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Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. There's an old adage

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Speaker 1: in athletics that says, no pain, no gain. People have

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Speaker 1: applied that for years and years. I guess it's kind

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Speaker 1: of almost a carot that they hang out in front

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Speaker 1: of themselves so that they can drive on through whatever

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Speaker 1: discomfort that they might have before them to achieve a

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Speaker 1: goal athletically, those things that sit out on the horizon

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Speaker 1: that they see that can I don't know, bring them

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Speaker 1: great success, maybe fortune in some circumstances, but you know,

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Speaker 1: there are just certain things that the physical body will

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Speaker 1: not allow you to push through. There are certain basic

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Speaker 1: needs that we have just from a biological standpoint that

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Speaker 1: if they are not met, we will die and will

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Speaker 1: end in tragedy. And today we're going to discuss one

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Speaker 1: of these tragedies, a case that has finally, finally, after

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Speaker 1: all this time, it's been adjudicated and the family of

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Speaker 1: this young man that where I'm talking about today is

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Speaker 1: finally received something. Of course, it'll never replace a life lost. Today,

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Speaker 1: that life lost is a life of grant brace. I'm

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Bags. I despise

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Speaker 1: anytime I hear a young life has been lost as

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Speaker 1: a result of something that seems so frivolous and so

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Speaker 1: pointless in the big picture, you think about what could

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Speaker 1: have been. And that's one of the great tragedies with

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Speaker 1: deaths involving young people, particularly those that are accomplished things

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Speaker 1: that many of us never could from a physical standpoint,

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Speaker 1: and you see they're brought to their knees by some

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Speaker 1: issue that they're having and maybe it goes unattended, and

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Speaker 1: that's what happened. As always, Dave mac I got to

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Speaker 1: tell you, I'm just amazed by some of these cases

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Speaker 1: that we cover on body bags, but this one, man,

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Speaker 1: it just kind of bored down into my heart.

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Speaker 2: With the death of Grant Brace. Being an athlete, I

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Speaker 2: looked at this because I actually did wrestle in high school.

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Speaker 2: My son Tyler wrestled in high school and went to

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Speaker 2: the state championships, and I know what it takes to

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Speaker 2: be that. I was not that, by the way, just

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Speaker 2: Fay to be clear, I stunk so bad. I lost

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Speaker 2: a wrestling match in twenty eight seconds. I'm not kidding

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Speaker 2: twenty eight seconds. You know how bad you have to

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Speaker 2: be to lose that fast.

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Speaker 1: I really don't because I've never wrestled. I was a

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Speaker 1: football player, but I had a coach that was a

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Speaker 1: state wrestling champion, and he was one of our football coaches,

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Speaker 1: and he said, if you think you've got it tough

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Speaker 1: out here on this practice field in football, you don't

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Speaker 1: know tough until you've wrestled. And that was his contention.

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Speaker 1: So I've always admired him. I've always imagined that it's

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Speaker 1: a tough gig.

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Speaker 2: As somebody who has played sports, loved sports, and coach sports,

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Speaker 2: and have children who have been involved in sports, I

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Speaker 2: will tell you that there's one thing, no two things

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Speaker 2: can't stand in the world of little it's the parents.

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Speaker 2: In the world of high school and college athletics, it's

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Speaker 2: the coaches. When a coach does not respect the body

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Speaker 2: of their athletes when they don't and I'm going to

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Speaker 2: tell you, if you're a coach at any level, you'd

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Speaker 2: have to know what you're doing to your athletes physically.

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Speaker 2: And it's not an excuse. In this day and age,

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Speaker 2: it is not an excuse to say I didn't know.

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Speaker 2: First of all, let me tell you about who grant

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Speaker 2: Brace was. Joe grant Brace. He was one of the best,

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Speaker 2: like kids coming out of Alcoa High School. He graduated

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Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen as a high school wrestler. I looked

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Speaker 2: up his record. You know what it was. He was one,

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Speaker 2: twenty eight and thirty three. He lost thirty three times

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Speaker 2: in his wrestling career in high school and won one

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Speaker 2: hundred and twenty eight times. He played football okay, and

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Speaker 2: was a three time state champion in football, but he

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Speaker 2: was also a member of the National Honors Society. After

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Speaker 2: he graduated, he decided to take his talents to the

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Speaker 2: next level and he became a varsity wrestler on the

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Speaker 2: University of Cumberland's men's team. And yet when he wrote

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Speaker 2: letters to family friends, when he talked to what his

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Speaker 2: biggest fear was. This guy was a people pleaser. I

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Speaker 2: just gave you his background. Oh, by the way, did

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Speaker 2: I mention the three state football championships?

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Speaker 1: I did.

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Speaker 2: This is a team player, a team guy, and believe

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Speaker 2: it or not, wrestling as a team sport. But he

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Speaker 2: was afraid that he wasn't cutting the mustard, that his

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Speaker 2: coaches just were making him not believe in himself. And

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Speaker 2: when you take the confidence away from a player, wow,

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Speaker 2: you've really damaged them. And this guy was damaged. He

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Speaker 2: was so afraid that they were going to cut him

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Speaker 2: loose that he would have done anything they asked. And

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Speaker 2: I think part of that is the reason we're talking

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Speaker 2: about him today. How does somebody who is so physically

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Speaker 2: fit die in the process of working out.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand it either. You know, I'm a university professor,

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Speaker 1: and I'm a big supporter of our athletic programs at

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Speaker 1: my university. I attend many things to a fault, probably

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Speaker 1: when I shouldn't be there. I should be doing something else,

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Speaker 1: but I can't. It makes me feel young when I go,

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Speaker 1: all right, and particularly basketball game. I love going to

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Speaker 1: football games. I love going to the basketball game because

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Speaker 1: I'm right there. I'm in the middle of it. I'm

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Speaker 1: right courtside, yelling and screaming and carrying on. I get

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Speaker 1: caught up in it when you're not there at the

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Speaker 1: actual and you have a chance to go to a practice,

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Speaker 1: particularly at a university, these are fine tuned events, okay,

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Speaker 1: I mean the people that they have that take care

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Speaker 1: of these student athletes are supposed to be at the

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Speaker 1: top of their game. First off, if you've got a

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Speaker 1: staff that is manning a team, you're going to have

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Speaker 1: athletic trainers there. And when you have a trainer, a

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Speaker 1: trainer is not just there to put tape on you.

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Speaker 1: They're there to, first off, if there's any kind of injury,

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Speaker 1: they're going to provide acute care, like if somebody twists

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Speaker 1: their ankle, hurts their knee. These are the people in football,

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Speaker 1: particularly that you'll see running out onto the field. You know,

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Speaker 1: they've got like the back of stuff around their waist,

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Speaker 1: you know, where they can treat people. You know, they

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Speaker 1: pull out all of their gear and whatnot, and they

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Speaker 1: might waive the surgeon over that's on the sideline that

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Speaker 1: serves the team as well. But most of the time

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Speaker 1: that acute care that they're providing at that moment time

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Speaker 1: is needed. But there's something else that trainers do. They

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Speaker 1: monitor their athletes, and the trainer works directly for the

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Speaker 1: head coach and the coaching staff, and so they fill

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Speaker 1: in the coaches on what the status of a player is.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just a matter of looking for individuals

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Speaker 1: that are bruised, that have some kind of orthopedic problem,

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Speaker 1: or even that you might think that have a concussion

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Speaker 1: that they're kind of watching. You have to look for

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Speaker 1: long term chronic things, and many people that participate in

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Speaker 1: sports are also prescribed medication to deal with underlying conditions

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Speaker 1: that they might have in their life. And in Grant's case,

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Speaker 1: Grant had been diagnosed with ADHD as well as narcolepsy,

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Speaker 1: so he's kind of on both ends of the spectrum

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Speaker 1: when you begin to think about the diagnosis. He has

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Speaker 1: attention deficit disorder that he's dealing with causes this kind

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Speaker 1: of hyperactivity in the brain. But then on the other end,

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Speaker 1: you also have narcolepsy, which is a condition where people

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Speaker 1: will and if you've never seen it, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: an amazing thing. I've had my children, my actual children,

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Speaker 1: accuse me of having narcolepsy because as I've gotten older,

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Speaker 1: I'll just spontaneously fall asleep. But that's not the case now.

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Speaker 1: Narcolepsy affects people that are young as well, and they'll

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Speaker 1: just suddenly their brain has been going at such a

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Speaker 1: pace that they'll just drift off their sleep. The next

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Speaker 1: thing you know, you're looking over there and they might

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Speaker 1: have been sitting at a desk and they just fall

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Speaker 1: asleep there. I've seen people that have narcolepsy that have

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Speaker 1: gone to sleep while standing. It's that kind of condition

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Speaker 1: and your brain just like shuts down and so sleep

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Speaker 1: takes over. So he's dealing with this. So he's been

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Speaker 1: diagnosed both of these diagnoses on board now for some time. Probably.

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Speaker 1: He's in a high pressure situation where he's wrestling at

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Speaker 1: the University of the Cumberlands, and the University of Cumberland's,

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Speaker 1: from an academic standpoint, is nothing to sniff at. It's

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Speaker 1: a very rigorous environment and so he has to stay

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Speaker 1: on top of his game, taking care because they are

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Speaker 1: student athletes, not just athletes, they are student athletes. So

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Speaker 1: he's having to contend with all of that. They put

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Speaker 1: him on adderall and adderall is a stimulant, all right,

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Speaker 1: and it seems counterintuitive, but the way adderall works and

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Speaker 1: they've used it for years and years, and it has

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Speaker 1: been controversial over the years with ADHD, the adderall acts

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Speaker 1: as a balance in the brain and keeps you focused.

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Speaker 1: Here's the problem. Adderall can be lethal, absolutely lethal, if

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Speaker 1: you're absent one particular ingredient. And it is something that

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Speaker 1: is so basic. It is something that we take for

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Speaker 1: granted day in and day out. It's something that many

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Speaker 1: of us don't take enough of it in, but when

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Speaker 1: you're an athlete, you need it. That's water, and in

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Speaker 1: Grant's case, he didn't have any. Dave, I've got a son,

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Speaker 1: as you well know, that's in the middle of a

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Speaker 1: college career right now. He's doing quite well. I cannot imagine.

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Speaker 1: I cannot even begin to plumb the depths of sorrow

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Speaker 1: that would be on the receiving end of a phone

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Speaker 1: call when you find out that this child that you

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Speaker 1: have raised, that has been your everything to a great

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Speaker 1: degree in life since the moment they were born, or

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Speaker 1: maybe since the moment you knew that they were on

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Speaker 1: the way, and suddenly they are gone.

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Speaker 2: It breaks my heart to just think of what this

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Speaker 2: entire family has gone through. Grant Brace, at twenty years old,

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Speaker 2: in great health. You mentioned narcolepsy and ADHD, something he

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Speaker 2: had been dealing with for a number of years and

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Speaker 2: have been treated with the adderall. And I didn't know

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Speaker 2: that ADHD or that adderall rather was used to treat

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Speaker 2: both of these narcolepsy and ADHD. As an athlete, I

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Speaker 2: expect the coaches and the trainers know every athlete on

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Speaker 2: their team what they're like medically. I mean are they

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Speaker 2: taking medication. Is this an athlete that has diabetes for example.

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Speaker 2: They would have to know these things. They're in charge

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Speaker 2: of our children, of our young people while they're working

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Speaker 2: them out. This is on the first day of practice. Now,

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Speaker 2: remember Grant Brace as a wrestler, has already gone through

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Speaker 2: his freshman year. He's in now a sophomore, and this

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Speaker 2: is the first day of wrestling practice. And as they

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Speaker 2: went through practice, all of the wrestlers had a bottle

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Speaker 2: of water. They were told when they got to the field,

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Speaker 2: fill your water bottle over here, get running. That was

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Speaker 2: the first thing first day of practice. Okay, yeah, you've

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Speaker 2: got a bottle of water, don't touch it. You've got

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Speaker 2: a player on your team. You've got a wrestler who

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Speaker 2: takes a medication for diagnosed medical issues, and one of

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Speaker 2: the main things he has to have with this medication

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Speaker 2: is water, and you're telling him he can't have it.

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Speaker 2: You're telling somebody they can't have something they have to have. Joe,

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Speaker 2: if you found out somebody did this to your son,

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Speaker 2: I ask you, would you not want somebody to do something?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because that makes such a big deal. You've seen

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Speaker 1: these things on social media where these kids come out

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Speaker 1: and they have the signing day, and the coaches from

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Speaker 1: your high school are there. Of course, the recruiter from

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Speaker 1: the university is there, and they have various hats that

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Speaker 1: they put on, and they make a big deal out

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Speaker 1: of this. And the thing that always gets me is

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Speaker 1: that they always use the term. People throw around the

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Speaker 1: term family a lot. Right, Oh, we're all one big family.

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Speaker 1: No you're not. That's something that you used to sell things.

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Speaker 1: All right, you have a family, and ain't nobody going

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Speaker 1: to take care of you like mom and daddy do.

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Speaker 1: And if you're a mom and dad, you're trusting these

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Speaker 1: individuals with your child. And granted, you know, I still

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Speaker 1: view an eighteen year old as a child, particularly if

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Speaker 1: they're going off to college. They're not going off into

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Speaker 1: the military and having to make their own way or

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Speaker 1: whatever it is. They're not going out and putting on

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Speaker 1: a hard hat and doing work like this. They're actually

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Speaker 1: going to be in a university setting. Is a change

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Speaker 1: in academia from what they're used to in high school.

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Speaker 1: The rigor that they're going to find at the college

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Speaker 1: is going to be different. The rigor out on the

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Speaker 1: sports field is going to be different. There's going to

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Speaker 1: be a higher expectation, and they can hold things over

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Speaker 1: your head. They can say, well, look, if you don't

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Speaker 1: want to lose your scholarship or you don't want to

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Speaker 1: lose whatever benefit that you have at the University of

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Speaker 1: This is an NAIA school. This is not like a

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Speaker 1: big time university, so they have limited resources in order

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Speaker 1: to kind of offer up to the students. They're not

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Speaker 1: going to have kids necessarily that are on full rides,

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Speaker 1: you know when you think about some huge SEC school

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Speaker 1: or big ten school or something like that. But still

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Speaker 1: they're student athletes, and so you're trusting your kids with

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Speaker 1: these people to take care of them, and one of

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Speaker 1: the things that you have to do constantly is monitor

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Speaker 1: monitor their status, particularly when they're involved in this rigorous

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Speaker 1: physical training. It's my understanding that Grant, according to the

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Speaker 1: coaching staff, was at least what they were saying, was

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Speaker 1: not performing up to what they think that he should

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Speaker 1: have been performing up to the level desired level, and

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Speaker 1: he was actually having to he was being engaged in

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Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong about this day, but in

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Speaker 1: punishment practice.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, what happens on wrestling and in football a

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Speaker 2: lot of times there will be punishment practice for those

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Speaker 2: who underperform during practice or at a match or what

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Speaker 2: have you. In this particular case, Joe, this is the

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Speaker 2: first practice. Okay, how underperforming can somebody be to have

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Speaker 2: to endure a punishment practice. In the case of Grant Brace,

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Speaker 2: they had gone through this first practice. The coaches told

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Speaker 2: him throw their water bottles off to the side, and

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Speaker 2: after the practice was concluded, all of the drills have

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Speaker 2: been run, all the workouts have been done. Now they

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Speaker 2: come to the hill. This is a hill that I

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Speaker 2: can't remember. I think it was like a forty five

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Speaker 2: degree angle. I could be really wrong on that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that it was two hundred feet in

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Speaker 1: linked and probably roughly about a forty percent incline I think.

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Speaker 2: And there you go. That was what they called punishment hill,

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Speaker 2: punishment practice. And so at the end of practice, if

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Speaker 2: they were underperforming, they would get ridden really hard. If

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Speaker 2: they were having a bad day, bad week, whatever it was.

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Speaker 2: This was at the end of practice. Okay, so you've

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Speaker 2: already gone through everything else, You've already done all the drills,

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Speaker 2: you've done all the workouts, and you're pretty exhausted right

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Speaker 2: about now. But now comes punishment hill. And at the

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Speaker 2: end of punishment hill, that's where your gym is. That's

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Speaker 2: where you go to take the clothes off and you know,

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Speaker 2: get showered and all that. And yet you don't get

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Speaker 2: to do that. You have to go up and down. Now,

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Speaker 2: Grand preys, I want to point something out, Joseph. You

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Speaker 2: pointed out the Naia school versus the NC Double A,

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Speaker 2: and it is a it's not so much a different division.

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Speaker 2: It's just a division for colleges that are a little smaller.

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Speaker 2: You're not competing against Alabama and Auburn, you're competing against

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Speaker 2: like sized schools. And yet the NIAI bans and it

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Speaker 2: things just like the NC Double A does. And by

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Speaker 2: the way, when they do regular drug testing it this

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Speaker 2: was if somebody is taking adderall and is not prescribed

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Speaker 2: to them, that would cause them to fail a drug test.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it would. And because it is it is,

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Speaker 1: in fact, as we previously mentioned, a stimulant. And from

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Speaker 1: their perspective, a stimulant is going to give somebody a

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Speaker 1: decided advantage. But with adderall, if you're taking it on board,

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Speaker 1: and I know in Grant's case it was allowed, but

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Speaker 1: they being the coaching staff, the training staff had been

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Speaker 1: made aware that, Okay, this is what you have to do.

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Speaker 1: If you have somebody on adderall you have to keep

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Speaker 1: them hydrated. If you don't, it can wind up in

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Speaker 1: a terminal event and guess what happens. He's being denied water.

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Speaker 1: It's absolutely horrific when you think about it. And listen

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Speaker 1: when I say trainer or by person that's on the

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Speaker 1: training staff. We're not talking about in high school, some

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Speaker 1: small high school where you've got a kid that's really

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Speaker 1: good in science and maybe he's not on the football

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Speaker 1: team or the wrestling team. They say, hey, we think

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Speaker 1: you'd make a good trainer. We're going to come out

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Speaker 1: here and teach you how to tape people up. We're

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Speaker 1: going to teach you how to hydrate people with gatorade

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Speaker 1: or whatever it is that you're pumping in them. When

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Speaker 1: they hand down judgments of like fourteen million dollars, that

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Speaker 1: means means that your staff has to have the ability

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Speaker 1: from a training standpoint to recognize, to recognize when people

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Speaker 1: are starting to demonstrate things that present symptom standpoint, like dehydration.

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Speaker 1: You're looking for things like disorientation, You're looking for things

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Speaker 1: just like dry mouth, or where they can't catch their breath.

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Speaker 1: You'll have people that will seize, You'll have individuals that

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Speaker 1: will hallucinate, and of course at the end you have

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Speaker 1: people that will go into full blown cardiac arrest.

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Speaker 2: In the case of Grant I want to point this

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Speaker 2: out in a very heavy handed manner because it deserves it,

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Speaker 2: because I'm hoping that when you hear this, you will

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Speaker 2: pass this along to every coach you know, to every

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Speaker 2: parent of an athlete you know. In this particular case

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Speaker 2: of Grant Brace, not only were the coaches aware, they

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Speaker 2: had to file an exemption with the NAIA in order

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Speaker 2: for Grant Brace to even be on the team. This

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Speaker 2: was not just a matter of oh, coach, he's aware.

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Speaker 2: Here's a little signature from mom and dad saying it's okay.

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Speaker 2: The doctors have to sign off the coach. Everybody is aware,

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Speaker 2: and the NAIA is aware that he's taking this medication

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Speaker 2: to treat narcolepsy and ADHD. And by the way, they

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Speaker 2: are all informed that one of the things this student

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Speaker 2: athlete has to have more than anybody else, he has

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Speaker 2: to be hydrated. Whatever rules you have for hydration water

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Speaker 2: at practice do not apply to this student athlete. He

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Speaker 2: has to have it. While they were running Punishment Hill,

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Speaker 2: he got so sick of the whole thing. He stopped

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Speaker 2: and he went he said, fine, I'm done. He went

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Speaker 2: through an entire freshman year with this. He gets out

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Speaker 2: there for the first practice and they're already he's not

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Speaker 2: just getting it from the coaches, He's getting it from

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Speaker 2: his own teammates. They're all riding him okay, like he's

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Speaker 2: a bicycle. They're riding him hard to the point where

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Speaker 2: he can't take it anymore. But he's also an athlete.

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Speaker 2: He's proud, he's a winner. He turns around and he

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Speaker 2: comes back to practice knowing that they're going to heap

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Speaker 2: even more on him, and Grant Brace pushed himself even

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Speaker 2: harder to tackle that hill. And you know what, for

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Speaker 2: the first several times, that kid made it, that twenty

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Speaker 2: year old young man made it up Punishment Hill several times.

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Speaker 2: But then he started showing signs. What would I show

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Speaker 2: if I am in the first stages running into a

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Speaker 2: problem with hydration more than just I'm thirsty. Now I'm

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Speaker 2: past that. I've gone through my second wind, which a

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Speaker 2: lot of people know about. I'm past that. I need

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Speaker 2: something to drink and I'm willing to eat grass to

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Speaker 2: get it. What am I? What am I going through? Physically?

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Speaker 2: What do I look like? What do I sound like? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: It is palpable when and I mean that from the

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Speaker 1: sense of the people that are witnessing it, and particularly

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Speaker 1: those individuals. That's why I'm so shocked by this, particularly

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Speaker 1: those individuals that should know better, because you'll see individuals

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Speaker 1: that will just from the dehydration. Now we're okay, there's

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Speaker 1: two separate things that work here, and we have to

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Speaker 1: draw the line. Not only do we have this drug

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Speaker 1: adderall that creates problems, but then you have this idea

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Speaker 1: of hyperthermia and you have the idea of dehydration. Because

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Speaker 1: you've got all three of these in the mix now,

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Speaker 1: and some of these things kind of cross communicate when

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Speaker 1: you begin to think about it. Some of the presentations

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Speaker 1: with dehydration, some of the things that you're going to

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Speaker 1: be looking for is that you'll have excessive sweating. Like

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Speaker 1: you'll see somebody that'll be like profusely sweating, right, okay,

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Speaker 1: and they're probably not necessarily screaming at the top of

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Speaker 1: their lungs to hydrate at that point in time, Particularly

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Speaker 1: an athlete they're trying to push through. Here's the problem.

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Speaker 1: When they stop sweating and nothing is given to them,

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Speaker 1: that's a problem, all right. When they don't have the

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Speaker 1: ability to they'll have kind of a flushed red appearance

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Speaker 1: to them. Many times, you'll have vomiting and diarrhea again,

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Speaker 1: just like you'll have sometimes with adderall your nervous system

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Speaker 1: will begin to react as well. You'll have nervousness. You

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Speaker 1: can have hallucinations, you can have individuals that will literally

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Speaker 1: be talking out of their head. You'll also have people

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Speaker 1: that will be reactionary, like don't get between them in

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Speaker 1: a drink of water, for instance. Okay, because it's so

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Speaker 1: they are thirsty to death. Literally, they'll do anything they

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Speaker 1: can do. And that actually happened in Grant's presentation. He

386
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Speaker 1: was trying to get to water. He's pushing people aside

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Speaker 1: trying to get there, and he can't and water is

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Speaker 1: not being provided to him at all, and he's screaming,

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Speaker 1: I'm thirsty, I'm thirsty, Please help me. It's even at

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Speaker 1: one moment in time that he goes over and tries

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Speaker 1: to go into a cooler where there is ice and

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Speaker 1: to bury his face in it. To cover his body

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Speaker 1: in it because he can feel. Because it starts internally,

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Speaker 1: you sense it externally. The heat that maybe you're in

395
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: the blazing sun or whether the case might be, but

396
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 1: you'll get this presentation will kind of rise up from

397
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Speaker 1: within you. Inside your brain is telling the rest of

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Speaker 1: your body, we need to hydrate, we need to hydrate,

399
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Speaker 1: and it's just not coming. And they're looking for any

400
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Speaker 1: way to quench this unquenchable thirst at this point in time.

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Speaker 1: Tremendous headaches as well that you'll see these people have,

402
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Speaker 1: and a lot of this goes to this idea of

403
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Speaker 1: not being able to hydrate in the sense that the

404
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: brain is screaming as well. The brain is a huge

405
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Speaker 1: percentage of the brain is actually water. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if a lot of people know that, but the makeup

407
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Speaker 1: of the brain is that a good proportion of the

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Speaker 1: brain is heavily depended upon hto and of course, in

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Speaker 1: Grant's case, it wasn't there. Dave, I'm going to throw

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Speaker 1: a turn out to you and might not have heard before.

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Speaker 1: My guess is that our listeners that are involved in

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Speaker 1: medicine will have But there's a term that's used as

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Speaker 1: it applies to the skin, and it's called turger t

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Speaker 1: u r g o r here pronounced turger. Some people

415
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Speaker 1: say turg wre, but turger. And it has to do

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Speaker 1: with the rigidity of the skin. And as the skin

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Speaker 1: begins to lose the cells let's just say as opposed

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Speaker 1: to actually you think the skin, But the skin is

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Speaker 1: made up of cells, right, and so as those cells

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Speaker 1: become depleted of hydration, when let's say the skin is

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Speaker 1: pressed or squeezed, the skin will no longer react normally.

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Speaker 1: It won't bounce back, okay, And a lot of that

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Speaker 1: has to do with dehydration. And one of the tough

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Speaker 1: things when you're in the morgan you're attempting to you

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Speaker 1: have a case where you think that what you're dealing

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Speaker 1: with might be dehydration. One of the things that well,

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Speaker 1: there's too things that you look for big things. First off,

428
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: you're going to look for the skin turger. And it's

429
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: not just the skin either where else it exists. It

430
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 1: actually exists on the surface of the organs as well.

431
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: So you can see, like when you go to examine

432
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,959
Speaker 1: a liver at autopsy or at the kidneys for instance,

433
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: kidneys are really impacted drastically by dehydration the surface of

434
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: the lungs. Did you know that concurrently they are they

435
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: respond negatively in a physical presentation to an absence of

436
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: hydration as well, So they have an expected level of

437
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: turger with them as well. So when you depress those organs,

438
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: because that's one of the things you do with gross

439
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: examination at autopsy, when you remove the organs, you actually

440
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 1: look at the organ, You touch it, you palpated, you

441
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: see how it looks, how it feels, that sort of thing,

442
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 1: and you can actually sense that when you're touching these

443
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: organs it won't respond back the same way. The other

444
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: thing that you look for, and this is something that

445
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: people can kind of file away for future reference, is

446
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: the color of urine. When you begin to see see

447
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: urine that is no longer kind of the yellowish clear color,

448
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: and it begins to get progressively darker till it turns brown.

449
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: You're in a real danger zone there. And one of

450
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: the reasons that's happening. Remember what I said about the

451
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: kidneys just a second ago. The kidneys act as a filter,

452
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: and they're beginning to not be able to process these

453
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: toxins that are in our system that normally they can

454
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 1: kind of aid and filtering these things out, and it's

455
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: presenting in the urine because there's an absence of water,

456
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 1: there's a real imbalance there, so the urine itself will

457
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 1: turn like really dark brown. And of course we draw

458
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: urine at autopsy and send it in and do drug

459
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: panels and all those sorts of things, and you can

460
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: appreciate it there as well. You can also appreciate it

461
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 1: in the fluids of the eyes, which is the vitreous

462
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,959
Speaker 1: fluid that we draw out of the eyes at autopsy.

463
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: So there's any number of ways, and it's more of

464
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: what we refer to as a diagnosis of exclusion. You

465
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: can have things that are like really really over the top,

466
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: like you've got some really nasty disease that somebody is

467
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: suffering from, whether it's a heart disease or a cancer

468
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: or something like that, and you say, aha, this is

469
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: what brought about their death or trauma. If you're thinking

470
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 1: about gunshot wound or anything like that. Aha, that's what.

471
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: But dehydration is one of the things that you have

472
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 1: to be really fine tuned from a diagnostic standpoint. So

473
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: that's why what happened to Grant during those fatal moments

474
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: there when he's begging for water. He's asking for water,

475
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 1: and no one is accommodating him on any level. They're

476
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: not treating him. That's one of the reasons that that

477
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence and the eyewitness statements, because his teammates witness

478
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: this happening as well.

479
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: I wanted to go back to that, Joe Grant Brace.

480
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 2: He is at the end of practice. By the way,

481
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: this part of punishment practice, the coaches claimed that one

482
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 2: of the players, because they have to do fundraising. You

483
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier the difference between a NCAA big school versus

484
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 2: an NAI school. Well, at the NAI level, in some

485
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 2: cases they have to raise their own money for uniforms

486
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 2: and such, and that was something that they had done

487
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 2: in the off season, and at this first practice, apparently

488
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 2: one of the players did not meet his quota for

489
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 2: what he was supposed to raise, and so that was

490
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: their reason that day for punishment Hill. Granted, they all

491
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 2: had varying degrees of success on punishment Hill, but think

492
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,719
Speaker 2: about this. You're at the end of practice, it's your

493
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 2: first practice, it's August, it's the heat of the day,

494
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: and Grant Brace has run up the hill seven times

495
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:44,239
Speaker 2: successfully Now, what would Grant Brace look like based on

496
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 2: all of the medical stuff that we know, as he

497
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 2: has completed it seven times and he's begging for water,

498
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: and the coaches turn on him and say, go clean

499
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 2: out your locker. You're done. That's what Grant Brace was

500
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 2: faced with when his body was crying out for water.

501
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: You want water, go clear out your locker. I want

502
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: you didn't know that, because would he at that level? Joe,

503
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: you mentioned how the brain is made up of water,

504
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: and now a lot of things make sense to me

505
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 2: about people who are dehydrated and are going through different

506
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 2: parts of this that they start speaking crazy. I didn't

507
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 2: realize the brain was so much water. So now you're

508
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: dehydrating on every level. A coach tells you you're done,

509
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 2: go clear out your locker, and yet you force yourself

510
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: to get out there and keep trying. What is going

511
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: to happen to you in front of everybody. We've got

512
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 2: other players throwing up. I've thrown up in practice before.

513
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not an uncommon thing to happen. But

514
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: what's the difference But between somebody overworking in the heat

515
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: versus somebody who's really suffering and headed down a path

516
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 2: to death.

517
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: Well, and not just that, and one of the things

518
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: you're going to look at, obviously are also going to

519
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: be the eyes as well. Sometimes the people's will actually

520
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: blow out big dark circles, that sort of thing. It

521
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: almost looks like.

522
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: Shock during workout. I mean you would see that like

523
00:29:59,160 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: a practice.

524
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, when they're phasing into this status of dehydration,

525
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: and so it's a neurological response. And here's another key thing,

526
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: because you mentioned how bought in he is in being

527
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: the people pleaser and that he wants to succeed. They're

528
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: already talking about washing you out right. Can you imagine

529
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: you're going through all of this physical trauma and your

530
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: brain is beginning to shut down already, and now you

531
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: got this individual is telling you that they're going to

532
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: train wreck you. Now go clean out your locker, and

533
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: all of us that have been in athletics know what

534
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: that means. When they say clean out your locker, that

535
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: means you're done, dude. And so you have that stimulus

536
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: coming in as well, and so anything that's going on

537
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: with him physically is going to be even more damaging

538
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: at that point in time. Virtue of this kind of

539
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: stimulus that's coming in. Even if he can, and here's

540
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: the problem, you don't know what he could perceive at

541
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: a higher level at that point in time. Would that

542
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: heap on more anxiety on top of everything he's dealing with,

543
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: because you know, anxiety is one of the things that

544
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: an individual that's going through the status of dehydration and hyperthermia,

545
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: they deal with anxiety as well because this builds up

546
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: in them. And I think one of the issues, Dave,

547
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: with me that is really horrible about this is that

548
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: I don't want I'm not trying to be dramatic here,

549
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: but people need to understand. Dehydration is actually a punishment

550
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: that has been used for prisoners of war. Okay. It's

551
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: denial of like a basic necessity, okay. And there's some

552
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: people that deny themselves certain things in life because they

553
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: see it. Some people on spiritual journey they're trying to

554
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: purify themselves and all those sorts of things. Generally it

555
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: involves food, not water, but that's one of the things.

556
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: And it was it gave me pause because and I

557
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: know you're going to know this name when I mentioned it, Dave,

558
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: do you remember Savannah Harden, nine years old in a tal, Alabama.

559
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: That was like what back in like twenty twelve. Remember

560
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: she was being punished because she snuck some candy or

561
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: something and.

562
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 2: She was eate a piece of chocolate on the school bus.

563
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, on the school bus, and she was made to

564
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: march around or walk around the yard carrying wood, carrying

565
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: like firewood around in this is a nine year old girl.

566
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: And this is not too dissimilar from what Grant experienced.

567
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: And so you're actually weaponizing a condition like dehydration, and

568
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 1: then you combine what Grant was already going through relative

569
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: to ADHD narcolepsy, and have an adderall on board, where

570
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: it's one of these things that has to be so

571
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: fine tuned you have to pay attention to it, and

572
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine that. Look, the NAIA has a rule

573
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: in play specifically dealing with student athletes that are on adderall.

574
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: So you know what that tells me, Dave. That tells

575
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: me that this is not the first time that someone

576
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: has had adderall in their system, and that I haven't

577
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: heard about any of those people passing away. So that

578
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: means that there were things in place, There were mechanisms

579
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: in place to treat this. They had an awareness of it,

580
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: and I think that that goes to a great degree

581
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: of liability here.

582
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 2: There's other things that happened. At the end of practice.

583
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: They had a little meeting, okay, after they've gone punishment Hill,

584
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 2: after they've done the whole practice and punishment Hill, and

585
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 2: Grant was told to go clean out his locker, but

586
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 2: he came back and forced him. He did complete practice.

587
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: He finished that practice. That's the heart of a champion

588
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: that could do that. This guy, he would not give up.

589
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 2: Joe And so at the end of practice, before they

590
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 2: let the team go in there to the weight room

591
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: to go ahead and start cooling down, they were having

592
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 2: a quick little team meeting and at that point other

593
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 2: wrestlers said that Grant couldn't stand up, and he told them,

594
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 2: I can't stand up. I can't see. He was holding

595
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 2: onto a branch of a tree, and witnesses said that

596
00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: his pupils were twitching, his eyes were twitching. He said, guys,

597
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 2: I need water, I need water. When they finally did

598
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: get back to the wrestling room, he laid down you

599
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 2: mentioned him, you know, sticking his face in the ice.

600
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 2: He couldn't even get it all together to help himself.

601
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 2: At that point, I need water. He just kept saying that.

602
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 2: Do you know what else happened? Joe Inside the training room,

603
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 2: one of the teammates attempted to wrap ice in a

604
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: towel and place it on Grant to help him cool down,

605
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 2: and a coach stopped him, said get away from him.

606
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: Grant Ben begins to speak gibberish inside the room and

607
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 2: he charged a teammate. He physically charged at another teammate

608
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 2: and then ran out of the gym begging for water.

609
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: Can you explain what's going on with that? I don't

610
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: How does that happen?

611
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean he's totally disoriented at this point in time.

612
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: The one thing that he knows, and it's it's at

613
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: a base level within him, is that he needs to hydrate.

614
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: He needs to get and you know there I saw

615
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: a video Dave, and it almost it and again it

616
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: made me reflect my own children, their CCTV video of

617
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: him outside banging on doors, pulling on doors, trying to

618
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: get back in, trying to find water just so that

619
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: he can quench that thirst that seems absolutely unquenchable. His

620
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: tank was absolutely empty at that point in time, and

621
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: it's not too long thereafter it turned in to a

622
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: fatal event.

623
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 2: The University of Cumberland's in Kentucky agreed to a fourteen

624
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 2: point one million dollars settlement with the family of grand Brace.

625
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 2: They filed a civil lawsuit. No criminal charges wherever filed

626
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 2: in this case. The lawsuit that was filed a year

627
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 2: after Brace's death alleged that the University of the athletic

628
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 2: director and coaches were negligent and failed to provide him

629
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 2: with medical aid that could have prevented his death. They

630
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: also alleged to coaches has created an atmosphere of fear

631
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 2: of intimidation in the wrestling program through manipulation and abuse.

632
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 2: Those two coaches were no longer employed by the school

633
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 2: by the time this civil suit was settled, but again

634
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 2: the family was given fourteen point one million dollars and

635
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 2: there were no criminal charges filed.

636
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags