WEBVTT - Featuring Justin Baldoni 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:06.040 M Hey guys, and welcome back to this week's episode 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:08.119 of a Let's Be a Podcast. This week I got 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:13.080 to chat with the incredibly talented director, author, actor, filmmaker 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:16.759 Justin Baldoni. Now you may know him from Jane the Virgin, 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.040 or you may know him from his book Man Enough 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.000 or the Man Enough podcast which he hosts, which really 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:25.840 breaks down the stigma of toxic male masculinity. And then 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:28.000 this episode we talk a lot about that. We talk 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:31.440 about the fakeness of social media, being enough as just 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:33.320 who you are, and I go into more of my 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.040 mental health struggles and my journey. I hope you guys 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:44.480 enjoyed this episode. Ye. So I just want to start 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:47.240 out by saying this, and I don't say this lately. 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.040 Your podcast makes me want to become a better human 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:55.959 um and I know that through creating a podcast, just 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:58.000 when I've done in the past three years. It's a 0:00:58.040 --> 0:00:59.720 lot of work, and it's a lot of effort that 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:01.800 people we don't see, and especially when you're doing it 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.480 on a platform you don't know who's listening, and it 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:06.840 can sometimes feel like, at least I felt like you're 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:09.080 putting in all this work and not sure if it's 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.320 even being acknowledged. But I want you to know that 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:18.119 I think that this podcast man Enough his truly changing 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:20.679 a lot. It's making me want to reflect on how 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:22.640 I can grow as a person. And I think you 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.520 are doing the mission you set out to do. Wow, 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.880 I mean, ja, that's so kind of you. Thank you 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:33.160 that really that really means a lot. I appreciate that 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:36.240 very much. And you know, the topic of being man 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:40.560 enough and male masculinity is so interesting. We had Kevin 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:43.399 Love on for the season two finale and he talked 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.720 about having a panic attack on the basketball court. And 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.000 yet these are things that are so common. I've struggled 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:53.200 with anxiety my entire life in O c D. There's 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.040 such a stigma with it and mental health. And I've 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:58.320 said this before, but it's just like you're supposed to 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:00.320 work out your body, you're supposed to work out your mind. 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:03.320 And that's one of the great things about talking things out. 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:05.640 Yet there's such a stigma with it. Where do you 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:10.040 think this stigma is rooted in? And by having these conversations, 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:12.920 how do you think we can break it? Well, first 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:16.880 of all, you're an awesome podcast host. Oh my god, 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:22.400 thank you mean it's really hard to ask questions and like, 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.120 first of all, yeah, you're just you're just doing you're 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:28.079 doing it, all right. You're better than I am, far 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:32.720 better than I am. Absolutely not all right. So thank 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.400 you for talking about your anxiety. I think that it's 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:38.360 wonderful that young people are talking about that. It took 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:44.760 me thirty something years to even realize that I had anxiety. 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:49.760 And I'm thirty seven now and i still feel like 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.920 i'm twenty one. But I'm thirty seven though, and I'm 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:54.840 just really getting to the root of it for me. 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:58.120 So it's really important to talk about what is the 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:03.079 root of how this started. I mean a combination of 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:05.640 a lot of things. Self preservation is one of them. 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:07.520 I think that we live in a we live in 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.040 a culture where we've all been socialized, especially men, to 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:17.040 believe that any sort of perceived weakness means that we 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:21.840 are not men, that we are not strong. Like it's 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.600 like this strange idea, But what do you does that 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.880 even mean? It doesn't mean anything. It's all it's all, 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:30.720 you know. I don't think I'm allowed to swear on this, 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.880 but it's all crapy. Justin you've got young listeners it's no, 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:36.640 no, no no, no, no, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be good. 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:40.720 You know what. See I broke it, Oh Sammy Jay 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:45.240 with swear with the F bomb. Um. Look, it's it's 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.160 just this whole idea of we think that we have 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:52.280 to be a certain way to be considered strong, and 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:54.880 yet the entire definition of strength and bravery, I think, 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:59.280 is backwards. It's all rooted in external things like this 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.560 idea that if I'm physically strong, that I'm strong. If 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:06.040 I am physically brave, meaning if I go and take 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:10.080 physical risks, if I risk my life to help somebody else, 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:14.040 then I'm brave. Right, But we completely forget what I 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:16.280 believe the true definition of strength and bravery is, which 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:21.360 is internal. For sure. Absolutely, it's not about taking physical risks, 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:25.280 about taking emotional risks. It's not about physical strength. It's 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:28.000 about emotional strength. You can't have. You can look, you 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.479 can be the strongest man in the entire world, but 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:33.080 if you have a panic attack and you don't know 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.280 what it is, you are as weak as you could 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:40.320 ever be because you don't have the emotional vocabulary to 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.200 first of all, understand what's happening to you, and second 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:45.680 of all, you don't have the emotional strength in the 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.560 bravery to ask for help. So what do you do? 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.000 These things debilitate us. It's kind of like being super 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.440 strong and stubbing your pinky toe. That's the worst, by 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:57.760 the way, it's the worst, right you can be. Like 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.479 you see like these uh, these strong young men, like 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:02.640 they can lift cars, they stubb their pinky toe and 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:06.000 they're down down for the count. Well, it's the same thing. 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:07.160 It's so like you could as strong as you want, 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.880 but if you're not dealing with your your actual mental health, 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:14.159 your emotional health, your well being, your spiritual health, then 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.520 you're just a shell. You're just a suit of armor. 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.000 That's so true. And I think one of the things 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.440 that I've been in therapy since I was like seven, Um, 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.080 I grew up with learning disabilities my entire life, and 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.600 I thought I was incapable of learning. I learned that 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:31.239 wasn't true. Been there. But there are so many people 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.240 that think that they are incapable of learning, that they 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.120 are stupid, and which in turn, specifically like a d 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.440 h D for example, looks very different on guys than 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:43.680 it does girls. And I think guys in the classroom 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.920 they're being pointed as disruptive and if they feel sad 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.960 or discourage, what society has taught us is to channel 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:55.880 anger instead of to actually feel that. Um, there's uh 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.360 Anthony Ramos, one of my favorite musicians. He has a 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:01.880 quote in a song about kind of toxic male masculinity 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.680 and he says, why am I pushing away with silence 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.720 has to say? And I feel like sometimes we need 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:11.760 to embrace that, embrace the feelings we are having and 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.760 let ourselves feel that. What is the journey been like 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.719 for you to go through that? While you've acted, you've directed, 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.920 What is the process of doing that while managing your 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:26.840 career and being a happy person? Wow? The great question. 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:32.000 Let's separate the happy person thing because the idea like 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:36.719 happiness starts with contentment, right, It starts with it starts 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:39.680 with appreciating what you have. It starts with gratitude. And 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:41.880 there's been a lot of times over the last decade 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:45.360 where I haven't been happy and I have no idea why. 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.359 I'm just looking around like I have everything? What's wrong? 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:53.200 And nobody talks about that? Oh, absolutely right, because we're 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.480 sold this idea of the American dream, right, this capitalistic patriot, 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.359 patriarchal society that we live in, that if you just 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:02.200 acquire an off then you'll be good, right, because so 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.039 many people don't have. If you can figure out how 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.360 to acquire, if you can reach the top of the pyramid, 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.840 or even midway up, then you're good. Yeah, it's not. 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:12.960 That's not the case, because it starts with contentment, it 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.040 starts with happiness. It starts with the inside. It's not 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:17.840 the x the outside, it's not the external. And were 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:20.840 sold this idea that happiness comes from the external, from 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:22.640 the outside. Look at social media, look at everything that 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:26.800 we're seeing. It's all coming from external forces. But it 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.880 will only ever stick if it comes from inside, from 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.400 doing the work and looking at the person in the 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.400 mirror and figuring out if you actually like what you see, 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:38.360 if you like the person staring back at you. If 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:40.280 you don't, no matter what you do, it's a house 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.760 of cards. You don't have a foundation. So for me, 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.320 what it looked like is this, As I started doing 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:50.760 this work, as I started truly healing, I was doing 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.760 it very much publicly. I'm doing and I'm not even 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:56.280 going to use the past tense. I am doing it 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:01.040 very publicly you would love promo. I am trying to 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:03.120 figure it out in real time, and I did that 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.160 on purpose. One is, nobody ever did that for me. 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:07.760 I never saw anybody hell in real time. I never 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:11.560 saw anybody that I looked up to talk about their 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:15.800 broken parts. And that's a massive problem because if you 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:18.640 don't see it, you can't be it. And if you 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.040 don't see it, then that means that you feel like 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:23.800 you're the only one. So growing up for me as 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:26.160 a man, I didn't know that I had anxiety until 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.360 I was in my thirties. I had no idea that 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:32.840 I had ever really been depressed until I was in 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.600 my thirties and I started really looking at Wow, I 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.280 feel really sleepy today. I feel really tired, but I 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:39.839 got sleep I don't really want to go out of bed. 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.720 I feel tightness in my chest? What is that? Normally 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:45.080 I would just want I would just go through it. 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:46.880 As I'm a man, I'm gonna do. That's what we do. 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:51.400 We pushed through everything. Conqueror, right, That's what we're taught 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.280 growing up. We have to be no pay, no gain, 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:58.320 just push push push push. Yeah, like, man up, what 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.600 does that even mean? That's it? Man up? Be man enough. 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.800 That was my entire life as an athlete. Right, You 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:08.720 get muscles by pushing, pushing, pushing, and then we do 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.680 the same thing with everything else in life. Look at sports. 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.000 You watch these guys they break their freaking legs and 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:16.080 they think they have to keep playing. What does that do? 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:18.479 And they can't walk when they're older, they're in wheelchairs. 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:20.760 You look at these boxers that beat the crap out 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.160 of themselves. Then they can't even put sentences together when 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:26.080 they're in their fifties and sixties. Like football players, it's 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:30.280 all backwards. What for for for the win? What does 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:34.120 that actually mean? So here I am in my thirties, 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.680 it's like, oh wow, my heart's my heart's really beating 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:44.320 fast today, but I'm not really doing anything. Huh. I 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:46.440 gotta tickets, I gotta take deep reast. There's something off, 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:48.000 all right, It's okay, I'm fine. And then you stuck 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.120 it up and you bury it down, and you don't 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.000 allow your body to feel what it is screaming at 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.800 you that it needs to feel, which is repressed emotion, 0:09:56.440 --> 0:10:02.880 which are repressed feelings, anger, madness, We're more shame, get 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.880 whatever it is. It's all we bury it down to 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:09.920 the point where like a like molten lava and eventually 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:11.880 is going to rise to the service and explode like 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.560 a volcano. But eventually, no matter what, we're gonna have 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.520 to deal with it. I'm now in my thirties being like, 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.840 oh shit, I gotta I gotta deal with it. Why well, 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.240 I have lives that depend on me. I have a partner, 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:28.240 I have this amazing wife who's doing the exact same 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:30.520 work that I am. And we're looking at each other 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:34.160 and we're saying, we cannot pass this on to our children. 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:37.400 We cannot have our children grow up in homes like 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.280 we grew up. And now, granted we grew up okay 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.360 my wife. My wife's family had alcoholism and her dad 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:45.920 passed away when she was eighteen. I grew up in 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.160 a in a wonderful house. The problem is that we 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.079 never talked about the broken pieces. We just swept them 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:55.520 under the rug. My dad was the master at that exactly. 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.240 You realize that like this all comes up when you 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:00.080 don't deal with it, and even though what even and 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:01.760 when we deal with it, it comes up even more. 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:03.040 And that's the thing that I think it's important for 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:06.800 people to know you start healing, like it all starts 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.600 to come up and you have to address it, and 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.520 that's and that's also scary. And then you address it 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:14.160 and you're like, Okay, well, what's at the core of 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.600 that panic attack, what's at the core of my shortness 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.280 of breath, what's at the core of my depression, what's 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:20.640 at the core of the thing that's keeping me out 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.160 of bed? And then you've got to go into it. Oh. Absolutely, 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:28.120 I'm dealing with it in real time. I'm struggling. It's awesome, 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:30.840 and I want to talk about it as much as 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:34.640 I can because these are the things that don't make 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:36.720 us just man enough, and they make us human enough, 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.120 all of us. That the things that allow all of 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:41.720 us to connect because we are all struggling, we all 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:45.560 have trauma, and trauma looks different for everybody. It really does. 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.280 And I think something that I've learned, I mean, everyone's 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:50.520 journey is so different. But I just went through my 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.080 first midterms at college. I justved across the country and 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.760 I was really overwhelmed balancing school, the social life and 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:01.440 the podcast. I was terns are hard. I was doing 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.680 that thing where I was pushing it down. I was 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.960 just getting through the days and then I just took 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.040 a day. I took There's one moment and I just 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.040 cracked and I just sucking let it out and it 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.920 was one of those cries where like I could physically 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:19.240 feel it leaving my body. Oh those are good, which 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.800 was so good. But like I've grown up doing UM, 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:26.840 cognitive behavioral therapy. Cognitive behavior therapy. Yeah, and I've been 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:30.280 doing exposure therapy, where it's essentially like if you're afraid 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.000 of a spider, you start in a room with a spider, 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.880 and you lead up to actually holding it. Um, which 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:37.800 is one of the most afraid of spiders. No, but 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.240 there's just just an example. I was. I had separation anxiety, 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:45.640 really bad separation anxiety with your parents. Yes it was 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.600 no older brother. Um. And then like growing up with 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.040 learning disabilities to like the thought of a girl with 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.240 processing issues probably wouldn't have a podcast. So everything that 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.360 I'm trying to do is to prove to myself that 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.480 I can do all of the things that I thought 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.760 I could never do. It's awesome, it's really and I'm 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:06.839 so happy you're doing it. The crazy thing is soon 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.640 you're going to recognize what, oh ship all my success 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:14.040 is actually a trauma response. Oh absolutely absolutely. The podcast 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.920 was created as a distraction because of my anxiety. All 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.400 of this is like, wait, so I'm this is all 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:23.880 a responsive from trauma. Doesn't mean it's bad or good, right, 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.439 It's taking a shitty situation and creating something good out 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.040 of it. You look at that and you're like wow. 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.520 So in some ways I have to have a lot 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.199 of gratitude for that. Oh absolutely, things I look back on, 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.880 Like I've talked about this, I hate my anxiety, but 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:40.920 I'm also very grateful for it because it makes me 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:45.040 who I am and I think something that's I'm currently 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:47.800 struggling with that. I'm sure you can give me advice 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.600 on is you have you're balancing a lot. You know, 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.640 you have your production company, you have your podcasts, you 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:58.120 have a family. How have you dealt with balancing all 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.400 of that? Terribly? I've dealt with it. I doubt This 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:05.160 is where understanding that your drive comes coming from trauma 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:09.360 is really important, because when it comes from a place 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:16.320 of pain and it's disguised as drive, then you never 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:20.520 have an end. So what I tell people, because I'm 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.680 on this same journey, is that there's like no matter 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:28.280 how much success I get, it's not going to change anything. 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:31.680 It's not going to heal me. Until you're content with yourself. 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:34.960 I have to I have to heal. And then the 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.640 success on top of that, it can be additory if 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.240 you will. It's like I can. I can be grateful 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:45.960 for it. But the second that my perceived success in 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.200 America and social media and whatever business that I'm in 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:54.440 becomes my identity is the second that I just fall 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.200 into like that bottomless pit of despair because it's not 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.400 real because eventually that's going to go away, and what 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:01.520 happens when that goes away, I'm just again, I'm prolonging 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:06.000 a panic attack of prolonging depression. You that's why you 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.600 see so many people just fighting to stay in front 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.560 of the limelight, like just doing everything they can for fame, 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.480 because they're so deadly afraid of losing it, because losing 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:17.760 it is death to them, because you don't have an 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:21.920 identity without it, and if that's your identity, exactly expect 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.640 and also because it's you're you're trying to heal your 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:28.680 trauma with these external things when in reality, you can 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:30.680 have all of this stuff. You can do your podcast, 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:32.120 you can do all you could. I could do mine, 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.480 You could write your book, so long as you know 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:38.360 that it doesn't define me, and if it goes away, 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.560 it's okay. Justin we have to take a quick break. 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:43.720 But when we come back, I want to continue talking 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.560 about what defines us and the stigma as to why 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.120 so many guys don't like to open up and be 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:59.000 vulnerable and much more. We'll be right back and we're back, 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.200 So then what does define you? Though? Is the question? 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.880 Because that's something that I'm going through, Like if, for example, 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.360 the podcast has been my identity, who am I a 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:10.960 girl with a podcast? If I used I just work 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.600 for Radio Disney, I was a Radio Disney girl who 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:15.440 like it goes to the question of they think we're 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:20.240 all struggling with, like who are you besides the materialistic things? 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:22.880 I always I always think about, well, what would happen 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:25.400 if a meteor hit Earth and suddenly we lost all 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.280 of our technology? Be nice in a way, wouldn't it be? 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:31.240 I think a lot of us would be like, oh 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.160 my god, I can breathe again. Can you imagine how 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.800 many people would just be able to like take a 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.280 full breath for the first time in their life. Wow, 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.400 if it all went away, You think about that, all 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:48.480 of us, we are all enough already, but the world 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.320 is telling us we're not so. So long as we're 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.040 looking to the world and others for cues, were never 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.440 going to feel like we're enough. My wife and I 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:00.280 talked about this a lot. What is enough? Content meant? 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:03.320 What is enough? I have my perfect idea of what 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:08.120 my career is. When will I be satisfied? When will 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:10.040 I be happy? In my book, I talk about the 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:12.159 y ladder. If you go into the y ladder, if 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.000 you ask yourself why more than once, If you ask 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:19.119 yourself that question, what will make me happy? You'll probably 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.720 recognize that you won't find the answer because the answer 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:27.280 doesn't exist out there, it exists here inside. So balance 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:32.280 really comes down to prioritization. It's not balance, it's prioritizing. 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.760 It's man, I'm feeling low today. You know what, I'm 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:37.159 not gonna do anything. I'm gonna take care of myself. 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:39.439 I'm not gonna I'm not gonna push myself into a podcast. 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:40.960 You know what, I'm going to cancel though I had, 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:43.879 You know what I had? Justin Biebern, as awesome as 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:47.000 he is, I gotta take care of myself. I would 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.520 never cancel and Justin Bieber, though I would choose him 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:55.040 over my mental health. That's between you and your mental health. 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.919 And if you give my point, it's like we just 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.040 if if all of us would would be able to 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:04.920 breathe deeply and have so much less anxiety of all 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.879 of the technology in the world went away, what is 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.600 that telling us? It's telling us that all of it 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.720 is bullshit. It does good, of course it does good. 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:19.280 You're helping people, Sammy, like I'm helping people, were all helping, 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.600 But we have to also ask ourselves like that does 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.359 that define us? Does us helping people define us? Or 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:29.280 are we trying to heal something in ourselves by helping others? 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:32.040 And there's a big difference too that I think is 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.520 needs a distinction. Something that I'm like I said, I'm 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:39.520 a freshman at college and something that I'm realizing, the 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:46.000 toxic masculinity alone within just guys in college is so 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.320 prevalent that I'm witnessing on a day to day that's 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:52.919 kind of shocking, um and you should do, honestly a 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:56.159 podcast episode on it. Because something that I'm realizing is 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:00.600 with the frat culture. Yeah, it's terrible. My like my 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.679 guy friends, like they're just starting to open up, but 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:08.200 it's oh, I can't do that. Something that I've realized 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.560 with that is just guys are afraid to show their 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:15.200 emotions even to their girlfriends. And I'm and my friends 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:17.199 are trying to be like no, Like crying is a 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.520 good thing. It shows strength. It's hot when guys are 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:26.520 freaking honest and open and not just focusing on getting 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.000 this because it's cool, And I feel like that should 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:34.240 be talked about more. The social pressures are so much 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:38.080 more than I think anybody realizes. Yeah, boys and men 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.120 just want to be liked and accepted by their boys 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:43.159 and men. We think that we're doing it for women. 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.920 We think we're doing it for girls, but in reality, 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:47.200 like if we were to listen to the women and 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.080 the girls in our lives, we wouldn't be doing half 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:53.239 the ship that we're doing. And in college, it's just 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:55.320 I want to fit in. You want to be a 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:56.680 part of a club. You want to be a part 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:58.320 of a team. You want to have your bros. You 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.639 want to be a part of that. And fat culture 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:06.560 is extremely toxic. It's terrible. Um, but honestly, so a 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:10.760 sorority culture. Absolutely, it's all toxic. It's taking social media 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:12.080 and you're just putting it in the real world and 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.480 you're saying like, am I enough? Judge me, Please tell 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.160 me If I'm enough, let me into your group. That 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:20.160 is toxic and it breaks my heart. I just read 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:24.080 an article like young women are developing ticks, like like 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:27.080 little ticks, and they're thinking that it's because of TikTok we. 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:29.840 This is the largest experiment in the history of the universe, 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.080 what we're doing to young people in their brains right now. 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:36.360 We've never had this much comparison or this much beauty 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:40.000 standards and ship shoved in our faces. And us men, 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:43.800 God like, it's already so hard for us to just 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:47.439 except who we are is enough. We don't have the 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.879 language of the vocabulary to go in to figure out 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.720 what we're feeling, because we've never been asked what we're 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:56.480 like feeling none, none of us have. The whole idea 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:59.280 of masculinity is that we have to have people under 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.040 us in order for us to feel powerful. That's the 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:04.919 that's the fraternity structure that is so true. And I 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:08.040 feel like it's one of those things where I'm so 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:11.879 glad that you are talking about this, and there are 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:13.480 so many other issues. I know in your book you 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:17.919 were so open about, like body image, because that's with guys. 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.720 I wish that was discussed more, because I feel like, 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:23.960 in turn, if we all discuss it and we would 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.520 all feel less alone. You know, No, it's not just girls, 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:29.080