WEBVTT - Part One: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard? 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:02.880 Also media. 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.720 I watched a man vomiting a casino pit last night. 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:12.560 Was beautiful. Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, a podcast 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:18.079 that's this week hosted from sunny Las Vegas, Nevada. We've 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.200 got a real special one for you this week. We've 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:27.840 got an episode about somebody who embodies everything that is 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.960 meaningful about like where we are in America today, like 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:35.440 both our complete divorce as a culture from any sort 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:39.400 of shared truth, our acceptance of all sorts of like weird, 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.320 unhinged metaphysical realities. The guy who's probably going to be 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.240 running Medicaid in the near future. We all owe them 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:51.600 to our topic this week. Our subject this week someone 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:54.920 you all have heard of, Oprah Winfrey. And because Oprah 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.880 is such a big topic and honestly kind of a 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:00.400 scary person to go after, this might be the most 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:05.240 powerful bastard we've talked about. I brought in some very 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:08.840 special guests. First off, let's say a warm welcome to 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.800 the great Bridget Todd Bridget, Welcome to the show. 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:14.800 I want to say it like Oprah Dove, thank you 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.480 for having me. I actually has that thing. 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:20.479 I just knew, I just knew you were the right 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:21.479 person for this job. 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:25.720 I don't even know Bridget I do. 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:27.960 I was gonna say, Bridget is the host of There 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.720 Are No Girls on the Internet, and that's right, and 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.960 also just one of my favorite people in the entire world. 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:35.160 That's right. That's right. 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:36.080 She is here. 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:38.839 And we are so lucky. Who is our second guest today? 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.039 Because we couldn't have just one for. 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:43.520 Oh no, no, for Oprah. You got to bring out that. 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:45.160 You got to have a double barrel, you know, if 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:48.480 you're going if you're going for a grizzly bear. And 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.680 our second round of buckshot this week is. 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:52.240 Andrew t. 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:57.920 Thanks for being carry Andrew. Andrew is the host. 0:01:57.720 --> 0:01:58.760 Of you is this racist? 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:01.440 That's right? How's it going? 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.080 We're gonna need to ask that a lot in these episodes. 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:05.760 The answer is always gonna. 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:08.000 Be, yeah, boy, it is. 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:10.600 There's a lot of stuff to discuss there, Robert. 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.000 Robert and I have been talking about doing the Oprah 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.560 episodes for what feels like a year and the subject 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:19.080 of like who do we have on for this? Like 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.280 how like guess who do we have on? 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:22.480 What do we do? 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.400 Because like no matter what, like I mean, I I 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:30.320 read Oprah's bio in like middle school and like she 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:35.560 yeah comes off with her like origin story as like heroic. 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:40.000 She's deeply sympathetic in many ways, and these first two 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.160 episodes are going you're gonna be sympathetic to her more 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:45.040 often than not because we are covering a lot of 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.640 her childhood in these The things that she does that 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:49.840 are awful, and the reason why she deserves to be 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.640 on the show is not because she's personally odious right 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.120 in like her personal interactions usually like I've run into 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.040 a bunch of like reddits where people who worked on 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:02.360 the show talking more often than not, people who worked 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:04.959 on the Oprah Winfrey shows say like, we were paid well, 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:08.079 it was a reasonably good gig. You know. You can 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.000 certainly find people being like a she was a dick 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.120 to me when I was like a barista or whatever. 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.560 There's stories like that, but I wouldn't hang an episode 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.600 on it. It's more her level of influence is so 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:22.240 titanic and the things that she has chosen, she's chosen 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.720 to push a number of people who are We have 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:28.240 done two part episodes on in the past, Doctor Oz 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.200 Doctor Phil both owed their careers and the intense amounts 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.960 of damage that they've done to society, to Oprah Winfrey. 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:37.600 Neither of those guys are in anyone's radar if it's 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:41.200 not for Oprah Winfrey. John of God, that Brazilian mystic 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:45.760 who raped and molested thousands of people, owes a huge 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.160 amount of her career in prominence to Oprah Winfrey. There's 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:51.760 a number of cases like that. She's tied in massively 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:56.440 with a satanic panic. She's tied in massively with a 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:58.600 number of different like myths like we're going to talk about, 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:00.720 like rainbow parties and the like. So we've got a 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.040 lot of fun stuff today. I do want to start 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:08.080 by asking Bridget Andrew, what are y'all's histories with Oprah. 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:09.120 Oh, that's a good question. 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:09.840 Oh. 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:11.560 I mean, I have to say, I'm really glad that 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.680 you framed the Oprah conversation the way that you did, 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.360 because I almost have like a love hate with Oprah. Yeah, 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:19.960 you can't. First of all, you can't be a black 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:24.080 woman and not have some deep admiration for Oprah. And 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:27.080 I would say it's only been recently that I have 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:30.039 really had to have my come to Jesus moment of 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:34.800 some of the bad actors. Charlatan's hucksters and just like 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.440 bastards that she has made famous and now we're sort 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:40.680 of stuck with. So it's sort of a love hate Oprah. 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:42.320 Like I did a report on her when I was 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.159 in fifth grade where I had to dress like her. 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:49.000 Yeah, you're, weirdly enough, not the only friend of mine 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.440 who did a report on Oprah for when they were 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:52.080 in school. 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.440 Yeah. Well yeah, I think there's like an element of 0:04:57.520 --> 0:04:59.640 like it's a little bit like Obama. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.880 You're like, it's good that there's a. 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:07.279 Different type of like like a like a black person 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.520 being able to achieve the highest ranks of whatever. 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.880 The wealthiest. She's the wealthiest person in media period, like 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:18.719 wealthiest purely media star, two billion, something like that. 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.479 But there's also like some version of like having to 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:24.719 so you're like kind of grading on a curve. It's 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:28.960 like for a billionaire, she's probably pretty good, you know, 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:34.159 relatively speaking, I mean, but she has you know, she 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.200 has all the trap. It's the same with Obama, where 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:40.360 you're like, every president has committed crimes against humanity. 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:41.960 That's just the job. 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.440 But like so for a while, you're like it's sort 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:47.960 of nice that he's like, you know, he is who 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.440 he is. But then you're like, just she weren't doing 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:52.760 all these terrible things. 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.520 As we'll talk about one of the complicated things about Oprah. 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.480 There's a bunch of stuff that really is very sinister 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.320 about her impact. And then when you whenever you're reading 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:04.640 the books and stuff, the critical bios of her, the 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.479 things they choose to go after her for are always like, well, actually, 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:09.920 I don't think she did anything wrong. There, Like, there's 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.360 a lot of very weird she's she has she has 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.080 also had to You can't talk about the things she's 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:18.680 done bad without also defending her because she has come 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:23.119 under fire for so many insanely unreasonable things as well. 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:27.039 I also did an Oprah book report, probably in the 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:31.000 fifth grade, And you know, she was on my television 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.000 for my mom watched a lot of Oprah. 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:36.440 There was a lot of Oprah in my household growing up. 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.680 And then like a few years ago, I was working 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:43.680 on a project with Jamie Loftus and we went back 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.920 and we were looking for like a specific Oprah episode 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:51.160 to reference in something, and just the show episode titles 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.440 were so triggering. Oh yeah, and then it's and then 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:56.599 Robert and Bridget you were both at you were both 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:58.479 of the DNC and Chicago, but I don't think you 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:00.480 guys were both there for Oprah speech? 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:00.719 Were you. 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:03.359 Speech? 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:05.279 I was in the audience. I remember it very well. 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:05.760 Yeah. 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.240 I was there for that, and it was like the 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:13.160 most like like detached I felt from an audience in 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:15.800 my life. I was like, I was like, oh, no. 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:20.280 Sophy, do you remember. I feel like she got I 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.720 completely agree with you about the tenor and the vibe 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.400 of the speech. However, maybe it was just my section. 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.480 I feel like people were losing their fucking minds when 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.040 she came out and started talking like yeah, I was like, 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:34.120 are we hearing the same speech? 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:37.080 Like it truly I had what I'm saying. That's why. 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:39.080 That's why I was like I was. I was like, 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:41.200 I was like, really, we're still, We're still. And then 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.840 again with there were several people that I was like, Oh, 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.920 these are known horrible humans and people are going Pharaoh 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.520 for them as well. But yeah, Oprah Oprah. 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:55.000 Cheers were It's hard to get across because there's really 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:59.760 no one on earth like this, how cross at least 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:02.720 first certain kind of for a certain like category of person, 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:06.120 particularly like middle aged moms from the nineties through the 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.080 through the aughts. It's amazing the degree to which Oprah 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:12.760 completely cut across like political and cultural boundaries. You know, 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.400 Like my mom was a very conservative white lady in 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:19.080 Texas loved Oprah. Oprah was always on and like that 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:21.720 was the case with every mom that I knew as 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:26.160 a kid, Like Oprah was just like an institution, you know, 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.679 like it's it's it's really And I don't think she's 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:32.520 even quite like that today, just because like things have 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.720 gotten considerably more fragmented in the media ecosystem, and so 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:38.280 one of the things that's interesting about her is like 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:40.720 when we talk about her influence, there probably won't ever 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.920 be a single person that influential again in the same way. 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:47.400 Yeah, Bridget at the DNC, when she came out, were 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:48.440 you sitting or standing? 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:50.120 Ugh? 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:52.880 I wish I could say that I like turned my back, 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.000 you know, I gave her a standing ovation even from 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:57.000 my like big talk. 0:08:57.960 --> 0:08:59.920 But you were you in the standing section. 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:01.960 Or this ex I was in the seated section. I was. 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:02.839 So here's my question. 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:05.400 When she came out, did you immediately look under your chair? 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.080 Like, yeah, like Oprah, did you leave me? 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:09.760 You get a car? 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:11.839 I wish Oprah. 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:13.920 Came out at an instinctly was like, is there a gift? 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:15.960 There was, There was not. 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:18.720 Honestly though, if anybody could arrange that, it would be 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:19.880 Oprah exactly. 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.559 I should let you know. I've bought you both cars. 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:25.920 They're not They're not they're geoprisms. They are not like 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.000 these are really like burdens for both of you. 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.680 Robert's books. It's really just like a. 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:48.280 Used to offload I'm underwater on a deal. In the 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:51.520 spring of twenty twenty four, Oprah Winfrey participated in a 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:55.480 three hour special sponsored by weight Watchers called Making the Shift, 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:59.600 alongside several other celebrity panelists. She talked about the failures 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:03.840 and shortcomings of America's toxic diet culture and took some 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.920 degree of ownership for her role in perpetuating it, calling 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.400 herself a major contributor and saying I've been a major 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:12.600 contributor to it. I cannot tell you how many weight 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:14.560 loss shows and makeovers I've done, and they have been 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:17.880 a staple since I've been working in television. And even 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.920 this statement, which is fairly unequivocal, underplays the reality of 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:24.760 the situation, because it's probably accurate to say that no 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:27.560 one human being alive has had more of an impact 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.960 on how Americans talk about dieting and weight loss than 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.880 Oprah Winfrey. For the entirety of the time that everyone 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:35.920 on this call has been alive, she has been the 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.959 most public face of diet culture, and tens of thousands 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.520 of Americans followed along as she gained and lost weight 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.880 in the public eye. One of the biggest regrets of 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.800 her career came in nineteen ninety eight as a result 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.360 of this, and I'm talking about the famous wagon of 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:54.480 Fat incident, which was precisely what it sounds like. Winfrey 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.040 launched a new season of her hit daytime talk show 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.640 by pulling out a red wagon filled with sixty seven 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.160 pounds a fat, which is how much she'd lost on 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.560 her most recent diet. And because this is kind of 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.840 what Oprah says is in her view, the lowest moment 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.200 of her career, I do want to start with playing 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:12.800 a clip from this because it represents the intersection of 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.240 a couple of very complicated things we're going to have 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:16.800 to dissect in these episodes. 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.640 Oh my god, Now let me tell you. 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:26.520 I lost. 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.760 I have lost as of this morning. As of this morning, 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:36.720 sixty seven pounds since July seventh, sixty seven pounds and 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:42.200 thirty inches from my bust, my waist Emma hoops seven 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:46.440 twelve eleven. I think it is. And this let me 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:48.240 tell you those of you who are starting dieting or 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:51.600 dining a little bit, this is what sixty seven pounds 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:55.000 of fat looks like. I can't I can't lift it. 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.920 Now when you talk about Jimmy, is this gross or what. 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:01.360 Okay to me? 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:02.199 That I can't lift it? 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:03.520 But I used to carry it around. 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:05.920 She's definitely lifting. 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.200 The radio flyer people. Do you think they were like 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:11.680 that in there? 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:15.960 Oh god, I remember that clip like it was yesterday 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:17.560 when you as soon as you set it up, I 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.600 closed my eyes and I can like I remember it 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.640 crystal clear, Like what a moment in culture. 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.480 Yeah, and she does look great in that video. No 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.800 one can deny that. And it's interesting to me first 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.920 off that this is this is such like a especially 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:35.960 in like the critical reading on Oprah. This is such 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.560 like an apocal moment, right, like how how toxic this was? 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.959 What a bad you know moment this was in terms 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:47.480 of like cause like inculcating toxic attitudes and American you 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.280 know culture visa v weight loss and how like tame 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.040 It seems honestly in a lot of ways considering like 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.040 where we are now just in general with like the TV, 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.960 how much like worse ship there is every single day. 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.360 But it's also interesting because like this is an easy 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:08.240 moment to hang on as toxic. I actually don't I 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.880 have trouble blaming Oprah the for this, even though she's 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.200 definitely contributing to some really ugly aspects of diet culture. 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:18.480 As we'll talk about, the way she gets attacked and 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.080 like focused on in the media over her weight is 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:25.760 probably unique. Like I don't know that anyone else has 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:30.280 been kind of anyone else's personal weight has been obsessed 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:33.319 over to the same degree that Oprah's has. It certainly 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.120 was in the late nineties. So yeah, as we'll talk about, 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.959 I don't see this as like a low point for her, 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.000 but this is probably what she would name as like 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.679 the absolute worst thing in her career. 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:49.280 Wait, and maybe I'm missing something, so and she would 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.760 say that, or she has said that because it's just 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:53.000 like a crass stunt. 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:56.680 It's and she has started to talk about the degree 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.040 to which she thinks that diet culture and the are 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.840 obsession with that and weight loss is unhealthy, and that 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:03.760 she was a big part of that, right like she 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.560 started talking about it now, she started talking about that 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:10.120 in participation with weight watchers. So I don't know, I 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.240 don't know how much credit you want to give her, 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:16.280 right like clearly done in good faith. Yeah, maybe not 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:18.600 totally done in good maybe more of just a pivot. 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:21.680 But I will just say, as someone who is like 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:26.520 a little more outside of the Oprah sphere, I think, 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.960 compared to everyone else here, I feel like I didn't 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.680 particularly perceive, like I hear what you're saying about, like 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.720 she was like one of the faces of it, was 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.880 so pervasive everywhere. Not to like completely let her off 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:41.800 the hook, but it is a little just like that's 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.480 what you did when you were like especially marketing to 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:47.680 middle aged women. 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.640 But it's partly what you did because Oprah was so 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:55.440 successful at it, Like she likes it's a road that 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.800 was there because she bush whacked it, you know, right, right. 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.440 Yeah, I actually have a a similar take. I think 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:03.960 that why she regrets this is not because of like 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:08.280 participating in this harmful, toxic diet culture YadA YadA, YadA, 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.800 which she was. I think it was sort of throwing 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.000 red meat to the people Robert that you were just 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:17.640 describing who obsessed about her weight Personally, I think that, Yeah, 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:20.360 it's probably a low point because she was engaging in 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:24.720 this like highly personal public conversation about her weight and 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:28.000 like playing into that. I don't I would probably I 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:29.840 don't know that she was would say like, oh, I 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.800 shouldn't have been participating in diet culture written large. 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.520 Yeah right, yeah, yeah, I think that that's that that 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:38.800 might be a fair critique, but we'll talk about it. 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.120 But first, for these for these couple of episodes, we're 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:45.280 going to really be getting into like the parts of 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:47.840 Oprah's crew that are mostly or life that are mostly 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:51.320 like a lot more empathetic, although you know, there's there's 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:53.960 there's some darkness there too, mainly in like the way 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:57.040 in which she has kind of lied and judged up 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:01.880 some aspects of her background because it makes a better story. Yeah, 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.480 this will all be interesting to talk about. So in 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:06.680 twenty twenty one, one of my sources for this is 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:10.560 a book that Oprah released about trauma, much of which 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:12.960 she discussed through the lens of her own childhood trauma. 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.160 She co authored What Happened to You with doctor Bruce Perry, 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.280 an American psychiatrist who specializes in child trauma, and from 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:23.800 what I can tell, is like one of the less 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:28.080 toxic doctors that Oprah is famous for launching to start them, 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:32.920 although again that doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot. In 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.560 an interview about that book for today dot Com, Oprah 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.360 posited that her childihood trauma was responsible for her low 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.480 moments like the wagon a fat incident. I think that 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:44.800 certainly all of the feelings of not fitting in of 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:47.200 my disease to please, or feeling like if I don't 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.200 do what everyone wants me to do, I'm going to 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.360 be rejected somehow what I was afraid of in every instance, 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:54.520 I'm going to get a whipping. I'm afraid I'm going 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.480 to get that whipping. Thankfully, She adds, the decades of 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.480 time she spent processing her pain has given her sort 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:03.960 of what she calls post traumatic wisdom that she thinks 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:06.480 makes her a good spokesperson for every kind of suffering 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:08.399 in a mirror or for a lot many kinds of 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:13.120 suffering in American society today, right like because of my trauma, 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.800 That's why I've done some of the things that I regret. 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.320 It's my disease to please. It's like my fear of 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.560 not fitting in. But because I have that trauma, I'm 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.040 also a perfect spokesperson for many of these kinds of 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.439 like traumas in American society. And the fact that she 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.119 thinks that way is a really important prism to understand 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.600 what she does, because Oprah in a lot of ways, 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.000 if you look at especially the first ten or fifteen 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.760 years of her show, it's a mirror in some ways 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:40.080 of like the Jerry Springer Show. Like they're literally doing 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.560 some of the same episodes, bringing like clansmen out, you know, 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.120 to have like big arguments and fights on stage. There's 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.919 a lot of like, you know, bringing out people in 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:51.560 relationships who are having conflicts. It is that kind of 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:54.680 like trash teed TV. And then in the late nineties 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:58.119 she starts to pivot, and largely the thing that she 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:02.600 pivots around is her taking her own childhood trauma, her 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.720 own experiences of like physical and sexual abuse and whatnot, 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:10.040 and using that as sort of a lens through which 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:14.640 to explore those things in American society. And there's both 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:16.760 a degree to which there are some really important issues 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:21.040 that started getting attention because Oprah used herself as a 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:25.360 lens to kind of like highlight them. And also there's 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:31.359 this sense of like almost profiteering from the same things, 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:35.760 which which makes this very complicated to discuss it. 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:38.560 I feel like it's so weird too, because it's like 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.320 at the time, as you're describing it, I probably wouldn't 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.240 have perceived it as such, but like we're also in 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.919 an era where like influencer and just like you like 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.680 that is the product that everyone, you know, the children 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:56.040 today are very casually selling. Yeah, it's almost like the 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:59.560 concept of like selling out for like between the nineties 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:03.040 and the two of it. It's like, you know, it's 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:05.840 not something that you would bad any at everything you're 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:06.800 describing right now. 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:11.199 No, no, no, But it was really unique at the time, right. 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.119 Yes, it does seem like she was like very ahead 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.520 of the game on this, like oh yes, I think 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.320 it's like the influencer bread and butter today, But back then, 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:20.960 I mean I do think that it set her apart 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:23.560 from like your Jerry Springer's, your Jenny Jones is to 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:27.760 really put these kind of trauma like it was like 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:31.120 authenticity before that was a thing we expected from TV 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:32.000 show hosts. 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:34.840 Yep, that's exactly I think that's exactly it, Bridgid. And 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.840 what's kind of undeniable is that she was able to 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:41.760 kind of get access to a lot of stories of 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.840 people's hurting by from her own background of suffering. Her 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.919 old executive producer Diane Hudson once told people profiles quote, 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:54.400 vulnerability is the key to Oprah's success. People appreciate when 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:56.480 you can be honest. It lets them feel more comfortable 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.480 about themselves. She's got this special kind of connective ability. 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.160 I see happen over and over again. Everyone who meets 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:04.680 her feels like, oh, now I know her. And that's 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:07.560 what you're talking about, that kind of authenticity being the 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:10.879 buzzword that it is today. It all really starts with Oprah, 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:15.080 and yeah, it is one. It's both. I think there 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:17.240 is a lot of vulnerability that she's been willing to 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:20.240 put out there. But at the same time, Oprah's not 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:25.240 like Oprah is a conscious crafter of her own image 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:26.240 and her own story. 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:26.520 Right. 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.840 She knows what she's doing. She's not like a naive 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:32.520 in this kind of situation, in this kind of scenario, 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.800 and that muddles the waters too, because some of this 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:43.120