1 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 1: Or Hey, did you know that there's a whole universe 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: of particles that exists all around us, passing through us, 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: and you can't feel any of it. You mean like 4 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: a like a ghost world. Yeah, like zillions of particles 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: and you can't see or touch or detect or really 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: could even know that they're there. So what do you 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: mean it's like a whole universe passing through me, Like 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: there's stuff but we can't see it or touch it. 9 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: I mean that there's a huge amount of stuff in 10 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: the universe that you can't detect. It's there, it's interacting, 11 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: it's doing things, but you can't notice it. You don't 12 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: only notice things with your senses. That doesn't access everything 13 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: in the universe. In fact, we have no idea what 14 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: for acting in the universe We can't see at all. Right, 15 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: there could be huge amounts of crazy, invisible purple monsters 16 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: that we can't touch and never will. Well, those that 17 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: can't see sometimes you know, yeah, sometimes we can see 18 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: a little hints of it, and that gives us a 19 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: clue that there are vast amounts of things happening in 20 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: the universe that we only rarely get to see. Whoa 21 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: WHOA is right. Hi, I'm je and I'm Daniel, and 22 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: this is Daniel and Jorge Explain the universe. The universe, 23 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: The Universe, the universe. Yeah, it's a podcast where we 24 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: try to talk about all the crazy and amazing things 25 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: that make up this universe we live in. We want 26 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: to take the whole universe, wrap it up in about 27 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: twenty minutes and make it digestible to you fitted inside 28 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: of your brain, through your ears, or you know, really, 29 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: maybe we could grind it up, dry it and you 30 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: could snort the universe. That'd be pretty That's what we 31 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: just say. Or however you consume your podcasts, that's very 32 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,919 Speaker 1: important in whatever, in whatever form you smoke or snort 33 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: or listen to your podcasts. But on today's program, we're 34 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: gonna talk about something mysterious, something you can't eat, but 35 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: something which is all around you right now. Billions and 36 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: billions of them are passing through you right now. And 37 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: we're not talking about last night's pizza. I know. The 38 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: topic of today's episode is the neutrino called the ghostly particle, right, 39 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: that's right. Some two people call it the ghostly particle. 40 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: The word neutrino is Italian for little neutral one. It's 41 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: a nickname given to the particle well before it was discovered, 42 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: and it's a really weird little particle. So we thought, 43 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: let's break it down to explain to people what it 44 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 1: actually is, because it's a fascinating mystery. Yeah, I imagine 45 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: not a lot of people who have heard of I 46 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: mean maybe some people have heard of the neutron, but 47 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: the neutrino that may not be as well known. In 48 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: order to get a sense for what people knew about 49 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: the neutrino, I went out and I asked people around 50 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: campus that you see Irvine what they knew. So play 51 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: along at home, think to yourself, what do you know 52 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: about the neutrino? And then listen to these interviews. Here's 53 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: what people had to say. I don't watch about it, 54 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 1: but it's I often hear that got like a cosmic 55 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: some one of those cosmic race and people try to 56 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: detect using specialized tools. I heard of it, but I 57 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: don't exactly what it is. Great, I do not know 58 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: what that is now, um no, no, alright, I'm not 59 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: exactly sure. So like some kind of funk esdays and nutrition, 60 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: I don't know what is it? Alright? Not a popular particle. No, 61 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: Almost nobody on campus had any idea what the neutrina was. 62 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: One person thought it was some sort of fungus that 63 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: might grow on your toes, which you could still be 64 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: I mean, well, I mean, we don't know a lot 65 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: about it. Right well, it could have potentially contribute to fungi, 66 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: or you could could be accumulating in your toes right now, Daniel. 67 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: More likely somebody creates or just or discovers a new 68 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: form of fungus and names it after the neutrino right 69 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: after this podcast goes wild. But yeah, pretty much across 70 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: the board, everyone said I've never heard of this, And 71 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: let me tell you how deeply disappointing that is to 72 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: me as a particle physicist. Work you see, Irvine, and 73 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: let me tell you why. The reason is that the 74 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: guy who discovered the new trino and won the Nobel 75 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: Prize for it. Okay, and down at you See Irvine. 76 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: We have a few Nobel Prize winners. But it's not 77 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: like we have dozens and dozens. It's not like Berkeley 78 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: where they have a special parking lot for Nobel Prize winners. 79 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,239 Speaker 1: Nobel Prize, Daniel, I do not have a Nobel Prize 80 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: as the recording of this podcast Breaking News, Breaking News. 81 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: You think that's something you would already know, because if 82 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: I had a Nobel Prize, I'd be wearing it around 83 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: my chest. Um So, so it was discovered by somebody 84 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: in your campus, right there, Fred Ryness. Yeah. In fact, 85 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: the building is now named after him. I work in 86 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: Ryness Hall, named after Fred Ryness, the discoverer of the 87 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: new Trino, and he won the Nobel Prize. This is 88 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: It's a pretty big deal around campus, and so you 89 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: think maybe somebody on campus here, you see Irvine, would 90 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: know that. What's one of the things that we're famous for? 91 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: Is it part of like the tours when people, you know, 92 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: people tour campuses and they say, this is where the 93 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: nutrina was discovered. Oh my god, don't even get me started. 94 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: It is part of the tour. But it drives me 95 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: crazy because every time they walk by my building and 96 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: they hear the tour and they say, oh, this is 97 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,919 Speaker 1: the building named after Fred Ryan is so won the 98 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: Nobel Prize. Then they give a little spiel about the 99 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: neutrino and they get almost everything about it totally wrong. 100 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: And I'm tempted every time to step into the referende. 101 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: Excuse me, Actually, you're going to train our round run 102 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: with that voice. I love it. I know how that's 103 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: gonna go over. Nobody cares. But do you know I 104 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: feel like people visiting the campuses deserve a good explanation. 105 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: It might factor into their decision to go to u 106 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: c R. Vine. Let's record an excellent podcast about the neutrino, 107 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: and then it will make it required listening for all 108 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: the tour guides, and then I won't have to explain 109 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: it to every single one of them one aever. Well, 110 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: just just put it on a speaker. You'll stand outside 111 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: your building with a boom box playing the podcast, like 112 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: you to say anything that's right. Yeah, I definitely will 113 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: not get picked up by campus security to nanoseconds. Absolutely, 114 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: that's a great idea, Thank you, y. So let's break 115 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: it down. What is a neutrina all right? A neutrino 116 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: is a fundamental particle. What does that mean? Well, a 117 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 1: fundamental particle, as we see it, is a point in space. 118 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: It's a tiny dot, right, It's a place in space 119 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: where we think there might be electric charge, there might 120 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: be matter, there might be all sorts of quantum properties. 121 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: Other examples are the electron right or the corks. These 122 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: are all particles we think are not made of other 123 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: little particles. That's why we call them fundamental. So particles 124 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: are not like little balls. You're saying there's special points 125 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: in space. That's right. We're made out of atoms, which 126 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: are made out of particles and things we're made out of. 127 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: They're not little balls. They're actually just like little special 128 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: points in space. That's kind of your definition of a particle. Yeah, exactly. 129 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: And it's very tempting to think of particles a little 130 00:06:52,800 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: balls because, for example, cartoonists frea balls and slaggers. Shame 131 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: on them. Well, it's very difficult to draw a ball 132 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: that has no volume because it's literally not there. Right, 133 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: Any tiny point you draw is going to have a 134 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: left side and a right side, which means it has 135 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: a size right. But a particle is just a single 136 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: point in space. There's no extent to it. The left 137 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: side and the right side are at the same place 138 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: because there's no space there. It's a zero volume dot 139 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: in space with some quantum mechanical properties, electric charge, mass, 140 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff. So the universe is filled with 141 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: these little points that you call particles, and they're all different. 142 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: There's electrons, there, protons. The neutrino is one of these 143 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: particles that the universe likes to make, that's right. But 144 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: the proton is not one of them. Proton is not 145 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: a fundamental particle. Right, So let's review. You're made out 146 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: of atoms. Atoms have electrons and and then have a nucleus. 147 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: The nucleus is made out of protons and neutrons, and 148 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: the protons and neutrons are made out of quarks. So 149 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: all the atoms that build up you and me and 150 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: hamsters and ice cream are made out of quirks and electrons. Right. 151 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: So the up cork and the down cork make up 152 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: the proton and the neutron which gives the nucleus, and 153 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: the electron surrounds it. And that you can make any atom. 154 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: You can make uranium, you can make you know, hydrogen, 155 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: you can make lithium. Anything. It's just made out of 156 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: those three particles. So these are just things that the 157 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: universe likes to make. And there's not just the kind 158 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: that we're made out of. But there's more much more 159 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: than that, that's right. And uh, it's fascinating because most 160 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: of the stuff in the universe that we know about, 161 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: you know, gas and planets, whatever is made out of 162 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 1: these three particles up corks, down corks, and electrons. In fact, 163 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: that is the recipe for almost everything, and I was 164 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 1: thinking about it the other day. It's sort of incredible. 165 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: It's not just the recipe for everything, but it's everything 166 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: in the same proportions. That is, every atom that makes 167 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: up you has the same number of up corks and 168 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: down corks and electrons, and every atom that makes up 169 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: ice cream or lava or hamsters, it's the same number 170 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: of particles. Right, So we're getting off in a bit 171 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: of tangent here, but it's sort of fascinating because, I 172 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: mean it's like there's a similar list of ingredients in 173 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: the same proportions, not just similar, exactly the same. So 174 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: if you had a kilogram of hamsters, or a kilogram 175 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: of ice cream or a kilogram of Jorge, it would 176 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: be made out of the same particles. The only difference 177 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: is in the arrangement of them. I mean, some some 178 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: arrangements are more awesome than others. I mean, come on, 179 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: that's right. Ice cream is really pretty awesome. I totally. 180 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: The interesting thing is that, as you were saying, there 181 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: are other particles, right, there's not just those three particles. 182 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: You can make all this crazy stuff out of those 183 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: three particles, but there are other particles out there. And 184 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: that's the first mistake that's made. On the u c 185 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: I campus tour. They describe the newtrino as a sub 186 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: atomic particle, the smallest part of the atom. But the 187 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: neutrino is not part of the atom. It's not in there. 188 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: You take the atom apart, and there's only up corks, 189 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: down corks and electrons and neutrino. It's a particle. It's 190 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: in the universe, but you don't need it to make 191 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: hydrogen or lithium or uranium or any of the other eums. 192 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: But maybe they mean subpotomic in terms of its size, 193 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: like it's much much smaller than an atom in the 194 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: sense that particles have no size. That's true, yes, maybe 195 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: in the sense that it's false, it's true, right, Well, 196 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: every particle is subatomic, and from from that definition, fundamental 197 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: particles have no size. Yeah, but it's just as small 198 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: as the electron or the up cork or the down cork, 199 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: and then it has zero volume. But the interesting thing 200 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 1: about it is that it's not part of matter, right, 201 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: So it's like, why is it there? Um? But the 202 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: neutrino is weird in in a few ways. Right. Not 203 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: only does it not make up the atom, it also 204 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: doesn't feel a lot of the forces. Like the neutrino 205 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: can pass right through you without interacting. That's what we're 206 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: talking about, the top of the episode is that neutrinos 207 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: are passing through us all the time in great numbers 208 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: and we don't feel them at all, which isn't true 209 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: for electrons, right, it's a huge rain of electrons. You 210 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: would definitely feel them, and you would get cancer pretty quick. Yeah. 211 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 1: And it's interesting because pretty much anything has the capacity 212 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: to move through other things things, Right, Because if everything 213 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: is made out of point particles, which have zero volume 214 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: they're just little points in space, then technically, if you 215 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: take a whole bunch of nothing, you should be able 216 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: to pass it through another whole bunch of nothing. Right, 217 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: that's right, that's right exactly. So if you take a 218 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: bunch of point particles that don't interact with each other 219 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: at all, then they will pass through each other. There's 220 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: no chance that they will collide because they have zero volume. 221 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: So that's sort of overlapping area. What we call the 222 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: cross section particle physics is zero, right, you can't make 223 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: two things that have zero volume hit each other. It's vable, 224 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: And so yeah, you're right. You could have a huge 225 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: density of them and a new one can come along 226 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: and just pass right through it. Yeah, because like the 227 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: reason I can't go through the wall here, the reason 228 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: I can't pass through it like a ghost. It's not 229 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: that like my particles hit against the other particles like 230 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: they bump against each other. It's just like they want 231 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: to get closed. But then there's other forces that that 232 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: prevent me from going near them. Exactly. The particles that 233 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: make up the wall have no volume to them at all. Right, 234 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: It's like a it's just a bunch of dots, and 235 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: you're a bunch of dots, and so you should be 236 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: able to pass through it. Except, of course, the particles 237 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: that make up the wall are not just a disconnected 238 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: bunch of dots. They're bound very tightly together with forces, 239 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: and those forces hold them together into sheets and structures, 240 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: and also those forces repel other particles that feel those forces. 241 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: So when your finger is pushing against the wall, what's 242 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: happening is not that the ball particles in your finger 243 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: are bouncing off the ball particles in the wall, but 244 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: they're repelling each other using mostly electromagnetism. So the sensation 245 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: of touching things and holding things and standing on top 246 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: of things that it's really just like we're all kind 247 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: of magnets repelling each other. Yeah, they're electrostatic forces mostly 248 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: their chemical bonds, right. And so you can think of 249 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: like a surface of something is like a chain link fence, right, 250 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: lots of big gaps, but then there's links holding it together. 251 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: And you know, another chain link fence coming up to it, 252 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: which is also mostly air, can't pass through it because 253 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: they both have these links. So that's the thing is 254 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: that something can only touch you or affect you, or 255 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,319 Speaker 1: you can only feel it if it's affected by electromagnetic forces. 256 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: That's kind of the key, right. Yeah, So there's two 257 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: elements of the universe, not just particles, but also forces, right, 258 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: and those are the basic building blocks of how we 259 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: do science and particle physics. We got the particles and 260 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: we've got the forces. I mean, another time we can 261 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: talk about quantum field theory. And for those listeners out 262 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: there who know that, you know that everything is actually 263 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: just a quantum field. But let's talk about particles and 264 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: forces today extra credit podcast. That's right. So at this 265 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 1: level that we say it's particles and they're connected by forces, 266 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: the forces are how the particles talk to each other. 267 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 1: And if my particles are talking to your particles, then 268 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: when you punch me in the face, then that's why 269 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: I feel it right now. If you say when, as if, 270 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: it happens often, I'm trying to make this a concrete 271 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: example for the listeners, you know, not abstract type of 272 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: if I slowly caress your cheek. Hold on. I noticed 273 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: that you made that an if, not a when. Um, 274 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: let's keep this PG. Imagine that you were built out 275 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: of particles. It felt different forces than me than when 276 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: we high fived. Our hands would pass right through each 277 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: other because those forces would not pay attention to each 278 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: other or tract or repell or anything. We would like 279 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: phase right through each other because the particles that make 280 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: us up don't interact, right, So it's all about interacting. Okay, 281 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: So the neutrino is one of these particles that doesn't 282 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: speak the same language that our particles speak. That's right. 283 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: The neutrino is neutral. It has no electric charge. That's 284 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: one of the reasons it's called neutrino. Neutrino is Italian 285 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: for little neutral particle. And so it doesn't feel electromagnetism 286 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: at all. And not only does it not feel electromagnetism 287 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: like the electron does feel it, but it also doesn't 288 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: feel the strong nuclear force that's the one that holds 289 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: the corks together in the nucleus and affects the proton 290 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: and the neutron. So it doesn't feel the two strongest 291 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: forces in the universe, the strong nuclear force and electromagnetism. 292 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: Generally just likes to avoid conflict. Yeah, well, it's kind 293 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: of snob mostly ignores everything. It's nay or shy. I 294 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: don't know. You could see it both ways, says the introvert, 295 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: right standing up for the introverted particle, aren't you. Well, 296 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: let's get it more into it, but let's take a 297 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: quick break first. Okay, So the neutrino is a particle 298 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: in the universe that's there. There's a lot of them 299 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: out there, but it just doesn't feel the same forces. 300 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: It doesn't speak the same language that you and I 301 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: and all the particles that make us speak or use right, 302 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, it's like, um, you know, it's like 303 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: it's a it's deaf or something. You can walk through 304 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: the loudest bar, you know, with thump thump thump music, right, 305 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: and not even hear anything, not even notice it's there. Right, 306 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: it's not purposely ignoring you, it just does not hear it. Interesting. 307 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: I was thinking a good analogy could also be you 308 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: know how in the Internet today people communicated using Facebook 309 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: or Twitter, or Instagram or email. Those are all different 310 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: ways that people interact with each other on the Internet. 311 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: But what if there was somebody who said, you know what, 312 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,239 Speaker 1: I'm not going to use Twitter or Instagram or Facebook. 313 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna respond to people if they write me 314 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: a handwritten letter. That's right. Yeah, those people are social 315 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: media neutrinos. Yes, yeah, that's kind of what it is. 316 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: It's like everybody else is talking to each other in 317 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: one way, but this one particle just says, you know what, 318 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to ignore those different ways to interact. I'm 319 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: just gonna do my thing. Yeah, and given the toxicity 320 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: of social media, that probably means the neutrino is the 321 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: happiest particle. Yeah, you know, they made. That's the key 322 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: we should all learn from newtrinos. Yeah. Um, So let's 323 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: remind people though, what the forces are. So there's the 324 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: strong nuclear force that ties the nucleus together. There's electromagnetism 325 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: that's responsible for electricity and magnetism and light and all 326 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. And then there's the weak nuclear 327 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: force that's the weakest of of these forces. And then 328 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: there's gravity. Everything with mass feels gravity, right, but in 329 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: the case of particles, we don't really think about gravity 330 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: very much because particles have hardly any mass at all, 331 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: and so gravity doesn't really affect them to really those 332 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: other three. So the corks, the corks, they feel the 333 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: strong nuclear force and electromagnetism and the weak force. Okay, 334 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: so they feel everything. Electrons, they feel electromagnetism, and they 335 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: feel the weak nuclear force. Neutrinos only feel the weak 336 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: nuclear force, which is called the weak nuclear force because 337 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: it's super duper weak, not because it takes a week 338 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,719 Speaker 1: to act or something like that. So it doesn't just 339 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: ignore some of the forces that everybody else fields, but 340 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: it only it's like the one it chose to interact 341 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: with the rest of the universe is like the week 342 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: is one. It's like the most incossequential one, right exactly. 343 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, if you could only interact with 344 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: somebody by sending them a letter to the south pole, 345 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: and the letters only go every six months or something, right, 346 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: And you know, if the neutrino didn't feel any forces 347 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,120 Speaker 1: at all, then we would have no way to even 348 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: know it existed. There could be a whole set of 349 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: particles that speak even maybe a whole different set of forces. Yeah, 350 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: like people think about dark matter, right, dark matter, we 351 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: don't know if it feels any of these forces, and 352 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,479 Speaker 1: that's what makes it so difficult to look for and 353 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: to understand. Dark amount, as far as we know, only 354 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: speaks gravity, which is why you can only study it 355 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: when there's like a galaxy sized blob of it. Neutrinos 356 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: do feel one of these forces, which is why we 357 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: can talk about them and study them. Well, let's talk 358 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: about some of these properties that I was reading about 359 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: the neutrino. I read that it has a mass that's 360 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: maybe one less than one million of the mass of 361 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: the electron. That's right. Neutrinos are super duper duper low mass, 362 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: and we don't understand why at all. You know, we 363 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: look at the mass of these particles, the electron, the corks, 364 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: the other ones. We have no idea why these particles 365 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 1: are different masses. We did a whole episode on how 366 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: they get their masses, which is about interacting with the 367 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: Higgs boson. Some of them interact a lot with the 368 00:18:57,960 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 1: Higgs boson and so they get a lot of mass, 369 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: and some them don't interact hardly at all, so they 370 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: get almost no mass. But we don't know why, Like, 371 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,400 Speaker 1: why does this one interact with the Higgs a lot 372 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: and this one almost none. It's like a bunch of 373 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: parameters in the control panel the universe, and we don't 374 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: know if there's a pattern to it, or if they 375 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: just set randomly at the beginning of the universe. We 376 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: have no clue, but it seems like an important hint 377 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: that the neutrinos are so close to zero mass but 378 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: not actually zero. Yeah, so they are kind of tiny, right, 379 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I know everything is a point mass mathematically, 380 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: but these things, I mean they're not just a point mass, 381 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: but they're a point mass that are really really really 382 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: really really almost no mass. That's right. But if again, 383 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't affect their size right. Their physical size is 384 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: a different thing from their mass. Their mass is like 385 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: a quantum mechanical label, like electric charge. Right, it's not 386 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: like something with more mass. It is more stuffed to it. 387 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, you're right. Neutrinos are weird because they have 388 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: almost no mass but not zero, like they're not the 389 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 1: lightest thing in the universe though. Right. Photons have no 390 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 1: mass exactly zero. They travel to speed of light. Neutrinos 391 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: just less than the speed of light because they have 392 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: just more than zero mass. These particles only choose to 393 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: interact with the rest of the universe using the weak force. 394 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 1: And the weak force is not just weak, but it's 395 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: also really short, meaning that it doesn't work over long distances. 396 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: You have to be within the diameter of a proton 397 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: just to feel this force. That's right. The weak force 398 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: is super limited, right, And not only is it weak, 399 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: as you're saying, but it's short range. And the reason 400 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: is that the particles that communicate that force. Remember, we 401 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: have particles that make up matter, and then we also 402 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: have forces, and the forces themselves are communicated using particles. So, 403 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: for example, electromagnetism is communicated using the photon, right, And 404 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: electromagnetism goes everywhere in the universe has infinite range, and 405 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 1: the reason is that the photon is massless. Right, the 406 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: photon has no mass. But the particles that communicate the 407 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: weak force, they're called the w and the z bosons 408 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,880 Speaker 1: are really really v particles, sort of ironic. The lightest 409 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: particle of all the matter particles in neutrino uses the 410 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: heaviest force particles, which means that they don't go very far. 411 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 1: So this particle not only is it um ignoring a 412 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: lot of the forces, but the forces that it does 413 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: feel are super weak. And this particle is super light. 414 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 1: It's almost like it's almost not there, you know, like 415 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: what is the not at all? Not at all? In fact, 416 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: there's zillions of neutrinos. I mean, it's not there in 417 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: the sense that you can almost not tell that it's there. 418 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: But there are a huge number of neutrinos. Like if 419 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 1: you hold out your fingernail, it's approximately one square centimeter. 420 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: There are a hundred billion neutrinos passing through your fingernail 421 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: every second. D yes ten to the eleven neutrinos per 422 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: square centimeter per second. Let's count. So look at your 423 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: fingernail one one, two, three hundred billion neutrinos just went 424 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: in my fingernail, that's right, and ignored you. Right, And neutrinos, 425 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: I mean, not only can we not detect them, they 426 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: can't really detect us right to them, we are like 427 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 1: an invisible haze in the universe. Right then, don't even 428 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: know where I would exist, right, They hardly interact with. 429 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: A neutrino interact with the rest of the universe so 430 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: weakly that it can pass right through the Earth without interacting. Again, 431 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: not because it's small. It's not that it like wiggles 432 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: through cracks between atoms, right, It's that it doesn't interact. 433 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 1: It just doesn't care. It just yeah, it just flies 434 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: right through. Um. A neutrino can pass through a light 435 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: year of lead. Okay, So imagine a blob of lead 436 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: that's a light year long, which is how far light 437 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: travels any year, which is really really far, and lead 438 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: it's a really kind of like dense metal. Right, Yeah, 439 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: it's a huge amount of stuff. Right. Um, neutrino can 440 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: pass through a wall that thick and have about a 441 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: fifty percent chance of interacting. So it's just going through 442 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: the universe doing its own thing. Yeah, making us feel 443 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: even more insignificant. It's all about you, Jorge, It's all 444 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: about you. It's something insignificant. Is making us feel even 445 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 1: more insignificant. Well, we are pretty insignificant. Nothing we do 446 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: is important. Um, But it turns out that neutrinos are 447 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: not just ignoring us, they're also ignoring the whole Earth 448 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,719 Speaker 1: and other suns and everything. And you might be asking, like, 449 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: why are there so many neutrinos? Where are they coming from? 450 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 1: And the answer is that they come from the Sun. 451 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: They're produced in the fusion reaction at the core of 452 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: the Sun. Well, I think the question that I want 453 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: to know is, if they're so light, so inconsequential, so ignoring, 454 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 1: how do we even know that it's there? And why 455 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: should we even care that it's there? All right? Great, 456 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: great question? How do we know that it's there? Well, 457 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: it does interact, right, so it can interact with our world. 458 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: And because there are so many of them, the big 459 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: number of how many there are and the small number 460 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: of the probability of them to interact actually balance out 461 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: to give us a reasonable number of times. And neutrinos 462 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: do interact with normal matter. And so if you set 463 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: up a big experiment. You can catch neutrinos right, because 464 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: there's a huge number of them. So out of the 465 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: hundreds of billions fault flowing through my fingernail, every once 466 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: in a while, one mom would be like, oh, hey, 467 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: what's this. It's a fingernail exactly. I don't know what 468 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 1: a fingernail is, but I just ran into it. Yeah. 469 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: So what you do if you want to catch new 470 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 1: trinos is you set up a big vat, for example, 471 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: of water underground, and you shield it from everything else, 472 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: so you make sure you don't get any background from 473 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: muans or anything else crazy, and you wait until one 474 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: of those atoms of water and gets bumped by something mysterious, 475 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: and there are ways to tell whether or not it 476 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: was bumped by something like a neutrino. And that's the 477 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: way that we measure neutrinos. Today. We have these huge detectors, 478 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: like the ones called super Comioconda in Japan that measure 479 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: neutrinos from the Sun and from other sources. And they 480 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: do about having these big tanks of heavy water and 481 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: waiting for one of them to get bumped by neutrino. 482 00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,719 Speaker 1: So that's how we know where they were there, like, 483 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: can definitely see them, You can definitely see them interacting. Yeah, 484 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: and that's how fred Ryan saw them. He signed neutrinos 485 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: bouncing off of protons and turning into a very characteristic 486 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: signal that you couldn't mimic with anything else. And so 487 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: I mean in that sense, he doesn't see the neutrinos 488 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: themselves directly. It's not like he captured one, put it 489 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: in the box, said ah ha, look here's my Nobel 490 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: Prize winning discovery. What he saw was something that happened 491 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: that only a neutrino could do. Well, I have more questions, 492 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: but let's take a quick break. So, I think a 493 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: lot of particle physics laboratories in the country and across 494 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: the world. Now there's kind of a renewed interest in 495 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: neutrinos now that we found the Higgs boson and and 496 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: a lot of these particles in the standard model of physics. 497 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: There's a lot of interest down the netrino. So why 498 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: is that, Well, why is the neutrino interesting or why 499 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: is it a big deal? Yeah, it's a big deal, 500 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: and not just because it's weird, but one of the 501 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: things we want to do in particle physics is understand 502 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 1: the universe at its smallest scale, right, understand the tiniest 503 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: little bits. And to do that, we need to look 504 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: not just at the kind of matter that makes us up, 505 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: but the kind of matter that's everywhere in the universe. 506 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: Because we're looking for ideas and patterns that go bigger 507 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 1: than humanity, right, that that are tell us something fundamental 508 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: and deep about the universe. So for that we need 509 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 1: to cast our net as widely as possible and understand 510 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: how this kind of matter works, how other kinds of 511 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: matter works. And so it's important to understand neutrinos because 512 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: they are there their clue somehow about how the universe 513 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: is put together. Right, And it could be and I said, 514 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: neutrinos are fundamental, that they're not made of other things. 515 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: That's our current state of knowledge. It could be the 516 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: neutrinos and corks and electrons and every particle we know 517 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: are actually made out of something smaller neutrinos. Neutrinos. To 518 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: answer your question, why should we study them, Well, they 519 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: give us clues as to how the whole principles working together. Right. 520 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: We wanted to get the big picture so we can 521 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: see all the patterns because those patterns give us clues 522 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: as to what's going on to underneath, what these things 523 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: are all made out of, and what the answers are. 524 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: But also because neutrinos themselves are really weird. They can 525 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: do things that other particles can't, Like they can change 526 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,719 Speaker 1: from one type into the other. You know, for example, 527 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: an electron is an electron is an electron. It's never 528 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 1: going to change into a muan, but an electron neutrino. 529 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: Neutrinos come in three different flavors electron, muon, and taw. 530 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: They can switch from one to the other. So you 531 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,959 Speaker 1: create one type in the Sun and as it's flying 532 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: to the Earth that has about a one third chance 533 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: to change into another kind of neutrino. That's really strange. 534 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: It's not something we've seen before, and it actually breaks 535 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: a pretty basic rule in the standard model of particle 536 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: physics that you can't switch from one kind of flavor 537 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,439 Speaker 1: to another. So we don't know why that is when, 538 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: don't know what it means. Lots of possibilities. It's like 539 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: it's not only ignoring Twitter and Facebook and Instagram, it's 540 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: changing its address every three months, like it really doesn't 541 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: want to be found. That's right. Yeah, it's a pretty 542 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: weird little particle can do all sorts of things, and 543 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: so we're hoping that figuring out what he can do 544 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,479 Speaker 1: and how it interacts and nailing down all these details 545 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: will give us a clue as to some of the 546 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: deeper mysteries. You know, how did all the matter come 547 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: to be? Why do we have the matter or not antimatter? 548 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: What are all these things made out of? We're hoping 549 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: that just nailing down and tying up the loose ends 550 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: and new trinos gives us clues to answer these other bigger, 551 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,159 Speaker 1: deeper questions, because that's kind of how science works, you know, right. 552 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: I mean, science doesn't just study human beings and our biology. 553 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: Science also studies other animals and other organisms, because that 554 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: tells us a lot about why we're here, or what 555 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: the rules are for why we're here. Yeah, exactly exactly. 556 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: To understand humanity, you understand all of our closest cousins 557 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: and our distant relatives and the whole spectrum of life 558 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: on Earth to get the context. And so we want 559 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: to understand how particles work. We want to we need 560 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: to study all of them. Yeah, I mean, the weird 561 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: ones that don't want to be found. That's right, We're 562 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: going to ignore all of their preferences and study him anyway. Yeah, 563 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: I'm not a particle physicist. I'm a particle stalker. Yeah, 564 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: particle hunter. Isn't that what they sometimes they call you guys, 565 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: particle hunters? Particle hunters? Yeah, look, I found one, this 566 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: one right here. So what do you think learning about 567 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: this ghostly particle is going to teach us? Like, what 568 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: are the possibilities of things we can learn from it? Well, 569 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: we could learn that there are other kinds of particles 570 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: out there. Some people think that there might be four 571 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: kinds of neutrinos out there. There's a new kind of 572 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: of neutrino called the sterile neutrino, which doesn't even feel 573 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: the weak force. Right, people think that there there might 574 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: be this other kind of particle out there. Um, it 575 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: might tell us something about why we have matter and 576 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: antimatter because it it might be related to how things 577 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,479 Speaker 1: switch back and forth. Um. But most likely I think 578 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: it's going to contain some surprises. You know, particle physics, 579 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: the history of us has been full of surprises. Do 580 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: you think think this is happening? Turns out bad's happening, 581 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: and the only way to dig into it is to 582 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: just explore, dig into it and figure it out and 583 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: see what nature has to tell us. The asked, he 584 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: would be neutral. That's right. And so I hope after 585 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: listening to this episode those folks out there, I'll know 586 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: now what a neutrino is. That's not a fungus on 587 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: your toneail, and that it's a tiny particle. Yes, And 588 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: also it was that it was discovered in the campus 589 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: of UC Berkeley, Irvine, UC Irvine. That's wait, it's not 590 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: UC Berkeley. Actually you know that. You just said that 591 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: to Ryan me up. All right, Well, thank you for 592 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: joining us. See you next time. Another piece of the 593 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: universe explained before. You still have a question after listening 594 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: to all these explanations, please drop us a line. We'd 595 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. You can find us at Facebook, Twitter, 596 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: and Instagram at Daniel and Jorge that's one word, or 597 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: email us at Feedback at Daniel and Jorge dot com.