1 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to woke AF with me Danielle Moody. This month, 2 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: I'm showcasing some amazing artists whose work is on display 3 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: here in New York at the Shed Cultural Center as 4 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 1: part of their Open Call program. This week, I'm proud 5 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: to present my conversation with Leandre Lesour, creator of There 6 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: Is No Movement Without Rhythm, a video performance fusion piece 7 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: about the effects rhythm has on our bodies. Leandre and 8 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: I got into discussing what it is like to exist 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: at the intersection of blackness, queerness, and womanhood identities which 10 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: are all typically politicized by audiences and critics, and the 11 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 1: process of producing art in this incredibly difficult time. Since 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: it's the start of Pride, I am sharing my entire 13 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: interview with Leandre Lesore with all of you today, and 14 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: you can hear many more like this, including the next 15 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: featured artists in the Open Call series, by supporting me 16 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: on Patreon at patreon dot com slash woke af Enjoy, folks. 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: I am so excited that I'm having the opportunity to 18 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: welcome so many amazing black artists to woke a f daily. 19 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: I am very excited to introduce you all to Leandra Lassour, 20 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 1: who is an artist that celebrates blackness, contemplates the experience 21 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: of invisibility and seeks to dismantle and reclaim stereotypes surrounding 22 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: black female identity, among other subject matters, and has an 23 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: upcoming exhibit entitled there Is No Movement Without Rhythm. Leandre, 24 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: thank you so much for making the time to join 25 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: Woke A f I want to open up with first 26 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: asking how are you feeling these days? You know, I 27 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: think that I will say that as a black queer 28 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: woman living in America over the past year and a 29 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: half has been a series of trauma roller coasters. Living 30 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: as black and queer and female in this body for 31 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: my entire life has been a journey of joy, resilience 32 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: and the purpose and desire to take up space. And so, 33 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: what has it been like creating this body of work 34 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: for you during these incredibly trying times? Yeah, no, thank 35 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: you for that question. It feels like a check in, 36 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: and I will say that it's been rough. I mean, 37 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: you know, we talk about the things that happened last year, 38 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: but I think there needs to be well there. I 39 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: feel like there is a realization, especially probably for you 40 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: as well, that this has been going on for some time. 41 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, since I was a little girl. 42 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: I can you know, think about and talk about specifically 43 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: about moments where I've felt this kind of extreme displacement 44 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: and not necessarily understanding my place in the world and 45 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: how I could exist freely. So the creation of this work, 46 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: for me, and I mean all of my artwork, to 47 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: be honest, has been a way for me to process, 48 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: has been a way for me to appeal, and has 49 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: been a way for me to kind of make a 50 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: mark and make a place in the world for myself 51 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: and provide myself a way to amplify my voice. So 52 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: it's been tremendously Even though we're right now going through 53 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: some really rough times in the world, the making work 54 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: and being an artist right now has been for me 55 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: kind of a sign of hope and also just for 56 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: me a tremendous like lift in my spirit. So I'm 57 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: grateful for that, you know that way of just speaking 58 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: in terms of making art, I have always been a 59 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: person that has deeply appreciated art, but specifically art created 60 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: by black artists. I know that for some they really 61 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: push back against the inherent politicization of black art by 62 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: just by virtue of being black. Our art is seen 63 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: as a body politick. What is your feeling about that, 64 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: about being viewed as a black artist or for your 65 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: work because it looks at the black female identity, which 66 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: we know has traditionally been what the mule of America, right, 67 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: the workhorse of the world. How do you understand the 68 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: politics of the art and the art itself. Yeah, no, 69 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: that's a great question. It's interesting because for so long, 70 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: a lot of people used to tell me, you know, 71 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: my work was specifically speaking about identity politics in this way, 72 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: and I used to kind of shy away from accepting 73 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: that or claiming that. And it wasn't until I started 74 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: reading works or excuse me, the Kombahi River Collective their 75 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: statement on identity politics, and they actually coined that phrase 76 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: in a way where I was like, you know, this 77 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: is something that I don't need to shy away from that, 78 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 1: I don't need to not claim this is a part 79 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: of who I am and just by my mere existence, 80 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: this is something that I'm speaking to and so within 81 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: my art I believe, I truly believe as an artist 82 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: like I have to be in a lot of ways 83 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: political and what I'm speaking on it is inherent to 84 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: my existence as a black queer woman to continue to 85 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: talk about those things, and even if I'm not directly 86 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: speaking about it, are within the works directly speaking about it. 87 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: I'm talking about the things around it, the things that 88 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: you know, have kind of allowed me to see myself 89 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: in a certain way and the ways in which I've 90 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: been able to navigate that. And so by me processing 91 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: that within my own work, maybe that is allowing someone 92 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: as a viewer to start to grasp their own processing 93 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: and maybe even build their own tools on how they 94 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: can also navigate the politics around just being black. M 95 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: There was a question that was asked by a white 96 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: anti racist trainer and she had asked that, you know, 97 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: this is back in the nineteen seventies, and forgive me 98 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: because I can't remember her name at this particular moment, 99 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: but she asked a room full of white people, right, 100 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: you know, if they believed in racism, and I'm sure 101 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: you've seen this video the clip, and they, you know, 102 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: they're like no, no, no, And then she's like, okay, 103 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: so would you want to be black for a day 104 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: and raise your hand? And none of them raise their hand, right, 105 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: And so there has always been this sense that there 106 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: is a profound grief that is associated with our blackness, 107 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: and yet for me, I feel like there is a 108 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: supreme radiance that is attached to our blackness and that 109 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: you will never find a community of people that is 110 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: steeped in more grace. Right, how do you understand or 111 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: are able to articulate through your art the balance of 112 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: the joy and the trauma and the gradiations in between 113 00:06:55,880 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: of what it means to be black? Yeah, that was 114 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: something I had to ask myself early on. I felt 115 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: like my work had a lot of this inherent rage 116 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: in it because I was speaking directly from from experience. 117 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: And when I talk about experience, a lot of people ask, well, 118 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: what are the like major things that you've experienced in 119 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: terms of trauma that have allowed you to have these 120 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: kind of lived experiences that have brought on this rage. 121 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: And for me, it wasn't about necessarily these big moments 122 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: or big events that took place, But like you said, 123 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: there's this collective memory that is within our bodies, and 124 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: our bodies kind of keep that and I had to 125 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: really understand like how my body was like taking all 126 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: of these like ways I was seeing myself through media, 127 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: visual media, and just like through the news cycles and 128 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: all of these projections. Even though it wasn't directly onto 129 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: me or directly said to me, or me directly experiencing it, 130 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: it was something that collectively was part of my memory 131 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: of who I am as a as a black person, 132 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: And so I had to tell myself with them the 133 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: creation of my art, you know, I can't if I'm 134 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: speaking about that. I can talk about that trauma, but 135 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: am I perpetuating this cycle of violence and trauma by 136 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: creating work that directly talks about that? And so for 137 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: me it was about, Okay, well, then how do I 138 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: create that balance? And so I started thinking about the 139 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: other parts of my life that people don't necessarily see 140 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: or hear about or understand, you know, like black love 141 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: and black joy, and how radical that is in moving 142 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 1: us and creating this buoyancy where we can exist this rage, 143 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: but we can also, like you said, radiate and have 144 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: this beauty and this grace amongst us that really allows 145 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: us to live and to process how we exist, but 146 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: to also just like exist and thrive in the way 147 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: that we are with everything that happens amongst us. So 148 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: for me that was really important, and I think right now, 149 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: to be honest, in the core of what my work is, 150 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: I'm thinking a lot about we intake violence every day 151 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: on such a high level, and so how are we 152 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: not just as artists, but as human beings, how are 153 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: we taking those things that are violent and looking for 154 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: ways to transform that into something that we can take 155 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: on and still be able to move forward with our 156 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: own potential and create spaces that really make room for 157 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: this kind of peaceful foundation or make room for this 158 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: like meditative process where we could really bring joy back 159 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: into our lives. And that's been at the core of 160 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: my practice, is really thinking about that transformation that's happening 161 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: within myself. But then whatever I touch, whatever I create, 162 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: I can push that out into the world as well. 163 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: I love that so much. My mother is a yogi 164 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: and onto a yoga studio here in New York, and 165 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: she talks to me constantly about not taking in the 166 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: negativity that we experience in the world as black people, 167 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: as women on a cellular level. And I remember the 168 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: first time that she said that to me, like, do 169 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: not take this in, Danielle, your rage and your angst, 170 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 1: do not allow it to attach to your cellular level, 171 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: because then that is what your body will produce, right, 172 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: And it is about moving outside of living in this 173 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: fight or flight space, right, which is honestly pretty much 174 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: the two alternatives that the world presents to us. And 175 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: I feel like, but through music and through art and 176 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: through dance and through so many different mediums that we're 177 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: able to imagine, to dream and create something that is 178 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: outside of what society is saying. You can either fight 179 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 1: to the death or you can flee. And we're like, well, 180 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: what if you float? What if you imagine? What if 181 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: you dream? Talk to me about music and about the 182 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: creation of this music around West Africa in vibes vibration 183 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: and why that spoke to you. Yeah, And I love 184 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: what you just said about this imagining because I think 185 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: that that happens when I'm in the space where I'm 186 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: listening to music and I'm listening to certain beats and rhythms. 187 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: Music has been a huge part of my practice for 188 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: some time, and I've always been questioning, well, like, why 189 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: do I always come back to particular sounds and particular rhythms, 190 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 1: And that brings me to this space where I can 191 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: really feel and experience those feelings and have really moments 192 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: with whatever I'm trying to process. So I started looking 193 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: at specific artists, jazz artists in particular that I, you know, 194 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: love and that I've been listening to since I was 195 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: a little girl. And one artist in particular, Pharaoh Sanders, 196 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: was someone that you know, I have like all of 197 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: his vinyl records. Was listening to all of his music 198 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: and started doing a lot of research on where a 199 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: lot of the different sounds, like the symbol he was using, 200 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: and why was he using all of these different instruments 201 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: together in this kind of ensemble. And there was a 202 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: kind of connection to Western African tradition and music with 203 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: Nahwa traditions, And so I started listening to Nahwah ceremonies 204 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: and music, and all of the instruments that they were 205 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 1: they were using were instruments that I found not just 206 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: in Pharall Sanders work, but in other jazz musicians work 207 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: like Archie Shep for instance. But then also thinking about 208 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: like the house music and how kind of those symbols 209 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: and sounds were reverberating as well, and then even with 210 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: Black gospel and thinking about these ceremonies, how they take place, 211 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: and how voices amplified those were all things that were 212 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: just kind of coming along through this research I was doing, 213 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: and so I started thinking about the ways in which 214 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: I was using music and how all of those different 215 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,359 Speaker 1: forms of music were very influential in how I processed 216 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: my own feelings and the the ways that I reimagine 217 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: the spaces that I was in. So I was like, 218 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: this is something I need to translate into a work 219 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: so that someone can also experience this in the same 220 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: way I'm experiencing it. And that's where this project came about. 221 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: You know, there's no movement without rhythm. Thinking about all 222 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: of these different sounds and rhythms and how they have 223 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: this really beautiful way of transcending us to another space, 224 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: and also thinking about a part of the project that 225 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: I'm working with. There's this kind of clip that I 226 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: put in from Sunraw where he's talking about this process 227 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: of us being not real, you know, our body's not 228 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: being from here, but also like our spirits not being 229 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: of this place, and that being a way for us 230 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 1: to kind of expand, and in that expansion, that being 231 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: a way for us to fully feel present with who 232 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: we actually are. And so I think about this form 233 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: of music and the way that the sounds kind of 234 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: trans and it brings us outside of this physical vessel 235 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: into another realm. And in that realm, we're able to 236 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: fully expand and fully understand who we are and have 237 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: the space to actually exist freely. And for me, that 238 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: feels very profound and very radical. When we're thinking about 239 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: this idea of care, and we're thinking about this idea 240 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: of love, and we're thinking about the ways in which 241 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: we can inhabit joy, all of those things feel like 242 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: they are necessary and really really processing that you just 243 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: spoke to my whole soul. You just spoke to my 244 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: whole soul, because all I have been saying to friends 245 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: is that I need for What I miss the most 246 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: during this pandemic time is live music. I miss. I 247 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: miss what it feels like to experience beats and rhythm 248 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: and base penetrating through you as a collective. And when 249 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: you talk about house music like so for me, and 250 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: everybody knows this about me, particularly my neighbors that live downstairs, 251 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: how much how much gospel house music speaks to my soul. 252 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: And I think about it because I think about our 253 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: bodies being made up primarily of water. I think about 254 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: the vibration about how why we undulate in certain ways 255 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: because of the vibrations and how they connect to our bodies, 256 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: which are these bodies of water. And I think about 257 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: that often. And what I've been talking about a lot 258 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: on WOK A F two and you you spoke about 259 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: this in terms of expansiveness, in terms of not being 260 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: of this vessel, is that I've been talking about times 261 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: of trauma and how they break us open, and that 262 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: in order to expand, something must be broken open to 263 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: create more space. Cracks aren't just about this dismantling of 264 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: this perfect thing, this perfect vessel, but it is about 265 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: breaking open and the cracks allowing there to be flow right. 266 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: And I think about where the opportunity is that we 267 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: are currently living in, in all of the obstacles that 268 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: we are going through, about moving from this kind of 269 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: container where all people weren't equitable, all people can't fit, 270 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: and breaking it open, and what would it mean to 271 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: create a mosaic instead where you're honoring the shattered pieces, 272 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: where you're honoring all of the pieces right. But in 273 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: a mosaic all things can fit right because there is 274 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: so much more space that's been created outside of the 275 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: origination of the vessel. So when you set all of 276 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: those things, I'm like, there's like all of these images 277 00:16:54,120 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: going through my head, you know, thinking out rhythm and 278 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: how we move together as a collective. What are you 279 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: hoping that people walk away with after experiencing your art? 280 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 1: What are you hoping that they gain from this installation, 281 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: from this work? Yeah, I think the main thing for 282 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: me is I really like to think of a lot 283 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: with my work about this idea of confrontation, but not 284 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: a confrontation to in any way make someone feel uncomfortable. 285 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: A confrontation to really question your presence and question within 286 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: that presence if you're really seeing and if you're really 287 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: listening and not just what we look at surface level, 288 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: but a deep seeing in a deep listening. And I 289 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: think for me it's really important because within a lot 290 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: of my work, I'm the main subject. I'm at the forefront, 291 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: and for that reason, it's because I'm confronting, you know, 292 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: the image that has been projected onto like who you 293 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 1: think I should be, who you claim me to be, 294 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: But this is who I am presenting myself as. And 295 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,479 Speaker 1: with that, I know I'm also carrying the identity of 296 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: so many other people that came before me, but also 297 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 1: so many other people that are here right now with 298 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 1: me in my community. You know that that carry the 299 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,959 Speaker 1: identity of blackness, that carry the identity of queerness, and 300 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: also that carry the identity of womanhood. And so with 301 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: the work, I'm hoping that people actually are confronted and 302 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: they question their ways of seeing, they question their ways 303 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: of listening. And with that questioning, they also kind of 304 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: challenge their their privilege. Whether they're black with or they're white, 305 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter about race, but challenge that inherit privilege 306 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: that we all have within us. And I feel like 307 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: for me that's really important because with that challenge that 308 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: could really bring people to within themselves kind of break open, 309 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: allow for an easier flow in connection with someone else, 310 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: and that can open up this you know, this connection 311 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: and threat of empathy, and that for me is really 312 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: really important within the work I'm creating. Have you found 313 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: that during this time your creative process because of the 314 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: times that we're living in, has it shifted? Has it 315 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: been different? Have you noticed ways in which you are 316 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: experiencing and expressing this art. If you had created it 317 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen or twenty eighteen, it would have been 318 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: different than it is now. Yeah, I mean to be honest, 319 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 1: I think with everything that's happened with the pandemic, we 320 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: have slowed down quite a bit. And I feel like 321 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: a lot of the work I've been creating for a 322 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: while now, I've always been thinking about, like, how are 323 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: people taking this in? Like I'm really forcing you to 324 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: kind of slow down and take it in, and I'm 325 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: confronting that as well. And I feel like with the pandemic, 326 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: because people have slowed down, I feel like people are 327 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: a little bit more, They're not reluctant anymore to do that, 328 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 1: And for me, that's been and really nice to see 329 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: that kind of transition happened. So I feel like it 330 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: is a little bit changed in that way, But outside 331 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: of that, the context of it has always been the same. 332 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: You know. I've always been speaking directly, you know, to 333 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: who I am directly to, you know, these different modes 334 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: of blackness, in the various ways of being black, and 335 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: that has never changed. And so I just think the 336 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 1: way that people are taking in and listening and seeing 337 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: has maybe adjusted quite a bit based on the pandemic 338 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: and based on this idea of us all as a 339 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: collective community slowing down. Do you have my last question 340 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: for you? Although I feel like genuinely I could speak 341 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: to you for there for a very long time, do 342 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: another one later? Right, I'm like, what are you doing? 343 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 1: Do you find yourself as you've been navigating this space, 344 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: creating this body of work, but given the headlines, the 345 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: things that we have been inundated with over the past year, 346 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: do you feel yourself in a more hopeful and faithful 347 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: place or or not. I'm gonna be honest, I go 348 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: through waves. Um. You know, there are days, there are 349 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: times where I feel very hopeful, um, and I feel 350 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: very at ease and at peace where I'm at as 351 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: a singular, you know, individual, um. But then there are 352 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,719 Speaker 1: days where I really really feel the weight of my 353 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,479 Speaker 1: community and the things that are crushing, um, you know, 354 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: crushing all of us, you know, through everything that's happening, 355 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: and not just my community, like my Black community, but 356 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: thinking about people in all different communities going through things 357 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: and the struggle that is just like the struggle that 358 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: is just there. Um. And so for me, like again, 359 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: you know, like I said earlier on the call, um, 360 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: this outlet, for me, the creation of art has been 361 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: really really helpful um in in processing that, and it's 362 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: been helping me get through these kind of waves of 363 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: back and forth worth of feeling down but then also 364 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: having these moments of feeling really radiant and high and 365 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: high off life. So I feel like that's always going 366 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: to happen. You know, who's going to be going through things. 367 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,719 Speaker 1: We're always going to be kind of going through these struggles. 368 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: But I think at the end of the day, I've 369 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: always been kind of looking to the people around me, 370 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: my family, my friends to really help me in processing that, 371 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: and that's been a beautiful thing as well. Well. I 372 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: have such deep gratitude for artists, for creators, for dreammakers 373 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: like yourself who help us articulate within your mediums how 374 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: we're all feeling right and reminding us that we're not 375 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: alone and that there is still beauty in the world 376 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: with the amount of pain and trauma that we are 377 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 1: living through. Please tell folks when your work premieres, when 378 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: they can see it, and where they can see it. Yeah, 379 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: So there is no movement without rhythm. I'll be at 380 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: the shed. June fourth was the opening date and it 381 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: will be up until August early August, and I'm very 382 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: excited for it. There also will be a performance in 383 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: the works, so I'm also very excited for that live 384 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: aspect and having people experience that as well. Well. I'm 385 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: excited to live at the Shed this summer. That's apparently 386 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: what I'm going to be spending my time. I'm doing 387 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: because there are so many phenomenal works to see. Leandre 388 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: list Seur, thank you so much for making time to 389 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: join wok F. Appreciate you. I appreciate you so much. 390 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: I appreciate this. Thank you. Leandre's comments about our deep 391 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: and sexual connection to rhythm touch my spirit and I 392 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: hope it touched yours as well. Please let me know 393 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 1: what you think of my conversations with these creative minds 394 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: by getting at me on social media at D two 395 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: sets D E two c E nts and once again, 396 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: you can hear more conversations like this, including next week's 397 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: open call artists right now by joining woke a F 398 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: Nation over at Patreon at patreon dot com slash woke af. 399 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: By having these discussions at the intersection of art and activism, 400 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: I hope to expand the meeting of what it means 401 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: to be woke and to practice wokeness in our lives 402 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: as we head into the summer, Get out there if 403 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: it's safe where you are, feel the music and let 404 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 1: it awaken something in you. Power to the people and 405 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: to all the people. Power. Get woke and stay woke 406 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: as fuck.