WEBVTT - Trauma Rollercoasters 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:15.040 Welcome to woke AF with me Danielle Moody. This month, 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.080 I'm showcasing some amazing artists whose work is on display 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:20.760 here in New York at the Shed Cultural Center as 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.639 part of their Open Call program. This week, I'm proud 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:28.280 to present my conversation with Leandre Lesour, creator of There 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.560 Is No Movement Without Rhythm, a video performance fusion piece 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:35.960 about the effects rhythm has on our bodies. Leandre and 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.280 I got into discussing what it is like to exist 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:42.920 at the intersection of blackness, queerness, and womanhood identities which 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:46.640 are all typically politicized by audiences and critics, and the 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:50.480 process of producing art in this incredibly difficult time. Since 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.120 it's the start of Pride, I am sharing my entire 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:56.240 interview with Leandre Lesore with all of you today, and 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:58.760 you can hear many more like this, including the next 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.760 featured artists in the Open Call series, by supporting me 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:08.320 on Patreon at patreon dot com slash woke af Enjoy, folks. 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.959 I am so excited that I'm having the opportunity to 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:16.720 welcome so many amazing black artists to woke a f daily. 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:21.240 I am very excited to introduce you all to Leandra Lassour, 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:25.040 who is an artist that celebrates blackness, contemplates the experience 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:29.560 of invisibility and seeks to dismantle and reclaim stereotypes surrounding 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:33.959 black female identity, among other subject matters, and has an 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:39.680 upcoming exhibit entitled there Is No Movement Without Rhythm. Leandre, 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:41.760 thank you so much for making the time to join 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:46.040 Woke A f I want to open up with first 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:50.320 asking how are you feeling these days? You know, I 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:53.120 think that I will say that as a black queer 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:57.480 woman living in America over the past year and a 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:03.240 half has been a series of trauma roller coasters. Living 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.440 as black and queer and female in this body for 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:10.639 my entire life has been a journey of joy, resilience 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:15.360 and the purpose and desire to take up space. And so, 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:18.760 what has it been like creating this body of work 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:25.320 for you during these incredibly trying times? Yeah, no, thank 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:27.440 you for that question. It feels like a check in, 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:31.000 and I will say that it's been rough. I mean, 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:33.840 you know, we talk about the things that happened last year, 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:35.960 but I think there needs to be well there. I 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.480 feel like there is a realization, especially probably for you 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.200 as well, that this has been going on for some time. 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:43.040 I mean, you know, since I was a little girl. 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.000 I can you know, think about and talk about specifically 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:49.919 about moments where I've felt this kind of extreme displacement 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.720 and not necessarily understanding my place in the world and 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:57.000 how I could exist freely. So the creation of this work, 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:59.240 for me, and I mean all of my artwork, to 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.960 be honest, has been a way for me to process, 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:05.960 has been a way for me to appeal, and has 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:08.320 been a way for me to kind of make a 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:10.840 mark and make a place in the world for myself 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:14.760 and provide myself a way to amplify my voice. So 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.400 it's been tremendously Even though we're right now going through 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:21.919 some really rough times in the world, the making work 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.480 and being an artist right now has been for me 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.800 kind of a sign of hope and also just for 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:32.600 me a tremendous like lift in my spirit. So I'm 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:36.280 grateful for that, you know that way of just speaking 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:39.720 in terms of making art, I have always been a 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:43.880 person that has deeply appreciated art, but specifically art created 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:49.080 by black artists. I know that for some they really 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:54.880 push back against the inherent politicization of black art by 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.200 just by virtue of being black. Our art is seen 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:03.480 as a body politick. What is your feeling about that, 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:07.320 about being viewed as a black artist or for your 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:11.600 work because it looks at the black female identity, which 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:16.760 we know has traditionally been what the mule of America, right, 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:21.320 the workhorse of the world. How do you understand the 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:25.480 politics of the art and the art itself. Yeah, no, 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.200 that's a great question. It's interesting because for so long, 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:30.240 a lot of people used to tell me, you know, 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:35.080 my work was specifically speaking about identity politics in this way, 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.680 and I used to kind of shy away from accepting 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.480 that or claiming that. And it wasn't until I started 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:44.720 reading works or excuse me, the Kombahi River Collective their 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.920 statement on identity politics, and they actually coined that phrase 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.560 in a way where I was like, you know, this 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:53.760 is something that I don't need to shy away from that, 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:55.599 I don't need to not claim this is a part 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:57.560 of who I am and just by my mere existence, 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:01.159 this is something that I'm speaking to and so within 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:04.840 my art I believe, I truly believe as an artist 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.320 like I have to be in a lot of ways 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:11.320 political and what I'm speaking on it is inherent to 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:15.640 my existence as a black queer woman to continue to 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.120 talk about those things, and even if I'm not directly 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.680 speaking about it, are within the works directly speaking about it. 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.000 I'm talking about the things around it, the things that 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:28.320 you know, have kind of allowed me to see myself 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:30.640 in a certain way and the ways in which I've 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.640 been able to navigate that. And so by me processing 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.480 that within my own work, maybe that is allowing someone 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:40.400 as a viewer to start to grasp their own processing 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.160 and maybe even build their own tools on how they 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.400 can also navigate the politics around just being black. M 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.600 There was a question that was asked by a white 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.200 anti racist trainer and she had asked that, you know, 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.520 this is back in the nineteen seventies, and forgive me 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.240 because I can't remember her name at this particular moment, 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:03.000 but she asked a room full of white people, right, 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.440 you know, if they believed in racism, and I'm sure 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.400 you've seen this video the clip, and they, you know, 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:10.760 they're like no, no, no, And then she's like, okay, 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.760 so would you want to be black for a day 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:18.640 and raise your hand? And none of them raise their hand, right, 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.880 And so there has always been this sense that there 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:28.120 is a profound grief that is associated with our blackness, 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:32.320 and yet for me, I feel like there is a 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:36.479 supreme radiance that is attached to our blackness and that 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.680 you will never find a community of people that is 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:45.680 steeped in more grace. Right, how do you understand or 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:51.080 are able to articulate through your art the balance of 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:55.440 the joy and the trauma and the gradiations in between 0:06:55.880 --> 0:07:00.120 of what it means to be black? Yeah, that was 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.719 something I had to ask myself early on. I felt 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.960 like my work had a lot of this inherent rage 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.960 in it because I was speaking directly from from experience. 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.280 And when I talk about experience, a lot of people ask, well, 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:17.120 what are the like major things that you've experienced in 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:21.360 terms of trauma that have allowed you to have these 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:23.960 kind of lived experiences that have brought on this rage. 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:27.240 And for me, it wasn't about necessarily these big moments 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.200 or big events that took place, But like you said, 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:34.360 there's this collective memory that is within our bodies, and 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.440 our bodies kind of keep that and I had to 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.800 really understand like how my body was like taking all 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.320 of these like ways I was seeing myself through media, 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.640 visual media, and just like through the news cycles and 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.760 all of these projections. Even though it wasn't directly onto 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.960 me or directly said to me, or me directly experiencing it, 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:58.120 it was something that collectively was part of my memory 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:00.280 of who I am as a as a black person, 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.000 And so I had to tell myself with them the 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:06.880 creation of my art, you know, I can't if I'm 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.440 speaking about that. I can talk about that trauma, but 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.840 am I perpetuating this cycle of violence and trauma by 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:15.840 creating work that directly talks about that? And so for 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:17.680 me it was about, Okay, well, then how do I 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:20.120 create that balance? And so I started thinking about the 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:23.160 other parts of my life that people don't necessarily see 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:25.920 or hear about or understand, you know, like black love 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:30.040 and black joy, and how radical that is in moving 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:34.959 us and creating this buoyancy where we can exist this rage, 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.760 but we can also, like you said, radiate and have 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:42.640 this beauty and this grace amongst us that really allows 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:45.640 us to live and to process how we exist, but 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.640 to also just like exist and thrive in the way 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.280 that we are with everything that happens amongst us. So 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.320 for me that was really important, and I think right now, 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.840 to be honest, in the core of what my work is, 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:02.200 I'm thinking a lot about we intake violence every day 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.080 on such a high level, and so how are we 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:07.800 not just as artists, but as human beings, how are 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:11.040 we taking those things that are violent and looking for 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.120 ways to transform that into something that we can take 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.760 on and still be able to move forward with our 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:21.320 own potential and create spaces that really make room for 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:26.120 this kind of peaceful foundation or make room for this 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.840 like meditative process where we could really bring joy back 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.679 into our lives. And that's been at the core of 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:35.320 my practice, is really thinking about that transformation that's happening 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:39.000 within myself. But then whatever I touch, whatever I create, 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:41.360 I can push that out into the world as well. 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.840 I love that so much. My mother is a yogi 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.720 and onto a yoga studio here in New York, and 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:53.880 she talks to me constantly about not taking in the 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:57.480 negativity that we experience in the world as black people, 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:01.280 as women on a cellular level. And I remember the 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.040 first time that she said that to me, like, do 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:07.880 not take this in, Danielle, your rage and your angst, 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:11.079 do not allow it to attach to your cellular level, 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:14.640 because then that is what your body will produce, right, 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.120 And it is about moving outside of living in this 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:23.600 fight or flight space, right, which is honestly pretty much 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.840 the two alternatives that the world presents to us. And 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.320 I feel like, but through music and through art and 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:34.400 through dance and through so many different mediums that we're 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:38.920 able to imagine, to dream and create something that is 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:43.160 outside of what society is saying. You can either fight 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:47.199 to the death or you can flee. And we're like, well, 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:49.600 what if you float? What if you imagine? What if 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:56.000 you dream? Talk to me about music and about the 0:10:56.040 --> 0:11:02.160 creation of this music around West Africa in vibes vibration 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:07.000 and why that spoke to you. Yeah, And I love 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:10.000 what you just said about this imagining because I think 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:12.720 that that happens when I'm in the space where I'm 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.760 listening to music and I'm listening to certain beats and rhythms. 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:17.880 Music has been a huge part of my practice for 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.960 some time, and I've always been questioning, well, like, why 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:26.960 do I always come back to particular sounds and particular rhythms, 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:29.319 And that brings me to this space where I can 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:33.720 really feel and experience those feelings and have really moments 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:38.079 with whatever I'm trying to process. So I started looking 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:43.520 at specific artists, jazz artists in particular that I, you know, 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.000 love and that I've been listening to since I was 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:49.800 a little girl. And one artist in particular, Pharaoh Sanders, 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:52.760 was someone that you know, I have like all of 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.280 his vinyl records. Was listening to all of his music 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.040 and started doing a lot of research on where a 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:00.760 lot of the different sounds, like the symbol he was using, 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.280 and why was he using all of these different instruments 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:07.200 together in this kind of ensemble. And there was a 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:13.200 kind of connection to Western African tradition and music with 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:18.120 Nahwa traditions, And so I started listening to Nahwah ceremonies 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.960 and music, and all of the instruments that they were 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.680 they were using were instruments that I found not just 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:26.199 in Pharall Sanders work, but in other jazz musicians work 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.520 like Archie Shep for instance. But then also thinking about 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.480 like the house music and how kind of those symbols 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:37.000 and sounds were reverberating as well, and then even with 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:41.080 Black gospel and thinking about these ceremonies, how they take place, 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:44.920 and how voices amplified those were all things that were 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:47.840 just kind of coming along through this research I was doing, 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.480 and so I started thinking about the ways in which 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.959 I was using music and how all of those different 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.359 forms of music were very influential in how I processed 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.520 my own feelings and the the ways that I reimagine 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.559 the spaces that I was in. So I was like, 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:08.280 this is something I need to translate into a work 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.080 so that someone can also experience this in the same 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.440 way I'm experiencing it. And that's where this project came about. 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.480 You know, there's no movement without rhythm. Thinking about all 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.280 of these different sounds and rhythms and how they have 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:26.080 this really beautiful way of transcending us to another space, 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:29.520 and also thinking about a part of the project that 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:31.720 I'm working with. There's this kind of clip that I 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:35.000 put in from Sunraw where he's talking about this process 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.800 of us being not real, you know, our body's not 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.200 being from here, but also like our spirits not being 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.280 of this place, and that being a way for us 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.959 to kind of expand, and in that expansion, that being 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.000 a way for us to fully feel present with who 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:56.360 we actually are. And so I think about this form 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.600 of music and the way that the sounds kind of 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.560 trans and it brings us outside of this physical vessel 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.560 into another realm. And in that realm, we're able to 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.680 fully expand and fully understand who we are and have 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:12.240 the space to actually exist freely. And for me, that 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:15.520 feels very profound and very radical. When we're thinking about 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:17.720 this idea of care, and we're thinking about this idea 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:19.840 of love, and we're thinking about the ways in which 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:24.640 we can inhabit joy, all of those things feel like 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:30.560 they are necessary and really really processing that you just 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:34.680 spoke to my whole soul. You just spoke to my 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.600 whole soul, because all I have been saying to friends 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:44.840 is that I need for What I miss the most 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:50.800 during this pandemic time is live music. I miss. I 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:56.880 miss what it feels like to experience beats and rhythm 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:02.240 and base penetrating through you as a collective. And when 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.920 you talk about house music like so for me, and 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.840 everybody knows this about me, particularly my neighbors that live downstairs, 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:20.960 how much how much gospel house music speaks to my soul. 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:25.160 And I think about it because I think about our 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:28.440 bodies being made up primarily of water. I think about 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:32.120 the vibration about how why we undulate in certain ways 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:36.000 because of the vibrations and how they connect to our bodies, 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:39.000 which are these bodies of water. And I think about 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.320 that often. And what I've been talking about a lot 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.600 on WOK A F two and you you spoke about 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.960 this in terms of expansiveness, in terms of not being 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.800 of this vessel, is that I've been talking about times 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:56.600 of trauma and how they break us open, and that 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:01.120 in order to expand, something must be broken open to 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:08.000 create more space. Cracks aren't just about this dismantling of 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:12.320 this perfect thing, this perfect vessel, but it is about 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:16.720 breaking open and the cracks allowing there to be flow right. 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.640 And I think about where the opportunity is that we 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.760 are currently living in, in all of the obstacles that 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.440 we are going through, about moving from this kind of 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:31.840 container where all people weren't equitable, all people can't fit, 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.280 and breaking it open, and what would it mean to 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:38.760 create a mosaic instead where you're honoring the shattered pieces, 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.120 where you're honoring all of the pieces right. But in 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:44.760 a mosaic all things can fit right because there is 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:48.200 so much more space that's been created outside of the 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:50.880 origination of the vessel. So when you set all of 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.040 those things, I'm like, there's like all of these images 0:16:54.120 --> 0:17:02.240 going through my head, you know, thinking out rhythm and 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.520 how we move together as a collective. What are you 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:10.520 hoping that people walk away with after experiencing your art? 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.679 What are you hoping that they gain from this installation, 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:17.000 from this work? Yeah, I think the main thing for 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:21.040 me is I really like to think of a lot 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.720 with my work about this idea of confrontation, but not 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:29.400 a confrontation to in any way make someone feel uncomfortable. 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:34.639 A confrontation to really question your presence and question within 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:38.040 that presence if you're really seeing and if you're really 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:42.400 listening and not just what we look at surface level, 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:46.040 but a deep seeing in a deep listening. And I 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:50.200 think for me it's really important because within a lot 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:52.960 of my work, I'm the main subject. I'm at the forefront, 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.760 and for that reason, it's because I'm confronting, you know, 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.600 the image that has been projected onto like who you 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:02.919 think I should be, who you claim me to be, 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:06.320 But this is who I am presenting myself as. And 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.479 with that, I know I'm also carrying the identity of 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.160 so many other people that came before me, but also 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:14.120 so many other people that are here right now with 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.919 me in my community. You know that that carry the 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.959 identity of blackness, that carry the identity of queerness, and 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:23.640 also that carry the identity of womanhood. And so with 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.119 the work, I'm hoping that people actually are confronted and 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:30.680 they question their ways of seeing, they question their ways 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.159 of listening. And with that questioning, they also kind of 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:37.440 challenge their their privilege. Whether they're black with or they're white, 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:41.040 it doesn't matter about race, but challenge that inherit privilege 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.040 that we all have within us. And I feel like 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.000 for me that's really important because with that challenge that 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:50.200 could really bring people to within themselves kind of break open, 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:54.919 allow for an easier flow in connection with someone else, 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:59.040 and that can open up this you know, this connection 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:01.120 and threat of empathy, and that for me is really 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:05.200 really important within the work I'm creating. Have you found 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:09.960 that during this time your creative process because of the 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.879 times that we're living in, has it shifted? Has it 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:17.800 been different? Have you noticed ways in which you are 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.760 experiencing and expressing this art. If you had created it 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.200 in twenty nineteen or twenty eighteen, it would have been 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:29.600 different than it is now. Yeah, I mean to be honest, 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.679 I think with everything that's happened with the pandemic, we 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:36.240 have slowed down quite a bit. And I feel like 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.119 a lot of the work I've been creating for a 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.639 while now, I've always been thinking about, like, how are 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.399 people taking this in? Like I'm really forcing you to 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:46.560 kind of slow down and take it in, and I'm 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:50.399 confronting that as well. And I feel like with the pandemic, 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:53.440 because people have slowed down, I feel like people are 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:58.400 a little bit more, They're not reluctant anymore to do that, 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:01.440 And for me, that's been and really nice to see 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.680 that kind of transition happened. So I feel like it 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:07.720 is a little bit changed in that way, But outside 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.359 of that, the context of it has always been the same. 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.040 You know. I've always been speaking directly, you know, to 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:16.280 who I am directly to, you know, these different modes 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:20.120 of blackness, in the various ways of being black, and 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:22.359 that has never changed. And so I just think the 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.640 way that people are taking in and listening and seeing 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:29.240 has maybe adjusted quite a bit based on the pandemic 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.040 and based on this idea of us all as a 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:36.280 collective community slowing down. Do you have my last question 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:39.240 for you? Although I feel like genuinely I could speak 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:41.800 to you for there for a very long time, do 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:44.960 another one later? Right, I'm like, what are you doing? 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:49.440 Do you find yourself as you've been navigating this space, 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:53.840 creating this body of work, but given the headlines, the 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.400 things that we have been inundated with over the past year, 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:00.800 do you feel yourself in a more hopeful and faithful 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:06.720 place or or not. I'm gonna be honest, I go 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:10.080 through waves. Um. You know, there are days, there are 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:13.359 times where I feel very hopeful, um, and I feel 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:17.000 very at ease and at peace where I'm at as 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:20.320 a singular, you know, individual, um. But then there are 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.719 days where I really really feel the weight of my 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:27.479 community and the things that are crushing, um, you know, 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:31.280 crushing all of us, you know, through everything that's happening, 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.600 and not just my community, like my Black community, but 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:38.840 thinking about people in all different communities going through things 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.720 and the struggle that is just like the struggle that 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:45.480 is just there. Um. And so for me, like again, 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:48.000 you know, like I said earlier on the call, um, 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:51.200 this outlet, for me, the creation of art has been 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:56.000 really really helpful um in in processing that, and it's 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:59.120 been helping me get through these kind of waves of 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:01.920 back and forth worth of feeling down but then also 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:04.600 having these moments of feeling really radiant and high and 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.000 high off life. So I feel like that's always going 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:10.560 to happen. You know, who's going to be going through things. 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:12.719 We're always going to be kind of going through these struggles. 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:15.520 But I think at the end of the day, I've 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:19.280 always been kind of looking to the people around me, 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:23.040 my family, my friends to really help me in processing that, 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:26.480 and that's been a beautiful thing as well. Well. I 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:32.760 have such deep gratitude for artists, for creators, for dreammakers 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:38.200 like yourself who help us articulate within your mediums how 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:41.119 we're all feeling right and reminding us that we're not 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:43.760 alone and that there is still beauty in the world 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:46.840 with the amount of pain and trauma that we are 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:51.400 living through. Please tell folks when your work premieres, when 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:54.800 they can see it, and where they can see it. Yeah, 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:58.280 So there is no movement without rhythm. I'll be at 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:01.119 the shed. June fourth was the opening date and it 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.920 will be up until August early August, and I'm very 0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:07.720 excited for it. There also will be a performance in 0:23:07.760 --> 0:23:10.240 the works, so I'm also very excited for that live 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:14.280 aspect and having people experience that as well. Well. I'm 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:17.440 excited to live at the Shed this summer. That's apparently 0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:19.879 what I'm going to be spending my time. I'm doing 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:23.640 because there are so many phenomenal works to see. Leandre 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:26.000 list Seur, thank you so much for making time to 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:29.520 join wok F. Appreciate you. I appreciate you so much. 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:36.200 I appreciate this. Thank you. Leandre's comments about our deep 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:39.320 and sexual connection to rhythm touch my spirit and I 0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:41.520 hope it touched yours as well. Please let me know 0:23:41.560 --> 0:23:44.159 what you think of my conversations with these creative minds 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:46.800 by getting at me on social media at D two 0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:51.320 sets D E two c E nts and once again, 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:54.760 you can hear more conversations like this, including next week's 0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:57.480 open call artists right now by joining woke a F 0:23:57.680 --> 0:24:01.880 Nation over at Patreon at patreon dot com slash woke af. 0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:05.240 By having these discussions at the intersection of art and activism, 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:07.359 I hope to expand the meeting of what it means 0:24:07.359 --> 0:24:09.840