1 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:10,120 Speaker 1: Get it all quick, and he was so Chris. 2 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 2: You you may recall, Uh, we had a couple of 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: recent conversations and I asked you how first you had 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 2: your barbecue place still going, that little restaurant. 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: No, No, I closed it down a few years ago 6 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: because I UH got a certification as a peer support 7 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: specialist in North Carolina, which just mean that a prayer, 8 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: a person has gone through some things and got over it. 9 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: UH now a live to go back and help some 10 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: other folks do the same thing. So once I got 11 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: that certification, I couldn't spend as much time at the 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: restaurant as I needed to be there. So the rest 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: things for me do was just shut them down. 14 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 3: So that leads me to my next question. I remember 15 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 3: reading that you were going to do something to help 16 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 3: I think it was youth or someone who was in 17 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 3: recovery or something. Can you plain what how that's work, 18 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 3: what's happening there, and how that's working? 19 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: Well? What I s thought it was a program called Thoughts, 20 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: Action Consequences. And again it's not just for athletes, it's 21 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: for the student Uh. Actually the student body are going 22 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: to different churches and the speed different youth groups to 23 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: speed UH and then again, it's just preparing the kids 24 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: to be ready for whenever they get to to where 25 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 1: they're trying to go in life, that they're if they're 26 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: ready to be there, you know. Unfortunately, say, when I 27 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: got to the NBA, I was prepared physically, but I 28 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: wasn't prepared mentally, you know. And and that comes for 29 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: not surrounding myself with people that were trying to do 30 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: the same things. So I try to get the kids 31 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: to understand that in order to get to it the 32 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: next level, you need to surround yourself which people are 33 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: trying to do the same things that you're trying to do. 34 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 3: Can you say the name of the program again? Slowly? 35 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: It's called thoughts, Action consequences. 36 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 3: Thoughts, Actions consequences. Great, Okay, they see is this something 37 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 3: that you started? 38 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: I did? Yes, I did? 39 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 3: And how many years has it been around? 40 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 1: I'm looking at not ten years? 41 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 3: Wow? 42 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: One on eleven? 43 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,119 Speaker 3: And what's the Can you be a little more specific 44 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 3: on what you're focusing on with that? Obviously the name 45 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 3: says a lot, but can you give me examples how 46 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 3: you try to mentor these as well as the primarily 47 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 3: youth or adults as well? 48 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: Can I say anyone that's trying to get to the 49 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: next level in life, but trying to get into a 50 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: different position. I think this program here, this program can 51 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: help because again it doesn't just specify as athletes trying 52 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: to get to either college or to the pros. This 53 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: is just a general thing for UH in life. Like 54 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: I said, the versus just wants to be the top 55 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: UH manager or supervisor for McDonald's, or the next person 56 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 1: wants to be the next CEO at the company. If 57 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: you're not prepared when that opportunity or that or opens 58 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: for you, then once you get in there, you won't 59 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: stay lost. And a lot of times I go back 60 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: to myself because, like I said, I was prepared for 61 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: the NBA UH physically, I wasn't prepared mentally. And then 62 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 1: also my surrounding circle was so big that anybody could 63 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: get to me. So the main thing was that once 64 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: once an opportunity presents hisself, you have to be ready 65 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: because that door may shut quicker than it opened up 66 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: for you. 67 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 3: Okay, well, let's that's impressive. And I'm going to get 68 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 3: to when you were at NC State and when you 69 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 3: met Land and what happened in your friendship with him. 70 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 3: But can you give me an example or two of 71 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 3: some things that you're teaching these people. What are some 72 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 3: of the themes or what are some of the uh, 73 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 3: some of the briefer or two or three strong, strong 74 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 3: lessons or messages. 75 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: What the maining lesson is is that although I was 76 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: sixty eleven at a young age, I was still a 77 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: follow and and and the guy as I was falling 78 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: were not guys that were trying to get to a 79 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: next level of sports or trying to do more positive things. 80 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: Although I was, I was a big kid, I was 81 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: I hung with older guys. You know, I was sixt 82 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: eleven when I was six seven in the seventh grade, 83 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: so that already put me in a different class so 84 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: people I could hang with because I could be in 85 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: the streets playing with guys my own age. But then 86 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: people would be like, why is this grown land playing 87 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: with these kids, not knowing that I'm a kid as well. 88 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: So I never really had a childhood. So when I 89 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: got with these older guys, I would kind of act 90 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: out and do things, and they were kind of laugh 91 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: and kind of you know, you know, smirk it off 92 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: because I was young, instead of kind of correcting what 93 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: I was doing because that that never changed as I 94 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: got older. You know, I kept still trying to if 95 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: I didn't understand that, I'm trying to be the funny one, 96 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: you know, in the group instead of, like I said, understanding. 97 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: So I want these kids to understand that it's all 98 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: right not to understand everything. You know what I'm saying, 99 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: It's only wrong when you don't ask questions, because when 100 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: the course was entity you and you can't answer it, 101 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: then people look at you like, you know, why are 102 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: you here? And then also I want the kids to 103 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: understand that all friends are not meant to go where 104 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 1: you go. You know, my thing was I wanted to 105 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: open the door for everybody to come in with me. 106 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: But but but everybody you know can't go, which is 107 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: the saying that I sell out. Now everybody I know 108 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: can't go where I go because we don't have the 109 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: same intention. And then also another thing is if you 110 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: get the chance to be an athlete or someone on 111 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: their changes their money status, that everybody jumps on your 112 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: wagon is not helping you go to the same goal. 113 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: Some i' are just on the wagon to ride. You know, 114 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: someone on ed see what you drop, or they can 115 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: pick up what you might not miss, you know. And 116 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: I say that because I had agents back then that 117 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: was writing themselves checks and I lost seven hundred and 118 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: fifty thousand, and I never knew about it because I 119 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: wasn't handling my own finance. And then and then another 120 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: big thing is I want the kids to understand. So 121 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: that's when I talked to the college athletes, we need 122 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: to take a finance course, because again, once we get 123 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: off to this deal of money, don't want somebody just 124 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: hading your money and you know nothing about it like 125 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: I did, you know. And it's another fast funny coming 126 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: from a guy that only had a four four seventy 127 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: esat sport. And again that's only because I never took 128 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: the SAT. At that time, the scores didn't matter, so 129 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: I just went in and I bubbled everything and went 130 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: to sleep for the three hours and left. And when 131 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: the scores came back, although the state gives you four hundred, 132 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: I only made seventy points on my on my own, 133 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: so it's like, you know, I mayor only got maybe 134 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: two questions right on the whole SAT. So then it 135 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: goes into the how did this kid get into a 136 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: Division I school? You know, what I'm saying, he must 137 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: be semi re target, not understanding that I never took 138 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: the actual test because at that time, coach, we said, 139 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: you've already tied your sins the formality, just going and 140 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: take the test, and you know, and and and that's it. 141 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: Not knowing like they said, I would go and bubble 142 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: everything and go to see the next thing. I know 143 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: there was national news and it This is even before 144 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: the internet, you know. So again I want the kids 145 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: to understand that anything in life, you know, you have 146 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: to sit down and especially for yourself, understand the things 147 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,119 Speaker 1: that's coming to you. Understand your finance, Understand where money goes. 148 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: Understanding that you can't help everybody you know, and and 149 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: and and just shut the lit. 150 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 3: Now are you Are you doing this primarily through speaking? 151 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 3: Are you doing seminars? And how does it work? 152 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: Well? I get it a lot of times. I say 153 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: if I go places like Alaska, I went over there 154 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: and I stayed about seven days, and I hit multiple 155 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: schools here in the States. I may go to churches 156 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: and do some youth grew I do a lot of 157 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: basketball camps and the something I've also done. Uh, It's 158 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: funny because I was banned from the NBA, But a 159 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: lot of times the NBA pays me to come back 160 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: and sweak to the kids about what to do and 161 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: what not to do, you know what I'm saying. So 162 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: so a lot of the guys, uh you know recently 163 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: coming to the NBA know who Chris Washburnt is. Well, 164 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: they might not know who Ano another person in the 165 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: in the eighty six draft is because they're not relevant 166 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: at this time. So the NBA still keeps me kind 167 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: of relevant even with the younger guys, you know. So, 168 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: So again I said, I had that fall early on, 169 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, And so this gives me 170 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: a chance to still be involved, but also kind of 171 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 1: He'll hope that these kids don't get those same pitfalls 172 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: as I went through. 173 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 3: I'll move on after this. Are you able to make 174 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 3: a living off of yours? This is your full time work? Now, 175 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 3: this is your p It. 176 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: Is full time work. I do make, I do make. 177 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: This is my full time there. But right now I'm 178 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: calling you. I'm talking to you for my truck because 179 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: I'm on set right now shooting a movie called The 180 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: Mutt with their Costrata and some other people in it. 181 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: So I'm I'm I'm sitting in the truck having to 182 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: do this during my lunchtime. He had just Uh, that's 183 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: while we're on set. So again, I try to stay busy. 184 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: Uh Uh. It's funny because I feel like I make 185 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: more money. I've made more money outside of basketball than 186 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: the time I did while I was in basketball because 187 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: my time was so short. So again, so I'm thinking 188 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 1: it's tan off at the end. 189 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 3: Part excellent, Well, good luck with that. Are you are you? 190 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 3: Are you playing an acting. 191 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: Role or I am an actor in the role of 192 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: the Mutt is an actual Italian mafia movie. Uh, the Mutt, 193 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: this guy named Joey. I played Chris, my actual self 194 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: in the movie. I'm Joey's best friend, and so I 195 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: have a lot of roles in this movie. But to day, 196 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: at the first day of shooting, So right now I'm 197 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: sitting outside of the prison. We got with us some 198 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: scenes inside the prison we have to shoot. So right 199 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: now outside the fridge and get ready to start back 200 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: up again. Don't get like they thought. Again, so I'll 201 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: try to stay busy. 202 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's success like fun Good luck with that. Let's 203 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 3: talk about the main reason where we're talking today, as 204 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 3: I write in the book, you you told me that 205 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 3: you met Lynn in nineteen eighty four when you went 206 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 3: to College Park to play Maryland. Can you tell me? 207 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 3: And you got into a little bit of the specifics, 208 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 3: but if you can recall maybe more detail, how did 209 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 3: you did you walk up to him, did he walk 210 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 3: up to you? How did you meet Lenn And what 211 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 3: happened when you were did you guys hang out on 212 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 3: that trip? 213 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, we need to back it up a little bit. 214 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: I'd watched Lynn well most of the time when I played, 215 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: and coaches or people came to us. He had a 216 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: certain player and I would hear about it. This was 217 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: my fuge to make sure that at the end of 218 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: that game you were talking about me, you know. And 219 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: so I watched Lynn. Maryland had played Carolina and Lyn 220 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: had a back to back Uh he hit a jump shot, 221 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: came me and throw the ball, dunk back with the 222 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: one Mark Okay, I got and I saw that that 223 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: clip and I I, who was this got here? And it 224 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: was like I could never do I could I always 225 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: do more than Brad daughter would hear my name? You 226 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, And a lot of the other 227 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: guys I could still hear my name over, so I 228 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: could never hear my name over this Lynn biased guy. 229 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: It was the eighty five eighty six season, I mean 230 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: eighty five eighty six season. I got to see Lynn, 231 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: and like I said, I'd been hearing about Lynn during 232 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: the season. I hadn't seen them really that much because 233 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: we were both playing at that time. But I knew 234 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: we were going to Maryland and I just had to see, 235 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: you know, how tall and Land was, how it was built, 236 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff, because that would give me 237 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 1: my satisfaction. Once a guy out the court kind of 238 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: bring my nerves down on guys. Sometimes I would see 239 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: guys need to be talling what what media had said. 240 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: They are are shorter, so I had to see him. 241 00:11:57,640 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: So once I saw them, you know what I'm saying. 242 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: And again what Once we got on campus, we had 243 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: a shoot around coache We get a year, hang out 244 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: for a little while and go back to the hotel. 245 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: Me and Nate went off to the where the classes 246 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: were and I was asking FoST where's Lynn at? Where 247 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 1: is Lynn? And they actually directed me to the building 248 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: in the class where he was at, and I guess 249 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: the belly run when we went through and he was 250 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: walking down the hall and I saw him and we 251 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: talked right then for just a few minutes, and I 252 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: just just had to see the physical him. And that's 253 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: the first time i'd seen him, and you know, and 254 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: I spent a little more at ease because I was 255 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: a little taller than them, so I thought that was 256 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: gonna hold some weight when we played, you know. But 257 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: again we under spoke for a second. We said what 258 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: I seen the night of the game, and uh, we 259 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: lost that night. You know, he had a decent game. 260 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: And then I finally saw why they were talking about 261 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: Lynn Bias so much, you know. And and like I said, 262 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: now you have to understand that was during mid season. 263 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: Then just lend them came to Raleigh play us at 264 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: our home court, and after that I think they left 265 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: right out. But it wasn't until after season that when 266 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,359 Speaker 1: in North Carolina has a thing called bomb storming. 267 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 3: Christ if we could back up for a little bit, 268 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 3: so when you were when they came down to play 269 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 3: against you in eighty six in Raleigh. I remember after 270 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 3: that game, Len got suspended because he broke curfew. He 271 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 3: went to a party with Keith Gatlin and John Johnson 272 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,439 Speaker 3: called her. They said they went with some some NC 273 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 3: State players and called a called a freak mama contest. Okay, 274 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 3: you remember if you were at that party. 275 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: Now, it wasn't it wasn't with me. Okay, it wasn't 276 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: with me because at that time I said, I never 277 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,719 Speaker 1: hung out with Leon or anything until the bomb. 278 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 3: Star Okay, all right, yeah, so go ahead, did the Barnes. Okay, 279 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 3: the barn storming. 280 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: At that time, I wasn't going, bro I was, you know, 281 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: bomb stormer for senior people that had already declared they 282 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: would go to the NBA. And at that time I 283 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 1: had declare I was going. And so you know, I 284 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: didn't even go to the game in North Carolina. But 285 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 1: about about about twelve one o'clock in the morning, I 286 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: get knocked at my door and it's the little guy 287 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: that used to run around with the Renezzo, Charles. But 288 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: he was also good with Valvano and all the coaches, 289 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: and yeah, he would do little things for them, so 290 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: make sure the players to get get the practice on time, 291 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: or make sure that if we could make a doctor's 292 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: appointment something like that. So he was real good with 293 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: the coaching staff. So he knocking on the door. I 294 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: looked out now and I saw him and it was 295 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: no problem me over the door. When I opened the door, 296 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: Linn popped around the corner, and I was, you know, 297 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: and I was surprised. You know, Lynn in town, you know, 298 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, now I'm like the I'm like 299 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: the groupie now, you know. Yeah, theyn't come on in, 300 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: you know, sit down, let's talk and all that kind 301 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: of stuff. But they were doing some other things, which 302 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: I told you before. I'm actually trying to get my 303 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: book and stuff going. I can't give you all those 304 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: in room details, but understanding that when he left that night, 305 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: when they actually left that night, well not even that 306 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: night that morning, because I had to get them out 307 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: of my bathroom so I could go in take a shower, 308 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: so I had I had a seven fifty class that morning. 309 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: And uh, let's just say I never made it to 310 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: that class. 311 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 3: Well, Christoph could if I could interject, you told me 312 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 3: for the book that that's that he introduced you to 313 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 3: cocaine that night. 314 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: You just told me. 315 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 4: That's correct, that's correct, that's correct, right, okay, right, And 316 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 4: that's what and that's that that's at that point where 317 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 4: I said I never went went back to class and 318 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 4: to the point that coach reading them called me to the. 319 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: Office and told me that I was going to be 320 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: ineligible the next season. So I've already been suspended my 321 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: freshman year, I played my sophomore year. Now you telling 322 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: me I'm probably be in eligible my junior year. And 323 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: so at that point I had I knew a couple 324 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: of eighties. So I called one and he told me 325 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: he would put his ear out there to see if 326 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: what he could hear. As for as well, my name 327 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: fell in the draft, and uh, first time they called Chris. 328 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 3: Can we back up a second to go back to 329 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 3: that night, please and tell me what more you remember 330 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 3: about that was it? Were you surprised when when Lenn 331 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 3: pulled out the covers wherever pull out the cocaine? 332 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: Well, well I wasn't surprised because again I didn't see 333 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: who pulled it out. It wasn't in a power form. 334 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: It was already in a glass jar, to say, and 335 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: they were needing the other I was one of the 336 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: only me and maybe two other players had telephones. The 337 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: other two guys were, as we said, back their nerves. 338 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: You know, I was a cool guy, so you could 339 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: come to my room in any time and use my phone. 340 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: So they came to my room to use the phone. 341 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: Like I said, they went off into the bathroom and 342 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: use my phone and stuff. And I went back to sleep, 343 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: but I had to get up for my seven fifty class. 344 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: They were still in the bathroom. So there has been 345 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: in four or five hours. And so when I came out, 346 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: I told him, ID, that's which places. When I came out, 347 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: I guess the person that they were waiting on came 348 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: and help them do what they were doing. I came 349 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: back out, and you know, someone asked you to try 350 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: something of of of a status you know that I 351 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: put them on. You know, I don't want them to 352 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 1: think I'm not cool, you know what I'm saying. So 353 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: you offered me something I tried. You know, now again 354 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: just like back in the day whom when somebody offered 355 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: me marijuana, I tried it. Never got hooked on it, 356 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: but I tried it, you know what I'm saying. So 357 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: I tried this as well, but it was just something 358 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: totally different about this. Yere. 359 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 3: Were you surprised? Are you surprised that one was doing that? 360 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: I was. I was surprised yet because again I'd never 361 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 1: done it. You know, I've always sayed natural, I tried, 362 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: you know, when I tried it that first time, Just 363 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: to be honest with you, you know, I enjoyed it up 364 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: until I finally quit fourteen years later. You know, it 365 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: just gave me a different uh different a different body field. 366 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 1: You know. I've seen the other players on other teams, 367 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: uh snort cocaine before the games, you know. And so 368 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: my thing was, I played a lot of times again 369 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: guys that was already jacked up on something, not knowing it. 370 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, I'm out there playing natural. 371 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: But when I tried that, you know, it made a 372 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: big change in my life. And like I said, I 373 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: never went back to class. I ended up leaving State. 374 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: I left a car there, I left closed everything. I 375 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: never went back for almost until after the draft. And 376 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: why did you leave? So why did you leave so quickly? 377 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: But I left because coaches let me know that I 378 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: was gonna be ineligible uh the following season, due to 379 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: I hadn't know. I hadn't been in any class when 380 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: they left that morning. I never left and went to 381 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 1: class after that, you know, I stayed in the room. 382 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: And then because once that high war all and it 383 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,479 Speaker 1: was such a new drug. I found myself riding around Raleigh, 384 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: you know, wanting to find it, but scared to ask 385 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: people for it because everybody knew who I was. 386 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 3: That that affected you that quickly, you wanted more that quickly. 387 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: Just I was hook the day one first hit. I 388 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 1: was hooked. I never wanted to do classes or anything 389 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: like that. So I said, when I actually went to 390 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: the NBA, I was already damaged to it. That's why 391 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: I just like I say when I tell the kids, 392 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: when I talked to the kids about foss actually consequently 393 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: being prepared when you get there, I was. I was unpreparssed. 394 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: I was already a crackhead going to the NBA. It 395 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: was just at that point in time, I was a 396 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: millionaire crackhead going into the NBA, and I I was 397 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: new to the drugs through it. I wasn't addicted to it. Shit. 398 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: I wanted to do it, you know what I'm saying, 399 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: so I could put it down and go to practice 400 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 1: or go to games. But as the addiction progressed, I 401 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: started missing practices. I started coming late the games, you know, 402 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: to the point where the NBA started taking notice and 403 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: tipped off to my first rehab. 404 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 3: And then if I recall, you had several other stints 405 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 3: in rehab as well. 406 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: Right, Oh, I mean I went to rehab two, two times, 407 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: maybe three times. In the Indians one, I went three 408 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: times while I was in the NBA. When I left, uh, 409 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: the rehab without the NBA's permission. That's when I found 410 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: out that night on ESPN's I had been banned from 411 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: the league. And so I mean, and again I'm just 412 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: sitting there watching it. I'm not even getting high. I'm 413 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: watching TV. I just left the rehab center because I 414 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: was I wasn't doing drugs before I went, and I 415 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 1: was just hanging around the same area. And uh, you know, Dad, 416 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: they said, if I'm hanging around in the same areas, 417 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: I much be doing something. So they put me back 418 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: off in the rehab. So me when my my smart 419 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: intelligence back then I left and they called me and 420 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 1: they gave me they gave me an hour to get back. 421 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: And you know, Chris always liked to walk the edge sometimes, 422 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, and and after that time went over, 423 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 1: they didn't call me back or anything. Like I said. 424 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: I saw ESPN that Chris Washburn's band from the NBA. 425 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: And first thing, this is the junkie side of me, 426 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: was this was the first thing I thought about, was cool, 427 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 1: No more practice, you know, not thinking that, no more income, 428 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: you know. So and even the even though it was 429 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: said to me over the the TV, I stilled with 430 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: the practice the next day. And to my knowledge, at 431 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: that time, I was actually escorted or work in the 432 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: arena because I wasn't a player no more. So now 433 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: I'm seeing the guys going in, going down the hill, 434 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: going into the Omni, I'm standing at the top of 435 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: the hill, awaven to try to flag him down because 436 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: I don't have any money and I want to get high, 437 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 1: you know. And you know, I knew where we used 438 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: to go after practice to go eat lunch and all that, 439 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: and as a team, a few of us would get 440 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: together to go and so I started stalking those places out. 441 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: And then the guy started seeing me hanging in those 442 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 1: places anywhere, started going to the different places I didn't 443 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 1: know about, you know, And then so against I had 444 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: to learn that. 445 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 5: Quick. 446 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 3: And hey, Chris, when Lynn died, did that impact your 447 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 3: cocaine you so all? Did you think, Oh my goodness, 448 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 3: it killed him and could kill me. 449 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: I did, because I said we'd just gotten drafted that Tuesday, 450 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,959 Speaker 1: and I spoke to him briefly after the draft and 451 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: told him I was coming through d C that Friday 452 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: because I was gonna go back down the state. Did 453 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: everybody see my new car? And then gone back to history, 454 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: my little hometown so my friends and family could see me. 455 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, that the new NBA guy. 456 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: But and so we said, yeah, you know, we're gonna 457 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: meet up. I said, I'll call you when I get 458 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: in the Maryland such and such. I had his number 459 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: at that time. And then, like I said, I was down. 460 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: I was downtown in Manhattan doing uh, some kind of 461 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: photo shoot and got asked me out here about Land 462 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: and I say, now what about you know what I mean. 463 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: You know, he had died and I didn't believe that time. 464 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: The guy went and got a New York coach. He'll 465 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: remember on the back of the post it showed me 466 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: laying it passed. Now again, I was actively getting high 467 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: at that point in time, so it did shape me. 468 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. I did stop for uh, 469 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: you know, for a period of time. This was still 470 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: before preseason even started, so I stopped. I went all 471 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: the way through preseason without doing drugs. Right at the 472 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: end of pre season, me and coach Carl had gotten 473 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 1: into it, and that just gave me an outlet to well, 474 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: let me go, five me to cocaine. You know, I 475 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: know how to get rid of this problem right here, 476 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: let me go get high and so again, and that 477 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: just started it back up before a period of time 478 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 1: to answer. Unfortunately, I did have a a reagion of, uh, 479 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: of not stopping, maybe slowing down, maybe not doing it 480 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: like he did. Because over over the times, uh, you know, 481 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: because I'm probably in a different circle than a lot 482 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: of folks looking looking in on, I found out that 483 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: he was drinking it as well as snorting and smoking. 484 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: And see, when you give him cocaine cocktails, that freezes 485 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 1: your whole body, so you can't tell when your heart 486 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: is real fast, you know. And see, there are certain 487 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: ways you can do to do cocaine. And my main 488 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 1: thing was, I said I was never I started snorting 489 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: in the beginning after I was introduced to it by 490 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: smoke weight, and I saw the snorting, uh, you know, 491 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,239 Speaker 1: messing my nose up too much. What people would do 492 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: can identify what I was doing smoking, I thought was 493 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: a closet type thing. And and and that's what I 494 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: chose to do. I never shot it up or did 495 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 1: anything other than smoking. 496 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 3: So so how would they drink it? What would they 497 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 3: put it? What liquid would they put it in? 498 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 1: They can put it in any kind of drink. I mean, 499 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: it's just a clear power. And now you do it, 500 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 1: once you drink it is just it just freezes your inside, 501 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: just numbs the old inside. But when you do that, 502 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: you can't feel your your heartbeat, you know what I'm saying. 503 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: You can't. You can't tell when you've had enough to say. 504 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 3: And so like what was in your understanding that that's 505 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 3: how Lene consumed it? He would drink it. 506 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: No, that's how I consume it. That that that one 507 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 1: time is what I heard. And he tried to cocain 508 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: cocktail because now he has the money to do these 509 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: kinds of things. See before you don't have that kind 510 00:25:55,080 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 1: of money to just blursion. Uh drug cocaine wasn't back. 511 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 3: Now now also did you? Uh do you recall a 512 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 3: few and Len used cocaine together after that first time. 513 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: No, never never got a chance to do again after that. 514 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: After the bomb storming when they came back. But I 515 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: had plans on using that weekend. 516 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, what I have now. I don't know if 517 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 3: it was you or someone else told me they thought 518 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 3: he was using cocaine during the draft up in New York. 519 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: It wasn't me to say that, but I wouldn't. I mean, 520 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: I was using right before the draft I got in. 521 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: Uh well, we were. We actually walked in, both of 522 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: us walked in after the hit tall brad daughter's name, 523 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: you know. And so that was just just that quick 524 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: because by the time we sat down there and called him, 525 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: and you know, by the time the switch started rolling 526 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: off my forehead, they called me, you know. And but yeah, 527 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: I just saw each other passing the hallway and and 528 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: that was it all. 529 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 3: Right now, uh Len's legacy, as you probably realized, it's 530 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 3: pretty diverse. I mean, it saved people's lives. People say 531 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 3: they never used drugs because he died through using cocaine. 532 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 3: It affected a lot of lives. It altered lives. It 533 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 3: altered your life by having him introduced it to you. 534 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 3: How would you what would you or how would you 535 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 3: summarize lens legacy not just the basketball We all know 536 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,479 Speaker 3: him as a basketball player. But other than that, what 537 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 3: do you think was the biggest impact of his death? 538 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: It brought away that I think to uh to the 539 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: drug scene more so especially in the eighties where the 540 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: NBA was just finally getting over the air on era 541 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: in the seventies. You know, it just brought a light 542 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: to show that, you know, Year the five specimen, a 543 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: great athlete and it could kill him, you know. Uh. 544 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: And here if you look at that whole first round draft, 545 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: my yeah, uh Lan guy Lynn, Tarflee, Bedford. A lot 546 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:12,719 Speaker 1: of us was dabbling back then with it, but I wouldn't. 547 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: I wouldn't look at it. I wouldn't harm Land's legacy 548 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: with it because again it was a trial and arab here. 549 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,439 Speaker 1: You know, we were all young trying something different. We 550 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: all thought we were superman back then, so we would 551 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: try things that we didn't think would hurt us or 552 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: you know, or we would give things to each other 553 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: that we didn't think would hurt the other person. That 554 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: that this is a drug that can actually keep even 555 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: uh guys in great shape. 556 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 3: How has as you look back on as you would, well, 557 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 3: you went to jail for a little bit. 558 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: Correct, I went to prison for three years. 559 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 3: In prison for three years. As you look back on 560 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 3: your or deal with drugs and serving prison time, do 561 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 3: you think this would have happened to you if you 562 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 3: hadn't if you hadn't used cocaine that first time? 563 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: Was like, I don't, I don't know. I think I 564 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: would have passed. You know, I missed a lot of 565 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: things that I went through just from that one night, 566 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: because again I didn't The only other person I was 567 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: hanging with at State was Nate McMillan, and they didn't 568 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: do any any kind of drugs. You know. We were 569 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: beer drinkers, you know, I was. I was a little 570 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: weed smoker back then, but Nate was a beer drinking 571 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: and that's as far as That's as far as my 572 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: range went. And being in North Carolina, the little country 573 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: city there of Raleigh, cocaine wasn't big, you know. Now again, 574 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: would I may have tried it later on, because again 575 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: I didified myself in the rooms, even in the NBA, 576 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: with other high profile guys that were doing things. And 577 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: again I feel part too, because I didn't want them 578 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: to feel a dope, and I was going to be 579 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: the one to ra I'm out of say anything, So 580 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: who's to say that, you know, a year or two later, 581 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: five years later on down the road, that I would 582 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: have walked in the room and you know, one of 583 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: the All Star guys lay up in there and offered 584 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: me something. I was just taking it. 585 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 3: You know, well, let me let me work this a 586 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 3: different way. Do you blame Len for your situation? 587 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: Oh? No, I can't blame them, because again, I was abroad. 588 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: I was still nineteen years old when I took it 589 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: as a new right wrong. My thing was, I was 590 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: just unafraid of anything. You know, I blame myself more 591 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: so because I was unafraid of saying no, feeling like 592 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: guys are gonna look at me different. 593 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,239 Speaker 3: Do you use Lens? Do you use Len's story at 594 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 3: all in your presentations when you talk to people? 595 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: No? No, I mean no, no more than that. Yeah, 596 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: look at it like this. A person, an enemy couldn't 597 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: give you anything because they couldn't get close enough to you. 598 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: You always get things good or bad from the closest 599 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: people from you, I mean around your friends. And so again, 600 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: if I didn't know Lynn, lincoldn't have got to me 601 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: Lincoln and gave me nothing. But because we were in 602 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: the same profession. You know, I wanted to be more 603 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: more like him, more so on and off the court. 604 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: I guess that I was willing to take a chance 605 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: and and and entering his world and where I should 606 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: have stayed into mind and then or we could still 607 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: co exist on the court. I didn't have to jump 608 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: off to his lane, you know, uh, just to be 609 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: a part of and and And that's the only thing 610 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: I blame myself off. Now. 611 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 3: I imagine your your story is so strong in itself, 612 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 3: you don't really need to refer to what happened to 613 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 3: Len to teach people. You know, this is what you 614 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 3: shouldn't do. So as you look at back, look back 615 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 3: at everything that you've been through, Chris, with drugs and 616 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 3: and and serving prison time, and how you have you 617 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 3: you have recovered? What is the biggest takeaway for you? 618 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 3: What's the most important thing that that you you think 619 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 3: back on and say, hey, you know this happened for 620 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 3: this reason, or this happened for that reason, or anything 621 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 3: to that effect. 622 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: Well, I mean when Land came to my room that night, 623 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: it was for a reason, you know, and never knowing 624 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: the reason was stretch out over forty years almost because 625 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: I sit back and look at it. That Land would 626 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: have probably never came to my room that night. Let's 627 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: that I was never introduced to drugs. Let's just say that, 628 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: uh you know, I went off and had a great career. 629 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: I may or not have met the ladies that I have, 630 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: so I may and I have the kids that I have. 631 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: Now you know, I may, and now I have met 632 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: uh man. And I went to the gym that night 633 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: because I was doing something else, I wouldn't have met 634 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: my wife that night, you know. And so again a 635 00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: lot of these things I could be mad about, but 636 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: and reverse, a lot of these things that happening good 637 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: for me now came from that. You know. See, let's 638 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: just understanding that if I'd had one hundred million, one 639 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty men like they started giving athletes back then, 640 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: how to probably put my mom off into a home 641 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: when I found out she had all times, instead of 642 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: you know, shutting my house down in Texas and moving back, 643 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: taking on the responsibility for teen years and helping her. 644 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Because if I had one 645 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million something like that, how to pay 646 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: somebody else to do that, so I wouldn't had these 647 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: last ten years with her sport. She just passed last 648 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: last last May, at ninety years old. So again I 649 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: got a lot of good out of the wrong. I 650 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: guess the worst part is I never got to really 651 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: fulfill my basketball part where I could actually really see, well, 652 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: you know, where I could have been, because on each 653 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: level I played, I've always excelled and to All Star 654 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: or you know, uh, one of the best, and so 655 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 1: you'll actually get to the NBA where you know, all 656 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 1: of this stuff to be in stone. Now I kind 657 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: of gave it away freedom, you know, and and and 658 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: those are the only things that I'm mad about, you know. 659 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 3: Could you could you go as far as saying you're 660 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 3: glad it happened that Lennon introduced you to cocaine? Would 661 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 3: you know that far? 662 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: I've no none. I wouldn't say that because again I 663 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: never know what I could have actually been without the 664 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 1: use of it. But again I'm not mad at him 665 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: because he did, because again it opened up different doors 666 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 1: that I may not have opened. You know, if he 667 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: didn't introduce that to me, you know, I may have 668 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: been on a different street doing something else and not 669 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: have met the people that I've met Over the course 670 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,720 Speaker 1: of the years because of what you know, what I 671 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 1: got from him that at that time. But uh no, 672 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: I'm not. I don't get upset about it because you 673 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: know I did that at nineteen. If I'm still mad 674 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 1: about something nineteen uh and and may I'll be fifty 675 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: five years old, you know I'd be crazy. You know, 676 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: life is too short. I sit back now, I believe 677 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: it or not. And look at all the guys that 678 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: stayed in shape but did all the correct things and 679 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: that are dead now. You know that that are athletes. 680 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: You know I still bed to think about my friends, 681 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: Anthony Mason, uh shackle Put, when the war Ridge, you know, 682 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,320 Speaker 1: all these body Field, all these guys did it correctly 683 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: and but but Butter not here at this time. I'm 684 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: still here and I did it wrong with wrong, with 685 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: wrong than anyone. So I must have a story to 686 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,879 Speaker 1: tell that someone. I hadn't met that right person yet, 687 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, because I'm still here. But 688 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: there's the reason. While I'm still here. And like I 689 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: said again, you know, cocaine opened up a lot of 690 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 1: doors for me that it should have also opened up 691 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: a lot of doors that it shouldn't know it's just 692 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: now that I know how to do around those doors 693 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 1: that opened up, you know that I shouldn't be going through, 694 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: and I didn't when I was younger. 695 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 3: Okay, I have you been following the movement to try 696 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 3: to change sentence sentencing maximums for drug possessions and all 697 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 3: the social change happening there. Are you aware of that? 698 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:29,800 Speaker 1: I am? I am. 699 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 3: What are your thoughts on that? Do you think it's 700 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,760 Speaker 3: heading in the right direction? Now we're drug crime drug 701 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 3: drug sentencing should be reduced based on the crime. Do 702 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 3: you have What are your thoughts on that? 703 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: I would think that and and again this is just 704 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: Chris being an athlete. Especially the cases that are involved 705 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: in marijuana. The marijuana thing, I don't see it being 706 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: bad because I know a lot of guys that would 707 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,439 Speaker 1: rather smoke marijuans that take all the purcase said, uh, 708 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: hydro codones that the doctors prescribe us. They would rather 709 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: smoke marijuana where it's more relaxing for them. Now I 710 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: can see them throwing those kind of cases out. The 711 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: cocaine again, those are harsher drugs. And now these days, 712 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,879 Speaker 1: because when I talk to the kids, they're not just 713 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: using cocaine, they're using scent and all they're using, uh, 714 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,319 Speaker 1: myths and all these different things to to add into it. 715 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 1: So my question is, back when I was in the eighties, 716 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: and I asked a lot of kids the back when 717 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: I was in the eighties, Uh, there were three main 718 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: addictions out there, heroin, cocaine, alcohol, and now those same 719 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,800 Speaker 1: addictions out there, but now we also have myth. Uh, 720 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: you have a flocker, you have wax sir, all these 721 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 1: different drugs, and I'll be asking the kid, how high 722 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: do y'all want to get it? Because a lot of 723 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: time you're adding all the drugs on top of drugs 724 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: they get you. You can only get so high, and 725 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,720 Speaker 1: then once you get that high, what is the plan 726 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: after you get high? You know? And and and so 727 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 1: that's why I said thoughts actually consequences, because if you 728 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 1: if your time just sitting around planning on getting high, 729 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: you're not playing on the future. And I'm the first 730 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: one to say that after Basketball left me, it took 731 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: me a long time before I found me your niche 732 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,360 Speaker 1: as far as what I wanted to do, and that 733 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: didn't last on because I was looking at that chick. 734 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: Compare it to an NBA chick and it just didn't 735 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: add up, you know, so that you kind of missed 736 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,879 Speaker 1: me up doing regular. That's why I had to start 737 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: opening up things and working for myself. But you know, 738 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: but but no, like I said, the drugs, uh, the 739 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: marijuana part. And then I can see, you know, letting 740 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: them everybody out that because it's now starting to be 741 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 1: legal everywhere. 742 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:08,800 Speaker 3: But you do you have a position on reducing crimes 743 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,879 Speaker 3: for cocaine possession and distribution as it's trying to be 744 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 3: implemented all that the Social Justice reformed, the sentencing reform laws. 745 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 1: But I look at the cocaine just like they're looking 746 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: at the myth now. Back then they back then cocaine 747 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: and we were added, you know. Now the myth is 748 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: more if they need help, you know, I look at 749 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,240 Speaker 1: and actually been an addict. Yeah, you can't live life 750 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: on life terms. You need something to cope with you 751 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:44,440 Speaker 1: an addict. But cocaine wise, you know, I think everyone 752 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: needs him. I think everyone needs the first, second, third, fourth, 753 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,839 Speaker 1: fifth chance, you know, because look at me. I went 754 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,720 Speaker 1: to rehab fourteen times. You know, I went fourteen times. 755 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: And when I finally got it, and I didn't go 756 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: to rehab. I just came to a point where I 757 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: was tired of doing it. You know, you can't make 758 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: a person even now, even when I was in prison, 759 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 1: because I wouldn't actually trying to stop getting high. I 760 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: was smoking, cracking prison. So it's in there as well, 761 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 1: you know, So it only comes out to the person 762 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,399 Speaker 1: wanting to actually stop. I tell a lot of the kids, 763 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: you can't do nothing for mom and daddy, baby, sister, brother, 764 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,760 Speaker 1: none of that kind of stuff. Until you're ready to stop, 765 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: You're gonna keep doing it. Because I said, I waste 766 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: a lot of people's money in time fourteen times, you know, 767 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,359 Speaker 1: until I was ready to stop myself, you know. And 768 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: when I was ready to stop myself, believe or not, 769 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: I never picked it back up. June June of two 770 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:46,279 Speaker 1: thousand and ten, Sorry, June of two thousand and one 771 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: is when I stopped. So I'm going on twenty years 772 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 1: this June. No, and again, is it hard, Yes, because 773 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 1: I'm just one one year away from being back to 774 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,600 Speaker 1: where I was at before. But the best thing I 775 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 1: do know about this is that I know the knowledge 776 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: of it now. I know if I take a hit 777 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,279 Speaker 1: that I'm liable to give all my jewelry, away upon 778 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: my cars and different things better than in the beginning, 779 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,479 Speaker 1: where you know, you knew I knew anyone. I didn't 780 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: know anyone had done cracked or real cocaine, you know 781 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: when I first started. So I had to kind of, 782 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: you know, feel my way through, you know, alcohol because 783 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,279 Speaker 1: my dad was a big drinker. I knew I never 784 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: wanted to drink a lot of alcohol. To this day, 785 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 1: I don't drink, you know, so so things presented to 786 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 1: me I kind of washed and filtered out, you know, 787 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,879 Speaker 1: to do it in the bad. That was just something 788 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,880 Speaker 1: brock to me that I didn't know anything about. 789 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 3: Chris, Thank you so much for all your insights and 790 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 3: your reflections. 791 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:57,200 Speaker 5: Thank you, Len Bias and Mixed Legacy. The interviews was 792 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 5: produced by Dave Ngrady and Don Marcus. Any fall, shot, hurt, 793 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 5: Becaustova Lend Bias. A Mixed Legacy is distributed No No 794 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 5: by the Eights. I never remember me. 795 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:08,839 Speaker 3: I hope they do the same as La