WEBVTT - The Cartographer

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Season four of On the Job, a podcast

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<v Speaker 1>about finding your life's work. On the job is brought

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<v Speaker 1>to you by Express Employment Professionals, a leading staffing provider

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<v Speaker 1>that employs nearly six hundred thousand people annually across more

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<v Speaker 1>than eight hundred franchise locations in the US, Canada, and

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<v Speaker 1>South Africa. Our long term goal is to help as

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<v Speaker 1>many people as possible find good jobs by helping as

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<v Speaker 1>many clients as possible find good people. In these uncertain times,

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<v Speaker 1>it's more important than ever to take care of ourselves

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<v Speaker 1>and our loved ones to do what we can to

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<v Speaker 1>stay healthy and productive. Express Employment Professionals will be with

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<v Speaker 1>you every step of the way. We understand what it

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<v Speaker 1>takes to land a new position at a top employer

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<v Speaker 1>or start a new career in today's job market. Plus,

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<v Speaker 1>we never charge a fee to find you a job.

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<v Speaker 1>And just like finding a job, finding the best people

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<v Speaker 1>to fill open positions in your company requires more than

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<v Speaker 1>sorting through applications. It takes real people, real interviews, discovering

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<v Speaker 1>the skills you need. At Express, we find people for

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<v Speaker 1>jobs and companies of all sizes and industries, from the

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<v Speaker 1>production floor to the front office. Express Nose Jobs Get

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<v Speaker 1>to Know Express. This season, we're speaking with folks who

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<v Speaker 1>are finding their professional stride in a tumultuous job market

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<v Speaker 1>and learning how to double down on their skills and

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<v Speaker 1>their experience to overcome challenges. We'll bring you inspiring stories

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<v Speaker 1>of people making themselves essential, an important skill set in

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<v Speaker 1>any economy. Today. For on the Job, we look at

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<v Speaker 1>a profession that you might not have thought was still

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<v Speaker 1>around cartography. I went and sought out a modern mapmaker

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<v Speaker 1>to talk to him about the job, how it's changed

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<v Speaker 1>over the years, and the beauty of finding your own

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<v Speaker 1>way in the world. Vermont, on the first really warm

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<v Speaker 1>sunny spring day of this year, I got in my

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<v Speaker 1>car as I took out my Big Road Atlas Londonderry,

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<v Speaker 1>and I set out to find half good Pond, Half

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<v Speaker 1>good Pond. Here we come. Before COVID nineteen, I was

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<v Speaker 1>on a cross country trip and right towards the end

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<v Speaker 1>I started using this big Road Atlas I had in

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<v Speaker 1>the car instead of the GPS on my phone, and

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<v Speaker 1>it made a world of difference. I felt so much

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<v Speaker 1>more present and was so happy to not constantly be

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<v Speaker 1>looking at a phone. In a lot of ways that

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<v Speaker 1>the data we have on our phone is just data.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just a couple of lines and maybe some nasty

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<v Speaker 1>looking font. This is Tom Harrison. He is a cartographer,

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<v Speaker 1>a map maker. Was something interesting about looking at a

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<v Speaker 1>map and say, oh, this is the landscape around me.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going through, um, you know, new town, but right here,

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<v Speaker 1>about five miles away his old town. I wonder what

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<v Speaker 1>old town looks like five more miles do we take it? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>Tom is the reason I'm looking for Half Good Pond.

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<v Speaker 1>He got his own company called Tom Harrison Maps Company.

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<v Speaker 1>He lives and works in San Rafell, California, just north

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<v Speaker 1>of San Francisco. And I've been producing shady releaf topographic

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<v Speaker 1>maps for hiking and backpacking for over thirty years. I

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<v Speaker 1>had been using my atlas around the country in places

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<v Speaker 1>that I've never been before. But after talking with Tom,

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<v Speaker 1>I looked on the map to see if there's anything

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't know about right where I grew up, southern Vermont,

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<v Speaker 1>and I saw Half Good Pond, not even twenty miles away.

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<v Speaker 1>It was right off a road that I've driven a

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<v Speaker 1>million times. I think I just went past it. I'd

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<v Speaker 1>grown up hearing about it, and I heard it was beautiful.

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<v Speaker 1>I just never went I never realized it was right there. Guy.

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<v Speaker 1>See this is where it gets tricky. But I live

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<v Speaker 1>in a very rural area. So on the map, half

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<v Speaker 1>Good Pond is just in a big green patch off

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<v Speaker 1>the main road. It's all country roads, so it might

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<v Speaker 1>be a little lost. Tom says, that's the beauty of maps.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes you gotta figure it out exactly. So, even though

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<v Speaker 1>you're you're making these things so people can orient themselves

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<v Speaker 1>in space, you hope people still wander and get lost

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit. Yeah, very much. You don't have to

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<v Speaker 1>know everything, and some things are better off just have

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<v Speaker 1>being part of the discovery of your day. Where is it?

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<v Speaker 1>I'll be honest, I was really surprised doing research for

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<v Speaker 1>this show and finding out that not only is matt

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<v Speaker 1>making still an occupation, but there is a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>work out there for cartographers. All there's tons of the

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<v Speaker 1>tons of it. I mean, McDonald's has cartographers really well.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, if you want to put a McDonald someplace,

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<v Speaker 1>you want to find where the nearest school is and

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<v Speaker 1>and figure out what the what's the cheapest real estate

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<v Speaker 1>you can buy nearer schools so kids can walk there

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<v Speaker 1>for the lunch break and all the kind of stuff

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<v Speaker 1>that everybody needs to know where things are. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>what cartographers do. Tom designed beautifully endered, in shaded maps,

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<v Speaker 1>mostly for hikers. And while I might have assumed that

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<v Speaker 1>advancements in technology would put people like Tom out of work,

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<v Speaker 1>it's actually opened up tons of cartography jobs all over

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<v Speaker 1>the world. Any planning department in any city uses cartographers.

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<v Speaker 1>Like when you put a new subdivision in and you're

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<v Speaker 1>trying not to upset the people that live there, you

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<v Speaker 1>need to show why that is not going through the

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<v Speaker 1>local cemetery and why I won't affect the spot of

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<v Speaker 1>owl population and blah blah blah. A cartographer has to

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<v Speaker 1>find that data put on the map for the planner

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<v Speaker 1>to say, Okay, here's what we're gonna do. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>designing both printed and digital maps for the public to see.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you're thinking, okay, but I've never needed a cartographer,

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<v Speaker 1>I've got GPS. Well, a lot of the base maps

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<v Speaker 1>that your GPS uses are made by cartographers. If you

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<v Speaker 1>think about it, GPS just gives you a latitude and

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<v Speaker 1>a longitude doesn't show you where you are. You ever

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<v Speaker 1>look at a GPS on your phone when you don't

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<v Speaker 1>have any service and you're just a blue dot in

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<v Speaker 1>the middle of a gray grid. That's what or GPS

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<v Speaker 1>would always look like without the Tom's of the world. Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>So okay. So any company who is expanding and building

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<v Speaker 1>new stores, any apps that use geo location, everyone needs

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<v Speaker 1>mat makers. You don't. You don't see them very much

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<v Speaker 1>because you're kind of behind the scenes. But they're out there.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom was born in ninety seven in Bakersfield, California. He

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<v Speaker 1>grew up there. He was a boy scout. He's a

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<v Speaker 1>pretty adventurous kid. He loved hiking and exploring and backpacking.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you ever get super lost as a kid? Is

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<v Speaker 1>that why you do what you do? I've never been lost.

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<v Speaker 1>I've been confused a few times, not lost. That's good.

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<v Speaker 1>That means you're a good map maker. I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if I trust a mat maker who gets lost regularly.

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<v Speaker 1>In the sixties, Tom went to college for a semester,

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<v Speaker 1>but it wasn't his thing at the time. The Vietnam

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<v Speaker 1>War was in full swing in nineteen sixty six, he

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<v Speaker 1>decided to join the army instead of getting drafted, so

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<v Speaker 1>he could at least choose where he wanted to go,

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<v Speaker 1>and there was something going on to someplace called Vietnam.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought, well, let's mess go see what's going on

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<v Speaker 1>over there. So you kind of went on a adventure basis.

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<v Speaker 1>I picture sas there's a big, long backpack trip. How

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<v Speaker 1>that's turned out. I was okay ntil the day I

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<v Speaker 1>got shot, and that after that not so much. The

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<v Speaker 1>first six months Tom was in Vietnam, he didn't see

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<v Speaker 1>much action. But then another company got ambushed in a

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<v Speaker 1>nearby village, and so they brought in the rest of

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<v Speaker 1>our battalion surrounded the village. There was a firefight that

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<v Speaker 1>lasted through the night, and the next day they got

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<v Speaker 1>word that there was a battalion of North Vietnamese nearby,

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<v Speaker 1>so they started to pull back. As we're pulling back,

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<v Speaker 1>somebody wagh in the weird decided to walk through artillery

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<v Speaker 1>back to cover us. And they walking back too fast,

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<v Speaker 1>too far, and I got hit by friendly fire. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>fendy fire. Tom got sent home with a purple heart

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<v Speaker 1>and spent about a year in the hospital. He soon

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<v Speaker 1>met his future wife back in the States, and even

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<v Speaker 1>though he wasn't a fan of college, he decided to

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<v Speaker 1>use the benefits from the g I built to go

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<v Speaker 1>back and get his degree. The courses I hated the

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<v Speaker 1>least were geography. He was outdoors and I had this

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<v Speaker 1>curiosity about the world and how things were made, how

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<v Speaker 1>geology and weather, and the geography tended to cover a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of those areas. Kind of the same reason you

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<v Speaker 1>went to Vietnam. You were looking for adventure. Yeah. Right

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<v Speaker 1>after graduating, he became a park ranger in the Redwoods

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<v Speaker 1>area around San Francisco. He loved the outdoors, but he

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<v Speaker 1>got tired of the bureaucracy. So after six years he

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<v Speaker 1>ain't got his masters in geography and he was figuring

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<v Speaker 1>out what to do next. Why it was a park ranger,

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<v Speaker 1>people kept asking where can we get a really good

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<v Speaker 1>map of the park? And parks aren't in that business,

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<v Speaker 1>he says, the Park Service. They make very basic maps,

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<v Speaker 1>rough sketch of the camp ground where the bathrooms are,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe a little bit of history, and it's sufficient for

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<v Speaker 1>most people, but a lot of people really want to

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<v Speaker 1>know more about it. They want to know the elevation

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<v Speaker 1>and trails and the mileages and you know that kind

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<v Speaker 1>of stuff. You know, here's a business here, someplace, somebody

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<v Speaker 1>should do this. I didn't know any better, So after

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<v Speaker 1>I got my master's degree, I just started making maps.

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<v Speaker 1>More on Tom story after the break. A strong work

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<v Speaker 1>ethic takes pride in a job well done, sweats over

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<v Speaker 1>the details. This is you. But to get an honest

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<v Speaker 1>day's work, you need a response, You need a call back,

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<v Speaker 1>You need a job. Express Employment professionals can help because

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<v Speaker 1>we understand what it takes to get a job. It

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<v Speaker 1>takes more than just online searches to land a job.

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<v Speaker 1>It takes someone who will identify your talents, a person

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<v Speaker 1>invested in your success. At Express, we can even complete

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<v Speaker 1>your application with you over the phone, will prepare you

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<v Speaker 1>for interviews, and will connect you to the right company. Plus,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll never charge a fee to find you a job.

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<v Speaker 1>At Express. We could put you to work with companies

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<v Speaker 1>of all sizes and endo race from the production floor

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<v Speaker 1>to the front office. Express Nose Jobs you get to

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<v Speaker 1>no Express. Find your location at Express pros dot com

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<v Speaker 1>or on the Express jobs app. Tom Harrison started by

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<v Speaker 1>doing what he knew. He started making detailed hiking maps

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<v Speaker 1>of the San Francisco area that he'd grown up and

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<v Speaker 1>they weren't very good, but nobody else had anything like it,

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<v Speaker 1>so I kept selling maps and getting customers, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>after a while I had a business. When he started

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<v Speaker 1>in the eighties, all of Tom's maps were done completely

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<v Speaker 1>in pen and ink. I mean when I was in

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<v Speaker 1>grad school. The McIntosh should first come out black and white,

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<v Speaker 1>so cool. So everything was by hand. He would get

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<v Speaker 1>all the maps and guide books that he could find

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<v Speaker 1>on an area and to hiking trails. And I look

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<v Speaker 1>at him and go back and forth and say, well, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a government map, and that's a probably a map,

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<v Speaker 1>and these two guide books, but they don't agree here,

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<v Speaker 1>here and here. He'd go and do more research looking

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<v Speaker 1>for wear maps do agree. He'd make a ton of calls,

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<v Speaker 1>but sometimes when there was just no way to get

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<v Speaker 1>an accurate read on a map, he'd go and figured

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<v Speaker 1>out himself. Just put on the hiking boots and go

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<v Speaker 1>out and hike the trail. So I get him a jeep,

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<v Speaker 1>go out like the trail for a couple of days

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<v Speaker 1>with a major wheel, and make my notations. And he

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<v Speaker 1>ended up with the super accurate, beautifully rendered topographical maps.

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<v Speaker 1>He copied a bunch and started selling them around the

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<v Speaker 1>immediate area map stores, backpacking stores, boat shops, any place

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<v Speaker 1>that would sell a map of the area I was doing.

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<v Speaker 1>His first maps were well received. One map store said

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<v Speaker 1>they take a dozen, but said he should really think

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<v Speaker 1>about talking to a distributor if he was going to

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<v Speaker 1>make any profit. I didn't even know what a distributor was.

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<v Speaker 1>They put him in contact with one and he sold

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<v Speaker 1>more maps to her. That distributor put him in contact

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<v Speaker 1>with another in l A. He said he didn't really

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<v Speaker 1>need any maps of the San Francisco area, but I

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<v Speaker 1>need a map of this and this and this. So

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<v Speaker 1>I went back and I made a map of this

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<v Speaker 1>and this and this. He said, great, keep doing it.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's what else I need. Other companies started seeing his

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<v Speaker 1>work and asked him if they buy his maps for

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<v Speaker 1>their stores, And after about seven years of doing that,

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<v Speaker 1>it got to be the point where I need help

0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:07.920
<v Speaker 1>in the business. So I asked my wife to quit

0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:11.640
<v Speaker 1>her job and she came to work with me. His

0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.120
<v Speaker 1>wife started on the business side of the operation. She

0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.079
<v Speaker 1>handled the fulfillment service that they ran out of the

0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.840
<v Speaker 1>garage for a while, and after thirty four years, Tom's

0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.000
<v Speaker 1>maps can now be found in huge outfitting stores like

0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:27.240
<v Speaker 1>ri I with maps of death Valley, Yosemite, Lake Tahoe,

0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:36.000
<v Speaker 1>the Palisades, and tons of others Over the years. The

0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.360
<v Speaker 1>biggest thing that's changed in Tom's business is the technology,

0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.360
<v Speaker 1>what she says, has actually made the occupation of matt

0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.760
<v Speaker 1>making far more accessible to anyone interested in doing it.

0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.440
<v Speaker 1>For one thing, it's made our life much easier, much smoother.

0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:51.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't need to bend over this light table all day.

0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.600
<v Speaker 1>I can sit down in front of a laptop and

0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.240
<v Speaker 1>do it there. There are plenty of hard skills that

0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.240
<v Speaker 1>are a must when going into cartography. You definitely have

0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.439
<v Speaker 1>to know Adobe Illustrator, and you have to know how

0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.600
<v Speaker 1>to use g i S software g i S Geographic

0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:10.040
<v Speaker 1>Information System basically software where you can analyze, manipulate, and

0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.640
<v Speaker 1>manage geographical data. You almost have to have a reasonably

0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:19.000
<v Speaker 1>decent understanding of printing and how colors are put on paper. Essentially,

0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:21.160
<v Speaker 1>you can create a beautiful map on the computer that

0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.600
<v Speaker 1>might not translate to the printing press. But all of

0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:29.760
<v Speaker 1>these hard skills aside, there's one thing that hasn't changed

0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.600
<v Speaker 1>at all since Tom first started out. In order to

0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.160
<v Speaker 1>be a good map maker and love what you do,

0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:39.199
<v Speaker 1>what you really need is curiosity. You need to know

0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:44.280
<v Speaker 1>understand that what you see and digital data isn't always correct.

0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:54.080
<v Speaker 1>You have to always question everything. What's the truth? Doesn't

0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.400
<v Speaker 1>say what the name of the road is on the map.

0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.520
<v Speaker 1>What is your favorite thing about making maps? You know?

0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:06.959
<v Speaker 1>For me, maps are a kind of a way of meditation,

0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:15.080
<v Speaker 1>very zen like I can I completely clear in my

0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:17.640
<v Speaker 1>mind of anything else. I don't think about any of

0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.840
<v Speaker 1>the problems or issues. I'm just focusing on a map.

0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:27.040
<v Speaker 1>I think this is a lover's lane taking a left

0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:33.440
<v Speaker 1>on And for some reason, that single minded focus makes

0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:41.720
<v Speaker 1>my life easier and clearer. There's something that that's very

0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:46.080
<v Speaker 1>interesting about having yourself spatially oriented to to landscape around you.

0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:55.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh there it is have good pond recreation area. But

0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.560
<v Speaker 1>something about looking at the map and say, oh, I

0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:02.400
<v Speaker 1>always wondered where that us And and then you're out

0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:05.600
<v Speaker 1>there and you're it's like you put it in your mind,

0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:07.920
<v Speaker 1>both the map and the landscape, and they come to

0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:12.480
<v Speaker 1>come together and it's it. It's sort of embeds itself

0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:25.280
<v Speaker 1>and our special memory. For some reason, it's actually pretty warm. Yeah.

0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:29.120
<v Speaker 1>It's like phones make you the center of whatever you're doing,

0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:33.680
<v Speaker 1>wherever you're going, and maps allow you to exist as

0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:37.640
<v Speaker 1>a smaller part of something bigger. Yeah. Yeah, the phone

0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:39.800
<v Speaker 1>is throw I'm right here, but a map is like,

0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:45.920
<v Speaker 1>oh oh that's out there. Yeah, I'm I'm in the

0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:54.880
<v Speaker 1>middle of all this. There's no one out here. There's

0:15:54.960 --> 0:16:01.360
<v Speaker 1>a really slight breeze, really little ripples on the pond.

0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:15.920
<v Speaker 1>I can't believe I've never been here before. To see

0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Tom's maps and learn more about him, you can go

0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.280
<v Speaker 1>to Tom Harrison maps dot com for On the Job

0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:28.880
<v Speaker 1>on Motus Gray, thanks for listening to On the Job,

0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:32.480
<v Speaker 1>brought to you by Express Employment Professionals. This season of

0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:35.480
<v Speaker 1>On the Job is produced by Audiation and Red Seat Ventures.

0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:38.640
<v Speaker 1>The episodes are written and produced by me Otis Gray.

0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.520
<v Speaker 1>Our executive producer is Sandy Smallens. The show is mixed

0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:46.000
<v Speaker 1>by Matt Noble for Audiation Studios at the Loft in Bronxville,

0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:49.680
<v Speaker 1>New York. Music by Blue Dot Sessions. Find us on

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.720
<v Speaker 1>I Heart Radio and Apple Podcasts. If you liked what

0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.120
<v Speaker 1>you heard, please consider rating and reviewing the show on

0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. We'll see you next time.

0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.560
<v Speaker 1>For more inspiring stories about making yourself essential as you

0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:11.800
<v Speaker 1>discover your life's work, audiation