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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey there, welcome back.

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Speaker 3: It's the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci

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Speaker 3: and Joe Ed Joe.

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Speaker 2: It's Christmas Week. How you feeling this week?

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Speaker 4: Actually pretty good. I'm back up here in Pennsylvania for

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Speaker 4: the week. It's a little cold, colder than it was

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Speaker 4: don in Tampa, but I'm enjoying it. Got some great snow,

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Speaker 4: so we got the Christmas spirit going on. So I'm

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Speaker 4: doing well.

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Speaker 2: Cool white Christmas.

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Speaker 3: We don't get many of those these days. It seems

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Speaker 3: like it's just enough to make it look pretty nice.

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Speaker 2: I like it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I guess it's supposed to possibly snow again tomorrow.

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Speaker 4: I think that's what it says for our forecast up

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Speaker 4: here in northeastern Pennsylvania. Perfect. And then I head back

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Speaker 4: down south on Friday, and then I'll try to get

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Speaker 4: back into the literal swing of things at Saint Pete

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Speaker 4: Country Club.

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Speaker 3: Sounds like a plan, of course, at the time of

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Speaker 3: year where not just the holiday coming out, but the

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Speaker 3: end of the year we kind of look back on

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Speaker 3: the you know, Players of the Year and all kinds

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Speaker 3: of awards being handed out later on Joe, I want

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Speaker 3: to talk about the word of the Year, and I.

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Speaker 2: Love it and I think you're gonna dig it too cool.

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Speaker 3: But first I want to talk about since we are

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Speaker 3: talking about Christmas Day, unfortunately some really sad news over

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Speaker 3: the weekend. Ricky Henderson, one of the greatest players of

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Speaker 3: all time, passed away. This was not expected at all,

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Speaker 3: and Ricky was actually born on Christmas Day in the

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Speaker 3: backseat of an Oldsmobile on his way to the hospital

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Speaker 3: in Chicago. As Ricky once told me, I was fast

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Speaker 3: from the beginning. And it really is quite a story

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Speaker 3: the life of Ricky Henderson, one of the great characters,

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Speaker 3: one of the greatest players of all time. And Joe

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Speaker 3: I got to say, I don't know want to put

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Speaker 3: a number on this, but Ricky Henderson easily was one

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Speaker 3: of the greatest player payers that I ever saw play.

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Speaker 4: Totally agree with that. I was striving and somebody texted

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Speaker 4: me about it. I was really really upset about this one.

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Speaker 4: I did get the chance to play against him in

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Speaker 4: the minor leagues when he was a modesto and I

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Speaker 4: was in Salinas. That's when I first ran into him,

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Speaker 4: and eventually as a coach with the Angels. He got

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Speaker 4: to the Angels for a brief period of time and

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Speaker 4: was able to be around him then also and then

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Speaker 4: of course working against him when he's in Oakland. That's

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Speaker 4: really a tough, tough guy to prep against. So many

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Speaker 4: things that he did well on the baseball field, but

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Speaker 4: the thing he did more than anything, I think is

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Speaker 4: his charisma and energy and which led into this base

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Speaker 4: stealing and his leadoff prowess and the disruption of the

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Speaker 4: other team, and the fact that he did he was

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Speaker 4: always in the middle of something good for that team

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Speaker 4: as on base percentage. You know, he's one of those

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Speaker 4: guys with the with Scott's normally did not want to

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Speaker 4: draft with the right hand he hit, and a left

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Speaker 4: tended thrower that was considered a curse. All the different

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Speaker 4: things about him was so unique, really funny guy. I

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Speaker 4: know people have already I've seen some different things written

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Speaker 4: about him, and he was he was very funny just

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Speaker 4: by talking because he just had his own way of

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Speaker 4: expressing himself, which was spectacular. So this one bothered me

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Speaker 4: a bit, Like you said, unexpected. You know, he's such

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Speaker 4: a strong looking human being, such a strong not tall,

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Speaker 4: but strong guy, and so I was kind of impacted

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Speaker 4: by this little bit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting, Joe how and you know this, there

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Speaker 3: are some deaths and almost always had someone gone way

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Speaker 3: too soon.

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Speaker 2: That just affects you a little bit more.

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Speaker 3: He used that word bothered. I felt the same way

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Speaker 3: years ago. I felt that way when we lost Gary Carter.

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Speaker 3: But there was something about Ricky Henderson, and for me

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Speaker 3: it's personal. I went obviously covered a lot of Ricky's career.

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Speaker 3: I was covering the Yankees on the beat when he

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Speaker 3: joined the Yankees and had one of the greatest years

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Speaker 3: ever where he had more runs scored than games played.

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Speaker 3: I swear it seemed like every night Henderson would start

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Speaker 3: the game with a walk, he'd steal second base. Willie

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Speaker 3: Randolph woul hit a ground ball the second to get

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Speaker 3: him the third, and domattically we hit a fly ball

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Speaker 3: to get him in. It was like, before you blinked,

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Speaker 3: it was one nothing Yankees. But later on, I think

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Speaker 3: this was two thousand and three, I went to go

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Speaker 3: do a story for Ricky with Sports Illustrated when he

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Speaker 3: was playing for an independent baseball team in Newark, New Jersey,

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Speaker 3: and I think he was forty three at the time

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Speaker 3: and It's one of only two interviews that I've ever

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Speaker 3: done Joe when when it was over, the subject in

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Speaker 3: the interview gave me a big hug. I'm not talking

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Speaker 3: about like a bro hug. You know, it's common that

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Speaker 3: we see a lot, but I mean it. He was

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Speaker 3: very appreciative fact that I came to Newark and this.

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Speaker 3: You know, it really wasn't the nicest place in the

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Speaker 3: world in terms of facilities, especially for a guy who

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Speaker 3: was a Hall of Famer, would be a Hall of Famer.

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Speaker 3: He was just a pleasant, pleasant guy, a sweetheart to

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Speaker 3: be around with a great heart and if anybody questioned

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Speaker 3: how much he loved baseball, And I remember this to

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Speaker 3: this day. When he was playing in Newark, he was

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Speaker 3: actually renting a place in New York, in Manhattan, and

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Speaker 3: he would commute to the ballpark. He was being paid

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Speaker 3: three thousand dollars a month to play for this independent

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Speaker 3: league team. His rent in New York was four thousand

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Speaker 3: a month.

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Speaker 2: He was literally paying to play independent minor league baseball

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Speaker 2: at the age of forty three. How cool is that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, then, how could you possibly question someone's desire

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Speaker 4: to play the game when they end up doing something

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Speaker 4: like that again. He was, he was. It was funny.

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Speaker 4: I had conversations with him. I always I just wanted

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Speaker 4: to get in there a little bit about his base stealing,

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Speaker 4: base running. Not that he gave me a lot, but

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Speaker 4: I do remember because I used to keep times to

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Speaker 4: the plate, and I think I remember properly. The pitch

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Speaker 4: was like one two or one three, which is really

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Speaker 4: quick to home plate. And I got him. I got him.

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Speaker 4: And he's older. I mean, I can't remember the age

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Speaker 4: he was with the Angels, but he wasn't a spring chicken,

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Speaker 4: you know. And he gets out there to first, he

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Speaker 4: does that that crawl where he gets measures the lead

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Speaker 4: right step, the left foot back to the right foot,

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Speaker 4: right foot out, left foot back to the right foot,

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Speaker 4: and then eventually just takes off and gets it easily

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Speaker 4: on a picture that was relatively and relatively very quick

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Speaker 4: to the plate. He he was one of those instinctive

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Speaker 4: You talk about instinctive players in today's world. Well, I

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Speaker 4: can't even imagine somebody trying to get to him on

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Speaker 4: a daily basis with a bunch of printouts. I can't

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Speaker 4: even imagine what that would look like. This guy lived

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Speaker 4: off of instinct. He was born of instinct, I mean,

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Speaker 4: to be born in the back of a vehicle moving vehicle. Wow,

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Speaker 4: that's just that. I never even knew that part of

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Speaker 4: the story. But he's a tribute to athleticism and instinct.

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Speaker 4: And you just kind of mentioned his competitive nature because

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Speaker 4: gotta love the game to do the things that he did.

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Speaker 4: And furthermore, the guy was always in the dirt, beat

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Speaker 4: up his body on a nightly basis, and that's a

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Speaker 4: tribute to how strong he actually was. But to steal

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Speaker 4: his men basis as he did it, to slide as

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Speaker 4: many times as he did, and just keep getting up

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Speaker 4: and brushing himself off and going out to play the

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Speaker 4: game the next day with the same kind of zeal

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Speaker 4: and verb. That doesn't happen. And you know, people talked

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Speaker 4: the last couple of years when the rules changed here

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Speaker 4: that everyod's gonna start stealing bases. Well it has. It

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Speaker 4: has increased, obviously, but not to the level I think

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Speaker 4: that you know, we possibly thought it might, because it's

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Speaker 4: just hard to do. It's hard to have that much energy.

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Speaker 4: It's hard to get that jump, lead, study, slide, get

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Speaker 4: back up, brush yourself off, go and then play every

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Speaker 4: day and play outfield and everything that he did. He

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Speaker 4: just kind of underestimate all that he had done for

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Speaker 4: the game of baseball and how he did it.

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Speaker 2: It's a great point, Joe.

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Speaker 3: I mean, his body and his energy were just amazing

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Speaker 3: to withstand what he went through as a base dealer.

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Speaker 3: Don't forget there's no limit on pickoffs back in the

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Speaker 3: day as well. Guys thrown over there all the time,

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Speaker 3: always sliding head first, always, and he talked about he

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Speaker 3: learned to do that in nineteen seventy nine in Triple A.

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Speaker 3: He had a teammate named Michael Rodriguez who showed him

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Speaker 3: how to dive head first, and Ricky said the first

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Speaker 3: time he did it, he said it because Michael Rodriguez

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Speaker 3: told him it's like diving into the water. And Ricky

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Speaker 3: really banged. He got banged up the first three times

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Speaker 3: he did it. Then he realized that you need to

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Speaker 3: go in low. And you watch a lot of guys

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Speaker 3: slide in head first. A lot of guys these days

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Speaker 3: do not know how to do it. They'll get their

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Speaker 3: hands out underneath them. They could get hurt. Ricky was

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Speaker 3: the epitome of how to slide head first. I mean

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Speaker 3: it was powerful, it was low to the ground, and

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Speaker 3: he actually said later on it was because of a

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Speaker 3: flight he took to Kansas City one time where he

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Speaker 3: realized the proper technique because the plane came in really

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Speaker 3: low to the ground, and on the previous flight the

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Speaker 3: flight had come in sharply and banged when it hit

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Speaker 3: the ground, and he realized, oh, I got to come

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Speaker 3: in lower to the ground.

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Speaker 2: That was Ricky as well.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, he once said that he could

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Speaker 3: hit three p forty with thirty five home runs a

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Speaker 3: year if he did not steal bases and put his

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Speaker 3: body through all the you know, the injuries and just

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Speaker 3: the soreness that he lived through. But he said, Ricky

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Speaker 3: Henderson is expected to steal. That was Ricky, and Ricky

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Speaker 3: the famous line.

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Speaker 4: It's so good you know. Actually I mentioned I did

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Speaker 4: play against him in the minor leagues at that time.

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Speaker 4: It was in Thedesto, and of course Oakland was known

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Speaker 4: to be very cheap, not even inexpensive. They were cheap,

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Speaker 4: and they ran out of bats and I had to

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Speaker 4: have not They asked our side, and I lend him

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Speaker 4: one of my bats, and as it turned out, they

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Speaker 4: all came up to the plan and I'm catching, and

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Speaker 4: they all come up to the plan and look up

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Speaker 4: and they're using my bat that night, and of course

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Speaker 4: Ricky did also. It was so strange retrospectively. That's one

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Speaker 4: of the things I thought about, first of all, is

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Speaker 4: the fact playing in that that ballpark was not very

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Speaker 4: deep all around. We could hit a home run there

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Speaker 4: and the whole team using the same bat, I remember,

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Speaker 4: at least for the first time through the batting order.

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Speaker 4: I don't even know if they probably eventually broke it

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Speaker 4: or not, but that was one of my recollects. The

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Speaker 4: other one was I did throw him out once. I

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Speaker 4: did throw him out in Salinas. He was trying to

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Speaker 4: break the record for the Cal League, and then eventually

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Speaker 4: did break it with me behind the player. But it

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Speaker 4: was another guy on that team. I think it was.

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Speaker 4: Last name was Woodard or Woodward. They stole Ricky Lick

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Speaker 4: between ninety and one hundred bases, and Woodward was right

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Speaker 4: around ninety bases. These guys, that was Tom Treblehorne was

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Speaker 4: the manager at that time. These guys were just if

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Speaker 4: you're catching, oh my god, I talk about catching anxiety

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Speaker 4: because there's nothing you can do. I mean, if your

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Speaker 4: Pitcher's not going to give you any kind of an opportunity,

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Speaker 4: and you got to be quick and accurate. Whatever. Whenever

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Speaker 4: you play the Oakland A's minor league modesto team or

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Speaker 4: Modesto A's, they're going, they're going. So I saw that

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Speaker 4: in the beginning, and then of course the hitting all

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Speaker 4: of a sudden, you see pop ball jumped up is bad,

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Speaker 4: it went far, and it was just such a he

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Speaker 4: was in my mind's he was very similar build wise,

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Speaker 4: even at that time as we saw in the big

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Speaker 4: leagues later. Just a strong human being, but he played

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Speaker 4: the game hard. The guy was always dirty man. And

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Speaker 4: that's where it began when I saw that modesto team.

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Speaker 4: They ran and they ran and they ran, and he

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Speaker 4: did it all the way to the Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you mentioned Tom treble Horn, if I remember correctly,

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Speaker 3: years and years later, it was some milestone. It might

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Speaker 3: have been the American League stolen base record, a key

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Speaker 3: stall and base that he got he actually gave to

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Speaker 3: Tom tremble Horn all those years later.

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Speaker 2: Was such an influence on him.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned the body, Joe, I mean, he and the

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Speaker 3: fact that I know for a fact he did not

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Speaker 3: want any scattered reports on the opposing pitcher. He would

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Speaker 3: just get in the box and play baseball. It was

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Speaker 3: a beautiful thing to see. He was not a big weightlifter,

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Speaker 3: and he was built like an NFL running back.

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Speaker 2: It was amazing.

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Speaker 3: Ricky would do essentially every day, two hundred sit ups,

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Speaker 3: one hundred pull ups.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's as old school as you can get.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I thought it he was as much

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Speaker 3: as I talked about him, you know, being great playing

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Speaker 3: for the New York Yankees, and he really was. There

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Speaker 3: was a lot of people who didn't understand him, the

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Speaker 3: fact that he did have some leg injuries there.

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Speaker 2: Lou Penelo is the man, George steim Brenner the.

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Speaker 3: Owner, and they were getting on Ricky about possibly not

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Speaker 3: playing as hard he should have played through some injuries.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: It's a great example, Joe, to me, of why it's

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Speaker 3: so different to play in New York, because there's so

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Speaker 3: much media there and everything gets amplified that there's more

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Speaker 3: of a stress on the negative than there is on

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Speaker 3: a celebration of the positive. And I think that was

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Speaker 3: the case of Ricky Henderson. In his first day he

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Speaker 3: showed up. It was opening day and the media wanted

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Speaker 3: to talk to him right before the game, and he

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Speaker 3: just got to his locker and he said, Ricky, don't

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Speaker 3: need no press now, man, And like everybody turned against them,

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Speaker 3: and at that moment, it's like, we're done with Ricky Henderson.

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Speaker 3: Who was he to tell us that this is not

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Speaker 3: the time to talk to reporters. So he had a

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Speaker 3: great line later on, reflecting on his career about playing.

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Speaker 2: In New York.

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Speaker 3: Of course, Oakland was where he grew up, as best

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Speaker 3: years probably were in Oakland. He said, you know, everything

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Speaker 3: is kind of a crisis there in New York, whereas

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Speaker 3: in Oakland there's more of a feeling of soal dignity.

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Speaker 3: A person can be himself. I mean, that's pretty wise

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Speaker 3: observant words for Ricky Anderson.

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Speaker 4: Uh, you know much. I love that. That's exactly right.

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Speaker 4: Nobody stood in a way of his greatness. He was

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Speaker 4: able to control his own destiny. Really, he had some

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Speaker 4: mentors along the way. In the fact I didn't know

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Speaker 4: he gave treble Horn the base that that really resonates.

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Speaker 4: As you know, if you look back in our history,

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Speaker 4: as you my history, whatever, there are certain coaches that

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Speaker 4: mentors that really made an impact on our careers in

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Speaker 4: our lives and when people, when they eventually become successful,

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Speaker 4: they take the time to reflect and give credit and

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Speaker 4: that in that direction, that just screams about the fella.

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Speaker 4: I mean, like again, Ricky, he talked in the third person.

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Speaker 4: You know, he was always referencing Ricky and it was funny.

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Speaker 4: It was absolutely funny. But but god, he had a

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Speaker 4: heart of gold. Like you're talking to. We've already mentioned

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Speaker 4: a couple of different things. And the fact that he

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Speaker 4: would take the time to recognize trev and do that

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Speaker 4: for him, I think that just screams everything about him

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Speaker 4: right there. And I love the line when he came

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Speaker 4: to New York he just they didn't understand Ricky don't

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Speaker 4: need any press right now, Ricky getting ready for the game.

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Speaker 4: I love all of that. It's hysterical. And at the

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Speaker 4: same time, if you were a teammate of his, I mean,

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Speaker 4: how could you not appreciate the way the guy played

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Speaker 4: the game every every night.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and he loved the spotlight. I mean, the bigger

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Speaker 3: the game, the better Ricky played. I watched him all

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Speaker 3: the time when he was on deck, he was chatting

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Speaker 3: with fans all the time.

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Speaker 2: Postseason, I mean, if you want to.

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Speaker 3: Put together a short list of the greatest postseason players

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Speaker 3: ever in terms of runs created, you've got Babe Ruth,

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Speaker 3: Ricky Henderson, and Lou Garritt. I mean, he was that

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Speaker 3: good in the big moments. I'll tell you a quick story, Joe,

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Speaker 3: and I'm sure you probably saw this. And when you

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Speaker 3: were on the other side the way he could really

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Speaker 3: irritate other teams with Ricky being Ricky, right, it wasn't

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Speaker 3: just that he was so talented, the game was played

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Speaker 3: at his pace. So it's the nineteen eighty nine ALCS

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Speaker 3: and Oakland is playing Toronto. It's game one of the series.

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Speaker 3: He steps in the hit against Dave Steve, and right

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Speaker 3: before Steve is about to throw the first pitch, Ricky

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Speaker 3: calls time out. I'm like, right before, I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: clearly doing it's a bit of gazemanship. The game's gonna

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Speaker 3: be played on my term. Steve gets upset, walks Ricky

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Speaker 3: Ricky Steele second base scores.

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Speaker 2: The A's are off and.

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Speaker 3: Running game two. Todd Stolameyer is on the mound. Right

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Speaker 3: before stota Meyer is about to throw the first pitch,

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Speaker 3: Ricky calls time out and he starts erasing the chalk

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Speaker 3: lines in the batter's box, making Stola Meyer just stand

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Speaker 3: out there and wait. As he goes about his groundskeeping,

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Speaker 3: he's singles starts the game's win again game three. Forget

334
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Speaker 3: who's on the mount? For game three, I was Jimmy Key.

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Speaker 3: Jimmy Key's on the mount. In game three, same thing happened,

336
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Speaker 3: but this time he calls time out and he says

337
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Speaker 3: to Ernie Wit the catcher, Hello, Ernie, how you doing Ernie.

338
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Speaker 3: He's like, get in the box, and Ricky says, you know, Ernie,

339
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Speaker 3: stealing based on you anytime I want. This is holding

340
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Speaker 3: up the first pitch God. And that's Ricky Henderson. I mean,

341
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Speaker 3: he was just a joy to watch this teammate. Guys

342
00:16:16,278 --> 00:16:18,318
Speaker 3: loved him. But if you were playing on the other side,

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Speaker 3: how irritating was Ricky Henderson?

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Speaker 4: See all that stuff is so beautiful. The game was

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Speaker 4: really about, you know, people and characters and of character

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Speaker 4: and sometimes just being a character. The little innuendo, the

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Speaker 4: little stuff that occurred made his laugh. It's like you

348
00:16:37,958 --> 00:16:39,878
Speaker 4: made me laugh right there. That was that was sincere

349
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Speaker 4: because there was so not just Ricky, there was so

350
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Speaker 4: many guys kind of like that, and the game was

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Speaker 4: played with a little bit more of a freedom about

352
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Speaker 4: it at that particular time, and it wasn't as much interference,

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Speaker 4: and you saw people able to express themselves in that way.

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Speaker 4: But it's true he Ernie, Ernie knew that, Ricky knew that,

355
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Speaker 4: pictures knew that. And at that time, you mean the

356
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Speaker 4: back rolls and throwing like you said, throw over to

357
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Speaker 4: first base, not not even coming set, and just kicking

358
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Speaker 4: through it. And eventually they changed that rule for a

359
00:17:10,078 --> 00:17:11,958
Speaker 4: bit and they came back where you had to have

360
00:17:11,998 --> 00:17:14,598
Speaker 4: a discernible pause at the bottom of your coming set.

361
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Speaker 4: All this stuff, all these disruptions so interesting, and that's

362
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Speaker 4: the kind of stuff, you know, I grew up with

363
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Speaker 4: in baseball. Those are the kind of discussions that we had,

364
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Speaker 4: and it's kind of stuff that we had to deal

365
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Speaker 4: with at that particular time, not so much, you know, rules,

366
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Speaker 4: as much as like feel and innuendo and the flow

367
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Speaker 4: of the game. How to understand that and beat it.

368
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Speaker 4: It beat that kind of a thing.

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 4: It was great. It was great, and Ricky I'm so

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Speaker 4: honored and pleased to have known him and to have

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Speaker 4: played against him, even it was on a minor league

373
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Speaker 4: level because he is, He's a Hall of Famer. He's

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Speaker 4: one of those characters of the game. But his talent

375
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Speaker 4: level was so so big.

376
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Speaker 3: I mean, the name of the game, right is to

377
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Speaker 3: score more runs than the other team. Ricky and scored

378
00:18:04,478 --> 00:18:07,038
Speaker 3: more runs than anybody who ever played Major League baseball.

379
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Speaker 3: I mean, I know, the stolen bases what he's known for,

380
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Speaker 3: but the guy was on base all the time, knew

381
00:18:12,438 --> 00:18:16,198
Speaker 3: how to run the bases, and played a very long time,

382
00:18:16,278 --> 00:18:20,238
Speaker 3: more than two decades. You know, there's no doubt that

383
00:18:20,278 --> 00:18:22,958
Speaker 3: he will be missed by many people in many ways.

384
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Speaker 3: And I know there's a lot of stories out there

385
00:18:24,838 --> 00:18:29,038
Speaker 3: Joe about Ricky. Some of them are actually true. If

386
00:18:29,078 --> 00:18:30,878
Speaker 3: you have time, go back and read his story. That

387
00:18:31,038 --> 00:18:33,478
Speaker 3: story I talked about in two thousand and three with Ricky.

388
00:18:33,518 --> 00:18:36,918
Speaker 3: I compiled a lot of the Ricky stories, the most

389
00:18:36,958 --> 00:18:39,518
Speaker 3: famous which is not true. I'd have to preface it.

390
00:18:39,518 --> 00:18:42,358
Speaker 3: It's not true. There was a story that he when

391
00:18:42,358 --> 00:18:45,158
Speaker 3: he joined the Mets, he was teammates with John Olerud

392
00:18:45,318 --> 00:18:48,958
Speaker 3: and John Olarud wear a batting helmet playing first base,

393
00:18:49,478 --> 00:18:51,958
Speaker 3: and Ricky said, wow, you know, I can't believe this,

394
00:18:52,278 --> 00:18:54,478
Speaker 3: and old Rood's like what he said, Well, when I

395
00:18:54,518 --> 00:18:56,558
Speaker 3: was with Seattle, I played with the guy who.

396
00:18:56,478 --> 00:18:58,958
Speaker 2: Wore a helmet. Of course that was ol rude. The

397
00:18:58,998 --> 00:19:00,198
Speaker 2: story was not true.

398
00:19:00,238 --> 00:19:02,758
Speaker 3: It was made up by the Mets training staff, but

399
00:19:02,878 --> 00:19:05,358
Speaker 3: everybody wanted to believe it was true. And with Ricky

400
00:19:05,398 --> 00:19:08,478
Speaker 3: it was entirely believable. But there's enough stories without having

401
00:19:08,478 --> 00:19:10,518
Speaker 3: to make them up. It is true that he wants

402
00:19:10,798 --> 00:19:15,318
Speaker 3: of just signing a huge contract with Oakland, the accounts

403
00:19:15,358 --> 00:19:17,598
Speaker 3: for the A's noticed that his one million dollars signing

404
00:19:17,638 --> 00:19:20,198
Speaker 3: bonus check had not been cash for quite some time,

405
00:19:20,238 --> 00:19:22,358
Speaker 3: and they they got concerned about it. They called up

406
00:19:22,398 --> 00:19:26,118
Speaker 3: Ricky said, is there a problem with the check? He said, oh, no,

407
00:19:26,238 --> 00:19:29,038
Speaker 3: there's no problem at all. It's in a frame hanging

408
00:19:29,038 --> 00:19:33,878
Speaker 3: on my wall right here. Or the time he's with

409
00:19:33,918 --> 00:19:36,158
Speaker 3: the Padres, he gets on the team bus and Tony

410
00:19:36,238 --> 00:19:38,318
Speaker 3: Gwynn is up front, and he sees Tony, he sees

411
00:19:38,398 --> 00:19:40,318
Speaker 3: Ricky walking towards the back. He says, Ricky, where are

412
00:19:40,318 --> 00:19:42,878
Speaker 3: you going? You sit up front here? You've got tenure

413
00:19:43,238 --> 00:19:45,758
Speaker 3: And Ricky said, ten I got a lot more than

414
00:19:45,758 --> 00:19:46,758
Speaker 3: ten years in this game.

415
00:19:49,198 --> 00:19:53,478
Speaker 4: It's so refreshing, isn't it. It's so so real, so real,

416
00:19:53,558 --> 00:19:56,198
Speaker 4: so funny. And I didn't know that there was a

417
00:19:56,398 --> 00:19:58,878
Speaker 4: urban legend about the ol Roote thing because I heard

418
00:19:58,918 --> 00:20:01,198
Speaker 4: that thing for years and the first time here he

419
00:20:01,358 --> 00:20:04,318
Speaker 4: just laughed. Because Ricky really didn't know names. He didn't

420
00:20:04,398 --> 00:20:07,358
Speaker 4: he uh, he didn't know names. He would he wouldn't

421
00:20:07,398 --> 00:20:10,198
Speaker 4: call you Joe, he wouldn't call me Joe. I'd just

422
00:20:10,198 --> 00:20:13,318
Speaker 4: start talking to you, you know. And that wasn't just

423
00:20:13,358 --> 00:20:15,838
Speaker 4: because I was with with with him briefly. He didn't

424
00:20:16,358 --> 00:20:20,518
Speaker 4: he didn't know names, and it was hysterical. Man, but

425
00:20:20,678 --> 00:20:23,558
Speaker 4: every all of his teammates did love him, but that

426
00:20:23,678 --> 00:20:25,798
Speaker 4: was that was one of his quirks. Man not very

427
00:20:25,798 --> 00:20:28,158
Speaker 4: good with first or last names.

428
00:20:28,438 --> 00:20:29,878
Speaker 2: Yeah, one quick story for you.

429
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Speaker 3: When he was with the Mets, the Mets in the

430
00:20:32,518 --> 00:20:35,118
Speaker 3: middle of May, maybe the end of May, made some

431
00:20:35,158 --> 00:20:37,718
Speaker 3: coaching staff changes and Tom Robson, the hitting coach, is

432
00:20:37,758 --> 00:20:40,078
Speaker 3: one of the guys they let go. Of course, the

433
00:20:40,118 --> 00:20:42,038
Speaker 3: writers go around the room asking guys, what do you

434
00:20:42,038 --> 00:20:44,638
Speaker 3: guys think of this move? And somebody asked, Ricky, what

435
00:20:44,638 --> 00:20:46,478
Speaker 3: do you think that you know the Mets are getting

436
00:20:46,558 --> 00:20:48,598
Speaker 3: rid of Robson, And He's like.

437
00:20:48,638 --> 00:20:51,678
Speaker 2: Robson who's that? Who was this hitting coach?

438
00:20:54,238 --> 00:20:56,238
Speaker 4: And that's no lie Man, That's absolutely true.

439
00:20:56,278 --> 00:20:58,598
Speaker 3: One of my favorites though, and this is it speaks

440
00:20:58,638 --> 00:21:00,878
Speaker 3: again to his heart of what kind of guy he was.

441
00:21:00,918 --> 00:21:03,918
Speaker 3: You know, he had three daughters, and certainly our hearts

442
00:21:03,998 --> 00:21:05,838
Speaker 3: go out to them. And I'm sure the whole family

443
00:21:05,958 --> 00:21:08,598
Speaker 3: just as devastated as much as we are by baseball fans.

444
00:21:08,638 --> 00:21:11,518
Speaker 3: I can't imagine where it's like a family member to

445
00:21:11,518 --> 00:21:15,318
Speaker 3: lose someone like Ricky Henderson. But you know, back in

446
00:21:15,358 --> 00:21:17,638
Speaker 3: the day, Joe, you got meal money the first day

447
00:21:17,638 --> 00:21:19,998
Speaker 3: of a road trip, right, and back then it was

448
00:21:20,038 --> 00:21:24,478
Speaker 3: probably you know, about seventy bucks a day and you

449
00:21:24,558 --> 00:21:26,518
Speaker 3: go on say a ten game trip. You know that's

450
00:21:26,558 --> 00:21:29,558
Speaker 3: not some small money. And the traveling secretary would hand

451
00:21:29,598 --> 00:21:31,798
Speaker 3: it to the players in cash. Yeah, there was actually

452
00:21:31,798 --> 00:21:34,398
Speaker 3: a thing called cash back in the day. So the

453
00:21:34,438 --> 00:21:35,798
Speaker 3: first day of the trip you had a lot of

454
00:21:35,838 --> 00:21:38,158
Speaker 3: It's like hitting the first race at the racetrack, right,

455
00:21:38,158 --> 00:21:39,798
Speaker 3: you got a lot of money in your pocket.

456
00:21:40,278 --> 00:21:41,838
Speaker 2: Well, Ricky would never spend that money.

457
00:21:41,918 --> 00:21:44,958
Speaker 3: He would take the envelope with the traveling money the

458
00:21:45,038 --> 00:21:49,238
Speaker 3: daily the per damn bring it home, put the envelope

459
00:21:49,238 --> 00:21:51,958
Speaker 3: in a shoe box, and when his daughters did well

460
00:21:51,998 --> 00:21:54,958
Speaker 3: at school, he played a game he called picket where

461
00:21:54,958 --> 00:21:57,398
Speaker 3: they could reach into the box and pick out any

462
00:21:57,518 --> 00:22:00,318
Speaker 3: envelope that was their reward for good grades, you know,

463
00:22:00,758 --> 00:22:04,758
Speaker 3: a good assignment well done. So you know, you didn't

464
00:22:04,798 --> 00:22:06,318
Speaker 3: know if you're going to get just a three day

465
00:22:06,318 --> 00:22:08,598
Speaker 3: trip or a ten day trip in that envelope.

466
00:22:09,278 --> 00:22:10,718
Speaker 2: That was Ricky Henderson too.

467
00:22:11,038 --> 00:22:13,398
Speaker 4: That's outstanding, And that was that was some big dough.

468
00:22:14,518 --> 00:22:16,638
Speaker 4: That was a big deal getting on the plane and

469
00:22:16,678 --> 00:22:17,958
Speaker 4: knowing how many days you're going to be on the

470
00:22:17,998 --> 00:22:19,598
Speaker 4: road and how much is going to be an that envelope.

471
00:22:19,598 --> 00:22:21,478
Speaker 4: Because when you first start out in the big leagues

472
00:22:22,038 --> 00:22:25,278
Speaker 4: as a coach, like I did you know I got

473
00:22:25,398 --> 00:22:27,238
Speaker 4: zero raised going from the minor leagues that the big

474
00:22:27,318 --> 00:22:29,678
Speaker 4: leagues as a coach, you're living in two cities, you

475
00:22:29,798 --> 00:22:32,038
Speaker 4: got a family, So that was the kind of money

476
00:22:32,118 --> 00:22:36,038
Speaker 4: that money was, like for your clubhouse dues, you you

477
00:22:36,118 --> 00:22:38,038
Speaker 4: would save as much of that as you can't use

478
00:22:38,078 --> 00:22:40,358
Speaker 4: it at home because you always ate at the clubhouse,

479
00:22:40,358 --> 00:22:43,918
Speaker 4: but you would pay clubhouse dues save that dough. It

480
00:22:43,958 --> 00:22:46,158
Speaker 4: was not for me, was not to be spent furvously,

481
00:22:46,198 --> 00:22:48,558
Speaker 4: and that perviously. But that was not just me. There's

482
00:22:48,558 --> 00:22:51,078
Speaker 4: a lot of coaches for years that lived that way.

483
00:22:51,278 --> 00:22:55,878
Speaker 4: Since it's been changed the way how much is given

484
00:22:55,958 --> 00:22:58,038
Speaker 4: meal money wise, and I was distributed, but there was

485
00:22:58,078 --> 00:23:01,118
Speaker 4: a time man that was a really important source of

486
00:23:01,118 --> 00:23:04,238
Speaker 4: income for a major league coach. But you made me

487
00:23:04,278 --> 00:23:07,318
Speaker 4: smile there because I that's that's such a wonderful story.

488
00:23:07,838 --> 00:23:11,198
Speaker 4: And I saw a picture or a video of recently,

489
00:23:11,238 --> 00:23:13,158
Speaker 4: I guess where his daughter throughout the first pitch, and

490
00:23:13,238 --> 00:23:15,998
Speaker 4: Ricky Cotty was so pleased, and I'm thinking about her

491
00:23:16,038 --> 00:23:18,078
Speaker 4: in that moment. That's that's that's pretty special.

492
00:23:18,518 --> 00:23:21,398
Speaker 3: Yeah, our hearts go out to the Henderson family, everybody

493
00:23:21,398 --> 00:23:24,118
Speaker 3: who was around Ricky Henderson, even if you weren't a

494
00:23:24,158 --> 00:23:25,198
Speaker 3: fan of Ricky Henderson.

495
00:23:25,278 --> 00:23:26,638
Speaker 2: It's a major loss.

496
00:23:27,158 --> 00:23:29,838
Speaker 3: And you know, we wish the family all the best

497
00:23:29,878 --> 00:23:33,758
Speaker 3: and and and everybody around baseball should be thankful that

498
00:23:33,958 --> 00:23:36,238
Speaker 3: we got to see someone play like again. I say,

499
00:23:36,318 --> 00:23:38,358
Speaker 3: Joe one of the best players I've ever seen, an

500
00:23:38,358 --> 00:23:40,198
Speaker 3: all time great, all time good person.

501
00:23:40,398 --> 00:23:40,758
Speaker 4: Agreed.

502
00:23:40,998 --> 00:23:45,798
Speaker 3: In the meantime, Joe, you mentioned something about the colorful

503
00:23:45,998 --> 00:23:49,718
Speaker 3: nature of that era and the players and the personalities.

504
00:23:50,358 --> 00:23:52,918
Speaker 3: I want to dive into that a little more about

505
00:23:53,518 --> 00:23:55,398
Speaker 3: what we've lost and maybe.

506
00:23:55,198 --> 00:23:57,678
Speaker 2: What's not coming back. We'll do that right after this.

507
00:24:09,278 --> 00:24:12,998
Speaker 3: So, Joe, I mentioned that nineteen eighty nine Okland A's

508
00:24:13,078 --> 00:24:17,038
Speaker 3: team World Series winning team. On that team, they had

509
00:24:17,118 --> 00:24:23,158
Speaker 3: not just Ricky Henderson, Dave Parker, Dave Henderson, Jose Canseco,

510
00:24:23,918 --> 00:24:29,678
Speaker 3: Tony Phillips, Dave Stewart, Dennis Secresley. I mean, how about

511
00:24:29,678 --> 00:24:32,078
Speaker 3: the characters on that team, Joe. And that was just

512
00:24:32,118 --> 00:24:34,518
Speaker 3: one team out of thirty. It was not unusual, but

513
00:24:34,598 --> 00:24:36,158
Speaker 3: maybe a little more talent.

514
00:24:36,518 --> 00:24:37,518
Speaker 2: But there were.

515
00:24:37,398 --> 00:24:41,518
Speaker 3: Guys you needed to pay attention to on personality alone, No, Lie.

516
00:24:41,398 --> 00:24:43,278
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean I was thinking about that. Also.

517
00:24:43,318 --> 00:24:45,798
Speaker 4: We were talking in that first segment about Ricky specifically,

518
00:24:45,798 --> 00:24:47,838
Speaker 4: but at Tony Phillips was a really good friend of mine.

519
00:24:47,878 --> 00:24:51,478
Speaker 4: Tony called him Anthony. Anthony came to the Angels. I

520
00:24:51,518 --> 00:24:53,078
Speaker 4: worked with him a lot because I was the outfield

521
00:24:53,118 --> 00:24:56,558
Speaker 4: coach at the time, and he left us way too soon. Also,

522
00:24:57,158 --> 00:24:59,958
Speaker 4: David Parker just recently elected to the Hall of Fame.

523
00:25:00,958 --> 00:25:05,158
Speaker 4: Parkway was kind of like my personal bodyguard when I

524
00:25:05,198 --> 00:25:06,758
Speaker 4: first started out as a coach in the big leagues

525
00:25:06,798 --> 00:25:09,518
Speaker 4: with the Angels. Love the guy absolutely loved the guy

526
00:25:09,958 --> 00:25:12,598
Speaker 4: Dave Stewart. For those who've never had a chance to

527
00:25:12,638 --> 00:25:15,318
Speaker 4: talk to Dave Stuart, what a wonderful human being and

528
00:25:16,238 --> 00:25:19,198
Speaker 4: really just he's one of those sincere guys. When you

529
00:25:19,238 --> 00:25:21,118
Speaker 4: talk to me, you just feel like you've known him forever.

530
00:25:21,678 --> 00:25:24,358
Speaker 4: Achrisley X always, these these were like they were there.

531
00:25:24,918 --> 00:25:27,318
Speaker 4: They were the kind of almost a last bashion of

532
00:25:27,398 --> 00:25:29,358
Speaker 4: larger than life. I mean, I think, you know the Yankees,

533
00:25:29,358 --> 00:25:32,198
Speaker 4: you can get into that right up until like twenty

534
00:25:32,278 --> 00:25:35,198
Speaker 4: and tennish, but then it starts taking a different look

535
00:25:35,318 --> 00:25:39,358
Speaker 4: or appearances based on the way the game is organized

536
00:25:39,358 --> 00:25:41,518
Speaker 4: and constructed right now. But these guys back then, man,

537
00:25:41,558 --> 00:25:45,398
Speaker 4: that was it. I mean, these guys they played, they

538
00:25:45,438 --> 00:25:50,118
Speaker 4: played hard, they were very there was a way to

539
00:25:50,158 --> 00:25:51,798
Speaker 4: play the game, and they all passed it along to

540
00:25:51,838 --> 00:25:56,278
Speaker 4: one another. And there was a strong personality about these people.

541
00:25:56,318 --> 00:25:59,478
Speaker 4: There was there was nothing subjugated, nobody could really you know,

542
00:25:59,638 --> 00:26:02,878
Speaker 4: they had Tony Lewis, says their manager, and nevertheless they

543
00:26:02,918 --> 00:26:06,638
Speaker 4: were still these guys. And you know, Tony's pretty strong

544
00:26:06,718 --> 00:26:11,118
Speaker 4: personality himself. So it was wonderful to watch all this

545
00:26:11,278 --> 00:26:15,598
Speaker 4: and to see these guys and the allure of these people. Again,

546
00:26:15,638 --> 00:26:18,478
Speaker 4: I used the word charismatic. I thought our twenty sixteen

547
00:26:18,518 --> 00:26:21,358
Speaker 4: Cubs had a lot of charisma about him. That was

548
00:26:21,478 --> 00:26:25,038
Speaker 4: one of my favorite parts about managing that group was

549
00:26:25,078 --> 00:26:28,798
Speaker 4: the personalities and as well as the talent. I love

550
00:26:28,878 --> 00:26:32,398
Speaker 4: that part about that group that you're describing the A's

551
00:26:32,438 --> 00:26:35,078
Speaker 4: and the eighties. You go through almost every team and

552
00:26:35,438 --> 00:26:37,118
Speaker 4: you start naming the names and you start you start

553
00:26:37,158 --> 00:26:40,038
Speaker 4: smiling because there was a lot of that. There was

554
00:26:40,558 --> 00:26:45,038
Speaker 4: different methods applied by each organization. They weren't It wasn't

555
00:26:45,078 --> 00:26:48,158
Speaker 4: so homogenized in regards to the way people play the

556
00:26:48,198 --> 00:26:53,158
Speaker 4: game then as now. There was distinctly different ways to

557
00:26:53,318 --> 00:26:56,558
Speaker 4: prepare for different teams based on what they did well,

558
00:26:56,638 --> 00:26:59,678
Speaker 4: what they highlighted, and you talk about Ricky with the

559
00:26:59,678 --> 00:27:03,078
Speaker 4: base dealing whatever, and then eventually they morphed into the

560
00:27:03,158 --> 00:27:06,038
Speaker 4: moneyball a were they were just so stationed in the

561
00:27:06,118 --> 00:27:08,238
Speaker 4: station you didn't even have to worry about something like that.

562
00:27:08,678 --> 00:27:11,518
Speaker 4: But there was a uniqueness about each group that had

563
00:27:11,558 --> 00:27:13,958
Speaker 4: to be paid attention to, and when you went to

564
00:27:13,958 --> 00:27:17,758
Speaker 4: a different played against a different team, you thought about that.

565
00:27:17,958 --> 00:27:19,918
Speaker 4: And the last point, without getting too long, when it

566
00:27:20,038 --> 00:27:23,558
Speaker 4: is were the managers because at that point, the manager

567
00:27:23,598 --> 00:27:27,438
Speaker 4: pretty much dictated how this was going to unfold, So

568
00:27:27,558 --> 00:27:29,998
Speaker 4: you had to really understand where the manager came from

569
00:27:30,078 --> 00:27:32,358
Speaker 4: and what he would think like. And for me, as

570
00:27:32,438 --> 00:27:35,438
Speaker 4: the bench coach that did a lot of the advanced scouting,

571
00:27:35,598 --> 00:27:38,238
Speaker 4: it was with the advanced got a lot at that point.

572
00:27:38,678 --> 00:27:41,038
Speaker 4: If you got a new manager, I could take everything

573
00:27:41,078 --> 00:27:44,198
Speaker 4: I just had. Scouting wasn't just throw it in the

574
00:27:44,238 --> 00:27:46,998
Speaker 4: garbage camp. Other than like maybe some individual things about

575
00:27:47,038 --> 00:27:48,918
Speaker 4: pictures to the play times of the play at whatever,

576
00:27:49,278 --> 00:27:51,078
Speaker 4: but methods and how the game was going to be

577
00:27:51,198 --> 00:27:54,478
Speaker 4: operator or constructed was completely different from manager to manager.

578
00:27:54,558 --> 00:27:56,558
Speaker 4: So there was there was a lot of different things

579
00:27:56,558 --> 00:27:59,358
Speaker 4: to pay attention to that I found really interesting and

580
00:27:59,998 --> 00:28:04,558
Speaker 4: quite honestly just fascinating and really kept you involved because

581
00:28:04,918 --> 00:28:07,798
Speaker 4: each group presented different issues, different problems, different ways to

582
00:28:07,838 --> 00:28:08,518
Speaker 4: prepare for them.

583
00:28:08,998 --> 00:28:11,118
Speaker 3: Well, Joe, let's talk about that one word that really

584
00:28:11,158 --> 00:28:14,638
Speaker 3: caught my attention to use. That's personality, Because when we

585
00:28:14,678 --> 00:28:17,998
Speaker 3: talk about someone like a Ricky Henderson, we don't divorce

586
00:28:18,038 --> 00:28:22,118
Speaker 3: the personality from the talent. It's almost his signature as

587
00:28:22,198 --> 00:28:24,238
Speaker 3: much as it is his ability to steal basis is

588
00:28:24,278 --> 00:28:27,078
Speaker 3: the fact that his personality was allowed to flourish in

589
00:28:27,118 --> 00:28:31,118
Speaker 3: this game, and that was not unusual in that era. Now,

590
00:28:31,198 --> 00:28:33,158
Speaker 3: think about I'm going to give you some names, Joe,

591
00:28:33,238 --> 00:28:36,078
Speaker 3: are the people in baseball that we have lost this year,

592
00:28:36,278 --> 00:28:39,478
Speaker 3: and use the phrase when you think about them, Ricky Henderson,

593
00:28:39,478 --> 00:28:42,478
Speaker 3: for instance, it puts a smile on your face. Think

594
00:28:42,478 --> 00:28:49,078
Speaker 3: about these names, Orlando Cepaida cha Cha, Ricky Henderson, Whitey Herzog,

595
00:28:49,958 --> 00:28:58,438
Speaker 3: Willie Mays, Rocky Colovido, Ricocarti, Pete Rose, Luis Tiant from

596
00:28:58,518 --> 00:29:03,438
Speaker 3: Nando Valezuela. I mean, it's just incredible, Joe, that you

597
00:29:03,478 --> 00:29:05,758
Speaker 3: mentioned every one of those names, and you're probably in

598
00:29:05,798 --> 00:29:08,318
Speaker 3: your mind's eye picturing the way they played, the smile

599
00:29:08,358 --> 00:29:10,998
Speaker 3: on their face, the things that they did that made

600
00:29:10,998 --> 00:29:11,558
Speaker 3: you smile.

601
00:29:12,478 --> 00:29:14,518
Speaker 2: I don't see that happening in today's game.

602
00:29:15,038 --> 00:29:17,638
Speaker 3: The personalities, I can't believe they're not there, but they're

603
00:29:17,678 --> 00:29:20,678
Speaker 3: not allowed to flourish in the game that we have today.

604
00:29:21,238 --> 00:29:25,278
Speaker 3: Do you see that happening that you know? Letting You

605
00:29:25,638 --> 00:29:27,718
Speaker 3: like to always say, don't get in the way of greatness,

606
00:29:27,758 --> 00:29:30,358
Speaker 3: So sometimes don't get in the way of personality either.

607
00:29:30,478 --> 00:29:32,878
Speaker 3: We tend to tamp it down in the game of baseball.

608
00:29:33,438 --> 00:29:36,318
Speaker 4: Personality and greatness are probably synonymous terms. And as you're

609
00:29:36,358 --> 00:29:38,278
Speaker 4: naming all those names, but I'm thinking to myself, wow,

610
00:29:38,518 --> 00:29:40,598
Speaker 4: I got to know a lot of these people. Cha

611
00:29:40,718 --> 00:29:43,358
Speaker 4: Cha Orlando Cepaida was my favorite hitter in the sixties.

612
00:29:43,438 --> 00:29:46,238
Speaker 4: Him and Dick Allen right after that, And actually I

613
00:29:46,278 --> 00:29:49,238
Speaker 4: took my playground up, but they won a championship here

614
00:29:49,278 --> 00:29:52,358
Speaker 4: when I was thirteen or something, and the standard speaker

615
00:29:52,358 --> 00:29:54,718
Speaker 4: took a photograph when the guy came to get my name,

616
00:29:54,718 --> 00:29:57,918
Speaker 4: My name was Joey Chascha. Madden actually put that in

617
00:29:57,998 --> 00:30:01,838
Speaker 4: the in the newspaper. But you know, you're preaching at

618
00:30:01,878 --> 00:30:03,358
Speaker 4: the choir with that, and you know that, I mean,

619
00:30:04,638 --> 00:30:08,358
Speaker 4: we're kind of subjugating our personalities for the sake of

620
00:30:08,398 --> 00:30:12,358
Speaker 4: sameness or this one method of doing things. And if

621
00:30:12,358 --> 00:30:16,118
Speaker 4: you're not, if you don't conform or fit into this method,

622
00:30:16,558 --> 00:30:19,798
Speaker 4: you're kind of like ostracizing or not wanted in a way.

623
00:30:19,838 --> 00:30:21,478
Speaker 4: And we're going to move on to somebody that will

624
00:30:22,358 --> 00:30:25,758
Speaker 4: conform in a sense. And I think a lot of

625
00:30:25,758 --> 00:30:29,798
Speaker 4: it has to do with the way information is distributed

626
00:30:30,358 --> 00:30:33,118
Speaker 4: and the fact that the players back then were permitted

627
00:30:33,158 --> 00:30:35,758
Speaker 4: to think for themselves and do a lot of things

628
00:30:35,838 --> 00:30:39,038
Speaker 4: of their own volition or ways, whether it was like

629
00:30:39,078 --> 00:30:41,358
Speaker 4: their batting stands, out of hit pictures, throwing the ball.

630
00:30:41,798 --> 00:30:44,398
Speaker 4: The influence of the coaches and the manager was so

631
00:30:44,558 --> 00:30:48,718
Speaker 4: much more prominent. It's compared to now, where the influencers

632
00:30:48,718 --> 00:30:54,558
Speaker 4: are different. The influencer are more constructed technologically, and the mind,

633
00:30:55,118 --> 00:30:58,798
Speaker 4: the personality, the charismatic component of the individual is not

634
00:30:58,878 --> 00:31:01,278
Speaker 4: really sought after as nearly as much as it had.

635
00:31:01,638 --> 00:31:03,558
Speaker 4: Whitey hers All to me, like you said his name,

636
00:31:03,918 --> 00:31:05,838
Speaker 4: I had a photograph take with him. I have it

637
00:31:05,918 --> 00:31:08,678
Speaker 4: on my on file on the wall here in one

638
00:31:08,678 --> 00:31:11,238
Speaker 4: of my Skylight my Skylight calendar, and it pops up,

639
00:31:11,638 --> 00:31:14,638
Speaker 4: and you think about Whitey Herzog and what he meant

640
00:31:14,678 --> 00:31:16,718
Speaker 4: to the city of Saint Louis and how he transformed

641
00:31:16,718 --> 00:31:20,678
Speaker 4: that organization and the style of play that the Cardinals represented.

642
00:31:20,758 --> 00:31:24,558
Speaker 4: While white he was the manager there unique successful and

643
00:31:24,638 --> 00:31:27,718
Speaker 4: the players that he got, and he had his structure

644
00:31:27,878 --> 00:31:30,558
Speaker 4: and he had his way of doing things, but never

645
00:31:30,838 --> 00:31:32,558
Speaker 4: got in the way of an Ozzy Smith or a

646
00:31:32,598 --> 00:31:36,398
Speaker 4: George Henrik or a Tommy Hurr or Keith R. Nanis

647
00:31:36,398 --> 00:31:38,398
Speaker 4: and all these dudes they grew up to be. It's

648
00:31:38,398 --> 00:31:40,838
Speaker 4: almost like you're talking about creating your own brand. These

649
00:31:40,838 --> 00:31:43,958
Speaker 4: people were their own brand based on their abilities and

650
00:31:43,998 --> 00:31:46,998
Speaker 4: who they were. And you listen, they weren't. Nobody was perfect, man.

651
00:31:47,038 --> 00:31:48,398
Speaker 4: There was a lot of stuff going on there that

652
00:31:48,478 --> 00:31:51,998
Speaker 4: was less than perfect as a human being, but nevertheless

653
00:31:51,998 --> 00:31:55,678
Speaker 4: interesting and kept your eyes glued to it. Today, you know,

654
00:31:55,718 --> 00:31:59,118
Speaker 4: with the scrutiny involved, it's you know, it's hard. It's

655
00:31:59,118 --> 00:32:01,438
Speaker 4: hard for guys to cut loose. It's hard for guys

656
00:32:01,478 --> 00:32:03,718
Speaker 4: to go out at night. It's hard for guys to

657
00:32:03,718 --> 00:32:07,478
Speaker 4: do maybe pursue things that we're pursued in the past

658
00:32:07,518 --> 00:32:10,598
Speaker 4: that sometimes even just as a group of guys getting

659
00:32:10,598 --> 00:32:12,998
Speaker 4: together after a game going out, maybe just turn it loose,

660
00:32:13,038 --> 00:32:15,958
Speaker 4: having a little fun that doesn't happen anymore. And who

661
00:32:15,998 --> 00:32:19,238
Speaker 4: knows to what extent that that leads to this same

662
00:32:19,958 --> 00:32:24,998
Speaker 4: method of conformity that is boring. Quite frankly, he could

663
00:32:24,998 --> 00:32:27,558
Speaker 4: be very boring. So yeah, the genie's never going back

664
00:32:27,558 --> 00:32:29,558
Speaker 4: into bottle. There's too many things that have come down

665
00:32:29,598 --> 00:32:33,758
Speaker 4: the road that create this method, and everybody believes this

666
00:32:33,838 --> 00:32:35,758
Speaker 4: is the right way to do things right now, And

667
00:32:35,838 --> 00:32:39,478
Speaker 4: for my perspective, there's a lot of right, yes, absolutely,

668
00:32:39,518 --> 00:32:42,758
Speaker 4: but one thing that's wrong is if we talk about it,

669
00:32:42,798 --> 00:32:46,238
Speaker 4: don't forget the heartbeat, really glorify the individual, permit the

670
00:32:46,278 --> 00:32:50,638
Speaker 4: individual to flourish, don't always try to control the methods involved.

671
00:32:50,678 --> 00:32:53,438
Speaker 4: Let let whomever go out there and make some mistakes,

672
00:32:53,438 --> 00:32:55,438
Speaker 4: go and make some mistakes, screw it up a little bit,

673
00:32:55,518 --> 00:32:58,758
Speaker 4: but do it based on experience and wisdom and understanding

674
00:32:58,758 --> 00:33:01,638
Speaker 4: what you're trying to get done here. So, yeah, it's

675
00:33:01,718 --> 00:33:05,038
Speaker 4: it's hard. It's almost impossible to imagine and a group

676
00:33:05,078 --> 00:33:09,238
Speaker 4: of Parker Phillips, Stewart both Henderson's. I mean, it's not

677
00:33:10,198 --> 00:33:11,918
Speaker 4: You're right, it's probably a thing of the past. And

678
00:33:11,958 --> 00:33:14,758
Speaker 4: that's too bad. That's too bad. Right, you could start

679
00:33:14,798 --> 00:33:16,798
Speaker 4: getting into rock and roll bands and sounds and all

680
00:33:16,878 --> 00:33:19,318
Speaker 4: that stuff where things are really dictated to the point

681
00:33:19,638 --> 00:33:22,478
Speaker 4: everything sounds and looks the same anywhere, cars, same color.

682
00:33:22,878 --> 00:33:24,758
Speaker 4: Get me going, man, you got me going, because I

683
00:33:25,358 --> 00:33:30,238
Speaker 4: truly agree with that. And it's too bad because Ricky

684
00:33:30,318 --> 00:33:34,638
Speaker 4: Henderson in today's world coming up probably would not have

685
00:33:34,638 --> 00:33:36,918
Speaker 4: been permitted to be Ricky Henderson.

686
00:33:37,158 --> 00:33:38,158
Speaker 2: I think that's right, Joe.

687
00:33:38,238 --> 00:33:39,958
Speaker 3: I mean, just look around the game today and you

688
00:33:40,038 --> 00:33:42,398
Speaker 3: tell me where are the personalities?

689
00:33:43,038 --> 00:33:43,358
Speaker 4: Yeah?

690
00:33:43,438 --> 00:33:45,958
Speaker 2: Really, I mean you know, I write for a living.

691
00:33:46,118 --> 00:33:48,038
Speaker 3: It's hard for me to come up with names, and

692
00:33:48,078 --> 00:33:50,198
Speaker 3: I think, well, people really need to know more about

693
00:33:50,198 --> 00:33:54,478
Speaker 3: this guy who's got such a different personality. I think

694
00:33:54,518 --> 00:33:57,638
Speaker 3: the game is so process oriented in terms of the

695
00:33:57,678 --> 00:34:00,158
Speaker 3: structure of the game, how it's taught and played, that

696
00:34:00,278 --> 00:34:03,198
Speaker 3: you don't have pictures like Fernando Vealezuela and Luis Tian

697
00:34:03,318 --> 00:34:06,878
Speaker 3: being able to lance. That's part of it. Listen, things

698
00:34:06,878 --> 00:34:09,278
Speaker 3: of the world changed when they were able to put

699
00:34:09,398 --> 00:34:12,078
Speaker 3: cameras on cell phones, right, and that changed a lot

700
00:34:12,078 --> 00:34:15,318
Speaker 3: of behaviors. A question about that, and for the most part,

701
00:34:15,358 --> 00:34:18,278
Speaker 3: for the better, I would think. But now you need

702
00:34:18,318 --> 00:34:21,598
Speaker 3: to toe the line. People who now are seen as outliers.

703
00:34:22,118 --> 00:34:24,878
Speaker 3: It's really not worth their time to be an outlier.

704
00:34:24,918 --> 00:34:27,078
Speaker 3: Now to show a lot of personality, you get called

705
00:34:27,118 --> 00:34:29,598
Speaker 3: on who does he think he is? I'm talking about

706
00:34:29,598 --> 00:34:31,238
Speaker 3: the way the game is covered, or at least the

707
00:34:31,238 --> 00:34:34,238
Speaker 3: way it's administered, even within a clubhouse. So the easy

708
00:34:34,278 --> 00:34:36,718
Speaker 3: thing to do is stick to the process, toe the line,

709
00:34:37,158 --> 00:34:39,518
Speaker 3: and there is a sameness about it. I just I

710
00:34:39,558 --> 00:34:41,318
Speaker 3: don't believe people are that much different.

711
00:34:41,398 --> 00:34:41,638
Speaker 2: Joe.

712
00:34:41,678 --> 00:34:44,558
Speaker 3: But in terms of looking at personalities in the game,

713
00:34:44,598 --> 00:34:48,638
Speaker 3: of baseball specifically, there's not nearly as many coal for

714
00:34:48,958 --> 00:34:51,558
Speaker 3: personalities as there were a decade or generation ago.

715
00:34:52,278 --> 00:34:55,278
Speaker 4: The scrutiny involved outside of even just a general media,

716
00:34:55,358 --> 00:34:59,438
Speaker 4: like the media has really evolved into or devolved into everybody.

717
00:34:59,558 --> 00:35:03,438
Speaker 4: I mean, through social media, everybody becomes a reporter a journalist,

718
00:35:04,198 --> 00:35:07,038
Speaker 4: just like you said, by having a cell phone or

719
00:35:07,078 --> 00:35:10,878
Speaker 4: the ability to uh blog or even create your own podcast.

720
00:35:10,958 --> 00:35:14,998
Speaker 4: Everybody is pretty much their own brand of journalism these days.

721
00:35:15,038 --> 00:35:17,398
Speaker 4: And it's it's slowly, you know, I've talked about that

722
00:35:17,518 --> 00:35:20,478
Speaker 4: years ago, where the amateurs are taken over for the professionals,

723
00:35:20,838 --> 00:35:24,318
Speaker 4: and it's true. I mean, there's there's so many different

724
00:35:24,998 --> 00:35:28,158
Speaker 4: venues items out there where news is transmitted now that

725
00:35:28,198 --> 00:35:31,438
Speaker 4: never existed before, and so there's so many people that

726
00:35:31,518 --> 00:35:33,438
Speaker 4: want to make a name for themselves. So they could

727
00:35:33,518 --> 00:35:36,518
Speaker 4: just slam catch somebody out at night having a good

728
00:35:36,518 --> 00:35:39,998
Speaker 4: time via the cell phone. And you know, you can

729
00:35:40,038 --> 00:35:41,758
Speaker 4: make that argument that there's a lot of things that

730
00:35:41,758 --> 00:35:44,838
Speaker 4: it's done that has made the world better, I guess,

731
00:35:45,038 --> 00:35:49,638
Speaker 4: But then again, to really hinder the development of somebody's

732
00:35:49,678 --> 00:35:52,878
Speaker 4: personality or there there you talk about you know, kids

733
00:35:52,878 --> 00:35:55,638
Speaker 4: in college or they never leave their dorms. They just

734
00:35:55,678 --> 00:35:58,598
Speaker 4: can't communicate via text. There's never eye to eye anymore,

735
00:35:58,838 --> 00:36:02,478
Speaker 4: eyeball to eyeball, there's there this the social component of

736
00:36:02,478 --> 00:36:05,518
Speaker 4: of the way kids go up today, it is very different.

737
00:36:06,118 --> 00:36:08,918
Speaker 4: Nobody has to be in the same room with anybody anymore,

738
00:36:08,918 --> 00:36:11,958
Speaker 4: and thus you take on a different form of courage

739
00:36:12,038 --> 00:36:15,878
Speaker 4: or whatever, just by being able to communicate without having

740
00:36:15,918 --> 00:36:19,438
Speaker 4: to be in somebody's presence, where what you say and

741
00:36:19,478 --> 00:36:22,278
Speaker 4: how you say it may we'll come across differently as

742
00:36:22,278 --> 00:36:24,198
Speaker 4: opposed to you had to say it to somebody face

743
00:36:24,238 --> 00:36:27,918
Speaker 4: to face, where that is not even encouraged or done anymore.

744
00:36:27,958 --> 00:36:30,638
Speaker 4: So yeah, listen again, Like I said, I guess this

745
00:36:30,798 --> 00:36:33,038
Speaker 4: is like dating me a bit right now, just by

746
00:36:33,078 --> 00:36:35,198
Speaker 4: what I'm saying. But I don't get it. I don't

747
00:36:35,238 --> 00:36:39,398
Speaker 4: get that where we are encourage people to communicate via

748
00:36:39,758 --> 00:36:44,118
Speaker 4: technology as opposed to the face to face communication, even

749
00:36:44,838 --> 00:36:49,158
Speaker 4: remote working as opposed to reporting to offices anymore thanks

750
00:36:49,198 --> 00:36:52,558
Speaker 4: to that nature, I mean, it just encourages a more

751
00:36:52,598 --> 00:36:57,878
Speaker 4: of a sterile environment. And I'd love to see somehow

752
00:36:58,878 --> 00:37:01,278
Speaker 4: things get back a bit. But like we're talking about,

753
00:37:01,358 --> 00:37:03,598
Speaker 4: it's pretty much in this direction. So you have to

754
00:37:03,638 --> 00:37:05,118
Speaker 4: learn how to adapt and grow from here.

755
00:37:05,438 --> 00:37:07,158
Speaker 3: Joe, I can't believe it, but you just gave me

756
00:37:07,238 --> 00:37:10,318
Speaker 3: the perfect transition to the word of the year.

757
00:37:10,438 --> 00:37:12,478
Speaker 2: I'm not sure you even heard what the word.

758
00:37:12,238 --> 00:37:15,478
Speaker 3: Of the year is, but even without knowing it, you

759
00:37:15,638 --> 00:37:17,718
Speaker 3: just gave me the perfect setup for it. We will

760
00:37:17,838 --> 00:37:33,398
Speaker 3: reveal the word of the year right after this. Welcome

761
00:37:33,398 --> 00:37:35,958
Speaker 3: Back to the Book of Joe podcast. It's Tom Berducci

762
00:37:36,038 --> 00:37:39,158
Speaker 3: and Joe Madden back with you. And I mentioned the

763
00:37:39,198 --> 00:37:42,318
Speaker 3: word of the year. This was chosen by the Oxford Press.

764
00:37:43,078 --> 00:37:45,958
Speaker 3: And it's actually a word I had not heard, Joe.

765
00:37:45,998 --> 00:37:48,118
Speaker 3: And it's actually not even one word. It's two words.

766
00:37:48,758 --> 00:37:52,878
Speaker 3: And the word is brain rot. Do you know what

767
00:37:52,998 --> 00:37:53,838
Speaker 3: brain rot is?

768
00:37:54,358 --> 00:37:55,838
Speaker 4: That's round us all the time.

769
00:37:58,038 --> 00:38:00,158
Speaker 2: You're familiar with it, you recognized well.

770
00:38:00,198 --> 00:38:03,238
Speaker 4: I mean, I can't wait to hear the exact definition.

771
00:38:03,358 --> 00:38:05,838
Speaker 4: But God, if you're not challenged to use it, and

772
00:38:06,358 --> 00:38:11,478
Speaker 4: if you're going to permit artificial intelligence to think for you,

773
00:38:12,398 --> 00:38:15,158
Speaker 4: it should be the end of creative thinking in a sense,

774
00:38:15,238 --> 00:38:18,598
Speaker 4: by the fact that we're permitting tech and things and

775
00:38:19,438 --> 00:38:22,238
Speaker 4: machines to do our thinking for us. I mean it

776
00:38:22,358 --> 00:38:24,318
Speaker 4: has to have something to do with that.

777
00:38:24,718 --> 00:38:25,878
Speaker 2: You're one hundred percent right.

778
00:38:25,918 --> 00:38:27,838
Speaker 3: I mean think of your brain as a muscle, right,

779
00:38:28,358 --> 00:38:32,158
Speaker 3: Basically we have stopped using it. So brain is essentially

780
00:38:32,238 --> 00:38:37,518
Speaker 3: the over consumption of material, especially online on the Internet,

781
00:38:37,998 --> 00:38:43,038
Speaker 3: that is just trivial and meaningless, and the overconsumption of

782
00:38:43,078 --> 00:38:46,078
Speaker 3: that it literally does rewire your brain.

783
00:38:46,438 --> 00:38:47,558
Speaker 2: There's no question about that.

784
00:38:47,638 --> 00:38:52,278
Speaker 3: If you use your brain creatively, you strengthen your boundaries,

785
00:38:52,318 --> 00:38:55,998
Speaker 3: your imagination, your intellect, your vocabulary, et cetera, et cetera.

786
00:38:56,118 --> 00:38:59,198
Speaker 3: The opposite is true too. And this is the word

787
00:38:59,278 --> 00:39:01,758
Speaker 3: now that captures what is going on here. It's called

788
00:39:01,878 --> 00:39:05,318
Speaker 3: brain rot where your brain maybe not literally rotting, but

789
00:39:05,478 --> 00:39:08,238
Speaker 3: think of it as rotting because you're wasting too much

790
00:39:08,278 --> 00:39:12,558
Speaker 3: time on stuff that has no value whatsoever. It's like

791
00:39:12,638 --> 00:39:15,918
Speaker 3: having a steady diet of potato chips. There is no

792
00:39:16,238 --> 00:39:19,118
Speaker 3: nutritional value in what you are consuming.

793
00:39:19,878 --> 00:39:22,158
Speaker 4: Okay, I yesed to. I had a conversation with Wendy

794
00:39:22,198 --> 00:39:29,398
Speaker 4: about that. Specifically, I was a voracious reader for so

795
00:39:29,518 --> 00:39:34,758
Speaker 4: many years. I missed that version of me so much. Okay,

796
00:39:34,758 --> 00:39:36,678
Speaker 4: then why don't you just sit down and read a book? Okay?

797
00:39:37,078 --> 00:39:43,438
Speaker 4: Because I have been consumed by all these easy ways

798
00:39:43,558 --> 00:39:48,838
Speaker 4: to get received maintain ascertain whether it's Netflix or Prime

799
00:39:48,918 --> 00:39:54,078
Speaker 4: Video or just stations in general reading things online. I'm

800
00:39:54,118 --> 00:39:56,878
Speaker 4: constantly reading, but I'm not reading novels anymore. I'm not

801
00:39:56,878 --> 00:39:59,438
Speaker 4: reading books. I'm not reading some really good stuff that

802
00:39:59,678 --> 00:40:02,878
Speaker 4: formulated my mind. I can't even imagine. I don't think

803
00:40:02,918 --> 00:40:04,838
Speaker 4: I would have been nearly a six ussils has turned

804
00:40:04,838 --> 00:40:08,198
Speaker 4: out had I not got the reading habit from my

805
00:40:08,278 --> 00:40:10,958
Speaker 4: uncle Chuck in nineteen seventy four or five, whatever that was,

806
00:40:11,518 --> 00:40:14,638
Speaker 4: when he gave me the book Centennial by James Mitchener

807
00:40:14,638 --> 00:40:17,638
Speaker 4: and said I needed to read this. So I did,

808
00:40:18,078 --> 00:40:20,078
Speaker 4: and God that I fall in love. I fell in

809
00:40:20,078 --> 00:40:22,238
Speaker 4: love with James Mitchener. At that point I started reading

810
00:40:22,238 --> 00:40:26,358
Speaker 4: all Mitchener. Then I branched out to that started delving

811
00:40:26,398 --> 00:40:29,598
Speaker 4: into other guys that I would just absolutely destroy every

812
00:40:29,598 --> 00:40:32,398
Speaker 4: book that they had, and it just went on and

813
00:40:32,438 --> 00:40:35,358
Speaker 4: on until you get to the point where the advent

814
00:40:35,518 --> 00:40:38,878
Speaker 4: of screaming TV and getting whatever you want whenever you want.

815
00:40:38,998 --> 00:40:41,598
Speaker 4: And then so for me, you stop reading and you

816
00:40:41,678 --> 00:40:46,078
Speaker 4: just start watching. It's easier, it takes less time. And

817
00:40:46,078 --> 00:40:47,758
Speaker 4: then I just said with Scotti, Harris is now the

818
00:40:47,798 --> 00:40:51,918
Speaker 4: gym with the tigers, and I said to him, my

819
00:40:52,038 --> 00:40:56,878
Speaker 4: intention span is rotting away because I don't sit and

820
00:40:57,038 --> 00:40:59,038
Speaker 4: just read anymore like I used to. Cause when you

821
00:40:59,118 --> 00:41:01,438
Speaker 4: read a book and you're really into it, you start

822
00:41:01,478 --> 00:41:02,758
Speaker 4: reading and all of a sudden, you know, of course

823
00:41:02,798 --> 00:41:05,678
Speaker 4: you could identify, what did I just read. You've got

824
00:41:05,678 --> 00:41:07,598
Speaker 4: to go backtrack because you might get caught in the

825
00:41:07,678 --> 00:41:10,318
Speaker 4: thought or you're just you go off into another direction.

826
00:41:10,358 --> 00:41:12,038
Speaker 4: Mainly you not even realize you got to go back

827
00:41:12,038 --> 00:41:14,878
Speaker 4: and reread it because you want to get the gist.

828
00:41:14,918 --> 00:41:16,878
Speaker 4: You want to get every last drop out of what

829
00:41:16,958 --> 00:41:20,318
Speaker 4: I just read. And you had there was time involvement,

830
00:41:20,358 --> 00:41:23,238
Speaker 4: and you had to really focus and think and project

831
00:41:23,278 --> 00:41:26,358
Speaker 4: in your imagination just sort So we talked about that

832
00:41:26,878 --> 00:41:28,958
Speaker 4: and how that was a thing of the past, and

833
00:41:28,998 --> 00:41:31,398
Speaker 4: that's why we always want to move on to the

834
00:41:31,438 --> 00:41:33,398
Speaker 4: next thing, and that's why we get too quick. I

835
00:41:33,438 --> 00:41:36,438
Speaker 4: get too quick. I'm always wanted to do something else,

836
00:41:36,518 --> 00:41:39,278
Speaker 4: move to another direction, because you just can't sit and

837
00:41:39,278 --> 00:41:42,118
Speaker 4: get absorbed in the moment like we had once before.

838
00:41:42,238 --> 00:41:45,158
Speaker 4: Because and that's not good. I'll argue that with anybody.

839
00:41:45,198 --> 00:41:48,278
Speaker 4: That's not good. If I could do one thing for myself,

840
00:41:48,358 --> 00:41:51,038
Speaker 4: and I've attempted, and I've sipted and failed a couple times.

841
00:41:51,078 --> 00:41:53,558
Speaker 4: The last book I read was Ken Follett The World

842
00:41:54,078 --> 00:41:56,158
Speaker 4: Fall of Giants. I think it was War of the

843
00:41:56,198 --> 00:41:58,718
Speaker 4: World's a trilogy a couple of years ago, and I

844
00:41:59,038 --> 00:42:01,438
Speaker 4: loved it. I'm a big Kim Fallt fan. But that's

845
00:42:01,438 --> 00:42:05,558
Speaker 4: something I'd love to see a re connection with is

846
00:42:05,598 --> 00:42:07,878
Speaker 4: not just for me, but for kids and people in general.

847
00:42:08,358 --> 00:42:11,558
Speaker 4: Put the remote control down or the Apple device to

848
00:42:11,638 --> 00:42:13,718
Speaker 4: streaming device and really just pick up a book and

849
00:42:13,758 --> 00:42:16,798
Speaker 4: get lost in that book. That to me, more than anything,

850
00:42:16,878 --> 00:42:19,438
Speaker 4: much as much as anything, help control the success that

851
00:42:19,478 --> 00:42:22,118
Speaker 4: I had as a baseball person. And I do miss

852
00:42:22,158 --> 00:42:25,478
Speaker 4: the fact that I'm not as patient and able to

853
00:42:25,558 --> 00:42:28,198
Speaker 4: sit and just drink a book like I had in

854
00:42:28,238 --> 00:42:28,878
Speaker 4: the past.

855
00:42:29,198 --> 00:42:32,478
Speaker 3: Well, it's a major difference, Joe. And obviously you're not alone.

856
00:42:32,478 --> 00:42:35,038
Speaker 3: This is happening all around us. And think about kids

857
00:42:35,078 --> 00:42:36,638
Speaker 3: who grow up and this is all that they know.

858
00:42:36,758 --> 00:42:41,318
Speaker 3: Because what's happening is we're becoming a society of passive

859
00:42:41,478 --> 00:42:46,198
Speaker 3: observers rather than active participants. Because when you do have

860
00:42:46,238 --> 00:42:49,118
Speaker 3: to use your brain, if you're reading, you have to

861
00:42:49,158 --> 00:42:53,518
Speaker 3: think for yourself, right, and it spawns other thoughts, Whereas

862
00:42:53,518 --> 00:42:56,358
Speaker 3: if you're scrolling on social media, your brain is off.

863
00:42:56,558 --> 00:42:58,878
Speaker 3: I mean, how many stupid cat videos are you going

864
00:42:58,958 --> 00:43:01,278
Speaker 3: to watch? How many times is somebody going to send

865
00:43:01,278 --> 00:43:04,238
Speaker 3: out a meme about some clip from the office that's

866
00:43:04,278 --> 00:43:06,998
Speaker 3: going to make you laugh because you know somebody's snarky.

867
00:43:07,038 --> 00:43:09,278
Speaker 3: I mean, how many times does that happen. You're not

868
00:43:09,518 --> 00:43:13,598
Speaker 3: even using your brain when you're scrolling through these things online,

869
00:43:13,638 --> 00:43:15,838
Speaker 3: whereas if you pick up a book, if you read

870
00:43:15,878 --> 00:43:20,198
Speaker 3: a newspaper and take your time with something, you're actually

871
00:43:20,278 --> 00:43:22,998
Speaker 3: using your brain. And we're losing that ability, not just

872
00:43:22,998 --> 00:43:25,318
Speaker 3: for critical thinking, but just to think on our own.

873
00:43:26,078 --> 00:43:29,878
Speaker 3: We're letting you essentially the CPUs in our brain. We're

874
00:43:29,998 --> 00:43:34,158
Speaker 3: essentially saying we're just gonna have an external hard drive

875
00:43:34,278 --> 00:43:36,358
Speaker 3: that will do all of our thinking. Think about the

876
00:43:36,438 --> 00:43:38,438
Speaker 3: last time you had to give this is not a

877
00:43:38,478 --> 00:43:40,358
Speaker 3: good example, maybe the last time you had to give

878
00:43:40,398 --> 00:43:43,878
Speaker 3: examples to somebody or directions to your house. You have

879
00:43:43,958 --> 00:43:45,998
Speaker 3: to know the street names, and you know, like go

880
00:43:46,118 --> 00:43:49,518
Speaker 3: two miles, go through three miles, small thing, I get it,

881
00:43:49,558 --> 00:43:52,598
Speaker 3: And who doesn't love GPS. It's amazing, right, But it's

882
00:43:52,638 --> 00:43:55,718
Speaker 3: just one more example in this attrition of having to

883
00:43:55,838 --> 00:43:59,918
Speaker 3: think for yourself and basically contracting your thinking out to

884
00:44:00,078 --> 00:44:01,438
Speaker 3: external issues.

885
00:44:01,718 --> 00:44:06,398
Speaker 4: Interesting or not interesting. I mean it's a part of

886
00:44:06,798 --> 00:44:11,238
Speaker 4: you know, the entire development of you, Tom Berducci, Medio, Madden, whatever,

887
00:44:11,958 --> 00:44:16,038
Speaker 4: whether there's a component that should become more interesting just

888
00:44:16,318 --> 00:44:21,478
Speaker 4: by having this this foundation base of knowledge, wisdom, whatever,

889
00:44:22,038 --> 00:44:24,918
Speaker 4: just through reading someone else's works, And like you said,

890
00:44:24,998 --> 00:44:27,758
Speaker 4: for me was always about how does it apply to me?

891
00:44:28,598 --> 00:44:31,638
Speaker 4: And what kind of personal rabbit hole is to take

892
00:44:31,678 --> 00:44:35,038
Speaker 4: me down? Trying to make what I'm doing better For

893
00:44:35,198 --> 00:44:38,478
Speaker 4: years as a young coach with my computer when I

894
00:44:38,518 --> 00:44:42,238
Speaker 4: first got it, formulating forms and just trying to set

895
00:44:42,278 --> 00:44:45,878
Speaker 4: up a better way to organize practices as an example,

896
00:44:46,398 --> 00:44:49,078
Speaker 4: or whenever I taught somebody, how do I put my

897
00:44:49,158 --> 00:44:52,318
Speaker 4: work together so that I could reference it? And more quickly,

898
00:44:52,878 --> 00:44:54,638
Speaker 4: after I haven't seen a player for a month, how

899
00:44:54,638 --> 00:44:57,718
Speaker 4: do I sit down and recapture what we had talked about?

900
00:44:57,798 --> 00:45:00,278
Speaker 4: Because I always thought, you know, words were so important

901
00:45:00,318 --> 00:45:02,518
Speaker 4: that if I didn't use the same words when I

902
00:45:02,518 --> 00:45:04,838
Speaker 4: saw him again a month from then, that I could

903
00:45:04,838 --> 00:45:07,918
Speaker 4: miss out on that one that that one seminal moment

904
00:45:07,958 --> 00:45:11,038
Speaker 4: that we came together player coach and was able to

905
00:45:11,318 --> 00:45:15,118
Speaker 4: help him get beyond that. That that moment that he

906
00:45:15,198 --> 00:45:17,438
Speaker 4: was stuck. And so that's why I thought words were

907
00:45:17,438 --> 00:45:19,358
Speaker 4: so important, how you put words together. And then I

908
00:45:19,398 --> 00:45:22,278
Speaker 4: wanted to organize my work and my words better so

909
00:45:22,318 --> 00:45:24,078
Speaker 4: that as a coach, I could put A before B,

910
00:45:24,238 --> 00:45:26,998
Speaker 4: B before C, et cetera. But then just conversationally, you

911
00:45:27,118 --> 00:45:29,878
Speaker 4: become more interesting, right, I mean, you know what it's

912
00:45:29,878 --> 00:45:32,038
Speaker 4: like when when you mosey up to somebody that you

913
00:45:32,318 --> 00:45:34,638
Speaker 4: enjoyed because you know the conversation is going to be

914
00:45:34,638 --> 00:45:37,278
Speaker 4: interesting and it's going to challenge you in some way.

915
00:45:37,358 --> 00:45:39,758
Speaker 4: She's going to challenge you in some way, or they're

916
00:45:39,758 --> 00:45:42,438
Speaker 4: gonna they're gonna not attack, but uh, you have to

917
00:45:42,478 --> 00:45:44,718
Speaker 4: defend what you said, and they're gonna come back with

918
00:45:44,798 --> 00:45:48,798
Speaker 4: different thought. Its interesting, just plain so interesting as opposed

919
00:45:48,798 --> 00:45:52,718
Speaker 4: to not. And if there's anything I could encourage young

920
00:45:52,758 --> 00:45:55,158
Speaker 4: people to do more than anything, that's pick up a

921
00:45:55,198 --> 00:45:58,478
Speaker 4: book and then another one and then another one. And

922
00:45:58,598 --> 00:46:00,798
Speaker 4: like you said, you know, regarding the rabbit hole of

923
00:46:01,518 --> 00:46:05,678
Speaker 4: uh cat videos or whatever, my god, and I get

924
00:46:05,758 --> 00:46:06,998
Speaker 4: you know, I get lost in that. And the way

925
00:46:06,998 --> 00:46:08,398
Speaker 4: I read the New York Post and I'll go to

926
00:46:08,438 --> 00:46:10,158
Speaker 4: that for a couple of minutes, and then I say

927
00:46:10,198 --> 00:46:12,198
Speaker 4: to myself, what are you doing. Just put this down

928
00:46:12,238 --> 00:46:14,358
Speaker 4: and get the hell out of here. So that's true.

929
00:46:14,758 --> 00:46:17,678
Speaker 4: We're we're all subject to it, we're all victims of it.

930
00:46:18,118 --> 00:46:19,318
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so easy to do.

931
00:46:19,478 --> 00:46:19,798
Speaker 4: Listen.

932
00:46:19,958 --> 00:46:24,238
Speaker 3: I mean the people who design these algorithms and websites

933
00:46:24,278 --> 00:46:26,558
Speaker 3: and you name it, they know what they're doing. It's

934
00:46:26,638 --> 00:46:29,758
Speaker 3: designed to be addictive. An addiction is when your brain

935
00:46:29,798 --> 00:46:33,038
Speaker 3: shuts off and you stop making decisions on your own.

936
00:46:33,438 --> 00:46:35,798
Speaker 3: And that's what happening. You have to be aware of that.

937
00:46:35,838 --> 00:46:38,078
Speaker 3: And I realize it's not easy to do. And Joe,

938
00:46:38,078 --> 00:46:40,318
Speaker 3: it's only getting harder because I'm going to give you

939
00:46:41,078 --> 00:46:43,558
Speaker 3: one of the other words Oxford has that was one

940
00:46:43,558 --> 00:46:45,718
Speaker 3: of the finalists for Word of the Year that did

941
00:46:45,758 --> 00:46:47,758
Speaker 3: not win. If you want to put that in quoteses

942
00:46:47,798 --> 00:46:52,438
Speaker 3: win being brain rod. The other word is slop. Do

943
00:46:52,478 --> 00:46:53,558
Speaker 3: you know what slop is?

944
00:46:54,638 --> 00:46:58,638
Speaker 4: Slop? That would be in my mind's I slop would

945
00:46:58,678 --> 00:47:00,478
Speaker 4: be something that there's a group that think that it's

946
00:47:00,558 --> 00:47:04,118
Speaker 4: very important, but it has no particular meaning whatsoever. It is.

947
00:47:04,398 --> 00:47:07,398
Speaker 4: It's it's useless, even though you think it's something that

948
00:47:07,438 --> 00:47:10,078
Speaker 4: I want, it's absolutely useless. It's just it's going to

949
00:47:10,118 --> 00:47:13,278
Speaker 4: going to drain you of anything that's it's of substance

950
00:47:13,318 --> 00:47:15,318
Speaker 4: that's going to make you a better person. It's slop.

951
00:47:15,758 --> 00:47:19,998
Speaker 3: I like that definition, but that's not it. It's essentially

952
00:47:20,038 --> 00:47:24,598
Speaker 3: the material that a lot of the machine learning cranks out.

953
00:47:24,678 --> 00:47:25,718
Speaker 2: AI material.

954
00:47:25,878 --> 00:47:30,038
Speaker 3: Okay, like it's AI can write, for instance, say a

955
00:47:30,078 --> 00:47:33,158
Speaker 3: high school basketball game story and I put that in

956
00:47:33,238 --> 00:47:34,758
Speaker 3: quotes right right.

957
00:47:34,918 --> 00:47:35,638
Speaker 2: That's slop.

958
00:47:35,878 --> 00:47:38,318
Speaker 3: I mean for me, I realized that that's just boilerplate,

959
00:47:38,478 --> 00:47:42,478
Speaker 3: boring stuff without the human touch to it. Just multiply

960
00:47:42,718 --> 00:47:44,998
Speaker 3: that by everything else that's being cranked.

961
00:47:44,598 --> 00:47:48,598
Speaker 2: Out by the AI AI machines, and you have slop.

962
00:47:49,038 --> 00:47:53,558
Speaker 3: That material created by machine learning, major machine learning is slop.

963
00:47:54,198 --> 00:47:56,318
Speaker 2: And let's face it, we're seeing more of that.

964
00:47:56,398 --> 00:47:58,878
Speaker 3: It's only going to get quote unquote better and better,

965
00:47:58,958 --> 00:48:02,118
Speaker 3: where maybe you're not as easily able to identify it

966
00:48:02,158 --> 00:48:06,198
Speaker 3: as slop. But again it's it's turning off brains or

967
00:48:06,238 --> 00:48:09,718
Speaker 3: this case, not using a brain to produce material.

968
00:48:09,918 --> 00:48:11,878
Speaker 4: Why are we accepting this though? Why do we accept this?

969
00:48:11,918 --> 00:48:14,198
Speaker 4: Why do we accept this? I don't I don't understand

970
00:48:14,198 --> 00:48:16,598
Speaker 4: why that. Listen, when it comes to AI and things

971
00:48:16,638 --> 00:48:18,918
Speaker 4: of that nature. Yeah, I love the idea that it's

972
00:48:18,958 --> 00:48:21,918
Speaker 4: going to help medicine. I love the idea that it's

973
00:48:21,958 --> 00:48:24,878
Speaker 4: probably going to be helpful regarding me. Let's just say,

974
00:48:24,878 --> 00:48:27,918
Speaker 4: as an example, military defense for our country and other

975
00:48:27,958 --> 00:48:30,598
Speaker 4: countries whatever. There there's there's a certain component of this

976
00:48:30,678 --> 00:48:33,358
Speaker 4: that's going to be very helpful. It's going to help

977
00:48:33,398 --> 00:48:35,238
Speaker 4: you critically think in a way that you're going to

978
00:48:35,278 --> 00:48:39,158
Speaker 4: cull things down, see your mistakes more clearly, more quickly,

979
00:48:39,558 --> 00:48:42,798
Speaker 4: move on, et cetera. But too to replace the human

980
00:48:42,998 --> 00:48:46,038
Speaker 4: mind or in regards to having to write a term

981
00:48:46,118 --> 00:48:49,638
Speaker 4: paper or having a conversation like you're talking about postgame

982
00:48:49,998 --> 00:48:53,598
Speaker 4: writing a story that's just so generic in general, and

983
00:48:53,598 --> 00:48:57,038
Speaker 4: and and there's no there's no real there's not a

984
00:48:57,078 --> 00:49:00,518
Speaker 4: human being applying himself for herself to this, to this

985
00:49:00,798 --> 00:49:04,638
Speaker 4: storyline and the nuance of what he or she saw

986
00:49:05,398 --> 00:49:07,718
Speaker 4: and bringing it to the attention of those that were

987
00:49:07,758 --> 00:49:11,318
Speaker 4: the participants. I would be really offended if I knew

988
00:49:11,318 --> 00:49:16,878
Speaker 4: that my postgame performance was being analyzed and then distributed

989
00:49:16,918 --> 00:49:21,718
Speaker 4: publicly via a machine. Only wow that that there's there's

990
00:49:21,758 --> 00:49:24,798
Speaker 4: a certain level of like slop like you're saying about that,

991
00:49:25,398 --> 00:49:27,918
Speaker 4: I don't want to be Why would you want that?

992
00:49:27,958 --> 00:49:30,278
Speaker 4: Why would you want it? As a performer to be

993
00:49:30,358 --> 00:49:34,478
Speaker 4: analyzed by a machine. Where is the joy in that?

994
00:49:34,518 --> 00:49:39,118
Speaker 4: Where's the feeling of success or joy of a mission accomplished?

995
00:49:39,118 --> 00:49:41,598
Speaker 4: Where is it? I don't get that. I don't understand that.

996
00:49:42,038 --> 00:49:44,998
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's our word of the year is brain

997
00:49:45,078 --> 00:49:46,078
Speaker 3: rot and the runner.

998
00:49:45,878 --> 00:49:48,878
Speaker 2: Up is slopped. I think there's a lot of where

999
00:49:48,918 --> 00:49:51,358
Speaker 2: we are, but to be honest and to be more

1000
00:49:51,398 --> 00:49:52,358
Speaker 2: a little more hopeful.

1001
00:49:52,438 --> 00:49:56,278
Speaker 3: The word brain rot actually was first used in eighteen

1002
00:49:56,478 --> 00:50:01,438
Speaker 3: fifty four by throw Okay. We noticed that people were

1003
00:50:01,558 --> 00:50:05,118
Speaker 3: like they were. They didn't want to deal with complex issues.

1004
00:50:05,438 --> 00:50:07,758
Speaker 3: They wanted to boil everything down to everything it's the

1005
00:50:07,798 --> 00:50:10,558
Speaker 3: most simplistic thing. So there wasn't a lot This is

1006
00:50:10,558 --> 00:50:12,838
Speaker 3: eighteen fifty four in his words, there wasn't a lot

1007
00:50:12,878 --> 00:50:13,118
Speaker 3: of that.

1008
00:50:14,318 --> 00:50:17,918
Speaker 2: People wanted to dive into complex issues. So it's been.

1009
00:50:17,838 --> 00:50:21,798
Speaker 3: Around a while, the need, if you will, or the

1010
00:50:21,878 --> 00:50:25,118
Speaker 3: desire to boil things down and take things apart and

1011
00:50:25,238 --> 00:50:28,598
Speaker 3: deal with them on a smaller micro basis in terms

1012
00:50:28,598 --> 00:50:31,478
Speaker 3: of complex issues. Yeah, I mean that's been going on

1013
00:50:31,518 --> 00:50:33,438
Speaker 3: for a long time. But I do agree Joe that

1014
00:50:33,598 --> 00:50:38,918
Speaker 3: something we can't just accept progress for progress's sake alone.

1015
00:50:39,318 --> 00:50:41,838
Speaker 3: We at least sometimes have to stop and say, wait

1016
00:50:41,878 --> 00:50:45,558
Speaker 3: a second, what is the cost of progress? What are

1017
00:50:45,558 --> 00:50:51,758
Speaker 3: we missing? In this case, we're missing novels, nonfiction books,

1018
00:50:52,118 --> 00:50:55,718
Speaker 3: and now Ricky Henderson and the personalities that populated this

1019
00:50:55,798 --> 00:50:56,518
Speaker 3: game of baseball.

1020
00:50:56,718 --> 00:50:59,518
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've talked about that also. I mean the word progress,

1021
00:51:00,038 --> 00:51:04,238
Speaker 4: it's just thrown around. So was just thrown around like

1022
00:51:04,358 --> 00:51:07,078
Speaker 4: it's always good. It's not always good. It's a misnomer.

1023
00:51:07,638 --> 00:51:10,878
Speaker 4: Use a different word, whether it's like attempted progress. It's

1024
00:51:10,878 --> 00:51:14,158
Speaker 4: not just progress. It's it's somebody's version of progress. It's

1025
00:51:14,198 --> 00:51:18,998
Speaker 4: not everybody's version of being better. I really have a

1026
00:51:19,038 --> 00:51:20,398
Speaker 4: hard time when I hear that word. I kind of

1027
00:51:20,398 --> 00:51:22,838
Speaker 4: cringe all the time, progress or progressive I get. I

1028
00:51:22,958 --> 00:51:26,998
Speaker 4: cringe as to why that is always considered necessarily a

1029
00:51:27,038 --> 00:51:30,798
Speaker 4: better way of doing things. It's just somebody's opinion. And

1030
00:51:30,798 --> 00:51:34,158
Speaker 4: and sometimes absolutely it's it's it is. It is going

1031
00:51:34,158 --> 00:51:35,598
Speaker 4: to put us in the right direction. It's going to

1032
00:51:35,678 --> 00:51:38,318
Speaker 4: make things better, no doubt. But other times it's just

1033
00:51:38,398 --> 00:51:40,998
Speaker 4: somebody trying to sell sell an idea, sell a thought,

1034
00:51:41,038 --> 00:51:44,078
Speaker 4: or gain more power. And I so, I I really

1035
00:51:44,118 --> 00:51:47,238
Speaker 4: whenever I hear that word or those words progress are progressive,

1036
00:51:47,238 --> 00:51:50,558
Speaker 4: I just always step back, consider the source, try to

1037
00:51:50,638 --> 00:51:52,918
Speaker 4: understand what I'm hearing or reading right here, and then

1038
00:51:52,958 --> 00:51:55,038
Speaker 4: make up my own mind. Is this progress or is

1039
00:51:55,078 --> 00:51:57,358
Speaker 4: this not progress? Is this? Is this going to be

1040
00:51:57,358 --> 00:51:59,478
Speaker 4: beneficial now and down the road, or is it just

1041
00:51:59,958 --> 00:52:01,838
Speaker 4: is this like a flash in the pan? Is it

1042
00:52:02,678 --> 00:52:05,278
Speaker 4: a shooting star as opposed to rising star? And then

1043
00:52:05,318 --> 00:52:07,478
Speaker 4: I have to make these determinations for myself. That's the

1044
00:52:07,518 --> 00:52:10,878
Speaker 4: problem we do today too. Oftentimes people do not You've

1045
00:52:10,918 --> 00:52:14,198
Speaker 4: already referenced it, think for themselves, and we're always relying

1046
00:52:14,198 --> 00:52:17,038
Speaker 4: on others to think for us. And that's always been

1047
00:52:17,078 --> 00:52:20,798
Speaker 4: my one of my biggest issues regarding even the game

1048
00:52:20,838 --> 00:52:23,798
Speaker 4: of baseball in net where everybody so few want to

1049
00:52:23,838 --> 00:52:26,798
Speaker 4: think for themselves anymore. It's group think. I don't like groupthink.

1050
00:52:27,398 --> 00:52:29,678
Speaker 4: I do like consensus. I like when a group gets

1051
00:52:29,718 --> 00:52:32,678
Speaker 4: together and they talk about it, discuss it, opposing points

1052
00:52:32,678 --> 00:52:34,878
Speaker 4: of viewing perspectives. We arrive at a conclusion and we

1053
00:52:34,918 --> 00:52:37,198
Speaker 4: go out and we do this. This is who we are.

1054
00:52:37,598 --> 00:52:39,358
Speaker 4: But just to have it rammed down my throat, I'm

1055
00:52:39,358 --> 00:52:39,958
Speaker 4: not into it.

1056
00:52:40,118 --> 00:52:42,238
Speaker 3: Well, Oxford Press, give us the word of the year,

1057
00:52:42,318 --> 00:52:45,078
Speaker 3: which is brain, and Joe.

1058
00:52:44,838 --> 00:52:48,118
Speaker 2: Madden, you will always give us a saying.

1059
00:52:47,878 --> 00:52:49,998
Speaker 3: If you will to take us out each edition of

1060
00:52:49,998 --> 00:52:52,558
Speaker 3: the Book of Joe podcasts, and what do you got

1061
00:52:52,638 --> 00:52:57,398
Speaker 3: for us today as we head into Christmas season this week?

1062
00:52:57,638 --> 00:52:59,678
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I kind of went into that last sight,

1063
00:52:59,718 --> 00:53:01,718
Speaker 4: you know, I went Ricky Henderson on us. You know,

1064
00:53:01,798 --> 00:53:04,918
Speaker 4: I just I had to, you know, was like I said,

1065
00:53:04,958 --> 00:53:08,958
Speaker 4: I was impacted by this. He's sixty five years of age,

1066
00:53:08,958 --> 00:53:10,438
Speaker 4: you know. Of course I'm five years older than that.

1067
00:53:10,438 --> 00:53:12,838
Speaker 4: I'll give you six years older than that in a

1068
00:53:12,878 --> 00:53:15,198
Speaker 4: couple of weeks in February. So it's it's one of

1069
00:53:15,238 --> 00:53:17,838
Speaker 4: those things that hits home. And the fact that I

1070
00:53:17,918 --> 00:53:19,838
Speaker 4: knew him, the fact that I played against him and

1071
00:53:19,878 --> 00:53:21,598
Speaker 4: he was larger than life, kind of a dude and

1072
00:53:21,638 --> 00:53:24,318
Speaker 4: and loved by so many so I had to go there.

1073
00:53:24,798 --> 00:53:28,118
Speaker 4: And anyhow, just a couple one that was funny, I thought,

1074
00:53:28,718 --> 00:53:31,398
Speaker 4: because there was part of Ricky is Ricky don't like

1075
00:53:31,438 --> 00:53:36,798
Speaker 4: it when Ricky can't find Ricky's limo. See that made

1076
00:53:36,878 --> 00:53:39,838
Speaker 4: like exactly, I thought, God, that is so good. But

1077
00:53:39,878 --> 00:53:42,038
Speaker 4: then the other one is like something that you had

1078
00:53:42,038 --> 00:53:44,358
Speaker 4: spoken of. But there's another side of Ricky that we

1079
00:53:44,438 --> 00:53:47,278
Speaker 4: never knew about, or you didn't really kind of give

1080
00:53:47,318 --> 00:53:50,078
Speaker 4: him credit for thinking a little bit, But I like this,

1081
00:53:50,798 --> 00:53:54,078
Speaker 4: Once you can accept failure, you can have fun and success.

1082
00:53:54,198 --> 00:53:57,198
Speaker 4: Once you accept failure, you can have fun and success.

1083
00:53:57,758 --> 00:54:00,158
Speaker 4: And who had more fun and success than he did

1084
00:54:00,958 --> 00:54:04,238
Speaker 4: being able to, you know, get beat, lick your ounds,

1085
00:54:04,958 --> 00:54:06,838
Speaker 4: like like, hey, who was who had a dirty or

1086
00:54:06,918 --> 00:54:09,238
Speaker 4: uniform than he did every time he played the game.

1087
00:54:09,278 --> 00:54:12,038
Speaker 4: But he'd get up and he get does dust off.

1088
00:54:12,078 --> 00:54:14,278
Speaker 4: He'd dust himself off, chest, down his legs from that

1089
00:54:14,358 --> 00:54:16,518
Speaker 4: head first slide you described earlier, and he'd get on

1090
00:54:17,198 --> 00:54:19,158
Speaker 4: and he'd move on to the next moment. So you

1091
00:54:19,198 --> 00:54:22,238
Speaker 4: could accept your failures much you can, you can have

1092
00:54:22,438 --> 00:54:25,398
Speaker 4: fun and success. And then growing up like he did,

1093
00:54:26,078 --> 00:54:28,758
Speaker 4: the really difficult moments he had as a youth and

1094
00:54:28,878 --> 00:54:31,598
Speaker 4: eventually becoming what he did and then going back to

1095
00:54:31,638 --> 00:54:36,598
Speaker 4: playing in independent ball. That's that's incredible. But I think

1096
00:54:36,638 --> 00:54:40,718
Speaker 4: that's I've always believed that what he said there, you

1097
00:54:40,838 --> 00:54:44,078
Speaker 4: have to be able to lose in order to understand

1098
00:54:44,078 --> 00:54:46,678
Speaker 4: how to win. And I would tell my players that

1099
00:54:47,558 --> 00:54:50,478
Speaker 4: losing is pretty could be a it's probably the greatest teacher.

1100
00:54:51,078 --> 00:54:52,918
Speaker 4: And if you if you figure that out, then you

1101
00:54:52,918 --> 00:54:54,998
Speaker 4: could really be successful. And have some fun at it.

1102
00:54:55,038 --> 00:54:57,998
Speaker 4: So I love that what I read about that. He

1103
00:54:58,038 --> 00:55:01,718
Speaker 4: had said that, I know it's pretty simplistic, but I

1104
00:55:01,798 --> 00:55:03,758
Speaker 4: kind of like do simple better. So it's pretty cool.

1105
00:55:04,438 --> 00:55:06,558
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially as you know, Joe, when you're a base

1106
00:55:06,558 --> 00:55:11,358
Speaker 3: stealer like that, you not just accept the fact that

1107
00:55:11,518 --> 00:55:13,918
Speaker 3: you know you might fail. Yeah, you don't fear it

1108
00:55:13,998 --> 00:55:16,518
Speaker 3: at all. He was fearless and that's what you have

1109
00:55:16,598 --> 00:55:19,438
Speaker 3: to be as a base stealer. Remember Willie Wilson, the

1110
00:55:19,478 --> 00:55:23,038
Speaker 3: great bastealer and talking about the way Willy, the way

1111
00:55:23,038 --> 00:55:25,638
Speaker 3: that Ricky would slide and do it so many times

1112
00:55:25,678 --> 00:55:28,638
Speaker 3: head first with that body of his. He said, it's

1113
00:55:28,718 --> 00:55:31,918
Speaker 3: like jumping out of a car going twenty miles an

1114
00:55:31,958 --> 00:55:35,038
Speaker 3: hour and doing that night after night.

1115
00:55:35,158 --> 00:55:36,278
Speaker 2: Year after year.

1116
00:55:36,798 --> 00:55:40,518
Speaker 3: I mean, the pounding that that guy's body took was

1117
00:55:40,598 --> 00:55:41,358
Speaker 3: just amazing.

1118
00:55:41,478 --> 00:55:45,038
Speaker 2: So a one of a kind guy. Ricky Henderson we more.

1119
00:55:45,078 --> 00:55:47,998
Speaker 3: In his passing, Willy Wilson said that Willie Wilson great

1120
00:55:47,998 --> 00:55:50,838
Speaker 3: base stealer himself, New Jersey's own Willie Wilson.

1121
00:55:50,918 --> 00:55:53,478
Speaker 4: That's outstanding. Also, Yeah, thank you, Tommy, that was great

1122
00:55:54,158 --> 00:55:57,358
Speaker 4: talking about Ricky. I knew you'd be focused on that today.

1123
00:55:57,398 --> 00:56:00,878
Speaker 4: So I wanted to go there, and yeah he was.

1124
00:56:00,918 --> 00:56:04,158
Speaker 4: He was a wonderful, wonderful man in baseball player.

1125
00:56:04,358 --> 00:56:06,318
Speaker 2: Merry Christmas, Joe, We'll see you next time on the

1126
00:56:06,358 --> 00:56:06,918
Speaker 2: Book of Joe.

1127
00:56:07,158 --> 00:56:10,158
Speaker 4: You also Tommy, Take care Buddy.

1128
00:56:16,118 --> 00:56:19,318
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1129
00:56:19,558 --> 00:56:24,438
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1130
00:56:24,678 --> 00:56:26,438
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