WEBVTT - The Guru of Ojai

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin. Sometime in the eighteen eighties, my great great grandfather

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<v Speaker 1>built a hoveli, a large house in the city of

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<v Speaker 1>Argra in North India. The house had many rooms built

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<v Speaker 1>around a courtyard and a back garden filled with plants

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<v Speaker 1>and trees. Outside there was a bustling market, but behind

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<v Speaker 1>the high walls the house was its own secluded world.

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<v Speaker 1>That world has gone now, but when I was a child,

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<v Speaker 1>that was still there, and whenever we went to visit

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<v Speaker 1>my grandparents in India, we would stay at the hoveli,

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<v Speaker 1>the family home. To me, it was a magical place.

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<v Speaker 1>Tribes of monkeys roamed through the trees and they often

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<v Speaker 1>came into the rooms. You had to sleep with a

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<v Speaker 1>stick beside your bed so you could stop the animals

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<v Speaker 1>from stealing your shoes. Some rooms were no longer used.

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<v Speaker 1>The furniture in them was coated with a thick layer

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<v Speaker 1>of dust. Outside, the toilet block had spiders, which made

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<v Speaker 1>it scary to visit in the night, even with a flashlight.

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<v Speaker 1>There was electricity sometimes, but if you wanted hot water

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<v Speaker 1>for a bath, one of the servants had to heat

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<v Speaker 1>it and bring it to your quarters. A defining moment

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<v Speaker 1>of my childhood was the shame of realizing that another

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<v Speaker 1>little boy just my age had to carry a heavy

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<v Speaker 1>bucket so I could wash. It was a house built

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<v Speaker 1>for a household, a family, and the people who worked

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<v Speaker 1>for them. My great grandfather had loved traditional Indian wrestling.

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<v Speaker 1>When he inherited the house, he built a wrestling pit

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<v Speaker 1>by the servants quarters in the garden. The pit was

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<v Speaker 1>a sandy enclosure where matches could take place. One year,

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<v Speaker 1>when I was eight or nine, a big tournament was

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<v Speaker 1>held there and I was allowed to sit at the

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<v Speaker 1>front of the out as enormous men with impressive curled

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<v Speaker 1>mustaches oiled themselves up and grappled, competing for a prize

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<v Speaker 1>given by my grandfather at the house. When everyone else

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<v Speaker 1>was occupied, I would climb out of the windows and

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<v Speaker 1>walk along ledges high above the street. And one day,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe when I was ten or eleven, I found my

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<v Speaker 1>way into a forgotten room in the compound. It had

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<v Speaker 1>been my great grandfather's study. The shelves held a dusty

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<v Speaker 1>jumble of books and papers. There were old photos, family groups,

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<v Speaker 1>sports teams. A book was lying on the table. I

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<v Speaker 1>only remember it because of the strange title, The Lives

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<v Speaker 1>of al Signy by CW. Ledbetter and Annie bessent Al

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<v Speaker 1>Signy A lcy o ne What did that mean? I

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<v Speaker 1>doubt I read much of the book beyond the title page.

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<v Speaker 1>It was published in twenty four I do remember the

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<v Speaker 1>curious subtitle rents in the Veil of Time. You're listening

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<v Speaker 1>to Into the Zone, a podcast about opposites and how

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<v Speaker 1>borders are never as clear as we think. I'm Harry

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<v Speaker 1>Kunzru and this episode is about gurus and disciples. It's

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<v Speaker 1>about East and West. It's about a young Indian who

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<v Speaker 1>didn't want to be the new Messiah. And it's about

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<v Speaker 1>my family and how they discovered that fighting colonialism might

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<v Speaker 1>involve making contact with being from the astrostra plane. Now

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<v Speaker 1>years later, I know much more about the authors of

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<v Speaker 1>the Lives of Our SciOne. Together they had become the

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<v Speaker 1>leaders of a mystical religion. Their book is a record

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<v Speaker 1>of the past lives of a boy whom they believed

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<v Speaker 1>to be the new Messiah. Why that book was in

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<v Speaker 1>my great grandfather's study is one of the strangest stories

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<v Speaker 1>in my family. It's a story I've only recently begun

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<v Speaker 1>to understand. But first, Young Indiana Jones has a question

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<v Speaker 1>for his dad father. What they, well, Theosophists, believe in

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<v Speaker 1>the commonality of all religions, what they call a brotherhood

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<v Speaker 1>of man. The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones was a

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<v Speaker 1>TV series that ran in the nineteen nineties. It chronicled

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<v Speaker 1>the globetrotting colonial youth of the fictional archaeologist from Raiders

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<v Speaker 1>of the Lost Arc. It's kind of a weird show,

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<v Speaker 1>very preoccupied by intellectual things. Young Indie Jones goes to

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<v Speaker 1>Russia and meets Tolstoy in Vienna. His father takes him

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<v Speaker 1>to the first psychoanalytical comp Friends, where they hang out

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<v Speaker 1>with Freud and hung In one episode, Indie's father has

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<v Speaker 1>been invited to India to give a lecture and they

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<v Speaker 1>attend a meeting of a group called the Theosophical Society.

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<v Speaker 1>They're interested in psychic and supernatural phenomenon. There's even a

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<v Speaker 1>rumor they found them Assia some sort of great spiritual teacher.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe so, though Young Indies Governess dismisses the whole thing

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<v Speaker 1>as flimflam. Anyway, Theosophy is much more than a subplot

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<v Speaker 1>in an obscure televised prequelps. It's one of the strangest

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<v Speaker 1>and most quietly influential religious organizations of modern times. If

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<v Speaker 1>you've ever heard about aura's color therapy, clairvoyance, or spirit guides,

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<v Speaker 1>you have Theosophy to thank. It's behind many of the

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<v Speaker 1>ideas we associate with the New Age movement. Theosophy inspired

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<v Speaker 1>some of the wildest pop culture of the twentieth century.

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<v Speaker 1>The book found in my great grandfather's dusty study was

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<v Speaker 1>the first sign I had that my family had been

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<v Speaker 1>involved in it. It turned out to be woven into

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<v Speaker 1>my life more deeply than I knew. Theosophy starts with

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<v Speaker 1>one of those great self invented people, Madame Helena Blavatsky.

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<v Speaker 1>She was a minor Russian aristocrat, and it's probably significant

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<v Speaker 1>that her mother was a romantic novelist. Though Helena Blavatsky

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<v Speaker 1>herself wrote a number of books, her most stirring tale

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<v Speaker 1>was her own life. She was the heroine of her

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<v Speaker 1>own adventure story. She grew up in a drafty house

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<v Speaker 1>in Ukraine, where her only pastime was curling up in

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<v Speaker 1>the library and reading her grandmother's occult books. At the

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<v Speaker 1>age of seventeen, she married a forty year old man

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<v Speaker 1>who happened to be the vice governor of Yerevan in

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<v Speaker 1>the Caucasus, a wild border region of the Russian Empire.

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<v Speaker 1>Blavatsky's marriage lasted three months, then she ran away. Her

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<v Speaker 1>father sent someone to bring her home, but she gave

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<v Speaker 1>him the slip and did an almost unthinkable thing for

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<v Speaker 1>a seventeen year old rich girl. In eighteen forty eight,

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<v Speaker 1>she made it to the Black Sea, boarded a steamship

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<v Speaker 1>and headed for Constantinople to start a new life. We

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<v Speaker 1>don't exactly know how she supported herself, probably by working

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<v Speaker 1>as a spirit medium. Madame Blavatsky was fond of putting

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<v Speaker 1>her occult knowledge to use, contacting the dead on behalf

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<v Speaker 1>of the living. So far, all I've told you is

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<v Speaker 1>actually true. The rest of Helena Blavatsky's romantic story, well,

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<v Speaker 1>perhaps not so much by her own account. She set

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<v Speaker 1>off around the world looking for secret knowledge. She went

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<v Speaker 1>to Syria, Mexico, Egypt, and India. She was badly wounded

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<v Speaker 1>in a battle fighting alongside Italian revolutionaries. She was shipwrecked.

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<v Speaker 1>She journeyed in a covered wagon across America. She rode

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<v Speaker 1>bareback in a circus. She outwitted secret agents in Central

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<v Speaker 1>Asia and played a major role in the Great Game,

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<v Speaker 1>as people called the geopolitical power struggle between the Russian

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<v Speaker 1>and British empires. Blevatsky climbed the Himalayas and studied in

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<v Speaker 1>a Tibetan Buddhist monastery in London. In eighteen fifty one,

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<v Speaker 1>Blavatsky attended the Great Exhibition in the Crystal Palace. There

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<v Speaker 1>she had a vision of a spirit. This being Master

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<v Speaker 1>Maria explained that he was one of the Great White Brotherhood.

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<v Speaker 1>I know that sounds like a prison game, but the

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<v Speaker 1>brotherhood was. Blevatsky reported a band of super beings who

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<v Speaker 1>sely looked after the earth. From then on, Lavatsky was

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<v Speaker 1>in regular contact with these so called ascended masters. They

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<v Speaker 1>taught her, so, she said, the secrets of the Universe.

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<v Speaker 1>Madame Lavatsky led an extraordinary opiated fever dream of a life.

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<v Speaker 1>At a certain point, In a life like that, it

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<v Speaker 1>becomes obvious that you should start your own religion. She

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<v Speaker 1>called it the Theosophical Society. It aimed to be the

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<v Speaker 1>vanguard of a new kind of universal human brotherhood. Theosophists

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<v Speaker 1>were going to use the combined wisdom of the world's

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<v Speaker 1>religions to discover hitherto unknown laws of nature. They would

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<v Speaker 1>generally help humanity level up, turning us all into spiritual

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<v Speaker 1>supermen and women. If you read theosophical descriptions of the

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<v Speaker 1>ascended Masters, it's kind of like a cosmic boy band.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone has his own look. Jesus and the Buddhera in there,

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<v Speaker 1>but so as Pythagoras and various other guys like Hilarion,

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<v Speaker 1>a sexy Greek who's in charge of science, Kutumi, a

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<v Speaker 1>fair skinned Kashmiri, and of course Maria, the spirit she

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<v Speaker 1>met at the Crystal Palace. He's a flashing eyed Rushput prince.

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<v Speaker 1>A plethora of leading men or for the leading lady,

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<v Speaker 1>Madame Blavatsky. By the time she died in eighteen ninety one,

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<v Speaker 1>her new religion was doing very well. Theosophy was Madame

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<v Speaker 1>Blavatsky's gift at the future. Theosophical wizards and mystics were

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<v Speaker 1>turning up in popular novels, along with shadowy groups like

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<v Speaker 1>the Nine Unknown Men. By the early years of the

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<v Speaker 1>twentieth century, the public was in love with stories about

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<v Speaker 1>teams of beings with superhuman powers and missions to save

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<v Speaker 1>the earth. The ex Men and the Avengers a director

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<v Speaker 1>sentence of the beings in Blavatsky's Pantheon. DC's Green Lantern

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<v Speaker 1>is part of an interstellar law enforcement agency that's like

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<v Speaker 1>a cop version of the Great White Brotherhood. Superheroes are

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<v Speaker 1>one theosophical legacy. Then, of course there's this, so it's

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<v Speaker 1>safe to talk about flying saucers and people from outer space,

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<v Speaker 1>the aliens. This is a news reporter called Jack Webster,

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<v Speaker 1>who had a TV show in Vancouver in the nineteen sixties.

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<v Speaker 1>People who may be circulating among us now, and who

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<v Speaker 1>demonstrate their unearthly qualities if they choose you as one

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<v Speaker 1>of their agents by disappearing and reappearing at will. The

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<v Speaker 1>skeptical Glaswegian Webster is queuing up an interview he did

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<v Speaker 1>with one of the early UFO contacts, a man named

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<v Speaker 1>George van Tassel. Van Tassel ran a private airport out

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<v Speaker 1>in the Mohave Desert at a place called Giant Rock.

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<v Speaker 1>In fifty three, a spacecraft had landed on Van Tassel's runway.

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<v Speaker 1>The aliens, beautiful humans dressed a little like ancient Greeks,

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<v Speaker 1>had shared with him the secret of time travel. I

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<v Speaker 1>say that what is occurring now has occurred before. There's

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<v Speaker 1>many records of these ships landing throughout history, clear back

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<v Speaker 1>into sandscript. When you realize we're dealing with a type

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<v Speaker 1>of man that is almost as far above us and

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<v Speaker 1>intelligence as we are above the lower animals, there is

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<v Speaker 1>an anthing phenomenal in this at all. I researched UFOs

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<v Speaker 1>and Van Tassel in particular for my novel Gods Without Men.

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<v Speaker 1>I discovered that almost all that first generation of contactees,

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<v Speaker 1>people who claimed to have met aliens, were also involved

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<v Speaker 1>in spiritualism or theosophy. One belief system that emerged out

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<v Speaker 1>of the Soup of the West Coast UFO counterculture in

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<v Speaker 1>the nineteen fifties involves the Ashtar galact Command, a team

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<v Speaker 1>of super beings with many names familiar from Madame Lavatsky's pantheon,

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<v Speaker 1>including Hilarion Ku to Me and the Great Beloved Commander

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<v Speaker 1>in Chief Jesus the Christ. The Ashtar Galactic Command is

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<v Speaker 1>still around today. I'll let British color therapist and spiritual

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<v Speaker 1>teacher Hayden Crawford explain more. The Ashtar Command is an

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<v Speaker 1>ethnic group of extraterrestrials, angels, and light beings, plus millions

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<v Speaker 1>of starships, which act as coordinators over the space fleet

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<v Speaker 1>over the Western Hemisphere. They are here to assist humanity

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<v Speaker 1>through the current process of planetary cleansing, polar realignment, and

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<v Speaker 1>ascension into the fifth dimension. I think that's reasonably clear.

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<v Speaker 1>And then there's the Ethereous Society, the group of UFO

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<v Speaker 1>enthusiasts founded in nineteen fifty five by Yogi Guru and

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<v Speaker 1>former cab driver doctor George King. They're headquartered in Hollywood

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<v Speaker 1>and London, but the real work gets done elsewhere. A

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<v Speaker 1>top so called holy mountains like the wind Swept holds

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<v Speaker 1>them down in devon site of their operation prayer Power.

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<v Speaker 1>Picture this a friendly looking group of people, middle aged

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<v Speaker 1>and retired, and dressed in all weather gear in case

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<v Speaker 1>it starts to drizzle, sitting in folding chairs, communing with

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<v Speaker 1>a great beyond. We send out energy from places like

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<v Speaker 1>this to the world as a whole for healing, for peace,

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<v Speaker 1>but we do it in cooperation with being from other planets.

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<v Speaker 1>That's Richard Lawrence, the Ethereous Society's executive secretary. He's interviewed

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<v Speaker 1>in a twenty seventeen documentary by Vice. Right, So, aliens,

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<v Speaker 1>if you like, if you like, Yes, A number of

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<v Speaker 1>the great spiritual figures of history, Buddha Shri krish were

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<v Speaker 1>from other planets. In the documentary, Lawrence gestures to a

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<v Speaker 1>strange object at the center of their circle, the prayer battery.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the size of an old tripod camera, a brightly

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<v Speaker 1>colored box with some cables and straps that definitely does

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<v Speaker 1>not look like a prop in a late night movie.

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<v Speaker 1>Has everybody been given the mantral we're going to use today? Good? Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>that's great, So why don't we prepare ourselves then to

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<v Speaker 1>become channels as the ethereans chant their prayers are stored

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<v Speaker 1>in the battery. Later, this prayer power will be released

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<v Speaker 1>in a jolt of good vibes directed at strife anywhere

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<v Speaker 1>on Earth. In the past, the prayer battery has helped

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<v Speaker 1>clean up oil spills, protected against hurricanes, and even in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty one, kept the Soviet Union from invading Poland.

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<v Speaker 1>Through this world, the prayer battery is a radionic device,

0:16:18.530 --> 0:16:23.490
<v Speaker 1>a physical combination of theosophy and modern engineering. It was

0:16:23.570 --> 0:16:28.250
<v Speaker 1>invented by a British cabby, George King, in nineteen fifty four.

0:16:28.370 --> 0:16:30.810
<v Speaker 1>A voice told King he was going to be the

0:16:30.890 --> 0:16:35.530
<v Speaker 1>representative of the ascended masters on Earth. King was already

0:16:35.610 --> 0:16:38.890
<v Speaker 1>a serious practitioner of yoga. This is long before it

0:16:38.930 --> 0:16:43.250
<v Speaker 1>was a mainstream lifestyle activity. He says, a famous Indian

0:16:43.330 --> 0:16:47.170
<v Speaker 1>yogi walked through his locked door and initiated him into

0:16:47.250 --> 0:16:56.730
<v Speaker 1>certain spiritual secrets. This type of turn from India to mysticism,

0:16:57.010 --> 0:17:00.410
<v Speaker 1>to any number of incredible beliefs was already well worn

0:17:00.570 --> 0:17:03.650
<v Speaker 1>by the time George King and his followers scaled holy

0:17:03.690 --> 0:17:07.650
<v Speaker 1>mountains with their batteries. And it all goes directly back

0:17:08.090 --> 0:17:12.930
<v Speaker 1>to a trip taken long ago by Madame Blavatsky. In

0:17:13.010 --> 0:17:16.810
<v Speaker 1>eighteen seventy nine, records show that Blavatsky arrived on a

0:17:16.890 --> 0:17:21.810
<v Speaker 1>ship into Bombay looking for enlightenment. Her effect on my

0:17:21.930 --> 0:17:40.770
<v Speaker 1>conservative Indian family would turn out to be profound. Madame Blavatsky,

0:17:41.090 --> 0:17:46.210
<v Speaker 1>the founder of Theosophy, came to India to meet Hindu mystics.

0:17:46.250 --> 0:17:49.010
<v Speaker 1>She ended up selling her own brand of mysticism to

0:17:49.050 --> 0:17:54.370
<v Speaker 1>the Indians. In England, they call this bringing coals to Newcastle.

0:17:55.010 --> 0:17:58.250
<v Speaker 1>The Internet tells me that the closest American expression is

0:17:58.650 --> 0:18:03.010
<v Speaker 1>taking sand to the beach, but Madame Blavatsky pulled it off.

0:18:03.570 --> 0:18:08.570
<v Speaker 1>Theosophy became wildly popular in India. Theosophical meetings were one

0:18:08.570 --> 0:18:12.490
<v Speaker 1>of the few places where British and Indians, the colonizers

0:18:12.570 --> 0:18:16.370
<v Speaker 1>and the colonized could meet on equal terms around a

0:18:16.450 --> 0:18:22.850
<v Speaker 1>shared worldview. And because of this, something unforeseen happened. Theosophy

0:18:23.330 --> 0:18:29.890
<v Speaker 1>got political. The cranks and mystics who followed Madame Blavatsky

0:18:30.490 --> 0:18:34.210
<v Speaker 1>got mixed up in the Indian independent struggle against the

0:18:34.250 --> 0:18:39.570
<v Speaker 1>British raj. This is where my great great grandfather comes in.

0:18:40.970 --> 0:18:45.330
<v Speaker 1>Pandit Adjudyanath Kunzru was a lawyer in the city of Argra,

0:18:45.770 --> 0:18:49.050
<v Speaker 1>best known for the taj Mahal. He was from a

0:18:49.050 --> 0:18:52.930
<v Speaker 1>wealthy family of high caste Hindus. In the one picture

0:18:52.970 --> 0:18:55.650
<v Speaker 1>that exists of him, he's younger than I am now,

0:18:56.010 --> 0:19:00.130
<v Speaker 1>maybe in his thirties. He has gentle eyes, but most

0:19:00.130 --> 0:19:02.290
<v Speaker 1>of the rest of his face is obscured by a

0:19:02.410 --> 0:19:07.570
<v Speaker 1>huge hipster beard. Like many educated Indians of his generation,

0:19:08.330 --> 0:19:13.050
<v Speaker 1>my ancestor was torn into directions. When he was seventeen,

0:19:13.650 --> 0:19:17.650
<v Speaker 1>Indian troops rose up against their British officers in Britain.

0:19:17.690 --> 0:19:20.850
<v Speaker 1>This is known as the Indian Mutiny. In India they

0:19:20.850 --> 0:19:25.210
<v Speaker 1>call it the First War of Independence. It was bloodily suppressed,

0:19:25.730 --> 0:19:28.890
<v Speaker 1>and afterwards the British were determined that it wouldn't happen again.

0:19:29.890 --> 0:19:34.010
<v Speaker 1>They set out to create a trustworthy Indian elite educated

0:19:34.050 --> 0:19:37.730
<v Speaker 1>in British style schools and universities with a British curriculum.

0:19:38.410 --> 0:19:42.810
<v Speaker 1>Adjudanath became part of this. He went to a government

0:19:42.890 --> 0:19:46.730
<v Speaker 1>college where he learned English poetry, English history, the dates

0:19:46.770 --> 0:19:50.570
<v Speaker 1>of the Battle of Hastings, and Magna Carta. It was

0:19:50.650 --> 0:19:53.690
<v Speaker 1>drummed into the young men of this Indian elite that

0:19:53.770 --> 0:19:58.930
<v Speaker 1>their own culture was backwards. All English schoolboys knew that

0:19:59.010 --> 0:20:02.770
<v Speaker 1>Indians had barbaric gods with too many heads and arms.

0:20:03.370 --> 0:20:08.410
<v Speaker 1>Indians burned widows on pires. Indians were passive and fatalistic.

0:20:09.250 --> 0:20:13.450
<v Speaker 1>Unlike plucky Victorian Englishmen who had a candu spirit, Indians

0:20:13.450 --> 0:20:15.850
<v Speaker 1>didn't try to change things because the state of the

0:20:15.890 --> 0:20:24.890
<v Speaker 1>world was God's will. My great great grandfather internalized some

0:20:24.970 --> 0:20:28.410
<v Speaker 1>of these feelings. He wished his country were more modern,

0:20:29.170 --> 0:20:33.490
<v Speaker 1>but he also found he couldn't ignore the problems colonialism created.

0:20:34.170 --> 0:20:37.130
<v Speaker 1>Indians had no voice in their own politics, and they

0:20:37.130 --> 0:20:40.050
<v Speaker 1>were barred from joining the civil service that ran the country.

0:20:40.050 --> 0:20:44.570
<v Speaker 1>On behalf of the Empress Queen Victoria English businessmen were

0:20:44.570 --> 0:20:48.010
<v Speaker 1>making vast fortunes in India, but they spent the prophets

0:20:48.010 --> 0:20:53.690
<v Speaker 1>back home. Ajudianath wanted social progress, the education of women,

0:20:54.210 --> 0:20:57.890
<v Speaker 1>the end of child marriage. He was a strict vegetarian

0:20:57.930 --> 0:21:01.610
<v Speaker 1>and was passionate about animal rights. He also became a

0:21:01.730 --> 0:21:04.650
<v Speaker 1>rich man, so he did what rich men do when

0:21:04.650 --> 0:21:08.810
<v Speaker 1>they want to voice their views. He started his own newspaper.

0:21:10.090 --> 0:21:13.690
<v Speaker 1>It was called the Indian Herald. I have a Judynath's

0:21:13.730 --> 0:21:16.250
<v Speaker 1>picture on the wall of my study, but it was

0:21:16.290 --> 0:21:18.730
<v Speaker 1>only while I was researching this podcast that I found

0:21:18.730 --> 0:21:21.530
<v Speaker 1>out that he'd had a newspaper. I couldn't believe it.

0:21:21.810 --> 0:21:24.770
<v Speaker 1>No one in my family had ever mentioned it, though

0:21:24.770 --> 0:21:28.290
<v Speaker 1>perhaps there's a good reason for that. It didn't go

0:21:28.450 --> 0:21:32.850
<v Speaker 1>very well. A Judynath wanted a native English speaker to

0:21:33.010 --> 0:21:37.130
<v Speaker 1>edit the newspaper, and somehow he hired a young itinerant

0:21:37.130 --> 0:21:41.250
<v Speaker 1>American named Francis Marion Crawford, who, as far as I

0:21:41.290 --> 0:21:44.610
<v Speaker 1>can see, was the eighteen seventies equivalent of a hippie backpacker.

0:21:45.450 --> 0:21:49.490
<v Speaker 1>Crawford thought his job as a joke. According to him,

0:21:49.690 --> 0:21:55.090
<v Speaker 1>my ancestors newspaper staff consisted of a baronet, a disqualified jockey,

0:21:55.530 --> 0:22:00.250
<v Speaker 1>a drunken parson, a countess, a bank director, several struggling

0:22:00.290 --> 0:22:04.890
<v Speaker 1>young barristers, and a host of others. The struggling barristers

0:22:04.890 --> 0:22:09.170
<v Speaker 1>would have been a Judynarth's idealistic friends. Whatever really and

0:22:09.330 --> 0:22:12.690
<v Speaker 1>at the Herald, Crawford and my great great grandfather soon

0:22:12.810 --> 0:22:16.410
<v Speaker 1>fell out and the paper had bust. Crawford said the

0:22:16.450 --> 0:22:18.730
<v Speaker 1>Herald lost money because it was too radical for the

0:22:18.810 --> 0:22:23.530
<v Speaker 1>British and not radical enough for the Indian masses. Knowing

0:22:23.570 --> 0:22:26.650
<v Speaker 1>what I do about A Judy Narth's views, that sounds

0:22:26.650 --> 0:22:35.010
<v Speaker 1>about right. Despite his failures as a newspaper proprietor, a

0:22:35.130 --> 0:22:38.490
<v Speaker 1>Judy Narth still wanted to work for his country. His

0:22:38.650 --> 0:22:41.290
<v Speaker 1>chance finally came when he met one of the greatest

0:22:41.290 --> 0:22:46.570
<v Speaker 1>eccentrics of Victorian India, a retired colonial official named Allan

0:22:46.770 --> 0:22:52.450
<v Speaker 1>Octavian Hume. Hume was an obsessive ornithologist who has no

0:22:52.530 --> 0:22:56.610
<v Speaker 1>less than seven birds named after him as Hume's leaf warbler,

0:22:56.970 --> 0:23:00.210
<v Speaker 1>Hume's ground tip, Hume's short towed laugh, and so on.

0:23:01.090 --> 0:23:04.010
<v Speaker 1>But more importantly for the future of India, Hume believed

0:23:04.050 --> 0:23:07.330
<v Speaker 1>it was time for Indians to step up and take control.

0:23:08.210 --> 0:23:12.610
<v Speaker 1>In typical victor in fashion, He expressed himself in verse,

0:23:13.370 --> 0:23:17.570
<v Speaker 1>are he ss or archie freeman, he that grovel in

0:23:17.650 --> 0:23:23.890
<v Speaker 1>the shade in your own hands? Rest the issues by themselves?

0:23:24.290 --> 0:23:30.290
<v Speaker 1>Are nations made? The other thing about Hume, he was

0:23:30.410 --> 0:23:35.210
<v Speaker 1>a theosophist and a close friend of Madame Blavatsky. Through her,

0:23:35.490 --> 0:23:39.370
<v Speaker 1>he had personally received spiritual communication from two of the

0:23:39.410 --> 0:23:44.450
<v Speaker 1>ascended Masters, Kut to me and Maria. The way it worked,

0:23:44.970 --> 0:23:48.170
<v Speaker 1>he wrote letters to the Masters, which Blavatsky placed in

0:23:48.210 --> 0:23:52.890
<v Speaker 1>a special wooden box. From there they dematerialized and were

0:23:53.090 --> 0:23:57.330
<v Speaker 1>fedexed to the higher planes. The answers floated down from

0:23:57.330 --> 0:24:02.010
<v Speaker 1>the ceiling or were found on the recipient's pillow. Though

0:24:02.050 --> 0:24:05.170
<v Speaker 1>this is all rather silly, the Masters gave Hume a

0:24:05.250 --> 0:24:09.330
<v Speaker 1>message that was to have profound political consequences. That told

0:24:09.370 --> 0:24:12.010
<v Speaker 1>him that British India was in danger and it was

0:24:12.130 --> 0:24:15.810
<v Speaker 1>up to him to save it. The cosmic balance between

0:24:15.850 --> 0:24:19.210
<v Speaker 1>East and West had tipped too far toward the western side.

0:24:19.450 --> 0:24:22.050
<v Speaker 1>It was up to him to correct it. How to

0:24:22.170 --> 0:24:29.890
<v Speaker 1>do that by helping Indians gain more power, Hume put

0:24:29.890 --> 0:24:32.730
<v Speaker 1>out a call for fifty good men and true, the

0:24:32.810 --> 0:24:36.450
<v Speaker 1>picked men, the most highly educated of the nation, men

0:24:37.130 --> 0:24:41.770
<v Speaker 1>like my great great grandfather. In eighteen eighty five, Hume

0:24:41.810 --> 0:24:46.290
<v Speaker 1>started an organization called the Indian National Congress. The British

0:24:46.330 --> 0:24:50.810
<v Speaker 1>authorities would instantly have shut down anything national started by Indians,

0:24:51.250 --> 0:24:53.850
<v Speaker 1>but they found it much harder to muzzle the dissenting

0:24:53.850 --> 0:24:57.290
<v Speaker 1>opinions of Allen Octavian Hume, a companion of the Order

0:24:57.330 --> 0:25:00.290
<v Speaker 1>of the Bath and a distinguished member of the Imperial

0:25:00.370 --> 0:25:04.450
<v Speaker 1>Civil Service. In eighteen eighty eight, the Congress met in

0:25:04.490 --> 0:25:07.850
<v Speaker 1>Allahabad near Agra. I have a copy of the speech

0:25:07.970 --> 0:25:10.490
<v Speaker 1>my great great grand father gave At the opening of

0:25:10.490 --> 0:25:15.170
<v Speaker 1>the Congress. He defends his friend Hume. We mean to

0:25:15.330 --> 0:25:18.650
<v Speaker 1>stick to mister Hume to the last, he says. His

0:25:18.770 --> 0:25:22.730
<v Speaker 1>advice to us has always been loyalty and moderation, and

0:25:22.890 --> 0:25:27.090
<v Speaker 1>yet he's been stigmatized as the most seditious man in India.

0:25:27.570 --> 0:25:32.010
<v Speaker 1>A judianath affirms his loyalty to Queen Victoria. He points

0:25:32.010 --> 0:25:34.690
<v Speaker 1>out that the Congress is only asking for the same

0:25:34.770 --> 0:25:38.690
<v Speaker 1>rights as other subjects of the English Crown. There's also

0:25:38.770 --> 0:25:42.810
<v Speaker 1>a defiant note. You know the strength of the opposition,

0:25:43.050 --> 0:25:46.650
<v Speaker 1>he says, and you also know that it is fast

0:25:46.770 --> 0:25:50.090
<v Speaker 1>losing its power for evil and dying out. As all

0:25:50.330 --> 0:25:56.730
<v Speaker 1>unrighteous things sooner or later die. A Judianath had been

0:25:56.770 --> 0:26:01.090
<v Speaker 1>influenced by Hume in more than politics. He had begun

0:26:01.130 --> 0:26:07.610
<v Speaker 1>attending meetings of the Theosophical Society. He was still a

0:26:07.650 --> 0:26:12.610
<v Speaker 1>relatively young man, only fifty two when he died suddenly

0:26:12.690 --> 0:26:17.490
<v Speaker 1>of influenza. He left an intellectual legacy for his children,

0:26:17.530 --> 0:26:22.690
<v Speaker 1>who all became ardent nationalists. Madame Blavatsky died at about

0:26:22.730 --> 0:26:26.890
<v Speaker 1>the same time as Adjudynath, also of the flu Leadership

0:26:26.930 --> 0:26:30.010
<v Speaker 1>of the Theosophical Society passed into the hands of another

0:26:30.130 --> 0:26:35.650
<v Speaker 1>charismatic woman, Annie Bessant. She'd been a labor organizer in London,

0:26:36.410 --> 0:26:39.370
<v Speaker 1>leading a famous strike of young women and girls working

0:26:39.410 --> 0:26:44.330
<v Speaker 1>in terrible conditions at a factory making matches. Later, Bessant

0:26:44.330 --> 0:26:48.650
<v Speaker 1>became a disciple of Madame Blavatsky and traveled to India.

0:26:48.770 --> 0:26:52.050
<v Speaker 1>She took over the Theosophical Society with a lapsed Anglican

0:26:52.130 --> 0:26:56.850
<v Speaker 1>priest called Charles Ledbetter. Led Better and Bessant with the

0:26:56.970 --> 0:27:01.250
<v Speaker 1>oddest of odd couples, the fiery radical leader of the

0:27:01.290 --> 0:27:05.410
<v Speaker 1>London match girl's strike and the former curate of Bramshott Village,

0:27:05.730 --> 0:27:10.370
<v Speaker 1>who started talking to spirits and then ran off to Asia.

0:27:15.330 --> 0:27:19.770
<v Speaker 1>One day in nineteen o nine, Ledbetter was walking on

0:27:19.810 --> 0:27:23.890
<v Speaker 1>the beach when he saw a young boy who had,

0:27:23.930 --> 0:27:27.690
<v Speaker 1>he wrote, the most wonderful aura he had ever seen,

0:27:28.090 --> 0:27:32.970
<v Speaker 1>without a particle of selfishness in it. The boy's mother

0:27:33.170 --> 0:27:37.650
<v Speaker 1>was dead, his father was very poor, and for whatever

0:27:37.770 --> 0:27:41.290
<v Speaker 1>reason led Better became convinced that in this boy he

0:27:41.370 --> 0:27:49.850
<v Speaker 1>had found the world teacher, the new Messiah. Not everyone agreed.

0:27:50.650 --> 0:27:53.850
<v Speaker 1>At least one other, Theosophus described the child as dimwitted.

0:27:55.170 --> 0:27:59.450
<v Speaker 1>And then there was the other issue. Ledbetter had already

0:27:59.490 --> 0:28:02.650
<v Speaker 1>been expelled once from the Theosophical Society because of his

0:28:02.730 --> 0:28:08.170
<v Speaker 1>sexual interest in young boys. The boy, Judu Krishna Murty,

0:28:08.490 --> 0:28:13.170
<v Speaker 1>was very ansom. Early photos emphasized his fine features and

0:28:13.330 --> 0:28:18.250
<v Speaker 1>soulful eyes. Very quickly led Better ascribed to him dozens

0:28:18.290 --> 0:28:23.690
<v Speaker 1>of past lives. Somehow, Krishnamote's family agreed that he and

0:28:23.810 --> 0:28:27.250
<v Speaker 1>his brother Nietzsya should go and live at the Theosophical

0:28:27.290 --> 0:28:32.330
<v Speaker 1>compound in Adhya. There, led Better and Besson would tue

0:28:32.370 --> 0:28:35.490
<v Speaker 1>to them and do further research into their past lives,

0:28:35.890 --> 0:28:40.370
<v Speaker 1>which apparently stretched back twenty five thousand years from India

0:28:40.450 --> 0:28:44.810
<v Speaker 1>to the lost continent of Atlantis. Krishnamoty was given a

0:28:45.010 --> 0:28:49.850
<v Speaker 1>star name. He was Alcyone, the central star in the

0:28:49.930 --> 0:28:54.290
<v Speaker 1>Pleiades constellation. Led Better began to publish an account of

0:28:54.370 --> 0:28:59.370
<v Speaker 1>Krishnamurti's lives in a theosophical magazine. Eventually they were collected

0:28:59.410 --> 0:29:03.330
<v Speaker 1>together into a book, a sort of reincarnation soap opera,

0:29:03.450 --> 0:29:07.650
<v Speaker 1>in which all the characters were previous incarnations of senior Theosophists.

0:29:08.490 --> 0:29:13.090
<v Speaker 1>It was this book, The Lives of Alcione, that I

0:29:13.250 --> 0:29:16.370
<v Speaker 1>found in my great grandfather's study when I was a boy.

0:29:17.850 --> 0:29:21.010
<v Speaker 1>To me, the real life of Krishna Murty is more

0:29:21.090 --> 0:29:24.570
<v Speaker 1>interesting and affecting than the stories in the Lives of Alsiony.

0:29:25.690 --> 0:29:29.170
<v Speaker 1>Annie Bessent and Charles led Better became the legal guardians

0:29:29.170 --> 0:29:32.290
<v Speaker 1>of Krishna Mute and his brother Nitsya, even fighting a

0:29:32.330 --> 0:29:37.170
<v Speaker 1>court case against their father. The Theosophists formed an organization,

0:29:37.570 --> 0:29:40.730
<v Speaker 1>the Order of the Star in the East, to promote

0:29:40.770 --> 0:29:44.530
<v Speaker 1>their young messiah. Krishna Murty was dressed in tailored suits

0:29:44.530 --> 0:29:47.770
<v Speaker 1>from saval Row and plans were made to send him

0:29:47.770 --> 0:29:52.930
<v Speaker 1>to Oxford. Christna Murty turned out not to be very academic,

0:29:53.250 --> 0:29:56.930
<v Speaker 1>so the Oxford plan was dropped, though he himself was

0:29:56.970 --> 0:30:00.890
<v Speaker 1>one of the ascended Masters, he never could hold a

0:30:00.930 --> 0:30:07.250
<v Speaker 1>lot of the complex teachings in his head. In nineteen fifteen,

0:30:07.330 --> 0:30:11.530
<v Speaker 1>Charles led Better left India run the Theosophical Society in Australia,

0:30:11.690 --> 0:30:15.650
<v Speaker 1>where it was very popular. Chrishnamurtiu was relieved to see

0:30:15.730 --> 0:30:20.250
<v Speaker 1>him go. Annie Bessant, who became a sort of substitute mother,

0:30:20.770 --> 0:30:25.730
<v Speaker 1>combined her mystical interests with support for Indian independence. In

0:30:25.770 --> 0:30:28.690
<v Speaker 1>the days when Hume was advising my great great grandfather,

0:30:29.210 --> 0:30:33.650
<v Speaker 1>the ascended Masters, speaking through mystical letters seemed to be

0:30:33.690 --> 0:30:37.370
<v Speaker 1>in favor of loyalty to the Crown. Now the Masters

0:30:37.370 --> 0:30:41.370
<v Speaker 1>were sending messages from the astral plane enthusiastically supporting the

0:30:41.450 --> 0:30:47.370
<v Speaker 1>corps for the British to quit India. Enter my great grandfather,

0:30:47.570 --> 0:30:51.530
<v Speaker 1>rajnas the wrestling fan, whose copy of Bessend and Ledbetter's

0:30:51.570 --> 0:30:55.530
<v Speaker 1>book I found in our old house. In nineteen sixteen,

0:30:55.850 --> 0:30:59.410
<v Speaker 1>Rajnath was a delegate at the Indian National Congress along

0:30:59.410 --> 0:31:03.010
<v Speaker 1>with both his brothers. The following year, Annie Bessant was

0:31:03.050 --> 0:31:07.170
<v Speaker 1>elected as the chair. The Congress was gradually turning from

0:31:07.210 --> 0:31:12.330
<v Speaker 1>an elite talking shop into a serious independence movement. By

0:31:12.330 --> 0:31:15.690
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen twenties did the Krishna Murty, or just Kay

0:31:15.810 --> 0:31:19.330
<v Speaker 1>as his followers called him, was traveling the world with Bessant,

0:31:19.690 --> 0:31:26.130
<v Speaker 1>mixing in high society. Kay had become a startlingly handsome

0:31:26.170 --> 0:31:29.210
<v Speaker 1>young man with a long, straight nose and sweat back hair.

0:31:30.250 --> 0:31:32.450
<v Speaker 1>The Order of the Star of the East was now

0:31:32.850 --> 0:31:40.810
<v Speaker 1>very wealthy. Thousands of people came to hear Kay speak.

0:31:44.890 --> 0:31:48.930
<v Speaker 1>Sometime in early December nineteen twenty two, Krishna Murty and

0:31:48.930 --> 0:31:52.290
<v Speaker 1>Annie Bessant were on a whistle stock tour of India.

0:31:52.490 --> 0:31:55.450
<v Speaker 1>Kay hadn't been home for several years. He stayed the

0:31:55.570 --> 0:31:58.930
<v Speaker 1>night in Argre and according to my family, it was

0:31:59.010 --> 0:32:03.170
<v Speaker 1>our house that he stayed in. This was always spoken

0:32:03.210 --> 0:32:05.490
<v Speaker 1>of as a great event, and it seems to have

0:32:05.530 --> 0:32:11.050
<v Speaker 1>cemented Rajnath's loyalty to Theosophy. But though Krishna Moote was

0:32:11.050 --> 0:32:15.250
<v Speaker 1>becoming world famous, there were signs that the new Messiah

0:32:15.330 --> 0:32:38.410
<v Speaker 1>was contemplating his own independence movement. In the early nineteen twenties,

0:32:38.970 --> 0:32:44.490
<v Speaker 1>Krishnamote's younger brother, Nietya, fell ill with tuberculosis. A theosophist

0:32:44.570 --> 0:32:47.650
<v Speaker 1>offered a cottage in Ohi up in the hills north

0:32:47.650 --> 0:32:51.410
<v Speaker 1>of Los Angeles. The healthy climate of California would be

0:32:51.450 --> 0:32:55.730
<v Speaker 1>perfect for his recovery. In nineteen twenty five, Kay left

0:32:55.770 --> 0:32:59.170
<v Speaker 1>his brother Nietya in Ohi, though Nietya was gravely ill.

0:33:00.170 --> 0:33:02.650
<v Speaker 1>Reluctantly a Kay was on his way back to India

0:33:02.730 --> 0:33:05.250
<v Speaker 1>to attend a massive rally of the Order of the Star.

0:33:06.050 --> 0:33:11.730
<v Speaker 1>He stopped in England, where he met Senior Theosophist aboard ship.

0:33:11.770 --> 0:33:16.210
<v Speaker 1>At port side, he received a telegram saying Nietzsche had died.

0:33:18.410 --> 0:33:22.010
<v Speaker 1>Kay locked himself in his cabin and didn't emerge for

0:33:22.090 --> 0:33:28.450
<v Speaker 1>some days. Much later, in an interview, Kay revealed that

0:33:28.490 --> 0:33:31.130
<v Speaker 1>the English members had told him that if he accepted

0:33:31.170 --> 0:33:35.730
<v Speaker 1>them as disciples, his brother would recover. What a joke

0:33:35.890 --> 0:33:39.570
<v Speaker 1>he thought. Though he went on to India, this moment

0:33:39.690 --> 0:33:42.610
<v Speaker 1>was the beginning of a total disillusionment with the movement

0:33:43.170 --> 0:33:50.170
<v Speaker 1>and his role as the Messiah. Still, by nineteen twenty nine,

0:33:50.770 --> 0:33:53.450
<v Speaker 1>Theosophy seemed as if it might turn into a global

0:33:53.570 --> 0:33:58.530
<v Speaker 1>spiritualist church. The Theosophists arranged a big meeting at Omen

0:33:58.690 --> 0:34:01.250
<v Speaker 1>in the Netherlands, where the Order of the Star had

0:34:01.290 --> 0:34:05.930
<v Speaker 1>its headquarters. A wealthy Dutch donor had given them a castle.

0:34:06.650 --> 0:34:10.050
<v Speaker 1>It was there rumor had it that would announce the

0:34:10.130 --> 0:34:15.610
<v Speaker 1>names of twelve disciples, just like Jesus had. That is,

0:34:15.650 --> 0:34:20.650
<v Speaker 1>whatever Vanard the wall is attempting to rue truth, he

0:34:20.690 --> 0:34:24.890
<v Speaker 1>is lettered down LaMDA plating for those who are weak.

0:34:27.250 --> 0:34:32.050
<v Speaker 1>But there was a problem. Kay hadn't chosen anybody. The

0:34:32.170 --> 0:34:34.730
<v Speaker 1>list had been cooked up by Bessant and some other

0:34:34.810 --> 0:34:40.690
<v Speaker 1>senior theosophists. Conveniently, their names were all on it. Kay

0:34:40.810 --> 0:34:44.570
<v Speaker 1>told Bessant that he wouldn't cooperate, that he found their

0:34:44.650 --> 0:34:50.170
<v Speaker 1>vanity absurd and disgusting. There's a photo of Christna Murty

0:34:50.250 --> 0:34:55.610
<v Speaker 1>with Annie Besson opening the ceremony. They both look unhappy.

0:34:55.810 --> 0:34:58.250
<v Speaker 1>Bessant is an old lady by this point, and she's

0:34:58.290 --> 0:35:02.210
<v Speaker 1>dressed up like a Christmas tree with mystical embroidered robes

0:35:02.250 --> 0:35:05.290
<v Speaker 1>and a mess of necklaces and pendants hanging around her neck.

0:35:06.250 --> 0:35:10.690
<v Speaker 1>Christia Murty Movie Stars Suave has impeccably tailored double breasted

0:35:10.730 --> 0:35:15.530
<v Speaker 1>jacket and a fashionably casual open necked shirt, and he

0:35:15.610 --> 0:35:19.050
<v Speaker 1>bescent knows what's about to happen. Chrishna Murty gets up

0:35:19.090 --> 0:35:24.570
<v Speaker 1>on stage and he drops the bomb. He tells the

0:35:24.610 --> 0:35:29.130
<v Speaker 1>assembled crowd that he's not the Messiah. He doesn't want

0:35:29.170 --> 0:35:36.970
<v Speaker 1>any disciples. Theosophy is a sham. The speech wasn't recorded

0:35:37.010 --> 0:35:40.130
<v Speaker 1>at the time, but later on Kay was persuaded to

0:35:40.130 --> 0:35:45.850
<v Speaker 1>repeat it for a newsreel crew. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned,

0:35:46.530 --> 0:35:52.730
<v Speaker 1>unapproachable by any part whatsoever, cannot be organized, nor should

0:35:52.730 --> 0:35:58.610
<v Speaker 1>any organization deform to lead or cause people along in

0:35:58.690 --> 0:36:03.410
<v Speaker 1>a particular path. Christna Murty says, you can't find truth

0:36:03.530 --> 0:36:06.970
<v Speaker 1>by following leaders. You have to find it for yourself.

0:36:07.770 --> 0:36:13.370
<v Speaker 1>He's giving back the castle and disbanding the organization. The

0:36:13.370 --> 0:36:18.410
<v Speaker 1>Theosophists are at Paul Ledbetter, the old pedophile who found

0:36:18.410 --> 0:36:21.570
<v Speaker 1>the beautiful boy on the beach, splutters that the coming

0:36:21.690 --> 0:36:35.730
<v Speaker 1>has gone wrong. What did Krishnamurti do? Once he'd walked

0:36:35.770 --> 0:36:40.530
<v Speaker 1>away from being the Messiah? He went to California. He

0:36:40.650 --> 0:36:43.130
<v Speaker 1>settled in Ohio and made his home there for the

0:36:43.130 --> 0:36:47.370
<v Speaker 1>rest of his life. He never stopped writing and giving talks.

0:36:48.210 --> 0:36:50.530
<v Speaker 1>His presence in Ohio became one of the seeds for

0:36:50.570 --> 0:36:53.450
<v Speaker 1>the West Coast counterculture that grew up in the fifties

0:36:53.450 --> 0:36:57.490
<v Speaker 1>and sixties, a fusion of East and West that secretly

0:36:57.530 --> 0:37:02.690
<v Speaker 1>owes so much to Madame Lavatsky and the Theosophists. The

0:37:02.770 --> 0:37:06.290
<v Speaker 1>Ohi cottage is pretty modest. He can't help feeling that

0:37:06.330 --> 0:37:09.170
<v Speaker 1>it was a reaction to the pomp and circumstance of

0:37:09.250 --> 0:37:14.090
<v Speaker 1>his days in theosophy. Kay certainly wasn't a hermit. But

0:37:14.210 --> 0:37:18.090
<v Speaker 1>though Christian Murty always had famous friends and followers, from

0:37:18.170 --> 0:37:22.050
<v Speaker 1>Langston Hughes to Van Morrison, the trajectory of his life

0:37:22.210 --> 0:37:29.730
<v Speaker 1>was towards quietness and meditation. Since the famous pepper tree

0:37:29.810 --> 0:37:35.730
<v Speaker 1>that in the mid nineteen twenties that he sat under,

0:37:35.810 --> 0:37:38.170
<v Speaker 1>and he kind of came to some kind of understanding

0:37:38.850 --> 0:37:42.090
<v Speaker 1>or opening. This is Christie Lee, who helps run the

0:37:42.130 --> 0:37:45.290
<v Speaker 1>Christian Murty Center in Ohio. It fell at a certain

0:37:45.330 --> 0:37:48.170
<v Speaker 1>point and we thought it had died, but obviously it's

0:37:48.170 --> 0:37:52.010
<v Speaker 1>you know, gave back roots. This needs actually the same tree.

0:37:52.690 --> 0:37:56.290
<v Speaker 1>So the stump of the pepper tree is taller than

0:37:56.330 --> 0:37:59.010
<v Speaker 1>I am, and it shoots out like a branch, a

0:37:59.050 --> 0:38:03.930
<v Speaker 1>fully mature, beautiful tree with a canopy of shade. There

0:38:04.050 --> 0:38:07.930
<v Speaker 1>was such profound calmness, both in the air and within myself,

0:38:08.090 --> 0:38:11.770
<v Speaker 1>Christian Murty wrote, the calmness of the bottom of a deep,

0:38:11.970 --> 0:38:16.890
<v Speaker 1>unfathomable lake. Like the lake I felt, my physical body,

0:38:17.170 --> 0:38:20.810
<v Speaker 1>with its mind and emotions, could be ruffled on the surface.

0:38:21.330 --> 0:38:25.850
<v Speaker 1>But nothing, nay, nothing could disturb the calmness of my soul.

0:38:28.370 --> 0:38:33.330
<v Speaker 1>In Ojai Kay completed his transformation from a beautiful, rather vague,

0:38:33.370 --> 0:38:38.770
<v Speaker 1>young dandy into a profound thinker. Christie Lee's husband, Up Sloater,

0:38:38.970 --> 0:38:42.850
<v Speaker 1>directs the Christian emoti Foundation of America. I asked him

0:38:42.890 --> 0:38:48.370
<v Speaker 1>how he'd characterized Kay's teachings. Unlike theosophy, there's no complicated

0:38:48.450 --> 0:38:54.050
<v Speaker 1>metaphysical system, no rituals, no trances or incantations. He was

0:38:54.250 --> 0:38:56.890
<v Speaker 1>constantly saying, look at yourself, look at what luke, at

0:38:56.890 --> 0:39:01.370
<v Speaker 1>your thinking, at your thoughts, See how you're building up images.

0:39:01.410 --> 0:39:03.810
<v Speaker 1>See how your consciousness is put together, and see how

0:39:04.610 --> 0:39:07.210
<v Speaker 1>your consciousness is similar to other people's consciousness. And see

0:39:07.250 --> 0:39:10.170
<v Speaker 1>how that's the root of all conflicting in society and

0:39:10.250 --> 0:39:13.410
<v Speaker 1>conflict inside you, under your root of human suffering. Another

0:39:13.410 --> 0:39:16.570
<v Speaker 1>person who works at OHIO is Michael Kronin, who used

0:39:16.570 --> 0:39:19.850
<v Speaker 1>to be Christiana Murty's personal chef. He would hear Kay

0:39:19.970 --> 0:39:24.050
<v Speaker 1>rail against organized religion a lot. He said, Look, I'm

0:39:24.090 --> 0:39:28.210
<v Speaker 1>not starting a new religion. This is not a new religion.

0:39:28.450 --> 0:39:33.050
<v Speaker 1>I am not an authority, you know. I'm not having

0:39:33.810 --> 0:39:38.250
<v Speaker 1>sacred scriptures or any of that. The only thing that

0:39:38.530 --> 0:39:47.130
<v Speaker 1>approaches what you might call a device is observe. Observe yourself,

0:39:47.330 --> 0:39:52.850
<v Speaker 1>be aware of your own reactions, be aware of how

0:39:52.970 --> 0:39:58.290
<v Speaker 1>you are conditioned. This feels intuitively right to me. I

0:39:58.330 --> 0:40:01.890
<v Speaker 1>feel a connection to Christiana Murty. Partly it is because

0:40:01.890 --> 0:40:04.370
<v Speaker 1>I admire what he did, how he had the courage

0:40:04.410 --> 0:40:08.450
<v Speaker 1>to be simple, to reject or the messianic flimflam of theosophy.

0:40:09.210 --> 0:40:11.330
<v Speaker 1>But my sense of connection also goes back to something

0:40:11.410 --> 0:40:15.770
<v Speaker 1>much simpler. Listen for a moment to Krishna Murty's accent

0:40:16.050 --> 0:40:19.050
<v Speaker 1>as he reads out his speech disbanding the Order of

0:40:19.090 --> 0:40:22.770
<v Speaker 1>the Star. I am concerning myself with the only one

0:40:22.890 --> 0:40:28.250
<v Speaker 1>essential thing, the true freedom of man. I would help

0:40:28.330 --> 0:40:33.370
<v Speaker 1>him to break away from all limititians. That clipped, old

0:40:33.450 --> 0:40:37.730
<v Speaker 1>fashioned accent of K's that's very familiar to me. I

0:40:37.850 --> 0:40:40.690
<v Speaker 1>heard it in the mouths of older Indian men, men

0:40:40.810 --> 0:40:44.490
<v Speaker 1>of my grandfather's generation, who had been taught English by

0:40:44.530 --> 0:40:47.890
<v Speaker 1>British teachers in the last days of the raj. I

0:40:47.970 --> 0:40:50.970
<v Speaker 1>remember being startled once when I was at the house

0:40:51.010 --> 0:40:54.370
<v Speaker 1>in Arga. An old man, a friend of my grandfather,

0:40:54.450 --> 0:40:57.890
<v Speaker 1>came walking toward me, supporting himself with a stick. He

0:40:58.010 --> 0:41:00.250
<v Speaker 1>was dressed in a shawl and a lungi with a

0:41:00.290 --> 0:41:04.690
<v Speaker 1>cap on his head. Hello, he said, you don't happen

0:41:04.770 --> 0:41:08.610
<v Speaker 1>to know the latest score in the cricket that East

0:41:08.690 --> 0:41:14.610
<v Speaker 1>west accent. I didn't understand until recently how marked my

0:41:14.650 --> 0:41:19.290
<v Speaker 1>family had been by theosophy. Various older relatives were astrologers

0:41:19.330 --> 0:41:23.050
<v Speaker 1>and homeopaths. I have an uncle who's a retired army

0:41:23.090 --> 0:41:26.370
<v Speaker 1>officer but gives out a business card advertising his skill

0:41:26.530 --> 0:41:31.490
<v Speaker 1>in the mystic science of namology. My father was different.

0:41:32.530 --> 0:41:36.690
<v Speaker 1>He became a doctor, a scientific rationalist, and it's his

0:41:36.730 --> 0:41:46.130
<v Speaker 1>spirit I'm inherited, not the mystical side. In Ohi, Michael

0:41:46.170 --> 0:41:50.210
<v Speaker 1>Cronin takes me into Kay's personal library, where the books

0:41:50.210 --> 0:41:53.810
<v Speaker 1>are just as he left them. The Ways of White

0:41:53.890 --> 0:41:57.370
<v Speaker 1>Folks by length and Hughes. This is actually quite a

0:41:58.170 --> 0:42:05.170
<v Speaker 1>oh my goodness, an interest in wonder, Sincerely, Lengthston Hughes, Carmel, Highland,

0:42:05.250 --> 0:42:10.810
<v Speaker 1>September eighteenth, nineteen thirty four. Like most writers, when I

0:42:10.850 --> 0:42:13.810
<v Speaker 1>walk into a room, my eyes are drawn to the bookshelves.

0:42:14.570 --> 0:42:17.410
<v Speaker 1>In Ohi, it's impressive to see all the various editions

0:42:17.410 --> 0:42:20.690
<v Speaker 1>of works by and about K. But you can also

0:42:20.770 --> 0:42:23.090
<v Speaker 1>tell a lot about someone by what they like to read.

0:42:23.890 --> 0:42:28.130
<v Speaker 1>So when I'm taken into Christian Murty's study, I'm immediately intrigued. Yeah,

0:42:28.170 --> 0:42:33.010
<v Speaker 1>I was a Jack Higgins. The Igor has landed. He

0:42:33.730 --> 0:42:38.730
<v Speaker 1>was a great fan of these kind of books. Yeah,

0:42:38.770 --> 0:42:42.490
<v Speaker 1>I was a Jack Higgins. Oh yeah, We've got The

0:42:42.530 --> 0:42:48.250
<v Speaker 1>Freelance Spy, the Wolfling, the Scream of the Dove. Yeah.

0:42:48.250 --> 0:42:51.930
<v Speaker 1>So he was pop fiction, that's what. Yeah. Sometimes I

0:42:52.010 --> 0:42:55.490
<v Speaker 1>remember he asked me, you know, I mean not here,

0:42:55.570 --> 0:42:59.970
<v Speaker 1>but in over where the lunch was served, and he said, sir,

0:43:00.530 --> 0:43:04.690
<v Speaker 1>could you go to the local bookstore and maybe by

0:43:05.290 --> 0:43:08.850
<v Speaker 1>by a couple of books by Leon Urus, you know,

0:43:10.850 --> 0:43:14.610
<v Speaker 1>and I would buy some of those. I mere Garden

0:43:14.770 --> 0:43:24.850
<v Speaker 1>Ruins and oh yeah, Tom, these books James Bond, the

0:43:24.890 --> 0:43:28.970
<v Speaker 1>Scottish thriller writer Aliston McClain, and Leon URIs, who wrote

0:43:28.970 --> 0:43:33.330
<v Speaker 1>a lot about World War Two. They're mucho trashy entertainment.

0:43:34.290 --> 0:43:36.890
<v Speaker 1>I think this is the moment that Christian Murty really

0:43:36.930 --> 0:43:40.450
<v Speaker 1>comes into focus for me. He didn't just reject being

0:43:40.450 --> 0:43:44.170
<v Speaker 1>the Messiah because he had some philosophical belief in simplicity.

0:43:45.250 --> 0:43:50.170
<v Speaker 1>He was simple, he was ordinary. He spent the second

0:43:50.170 --> 0:43:54.250
<v Speaker 1>half of his life turning himself into an ordinary person.

0:43:59.850 --> 0:44:03.490
<v Speaker 1>My family house in Argre is gone now. Sometime in

0:44:03.530 --> 0:44:06.570
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen nineties it was torn down and all the

0:44:06.650 --> 0:44:10.130
<v Speaker 1>books and papers vanished. Every time I think about that,

0:44:10.210 --> 0:44:14.850
<v Speaker 1>I experienced a pang of loss, all that lost knowledge,

0:44:15.810 --> 0:44:23.210
<v Speaker 1>all that history. Let the cottage, you know, Hi, I

0:44:23.330 --> 0:44:26.850
<v Speaker 1>decide that I'm okay with it. This is a place

0:44:26.930 --> 0:44:30.410
<v Speaker 1>to let things go, to allow the past to slide

0:44:30.450 --> 0:44:34.370
<v Speaker 1>into forgetfulness. Maybe the thing to do would be to

0:44:34.410 --> 0:44:39.170
<v Speaker 1>follow Kay's example and sit under the pepper tree reading

0:44:39.210 --> 0:45:19.890
<v Speaker 1>Tom Clancy, enjoying the afternoon sun. Chrishnamuti was not exactly

0:45:19.970 --> 0:45:25.210
<v Speaker 1>hiding out in California, not an exile, but many others were,

0:45:25.650 --> 0:45:29.450
<v Speaker 1>and they hated the sunny state. To find them, we

0:45:29.530 --> 0:45:32.610
<v Speaker 1>have to leave behind the orange groves of Ojai for

0:45:32.650 --> 0:45:37.090
<v Speaker 1>the freeways of la I don't know how you feel generally.

0:45:39.050 --> 0:45:42.770
<v Speaker 1>What are your feelings generally about literary pilgrimage. Is it

0:45:42.890 --> 0:45:46.490
<v Speaker 1>something you you're always up for? I am always up

0:45:46.490 --> 0:45:52.370
<v Speaker 1>for it, and I'm always disappointed. Fun Son and lots

0:45:52.410 --> 0:45:57.930
<v Speaker 1>to complain about optimism. Pessimism that's next week on Into

0:45:57.970 --> 0:46:07.650
<v Speaker 1>the Zone. Into the Zone is produced by Rider Also

0:46:08.090 --> 0:46:12.370
<v Speaker 1>and Hunter Braithway. Our editor is Julia Barton. Mer La

0:46:12.450 --> 0:46:17.130
<v Speaker 1>Belle is our executive producer. Martin Gonzalez is our engineer.

0:46:17.850 --> 0:46:23.090
<v Speaker 1>Music for this episode composed by Spatial Relations. Our theme

0:46:23.170 --> 0:46:26.850
<v Speaker 1>song is composed by Sarah K. Pedinatti, also known as

0:46:26.930 --> 0:46:32.890
<v Speaker 1>Lipp Talk Special Thanks to Jacob Weisberg, Heather Faine, John Schnaz,

0:46:33.490 --> 0:46:39.130
<v Speaker 1>Maya Kanig, Carlie Migliori, Eric Sandler, Emily Rostick, and Maggie

0:46:39.210 --> 0:46:43.250
<v Speaker 1>Taylor into the Zone as a production of Pushkin Industries.

0:46:44.050 --> 0:46:46.770
<v Speaker 1>If you enjoyed this episode, please consider letting others know.

0:46:47.450 --> 0:46:49.490
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<v Speaker 1>on Apple Podcasts. You could even write a review. See

0:46:53.290 --> 0:46:55.730
<v Speaker 1>you next week. I'm Harry KUNZRN