Speaker 1: Of course Love Supreme. It's a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora
Speaker 1: Sweet On QLs. We're really excited to bring you a
Speaker 1: second part of our exclusive benefew with Kenneth's baby Face epodes.
Speaker 1: Let's start in the show. How do you determine? Because
Speaker 1: looking at your solo career from you know, tender Lover
Speaker 1: was eighty nine, was eighty nine and then uh, don't
Speaker 1: forget about lovers, your lovers, and but from that to
Speaker 1: then you know, for the cooling you like, which is
Speaker 1: my favorite, Like, how did you do video man? How
Speaker 1: did you determine? Okay, this is for me and this
Speaker 1: is for my artists or or other people I'm producing
Speaker 1: for how did you balance that workload? Um? Songs first
Speaker 1: and whatever I would write it. I get asked that
Speaker 1: question many sense. Why didn't you keep in the road?
Speaker 1: Why didn't you keep every little step? Because listen to
Speaker 1: who sung it and and listen to the songs so
Speaker 1: as became you know, so UM, I think the song
Speaker 1: is ultimately find their right homes. And UM, for me,
Speaker 1: there are certain songs that I could do and that
Speaker 1: I could do well in certain songs I wish I
Speaker 1: could have done better, but I couldn't, So I was
Speaker 1: honest with myself and gave him away for that reason.
Speaker 1: What's an example of a song that you gave away
Speaker 1: that you enter the road once? Once I finished and said,
Speaker 1: oh man, was it your vocal that just didn't work out?
Speaker 1: Or yeah, I just didn't Well, I specifically wrote it
Speaker 1: for boys the man, so I was going for that
Speaker 1: whole old Philly sound, you know. And uh. And then
Speaker 1: when I and then when they started singing it, I was,
Speaker 1: you know, because I really almost kept it. But when
Speaker 1: they those boys walked in there and started saying, I said,
Speaker 1: damn home, it was like, you know, it was clear
Speaker 1: that Wow, that moment was clear they they were a
Speaker 1: better group than I thought they were. And uh, and
Speaker 1: I knew that I would want to work with him again. Question.
Speaker 1: How many songs did you work on for the Dangerous
Speaker 1: Project for Michael Jackson. I'm here in no. Ten. We
Speaker 1: we got called to work with Michael right. We had
Speaker 1: just signed Jermaine Jackson on the face and then Michael
Speaker 1: heard a little song called word to the Bad and yeah,
Speaker 1: R and B distrack. You wrote that Jermaine with Jermaine
Speaker 1: Jermine like left ife was on it. Okay, so so
Speaker 1: we got called. We got totally forgotten this story. We
Speaker 1: when we signed him up. Then we got a call
Speaker 1: from the gloved One and wanted to meet us. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I had met I had met Michael, you know,
Speaker 1: younger days, but he didn't know that. But so, um
Speaker 1: we got the call that, you know, I'd like to
Speaker 1: meet with you guys. So he sent a helicopter and
Speaker 1: we we we went out to Neverland and uh, we
Speaker 1: were like, all right, we gotta go. We can't not go.
Speaker 1: I know, we just signed Jermaine, but we can't not go.
Speaker 1: This is Michael. And Jermaine was like, this is crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he knew we No, this is no. This is my brother.
Speaker 1: He's trying to he's purposely whatever. So and uh so
Speaker 1: we got to Neverland and uh sat in the living
Speaker 1: room waiting for a little bit from Michael. Come out.
Speaker 1: Then Michael finally came out. Please meet you guys. How
Speaker 1: are you doing? I said great? He says, um, So
Speaker 1: I wanted to bring you guys here because I really
Speaker 1: wanted to know, you know, if you wanted to do
Speaker 1: some work with me and stuff. So I said that's great. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously we've been banned for years. Um so Michael,
Speaker 1: so what we want to know is that what do
Speaker 1: you want from us? Right, because like, you know, what
Speaker 1: have you heard from us? What do you want to
Speaker 1: what kind of music are you looking for? And he goes, well,
Speaker 1: so I really love that thing that um what's that
Speaker 1: song that Janit does um rhythm rhythm, so like so ago,
Speaker 1: so you know that Jimmy Terry right. I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, I know, but I like it. And then
Speaker 1: we said so, I said, so what is it of
Speaker 1: ours that you like? And he goes, well, I particularly
Speaker 1: love that song? Uh a crime, it's no crime. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love the beat. I don't like the beat. I
Speaker 1: don't like the words. God. It's like, okay, all right,
Speaker 1: all right, but you know me, Mr Positive and you
Speaker 1: know you can. I was like, okay, all right. So
Speaker 1: that gives us a direction. At least, we no kind
Speaker 1: of where to go because it didn't matter. He could
Speaker 1: have said our stuff was crap and we would have said,
Speaker 1: well we'll make it well uncraffic and uh so we
Speaker 1: got the you know, he said, let's go go to
Speaker 1: the studio and work. Let's let's put some work together
Speaker 1: and and do some studio, put some studio time together.
Speaker 1: And so we went out and work. I forget what
Speaker 1: the studios we went out to work at. But prior
Speaker 1: to that, right after that meeting, we had a we
Speaker 1: went up to Lionel Richie's house. Perhaps have to be
Speaker 1: friends with Brenda. Ritchie was very good friends with Brendi
Speaker 1: Richie and we went over to the house and the
Speaker 1: Linel was there and Lionel said, and I'm gonna tell
Speaker 1: you something about Michael. He said, he's a nice guy.
Speaker 1: But don't get caught. Don't get caught in the web
Speaker 1: of you know, all the you know, the charm and
Speaker 1: the magic stuff, because you you will be working forever
Speaker 1: and never come out with nothing. So just be careful
Speaker 1: to not get caught up in that way, because you know,
Speaker 1: he's so magical that you be magic out and you
Speaker 1: won't even know. So we went in there kind of
Speaker 1: with a different attitude when we went to work with them,
Speaker 1: because I would see the guys that could be so
Speaker 1: hard and stuff like that, and you get in front
Speaker 1: of Michael Jackson, maybe suddenly they become little lambs. No
Speaker 1: matter how hard you are, you talking to Michael Jackson.
Speaker 1: It's it's a whole another story. Michael just he's magical.
Speaker 1: So um so we kind of like stay strong because
Speaker 1: of that. And so we went in and we started
Speaker 1: working on tracks. I think we probably went through three
Speaker 1: or four tracks, and he'd come in. He listened to
Speaker 1: him nice, love love it, love it. Okay, now you
Speaker 1: see that right there? Take this now and want you
Speaker 1: to it's beautiful. But now I want you to go
Speaker 1: to a place that you've never gone before. Reach inside
Speaker 1: and go to a place that you've never gone. We
Speaker 1: were like, oh yeah, now' right, we haven't gone far enough.
Speaker 1: So we went back and start going further and further.
Speaker 1: And then he'd come back and we we fixed up
Speaker 1: the track. We like, we know we're there now. We
Speaker 1: just playing the track. We hadn't even done the top
Speaker 1: lines yet, but we're going for the tracks and stuff like.
Speaker 1: So he'd come in and listen, and it's like probably
Speaker 1: about the fourth day he was supposed to come by.
Speaker 1: Each day he didn't. What't he didn't come back to
Speaker 1: the fourth day and then he came in and he
Speaker 1: listened to it. I love it. It's great. No, you
Speaker 1: can figure out his steps right, beautiful. No, I love this,
Speaker 1: I love now. No, this is perfect. But now what
Speaker 1: I want you to do is go even deeper, go
Speaker 1: to a place that you never go. He's right, What
Speaker 1: does that? What does that entail? Is that more patches
Speaker 1: in the song? Is it more percussion? You know? It's like,
Speaker 1: give me something different, give me something unique, give me
Speaker 1: something that you know we haven't heard before, pushing naws,
Speaker 1: even the rhythms, that could be anything. So he just
Speaker 1: he wasn't completely pulled in yet, and so we we
Speaker 1: ultimately did this song called Slave to the Rhythm, and
Speaker 1: that's the song that we ended up with it that
Speaker 1: we But then he was he was supposed to come
Speaker 1: by the studio, wouldn't come by. And then me and
Speaker 1: Eli sat down one day we said, you know what,
Speaker 1: we've been here a week, he came down. He came
Speaker 1: here twice. Out of seven days he came here twice.
Speaker 1: We out of here. So we left. We went back
Speaker 1: over to another studio for getting he was d We
Speaker 1: went to Michael, called l A and said what happened? When?
Speaker 1: Where where did you guys go? Eli said, nope, we
Speaker 1: got us stuff to do. We can't do it. This this,
Speaker 1: this is our song, this is it and uh and
Speaker 1: we were done and we pulled out of the project.
Speaker 1: So and you were flying with that. We were fine
Speaker 1: with it because what we didn't want to be is
Speaker 1: those producers that would get caught with one artists and
Speaker 1: only have one artists. Our career was built on a
Speaker 1: number of artists and had we stopped at one and
Speaker 1: just stopped there, then you just hang your flagship on
Speaker 1: one and and that's what your Yeah, so we wanted
Speaker 1: to always be able to and at that point we
Speaker 1: started the label and then you know, Jermaine was pretty
Speaker 1: pissed at that particular point. Really you think that's what
Speaker 1: was asked, how do you do all this? And then yeah,
Speaker 1: well that was I mean that was the thing. Look,
Speaker 1: we were we had la face and we were supposed
Speaker 1: to be working on our arts at that particular point.
Speaker 1: So when you get a call from Michael, we was like,
Speaker 1: we're not going to not you know, we gotta do Michael,
Speaker 1: and so we we we tried it. We went there,
Speaker 1: but we knew we couldn't stay there forever to keep
Speaker 1: doing it, and we felt like we were going to
Speaker 1: run into that. Um it was it was more of
Speaker 1: a thing of thinking Michael, well, maybe we don't, maybe
Speaker 1: we don't see the same things, and maybe we're not
Speaker 1: the guys for you, so we don't want to go
Speaker 1: with this whole process. Did you feel in your heart
Speaker 1: of hearts that you had a good song What's Lave? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I thought it was pretty good, but I think I
Speaker 1: didn't think we got a chance to work it too
Speaker 1: to make it the best. You know. Um, I think
Speaker 1: that with any artists that you start to work with,
Speaker 1: you're gonna go through some songs that aren't great. But
Speaker 1: if you get more time with them, then you will
Speaker 1: get to that greatness. But you gotta have that time.
Speaker 1: You gotta have the time to have the bad songs
Speaker 1: in order to have the great songs. So when you
Speaker 1: started let face, uh, I mean, I guess it's impossible
Speaker 1: for any black entrepreneur to not have thoughts of Motown
Speaker 1: in their heads. As an lake course, what's my label
Speaker 1: gonna be the new Motown? Um? What were your Well?
Speaker 1: I mean, by this point, at least like you Ellie's,
Speaker 1: you and l A are are about to separate and
Speaker 1: you're about to produce on your own, and he runs
Speaker 1: the label like, how did you guys come into an
Speaker 1: amicable Um. It was the label became the thing for that.
Speaker 1: He had to run run the label. Um we were
Speaker 1: Um it was a little little card for him to
Speaker 1: keep producing and be a writer and all that and
Speaker 1: and actually run the label business. Couldn't really do that.
Speaker 1: You have to you have to make a choice. You're
Speaker 1: neither gonna be a businessman or you gonna be an artist. Um.
Speaker 1: And the truth is is l A was always kind
Speaker 1: of the businessman. He was always that was his role,
Speaker 1: you know, going way back to the deal. He was
Speaker 1: like the guy that made sure everybody everybody got to eat,
Speaker 1: going back to his days, you know, like too you
Speaker 1: know essence and the deal, living in Indianapolis and making
Speaker 1: sure he made some deals with some people at Church's
Speaker 1: chicken to make sure they could eat every night. So
Speaker 1: it was that was his gig. And uh and he
Speaker 1: basically became, you know, the manager of you know, Leface Records. Um,
Speaker 1: it was he had to be. He had to make
Speaker 1: sure everybody got chicken. But how does that work from
Speaker 1: an artists Like when y'all decided which artists would be
Speaker 1: that did it? Ever? Did at least say okay, so
Speaker 1: this is this group good? In mob? I just want
Speaker 1: you to hear. So you know, we were always on
Speaker 1: the same page in terms of we never fought in
Speaker 1: terms of artists and uh whether something was good or not.
Speaker 1: That's where we were always good together, is that, you know,
Speaker 1: our taste are very simular, so we kind of would
Speaker 1: support eachaln what was your relationship like with without casts?
Speaker 1: Because I wasn't around as much without casts, and so
Speaker 1: I would kind of see the guys because at that
Speaker 1: point I was kind of like doing a lot of
Speaker 1: producing out this way and kind of making the l
Speaker 1: A connection, so to say. And so you were working
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles while he stayed in Atlanta. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: was it about Atlanta that attracted or made that the official?
Speaker 1: We we were living here in l A. And we
Speaker 1: felt like we needed to get out of here in
Speaker 1: order to like, you know, be a big fish in
Speaker 1: a little see. We tried to start a label here.
Speaker 1: Then we would they never know we were here, and
Speaker 1: uh Stlanta as Minneapolis or yeah, okay, And so in
Speaker 1: going down there, we you know, we we were right
Speaker 1: to go there, and uh we got we got very lucky.
Speaker 1: You know that the talent came to find us there's
Speaker 1: some talent that we lost doubt on. You know, um
Speaker 1: who almost didn't get signed to the label or who didn't?
Speaker 1: Who did you miss out on? We had an A
Speaker 1: and R person that um had got something that we did.
Speaker 1: We found out after the fact. I got to make
Speaker 1: sure that's true, that the story in fact is true,
Speaker 1: because it's sad if it is um but R Kelly
Speaker 1: what and they this is bull stuff? So this bull
Speaker 1: craps are on So we never got it. We never
Speaker 1: got to even hear it. But he did. He did?
Speaker 1: You guys do the music together to he you wouldn't
Speaker 1: have told you y'all missed out on me. You know
Speaker 1: that right in the midday, in the middle of Canbrie.
Speaker 1: That's crazy. So okay, one one of your clients that
Speaker 1: were particularly curious about, uh who who's done our show before?
Speaker 1: H Usher? Raymond Oh Yeah, says one of his career
Speaker 1: regrets was the fact that he did not get a
Speaker 1: freshly pinned baby faced classic when he first signed to
Speaker 1: the label. When when and went so far as to
Speaker 1: tell us that can We Talk was initially his song.
Speaker 1: To this day, he believes that he believes that um
Speaker 1: U Usher came when Usher came. He came out of
Speaker 1: time when me and l A were going through this
Speaker 1: like Cam and jay Z and Usher came in and
Speaker 1: Usher came, He's this bad little kid came and sang
Speaker 1: into the road and it's demo and he was bad
Speaker 1: its little kids bad um. Bad isn't good or bad
Speaker 1: like badass? And uh, I certainly, you know, I thought
Speaker 1: he was an amazing kid. He came out of time
Speaker 1: with me in l A were like kind of like
Speaker 1: had our issues and uh so I kind of like
Speaker 1: ended up being out here in l A a a lot um.
Speaker 1: I got a call from Quincy Jones two write a
Speaker 1: song for Devin Campbell and it's Quincy Jones. I was like,
Speaker 1: it's Quincy Jones. So I wrote can we Talk Um?
Speaker 1: And did a demo of it. And Eli had heard
Speaker 1: the record of thinking Um and he wanted it for
Speaker 1: us your but I had already given it two uh
Speaker 1: to Tevin. And it was a question, will you know
Speaker 1: us just us you can sing better and and you
Speaker 1: know the thing is good, And I said, well, but
Speaker 1: I can already did this deal with with Quincy, and
Speaker 1: I ain't gonna like tell Quincy no at this particular point,
Speaker 1: so the song ultimately went to and so the song
Speaker 1: was never really four Usher. But but from the way
Speaker 1: that probably l A talking, because I'm sure l A
Speaker 1: said it differently, that's supposed to be your song went
Speaker 1: that way. That's I'm sure that's kind of how it went.
Speaker 1: And so Usher is not wrong in terms of how
Speaker 1: he how it came to him. He just don't know
Speaker 1: the real story behind it. Do you. Okay, you don't know.
Speaker 1: But between nine four and ninety nine, did you personally
Speaker 1: get tired of hearing you on the radio? No, because
Speaker 1: I wouldn't listen how I would if if something came
Speaker 1: on that I did, then I turned the RADI off,
Speaker 1: I listen then you obviously Yeah, So like because during
Speaker 1: that time, because it's like, wait, next hill is ninety five?
Speaker 1: And then producing you produced everything on the way into Excel.
Speaker 1: How hard was that too? It was it a good
Speaker 1: idea at the time versus getting to the end point
Speaker 1: it was? It was it was a huge undertaking, only
Speaker 1: because it wasn't about it when I did the project. Uh,
Speaker 1: Forest Whittaker came to me and asked me to do
Speaker 1: it when he um and then not only did he
Speaker 1: ask me just to do that. But he also asked
Speaker 1: me to score the film m and I said, well,
Speaker 1: I've never done that, and he said that's it. And
Speaker 1: I told him I can't do that because I don't
Speaker 1: that's not what I do. And he said, you can
Speaker 1: do it, and I'll get you some help to make
Speaker 1: sure you can do it. But initially, I want you
Speaker 1: to come and I want you to write the songs
Speaker 1: for this film, and I want you to watch the
Speaker 1: movie as I'm doing it and and write the song.
Speaker 1: So I ultimately kind of took all my gear over
Speaker 1: to a studio with him as he was editing the film,
Speaker 1: and and I also watched him film of it film
Speaker 1: it as well, and then he gave me a kind
Speaker 1: of sense of where he wanted to go, and as
Speaker 1: he sent me scenes, I'd write songs to it. And
Speaker 1: and the truth is, I think every time I wrote
Speaker 1: a song, he liked it. And uh, and so I
Speaker 1: didn't really go through a bunch of different songs and
Speaker 1: that was just kind of like hitting hitting the scenes,
Speaker 1: and and then we had to figure out who was
Speaker 1: going to sing it. And Uh, initially when we were
Speaker 1: doing the um doing the music, it wasn't even we
Speaker 1: wanted for sure that Whitney was going to sing anything
Speaker 1: at all. Um, she wasn't necessary. She she might sing something,
Speaker 1: she might not. We didn't know. And then because it
Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't gonna be a Whitney project. They just
Speaker 1: wanted me to do the do the music for it.
Speaker 1: So then Whitney decided that she was going to sing something.
Speaker 1: And then then Whitney decided that if I'm to be
Speaker 1: a part of it, then I get to have sakes.
Speaker 1: So who gets to sing? Who? Who don't get to sing? So?
Speaker 1: So what someone kicked off the album that we don't
Speaker 1: know about? There were some people that she didn't they
Speaker 1: want to sing? Um there we ask who? I just
Speaker 1: WV made it now? She liked that and uh so,
Speaker 1: so the list came up of of the of the girls.
Speaker 1: I wrote out a list and and then she I
Speaker 1: just wrote out the Listen. She just kind of said nope, nope, nope, yep, yep,
Speaker 1: And uh because I know she loves everybody, well everybody
Speaker 1: was everybody was who in black music? Was? Was it
Speaker 1: a black artist that got rejected? One of them? Oh?
Speaker 1: Some pop artists got rejected? M hmm. Nor Madonna. I'm
Speaker 1: sure it couldn't be the bus. Did you go for
Speaker 1: a big non black names on the black movie about
Speaker 1: the black This is fun for us to guess this.
Speaker 1: You don't have to name anything. You don't name anything. Uh,
Speaker 1: there was another huge artist that Jackson. You're not confirming,
Speaker 1: you're not confirming or denying den that's no way. Okay,
Speaker 1: she wasn't there, she wasn't on there. Okay, that's all right.
Speaker 1: But I feel like a mount like I feel like
Speaker 1: the that's two major people. I feel like I'm Mount Fiji.
Speaker 1: That could have that could have been on my Hello.
Speaker 1: I'm not confirming or denying that makes sense. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: makes lessense. Mariah was not on that soundtrack, but would
Speaker 1: Tommy led her on a client project problem? Probably not? Okay,
Speaker 1: So obviously Mariah was one. Although I'm certain in my
Speaker 1: in my I to believe that before the Prince of
Speaker 1: Egypt project that maybe perhaps there was an idea thrown
Speaker 1: around that Mariah and Whitney do something together on their
Speaker 1: Waiting to Excel soundtrack. Yeah, I'm gonna give myself right,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give myself up. I told you we were
Speaker 1: spen spent too many times reading album credits. We would
Speaker 1: have this conversation if you weren't here. That wasn't a
Speaker 1: big conversation, big piece, But there were other people that
Speaker 1: were kind of mentioning um. But so the people that
Speaker 1: she did pick were the people that she actually she
Speaker 1: liked their voices um and more. And and we were
Speaker 1: we were just kind of in searching me saying no, total,
Speaker 1: y'all never gonna let me live that down. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I love you, total. What about
Speaker 1: us as a damn look soul food soundtracks that time?
Speaker 1: How long how long did it take working on that?
Speaker 1: Because that's I mean, that's a lot of songs, you know, Um,
Speaker 1: I can't even remember. It was a couple of months probably,
Speaker 1: you know how long did it take to do Arethas? So?
Speaker 1: I love that. That's one of my favorites. Really. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I figured she would be the hardest client. She came
Speaker 1: in and sank that in three takes, damn. So the
Speaker 1: Mavericks just knock it out. Let me find like Faith
Speaker 1: Evans took twelve weeks to she I just meant like
Speaker 1: just Aretha basically, we'll come in you got three times
Speaker 1: and then out of here. You know, it's like so
Speaker 1: all the Mavericks are just like yo back man w
Speaker 1: went no pro tools and and that was saying I
Speaker 1: actually went to England and recorded her there in England. UM.
Speaker 1: So that was fun um And that was it was um.
Speaker 1: As you're putting the project together, you feel like it's special,
Speaker 1: but you don't you don't completely know. Um. And when
Speaker 1: it was all when it was all put together, it
Speaker 1: was the first time I handed something in the clive
Speaker 1: and he had no comments. Was that a good or
Speaker 1: bad fan? It's amazing thing has like really sure you
Speaker 1: don't want me try to do something? And so there
Speaker 1: was there was questions about you know, from a lot
Speaker 1: of different people. There was questions. I remember I had
Speaker 1: a say this, had a big debate with Andre Herrell
Speaker 1: about you know Mary song, UM not gonna cry because
Speaker 1: he he felt like that was Mary was too young
Speaker 1: to sing that song? Well, because you know it, did
Speaker 1: you hear them? That was the beginning of I guess
Speaker 1: some of the years of my life. I gave all
Speaker 1: years and it's kind of a married divorce. It was
Speaker 1: like that's but she was the vessel for that, like
Speaker 1: that's she still kills that I was gonna say, like,
Speaker 1: I think that really took her from your next door
Speaker 1: to sister girl. Mary made her grow up and maybe
Speaker 1: they weren't ready. It was her first Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: wow wow, but it was it was about I mean
Speaker 1: I explained to him, I said, you know, the look,
Speaker 1: the thing about Mary is that she has all this
Speaker 1: pain and and has the voice to tell the story.
Speaker 1: And so she is as you say, she was a
Speaker 1: vessel for uh, for Angela where Angela's rolling that in
Speaker 1: the movie. And and because of that, it sold and
Speaker 1: it worked. Um, and so there's something about all the
Speaker 1: women that were involved with that movie at this particularly
Speaker 1: more as more time goes by, how special it seems.
Speaker 1: You know that, Um, the work that they did, that
Speaker 1: everybody did as part of that movie musically as well
Speaker 1: as the actual you know filming it so ful soundtrack.
Speaker 1: How close did you guys ever get to a milestone
Speaker 1: project or was it just that one song recording? Uh?
Speaker 1: I want to know what that. I want to know
Speaker 1: that session was, like, it was a great It was
Speaker 1: a great session. That was um so much fun. I mean,
Speaker 1: I wanted the great thing about doing soundtracks is you
Speaker 1: got to work with artists that you hadn't hadn't had
Speaker 1: a chance to work with yet, so and to create
Speaker 1: a reason to work together in the whole milestone thing
Speaker 1: that was It was perfect. Um. I purposely just kind
Speaker 1: of you know, took a back step and was letting
Speaker 1: it be the guys, you know, between Kevin and Melbourne
Speaker 1: and Casey and Jojo and just to hear their voices.
Speaker 1: And they always talked about a mile stone thing, but
Speaker 1: it never really I think it was a record company
Speaker 1: issues or whatever like that, And it's always something that
Speaker 1: I've always played around with, you know, thinking about trying
Speaker 1: to do it at one point, but just we just
Speaker 1: never got there. What was the advantage of producing that
Speaker 1: movie and that soundtrack though, because that was like your
Speaker 1: first that was Was that the first time you did entertainment? Um?
Speaker 1: It was first? Sorry I was I was just saying
Speaker 1: that what I was thinking it was the first time,
Speaker 1: but I couldn't remember I had plenty was okay producing
Speaker 1: the movie? Yeah, the movie that was great, Like freaking
Speaker 1: half plenty. I've watched Love forty. That's my life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like I thought that with somebody I loved that, Well,
Speaker 1: yeah that's his life too. Trying to explain, d' angelo,
Speaker 1: this is movie about your life that you don't know about.
Speaker 1: He still, yeah, I heard about this. So how did
Speaker 1: that project wind up in your lap? Um? The Uh,
Speaker 1: it was kind of we ran into the I'm losing
Speaker 1: his name right now, Chris Um, Chris Scott or Chris
Speaker 1: yer Row. Do you know I have the DVD Little
Speaker 1: Chris Fisher. We round from Sundance and we were able
Speaker 1: to kind of take that film, take that film when
Speaker 1: we took it to Sundance and was able to get
Speaker 1: it made through you know, and that way. But we
Speaker 1: had we had saw the film and loved it, thought
Speaker 1: he was great. That whole Love forty thing was amazing.
Speaker 1: By the way, Steve, do you know the story of
Speaker 1: honest Steve engineered Uh, de' angelo's voodoo, so not the
Speaker 1: lead engineer. So you were there like we were there.
Speaker 1: We were there in prison for six years like Michael
Speaker 1: Jacks And yeah, so Love Love forty was supposed to
Speaker 1: be like Brown Sugar, like a song about forty of love,
Speaker 1: like like literally this guy. I guess the narrative is
Speaker 1: that the lead protagonist was in love with um that
Speaker 1: she used to work at. Her name was Heavilyn Savage. Right, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: but you really know that movie I got if you
Speaker 1: were well she used to date, right no, no, no,
Speaker 1: but I'm saying that, uh, the and R that work,
Speaker 1: that the publishing spot that D was playing at when
Speaker 1: he got signed, he and her started dating. So the
Speaker 1: movie is really based on a real life story of
Speaker 1: this kind of triangle between this R and B singer
Speaker 1: uh in the object of her affections and the guy
Speaker 1: that like he just basically made a movie about it.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it's quite up. It's really it's it's
Speaker 1: it's a classic. All right. So you said you never
Speaker 1: got tired of yourself? Uh on the radio, but I
Speaker 1: mean towards I mean after Like, what do you say
Speaker 1: when Eric Clapton comes a calling, like is it? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, like you you say, God himself is how
Speaker 1: does he know who I am? That's what you say?
Speaker 1: Whose idea was that? Kathy Nelson from m C A,
Speaker 1: m c A, Yeah, how do you know that Kathy?
Speaker 1: I remember I know her name because she was on
Speaker 1: the cbfore soundtrack whatever anyway rights dot com, Oh my god, jesus.
Speaker 1: All right, so she came up with the idea thing Nelson. Yes,
Speaker 1: she called and said that you know, she had this idea,
Speaker 1: had to had this song. Uh with no no, Um
Speaker 1: judge had had done the song and UH sent me
Speaker 1: the song to let me here and then she said,
Speaker 1: now I have this idea for you to do it
Speaker 1: with their Clapton. Um. I sent it to Eric Clapton
Speaker 1: and actually Eric Clapton said he would do it, but
Speaker 1: he would only do it if you produced it. And Uh,
Speaker 1: I was like, well, how's even know who I am?
Speaker 1: And then UM we got on the phone and he
Speaker 1: told me that he was a fan of He loved
Speaker 1: the song when can I see you again? Um, and
Speaker 1: said that you know, he was very inspired by that
Speaker 1: and he thought I could do a good job with
Speaker 1: the moment. So when the England recorded it with him,
Speaker 1: that was a crying song that I just remember when
Speaker 1: I came out and the video came out of it.
Speaker 1: You just started, if I could change the world, change
Speaker 1: the world, changed, change the world? And how come how long?
Speaker 1: Oh lord that video? Where'd you record that song? And uh?
Speaker 1: Which one the Clapton song? And uh in England I
Speaker 1: forget the name of the studio that was recorded part
Speaker 1: of it there and then part of it here and
Speaker 1: record play. Was that after trying? Was that after take
Speaker 1: a ballot? I don't know, Yeah, before okay, thank you?
Speaker 1: Then was it was it easy recording her? Or yeah? Um?
Speaker 1: Me and Macdonna got along very well, see the same
Speaker 1: thing she liked for Kenna see you and and so
Speaker 1: she went to work together because of that and um,
Speaker 1: and she came to my house at the time. I
Speaker 1: just lived on Sidey Seed and we we wrote the
Speaker 1: song there at the house. And actually I had a
Speaker 1: little studio in the house where we recorded part of
Speaker 1: it there. One question I always had a project, always
Speaker 1: had a question about was Tony Rich I was read
Speaker 1: because I thought it was you the first time I
Speaker 1: heard it. Yeah, So how did that come about? When
Speaker 1: me and l A, uh we're mad at each other? Okay,
Speaker 1: what happened? I can't tell that never mind, But how
Speaker 1: many artists were reflection of it? Me and l A
Speaker 1: kind of had fell out and um and so Paves
Speaker 1: went to find another me. So she found Tony Rich.
Speaker 1: You did not write nobody news, Nope, he didn't. No,
Speaker 1: he didn't that That's why I thought it was I
Speaker 1: had that album I need Laser Shots. You did not
Speaker 1: write that. You had nothing to do with that, nothing
Speaker 1: to do with it other than him being on my label. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like he has the plaque for his Greatest Fighter on
Speaker 1: his It's like like that's a good fight, Like I'm
Speaker 1: gonna fight with you. Was you gonna get paid? Don't
Speaker 1: worry about it? I thought you. So many people thought that,
Speaker 1: but no, or at least think back up on it. Nah,
Speaker 1: well not now. When I first heard John B, I
Speaker 1: thought that was because when they was like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the new John B featuring baby Face, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: when did John B? Saying? I didn't know? I didn't
Speaker 1: know he was on that record? When I said, I
Speaker 1: was afraid to ask. I mean, the thing was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, how do you feel about working with
Speaker 1: someone that sounds so closely to you? Like, how did
Speaker 1: you it's the Wolf in Scott I didn't know you had?
Speaker 1: That was all Tony rich Baby okay, and nobody knew
Speaker 1: what except those two? You know, I had that album.
Speaker 1: I think I ordered like from Columbia houses some ship
Speaker 1: but dollar that's yeah, uh yeah. I literally just walked on.
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you, um with yeah, yum um,
Speaker 1: what were some of the arts. One of the artists
Speaker 1: that you guys had signed Lornia. You learn that he
Speaker 1: was a great artist and she had it she I mean,
Speaker 1: she had amazing voice. Um, that wasn't that but that
Speaker 1: was Tracy's label. That wasn't really my label. That was
Speaker 1: you know, so that was kind of like that thing
Speaker 1: and I supported it, you know. Um, but Lorne was
Speaker 1: one of those really great artists that you know, I'm
Speaker 1: sorry it didn't work out for her, like like thinking
Speaker 1: shouldn't because she's amazing voice and and also amazing um
Speaker 1: spirit about her as well, beautiful person. The evolution of
Speaker 1: Tracy Edmands is quite amazing, Like she has become a
Speaker 1: role model for a lot of women, especially executives that
Speaker 1: how do you how does that make you feel? Like
Speaker 1: some of the things that you guys built. And I'm
Speaker 1: proud that she was able to, you know, come from
Speaker 1: where she came from beause you know, people just they
Speaker 1: you know, she was in a video so they called
Speaker 1: a video girl, and and so I spent a good
Speaker 1: deal of time trying to take that off of her
Speaker 1: and give her the opportunity to prove that, you know
Speaker 1: that she was she's a business person business. I mean
Speaker 1: that so fool was just so it was so it
Speaker 1: was it was a lot more about that. You know, Um,
Speaker 1: women in business, UM, many times they will not get
Speaker 1: the same shot because they because they think that they
Speaker 1: don't know what they're doing or are are It's uh,
Speaker 1: it's just this, you know, it's a chauvinistic man's game.
Speaker 1: And so I think when you can, when you have,
Speaker 1: when you're in a position to help help someone, then
Speaker 1: that's what you should do. You know, a buddy of mine,
Speaker 1: new artists that you're working with, she said, you guys
Speaker 1: are working to other cat ground. Uh. She wanted me
Speaker 1: to ask you, which I thought was a great question,
Speaker 1: what do you do when you have writer's block? But
Speaker 1: is that even the thing? Do you have? Right? Does
Speaker 1: that even exist? Yeah, you just don't write, just let
Speaker 1: it go because it just stop. You just don't write.
Speaker 1: And then I thought it was a baby face punt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, let it go, let it flow. Random, random
Speaker 1: baby face question. I just wanted to ask. In the
Speaker 1: last two years solid, can you tell me how Solid
Speaker 1: came about? And how did Todd dollarside? How did that happen? Um?
Speaker 1: SI called here and wanted to work with me and
Speaker 1: you and that's that's a great because I love his
Speaker 1: voice and um incredible voice. And then uh, as I
Speaker 1: met him, we just did some more work together just
Speaker 1: recently too. So um but when we when we started
Speaker 1: to work together, and then I saw how much of
Speaker 1: a musician he was. That was That's what I was
Speaker 1: impressed about. And does he play yeah, okay yeah, and
Speaker 1: uh good musician and so he's very untapped in terms
Speaker 1: of what what his real talent is I think, and
Speaker 1: I think that will keep showing. It's more time goes by,
Speaker 1: but it was it was fun to do that. Then
Speaker 1: we just we just recently did some more work again.
Speaker 1: And uh, I like, I like doing work everywhere, so
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, whether it's hip hop or whether
Speaker 1: it's your country or are any any genre because to
Speaker 1: be able to why I feel so blessed because I
Speaker 1: can work with the ty Dalla side, you know ago
Speaker 1: our little way, and then I can also then I'm
Speaker 1: working with Johnny Mathis, I do with Barber Strikes. So
Speaker 1: I have a question, what was it like, Um, how
Speaker 1: did the Fallout Boy project work coming out? Because because
Speaker 1: that's that's it seems like really random just know that's
Speaker 1: It's the other thing where I get calls from you know,
Speaker 1: these artists that you know Patrick from Fallback call and
Speaker 1: uh and wanted to wanted to do some work and
Speaker 1: want to figure out how to how how we could
Speaker 1: work together and so um I was able to, you know,
Speaker 1: do a couple of things with them. And they called
Speaker 1: me because of the Josie and the Pussycats and the
Speaker 1: music I did for the Josie and the Pussycats. I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, Uh, I once tried to do this, uh,
Speaker 1: like real serious symposium, like in New York, and I
Speaker 1: had their ears and then I had to give a reference,
Speaker 1: and I gave a Josie and the Pussycat reference and
Speaker 1: the collective left there about here they were like get out.
Speaker 1: But the thing was, y'all were really trying to drop
Speaker 1: some science in that movie. I mean it was beyond
Speaker 1: I watched it on it was like it was on
Speaker 1: the airplane, when you're on the airplane. Um, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't the standard popcorn fair. You guys are literally trying
Speaker 1: to expose all the magician's tricks to how the industry works.
Speaker 1: And I almost felt like when I watched it, I
Speaker 1: was like, wait, are y'all allowed to do this? Like
Speaker 1: how are they not trying to get rid of you guys?
Speaker 1: Like what was I mean, what was the it was
Speaker 1: because because it was colored in in this comical mhm.
Speaker 1: Have you guys seen it? I haven't seen it. It's
Speaker 1: a it's like they're literally exposing the industry. It's like
Speaker 1: behind what what's the behind the behind the music? That
Speaker 1: behind the music documentary I did where they where they
Speaker 1: expose how records get on clear channel and all that
Speaker 1: stuff behind the song? I forget what it's but this
Speaker 1: is like the movie version of that. It's a good
Speaker 1: it's a it's a great movie actually, and um, and
Speaker 1: the music was funny and so though it's it's one
Speaker 1: of those projects I'm proud to have been a part of. Sure,
Speaker 1: so I guess there was not necessarily silence. But before
Speaker 1: you did your solo project in two Thou with the Face,
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, with the Neptunes, Like at that point did
Speaker 1: you just feel like, Okay, well I don't totally have
Speaker 1: to have like fifteen number ones every year like I can, Like,
Speaker 1: what made you want to let someone else produce you?
Speaker 1: That was rough? Um, because the tunes well that was cool, okay, um,
Speaker 1: because I wanted to learn and I work with uh
Speaker 1: younger writers and younger producers that i'd like to see
Speaker 1: what they do. Um. There's never a point where you
Speaker 1: can't learn more and and to watch for real work
Speaker 1: and and you know, because he was doing everything on
Speaker 1: this ensnic and it was like, wait a minute, this
Speaker 1: is all you use? That was amazing. Um. And to
Speaker 1: see him at that particular point, I I told him
Speaker 1: at that point, I said, I know that one day
Speaker 1: he's gonna blow up because of the passion that he
Speaker 1: has with everything. And I kind of already kind of
Speaker 1: liked everything that he did. But at that point, what
Speaker 1: was different for that project for me was that I
Speaker 1: really kind of let go and let everybody kind of
Speaker 1: produce me so heavy d he was part of that, uh,
Speaker 1: and he brought in a couple of songs and uh,
Speaker 1: and I was working with Andre Horael and so they
Speaker 1: were so I really kind of was just letting them
Speaker 1: guie at me. Um. Okay, So I have the story
Speaker 1: do you know the story about to tell oh Jesus Christ?
Speaker 1: All right, so uh, earlier that day, the roots are
Speaker 1: at the House of Blues. Um, this is like this
Speaker 1: might have been ninety nine, I guess um. And I
Speaker 1: got a weird phone call that I didn't trust, and
Speaker 1: my managers like, yo, um, you're gonna go to Baby
Speaker 1: Faces Studio after the show tonight, um. And I was
Speaker 1: like for what He's like, I don't know to to
Speaker 1: work on stuff? I said, does he want me to
Speaker 1: drum on stuff? Like see make sure my back lines there.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking I'm going there to drum on it. They're
Speaker 1: like to see about production and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: who's punking me? Like why in the world with the
Speaker 1: world's most successful songs, I want to weep with me
Speaker 1: like one and a half hits like that? That doesn't
Speaker 1: sound right. So I instantly thought it was set up.
Speaker 1: I thought it was set up between between nineties six
Speaker 1: and two thousand and two. The kind of the kind
Speaker 1: of no no, the kind of what they do now
Speaker 1: was following me, and I always felt that some even
Speaker 1: with Biggie going like, I always felt like there was
Speaker 1: gonna be some like bad boy retaliation about to happen. Um.
Speaker 1: And it really got confirmed because when we're on stage
Speaker 1: during the last like by this point, like Scratch Roz,
Speaker 1: we're doing there so parts of the show, and you
Speaker 1: know the show is about the end. I looked to
Speaker 1: the stage left and I saw these three big dudes,
Speaker 1: like three big monsters l a dudes at the side,
Speaker 1: and Tina's like, these guys are gonna drive you to
Speaker 1: baby Face. I'm a I'm a die. So you know,
Speaker 1: we get all stage and they're like, yeah, what's up, man,
Speaker 1: how are you doing? We're going to drive you on
Speaker 1: the face the studio. And I knew by that point
Speaker 1: I was gonna die because I was like, this is
Speaker 1: how bad Boy gets me back for what they do video.
Speaker 1: And we walked out of the dressing room. We're in
Speaker 1: the hallway, and I distinctly remember running back to the
Speaker 1: dressing room and I grabbed a bag of Laies Mesquite
Speaker 1: barbecue chips because I was like, okay, well, at least
Speaker 1: wanted this is gonna be my last meal before I die.
Speaker 1: And we get in the car and it's just like
Speaker 1: the Mafia films, like I sat in the middle. I
Speaker 1: sat in the middle, flanked between these two guys. They
Speaker 1: drive me to the studio. We go down in this
Speaker 1: sort of tunnel thing, and when we're walking in the hallway,
Speaker 1: was like the Green Mild death row scene. It was dark,
Speaker 1: no lights on, and I just like, oh fuck, I'm
Speaker 1: about to get baseball bad at the death, like this
Speaker 1: is album my die and opened the door and it's
Speaker 1: Heavy D. And I was like Heavy D. He's like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: come on man. And then I knew it was a
Speaker 1: set up because I was like, I didn't know Heavy
Speaker 1: D as a producer then, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I was like, what are you doing here? Yeah? Man,
Speaker 1: you know producing baby Face And I was like, no, oh,
Speaker 1: I mean you did not produced. Yeah, I get down
Speaker 1: working on Jill Scott too, and then like he plays
Speaker 1: me all these songs and you know, by that point,
Speaker 1: I was like and then he got to you like
Speaker 1: one you were like in another studio somewhere. You got
Speaker 1: on the phone like on another line. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: thought that I was going to die at night, and
Speaker 1: I thought, what what did you end up doing? Was joint?
Speaker 1: I ended up breathing the side of relief and took
Speaker 1: about five pounds off of me going back to the bathroom. No, no,
Speaker 1: I listen. By that point, you know, we were like
Speaker 1: torn like crazy, so I just didn't have time to
Speaker 1: to commit to that, But yeah, I knew that I
Speaker 1: was being pranked because there was no way in hell
Speaker 1: that I was supposed to be working on a baby face. Right.
Speaker 1: It sound like you the one person he hasn't worked
Speaker 1: with yet. Yeah, I was about to say, you're both
Speaker 1: here right now, we are in a studio. The duet
Speaker 1: that you did with Raphael Sad, did you talk about
Speaker 1: letting other cats produce you? Was that instance that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: It was on the It was on Um. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean me and Raphaell we we kind of like the
Speaker 1: same dude sometimes, and so like working with him was
Speaker 1: it's kind of like working with myself. Uh he is
Speaker 1: that a good thing or bad? Fans? That's a good thing.
Speaker 1: I don't with him, I don't worry. But if I'm
Speaker 1: behind the microphone, that the hardest part for me is
Speaker 1: being behind the microphone and and singing and then letting
Speaker 1: somebody tell me if that was good or that wasn't good.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, that wasn't good and I could do it,
Speaker 1: do it again or whatever, And so I and I did.
Speaker 1: I did the same thing. Actually I did. There was
Speaker 1: I'd work with Jimmy and Terry that way. We did
Speaker 1: some work together and standing behind that Mike and and
Speaker 1: and being just the artist. I did it with Jimmy
Speaker 1: and Terry. I did it once with David Foster and
Speaker 1: and uh, and that's a hard place for me to be.
Speaker 1: It's just, um, I feel like I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: I have more than to I know kind of what
Speaker 1: to do myself. What was it like working with Terry
Speaker 1: and Jimmy Like, was that it was super surreal for you?
Speaker 1: Or we had we had fun. We we did some
Speaker 1: records that are still nice records, I think, but they
Speaker 1: weren't exactly um, they weren't right for the record we
Speaker 1: were doing at the time that it ultimately didn't come out.
Speaker 1: And they've talked about releasing a lot of songs they
Speaker 1: I said, whenever they want to put it on the
Speaker 1: record that they do of all the arts they work
Speaker 1: with them, fine with that. But dead Stock record where yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Um. But the actual it was
Speaker 1: the first time actually kind of being in and actually
Speaker 1: working with them and we I guess everybody is different
Speaker 1: in terms of how they do things and how they
Speaker 1: approach records and um. So it's always fun to watch
Speaker 1: that and see see different musicians that they're bringing and stuffing.
Speaker 1: Um and UM, you you this, if you keep your
Speaker 1: eyes open, you can always learn something you know of
Speaker 1: a feel and learn how to play something a little
Speaker 1: bit different. So one question I had about Tony, and
Speaker 1: this may have been more of an l a thing
Speaker 1: now that you've kind of broken it down, when she
Speaker 1: sued the Face, how did you guys get from her
Speaker 1: suing the Face to now y'all you know doing the
Speaker 1: Love managing the Voice album. Um. I've always been an
Speaker 1: artist friendly person, so I understood where she was coming
Speaker 1: from when she sued she was selling because there was
Speaker 1: nothing we could do about it. We were we had
Speaker 1: a joint venture, and so we didn't really make the
Speaker 1: final answers on it. Everything that was. We would have
Speaker 1: gave everybody everything, but we she was under the aristood
Speaker 1: and so when we wanted to pay somebody, they wouldn't
Speaker 1: let us. And uh, and so we were both the
Speaker 1: TLC and the Tony Brackston situation was because when they
Speaker 1: came to us and asked for money, we'd say, yep,
Speaker 1: we agree, we want to give them. They wouldn't let
Speaker 1: us do it, so they sued us and then they
Speaker 1: ultimately gave him the money. We wouldn't give people money,
Speaker 1: wouldn't they let your paper? Were you guys that labeled proper?
Speaker 1: Or a production deal? Because usually with the production deal,
Speaker 1: it's like he gotta get a he gotta get he
Speaker 1: gotta get production. There was, it was a JV. But
Speaker 1: the reality is we couldn't make the complete cause they
Speaker 1: they handled the first drink. So, um, do you have
Speaker 1: a relationship with Clide Davis? Yeah, what what is your
Speaker 1: feeling with him? Um? Clive is a businessman. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: a businessman. I've worked with him in so many on
Speaker 1: so many different things. Um that I've had to work
Speaker 1: with them. Um, you know, because it's Windey Houston, you know, Um,
Speaker 1: there was. I'm working with him right now with Johnny
Speaker 1: Johnny Mathis. Um wait, clap still has a label. He's
Speaker 1: at least a ring this. He's the head of this.
Speaker 1: He came up with this whole idea about Johnny Mathis doing,
Speaker 1: Um the song book. Um, okay, you know a new
Speaker 1: song book that, Um what is Clide Davis? Clive is
Speaker 1: maybe damn It takes a looking and then Johnny mathis,
Speaker 1: what's this? What's his vocal prowess? Like great he still
Speaker 1: he sounds great. I saw him on he was on
Speaker 1: Tavis Smiley. I think one of us watching him like
Speaker 1: a years ago. He sounds great. Okay, So before we
Speaker 1: wind down, and I know every songwriter does thislike all
Speaker 1: my songs are my children? Gun to your head? Gun
Speaker 1: to your head? If all your songs are personified as
Speaker 1: human beings on the Titanic and they're going down in
Speaker 1: the ship, which three songs are you saving? What is
Speaker 1: your Yes, it doesn't have to be like your biggest
Speaker 1: hits or whatever. But so don't say in the Road
Speaker 1: or whatever, because like, oh that got me my first
Speaker 1: house in Malibu. Like, but I mean, like what songs
Speaker 1: like give you goose bumps or best memories of recording it,
Speaker 1: or like ones that still impress you like I made that? Really?
Speaker 1: How did that come with me? That is a hard
Speaker 1: question because he you have to you when I think
Speaker 1: about I have to think about like, obviously I'm one
Speaker 1: of those will be a Whitney song because she's not here,
Speaker 1: so now XL and I mean baby tonight, I feel
Speaker 1: like very special because of that. Um, but not necessary
Speaker 1: because I love them more than any particular song cinema,
Speaker 1: So um, and I always give you the question, what's
Speaker 1: the best song I've ever written? I haven't written because
Speaker 1: and I But the truth is I really believe that. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't say that to to sound sound cool. I
Speaker 1: say it because I because I look at the songs
Speaker 1: that other people write. Damn, I wish I wrote that.
Speaker 1: So what three songs of yours could you like? I
Speaker 1: hate that, like, yeah, it could have been better, or
Speaker 1: I phone that one in well. I wish I had
Speaker 1: another opportunity to work with Michael Jackson and who would
Speaker 1: not have given him slave to the rhythm, but a
Speaker 1: better song I did do? Um Uh, I got it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did do that one, and it was. The funny
Speaker 1: thing is Michael Jackson has the song and get yeah
Speaker 1: gotta put my gotta put your heart on the line
Speaker 1: and uh. And I loved that I had that opportunity
Speaker 1: I was able to. I ultimately became friends with Michael
Speaker 1: and and found my places and find myself in places
Speaker 1: with Michael like what am I doing here? Throughout my career,
Speaker 1: I've I found my place myself at places where I like,
Speaker 1: I have to pinch myself, why how am I here? Um?
Speaker 1: So many times? And whether it's just being there as
Speaker 1: an artist or me presidents hanging with presidents, Uh, going
Speaker 1: to going to I went to a trip to Nice
Speaker 1: with Michael Jackson and saw him for Farm on the
Speaker 1: stage and he had me standing on the in the
Speaker 1: dressing room off to the side as he would go
Speaker 1: back and forth, and I'm like, and why am I here?
Speaker 1: Why am I here? When you said me Nation? I
Speaker 1: want how did that happen? Like the energy? So yeah,
Speaker 1: he did. Ultimately he said, you know, you and I
Speaker 1: we have the same sense of humor because we're both
Speaker 1: from Indiana. Hey, that's from truth. I think there's some
Speaker 1: truth to that. Um. Well, I gotta didn't answer your questions. No,
Speaker 1: of course you did. Uh, baby Face, I really, really,
Speaker 1: really truly want to thank you for letting us. Yes, man,
Speaker 1: pick your brain and I would say, in here, in
Speaker 1: your in your space. One of my Titanic baby Face
Speaker 1: songs would be Lady Lady like off. I love that song.
Speaker 1: It's like, God, you're such an R and B D Yo, man,
Speaker 1: that's if you thank that. I'm taking at the movies. Movies.
Speaker 1: I never do the title right, but you know, still
Speaker 1: there is a there is a cover, there's been a
Speaker 1: cover of Shoot Him Up Movies done by Moby Dick
Speaker 1: on No Limit Records. It is it is one of
Speaker 1: the worst. Here your life. I don't know what baby
Speaker 1: faces it's heard that No no, it shoot him Up
Speaker 1: movies done by by Moby Dick, who used to do
Speaker 1: all the hooks for No. That sounds like a bad idea,
Speaker 1: you know. I don't know if it's worse than the TJ.
Speaker 1: Swan and Whitney. Oh my god, yes, I still think
Speaker 1: this is it. Yeah, this was ninety eight. This is
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, you gotta do this is such
Speaker 1: a menial yet up, No, not just cover. It's just yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just here we go, come on ten. Okay, how
Speaker 1: do you know this? Fonte dude? Like y'all, I was
Speaker 1: a No Limit head, like I just there was in college,
Speaker 1: Like I just consumed too much music as a kid man. Okay,
Speaker 1: that hurts a little to wait to the hook, the hook,
Speaker 1: because that's what it really just gets kind of pain.
Speaker 1: This It sounds like me in my bedroom, according myself,
Speaker 1: sitting along to the radio. Keep trying right, there's a video.
Speaker 1: Oh it was a video. Oh my god, it was
Speaker 1: at least they at the movie. I want to have
Speaker 1: met with salons now all right, hello, here me go,
Speaker 1: come on, come with it total listen. Dude would go
Speaker 1: through shoot up. Oh you tried it, he tried it,
Speaker 1: he tried. All right, it's beautiful. Thank you baby, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you for that again. We appreciate uh everything that
Speaker 1: you've done. And thank you. You are you are a
Speaker 1: black guy, and just says of my life in the hallway.
Speaker 1: You get a chance to see a baby Face show today,
Speaker 1: like please do because you surprised the ship out of me.
Speaker 1: Where you jump in the crowd and do like go
Speaker 1: to church. It was just amazing. So I tell people
Speaker 1: that the show is amazing, and I just want to say,
Speaker 1: you're probably the last artist that everyone in my family
Speaker 1: was able to enjoy. Um. My dad bought two copies
Speaker 1: of Waiting to Exhale and kept one in the car
Speaker 1: one in the bed room. WHOA my mom. I called
Speaker 1: my mom just before this to let her know that
Speaker 1: I was interviewing you, and she like almost probably hopped
Speaker 1: on a plane to come meet my sister. She's the
Speaker 1: one that you know brought Tender Lover in the house
Speaker 1: and you know it's thinking like you are the one
Speaker 1: that brought my family together. I guess you could say, so,
Speaker 1: is there someone that you haven't worked with yet that
Speaker 1: I haven't worked with? You? Bang bang got all right,
Speaker 1: Well we should, we should, we should do that someday. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we definitely worked. But in general, I think, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's always artists that um that come up that that
Speaker 1: I'd be honor to work with. But you know, I
Speaker 1: have been so lucky to work with so many arts
Speaker 1: that if I don't, I'll be all right if you
Speaker 1: never make another record, Like you're good, dude, You're good
Speaker 1: ever forever. So it's like sugar Steve, alright, So we
Speaker 1: do our reflections at the end. Uh, what have you
Speaker 1: learned this episode? I'm still on one of the first
Speaker 1: things I heard. Forty nominations. Uh, that's incredible. You're just
Speaker 1: gonna say, probably got a nomination even for the Writer's Block.
Speaker 1: Even my Writer's Block is sponsored by nurse What did
Speaker 1: you I think I've learned that, like all these songs,
Speaker 1: you're such a machine that in my mind every song
Speaker 1: meant something deep and was based on something. But you're
Speaker 1: such a machine that it doesn't always And that's all
Speaker 1: right because it does to me. That's what I take
Speaker 1: a little man. What I learned is just really just
Speaker 1: kind of reinforce something I've always believed, just for him
Speaker 1: saying that it's all about the song, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, and just how it really is. Um, it's
Speaker 1: easy to give stuff away just because if you feel
Speaker 1: that it can be better served for another person. It's
Speaker 1: easy to be unselfish in that way because you just
Speaker 1: see it has a higher purpose and you know, Bobby
Speaker 1: could take it further than I could, or Boys the
Speaker 1: Man or whoever whoever. That's just something that's really inspiring
Speaker 1: and very very wise. Boss Bill Kobe Yo, yeah the
Speaker 1: slang Kobe, Yeah, should check out general hospital to hospital.
Speaker 1: But I gotta I was gonna say, when we when
Speaker 1: we stop this, what are we gonna we leave like
Speaker 1: five minutes from now? What's the what was it? We
Speaker 1: covered everything right? One thing we may have touched on
Speaker 1: a little bit, but just I guess we covered it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: never mind, what was that? Well? I was gonna ask you,
Speaker 1: do you prefer writing for women or men? Because you
Speaker 1: do such a great job writing for women, Like I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's any other males songwriter that can
Speaker 1: write for a woman the way that you do, so, like,
Speaker 1: do you have a preference. I don't have a preference,
Speaker 1: but I know that I can for women. It's a
Speaker 1: lot of times here in recent years when I get
Speaker 1: someone comes in the studio, we have a conversation and
Speaker 1: we talk a lot, and I get into it's like
Speaker 1: a doctor film moment by the time. So I go
Speaker 1: for tears in our first conversation. Are you trying to
Speaker 1: Barbara Walters? Them? What kind of question? I go in
Speaker 1: for the relationships and everything, so that we can get
Speaker 1: to a point to where we can so I can
Speaker 1: I can know them, and I can try to write
Speaker 1: from that perspective. Um and uh, because it gives you something,
Speaker 1: you know, because at that particular point, um, you don't.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you can guess about somebody and try to figure
Speaker 1: out who they are before you get to them. And
Speaker 1: it's like when Whitney first came and heard this all miracle,
Speaker 1: she wasn't ready for it, but when she heard it,
Speaker 1: she cried, um, and at least she had tears in
Speaker 1: her eyes. And so she said, that's not for me. Um.
Speaker 1: But and I thought to myself, to be honest, I
Speaker 1: thought to myself it's not for you, because it is
Speaker 1: for you, you know, and you don't. The truth is,
Speaker 1: I thought, you don't want to say things that you
Speaker 1: can relate to. UM, so ultimately you go, you go
Speaker 1: after songs that they don't touch you. Is that how
Speaker 1: you got to change your mind on the later on
Speaker 1: she decided to do the song, and I don't know
Speaker 1: what made her decide to do it exactly. Maybe, so
Speaker 1: all right, I have one more question. Sorry, this is
Speaker 1: a production question. UM. When I listened to like Jimmy Jamming,
Speaker 1: Tylor Louise, I can usually tell who there who their
Speaker 1: B team was for a certain or a certain era.
Speaker 1: I can never I don't think you've ever had like
Speaker 1: a B team under you or have you. I'm like
Speaker 1: just a team that you know doesn't care. Was kind
Speaker 1: of a B team in terms of he might produce
Speaker 1: some of the vocals. Darrel was really good at produce
Speaker 1: some of the vocals. But in terms of tracks and
Speaker 1: things in the early days, we didn't. We kind of
Speaker 1: like did it ourselves and um, and and we would
Speaker 1: would really I don't even really remember putting our name
Speaker 1: on something that if we didn't do the tracks, but
Speaker 1: we put our name on it like it was us
Speaker 1: that wasn't We usually just gave the credit to like
Speaker 1: it was Kao and Darrel, then they got the credit
Speaker 1: for producing it. Yeah, all right, man, this baby all right,
Speaker 1: all right, here it is. I used to work at
Speaker 1: def Jam a long time ago, and we went on
Speaker 1: this company retreat and I can't remember the entire story,
Speaker 1: but l A was telling the story about you guys
Speaker 1: took a I think it was a deal record to
Speaker 1: a club. You guys like pumped up. You guys thought
Speaker 1: this was gonna be like the biggest record in the world.
Speaker 1: You guys took it to the club and to test
Speaker 1: it out and it tanked. Like what do you do then? Like,
Speaker 1: how what was your how did you feel like knowing
Speaker 1: that your your intuition wasn't right on that one? What
Speaker 1: we learned is that that wasn't our gig. Uh. When
Speaker 1: Teddy came out with I wonder when we heard that
Speaker 1: at one and the first time I heard that, I said,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is this is changing the game,
Speaker 1: and I don't know, I don't know that we can
Speaker 1: compete with that um. And then when Teddy delivered my
Speaker 1: prerogative on the don't be cruel. I was like, uh,
Speaker 1: so rather than trying to be that, we just kind
Speaker 1: of went the other way. Um, And we weren't trying
Speaker 1: to be dance music people. You know, we didn't think
Speaker 1: we were gonna make everybody dance or say we were
Speaker 1: just gonna entertain and so um, it was really when
Speaker 1: we were going there checking these songs in the in
Speaker 1: the clubs. That was early on. It's like in the
Speaker 1: deal days, we didn't have it. We didn't have that
Speaker 1: wasn't that part of my thing? And so part of uh,
Speaker 1: part part of what happened is because of the ballot,
Speaker 1: because because I fell in love with Got Broken Hearts.
Speaker 1: That's that's ultimately what helped, you know, shape us as
Speaker 1: producers and and and writers. And that opened up the
Speaker 1: door for us because even though don't be cruel, it
Speaker 1: still was still with a love song. You know, Um
Speaker 1: what it was about. It wasn't let me get up
Speaker 1: in there, you know. So, Um, who was Jackie? I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: who was Jackie? Jackie? Don't be controuled and don't be cruel. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and don't be cruel. Regardless of the fact that I
Speaker 1: want you, Jackie, I can't compete that you want to
Speaker 1: be with me the same if you want creel And
Speaker 1: that's the app Bill, Boss Bill and I'm Faid Bill
Speaker 1: and sup baby Face, Thank you very much, Supreme, Goodbye.
Speaker 1: What's Love? Supreme is a production of My Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: This classic episode was produced by the team at Bendor.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.