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Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 1: This is that show where we look back on our

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Speaker 1: old episodes from twenty eighteen with new insights, case updates,

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Speaker 1: and pop culture references.

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Speaker 2: Today we're rewinding to episode one oh eight, which we

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Speaker 2: named King of Police.

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Speaker 1: This episode originally came out February fifteenth, twenty eighteen, so.

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Speaker 3: Let's listen to the intro of episode one oh eight.

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Speaker 1: Hello, Hi, and welcome to my favorite im mirror deior

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Speaker 1: podcast that tells you it's just things, fucking tons of random,

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Speaker 1: terrible things.

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Speaker 3: Right without curse words. That's right. This is a This

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Speaker 3: is an all.

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Speaker 1: Christian podcast, child friendly, a child friendly, religious based.

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Speaker 2: We've got fucking railroad or what are they called trains

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Speaker 2: going by in the background.

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Speaker 1: Coast trains. We don't believe in evolution. Everything you could

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Speaker 1: want in a podcast. Wow, that train's loud.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Do you know. I got into an uber the other

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Speaker 2: day and like there was this rock music playing and

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Speaker 2: I was like, okay, rock music great, and.

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Speaker 3: Then it was like the lyrics were like.

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Speaker 2: Oh fuck, you're trying to sell me hard on Jesus

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Speaker 2: age Christ and you.

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Speaker 1: Were like, haa nogila I've had that a couple of

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Speaker 1: times in ubers, where I feel like people are like

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Speaker 1: they're trying to work, they're trying to make a dollar,

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Speaker 1: but they're also like, well, I could kill tubers with

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Speaker 1: one stone and be spreading the word of our Lord.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if there's like a cult of you know,

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Speaker 2: Jesus people who are like, this is how we're going

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Speaker 2: to get people on as We're going to uh yeah

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Speaker 2: uber and play.

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Speaker 3: Pretty good rock? Me is it pretty good? Passable? It's

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Speaker 3: so funny.

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Speaker 1: I did Dave Holmes Friday forty last Friday, christ Fairbanks

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Speaker 1: of do you need to ride?

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Speaker 3: And he said it's first I can't remember how it

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Speaker 3: came up.

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Speaker 1: But he goes, have you ever had that thing where

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Speaker 1: you you start to hear a song, you really like it,

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Speaker 1: and then you realize it's Christian.

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Speaker 3: Then you realize you're like a hypocrite for not liking

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Speaker 3: I know what happened.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't want to hear about how he lifts

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Speaker 2: you up and you raise your your kid.

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Speaker 3: Does in the air.

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Speaker 2: He lifts you like dirty dancing style like Pasture Swayze.

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Speaker 3: No one puts Jesus in a corner boom and the

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Speaker 3: podcast Boom good, lie out. Fuck all y'all? Hey, can

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Speaker 3: I do? Can I read this?

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Speaker 1: Because fine, I've been exposed as being obsessed with bowling.

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Speaker 3: Fine, I don't care anymore. Why are we bowled yet?

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Speaker 3: You know we've had at least two days.

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Speaker 1: So someone sent us a picture of the bowling socks

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Speaker 1: I was talking about last on the minnesot the minuisode.

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Speaker 3: Exactly as I described.

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Speaker 1: Three bowling pins, a red bowling ball and what looks

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Speaker 1: like puffs of air at the bottom. Do you think

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Speaker 1: that's the speed of the ball hitting those because.

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Speaker 3: It's like it's like the it's almost like a bombs

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Speaker 3: goes off.

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Speaker 1: Yes, on your ankles. Yeah, And there these ones It

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Speaker 1: says this is for a hard stark.

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Speaker 3: That's you, Georgia. Think o.

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Speaker 1: Because this is Instagram Stephen Ray Morris. My favorite murder

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Speaker 1: I believe I got the mission bowling Club is that

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Speaker 1: in San Francisco. It is Gray Wing. This is from

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Speaker 1: Gray Wing on Instagram San Francisco.

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Speaker 3: Ps. My grandmother is in the Bowling Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 3: What I'm so proud of your grandma? Who is she?

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Speaker 1: We've please send us some more instrumental Gray Wang g R. E.

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Speaker 3: Y W I G.

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Speaker 1: San Francisco, California. If you could please send us a

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Speaker 1: very con sis book report three to five paragraphs about

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Speaker 1: your grandmother.

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Speaker 2: With photographs from when she was playing bowling and as

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Speaker 2: an elderly woman.

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Speaker 3: What if it's both. Oh my god, she started young

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Speaker 3: and went all the way into her to modern day.

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Speaker 3: I want to know what she carried in her purse

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Speaker 3: on a regular basis.

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Speaker 1: Hall of fame though, that's She's not just a great bowler,

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Speaker 1: she is of the greatest bowlers. And you know San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's where that's where my people are from.

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Speaker 3: Yah.

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Speaker 2: That's why I'm so passionate about bowling. It's not like

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Speaker 2: they have a shortage of good bowler. So that means

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Speaker 2: she was really fucking good.

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Speaker 3: That's right, It's what everyone's like up there. It matters.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna go bowling soon. Oh, today's Valentine's Day.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Happy Valentine's Day, everybody, thank you well, yesterday

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Speaker 2: was Valentine's Day.

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Speaker 3: Based on the when this podcast is going.

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Speaker 1: Am based on the reality you people live in, right,

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Speaker 1: not the one that we truly are stocking.

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Speaker 3: We're currently drinking coffee and whiskey in that's right, We're

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Speaker 3: having such a Valentine's Day party.

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Speaker 1: Steven's drinking coffee out of a cat mug, which is

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Speaker 1: his lifelong dream. Right, I'm drinking a coffee out of

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Speaker 1: an FBI mug.

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Speaker 3: No sorry, La.

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Speaker 2: County Corner mug, which is my dream. Georgia's having some

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Speaker 2: nice whiskey on ice out of a vintage fucking tumbler mug,

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Speaker 2: tumbler glass.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks like something that would absolutely have been

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Speaker 1: left on my grandmother's nightstand, definitely. And then in the

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Speaker 1: background there is a train that has not There hasn't

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Speaker 1: been a train that's come by here in twenty five years.

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Speaker 3: Really in our lives.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to tell you that after a twenty year hiatus,

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Speaker 2: I am again reading stranger beside me.

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Speaker 3: Oh really yeah, what brought you back to us? Zach Effron, Well,

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Speaker 3: people want to hear people want us to talk about that.

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Speaker 3: We have talked about it, I.

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Speaker 2: Know, but they want to say, there's more photos now, okay,

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Speaker 2: and as now that I'm reading it and like in it,

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Speaker 2: I see the phone is and like, I know when

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Speaker 2: that was like supposed to have happened, and.

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Speaker 1: When when did Ted Bundy go through a weightlifting phase.

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Speaker 1: That's the question I have because the first photo, I

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Speaker 1: really think he's too cut. He's insanely cut for from

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Speaker 1: what I in my limited, as we all know, extremely

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Speaker 1: limited research, he Ted Bundy always seemed like kind of

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Speaker 1: a skinny, little professorial type.

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Speaker 3: I think it's like a skinny, but like, what is it?

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Speaker 3: You know, like a tennis.

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Speaker 2: Player sinewy sinewy, He's this is why you wanted Gary Sinisey.

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Speaker 3: Maybe we just happened to Is it snise or you're

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Speaker 3: just saying that because he is.

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Speaker 2: There's someone you said he wanted to play him before

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Speaker 2: this whole Efron was not Gary?

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Speaker 3: Who was it?

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Speaker 2: Yep?

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Speaker 1: Stephen, Come on, you can't put your hands up like

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Speaker 1: you don't work here, you son of a bitch, Steven Stephen,

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Speaker 1: you had one job.

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Speaker 3: Job memorize.

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Speaker 4: I say, it's not Garry City, No, it's it's Oh,

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Speaker 4: he's someone who lives like that Ted Bundy.

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Speaker 3: Who would you want to play? Let's let's go, let's

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Speaker 3: start over. Who do you think she played? Ted Bundy?

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Speaker 3: Not Zac Efron.

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Speaker 1: Let me stroke my minorly invisible beard.

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Speaker 3: Uh, it's forget it. Edit this out.

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Speaker 2: No, this is this is Steven's like you don't desire

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Speaker 2: It looks like Bill Pullman.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I remember this, and I remember when it hit me.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I am a fucking casting genius.

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Speaker 2: You were.

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Speaker 3: And he's in the movie. It's not Chris Pine, is he?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: Okay?

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Speaker 2: Is he in the movie with Jack Nicholson? When Jack

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Speaker 2: Nicholson is Greg. There are people who have been screaming

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Speaker 2: at their.

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Speaker 3: Machine. Gary and Greg so similar. You were right there

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Speaker 3: with that G.

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Speaker 2: I mean with the four letter word and the G

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Speaker 2: Greg kinnear Is that with dark hair?

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Speaker 3: Because his eyes are little.

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Speaker 1: He's good looking classically, but his eyes are just enough

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Speaker 1: close together that you are suspicious of his.

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Speaker 2: Agenda. Is this train circling the apartment? I think the

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Speaker 2: train is coming for us?

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Speaker 3: Can you hear it? Steven?

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Speaker 2: Okay, good, it's we're tight on the track right now.

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Speaker 3: We haven't been our rent.

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Speaker 2: Stephen is twirling his mustache as he watches us tied

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Speaker 2: to the track.

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Speaker 3: Oh good, Buster Keaton's here.

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Speaker 2: Oh great, you know I'm having now of course, I'm

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Speaker 2: having Ted Bundy nightmares.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: And because you're in that book and I keep saying

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Speaker 2: stop reading this Storgia. Stop reading this Storgia, and I

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Speaker 2: can't put it down. It's so good, it's so good,

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Speaker 2: and it's also so dated.

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Speaker 3: And Anne rule like she should never have died because

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Speaker 3: she just needs to keep updating this book.

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Speaker 2: It's the idea, like when she tells that story, the

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Speaker 2: idea that she was this single mother who was trying,

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Speaker 2: who was working for the police department, but it was

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Speaker 2: also trying to be a freelance writer.

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Speaker 3: And she's like, what are the fucking chances?

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Speaker 1: The chances, and she's but she's also volunteering at night,

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Speaker 1: like what a badass, and then she volunteers next to

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Speaker 1: pretty much wanted second.

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Speaker 3: Only to like Ed Gaen or Dahmer like the.

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Speaker 2: Most maybe Dahmer Gacy, but like, yeah, no, I think everyone.

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Speaker 2: I think Ted Bundy was relatable to everyone because he

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Speaker 2: was hot.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he was so tricky.

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Speaker 2: He was the ultimate like wolf in Sheep's clothes, totally,

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Speaker 2: he was He's she doesn't even.

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Speaker 3: Believe that he could have done it for sure, so

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Speaker 3: I believe it.

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Speaker 1: When it was like it's we've found a man in

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Speaker 1: a gold Volkswagen Bud, she called her.

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Speaker 3: Friends of the detective agency and was like, just look

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Speaker 3: into my friend. I know this is weird. Like she

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Speaker 3: even turned him in and she was like, I don't

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Speaker 3: it can't be it can't be him.

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Speaker 1: But could you look because she was like, I can't

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Speaker 1: deny stacking up facts, but still it's not him.

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Speaker 2: I know it's not him, and I'll yeah, Uh.

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Speaker 1: That's the classic sociopathic or psycho.

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Speaker 3: But we didn't know it at the well we I

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Speaker 3: wasn't boring.

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Speaker 2: Uh they you know, they didn't know it at the time,

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Speaker 2: that that was a thing that even though someone doesn't

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Speaker 2: look like a fucking murderer or act.

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Speaker 3: Like it, no one those people don't act like murderers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well now we know what. Well, so the movie

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Speaker 2: is coming out with Zac Effron. I hope he kills it.

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Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to it.

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Speaker 3: I think he will.

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Speaker 2: I think he looks like him enough. And the other

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Speaker 2: thing that she keeps talking about is that, uh, he

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Speaker 2: was like a shape shifter, that he looked different all

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Speaker 2: the time, which is why it was so hard to

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Speaker 2: pin down. Is that he kind of always changed his look.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: In fact, you can if you look it up online,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure everyone that's most of the people listening

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Speaker 1: have already seen this, but there is a collage of

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Speaker 1: his mugshots and you can see how the way they

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Speaker 1: couldn't like when he went from Seattle to Utah.

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Speaker 3: And it's not even like a beard or not a beard.

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Speaker 2: It's just this look in his face. It's so different

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Speaker 2: and that's the spookiest part.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then by the time he gets to Florida,

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Speaker 1: he's just a fucking maniac.

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Speaker 3: She Zafron. Man, what a fucking roll? Yeah, I can

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Speaker 3: do it? What a dream. Well, so there's this, there's

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Speaker 3: this doctor Jentry. Can I just say this? He can't.

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Speaker 3: I hope he knows.

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Speaker 1: And if they're still shooting and he can, hear me,

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Speaker 1: don't smile with your eyes, because that's it. You gotta

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Speaker 1: go dead zone totally with those crazy eyes. Totally because

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Speaker 1: zach Efron's a big like he's like. One of the

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Speaker 1: reasons he's like a Disney star is because he's one

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Speaker 1: of those twelve year old boys that would wink at

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Speaker 1: a grown woman. It's a specific he's a he's a Ryan.

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Speaker 3: Let's do this again. Oh my god, he's a Ryan.

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Speaker 3: Let's do it some more. One everyone loves I don't

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Speaker 3: like him. Stephen Seacrest.

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Speaker 1: No, are you fucking kidding me, Stevid.

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Speaker 2: He's the one, you know, the blonde one who was

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Speaker 2: in Drive Drive right, Yes, he's a gosling. You were

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Speaker 2: almost fired. Oh he's a gosling Seacrest. God damn it.

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Speaker 2: Stephen out.

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Speaker 3: Of a job.

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Speaker 2: That's how you fire Stephen if that's how Ryan Seacrest

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Speaker 2: fires people. Joanne out of accounting, Oh, Joanne, Joanne, she

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Speaker 2: did her best.

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Speaker 3: She tried.

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Speaker 2: But someone knows Something. Season four started h loving it.

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Speaker 2: David Riggan.

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Speaker 3: I love something, someone knows something. He's so good. This

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Speaker 3: new one is about I love something something something. This

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Speaker 3: new one is.

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Speaker 2: About this dude who gets sent this bomb explodes in

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Speaker 2: his fucking hands. Dies still hasn't been solved. It was

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Speaker 2: like nineteen ninety six. What goes back to fucking figure

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Speaker 2: out what happened. It's super good, all right, And I'm

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Speaker 2: really angry because they didn't drop all the episodes at once.

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Speaker 2: Oh you to wait, which is so.

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Speaker 3: Smart, but there's nothing more than having to wait. But

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Speaker 3: I hate it. That's great. Yeah, it's good. Does he

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Speaker 3: does he crunch down any country lanes?

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Speaker 2: He fucking does his signature crunching to the towards the

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Speaker 2: door from his car.

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Speaker 3: Beautiful he does. It's his thing, it's his signature.

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Speaker 1: I see him in my mind as I listen to

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Speaker 1: him do that, and it's such a delightful and yet

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Speaker 1: also incredibly upsetting movie.

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Speaker 3: Only he can get away with that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's such a documentary filmmaker thing to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's so exciting that that there's

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Speaker 1: another season.

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Speaker 3: Okay, that's all I have to say. And we are.

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Speaker 1: Back so much Jesus, so much Christian talk.

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Speaker 3: We love it, we really do. When was the last

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Speaker 3: time you went bowling?

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Speaker 1: Oh recently? It's a thing I do when I go

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Speaker 1: home a lot.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I love bowling.

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Speaker 2: I do too until I get like halfway through, and

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Speaker 2: then I'm like, this is because I'm not good at it.

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Speaker 2: So like once you know, you're not gonna get over

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Speaker 2: a hundred ever, Yeah right, you know.

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Speaker 3: But those shoes are so cute.

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Speaker 1: I think it's like just a repetitive action of something

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Speaker 1: to do that keeps you from like standing around making

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Speaker 1: awkward small talk.

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Speaker 3: I always kind of love that.

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Speaker 1: That's a good point and it usually turns into something else,

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Speaker 1: Like in my you know in that town where it's like,

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Speaker 1: now we're going to go to the Buckhorn.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes total sense.

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Speaker 2: I'll always go bowling if someone asked me to go,

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Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, it's so fun.

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Speaker 3: I was just talking about that.

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Speaker 2: How I love I really want to do a weekly

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Speaker 2: thing that repeats every week, no matter what where.

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Speaker 1: It's like a thing you can always do that. People

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Speaker 1: will always be there where, whether it's like majong or bowling,

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Speaker 1: or just like a dinner or something where you're just

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Speaker 1: kind of like it's just the the gathering itself is

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Speaker 1: kind of like the practice. Yeah, that's such an old

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Speaker 1: lady thing to say.

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Speaker 3: No, you've always liked that, the like game. I you know, yes, exactly,

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Speaker 3: nothing right, I never do a shit like that.

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Speaker 1: I know a book club.

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Speaker 3: I'm always threatening to fucking start a book club, but.

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Speaker 1: The book club is like homework club, Like you can't

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Speaker 1: tell me what to do, even though I agree to it.

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Speaker 1: And maybe it was my idea of the first place.

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Speaker 3: How dare you?

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Speaker 2: I've never I've never been to a book club in

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Speaker 2: my life. I've only seen them on the screen.

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Speaker 1: I think it's really funny. I've never been invited to

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Speaker 1: a book.

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Speaker 2: I don't think they exist. I don't think they exist

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Speaker 2: in real life. I think people are fucking lying now us.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they exist. For girls like you and me,

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Speaker 1: I think that's what it is. They're just like, oh

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Speaker 1: maybe next time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're reading something way above your pay grade. A

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Speaker 2: lot of people who will do the reading, not buy

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Speaker 2: about the book in the group, not get drunk first,

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Speaker 2: not yell at people during the book, not.

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Speaker 3: Tell them they're wrong. No, that's a very good point.

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Speaker 1: I only say that because in the nineties we started

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Speaker 1: like a se a cold reading kind of scene class

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Speaker 1: and it was just a bunch of comics who didn't

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Speaker 1: want to be so bad at auditioning. But the majority

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Speaker 1: of us would just get super drunk during the class,

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Speaker 1: and then the people who started it got really bad.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, we were trying to work here.

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Speaker 3: We're like, we're having fun. It's our class now, bitch.

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Speaker 1: Oh just remember when everything with someone knows something.

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Speaker 3: I love someone knows something. It's so comforting.

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Speaker 2: And he's got eight seasons out now, Yeah, that's amazing.

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Speaker 3: He's Canadian, right, Yeah, yeah, it's CBC.

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Speaker 1: You can rely on the Canadians to come through.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it turns out they have a lot of true crime.

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Speaker 2: You guys, we think they're all innocent and like, you know,

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Speaker 2: like light the preppy cousin of us.

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Speaker 3: But no, they've got some shit on their shoes, not

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Speaker 3: all maple syrup and pie. How are you? They don't

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Speaker 3: say that, don't they? All? Right, Well, so should we

355
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Speaker 3: get into your story? You're crazy? Oh, you're crazy? Story

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Speaker 3: that's so bad?

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Speaker 2: All right, let's listen to Karen's story about Matthew Hoffman

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Speaker 2: and the twenty ten tree murders.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so this was a story that I wanted to

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Speaker 1: do when we were in Columbus.

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Speaker 3: Okay, but it's too awful. Oh good, So I'm going

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Speaker 3: to go back.

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Speaker 1: I know that these days I've been doing lots of

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Speaker 1: slightly off kilter, lighter whatever types of stories. I've gone

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Speaker 1: all the way back to the ridge. This is a

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Speaker 1: fucking awful, awful and recent murder.

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Speaker 3: And you can't tell them why you can't do it

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00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:36,600
Speaker 3: at live shows?

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Speaker 1: Well, in live shows, well, first of all, we have

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Speaker 1: to have stuff that we can talk about and riff

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Speaker 1: about and like and connect over and kind of go like, wait,

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Speaker 1: what did you just say or whatever? And when it's

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Speaker 1: a especially if it's a recent murder, if children are involved,

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Speaker 1: if it's unsolved, if it's you know, just if it's

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Speaker 1: if it's just relentless horror, if it hits too close

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Speaker 1: to home, Yeah, you just don't want to it's horrible.

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00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

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00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,400
Speaker 1: And also I think everyone together, I mean, we've had

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00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,160
Speaker 1: times where we've talked about really hard stuff but then

380
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,120
Speaker 1: but it can't just be that way the whole time.

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Speaker 1: So but when I was looking this up, I was

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Speaker 1: on I was like, I think it might be worth it,

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Speaker 1: because there's an element to this that is so fascinating.

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Speaker 1: It's it kind of transcends the horror of what happened.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think we should do whatever we want when

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Speaker 2: it's you and I. Yeah, right, and they're Steven. But

387
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,360
Speaker 2: at live shows it's hard to do really horrifically.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, just like look, I mean there is an

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Speaker 1: interesting element to like grieving with two thousand people at

390
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Speaker 1: a time.

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Speaker 3: But not when they're mad at you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, it's just hard. But so I can just

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Speaker 1: tell you this and then tell me it can listen.

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00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,280
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna tell you no one else is listening. Steven,

395
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,479
Speaker 1: please put those headphones on more so, this is this

396
00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,199
Speaker 1: happened in Mount Vernon, Ohio. Last note November, holy like

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Speaker 1: as in four months ago, four months ago.

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Speaker 3: November December, January. Oh shit, four fucking months ago. Happy

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00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:09,959
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen. By the way, can we even say that

400
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:10,880
Speaker 3: it's Valentine's Day?

401
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,520
Speaker 1: Happy Valentine's Day and an upcoming President's Day. So on

402
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:20,120
Speaker 1: November tenth of last year, when Tina Herman didn't show

403
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,920
Speaker 1: up for work at Dairy Queen, her boss goes over

404
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,960
Speaker 1: to her house to check and see what's going on,

405
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,760
Speaker 1: and when he gets there, he finds it littered with

406
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 1: beer cans and covered in blood. It was actually described

407
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 1: as looking like a horror movie inside the house. Oh god,

408
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,520
Speaker 1: So of course he immediately calls the police. Tina's not

409
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Speaker 1: in the house, her thirteen year old daughter's not in

410
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,359
Speaker 1: the house, her eleven year old son's not in the house,

411
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,399
Speaker 1: and her friend, whose car is in the driveway is

412
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Speaker 1: not in the house. So immediately the police start a

413
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,399
Speaker 1: massive manhunt. There's people walking around on foot, it's in

414
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 1: the air like. The whole area goes crazy. The next night,

415
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,200
Speaker 1: Tina Herman's pickup truck is found near the Canyon College campus.

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00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,239
Speaker 1: They actually when they found the pickup truck, they did

417
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 1: a lockdown on the school because they thought maybe the

418
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 1: guy was nearby. The police interview people that are walking

419
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:21,159
Speaker 1: around the area. They don't find anything suspicious. Back at

420
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,919
Speaker 1: Tina Herman's house, the police that are processing the scene

421
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 1: find Walmart bags with a receipt. A Walmart bag with

422
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:33,880
Speaker 1: a receipt inside, and the receipt shows purchasing of garbage

423
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 1: bags and a large heavy duty tarp.

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Speaker 3: Never good.

425
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:38,400
Speaker 2: Not all.

426
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 1: The police are like, you know what, I remember this

427
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,199
Speaker 1: chapter in school, bad fucking news. So they go to

428
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,399
Speaker 1: that Walmart that's on the receipt. They check their surveillance

429
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,440
Speaker 1: video the time the receipt, and on it it clearly

430
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,960
Speaker 1: shows a very a young not very young, but a young,

431
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,880
Speaker 1: brown haired man probably in his early thirties, buying these

432
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 1: items at the store. And on the video they can

433
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,640
Speaker 1: also see when he leaves, they see him drive by

434
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 1: in his Yarus Yaris.

435
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 3: I was not expecting that. That's right.

436
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 1: There are a lot of people drive Yaruses proudly, and

437
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:14,680
Speaker 1: this guy was one of them.

438
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 3: So he it's all like right there on the table.

439
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 1: So the cops go to the DMV they search the records,

440
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 1: they cross check whatever yruses, they go to. All the

441
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,879
Speaker 1: Yarris owners check yards. They arrest all of them for

442
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 1: bad taste. I'm joking, Oh my god, onslaught of yards.

443
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 3: I know it's a good car, Daarrey.

444
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,479
Speaker 1: I bought this with my own money, although I had

445
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: to tell you my friend Tsha and I we bought.

446
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 1: I bought my Honda Fit at the same time she

447
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 1: bought her Yarus and she was trying to dide between

448
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,879
Speaker 1: the two, and I was always like, you gotta go

449
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 1: with this Honda Fit, and she was like, Nope, I

450
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna go with the RS. And I was

451
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 1: just like, I felt so like it was like smug

452
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 1: UCLA versus USC. It's just like goodbye, Yeah, you're not

453
00:21:58,240 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 1: We're not on the same team anymore.

454
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:06,120
Speaker 3: Wow. I haven't spoken to her since Holy Ship. That's

455
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 3: how deep this Yara shit goes with me.

456
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 1: Okay, So they find out through the DMV records and

457
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 1: his driver's license, this man is Matthew Hoffman. He's a

458
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,920
Speaker 1: thirty year old unemployed tree tremor. Then once they see

459
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 1: the pictures, one of the officers goes, I fucking talk

460
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 1: to that guy. Up at the college when we found

461
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 1: the truck, like one of the people, he questioned, Yep,

462
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: he was right nearby. So they're like, call everybody, we're

463
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 1: doing the right circle. The circle of wagons is what

464
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: most cops say when they think they.

465
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 3: Have a person. Gather the gather the wagons, circle the troops.

466
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: Gather our friends and let us go out together and

467
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: fight crime. Yes, so they fucking send the swat team

468
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 1: to this guy's house. And uh so this is this

469
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: basically takes four days. So four days after the family's

470
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: found missing, the cops kick his foot. I don't know

471
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 1: how it happened. It the cops kick down the fucking door.

472
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: Matthew Hoffman is sleeping on the couch inside in the

473
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: living room, and.

474
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 3: Are you ready? No, your face looks unhappy.

475
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:17,640
Speaker 1: Well, it's just it's not horrifying, But it's this. They

476
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: find The entire living room is filled with leaves. What

477
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 1: huge pile of leaves? Leaves, leaves piled so high that

478
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: the police feared bodies might be buried underneath them.

479
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 3: What the fuck?

480
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: So many fucking leaves. Mount Vernon police detective Craig Feeney

481
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: told the Columbus Dispatch, so much runs through your mind.

482
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: What if somebody's hiding under that pile, or in this case, I.

483
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,880
Speaker 3: Thought, what if that's where he's hiding the bodies?

484
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:52,640
Speaker 1: What the fuck leave leaves? They walk down the hall

485
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 1: to the bathroom.

486
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 3: No, don't do it. You want to pull up these

487
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 3: pictures I brought you. No, uh huh.

488
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: This is how I found the story. And it stopped

489
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,959
Speaker 1: me so cold. I was just like, what in the

490
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: fuck are we doing?

491
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Oh my god. So this is the bathroom. No, no,

492
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 3: I'm showing you the picture.

493
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: The walls of the bathroom are lined with plastic shopping

494
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: bags filled with leaves, and it looks insulated, like when it.

495
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: Looks like insulation, like before you put on the dry wall,

496
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 2: you put bags of saves, camar and thank you, thank you,

497
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 2: thank you, and of like perfectly filled bags of leaves,

498
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: perfectly spaced, perfectly hung, each one right up the same,

499
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 2: with the same depth of you know, it's not.

500
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: Like sloppy bags of leaves hung on the wall, the

501
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 1: piles of leaves hung the ground.

502
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 3: I never heard of this, because it just happened. I think, Oh,

503
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 3: and so that's you.

504
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's it's not even like it's just leaves, legitimate,

505
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 2: it's not dirt and it's not gravel.

506
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 3: It's just leaves.

507
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: And isn't that something that's absolutely from.

508
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 3: Like a David Finn. Yeah, because it's one.

509
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 2: Of those things where it's like it doesn't mean anything,

510
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 2: but it's so creepy.

511
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 3: Yes, as it is.

512
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: It just like the moths and signs of the lamp

513
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:10,959
Speaker 1: right where you're like, it's just moths.

514
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 3: It's just a deal. People collect insects, I guess.

515
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, a bit the touch. Yeah, but

516
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: when that moth lands next to her and when.

517
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 3: She's like, maw, here's your phone please.

518
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: I always have to get one of those in there. Okay,

519
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: so love it. Finally they go down into the basement.

520
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 1: The basement, there's a door closed and it's barricaded with

521
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: this big sewing machine cabinet thing. When they break down

522
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: the door they get inside, they find Tina, herman's thirteen

523
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: year old.

524
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 3: Daughter, alive.

525
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: She's bound and gagged and she's laying on a makeshift

526
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: bed of leaves.

527
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 3: Dude loves leaves.

528
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so fun and it's this dank, creepy basement.

529
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: Obviously she's been raped and she was wearing a plastic

530
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: bag with holes cut it for legs like a diaper.

531
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 2: So creepy. Oh my gosh, he's arrested to take an eddica.

532
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 3: How the fuck did I not see this? I don't know.

533
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 3: Twitter's algorithms are really disappointing me.

534
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: I mean, I was so like, this was one of

535
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: those ones where I was just like, I don't know.

536
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,959
Speaker 1: I think it's where I think this is the kind

537
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: of thing that people that are interested in your crime

538
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: when you hear a story where you're like, sorry, what

539
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: are we doing? Like what is this?

540
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: But like I was in Columbus with you, and I

541
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 2: was like looking up Columbus murders to do for the show,

542
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 2: and I didn't fucking.

543
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 1: See this, right, Okay, going, I mean I feel like

544
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: it was breaking news. Most of the articles that I

545
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: found to tell you about this were they were waiting

546
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 1: for like basically, once they found the girl, they still

547
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: didn't know where the family was and they still didn't

548
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 1: know They were like, we still have three people missing.

549
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 3: Thank god she's well and they and just so you.

550
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 1: Guys know, they they did print her name when they

551
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: first reported on the story. Then when they realized she

552
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: was a sexual assault victim. They stopped printing her name,

553
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: so that's why I'm not saying her name. So they're

554
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: questioning Matthew Hoffman. He's not saying anything. They said that

555
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: this reporter that was writing this, So these stories are

556
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: from the Columbus Dispatch and also from the Denver Post.

557
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 1: But they say there's hours of footage of police trying

558
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: to question him and him just not saying a word.

559
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 1: And then finally he tells the police that he wants

560
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: to confess because he has a bad dream about being

561
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: at a food processing plant. Oh no, so he tells

562
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: police he opened up in the dream, he opened up

563
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: a trash bag at the food processing plant, and he

564
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: saw cut up body parts and he got a nod

565
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: in his stomach, and it all quote unquote came back

566
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: to him. And so finally he confesses to the murder

567
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: of Tina Herman, her eleven year old son Cody, and

568
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: her friend Stephanie Sprang, whose car was in her driveway.

569
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: He tells police that he waited in the woods across

570
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: the street from Tina Herman's house the night before. He

571
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: was up in a tree leaves on a employed tree trimmer.

572
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: He's got a tree issue. He's up in a tree.

573
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: He watches the house all night. At nine in the morning,

574
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: he sees Tina herman leave the house, so he thinks

575
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 1: the house is empty and the garage door doesn't go

576
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: down all the way, so he sees his this is

577
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: his chance to slip in.

578
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 2: He goes into the house. He's he held police. Do

579
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 2: we know how is this going to come up? Like

580
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 2: how he knew who they were? He just it was

581
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 2: just a random.

582
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 1: Well, he had already been arrested once before for burglarizing

583
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: a house by slipping it into an open garage door. Okay,

584
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: So when he told police he actually had only gone

585
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: in to burglarize the house, they believed that it was

586
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: basically an interrupted burglary because he had done it once

587
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: before and only burgled the house. Okay, And there's other

588
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: actenuating circumstances in his life that are different on this one.

589
00:28:52,560 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: But basically, Tina and her friend Stephanie came back to

590
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: the house and interrupted him an hour after he broke in,

591
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: and so he stabbed them.

592
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 3: Both to death. Holy shit.

593
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: Yes, And then he's dismembering their bodies and the kids

594
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: come home from school, so he stabs the eleven year

595
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: old boy to death in the doorway. The thirteen year

596
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: old daughter runs to her room, He grabs her, he

597
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: ties her up with an electric fan cord, and he

598
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: puts her in his truck or in his can't. It's

599
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: really weird because he did this thing where he had

600
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: a jeep, but then he also used Tina's truck and

601
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: that's why he's the one that left it at the college.

602
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: And he had gone on foot back somewhere and he

603
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: was walking back to drive the truck back to her house,

604
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: and that's when the cops started talking to him.

605
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: So he had this whole plate cool, they didn't even

606
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 2: suspect him.

607
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, so something is fucking wrong with this dude.

608
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: That's the old psychopath. They don't get nervous. They don't

609
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: They can look somebody in the eye and be like, yeah,

610
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: I'm just here on the bike path chilling out.

611
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

612
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: So what had happened is he put these dismembered bodies

613
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: and the little girl. They don't think that the girl

614
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: saw the house, like maybe she was blindfolded or something,

615
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: because she didn't know anything about her.

616
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 3: No, she didn't know. She just knew she was kidnapped.

617
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: Baby so he dropped her off at his house, put

618
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: her in that basement, then left. He drove to the

619
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: Cocoasing I'm sure I'm saying it wrong, the Cocosing wildlife area,

620
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: which was apparently he was a big outdoorsman, and he

621
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: uh like, went there a lot and camped out a

622
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: lot and you know, liked trees a lot. He with

623
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: a rope and pulley system. He pulled their body parts

624
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: up and put them into a sixty foot hollow tree.

625
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 3: And hid them there. So holy shit, that like when

626
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 3: we've cross my mind.

627
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: Yes, no, no, no, no, it's like it's it's beyond

628
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: the perfect and most like obscure hiding place.

629
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 3: The police were like, if we didn't make the deal.

630
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: Because he said, I'll tell you where the bodies are

631
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 2: if you don't give me the death penalty, the police

632
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: were like, if we didn't do that, we would have.

633
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 3: Never found these. That was my mind, because I have this,

634
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 3: you know, this in mind of like what.

635
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: Like where are all the bodies Like there are over

636
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 2: the whole globe, there are bodies hidden in crazy forests

637
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 2: and weird places.

638
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 3: And yeah, that wouldn't even fucking cross my mind. Now

639
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 3: I have a whole nother fucking thing to worry about.

640
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: Well, and also because it's up so high that like

641
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: it's all this premeditation, it's this plan, it's this like

642
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: everything about it. And then it also makes me go like, oh,

643
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: who put Bella in the witch ell? Yeah, it's that weird,

644
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: Like the tree thing, it's real.

645
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 3: Oh God, now I have a whole nother thing to

646
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 3: worry about. Yeah, it's so crazy.

647
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: We're gonna lump it right into just the forest issue

648
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: that we always.

649
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 3: Do pilot under that. Yeah, it's just not going to

650
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 3: be buried this time.

651
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: Basically, he planned to then once he went and picked

652
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: that truck up, he was going to take it back

653
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: to her house, burn the house down, and like get

654
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: rid of all the evidence. That was his plan, and

655
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: then he told police that he also planned to. He

656
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: said he was really nice to the daughter and that

657
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: he planned.

658
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 3: To just keep her for a little while.

659
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,719
Speaker 1: He was going to they played video games, they read books,

660
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: they watched movies. He gave her hamburgers, blah blah blah,

661
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: and then he was just gonna let her eventually let

662
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: her run away. She'd be home by Christmas. This is

663
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: what he told the fucking police, like he had this

664
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: whole fantasy that he was actually really he was a

665
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: good guy and he.

666
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 3: Was want to do these things, but he was putting

667
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 3: this what.

668
00:32:54,080 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 1: A fucking dick well and also just mental illness gone

669
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: beyond rampit, like just untreated, terrible, you know whatever. So essentially,

670
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: so they have of course, these newspapers have interviewed the neighbors,

671
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: and this guy has so many neighbors it's amazing, and

672
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: they all have something to say. One of the neighbors said,

673
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: there's only two trees near this guy's house, so she's

674
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: neighbor Jeanette Columber said he can't have possibly got that

675
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: many leaves from that tree. So he asked, all leaves

676
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: in here from somewhere, Do we know what the deal

677
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: with the leaves are? I mean, he's just obsessed with them. Yes,

678
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: it's like there was a they did interview, and I

679
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: think this is from the Columbus Dispatch.

680
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 3: They interviewed a guy named doctor N. G.

681
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: Beryl, who is the director of the New York Center

682
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: for Neuropsychology and Forensic Behavioral Science. So that guy says,

683
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: you would have to talk to this guy to understand

684
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: what the connection is. But it's clear that this guy

685
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: is mentally ill beyond what we associate with normal serial

686
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: killers or murderers or psychopaths, because normally serial killers are

687
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: not technically mentally ill. They have these character disturbances, but

688
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: they know what's happening, and they know that they're doing wrong.

689
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: They like it, and that's part of the reason they're

690
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: doing They get pleasure and gratification from how the terrible

691
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: things they're doing and the torture that they are inflicting

692
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: on other people. He thinks that this guy had some

693
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: other thing happening and there was like obviously lots of

694
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: other issues at hand.

695
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 3: God, it's so fucking nuts.

696
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: So the neighbor, let's see, so Jeannette said, I don't

697
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: know those leaves could have filmed from because there's no

698
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: trees around here. Then a neighbor named Henderson Butcher says

699
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: that Matthew Hoffen was friendly but used to play around

700
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: the trees a lot around there a lot.

701
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 3: He'd throw ropes up in the trees and had like

702
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 3: a hammock up in there.

703
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: So in some part of the neighborhood that did have trees,

704
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 1: he would go.

705
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 3: In and be in them all the time.

706
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 2: Okay, fine, right, don fine, then fine, that's fine, just

707
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 2: go do that.

708
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 3: A lot of people like trees.

709
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:14,720
Speaker 1: Donna, Davis, daw Na my favorite spelling of Donna ever,

710
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 1: it's all the good seventies names combined into one name.

711
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: She was another next door neighbor, and she said that

712
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: she told her children to stay indoors when Matthew Hoffman.

713
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 3: Was outside, that's chill. Yeah.

714
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: And she said that he had moved in alone a

715
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: year before, and that his girlfriend had lived with them temporarily,

716
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: and then she moved out a month before the murders.

717
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: And she said this is what she said to the

718
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: Denver Post. He'd sit up and listen to us up

719
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,479
Speaker 1: in a tree. He had a hammock and he would

720
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: just sit there and listen to us. She was just different.

721
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: He was very different.

722
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

723
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,919
Speaker 1: She said that he walked to Foundation Park almost every

724
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: day and was a quote your person who collected leaves.

725
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,280
Speaker 3: So I guess Foundation Park.

726
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: Was the park nearby that the other neighbors talking about,

727
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 1: and he would just go up in there. Also, his

728
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: house was in foreclosure and it had been uh it

729
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: started in January, so he was I think at the

730
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: end of like a serious, probably psychotic break. He makes

731
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: that huge confession and oh he also killed the fucking

732
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: family dog.

733
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

734
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: So once he makes the confession and he said he

735
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: asked the investigator if I write down the location of

736
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: the bodies. He hadn't given a given away the location yet,

737
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: and he said, if I write these down, well, can

738
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,879
Speaker 1: I then make a fake attempt to escape.

739
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 3: And you shoot me?

740
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 4: Ah?

741
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: And the and the cop was like, no, We're not

742
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: going to do it that way. And so then he

743
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't talk. He wouldn't tell them where they the bodies

744
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: were two full days and then he finally he finally

745
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: told him that whole story that I just told you.

746
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: And the police, of course when they saw were just like, yeah,

747
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 1: we had to we had to make this deal with

748
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: him because we would have never known sure. So in

749
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 1: the end, Matthew Hoffmann pled guilty to ten felonies, including

750
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 1: aggravated murder and rape, and he was given a life

751
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: sentence without the possibility of parole, and the Knox County

752
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: Prosecutor John Thatcher said that this Knox County has never

753
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: seen a case like this before. It has to rank

754
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 1: in Ohio history as one of the worst homicide cases.

755
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 3: Ever my favorite murder history too. I mean, dude, so.

756
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 2: Like I thought those leaves would like have something about

757
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 2: like the he buried the bodies and had to put

758
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 2: the leave somewhere. Well, yeah, directly, it's just he's But

759
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: that psychiatrist that they talked to you said, you know,

760
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 2: obviously this is all it's he has some kind of

761
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: a delusion and some kind of an obsession, so in

762
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 2: his mind, somewhere in his mind, and he would be

763
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 2: the only person I'd be able to explain.

764
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 3: What that connection is.

765
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: But right now there's nobody that can say, oh, he

766
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: did trees because murdered because a tree isn't. But like

767
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: just coming upon a picture of a living room filled

768
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 1: with fucking leaves.

769
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 2: The bathroom is more troubling to me. Of just perfect

770
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 2: bags lined up and like whatever.

771
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 3: Stapled to the wall.

772
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: It's almost like inverted hoarders, like the same feeling I

773
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: had the first time I saw hoarders, but it's organized

774
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 1: and only leaves.

775
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and on the wall. And then you've got to

776
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 3: be like, what happened? What's going on me? Everything? Now?

777
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: Yes, Meanwhile, it's a grown man that climbs and plays

778
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: in trees.

779
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 2: So like what was able to buy a house and

780
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 2: have a girlfriend and like how I don't it's so

781
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 2: crazy and plan the bose love bodies in a really

782
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: smart way.

783
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: Yes, well yes, because once he was in it, it

784
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 1: was like that is the truth. Like that that psychologist

785
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: that gave it or psychiatrist whatever it was that gave

786
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: the difference. It's like, yes, he was mentally ill, clearly,

787
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: but he also knew what he did was wrong covered

788
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: it up, like, yes, he he had there was something

789
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: going on, but you can't keep it's the insanity defense

790
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: I don't think could apply, because he did he covered

791
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: up and hid those bodies and hit a girl, yeah,

792
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: and right to fucking girl, Like you know, this wasn't

793
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: some kind of like I went all over the place.

794
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 1: This isn't like Richard Chase that yeah, Sacramento Vampire where

795
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: you're like, what the fuck are you doing?

796
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 3: Dude? Yeah, god damn it.

797
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: Anyway, that's the Matthew Hoffman case of Mount Vernon.

798
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 2: Jesus, I don't know how I would erect it on

799
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 2: stage to this well, I mean it would have felt

800
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 2: like that, like we're just like ugh, oh man, well

801
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 2: mine isn't much happier okay, but it's but it's interesting.

802
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 3: Okay, good, all right, that's all.

803
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's all we need from you people. You're not

804
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 2: what what this is our job?

805
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 3: Okay?

806
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: Oh that's a dark one. We are back, Karen. Do

807
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 2: you have any updates?

808
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: Only that Matthew Hoffman is still serving his life sentence

809
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: at Toledo Correctional Institution and he remains ineligible for parole.

810
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 3: And that's it. Wow.

811
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:31,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, this is an episode where we both

812
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 2: just do terrible stories.

813
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 3: That's right, Let's go right into Georgia's.

814
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: It's the story about little Gregory.

815
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 2: All right, Well, this is one I hadn't ever heard of,

816
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 2: even though it's basically the like the French gen MAInet.

817
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 2: Oh have you heard of this one, Madeline McCann. No,

818
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 2: it's the French Madeline McCann. Oh, okay, French citizen.

819
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 3: That's English, right, it's the Madeline McCann Jean Benet in France,

820
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 3: got it front bread France dressing with a side of France.

821
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 2: This isle affair Depetite Gregory or the case of Little Gregory. Yeah, okay,

822
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 2: already awful. It's one of France's most high profile murders.

823
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 2: So in nineteen eighty one, in the small village of

824
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 2: near Vollon in eastern France, twenty six year old Jean

825
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 2: Marie Villeman is promoted to foreman at the.

826
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 3: Car parts factory where he works.

827
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: So after his promotion, he, Jean Marie and his wife Christine,

828
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 2: who's twenty four, like so young, right, start receiving threatening

829
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 2: anonymous phone calls from a person who knows a shit

830
00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 2: hunt about their family, and he calls himself the raven.

831
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah, what yeah, So this person is calling

832
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 2: threatening he has this person's a hoarse voice, or it's

833
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 2: a woman disguising her voice. I listened to one of

834
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 2: the recordings from way back when, and it sounds like

835
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 2: a fucking woman to me for sure.

836
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 3: Was it super creepy?

837
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not even creepy. They're having a conversation. Oh no,

838
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 2: all right, So the person is angry with Jean Marie.

839
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 2: Once Jean Marie had been promoted. They think he's putting

840
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 2: on airs, he's got a lot of money, he's not

841
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 2: joining the union. And so a lot of the articles

842
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 2: about this, and like every video is in French. Sure,

843
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 2: so it's really hard to get information. I had to

844
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 2: do a lot of Google translation bullshit, so some of

845
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 2: it might be off, like the raven thing it's called

846
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 2: the crow and a lot of different like translations.

847
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 3: Which is a totally different horrible death. Yeah.

848
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, so always ask me for French stuff because I

849
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: took I took all the way up through French too.

850
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 3: So Belogne, Belange is blange, it's vlanges. Right, there's some

851
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 3: fucked up things here, Okay, Okay, So they're pissed off

852
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 3: at Jean Marie the Villamins. They alert the police and

853
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 3: they begin recording the phone calls, and so at that

854
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 3: point the phone calls stop and instead threatening letters start coming.

855
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 3: Do you think the raven knew the phone calls were

856
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 3: being recorded?

857
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, because it sounds like someone who was close

858
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:36,280
Speaker 2: to the family. Oh so maybe even new like a mole. Yeah,

859
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 2: that's totally am So these threatening letters start coming in.

860
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: They are these rambling letters written in quote, long handed,

861
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 2: low class slang.

862
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 3: Oh.

863
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 2: The letters are signed the Raven and say such things

864
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 2: as I'll have all your hides and I hate you.

865
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 3: So much the day you die, I will spit on

866
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 3: your grave.

867
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 2: And it's sent to the whole family, like you know,

868
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 2: the grandparents and all these things. God, So a window

869
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 2: of the house is broken in the villman house while

870
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 2: Christine is at home alone with the couple's young son

871
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 2: named Gregory. And also all the tires are slashed on

872
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 2: the family cars, so someone is threatening them, and it's

873
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 2: a small town and the person knows a lot about them.

874
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 2: The harassment goes on for three years without the villains

875
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 2: or the police having any idea who was behind it.

876
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 2: And then on October sixteenth, nineteen eighty four, at around

877
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 2: five thirty pm, Christine, who's inside doing some ironing, goes

878
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 2: out to bring Gregory in. He's four years old at

879
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 2: this point and she had left him outside to play

880
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 2: in the sand beside their house and he's not there.

881
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 3: Oh god, no, get's worse.

882
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 2: She gets in her car to drive around the small

883
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 2: town looking for him, thinking maybe he just wandered off.

884
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 2: But at that point, Jean Marie's brother receives a call

885
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 2: at work from an unidentified person telling him I have

886
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 2: taken the boy. Oh so a search begins, but by

887
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 2: nine to three that same night, Gregory is found in

888
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 2: the Vallon River, four miles from his home. Oh god, yeah,

889
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 2: so this is like I think there's so many similarities

890
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 2: to Jambonet case in this so little Gregory, he's this

891
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: sweet boy. There's this photo of him in the same

892
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: way that the photo of Jean Benet looking all smiley

893
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 2: and beautiful is known to us for ages. This photo

894
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 2: of Gregory is the same thing. He's sweet, smiling boy

895
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 2: with messy curly hair, little four year old. He's found

896
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 2: bound hand and foot. He's fully dressed. There's a photo

897
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 2: taken at the scene by a journalist. It's a roped

898
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 2: firefighter holding in his arms and like taking Gregory out

899
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 2: of the river. He's fully dressed in his blue anorak,

900
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 2: dark green velvet trousers and his like beanie still.

901
00:45:59,239 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 3: On his head.

902
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 2: Oh and it's published in the press the next day

903
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 2: and it traumatizes all of friends and everyone becomes obsessed

904
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 2: with this case.

905
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, uh he's dead? Did I say that? Yeah? Yeah,

906
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 3: you figure? Okay.

907
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 2: The next day, Christine and Jean Marie receive an anonymous

908
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 2: letter that says to Jean Marie, addressed to him, I

909
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 2: hope you die of grief.

910
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 3: Boss. Your money can't give you back your son. Here

911
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 3: is my revenge, you stupid bastard. Holy fuck in the

912
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 3: same way that the Gaenbrenet fucking letter was. It's so similar, right,

913
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 3: Oh remember, yes, but that was a ransom, a fake

914
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,959
Speaker 3: ransom letter. Right, but it was like your money can't

915
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 3: help you.

916
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh that's true. You know that's right, Like I'm

917
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 2: jealous of your riches.

918
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,919
Speaker 3: Okay, so the investigation doesn't fucking start. Well.

919
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 2: The lead investigator put on the case. He's the only

920
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,879
Speaker 2: investigating magistrate in the district. He's thirty two year old

921
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: Jean Michel Lambert's. This is a very first investigation. No,

922
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 2: thirty two, can you I wouldn't trust a thirty two

923
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 2: year old to watch my fucking purse for five minutes.

924
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 3: Dude, Sorry, Steven, how do you thirty?

925
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: Wait a second, my wallet's gone state it. Uh no,

926
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,720
Speaker 1: that's too young, too young. You need experienced people. Yeah,

927
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: it's a big fucking different. You need people when it's

928
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: an important thing.

929
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 3: People have to know what they're doing.

930
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: They have to have experience. They can't be in a

931
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 1: state of I need to prove myself.

932
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 3: That's exactly right.

933
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 2: That's it's less like I don't know what I'm doing.

934
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 2: Then I don't know what I'm doing, and I need

935
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 2: to act like I know what I'm doing, Yes, so

936
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to fucking overdo it.

937
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 3: I can't listen. That's exactly what happens. You can't help me.

938
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah.

939
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 2: Well, it's the same thing with the Jen Benet when

940
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 2: they sent the young inexperienced cops on Christmas fucking Day,

941
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 2: aram so thirty two year old Jean Michelle Lambert first investigation.

942
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 2: First of all, he fails to secure the crime scene,

943
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 2: and he also doesn't or a full autopsy. So the

944
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 2: autopsy has been criticized forever because it was incomplete and sloppy,

945
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 2: so they don't know. There's no bruises on the body.

946
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 2: Pathologists attribute the death to drowning and contact with the

947
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 2: cold water. They're not totally sure. They disagree whether he

948
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 2: had been drowned in the river or in tap water

949
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 2: because the lung the water and his lungs contain none

950
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 2: of the microscopic organisms that one would find in the river.

951
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 2: Oh that's so awful, I know, but they didn't do it.

952
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 2: But Lambert was like kind of trying to spare the

953
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 2: parents by not making them over autopsy.

954
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 3: Poor Gregory.

955
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: It doesn't work away, No, unfortunately, I mean, ultimately, yeah, So.

956
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,800
Speaker 2: From the beginning, suspicion falls on the family of Jean Marie.

957
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 2: The father, his parents, brothers, aunts and uncles and cousins

958
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 2: all lived nearby. And when jean Marie is promoted to

959
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:56,479
Speaker 2: foreman way back when, some of the family members had been.

960
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 3: Unhappy about it.

961
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 2: So they think that the person who was writing the

962
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 2: letters the raven and the killer might be part of

963
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 2: his family out of jealousy. Yeah, basically, and he has

964
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 2: a big family that all lives in this area. So

965
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 2: police force hundreds of one hundred and forty members of

966
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 2: the Villaman family to take handwriting and dictation tests to

967
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 2: compare them to the letters and phone calls that have

968
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 2: been going on.

969
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 3: Wow, one hundred and forty. Wow.

970
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 2: They copied pages of the writing, including the text of

971
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 2: the last message from the raven, and after a month

972
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 2: after Gregory's murder, the fifteen year old sister in law

973
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 2: of jean Marie's cousin. So Jean Marie the dad of Gregory,

974
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:44,720
Speaker 2: his cousin whose name is Bernard Laroche, his cousin's sister

975
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 2: in law who's fifteen years old, So she's just like nerdy,

976
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 2: redheaded fifteen year old totally early eighties, like not much.

977
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 2: Maybe a durand aand shirt on, but like no makeup.

978
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 2: She's not like yeah crock or whatever.

979
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 1: Jacket, yeah, a comb holding one side of her hair, yeah, but.

980
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 3: Like really nerdy comb.

981
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, a math cone you know, yeah, yeah it's a ruler.

982
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 3: Uh huh. So she's fifteen year old.

983
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 2: Fifteen years old, she comes forward and tells investigators that

984
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 2: the cousin, her brother in law who's married to her sister,

985
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 2: twenty nine year old Bernard Laroche, is the murderer.

986
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:22,399
Speaker 3: Oh fuck.

987
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 2: She tells them that the day Gregory was killed, she

988
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 2: had been picked up by Bernard from high school and

989
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 2: taken to the villaman's house. They picked up Gregory and

990
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 2: headed for the river, and then they parked, and Bernard

991
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 2: went off with him and came back alone. So she's

992
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: fucking pinning it on her sister's husband.

993
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 3: Okay.

994
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 2: Is this like smiley, big boisterous looking, mustachioed, messy eighties

995
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 2: hair dude? Okay, played by like a young what's Roseanne's

996
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 2: husband on?

997
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 3: Roseanne? John Goodman? Like a young John Goodman?

998
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:03,280
Speaker 1: I was thinking Vincentinofrio. No, okay, more jovial looking, Okay,

999
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: got it?

1000
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, good a good time guy, totally got it.

1001
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 3: But like, why are you smiling inappropriately in this photograph?

1002
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 2: Oh?

1003
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

1004
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a photograph of the three of the cousin,

1005
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 2: his wife and his wife's and the young Muriel her

1006
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 2: name is Muriel Boyle. There's a photograph of the three

1007
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 2: of them, and I just want to know if it's

1008
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 2: taken before or after the murder, because it's inappropriately smiling

1009
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 2: and creepy.

1010
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 3: Okay, you know what I mean? Yes, like there's something

1011
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 3: about it.

1012
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 2: French people are screaming, they're what they think about really happened,

1013
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 2: and I want to.

1014
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 3: Know they're like Julie was supposed to smile, legs.

1015
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,720
Speaker 2: His way, right, so why are you smiling?

1016
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 3: Okay? I knew.

1017
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: I used to work with an over smiler who actually

1018
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: I'm positive was ass.

1019
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 2: Because they don't know when it's appropriate, so they just

1020
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 2: do it the whole time, right.

1021
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 1: And they it's this thing of it's almost like that

1022
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: weird hypnosis kind of thing where it's just like, yes,

1023
00:51:55,840 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: everything's fine, Like they're trying to control you with their mouth, right,

1024
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:01,439
Speaker 1: with their teeth.

1025
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 2: They learn that people, they learn that people mimic things,

1026
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 2: so they just fucking do it.

1027
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1028
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 1: Like here this is friends friends friend see yeah, see,

1029
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 1: which is like someone always trying to show you that

1030
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: they're happy and smiling. Right, they're covering something.

1031
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 3: And you know inherently, but you're like, but they seem

1032
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 3: so happy.

1033
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to mimic what they're doing because they're

1034
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 1: setting this state. This, they're setting the tone.

1035
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:26,280
Speaker 3: Of the room, which is we love everything.

1036
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 2: And then when you get older and stop giving a

1037
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 2: shit about anything, you realize, like, you don't have to

1038
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 2: do that, like when I stop, when I stop being

1039
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 2: that way, which I am inherently like a person who

1040
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,919
Speaker 2: will mimic a person's happiness because I'm just uncomfortable that way. Yeah,

1041
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 2: and I don't do it. Then I'm like, oh, this

1042
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 2: isn't right. Yeah, I don't want to be here.

1043
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 1: It's well because it's like, what is why is this

1044
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: person trying to control me this hard?

1045
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 2: Like?

1046
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 3: What is what do they not want me to be

1047
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 3: paying attention to? Right? I mean this is that.

1048
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 2: Photograph in a nutshell from the eighties Okay with a

1049
00:52:58,040 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 2: mustache Stephen?

1050
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 3: M Wait are you French? Stephen?

1051
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 2: Okay, So she says that blah blah blah, and then okay,

1052
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 2: so Bernard the Sky, Bernard the cousin, and jean Marie

1053
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 2: had played together as children, so they're from the same clan.

1054
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 2: It's like a clan more than a family. It's almost

1055
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,720
Speaker 2: like Fargo that second season when they're like the big

1056
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 2: crime fighter criming family, big crime family.

1057
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 3: They didn't fight crime, big crimed.

1058
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 2: But they had grown apart over the years, and Bernard

1059
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 2: was an unkempt, often profane man with a mustache, and

1060
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 2: he and his wife they also had a four year

1061
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 2: old child, but he was had a learning disability. Okay,

1062
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 2: so they both had four year old children. But Gregory

1063
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 2: was this beautiful, smiling, happy baby that everyone loved, and

1064
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 2: jean Marie had been promoted, he was getting all this money,

1065
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 2: his dad was in charge of the plant. Well, meanwhile,

1066
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 2: Bernard seemed to have a shitty fucking life, so they

1067
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 2: didn't socialize anymore with jean Marie and Christine. But so

1068
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,879
Speaker 2: he wouldn't have known about the family a lot enough

1069
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,240
Speaker 2: to write these raven letters. But one of jean Marie's

1070
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 2: brothers was good friends with Laurussia. He would have known

1071
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 2: he didn't like the villaman's.

1072
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.

1073
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 2: Okay, sot so this chick mural is like, my fucking

1074
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 2: brother in law did it?

1075
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 3: I'm fifteen. What's up?

1076
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 2: At the spot where Muriel said they had stopped, the

1077
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 2: investigators find a it's a vial of insulin and a

1078
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 2: syringe they find on the ground. They make the investigators

1079
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 2: think that Gregory had been put into a hypoglycemic coma

1080
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 2: before being.

1081
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 3: Thrown into the river.

1082
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:55,280
Speaker 2: Okay, so that made him unable to so he unable

1083
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 2: to do anything right, and he was also tied up. Yeah,

1084
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 2: but but there had been no toxicology report because the

1085
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 2: autopsy wasn't done correctly, so they didn't know. They didn't

1086
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 2: look for needle marks or anything like that. And so

1087
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,479
Speaker 2: Muriel says she wasn't aware of what her uncle was doing.

1088
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 2: She had just been sitting in the car. But it

1089
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 2: turns out that Muriel's mother, Janine, was a diabetic and

1090
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 2: that Muriel was her insulin injector. Oh, so she might

1091
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 2: have been more involved than she said she was, because

1092
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 2: she would know how to do it right, or she.

1093
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 3: Would even have provided them with it.

1094
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: But then why would she fucking go to the cops

1095
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: and say he did it, Like, if she's involved.

1096
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 3: That's a great question. So why would she do it? No, true,

1097
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 3: why would she do it? Anyways, there's a lot of

1098
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 3: questions here. Well, yeah, I mean that's the first and

1099
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 3: she's fifteena.

1100
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 2: Feels as an adult and knows there's right and wrong

1101
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 2: and your fucking bullshit fights with families don't matter.

1102
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's such a huge it's such a stretch

1103
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 1: from I hate my rich cousin who gets everything, to

1104
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:57,720
Speaker 1: I'm going to kill.

1105
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 2: A child, Like not even kill your cousin, but to

1106
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 2: take away the child is such a I want you.

1107
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 3: To suffer specifically, Yes, the most crazy. It's so awful, right.

1108
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 2: So, um, they test Bernard's handwriting, and experts say he

1109
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 2: had written two of the poison pen letters, including the

1110
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 2: one sent the day after the murder. So they say,

1111
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 2: it's it's Bernard. It matches, it matches him.

1112
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 1: And this is in the time where they knew nothing

1113
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,439
Speaker 1: about handwriting analysis, Like that's back in these zodiac times

1114
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:29,839
Speaker 1: where they're like, no, it's not him.

1115
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 2: It's almost like it's in a time when they thought

1116
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 2: they knew everything about handwriting analysis, and now we know

1117
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 2: that they know nothing about hand running, you know what

1118
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 2: I mean. It's like the opposite where they're like, you

1119
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 2: can tell everything from that, and yeah, they're like no, no, no, no,

1120
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 2: you can't do that.

1121
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 3: Right, you're making all kinds of insane assumption exactly, and

1122
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:45,839
Speaker 3: you sound really fucking smart. Yeah. Right.

1123
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 2: So Bernard is arrested and then Muriel gets the fifteen

1124
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,720
Speaker 2: year old gets sent back to her family's house and

1125
00:56:56,239 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 2: a couple days later retracts her entire statement. What everyone

1126
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 2: is like, Muriel like was bullied by her family into

1127
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:05,720
Speaker 2: retracting that statement.

1128
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 3: Oh everyone thinks that, Okay, how dare you turn on

1129
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 3: the family? How dare you on the brother in law? This?

1130
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 2: You know, there's like insane like family like going back

1131
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 2: probably hundreds of years within this small community with this

1132
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 2: family or these families.

1133
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 3: Uh.

1134
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 2: And against the prosecutor's advice, Lambert the police investigating thirty

1135
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 2: one year old dude. So the police investigator, even though

1136
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 2: the public prosecutors like, don't fucking do this, they let

1137
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 2: Bernard go because she retracts her statement, and they're like, well,

1138
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 2: then let's let her go.

1139
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 3: But then that's it.

1140
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 2: Wow, there's because then there's no evidence that he's involved well,

1141
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 2: they were saying, there's other evidence, right, so why wasn't

1142
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 2: he held?

1143
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, okay.

1144
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 2: On the day of his release, Jean Marie, Gregory's dad,

1145
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 2: in front of a bunch of journalists, vows that he

1146
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 2: would kill his cousin Bernard. Of course he did, right.

1147
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 2: He vows to kill Bernard. Two journalists, two journalists.

1148
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 3: Oh.

1149
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 2: The Laroche family tries to get police protection, but the

1150
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 2: police are like nope, oh no, nope, you can't have it.

1151
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:25,479
Speaker 2: H and so true to his fucking words. On March

1152
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 2: twenty ninth, Jean Marie waits outside his cousin's house and

1153
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 2: when he gets home, pulls up. He fucking approaches his cousin,

1154
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 2: Bernard and shoots him with a hunting rifle. Oh fuck,

1155
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 2: Bernard dies. Oh my god, my cousin dies.

1156
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 3: Goodbye, John Goodman, he's out of the picture. Jean Goodman,

1157
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 3: Jean Goodman, Jean Gouband is dead.

1158
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 2: It's like it fucking John Ramsey had shot you know

1159
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 2: his bo It's just insane.

1160
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 3: Yes, these steps people are taking.

1161
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 1: Also, it seems like reverse police work where it's like

1162
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: let them go, don't investigate, like don't get details going.

1163
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, like everything is it feels like.

1164
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 2: Arrest someone now quickly and let them go and then

1165
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 2: try this and it's just like panaamping everyone up.

1166
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 1: Yes, and especially small town like anywhere in the world

1167
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 1: like Boulder. Yeah, you know, exactly small town life where

1168
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 1: everyone knows everyone's business and there's gossip and they're pressure exactly.

1169
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 2: So, uh, Bernard dies, Jean Marie immediately turns himself in

1170
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 2: and he sentenced to five years for the killing.

1171
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 3: Whoa yeah.

1172
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Lambert, the police dude, is like, I know who

1173
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 2: fucking did this. I'll tell you who fucking did this,

1174
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 2: and he starts to build a case against Gregory's mother, Christine,

1175
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 2: whoa uh, for the murder of her son. At this point,

1176
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 2: she's six months pregnant too. Let's add that in for fun,

1177
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 2: because this is a fun Lifetime movie.

1178
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's saying that the mother killed her son.

1179
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 3: Uh huh.

1180
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 2: Okay, this thirty three year old fucking press or investigator.

1181
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 3: He's been thirty one, thirty two, thirty three, They're all

1182
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 3: the same. Everyone knows well.

1183
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 2: Time is passing actually right, Okay, So three locals who

1184
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 2: worked with Christine swore that they saw her at the

1185
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 2: post office on the date before Gregory's death when the

1186
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 2: revenge letter had been posted, which is like, I don't

1187
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 2: think it was true.

1188
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 3: But also, who gives a fucking shit, you know, like

1189
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 3: they're saying they saw her mail the revenge letter.

1190
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 2: They're saying they saw her the day the mail the

1191
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 2: revenge letter was mailed at the post office.

1192
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 3: Okay, all right.

1193
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 2: Graphologists argued that there was an eighty percent chance that

1194
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 2: she was the letter's author. So again with the fucking

1195
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 2: Jambinet ransom letter. And we're all like, right, but then

1196
01:00:56,080 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 2: they'd already said that he right the sign that they said, yeah, yeah,

1197
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 2: they already said that the cousin was right.

1198
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 3: If they're just changing it per thet ok go hmm.

1199
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 2: And string that was identical to what was used to

1200
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 2: tie up Gregory is found in the cellar of the

1201
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 2: villaman's home.

1202
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 3: Oh no, but it's like, I don't know who knows bag.

1203
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 1: I could have taken it there. That's the one string

1204
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 1: they sell in this village.

1205
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 2: Also, in the Raven's letters, he accuses Christine of killing Gregory.

1206
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 2: So they start to believe what the fucking raven is

1207
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:37,440
Speaker 2: saying because Gregory had been conceived.

1208
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 3: So they're saying Christine.

1209
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 2: Had been knocked up with Gregory in an extramarital affair,

1210
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 2: and that's why she killed her son, which ultimately wasn't true,

1211
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 2: proven to be untrue.

1212
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 3: That's fucked up, yeah.

1213
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 2: Because then they're just floating salacious shit that people love

1214
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 2: to repeat.

1215
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 3: And keep in mind this whole time, if you were

1216
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 3: alive during the Jambonet Ramsey investigation, it is the fucking

1217
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 3: media is going out of their bucking minds.

1218
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, front page glossy bullshit in every grocery store.

1219
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 2: I don't know what they have in France that's equivalent

1220
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 2: to that. It's going on. Everyone is eating it up,

1221
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 2: and all these crazy theories are being, you know, just

1222
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 2: thrown about.

1223
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1224
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 1: I think it's a They have one big magazine called

1225
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: Peris Match, and it just pictures of people smoking and

1226
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: then terrible.

1227
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 3: Stories like that. That's what it is. Yeah, it's there.

1228
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Christine is Christine ends up getting charged with the

1229
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 2: murder of her son.

1230
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: No fucking way, Oh, because it's this guy's idea. Yeah,

1231
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 1: and he's the Lambert say, the king of police.

1232
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 3: He's a French king of police. He is the king.

1233
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 3: So the king of police. Lambert charges Christine.

1234
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 2: With this murder of her son based on this evidence

1235
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 2: places her in a pre trialed attention in July of

1236
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five. In protest, she goes on a fucking

1237
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 2: eleven day hunger strike and is released and it isn't

1238
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 2: until sorry, that works, I guess she's pregnant. Oh no, Yeah,

1239
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 2: so she's released and it isn't intel. But they also,

1240
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 2: I think, didn't have any like anything to hold her on. Right,

1241
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 2: cut to nineteen ninety three. It is until nineteen ninety

1242
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 2: three when the case is taken over by another investigating judge,

1243
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 2: finally someone who's hopefully over fifty. Maurice Simon for real

1244
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 2: that she's cleared. So between nineteen eighty five and nineteen

1245
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 2: eighty three, people are speculating whether or not it's her,

1246
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:31,439
Speaker 2: oh constantly, and he and Maurice Simon is like, does

1247
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 2: some fucking, you know, judgey magic thing sprinkle something on

1248
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 2: her that's like she's never allowed to be fucking tried

1249
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 2: for this again? Like, oh good, makes it so she

1250
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 2: can never be brought up as a suspect again.

1251
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 3: Yeah's just pretty amazing. That's like, isn't that double jeopardy? No,

1252
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 3: because she had never been brought to trial. Oh oh,

1253
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,439
Speaker 3: but he was just saying, like this is now put

1254
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 3: to rest. Yeah, you can't break her up as a

1255
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 3: fucking suspect again.

1256
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 2: Sounds pretty decent. Yeah, the mother of the dead child, right, yeah,

1257
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,720
Speaker 2: Like photos of her man like at this time are heartbreaking.

1258
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 2: There's a lot of photos.

1259
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 3: Going on in it's so eighties and so sad. Okay.

1260
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:11,919
Speaker 2: And then in two thousand, the year two thousand, you've

1261
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 2: heard of it, the case is reopened when Christiane's family

1262
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 2: demands that DNA tests are carried out on the fucking

1263
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 2: stamps that are in.

1264
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 3: The fucking letters.

1265
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yes, unfortunately, and there's hundreds of these letters.

1266
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 2: Three separate traces of DNA are found, but none of

1267
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 2: them are identified.

1268
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 3: What for some reason none of these fucking.

1269
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 2: Okay, not much happens until this past June of twenty seventeen. Whoa, yeah, okay,

1270
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 2: so we're both fucking we're all about twenty seven.

1271
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:48,520
Speaker 3: Currenting this fucking episode. I love it.

1272
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 2: So in June, thirty two years after Gregory's murder, thirty

1273
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 2: two years, no one has been taken into custody for

1274
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 2: the murder since nineteen eighty five, when his mother was

1275
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 2: fucking taken into custody. No one has even been a suspect.

1276
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 2: Three people in connection with the case are taken into custody.

1277
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 3: Whoa, okay, you ready for this? Yes? So okay. The

1278
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 3: aunt and uncle of Jean Marie Gregory's father, Anne Bernard,

1279
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 3: the dead cousin, Jacqueline Jacob, she's seventy two, and her husband,

1280
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 3: Marcel is seventy one, are arrested. No fucking way, fucking

1281
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 3: old pupil. They were like in their forties at the time.

1282
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 2: Thirty yeah, eighties, nineties, third yeah, forties. So okay, it's

1283
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 2: so fucking confusing. So Marcel Jacob, the husband, the dude

1284
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 2: is one of the younger brothers of Okay, it's basically

1285
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:46,440
Speaker 2: jean Marie's dad married Marcel's sister.

1286
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 3: Okay, it's Gregory's great aunt and uncle, got it. Okay.

1287
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 2: They're charged with kidnapping and confinement, but not the murder,

1288
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 2: saying they were responsible for the murder Gregory since he

1289
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 2: would not have died unless he had first been kidnapped.

1290
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 2: So they think, fucking this chick, Jacqueline, who's now seventy two,

1291
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 2: was the fucking mastermind and this whole entire thing and

1292
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 2: made Bernard made was the letter writer and the woman

1293
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 2: it sounds like a woman.

1294
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 3: She's the raven. Yeah, she's the raven. But they're all

1295
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 3: involved in all hate this family and the day of

1296
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 3: Bernard actually did the murder, but she was like the

1297
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 3: distraction and the mastermind.

1298
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:33,640
Speaker 1: Whoa, this is like the second season of Fargo. Yeah,

1299
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 1: I mean totally, like it really is. Because also it's

1300
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 1: just that like what for what are you doing? Like

1301
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 1: what is this plan?

1302
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:48,040
Speaker 3: Totally and why the kid? Yeah, it's such a sick.

1303
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:51,120
Speaker 2: It's like to hurt as much as possible. Also questioned

1304
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 2: are Albert and Monique Villman, the parental grandparents of Gregory

1305
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 2: eighty six and eighty five years old. So Gregory's fucking

1306
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 2: grandparents on his father side, on John miy Shechell's side

1307
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 2: are questioned as well. Okay, like everyone hated John Marie

1308
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 2: and we're in on.

1309
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 3: This, even his own parents. I mean they're questioned. Wow.

1310
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 2: So the charges against the great Ann and uncle follow

1311
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 2: a modern handwriting and a modern thank God handwriting and

1312
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 2: linguistic analysis of some two thousand letters of the Raven

1313
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 2: letters and voice recordings that lead police to conclude that

1314
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 2: the authors.

1315
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 3: Are a man and a woman.

1316
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 2: Okay, more than one hundred witnesses are also interviewed. Some

1317
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:36,440
Speaker 2: twelve thousand pieces of evidence run through an advanced artificial

1318
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:40,959
Speaker 2: intelligence program called ana crime, which sounds fucking so cool

1319
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 2: that locates potential suspects at given moments and uncovers inconsistencies

1320
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 2: and statements and alibis.

1321
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 3: How I think it's basically like this.

1322
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:51,840
Speaker 2: Person says I was there, and this person said you're, like,

1323
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 2: it's and the pings are from here, and puts them

1324
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 2: all together and it's like whatever they're saying isn't true.

1325
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 3: There's no way they could have been there.

1326
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 1: Because it's basically based on like how we're digitally and

1327
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:03,320
Speaker 1: kind of in some way recorded at all times.

1328
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:04,720
Speaker 3: I don't even think that at that point.

1329
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:06,840
Speaker 2: I think it's just based on statements who said you

1330
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 2: were here, Who said you were there, You said you

1331
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 2: were here. Oh that makes sense because there's they're talking

1332
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 2: to so many people, but it's like them all together

1333
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 2: and they're like, this person wasn't where they said they

1334
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 2: were based on everyone's testimony.

1335
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 1: And the scary part, the scariest part about anti crime

1336
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 1: is that there are also those robots that can open

1337
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 1: doors now, did you see that video today? Yes, there's

1338
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 1: that bothered me so much. It bothered me all day long.

1339
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't watch more than him walking because

1340
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 2: it looked like a spider.

1341
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:37,360
Speaker 3: It looks like a spider.

1342
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: And then there was a part where it turns before

1343
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:41,719
Speaker 1: it opens the door with a creepy g long vacuum

1344
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 1: cleaner tube. No, and it does this like click click

1345
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:47,599
Speaker 1: where it moves really fast to one side and it's

1346
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:51,760
Speaker 1: so unnatural, like it looks very animal like. And then

1347
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:53,760
Speaker 1: it goes click click, and you're like, oh, what do

1348
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 1: we I don't even know what this is.

1349
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 3: It's like, we want the end days to come. Yeah,

1350
01:08:57,600 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 3: we're forcing it quick. Yeah, it's like we're begging it,

1351
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 3: creating the end days.

1352
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:04,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like some some really smart guy that loves

1353
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 1: robots and computers also watched The Terminator too many times

1354
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:10,160
Speaker 1: and he's like, we got to make this happen.

1355
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:12,640
Speaker 3: But he never saw the beginning of the Terminator, like

1356
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 3: the first scene in.

1357
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 1: The boardroom, right, He's like, this all looks great, and

1358
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:19,800
Speaker 1: he didn't watch the romantic parts because I argue that

1359
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 1: the Terminator, the first one is one of the most

1360
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 1: romantic movies of all time?

1361
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:25,800
Speaker 3: Pretty beautiful? Yeah, God, And he goes to see his

1362
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 3: wife and sees her gardening. Is that the right movie?

1363
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 3: I think yes?

1364
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 1: When he goes and he walks by before he knows,

1365
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:32,799
Speaker 1: like he's.

1366
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 3: Sees something and he's like that. Yeah.

1367
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:37,640
Speaker 1: Also, just you gotta love a guy that keeps a

1368
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 1: picture with him of the girl that he loves.

1369
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 2: Can I just tell you that I don't know a

1370
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 2: year it came out, but it was way too early

1371
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:46,560
Speaker 2: for me to watch it. And that scene in the

1372
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,519
Speaker 2: boardroom in the beginning with the terminator just kills everyone

1373
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 2: was so traumatic for me.

1374
01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 1: I bet, yeah, No, that's it's It's just horrifing amazing movie.

1375
01:09:58,040 --> 01:09:58,559
Speaker 3: So good though.

1376
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:00,320
Speaker 1: Can I tell you how quick can I to do

1377
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 1: a quick sidebar of Valentine's Day?

1378
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 3: Always Valentine's Day?

1379
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:05,640
Speaker 1: That just reminded me. The picture things just reminded me.

1380
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 1: We have family friends named the Malkenes. My one of

1381
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 1: my dad's best friends is Kevin Gary and his sister,

1382
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 1: Marilyn Mulkeen is the woman. Remember that high school picture

1383
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:16,720
Speaker 1: I showed you where I'm leaning against a ladder and

1384
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:17,880
Speaker 1: I have almost.

1385
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 2: A unibrows where you look like one of Kelly Bundy's

1386
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 2: best friends. You look like Kelly Bundy's like, why Kelly

1387
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 2: Bundy got into trouble.

1388
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 1: That's right, I'm her smoking friends. Yes, So Marilyn Mulkeen

1389
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:33,439
Speaker 1: was also because it's so small town. She also lived

1390
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 1: next door to my best friend, Christine Good, and so

1391
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 1: she took Christine's senior portrait, she took mine, she took everybody.

1392
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 2: She's like a really great photographer. And when we were

1393
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 2: I can't remember where we were.

1394
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:45,160
Speaker 1: One time she told me the story of how her

1395
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:48,559
Speaker 1: and her husband Tom got together.

1396
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:51,040
Speaker 3: They were like childhood.

1397
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 1: He was friends with her, with Kevin and with the

1398
01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 1: boys and their in the Gary family. They were all

1399
01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 1: on vacation at the Russian River. I think the boys

1400
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,439
Speaker 1: he's worth like fourteen or thirteen, and she was like

1401
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 1: eleven or twelve. And I tell the story because Marilyn

1402
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 1: died in November of cancer, and it makes me super

1403
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:13,559
Speaker 1: sad because I hadn't seen her in a long time,

1404
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,080
Speaker 1: and she's truly one of the coolest. She was like

1405
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 1: one of those cool people of your parents' friends where

1406
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 1: were like, Oh, I want to talk to her.

1407
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:21,439
Speaker 3: She's like, I'm going to tell you how it is

1408
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:22,519
Speaker 3: because no one else is.

1409
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:28,280
Speaker 1: Yes, like she really was a legit rad lady. And

1410
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:33,160
Speaker 1: I'm very sad that she's passed away, but I still

1411
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:34,880
Speaker 1: have this story and I love it so much. So

1412
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 1: she is a twelve year old girl is watching these

1413
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:41,439
Speaker 1: boys play in rough house and they all grabbed Tom

1414
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:45,679
Speaker 1: and who is like, you know, her older brother's cute friend.

1415
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:47,960
Speaker 1: And they're about to throw him into the Russian river,

1416
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 1: and so he pulls his wallet out of his back

1417
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 1: pocket and he tosses it to Marilyn. He goes hold

1418
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:54,639
Speaker 1: that for me as they throw him into the water,

1419
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,839
Speaker 1: and she catches it and it falls open in her hands,

1420
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 1: and he has a picture of her in his and

1421
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:04,640
Speaker 1: they were married for fifty one years. And that is

1422
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 1: my favorite. That's just a little sidebar Valentine's Day story.

1423
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,640
Speaker 1: It's my favorite love story of like when you are

1424
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 1: a twelve year old girl and they're like a boy.

1425
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:14,959
Speaker 3: Idea that a boy would.

1426
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:17,599
Speaker 1: Have your school picture in his wallet, like you're the girl,

1427
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:20,880
Speaker 1: I like love and then actually they actually end up married.

1428
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:24,400
Speaker 3: Crush, the crush you have at twelve years old, well

1429
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:26,719
Speaker 3: never it just never.

1430
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:31,560
Speaker 2: It never burns that break never again because it's so innocent,

1431
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 2: and it's also so like idealistic, like you you know,

1432
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:37,639
Speaker 2: it's like when you're twelve, you don't pick bad boys.

1433
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:40,559
Speaker 2: You pick like it's like, oh he's nice, or like

1434
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:41,880
Speaker 2: he said something nice to me.

1435
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 3: Or he has freckles or some stupid.

1436
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 1: Some dumb shit, or he's just in the living room.

1437
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:50,800
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's that. But I love I mean to me

1438
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:53,439
Speaker 1: like my brother, Oh that's my favorite Valentine's story. And

1439
01:12:53,439 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 1: I just sidebarred you so hard. Sorry, but that was beautiful.

1440
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 3: Okay, good, good, I love it. Let's get back. Okay.

1441
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 2: The Jacob alibi, so the ANA crime's like beetpoop op,

1442
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:08,519
Speaker 2: I'm machine and the old folks the Jacob's alibi or

1443
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:13,839
Speaker 2: quote unconfirmed and unsubstantiated. So anacrime is like hell, fucking

1444
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 2: no ooh, you're lying, the fucking liars. We need anna

1445
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 2: crime Ana crime when you were in your forties, you're

1446
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:25,680
Speaker 2: fucking lying. Also arrested is fucking Muriel Bowl, remember her,

1447
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 2: the fucking little redhead, fifteen year old. She's arrested at

1448
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 2: this point for complicity and murder and non report of

1449
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:36,320
Speaker 2: a crime. So they're like, you knew more than you

1450
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:38,880
Speaker 2: were saying at the time, and we're finally.

1451
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:39,959
Speaker 3: Getting down to cases.

1452
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:43,080
Speaker 2: However, so she goes on a hunger strike again for

1453
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:48,240
Speaker 2: a few days whatever, a month after they're arrested.

1454
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:49,720
Speaker 3: Let's go back.

1455
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:53,400
Speaker 2: Remember, remember Jean Michel Lambert, the thirty whatever the fuck

1456
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:56,160
Speaker 2: year old investigator who had got taken off of the

1457
01:13:56,320 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 2: case in July twenty seventeen, just few months ago. He's

1458
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 2: sixty five years old. He's found dead in his apartment

1459
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:10,639
Speaker 2: from suicide. What a plastic bag over his head. By

1460
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:14,760
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty seven, he had been replaced by Maurice, as

1461
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 2: we said, and Maurice wrote at the time in his

1462
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 2: personal notebooks that Lambert had an intellectual disorder, and he said,

1463
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:25,920
Speaker 2: I am in the midst of a miscarriage of justice

1464
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:31,559
Speaker 2: and all its horror about the accusations against Gregory's mother.

1465
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 2: In his suicide note Lambert proclaims his certainty about the

1466
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:40,840
Speaker 2: innocence of Bernard, but he says he no longer has

1467
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:43,920
Speaker 2: the strength to fight. So at this point he still

1468
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,560
Speaker 2: thinks that I don't know if the mother is responsible

1469
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:51,160
Speaker 2: or whatever, whatever, who whatever, He thinks that Bernard is

1470
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:54,280
Speaker 2: not not guilty.

1471
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 1: He can't let go of his own first instinctule theory.

1472
01:14:58,280 --> 01:14:58,479
Speaker 3: Right.

1473
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:02,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, we also have learned several other letters have been

1474
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:05,920
Speaker 2: sent since the restart of the investigation in June. A

1475
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:10,040
Speaker 2: prosecutor has been threatened with death by the raven. What

1476
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:12,920
Speaker 2: the Raven's back letters are still being fucking written?

1477
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:13,679
Speaker 3: Holy shit.

1478
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:19,560
Speaker 2: By twenty fourteen, nearly three thousand press articles, about fifty

1479
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:23,439
Speaker 2: you know, papers, a TV movie, and fifteen books have

1480
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:28,720
Speaker 2: been made about this case. And it's still ongoing. And

1481
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,400
Speaker 2: so we will update you when we find out that

1482
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:35,519
Speaker 2: God is the case of Petite, the Affair of the

1483
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:38,600
Speaker 2: Petit Gregory, the case of Little Gregory.

1484
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:41,599
Speaker 3: That is so heavy. How have we never heard of that?

1485
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:43,760
Speaker 3: I've never heard any of that.

1486
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 2: I must have seen it late night in one of

1487
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:49,960
Speaker 2: those listy things that you've never heard of, and saw

1488
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:53,800
Speaker 2: this photo of the sweet little boy that this he's

1489
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:57,719
Speaker 2: so French and cute and sweet, messy little hair and horrible.

1490
01:15:58,080 --> 01:15:58,960
Speaker 3: It's just awful.

1491
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:01,880
Speaker 1: Well, and also just that it sounds like things are

1492
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 1: so bad, so entrenched, that people have just went insane,

1493
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:09,720
Speaker 1: like they were surrounded by their family and their competition

1494
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:11,639
Speaker 1: and their small town bullshit.

1495
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:13,360
Speaker 3: Well, it's like you look at this story and you're like,

1496
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:14,360
Speaker 3: how could this have happened?

1497
01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 2: And then this happened and it's so insane, and you're like, well,

1498
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 2: the same thing happened with Jean Benet, And I'm still

1499
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 2: fucking casting aspersions and being like it was the brother,

1500
01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:22,160
Speaker 2: of course, it was this, or it was that, And

1501
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:24,599
Speaker 2: then the mom dies of cancer, and I'm still like,

1502
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:26,360
Speaker 2: maybe she had something to do with it, or her letter.

1503
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:30,120
Speaker 2: The letter looked like her handwriting, and we're doing the

1504
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 2: exact same thing.

1505
01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 1: Because you want some fucking clarity. You just want someone

1506
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 1: to step forward and go, yes, all this other shit

1507
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:38,840
Speaker 1: has happened. It's the same with Jack the Ripper, but

1508
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:41,280
Speaker 1: you just want someone to come and go, we finally

1509
01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:45,920
Speaker 1: have the one. Who here's the answer, the answer clean clear,

1510
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:50,040
Speaker 1: you know, not involving seventeen relatives or whatever, just like

1511
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:52,200
Speaker 1: who fucking whose plan was this?

1512
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:52,840
Speaker 3: And who did it?

1513
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:56,000
Speaker 2: Well? I think and fucking French people, please let me

1514
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 2: know what everyone thinks, because I have no way of knowing.

1515
01:16:57,960 --> 01:16:59,040
Speaker 3: If everyone's like, no, what.

1516
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:01,599
Speaker 2: Are you talking about? Everyone knew this person wasn't involved.

1517
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:04,640
Speaker 2: That I'm saying is guilty. I have no ida. You know,

1518
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:07,160
Speaker 2: I can't give my opinion because I can't fucking understand

1519
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:08,200
Speaker 2: any of it.

1520
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:12,479
Speaker 3: Videos. I don't understand what's going off of it. Like

1521
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:14,240
Speaker 3: literally there's like five.

1522
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 2: Articles in English and like two videos that you can

1523
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:24,720
Speaker 2: put subtitles on. Yeah, but faster, but at speed of

1524
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:32,639
Speaker 2: a hundred of asking. They're all like, I don't understand

1525
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:34,080
Speaker 2: any of it, but I want to know.

1526
01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 3: I know so well.

1527
01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:38,160
Speaker 1: That would be amazing if people actually have the like

1528
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 1: insider scoop of.

1529
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:40,280
Speaker 3: Here's what we think.

1530
01:17:40,439 --> 01:17:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think what everyone thinks is that that this

1531
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:46,360
Speaker 2: great aunt and uncle. The great aunt especially is like

1532
01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:49,439
Speaker 2: the tvous fucking matriarch of the family who planned the

1533
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 2: whole thing, including Alibis and Bernard.

1534
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:57,759
Speaker 3: Did it fuck but your own family?

1535
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:03,840
Speaker 2: It's just dark, I mean yeah, I think it's just

1536
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:07,559
Speaker 2: like this anger jealousy situation. Oh you ending this was

1537
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:10,599
Speaker 2: showing me those bowling socks again because everything is sad

1538
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:12,519
Speaker 2: and awful and it's the only light we have in

1539
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:13,200
Speaker 2: our lives.

1540
01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:14,280
Speaker 3: What if I hold up.

1541
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:17,519
Speaker 1: A bowling sock every time things go so so dark

1542
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:19,519
Speaker 1: into the human existence of.

1543
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:21,360
Speaker 3: That's all I want is a bowling sock.

1544
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 1: Even look at it, Steve On, like a is a

1545
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:26,920
Speaker 1: bowling songet Stephen was really bent over. He's really bent

1546
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 1: over just now. Horror feeling those French feelings and.

1547
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 3: We just have to remember these bowling songs. French feelings

1548
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 3: are stronger than regular feelings. Oh God, damn, that's awful.

1549
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:38,720
Speaker 2: I know.

1550
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:46,360
Speaker 1: Okay, we're back. Are there updates for this story?

1551
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:46,679
Speaker 3: Yes?

1552
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 2: So. In twenty seventeen, charges filed against Jacqueline and Marcel

1553
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:53,599
Speaker 2: Jacob and Muriel Bowl were dropped within a year due

1554
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:57,599
Speaker 2: to legal technicalities. In June of twenty seventeen, Muriel's cousin

1555
01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:00,639
Speaker 2: Patrick Favor told police that in night Time eighty four,

1556
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:03,920
Speaker 2: her family had physically abused Mauriel to get her to

1557
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:08,320
Speaker 2: recant her testimony against Bernard. Mariel has denied this and

1558
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:11,920
Speaker 2: accused Patrick of lying. In twenty eighteen, she published Breaking

1559
01:19:11,960 --> 01:19:14,759
Speaker 2: the Silence, a book detailing her involvement in the case.

1560
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:17,880
Speaker 2: In it, she maintains her innocence and doubles down that

1561
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:20,640
Speaker 2: the police coerced her into implicating Bernard.

1562
01:19:21,160 --> 01:19:22,200
Speaker 3: In January twenty.

1563
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:24,559
Speaker 2: Twenty, a French appeals court declared Mariel's nineteen eighty four

1564
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 2: detention by police to be unconstitutional, and because of this statements,

1565
01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 2: Mariel had made while in custody had to be removed

1566
01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:35,080
Speaker 2: from the case file. Statements she made while not in custody, however,

1567
01:19:35,439 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 2: like her initial allegations against Bernard, remain in it. In

1568
01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:43,719
Speaker 2: April twenty twenty, Monique Villeman, Gregory's grandmother, died from COVID nineteen.

1569
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:44,639
Speaker 3: She was eighty eight.

1570
01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:48,600
Speaker 2: During the twenty seventeen investigation, investigators alleged that Monique was

1571
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:51,719
Speaker 2: the author of the threatening letter sent to Judge Maurice

1572
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:53,320
Speaker 2: Simon in nineteen ninety.

1573
01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:55,040
Speaker 3: In October twenty.

1574
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:58,559
Speaker 2: Twenty five, Jacqueline, under mounting police suspicion that she too

1575
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 2: authored some of the anonymous letters, was formally indicted on

1576
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:05,840
Speaker 2: related conspiracy charges, and as of the latest reporting, a

1577
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:09,040
Speaker 2: French appeals court is expected to decide this month July

1578
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:12,320
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, whether these charges should be dismissed over

1579
01:20:12,360 --> 01:20:16,799
Speaker 2: statute limitations, concerns and Among the documentaries on this case

1580
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:20,960
Speaker 2: are twenty eighteen's The Curse of the Volange, which is French,

1581
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:24,680
Speaker 2: and a twenty nineteen documentary Who Killed Little Gregory from Netflix,

1582
01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:27,559
Speaker 2: and a dramatization of the case aired as a six

1583
01:20:27,680 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 2: episode French mini series in twenty twenty one. Entitled a

1584
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:35,280
Speaker 2: fair Francis or a French case. All right, let's get

1585
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:37,000
Speaker 2: into recommendations corner.

1586
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:38,559
Speaker 3: That's new. That is new.

1587
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:40,080
Speaker 1: We were trying to change it up a little bit.

1588
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:49,360
Speaker 2: Okay, so we're going to end this differently right now, Right,

1589
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:51,840
Speaker 2: you and I were talking about how I just don't

1590
01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:54,200
Speaker 2: want to keep fucking we end the episode with things

1591
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:56,120
Speaker 2: that makes us happy, and I'm just going to keep

1592
01:20:56,160 --> 01:20:58,120
Speaker 2: saying my cats or that my back doesn't hurt, and

1593
01:20:58,160 --> 01:21:02,120
Speaker 2: I'm fucking sick of myself. Right, So like we're gonna

1594
01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:04,800
Speaker 2: save this for like what were we gonna either read

1595
01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:06,280
Speaker 2: a thing or well.

1596
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:07,439
Speaker 3: I brought a thing. I have a thing.

1597
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:09,840
Speaker 2: Okay, great, I tried to actually do something great and

1598
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:12,320
Speaker 2: I have a recommendation that made that makes me really happy.

1599
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:15,240
Speaker 2: So like, after this episode, go watch this thing I'm

1600
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:17,439
Speaker 2: going to tell you about because this is the worst

1601
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:18,160
Speaker 2: so great.

1602
01:21:18,479 --> 01:21:20,599
Speaker 3: So this is all new. We're getting it a shot.

1603
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:22,640
Speaker 1: It's basically we take the beginning and we're putting it

1604
01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:24,960
Speaker 1: at the end. Yeah, because we decided we front loaded.

1605
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 1: We frontload everything with all everything we love and are

1606
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:30,479
Speaker 1: excited about, and then we drain ourselves with horror.

1607
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:32,080
Speaker 3: And then it's like what do you like? Well, and

1608
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:34,559
Speaker 3: then we're staring at each other going, what why haven't

1609
01:21:34,600 --> 01:21:36,680
Speaker 3: you gone to the movies? Don't you guys understand?

1610
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:39,120
Speaker 2: I don't know that half the time at the end,

1611
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 2: when we have to say a thing we're happy about,

1612
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:43,479
Speaker 2: we have to make Steven cut out ten minutes of

1613
01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:47,320
Speaker 2: us going I don't know, suit Ka, I don't know

1614
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:49,560
Speaker 2: because it's just so depressing.

1615
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:50,479
Speaker 3: It's depressing.

1616
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:54,599
Speaker 1: But also I think that we are afraid to overlea plan.

1617
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:56,679
Speaker 1: We just want to have this be it the most

1618
01:21:56,760 --> 01:22:00,000
Speaker 1: natural conversation possible. I don't like the planning planny of life.

1619
01:22:00,160 --> 01:22:03,200
Speaker 1: Anytime I come with something in my pocket, it feels

1620
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:06,880
Speaker 1: fake and clunky. Yeah, so I always think, like, when

1621
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:09,320
Speaker 1: we get there, something's gonna pop into my head that

1622
01:22:09,439 --> 01:22:09,920
Speaker 1: makes you.

1623
01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 3: Know what I love.

1624
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:12,759
Speaker 2: And then but then you're like I love Hash Browns.

1625
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:15,080
Speaker 2: You're like, I just talked about a dead kid. It

1626
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:15,880
Speaker 2: feels terrible.

1627
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:17,800
Speaker 3: It's not enough. It's never enough. No.

1628
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:19,640
Speaker 2: This is why Elvis meo is at the end of

1629
01:22:19,640 --> 01:22:22,920
Speaker 2: every episode is because when we did an episode once

1630
01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:25,400
Speaker 2: and we were like, how do we end this? I

1631
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:28,080
Speaker 2: was like, oh shit, let's do like, let's have Elvis

1632
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:29,120
Speaker 2: meal yes.

1633
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 3: Let's just start talking about something else entirely. Let's have something.

1634
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:34,200
Speaker 2: Okay, So that's what we're gonna do. Mine is if

1635
01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:36,200
Speaker 2: you want me to go first. Sure, it's not that great,

1636
01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:38,040
Speaker 2: do it. It's just a good thing that I like.

1637
01:22:38,120 --> 01:22:38,479
Speaker 2: That's great.

1638
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:40,120
Speaker 3: Same with mine and Fluffy. Okay.

1639
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:45,960
Speaker 2: There's this Netflix show movie. It's a Netflix movie. It's

1640
01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:51,479
Speaker 2: a horror comedy about vampire roommates called What We Do

1641
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:52,080
Speaker 2: in the Shadow?

1642
01:22:52,240 --> 01:22:55,559
Speaker 3: Yes, girl, do you know it? Yes? Oh it's the greatest.

1643
01:22:55,680 --> 01:22:59,400
Speaker 3: It is so good. I have had the hardest time

1644
01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 3: not talking to you about it.

1645
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:04,400
Speaker 2: It's Jamaine from fucking Flight of the Concord Jamane Clement

1646
01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 2: and is it taiky wa tiki?

1647
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:08,960
Speaker 1: I don't know how to pronounce that guy's name. I

1648
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:09,960
Speaker 1: panic when I see it.

1649
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:17,080
Speaker 2: Even look is stealing in You're hired again at a

1650
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:21,719
Speaker 2: lower rate, at a lower rate. It is so perfect amazing.

1651
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:26,160
Speaker 2: It's basically just like, oh my, it's perfection. Reese Darby

1652
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 2: has a hilarious where were Wolves not swear Wolves?

1653
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 3: It's just so good. I want to cry, Rees Darby.

1654
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:38,240
Speaker 1: I actually one day was sitting staring at my TV

1655
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:41,040
Speaker 1: like I cannot look at one more true crime anything

1656
01:23:41,479 --> 01:23:42,519
Speaker 1: like I really hit a wall.

1657
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:43,639
Speaker 3: And then I went.

1658
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:48,560
Speaker 1: Randomly my DVR recorded Flight of the Concords, which is

1659
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:50,040
Speaker 1: almost never rerun, and.

1660
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:52,000
Speaker 2: Like, all you need to do is binge watch Flight

1661
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:53,320
Speaker 2: of the Concords and you'll be happy.

1662
01:23:53,439 --> 01:23:56,599
Speaker 1: I went straight to iTunes and bought both seasons or

1663
01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:59,120
Speaker 1: four seasons, whatever it is, because I was like, oh,

1664
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:01,400
Speaker 1: wait a second, I'm going to watch this over and

1665
01:24:01,400 --> 01:24:02,479
Speaker 1: over for the rest of my life.

1666
01:24:02,360 --> 01:24:05,800
Speaker 3: And be happy. The best show ever. I'm the hip hopopotamus.

1667
01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:10,479
Speaker 3: Rhymes are bottomless and then nothing. It's the best. There's

1668
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:11,759
Speaker 3: nothing better, there's nothing.

1669
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:14,639
Speaker 2: Maybe he did maybe he did what he maybe did,

1670
01:24:15,160 --> 01:24:18,280
Speaker 2: maybe did what he maybe did he maybe.

1671
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:18,920
Speaker 3: Did, maybe did.

1672
01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:23,320
Speaker 1: Also those posters behind Reestarby in the New Zealand office

1673
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:26,200
Speaker 1: and Ambassadors off of the River there are the best.

1674
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:29,880
Speaker 2: It's perfection. It's movie in the shadows. Is A is

1675
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:33,880
Speaker 2: A is an extension of that? Yes, and I think

1676
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:36,519
Speaker 2: they're going to bring it to this place we call

1677
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:39,800
Speaker 2: America and remake it here. Yes, but it's going to

1678
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:43,360
Speaker 2: be Jemaine and Taika, who's so cute. The other thing

1679
01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:46,000
Speaker 2: is I want to live in there because they're all hot.

1680
01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:50,400
Speaker 2: They're so hot all the vampires except for the really

1681
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:50,800
Speaker 2: old one.

1682
01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:53,400
Speaker 3: Please go watch it. It's the best show you've a

1683
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:55,639
Speaker 3: movie you've ever seen in your fucking life.

1684
01:24:55,720 --> 01:24:58,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you haven't, it's so's goddamned delakay.

1685
01:24:58,680 --> 01:25:01,439
Speaker 3: So that made me really fucking have amazing over and over.

1686
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:03,639
Speaker 1: I told you at the time I got to meet

1687
01:25:04,040 --> 01:25:06,920
Speaker 1: the Flight of the Concords I opened now that when

1688
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:09,120
Speaker 1: I very first started stand up again after I hadn't

1689
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 1: done it for five years, one of my very first

1690
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:14,840
Speaker 1: sets was opening for the Flight of the Concords in Denver.

1691
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:17,280
Speaker 3: While they were like in the in their like the

1692
01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:20,599
Speaker 3: shit the it was the height. I mean the show

1693
01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:22,160
Speaker 3: was still on. Yeah. I think it was like maybe

1694
01:25:22,160 --> 01:25:24,080
Speaker 3: their last night. They were like touring a ship. I

1695
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:26,880
Speaker 3: ate it in a way, or that we're doing music?

1696
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:28,960
Speaker 3: What were you doing music? No, no, no.

1697
01:25:29,240 --> 01:25:32,040
Speaker 1: I was trying to put a comedy set back together

1698
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:37,000
Speaker 1: and one of the main problems was that the microphone

1699
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:40,479
Speaker 1: was the mic cord was twisted around the mic stand

1700
01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:43,760
Speaker 1: probably one hundred and fifty times, Like there was no

1701
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:45,639
Speaker 1: way I was getting the mic off the mic stand.

1702
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:48,120
Speaker 1: So I had to stand there like working Stephen Wright

1703
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:52,040
Speaker 1: and deliver not set up punch jokes like conversational shit.

1704
01:25:52,560 --> 01:25:56,080
Speaker 3: It was awful. I got a terrible review.

1705
01:25:56,200 --> 01:25:59,120
Speaker 1: In one of their like local weekly papers, where they said,

1706
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:03,960
Speaker 1: it's just it should have been Kristen Schahl because she's

1707
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:05,280
Speaker 1: on the show and she's a Denver.

1708
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:08,880
Speaker 2: It's like local. Yeah, it was a horror show, but

1709
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 2: all that aside horrible Kristin shall love you. That's horrible.

1710
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:16,519
Speaker 1: Look, I did it because I wanted to be around

1711
01:26:16,520 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 1: those guys and meet them.

1712
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:19,920
Speaker 3: Oh, there's a reason why you shouldn't have done it.

1713
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:22,439
Speaker 3: But except for that, I didn't have an act.

1714
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:28,400
Speaker 1: But they were so lovely and Jamaine Clement, like, in

1715
01:26:28,479 --> 01:26:30,360
Speaker 1: my opinion, we don't have to go on and on

1716
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:32,760
Speaker 1: about this, and we certainly don't have to debate it.

1717
01:26:33,040 --> 01:26:35,720
Speaker 3: But Jamaine's hotter than what you're say.

1718
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:39,640
Speaker 1: I think Brett mackenzie is the hottest. Technically, yes, but

1719
01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:41,120
Speaker 1: then but we like a big guy.

1720
01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:41,719
Speaker 3: Well.

1721
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:45,679
Speaker 1: Also, when Jamaine Clement walks towards you to say hello,

1722
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:49,759
Speaker 1: thank you for opening the show for us, a wind

1723
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:54,640
Speaker 1: kicks up indoors and his hair blue back. There was

1724
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:56,519
Speaker 1: a thing that happened where I was standing there, like,

1725
01:26:56,880 --> 01:26:59,400
Speaker 1: what in the living fuck is coming toward me right now.

1726
01:26:59,439 --> 01:27:01,040
Speaker 3: I was, he's a vampire.

1727
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 2: Also like he's love seen his David Bowie impressions. Yes,

1728
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:11,160
Speaker 2: you'll just never there's nobody ever. It's listen, Vince doesn't

1729
01:27:11,160 --> 01:27:13,479
Speaker 2: listen to this podcast. Look and listen. My husband is

1730
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:15,920
Speaker 2: ellis in this podcast. So it's fine, so let her fly.

1731
01:27:16,200 --> 01:27:18,799
Speaker 2: And there was Books and I were watching it together

1732
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:21,240
Speaker 2: and I kept want to go. I kept almost saying

1733
01:27:21,479 --> 01:27:22,680
Speaker 2: because the guy that they turned into.

1734
01:27:23,160 --> 01:27:26,040
Speaker 1: I kept yes, that's like amazing, They're so hot.

1735
01:27:26,200 --> 01:27:28,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I couldn't do that. It's weird too.

1736
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:30,920
Speaker 1: It's weird as American girls, I think, to see hot

1737
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:33,639
Speaker 1: guys that are acting like sweet and innocent. It's such

1738
01:27:33,640 --> 01:27:36,759
Speaker 1: a strange, not of my era anyway.

1739
01:27:36,840 --> 01:27:37,320
Speaker 3: Combination.

1740
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:39,559
Speaker 2: And then they had like I'm just gonna keep talking

1741
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:43,640
Speaker 2: about they had like they had special effects that it

1742
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:47,120
Speaker 2: was this low budget movie and then these insane special

1743
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:48,360
Speaker 2: vampire effects.

1744
01:27:48,439 --> 01:27:50,559
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm going to watch it tonighter. They just did

1745
01:27:50,600 --> 01:27:51,280
Speaker 3: it perfectly.

1746
01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:55,840
Speaker 1: It was like a realistic docu series almost, but I

1747
01:27:55,880 --> 01:27:56,639
Speaker 1: know it's so perfect.

1748
01:27:56,720 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 3: It's called I wrote down The People Who Eat Darkness.

1749
01:27:59,520 --> 01:27:59,920
Speaker 3: That's not it.

1750
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:02,600
Speaker 2: That is actually a really good book about a Japanese

1751
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:04,439
Speaker 2: serial killer go listen to that.

1752
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:05,920
Speaker 3: But it's actually called what We Do in.

1753
01:28:05,920 --> 01:28:08,920
Speaker 1: The Shadows, that's right, A different thing, yes, a bit similar. Okay,

1754
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:12,439
Speaker 1: well my thing is I love it now, that's my

1755
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:15,760
Speaker 1: thing too. That's that's great. I'm support I see lotion

1756
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:18,800
Speaker 1: in your hands. Well, because we were given oh yeah,

1757
01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:21,040
Speaker 1: when we went to I believe this was in either

1758
01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:23,920
Speaker 1: Atlanta or Nashville. So this was a couple of trips ago.

1759
01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:27,200
Speaker 1: So I'm sorry that I don't as I always say.

1760
01:28:27,240 --> 01:28:29,519
Speaker 1: Someone pointed out to me on Twitter that I'm always like, sorry,

1761
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:32,519
Speaker 1: I don't remember your name. Sorry, I don't whatever it was, Kim,

1762
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:35,120
Speaker 1: But I'm trying to look on here because I bet

1763
01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:35,720
Speaker 1: you it'll tell me.

1764
01:28:35,800 --> 01:28:37,040
Speaker 3: Nashville, Tennessee. Great.

1765
01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:41,000
Speaker 1: We were given a little gift bag from some people

1766
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:42,639
Speaker 1: and I lost to fucking car.

1767
01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:43,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1768
01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:46,639
Speaker 1: But it's from a company called Love Heels Thistle Farm.

1769
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:47,880
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

1770
01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:51,559
Speaker 1: And so this is a company that's in Nashville, Tennessee

1771
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:55,840
Speaker 1: where they make hand lotions and soaps and all this stuff.

1772
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:58,400
Speaker 1: It's I think it's a lot of lip bomb lip

1773
01:28:58,640 --> 01:29:03,160
Speaker 1: We got lip bomb handlows. This amazing, Like I can't

1774
01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:05,120
Speaker 1: stop using it, body butter, could.

1775
01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:07,360
Speaker 2: It Everyone listen, because there's there's a thing and you

1776
01:29:07,439 --> 01:29:09,839
Speaker 2: and I started crying when you read that, like literally

1777
01:29:09,840 --> 01:29:11,400
Speaker 2: crying in the Greener room when we saw this.

1778
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:14,799
Speaker 1: All of the products from Love Heels, the Soul Farms

1779
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:19,920
Speaker 1: are made by women survivors. So these are women who

1780
01:29:21,400 --> 01:29:24,080
Speaker 1: These are women who get these jobs because they have

1781
01:29:24,160 --> 01:29:26,920
Speaker 1: been either they just get out of jail or they

1782
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:28,559
Speaker 1: were they are how to.

1783
01:29:28,560 --> 01:29:30,880
Speaker 2: Leave their homes because they are domestic violence issues. So

1784
01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:33,599
Speaker 2: they're going to live at this place and they get

1785
01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:34,920
Speaker 2: this career and.

1786
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:37,000
Speaker 1: They get a job, and they get and they make

1787
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:39,280
Speaker 1: these amazing beautiful products.

1788
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:41,400
Speaker 3: My hands are always dry there.

1789
01:29:41,479 --> 01:29:43,760
Speaker 1: I have a ritual before every show, I put on

1790
01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:46,200
Speaker 1: hand lotion, and if I don't do it, I get

1791
01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:47,599
Speaker 1: I get a little bit weirded out.

1792
01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:49,040
Speaker 3: Oh every once in a while.

1793
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:50,760
Speaker 2: And a mint in your mouth, A mint in my mouth,

1794
01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:52,160
Speaker 2: A mint in the mouth, and a lunch and on

1795
01:29:52,200 --> 01:29:53,559
Speaker 2: your handlam hand lotion.

1796
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:54,840
Speaker 3: This is my new hand lotion.

1797
01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:57,880
Speaker 1: It's the best because it's not greasy and it and

1798
01:29:57,920 --> 01:30:02,839
Speaker 1: it's it's curing all of my super I cutical it's amazing.

1799
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:06,200
Speaker 1: So it's actually an amazing product that like smells good

1800
01:30:06,240 --> 01:30:08,720
Speaker 1: and really really works and Also, when you buy it,

1801
01:30:09,080 --> 01:30:11,760
Speaker 1: you're supporting these people who are trying to get out

1802
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:12,599
Speaker 1: of a bad situation.

1803
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:14,800
Speaker 2: You don't just want to go Yeah, like they're Yeah,

1804
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:16,920
Speaker 2: they feel like they have a purpose.

1805
01:30:17,479 --> 01:30:20,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful, and it's they're making They're making a

1806
01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:23,320
Speaker 1: product that could be in fucking Sephora.

1807
01:30:23,520 --> 01:30:26,120
Speaker 2: I like, I like this so much better than the

1808
01:30:26,120 --> 01:30:29,400
Speaker 2: fact that Mimi, who's sitting right here, truly does make

1809
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:31,439
Speaker 2: me happy. But I don't need to repeat that every

1810
01:30:31,479 --> 01:30:32,280
Speaker 2: fucking episode.

1811
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:36,559
Speaker 3: Look, sometimes it's has that's hard. I love that. Okay,

1812
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:38,519
Speaker 3: let's do that from now on. That's a good one. Well.

1813
01:30:38,520 --> 01:30:41,360
Speaker 1: Also, we get so many and you guys, we talk

1814
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:43,280
Speaker 1: when we meet you and you get into us, we

1815
01:30:43,320 --> 01:30:46,840
Speaker 1: talk to you about it. But we are inundated with amazing,

1816
01:30:46,920 --> 01:30:51,639
Speaker 1: beautiful gifts, incredible, thoughtful, hilarious.

1817
01:30:51,439 --> 01:30:55,600
Speaker 3: Brilliant, creative, artistic. It's so fun and delicious.

1818
01:30:55,720 --> 01:30:59,479
Speaker 2: It's hard to We're all traveling, so the we're shoving

1819
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:00,479
Speaker 2: stuff in bag.

1820
01:31:00,600 --> 01:31:02,560
Speaker 3: Like I looked around my house.

1821
01:31:02,439 --> 01:31:06,120
Speaker 1: Because I had actually the card that that described in detailed.

1822
01:31:05,720 --> 01:31:06,719
Speaker 3: About thistle farms.

1823
01:31:07,080 --> 01:31:10,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just a sloppy mess. So I'm like I

1824
01:31:10,479 --> 01:31:12,360
Speaker 1: finally grabbed up this thing where I'm like, well, at

1825
01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:13,479
Speaker 1: least this is in my person.

1826
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:14,519
Speaker 3: I have this information.

1827
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:16,680
Speaker 2: We're so lucky. People have been so kind to us,

1828
01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:19,400
Speaker 2: and we're so fucking lucky. Yeah, thank you guys.

1829
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:23,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so be kind to these people. We will post.

1830
01:31:23,160 --> 01:31:25,160
Speaker 1: I will find that thing, and then we'll have Stephen

1831
01:31:25,200 --> 01:31:29,320
Speaker 1: post the Thistle Farms because it truly, aside from anything else,

1832
01:31:29,400 --> 01:31:30,280
Speaker 1: it's a great product.

1833
01:31:30,320 --> 01:31:32,519
Speaker 3: We should have a Okay, we'll talk about it later.

1834
01:31:33,400 --> 01:31:35,519
Speaker 3: Make some plans all the show. We should make some plants.

1835
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:38,679
Speaker 3: I love that. This is so much better.

1836
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:41,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, great, Yeah, yeah, it just takes five minutes

1837
01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:42,479
Speaker 2: of thinking.

1838
01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:44,960
Speaker 3: That's all we need to do. It's so exhausting. We're

1839
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:46,160
Speaker 3: going to get there someday.

1840
01:31:47,160 --> 01:31:47,519
Speaker 2: We should.

1841
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 3: We should make a podcast about it. We should.

1842
01:31:52,439 --> 01:31:59,520
Speaker 2: We should hire a team of secretaries. No offense, Stephen.

1843
01:32:03,080 --> 01:32:03,880
Speaker 3: And we're back.

1844
01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:09,280
Speaker 1: Okay, So renaming this episode. It was originally titled King

1845
01:32:09,320 --> 01:32:12,680
Speaker 1: of Police, a great name in and of itself, but

1846
01:32:12,800 --> 01:32:15,080
Speaker 1: if we were renaming it today, what would we call it?

1847
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:20,719
Speaker 2: Onslaught of Yaris, I mean love and Ryan mcbuff.

1848
01:32:20,720 --> 01:32:21,719
Speaker 3: We gotta do Ryan.

1849
01:32:21,560 --> 01:32:26,720
Speaker 1: McBryan mcbuff is so good. It's so hilarious. But then

1850
01:32:26,800 --> 01:32:29,200
Speaker 1: so does nobody put Jesus in the corner.

1851
01:32:29,400 --> 01:32:33,040
Speaker 3: So good French feelings are stronger, of course.

1852
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:33,439
Speaker 1: That's purpose.

1853
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:36,120
Speaker 3: Were good. Okay, that was this week's episode of rewind.

1854
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:38,439
Speaker 3: We're going to say goodbye from the pod loft in

1855
01:32:38,479 --> 01:32:39,240
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen.

1856
01:32:42,800 --> 01:32:46,640
Speaker 2: But thank you all for listening. Yes, you guys are

1857
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:51,160
Speaker 2: fucking angels. Thanks for being outfield in the endfield, and

1858
01:32:51,200 --> 01:32:52,040
Speaker 2: we appreciate it.

1859
01:32:52,400 --> 01:32:55,560
Speaker 1: You guys are like ghost baseball players in a cornfield.

1860
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:58,839
Speaker 3: We built it. We look outside and you can. Georgia

1861
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:01,200
Speaker 3: write us. She said, we built it. She pushed your

1862
01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:01,960
Speaker 3: boobs together.

1863
01:33:04,720 --> 01:33:05,479
Speaker 4: We built here.

1864
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:09,599
Speaker 2: I love grabbing my tts. Thank you, guys, Stay sexy

1865
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:10,759
Speaker 2: and don't get murdered.

1866
01:33:11,240 --> 01:33:16,040
Speaker 3: Good Bye, Elvis Lore Quickie