1 00:00:15,066 --> 00:00:15,506 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:23,896 --> 00:00:26,856 Speaker 2: This spring, as we were finishing the show, my birthday 3 00:00:26,896 --> 00:00:30,556 Speaker 2: rolled around again. I always associate this time of year 4 00:00:30,596 --> 00:00:33,076 Speaker 2: with my trees now because it's when I learned Rick 5 00:00:33,136 --> 00:00:37,086 Speaker 2: Forsberg's name. Three days before my birthday, I got a 6 00:00:37,116 --> 00:00:40,886 Speaker 2: package at home. My first thought was, someone sent me 7 00:00:40,946 --> 00:00:46,026 Speaker 2: a gift. But it wasn't a gift. The package from 8 00:00:46,066 --> 00:00:48,986 Speaker 2: an online bookseller in England contained two copies of a 9 00:00:49,026 --> 00:00:54,266 Speaker 2: book called Careless Talk Costs Lives. The picture on the 10 00:00:54,306 --> 00:00:57,826 Speaker 2: cover was a drawing of two women talking, not realizing 11 00:00:57,906 --> 00:01:01,806 Speaker 2: that Hitler and Goering are sitting behind them. There was 12 00:01:01,846 --> 00:01:06,086 Speaker 2: no return address and no note. I flipped open the book. 13 00:01:06,926 --> 00:01:10,286 Speaker 2: It was full of propaganda posters from World War II England. 14 00:01:11,316 --> 00:01:15,306 Speaker 2: But that wasn't the point. The point was the words 15 00:01:15,366 --> 00:01:19,086 Speaker 2: that jumped out at me as I paged through. Warning 16 00:01:20,066 --> 00:01:25,306 Speaker 2: and be on your guard. I called Haley. There were 17 00:01:25,326 --> 00:01:29,506 Speaker 2: two copies. There were two women on the cover. We 18 00:01:29,546 --> 00:01:34,366 Speaker 2: were two women reporting this story. We both felt this 19 00:01:34,426 --> 00:01:37,666 Speaker 2: was a threat. Someone out there didn't like the direction 20 00:01:37,706 --> 00:01:42,336 Speaker 2: of the reporting. Someone wanted us to stop. Over the 21 00:01:42,376 --> 00:01:44,936 Speaker 2: past five years, we'd talked to so many people with 22 00:01:44,976 --> 00:01:49,996 Speaker 2: so many competing agendas. Cops, criminals, childhood friends of Rick's. 23 00:01:51,236 --> 00:01:54,136 Speaker 2: Whoever it was, sending the package to my house was 24 00:01:54,176 --> 00:01:57,156 Speaker 2: a not-so-subtle reminder that they knew where to find me. 25 00:01:58,916 --> 00:02:01,336 Speaker 2: I went to my local police station and told the 26 00:02:01,526 --> 00:02:03,726 Speaker 2: LAPD detective I met with that I was in the 27 00:02:03,766 --> 00:02:08,106 Speaker 2: midst of sensitive reporting on the Mitrice-Richardson case, which, I 28 00:02:08,146 --> 00:02:12,056 Speaker 2: reminded him, had started as an LAPD missing persons case. 29 00:02:12,896 --> 00:02:16,146 Speaker 2: The detective perked up at that. He agreed the package 30 00:02:16,196 --> 00:02:18,916 Speaker 2: was meaningful. He asked to keep one of the copies 31 00:02:18,956 --> 00:02:23,336 Speaker 2: of the book and my business card. And he told me, essentially, 32 00:02:23,856 --> 00:02:28,496 Speaker 2: to be on my guard. The whole episode made me 33 00:02:28,556 --> 00:02:39,006 Speaker 2: feel like we were getting closer to the truth. And 34 00:02:39,066 --> 00:02:41,006 Speaker 2: this is Lost Hills. 35 00:02:41,026 --> 00:02:47,426 Speaker 3: Episode 12. 36 00:03:08,456 --> 00:03:17,746 Speaker 2: Dig two graves. About six months before she disappeared, Mitrice 37 00:03:17,786 --> 00:03:19,246 Speaker 2: developed a new interest. 38 00:03:20,266 --> 00:03:25,446 Speaker 4: Right before Mitrice went missing, she wanted to buy a motorcycle. 39 00:03:26,386 --> 00:03:31,746 Speaker 2: This is Mitrice's dad, Michael, again. He says in July 2009, 40 00:03:31,746 --> 00:03:35,206 Speaker 2: Mitrice had a motorcycle driving test. He wanted to go 41 00:03:35,246 --> 00:03:37,386 Speaker 2: with her, but he had just started a new job. 42 00:03:38,646 --> 00:03:40,826 Speaker 4: And that was something that I regret to this day 43 00:03:40,866 --> 00:03:43,826 Speaker 4: because that would have been the last thing possibly that 44 00:03:43,846 --> 00:03:44,646 Speaker 4: we'd done together. 45 00:03:46,086 --> 00:03:49,056 Speaker 2: Haley and I are visiting Michael at home in his garage, 46 00:03:49,316 --> 00:03:51,256 Speaker 2: where he has a kind of shrine set up to 47 00:03:51,296 --> 00:03:54,576 Speaker 2: the memory of Mitrice and what happened to her. There 48 00:03:54,616 --> 00:03:58,656 Speaker 2: are collages of family photos and framed articles about her disappearance. 49 00:04:00,146 --> 00:04:03,126 Speaker 2: The garage is where he keeps his white 66 Chevy 50 00:04:03,166 --> 00:04:05,956 Speaker 2: with the portrait of Mitrice on the trunk. and where 51 00:04:05,996 --> 00:04:08,496 Speaker 2: he also keeps the front piece of the orange and 52 00:04:08,536 --> 00:04:12,226 Speaker 2: cream-colored Harley Davidson he bought in her honor after she died. 53 00:04:13,446 --> 00:04:15,706 Speaker 2: Just like the car, the Harley has a portrait of 54 00:04:15,746 --> 00:04:16,866 Speaker 2: Mitrice painted on it. 55 00:04:18,286 --> 00:04:21,366 Speaker 4: My friends teased me because they was like, this dude 56 00:04:21,836 --> 00:04:24,836 Speaker 4: never rode a minibike, never had a scooter, and when 57 00:04:24,856 --> 00:04:29,396 Speaker 4: he came, he came with a $ 50, 000 motorcycle, custom-built, ready 58 00:04:29,436 --> 00:04:30,716 Speaker 4: to ride and the whole thing. 59 00:04:31,536 --> 00:04:33,856 Speaker 2: But we're not here to see the motorcycle or the car. 60 00:04:35,036 --> 00:04:37,276 Speaker 2: We're here because Michael told us he has a bag 61 00:04:37,336 --> 00:04:40,876 Speaker 2: full of Mitrice's clothing. He found the clothing in her car. 62 00:04:41,456 --> 00:04:45,036 Speaker 2: It was there when she disappeared. It's been packed away 63 00:04:45,076 --> 00:04:49,566 Speaker 2: in the garage, untouched, for almost 15 years. He's never 64 00:04:49,686 --> 00:04:50,026 Speaker 2: opened it. 65 00:04:50,026 --> 00:04:55,626 Speaker 4: It's in a Ziploc bag, and something just told me 66 00:04:55,686 --> 00:04:57,066 Speaker 4: never get rid of it, and I couldn't do it 67 00:04:57,106 --> 00:05:03,096 Speaker 4: if I wanted to. I just always felt like someday, somehow, 68 00:05:03,116 --> 00:05:05,076 Speaker 4: we're going to need them. We're going to need them. 69 00:05:05,616 --> 00:05:08,996 Speaker 4: And so I kept them in a plastic Ziploc bag, 70 00:05:09,476 --> 00:05:14,316 Speaker 4: and we'll see. Yeah, so let me know when you're ready. 71 00:05:15,716 --> 00:05:18,216 Speaker 2: Michael heads for the back corner of the garage, where 72 00:05:18,256 --> 00:05:21,216 Speaker 2: he has some metal shelves. He pulls down one of 73 00:05:21,256 --> 00:05:23,776 Speaker 2: those clear plastic bags for storing pillows. 74 00:05:28,716 --> 00:05:34,176 Speaker 4: This, you know, we have this saying that, uh, This 75 00:05:34,256 --> 00:05:37,646 Speaker 4: girl wants the world to know who did this. 76 00:05:39,886 --> 00:05:43,546 Speaker 2: When we see the clothing through the bag, something unexpected happens. 77 00:05:52,486 --> 00:05:56,116 Speaker 5: Gosh, Michael, I am feeling emotional seeing this stuff. 78 00:05:56,336 --> 00:05:57,116 Speaker 6: I am too. 79 00:05:57,136 --> 00:05:57,816 Speaker 7: That's how you're. 80 00:05:57,716 --> 00:05:58,376 Speaker 8: Feeling right now. 81 00:05:59,546 --> 00:06:02,426 Speaker 2: There's just something about seeing this man hold his daughter's 82 00:06:02,486 --> 00:06:06,006 Speaker 2: belongings in his arms. It's what's left of her from 83 00:06:06,046 --> 00:06:08,766 Speaker 2: that night. What she had with her in her car 84 00:06:08,806 --> 00:06:12,316 Speaker 2: when she was arrested. It's who she was until the 85 00:06:12,356 --> 00:06:17,816 Speaker 2: moment her identity flattened out into victim. We're closer to 86 00:06:17,836 --> 00:06:21,846 Speaker 2: Mitrice than we've ever been. As close as we'll ever get. 87 00:06:23,286 --> 00:06:25,686 Speaker 2: We walk out to the driveway and Michael sits down 88 00:06:25,726 --> 00:06:29,406 Speaker 2: in a folding chair. We put on our N95s and 89 00:06:29,466 --> 00:06:32,586 Speaker 2: gloves and get to work. I unzip the bag and 90 00:06:32,626 --> 00:06:36,336 Speaker 2: start removing its contents. Some of the clothes and shoes 91 00:06:36,396 --> 00:06:40,216 Speaker 2: were clearly part of my Teresa's go-go dancing wardrobe. A glove, 92 00:06:40,476 --> 00:06:44,476 Speaker 2: a strip of purple sequined cloth, tall boots, strappy heels. 93 00:06:45,676 --> 00:06:48,306 Speaker 2: So this is like a patent leather. Do you think 94 00:06:48,326 --> 00:06:50,806 Speaker 2: she would wear this at Deborah's? 95 00:06:51,046 --> 00:06:51,926 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely. 96 00:06:53,426 --> 00:06:54,986 Speaker 2: I line everything up on the pavement. 97 00:06:56,406 --> 00:07:04,746 Speaker 5: One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine pairs 98 00:07:04,786 --> 00:07:08,186 Speaker 5: of shoes, which includes three pairs of boots, one of 99 00:07:08,226 --> 00:07:08,906 Speaker 5: which are Uggs. 100 00:07:09,746 --> 00:07:12,896 Speaker 2: And then there are, one of those is flip-flops, the 101 00:07:12,936 --> 00:07:13,736 Speaker 2: rest are high heels. 102 00:07:14,116 --> 00:07:17,156 Speaker 1: Nine pairs of pants. 103 00:07:17,376 --> 00:07:18,896 Speaker 4: That's that! 104 00:07:20,976 --> 00:07:25,006 Speaker 2: Deeper in the bag, we find Mitrice's makeup kit. Inside, 105 00:07:25,146 --> 00:07:28,526 Speaker 2: it's a tangle of chunky beads and brightly colored hoop earrings. 106 00:07:28,986 --> 00:07:31,566 Speaker 2: And buried in there in a tangled knot is the 107 00:07:31,626 --> 00:07:32,716 Speaker 2: thing we've been looking for. 108 00:07:32,736 --> 00:07:38,416 Speaker 8: That looks like it might be underwear or something that's 109 00:07:38,536 --> 00:07:39,436 Speaker 8: striped underneath. 110 00:07:39,876 --> 00:07:42,996 Speaker 9: See that little, right, right, the striped. 111 00:07:44,496 --> 00:07:45,736 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yes, you're right. 112 00:07:46,426 --> 00:07:49,326 Speaker 2: Good, that is underwear. Can I have a plastic bag? 113 00:07:50,666 --> 00:07:55,606 Speaker 2: It's size medium, purple and black stripes, mesh. very similar 114 00:07:55,666 --> 00:07:58,006 Speaker 2: to some of the items we found inside the suitcase 115 00:07:58,186 --> 00:08:01,346 Speaker 2: at Rick's fort. All of a sudden, it seems a 116 00:08:01,426 --> 00:08:04,046 Speaker 2: lot more likely that one of the pairs of fort 117 00:08:04,156 --> 00:08:08,836 Speaker 2: underwear could be Mitrice's. We bag up the thong along 118 00:08:08,876 --> 00:08:13,176 Speaker 2: with a purple hairbrush filled with Mitrice's hair. Michael says 119 00:08:13,436 --> 00:08:16,436 Speaker 2: we can have them tested for DNA. He's willing to 120 00:08:16,486 --> 00:08:17,686 Speaker 2: do anything at this point. 121 00:08:19,086 --> 00:08:21,446 Speaker 4: I can't get a case closed if I'm limited to 122 00:08:21,486 --> 00:08:25,756 Speaker 4: what I give you guys. I have to be open to, like, Here, 123 00:08:25,996 --> 00:08:27,996 Speaker 4: you're taking this serious, so I want you guys to 124 00:08:28,016 --> 00:08:28,386 Speaker 4: have it. 125 00:08:29,676 --> 00:08:32,836 Speaker 2: The handling of Mitrice's clothing from the remains site was 126 00:08:32,896 --> 00:08:37,126 Speaker 2: completely botched. Nothing was even tested till after her body 127 00:08:37,166 --> 00:08:41,066 Speaker 2: was exhumed a year after the discovery. We don't know 128 00:08:41,226 --> 00:08:43,726 Speaker 2: exactly what was done at that point, but nothing came 129 00:08:43,766 --> 00:08:48,086 Speaker 2: of it. We're hoping that through forensic evidence, we can 130 00:08:48,146 --> 00:08:52,526 Speaker 2: place Mitrice at Rick's fort. It's a long shot, but 131 00:08:52,606 --> 00:08:56,336 Speaker 2: finding that stuff at the fort was so improbable We 132 00:08:56,396 --> 00:09:02,716 Speaker 2: have to try. Angela Butler is a DNA analyst at 133 00:09:02,756 --> 00:09:05,076 Speaker 2: a private forensics lab in the Bay Area. 134 00:09:06,476 --> 00:09:09,426 Speaker 8: I typically take the most challenging cases in the lab. 135 00:09:10,986 --> 00:09:13,206 Speaker 8: Right now I'm doing a lot of cold cases. 136 00:09:14,086 --> 00:09:18,806 Speaker 2: Her lab works with cops, prosecutors, and innocence projects, handling 137 00:09:18,826 --> 00:09:22,966 Speaker 2: a lot of high-profile cases. The Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez, 138 00:09:23,576 --> 00:09:30,606 Speaker 2: Scott Peterson, Kristen Smart. And now, Mitrice Richardson. With Michael's permission, 139 00:09:30,706 --> 00:09:34,436 Speaker 2: we sent Mitrice's hairbrush to Butler. We also sent the 140 00:09:34,496 --> 00:09:37,656 Speaker 2: two size medium black thongs we found at Rick's fort. 141 00:09:38,276 --> 00:09:41,716 Speaker 2: If she could get Mitrice's DNA from the hairbrush and 142 00:09:41,816 --> 00:09:45,016 Speaker 2: DNA from the fort underwear, she'd be able to compare 143 00:09:45,056 --> 00:09:49,476 Speaker 2: the profiles. There could be a match. She started with 144 00:09:49,496 --> 00:09:50,036 Speaker 2: the hairbrush. 145 00:09:51,736 --> 00:09:54,686 Speaker 8: So I took a few swabs. And I really got 146 00:09:54,706 --> 00:09:58,066 Speaker 8: into the base of those bristles and there was plenty 147 00:09:58,086 --> 00:10:03,806 Speaker 8: of material that was visible on the swabs. And I thought, great, 148 00:10:04,526 --> 00:10:09,556 Speaker 8: this will be enough to get me something. 149 00:10:10,836 --> 00:10:14,296 Speaker 2: But when Butler analyzed it, the material was very degraded, 150 00:10:14,696 --> 00:10:16,416 Speaker 2: and there was almost no DNA. 151 00:10:17,356 --> 00:10:19,876 Speaker 8: I would have wanted to see at least 10 times 152 00:10:19,946 --> 00:10:26,726 Speaker 8: as much DNA to get at least a partial profile. 153 00:10:28,896 --> 00:10:33,856 Speaker 8: And the quality was very poor. 154 00:10:35,536 --> 00:10:39,216 Speaker 2: That was disappointing. But we could potentially build out Mitrice's 155 00:10:39,296 --> 00:10:42,616 Speaker 2: DNA profile a different way, particularly if her dad was 156 00:10:42,656 --> 00:10:46,336 Speaker 2: willing to help. So Butler moved on to see what, 157 00:10:46,716 --> 00:10:50,366 Speaker 2: if anything, she could get from the Fort underwear. We'd 158 00:10:50,376 --> 00:10:53,506 Speaker 2: warned her it was muddy, moldy, and damp, and as 159 00:10:53,546 --> 00:10:56,026 Speaker 2: far as we knew, had been outside for more than 160 00:10:56,066 --> 00:11:00,126 Speaker 2: a decade. She started with the pair that was most 161 00:11:00,186 --> 00:11:02,586 Speaker 2: similar to the pair that Mitrice had in her car, 162 00:11:03,226 --> 00:11:06,666 Speaker 2: the black thong, size medium, with the Rampage label. 163 00:11:07,856 --> 00:11:12,176 Speaker 8: Well, those, when those came out of the bag, those 164 00:11:12,196 --> 00:11:17,636 Speaker 8: were still wet. I know that bacterial degradation is probably 165 00:11:17,876 --> 00:11:22,156 Speaker 8: actively happening. So right out of the gate, I thought, 166 00:11:22,396 --> 00:11:25,116 Speaker 8: oh boy, this isn't good. 167 00:11:26,096 --> 00:11:29,626 Speaker 2: She sampled the crotch area, extracted the DNA, and found 168 00:11:29,786 --> 00:11:31,126 Speaker 2: only a tiny amount. 169 00:11:31,886 --> 00:11:34,606 Speaker 8: Such a trace amount, it was the equivalent of a 170 00:11:35,706 --> 00:11:37,446 Speaker 8: cell's worth of DNA. 171 00:11:38,486 --> 00:11:42,436 Speaker 2: There was nowhere near enough DNA to identify an individual. 172 00:11:43,236 --> 00:11:47,016 Speaker 2: We'd struck out. We didn't have the resources to test 173 00:11:47,076 --> 00:11:50,376 Speaker 2: the rest of the fort underwear, but Butler encouraged us 174 00:11:50,556 --> 00:11:53,726 Speaker 2: not to throw away what we'd found. so I called 175 00:11:53,766 --> 00:11:57,306 Speaker 2: the cold case desk at the Sheriff's Department Homicide Bureau again. 176 00:11:57,806 --> 00:12:02,006 Speaker 2: They could test it all, if they wanted to. The 177 00:12:02,046 --> 00:12:04,896 Speaker 2: last time I spoke to Lieutenant Michael Modica, who's in 178 00:12:04,936 --> 00:12:07,636 Speaker 2: charge of the cold case unit, he wasn't interested in 179 00:12:07,696 --> 00:12:10,836 Speaker 2: hearing about any of our discoveries. But he did say 180 00:12:10,876 --> 00:12:12,756 Speaker 2: to get in touch if we had any luck with 181 00:12:12,776 --> 00:12:16,176 Speaker 2: the forensics. I feel like I owe him an answer, 182 00:12:16,196 --> 00:12:19,436 Speaker 2: and I'm hoping to convince him to take the stash 183 00:12:19,456 --> 00:12:22,506 Speaker 2: of underwear from Rick's fort and do something with it. 184 00:12:23,476 --> 00:12:25,156 Speaker 8: Lieutenant Michael Modica. 185 00:12:26,476 --> 00:12:27,336 Speaker 10: Is not available. 186 00:12:27,696 --> 00:12:29,156 Speaker 2: Record your message at the tone. 187 00:12:29,176 --> 00:12:34,536 Speaker 6: Hi, Lieutenant Modica. This is Dana Goodyear from the Lost 188 00:12:34,556 --> 00:12:38,636 Speaker 6: Health Podcast. I left word for you on Monday regarding 189 00:12:38,726 --> 00:12:42,166 Speaker 6: the Matrice Richardson case and some materials that I had 190 00:12:42,206 --> 00:12:44,046 Speaker 6: mentioned to you. We've come to the end of the 191 00:12:44,086 --> 00:12:48,166 Speaker 6: road with what we can do, and I'm just wondering 192 00:12:48,266 --> 00:12:51,876 Speaker 6: if you might have any interest. I think that... Potentially, 193 00:12:51,896 --> 00:12:53,896 Speaker 6: law enforcement would be able to take this further than 194 00:12:53,956 --> 00:12:54,756 Speaker 6: we could using. 195 00:12:54,616 --> 00:12:58,096 Speaker 2: A private lab. I'm still waiting for him to call 196 00:12:58,136 --> 00:13:03,266 Speaker 2: me back. But in the meantime, we get a big surprise. 197 00:13:04,186 --> 00:13:09,926 Speaker 2: Mark Wallace, Rick's firefighter friend, calls me. Rick stayed at 198 00:13:09,966 --> 00:13:13,636 Speaker 2: Mark's place on and off between 2009, when Rick got 199 00:13:13,676 --> 00:13:17,736 Speaker 2: out of prison, and 2012, when he was investigated again 200 00:13:17,856 --> 00:13:21,576 Speaker 2: by the Sheriff's Department homicide detectives in the disappearance and 201 00:13:21,616 --> 00:13:25,986 Speaker 2: death of Mitrice Richardson. Mark's supposed to be the guy 202 00:13:26,046 --> 00:13:30,706 Speaker 2: who knows what happened. And now, Mark wants to talk. 203 00:13:47,986 --> 00:13:51,626 Speaker 2: Mark Wallace dodged us for almost a year. It wasn't 204 00:13:51,686 --> 00:13:55,386 Speaker 2: until we sent him a formal right-of-reply letter telling him 205 00:13:55,446 --> 00:13:58,426 Speaker 2: what we were planning to report about Rick Forsberg and 206 00:13:58,446 --> 00:14:02,046 Speaker 2: the goings-on at the Wallypad that he relented and said 207 00:14:02,076 --> 00:14:05,496 Speaker 2: we could come over. But we're just talking for now. 208 00:14:06,096 --> 00:14:08,656 Speaker 2: He doesn't want us to record, in case we might 209 00:14:08,676 --> 00:14:12,256 Speaker 2: be cops. The first thing that happens when we get 210 00:14:12,296 --> 00:14:14,956 Speaker 2: to the Wallypad is Mark has us move our cars. 211 00:14:15,956 --> 00:14:19,766 Speaker 2: We've parked them at an intersection near his house. That's 212 00:14:19,826 --> 00:14:22,266 Speaker 2: the place, he tells us, that the cops set up 213 00:14:22,346 --> 00:14:25,906 Speaker 2: surveillance cameras back when Rick was crashing in his basement. 214 00:14:26,706 --> 00:14:29,746 Speaker 2: The homicide detectives had shown him a big portfolio of 215 00:14:29,856 --> 00:14:33,076 Speaker 2: photos of Rick and some of their other derelict friends 216 00:14:33,376 --> 00:14:37,476 Speaker 2: doing speedballs in their car right there. Is it any 217 00:14:37,536 --> 00:14:42,586 Speaker 2: wonder Mark's a little paranoid? Mark's in his 60s, boyish 218 00:14:42,756 --> 00:14:46,046 Speaker 2: and wiry with a jumpy energy. He retired as a 219 00:14:46,086 --> 00:14:50,446 Speaker 2: fire captain in January. His mother, who has dementia, lives 220 00:14:50,526 --> 00:14:55,906 Speaker 2: next door. Lisa Goldman, Mark's wife, says she used to 221 00:14:55,926 --> 00:14:59,626 Speaker 2: get the chills when Rick came around. Spooky is the 222 00:14:59,666 --> 00:15:04,696 Speaker 2: word she uses. Psycho is what Mark says. Afraid of 223 00:15:04,786 --> 00:15:08,156 Speaker 2: no one. Drunk and high every single day of his life. 224 00:15:10,236 --> 00:15:12,916 Speaker 2: They show us the little basement room where Rick would stay. 225 00:15:13,556 --> 00:15:17,286 Speaker 2: Back then, it had a dirt floor. Mark says that's 226 00:15:17,326 --> 00:15:20,766 Speaker 2: where Raven made her video interview and where Rick choked 227 00:15:20,886 --> 00:15:26,146 Speaker 2: Lisa Lepore and, he says, almost broke her neck. Mark 228 00:15:26,186 --> 00:15:29,416 Speaker 2: tells us the footprints found outside his house are a 229 00:15:29,476 --> 00:15:33,196 Speaker 2: red herring. The first indication he had that Rick was 230 00:15:33,236 --> 00:15:36,456 Speaker 2: connected to Mitrice's death was when her body was discovered 231 00:15:36,636 --> 00:15:40,376 Speaker 2: in Dark Canyon. The rangers said they were checking on 232 00:15:40,416 --> 00:15:46,076 Speaker 2: a previously disrupted marijuana operation, presumably something large-scale. But Mark 233 00:15:46,116 --> 00:15:49,616 Speaker 2: says when he saw the helicopter hovering over Dark Canyon, 234 00:15:50,116 --> 00:15:54,196 Speaker 2: his first thought was, oh fuck, they're raiding Rick's patch. 235 00:15:56,316 --> 00:15:58,956 Speaker 2: Rick had been growing weed in Dark Canyon since they 236 00:15:58,976 --> 00:16:02,516 Speaker 2: were boys. No one dared go in there. Rick had 237 00:16:02,536 --> 00:16:06,616 Speaker 2: the place booby-trapped. So when a woman's body turned up there, 238 00:16:07,436 --> 00:16:15,116 Speaker 2: Mark immediately suspected Rick. Mark says Rick was a total charmer. 239 00:16:16,066 --> 00:16:19,476 Speaker 2: the guy who always had the prettiest girlfriend, and, he says, 240 00:16:19,796 --> 00:16:24,156 Speaker 2: could talk the pants off any chick. Hey, darling. That's 241 00:16:24,176 --> 00:16:27,216 Speaker 2: what he'd say. But then he'd lose his temper over 242 00:16:27,296 --> 00:16:33,086 Speaker 2: nothing and choke them out. Psycho. So Mark always had 243 00:16:33,126 --> 00:16:36,746 Speaker 2: his suspicions. But, he tells us, it's not like he 244 00:16:36,786 --> 00:16:43,516 Speaker 2: has some smoking gun. Some big confession from Rick. Mark says, quote, 245 00:16:44,066 --> 00:16:52,166 Speaker 2: The Mitrice-Richardson case has everything, except proof. It's true. The 246 00:16:52,206 --> 00:16:56,106 Speaker 2: case against Rick Forsberg is purely circumstantial at this point. 247 00:16:57,046 --> 00:17:01,736 Speaker 2: But enough circumstantial evidence can close a case. So here 248 00:17:01,796 --> 00:17:05,736 Speaker 2: is what we know and what we don't. We know 249 00:17:05,856 --> 00:17:09,596 Speaker 2: Rick got out of prison in July 2009 and returned 250 00:17:09,636 --> 00:17:14,246 Speaker 2: to Montanito, two months before Mitrice turned up there. We 251 00:17:14,306 --> 00:17:18,266 Speaker 2: don't know how Mitrice got from Lost Hill Station to Montanito. 252 00:17:19,026 --> 00:17:22,026 Speaker 2: The timing is such that she could have walked, though 253 00:17:22,046 --> 00:17:26,036 Speaker 2: her mother thought that was unlikely. We know Rick had 254 00:17:26,116 --> 00:17:29,476 Speaker 2: access to a motorcycle, and he said he picked Mitrice up. 255 00:17:30,296 --> 00:17:34,016 Speaker 2: We don't know where or when. The motorcycle could help 256 00:17:34,096 --> 00:17:40,386 Speaker 2: explain Mitrice's disappearing scent and non-continuous footprints. We know Mitrice 257 00:17:40,566 --> 00:17:44,366 Speaker 2: loitered outside Mark Wallace's house around the time of her disappearance. 258 00:17:45,286 --> 00:17:47,766 Speaker 2: We don't know if Rick was at Mark's at the time, 259 00:17:48,106 --> 00:17:51,296 Speaker 2: and we have no evidence that Mitrice went onto Mark's property. 260 00:17:52,636 --> 00:17:54,956 Speaker 2: We know Rick knew how to get into Dark Canyon, 261 00:17:55,376 --> 00:18:00,296 Speaker 2: where Mitrice's remains were found. We know Mitrice liked motorcycles 262 00:18:00,596 --> 00:18:03,426 Speaker 2: and smoking pot, and that she was in an altered 263 00:18:03,546 --> 00:18:07,126 Speaker 2: state where her normal decision-making processes may have been suspended. 264 00:18:08,226 --> 00:18:11,806 Speaker 2: Not to mention, she was probably growing desperate. She may 265 00:18:11,826 --> 00:18:16,716 Speaker 2: have been hungry, thirsty, and looking for help. Hey, darling. 266 00:18:18,306 --> 00:18:21,596 Speaker 2: We don't know if Mitrice went willingly into Dark Canyon. 267 00:18:22,536 --> 00:18:26,156 Speaker 2: We don't know why her remains were partially mummified. Was 268 00:18:26,216 --> 00:18:29,636 Speaker 2: that due to the fluctuating temperatures and soil conditions in 269 00:18:29,696 --> 00:18:33,016 Speaker 2: Dark Canyon? Or does it indicate her remains were kept 270 00:18:33,116 --> 00:18:38,636 Speaker 2: somewhere else, then moved? We know Mitrice's death was suspicious. 271 00:18:39,436 --> 00:18:43,916 Speaker 2: A young woman, naked, in a canyon, half her clothes missing, 272 00:18:44,216 --> 00:18:47,156 Speaker 2: the rest of them scattered, her belt out of her 273 00:18:47,196 --> 00:18:56,186 Speaker 2: belt loops. We don't know how Mitrice died. Her death 274 00:18:56,286 --> 00:18:59,626 Speaker 2: could have been an accident. What if she was hanging 275 00:18:59,706 --> 00:19:06,286 Speaker 2: out with Rick Forsberg and fell or overdosed? The autopsy, unfortunately, 276 00:19:06,486 --> 00:19:11,236 Speaker 2: was inconclusive. There wasn't enough soft tissue left. We do 277 00:19:11,276 --> 00:19:14,876 Speaker 2: know it's highly improbable that Mitrice died from gunshot or 278 00:19:14,936 --> 00:19:18,796 Speaker 2: knife wound or blunt force trauma. No indications of trauma 279 00:19:18,836 --> 00:19:23,286 Speaker 2: were observed. And the comment Lisa Lepore repeated about Rick 280 00:19:23,666 --> 00:19:26,766 Speaker 2: cutting her up, if such a remark was made, it 281 00:19:26,806 --> 00:19:30,606 Speaker 2: was probably not literal. There was nothing on Mitrice's bones 282 00:19:30,666 --> 00:19:34,776 Speaker 2: to indicate dismemberment. though according to the forensic pathologist who 283 00:19:34,816 --> 00:19:38,816 Speaker 2: conducted the autopsy, her throat could have been cut. Without 284 00:19:38,876 --> 00:19:43,146 Speaker 2: soft tissue, there would be no way to know. Was 285 00:19:43,206 --> 00:19:48,686 Speaker 2: Mitrice strangled? If investigators had found her hyoid bone and 286 00:19:48,726 --> 00:19:52,066 Speaker 2: it had been broken, that could have been definitive, but 287 00:19:52,086 --> 00:19:55,606 Speaker 2: it was never found. So we don't know if Matrice 288 00:19:55,626 --> 00:20:00,486 Speaker 2: was strangled. We do know Rick said he picked her up. 289 00:20:01,586 --> 00:20:05,316 Speaker 2: We do know Rick had a history of violence against women. 290 00:20:06,656 --> 00:20:09,976 Speaker 2: We do know he had a history of strangling women. 291 00:20:11,856 --> 00:20:14,596 Speaker 7: We know when it comes to strangulation, strangulation is a 292 00:20:14,616 --> 00:20:15,336 Speaker 7: gender crime. 293 00:20:16,116 --> 00:20:19,516 Speaker 2: Gail Strack is a former prosecutor and an expert on 294 00:20:19,576 --> 00:20:25,116 Speaker 2: strangulation in cases of domestic violence. She says strangulation is 295 00:20:25,196 --> 00:20:26,796 Speaker 2: typically a prelude to murder. 296 00:20:27,636 --> 00:20:31,016 Speaker 7: If you look at the continuum of violence, strangulation is 297 00:20:31,116 --> 00:20:34,256 Speaker 7: at the end of just before a homicide. 298 00:20:35,036 --> 00:20:37,886 Speaker 2: The act of strangling and the act of strangling to 299 00:20:37,926 --> 00:20:39,786 Speaker 2: death are essentially the same. 300 00:20:40,606 --> 00:20:43,306 Speaker 7: And when somebody is willing to put their hands around 301 00:20:43,326 --> 00:20:46,606 Speaker 7: someone's neck, and especially take them to the point where 302 00:20:46,626 --> 00:20:50,126 Speaker 7: they pass out, they think they're going to die. It 303 00:20:50,466 --> 00:20:53,586 Speaker 7: is a calling card of a killer. It is a 304 00:20:53,626 --> 00:20:57,026 Speaker 7: killer raising his hand and saying, I am willing and 305 00:20:57,126 --> 00:20:58,686 Speaker 7: capable of killing someone. 306 00:21:00,006 --> 00:21:03,216 Speaker 2: Strangulation is one of the easiest forms of homicide to 307 00:21:03,246 --> 00:21:04,996 Speaker 2: commit and to cover up. 308 00:21:05,756 --> 00:21:09,476 Speaker 10: It only takes 11 pounds of pressure, and that is 309 00:21:09,616 --> 00:21:10,436 Speaker 10: really nothing. 310 00:21:11,196 --> 00:21:11,496 Speaker 6: Dr. 311 00:21:11,536 --> 00:21:14,696 Speaker 2: Bill Smock. a sworn police officer and an expert in 312 00:21:14,736 --> 00:21:19,096 Speaker 2: forensic medicine, says strangulation can pose a challenge to law enforcement. 313 00:21:19,836 --> 00:21:22,846 Speaker 2: It's a crime that can leave no marks, and it 314 00:21:22,906 --> 00:21:25,106 Speaker 2: requires surprisingly little strength. 315 00:21:26,206 --> 00:21:29,806 Speaker 10: If you think an adult male handshake generates 100 pounds 316 00:21:29,876 --> 00:21:33,816 Speaker 10: of pressure, one-tenth of that is all that's required to 317 00:21:33,836 --> 00:21:37,116 Speaker 10: occlude blood flow to the brain via the carotid arteries. 318 00:21:37,826 --> 00:21:38,186 Speaker 6: Dr. 319 00:21:38,206 --> 00:21:40,986 Speaker 2: Smock was one of the key experts to testify in 320 00:21:41,006 --> 00:21:45,006 Speaker 2: the prosecution of Derek Chauvin, the police officer found guilty 321 00:21:45,066 --> 00:21:46,366 Speaker 2: of killing George Floyd. 322 00:21:47,126 --> 00:21:50,876 Speaker 10: If you apply a bicep and forearm to the human neck, 323 00:21:51,496 --> 00:21:54,896 Speaker 10: you have a large surface area where that pressure is applied. Again, 324 00:21:55,516 --> 00:21:58,876 Speaker 10: it can be applied in such a manner, even with 325 00:21:58,956 --> 00:22:01,636 Speaker 10: more than 11 pounds of pressure, and you will never 326 00:22:01,796 --> 00:22:02,676 Speaker 10: leave a mark. 327 00:22:03,436 --> 00:22:06,696 Speaker 2: We talk about the specifics of Mitrice's case. and what 328 00:22:06,756 --> 00:22:10,756 Speaker 2: seems to me the glaringly inadequate explanation law enforcement gave 329 00:22:10,816 --> 00:22:14,636 Speaker 2: about her death. Their view that, being mentally ill, she 330 00:22:14,676 --> 00:22:16,276 Speaker 2: probably just chose to die. 331 00:22:16,296 --> 00:22:22,506 Speaker 10: And that's totally BS. We call those a diagnosis of exclusion. 332 00:22:23,166 --> 00:22:27,246 Speaker 10: Once you've ruled out everything else, but clearly a woman 333 00:22:27,286 --> 00:22:31,786 Speaker 10: who is found dead and naked is high on the 334 00:22:31,826 --> 00:22:33,166 Speaker 10: suspicious list. 335 00:22:33,906 --> 00:22:38,666 Speaker 2: The circumstances of Mitrice's death, Dr. Smock says, suggest a homicide. 336 00:22:39,226 --> 00:22:44,176 Speaker 10: You have to assume that it's a homicide until proven otherwise. Plus, 337 00:22:44,376 --> 00:22:47,976 Speaker 10: you have her clothes are away from the body. The 338 00:22:48,036 --> 00:22:51,856 Speaker 10: belt is out. Was the belt used as a weapon? 339 00:22:52,146 --> 00:22:55,506 Speaker 10: Whose DNA is on that belt? Why is it out 340 00:22:55,546 --> 00:22:58,786 Speaker 10: of the pants? Things that you have to explain. You 341 00:22:58,846 --> 00:23:01,886 Speaker 10: can't just say, oh, she died. took her clothes off, 342 00:23:02,186 --> 00:23:04,046 Speaker 10: and went over there and laid down to die. No, 343 00:23:04,066 --> 00:23:08,086 Speaker 10: 24-year-olds can't lie down and will yourself to die. 344 00:23:15,226 --> 00:23:20,216 Speaker 1: And so it's just kind of weird for me to 345 00:23:20,236 --> 00:23:25,376 Speaker 1: be saying. 346 00:23:22,856 --> 00:23:23,116 Speaker 3: It, but. 347 00:23:24,096 --> 00:23:27,596 Speaker 2: Finally, Mark Wallace is ready for us to hit record. 348 00:23:28,496 --> 00:23:30,656 Speaker 1: All right, well, are you recording now or something? 349 00:23:30,696 --> 00:23:30,976 Speaker 4: Yes, you are. 350 00:23:30,996 --> 00:23:31,596 Speaker 1: I see. 351 00:23:32,896 --> 00:23:35,156 Speaker 2: For more than two hours, Haley and I have been 352 00:23:35,216 --> 00:23:38,756 Speaker 2: sitting by his pool. It's a beautiful spot, looking out 353 00:23:38,916 --> 00:23:42,096 Speaker 2: over the Santa Monica Mountains and the backside of Dark Canyon. 354 00:23:43,176 --> 00:23:46,036 Speaker 2: Mark thinks of his pool as a swimming hole and 355 00:23:46,056 --> 00:23:49,256 Speaker 2: the big boulder, which Rick placed for him, as a 356 00:23:49,316 --> 00:23:52,536 Speaker 2: diving rock, like the spots they found in the canyon 357 00:23:52,576 --> 00:23:57,356 Speaker 2: creeks when they were boys. Mark's got deep loyalty to Rick. 358 00:23:57,856 --> 00:24:00,916 Speaker 2: and to the way they were raised in Montanito. He's 359 00:24:00,976 --> 00:24:03,716 Speaker 2: not sure what he might be risking by talking to us. 360 00:24:05,016 --> 00:24:08,746 Speaker 1: So the cops could listen to me and decide they 361 00:24:08,786 --> 00:24:13,906 Speaker 1: want to fuck with me. My friends could listen to 362 00:24:13,946 --> 00:24:21,766 Speaker 1: me and think I'm a rat or something else, you know. 363 00:24:24,916 --> 00:24:27,556 Speaker 2: But he also has a little more information about Rick 364 00:24:28,406 --> 00:24:31,456 Speaker 2: And in spite of his reluctance, he's going to share it. 365 00:24:32,866 --> 00:24:33,046 Speaker 3: All right. 366 00:24:33,066 --> 00:24:33,986 Speaker 1: So what do you want? 367 00:24:36,666 --> 00:24:38,906 Speaker 2: I want to hear the story of what happened when 368 00:24:38,946 --> 00:24:43,486 Speaker 2: the sheriff's homicide detectives interviewed Mark about Rick back in 369 00:24:43,486 --> 00:24:47,626 Speaker 2: 2012 when Rick was crashing in his basement. They spoke 370 00:24:47,666 --> 00:24:50,766 Speaker 2: to him for five hours in a conference room at 371 00:24:50,786 --> 00:24:54,036 Speaker 2: his firehouse. And at the end, they asked him for 372 00:24:54,076 --> 00:24:56,716 Speaker 2: his help because they knew Rick was violent. 373 00:24:58,216 --> 00:25:00,096 Speaker 1: They told me they wanted to take Rick in for 374 00:25:00,156 --> 00:25:05,456 Speaker 1: questioning and that last time he was taken in, he 375 00:25:05,496 --> 00:25:08,696 Speaker 1: fought the cops and he broke one's arm or leg 376 00:25:08,736 --> 00:25:10,636 Speaker 1: or something and then he also bit a hole in 377 00:25:10,696 --> 00:25:15,516 Speaker 1: another one's chest, fighting him. And then, so they didn't 378 00:25:15,536 --> 00:25:17,726 Speaker 1: want to have that happen again. So they wanted me 379 00:25:17,766 --> 00:25:23,166 Speaker 1: to smooth the way for Rick to be interviewed and 380 00:25:23,266 --> 00:25:25,226 Speaker 1: to get a lie detector test. 381 00:25:26,136 --> 00:25:28,896 Speaker 2: Mark went home and told Rick that the homicide detectives 382 00:25:28,996 --> 00:25:31,896 Speaker 2: wanted to talk to him about the disappearance and possible 383 00:25:31,936 --> 00:25:36,736 Speaker 2: murder of Mitrice Richardson. Mark says Rick gasped. 384 00:25:37,676 --> 00:25:40,256 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was like, oh my God, like the cops, what? 385 00:25:40,496 --> 00:25:44,366 Speaker 1: The cops are fucking got me down as the, as 386 00:25:44,426 --> 00:25:47,756 Speaker 1: a suspect. They want to talk to me about it, 387 00:25:47,826 --> 00:25:50,526 Speaker 1: you know, and I mean, he didn't, it just, he just, 388 00:25:51,146 --> 00:25:52,826 Speaker 1: Rick has a way of like, just kind of like 389 00:25:52,866 --> 00:25:55,806 Speaker 1: looking through you and sometimes, and He kind of, like, 390 00:25:56,006 --> 00:25:58,226 Speaker 1: got the information from me, and then he was off 391 00:25:58,266 --> 00:26:00,906 Speaker 1: in his own mind, like, trying to figure out what 392 00:26:00,946 --> 00:26:06,576 Speaker 1: he's going to do about it. He freaked out and 393 00:26:06,696 --> 00:26:10,236 Speaker 1: started grabbing for his phone, like, I got to call 394 00:26:10,256 --> 00:26:11,156 Speaker 1: Steve right now. 395 00:26:12,096 --> 00:26:16,556 Speaker 2: Rick called Steve Gilbert, another Montanito boy who has since died, 396 00:26:17,296 --> 00:26:18,276 Speaker 2: but he didn't reach him. 397 00:26:19,436 --> 00:26:21,296 Speaker 1: He left Steve a message right in front of me 398 00:26:21,316 --> 00:26:26,696 Speaker 1: and said, Steve, the cops think I murdered somebody. And 399 00:26:27,336 --> 00:26:29,676 Speaker 1: then he said, I got stuff I got to get 400 00:26:29,776 --> 00:26:35,176 Speaker 1: out of my place. I don't know what it was. 401 00:26:36,176 --> 00:26:39,736 Speaker 2: Mark was disturbed by Rick's reaction and alarmed by his 402 00:26:39,816 --> 00:26:43,636 Speaker 2: reference to removing apparently incriminating evidence from his fort. 403 00:26:44,536 --> 00:26:50,706 Speaker 1: And he was freaked out. And I said, wait, what 404 00:26:51,186 --> 00:26:53,486 Speaker 1: are you talking about? You got to get stuff. And 405 00:26:53,526 --> 00:26:56,386 Speaker 1: then I said, do you know something about this? 406 00:26:57,626 --> 00:27:01,546 Speaker 2: Then, Mark says, Rick told him a story he'd never 407 00:27:01,646 --> 00:27:05,146 Speaker 2: told him before, that he'd seen my trees on the 408 00:27:05,186 --> 00:27:08,286 Speaker 2: morning of her disappearance, two and a half years earlier. 409 00:27:08,306 --> 00:27:11,716 Speaker 1: And then he proceeded to tell me that he had 410 00:27:11,776 --> 00:27:17,016 Speaker 1: been walking down the hill from his place up on Paiuma, 411 00:27:17,036 --> 00:27:22,336 Speaker 1: and he heard an argument, and he heard some female 412 00:27:22,396 --> 00:27:25,656 Speaker 1: voice yell, fuck y'all. And so he's like, well, there's 413 00:27:25,856 --> 00:27:26,996 Speaker 1: black people in Montanito. 414 00:27:28,136 --> 00:27:31,576 Speaker 2: Mark says Rick told him Mitrice was arguing with the 415 00:27:31,696 --> 00:27:32,956 Speaker 2: owner of the tennis courthouse. 416 00:27:34,296 --> 00:27:37,296 Speaker 1: And he was basically running her out of his property, 417 00:27:37,376 --> 00:27:41,096 Speaker 1: telling her, get off my property. And she was pissed 418 00:27:41,216 --> 00:27:45,096 Speaker 1: off or whatever and started walking up Paiuma. I said, well, 419 00:27:45,176 --> 00:27:47,686 Speaker 1: what did you do when she came walking up the road? 420 00:27:47,736 --> 00:27:50,266 Speaker 1: And he said, oh, I just faded back into the bushes. 421 00:27:50,826 --> 00:27:55,306 Speaker 1: So he basically, in that conversation there, told me that 422 00:27:55,326 --> 00:27:57,826 Speaker 1: he was the last person that saw Mitrice Richards alive. 423 00:28:00,066 --> 00:28:02,326 Speaker 1: Because I don't know of anybody else that saw her 424 00:28:02,566 --> 00:28:04,946 Speaker 1: after she walked out of the Smiths' property. 425 00:28:06,666 --> 00:28:12,046 Speaker 2: Mark believes Rick's story incriminates him. Rick told Mark he 426 00:28:12,106 --> 00:28:15,946 Speaker 2: watched Mitrice leave the tennis courthouse and walk up Paiuma Road. 427 00:28:16,966 --> 00:28:20,436 Speaker 2: Rick told Jill he picked Mitrice up on his motorcycle. 428 00:28:21,746 --> 00:28:25,946 Speaker 2: Rick's stories are inconsistent. but in both of them, Rick 429 00:28:26,026 --> 00:28:31,636 Speaker 2: makes himself the last person to see Mitrice alive. Mark 430 00:28:31,676 --> 00:28:36,636 Speaker 2: says his suspicions of Rick are rooted in three facts. One, 431 00:28:37,276 --> 00:28:43,766 Speaker 2: Mitrice's remains are found in Dark Canyon, Rick's longtime grow spot. Two, 432 00:28:44,586 --> 00:28:48,506 Speaker 2: Rick's the last person to see her alive. And three, 433 00:28:49,536 --> 00:28:53,166 Speaker 2: When Rick finds out that homicide detectives suspect him in 434 00:28:53,206 --> 00:28:58,086 Speaker 2: Mitrice's disappearance and death, he urgently needs to remove something 435 00:28:58,346 --> 00:28:59,046 Speaker 2: from his fort. 436 00:28:59,966 --> 00:29:04,586 Speaker 1: Just the way that he took the information and started, 437 00:29:05,046 --> 00:29:06,986 Speaker 1: you know, saying he had to get rid of something 438 00:29:07,066 --> 00:29:11,166 Speaker 1: out of his camp freaked me out. Like what? Like 439 00:29:11,286 --> 00:29:14,686 Speaker 1: some bones or something or some, her underwear or something? 440 00:29:14,746 --> 00:29:19,706 Speaker 1: I don't know. And then, uh, He was, you know, like, 441 00:29:19,776 --> 00:29:21,506 Speaker 1: I got to go clean up a bunch of stuff 442 00:29:21,566 --> 00:29:25,426 Speaker 1: and get ready for tomorrow. And then he did. 443 00:29:26,126 --> 00:29:30,926 Speaker 2: Mark says Rick dressed carefully for his polygraph. Rick cleaned 444 00:29:31,006 --> 00:29:34,606 Speaker 2: up well, and he never lost his golden boy confidence. 445 00:29:35,786 --> 00:29:37,566 Speaker 1: When he left to go to his interview, he was 446 00:29:37,606 --> 00:29:41,336 Speaker 1: dressed in a white shirt and fancy clothes and looked 447 00:29:41,356 --> 00:29:44,056 Speaker 1: like he was going off to a party on a 448 00:29:44,136 --> 00:29:51,256 Speaker 1: yacht or something. And, um, I don't remember what happened 449 00:29:51,276 --> 00:29:54,216 Speaker 1: when he came home. He just told me, yeah, I 450 00:29:54,256 --> 00:29:59,466 Speaker 1: passed the lie detector test. And I don't know what 451 00:29:59,506 --> 00:30:00,086 Speaker 1: else to say. 452 00:30:01,426 --> 00:30:04,546 Speaker 2: Mark told us Rick had a lifelong strategy for getting 453 00:30:04,586 --> 00:30:07,926 Speaker 2: out of trouble. One he taught all the Montanito boys. 454 00:30:08,756 --> 00:30:13,396 Speaker 1: He just told us, like, you don't ever admit guilt. 455 00:30:14,236 --> 00:30:17,316 Speaker 1: No matter what you do, just stick to your story, 456 00:30:18,776 --> 00:30:23,926 Speaker 1: even if you're guilty. And there's always going to be 457 00:30:24,086 --> 00:30:28,586 Speaker 1: one juror that'll believe you. He said, just never admit 458 00:30:28,606 --> 00:30:34,926 Speaker 1: to anything. And I don't know. I guess it worked 459 00:30:35,046 --> 00:30:46,346 Speaker 1: out for him. because he didn't get prosecuted. They basically 460 00:30:46,426 --> 00:30:47,236 Speaker 1: just let him go. 461 00:30:47,246 --> 00:30:55,676 Speaker 2: But the people closest to Mitrice believe there's more than 462 00:30:55,856 --> 00:31:12,596 Speaker 2: one form of justice. I'm glad that it's a beautiful 463 00:31:12,636 --> 00:31:16,626 Speaker 2: day for my Teresa's birthday. I'm a long way from Malibu. 464 00:31:17,346 --> 00:31:20,466 Speaker 2: It's 9 a.m. and the flower district in downtown L.A. 465 00:31:20,606 --> 00:31:23,986 Speaker 2: is bustling. There are buckets of flowers and vendors on 466 00:31:24,126 --> 00:31:27,406 Speaker 2: every street corner. Haley and I are here to meet 467 00:31:27,566 --> 00:31:30,546 Speaker 2: Jewel Moore, one of my Teresa's closest friends. 468 00:31:31,446 --> 00:31:33,606 Speaker 3: I was like, the weather is nice. It was raining 469 00:31:33,726 --> 00:31:35,906 Speaker 3: all last week. It's supposed to be so hot this week, 470 00:31:35,946 --> 00:31:36,936 Speaker 3: so I'm really excited. 471 00:31:36,956 --> 00:31:41,616 Speaker 2: It's April 30th. Mitrice's birthday. 472 00:31:42,296 --> 00:31:45,926 Speaker 3: She would have been 39, which is so crazy. Going 473 00:31:45,946 --> 00:31:49,546 Speaker 3: through the pictures, I did my annual Facebook, Instagram post 474 00:31:49,786 --> 00:31:52,486 Speaker 3: and trying not to get choked up, but just seeing 475 00:31:52,566 --> 00:31:55,586 Speaker 3: us so young and happy at prom and homecoming. And 476 00:31:56,086 --> 00:31:58,586 Speaker 3: you just think like we would have been celebrating this 477 00:31:58,646 --> 00:32:00,236 Speaker 3: is the last year of your 30s. 478 00:32:01,626 --> 00:32:05,766 Speaker 2: Every year since Mitrice's disappearance, Jewel has celebrated her birthday. 479 00:32:06,026 --> 00:32:10,106 Speaker 3: Which ones are the biggest? I like those ones. 480 00:32:10,896 --> 00:32:11,516 Speaker 4: Hi. 481 00:32:12,116 --> 00:32:14,856 Speaker 2: She always starts with a big bouquet of sunflowers. 482 00:32:15,646 --> 00:32:16,886 Speaker 9: Thank you. 483 00:32:18,606 --> 00:32:19,286 Speaker 3: Thank you. 484 00:32:19,586 --> 00:32:21,326 Speaker 6: So pretty. 485 00:32:22,306 --> 00:32:26,116 Speaker 2: Jewel says she's reserved the afternoon for my trees. She 486 00:32:26,136 --> 00:32:28,176 Speaker 2: might go to the beach or take a dance class. 487 00:32:28,906 --> 00:32:31,546 Speaker 3: I just do whatever she does. Like, whatever she would do, 488 00:32:31,626 --> 00:32:35,726 Speaker 3: I'm like, just follow Mitrice's essence. Just let me get 489 00:32:35,746 --> 00:32:38,886 Speaker 3: through the work meetings and the day is yours, girl. 490 00:32:39,186 --> 00:32:41,806 Speaker 2: We decide to stop for a cup of coffee. Yes, 491 00:32:41,906 --> 00:32:43,486 Speaker 2: I'm going to do water and coffee. 492 00:32:43,506 --> 00:32:44,846 Speaker 5: Done. 493 00:32:45,146 --> 00:32:45,806 Speaker 4: Check. 494 00:32:46,506 --> 00:32:47,486 Speaker 7: Perfect. 495 00:32:47,686 --> 00:32:48,466 Speaker 9: Yes, please. 496 00:32:49,426 --> 00:32:52,106 Speaker 2: I asked Jewel, what does she think Mitrice would be 497 00:32:52,176 --> 00:32:53,416 Speaker 2: doing at this point in her life? 498 00:32:54,526 --> 00:32:56,646 Speaker 7: I think about that all the time. 499 00:32:56,746 --> 00:32:58,626 Speaker 3: I'm like, would she be a teacher? 500 00:32:58,746 --> 00:33:00,286 Speaker 2: Would she be married? 501 00:33:00,396 --> 00:33:03,216 Speaker 3: Like, what would be going on? Also, like, society has 502 00:33:03,256 --> 00:33:06,196 Speaker 3: changed so much since then. So I'm like, you know, 503 00:33:06,696 --> 00:33:09,736 Speaker 3: would she have embraced her sexuality? Like, what other things 504 00:33:09,756 --> 00:33:10,636 Speaker 3: would she be? 505 00:33:11,736 --> 00:33:14,436 Speaker 2: Jewel shows us the post she made on Instagram today. 506 00:33:14,456 --> 00:33:17,166 Speaker 2: A collage of photos of her and Mitrice. 507 00:33:18,166 --> 00:33:21,566 Speaker 3: Today we celebrate you. Your light will forever shine bright 508 00:33:21,646 --> 00:33:23,646 Speaker 3: and never be dimmed. No one will ever be able 509 00:33:23,666 --> 00:33:26,066 Speaker 3: to take away the amazing daughter or sister and person 510 00:33:26,126 --> 00:33:28,526 Speaker 3: and friend that you are. I often think of all 511 00:33:28,566 --> 00:33:30,676 Speaker 3: the laughs we shared, what amazing things you would be 512 00:33:30,716 --> 00:33:33,196 Speaker 3: doing right now, and how you would be positively changing 513 00:33:33,236 --> 00:33:36,976 Speaker 3: this crazy world with your gifts and talents. Sunflowers, reggaeton, 514 00:33:37,016 --> 00:33:39,316 Speaker 3: and Donny Hathaway will fill the room along with prayers 515 00:33:39,336 --> 00:33:41,496 Speaker 3: that whoever cut your life short will get the justice 516 00:33:41,516 --> 00:33:42,016 Speaker 3: they deserve. 517 00:33:45,696 --> 00:33:49,996 Speaker 2: What would justice for my trees look like now? The 518 00:33:50,036 --> 00:33:53,996 Speaker 2: Sheriff's Department basically declared her case unsolvable as soon as 519 00:33:54,036 --> 00:33:57,596 Speaker 2: her remains were found. I don't think the Lost Hills 520 00:33:57,616 --> 00:34:01,036 Speaker 2: deputies or anyone from the Sheriff's Department had any direct 521 00:34:01,206 --> 00:34:04,726 Speaker 2: involvement with Mitrice's death. But the rumors that have always 522 00:34:04,826 --> 00:34:09,706 Speaker 2: lingered around their culpability are not entirely baseless. Because even 523 00:34:09,766 --> 00:34:14,066 Speaker 2: if they weren't responsible, they contributed to her disappearance. And 524 00:34:14,126 --> 00:34:16,426 Speaker 2: then they failed to solve her death. 525 00:34:17,576 --> 00:34:18,236 Speaker 6: It's as if. 526 00:34:18,416 --> 00:34:20,716 Speaker 2: Knowing that Mitrice was in the midst of a mental 527 00:34:20,756 --> 00:34:25,006 Speaker 2: health crisis, law enforcement allowed that to explain her death. 528 00:34:25,746 --> 00:34:29,726 Speaker 2: Instead of thinking, her mental state made her more vulnerable 529 00:34:29,946 --> 00:34:35,536 Speaker 2: to a predator. No matter how accomplished, how ambitious, how 530 00:34:35,576 --> 00:34:39,676 Speaker 2: full of life Mitrice was, she was only an outsider 531 00:34:39,716 --> 00:34:43,356 Speaker 2: in Malibu. There are very few black people in Malibu, 532 00:34:43,756 --> 00:34:48,106 Speaker 2: especially in Montanito. And I do think Mitrice's race is 533 00:34:48,146 --> 00:34:51,996 Speaker 2: a core reason her case hasn't been solved. I've had 534 00:34:52,076 --> 00:34:55,856 Speaker 2: current and former officers tell me privately that, to summon 535 00:34:55,896 --> 00:34:59,236 Speaker 2: law enforcement, the death of a mentally ill black woman 536 00:34:59,656 --> 00:35:04,786 Speaker 2: needs no further explanation. Almost like, what did she expect 537 00:35:04,826 --> 00:35:10,246 Speaker 2: would happen, showing up that way in Malibu? And then 538 00:35:10,286 --> 00:35:18,426 Speaker 2: you have Rick Forsberg. Half-California golden boy, half-monster. As much 539 00:35:18,486 --> 00:35:21,206 Speaker 2: as he hated and was hated by the cops in Malibu, 540 00:35:21,836 --> 00:35:24,396 Speaker 2: as much pain as he inflicted, as much as he 541 00:35:24,496 --> 00:35:27,536 Speaker 2: took from the beautiful place he grew up, he was 542 00:35:27,676 --> 00:35:32,716 Speaker 2: still more protected than Mitrice could ever be. So what 543 00:35:32,796 --> 00:35:37,546 Speaker 2: would justice look like? Practically, to solve the case would 544 00:35:37,586 --> 00:35:41,426 Speaker 2: require Lieutenant Modica from Homicide to assign a new investigator, 545 00:35:42,006 --> 00:35:46,276 Speaker 2: who would interview and re-interview everyone associated with it, in 546 00:35:46,336 --> 00:35:48,836 Speaker 2: an attempt to answer some of the questions that are 547 00:35:48,896 --> 00:35:53,516 Speaker 2: still gaps for us. It would take thorough forensic processing 548 00:35:53,756 --> 00:35:58,096 Speaker 2: of Rick's fort, including DNA testing of everything we collected. 549 00:35:59,596 --> 00:36:03,536 Speaker 2: That former LAPD cold case detective I talked to, who 550 00:36:03,576 --> 00:36:07,336 Speaker 2: basically said this was a lost cause, told me that 551 00:36:07,356 --> 00:36:10,336 Speaker 2: to solve the case, I'd need to find a retired 552 00:36:10,416 --> 00:36:14,396 Speaker 2: Sheriff's Department homicide detective who'd taken home the case file 553 00:36:14,866 --> 00:36:17,466 Speaker 2: and hated the department enough to leak it to me. 554 00:36:18,846 --> 00:36:23,346 Speaker 2: I disagree. I think it would just take one current 555 00:36:23,446 --> 00:36:27,266 Speaker 2: homicide investigator who believes in what the sheriff's department is 556 00:36:27,306 --> 00:36:31,766 Speaker 2: supposed to stand for. But the department has rebuffed every 557 00:36:31,846 --> 00:36:37,486 Speaker 2: single overture we've made, from fact-finding to fact-checking to fact-sharing. 558 00:36:38,546 --> 00:36:44,936 Speaker 2: They have my number if they want to call. We 559 00:36:44,976 --> 00:36:47,696 Speaker 2: packed up Mitrice's hairbrush and a few other items of 560 00:36:47,736 --> 00:36:50,476 Speaker 2: hers we'd borrowed from Michael and brought them back to him. 561 00:36:52,076 --> 00:36:54,186 Speaker 2: It was hard telling him that we didn't get the 562 00:36:54,316 --> 00:36:58,886 Speaker 2: answer we'd all wanted so badly. But Michael has a 563 00:36:58,946 --> 00:37:01,826 Speaker 2: broader view of crime and punishment than he once did. 564 00:37:03,766 --> 00:37:06,046 Speaker 2: He tells us he used to dream of facing off 565 00:37:06,126 --> 00:37:10,506 Speaker 2: against Mitrice's killer in a courtroom, whoever he was, and 566 00:37:10,566 --> 00:37:12,526 Speaker 2: attacking him with his bare hands. 567 00:37:14,496 --> 00:37:18,736 Speaker 4: And for some reason, I said to myself, I can 568 00:37:18,856 --> 00:37:22,776 Speaker 4: always hear my child saying to me that it's not 569 00:37:22,816 --> 00:37:23,476 Speaker 4: even worth it. 570 00:37:24,826 --> 00:37:26,706 Speaker 2: Michael no longer wants revenge. 571 00:37:27,846 --> 00:37:32,006 Speaker 4: The universe will handle it. Because everyone who's done something 572 00:37:32,066 --> 00:37:35,246 Speaker 4: bad to me, mistreated me, took advantage of me or whatever, 573 00:37:35,726 --> 00:37:38,236 Speaker 4: I have been, I don't want to say blessed, but 574 00:37:38,296 --> 00:37:43,116 Speaker 4: I have seen them in their demise. Karma doesn't work 575 00:37:43,196 --> 00:37:47,146 Speaker 4: right away or people will stop doing bad things. But 576 00:37:47,206 --> 00:37:51,786 Speaker 4: if you have the patience to wait, if you're blessed, 577 00:37:51,846 --> 00:37:54,926 Speaker 4: you will see it happen to them. You cannot put 578 00:37:55,146 --> 00:37:58,866 Speaker 4: negative in this world and expect positive returns. 579 00:38:01,296 --> 00:38:04,076 Speaker 2: He believes his daughter was the victim of a murderer 580 00:38:04,396 --> 00:38:08,736 Speaker 2: who never paid for his heinous crime. But, he says, 581 00:38:09,716 --> 00:38:11,536 Speaker 2: Mitrice wasn't the only victim. 582 00:38:13,346 --> 00:38:17,266 Speaker 4: And the ancient proverb says, if you kill a person, 583 00:38:18,166 --> 00:38:20,266 Speaker 4: dig two graves, because you're next. 584 00:38:24,416 --> 00:38:30,156 Speaker 2: A murderer destroys his own life, too. And that may 585 00:38:30,216 --> 00:38:45,736 Speaker 2: be the best justice. I'm Dana Goodyear. This has been 586 00:38:45,796 --> 00:39:16,116 Speaker 2: Lost Hills Season 4, Dark Canyon. Way back in Episode 1, 587 00:39:16,116 --> 00:39:20,516 Speaker 2: the forensic pathologist in Mitrice's case told us, despite everything, 588 00:39:21,096 --> 00:39:25,296 Speaker 2: Mitrice's case is still solvable. It will just take the 589 00:39:25,336 --> 00:39:26,276 Speaker 2: right information. 590 00:39:27,886 --> 00:39:31,926 Speaker 9: If there was foul play involved, someone could confess. 591 00:39:33,306 --> 00:39:33,906 Speaker 2: You never know. 592 00:39:33,986 --> 00:39:40,356 Speaker 9: Could be deathbed confession. Maybe they'll raid somewhere, someplace, and 593 00:39:40,396 --> 00:39:45,436 Speaker 9: they'll find pictures of her. But anything is possible. Sometimes 594 00:39:45,796 --> 00:39:49,316 Speaker 9: killers will save souvenirs that can be recognized as something 595 00:39:49,356 --> 00:39:51,996 Speaker 9: from the person. Anything like that could happen. 596 00:39:53,216 --> 00:39:55,796 Speaker 2: We've spoken with a lot of people about Mitrice and 597 00:39:55,836 --> 00:39:58,916 Speaker 2: about Rick Forsberg. and I know there are still more 598 00:39:58,976 --> 00:40:04,356 Speaker 2: people with more information. This message is for them. We've 599 00:40:04,376 --> 00:40:06,576 Speaker 2: set up a phone number you can call or text. 600 00:40:07,116 --> 00:40:07,436 Speaker 6: It's 213-349-6050. 601 00:40:07,456 --> 00:40:10,736 Speaker 2: There's also an email you can write to, losthills at western-sound.com. 602 00:40:26,956 --> 00:40:30,156 Speaker 2: Lost Hills Dark Canyon is hosted and written by me, 603 00:40:30,436 --> 00:40:34,636 Speaker 2: Dana Goodyear. The creators and executive producers of Lost Hills 604 00:40:34,916 --> 00:40:38,116 Speaker 2: are me and Ben Adair. The show was reported by 605 00:40:38,176 --> 00:40:42,616 Speaker 2: me and Haley Fox. Haley Fox is also the senior producer. 606 00:40:43,556 --> 00:40:48,026 Speaker 2: Ben Adair and Colin McNulty edited the show. Stella Hartman 607 00:40:48,226 --> 00:40:53,126 Speaker 2: is the associate producer. The production team also includes Sabrina Fang, 608 00:40:53,346 --> 00:40:57,826 Speaker 2: Sarah Dealy, and Savannah Wright. Fact-checking is by Elen Werner. 609 00:40:58,746 --> 00:41:02,726 Speaker 2: Original composition, sound design, and mixing is by Alex McGinnis. 610 00:41:03,546 --> 00:41:07,176 Speaker 2: The Lost Hills theme is by Dan Leone. Our cover 611 00:41:07,276 --> 00:41:11,836 Speaker 2: art is by Francesca Gabbiani. The voice of Mitrice Richardson 612 00:41:12,016 --> 00:41:17,216 Speaker 2: was read by Pippa Voss. From Pushkin Industries, additional story 613 00:41:17,256 --> 00:41:21,386 Speaker 2: consulting is by Sophie Crane and Leela Day. The executive 614 00:41:21,426 --> 00:41:25,856 Speaker 2: producer from Pushkin is Jacob Smith. Special thanks to the 615 00:41:25,896 --> 00:41:41,026 Speaker 2: Pushkin team. Lost Hills is a production of Western Sound 616 00:41:41,246 --> 00:41:44,946 Speaker 2: and Pushkin Industries. You can sign up for Western Sound's 617 00:41:45,026 --> 00:41:53,776 Speaker 2: newsletter at western-sound.com. Pushkin's newsletter is at pushkin.fm. Follow at 618 00:41:53,876 --> 00:41:57,176 Speaker 2: Lost Hills Pod on social media. And please remember to 619 00:41:57,256 --> 00:42:01,026 Speaker 2: rate and review the show in your podcast app. Subscribe 620 00:42:01,046 --> 00:42:04,126 Speaker 2: to Pushkin Plus and you can binge entire seasons of 621 00:42:04,266 --> 00:42:08,906 Speaker 2: other podcasts right now ad-free. Find Pushkin Plus on the 622 00:42:08,946 --> 00:42:12,866 Speaker 2: Lost Hills show page in Apple Podcasts or at pushkin.fm 623 00:42:12,946 --> 00:42:17,326 Speaker 2: slash plus. To find more Pushkin Podcasts, listen on the 624 00:42:17,446 --> 00:42:21,746 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.