WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Rebekah Gould Update 0:00:08.245 --> 0:00:12.405 School of Humans. I'm Catherine Townsend. 0:00:13.125 --> 0:00:15.965 Over the past five years making my true crime podcast 0:00:16.045 --> 0:00:19.125 Helen Gone, I've learned there's no such thing as a 0:00:19.165 --> 0:00:23.365 small town where murder never happens. I've received hundreds of 0:00:23.405 --> 0:00:26.805 messages from people all around the country asking for help 0:00:26.845 --> 0:00:30.045 with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and 0:00:30.085 --> 0:00:33.485 their communities. And now they have a new way to 0:00:33.525 --> 0:00:36.325 reach out. If you have a case you'd like me 0:00:36.365 --> 0:00:39.005 and my team to look into, you can reach out 0:00:39.085 --> 0:00:41.725 to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six 0:00:41.805 --> 0:00:45.005 seven eight seven four four six ' one four five. 0:00:45.805 --> 0:00:48.925 That's six seven eight seven four four six ' one 0:00:49.045 --> 0:01:28.445 four or five. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. As 0:01:28.485 --> 0:01:32.325 you know, we're launching a new series, but I can't 0:01:32.365 --> 0:01:35.405 start something new without returning to the case that started 0:01:35.485 --> 0:01:38.525 at all on Hele Gone and the case that changed 0:01:38.525 --> 0:01:43.165 my life forever, the murder of Rebecca Gould. The case 0:01:43.205 --> 0:01:46.005 file was finally released in full a few months back, 0:01:46.565 --> 0:01:49.485 and since then I have spent countless hours, many of 0:01:49.525 --> 0:01:52.645 them very late at night, reviewing it. As most of 0:01:52.685 --> 0:01:56.285 you know, in October of twenty twenty two, William Billy 0:01:56.365 --> 0:01:59.565 Miller was convicted of Rebecca's murder. He was sentenced to 0:01:59.645 --> 0:02:02.205 forty years in prison, which means that he will almost 0:02:02.325 --> 0:02:06.325 certainly spend the rest of his life behind bars. I 0:02:06.365 --> 0:02:09.805 am very happy that a violent killer and sexual predator 0:02:09.805 --> 0:02:13.045 has been taken off the streets, and I absolutely believe 0:02:13.245 --> 0:02:16.805 that Billy Miller was responsible for Rebecca's murder, at least partially. 0:02:17.965 --> 0:02:21.245 Side note here. When I did my last update episode, 0:02:21.565 --> 0:02:24.125 I mentioned that I was upset that the prosecutor hadn't 0:02:24.165 --> 0:02:26.325 kept his word to release the case file to doctor 0:02:26.405 --> 0:02:31.005 Larry Gould, Rebecca's father before it became public. So back 0:02:31.005 --> 0:02:34.045 in December, I was put in this very surreal situation 0:02:34.725 --> 0:02:38.285 of having filed a freedom of information request and then 0:02:38.365 --> 0:02:40.725 being one of the first people in the state to 0:02:40.845 --> 0:02:44.365 have the entire case file, and then of having to 0:02:44.405 --> 0:02:47.005 call Larry and break the news to him that his 0:02:47.165 --> 0:02:51.965 daughter's autopsy photos were now public. But shortly after that, 0:02:52.165 --> 0:02:54.205 I got a call from Mike McNeil of the Arkansas 0:02:54.245 --> 0:02:58.085 State Police. Mike asked that I set the record straight. 0:02:58.685 --> 0:03:00.845 He said the prosecutor was a friend of his and 0:03:00.925 --> 0:03:04.005 had done excellent work, and that the case file being 0:03:04.045 --> 0:03:06.965 made public was an o recite by his office. And 0:03:07.005 --> 0:03:10.685 not by the prosecutor's office. I do appreciate the hard 0:03:10.765 --> 0:03:14.005 work that the prosecutor's office did and the fact that 0:03:14.045 --> 0:03:17.605 they put Billy Miller behind bars where he belongs. And 0:03:17.685 --> 0:03:20.205 I've always said this podcast is not meant to be 0:03:20.245 --> 0:03:23.565 anti law enforcement. They have a hard job to do. 0:03:24.245 --> 0:03:27.205 I've always believed that Mike McNeil did an amazing job 0:03:27.245 --> 0:03:30.205 on this investigation, especially what he had to work with 0:03:30.645 --> 0:03:34.245 after his predecessors finished with the case. So I did 0:03:34.285 --> 0:03:41.845 want to make sure to get that message across. So 0:03:42.005 --> 0:03:45.245 the case file is out, Billy Miller's been convicted, But 0:03:45.325 --> 0:03:49.485 as I said before, reading through this massive case file 0:03:49.525 --> 0:03:52.805 has not changed my opinion. I still feel like Billy 0:03:52.805 --> 0:03:57.485 Miller's conviction is not the end of the story. While 0:03:57.525 --> 0:03:59.565 I was waiting for the case file to come out, 0:03:59.965 --> 0:04:03.405 there was a lot going on behind the scenes. Myself 0:04:03.485 --> 0:04:06.405 and a lot of other people, including private investigator Jennifer 0:04:06.405 --> 0:04:10.205 Buckoltz who started the Facebook group Unsolved Murder, Rebecca Gould, 0:04:10.365 --> 0:04:13.005 and the journalist and author George Jarrett, and a lot 0:04:13.045 --> 0:04:16.125 of other people have been following up on leads. So 0:04:16.285 --> 0:04:20.005 once again I went back to the very beginning, back 0:04:20.045 --> 0:04:22.965 to one of the very first conversations I had with Taylor, 0:04:23.005 --> 0:04:25.805 who was my producer in season one. This was back 0:04:25.845 --> 0:04:29.125 in twenty eighteen. I was just starting out on this case. 0:04:29.165 --> 0:04:31.965 I was living alone in my grandmother's cabin in the woods, 0:04:32.405 --> 0:04:36.005 and after going on local public radio, I was getting 0:04:36.005 --> 0:04:41.965 a lot of random tips. People were calling and texting. 0:04:42.365 --> 0:04:45.205 Hundreds of tips flooded in, so to keep track of them, 0:04:45.365 --> 0:04:47.525 we would talk about these pieces of information that we'd 0:04:47.525 --> 0:04:51.085 gotten and decide which one seemed credible. We did our 0:04:51.125 --> 0:04:53.885 best to run down every single tip we got until 0:04:53.885 --> 0:04:56.165 we either got to a dead end or a point 0:04:56.165 --> 0:04:58.005 where we decided we need to investigate further. 0:04:58.725 --> 0:05:01.645 Okay, so let me go back to these tips. 0:05:02.125 --> 0:05:06.085 All right, just heard you on KWOZ with Gary, and 0:05:06.125 --> 0:05:08.565 I just wanted to let you know that on that Saturday, 0:05:08.685 --> 0:05:11.445 on the weekend Rebecca was killed, my family and I 0:05:11.525 --> 0:05:13.805 lived right beside them, and we all set out at 0:05:13.805 --> 0:05:16.485 my brother in law's house all day and not sure 0:05:16.485 --> 0:05:18.205 what time it was, but it was in the afternoon. 0:05:18.245 --> 0:05:19.965 There was a little dark blue car with a guy 0:05:19.965 --> 0:05:21.445 and a woman that came by and went up to 0:05:21.485 --> 0:05:23.965 the barn, right past the trailer. The guy got out 0:05:24.005 --> 0:05:25.685 and I thought he was going to use the bathroom, 0:05:25.885 --> 0:05:27.245 but he went to the back of the car, put 0:05:27.285 --> 0:05:29.245 on like jogging pants and got a weeded her out 0:05:29.285 --> 0:05:31.845 and weeded it a little bit. Rebecca came out on 0:05:31.885 --> 0:05:34.325 the porch when they drove back by and stopped, and 0:05:34.365 --> 0:05:36.245 she went to the end of the porch and said, 0:05:36.285 --> 0:05:39.045 did you get it done? And he said yes, and 0:05:39.125 --> 0:05:41.805 they drove off. They had Texas tags on the car. 0:05:42.085 --> 0:05:44.285 Then a little while later, Rebecca came out to her car, 0:05:44.365 --> 0:05:46.205 opened the door and got something out and went back 0:05:46.245 --> 0:05:48.725 inside the trailer. She was wearing a gray tank top 0:05:48.765 --> 0:05:51.165 and a pair of gray sweatpants. We did tell the 0:05:51.245 --> 0:05:53.525 Arkansas State Police, and not sure it has anything to 0:05:53.565 --> 0:05:55.485 do with anything. It was just really strange because he 0:05:55.525 --> 0:05:57.765 only weeded for maybe about fifteen minutes or so, not 0:05:57.805 --> 0:05:59.925 long at all, and it was where the old barn is. 0:06:00.285 --> 0:06:02.125 Just thought it was strange and never seen the guy before. 0:06:02.165 --> 0:06:04.165 He had black hair and was young looking. Couldn't really 0:06:04.165 --> 0:06:04.685 see the woman. 0:06:06.005 --> 0:06:06.765 So there it is. 0:06:07.565 --> 0:06:10.805 Billy Miller and his family were there the whole time, 0:06:11.045 --> 0:06:14.525 lurking in the background. Linda Miller told police that she 0:06:14.765 --> 0:06:18.365 and Jeremy were at Casey's trailer that weekend that was them, 0:06:18.525 --> 0:06:21.605 that little blue car with the Texas plates, and the 0:06:21.645 --> 0:06:25.245 young man with the black hair was Jeremy Miller. Now, 0:06:25.325 --> 0:06:28.485 Billy Miller has claimed that he acted alone. He said 0:06:28.485 --> 0:06:31.085 no one in his family or anyone else had any 0:06:31.125 --> 0:06:31.925 idea what he did. 0:06:32.605 --> 0:06:33.925 He said that he was a monster. 0:06:34.805 --> 0:06:37.005 But I made a promise to Rebecca way back when 0:06:37.005 --> 0:06:39.685 I started this investigation that I was going to keep 0:06:39.725 --> 0:06:42.645 digging until I'm satisfied that I have answered the question 0:06:43.005 --> 0:06:45.845 of what really happened to Rebecca Gould in September two 0:06:45.885 --> 0:06:49.085 thousand and four in that tiny trailer in the backwoods 0:06:49.085 --> 0:07:12.005 of Guyan I want to focus on facts. I'm really 0:07:12.045 --> 0:07:14.765 not here to focus on again. What are the well 0:07:14.845 --> 0:07:18.845 documented and factual what I believe to be catastrophic mistakes 0:07:19.005 --> 0:07:21.645 made by the previous investigator on the case, Dennis Simon's. 0:07:22.805 --> 0:07:24.485 But I do want to take a second to talk 0:07:24.525 --> 0:07:27.645 about the Dateline episode, the one that aired covering Rebecca 0:07:27.685 --> 0:07:30.085 Gould's case, because a lot of people have asked me 0:07:30.125 --> 0:07:36.165 about it. While the episode was pretty factual, there's no 0:07:36.325 --> 0:07:39.325 easy way to say this. Dennis Simon's blatantly lied in 0:07:39.325 --> 0:07:42.405 that episode, and it made me sick to watch the 0:07:42.445 --> 0:07:45.045 b roll of him typing his computer, acting like he 0:07:45.125 --> 0:07:47.725 was really busy, and then staring out at a body 0:07:47.765 --> 0:07:50.685 of water as if he was pondering the case as 0:07:50.725 --> 0:07:53.805 HELLNGNG listeners know this is the exact opposite of what 0:07:53.965 --> 0:07:58.285 happened as usual. There was a story behind the story 0:07:58.485 --> 0:08:02.045 about the dateline episode. For the past three years, I've 0:08:02.085 --> 0:08:04.245 been talking to a producer at forty eight hours, a 0:08:04.365 --> 0:08:07.885 rival program. A few months ago, she called me with 0:08:07.925 --> 0:08:11.005 some disturbing information. She let me know that when she 0:08:11.165 --> 0:08:14.325 called the Arkansas State Police to say that forty eight 0:08:14.365 --> 0:08:17.685 hours wanted to run an episode about Rebecca's case, the 0:08:17.845 --> 0:08:21.205 Arkansas State Police told forty eight hours that if they 0:08:21.285 --> 0:08:24.805 talked to me or George Jared or Jennifer Bucklet, and 0:08:24.845 --> 0:08:28.125 they mentioned all three of us, unprompted by name, that 0:08:28.165 --> 0:08:29.965 they would not participate in the program. 0:08:30.765 --> 0:08:32.325 The producer refused. 0:08:32.485 --> 0:08:35.245 She said that that type of request was a violation 0:08:35.405 --> 0:08:38.685 of First Amendment rights. I also want to make it 0:08:38.685 --> 0:08:41.685 clear that the one exception to this was Mike McNeil, 0:08:41.765 --> 0:08:44.485 because the producer told me when she talked to Mike 0:08:45.045 --> 0:08:47.685 that he did agree to do an interview even if 0:08:47.685 --> 0:08:50.645 they talked to us. He was fine with the producer 0:08:50.685 --> 0:08:53.045 speaking to me, George and Jennifer as long as we 0:08:53.045 --> 0:08:56.085 were asked the tough questions, which obviously is fine with me. 0:08:56.725 --> 0:08:59.725 I talked to the Dateline producer at length. I shared 0:08:59.765 --> 0:09:02.685 information with them, just like I do with everyone. And 0:09:03.045 --> 0:09:06.565 I do wonder why, if there were no condition, why 0:09:06.645 --> 0:09:10.725 they wouldn't have had not just me, but other people 0:09:10.765 --> 0:09:15.125 on for interviews, why they would have aired pieces from 0:09:15.125 --> 0:09:19.125 the podcast without giving me the courtesy of allowing me 0:09:19.165 --> 0:09:23.285 to comment. I was very disappointed that someone like Dennis 0:09:23.285 --> 0:09:26.565 Simon's was given airtime and that the Arkansas State Police 0:09:26.645 --> 0:09:30.245 was allowed to paint this narrative of him working diligently 0:09:30.285 --> 0:09:32.645 on the case for years, because everyone who listens to 0:09:32.645 --> 0:09:36.725 this podcast should know that's just not what happened. I 0:09:36.765 --> 0:09:40.045 called him in several lives on the show. First, he 0:09:40.125 --> 0:09:43.325 said that after I brought in the witness statement from 0:09:43.365 --> 0:09:45.645 the person who told me that Casey had confessed to 0:09:45.645 --> 0:09:48.725 Rebecca's murder, and he read details that no one else knew, 0:09:50.085 --> 0:09:53.525 Dennis said that he immediately understood how serious this was. 0:09:54.165 --> 0:09:56.845 He left out the part about how he refused to 0:09:56.925 --> 0:09:59.925 take evidence, and you can see this in the case file. 0:10:00.005 --> 0:10:03.125 When he did go to reinterview some people who were 0:10:03.165 --> 0:10:06.845 involved in Casey's ALBI, rather than any in depth interviews, 0:10:07.125 --> 0:10:09.925 he literally sent them their own statements that they had 0:10:10.045 --> 0:10:12.165 made back in two thousand and four, asked them if 0:10:12.205 --> 0:10:15.525 anything had changed, and when they said no, he moved on. 0:10:16.125 --> 0:10:19.885 His so called interviews were all done in around five minutes. 0:10:20.645 --> 0:10:23.205 What really happened over and over was me and other 0:10:23.245 --> 0:10:25.605 people going in to try and give Dennis evidence and 0:10:25.685 --> 0:10:28.365 him refusing to take it. He didn't want to see 0:10:28.405 --> 0:10:32.205 anything that didn't incriminate Chris Cantrell, who we now know 0:10:32.285 --> 0:10:35.925 had nothing to do with Rebecca's death. Dennis told me 0:10:36.005 --> 0:10:38.445 over and over he was making sure that Chris Cantrell 0:10:38.525 --> 0:10:41.245 did life on the installment plan by putting him in 0:10:41.285 --> 0:10:48.165 prison as often as possible. I urge everyone out there 0:10:48.525 --> 0:10:50.965 to do a Foyer request for yourself and read the 0:10:51.125 --> 0:10:54.485 entire case file, because you don't need to take my 0:10:54.525 --> 0:10:57.605 word for it. The work or lack of work he 0:10:57.645 --> 0:11:00.765 did over a fifteen year period will speak for itself. 0:11:01.845 --> 0:11:04.925 I really loved Dateline, but in this case, I think 0:11:04.965 --> 0:11:07.605 the producer users made a bad call by allowing Dennis 0:11:07.605 --> 0:11:11.285 Simons to have a platform. We have fought so hard 0:11:11.325 --> 0:11:13.285 to tell the truth about what was going on during 0:11:13.285 --> 0:11:16.325 his time as lead investigator in this case. I really 0:11:16.365 --> 0:11:19.525 feel that making it seem like he's working diligently behind 0:11:19.525 --> 0:11:23.165 the scenes does a massive disservice to everyone out there 0:11:23.245 --> 0:11:29.925 trying to deal with potentially incompetent or corrupt investigators. Let's 0:11:29.965 --> 0:11:43.565 get back to Rebecca's case. Once Mike McNeil took over, 0:11:44.245 --> 0:11:47.085 he testified at the pre trial hearings that after looking 0:11:47.085 --> 0:11:49.285 at the case file, he came to the same conclusion 0:11:49.285 --> 0:11:52.085 that we did in the podcast. The cleanup scene at 0:11:52.085 --> 0:11:55.485 Casey's home indicated that Casey McCulla or someone connected to 0:11:55.525 --> 0:12:04.525 him and to that trailer killed rebeccah Gould. So Mike 0:12:04.565 --> 0:12:06.525 went back to the beginning to see if there was 0:12:06.525 --> 0:12:10.885 something or someone that law enforcement had missed, and soon 0:12:11.525 --> 0:12:14.365 he saw what the neighbors told us on the podcast, 0:12:14.805 --> 0:12:18.525 that Billy Miller, Casey's cousin, came to town right before 0:12:18.565 --> 0:12:21.725 Rebecca was murdered, and that he left right afterward. I'm 0:12:21.765 --> 0:12:24.845 sure he also noticed that Casey mentioned Billy coming to 0:12:24.885 --> 0:12:27.565 the house in his first interview with police and then 0:12:27.725 --> 0:12:31.965 never mentioned him again, even once investigators specifically asked Casey 0:12:32.085 --> 0:12:34.085 for a list of people who had been inside the 0:12:34.125 --> 0:12:38.885 house and outside it. Billy did not make Casey's list. 0:12:39.605 --> 0:12:42.565 Going to conduct an interview with Casey McCullough. 0:12:42.405 --> 0:12:44.845 Mike interviewed Casey in twenty twenty. 0:12:45.405 --> 0:12:50.605 It is September the eighteenth, twenty twenty, approximately ten am. 0:12:51.085 --> 0:12:52.685 We're in Melbourne, Arkansas. 0:12:54.325 --> 0:12:57.285 Mike started out by asking Casey to drive him over 0:12:57.325 --> 0:13:00.525 to the area of Wolf Farm, where Casey's grandparents used 0:13:00.565 --> 0:13:04.685 to live. This was also the place where Linda, Jeremy 0:13:04.725 --> 0:13:07.525 and Billy Miller's stayed when they were in town. He 0:13:07.605 --> 0:13:10.405 was friendly and approachable and kept Casey talking. 0:13:11.645 --> 0:13:17.285 Little Bill William his birth name is William Alma Miller, 0:13:17.365 --> 0:13:21.485 that he goes by little Bill Bill. Okay, he came 0:13:21.605 --> 0:13:26.765 up to help Linda and Jeremy move back to Texas. 0:13:26.965 --> 0:13:29.965 Okay, now I'm starting to yeah, Okay, ring a bell. 0:13:30.525 --> 0:13:30.965 Okay. 0:13:31.285 --> 0:13:34.805 So in his statement, he said that the first thing 0:13:34.885 --> 0:13:38.565 he did when he got up here to Melbourne, to 0:13:38.565 --> 0:13:41.845 Izard County was that he visited family and spent time 0:13:41.885 --> 0:13:47.885 with his mom. So my thinking is is that he 0:13:48.045 --> 0:13:52.405 was at the grandparents' house visiting like he said he was. 0:13:52.805 --> 0:13:56.645 Whenever you showed up to give Claude your truck. Okay, 0:13:57.525 --> 0:14:00.325 how else it doesn't make sense to me. How else 0:14:00.365 --> 0:14:04.165 would you know that that was little Bill out on 0:14:04.205 --> 0:14:07.565 the dirt road just by looking out the window, unless 0:14:07.605 --> 0:14:12.845 you had seen him just hours before. This is so 0:14:12.965 --> 0:14:16.365 long ago, Yeah, I know, but I mean, just try 0:14:16.445 --> 0:14:19.365 to try to have that what I'm saying, I think 0:14:19.485 --> 0:14:23.485 makes makes sense. I don't know how because by your statement, 0:14:24.405 --> 0:14:29.325 you said, Rebecca looked out the window and saw somebody 0:14:29.405 --> 0:14:31.325 on the road, and then you looked out the window 0:14:31.325 --> 0:14:33.805 and noticed that it was little Bill. How would you 0:14:33.845 --> 0:14:37.085 have known that that was little Bill unless you had 0:14:37.125 --> 0:14:41.365 seen Little Bill earlier? And little Bill says he was 0:14:41.445 --> 0:14:43.805 visiting family, so it makes sense to me that he 0:14:44.005 --> 0:14:47.125 was probably at the grandparents' house whenever you dropped your 0:14:47.125 --> 0:14:49.605 truck off. Right, that makes sense. 0:14:49.845 --> 0:14:52.565 I feel like, I mean, it was so long ago, 0:14:52.645 --> 0:14:55.405 but yeah, I mean I feel like I recognized him. 0:14:55.405 --> 0:15:01.725 I knew it was him. But yeah, like as far 0:15:01.765 --> 0:15:03.645 as what he was driving then I can't tell you 0:15:03.845 --> 0:15:06.205 or anything like that, but I knew what he looked 0:15:06.285 --> 0:15:08.405 like and wright and all that, and only has to 0:15:08.485 --> 0:15:10.565 do winded down. 0:15:13.885 --> 0:15:18.165 Well because I want to say it well. 0:15:20.085 --> 0:15:21.725 I'm gonna be honest with you. I mean, you're you're 0:15:21.765 --> 0:15:24.645 telling me all this stuff and it's it's hard to remember. Yeah, 0:15:24.685 --> 0:15:27.845 you're telling stuff that I know that is he telling me? 0:15:27.925 --> 0:15:31.165 The truth is that you're actually telling me yeah I 0:15:31.325 --> 0:15:32.685 said this, or I'm not. 0:15:33.485 --> 0:15:36.165 I'm not trying to get you, uh hemmed up and 0:15:36.685 --> 0:15:38.845 put words in your mouth. I'm just I'm just going 0:15:38.885 --> 0:15:41.645 to got a job to do. Well, I know, I know, 0:15:43.365 --> 0:15:47.445 mm hmm. 0:15:48.365 --> 0:15:50.685 One of the first things that I ever said on 0:15:50.765 --> 0:15:53.445 Hell Gone was that Monday morning is a weird time 0:15:53.485 --> 0:15:57.045 for a murder. Mike challenges Casey about this, about the 0:15:57.085 --> 0:16:00.965 fact that whoever killed Rebecca would presumably have had to 0:16:01.045 --> 0:16:04.405 know that Casey wasn't there, that there was no forced entry, 0:16:04.565 --> 0:16:07.525 and that this person hung around and cleaned up the scene. 0:16:10.325 --> 0:16:13.845 Well, you know what we talked about before is whoever 0:16:13.925 --> 0:16:18.005 did this knew that you were at work without a vehicle, 0:16:18.525 --> 0:16:21.805 and they knew Claude was out of state on a run. 0:16:22.165 --> 0:16:25.885 They knew and they knew Rebecca was there. That those 0:16:25.885 --> 0:16:28.365 are the three things that this person knew. 0:16:29.165 --> 0:16:29.765 Who is that? 0:16:30.605 --> 0:16:37.285 Okay, that's that's That's not very many people. And I'm 0:16:38.365 --> 0:16:41.365 I'm just going through theories and I'm going through I'm 0:16:41.365 --> 0:16:47.165 processing the information that I have. Billy is one of 0:16:47.205 --> 0:16:53.645 those people, Jeremy is one of those people with without 0:16:53.645 --> 0:16:58.805 a without a doubt in my mind. So you know, 0:16:59.245 --> 0:17:05.285 I just have to I need to process anybody that. 0:17:06.045 --> 0:17:09.765 And another thing, you know, there wasn't forced entry to 0:17:09.845 --> 0:17:15.245 the trailer. You said on multiple times that when Rebecca 0:17:15.405 --> 0:17:17.605 told you, the last thing she told you was that 0:17:17.645 --> 0:17:19.285 she was going back to the trailer to go to 0:17:19.285 --> 0:17:21.445 bed and that she was going to sleep all day 0:17:21.525 --> 0:17:23.445 until she had to come pick you up. And you 0:17:23.525 --> 0:17:27.285 also said that any time Rebecca was there by herself, 0:17:27.405 --> 0:17:30.485 especially if she was sleeping, she's dead bolt that front door, 0:17:30.845 --> 0:17:36.005 because you, on multiple occasions showed up and had to 0:17:36.125 --> 0:17:38.525 knock and knock and knock to get her to come 0:17:39.285 --> 0:17:42.445 unlock that dead bolt. That's a statement you made just 0:17:42.965 --> 0:17:45.565 in one of your first, first or second interviews. You 0:17:45.645 --> 0:17:50.125 made that known. Well, without there being forced entry into 0:17:50.165 --> 0:17:54.685 the home, who has access to to that who has 0:17:55.085 --> 0:17:57.645 that key to that dead bolt? You made it known 0:17:57.725 --> 0:18:00.165 in your interviews that there are only two people that 0:18:00.325 --> 0:18:06.045 had access to that key, Claude and your grandpa. Okay, okay, 0:18:07.085 --> 0:18:14.645 well again it could. It is a possibility that Jeremy 0:18:14.765 --> 0:18:19.285 or Billy took that key from your grandpa, unbeknownst to 0:18:19.325 --> 0:18:24.605 your grandpa, without your grandpa's knowledge. Jeremy and Billy were 0:18:24.645 --> 0:18:28.285 both into marijuana back then, into drugs. Both of them 0:18:28.325 --> 0:18:32.445 were a mess, were heathens back then. 0:18:38.845 --> 0:18:41.885 It's a little hard to hear, but Casey once again 0:18:42.685 --> 0:18:46.045 suggests to Mike that it could be JB. Chris Cantrell, 0:18:46.165 --> 0:18:52.805 or Jennifer Turner, all names we've heard before, and he 0:18:52.925 --> 0:18:56.765 blames the podcast. He says during this interview that the 0:18:56.845 --> 0:18:59.645 podcast reported that there was a man and a woman 0:18:59.765 --> 0:19:02.445 at his house over the weekend. Mike kind of shuts 0:19:02.485 --> 0:19:05.925 him down there. He says, no, that pulled LEAs had 0:19:05.965 --> 0:19:08.005 talked to the neighbors and that it was in the 0:19:08.045 --> 0:19:08.605 case file. 0:19:09.085 --> 0:19:10.285 The neighbors saw. 0:19:10.085 --> 0:19:12.525 A man and woman there over the weekend. It wasn't 0:19:12.565 --> 0:19:14.445 just erroneous reporting by the podcast. 0:19:16.245 --> 0:19:17.925 Is there's nothing else that I can help you with? 0:19:19.725 --> 0:19:20.205 I don't know. 0:19:20.285 --> 0:19:22.925 Is there I feel like there is, but I know 0:19:23.005 --> 0:19:24.205 you don't want to tell me anything. 0:19:24.805 --> 0:19:25.565 What are you talking about? 0:19:26.125 --> 0:19:26.605 I don't know. 0:19:26.645 --> 0:19:29.605 I just I was the one that was that was 0:19:29.605 --> 0:19:32.725 hanging out with her. You know real close to her. 0:19:33.365 --> 0:19:35.885 So if somebody's saying something that I know is false 0:19:36.005 --> 0:19:40.525 in their line, you know other suspects. I know you, 0:19:41.165 --> 0:19:46.645 you gotta be careful, but you know I mean JB, 0:19:48.045 --> 0:19:51.725 Chris Control, Jennifer Turner. I'm I'm still on a different 0:19:51.725 --> 0:19:54.685 place than I know your I know y'r. But what 0:19:54.685 --> 0:19:59.845 what I had the most motive was Jennifer. Unless you 0:19:59.845 --> 0:20:01.405 want to watch the podcast, then it's me. 0:20:06.325 --> 0:20:09.805 Remember, Rebecca went missing on September twentieth, two thousand and four, 0:20:10.005 --> 0:20:13.165 after dropping Casey off at work early that morning, And 0:20:13.245 --> 0:20:15.565 as you all know, one of the big questions we've 0:20:15.565 --> 0:20:19.245 had this entire time was about Casey stopping at home 0:20:19.645 --> 0:20:23.325 on Tuesday morning before work. Casey has always said he 0:20:23.405 --> 0:20:25.485 never went home on Monday night. He went out with 0:20:25.565 --> 0:20:28.725 his friends and stayed over at Laryn's house. But one 0:20:28.725 --> 0:20:31.045 of the big questions we've always had was about Casey 0:20:31.085 --> 0:20:34.525 stopping at home on Tuesday morning before work. We wondered 0:20:34.605 --> 0:20:37.325 how he could have stopped at the house and walked 0:20:37.365 --> 0:20:39.845 through that trailer with blood on the floors and all 0:20:39.885 --> 0:20:42.325 of Rebecca's stuff there and not know something was wrong. 0:20:43.245 --> 0:20:45.885 And the case file does not clear this up. In fact, 0:20:46.565 --> 0:20:50.605 it makes this story even stranger because when Mark Colling's Worth, 0:20:50.685 --> 0:20:54.005 one of the original Arkansas State Police investigators on the case, 0:20:54.485 --> 0:20:57.405 talked to Casey on September twenty second, two thousand and four, 0:20:58.165 --> 0:21:03.485 Casey told Mark that he went home twice on Tuesday morning. Now, 0:21:04.125 --> 0:21:08.205 this doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Casey 0:21:08.285 --> 0:21:11.365 said he went to work early, before eight am. He 0:21:11.405 --> 0:21:14.005 said he called Rebecca's mom and she said she hadn't 0:21:14.045 --> 0:21:17.485 seen Rebecca. He said at that point he told his boss, 0:21:18.285 --> 0:21:20.805 Bruce Shipman, that he wanted to go home to grab 0:21:20.845 --> 0:21:23.765 a fresh shirt. He said this was kind of an excuse, 0:21:23.845 --> 0:21:27.245 just to check on things at home. Bruce said he 0:21:27.405 --> 0:21:30.165 was gone for forty five minutes to an hour and 0:21:30.205 --> 0:21:32.325 then came back to work, but he didn't stay at 0:21:32.325 --> 0:21:36.405 work long. Just a few minutes later, he told his 0:21:36.485 --> 0:21:38.245 boss he was going to need the day off. He 0:21:38.325 --> 0:21:40.485 was worried about Rebecca. He wanted to see what was 0:21:40.525 --> 0:21:43.685 going on at home, so he left and on the 0:21:43.765 --> 0:21:46.285 way home, he was pulled over by Charlie Melton, the 0:21:46.365 --> 0:21:48.765 officer who had been sent to the trailer to do 0:21:48.805 --> 0:21:56.685 the welfare check by Rebecca's mother. Now, when they got 0:21:56.685 --> 0:22:00.285 to the trailer. Charlie Melton's report, which we can finally 0:22:00.365 --> 0:22:03.325 read after all these years, said that Casey went with 0:22:03.445 --> 0:22:06.405 him into the back bedroom where he and Rebecca had 0:22:06.445 --> 0:22:09.405 been sleeping. When they went in there, they saw that 0:22:09.485 --> 0:22:12.445 the bed had been stripped, and Casey made a comment 0:22:12.565 --> 0:22:16.045 about how he was surprised by that. Then Charlie asked 0:22:16.125 --> 0:22:17.805 him if he could look in the washing machine, which 0:22:17.885 --> 0:22:21.925 they did. That's when Charlie saw the bloody bedding in there. 0:22:23.205 --> 0:22:25.805 But in a separate interview that Casey did the day before, 0:22:25.965 --> 0:22:30.005 this time with special Agent David Lafferty, Casey said that 0:22:30.685 --> 0:22:32.725 on that first trip home, when he went to get 0:22:32.725 --> 0:22:35.725 a shirt, that he did look inside the washing machine 0:22:35.765 --> 0:22:40.005 before coming back with Charlie Melton. So if that was true, 0:22:40.165 --> 0:22:43.085 why did Casey act surprised about the sheets being off 0:22:43.125 --> 0:22:46.045 the bed and how could he have missed the blood 0:22:46.085 --> 0:22:48.085 in that washing machine if he did look in it. 0:22:48.925 --> 0:22:52.805 Remember these are not interviews taking place years later. This 0:22:52.965 --> 0:23:02.525 was literally two days after Rebecca went missing. In my opinion, 0:23:02.805 --> 0:23:05.685 those crime scene photos make it very hard to belie 0:23:05.685 --> 0:23:07.845 that anyone could have walked into that trailer and not 0:23:07.965 --> 0:23:12.045 known something was horribly wrong. There was blood everywhere all 0:23:12.085 --> 0:23:16.005 over the carpet smeared around the trailer. There were obvious 0:23:16.045 --> 0:23:19.725 signs that someone had tried to clean up. Casey also said, 0:23:19.765 --> 0:23:23.925 by the way that the back door was padlocked when 0:23:23.965 --> 0:23:28.485 he left for work. Now that door had been kicked out. 0:23:28.685 --> 0:23:32.365 Billy Miller later told investigators that's how he dragged Rebecca's 0:23:32.365 --> 0:23:34.725 body out of the house. He kicked the back door 0:23:34.765 --> 0:23:37.925 out and threw her body over the fence. So we're 0:23:37.965 --> 0:23:41.285 supposed to believe not only did Casey not notice any 0:23:41.325 --> 0:23:44.125 of the blood, but that he didn't notice his back 0:23:44.165 --> 0:23:51.085 door had been kicked out. I also studied the early 0:23:51.125 --> 0:23:54.165 interviews with the neighbors, because they, in my opinion, were 0:23:54.165 --> 0:23:57.205 the key to this case. They told police something else 0:23:57.445 --> 0:24:00.125 that was very interesting. They said that over the weekend 0:24:00.565 --> 0:24:03.525 they saw several people out there on the porch, not 0:24:03.765 --> 0:24:06.605 just Casey and Rebecca with a revisit from Billy, as 0:24:06.645 --> 0:24:10.805