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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie an Samantha, and welcome to Stephan.

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Speaker 1: I never told your protection of iHeart Radio, and in

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Speaker 1: our continuing discussions around abortion, given what's going on here

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Speaker 1: in the United States, UM, we wanted to bring another

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Speaker 1: classic episode we did with bridget Todd on the link

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Speaker 1: between anti abortion groups and anti abortion people and the

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Speaker 1: riot that happened at the US Capital, because I think

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Speaker 1: that's really important, right that we acknowledge, right as well

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Speaker 1: as the fact that this conversation about peaceful protests versus

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Speaker 1: h ryots and violence. UM. And there's a lot of conversation,

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Speaker 1: and we've seen it, we've we've heard it, especially when

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Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter happened, about how this is not how

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Speaker 1: you do things. And then the insurrection happened, and no

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Speaker 1: one really beats an I obviously because it happened at

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Speaker 1: the Capitol. They walked in like literally had plans of

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Speaker 1: possibly going after political officials. And that's not happened here, uh,

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Speaker 1: in any one of the other protests that led to

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Speaker 1: this point. Of course, it has violence has erupted, some

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Speaker 1: buildings damaged and all of this, But the rhetoric of oh,

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Speaker 1: but we're we're pro life, quote anti choice, we would

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Speaker 1: never stoop these tactics and kind of pushing it aside,

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Speaker 1: but finding that actually there's a lot of violence in

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Speaker 1: this anti abortion rhetoric because there's been a link as

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Speaker 1: we talked with Bridget to uh anti abortion activists who

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Speaker 1: have either threatened violence or committed violence towards people of

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Speaker 1: abortion clinics and or going through abortion clinics um to

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Speaker 1: the insurrection, as well as those who are linked with

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Speaker 1: domestic violence. So I think it's really important that those

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Speaker 1: correlations are added up because this whole narrative that one

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Speaker 1: side of the other or less violent is bs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's my blood boils every time I hear a conservative

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Speaker 1: center to be like a peaceful protest on January six,

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Speaker 1: and like, oh know what happened? So people died, people died.

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Speaker 1: Get out of here. I do not want to hear

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Speaker 1: from you ever again. Well on that, please enjoy this

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Speaker 1: classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome

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Speaker 1: to stuff I've never told you, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Today, we are once again joined by our

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Speaker 1: good friend and colleague Bridget Todd. Hello, Bridget, Hello, I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited to be here again. Yes, always a pleasure

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Speaker 1: to have you and Wow, I think we recorded in

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Speaker 1: early December the last time we met up in this

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Speaker 1: virtual podcasting space. And a lot has happened since A

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Speaker 1: lot has happened. Doesn't that feel like it was years ago?

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Speaker 1: It really does. It feels so far and I feels

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Speaker 1: like I have slept a mania nights. There's been a

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Speaker 1: mini a moon set of things have happened. I feel

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Speaker 1: like I've already aged ten years. Yeah, so there's a lot,

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Speaker 1: like I feel like it's it was a lot, yes,

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Speaker 1: And so we wanted to ask you because the topic

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Speaker 1: you're bringing us today is related both to past topics

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Speaker 1: you've talked about, but also too what happened in the

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Speaker 1: capital of the violence at the capital, and since you're

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. We wanted to ask you about it.

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Speaker 1: What was that like? Thank you for asking. It was

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Speaker 1: very odd, as you might imagine. So when I woke

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Speaker 1: up on January six, before I went to bed, I

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Speaker 1: had been watching the numbers come in from the Georgia

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Speaker 1: Senate runoffs and I was feeling very good. I put

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Speaker 1: on my lucky shirt that has a Shirtlely Chisholm look

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Speaker 1: quote on it, and so like you know, I woke

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Speaker 1: up beaming. I remember waking up like good morning. I

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Speaker 1: was so excited, and I think it was because I

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Speaker 1: had not felt that kind of hope and a long time.

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Speaker 1: So I was like feeling very, very hopeful that morning,

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Speaker 1: and it was like a like a power and a

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Speaker 1: hope that I had not felt in I guess the

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Speaker 1: last four years. And how quickly that feeling of hopefulness

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Speaker 1: turned into just powerlessness as I watched, you know, this

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Speaker 1: insurrection happened, and I think that, like I was watching,

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Speaker 1: it happened on television kind of in real time, and

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Speaker 1: so it really got so dark and so serious. So

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Speaker 1: quickly it went from of course, there's just going to

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Speaker 1: be these Trump supporters, you know, standing outside the Capitol protesting,

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Speaker 1: sure to like, oh my god, this is bad. You know,

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Speaker 1: we got you know those things that you get on

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Speaker 1: your phone and there's an amber alert, those like things

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Speaker 1: on your phone. We everybody who was in my house

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Speaker 1: got one of those at the same time from the

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Speaker 1: mayor of d C saying that there was a state

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Speaker 1: of emergency order, there was a curfew, we couldn't go out.

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Speaker 1: It happened very quickly, and yeah, when I watched it

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Speaker 1: I'm always making this point, but DC is my home.

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Speaker 1: I was raised here, this is my community. I've lived here.

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Speaker 1: This is like what I consider home. And I think

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Speaker 1: that because it's where so much of our federal government

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Speaker 1: stuff happens and where the you know, the capital is.

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Speaker 1: People forget that just regular folks live here, Like this

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Speaker 1: is where people live. And so I was really heartbroken

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Speaker 1: by thinking about this as not just an attack on

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Speaker 1: our democracy and on our capital, but also on my community.

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Speaker 1: You know, d C is largely black and brown, and

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Speaker 1: so when these people were storming the capital, I saw

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Speaker 1: videos where after they were storming the capitol, where did

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Speaker 1: they go, Oh, to our restaurants, to our hotels, to

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Speaker 1: our institutions. And just the idea that these people would

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Speaker 1: be kind of unleashed on my community really hurt. And so,

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Speaker 1: you know, I always just got to like make sure

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Speaker 1: that coin gets included that it's not just lawmakers who

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Speaker 1: live in d C. It's real people, some of which

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Speaker 1: have no connection to the government. And so it was

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Speaker 1: not just an attack on our democracy and our capital,

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Speaker 1: was also attack on these people are our home. You know, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I remember because we were all watching closely and knowing

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Speaker 1: that you were my one of my connections in DC.

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Speaker 1: Definitely like following you on Twitter. You actually mentioned like, hey,

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Speaker 1: thanks a lot for bringing in the corona, like not

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Speaker 1: wearing a mask and infecting our city and we were

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Speaker 1: trying to control it, and you just made this bigger

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Speaker 1: disaster because they were not only in your community, at

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Speaker 1: your restaurants, at your hotels, at your places of service,

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Speaker 1: as if this was a free for all, as if

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Speaker 1: nothing were happening, and of course no one was arrested,

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Speaker 1: so therefore they were just out and about doing their thing.

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Speaker 1: I just saw a report saying like a thirty something

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Speaker 1: Capital Police officers tested positives for corona just recently. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I saw you tweeting that. I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: she's so right. I didn't even think of that that

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Speaker 1: part because I'm just looking at the violence. The holy

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Speaker 1: crap is a pandemic, y'all. It's a pandemic, and it's like,

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Speaker 1: we just don't need this, and it totally I think

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Speaker 1: that residents of DC have been pretty compliant when it

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Speaker 1: comes to socially distancing and masking and all that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff, but just we have enough stuff going on

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Speaker 1: as a city. You know, on top of the pandemic

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Speaker 1: and everything else, is it just like one more big

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Speaker 1: thing that we don't need. And I think it's also

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Speaker 1: really hard the fact that d C is not really

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Speaker 1: a state. I think that people just forget, like people

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Speaker 1: don't understand that we don't have the same kind of

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Speaker 1: protections or support that states have because we're not a state.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, when the mayor was trying to

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Speaker 1: get the National Guard to come in, that was delayed

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Speaker 1: because she said, a mayor, she doesn't have that authority,

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Speaker 1: and so she had to get special permission. You know.

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Speaker 1: I think it really illustrated to me how important it

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Speaker 1: is that DC becomes a state at some point, because

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Speaker 1: it just doesn't work. And every other place right now

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Speaker 1: is being ravaged by the pandemic as is d C.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it just doesn't help. We didn't need this.

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Speaker 1: We're already having a tough time the realities of when

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Speaker 1: people decided to do stupid things exactly. Uh, And I'm

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Speaker 1: so glad you're okay. And in the wake of all

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Speaker 1: of this, there's of course been a lot of looking

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Speaker 1: into what happened and what led up to it and

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Speaker 1: the people that were there, and I just remember so

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Speaker 1: clearly you've come on here and spoken a lot about

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Speaker 1: disinformation and misinformation, and you said, like, people forget that

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Speaker 1: these online things have real world consequences, and this was

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Speaker 1: like one of the most I couldn't think of a

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Speaker 1: better example. And we were also been talking about women

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Speaker 1: and Q and on and this very specific kind of

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Speaker 1: like fear around children, and one of the things you

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about today is the anti abortion movement

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Speaker 1: and how that was a part of this whole thing

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Speaker 1: of what happened at the Capitol. Right. Absolutely, I'm grateful

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Speaker 1: that folks like yourself are continuing to pull apart all

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Speaker 1: the different aspects of how we got here, whether it's

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Speaker 1: Q and on targeting women who are concerned about children.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that the connection between the violence

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Speaker 1: that we saw at the capital and the anti abortion

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Speaker 1: movement is just one more of those kind of nuggets

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Speaker 1: that I think we should, you know, not ignore, because

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Speaker 1: there are so many different aspects that got us to

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Speaker 1: January six at the Capitol, and I think that we

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Speaker 1: should be talking about all of them. And I think

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Speaker 1: some of them are easier to go sort of overlooked

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Speaker 1: or a race, and I think the connections to the

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Speaker 1: anti abortion movement is one of them, and so I

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Speaker 1: really have to start by shouting out a couple of people.

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Speaker 1: There is a great piece by Lauren Rankin and Refinery

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Speaker 1: twenty nine called how anti abortion terrorism field the MAGA

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Speaker 1: attack on the Capital really great? Peace cannot recommend it

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Speaker 1: enough And then another investigation by Carter Sherman at Vice

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Speaker 1: called anti abortion activists were all over the Capital riots.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of the information that I have found

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Speaker 1: have come from those two pieces. And I also just

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Speaker 1: have to shout out my friend Renny Bracy Sherman of

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Speaker 1: the organization We Testify. We Testifies an organization that tries

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Speaker 1: to increase representation for people who got abortions, and so

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Speaker 1: they were doing a lot of that work of saying, oh, hey,

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Speaker 1: some of the people we who were at the Capitol,

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Speaker 1: they are very known to you know, abortion providers and

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Speaker 1: abortion activists. And so I really just have to shout

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Speaker 1: out the people who are doing the work to make

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Speaker 1: sure that that conversation s would have we get to

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Speaker 1: have it, and that we don't let stigma or whatever

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Speaker 1: keep us from having this conversation that can really help

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Speaker 1: us understand how we got to the insurrection on the

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Speaker 1: six and then yeah, also just the fact that last

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Speaker 1: week was the forty eight anniversary of Row versus Wade,

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Speaker 1: you know, the landmark Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion in

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Speaker 1: the US, and so on that day, I really was

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Speaker 1: sitting with the fact that the same kind of tactics

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Speaker 1: that abortion advocates have been warning about and screaming about

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Speaker 1: and you know, pointing to for the longest time, those

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Speaker 1: are the same tactics that got us to January six

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Speaker 1: with these people all storming the capital, and they're very,

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Speaker 1: very similar, and they have a lot of overlap. Can

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Speaker 1: you break down this information that led up to this one,

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Speaker 1: but also some of the overlap, because this isn't like

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Speaker 1: a new occurrence of violence within anti abortion movements. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: it is not a new occurrence. So just like the

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Speaker 1: insurrection was kind of fueled by what they're now calling

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Speaker 1: the big lie that Trump won the election and that

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Speaker 1: it was being stolen from him, the anti abortion movement

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Speaker 1: has similarly trafficked in just straight lies about abortion, about

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Speaker 1: people who have them, about abortion providers, And I think

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Speaker 1: it really illustrates what happens when those lines go more

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Speaker 1: or less unchallenged and so you know, when putting together

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Speaker 1: my information of this episode, I was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: some abortion disinformation and misinformation and accuracies are so common

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Speaker 1: that you don't even really think about it anymore. And actually,

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Speaker 1: just last week, the University of California Berkeley School of

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Speaker 1: Public Health put out a study that found that four

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Speaker 1: of the five most presented web pages in response to

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Speaker 1: a search for abortion pill on Google were less than accurate. Right.

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Speaker 1: And so just the idea that on our biggest search engine,

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Speaker 1: when you Google for information about abortion, it is likely

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Speaker 1: that information is a lie, is not true, and it's

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Speaker 1: like misleading, right. And so I think that a big

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Speaker 1: thing to point out here is what happens when fabrications

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Speaker 1: are just tolerated. That that's just like the state of

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Speaker 1: play when it comes to misinformation. And I think also

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Speaker 1: when you look at, you know, the lead up to

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Speaker 1: the election, we saw so much inaccurate information being flooded

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Speaker 1: on social media about Biden and Harris and their positions

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Speaker 1: on abortion. And the thing that's like really sad but

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Speaker 1: also shows how savvy these disinformers can be, is that

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Speaker 1: disinformers know that there is a lack of good news

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Speaker 1: and media sources that are in Spanish, and so they

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Speaker 1: then fill that gap with inaccurate information that is in Spanish.

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Speaker 1: And so you saw the Latin X community being really

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Speaker 1: targeted and inundated by inaccurate, distorted information about abortion meant

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Speaker 1: to impact the outcome of the election. And so another

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Speaker 1: point is that these often are happening in what's App

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Speaker 1: groups that are private, so like unlike Facebook where you

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Speaker 1: can kind of get a sense of like what happening,

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Speaker 1: or Twitter, where it's happening mostly in public. It's a

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Speaker 1: close platform to have, you know, your private what's App

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Speaker 1: group with your aunts and uncles and cousins, right, And

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Speaker 1: so we saw lots of really horrific anti abortion messaging

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Speaker 1: targeting the Latin X community in Spanish speaking communities on

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Speaker 1: these platforms. And so yeah, I think that much like

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Speaker 1: with the insurrection, when you have just an accepted baseline

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Speaker 1: of inaccurate information about people who have abortions, about abortion providers,

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Speaker 1: about underrepresented our marginalized communities, it can actually translate to

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Speaker 1: real world violence, real world danger, real world threats. This

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Speaker 1: is not something that is just happening online. Researchers have

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Speaker 1: been very clear about that. You know, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that I just read and we just know that

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Speaker 1: happened in Kentucky is they past the born alive abortion ban,

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Speaker 1: which is nothing more than a political statement trying to

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Speaker 1: do some fearmongering saying this is what's happening, this is

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Speaker 1: what the Democrats are doing. You see, they're killing the

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Speaker 1: babies after they're born, which is absolutely false. But then

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Speaker 1: we have a narrative where they actually put it into law,

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Speaker 1: so it seems like it's real because like, here's an

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Speaker 1: a moment that's attitude state law. We have to address

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Speaker 1: it as making it illegal because it's happening so much,

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Speaker 1: which is a part of that misinformation that is being

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Speaker 1: thrown out there. But it's so scary, and which is

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Speaker 1: also why this back and forth about this unity and

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Speaker 1: letting people go because you know, they didn't know what

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Speaker 1: they were doing. Trump told them to do it. All

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Speaker 1: this it's this level of giving some kind of meat

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Speaker 1: to this rumor which is completely unfounded, but because it's

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Speaker 1: a political move, it's so scary to see because once

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Speaker 1: again here we go with this misinformation not just being

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Speaker 1: a rumor, not just being an outright lie, which obviously

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Speaker 1: people are believing anyway, how do you see with all

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Speaker 1: of that, with that type of strategy, with that type

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Speaker 1: of fearmong with that's actually part of our government structure,

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Speaker 1: how do you see that bleeding into things like these riots?

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's so incredibly frustrating, Like what you

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Speaker 1: just described. I have worked in the feminist movement and

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Speaker 1: you know, spaces like that for most of my adult life.

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Speaker 1: And it's not new, but it is. It sure is frustrating.

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Speaker 1: You know, when we spend actual resources and time and

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Speaker 1: energy on things that are not true, things are just

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Speaker 1: like fabrications, And I I understand the sentiment. You know,

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Speaker 1: A good example is when Project Veritas put out those

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Speaker 1: videos purporting to show Planned parenthood staffers talking about selling

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Speaker 1: body parts and this and that. That was a fabrication,

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Speaker 1: but yet we still had to spend time and resources

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Speaker 1: combating something that was alive. And I think that you're

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Speaker 1: exactly right that, yes, it's annoying that, like taxpayer money

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Speaker 1: and res verses get spent on making laws or legislation

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Speaker 1: about things that just aren't happening. But even more than that,

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Speaker 1: it's like it takes up so much oxygen in the room,

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Speaker 1: Like what meaningful policies could we be discussing or getting past.

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Speaker 1: What kind of progress are we not able to get

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Speaker 1: too because we were too busy spitting in a circle

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Speaker 1: about something that was a lie. So I think that

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Speaker 1: as much as what you just described is horrible, it's

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Speaker 1: also just it's such a waste because it just takes

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Speaker 1: up so much energy. People have to spend their time

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Speaker 1: combating against things that are just flies. And I think

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Speaker 1: that we really have to get to a place in

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Speaker 1: this country where I'm not gonna say it started with Trump,

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Speaker 1: but he certainly didn't help. I feel like we've gotten

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Speaker 1: to a place where people don't understand that there's lies

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Speaker 1: and there's true and you can have your opinion. There

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Speaker 1: are things where you're like, oh, well, I'm not so

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Speaker 1: sure of course, But at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: some things are just live. But we have a lot

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Speaker 1: facing us as a country. We don't have time or

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Speaker 1: resources to spend on things that are just lies, and

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Speaker 1: we gotta get back to a place where we can

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Speaker 1: all agree like some things are just not true and

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Speaker 1: not worth taking the oxygen out of the room to

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Speaker 1: combat them, you know what I mean. So with that,

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Speaker 1: because of stuff like that, it as another additional need

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Speaker 1: of protection for women specifically, but even men. And of

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Speaker 1: course we can go into the conversation about how anti

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Speaker 1: abortion movement is actually a misogynistic movement in order to

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Speaker 1: control women's bodies. That's the whole conversation we've had before,

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Speaker 1: probably need to have all the times. But when we

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Speaker 1: look at things like this riot, when we look at

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Speaker 1: the people who are actually involved with it, like you said,

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Speaker 1: they were able to pinpoint, Hey, that dude is known

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Speaker 1: for coming to threatened women, that dude is known for

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Speaker 1: harassing women trying to get to an abortion clinic just

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Speaker 1: to have a conversation, or even supporting planned parenthood. How

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Speaker 1: do things like legislation like this feed into movements like

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Speaker 1: this that causes this like violent rhetoric and almost a

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Speaker 1: mob lynching mentality. Yeah, it's a great question. I think

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Speaker 1: it legitimizes them. I think when we treat movements that

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Speaker 1: are not above threatening, violent tactic agitation things like that.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I am a protester, you know, I've been

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Speaker 1: protesting since i've ben a child, So I completely a

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Speaker 1: thousand percent support anyone's free speech and ability to assemble

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Speaker 1: and protest, even if it's per someonthing I don't agree with.

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Speaker 1: That is a protected thing, and I find it to

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Speaker 1: be quite sacred. However, harassing people trying to get to

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Speaker 1: a clinic so that they can't get into the door,

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Speaker 1: that's different. Right, Threatening violence, that's different. And so I

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Speaker 1: think that when lawmakers, public policy officials, folks like that,

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Speaker 1: when they create policy that says, oh, what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: that's okay, Like, okay, we'll put out a law that

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Speaker 1: says this thing that hasn't that is not happening, it's

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Speaker 1: against the law. Now, it's like, I feel like it

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Speaker 1: just legitimizes and emboldens people that they can use these

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Speaker 1: kinds of tactics to get what they want, right, and

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Speaker 1: that's to go back to the insurrection for a moment.

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Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that's been so

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Speaker 1: frustrating in the aftermath of this conversation, people saying things like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you vote to impeach Trump, BETA is

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Speaker 1: going to make them more angry. And it's like we

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Speaker 1: can't have this. It's like like we can't live in

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Speaker 1: a country where we are afraid to do what's needed

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Speaker 1: to be done because people think that it's okay to

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Speaker 1: respond with violence when they don't get their way. It's

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Speaker 1: like that, like we can't have that. A country can't

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Speaker 1: be built on that. Yeah. And going back to this

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Speaker 1: anti abortion movement and its relation to to the insurrection,

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Speaker 1: it's something we've been talking about a lot lately, and

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Speaker 1: I've been on my mind a lot lately. Is how

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Speaker 1: kind of new it is? Like in a lot of

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Speaker 1: ways it's old, but like the strength with the Republican Party,

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Speaker 1: with conservatism and women are people just voting on abortion?

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Speaker 1: And then how like emotional an issue that is for people?

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Speaker 1: And then like you said, all of this like these

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Speaker 1: false facts and disinformation and misinformation, and people who were

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Speaker 1: watching this and who were listening to Trump and watching

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Speaker 1: this like, well, I guess like we didn't know it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a right then, but this thing he was

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Speaker 1: holding and they were saying like, no, this is the

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Speaker 1: anti abortion movement is going to be involved in it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it turns out, yes, can you talk about that? Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly right. So here's what Aaron Matson, the executive

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Speaker 1: director of Reproaction, which they track anti abortion activists, here's

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Speaker 1: what she said. She says anti abortion agitators have been

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Speaker 1: calling and supporting the president. I guess the then president.

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Speaker 1: The President's called the store Washington for some time. I know,

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Speaker 1: and I am confident that as time goes on and

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Speaker 1: more and more these photos are analyzed, but we'll see

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Speaker 1: more overlap between the anti abortion movement and the white

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Speaker 1: supremacists who tried to overthrow the United States of America.

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Speaker 1: And she was completely right. A number of very prominent

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Speaker 1: anti abortion voices were president at the Capitol in June six.

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Speaker 1: And this is not a coincidence. There has been this

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Speaker 1: long standing crossover between the two movements, the anti abortion

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Speaker 1: movement and white supremacist terror movement. Like that is not

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Speaker 1: a new thing. It's gives you all have done such

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Speaker 1: a great job of talking about There's so much to

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Speaker 1: untangle when it comes to, you know, white supremacist movements,

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Speaker 1: anti abortion movements, anti women movements, they're all kind of

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Speaker 1: in the same stuff, mixed bag, I guess you would say.

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Speaker 1: And Vice had a really great rundown of all of

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Speaker 1: the different prominent anti abortion voices who were at the

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Speaker 1: Capitol that day. Abby Johnson, she's one of the nation's

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Speaker 1: highest profile anti abortion activists. Um and she was in

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Speaker 1: d C. She tweeted an image of herself as a

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Speaker 1: Trump rally that preceded uh the invasion of the capital,

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Speaker 1: and she wrote front row with the most pro life

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Speaker 1: president of our country, John Broke Coved, who was a

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Speaker 1: convicted abortion clinic bomber, live streamed himself at the Capitol

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Speaker 1: on January six, as he put it, quote fighting for

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Speaker 1: our beloved President Donald J. Trump. Taylor Hansen, who you

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Speaker 1: might know he got very popular by putting these murals

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Speaker 1: up all over the country that said baby lives matter.

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Speaker 1: He was there. And also Derek Evans, a member of

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Speaker 1: the West Virginia House of Delicates lives in the video

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Speaker 1: of himself in a helmet urging rioters to break into

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Speaker 1: the building, and two years earlier, a court forbid Evans

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Speaker 1: from having any contact with a woman who helped escort

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Speaker 1: patients at West Virginia's Loan abortion clinic after she accused

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Speaker 1: him of regularly standing outside and harassing her. So these

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Speaker 1: are people who have documented histories of a either being

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Speaker 1: very prominent anti abortion voices or b I just showing

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Speaker 1: themselves to not be above threats and violence to push

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Speaker 1: their extreme anti abortion agenda. So it's not a coincidence

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Speaker 1: that these folks also felt that that kind of extremism

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Speaker 1: was an appropriate response to be used in the capital,

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Speaker 1: you know, and you know, as you're talking about specifically Evans,

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Speaker 1: and of course he actually resigned because of people actually

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Speaker 1: be like, hey, oh, this is not good. Let's not

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Speaker 1: have him represent us, which is nice to see, I guess,

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Speaker 1: but he being a violent person who came yelling after

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Speaker 1: and harassed to the point that women were scared. That

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Speaker 1: was one of the other conversations they were having with

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Speaker 1: the anti abortion Many of the people are like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: that dude and he has so much domestic violence. If

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Speaker 1: you look at his rap sheet, that dude is known

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Speaker 1: as being violent towards women. Like all of these things

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Speaker 1: that had shown obvious. Oh, these are the dudes who

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Speaker 1: end up being shooters, Like that's kind of that match

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Speaker 1: shooter conversation, Like, these are the same people who are

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Speaker 1: going after people, going to harass and trying to assassinate candidates.

431
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 1: And we also saw many who were obviously like the

432
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: Proud Boys, who were very racist and we knew they

433
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 1: were racists, and we knew they were white supremacists and

434
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 1: they're proud to be white supremacist, Like you see all

435
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 1: of these people like, oh, those are the Violet who

436
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: are racist and sexist. How do you think that this

437
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 1: type of disinformation led to them being the ones that

438
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: led the riots? I mean, it's a great question. I'm

439
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: not at all surprised. You know, we know that disinformation

440
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: largely impacts underrepresented people. So it largely is fueled by

441
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: these horrible distortions about who we are, whether it's women,

442
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 1: black folks, other communities of color. Desided nation is fueled

443
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:06,199
Speaker 1: by racist, sexist, like the worst racist, sexist imagining of

444
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: who we are, right, that's complete caricatures. And so it

445
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 1: is not surprising to me that these people would be

446
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: fueled by this kind of hateful content and really truly

447
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: believe it. And I think, you know, to your point,

448
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is, I'm happy that Evans resigned.

449
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: That I'm to the point where whenever there's some sort

450
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: of like accountability or consequence, I'm like, oh wow, look

451
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: at that someone faced a consequence. They still have those

452
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: but these are people who have scary backgrounds, right, people

453
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: who have shown themselves to not be above using violence

454
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: to get what they want. And you're exactly right, that

455
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,479
Speaker 1: because we don't take violence against women very seriously. Most times,

456
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: when there's a mass shooter or some sort of mass

457
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: scale violence behind that, there is a trail of people

458
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 1: who tried to sound the alarm, usually women. You know.

459
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 1: I think it was on Christmas Eve, that guy who

460
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 1: he set off a bomb in I wanna say, Tennesse, Yeah, Nashville, Nashville,

461
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 1: thank you. Come to find out his girlfriend previously was like,

462
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: I think he's making a bomb, right, Like, like you

463
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: pretty clearly, you know what it's like. I wish we

464
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: could get to a place where violence against women was disqualifying,

465
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: that like people just didn't let it slide, because it's

466
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 1: so often is an indicator that something else bad is

467
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: going to happen. And I just wish that we lived

468
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: in a world where these kinds of warnings were taken

469
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: seriously instead of being ignored. Right when we talk about

470
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 1: this information happening and we see it being targeted towards

471
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: women specifically, I was kind of shocked to see how

472
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: many women really really dug into Q and on and

473
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 1: the whole, like I have to protect my babies. I

474
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: have to protect my babies. But when it comes down

475
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: to the violence. More often than not, it's the men.

476
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 1: And again, of course we've had this conversation again how

477
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 1: misogyny plays a bigger part of anti abortion movements than

478
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: we know. How do we see that men end up

479
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: taking these kinds of initiatives and owning them I guess

480
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: is the word, and then taking it into such a

481
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: route that it becomes a volatile, bigger movement than what

482
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: is online. So as what I'm saying is like we

483
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: see a lot of qu and no misinformation. And we

484
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: found out that Instagram was one of the biggest of

485
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 1: connections for women, and she using like influencers to talk

486
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: to these women who feel like they need to do

487
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 1: all of these things. But when it comes down to

488
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: like parlor and when it comes down to read it

489
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: and fortune, it's the men and who initiate these like

490
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 1: kind of responses of it. We have to do something,

491
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: let's get armed. And we see that misinformation being bled

492
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 1: into anti abortion movements into the only person who can

493
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: say by country is former President Trump. How do we

494
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: see this information being played out where it becomes such

495
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: a bigger conspiracy theory that it does lead to violence. Wow,

496
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: that's a long winded question. I'm sorry. I mean it's

497
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: a big question. I think that we know that if

498
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: you hear something enough times that people eventually believe it.

499
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: And so the more times that you hear something, the

500
00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 1: more times that you hear a false claim go come

501
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: completely unchecked, people are likely to believe it. I hope

502
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: that this is understood in the spirits, which I mean it.

503
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: People who are out to disiniform, out to cause chaos

504
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: and confusion. They're very smart, and they're very savvy, and

505
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 1: they're very good at it. And I think that the

506
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: dynamic that you just described where they're sort of a

507
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 1: softer version of it for women to get them involved,

508
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: and then a lot of the violence is led by men.

509
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: I think that is a really smart, savvy way to

510
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 1: structure a movement. And somebody once told me, whatever the

511
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: movement is, there's never any kind of movement without women, right,

512
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 1: And so I do think that we have to have

513
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: some tough conversations about the role that women played, because

514
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: one of the first people to die in the insurrection

515
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: was Ashley Babbitt, a woman who had been completely completely

516
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: just like consumed by Q and on conspiracy theories, and

517
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: so I think that you see women sort of being

518
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: indoctrinated to be sort of like the foot soldiers of

519
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: this movement, where men are largely the ones who are

520
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: pushing for violence, like your boogaloo boys and things of

521
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: that nature. That serves a very important function because I

522
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 1: think that if women are feeling like, well, I need

523
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 1: to support this because it's going to keep me feeling safe.

524
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: It's going to keep my position in society. Intact. It's

525
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: a very smart way to have these kinds of conspiracy

526
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: theories be gendered in the way that they are, because

527
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 1: I think it does ensure that, you know, if you're

528
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: a woman who maybe isn't so into the whole politics thing,

529
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: but you know, you don't like the idea of children

530
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: being targeted, so you get wrapped up in Q and on.

531
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: I think that the idea that the men storming the

532
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: capital are going to create safety for you and your children.

533
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: I can understand why that's a seductive message. You know,

534
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: look at the way that Trump message to white suburban

535
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: women all throughout the election, saying things like, oh, if

536
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: you vote for a Biden quote, Antipa is going to

537
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: be at your front door. You know you're gonna have

538
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: riots in your in your streets, you know your kids

539
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: aren't safe. I think that he messaged that way because

540
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: I think it's effective. Everybody wants to be safe, and

541
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: I think it's a really smart way to ensure that

542
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: everybody is bought in. Even if you're not like a

543
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: violent person and you're not going to be the one

544
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: breaking windows and trying to like hunt down members of

545
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: Congress with zip ties, you might be supportive of it

546
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: if you feel that, like that's what the men have

547
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: to do quote unquote to restore order and keep you

548
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: and your family safe. It's very savvy, and part of

549
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: me kind of is not surprised that it works on

550
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: so many women, right. It was interesting to see also,

551
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: like the mothers with their sons. We had at least

552
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: two examples of those, and I was like, which, I know.

553
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: There's been articles about that as well, including the fact

554
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: that one of the young men, who actually is from

555
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: Georgia Blue Ridge, near Minor hometown, blamed his mother in

556
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: the testimony. He actually blamed his mother. What an ask,

557
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it was poor woman and she and she

558
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: was like you know what I'm saying, Like, I mean,

559
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: that really does tell you all you need to know

560
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: right that you know, if you get caught storming the capital,

561
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: that like, oh my mom didn't raise me, right, that

562
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: that would be your first excuse. Honestly, this mom should

563
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: be like, wow, I really didn't do such a hot job.

564
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: I have to wonder what her response was, because all

565
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: I read was his testimony in which he was like, yeah,

566
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: my mom told me to do this, my mom told

567
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: me to pick those up. My mom did this. And

568
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: it was quite funny because I was like, dude, you

569
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: come in here trying to be big masculine, I'm going

570
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: to kidnap these people and then be like, my mama

571
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: did it right, throwing your own mother under the bus.

572
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: And it's funny that you say this because I have

573
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: noticed a lot of these people are being released to

574
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: their parents or in the care of the family members

575
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: and things of that nature. Your point is such a

576
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: good one, where it's like what happened to like, oh,

577
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: we're storming the capital and we're you know, big and

578
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: bad and blah blah blah. And now when you get

579
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, well, I gotta release me to my money.

580
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: I was like, which is it? If you're gonna be

581
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: an insurrection? Is at least I do it with yours,

582
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: but don't you know well, and just coming back to

583
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 1: because I think this is just a simple question I

584
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: do and I don't understand. This is how did the

585
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: anti abortion movement become the center of this riot? Almost

586
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: I think that there's so much overlap between the two

587
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: that I think a lot of these people saw Donald

588
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: Trump as the person who was going to in their eyes,

589
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: restore the rights of children and the unborn right. And

590
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: so it's it's not even the question of like, how

591
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: did it become, I think it was always there. I

592
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: think so many of the people at the forefront of

593
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: the insurrection also did have this history with the anti

594
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: abortion movement. I think it's like the same way that

595
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: you cannot unpack their white supremacist leanings, their anti women leadings,

596
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: their anti immigrant leanings. I think it's all one big

597
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: ball of yarn that led us here. And the fact

598
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: of the matter is you even saw anti abortion groups

599
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: spreading this complete lie that quote Antifa was responsible, even

600
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: though we know that's not true, and that we know

601
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: many of these people live streamed their crimes. You know,

602
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: Kristen Hawkins, who is the head of Students for Life

603
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: of America, which is the nation's biggest anti abortion student group.

604
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: She blamed ANTIFA members and other writers for storming the capital.

605
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: And so you already have the mainstream anti abortion movement

606
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: circling the wagons to protect the violent actions of these people,

607
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: some of whom are probably doing this in support of

608
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: their anti abortion ideology. Yeah, it's so frustrating. I hate

609
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: that when you're like, but it's this video here, they

610
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: can still be like, no, no, So we did see

611
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: just so much racism and sexism on display at this riot,

612
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: and that there were a lot of conversations afterwards, rightfully so,

613
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: comparing the police and like public reaction to Black Lives

614
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: Matter protests versus this riot. And then also you have

615
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: in in this handy outline, you gave us the history

616
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: between abortion clinic violence and how that kind of overlaps

617
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: with what happened. Absolutely so, one of the things I

618
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: think is really interesting about what some of these abortion

619
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: activists and advocates are saying is that the same way

620
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: that many of us, myself included, were disgusted watching the

621
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: police take selfies with the rioters and shake their hands

622
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: and just generally seem very buddy buddy with the rioters.

623
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: That is very similar to what abortion advocates and clinic

624
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: workers have reported when they try to engage the police

625
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: to report violence or threats happening at their clinics. And

626
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: so there's a little piece from refinding between nine, she says.

627
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: In August nineteen seventy nine, a fourt Win, Indiana, abortion

628
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: clinic received a bomb threat. The city refused to dispatch

629
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: either police or fire officials, forcing clinic staff to search

630
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: for the bomb themselves. Nearly forty years later, Becca Ballinger,

631
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: a clinic escort of New York City, called it a

632
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: complaint about protesters violating the fifteen foot buffer zone at

633
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: the clinic. When he arrived, she told her fine. She

634
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: watched the responding officer approached the violator, shake his hand

635
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: and give him a hug. He then turned to the

636
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 1: group of clinic escorts and said, what are you doing

637
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: to restrict their First Amendment rights? Today? And I think

638
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: that one it enraged me. It was like fine this time,

639
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: But I do think it shows the level to which

640
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: the police can sort of not always be counted on

641
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: to be, you know, restoring a public order the same

642
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: way that we saw police be Buddy buddy with the

643
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: rioters at the Capitol. Abortion rights activists have said, like,

644
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: this is not surprising, this is exactly how it is

645
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: when we have called to report threats or violence at clinics.

646
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: And the fact of the matter is the Associated Press

647
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: found that law enforcement agencies nationwide has said that at

648
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: least thirty one officers in twelve states are being scrutinized

649
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 1: by their supervisors for their behavior at the Capitol. Right.

650
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: And so we know that the same way that we

651
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: definitely have a problem with needing to root out people

652
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: that have white supremacist ties who are serving in police forces,

653
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: it is not a stretch to imagine that that is

654
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 1: also a problem when it to anti abortion ideology, that

655
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: police officers they might feel sympathetic to people who would

656
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: be threatening violence at a clinic. Right. And so these

657
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: abortion advocates have been saying, yes, we have been ringing

658
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: the alarm about the fact that the police have seemed

659
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: to be buddy buddy with agitators at our clinics for years. Again,

660
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: it's just one of those things. It's a tough conversation

661
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: to have, but we do need to talk about the

662
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 1: ways that some of these darker forces have infiltrated our police,

663
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: but people who are meant to be restoring order, you know.

664
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: And so I do think we have to have these

665
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: kinds of tough conversations that put these things at the forefront. Yeah,

666
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: And there's such a like we've been talking about with

667
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 1: this like ball of yarn or these vinn diagrams and

668
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: all this overlap, because if you do look at the

669
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: history of abortion clinics like this is this violence and

670
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: threatening of violence has been there for a long time,

671
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 1: like since the beginning, right, Yeah. I mean, anybody who

672
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: has worked in the abortion or reproductive rights space can

673
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: tell you this is not a new problem. And I

674
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: just think we really have to grapple with the fact

675
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: that so many people who work in these spaces have

676
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: been warning that the unchecked spread of distortions and lies

677
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 1: on social media about abortion and about clinics and about

678
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: abortion providers will lead to real world violence. And so

679
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: I just think it's important to note how much overlap

680
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: there was with the violence at the capital and the

681
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: kind of violence that these abortion advocates have been warning

682
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: of for years. Yeah, it's so much. It's so much

683
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,399
Speaker 1: too untangle. As we continue to have these conversations, and

684
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 1: certainly disinformation is a huge part of it. Is there

685
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: anything you want to shout out, any resources you want

686
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 1: to shout out, or I guess what people can be

687
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: looking for. Yeah, I'm sure I've said this on the

688
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: show before, but the never one thing we can all

689
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: do to curb disinformation is not amplify it, even if

690
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: you're trying to dunk on it, even if you've got

691
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: a great joke. Sometimes it can be hard to resist.

692
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: I know it, but don't amplify it. If you folk

693
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: guests instead on kind of creating your own little pocket

694
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: of the Internet that can be known for trustworthy information,

695
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: that it's such a better way to spend your time.

696
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: I think that we all have to really understand the

697
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: way that like this is not just something that's happening online.

698
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: You know, I referenced this great or in rank in

699
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: piece that or finding between nine and folction all read that.

700
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: But she points out that conspiracy theories and outlandish rhetoric

701
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: aren't without consequences, particularly when encouraged by those in power.

702
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: And anti abortion extremist launched a highly visible smear campaign

703
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: against Planned parenthood, featuring doctored videos that accused the organization

704
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: of illegally selling fetal body parts. It was absurdain completely untrue,

705
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: but that didn't stop Congressional Republicans from embracing the conspiracy

706
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: theory to cry and Planned parenthood and opening an investigation

707
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: into the organization. Just a few months later, Robert Dear

708
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: opened fire on a planned planarenthood clinic in Colorado Springs,

709
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: killing three people, including a security guard. He confessed that

710
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: he was quote upset with them performing abortions and selling

711
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: baby parts, a direct reference to the cooked up Enti

712
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: abortion smear campaign, a conspiracy theory that certainly has echoes,

713
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: and other far right conspiracies like Q and on and

714
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: so again, these are not just things people are saying online.

715
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: They can have real world consequences, just like the continued

716
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: repeated lie that Trump won the election and that it

717
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: was being stolen lad to violence with the capital. The

718
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: more that we tolerate just unchecked conspiracy theories and allow

719
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: them to seep into our mainstream institutions like our Congress

720
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 1: and our government, the higher the risk for real world

721
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: danger and real world violence. And so, do not think

722
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: this is just happening online. This is a real thing

723
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: that has real consequences for all of us with that, because,

724
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: as we talked about, they were already putting in laws

725
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: that don't makes us, that are just political games in

726
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: order to continue this rhetoric of lies for anti abortion reasons,

727
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: as well as the fact that even though Trump is gone,

728
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: there still the lie of voter suppression is very well

729
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:57,959
Speaker 1: in play. As in fact, you know, in the state

730
00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: of Georgia, and I think I saw it in the

731
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 1: state of North Carolina kinda they're already vamping up new

732
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: ways to suppress votes. We've got a Republican state lawmakers

733
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: here in Georgia doing new laws to try to take

734
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 1: away from as and T voting, shutting down all the polls.

735
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: So all of this disinformation, like even though it's kind

736
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: of like, okay, we can kind of push it aside

737
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: because Biden's finally in office, this anti abortion rhetoric is

738
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: not gone. Just because we have an actual pro abortion,

739
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: pro choice people in office doesn't mean this fight's not over.

740
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: What can we do as a listeners, What can we

741
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: do as the people behind here as we see it's

742
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: not just online, what can we do in real life

743
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: to help a stop of the spread, but be also

744
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: be an advocate. I think the fact that I forget

745
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: the numbers, but there are a lot of Republicans lawmakers

746
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: right now who to this day will not say that

747
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 1: the election was not stolen. You know, we have kind

748
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 1: of like the idea of quote legal votes has made

749
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 1: it into our lexicon. As if there is a widespread,

750
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: documented pattern of voting a reg aularities in this country.

751
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: There just is not. There are in every election, you

752
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: have people where it's like, oh, I was voting for

753
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: my son who's at college, or this or that. There's

754
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: always a smattering of sketchiness here or there, but there

755
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 1: is not any kind of documented widespread voting our regularities

756
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 1: in this election or in any of our last recent elections.

757
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: Right And so the fact that things like oh well,

758
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: I think we should count legal votes has become part

759
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: of our lexicon and has been sort of seen to

760
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: be kind of a moderate thing. I think has done

761
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 1: such a great disservice to our democracy. I don't think

762
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 1: we will know how bad it is for many years,

763
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 1: you know. I think it planted a seed in a

764
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: lot of people that maybe will never go away. And honestly,

765
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: I think one thing that we could all do is

766
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: just being willing to push back on the echoes of

767
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: these fabrications. So whether you know, if someone says, well,

768
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: I think we should count every legal vote, being willing

769
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:57,919
Speaker 1: to say, like, well, you know, what do you mean

770
00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: by that? You know, tell me, do you think there's

771
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: a lot of legal votes out there? Like what do

772
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: they look like? How often are they happening? I think

773
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,720
Speaker 1: being willing to interrogate these claims so that they cannot

774
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: become part of our fabric of understanding the world because

775
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: they're based on lies. The same way that when people say, like, oh,

776
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 1: did you know that Joe Biden supports abortion up until

777
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: five minutes before delivery, and saying that's not true, that

778
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: it is incorrect. If someone was trying to do an

779
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: abortion five minutes before you were meant to be in labor,

780
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 1: that will be a crime. That's not happening, and that's incorrect.

781
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: This being willing to push back on these ideas that

782
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: are based on nothing in ways that are going to

783
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: actually prevent them from becoming part of the fabric of

784
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 1: how we understand the world because they're based on lies.

785
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: I know that it's a tall order, but we have

786
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: enough in this world to contend with we don't need

787
00:41:46,640 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: more rights. Fair, you know, I just have to ask

788
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: you one last thing, because you have been in it,

789
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 1: and you have been in it, whether physically because you're

790
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 1: in d C or because you're a part of things

791
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: like Ultra Violet and and and talking about this information.

792
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: What have you been doing for yourself for self care?

793
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: Because we haven't asked this question a long time, but

794
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: that's been a part of our m O. So what

795
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: is your self care? Oh my god, I'm so excited

796
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 1: to talk about this. It's funny. It was my mantra

797
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 1: the last two because just like I gotta get to inauguration,

798
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: I gotta get to inauguration, I gotta get to an

799
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: I had not been doing a great job of taking

800
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: care of myself because there was so much after the

801
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: insurrection on the six I think that everybody in my

802
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: little community here in d C was just we just

803
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: had enough. We had just happened. But you know, one

804
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 1: of the things that I do to really keep myself

805
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: grounded and restore myself this really is being outside. And

806
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: so this weekend I went on a lovely hike in

807
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: George Washington National Forest, and it was just very restorative,

808
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: even though it's cold as bald, So just trying to

809
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:06,240
Speaker 1: spend time outside, trying to remember that I can only

810
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: I can only consume so much. I can only do

811
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: so much. You know, if I read every new take

812
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: from what happened in the insurrection or every new horrible

813
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 1: thing that's going on, I won't necessarily be any better

814
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: informed or be any better poise to like make a difference.

815
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 1: And something I can really do to make sure that

816
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: I'm better poised to make a difference is like sleep,

817
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,800
Speaker 1: take care of myself, take breaks, And I encourage everybody

818
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: to do that. You know, it can be enticing to

819
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: want to refresh Twitter a million times a day and

820
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 1: get every new update of every new detail of every

821
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: new story, But that does not necessarily translate to you

822
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 1: being better informed or a better ally or a better

823
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: fighter in this movement. So I appreciate you guys making

824
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: that space to talk about that, because I think it

825
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: does get erased in the movement. That, like taking care

826
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 1: of yourself is very important. I encourage everybody too, It's important.

827
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: What are you too doing. I'm writing fan fiction and

828
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: I got a walking treadmill desk, like a really cheap

829
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: one really cheap. I don't want anyone to be like, wow, no,

830
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: it's very cheap and small, but it's I like it.

831
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: It's is it under your desk right now? No, this

832
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: is my podcast desk, it's under my researches. I use

833
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: two separate spaces. It sounds like you're so rich and

834
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: even if it is a small Okay, well I was

835
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:38,959
Speaker 1: trying to help you out there. Yes, that's what I'm doing. Yeah,

836
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: I honestly I don't know. Look, and that's not because

837
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 1: I'm not doing things. It's mainly because I am so

838
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: just organized with my time, because I am at the

839
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: worst of keeping things separate. So I'll work all the

840
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: time and then just sit all the time too, So

841
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: it's like one or the other. But for me a

842
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 1: lot of like I am a comfort person, so I'll

843
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: rewatch things that I I love and know how it's

844
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: going to turn out, and then bask in that and

845
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: then also a long cuddle times with my dog. Why

846
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: does it feel so good to like rewatch the office

847
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: for the hundred times? Like, like, what is it about

848
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,879
Speaker 1: it that's so comforting? It feels like friends and because

849
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: you know it's coming, you're not gonna be shocked or disappointed,

850
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: or if you're going to be disappointed, you already know

851
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 1: it's going to be disappointing, and sometimes you can fast

852
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: forward through that. Yeah, what's your comfort show? Oh? I

853
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 1: have a few. Supernatural has become one, thank you Annie,

854
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: and I don't know why, but it has become one.

855
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: But also a New Girl, Parks and Wreck have become

856
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: a few of them. I watched the weird things like

857
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: The Flash. I really loved that show, and I just

858
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: love how genuinely sweet it is. So I watched really

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00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: silly things like that, and then I'll rewatch movies like

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00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: you know, Body's Business. I love this. It's like a

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00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: prescription for self care and comfort. Yeah, and also I

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00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,720
Speaker 1: just wear soft pants. That's my other comfort, soft pants,

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00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: dog cuddles, and the television shows you've seen a million

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00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 1: times before us sounds great? Well, Bridget what else do

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00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,919
Speaker 1: you think if we left anything out or if there's

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00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: more that you resources that you want to provide, is

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00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: there anything else you want to add? Well, I would

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00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 1: say if you want to have more conversations about disinformation

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00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: and how it pertains to women and folks of color

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00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: my podcast, there are no girls on the Internet just

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00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: released a brand new series all about disinformation called Disinformed.

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00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 1: You can check it out on this very network I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Awesome. Yeah, and definitely do that listeners. Bridget,

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00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: you want to shout out any any other places that

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00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: the good listeners can find you. Yes, I'm on Twitter

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00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: at Bridget Murray and I'm on Instagram at Bridget Murray

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00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 1: in d C. Well, thank you as always for being here.

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00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 1: You managed to make it a delight even though we're

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00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 1: talking about things that are not so delightfule. It's a skill.

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00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: Thank you. I hope so you know you can. There's

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00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: always room for humor, even if it's gallows humor. There's

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00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: always room for humors. Yes, yes, and we very much

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00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Can't wait till you're back again. Listeners. If

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00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 1: you would like to email as you can emails Stuff

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00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: Media mom Stuff at I heeart media dot com. You

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00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: can find us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You,

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00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always too,

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00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: I was super producer, Christina. Hey Christina, and thanks to

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00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 1: you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You the production

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00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I Heart

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00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: radio visit that I heard you, app Apple podcasts, or

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00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,240
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.