1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Today's episode discusses the death of individuals. If this sort 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: of thing upsets you, this is not the episode for you. 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Mayhem in the War with their host Doctor 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: Kindo crowns today's episode Gator Bait. When a body comes 5 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: into the medical examiner's office, one of the first things 6 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: we do is identify that individual, and there are two 7 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,599 Speaker 1: methods for doing this, non scientific methods and scientific methods. 8 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: To day, we'll be discussing the scientific methods. Scientific methods 9 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: can be one of five things. It can be finger prints, 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: comparison of dental X rays, comparison of radiographic studies done 11 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: at hospitals, looking at serial numbers found on medical devices 12 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: that are implanted in the body, and finally DNA. The 13 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: dental X rays, the radiographic studies, and the serial numbers 14 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: all require you to have medical records of some sorts, 15 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: so you have to have a bit of a presumptive 16 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: id to get those in the first place. Fingerprints, of course, 17 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: everybody has them. Everybody's are different because they form when 18 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: you're a fetus, moving your hands around in the amniotic fluid, 19 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: touching your face, et cetera. Even if you're an identical 20 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: twin your fingerprints are different. DNA is incredibly helpful, but 21 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: it does take a long period of time. We try 22 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: to exhaust all the other options before we resort to DNA. 23 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: First case we'll be discussing today was that of a 24 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: sixty two year old male. He was retired and enjoyed 25 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: going fishing. He would often spend three to four days 26 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: off on a fishing trip all by himself. Usually on 27 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: these fishing trips, he would check in with his wife 28 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: or talk to other family members every day. He had 29 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: checked in late in the evening on the day before 30 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: his death, but the next day he did not call. 31 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: One whole day went by, and then on the second day, 32 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: his wife became worried. She tried to call him several 33 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: times without success, so she decided to drive to the 34 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: area where he was fishing at and look for him. 35 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: When she arrived at the boat ramp that he normally used, 36 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: she found his truck and trailer. She couldn't see his 37 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: boat out on the lake, so she decided to notify 38 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: the local police department. The police department arrived on the scene, 39 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: and then they notified the coast guard and the game wardens, 40 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: and then the search began. During the search of the area, 41 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: they found his boat still anchored in about two to 42 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: three feet of water. Inside the boat was as wallet 43 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: and cell phone, and near by was a ripped up 44 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: pair of jeans, a boot, and a fish string or 45 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: belt which is sometimes used to keep fish in a 46 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: line while a person wades in the water. When they 47 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: picked up the torrent jeans, they also found two bones 48 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: that looked like they were human, and they turned out 49 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: to be human. They were a tibbianphibula, which are the 50 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: bones of your lower leg. While they were searching the area, 51 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: they noticed three large alligators nearby. The alligators kept tracking 52 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: and watching the search party the entire time. The game 53 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: wardens decided that the alligators were somehow involved, and the 54 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: decision was made to shoot them. I know for all 55 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: you alligators lovers out there that this is a horrible moment, 56 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: but it is what it is. The three alligators were shot, 57 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: and an individual that was contracted through that county for 58 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: alligator removal came in and opened up the alligators and 59 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: pulled out their stomachs, kind of like that scene and Jaws. 60 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: They opened the three stomachs up and amongst all sorts 61 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: of debris, apparent soft tissue, and hair and bones that 62 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: appeared to be human. They bagged up the stomach contents 63 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: and brought them to the medical examiner's office. When we 64 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: opened the bags containing the stomach contents, the first thing 65 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: that hit us was an odd acid and swamp water smell. 66 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: It's hard to describe, but it was pretty bad. All 67 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: of the three bags contained mighty debris, grass, bits of frogs, rocks, 68 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: and other random watery debris, but two of the three 69 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: bags contained more. They contained hair, portions of skin with 70 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: bite marks in it, decomposed bits of muscle, crushed up bones, 71 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: some looking like ribs, and some just completely unidentifiable. There 72 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: was there's one intact bone, though, It was the hyoid bone, 73 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: which is the U shaped bone in your neck that 74 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: your neck muscles attached to. So these remains were definitely human. 75 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: The question was who is this individual? We had to 76 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: identify him somehow. We didn't have teeth or anything like that. 77 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: We couldn't get fingerprints, we couldn't get dental X rays 78 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: or radiographic studies because everything was so smashed up, so 79 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: our only option was DNA. There was enough left of 80 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: some of the bones to get bone marrow from it, 81 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: and we sent it off to a DNA lab. The 82 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: DNA lab got comparison DNA from family, and after a 83 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 1: little while they were able to determine that this person 84 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: was indeed the missing fisherman. Question is is how did 85 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: he die. Did he have a heart attack and fall 86 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: in the water and then the alligators ate him. Did 87 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: he purposely jump in the water and taunt the alligators 88 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: causing them to eat him. Did someone hit him over 89 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: the head of a baseball bat and then the alligators 90 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: ate him. There's infinite possibilities. You couldn't really determine how 91 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: he died, so we're only left with the cause of 92 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: death of undetermined and the manner undetermined. But at least 93 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: we were able to identify him. The next case of 94 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: scientific and identification that we'll discuss is again another DNA case. 95 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: In this case is a human head. The head was 96 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: found by a twelve year old Laprador retriever by the 97 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: name of Carly. It was early September and she was 98 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: out playing in a dry creek bed near her neighborhood, 99 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: as she routinely did. She returned home that night with 100 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: her new treasure and laid down on the front porch 101 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 1: to settle in for a good shoe. When her owners 102 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 1: came out to see what she was playing with, to 103 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: their horror, it was a human head. One of the 104 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: newspapers that interviewed the family after the human head was 105 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: found quoted, she gets out and is always bringing things home, 106 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: but this is the weirdest thing she has ever brought 107 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 1: home though. So once they saw the head, they called 108 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: the local police department. Police department came out and was like, well, 109 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: that's a human head, and they brought it to the 110 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: medical examiner's office. And when we did the examination, what 111 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: we found was early had found and intact partially skeletonized 112 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 1: human head. It had remaining dark brown mummifhiede skin on 113 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: one side. The jaw was still attached with dried tissue 114 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: and muscle, but just barely. Most of the teeth were gone, 115 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: the eyes were gone, the nose was gone, the right 116 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: ear was completely gone, and most of the left ear 117 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: was gone as well. There was still some attached, short 118 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: buzzed brown hair, and nothing else came with the head. 119 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: Everything from the neck down was not recovered at that time. 120 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: I was able to pull some of the hairs with 121 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 1: the root shaft, removed a tooth and cut out a 122 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: small portion of skull for submonthing for DNA. The DNA 123 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: lab went about their job extracting DNA from the recovered 124 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: tissues and they entered it into the National Missing and 125 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: Unidentified Person System, or NamUs. The DNA profiles put into 126 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: NamUs then can be matched against other databases, including COTIS 127 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: with a combined DNA index system run by the FBI. 128 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: And sure enough, once all this was done, they got 129 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: a match, and the match turned out to be that 130 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: of a forty one year old escape fugitive that was 131 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: on the US Marshals Service's Top fifteen most wanted list 132 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: at the time he disappeared. He was at a residential 133 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: re entry facility finishing up a thirteen year sentence for 134 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: child sexual assault and possession of child pornography when one 135 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: day he escaped out of an emergency exit and disappeared. 136 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: A few days after he escaped, there was a massive 137 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: rainstorm with intense flooding in the area he was in. 138 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: The theory was as he probably got swept away by 139 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: floodwaters and drowned. He had been missing for six months 140 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: when Carly found him, so he had had plenty of 141 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: time to decompose and become mummified and be pulled apart 142 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: by other scavenging animals or be washed away in the 143 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: creek bed that he was in. That's why no more 144 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: of them had been found. Law enforcement made an attempt 145 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: to find more of them, and they even put a 146 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: tracking collar on Carly to see if she would find more, 147 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: but in that time period, she didn't find any more 148 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: of him, and the law enforcement didn't find anything either. 149 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: Carly wasn't finding anything and the hazards were just too much. 150 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: In fact, all Carli found during that time period was 151 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: a kid's baseball club. The rest of the fugitive was 152 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: never found, but we at least had identified him since 153 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: he was on the US Marshall's Most Wanted List and 154 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: he had been featured on national TV on a show 155 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: called The Hunt. It was decided to have a press 156 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: conference announcing that he was found in what had happened 157 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: to him, and closing the case for the public. At 158 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: this point in my career, I had been a medical 159 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: examiner for over a decade, but I had never been 160 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: involved directly in a press conference. Always been kind of 161 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: on the periphery. But this time, it was going to 162 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: be me talking to the media. The day of the 163 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: press conference, I showed up in my suit, tie in place, 164 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: hair all combed, I was all ready to go. There 165 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:53,359 Speaker 1: was the marshals, the local law enforcement, anthropology, the DNA analysts, 166 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: and myself. But the star of the show was Carly. 167 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: Her owners and Carly were there as well, and everybody 168 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: was excited to see her. Well, who wouldn't be. I 169 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: was excited to see her as well. Really, no one 170 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: cared that anybody else was there other than Carly. The 171 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: press conference began and each group came up and said 172 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: their portion of the story. And the one thing about 173 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: the medical examiner is we're always the end, you know, 174 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: because the guy died, the story ends with us. After all. 175 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: The final two people to talk was a local law 176 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: enforcement and then me. So the DNA analyst had already 177 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: talked about all that they had done to determine who 178 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: he was, so there wasn't much for me to say there. 179 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: So the local law enforcement was just supposed to talk 180 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 1: about their portion of the story where they had identified 181 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: it as a human head and then brought to the 182 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: medical examler's office, but the officer instead decided to also 183 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: tell what the Medical Examiner's Office found, including the cause 184 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: and manner of death, and what they recovered to give 185 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: to the DNA lab. So really he told my entire 186 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: portion of the story. I had nothing to say. I 187 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: was standing there listening to him talk, and I was like, hey, 188 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: you're telling my part of the story. What am I say? 189 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: I was already nervous, my mouth was dry, and I 190 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: was becoming increasingly cold, to the point of shivering, because 191 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: when I get nervous, I get cold. And I really 192 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: didn't have a script or anything to go by, so 193 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: I was just gonna wing it, which was already not 194 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: a good idea. So when I got up to the podium, 195 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: I really had nothing to say, nothing to add. I 196 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: could have literally said well, Dido and sat down, because 197 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: nothing was left for me to say. But instead I said, well, 198 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: law enforcement has already pointed out what the Medical Examiner's 199 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: Office has done, and I will further reinforce the fact 200 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: that the decedent's cause and manner of death is undetermined 201 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: and undetermined because there was not enough recovered of him 202 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: for us to make a scientific conclusion. The press conference ended, 203 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: my portion was edited out. I did get a small 204 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: quote in one of the newspapers basically saying it was undetermined, undetermined, 205 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: and that was it. Still, everybody was excited to see 206 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: the dog, and no one really cared about me, which 207 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: I'm I'm actually okay with. I would just have to say, 208 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: even if you're eaten and partially digested by alligators or 209 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: decompose mummified, and you've been turned into a dog toy, 210 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: we can still identify you. That brings us to the 211 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: end of the episode. I hope you learned something, and 212 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: I hope you were entertained until the next time.