1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to River Cafe Table four, a production of iHeartRadio 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: and Adamized Studios. 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 2: My name is Erda Moraleo Glue. Thank you so much 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 2: for having me do this. By the way, I'm so otherwise. 5 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 3: It's so nice. It's just an excuse to see you. 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 2: It's a good make you go to extreme lengths. 7 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 4: I had to see people. 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 3: I did doing this podcast I could get. 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 4: It's great. 10 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 3: That's some things else stooped to. Meeting someone in another 11 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 3: country often forms an immediate friendship. In twenty nineteen, Urdam, 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 3: the designer of Beautiful Clothes, and his husband Philip Joseph 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 3: and I were together in Mexico City. They were days 14 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 3: of discoveries, searching for the perfect tequila, breakfast at Nito, 15 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 3: our favorite spot, eating every taco and tamali we could find. 16 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 3: A friendship that began on vacation has followed us home 17 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 3: to London, where three years later we are still talking, 18 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 3: discovering and sharing food together here in the River Cafe 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 3: with a glass of perfect tequila. That's what we're going 20 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 3: to do today. 21 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: I'm here to read the recipe of pan fried calves 22 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:28,279 Speaker 2: liver with cavalonero. This recipe serves two. In my case, 23 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 2: I would be normally eating the entire recipe or by myself, 24 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 2: so I'll begin. What you'll need are two thick slices 25 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 2: of calves liver, sea salt and some freshly ground black pepper, 26 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 2: a tablespoon of extra virgin or olive oil, fifty milliliters 27 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 2: of balsamic vinegar, and also my favorite part, fifty millilters 28 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: of crem fresh. Now to serve, you're going to need 29 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: some braised cavalonaro. There's a wonderful recipe for that well, 30 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 2: which I won't get into today, but do keep that 31 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 2: to one side and keep it warm. Season the liver 32 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: on both sides with salt and pepper. Brush a large 33 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 2: frying pan with olive oil, and when it's very hot, 34 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 2: fry the liver for one minute on each side. Very 35 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 2: important that it's only a minute. You could even do 36 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 2: a little bit less because you want the liver pink. 37 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 2: Add the balsamic vinegar and turn the liver so that 38 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 2: it absorbs the vinegar, which will reduce almost immediately. This 39 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 2: is the wonderful part. Add the crem fresh and let 40 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 2: it melt into the vinegar. Remove and serve on top 41 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 2: of the delicious cablonaro pouring over some of the sauce 42 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: that we've just made in the pan. 43 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 3: Delicious, delicious and beautifully red. Actually, you haven't really looked 44 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 3: at that recipe for a while. It's in our very 45 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 3: very first cookbook, and as why wonderful Ardam did you 46 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 3: choose the recipe? 47 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,119 Speaker 2: Liver is a funny thing to serve. It's a very 48 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 2: divisive meal, and liver I remember as a child for 49 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 2: something that I hated, something my father loved, and gradually 50 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 2: as I grew up, I grew up to love liver. 51 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 2: And this recipe is wonderful. I've tried it a few 52 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: times and it's and it's always something I so enjoy. However, 53 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 2: my other half, Philip, hates liver, so this recipe that 54 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 2: serves two is really truly a recipe that serves me 55 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 2: one perfectly, So it's delicious. 56 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 3: If you knew you had an evening on your own, 57 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 3: would you say, I think I'll have a liver tonight, 58 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 3: Because it's just me. 59 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: That is exactly what I do. So if I know 60 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 2: that I'm not cooking for both of us, I'll be 61 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: able to get into offel, which I love. Kidneys, kidneys 62 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: I love, yes, yeah, absolutely, the kind of and also 63 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 2: kind of gamey things. I also really really like it's. 64 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 3: Interesting about this recipe. I was looking at it again 65 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 3: and I was thinking that, you know, before we open 66 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 3: the River Cafe, Richard and I lived in Paris for 67 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 3: six years, and the revelation for me was again the 68 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 3: butchers having veal liver, which is so delicate, and the 69 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 3: idea that you'd go to buy liver and there'd be 70 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 3: a hole liver. They would never have pieces of liver 71 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 3: in a tray. They'd bring up the whole liver and 72 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 3: they would slice it to the thickness that you wanted. 73 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 3: And the other extreme if you had brains, which is 74 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 3: another awful I don't know if you'd like brains. I 75 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 3: remember they would bring out the head, the head of 76 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 3: the calf and take the brains out, which is kind 77 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 3: of extreme for a twenty five year old living from 78 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 3: upstate New York in Paris. And then bringing this love 79 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 3: for the old liver back to the River Cafe. We 80 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 3: italianated it both through Bosomic vinegar which is made in Modina, 81 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 3: and then as you say, the cavalo narrow and when 82 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 3: you were growing up and talking just now about growing 83 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 3: up with them. It was your father was Turkish and 84 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 3: your mother was British. British, so how did that fit 85 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 3: in with a kind of education or awareness of food 86 00:04:58,160 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 3: through two very different food cultures. 87 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting, Ruthie that you mentioned brains, because literally 88 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: I remember my father cooking brains, and when he would 89 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: cook brains, my sister and I would literally take refuge 90 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: in the basement. 91 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 3: It was. 92 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 4: It was a thing. 93 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 2: My father would every so often go on a kind 94 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 2: of awful tangents exactly, Well for a seven year old me, 95 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 2: it was aw yeah, exactly, it was the awful. But 96 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 2: it's such an interesting way to grow up, you know, 97 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 2: looking back on our childhood, you know, it was all 98 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: about contrast. My father would make these wonderful kind of 99 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 2: Turkish dishes, amazing stuffed eggplants and dolma and cookde and 100 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 2: lukmash and all of these great foods, and of course 101 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 2: contrasted with my mum, who was from the Midlands. She 102 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: was straightforward English food, cottage pie, sausage and mash and 103 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: you know, good Sunday roast, all all of those kind 104 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 2: of good, straightforward dishes. And the contrast between the two 105 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 2: was amazing. 106 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 3: Where did your father grow up? Tell me about this 107 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 3: Turkish man cooking this incredible food from his Yeah, this 108 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 3: is such an identity. 109 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 2: Well, it's an interesting story. So my father grew up 110 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 2: in eastern eastern eastern Turkey, so in a place called Antakia, 111 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 2: which is an in an area called Hattai, which is 112 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 2: really not far away from the Syrian border Syrian border, yees, 113 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 2: so really very eastern. And my father was going to 114 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 2: university in Geneva and my mum was working in Geneva 115 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 2: at the time. 116 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 3: Like here would it be? 117 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 2: Oh, this is like in the late sixties, early seventies, 118 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 2: And so they met in a cafe. 119 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 3: Fell in love save food again. 120 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, they absolutely fell in love over a dish of 121 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 2: some kind. And so they fell in love and then 122 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 2: spent many years in Switzerland and then decided to I'm 123 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 2: a to Canada, where myself and my twin sister were born. 124 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 3: Do you always cook? Could he get the ingredients? Do 125 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 3: you think? In Canada? 126 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 4: Well? 127 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 2: I remember the ingredients were always a big It involved 128 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 2: a big family trip to a local Lebanese grocery store 129 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 2: called Adonis that was on the outskirts of Montreal, and 130 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 2: it was amazing because they had a great selection of 131 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 2: Lebanese food and of course Turkish food. You know, keep 132 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 2: in mind there's a huge Turkish community in Canada as well. 133 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 2: But what I remember the most was both my parents cooking, 134 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: and there were both avid cooks, and even I remember 135 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 2: my mum making, you know, homemade yogurt. So you'd be 136 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: having kind of some kind of baked aubergine with my 137 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: mum's homemade yogurt. And it was, you know, looking back 138 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 2: at it, extraordinary, very healthy, great food. As a child, 139 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 2: I wanted a hot dog, or I wanted you know, 140 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 2: craft dinner, macaroni and cheese. I was, you know, I wanted. 141 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: I was attracted to foods that were very unnatural colors. 142 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 3: And do you think that was a kind of rebellion 143 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 3: or do you just loved a natural other colors? 144 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 2: Unnatural color, the more unnatural, the more I you know, 145 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: I wanted exactly. I wanted kind of soda that was 146 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 2: like bright orange, and you know, all of those things 147 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 2: that kids of my generation I think were really attracted to. 148 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 3: Do you still crave a coke and a hot dog 149 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 3: or have you left that behind? 150 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 4: I've left that behind, actually, And and I definitely lean 151 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 4: more towards you know, my mother's homemade yogurt or a 152 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 4: kind of a wonderful you know, roasted eggplant dish from 153 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 4: my dad. 154 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 3: As if good Turkish restaurants in London, do you always 155 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 3: cook it at home or do you find places that 156 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 3: you can go to? 157 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 2: There's some wonderful Turkish restaurants actually, and where we used 158 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 2: to live in Hackney, there's a whole you know, extraordinary 159 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 2: Turkish community and with that some some really fantastic restaurants. 160 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 3: Food takes you to a culture, you know, that's actually 161 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 3: you know, if you asked me about Istanbul, yes in Turkey, 162 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 3: I would say, you know, yes, we went to the 163 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,079 Speaker 3: Blue Mask, we went to the I thought the Bosphorus 164 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 3: was probably the most romantic vision I ever had. But 165 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 3: I can tell you that practically every meal I had 166 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 3: to have the way they cook auber jeans in Turkey, 167 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 3: the way the very thin ober jeans with the tomatoes sauce, 168 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 3: and that both the delicacy of the food and the 169 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 3: strength and confidence of that food. I thought it was 170 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 3: so exciting, the Turkish food diet. And do you work 171 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 3: in a restaurant? We told people who love going to 172 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 3: a restaurant by themselves and just working. 173 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: I actually thought you meant had I ever literally and 174 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 2: have you worked in a restaurant? And I did work 175 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 2: in a restaurant, and it was the only job I 176 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 2: was ever fired from as a waiter. I was fired 177 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 2: after day one. 178 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 3: What did you do? 179 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 2: I was given the food to deliver to a table, 180 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 2: and I think I might have just discreetly pointed at 181 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 2: the table to confirm what direction I was going in, 182 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 2: and the pointing perhaps I was gesticulating quite in an 183 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 2: animated manner. I didn't think I was. But that was 184 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: that was it. I had to I had to return 185 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 2: my uniform and it was a very short lived career 186 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 2: in the restaurant world. In Where was it in London? Yeah? 187 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 2: We were in London. Yeah it wasn't. It wasn't the 188 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 2: River Cafe. 189 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 3: I was fired my I think my third day of 190 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 3: working as a waitress and wouldstock and I just kept 191 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 3: telling people, please don't get a cross with me because 192 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 3: it's my first day. But actually I think I'd been 193 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 3: there a week and I was still making the mistakes. 194 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 3: You designed the most beautiful clothes. I would say that 195 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 3: I probably never in all my years, owned a dress 196 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 3: with a flower on it, until you gave me the 197 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 3: most beautiful dress, which I wore over and over I 198 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 3: still wear, and you've given me many clothes your generosity. 199 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 3: I wore dress you designed for your wedding. And as 200 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 3: one of how in the world, of your career, of 201 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 3: your profession, how food merges with fashion. 202 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 2: Of course, every season there's a show, a live fashion shows, 203 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 2: which for the past fifteen years we've been able to 204 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 2: have twice a year, and it's extraordinary. And of course 205 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 2: after the show, there's always a moment where usually I 206 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 2: show on a Monday, usually Monday morning, so inevitably I'll 207 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 2: have a kind of quite blurry eyed lunch with Philip, 208 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 2: my sister and various friends, just a small little lunch 209 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 2: after the show. So's it's kind of a funny moment 210 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 2: because you've kind of done this thing. It's a huge 211 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 2: body of work that you've kind of put out into 212 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 2: the world, that you've been working on for six months, 213 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: and then it kind of ends with them, just a 214 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 2: lovely meal with everyone you really with everyone you really love. 215 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 3: Is it always in London or is it in Paris? 216 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 2: Or is it always in London? Because the show's in London. 217 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 2: It's really actually it changes every season because it's dependent 218 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 2: on where the show is. 219 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 3: Tell us about the last show. 220 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 2: The last show we were able to show in the 221 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 2: Bridge Theater, which was wonderful and it was it was 222 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 2: really the last show was a kind of a love 223 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 2: letter to the world of ballet, which is a world 224 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 2: I love and very much a world I miss. I 225 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 2: think the seed for that collection was probably planted about 226 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 2: three years ago when I was invited by the Royal 227 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 2: Ballet to design costumes, and there was something about standing 228 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 2: in the wings and watching the rehearsals and that kind 229 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,559 Speaker 2: of moment when the curtains are closed, which is almost 230 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 2: kind of slightly hitchcocky in it's like something's about to happen. 231 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 2: The dancer is kind of walking across the stage taking 232 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 2: their position, and it was that kind of moment that 233 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 2: really kind of inspired the last collection. 234 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 3: So beautiful, there's something so different about them, and also 235 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 3: how short they are and how you get in a way, 236 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 3: you'd almost say a parallel of cooking, because when I cook, 237 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 3: I was I have created something really beautiful and then 238 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 3: it's eaten and it's over. Yes, okay, that's it. And 239 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 3: seeing your show, seeing the models walking down at Lincoln's 240 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 3: Field and then it's over. 241 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's it's funny, it's exactly as you say. 242 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 2: It's that kind of creation of a fleeting moment. And 243 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 2: and there's something kind of quite beautiful about having a 244 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 2: show that is a fleeting moment. You know, it's that 245 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 2: eight minutes that you have to be there. I think 246 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,839 Speaker 2: there's definitely something about having a live audience that gives 247 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 2: it a kind of an electricity. 248 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 3: We talked to an actor does theater. Yes, you know, 249 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 3: he described exactly what you described as after the show, 250 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 3: you're starving and you go out with your friend or 251 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 3: somebody who's in the show, or you discuss. You know, 252 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 3: that's the after and then before the show you have 253 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 3: to eat because otherwise, but you're there in this pristine 254 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 3: environment of fabric and pins, and you know, what do 255 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 3: you do about food? 256 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 2: Well, food's really important actually, and I think for a show, 257 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 2: we definitely have a moment where the entire team stops, 258 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 2: and we really truly stop for about forty five minutes, 259 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 2: and we'll generally get something catered that's usually quite healthy 260 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 2: roast chicken breast with the salad and you know, something 261 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 2: a little bit stodgy to kind of keep everyone going, 262 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 2: and particularly like you know, when you have the entire 263 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 2: team are on their feet, the models, everyone is, you know, 264 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 2: it's a very kind of it's quite physical, so definitely 265 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 2: good to have that moment to stop. And it's a 266 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 2: tradition in the studio the night before the show, because 267 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 2: usually inevitably it's quite a late night, there is a 268 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 2: massive pizza delivery and so pizza is. 269 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 3: Had by all models included. 270 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: Usually the models have been and gone by that moment, 271 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 2: so so it's all of us in the in the trenches. 272 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 3: Your wedding. Tell us about where it. 273 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 2: Was, Well, it was at the Queen's House. It's an 274 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 2: extraordinary beautiful building kind of tucked away next to the 275 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 2: Maritime Museum along the river, and it's a very architecturally, 276 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 2: a very important building. And my other half, Philip, is 277 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 2: an architect. We've been together for you know, over eighteen years, 278 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 2: and so to do something really kind of special, to 279 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 2: mark that and celebrate it was was amazing. 280 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 3: It was beautiful and I thought all the speeches with 281 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 3: your sisters, I remember, I remember yours, I remember Phillips. 282 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 3: But at the end of yours. Do you remember you 283 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 3: thanked the movement of brave people who had made a 284 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 3: marriage between two men possible. 285 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 2: Yes. 286 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 3: I thought that was very moving, and that you took 287 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 3: it away from your love to a kind of recognition 288 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 3: and gratitude, which was you know, it took us into 289 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 3: another part of what love is. It. 290 00:15:55,520 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 2: It was a very kind of important moment for us 291 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 2: both to acknowledge everyone who had actually gotten us to 292 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: the point where we could legally get married, and it 293 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 2: was a battle that had long been fought by many, 294 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 2: many people, some of whom are here, some of whom 295 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 2: are not, And it felt like it was absolutely appropriate 296 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 2: to acknowledge that what we were able to do on 297 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 2: that day was something that really wasn't legally allowed until 298 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 2: very recently, which is kind of mind boggling. Really it 299 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 2: was a dream, and I really truly mean that, you know, 300 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: growing up, the idea that I would be able to 301 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 2: you know, fall in love and marry someone you know, 302 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 2: you know, twenty five years ago, that was something that 303 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 2: would be impossible. 304 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 3: And I think that it would be interesting to know 305 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 3: about gender and cooking, you know, gender and food, because again, 306 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 3: as I alluded to before about father's not cooking and 307 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 3: mother's cooking, or how certainly my husband's generation, Richard, I mean, 308 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 3: he was very definitely kept out of the kitchen, you 309 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 3: know somehow. And then when I spoke to Christian Annapoor, 310 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 3: who grew up in an Iranian family and her father 311 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 3: had such ambitions for her that there was a feeling 312 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 3: that if he went into the kitchen that somehow that's 313 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 3: as a woman, that would be your role. Yes, you know, 314 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 3: and I've heard of other stories of fathers who really 315 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 3: encouraged their daughters not to go in the kitchen. Yes, 316 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 3: I would say, it's a bit like me. Not my generation. 317 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 3: We didn't want to learn how to type because we 318 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 3: thought we'd be secretaries. Yes we had English degrees, but 319 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 3: we would be a secretary. And so do you think 320 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 3: that men in the kitchen is something that is now 321 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 3: more recognized or acceptable or. 322 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 2: I think it's a really interesting question actually in gender 323 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 2: and growing up was a very interesting thing. Also having 324 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 2: a twin who's the opposite sex, and you know, going 325 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 2: through every single stage of your life as someone who 326 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 2: is a part of you, but the female. So I think, 327 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 2: you know, right from the beginning, these kind of constructs 328 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 2: of gender were kind of almost like not applicable. It 329 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 2: didn't I didn't, you know, I would play with my 330 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 2: sister's toys. My sister would play with my toys. So 331 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 2: it wasn't specific roles for specific people within the family. 332 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 2: And you know, when it comes to cooking and my 333 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 2: father and my mother, they definitely very much worked as 334 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 2: a team. I would never ever think that like cooking 335 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 2: is a woman's role or or associated with a gender. 336 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 2: That was just not something I ever I ever did. 337 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 3: Actually, do you and Philip cooked together? Do cook well together? 338 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 3: Do you argue? Do you have fun like your parents did? 339 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 3: Is it competitive or is it's sort of different because 340 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 3: he's he really loves food. 341 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 2: Philip loves food, but he's also very specific on the 342 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 2: foods that he that he loves and also quite vocal 343 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 2: about the foods he doesn't like. But yeah, no, Philip's 344 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 2: an excellent cook and also on my list of recipes 345 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 2: to read was going to be a lemon tart, but 346 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: that would have been dishonest because Philip is the one 347 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 2: who has made numerous times the lemon tart. So Philip's 348 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 2: also an excellent baker. He's very he's very good. It's 349 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 2: exactly that it's the kind of like exact kind of measurements, 350 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 2: which I will admit that I'm a little bit more 351 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 2: of a free spirit in the kitchen. 352 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 3: So did you put more pisama vinegar in your calves liver? 353 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 4: I might have. 354 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 2: I might have freestyled a little bit with the vinegar. 355 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 2: I certainly the crumb fresh, I will admit to. 356 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 3: You, eat it every chance you get. 357 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 2: I love crumb fresh. And actually the last time I 358 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 2: had crumb fresh, really truly was when Philip last weekend 359 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 2: made a lemon tart. He made your lemon tart, which 360 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 2: is quite a big lemon tart. And so the rest 361 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 2: of the evening was spent kind of dividing the lemon tart, 362 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 2: wrapping each piece in wax paper, perfectly decanting crumbfresh, and 363 00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 2: then sending off a piece to my sister and then 364 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 2: another piece to another friend so that we wouldn't sit 365 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 2: in front of the TV and eat the whole thing, 366 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 2: the entire lemon, the whole thing. 367 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, what might happen the foods that we go to 368 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 3: when we feel, you know, that we want to eat 369 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 3: not just because we're hungry, but because we need some 370 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 3: sort of comfort. And I was wondering what would be 371 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 3: your comfort food. 372 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 2: I would say my comfort food because we used to 373 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 2: do on occasion at home and not even on occasion, 374 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 2: quite often have spaghetti bolonnaise. And my sister can make 375 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 2: the most perfect spaghetti bolonnies, my twin sister, and so 376 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 2: I would describe my comfort food as her spaghetti bolonnaise. 377 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 2: It's incredibly comforting. Yes, makes it quite sleepy actually after 378 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 2: you you. 379 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 3: Know, there's something about the meat and the past. Anyway, 380 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 3: thank you, you're my comfort. Thank you for coming. 381 00:20:58,520 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 4: You're mine. Thank you so much. 382 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much for having. 383 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 3: Me well as spahetti balladays I love it. And yeah, 384 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 3: comfort food Okay, thank you. 385 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 4: Dan, Yeah, thank you. 386 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 3: To visit the online shop of the River Cafe, go 387 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 3: to shop Therivercafe dot co dot uk. 388 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,439 Speaker 1: River Cafe Table four is a production of iHeartRadio and 389 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: Adami Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 390 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.