1 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: are solely those of the individuals participating in the show 4 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or tenderfoot TV. 5 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable 6 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 2: Hello, everyone, welcome back to our new podcast, Facing Evil 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,959 Speaker 2: from Tenderfoot TV and iHeartRadio. We are your hosts. I'm 9 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: Roscha Pecuerero. 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 3: And I'm Evet Gentila, And. 11 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 2: Of course we know that we're sisters, right And apparently 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 2: I like to do everything that my big sister does. 13 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 2: And my big sister fell a few couple months ago, 14 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 2: right before she had to do the New York City 15 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 2: half marathon. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,639 Speaker 3: And I don't fall. I'm not the club. And I'm 17 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 3: just putting that out there. 18 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 2: Alexy One and Trevor, our beautiful producer. I need to 19 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: tell you what I did this week. I fell down. 20 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 2: I fell down the stairs. Okay, well, I fell down 21 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 2: the stair. I missed you. 22 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 3: Found you, fell down one one step. 23 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,479 Speaker 2: And I broke my big right toe because I want 24 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 2: to be like my big sister and yeah, so if 25 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: you hear me wincing while we're talking about the case today, 26 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 2: that is why, Trevor. 27 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: So. 28 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 3: But the funny thing about that is you never you 29 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 3: never said to me, you said I fell down the stairs. 30 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 3: And it wasn't until hours later that Sanna, her wife, 31 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 3: is on the other line, laughing hysterically saying, no, she 32 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 3: she fell down a step. 33 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 2: My foot got stuck in my very large pant leg 34 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 2: and I skipped a step and basically I planted into 35 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: the doordown with my toe. 36 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, how's your pain level? 37 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: Seven out of ten? So you know, we might need 38 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: to have pain relievers later, but regardless, so you know, 39 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: I mean, there might be some tears today, but it'll 40 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: be a mixture of the case that we're talking about 41 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 2: and my broken toe. 42 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, and always we are so blessed and 43 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 3: so lucky to have our amazing producer, Trevor Young. He 44 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 3: is our I like to call him our old soul. Yes, 45 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 3: and he is going to take us through the case today, 46 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 3: So Trevor, it's all yours. 47 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 4: Winnipeg Police reveals stunning new details today in a disturbing 48 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 4: case about just where teenager Tina Fontaine was before she 49 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 4: disappeared for good, and about just who might have been 50 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 4: among the last to see her alive. 51 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 2: The startling new report released today details just how support 52 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: services failed the fifteen. 53 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: Year old before her death. 54 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 5: Sports national outreach. 55 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 2: From the moment the body of fifteen year old Tina 56 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: Fontaine was pulled from the Red River. The case has 57 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 2: been high profile and politically charged. 58 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: Today we're digging into the case of Tina Fontaine, a 59 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: young girl from the indigenous community in Manitoba, Canada. At 60 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: the age of fifteen years old, she was found dead 61 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: in Winnipeg in August of twenty fourteen. Tina's life up 62 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: until her death was incredibly tough. With very little family 63 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: support resources and a family history of substance abuse, it 64 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: almost seemed as though Tina had very little hope for 65 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,279 Speaker 1: a stable life, and during the last year of her life, 66 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: she had fallen into sex work and had been frequently 67 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: reported missing. On one of those occasions, she never came home. 68 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: On August seventeenth, twenty fourteen, her body was found in 69 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: the Red River. Witnesses identified one older man who they 70 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: believed was responsible since he was the life last known 71 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: person with Tina. He was charged, but was eventually acquitted 72 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: of the murder, and so the looming questions in this 73 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: case are who killed Tina, Why wasn't she getting the 74 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: support she needed? And how is her story indicative of 75 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: a bigger problem an epidemic of violence against Indigenous women 76 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: across North America. 77 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 2: That's so true that you say that, Trevor, because yes, 78 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 2: we're telling Tina's story, but really we're telling the stories 79 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 2: of all of the missing and murdered Indigenous women and 80 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 2: girls across Canada and the US. I had no idea 81 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: how big of a problem this really was until we 82 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 2: dove into Tina. 83 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 3: Right, And that's why we really want to tell this story. 84 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 3: It's a very important story to tell because when we 85 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 3: say an epidemic, I mean the numbers are staggering, particularly 86 00:04:58,120 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 3: in the Winnipeg area. 87 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: I know. 88 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 3: I found that it was eighteen point seven percent of 89 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 3: the women and children were living in poverty, So that 90 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 3: was about roughly thirty thousand children and women. 91 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, in particular, the issue of violence against 92 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: Native women is particularly bad. I was looking at some 93 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: research from the Native Women's Association of Canada and they 94 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: found that Native or Aboriginal women fifteen years or older 95 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: were actually three and a half times more likely to 96 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: experience violence than non Aboriginal women. And then fifty four 97 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: percent of those Aboriginal women reported severe forms of family 98 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:43,559 Speaker 1: violence versus only thirty seven percent of non Aboriginal women. 99 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: That's not a great number either, but the difference there 100 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: is huge, right, almost twenty percent stagg. 101 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 3: AG numbers, I know. And there's also from the same organization, 102 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 3: they reported that Indigenous women in the Canada's sex trade. 103 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 3: I mean, get this, one hundred and seventy one women 104 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 3: were killed between nineteen ninety one and two thousand and four. Guys, 105 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 3: that is about forty five percent of those cases. I 106 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 3: mean they're still unsolved. That's that's not terrific. 107 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's a I guess a huge theme 108 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: for this case, right is you know, these things happen. 109 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: That's one piece of it. But then another piece of 110 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: it is that they're not given the same kind of attention. 111 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: You know that similar cases for non native or white women. 112 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: Get you know, we've known about this as a cultural 113 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: thing for some time now. You know, everybody of course 114 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: is talking about Gabby Potito case and why that was 115 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: getting so much attention when there are hundreds thousands of 116 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: Aboriginal and Native women who go missing or are murdered 117 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: every year, and they don't get the same kind of 118 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: attention or investigations. So hopefully by talking about this, we 119 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: can start to draw more attention towards those cases and 120 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: you know, maybe less away from the other side, or 121 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, at least find some equality there. 122 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 2: Equality. That's that's the word. 123 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 3: That is the word, and that is why we do 124 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 3: this Russia right exactly for this reason, so we can 125 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 3: share their stories and people will be aware that this 126 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 3: is happening and not you know, keep their blinders on. 127 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: I have to say too, like, first of all, I 128 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 2: had no idea that the Center for Disease Control in 129 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 2: the US. I mean, I know it's called the CDC 130 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 2: because I think all of us have become very familiar 131 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 2: with the CDC during this coronavirus pandemic. But the CDC 132 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 2: came out with a report that murder is the third 133 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 2: leading cause of death among American, Indian and Alaska Native 134 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: women and that rates of violence on reservations can be 135 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: up to ten times higher than the national average. So 136 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 2: they need our help. These women and girls need us 137 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: to talk about them and not just the Gabby Potitos 138 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 2: of the world. Absolutely, Absolutely, Tina was more than just 139 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: a statistics. She was born into a situation familiar to 140 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 2: many Indigenous families. Trevor, what do we know about her 141 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: parents and her upbringing? 142 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. I think Tina's family history is a 143 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: pretty distressing example of something that happens through a lot 144 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: of Indigenous families. So first I'll tell you about Tina's 145 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: father and grandfather. Her dad was a guy named Eugene Fontaine, 146 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: and he was a member of the sac King First 147 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 1: Nation in Manitoba. If I'm saying that correctly, I apologize 148 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: if I'm not. And then his father, Tina's grandfather, was 149 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: actually the survivor of a residential school. Do you guys 150 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: know about residential schools? 151 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: Well, I did some research on them, and I do 152 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 2: know that residential schools were created in the late eighteen 153 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: hundreds to separate Indigenous children from their parents and essentially 154 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 2: strip them of their identities. And it reminded me so 155 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 2: much of of what the Christian missionaries did in Hawaii, 156 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 2: you know, trying to westernize everything. But yeah, I've heard 157 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 2: horror stories. 158 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: That's what they were, like supposed to be is these 159 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: kind of like schools to teach them on the ways 160 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: of proper a Western civilization. These indigenous communities primarily children, 161 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: but they ended up being more like internment camps, and 162 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: the conditions were horrible. Many children died, you know. Oftentimes 163 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: they were put up in these little shacks and the coldest, 164 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 1: most desolate places in Canada. So really horrible and so sad, 165 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: I know. And those sorts of experiences took a toll 166 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: on that generation for sure, as you can imagine. So 167 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: as a result, Eugene's father, this being Tina's grandfather, ended 168 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 1: up being an alcoholic, and he ended up being a 169 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: very abusive alcoholic, and so this kind of created a 170 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: domino effect of trauma in their family. So Eugene Tina's 171 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: dad eventually left home at twelve years old, which is 172 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: crazy because he could deal with his alcoholic, abusive father, 173 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: and he moved to Winnipeg. And so obviously this sort 174 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: of chaotic upbringing was hard on him, and he too 175 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: developed an alcohol addiction. And so then there's Tina's mother. 176 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,839 Speaker 1: So Tina's mother was named Valentina Duck. She also went 177 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: by Tina, and she belonged to the blood vein First Nation, 178 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: which is also in Manitoba. She also suffered a number 179 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: of traumatic events throughout her childhood, including sexual exploitation. She 180 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: was removed from her family by the CFS, which is 181 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: Child and Family Services at the age of ten. She 182 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: spent a number of years being moved around before she 183 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: met Eugene when she was just twelve years old, and 184 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 1: by this point, I guess he was twenty three or so. 185 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: So she became pregnant with their first child, which would 186 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: have been Tina's older sibling, in nineteen ninety four, which 187 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: would have made her fourteen. So on January first, nineteen 188 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: ninety nine, at the age of seventeen, Valentina gave birth 189 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: to Tina Fontaine who were talking about today. So Tina's 190 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: father is twenty eight at this point, and the parents' relationship, 191 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: as you can imagine, is very unstable, marked with substance abuse, violence, 192 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: you name it. And as a result, poor Tina was 193 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: left with her maternal grandmother for pretty much most of 194 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: the time. 195 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 3: That's just crazy, right to think about this little child, 196 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 3: I mean, and things just get tougher for Tina from 197 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 3: that point over, I mean, over the next four years, 198 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,839 Speaker 3: Tina dealt with a ton I mean a ton of 199 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 3: instability as she was placed in and out of foster care. 200 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 3: I mean, and she was moved between her mother, her grandmother. 201 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 3: And this is what kills me too, is like children 202 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 3: are placed in these hotels by Child and Family Services? 203 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: Why are children just like her mom? 204 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 5: Yeah? 205 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 3: But why are they put in these hotels? I can't 206 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 3: I don't comprehend that. 207 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: I guess that's all they can do. I mean it's 208 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: the only kind of you know, neutral, yeah, place with 209 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: a bed, right, you know, and all the amenities that 210 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: you need to survive. 211 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 5: I know. 212 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 3: But it's like you you think about it, and it's like, 213 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 3: but they can still come and go and leave there easily. 214 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: You know. 215 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 3: There's like nobody really seriously monitoring them. 216 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that does become a problem that way. 217 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, and for Tina, I mean, her life just from 218 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 3: that point on got unbelievably worse. Tina's father, who you 219 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 3: were speaking of, you know earlier, Trevor, he got into 220 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 3: a fight and from what I understand, it was over money, 221 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 3: and he died from his injuries. I mean, I can 222 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 3: only imagine how Tina took this news. And even though 223 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 3: she didn't live with her father, like she still was 224 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 3: extremely close to him and was devastated by his murder, 225 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 3: and of course, like her family history, she became withdrawn 226 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 3: and pressed, and she started using marijuana and doing all 227 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 3: kinds of things right just to cope with the loss 228 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 3: self medicating right of her dad, you know. And on 229 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 3: top of that, she doesn't have her mother. Her mother 230 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 3: is in and out of the picture. Now your father 231 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 3: has been murdered. 232 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and keep in mind to you know, her 233 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: dad dies in twenty eleven. Tina herself was born in 234 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, so she's around twelve years old when 235 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: she starts going through this self medication process, you know, 236 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: starting to use very drugs. She's only twelve. I know, 237 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: she's only twelve years old. You know. 238 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 2: I've been thinking about this a lot because I always 239 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 2: feel that, like you always have a choice, right to 240 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 2: break generational trauma or to not repeat what your parents 241 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 2: have done. And I can only say, like for myself, 242 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 2: like my dad was and is an alcoholic and a 243 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 2: drug addict, and I saw all of that, and I'm like, 244 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 2: I was like, there's no way in hell I'm ever 245 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 2: going to be anything like that. However, I do know 246 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 2: that I was blessed by having my sister event and 247 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,319 Speaker 2: my mom, you know, because my mom and dad were 248 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 2: not together, thankfully, But I wish that Tina had had, 249 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: you know, that safe space, I think and she actually, 250 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 2: I know we're referring to her as her grandmother, but 251 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 2: biologically it was her great aunt. But I think she 252 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 2: was her safe space. And you know, her grandmother was 253 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 2: just doing the best she could to try to protect Tina. 254 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 2: But I can only imagine what it would have been 255 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 2: like without, you know, that big, strong presence in your 256 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 2: life to tell you right from wrong. 257 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 3: But again, you know, like Trevor said, you have to remember, 258 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 3: she's twelve, Yeah, twelve dealing with all this. It shouldn't exactly, 259 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 3: it should not be it should not be her responsibility. 260 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 3: And like you did, say Russia, like with her her 261 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 3: great aunt, I think, you know, she did everything in 262 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 3: her means that she could do. She did all she could, 263 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 3: but there a point when you don't know what else 264 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 3: to do, right, So it's just it's just really sad. 265 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 3: It is so heartbreaking. And so two years after Tina's 266 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 3: father was killed, where in the last year of Tina's 267 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 3: life at this point, you know, she was skipping school regularly, 268 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 3: running away from home, and she was living you know 269 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 3: with her grandmother, you know, great aunt at the time, 270 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 3: since her own mother was so unstable, so her own 271 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 3: mom didn't even come in after you. 272 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 2: Know, her dad was killed. But Tina's grandmother admitted that 273 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 2: she didn't know how to help, and she refused help 274 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 2: from you know, CFS, from child Children's Family Services. And 275 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 2: I know that, you know, she was, like you said, 276 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 2: you bet, she was doing the absolute best that she could. 277 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 3: Right, I mean, back then, given those times, I'm sure 278 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 3: she was doing what she thought was best, you know, 279 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 3: at the time. But then in January of twenty fourteen, 280 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 3: this was really a turning point for Tina, and sadly 281 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 3: in a very bad way, because on January thirtieth, she 282 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 3: was rushed to the hospital after a suicide attempt and 283 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 3: she had cut her wrist. But thankfully the injuries that 284 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 3: she that she had were minor. But she did tell 285 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 3: the nurse that she was having suicidal thoughts, and according 286 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 3: to Tina's grandmother, the hospital and the social services didn't 287 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 3: take any action to help her. I mean, that's she's 288 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 3: right there, she's in the hospital, she's tried to commit 289 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 3: or made an attempt right to commit suicide. Get her 290 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 3: some she's lost her father. 291 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 2: Get her some therapy. 292 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 3: She needs help. She needs help. 293 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 2: And then by April, Tina's grandmother was so worried about 294 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 2: Tina's safety with everything you know, she had been doing 295 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 2: and going through, so she did finally reach out to 296 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 2: CFS for support because at this time, Tina was experimenting 297 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 2: heavily with drugs, she kept running away from home, and 298 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 2: she was connecting with adult men online. 299 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 3: Right, So all of this brings us to July first, 300 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 3: twenty fourteen, and Tina went to visit her mom in Winnipeg. 301 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 3: Her grandmother had agreed to let her go because the 302 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 3: last time she had saw her mom everything went well. 303 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 3: So her grandmother said, I will give you this calling 304 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 3: card and fifty dollars and go see your mom. 305 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: Sadly though, that was the last time her grandma would 306 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: see Tina alive. And we'll talk more about what happened 307 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: to Tina after we take a quick break. 308 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 2: All right, So Tina is now fifteen and in Winnipeg, 309 00:17:54,560 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 2: and things just get incredibly crazy and dark from you're 310 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 2: on out. 311 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 3: Oh my god, this is okay. Let me just let 312 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 3: me just tell you guys about this police incident. Three 313 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 3: weeks later, on July seventeenth, the police were called because 314 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 3: Tina was on the street. She was screaming while she 315 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 3: was being dragged by some eighteen year old male and 316 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 3: they both were drunk. The police had already picked them up, 317 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 3: so they send Tina to a short term detox resource 318 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 3: for youth, and she tells the nurses at the detox 319 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 3: center that she had Okay, get this, you guys, she 320 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:43,959 Speaker 3: had fifteen to twenty beers before the incident, and that 321 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 3: this was her boyfriend that she was with. Can I 322 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 3: just say, I'm fifty three and one hundred and thirty pounds. 323 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 3: If I was to have fifteen to twenty beers, I 324 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 3: would be comatose, function I would be comatose. 325 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, And she Tina was even though she was fifteen. 326 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: Like she looked, she had a very petite frame, like 327 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 2: I can only imagine, so for her to drink that 328 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 2: much and be functioning. 329 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 3: And right, she'd been doing it for a while. 330 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:14,479 Speaker 1: Well, at the end of the day, she's a child, right, 331 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the biggest thing is she's a fifteen 332 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: year old. Nobody should be drinking alcohol at that age anyways, 333 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: let alone a you know, alcohol poisoning inducing amount of it. 334 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 3: But I mean, you know, this is what she grew 335 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 3: up seeing her mother and her father do the same thing. 336 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 3: So it's a cycle that's just being repeated. 337 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 2: Generational trauma is definitely a thing, it is. 338 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: And speaking of her mother, obviously, she was supposed to 339 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: be with her mother at this point, and the question is, 340 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: you know, why isn't she with her mom? Where is 341 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: her mother? So, as it turns out, we now know 342 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: she was not staying with her mother really at any 343 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: point during this time. On July eighteenth, she ended up 344 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: staying in a hotel provided by Children and Family Services. 345 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: They actually discharged her after this, without really any plan 346 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: to support her after she got out. So the day 347 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: that Tina was released from the hotel, CFS lost track 348 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: of her. They couldn't find her. The agency contacted all 349 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: of Tina's family members, including her grandmother, her mother, and 350 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: no one knew where she was. You know, her mother 351 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: had no idea where she was, even though she was 352 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: supposed to be visiting with her. 353 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 3: Right It's like, where was her mother? 354 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: Yeah? And so then on July twenty second, of twenty fourteen, 355 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,959 Speaker 1: Tina actually called her social worker and let her know 356 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 1: that she was safe somewhere, staying with a boyfriend, and 357 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: supposedly this is the same eighteen year olds who had 358 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: been dragging her a few days ago. 359 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 3: Her this is the this is the boyfriend, this is 360 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 3: that guy again. Great, great, great great great. 361 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. 362 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 2: Okay, So no one was really sure at this point 363 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 2: where Tina was even sleeping at night. She was bouncing 364 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 2: around from different shelters. But she was actually officially reported 365 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 2: missing on July thirty first by the Winnipeg Police. So 366 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,360 Speaker 2: when they did locate her next on August eighth, twenty fourteen, 367 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 2: it was an awful situation. 368 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 3: This is really tough to talk about because it really 369 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 3: frustrates me how lost Tina was obviously getting, I mean 370 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 3: more and more out of control. The police pulled over 371 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 3: a truck early in the morning for not using proper signals, 372 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 3: and they find Tina, who gave them a fake name, 373 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 3: and I believe the name she gave them was Tessa 374 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 3: too heart. She's sitting there, physically, sitting there in the 375 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 3: passenger seat. The driver is drunk and he's driving on 376 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 3: a suspended license. The police they impound the guy's truck, 377 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 3: but then they let Tina go even though she was 378 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 3: listed as a missing person. Like, is that that that's 379 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 3: not doing your job. 380 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 2: That is not doing your job, And it's totally ridiculous. 381 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 2: And what's even worse is that just hours later, Tino 382 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 2: was actually found unconscious in a back alley near the 383 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 2: University of Winnipeg in an area that's commonly known for 384 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 2: sex work. And it's really hard for me to say 385 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 2: this knowing that she was just a fifteen year old girl. 386 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 2: But Tino was found without clothes on from the waist down. 387 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 3: But she did, I mean, she did thankfully get to 388 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 3: a hospital, thank god. And while she was there she 389 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 3: did tell her CFS worker that she was involved with 390 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 3: a fifty three year old man named Raymond Cormier. 391 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is a pretty weird day, right. So 392 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: there's this incident with her getting pulled over, She's found 393 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: behind you know, this alleyway unconscious. This is all happening 394 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: on the same day, which is August eighth. Discharge from 395 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: the hospital thereafter, we do know the CFS puts her 396 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,239 Speaker 1: in a hotel that night, as they tend to do, 397 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 1: but she doesn't stay. She immediately leaves and CFS again 398 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:12,959 Speaker 1: loses track of her. 399 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 3: So she again again. 400 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: Geez. Yeah, you would think after something as horrible as 401 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: being found unconscious, you know, being only halfway clothed as 402 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: a fifteen year old girl, that they would take more 403 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: efforts to like make sure she stays in the hotel room, sheep, 404 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: stays in their care. But clearly they weren't really monitoring 405 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: her very well. 406 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 3: Right, and even I mean to you know, when they 407 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 3: take her to the hospital, like was she given a 408 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 3: you know, did they do a rape kit? Right? She's 409 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 3: Those are all questions. 410 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 2: I will say too on all the news reports that 411 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 2: I've seen on Tina that again, her death was like 412 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 2: a wake up call, right, And so I have read 413 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 2: and I have listened to different shows, and they don't 414 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 2: CFS does not release children to hotels anymore. That's not 415 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 2: something that's a common practice in Canada, thankfully. 416 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 5: Yeah. 417 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. And also just a little sidebar, I was reading 418 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 3: the Manitoba Advocate for Children and Youth and it was 419 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 3: giving a detailed like document on Tina's life. And those 420 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 3: two officers that were that pulled her over, they were 421 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 3: suspended and actually eventually let go. 422 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 423 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 3: So something something was done. 424 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, the incompetence in this whole case. 425 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 3: Right, right, Okay, guys, so we need to talk about 426 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 3: Tina's friend, Katrina. 427 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 2: Right, Katrina, the eighteen year old who also spent time 428 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 2: in the CFS shelters when she was young, and was 429 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 2: actually a friend of Tina's, right. 430 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 3: From what we understand, I mean, Katrina was also the 431 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 3: last person to see Tina alive. They had hung out 432 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 3: together earlier in the day, and they were together during 433 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 3: that truck incident, and they were hanging out again when 434 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 3: a man approached Tina about three am, right, and. 435 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: We're talking about three am now of August ninth, So 436 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: really this is a continuation of the events that happened 437 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: on August eighth, all these things that we've been talking about, Like, 438 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: this is all within less than twenty four hours. So 439 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: according to CBC News, which covered this event, quote, Katrina 440 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: said they hung out until about three am on August ninth, 441 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: when a man approached them on a lease avenue and 442 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: offered to pay Fontane money to perform a sex act. 443 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: The friend said Fontane accepted the offer and told her 444 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: she would be back in about fifteen minutes. Katrina said 445 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: she followed Fontaine and the man for about half a block, 446 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: but it was too dark to see where they were going. 447 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 1: She would say, I don't know, just something didn't feel right. 448 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: I waited half an hour, and then time just kept 449 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: on passing, and that was the last anybody would hear 450 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: from or see Tina. 451 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 2: And sadly, two weeks later, on August seventeenth, Tina's little 452 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 2: body was found in the Red River. She had been 453 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 2: wrapped up in plastic and a duvet comforter, and her 454 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 2: body had been weighed down by rocks. 455 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: So we need to take another break real quick. But 456 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: when we come back we will talk more about the 457 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: investigation and everything that unfolded afterwards. 458 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 3: The whole thing I mean is just it's so sad. 459 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,479 Speaker 3: It feels like, as we've said earlier, there were so 460 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 3: many pivotal moments where if someone would have just intervened 461 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 3: or took a moment, Tina would still be with us, 462 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 3: She still would have had a chance. 463 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 2: And I think what also feels so unfair is that 464 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 2: we have no idea how Tina died. We don't know 465 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 2: what her cause of death was. According to the Manitoba 466 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 2: Advocate for Children and Youth, the autopsy was inconclusive. There 467 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 2: wasn't evidence of any physical trauma, and the condition of 468 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 2: her body made it difficult to determine the cause of death. 469 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 2: Is that, Trevor, Is that more of a thing like 470 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 2: when a body is found in water, is it much harder? 471 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: Well, bodies technically tend to decompose slower in water. However, 472 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: the water does affect the body in ways that make 473 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: it harder to identify or do an autopsy on properly. 474 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: You know, bodies might bloat, making it less clear if 475 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: there are certain injuries that reveal certain things. The water 476 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 1: might also wash away things like DNA or any other evidence. 477 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: So I would say bodies that have been in water 478 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: for a long time are impossibly hard to do a 479 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: proper autopsy on. So to me this makes sense, But 480 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: that just kind of adds to the tragedy of the 481 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: whole situation. 482 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 5: I know. 483 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: All that said, though, the police did have their suspect, 484 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,199 Speaker 1: even if I didn't know how she died, and of 485 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: course they pointed to Raymond Cormier. If you remember, Cormier 486 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: was the person that she mentioned she had been with, 487 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: the fifty three year old man that she mentioned in 488 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 1: the hospital when she was being interviewed by a CFS right. So, 489 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: according to the Winnipeg Police, Cormier and Tina had both 490 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 1: stayed in the same home on the east side of 491 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 1: the city for how long We're not sure, but Cormier 492 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: had a long list of criminal convictions. In total, he 493 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: had something like ninety two different offenses across four different 494 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: Canadian provinces, which is crazy. So of course the police 495 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: are looking at this guy, and they do eventually arrest 496 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: him and they charge him with second degree murder. CBC 497 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: also reported that quote the second degree murder charge was 498 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: laid based on evidence gathered through forensic examinations, witness interviews, 499 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: and covert operations. Of course, Cormier chose to plead not guilty. 500 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 2: So let's talk about the trial. It began on January 501 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 2: twenty ninth, twenty eighteen, and it included witness testimony from 502 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 2: someone named Tyrell Morrison. And from what I found is 503 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 2: that Tyrell was thirty years old and he basically was 504 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 2: drinking Buddies with Raymond, and he drank with Raymond and Tina. 505 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 2: And so Tyrell Morrison actually testified that he saw Tina 506 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 2: and Raymond arguing because he had sold Tina's bike frame 507 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 2: for drugs. 508 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 3: And other witnesses testified that they saw the two of 509 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 3: them together. So Tina with this fifty three year old 510 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 3: man leading up and on August eighth, the day she 511 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 3: actually went missing. 512 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: Right, So as of this point, we have a lot 513 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: of witnesses kind of having them together. But in the 514 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: trial there's really no forensic evidence being presented or direct 515 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: eyewitness testimony and by a direct I mean eyewitness testimony 516 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: pointing to him and her like during the murder or 517 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: the killing or sometime around there. So really this case 518 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: was built around secret recordings made of Cormier by the police, 519 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: and in these recordings, he talked about finding Tina's killer, 520 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: talked about her death. According to CBC, he quote seemed 521 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: obsessed with Tina's killing, and the prosecutors in this case, 522 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: Jim Ross and Bretta Passler, pointed to these recordings as 523 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: his primary evidence of guilt. 524 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 3: Well, ultimately, Kremier was acquitted on February twenty second, twenty eighteen. 525 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 3: So what do you guys think about this? Like, do 526 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 3: you think he did it? Do you think Katrina did it? Like? 527 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 3: What is your take? I Mean, I'm a little torn, 528 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 3: like I think it could have possibly been just a john, 529 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 3: because Katrina said that, you know, she went off with 530 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 3: this man at three am, and she had agreed to 531 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 3: do some sexual act with him, right, So it could 532 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 3: have just been some crazy john, right, Yeah. 533 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 2: That's the theory I'm leaning towards, is a John, Like 534 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 2: I don't, I don't. I can't see why Katrina would 535 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 2: have any kind of motive to do that. But I 536 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 2: think that authorities pinpointed and we're trying to get you know, 537 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 2: Cormier as the guilty party because that was the easy route, right, 538 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,239 Speaker 2: Like when you're trying to look for a john, like 539 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 2: obviously like they're not going to use their name. I mean, 540 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 2: like there's there's so much more work that they have 541 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 2: to do. I have a feeling that it was whoever 542 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 2: she left with that night when Katrina last saw her. 543 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 2: That's my guess. What do you what are you leaning towards, Trevor? 544 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: You know, I hesitate to really jump to a conclusion 545 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: in a case like this. I think it's another case 546 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: where a body is so decomposed, the remains so degraded 547 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: that we don't really have any evidence or concept of 548 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: like what happened or who it could have been, you know. 549 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: So the longer that a body is left out or 550 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: is decomposed, the less chance you have to like really 551 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: draw any clear conclusion. So I mean, in short, like 552 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, and I've kind of accepted that I 553 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: will never know. I mean, it could have been this 554 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: Cormier fellow. But at the end of the day, I mean, 555 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: I think the way it worked out and the legal 556 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,719 Speaker 1: proceeding is accurate. I mean, if all you have is 557 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,959 Speaker 1: this kind of circumstantial evidence based off of these phone calls, 558 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: that's just not enough to convict that it's not enough 559 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: to draw conclusion in second degree murder. So I really 560 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't have an answer, you know. I 561 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: think the bigger takeaway for me in this is that 562 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: we could have known, right, right, Like, if enough people 563 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: had done better, we could have had a better idea, 564 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: there could have been a better investigation and maybe things 565 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: would be more clear. So that's what I'm most mad about, 566 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: I think when I hear about this case. 567 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 2: So after Cormier, you know, is acquitted, the Manitoba Indigenous 568 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 2: leaders put out a statement that criticized the government for 569 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 2: what had happened to Tina and I am going to 570 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 2: pronounce this name with all of the respect that I 571 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 2: have in my soul. So if I mispronounced it, I 572 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 2: am so sorry. But I am definitely trying. But this 573 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 2: is a very important quote and it comes from the 574 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 2: Key Watsonawi Okimakanak Grand Chief Shila North, and Sheila said, 575 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 2: we as a nation need to do better for our 576 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 2: young people. We've all failed her. 577 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 3: That is such a powerful statement, I mean, and that 578 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 3: resonates so deep, I'm sure to all of us if 579 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 3: we think about it, the CFS, the police, her parents, 580 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 3: I mean, there were so many times that Tina could 581 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 3: have been helped, absolutely right. But with that being said, 582 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 3: there is light in this story. After Tina's murder, as 583 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 3: well as the murders of many other Indigenous women, there 584 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 3: have been numerous social movements and legislative efforts that came 585 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 3: through to support women in both Canada and the US. 586 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 2: Finally, so yes, in twenty sixteen, the National Inquiry into 587 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 2: Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women was formed. It's a commission 588 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 2: that operates independently of the Canadian government and has brought 589 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,280 Speaker 2: to light the violent and dangerous realities that Indigenous women 590 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 2: face every single day. So, as we've already mentioned, Aboriginal 591 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 2: or Native women fifteen years or older are three and 592 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 2: a half times more likely to experience violence than non 593 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 2: Aboriginal women, and fifty four percent of Aboriginal women reported 594 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 2: severe forms of family violence versus thirty seven percent of 595 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,280 Speaker 2: non Aboriginal women. And in the United States, the National 596 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 2: Crime Information Center reported in twenty sixteen that there were 597 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 2: five thousand, seven hundred and twelve reports of missing American, Indian, 598 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 2: and Alaska Native women and girls, but the US Department 599 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 2: of Justice's Federal Missing Persons Database names only logged one 600 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,320 Speaker 2: hundred and sixteen cases. 601 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 3: That's just mind boggling. Yeah, okay, So I'm going to 602 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 3: tell you about some really good things that came out 603 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 3: of this. In March of twenty eighteen, a twenty four 604 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 3: to seven space called Tina's Safe Haven was open on 605 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 3: Selkirk Avenue in Tina's memory. The shelter provides around the 606 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 3: clock support and resources for the Winnipeg youth, and this 607 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 3: was made possible by a three hundred and fifty thousand 608 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:54,800 Speaker 3: dollars grant from the Canadian government. This grant was huge 609 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 3: for them. 610 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 2: So and more recently in October of twenty twenty, then 611 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 2: President Trump actually signed Savannah's Act into law. The Act 612 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 2: was co sponsored by Alaskan Senator Lisa Murkowski and Nevada 613 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 2: Senator Catherine Cortes Mastow, and it provides resources and increases 614 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 2: coordination across government agencies to help solve cases involving missing 615 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 2: and murdered Indigenous women and girls. And this legislation is 616 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 2: actually named after a real person. Savannah Lafontaine Graywynd was 617 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 2: a twenty two year old Indigenous woman who was abducted 618 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 2: and killed in North Dakota in twenty seventeen. And ironically 619 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 2: and sadly, her body was also found in the same river, 620 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 2: the Red River, that Tina Fontaine's body was found in. 621 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 2: So there is still so much more work to do 622 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 2: to protect these young girls. But hopefully by sharing Tina's story, 623 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 2: we can help put a face to these issues that 624 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 2: are happening in these Native communities. You know, I have 625 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 2: a very inquisitive ten year old, right, I mean, Yvette 626 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 2: knows her niece, my daughter, Leilani. She wants to know everything, everything, everything, 627 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 2: and at ten years old, you know, and being you know, 628 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 2: descendants from an a Q serial killer, you can only 629 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 2: tell her so much. So I tell her little things, 630 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 2: but she hears her mommy and her auntie, you know, 631 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 2: talking about the cases we're doing on Facing Evil. So 632 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 2: she was asking me about this one and I almost 633 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,399 Speaker 2: actually broke down in tears talking about it because I 634 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 2: was about to say, you know, a young Indigenous woman 635 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,879 Speaker 2: named Tina Fontaine was murdered, but I couldn't get those 636 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 2: words out of my mouth. I said, a young girl 637 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 2: was murdered who was only just a few years older 638 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 2: than you, Leilani. And she was asking all kinds of questions. 639 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 2: She wanted to know about her family, her upbringing, and 640 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 2: she even said She's like, I'm sure she just was 641 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 2: really sad that her dad was killed and so that's 642 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 2: why she went down a dark path. And I'm like, 643 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 2: oh my god, from the mouths of babes. But you know, it, 644 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:19,719 Speaker 2: just I think it's important to tell Leilani and tell 645 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 2: the world all these stories. You know, we have to 646 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 2: tell people that things are going on so that it 647 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 2: can stop. 648 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 3: Right, and we have to tell it so those that 649 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 3: are not aware that this is happening, or should I say, 650 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 3: those that want to stay in a bubble, right, You 651 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 3: know that we have to change it. We have to 652 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,760 Speaker 3: change it, so we have to share their stories. 653 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,399 Speaker 2: Yep. It's important to tell the world who Tina Fontaine 654 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 2: was so we can help other missing and murdered Indigenous 655 00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 2: women and girls across the world. And now it's time 656 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 2: for the last segment of our show. Our Emua and 657 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 2: Imua means to move onward and upward, and to move forward. 658 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 2: It's our final message of hope and healing. 659 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 3: That's right Russia and our Emua today needs to be 660 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 3: a loud roar, a call to action. We need to 661 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 3: bring more attention to the epidemic of missing and murdered 662 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 3: Indigenous women and children all across the US and Canada. 663 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:38,359 Speaker 3: We really need to tell their stories. People need to 664 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 3: know who they are, and we need to hold people 665 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 3: accountable and lift them up. 666 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. And my call to action, however 667 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 2: small it may seem, is for all of us to 668 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:59,839 Speaker 2: follow social media content creators, Indigenous creators like Eugene Brave Rock, 669 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 2: Candy Brings Plenty, and the m MIP which is the 670 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:09,439 Speaker 2: Missing and Murdered Indigenous People and Mutual Aid organization, follow them, 671 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 2: support them and help humans like Tina I believe this 672 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 2: is a way we all can move onward and upward. 673 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 3: Emua emua. Well, that is our show for today. We 674 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 3: would love to hear what you thought about today's discussions 675 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 3: and if there is a case that you'd like us 676 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,800 Speaker 3: to cover. Please find us on social media or email 677 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:40,320 Speaker 3: us at Facingego Pod at tenderfoot dot tv until next time. 678 00:40:41,080 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 5: Aloha. 679 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,439 Speaker 1: Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. 680 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: The show is hosted by Russia Pacuerero and a Vet Gentile. 681 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 1: Matt Frederick and Alex Williams our executive producers on behalf 682 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:25,720 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk, Donald 683 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: albright In Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf of 684 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Claudia Dafrico. 685 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,360 Speaker 1: Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on 686 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: social media or email us at Facingevilpod at tenderfoot dot tv. 687 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV, visit the 688 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 689 00:41:53,120 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: favorite shows.