56.716 a not so subtle reminder that they knew where to 0:01:56.796 --> 0:02:00.916 find me. I went to my local police station and 0:02:00.956 --> 0:02:03.516 told the LAPD detective I met with that I was 0:02:03.556 --> 0:02:06.916 in the midst of sensitive reporting on the Mytries Richardson case, 0:02:07.556 --> 0:02:12.116 which I reminded him started as an LAPD missing person's case. 0:02:12.876 --> 0:02:16.276 The detective perked up at that. He agreed the package 0:02:16.316 --> 0:02:18.996 was meaningful. He asked to keep one of the copies 0:02:19.036 --> 0:02:22.276 of the book and my business card, and he told 0:02:22.276 --> 0:02:28.156 me essentially to be on my guard. The whole episode 0:02:28.196 --> 0:02:32.276 made me feel like we were getting closer to the truth. 0:02:37.476 --> 0:03:07.636 I'm Dana Goodyear and this is Lost Hills, Episode twelve, 0:03:08.476 --> 0:03:17.396 Dig two Graves. About six months before she disappeared, My 0:03:17.476 --> 0:03:20.996 Trees developed a new interest right before my. 0:03:21.076 --> 0:03:25.516 Trees went missing. She wanted to buy a motorcycle. 0:03:26.396 --> 0:03:30.116 This is my Teres's dad, Michael again. He says, in 0:03:30.196 --> 0:03:33.356 July two thousand and nine, my Trees had a motorcycle 0:03:33.436 --> 0:03:36.116 driving test. He wanted to go with her, but he 0:03:36.156 --> 0:03:37.276 had just started a new. 0:03:37.196 --> 0:03:40.556 Job and now was something that I regret to this 0:03:40.676 --> 0:03:43.596 day because that would have been the last thing possibly 0:03:43.716 --> 0:03:44.676 that we've done together. 0:03:46.116 --> 0:03:48.516 Haley and I are visiting Michael at home in his 0:03:48.556 --> 0:03:51.196 garage where he has a kind of shrine set up 0:03:51.196 --> 0:03:53.596 to the memory of my Trees and what happened to her. 0:03:54.436 --> 0:03:57.876 There are collages of family photos and framed articles about 0:03:57.876 --> 0:04:01.996 her disappearance. The garage is where he keeps his white 0:04:02.076 --> 0:04:04.516 sixty six Chevy with the portrait of my Trese on 0:04:04.556 --> 0:04:07.556 the trunk, and where he also keeps the front piece 0:04:07.716 --> 0:04:10.476 of the orange and cream color to Harley Davidson he 0:04:10.556 --> 0:04:14.316 bought in her honor after she died. Just like the car, 0:04:14.516 --> 0:04:16.956 the Harley has a portrait of My Trees painted on it. 0:04:18.276 --> 0:04:21.276 My friends teased me because they was like this dude 0:04:21.836 --> 0:04:24.236 never rode them any bike, never had a scooter. 0:04:24.596 --> 0:04:25.156 And when he. 0:04:25.156 --> 0:04:28.636 Came, he came with a fifty thousand dollars motorcycle, custom built, 0:04:29.156 --> 0:04:30.676 ready to ride, and the whole thing. 0:04:31.516 --> 0:04:33.996 But we're not here to see the motorcycle or the car. 0:04:34.996 --> 0:04:37.276 We're here because Michael told us he has a bag 0:04:37.356 --> 0:04:40.436 full of My Trees's clothing. He found the clothing in 0:04:40.476 --> 0:04:44.516 her car. It was there when she disappeared. It's been 0:04:44.556 --> 0:04:48.876 packed away in the garage untouched for almost fifteen years. 0:04:49.076 --> 0:04:51.796 He's never opened it. 0:04:51.796 --> 0:04:55.636 It's in a ziplock bag, and some just told me, 0:04:55.716 --> 0:04:57.236 never get rid of and I couldn't do it if 0:04:57.276 --> 0:05:01.036 I wanted to, you know, So I just always felt 0:05:01.076 --> 0:05:05.236 like someday somehow were gonna need him, We're gonna need him, 0:05:05.556 --> 0:05:08.996 and so I kept him in a plastic ziplock bag. 0:05:09.396 --> 0:05:13.996 I know we'll see, yeah, So let me know when 0:05:13.996 --> 0:05:14.436 you're ready. 0:05:15.716 --> 0:05:18.236 Michael heads for the back corner of the garage where 0:05:18.276 --> 0:05:21.276 he has some metal shelves. He pulls down one of 0:05:21.316 --> 0:05:23.836 those clear plastic bags for storing pillows. 0:05:28.876 --> 0:05:34.556 Is you know we have this same that this girl 0:05:34.796 --> 0:05:37.516 wants the will to know who did this. 0:05:39.876 --> 0:05:46.436 When we see the clothing through the bag, something unexpected happens. 0:05:52.476 --> 0:05:55.996 Gosh, Michael, I am feeling emotional. 0:05:55.476 --> 0:05:57.116 Seeing the s into. 0:05:59.556 --> 0:06:02.516 There's just something about seeing this man hold his daughter's 0:06:02.556 --> 0:06:06.076 belongings in his arms. It's what's left of her from 0:06:06.076 --> 0:06:08.716 that night, what she had with her in her car 0:06:08.756 --> 0:06:12.356 when she is arrested. It's who she was until the 0:06:12.356 --> 0:06:17.836 moment her identity flattened out into victim. We're closer to 0:06:17.876 --> 0:06:21.316 my trees than we've ever been, as close as we'll 0:06:21.356 --> 0:06:25.156 ever get. We walk out to the driveway and Michael 0:06:25.196 --> 0:06:28.396 sits down in a folding chair. We put on our 0:06:28.516 --> 0:06:31.636 N ninety five's and gloves and get to work. I 0:06:31.716 --> 0:06:35.156 unzip the bag and start removing its contents. Some of 0:06:35.196 --> 0:06:37.956 the clothes and shoes were clearly part of my Trees's 0:06:37.996 --> 0:06:41.356 Go Go dancing wardrobe. A glove, a strip of purple 0:06:41.396 --> 0:06:46.396 sequined cloth, tall boots, strappy heels. So this is like 0:06:46.436 --> 0:06:48.996 a patent leather. Do you think she would wear this 0:06:49.196 --> 0:06:50.836 at Debra's? 0:06:51.036 --> 0:06:52.316 Yeah, yeah, definitely. 0:06:53.396 --> 0:06:55.436 I line everything up on the pavement. 0:06:56.316 --> 0:07:04.796 One two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine pairs 0:07:04.836 --> 0:07:08.236 of shoes, which includes three pairs of boots, one of 0:07:08.236 --> 0:07:12.116 which are uggs, and then there are one of those 0:07:12.156 --> 0:07:12.836 is flip flaps. 0:07:12.876 --> 0:07:22.036 The rest are high heels. Deeper in the bag we 0:07:22.116 --> 0:07:25.916 find my Trece's makeup kit. Inside it's a tangle of 0:07:25.996 --> 0:07:29.636 chunky beads and brightly colored hoop earrings, and buried in 0:07:29.676 --> 0:07:32.236 there in a tangled knot, is the thing we've been 0:07:32.236 --> 0:07:33.116 looking for. 0:07:35.516 --> 0:07:38.036 That looks like it might be underwear or something that 0:07:38.516 --> 0:07:39.516 striped underneath? 0:07:39.836 --> 0:07:43.036 See that little right does striped? 0:07:44.276 --> 0:07:44.396 Oh? 0:07:44.476 --> 0:07:47.876 Yeah, yeah, yes, you're right, good, good that is underwear. 0:07:48.196 --> 0:07:52.356 Can I have a plastic bag? Its size, medium, purple 0:07:52.396 --> 0:07:56.236 and black stripes mesh very similar to some of the 0:07:56.276 --> 0:07:59.836 items we found inside the suitcase at Rick's Fort. All 0:07:59.876 --> 0:08:02.756 of a sudden, it seems a lot more likely that 0:08:02.796 --> 0:08:05.996 one of the pairs of Fort underwear could be my Treces. 0:08:07.356 --> 0:08:09.676 We bag up the thong along with a purple hair 0:08:09.716 --> 0:08:13.716 brush filled with my Teresa's hair. Michael says we can 0:08:13.756 --> 0:08:17.076 have them tested for DNA. He's willing to do anything 0:08:17.116 --> 0:08:17.756 at this point. 0:08:19.036 --> 0:08:21.436 I can't get a case close if I'm limited to 0:08:21.476 --> 0:08:23.876 what I give you, guys. I have to be open 0:08:23.916 --> 0:08:27.516 to like here, you're taking this serious, so I want 0:08:27.556 --> 0:08:28.476 you guys to have it. 0:08:29.716 --> 0:08:32.756 The handling of my Teresa's clothing from the remain site 0:08:32.796 --> 0:08:36.876 was completely botched. Nothing was even tested till after her 0:08:36.876 --> 0:08:40.916 body was exhumed, a year after the discovery. We don't 0:08:40.956 --> 0:08:43.476 know exactly what was done at that point, but nothing 0:08:43.556 --> 0:08:47.916 came of it. We're hoping that through forensic evidence, we 0:08:47.956 --> 0:08:51.796 can place my Teres at Rick's Fort. It's a long shot, 0:08:52.396 --> 0:08:55.396 but finding that stuff at the fort was so improbable 0:08:56.196 --> 0:09:02.476 we have to try. Angela Butler is a DNA analyst 0:09:02.596 --> 0:09:05.076 at a private forensics lab in the Bay Area. 0:09:06.116 --> 0:09:11.356 I typically take the most challenging cases lab. Right now, 0:09:11.396 --> 0:09:13.316 I'm doing a lot of cold cases. 0:09:14.076 --> 0:09:18.836 Her lab works with cops, prosecutors, and innocence projects, handling 0:09:18.916 --> 0:09:23.036 a lot of high profile cases, The Nightstalker, Richard Ramirez, 0:09:23.556 --> 0:09:29.676 Scott Peterson, Kristen Smart, and now my Terce Richardson. With 0:09:29.716 --> 0:09:33.436 Michael's permission, we sent my Teresa's hairbrush to Butler. We 0:09:33.596 --> 0:09:36.876 also sent the two size medium black thongs we found 0:09:36.916 --> 0:09:40.076 at Rick's fort. If she could get my Teresa's DNA 0:09:40.156 --> 0:09:44.116 from the hairbrush and DNA from the fort underwear, she'd 0:09:44.156 --> 0:09:47.556 be able to compare the profiles there could be a match. 0:09:48.836 --> 0:09:53.276 She started with the hairbrush. 0:09:51.716 --> 0:09:54.756 So I took a few swabs and I really got 0:09:54.796 --> 0:09:58.116 into the base of those bristles, and there was plenty 0:09:58.116 --> 0:10:03.796 of material that was visible on the swabs, and I thought, great, 0:10:04.596 --> 0:10:09.596 this will be enough to get me something. 0:10:10.836 --> 0:10:14.356 But when Butler analyzed it, the material was very degraded 0:10:14.676 --> 0:10:16.356 and there was almost no DNA. 0:10:17.316 --> 0:10:19.916 I would have wanted to see at least ten times 0:10:19.916 --> 0:10:26.756 as much DNA to get at least a partial profile, 0:10:28.716 --> 0:10:33.796 and the quality was very poor. 0:10:35.556 --> 0:10:38.796 That was disappointing. But we could potentially build out my 0:10:38.876 --> 0:10:42.516 Terrees's DNA profile a different way, particularly if her dad 0:10:42.596 --> 0:10:46.196 was willing to help. So Butler moved on to see what, 0:10:46.676 --> 0:10:50.396 if anything she could get from the fort underwear. We'd 0:10:50.436 --> 0:10:53.556 warned her it was muddy, moldy, and damp, and as 0:10:53.556 --> 0:10:56.036 far as we knew, had been outside for more than 0:10:56.076 --> 0:11:00.156 a decade. She started with the pair that was most 0:11:00.196 --> 0:11:02.636 similar to the pair that my Teres had in her car, 0:11:03.236 --> 0:11:06.716 the black thong size medium with the rampage label. 0:11:07.876 --> 0:11:12.196 Well, though when those came out of the bag, those 0:11:12.196 --> 0:11:17.636 were still wet. I know that bacterial degradation is probably 0:11:17.836 --> 0:11:22.156 actively happening, so right out of the gate, I thought, 0:11:22.356 --> 0:11:25.236 oh boy, this isn't good. 0:11:26.076 --> 0:11:29.716 She sampled the crotch area, extracted the DNA and found 0:11:29.756 --> 0:11:31.556 only a tiny amount. 0:11:31.876 --> 0:11:37.036 Such a trace amount, it was the equivalent of a sells. 0:11:36.436 --> 0:11:37.436 Worth of DNA. 0:11:38.476 --> 0:11:42.436 There was nowhere near enough DNA to identify an individual. 0:11:43.236 --> 0:11:47.036 We'd struck out. We didn't have the resources to test 0:11:47.076 --> 0:11:50.476 the rest of the Fort underwear, but Butler encouraged us 0:11:50.596 --> 0:11:53.756 not to throw away what we'd found, so I called 0:11:53.796 --> 0:11:57.396 the cold case desk at the Sheriff's Department Homicide Bureau again. 0:11:57.796 --> 0:12:01.956 They could test it all if they wanted to. The 0:12:02.076 --> 0:12:04.916 last time, I spoke to Lieutenant Michael Modica, who's in 0:12:04.996 --> 0:12:07.676 charge of the cold case unit. He wasn't interested in 0:12:07.716 --> 0:12:10.876 hearing about any of our discovery, but he did say 0:12:10.876 --> 0:12:12.756 to get in touch if we had any luck with 0:12:12.796 --> 0:12:16.236 the forensics. I feel like I owe him an answer, 0:12:17.076 --> 0:12:19.436 and I'm hoping to convince him to take the stash 0:12:19.476 --> 0:12:22.596 of underwear from rix Ford and do something with it. 0:12:23.356 --> 0:12:25.596 Lieutenant Michael Modica. 0:12:26.516 --> 0:12:31.556 Is not available record your message at the tone. Hi, 0:12:31.676 --> 0:12:35.476 Lieutenant Modica, this is Dana Goodyear from the Lost House podcast. 0:12:35.876 --> 0:12:39.196 I left word for you on Monday regarding the Mitries 0:12:39.316 --> 0:12:42.676 Richardson case and some materials that I have mentioned to you. 0:12:43.116 --> 0:12:45.076 We've come to the end of the road with what 0:12:45.156 --> 0:12:48.796 we can do, and I'm just wondering if you might 0:12:48.876 --> 0:12:52.836 have any interests. I think that potentially law enforcement would 0:12:52.836 --> 0:12:54.596 be able to take this further than we could using 0:12:54.636 --> 0:12:55.316 a credit lab. 0:12:56.556 --> 0:13:00.996 I'm still waiting for him to call me back, but 0:13:01.076 --> 0:13:04.996 in the meantime we get a big surprise. Mark Wallace, 0:13:05.476 --> 0:13:10.676 Rix's firefighter friend calls me. Rick stayed at Mark's place 0:13:10.836 --> 0:13:13.476 on and off between two thousand and nine, when Rick 0:13:13.516 --> 0:13:16.676 got out of prison. In twenty twelve, when he was 0:13:16.716 --> 0:13:20.636 investigated again by the Sheriff's Department homicide detectives in the 0:13:20.676 --> 0:13:25.516 disappearance and death of my Teres Richardson. Mark's supposed to 0:13:25.556 --> 0:13:29.956 be the guy who knows what happened, and now Mark 0:13:30.076 --> 0:13:50.476 wants to talk. Mark Wallace dodged us for almost a year. 0:13:51.196 --> 0:13:53.796 It wasn't until we sent him a formal write of 0:13:53.876 --> 0:13:56.956 reply letter telling him what we were planning to report 0:13:56.996 --> 0:14:00.236 about Rick Forsberg and the goings on at the Wallypad 0:14:00.676 --> 0:14:03.916 that he relented and said we could come over, but 0:14:03.996 --> 0:14:06.996 we're just talking for now. He doesn't want us to 0:14:07.036 --> 0:14:11.396 record in case we might be caught. The first thing 0:14:11.436 --> 0:14:13.836 that happens when we get to the Walipad is Mark 0:14:13.916 --> 0:14:17.036 has us move our cars. We've parked them at an 0:14:17.036 --> 0:14:21.076 intersection near his house. That's the place he tells us 0:14:21.196 --> 0:14:24.436 that the cops set up surveillance cameras back when Rick 0:14:24.596 --> 0:14:28.356 was crashing in his basement. The homicide detectives had shown 0:14:28.396 --> 0:14:31.396 him a big portfolio of photos of Rick and some 0:14:31.476 --> 0:14:34.956 of their other derelict friends doing speedballs in their car. 0:14:35.316 --> 0:14:39.316 Right there, is it any wonder Mark's a little paranoid. 0:14:40.596 --> 0:14:44.676 Mar's in his sixties, boyish and wiry with a jumpy energy. 0:14:45.276 --> 0:14:48.596 He retired as a fire captain in January. His mother, 0:14:48.876 --> 0:14:54.596 who has dementia, lives next door. Lisa Goldman, Mark's wife, 0:14:54.876 --> 0:14:57.716 says she used to get the chills when Rick came around. 0:14:58.676 --> 0:15:03.156 Spooky is the word she uses. Psycho is what Mark says, 0:15:04.236 --> 0:15:07.676 afraid of no One drunk and high every single day 0:15:07.676 --> 0:15:11.916 of his life. They show us the little basement room 0:15:11.956 --> 0:15:15.196 where Rick would stay. Back then it had a dirt floor. 0:15:16.196 --> 0:15:19.836 Mark says that's where Raven made her video interview and 0:15:19.876 --> 0:15:23.916 where Rick choked Lisa Lapour and he says, almost broke 0:15:23.956 --> 0:15:28.516 her neck. Mark tells us the footprints found outside his 0:15:28.596 --> 0:15:32.636 house are a red herring. The first indication he had 0:15:32.676 --> 0:15:35.276 that Rick was connected to my Teresa's death was when 0:15:35.276 --> 0:15:39.556 her body was discovered in Dark Canyon. The rangers said 0:15:39.596 --> 0:15:43.916 they were checking on a previously disrupted marijuana operation, presumably 0:15:43.956 --> 0:15:47.396 something large scale, but Mark says when he saw the 0:15:47.436 --> 0:15:52.556 helicopter hovering over Dark Canyon, his first thought was, oh fuck, 0:15:52.796 --> 0:15:57.756 they're rating Rick's patch. Rick had been growing weed in 0:15:57.876 --> 0:16:01.316 Dark Canyon since they were boys. No One dared go 0:16:01.396 --> 0:16:05.076 in there. Rick had the place booby trapped, so when 0:16:05.076 --> 0:16:13.356 a woman's body turned up there, Mark immediately suspected. Mark 0:16:13.396 --> 0:16:17.076 says Rick was a total charmer, the guy who always 0:16:17.116 --> 0:16:20.396 had the prettiest girlfriend, and he says, could talk the 0:16:20.476 --> 0:16:24.836 pants off any chick. Hey, Darlin, that's what he'd say. 0:16:25.676 --> 0:16:28.356 But then he'd lose his temper over nothing and choke 0:16:28.436 --> 0:16:34.836 them out psycho. So Mark always had his suspicions. But 0:16:35.156 --> 0:16:38.156 he tells us it's not like he has some smoking gun, 0:16:39.036 --> 0:16:44.676 some big confession from Rick. Mark says, quote. The Mitrice 0:16:44.796 --> 0:16:52.516 Richardson case has everything except proof it's true. The case 0:16:52.556 --> 0:16:57.116 against Rick Forsberg is purely circumstantial at this point, but 0:16:57.356 --> 0:17:01.916 enough circumstantial evidence can close a case. So here is 0:17:01.916 --> 0:17:06.036 what we know and what we don't. We know Rick 0:17:06.076 --> 0:17:08.636 got out of prison in July two thousand and nine 0:17:09.116 --> 0:17:12.796 and returned to Montanito two months before My Trees turned 0:17:12.876 --> 0:17:16.396 up there. We don't know how my Trees got from 0:17:16.516 --> 0:17:20.236 Lost Hill Station to Montanito. The timing is such that 0:17:20.636 --> 0:17:23.716 she could have walked, though her mother thought that was unlikely. 0:17:25.156 --> 0:17:27.956 We know Rick had access to a motorcycle, and he 0:17:28.036 --> 0:17:31.236 said he picked my Trees up. We don't know where 0:17:31.556 --> 0:17:35.916 or when the motorcycle could help explain my Trees's disappearing 0:17:35.996 --> 0:17:41.036 scent and non continuous footprints. We know my Trees loitered 0:17:41.156 --> 0:17:44.436 outside Mark Wallace's house around the time of her disappearance. 0:17:45.276 --> 0:17:47.796 We don't know if Rick was at Marx at the time, 0:17:48.076 --> 0:17:50.596 and we have no evidence that my Trees went onto 0:17:50.596 --> 0:17:54.236 Mark's property. We know Rick knew how to get into 0:17:54.316 --> 0:17:58.596 Dark Canyon, where my Trece's remains were found. We know 0:17:58.756 --> 0:18:02.516 my Trees liked motorcycles and smoking pot, and that she 0:18:02.636 --> 0:18:05.476 was in an altered state where her normal decision making 0:18:05.516 --> 0:18:09.436 processes may have been suspended. Not to mention, she was 0:18:09.476 --> 0:18:13.756 probably growing desperate. She may have been hungry, thirsty, and 0:18:13.836 --> 0:18:19.276 looking for help. Hey, Darling, we don't know if my 0:18:19.436 --> 0:18:23.316 Teres went willingly into Dark Canyon. We don't know why 0:18:23.356 --> 0:18:26.996 her remains were partially mummified. Was that due to the 0:18:27.036 --> 0:18:31.236 fluctuating temperatures and soil conditions in Dark Canyon, or does 0:18:31.236 --> 0:18:35.396 it indicate her remains were kept somewhere else then moved. 0:18:36.356 --> 0:18:40.196 We know my Teres's death was suspicious. A young woman 0:18:40.636 --> 0:18:44.556 naked in a canyon, half her clothes missing, The rest 0:18:44.556 --> 0:18:49.756 of them scattered her belt out of her belt loops. 0:18:52.116 --> 0:18:56.556 We don't know how My Trees died. Her death could 0:18:56.556 --> 0:18:59.876 have been an accident. What if she was hanging out 0:18:59.876 --> 0:19:06.316 with Rick Forsberg and fell or overdosed. The autopsy, unfortunately, 0:19:06.596 --> 0:19:11.036 was inconclusive. There wasn't enough so off tissue left. We 0:19:11.116 --> 0:19:14.076 do know it's highly improbable that my Trees died from 0:19:14.156 --> 0:19:18.396 gunshot or knife wound or blunt force trauma. No indications 0:19:18.396 --> 0:19:22.636 of trauma were observed, and the comment Lisa Lapore repeated 0:19:22.676 --> 0:19:26.556 about Rick cutting her up. If such a remark was made, 0:19:26.676 --> 0:19:29.716 it was probably not literal. There was nothing on my 0:19:29.836 --> 0:19:33.956 Teres's bones to indicate dismemberment, though according to the forensic 0:19:33.996 --> 0:19:37.916 pathologist who conducted the autopsy, her throat could have been cut. 0:19:38.476 --> 0:19:40.836 Without soft tissue, there would be no way to know 0:19:43.076 --> 0:19:47.956 was my Trees strangled. If investigators had found her hyoid 0:19:48.036 --> 0:19:51.316 bone and it had been broken, that could have been definitive. 0:19:51.916 --> 0:19:55.116 But it was never found, so we don't know if 0:19:55.196 --> 0:19:59.916 my Truce was strangled. We do know Rick said he 0:19:59.996 --> 0:20:03.756 picked her up. We do know Rick had a history 0:20:03.876 --> 0:20:08.196 of violence against women. We do know he had a 0:20:08.276 --> 0:20:10.036 history of strangling women. 0:20:11.836 --> 0:20:14.636 We know when it comes to strangulation. Strangulation is a 0:20:14.676 --> 0:20:15.436 gender crime. 0:20:16.156 --> 0:20:19.516 Gail Strack is a former prosecutor and an expert on 0:20:19.596 --> 0:20:25.156 strangulation in cases of domestic violence. She says strangulation is 0:20:25.196 --> 0:20:27.196 typically a prelude to murder. 0:20:27.596 --> 0:20:31.036 If you look at the continual of violence, strangulation is 0:20:31.116 --> 0:20:34.276 at the end of just before a homicide. 0:20:35.076 --> 0:20:37.916 The act of strangling and the act of strangling to 0:20:37.996 --> 0:20:39.836 death are essentially the same. 0:20:40.556 --> 0:20:43.316 And when somebody is willing to put their hands around 0:20:43.596 --> 0:20:46.636 someone's neck and especially take them to the point where 0:20:46.676 --> 0:20:50.396 they pass out they think they're going to die, it 0:20:50.436 --> 0:20:53.556 is a calling card of a killer. It is a 0:20:53.636 --> 0:20:57.036 killer raising his hand and saying I am willing and 0:20:57.156 --> 0:20:58.716 capable of killing someone. 0:20:59.996 --> 0:21:03.276 Strangulation is one of the easiest forms of homicide to 0:21:03.276 --> 0:21:05.116 commit and to cover up. 0:21:05.716 --> 0:21:10.476 It only takes eleven pounds of pressure. Is really nothing. 0:21:11.156 --> 0:21:14.636 Doctor Bill Smock, a sworn police officer and an expert 0:21:14.636 --> 0:21:18.316 in forensic medicine, says strangulation can pose a challenge to 0:21:18.396 --> 0:21:21.996 law enforcement. It's a crime that can leave no marks, 0:21:22.596 --> 0:21:25.196 and it requires surprisingly little strength. 0:21:26.156 --> 0:21:29.556 If you think an adult male handshake generates one hundred 0:21:29.556 --> 0:21:33.036 pounds of pressure, one tenth of that. It's all that's 0:21:33.076 --> 0:21:36.316 required to include blood float to the brain via the 0:21:36.316 --> 0:21:37.236 carotid arteries. 0:21:37.836 --> 0:21:40.836 Doctor Smock was one of the key experts to testify 0:21:40.916 --> 0:21:44.596 in the prosecution of Derek Chauvin, the police officer found 0:21:44.636 --> 0:21:46.396 guilty of killing George Floyd. 0:21:47.116 --> 0:21:50.956 If you apply a bicep and forearm to the human deck, 0:21:51.516 --> 0:21:54.836 you have a large surface area where that pressure is applied. Again, 0:21:55.476 --> 0:21:58.796 it can be applied in such a manner even with 0:21:58.956 --> 0:22:01.596 more than eleven pounds of pressure, and you will never 0:22:01.836 --> 0:22:02.676 leave a mark. 0:22:03.436 --> 0:22:06.516 We talk about the specifics of my Teresa's case and 0:22:06.556 --> 0:22:10.556 what seems to me the glaringly inadequate explanation law enforcement 0:22:10.596 --> 0:22:14.156 gave about her death. Their view that being mentally ill, 0:22:14.476 --> 0:22:16.876 she probably just chose to die. 0:22:16.996 --> 0:22:21.676 And that's totally bs. We call those a diagnosis of 0:22:21.796 --> 0:22:26.916 exclusion once she ruled out everything else. But clearly a 0:22:26.956 --> 0:22:31.676 woman who has found dead and naked is high on 0:22:31.716 --> 0:22:33.236 the suspicious list. 0:22:33.916 --> 0:22:37.956 The circumstances of my Teresa's death, doctor Smock says, suggest 0:22:37.996 --> 0:22:38.756 a homicide. 0:22:39.276 --> 0:22:44.276 You have to assume that it's a homicide till proven otherwise. Plus, 0:22:44.396 --> 0:22:47.956 you have her clothes are away from the body, the 0:22:48.036 --> 0:22:51.916 belt is out was the belt used as a weapon. 0:22:52.076 --> 0:22:55.556 Whose DNA is on that belt? Why is it out 0:22:55.556 --> 0:22:58.796 of the pants? Things that you have to explain. You 0:22:58.836 --> 0:23:02.476 can't say, Oh, she took her clothes off and went 0:23:02.516 --> 0:23:04.436 over there and laid down to die. No, twenty four 0:23:04.516 --> 0:23:14.356 year olds can't lie down and will yourself to die. 0:23:15.196 --> 0:23:19.956 And so it's just kind of weird for me to 0:23:22.356 --> 0:23:22.956 be saying it. 0:23:22.996 --> 0:23:27.676 But finally, Mark Wallace is ready for us to hit record. 0:23:28.436 --> 0:23:31.036 All right, well are you recording hours? And let me sure? 0:23:31.196 --> 0:23:34.876 Let's see for more than two hours, Haley and I 0:23:34.916 --> 0:23:38.036 have been sitting by his pool. It's a beautiful spot 0:23:38.236 --> 0:23:41.316 looking out over the Santa Monica Mountains and the backside 0:23:41.316 --> 0:23:44.876 of Dark Canyon. Mark thinks of his pool as a 0:23:44.916 --> 0:23:48.756 swimming hole and the big boulder, which Rick placed for him, 0:23:49.036 --> 0:23:52.036 as a diving rock, like the spots they found in 0:23:52.076 --> 0:23:56.436 the canyon creeks when they were boys. Mark's got deep 0:23:56.516 --> 0:23:59.156 loyalty to Rick and to the way they were raised 0:23:59.156 --> 0:24:02.556 in Montanito. He's not sure what he might be risking 0:24:02.836 --> 0:24:03.796 by talking to us. 0:24:05.036 --> 0:24:08.916 So the cops could listen to me decide they want 0:24:08.956 --> 0:24:14.076 to fuck with me, My friends could listen to me, 0:24:14.436 --> 0:24:21.356 and I think I'm a rat or a something else, 0:24:21.476 --> 0:24:21.716 you know. 0:24:24.876 --> 0:24:27.596 But he also has a little more information about Rick, 0:24:28.396 --> 0:24:31.596 and in spite of his reluctance, he's going to share. 0:24:31.396 --> 0:24:34.916 It, all right, So what do you want? 0:24:36.636 --> 0:24:38.956 I want to hear the story of what happened when 0:24:38.956 --> 0:24:42.956 the Sheriff's homicide detectives interviewed Mark about Rick back in 0:24:42.956 --> 0:24:47.316 twenty twelve, when Rick was crashing in his basement. They 0:24:47.356 --> 0:24:50.596 spoke to him for five hours in a conference room 0:24:50.676 --> 0:24:53.956 at his firehouse, and at the end they asked him 0:24:53.996 --> 0:24:56.756 for his help because they knew Rick was violent. 0:24:57.916 --> 0:25:00.796 They told me they wanted to take Rick in for questioning, 0:25:00.996 --> 0:25:05.756 and that last time he was taken in, he fought 0:25:05.836 --> 0:25:08.876 the cops and he broke one's arm or leg or 0:25:08.876 --> 0:25:11.196 something thing, and then he also biddle holding another one's 0:25:11.276 --> 0:25:15.836 chest fighting him and then so they didn't want to 0:25:15.836 --> 0:25:18.436 have that happen again, so they wanted me to smooth 0:25:19.316 --> 0:25:23.796 the way for Rick to be interviewed and to get 0:25:24.116 --> 0:25:25.676 a light detector test. 0:25:26.156 --> 0:25:28.996 Mark went home and told Rick that the homicide detectives 0:25:29.036 --> 0:25:31.916 wanted to talk to him about the disappearance and possible 0:25:31.996 --> 0:25:36.796 murder of my Teres Richardson. Mark says Rick gasped. 0:25:37.636 --> 0:25:37.836 Yeah. 0:25:37.876 --> 0:25:40.076 He was like, oh my god, like the cops, what 0:25:40.516 --> 0:25:44.396 the cops are fucking got me down as the as 0:25:44.436 --> 0:25:45.516 a suspect. 0:25:46.436 --> 0:25:48.076 They want to talk to me about it, you know? 0:25:48.196 --> 0:25:51.636 And I mean he didn't. He just Rick has a 0:25:51.636 --> 0:25:52.916 way of like just kind of like. 0:25:52.876 --> 0:25:55.836 Looking through you and sometimes and he kind of like 0:25:55.996 --> 0:25:58.276 got the information from me, and then he was off 0:25:58.276 --> 0:26:00.956 in his own mind like trying to figure out what 0:26:00.956 --> 0:26:01.916 he's going to do about it. 0:26:03.156 --> 0:26:05.036 He freaked out. 0:26:06.436 --> 0:26:09.996 And started grabbing for his phone, like, I got to 0:26:10.036 --> 0:26:11.196 call Steve right now. 0:26:12.116 --> 0:26:16.556 Rick called Steve Gilbert, another Montanito boy who has since died, 0:26:17.276 --> 0:26:18.356 but he didn't reach him. 0:26:19.396 --> 0:26:21.396 He left Steve a message right in front of me 0:26:21.396 --> 0:26:27.316 and said, Steve, the cops think I murdered somebody. And 0:26:27.356 --> 0:26:29.716