Speaker 1: This podcast is part of the seventy Sixers podcast network
Speaker 1: search seventy Sixers podcast wherever you get your pods. This
Speaker 1: week's guest on the Tom's Talks podcast his former seventy sixer,
Speaker 1: Jerry Stackhouse. The North Carolina standout, went third overall to
Speaker 1: the seventy Sixers in the nineteen ninety five NBA Draft.
Speaker 1: He played a hundred and seventy five games with the
Speaker 1: Sixers over two plus seasons. Overall, stack forged an eighteen
Speaker 1: year NBA career that included two All Star appearances, and
Speaker 1: he scored over sixteen thousand points. Now, he's turned to
Speaker 1: coaching after two successful seasons in the G League, including
Speaker 1: the championship and Coach of the Year honors in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1: Two more years as an NBA assistant followed, and currently
Speaker 1: Jerry is the head men's basketball coach at Vanderbilt University.
Speaker 1: Here's my conversation with Jerry Stackhouse. Welcome to another edition
Speaker 1: of Tom's Talk, and we're joined by the head coach
Speaker 1: of Vanderbilt University, former six or Jerry Stackhouse, and coach,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. I know you've
Speaker 1: been busy a bit of an unsettled time, but to
Speaker 1: appreciate the time here. How's it going, Uh, it's going town.
Speaker 1: It's been been hectic, been busy. Even though we've all
Speaker 1: kind of been quarantined, it's still been a lot more
Speaker 1: energy trying to get on zoom calls and recruit you know,
Speaker 1: you know over over zooms and you know, FaceTime and
Speaker 1: all those things. But you know, we're enjoying it. Man.
Speaker 1: We've been able to steal uh, you know, bring in
Speaker 1: a couple of some talented players. Um. So we just
Speaker 1: ready to get ready to get back. Man, it's just uh,
Speaker 1: it's long overdue. What's your spiel? Like, Vanderbilt, great school,
Speaker 1: you're playing a fantastic league in the SEC. Yourself an
Speaker 1: eighteen year NBA player of staff that's going to help
Speaker 1: develop your players on off of the court. What do
Speaker 1: you pitch to these young men that you'd hope to
Speaker 1: come to Vanderbilt? Man, I need to hire you time.
Speaker 1: You just hit it all on the head right there.
Speaker 1: That's what we do. Man. Obviously, it's a great opportunity
Speaker 1: to um, you know, you know, get an education a
Speaker 1: second to none, you know, first and foremost. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's what Vanderbilt. You know stand you know, stands on
Speaker 1: UM an opportunity to play in the SEC you know,
Speaker 1: POLI five conference conference that UM has produced as many
Speaker 1: pros as anybody over you know, the last ten years UM.
Speaker 1: And then you know, have access to to me and
Speaker 1: my staff and what we're how we're able to continue
Speaker 1: your development and for guys to have aspirations of plan
Speaker 1: at that next level. Obviously we have understand what that
Speaker 1: looked like, you know, from from myself as well as
Speaker 1: other guys that I have on staff. You know, I
Speaker 1: went and it's kind of a uh, melting pot of
Speaker 1: talent there, you know. You know Adam Azouri who worked
Speaker 1: with me in Memphis, who you know, he did all
Speaker 1: of the draft workouts and you know, really great. And
Speaker 1: that's what I wanted, you know, I wanted coaches who
Speaker 1: could get still get on the floor. I mean I
Speaker 1: still get on the floor with him. And because I
Speaker 1: can do that, I wanted coaches to still be able
Speaker 1: to do that, because I think that's where they u
Speaker 1: get better. I mean, yeah, you want guys that can
Speaker 1: recruit and can relate to two guys and can call
Speaker 1: them in real relationships. But once you hear you know
Speaker 1: we you know, we want to focus on you. We're
Speaker 1: not focusing so much on the next guys. We want
Speaker 1: to focus on on the kids is here and knowing that,
Speaker 1: you know, our staff is built to do that. I
Speaker 1: got grinders. I got guys that get out there and
Speaker 1: sweat just like the players. And I think that's when
Speaker 1: you really see that return on your investment, when you
Speaker 1: put that sweat equity in and and you see the results,
Speaker 1: no doubt about it. Tough league Kentucky, I mean in
Speaker 1: your school has beaten Kentucky and kind of see over
Speaker 1: the years, but you know, two years ago before you
Speaker 1: got there, they had not won a league game. Last year,
Speaker 1: you guys finished strong in league, having one three right
Speaker 1: there at the end. Your selection process in terms of
Speaker 1: recruiting because of the rigors and the academic standards at
Speaker 1: Vanderbilt are more difficult. It's a tough challenge, is not well,
Speaker 1: I think you know, someone look at as a challenge.
Speaker 1: Is not as easy as going in and uh walking
Speaker 1: into the top one hundred camping. Okay, like I like him,
Speaker 1: I like him. I like him. We have to kind
Speaker 1: of come around the back end a little bit. We
Speaker 1: have to you know, identify guys that we know are
Speaker 1: good students, um and and are still really good athletes.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a ton of parents and kids who
Speaker 1: want this environment and um and want this type of education,
Speaker 1: both both both sides of it. You get the education
Speaker 1: and the the athletics. Uh, there's a number of kids.
Speaker 1: We just had to find them, you know, and I
Speaker 1: think we've done a good job of find It's a
Speaker 1: little bit tougher early on because we were we were
Speaker 1: taking over another someone else's roster and and and and
Speaker 1: I didn't I thought roster was still pretty good. And
Speaker 1: then we you know, had hit some injuries and different
Speaker 1: things like that and had to kind of readjust on
Speaker 1: the fly with also the best player right in the
Speaker 1: very first game of conference play and our you know,
Speaker 1: starting center probably five or six games before that. So
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, outlook, what I thought this team could
Speaker 1: be changed kind of mid mid season, But you know,
Speaker 1: I credit our guys kept fighting, kept listening, and by
Speaker 1: the end of the you know, the regular season, we
Speaker 1: were teaming nobody wanted to play. So I think I
Speaker 1: mean we were doing that pretty much with six six
Speaker 1: scholarship players and four or five walk ons. So you know,
Speaker 1: now that we got a full roster, obviously, I'm optimistic
Speaker 1: and really excited to get back now. As you said,
Speaker 1: you kind of as far as recruiting, sometimes have to
Speaker 1: go at it a little bit differently, and you came
Speaker 1: about coaching a little bit differently, and you know, you
Speaker 1: started watching your son play aau felt like, wow, this
Speaker 1: is a little bit loose. So we're gonna get into
Speaker 1: how it all evolved, how you ended up in Nashville
Speaker 1: with Vanderbilt. But did you ever see before that even
Speaker 1: even developed, did you think you would be post basketball
Speaker 1: player a coach. Well, I mean if you look at
Speaker 1: the kind of the track records for the guys for
Speaker 1: that played for Dean Smith, you know, quite a few
Speaker 1: of them went into the coaching ranks. I didn't think
Speaker 1: I was gonna be one of them. But I just
Speaker 1: think as a as a player, I always gravitated toward
Speaker 1: trying to help, you know, the younger players, you know,
Speaker 1: especially during my time in Detroit and Dallas. I just
Speaker 1: took on that, you know, you know, the elder elder
Speaker 1: statesman's role, you know, with the teams a lot, because
Speaker 1: I didn't have that at you know, when I was
Speaker 1: got drafted by the Sixers, you know, I had guys
Speaker 1: that you know, almost you know something. They wanted to
Speaker 1: allow you to make a mistake because it felt like
Speaker 1: it would be another opportunity for them. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. The only guy that really came and took
Speaker 1: me under their wings and showed me how to, you know,
Speaker 1: chase off screens and be a shooting like I played
Speaker 1: power forward in college and pretty much up until that point.
Speaker 1: I got drafted as a shooting guard. But I've never
Speaker 1: been a shooting guard in my life, so I needed
Speaker 1: someone to to take me on the wings. And to
Speaker 1: my credit, Vernon Maxwell was a guy. You know, he
Speaker 1: just saw me getting killed off the screens and it's like,
Speaker 1: come in, you know, come come, I got something for you.
Speaker 1: I got something for you, and like, you know, you
Speaker 1: got to put your hand on his outside hit now.
Speaker 1: And then for that on I was good. You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't have any problems chasing off screens. So it's
Speaker 1: just you know, guys that watched me running to those
Speaker 1: screens time and time again, like okay, he keep messing up,
Speaker 1: and that would be my opportune. It's unfortunately, when you
Speaker 1: see guys veterans that have been around that, and I
Speaker 1: just said, I was never gonna be that guy. So
Speaker 1: whenever I had an opportunity, no matter if they drafted
Speaker 1: them or it was a free agent, I was gonna
Speaker 1: make sure that I, you know, put my arms around
Speaker 1: those guys that Jermaine Jackson's all those guys that a team.
Speaker 1: Please you know you guys, you guys are staying over
Speaker 1: in my house and make sure that you're not late
Speaker 1: for practice as rookies. And so I think that that
Speaker 1: started early on, even before I felt like I was
Speaker 1: ever gonna be a coach. But I just think that, um,
Speaker 1: it's kind kind of something that's in a type of
Speaker 1: quality that you just just want to help. You spent
Speaker 1: two years in Chapel Hill and played for the legendary
Speaker 1: Dean Smith blew Heaven as we called you were thinking
Speaker 1: about possibly playing at Duke and Durham, but the Carolina
Speaker 1: away and playing for coach Smith. What was that like?
Speaker 1: That must have shaped you even today as a coach. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it really is. I mean I've had it
Speaker 1: a lot of what I do and who we are
Speaker 1: in our foundation on the same foundation that I learned
Speaker 1: under coach Smith. I felt I felt like it worked
Speaker 1: pretty good for me, that they should worked for other
Speaker 1: guys are inspiring to you know, play at that next
Speaker 1: level and do things. But it was yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it was a challenge, you know, early on, because it
Speaker 1: was like you come in as it's highly touted, you know,
Speaker 1: high school player, and then you come into a team
Speaker 1: where they just won a national championship. You know, I
Speaker 1: was I was really coming to North Carolina because they
Speaker 1: hadn't want the championships since Michael Jordan was there, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to be the guy to help get them
Speaker 1: over the hump and lo and behold, you know that
Speaker 1: spring they went the championship. So it's like it kind
Speaker 1: of took a little bit of my own fight out
Speaker 1: of going there. Still the you know, the prospect of
Speaker 1: playing under Dean Smith, learning him, seeing the track record
Speaker 1: of the guys that have come through there, you know,
Speaker 1: I stayed with my commitment, and you know, and it
Speaker 1: was there and again as you got these hot shot
Speaker 1: freshmen with myself or Sheet and Jeff McKennis. Now we're
Speaker 1: coming into a team that just want a national championship,
Speaker 1: and you know, we're going at him every day. And
Speaker 1: so it was yeahcause I had some tough conversations where
Speaker 1: I was knocking on Coach smith door, like I feel
Speaker 1: like I should be playing more here I'm putting up
Speaker 1: you know, these type of numbers. I'm you know, I'm
Speaker 1: averaging thirteen points in eighteen minutes, so imagine if I
Speaker 1: was playing twenty eight minutes or thirty. And then and
Speaker 1: Coach Smith at the time told me where, you know,
Speaker 1: I need you to focus on, you know, trying it
Speaker 1: with Brian Reese, who's a senior. You guys need to
Speaker 1: try to be the best small coard in the country together.
Speaker 1: You know, as an eighteen year old, what is my raction?
Speaker 1: I feel like I could be the best small forward
Speaker 1: in the country by myself. I don't need to do
Speaker 1: it with with Brian Reese. But it just understanding that
Speaker 1: you have to have to sacrifice and that and that
Speaker 1: was that was a challenge and what that that freshman
Speaker 1: year I was, you know, I was like probably typical
Speaker 1: freshman probably every other week, one week I'm happy, one
Speaker 1: other week I'm ready to transfer, you know. So um,
Speaker 1: but again, I always tell the story my mom I was,
Speaker 1: you know, again, it had kind of just bawled over
Speaker 1: like I was. Come back to the dome and I
Speaker 1: was talking and telling her that I just felt like
Speaker 1: I could be doing more and doing this and she
Speaker 1: heard me out listen to my whole spill, and just
Speaker 1: you know, you kindly told me, if you start running now,
Speaker 1: You're gonna be running for the rest of your life.
Speaker 1: And it was just something that that dawned on me.
Speaker 1: And you know, I stuck it out. And I'm so
Speaker 1: glad that I stuck it out. You know, two weeks later,
Speaker 1: I'm the most Valuable Player of the ACC tournament and
Speaker 1: you know, pretty much the rest its history. So right,
Speaker 1: and you guys, uh mad to the final four? Right?
Speaker 1: And see, yeah, we made to the final four that
Speaker 1: my sophomore season, and Rashida got hurt. I got a
Speaker 1: deep five bruised right the first play of the game.
Speaker 1: I go back and watch that game and still, uh,
Speaker 1: it's like, man, you know, how, how how did this happen?
Speaker 1: On the very first jump ball? You know, Corles will
Speaker 1: give me a knee to device, so I'm playing pretty
Speaker 1: much on one leg, you know that game, hey man,
Speaker 1: and we still had the big Nasty, the big nasty,
Speaker 1: so it was, but yeah, we had had had a
Speaker 1: really good team and a really good run, you know,
Speaker 1: at the end of that, uh, that final four run.
Speaker 1: Made A decision to to leave, talked it over the
Speaker 1: coach Smith for my mom and felt like it was
Speaker 1: the best thing for me to to leave. After my
Speaker 1: sophomore year, got drafted by Philadelphia and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it was there for for a number of years. We
Speaker 1: weren't good teams, weren't playoff teams. So I was able
Speaker 1: to go back and finish up school and all those
Speaker 1: things thing promises that I made the coach Smith for
Speaker 1: my mom, And I'm so glad that I did that,
Speaker 1: you know, because now I wouldn't If I didn't do that,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have the opportunity to do what I'm doing now.
Speaker 1: And us you know, coaching coaching at the collegiate level, right,
Speaker 1: such such a great thing to finish your education. And
Speaker 1: then you come to Philadelphia, as you say, you were
Speaker 1: the number three pick. That was my first year as well.
Speaker 1: That was a big deal. I mean you came with
Speaker 1: a lot of acclaim and a lot of excitement. What
Speaker 1: was that like, first of all, to be drafted and
Speaker 1: then come to Philadelphia and iconic NBA franchise. It was
Speaker 1: really like just a blur, you know, from the high
Speaker 1: school until getting to Philadelphia was really like a blur.
Speaker 1: But like the two years in North Carolina, we're extremely fast,
Speaker 1: you know, getting drafted, and you know, there's a you know,
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to me, I'm just gung ho and excited about,
Speaker 1: you know, being in the NBA, being in Philadelphia, I mean,
Speaker 1: not knowing that the teams for sale, you know, and
Speaker 1: you know, a new new ownership is about to come
Speaker 1: in and the guys that that drafted me just a
Speaker 1: year before weren't gonna be the decision makers going forward,
Speaker 1: and you know, so it was, um, you know, it
Speaker 1: had a rough year. We won you know, eighteen games
Speaker 1: played with about forty people that year, some something crazy.
Speaker 1: I think that might still be a record that the
Speaker 1: number of people that that that Lukie ran in and
Speaker 1: out of there. Everybody that had you know, been in
Speaker 1: the center. He brought them in for a ten days.
Speaker 1: So it was it became a little comical there at
Speaker 1: the end, but it was what it is. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, at the time, and then the next year,
Speaker 1: you know, they draft, you know, draft Alan, you know,
Speaker 1: in my mind knowing that, I mean, I competed against
Speaker 1: Alan and knew the type of dynamic score that he
Speaker 1: was as well as myself that I in my mind,
Speaker 1: I felt like the best fit for our team and
Speaker 1: where we would had was with Stephan Marbury. I was,
Speaker 1: you know, I was thinking Marbury was like, man, I
Speaker 1: got the past first point guard and that didn't happen.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously, you know Alan option has done great things.
Speaker 1: He's kind of Philadelphia, but it wasn't the best fit
Speaker 1: for me and and my game. You know. It was
Speaker 1: a guy who needed the ball, you know. I mean
Speaker 1: so many times I felt like we were on the
Speaker 1: two on one break and I'm I almost got the
Speaker 1: ball in my hand, and it was a pump thinking
Speaker 1: the score because that's what you know, natural scorers do,
Speaker 1: so you know, but um, you know, but I think
Speaker 1: it was the best thing for me to eventually get
Speaker 1: to Detroit and I was able to spread my wings
Speaker 1: and show that I was still you know, all star talent,
Speaker 1: even though again I said, I never played shooting guard
Speaker 1: before in my life. But I was able to continue
Speaker 1: to work and develop myself to become an All Star
Speaker 1: at this level. And you know, carve out, you know,
Speaker 1: a pretty long career, uh, you know, and doing something
Speaker 1: that I truly loved. You had a fifty eight point game,
Speaker 1: I believe it was with the Pistons against Chicago. One
Speaker 1: game fifty seven Yeah, fifty highs, fifty seven's. But now
Speaker 1: I was, I was, I had it going that night.
Speaker 1: You know, quite a few guys was getting fifty points
Speaker 1: that year, and I had a number of forty point games,
Speaker 1: but I just never clipped the fifty point. And then
Speaker 1: it was just like everything was quicking. I came out
Speaker 1: and you know, made a couple of shot seeming close,
Speaker 1: and then a few threes fall. The next thing, you know,
Speaker 1: everything I threw up was going in. So and like
Speaker 1: I said, I kind of got tired because when I
Speaker 1: look back at the game and I look at some
Speaker 1: of the shots that I did miss, I was like, man, honestly,
Speaker 1: I probably should have had seventy five this game, you know,
Speaker 1: and people like you crazy, Yeah you had almost sixty points,
Speaker 1: and you're saying like, no, I'm telling you this right here,
Speaker 1: I might have made this shot to make it seventy
Speaker 1: five times. I should have had stack. I was gonna
Speaker 1: bring us up at the end. And this is how
Speaker 1: absurd it is that I'm bringing up now if you
Speaker 1: said you scored fifty seven in the game, but when
Speaker 1: you seemed up the ball, most guys your middle fingers
Speaker 1: right in the middle, but you seemed up the ball
Speaker 1: with your index finger in the middle. And the reason
Speaker 1: I jokingly bring it up is we had a preseason
Speaker 1: game your second year. Johnny Davis was our coach. We
Speaker 1: were in Anaheim. I believe we might have played the Clippers,
Speaker 1: and I just was questioning you. I wasn't working on
Speaker 1: your gripper and it didn't. But I remember I waited
Speaker 1: for Johnny Davis to leave and get on the bus,
Speaker 1: and then you and I sat on the bach. I
Speaker 1: don't expect you to remember this. We sat on the bench.
Speaker 1: I'm like, stack, show me that. And of course here
Speaker 1: comes Johnny Davis back into the Jimmy Season stalk, and
Speaker 1: he's like, you know, I coaching my guys, all right,
Speaker 1: but you see the ball up differently. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think, I mean I probably changed it up since
Speaker 1: then too. I mean again, I was like, when that
Speaker 1: was our first year, or that was that was my
Speaker 1: second year with Johnny Davis. Um, you know, it's just
Speaker 1: like man I was, I was still working so working
Speaker 1: out the kinks, you know, working out. I mean, I
Speaker 1: wish I'd have had all of the what I what
Speaker 1: I know now as far as shooting the ball. If
Speaker 1: I've been able to get some of the things that
Speaker 1: I've been able to give to young guys, and I
Speaker 1: think I would have become more. But and Coach Smith
Speaker 1: told me, he was like, you know, you're you know
Speaker 1: the way the ball release. You just gotta get more
Speaker 1: reps and you become a pure shooter. And nothing I did.
Speaker 1: I become a pure shooter, but it was just I
Speaker 1: had to continue to get those reps and and I
Speaker 1: kind of like it was always nice like those two
Speaker 1: fingers put there and room right in there, put those
Speaker 1: two things right in the middle of the rim as
Speaker 1: you follow through. And now it was as you add
Speaker 1: a little subtle things like rubbing my rid that's that
Speaker 1: way that forces my elbow in instead of out. You know,
Speaker 1: a little stuff like that, just a little subtle thing.
Speaker 1: It's not not much, just a little rub to know
Speaker 1: that I texted my ridin that my elbow was in.
Speaker 1: And then you know, just standing in my circle, little
Speaker 1: little pointers that over time and reps, you can really
Speaker 1: improve your shooting. We'll have more of my conversation with
Speaker 1: coach Jerry Stackhouse in a moment. In this time of
Speaker 1: social distancing, Novacare Rehabilitation is offering physical therapy from the
Speaker 1: comfort and safety of your home. Through their new tell
Speaker 1: a Rehab program, Novacare will virtually bring their services to
Speaker 1: you so you may heal, build strength, and get back
Speaker 1: to the things you love. Tell a Rehab let you
Speaker 1: ease connect with one of Novocare's licensed therapists through web
Speaker 1: based technology that is hippo compliant. For more information, visit
Speaker 1: novacare dot com. And now back to my chat with
Speaker 1: Jerry Stackhouse. You mentioned your career and you moved on
Speaker 1: to different spots, including a big chunk of time, as
Speaker 1: you say, in Dallas, and then when you were an
Speaker 1: assistant in Memphis and Toronto. I remember sitting with you
Speaker 1: on the bench and like you played, and this was
Speaker 1: part of your message to those players in those franchises,
Speaker 1: and I want to get into your G League time too.
Speaker 1: But where you played every position, you were the top scorer,
Speaker 1: you were an all start. Toward the end of your career,
Speaker 1: you were a reserve, you were the leader, and that
Speaker 1: helped form really what you could bring to the table
Speaker 1: as an assistant coach. Correct, absolutely, I mean I think
Speaker 1: you understand every seat. You know, you understand the seat
Speaker 1: of the star players, in the seat of guys that
Speaker 1: have been star players and now you need them to
Speaker 1: transition to you know, coming off the bench or even
Speaker 1: to you know, my last year where I wasn't even
Speaker 1: you know, I played, but that wasn't the thought coming
Speaker 1: in was it was just to kind of be a
Speaker 1: locker room guy mentor the guys making sure and we
Speaker 1: need you here and there's something cool. And then I
Speaker 1: wound up playing a ton, But I think that was
Speaker 1: just to you know, being able to work, you know,
Speaker 1: sitting all those seats, it helps me get into the
Speaker 1: psyche of the kids that I that I have. Now,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like there's nothing that you're going to
Speaker 1: go through that you're gonna deal with um that that
Speaker 1: I haven't gone through. And like I said, you just
Speaker 1: got to continue to work and got to continue to
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, there's no I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't think I'm pretty sure it is, but I don't
Speaker 1: think that there's any coach that wants to lose, and
Speaker 1: he's gonna try to put out there that the players
Speaker 1: that's that's gonna help him win and have success. And
Speaker 1: I think that's what our guys understand. That ever, the
Speaker 1: guys that I played with, and you know, we got
Speaker 1: to be a defensive team first. I mean for someone
Speaker 1: that has scored as many points that I have, you know,
Speaker 1: the thing is that I'm a really defensive minded coach
Speaker 1: when when it comes to it, because I understood things
Speaker 1: that I didn't like to see. So I pretty much
Speaker 1: built my you know philosophy a defense of things that
Speaker 1: as a as a primary score, things that I didn't
Speaker 1: want to look at. And so um, just over time
Speaker 1: man learning and being able to be around other great coaches,
Speaker 1: you know, you know with coach Casey and m in Toronto, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, get you know, give me that opportunity to
Speaker 1: come in and be an assistant on his staff. One
Speaker 1: year from that, then I was able to go to
Speaker 1: the G League. Asked me to coach the G League team,
Speaker 1: and we win the championship the first year, we go
Speaker 1: back to the finals the second year. So you know,
Speaker 1: people start to take notice. Holder you know, Stack might
Speaker 1: know what he's doing a little bit, you know, and
Speaker 1: I think it really helped me to take a couple
Speaker 1: of steps backwards. You know, a lot of guys like, man,
Speaker 1: why are you going down to the G League? You know,
Speaker 1: you're already behind the bench on the you know, on
Speaker 1: the NBA team, next step of you. But you know,
Speaker 1: I went from taking a step back to taking two
Speaker 1: steps forward. You know, I'm already getting interview for head
Speaker 1: coaching jobs, you know, to UM and then I was.
Speaker 1: I was up for the Toronto job. They gave it
Speaker 1: a Nick and you know, rightfully, so, I mean, Nick
Speaker 1: did a great job, had a great rapport with masside
Speaker 1: things that I didn't know, you know, even until after
Speaker 1: the fact when I'm in an interview that you know,
Speaker 1: MASSI played for for Nick Nurse in England. You know,
Speaker 1: I wasn't getting that job, you know what I'm saying. So,
Speaker 1: but it was cool to go through that process um
Speaker 1: interview with the Knicks, and you know, and then I
Speaker 1: you know, from that, I just felt like, Okay, it'd
Speaker 1: be a little awkward still being in the organization, you know,
Speaker 1: knowing that I was up for, you know, the head job,
Speaker 1: and and and the other guy got it. Uh, So I,
Speaker 1: you know, took assistant job in Memphis, worked with JV. Bickerstaff,
Speaker 1: who was great to work with. Gave me a you know,
Speaker 1: a ton of responsibility. It was almost like he because
Speaker 1: he understood it, he understood my dynamic. I had been
Speaker 1: a head coach for two years, so it was hard
Speaker 1: to make that adjustment to going back into an assistant
Speaker 1: role because now you're you're the suggestion guy. You're not
Speaker 1: the final decision maker. You're the guy to have to
Speaker 1: make the suggestions. And quite frankly, you know, when the
Speaker 1: opportunity came for me to to you know, Vanderbilt came calling,
Speaker 1: you know, Malcolm Turner who got hired as a d uh.
Speaker 1: You know, he saw me work firsthand in the G
Speaker 1: League and he's like, man, I watched this guy developed talent,
Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes you're doing it with you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes more with less. And that might be our model
Speaker 1: here at Vanderbilt, where okay, we may not get the
Speaker 1: five stars, it might get the four stars and three
Speaker 1: stars because of the academic piece. So I need someone
Speaker 1: here to to to develop and it just was it
Speaker 1: was a great time and man, and and you know,
Speaker 1: I had to, you know, I had to take it
Speaker 1: again because I wanted to. You know, it's like a
Speaker 1: it's like a fix. You know, you gotta you gotta
Speaker 1: gotta get back you got that bug once you've been
Speaker 1: making those decisions, and all of a sudden, I wanted
Speaker 1: to get back to making those decisions. So when you know,
Speaker 1: when they when they called me about this job, sat
Speaker 1: down with Kandice league, who's the who's the ad now?
Speaker 1: Malcolm stepped down. But you know, we just have a
Speaker 1: great report, We got a great outlook on where we
Speaker 1: want to go. I think our university is, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the most progressive in the country. I meant
Speaker 1: having you know, a female African American a d uh,
Speaker 1: you know, and two African American head coaches in football
Speaker 1: and basketball. You don't find that, you know, especially in
Speaker 1: this climate that we're in right now, where so much
Speaker 1: as about social injustice and you um, you know, and
Speaker 1: they've been at the forefront. You know, there were teams
Speaker 1: talking about taking the taking down civil rights monuments and stuff.
Speaker 1: They've already done that, you know. So I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm at a great place, a great progressive place to
Speaker 1: really help make a change. That's awesome Stack speaking of
Speaker 1: that G League experience and Brand is now our general manager,
Speaker 1: and he did that in terms of working with the
Speaker 1: GI League entity in Delaware, and again I go all
Speaker 1: the way back to the CBA. Like you know, you're
Speaker 1: on the road, not just in the games, but you're
Speaker 1: on the road. You're making but you can't who's making
Speaker 1: You're making the call. You make so many decisions with
Speaker 1: the roster. I mean, just that right there is what
Speaker 1: you're kind of talking about, not just the exers and
Speaker 1: those and the endgame stuff, but pretty much all across
Speaker 1: the board to travel everything. Yeah, man, I mean I
Speaker 1: have to give you know, MASSI, you know, a ton
Speaker 1: of credit. Man. He entrusted a lot of me, you know,
Speaker 1: to be able to just like hand that team to
Speaker 1: me and Dan Tosman. It was really great to work with.
Speaker 1: He'said I think he's the general manager assistant general manager
Speaker 1: now you know he moved up from from the nine
Speaker 1: oh five, but you know, he was just great to
Speaker 1: work with. We had a great rapport. We talked about,
Speaker 1: you know, the pieces that I needed or we're talking.
Speaker 1: I think I'm good right now, I don't, you know,
Speaker 1: we want to make a trade. Somebody agent called him,
Speaker 1: you know, and gout a guy like, no, I like
Speaker 1: our team right now. These guys been working hard. And
Speaker 1: then he listened something at you know, that's great to
Speaker 1: have a rapport with someone like that, but um, you know,
Speaker 1: we just were every hat, you know, whether it was
Speaker 1: just scheduling right, you know, if it's dealing with the
Speaker 1: medical staff, he's dealing with the training staff, you know,
Speaker 1: managing your coaches, managing your assistance, managing different issues that
Speaker 1: come up as players. You know you're able to do that.
Speaker 1: So I think you know, Ben, guys ask me about
Speaker 1: you know, what do you think about the GI League?
Speaker 1: Guys like you get an opportunity to go to GI
Speaker 1: League go, you know, go, you learn so much. I
Speaker 1: mean that you would never have that much responsibility in
Speaker 1: any role. I think on the NBA team the world,
Speaker 1: you have to understand so many others. But it would
Speaker 1: definitely help you understand other people's jobs and different things
Speaker 1: that they need to do. If you know, once you
Speaker 1: make it to an NBA staff or roster. The landscape
Speaker 1: of college basketball in general, just with kind of with
Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen and everything up in the air, it'll
Speaker 1: be interesting to see how that shakes out, you know,
Speaker 1: come October November. But no doubt you'll be watching the
Speaker 1: former NBA player for eighteen years, be watching the NBA
Speaker 1: when they go down to Orlando to see how that
Speaker 1: plays out in the bubble sort of speak, won't you. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I mean I'm sorry, I'm excited about it, you know,
Speaker 1: because I hope everything works out. It's just so many
Speaker 1: you know, variables that are gonna be thrown into it
Speaker 1: this time. Like you know, just imagine, you know, let's say,
Speaker 1: you know, the Lakers make it to the finals and
Speaker 1: you know, not to put anything on Lebron James, but
Speaker 1: he gets you know, test positive, he's out of out
Speaker 1: of the finals. So I mean, there's so many I
Speaker 1: think that this is a you know, with the teams
Speaker 1: that they've added, um, you don't know who's been you know,
Speaker 1: really focusing and working out who's gonna be a little
Speaker 1: bit behind. So I mean it's a great opportunity for
Speaker 1: a team that's not really on the radar to come
Speaker 1: in and steal the world championship. You know, maybe it's
Speaker 1: not gonna be an asteroid by you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: If We're gonna play the game, and you know, at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, whoever Wednesday Wednesday. So I
Speaker 1: think that's that makes it makes up for a lot
Speaker 1: of excitement, and I'm definitely looking forward to Obviously brandon
Speaker 1: Ingram is a kid that I had sins it's like
Speaker 1: seven eighth grade, and you know, they got a really
Speaker 1: exciting young team there in New Orleans. So I'm excited
Speaker 1: to see him and Dyeing and Zoe. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: that's my team now, you know the Pelicans, yeah, Bi,
Speaker 1: the Pride of Kinston, North Carolina. Right, Yeah, So this
Speaker 1: is uh, we'll wrap up with a couple of three
Speaker 1: kind of hot takes, sport of sport kind of things.
Speaker 1: You can respond or whatever. But I have, like they say,
Speaker 1: I have a good memory, at least for now. It's
Speaker 1: probably gonna escape me and some type of shooing. But
Speaker 1: I don't forget a lot. I remember when you your
Speaker 1: deal was with Fela, right, and you signed that as
Speaker 1: a rookie right when your season starting. So we're you
Speaker 1: and I are standing there at the in the gym
Speaker 1: in Saint Joe's in the corner, and I don't know
Speaker 1: practice it might have been a media day, but you
Speaker 1: had your whole feeling, Garen, and I had Nike stuff on.
Speaker 1: It just happened to be like, choose sweat. Mine probably
Speaker 1: came from TJ MG. And you go, what you gotta deal?
Speaker 1: You got a Nike deal. I'm like, no, don't give
Speaker 1: the radio guy naked. And the other one was I'm
Speaker 1: giving you a problem. I'm gonna give you problems time. Yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: knockoff Nike deal. But the other one was Luke. John
Speaker 1: Lucas was a character, very charismatic. He was also the
Speaker 1: general manager sometimes Luke. When you remember this too, he
Speaker 1: would practice right, and Luke would come over to me
Speaker 1: after he's I was the best guard out there. I'm like, right,
Speaker 1: but you're the general manager too. That's great. You took
Speaker 1: Trevor Rumping off the dribble, but right, I mean, Luke
Speaker 1: would be out there. Yeah, man, competitors are competitors. Man,
Speaker 1: Lukey was get out there and because he could pass
Speaker 1: that thing and him and Moo cheeks boat they get
Speaker 1: out there and even though they might not can run long,
Speaker 1: but when they had the minutes that they run, they
Speaker 1: showed why they were why they were great. Right, And
Speaker 1: I won't bring up the Kobe thing. I know you
Speaker 1: played him and I heard you talk to WOJ. He
Speaker 1: didn't win every game, but it was amazing. No, by
Speaker 1: the way, nothing really to be ashamed of. Kobe turned
Speaker 1: out to be a pretty terrific player, but he was
Speaker 1: play Yeah, yeah, it was man. I mean, I have
Speaker 1: no problem speaking on that because I mean again, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a tragic loss for for all of us. I
Speaker 1: mean we saw his career and saw what he was
Speaker 1: able to do. Um. But it's just like when when
Speaker 1: you start talking about things like that, people you know,
Speaker 1: lord grows and it's cool. I'm cool with letting the
Speaker 1: Lord grow because of who he is and because of
Speaker 1: his family. But you know, at the end of the days,
Speaker 1: Jerry Stackhouse, but you know him and got a lot
Speaker 1: of pride, and I'm you know, I ain't gonna change
Speaker 1: that for anybody. The other thing was Luke. I can
Speaker 1: still see this in the locker room at Saint Joe's.
Speaker 1: This is before there were like energy drinks like a
Speaker 1: dime a dozen. But Luke had his little the genius
Speaker 1: sal Wouchie and all of one of the gin sing
Speaker 1: the sal she had me. Luke had so much of
Speaker 1: that stuff. Man, I look at that funny though I had.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't you think Jerry Sallan's making this
Speaker 1: for carnibalone right now? I don't think so. Man. It
Speaker 1: was it was unbelievable watching that stuff. Man, I guess
Speaker 1: I had my ties. My massige therapist used to come
Speaker 1: down and she used to give me some little gin
Speaker 1: seeing and stuff to take legent seeing root and stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was like, oh man, I can't and stuff,
Speaker 1: and I can't believe Luke's drinking and stuff every day.
Speaker 1: Taste nasty and bitter and everything. But but whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: it worked for him. Your brother Tony Dawson. When I
Speaker 1: was in Florida, I saw his career at Gulf Coast
Speaker 1: Community College and then Florida State. And then when he
Speaker 1: would come around with you at the building, we always
Speaker 1: had a smile and it gave were great rememberance. But
Speaker 1: he was a terrific basketball player, man, Tony. That's where
Speaker 1: I mean, because I tell everybody you know, they feel
Speaker 1: like how you was a scorer. I like, man, you
Speaker 1: ain't seen my brother. You know what I'm saying When
Speaker 1: you're talking about can really scoring the basketball? And then
Speaker 1: he had an unbelievable story. Man, Tony was hit by
Speaker 1: car three times. I mean, like, who gets hit by
Speaker 1: car once? But he got hit by car three times.
Speaker 1: His foot was hanging off, had to have his you
Speaker 1: know surgery, you know, moved the bone from his hip
Speaker 1: to go on his foot, and he still managed to
Speaker 1: play professional basketball, had a couple of ten days with
Speaker 1: Sacramento in Boston, but played overseas for like thirteen to
Speaker 1: fourteen years. Man. So he's definitely ah inspiration for me.
Speaker 1: Always been a big one of my biggest supporters and
Speaker 1: the guy that I probably looked up to more than
Speaker 1: anybody else. You know, people would say, you know who
Speaker 1: who Michael Jordan, uh, you know doctor j j All
Speaker 1: those was cool, But Tony Dawson was it for me.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. It was just one of
Speaker 1: those um, you know, big brother things, and you know,
Speaker 1: just one of one of the most disappointing moments in
Speaker 1: my life was when he didn't get drafted because I
Speaker 1: thought he himself in a great position. They was talking
Speaker 1: about him being a late first round, you know, early
Speaker 1: second round, and we were watching the draft and you know,
Speaker 1: and the craziest thing about the last name in the
Speaker 1: draft was like you know, Tony, and we were all
Speaker 1: like and then like Brown, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So it's like such a disappointment, but that feel me,
Speaker 1: I mean that really you that made you know, that
Speaker 1: made me really focus in and not that I'm I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get drafted. You know what I'm saying, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: work my butt off because that disappointment that I saw
Speaker 1: in his face and disappointment that our whole our family
Speaker 1: had that night from him not being drafted, it was
Speaker 1: was great motivation and fuel for me, and you know,
Speaker 1: got me to the third pick. So it worked out
Speaker 1: pretty good. Right well, Jerry, we wish you the best.
Speaker 1: I'm just so happy for you. What a job. You
Speaker 1: must be really stoked to get ready for another full year.
Speaker 1: I know it's going to be different, as we stated,
Speaker 1: but to get back with the Commodorees and get after
Speaker 1: it with your second season down there in Vanderbilt. All right,
Speaker 1: I really am man the time. You know, if you
Speaker 1: get any time you want to come spend a little
Speaker 1: time down in Nashville, you know, be happy to host you. Brother.
Speaker 1: Well that's good because my daughter has an interest in Vanderbilt. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, come on, come on through, come on through it. Coach,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, best and luck. We appreciate the time.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, man. Thanks. Thanks for listening to Tom's
Speaker 1: talks with me Tom McGinnis on the seventy six ers
Speaker 1: podcast Network. Check for new episodes every weekend.