Speaker 1: Welcome to River Cafe Table four, a production of iHeartRadio
Speaker 1: and Adamized Studios.
Speaker 2: My name is Erda Moraleo Glue. Thank you so much
Speaker 2: for having me do this. By the way, I'm so otherwise.
Speaker 3: It's so nice. It's just an excuse to see you.
Speaker 2: It's a good make you go to extreme lengths.
Speaker 4: I had to see people.
Speaker 3: I did doing this podcast I could get.
Speaker 4: It's great.
Speaker 3: That's some things else stooped to. Meeting someone in another
Speaker 3: country often forms an immediate friendship. In twenty nineteen, Urdam,
Speaker 3: the designer of Beautiful Clothes, and his husband Philip Joseph
Speaker 3: and I were together in Mexico City. They were days
Speaker 3: of discoveries, searching for the perfect tequila, breakfast at Nito,
Speaker 3: our favorite spot, eating every taco and tamali we could find.
Speaker 3: A friendship that began on vacation has followed us home
Speaker 3: to London, where three years later we are still talking,
Speaker 3: discovering and sharing food together here in the River Cafe
Speaker 3: with a glass of perfect tequila. That's what we're going
Speaker 3: to do today.
Speaker 2: I'm here to read the recipe of pan fried calves
Speaker 2: liver with cavalonero. This recipe serves two. In my case,
Speaker 2: I would be normally eating the entire recipe or by myself,
Speaker 2: so I'll begin. What you'll need are two thick slices
Speaker 2: of calves liver, sea salt and some freshly ground black pepper,
Speaker 2: a tablespoon of extra virgin or olive oil, fifty milliliters
Speaker 2: of balsamic vinegar, and also my favorite part, fifty millilters
Speaker 2: of crem fresh. Now to serve, you're going to need
Speaker 2: some braised cavalonaro. There's a wonderful recipe for that well,
Speaker 2: which I won't get into today, but do keep that
Speaker 2: to one side and keep it warm. Season the liver
Speaker 2: on both sides with salt and pepper. Brush a large
Speaker 2: frying pan with olive oil, and when it's very hot,
Speaker 2: fry the liver for one minute on each side. Very
Speaker 2: important that it's only a minute. You could even do
Speaker 2: a little bit less because you want the liver pink.
Speaker 2: Add the balsamic vinegar and turn the liver so that
Speaker 2: it absorbs the vinegar, which will reduce almost immediately. This
Speaker 2: is the wonderful part. Add the crem fresh and let
Speaker 2: it melt into the vinegar. Remove and serve on top
Speaker 2: of the delicious cablonaro pouring over some of the sauce
Speaker 2: that we've just made in the pan.
Speaker 3: Delicious, delicious and beautifully red. Actually, you haven't really looked
Speaker 3: at that recipe for a while. It's in our very
Speaker 3: very first cookbook, and as why wonderful Ardam did you
Speaker 3: choose the recipe?
Speaker 2: Liver is a funny thing to serve. It's a very
Speaker 2: divisive meal, and liver I remember as a child for
Speaker 2: something that I hated, something my father loved, and gradually
Speaker 2: as I grew up, I grew up to love liver.
Speaker 2: And this recipe is wonderful. I've tried it a few
Speaker 2: times and it's and it's always something I so enjoy. However,
Speaker 2: my other half, Philip, hates liver, so this recipe that
Speaker 2: serves two is really truly a recipe that serves me
Speaker 2: one perfectly, So it's delicious.
Speaker 3: If you knew you had an evening on your own,
Speaker 3: would you say, I think I'll have a liver tonight,
Speaker 3: Because it's just me.
Speaker 2: That is exactly what I do. So if I know
Speaker 2: that I'm not cooking for both of us, I'll be
Speaker 2: able to get into offel, which I love. Kidneys, kidneys
Speaker 2: I love, yes, yeah, absolutely, the kind of and also
Speaker 2: kind of gamey things. I also really really like it's.
Speaker 3: Interesting about this recipe. I was looking at it again
Speaker 3: and I was thinking that, you know, before we open
Speaker 3: the River Cafe, Richard and I lived in Paris for
Speaker 3: six years, and the revelation for me was again the
Speaker 3: butchers having veal liver, which is so delicate, and the
Speaker 3: idea that you'd go to buy liver and there'd be
Speaker 3: a hole liver. They would never have pieces of liver
Speaker 3: in a tray. They'd bring up the whole liver and
Speaker 3: they would slice it to the thickness that you wanted.
Speaker 3: And the other extreme if you had brains, which is
Speaker 3: another awful I don't know if you'd like brains. I
Speaker 3: remember they would bring out the head, the head of
Speaker 3: the calf and take the brains out, which is kind
Speaker 3: of extreme for a twenty five year old living from
Speaker 3: upstate New York in Paris. And then bringing this love
Speaker 3: for the old liver back to the River Cafe. We
Speaker 3: italianated it both through Bosomic vinegar which is made in Modina,
Speaker 3: and then as you say, the cavalo narrow and when
Speaker 3: you were growing up and talking just now about growing
Speaker 3: up with them. It was your father was Turkish and
Speaker 3: your mother was British. British, so how did that fit
Speaker 3: in with a kind of education or awareness of food
Speaker 3: through two very different food cultures.
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting, Ruthie that you mentioned brains, because literally
Speaker 2: I remember my father cooking brains, and when he would
Speaker 2: cook brains, my sister and I would literally take refuge
Speaker 2: in the basement.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 4: It was a thing.
Speaker 2: My father would every so often go on a kind
Speaker 2: of awful tangents exactly, Well for a seven year old me,
Speaker 2: it was aw yeah, exactly, it was the awful. But
Speaker 2: it's such an interesting way to grow up, you know,
Speaker 2: looking back on our childhood, you know, it was all
Speaker 2: about contrast. My father would make these wonderful kind of
Speaker 2: Turkish dishes, amazing stuffed eggplants and dolma and cookde and
Speaker 2: lukmash and all of these great foods, and of course
Speaker 2: contrasted with my mum, who was from the Midlands. She
Speaker 2: was straightforward English food, cottage pie, sausage and mash and
Speaker 2: you know, good Sunday roast, all all of those kind
Speaker 2: of good, straightforward dishes. And the contrast between the two
Speaker 2: was amazing.
Speaker 3: Where did your father grow up? Tell me about this
Speaker 3: Turkish man cooking this incredible food from his Yeah, this
Speaker 3: is such an identity.
Speaker 2: Well, it's an interesting story. So my father grew up
Speaker 2: in eastern eastern eastern Turkey, so in a place called Antakia,
Speaker 2: which is an in an area called Hattai, which is
Speaker 2: really not far away from the Syrian border Syrian border, yees,
Speaker 2: so really very eastern. And my father was going to
Speaker 2: university in Geneva and my mum was working in Geneva
Speaker 2: at the time.
Speaker 3: Like here would it be?
Speaker 2: Oh, this is like in the late sixties, early seventies,
Speaker 2: And so they met in a cafe.
Speaker 3: Fell in love save food again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they absolutely fell in love over a dish of
Speaker 2: some kind. And so they fell in love and then
Speaker 2: spent many years in Switzerland and then decided to I'm
Speaker 2: a to Canada, where myself and my twin sister were born.
Speaker 3: Do you always cook? Could he get the ingredients? Do
Speaker 3: you think? In Canada?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 2: I remember the ingredients were always a big It involved
Speaker 2: a big family trip to a local Lebanese grocery store
Speaker 2: called Adonis that was on the outskirts of Montreal, and
Speaker 2: it was amazing because they had a great selection of
Speaker 2: Lebanese food and of course Turkish food. You know, keep
Speaker 2: in mind there's a huge Turkish community in Canada as well.
Speaker 2: But what I remember the most was both my parents cooking,
Speaker 2: and there were both avid cooks, and even I remember
Speaker 2: my mum making, you know, homemade yogurt. So you'd be
Speaker 2: having kind of some kind of baked aubergine with my
Speaker 2: mum's homemade yogurt. And it was, you know, looking back
Speaker 2: at it, extraordinary, very healthy, great food. As a child,
Speaker 2: I wanted a hot dog, or I wanted you know,
Speaker 2: craft dinner, macaroni and cheese. I was, you know, I wanted.
Speaker 2: I was attracted to foods that were very unnatural colors.
Speaker 3: And do you think that was a kind of rebellion
Speaker 3: or do you just loved a natural other colors?
Speaker 2: Unnatural color, the more unnatural, the more I you know,
Speaker 2: I wanted exactly. I wanted kind of soda that was
Speaker 2: like bright orange, and you know, all of those things
Speaker 2: that kids of my generation I think were really attracted to.
Speaker 3: Do you still crave a coke and a hot dog
Speaker 3: or have you left that behind?
Speaker 4: I've left that behind, actually, And and I definitely lean
Speaker 4: more towards you know, my mother's homemade yogurt or a
Speaker 4: kind of a wonderful you know, roasted eggplant dish from
Speaker 4: my dad.
Speaker 3: As if good Turkish restaurants in London, do you always
Speaker 3: cook it at home or do you find places that
Speaker 3: you can go to?
Speaker 2: There's some wonderful Turkish restaurants actually, and where we used
Speaker 2: to live in Hackney, there's a whole you know, extraordinary
Speaker 2: Turkish community and with that some some really fantastic restaurants.
Speaker 3: Food takes you to a culture, you know, that's actually
Speaker 3: you know, if you asked me about Istanbul, yes in Turkey,
Speaker 3: I would say, you know, yes, we went to the
Speaker 3: Blue Mask, we went to the I thought the Bosphorus
Speaker 3: was probably the most romantic vision I ever had. But
Speaker 3: I can tell you that practically every meal I had
Speaker 3: to have the way they cook auber jeans in Turkey,
Speaker 3: the way the very thin ober jeans with the tomatoes sauce,
Speaker 3: and that both the delicacy of the food and the
Speaker 3: strength and confidence of that food. I thought it was
Speaker 3: so exciting, the Turkish food diet. And do you work
Speaker 3: in a restaurant? We told people who love going to
Speaker 3: a restaurant by themselves and just working.
Speaker 2: I actually thought you meant had I ever literally and
Speaker 2: have you worked in a restaurant? And I did work
Speaker 2: in a restaurant, and it was the only job I
Speaker 2: was ever fired from as a waiter. I was fired
Speaker 2: after day one.
Speaker 3: What did you do?
Speaker 2: I was given the food to deliver to a table,
Speaker 2: and I think I might have just discreetly pointed at
Speaker 2: the table to confirm what direction I was going in,
Speaker 2: and the pointing perhaps I was gesticulating quite in an
Speaker 2: animated manner. I didn't think I was. But that was
Speaker 2: that was it. I had to I had to return
Speaker 2: my uniform and it was a very short lived career
Speaker 2: in the restaurant world. In Where was it in London? Yeah?
Speaker 2: We were in London. Yeah it wasn't. It wasn't the
Speaker 2: River Cafe.
Speaker 3: I was fired my I think my third day of
Speaker 3: working as a waitress and wouldstock and I just kept
Speaker 3: telling people, please don't get a cross with me because
Speaker 3: it's my first day. But actually I think I'd been
Speaker 3: there a week and I was still making the mistakes.
Speaker 3: You designed the most beautiful clothes. I would say that
Speaker 3: I probably never in all my years, owned a dress
Speaker 3: with a flower on it, until you gave me the
Speaker 3: most beautiful dress, which I wore over and over I
Speaker 3: still wear, and you've given me many clothes your generosity.
Speaker 3: I wore dress you designed for your wedding. And as
Speaker 3: one of how in the world, of your career, of
Speaker 3: your profession, how food merges with fashion.
Speaker 2: Of course, every season there's a show, a live fashion shows,
Speaker 2: which for the past fifteen years we've been able to
Speaker 2: have twice a year, and it's extraordinary. And of course
Speaker 2: after the show, there's always a moment where usually I
Speaker 2: show on a Monday, usually Monday morning, so inevitably I'll
Speaker 2: have a kind of quite blurry eyed lunch with Philip,
Speaker 2: my sister and various friends, just a small little lunch
Speaker 2: after the show. So's it's kind of a funny moment
Speaker 2: because you've kind of done this thing. It's a huge
Speaker 2: body of work that you've kind of put out into
Speaker 2: the world, that you've been working on for six months,
Speaker 2: and then it kind of ends with them, just a
Speaker 2: lovely meal with everyone you really with everyone you really love.
Speaker 3: Is it always in London or is it in Paris?
Speaker 2: Or is it always in London? Because the show's in London.
Speaker 2: It's really actually it changes every season because it's dependent
Speaker 2: on where the show is.
Speaker 3: Tell us about the last show.
Speaker 2: The last show we were able to show in the
Speaker 2: Bridge Theater, which was wonderful and it was it was
Speaker 2: really the last show was a kind of a love
Speaker 2: letter to the world of ballet, which is a world
Speaker 2: I love and very much a world I miss. I
Speaker 2: think the seed for that collection was probably planted about
Speaker 2: three years ago when I was invited by the Royal
Speaker 2: Ballet to design costumes, and there was something about standing
Speaker 2: in the wings and watching the rehearsals and that kind
Speaker 2: of moment when the curtains are closed, which is almost
Speaker 2: kind of slightly hitchcocky in it's like something's about to happen.
Speaker 2: The dancer is kind of walking across the stage taking
Speaker 2: their position, and it was that kind of moment that
Speaker 2: really kind of inspired the last collection.
Speaker 3: So beautiful, there's something so different about them, and also
Speaker 3: how short they are and how you get in a way,
Speaker 3: you'd almost say a parallel of cooking, because when I cook,
Speaker 3: I was I have created something really beautiful and then
Speaker 3: it's eaten and it's over. Yes, okay, that's it. And
Speaker 3: seeing your show, seeing the models walking down at Lincoln's
Speaker 3: Field and then it's over.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's it's funny, it's exactly as you say.
Speaker 2: It's that kind of creation of a fleeting moment. And
Speaker 2: and there's something kind of quite beautiful about having a
Speaker 2: show that is a fleeting moment. You know, it's that
Speaker 2: eight minutes that you have to be there. I think
Speaker 2: there's definitely something about having a live audience that gives
Speaker 2: it a kind of an electricity.
Speaker 3: We talked to an actor does theater. Yes, you know,
Speaker 3: he described exactly what you described as after the show,
Speaker 3: you're starving and you go out with your friend or
Speaker 3: somebody who's in the show, or you discuss. You know,
Speaker 3: that's the after and then before the show you have
Speaker 3: to eat because otherwise, but you're there in this pristine
Speaker 3: environment of fabric and pins, and you know, what do
Speaker 3: you do about food?
Speaker 2: Well, food's really important actually, and I think for a show,
Speaker 2: we definitely have a moment where the entire team stops,
Speaker 2: and we really truly stop for about forty five minutes,
Speaker 2: and we'll generally get something catered that's usually quite healthy
Speaker 2: roast chicken breast with the salad and you know, something
Speaker 2: a little bit stodgy to kind of keep everyone going,
Speaker 2: and particularly like you know, when you have the entire
Speaker 2: team are on their feet, the models, everyone is, you know,
Speaker 2: it's a very kind of it's quite physical, so definitely
Speaker 2: good to have that moment to stop. And it's a
Speaker 2: tradition in the studio the night before the show, because
Speaker 2: usually inevitably it's quite a late night, there is a
Speaker 2: massive pizza delivery and so pizza is.
Speaker 3: Had by all models included.
Speaker 2: Usually the models have been and gone by that moment,
Speaker 2: so so it's all of us in the in the trenches.
Speaker 3: Your wedding. Tell us about where it.
Speaker 2: Was, Well, it was at the Queen's House. It's an
Speaker 2: extraordinary beautiful building kind of tucked away next to the
Speaker 2: Maritime Museum along the river, and it's a very architecturally,
Speaker 2: a very important building. And my other half, Philip, is
Speaker 2: an architect. We've been together for you know, over eighteen years,
Speaker 2: and so to do something really kind of special, to
Speaker 2: mark that and celebrate it was was amazing.
Speaker 3: It was beautiful and I thought all the speeches with
Speaker 3: your sisters, I remember, I remember yours, I remember Phillips.
Speaker 3: But at the end of yours. Do you remember you
Speaker 3: thanked the movement of brave people who had made a
Speaker 3: marriage between two men possible.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: I thought that was very moving, and that you took
Speaker 3: it away from your love to a kind of recognition
Speaker 3: and gratitude, which was you know, it took us into
Speaker 3: another part of what love is. It.
Speaker 2: It was a very kind of important moment for us
Speaker 2: both to acknowledge everyone who had actually gotten us to
Speaker 2: the point where we could legally get married, and it
Speaker 2: was a battle that had long been fought by many,
Speaker 2: many people, some of whom are here, some of whom
Speaker 2: are not, And it felt like it was absolutely appropriate
Speaker 2: to acknowledge that what we were able to do on
Speaker 2: that day was something that really wasn't legally allowed until
Speaker 2: very recently, which is kind of mind boggling. Really it
Speaker 2: was a dream, and I really truly mean that, you know,
Speaker 2: growing up, the idea that I would be able to
Speaker 2: you know, fall in love and marry someone you know,
Speaker 2: you know, twenty five years ago, that was something that
Speaker 2: would be impossible.
Speaker 3: And I think that it would be interesting to know
Speaker 3: about gender and cooking, you know, gender and food, because again,
Speaker 3: as I alluded to before about father's not cooking and
Speaker 3: mother's cooking, or how certainly my husband's generation, Richard, I mean,
Speaker 3: he was very definitely kept out of the kitchen, you
Speaker 3: know somehow. And then when I spoke to Christian Annapoor,
Speaker 3: who grew up in an Iranian family and her father
Speaker 3: had such ambitions for her that there was a feeling
Speaker 3: that if he went into the kitchen that somehow that's
Speaker 3: as a woman, that would be your role. Yes, you know,
Speaker 3: and I've heard of other stories of fathers who really
Speaker 3: encouraged their daughters not to go in the kitchen. Yes,
Speaker 3: I would say, it's a bit like me. Not my generation.
Speaker 3: We didn't want to learn how to type because we
Speaker 3: thought we'd be secretaries. Yes we had English degrees, but
Speaker 3: we would be a secretary. And so do you think
Speaker 3: that men in the kitchen is something that is now
Speaker 3: more recognized or acceptable or.
Speaker 2: I think it's a really interesting question actually in gender
Speaker 2: and growing up was a very interesting thing. Also having
Speaker 2: a twin who's the opposite sex, and you know, going
Speaker 2: through every single stage of your life as someone who
Speaker 2: is a part of you, but the female. So I think,
Speaker 2: you know, right from the beginning, these kind of constructs
Speaker 2: of gender were kind of almost like not applicable. It
Speaker 2: didn't I didn't, you know, I would play with my
Speaker 2: sister's toys. My sister would play with my toys. So
Speaker 2: it wasn't specific roles for specific people within the family.
Speaker 2: And you know, when it comes to cooking and my
Speaker 2: father and my mother, they definitely very much worked as
Speaker 2: a team. I would never ever think that like cooking
Speaker 2: is a woman's role or or associated with a gender.
Speaker 2: That was just not something I ever I ever did.
Speaker 3: Actually, do you and Philip cooked together? Do cook well together?
Speaker 3: Do you argue? Do you have fun like your parents did?
Speaker 3: Is it competitive or is it's sort of different because
Speaker 3: he's he really loves food.
Speaker 2: Philip loves food, but he's also very specific on the
Speaker 2: foods that he that he loves and also quite vocal
Speaker 2: about the foods he doesn't like. But yeah, no, Philip's
Speaker 2: an excellent cook and also on my list of recipes
Speaker 2: to read was going to be a lemon tart, but
Speaker 2: that would have been dishonest because Philip is the one
Speaker 2: who has made numerous times the lemon tart. So Philip's
Speaker 2: also an excellent baker. He's very he's very good. It's
Speaker 2: exactly that it's the kind of like exact kind of measurements,
Speaker 2: which I will admit that I'm a little bit more
Speaker 2: of a free spirit in the kitchen.
Speaker 3: So did you put more pisama vinegar in your calves liver?
Speaker 4: I might have.
Speaker 2: I might have freestyled a little bit with the vinegar.
Speaker 2: I certainly the crumb fresh, I will admit to.
Speaker 3: You, eat it every chance you get.
Speaker 2: I love crumb fresh. And actually the last time I
Speaker 2: had crumb fresh, really truly was when Philip last weekend
Speaker 2: made a lemon tart. He made your lemon tart, which
Speaker 2: is quite a big lemon tart. And so the rest
Speaker 2: of the evening was spent kind of dividing the lemon tart,
Speaker 2: wrapping each piece in wax paper, perfectly decanting crumbfresh, and
Speaker 2: then sending off a piece to my sister and then
Speaker 2: another piece to another friend so that we wouldn't sit
Speaker 2: in front of the TV and eat the whole thing,
Speaker 2: the entire lemon, the whole thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what might happen the foods that we go to
Speaker 3: when we feel, you know, that we want to eat
Speaker 3: not just because we're hungry, but because we need some
Speaker 3: sort of comfort. And I was wondering what would be
Speaker 3: your comfort food.
Speaker 2: I would say my comfort food because we used to
Speaker 2: do on occasion at home and not even on occasion,
Speaker 2: quite often have spaghetti bolonnaise. And my sister can make
Speaker 2: the most perfect spaghetti bolonnies, my twin sister, and so
Speaker 2: I would describe my comfort food as her spaghetti bolonnaise.
Speaker 2: It's incredibly comforting. Yes, makes it quite sleepy actually after
Speaker 2: you you.
Speaker 3: Know, there's something about the meat and the past. Anyway,
Speaker 3: thank you, you're my comfort. Thank you for coming.
Speaker 4: You're mine. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much for having.
Speaker 3: Me well as spahetti balladays I love it. And yeah,
Speaker 3: comfort food Okay, thank you.
Speaker 4: Dan, Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3: To visit the online shop of the River Cafe, go
Speaker 3: to shop Therivercafe dot co dot uk.
Speaker 1: River Cafe Table four is a production of iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Adami Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
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