1 00:00:08,245 --> 00:00:12,405 Speaker 1: School of Humans. I'm Catherine Townsend. 2 00:00:13,125 --> 00:00:15,965 Speaker 2: Over the past five years making my true crime podcast 3 00:00:16,045 --> 00:00:19,125 Speaker 2: Helen Gone, I've learned there's no such thing as a 4 00:00:19,165 --> 00:00:23,365 Speaker 2: small town where murder never happens. I've received hundreds of 5 00:00:23,405 --> 00:00:26,805 Speaker 2: messages from people all around the country asking for help 6 00:00:26,845 --> 00:00:30,045 Speaker 2: with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and 7 00:00:30,085 --> 00:00:33,485 Speaker 2: their communities. And now they have a new way to 8 00:00:33,525 --> 00:00:36,325 Speaker 2: reach out. If you have a case you'd like me 9 00:00:36,365 --> 00:00:39,005 Speaker 2: and my team to look into, you can reach out 10 00:00:39,085 --> 00:00:41,725 Speaker 2: to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six 11 00:00:41,805 --> 00:00:45,005 Speaker 2: seven eight seven four four six ' one four five. 12 00:00:45,805 --> 00:00:48,925 Speaker 2: That's six seven eight seven four four six ' one 13 00:00:49,045 --> 00:01:28,445 Speaker 2: four or five. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. As 14 00:01:28,485 --> 00:01:32,325 Speaker 2: you know, we're launching a new series, but I can't 15 00:01:32,365 --> 00:01:35,405 Speaker 2: start something new without returning to the case that started 16 00:01:35,485 --> 00:01:38,525 Speaker 2: at all on Hele Gone and the case that changed 17 00:01:38,525 --> 00:01:43,165 Speaker 2: my life forever, the murder of Rebecca Gould. The case 18 00:01:43,205 --> 00:01:46,005 Speaker 2: file was finally released in full a few months back, 19 00:01:46,565 --> 00:01:49,485 Speaker 2: and since then I have spent countless hours, many of 20 00:01:49,525 --> 00:01:52,645 Speaker 2: them very late at night, reviewing it. As most of 21 00:01:52,685 --> 00:01:56,285 Speaker 2: you know, in October of twenty twenty two, William Billy 22 00:01:56,365 --> 00:01:59,565 Speaker 2: Miller was convicted of Rebecca's murder. He was sentenced to 23 00:01:59,645 --> 00:02:02,205 Speaker 2: forty years in prison, which means that he will almost 24 00:02:02,325 --> 00:02:06,325 Speaker 2: certainly spend the rest of his life behind bars. I 25 00:02:06,365 --> 00:02:09,805 Speaker 2: am very happy that a violent killer and sexual predator 26 00:02:09,805 --> 00:02:13,045 Speaker 2: has been taken off the streets, and I absolutely believe 27 00:02:13,245 --> 00:02:16,805 Speaker 2: that Billy Miller was responsible for Rebecca's murder, at least partially. 28 00:02:17,965 --> 00:02:21,245 Speaker 2: Side note here. When I did my last update episode, 29 00:02:21,565 --> 00:02:24,125 Speaker 2: I mentioned that I was upset that the prosecutor hadn't 30 00:02:24,165 --> 00:02:26,325 Speaker 2: kept his word to release the case file to doctor 31 00:02:26,405 --> 00:02:31,005 Speaker 2: Larry Gould, Rebecca's father before it became public. So back 32 00:02:31,005 --> 00:02:34,045 Speaker 2: in December, I was put in this very surreal situation 33 00:02:34,725 --> 00:02:38,285 Speaker 2: of having filed a freedom of information request and then 34 00:02:38,365 --> 00:02:40,725 Speaker 2: being one of the first people in the state to 35 00:02:40,845 --> 00:02:44,365 Speaker 2: have the entire case file, and then of having to 36 00:02:44,405 --> 00:02:47,005 Speaker 2: call Larry and break the news to him that his 37 00:02:47,165 --> 00:02:51,965 Speaker 2: daughter's autopsy photos were now public. But shortly after that, 38 00:02:52,165 --> 00:02:54,205 Speaker 2: I got a call from Mike McNeil of the Arkansas 39 00:02:54,245 --> 00:02:58,085 Speaker 2: State Police. Mike asked that I set the record straight. 40 00:02:58,685 --> 00:03:00,845 Speaker 2: He said the prosecutor was a friend of his and 41 00:03:00,925 --> 00:03:04,005 Speaker 2: had done excellent work, and that the case file being 42 00:03:04,045 --> 00:03:06,965 Speaker 2: made public was an o recite by his office. And 43 00:03:07,005 --> 00:03:10,685 Speaker 2: not by the prosecutor's office. I do appreciate the hard 44 00:03:10,765 --> 00:03:14,005 Speaker 2: work that the prosecutor's office did and the fact that 45 00:03:14,045 --> 00:03:17,605 Speaker 2: they put Billy Miller behind bars where he belongs. And 46 00:03:17,685 --> 00:03:20,205 Speaker 2: I've always said this podcast is not meant to be 47 00:03:20,245 --> 00:03:23,565 Speaker 2: anti law enforcement. They have a hard job to do. 48 00:03:24,245 --> 00:03:27,205 Speaker 2: I've always believed that Mike McNeil did an amazing job 49 00:03:27,245 --> 00:03:30,205 Speaker 2: on this investigation, especially what he had to work with 50 00:03:30,645 --> 00:03:34,245 Speaker 2: after his predecessors finished with the case. So I did 51 00:03:34,285 --> 00:03:41,845 Speaker 2: want to make sure to get that message across. So 52 00:03:42,005 --> 00:03:45,245 Speaker 2: the case file is out, Billy Miller's been convicted, But 53 00:03:45,325 --> 00:03:49,485 Speaker 2: as I said before, reading through this massive case file 54 00:03:49,525 --> 00:03:52,805 Speaker 2: has not changed my opinion. I still feel like Billy 55 00:03:52,805 --> 00:03:57,485 Speaker 2: Miller's conviction is not the end of the story. While 56 00:03:57,525 --> 00:03:59,565 Speaker 2: I was waiting for the case file to come out, 57 00:03:59,965 --> 00:04:03,405 Speaker 2: there was a lot going on behind the scenes. Myself 58 00:04:03,485 --> 00:04:06,405 Speaker 2: and a lot of other people, including private investigator Jennifer 59 00:04:06,405 --> 00:04:10,205 Speaker 2: Buckoltz who started the Facebook group Unsolved Murder, Rebecca Gould, 60 00:04:10,365 --> 00:04:13,005 Speaker 2: and the journalist and author George Jarrett, and a lot 61 00:04:13,045 --> 00:04:16,125 Speaker 2: of other people have been following up on leads. So 62 00:04:16,285 --> 00:04:20,005 Speaker 2: once again I went back to the very beginning, back 63 00:04:20,045 --> 00:04:22,965 Speaker 2: to one of the very first conversations I had with Taylor, 64 00:04:23,005 --> 00:04:25,805 Speaker 2: who was my producer in season one. This was back 65 00:04:25,845 --> 00:04:29,125 Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen. I was just starting out on this case. 66 00:04:29,165 --> 00:04:31,965 Speaker 2: I was living alone in my grandmother's cabin in the woods, 67 00:04:32,405 --> 00:04:36,005 Speaker 2: and after going on local public radio, I was getting 68 00:04:36,005 --> 00:04:41,965 Speaker 2: a lot of random tips. People were calling and texting. 69 00:04:42,365 --> 00:04:45,205 Speaker 2: Hundreds of tips flooded in, so to keep track of them, 70 00:04:45,365 --> 00:04:47,525 Speaker 2: we would talk about these pieces of information that we'd 71 00:04:47,525 --> 00:04:51,085 Speaker 2: gotten and decide which one seemed credible. We did our 72 00:04:51,125 --> 00:04:53,885 Speaker 2: best to run down every single tip we got until 73 00:04:53,885 --> 00:04:56,165 Speaker 2: we either got to a dead end or a point 74 00:04:56,165 --> 00:04:58,005 Speaker 2: where we decided we need to investigate further. 75 00:04:58,725 --> 00:05:01,645 Speaker 1: Okay, so let me go back to these tips. 76 00:05:02,125 --> 00:05:06,085 Speaker 2: All right, just heard you on KWOZ with Gary, and 77 00:05:06,125 --> 00:05:08,565 Speaker 2: I just wanted to let you know that on that Saturday, 78 00:05:08,685 --> 00:05:11,445 Speaker 2: on the weekend Rebecca was killed, my family and I 79 00:05:11,525 --> 00:05:13,805 Speaker 2: lived right beside them, and we all set out at 80 00:05:13,805 --> 00:05:16,485 Speaker 2: my brother in law's house all day and not sure 81 00:05:16,485 --> 00:05:18,205 Speaker 2: what time it was, but it was in the afternoon. 82 00:05:18,245 --> 00:05:19,965 Speaker 2: There was a little dark blue car with a guy 83 00:05:19,965 --> 00:05:21,445 Speaker 2: and a woman that came by and went up to 84 00:05:21,485 --> 00:05:23,965 Speaker 2: the barn, right past the trailer. The guy got out 85 00:05:24,005 --> 00:05:25,685 Speaker 2: and I thought he was going to use the bathroom, 86 00:05:25,885 --> 00:05:27,245 Speaker 2: but he went to the back of the car, put 87 00:05:27,285 --> 00:05:29,245 Speaker 2: on like jogging pants and got a weeded her out 88 00:05:29,285 --> 00:05:31,845 Speaker 2: and weeded it a little bit. Rebecca came out on 89 00:05:31,885 --> 00:05:34,325 Speaker 2: the porch when they drove back by and stopped, and 90 00:05:34,365 --> 00:05:36,245 Speaker 2: she went to the end of the porch and said, 91 00:05:36,285 --> 00:05:39,045 Speaker 2: did you get it done? And he said yes, and 92 00:05:39,125 --> 00:05:41,805 Speaker 2: they drove off. They had Texas tags on the car. 93 00:05:42,085 --> 00:05:44,285 Speaker 2: Then a little while later, Rebecca came out to her car, 94 00:05:44,365 --> 00:05:46,205 Speaker 2: opened the door and got something out and went back 95 00:05:46,245 --> 00:05:48,725 Speaker 2: inside the trailer. She was wearing a gray tank top 96 00:05:48,765 --> 00:05:51,165 Speaker 2: and a pair of gray sweatpants. We did tell the 97 00:05:51,245 --> 00:05:53,525 Speaker 2: Arkansas State Police, and not sure it has anything to 98 00:05:53,565 --> 00:05:55,485 Speaker 2: do with anything. It was just really strange because he 99 00:05:55,525 --> 00:05:57,765 Speaker 2: only weeded for maybe about fifteen minutes or so, not 100 00:05:57,805 --> 00:05:59,925 Speaker 2: long at all, and it was where the old barn is. 101 00:06:00,285 --> 00:06:02,125 Speaker 2: Just thought it was strange and never seen the guy before. 102 00:06:02,165 --> 00:06:04,165 Speaker 2: He had black hair and was young looking. Couldn't really 103 00:06:04,165 --> 00:06:04,685 Speaker 2: see the woman. 104 00:06:06,005 --> 00:06:06,765 Speaker 1: So there it is. 105 00:06:07,565 --> 00:06:10,805 Speaker 2: Billy Miller and his family were there the whole time, 106 00:06:11,045 --> 00:06:14,525 Speaker 2: lurking in the background. Linda Miller told police that she 107 00:06:14,765 --> 00:06:18,365 Speaker 2: and Jeremy were at Casey's trailer that weekend that was them, 108 00:06:18,525 --> 00:06:21,605 Speaker 2: that little blue car with the Texas plates, and the 109 00:06:21,645 --> 00:06:25,245 Speaker 2: young man with the black hair was Jeremy Miller. Now, 110 00:06:25,325 --> 00:06:28,485 Speaker 2: Billy Miller has claimed that he acted alone. He said 111 00:06:28,485 --> 00:06:31,085 Speaker 2: no one in his family or anyone else had any 112 00:06:31,125 --> 00:06:31,925 Speaker 2: idea what he did. 113 00:06:32,605 --> 00:06:33,925 Speaker 1: He said that he was a monster. 114 00:06:34,805 --> 00:06:37,005 Speaker 2: But I made a promise to Rebecca way back when 115 00:06:37,005 --> 00:06:39,685 Speaker 2: I started this investigation that I was going to keep 116 00:06:39,725 --> 00:06:42,645 Speaker 2: digging until I'm satisfied that I have answered the question 117 00:06:43,005 --> 00:06:45,845 Speaker 2: of what really happened to Rebecca Gould in September two 118 00:06:45,885 --> 00:06:49,085 Speaker 2: thousand and four in that tiny trailer in the backwoods 119 00:06:49,085 --> 00:07:12,005 Speaker 2: of Guyan I want to focus on facts. I'm really 120 00:07:12,045 --> 00:07:14,765 Speaker 2: not here to focus on again. What are the well 121 00:07:14,845 --> 00:07:18,845 Speaker 2: documented and factual what I believe to be catastrophic mistakes 122 00:07:19,005 --> 00:07:21,645 Speaker 2: made by the previous investigator on the case, Dennis Simon's. 123 00:07:22,805 --> 00:07:24,485 Speaker 2: But I do want to take a second to talk 124 00:07:24,525 --> 00:07:27,645 Speaker 2: about the Dateline episode, the one that aired covering Rebecca 125 00:07:27,685 --> 00:07:30,085 Speaker 2: Gould's case, because a lot of people have asked me 126 00:07:30,125 --> 00:07:36,165 Speaker 2: about it. While the episode was pretty factual, there's no 127 00:07:36,325 --> 00:07:39,325 Speaker 2: easy way to say this. Dennis Simon's blatantly lied in 128 00:07:39,325 --> 00:07:42,405 Speaker 2: that episode, and it made me sick to watch the 129 00:07:42,445 --> 00:07:45,045 Speaker 2: b roll of him typing his computer, acting like he 130 00:07:45,125 --> 00:07:47,725 Speaker 2: was really busy, and then staring out at a body 131 00:07:47,765 --> 00:07:50,685 Speaker 2: of water as if he was pondering the case as 132 00:07:50,725 --> 00:07:53,805 Speaker 2: HELLNGNG listeners know this is the exact opposite of what 133 00:07:53,965 --> 00:07:58,285 Speaker 2: happened as usual. There was a story behind the story 134 00:07:58,485 --> 00:08:02,045 Speaker 2: about the dateline episode. For the past three years, I've 135 00:08:02,085 --> 00:08:04,245 Speaker 2: been talking to a producer at forty eight hours, a 136 00:08:04,365 --> 00:08:07,885 Speaker 2: rival program. A few months ago, she called me with 137 00:08:07,925 --> 00:08:11,005 Speaker 2: some disturbing information. She let me know that when she 138 00:08:11,165 --> 00:08:14,325 Speaker 2: called the Arkansas State Police to say that forty eight 139 00:08:14,365 --> 00:08:17,685 Speaker 2: hours wanted to run an episode about Rebecca's case, the 140 00:08:17,845 --> 00:08:21,205 Speaker 2: Arkansas State Police told forty eight hours that if they 141 00:08:21,285 --> 00:08:24,805 Speaker 2: talked to me or George Jared or Jennifer Bucklet, and 142 00:08:24,845 --> 00:08:28,125 Speaker 2: they mentioned all three of us, unprompted by name, that 143 00:08:28,165 --> 00:08:29,965 Speaker 2: they would not participate in the program. 144 00:08:30,765 --> 00:08:32,325 Speaker 1: The producer refused. 145 00:08:32,485 --> 00:08:35,245 Speaker 2: She said that that type of request was a violation 146 00:08:35,405 --> 00:08:38,685 Speaker 2: of First Amendment rights. I also want to make it 147 00:08:38,685 --> 00:08:41,685 Speaker 2: clear that the one exception to this was Mike McNeil, 148 00:08:41,765 --> 00:08:44,485 Speaker 2: because the producer told me when she talked to Mike 149 00:08:45,045 --> 00:08:47,685 Speaker 2: that he did agree to do an interview even if 150 00:08:47,685 --> 00:08:50,645 Speaker 2: they talked to us. He was fine with the producer 151 00:08:50,685 --> 00:08:53,045 Speaker 2: speaking to me, George and Jennifer as long as we 152 00:08:53,045 --> 00:08:56,085 Speaker 2: were asked the tough questions, which obviously is fine with me. 153 00:08:56,725 --> 00:08:59,725 Speaker 2: I talked to the Dateline producer at length. I shared 154 00:08:59,765 --> 00:09:02,685 Speaker 2: information with them, just like I do with everyone. And 155 00:09:03,045 --> 00:09:06,565 Speaker 2: I do wonder why, if there were no condition, why 156 00:09:06,645 --> 00:09:10,725 Speaker 2: they wouldn't have had not just me, but other people 157 00:09:10,765 --> 00:09:15,125 Speaker 2: on for interviews, why they would have aired pieces from 158 00:09:15,125 --> 00:09:19,125 Speaker 2: the podcast without giving me the courtesy of allowing me 159 00:09:19,165 --> 00:09:23,285 Speaker 2: to comment. I was very disappointed that someone like Dennis 160 00:09:23,285 --> 00:09:26,565 Speaker 2: Simon's was given airtime and that the Arkansas State Police 161 00:09:26,645 --> 00:09:30,245 Speaker 2: was allowed to paint this narrative of him working diligently 162 00:09:30,285 --> 00:09:32,645 Speaker 2: on the case for years, because everyone who listens to 163 00:09:32,645 --> 00:09:36,725 Speaker 2: this podcast should know that's just not what happened. I 164 00:09:36,765 --> 00:09:40,045 Speaker 2: called him in several lives on the show. First, he 165 00:09:40,125 --> 00:09:43,325 Speaker 2: said that after I brought in the witness statement from 166 00:09:43,365 --> 00:09:45,645 Speaker 2: the person who told me that Casey had confessed to 167 00:09:45,645 --> 00:09:48,725 Speaker 2: Rebecca's murder, and he read details that no one else knew, 168 00:09:50,085 --> 00:09:53,525 Speaker 2: Dennis said that he immediately understood how serious this was. 169 00:09:54,165 --> 00:09:56,845 Speaker 2: He left out the part about how he refused to 170 00:09:56,925 --> 00:09:59,925 Speaker 2: take evidence, and you can see this in the case file. 171 00:10:00,005 --> 00:10:03,125 Speaker 2: When he did go to reinterview some people who were 172 00:10:03,165 --> 00:10:06,845 Speaker 2: involved in Casey's ALBI, rather than any in depth interviews, 173 00:10:07,125 --> 00:10:09,925 Speaker 2: he literally sent them their own statements that they had 174 00:10:10,045 --> 00:10:12,165 Speaker 2: made back in two thousand and four, asked them if 175 00:10:12,205 --> 00:10:15,525 Speaker 2: anything had changed, and when they said no, he moved on. 176 00:10:16,125 --> 00:10:19,885 Speaker 2: His so called interviews were all done in around five minutes. 177 00:10:20,645 --> 00:10:23,205 Speaker 2: What really happened over and over was me and other 178 00:10:23,245 --> 00:10:25,605 Speaker 2: people going in to try and give Dennis evidence and 179 00:10:25,685 --> 00:10:28,365 Speaker 2: him refusing to take it. He didn't want to see 180 00:10:28,405 --> 00:10:32,205 Speaker 2: anything that didn't incriminate Chris Cantrell, who we now know 181 00:10:32,285 --> 00:10:35,925 Speaker 2: had nothing to do with Rebecca's death. Dennis told me 182 00:10:36,005 --> 00:10:38,445 Speaker 2: over and over he was making sure that Chris Cantrell 183 00:10:38,525 --> 00:10:41,245 Speaker 2: did life on the installment plan by putting him in 184 00:10:41,285 --> 00:10:48,165 Speaker 2: prison as often as possible. I urge everyone out there 185 00:10:48,525 --> 00:10:50,965 Speaker 2: to do a Foyer request for yourself and read the 186 00:10:51,125 --> 00:10:54,485 Speaker 2: entire case file, because you don't need to take my 187 00:10:54,525 --> 00:10:57,605 Speaker 2: word for it. The work or lack of work he 188 00:10:57,645 --> 00:11:00,765 Speaker 2: did over a fifteen year period will speak for itself. 189 00:11:01,845 --> 00:11:04,925 Speaker 2: I really loved Dateline, but in this case, I think 190 00:11:04,965 --> 00:11:07,605 Speaker 2: the producer users made a bad call by allowing Dennis 191 00:11:07,605 --> 00:11:11,285 Speaker 2: Simons to have a platform. We have fought so hard 192 00:11:11,325 --> 00:11:13,285 Speaker 2: to tell the truth about what was going on during 193 00:11:13,285 --> 00:11:16,325 Speaker 2: his time as lead investigator in this case. I really 194 00:11:16,365 --> 00:11:19,525 Speaker 2: feel that making it seem like he's working diligently behind 195 00:11:19,525 --> 00:11:23,165 Speaker 2: the scenes does a massive disservice to everyone out there 196 00:11:23,245 --> 00:11:29,925 Speaker 2: trying to deal with potentially incompetent or corrupt investigators. Let's 197 00:11:29,965 --> 00:11:43,565 Speaker 2: get back to Rebecca's case. Once Mike McNeil took over, 198 00:11:44,245 --> 00:11:47,085 Speaker 2: he testified at the pre trial hearings that after looking 199 00:11:47,085 --> 00:11:49,285 Speaker 2: at the case file, he came to the same conclusion 200 00:11:49,285 --> 00:11:52,085 Speaker 2: that we did in the podcast. The cleanup scene at 201 00:11:52,085 --> 00:11:55,485 Speaker 2: Casey's home indicated that Casey McCulla or someone connected to 202 00:11:55,525 --> 00:12:04,525 Speaker 2: him and to that trailer killed rebeccah Gould. So Mike 203 00:12:04,565 --> 00:12:06,525 Speaker 2: went back to the beginning to see if there was 204 00:12:06,525 --> 00:12:10,885 Speaker 2: something or someone that law enforcement had missed, and soon 205 00:12:11,525 --> 00:12:14,365 Speaker 2: he saw what the neighbors told us on the podcast, 206 00:12:14,805 --> 00:12:18,525 Speaker 2: that Billy Miller, Casey's cousin, came to town right before 207 00:12:18,565 --> 00:12:21,725 Speaker 2: Rebecca was murdered, and that he left right afterward. I'm 208 00:12:21,765 --> 00:12:24,845 Speaker 2: sure he also noticed that Casey mentioned Billy coming to 209 00:12:24,885 --> 00:12:27,565 Speaker 2: the house in his first interview with police and then 210 00:12:27,725 --> 00:12:31,965 Speaker 2: never mentioned him again, even once investigators specifically asked Casey 211 00:12:32,085 --> 00:12:34,085 Speaker 2: for a list of people who had been inside the 212 00:12:34,125 --> 00:12:38,885 Speaker 2: house and outside it. Billy did not make Casey's list. 213 00:12:39,605 --> 00:12:42,565 Speaker 3: Going to conduct an interview with Casey McCullough. 214 00:12:42,405 --> 00:12:44,845 Speaker 1: Mike interviewed Casey in twenty twenty. 215 00:12:45,405 --> 00:12:50,605 Speaker 3: It is September the eighteenth, twenty twenty, approximately ten am. 216 00:12:51,085 --> 00:12:52,685 Speaker 3: We're in Melbourne, Arkansas. 217 00:12:54,325 --> 00:12:57,285 Speaker 2: Mike started out by asking Casey to drive him over 218 00:12:57,325 --> 00:13:00,525 Speaker 2: to the area of Wolf Farm, where Casey's grandparents used 219 00:13:00,565 --> 00:13:04,685 Speaker 2: to live. This was also the place where Linda, Jeremy 220 00:13:04,725 --> 00:13:07,525 Speaker 2: and Billy Miller's stayed when they were in town. He 221 00:13:07,605 --> 00:13:10,405 Speaker 2: was friendly and approachable and kept Casey talking. 222 00:13:11,645 --> 00:13:17,285 Speaker 3: Little Bill William his birth name is William Alma Miller, 223 00:13:17,365 --> 00:13:21,485 Speaker 3: that he goes by little Bill Bill. Okay, he came 224 00:13:21,605 --> 00:13:26,765 Speaker 3: up to help Linda and Jeremy move back to Texas. 225 00:13:26,965 --> 00:13:29,965 Speaker 4: Okay, now I'm starting to yeah, Okay, ring a bell. 226 00:13:30,525 --> 00:13:30,965 Speaker 5: Okay. 227 00:13:31,285 --> 00:13:34,805 Speaker 3: So in his statement, he said that the first thing 228 00:13:34,885 --> 00:13:38,565 Speaker 3: he did when he got up here to Melbourne, to 229 00:13:38,565 --> 00:13:41,845 Speaker 3: Izard County was that he visited family and spent time 230 00:13:41,885 --> 00:13:47,885 Speaker 3: with his mom. So my thinking is is that he 231 00:13:48,045 --> 00:13:52,405 Speaker 3: was at the grandparents' house visiting like he said he was. 232 00:13:52,805 --> 00:13:56,645 Speaker 3: Whenever you showed up to give Claude your truck. Okay, 233 00:13:57,525 --> 00:14:00,325 Speaker 3: how else it doesn't make sense to me. How else 234 00:14:00,365 --> 00:14:04,165 Speaker 3: would you know that that was little Bill out on 235 00:14:04,205 --> 00:14:07,565 Speaker 3: the dirt road just by looking out the window, unless 236 00:14:07,605 --> 00:14:12,845 Speaker 3: you had seen him just hours before. This is so 237 00:14:12,965 --> 00:14:16,365 Speaker 3: long ago, Yeah, I know, but I mean, just try 238 00:14:16,445 --> 00:14:19,365 Speaker 3: to try to have that what I'm saying, I think 239 00:14:19,485 --> 00:14:23,485 Speaker 3: makes makes sense. I don't know how because by your statement, 240 00:14:24,405 --> 00:14:29,325 Speaker 3: you said, Rebecca looked out the window and saw somebody 241 00:14:29,405 --> 00:14:31,325 Speaker 3: on the road, and then you looked out the window 242 00:14:31,325 --> 00:14:33,805 Speaker 3: and noticed that it was little Bill. How would you 243 00:14:33,845 --> 00:14:37,085 Speaker 3: have known that that was little Bill unless you had 244 00:14:37,125 --> 00:14:41,365 Speaker 3: seen Little Bill earlier? And little Bill says he was 245 00:14:41,445 --> 00:14:43,805 Speaker 3: visiting family, so it makes sense to me that he 246 00:14:44,005 --> 00:14:47,125 Speaker 3: was probably at the grandparents' house whenever you dropped your 247 00:14:47,125 --> 00:14:49,605 Speaker 3: truck off. Right, that makes sense. 248 00:14:49,845 --> 00:14:52,565 Speaker 4: I feel like, I mean, it was so long ago, 249 00:14:52,645 --> 00:14:55,405 Speaker 4: but yeah, I mean I feel like I recognized him. 250 00:14:55,405 --> 00:15:01,725 Speaker 4: I knew it was him. But yeah, like as far 251 00:15:01,765 --> 00:15:03,645 Speaker 4: as what he was driving then I can't tell you 252 00:15:03,845 --> 00:15:06,205 Speaker 4: or anything like that, but I knew what he looked 253 00:15:06,285 --> 00:15:08,405 Speaker 4: like and wright and all that, and only has to 254 00:15:08,485 --> 00:15:10,565 Speaker 4: do winded down. 255 00:15:13,885 --> 00:15:18,165 Speaker 3: Well because I want to say it well. 256 00:15:20,085 --> 00:15:21,725 Speaker 6: I'm gonna be honest with you. I mean, you're you're 257 00:15:21,765 --> 00:15:24,645 Speaker 6: telling me all this stuff and it's it's hard to remember. Yeah, 258 00:15:24,685 --> 00:15:27,845 Speaker 6: you're telling stuff that I know that is he telling me? 259 00:15:27,925 --> 00:15:31,165 Speaker 4: The truth is that you're actually telling me yeah I 260 00:15:31,325 --> 00:15:32,685 Speaker 4: said this, or I'm not. 261 00:15:33,485 --> 00:15:36,165 Speaker 3: I'm not trying to get you, uh hemmed up and 262 00:15:36,685 --> 00:15:38,845 Speaker 3: put words in your mouth. I'm just I'm just going 263 00:15:38,885 --> 00:15:41,645 Speaker 3: to got a job to do. Well, I know, I know, 264 00:15:43,365 --> 00:15:47,445 Speaker 3: mm hmm. 265 00:15:48,365 --> 00:15:50,685 Speaker 2: One of the first things that I ever said on 266 00:15:50,765 --> 00:15:53,445 Speaker 2: Hell Gone was that Monday morning is a weird time 267 00:15:53,485 --> 00:15:57,045 Speaker 2: for a murder. Mike challenges Casey about this, about the 268 00:15:57,085 --> 00:16:00,965 Speaker 2: fact that whoever killed Rebecca would presumably have had to 269 00:16:01,045 --> 00:16:04,405 Speaker 2: know that Casey wasn't there, that there was no forced entry, 270 00:16:04,565 --> 00:16:07,525 Speaker 2: and that this person hung around and cleaned up the scene. 271 00:16:10,325 --> 00:16:13,845 Speaker 3: Well, you know what we talked about before is whoever 272 00:16:13,925 --> 00:16:18,005 Speaker 3: did this knew that you were at work without a vehicle, 273 00:16:18,525 --> 00:16:21,805 Speaker 3: and they knew Claude was out of state on a run. 274 00:16:22,165 --> 00:16:25,885 Speaker 3: They knew and they knew Rebecca was there. That those 275 00:16:25,885 --> 00:16:28,365 Speaker 3: are the three things that this person knew. 276 00:16:29,165 --> 00:16:29,765 Speaker 7: Who is that? 277 00:16:30,605 --> 00:16:37,285 Speaker 3: Okay, that's that's That's not very many people. And I'm 278 00:16:38,365 --> 00:16:41,365 Speaker 3: I'm just going through theories and I'm going through I'm 279 00:16:41,365 --> 00:16:47,165 Speaker 3: processing the information that I have. Billy is one of 280 00:16:47,205 --> 00:16:53,645 Speaker 3: those people, Jeremy is one of those people with without 281 00:16:53,645 --> 00:16:58,805 Speaker 3: a without a doubt in my mind. So you know, 282 00:16:59,245 --> 00:17:05,285 Speaker 3: I just have to I need to process anybody that. 283 00:17:06,045 --> 00:17:09,765 Speaker 3: And another thing, you know, there wasn't forced entry to 284 00:17:09,845 --> 00:17:15,245 Speaker 3: the trailer. You said on multiple times that when Rebecca 285 00:17:15,405 --> 00:17:17,605 Speaker 3: told you, the last thing she told you was that 286 00:17:17,645 --> 00:17:19,285 Speaker 3: she was going back to the trailer to go to 287 00:17:19,285 --> 00:17:21,445 Speaker 3: bed and that she was going to sleep all day 288 00:17:21,525 --> 00:17:23,445 Speaker 3: until she had to come pick you up. And you 289 00:17:23,525 --> 00:17:27,285 Speaker 3: also said that any time Rebecca was there by herself, 290 00:17:27,405 --> 00:17:30,485 Speaker 3: especially if she was sleeping, she's dead bolt that front door, 291 00:17:30,845 --> 00:17:36,005 Speaker 3: because you, on multiple occasions showed up and had to 292 00:17:36,125 --> 00:17:38,525 Speaker 3: knock and knock and knock to get her to come 293 00:17:39,285 --> 00:17:42,445 Speaker 3: unlock that dead bolt. That's a statement you made just 294 00:17:42,965 --> 00:17:45,565 Speaker 3: in one of your first, first or second interviews. You 295 00:17:45,645 --> 00:17:50,125 Speaker 3: made that known. Well, without there being forced entry into 296 00:17:50,165 --> 00:17:54,685 Speaker 3: the home, who has access to to that who has 297 00:17:55,085 --> 00:17:57,645 Speaker 3: that key to that dead bolt? You made it known 298 00:17:57,725 --> 00:18:00,165 Speaker 3: in your interviews that there are only two people that 299 00:18:00,325 --> 00:18:06,045 Speaker 3: had access to that key, Claude and your grandpa. Okay, okay, 300 00:18:07,085 --> 00:18:14,645 Speaker 3: well again it could. It is a possibility that Jeremy 301 00:18:14,765 --> 00:18:19,285 Speaker 3: or Billy took that key from your grandpa, unbeknownst to 302 00:18:19,325 --> 00:18:24,605 Speaker 3: your grandpa, without your grandpa's knowledge. Jeremy and Billy were 303 00:18:24,645 --> 00:18:28,285 Speaker 3: both into marijuana back then, into drugs. Both of them 304 00:18:28,325 --> 00:18:32,445 Speaker 3: were a mess, were heathens back then. 305 00:18:38,845 --> 00:18:41,885 Speaker 2: It's a little hard to hear, but Casey once again 306 00:18:42,685 --> 00:18:46,045 Speaker 2: suggests to Mike that it could be JB. Chris Cantrell, 307 00:18:46,165 --> 00:18:52,805 Speaker 2: or Jennifer Turner, all names we've heard before, and he 308 00:18:52,925 --> 00:18:56,765 Speaker 2: blames the podcast. He says during this interview that the 309 00:18:56,845 --> 00:18:59,645 Speaker 2: podcast reported that there was a man and a woman 310 00:18:59,765 --> 00:19:02,445 Speaker 2: at his house over the weekend. Mike kind of shuts 311 00:19:02,485 --> 00:19:05,925 Speaker 2: him down there. He says, no, that pulled LEAs had 312 00:19:05,965 --> 00:19:08,005 Speaker 2: talked to the neighbors and that it was in the 313 00:19:08,045 --> 00:19:08,605 Speaker 2: case file. 314 00:19:09,085 --> 00:19:10,285 Speaker 1: The neighbors saw. 315 00:19:10,085 --> 00:19:12,525 Speaker 2: A man and woman there over the weekend. It wasn't 316 00:19:12,565 --> 00:19:14,445 Speaker 2: just erroneous reporting by the podcast. 317 00:19:16,245 --> 00:19:17,925 Speaker 4: Is there's nothing else that I can help you with? 318 00:19:19,725 --> 00:19:20,205 Speaker 3: I don't know. 319 00:19:20,285 --> 00:19:22,925 Speaker 4: Is there I feel like there is, but I know 320 00:19:23,005 --> 00:19:24,205 Speaker 4: you don't want to tell me anything. 321 00:19:24,805 --> 00:19:25,565 Speaker 3: What are you talking about? 322 00:19:26,125 --> 00:19:26,605 Speaker 8: I don't know. 323 00:19:26,645 --> 00:19:29,605 Speaker 4: I just I was the one that was that was 324 00:19:29,605 --> 00:19:32,725 Speaker 4: hanging out with her. You know real close to her. 325 00:19:33,365 --> 00:19:35,885 Speaker 4: So if somebody's saying something that I know is false 326 00:19:36,005 --> 00:19:40,525 Speaker 4: in their line, you know other suspects. I know you, 327 00:19:41,165 --> 00:19:46,645 Speaker 4: you gotta be careful, but you know I mean JB, 328 00:19:48,045 --> 00:19:51,725 Speaker 4: Chris Control, Jennifer Turner. I'm I'm still on a different 329 00:19:51,725 --> 00:19:54,685 Speaker 4: place than I know your I know y'r. But what 330 00:19:54,685 --> 00:19:59,845 Speaker 4: what I had the most motive was Jennifer. Unless you 331 00:19:59,845 --> 00:20:01,405 Speaker 4: want to watch the podcast, then it's me. 332 00:20:06,325 --> 00:20:09,805 Speaker 2: Remember, Rebecca went missing on September twentieth, two thousand and four, 333 00:20:10,005 --> 00:20:13,165 Speaker 2: after dropping Casey off at work early that morning, And 334 00:20:13,245 --> 00:20:15,565 Speaker 2: as you all know, one of the big questions we've 335 00:20:15,565 --> 00:20:19,245 Speaker 2: had this entire time was about Casey stopping at home 336 00:20:19,645 --> 00:20:23,325 Speaker 2: on Tuesday morning before work. Casey has always said he 337 00:20:23,405 --> 00:20:25,485 Speaker 2: never went home on Monday night. He went out with 338 00:20:25,565 --> 00:20:28,725 Speaker 2: his friends and stayed over at Laryn's house. But one 339 00:20:28,725 --> 00:20:31,045 Speaker 2: of the big questions we've always had was about Casey 340 00:20:31,085 --> 00:20:34,525 Speaker 2: stopping at home on Tuesday morning before work. We wondered 341 00:20:34,605 --> 00:20:37,325 Speaker 2: how he could have stopped at the house and walked 342 00:20:37,365 --> 00:20:39,845 Speaker 2: through that trailer with blood on the floors and all 343 00:20:39,885 --> 00:20:42,325 Speaker 2: of Rebecca's stuff there and not know something was wrong. 344 00:20:43,245 --> 00:20:45,885 Speaker 2: And the case file does not clear this up. In fact, 345 00:20:46,565 --> 00:20:50,605 Speaker 2: it makes this story even stranger because when Mark Colling's Worth, 346 00:20:50,685 --> 00:20:54,005 Speaker 2: one of the original Arkansas State Police investigators on the case, 347 00:20:54,485 --> 00:20:57,405 Speaker 2: talked to Casey on September twenty second, two thousand and four, 348 00:20:58,165 --> 00:21:03,485 Speaker 2: Casey told Mark that he went home twice on Tuesday morning. Now, 349 00:21:04,125 --> 00:21:08,205 Speaker 2: this doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Casey 350 00:21:08,285 --> 00:21:11,365 Speaker 2: said he went to work early, before eight am. He 351 00:21:11,405 --> 00:21:14,005 Speaker 2: said he called Rebecca's mom and she said she hadn't 352 00:21:14,045 --> 00:21:17,485 Speaker 2: seen Rebecca. He said at that point he told his boss, 353 00:21:18,285 --> 00:21:20,805 Speaker 2: Bruce Shipman, that he wanted to go home to grab 354 00:21:20,845 --> 00:21:23,765 Speaker 2: a fresh shirt. He said this was kind of an excuse, 355 00:21:23,845 --> 00:21:27,245 Speaker 2: just to check on things at home. Bruce said he 356 00:21:27,405 --> 00:21:30,165 Speaker 2: was gone for forty five minutes to an hour and 357 00:21:30,205 --> 00:21:32,325 Speaker 2: then came back to work, but he didn't stay at 358 00:21:32,325 --> 00:21:36,405 Speaker 2: work long. Just a few minutes later, he told his 359 00:21:36,485 --> 00:21:38,245 Speaker 2: boss he was going to need the day off. He 360 00:21:38,325 --> 00:21:40,485 Speaker 2: was worried about Rebecca. He wanted to see what was 361 00:21:40,525 --> 00:21:43,685 Speaker 2: going on at home, so he left and on the 362 00:21:43,765 --> 00:21:46,285 Speaker 2: way home, he was pulled over by Charlie Melton, the 363 00:21:46,365 --> 00:21:48,765 Speaker 2: officer who had been sent to the trailer to do 364 00:21:48,805 --> 00:21:56,685 Speaker 2: the welfare check by Rebecca's mother. Now, when they got 365 00:21:56,685 --> 00:22:00,285 Speaker 2: to the trailer. Charlie Melton's report, which we can finally 366 00:22:00,365 --> 00:22:03,325 Speaker 2: read after all these years, said that Casey went with 367 00:22:03,445 --> 00:22:06,405 Speaker 2: him into the back bedroom where he and Rebecca had 368 00:22:06,445 --> 00:22:09,405 Speaker 2: been sleeping. When they went in there, they saw that 369 00:22:09,485 --> 00:22:12,445 Speaker 2: the bed had been stripped, and Casey made a comment 370 00:22:12,565 --> 00:22:16,045 Speaker 2: about how he was surprised by that. Then Charlie asked 371 00:22:16,125 --> 00:22:17,805 Speaker 2: him if he could look in the washing machine, which 372 00:22:17,885 --> 00:22:21,925 Speaker 2: they did. That's when Charlie saw the bloody bedding in there. 373 00:22:23,205 --> 00:22:25,805 Speaker 2: But in a separate interview that Casey did the day before, 374 00:22:25,965 --> 00:22:30,005 Speaker 2: this time with special Agent David Lafferty, Casey said that 375 00:22:30,685 --> 00:22:32,725 Speaker 2: on that first trip home, when he went to get 376 00:22:32,725 --> 00:22:35,725 Speaker 2: a shirt, that he did look inside the washing machine 377 00:22:35,765 --> 00:22:40,005 Speaker 2: before coming back with Charlie Melton. So if that was true, 378 00:22:40,165 --> 00:22:43,085 Speaker 2: why did Casey act surprised about the sheets being off 379 00:22:43,125 --> 00:22:46,045 Speaker 2: the bed and how could he have missed the blood 380 00:22:46,085 --> 00:22:48,085 Speaker 2: in that washing machine if he did look in it. 381 00:22:48,925 --> 00:22:52,805 Speaker 2: Remember these are not interviews taking place years later. This 382 00:22:52,965 --> 00:23:02,525 Speaker 2: was literally two days after Rebecca went missing. In my opinion, 383 00:23:02,805 --> 00:23:05,685 Speaker 2: those crime scene photos make it very hard to belie 384 00:23:05,685 --> 00:23:07,845 Speaker 2: that anyone could have walked into that trailer and not 385 00:23:07,965 --> 00:23:12,045 Speaker 2: known something was horribly wrong. There was blood everywhere all 386 00:23:12,085 --> 00:23:16,005 Speaker 2: over the carpet smeared around the trailer. There were obvious 387 00:23:16,045 --> 00:23:19,725 Speaker 2: signs that someone had tried to clean up. Casey also said, 388 00:23:19,765 --> 00:23:23,925 Speaker 2: by the way that the back door was padlocked when 389 00:23:23,965 --> 00:23:28,485 Speaker 2: he left for work. Now that door had been kicked out. 390 00:23:28,685 --> 00:23:32,365 Speaker 2: Billy Miller later told investigators that's how he dragged Rebecca's 391 00:23:32,365 --> 00:23:34,725 Speaker 2: body out of the house. He kicked the back door 392 00:23:34,765 --> 00:23:37,925 Speaker 2: out and threw her body over the fence. So we're 393 00:23:37,965 --> 00:23:41,285 Speaker 2: supposed to believe not only did Casey not notice any 394 00:23:41,325 --> 00:23:44,125 Speaker 2: of the blood, but that he didn't notice his back 395 00:23:44,165 --> 00:23:51,085 Speaker 2: door had been kicked out. I also studied the early 396 00:23:51,125 --> 00:23:54,165 Speaker 2: interviews with the neighbors, because they, in my opinion, were 397 00:23:54,165 --> 00:23:57,205 Speaker 2: the key to this case. They told police something else 398 00:23:57,445 --> 00:24:00,125 Speaker 2: that was very interesting. They said that over the weekend 399 00:24:00,565 --> 00:24:03,525 Speaker 2: they saw several people out there on the porch, not 400 00:24:03,765 --> 00:24:06,605 Speaker 2: just Casey and Rebecca with a revisit from Billy, as 401 00:24:06,645 --> 00:24:10,805 Speaker 2: Casey claimed. They said on Saturday night, there were four 402 00:24:10,925 --> 00:24:14,005 Speaker 2: or maybe five guys on the porch, all young men 403 00:24:14,405 --> 00:24:21,485 Speaker 2: and Rebecca. So who were these guys? When I started 404 00:24:21,485 --> 00:24:24,165 Speaker 2: this case, One of the first things that Laryn McClure, 405 00:24:24,245 --> 00:24:26,165 Speaker 2: who was a huge help to me, by the way 406 00:24:26,205 --> 00:24:30,965 Speaker 2: in this case told me was that in Casey's friend group, 407 00:24:31,085 --> 00:24:34,325 Speaker 2: not many people went to that trailer. Mainly it was 408 00:24:34,365 --> 00:24:37,685 Speaker 2: just family there. So let's take a closer look at 409 00:24:37,685 --> 00:24:44,445 Speaker 2: Casey's family. Casey McCullough has several brothers, Chris, Corey, and 410 00:24:44,485 --> 00:24:47,405 Speaker 2: a half brother named Randy. Randy was away in the 411 00:24:47,405 --> 00:24:50,085 Speaker 2: military at the time. Chris was working a job and 412 00:24:50,085 --> 00:24:53,925 Speaker 2: had a young baby at home, but Corey, Casey's youngest brother, 413 00:24:54,005 --> 00:24:56,925 Speaker 2: is more of an enigma. He was under eighteen at 414 00:24:56,925 --> 00:24:59,885 Speaker 2: the time in high school. He told police he was 415 00:24:59,925 --> 00:25:01,725 Speaker 2: living with his mother and that he was in Sarcy, 416 00:25:01,845 --> 00:25:05,365 Speaker 2: Arkansas at the time Rebecca was murdered. But later my 417 00:25:05,685 --> 00:25:10,005 Speaker 2: found out that this wasn't true because Casey's father, Claude McCullough, 418 00:25:10,285 --> 00:25:14,245 Speaker 2: told police that Corey was there that weekend. Claude said 419 00:25:14,285 --> 00:25:17,405 Speaker 2: that he saw Corey at their grandparents' house near Wolf Farm, 420 00:25:18,285 --> 00:25:21,445 Speaker 2: the same home where Billy Miller, his mom, Linda, and 421 00:25:21,565 --> 00:25:24,685 Speaker 2: Jeremy Miller were staying. It was a couple of miles 422 00:25:24,685 --> 00:25:31,485 Speaker 2: from Casey's trailer. Back in twenty eighteen, I was contacted 423 00:25:31,525 --> 00:25:35,485 Speaker 2: by someone close to Casey mccully's younger brother, Corey. This 424 00:25:35,565 --> 00:25:39,485 Speaker 2: person told me that Corey and Casey had told them 425 00:25:39,605 --> 00:25:43,085 Speaker 2: multiple times over the years that both of them Corey 426 00:25:43,125 --> 00:25:46,205 Speaker 2: and Casey were in the trailer when Rebecca was murdered. 427 00:25:47,165 --> 00:25:51,045 Speaker 2: Yet Corey had never been interviewed by the Arkansas State Police, 428 00:25:51,085 --> 00:25:52,565 Speaker 2: not once in sixteen years. 429 00:25:54,645 --> 00:25:56,965 Speaker 7: Been Your Day of Birth nine one eighty seven. 430 00:25:58,405 --> 00:26:02,125 Speaker 2: Finally, in twenty twenty, Mike McNeil sat down with Corey 431 00:26:02,125 --> 00:26:02,765 Speaker 2: for an interview. 432 00:26:03,965 --> 00:26:08,605 Speaker 4: Here we go, so, uh, polygraph, Let's get a few 433 00:26:08,605 --> 00:26:09,205 Speaker 4: things clear. 434 00:26:09,565 --> 00:26:12,605 Speaker 2: Uh. First off, Corey said he'd only met Rebecca a 435 00:26:12,605 --> 00:26:16,285 Speaker 2: few times. He described her as always happy, always smiling. 436 00:26:17,285 --> 00:26:20,845 Speaker 2: Mike asked Corey about that weekend before Rebecca went missing. 437 00:26:21,445 --> 00:26:25,445 Speaker 2: Corey said he didn't remember where he was. Mike sounds skeptical. 438 00:26:25,925 --> 00:26:28,485 Speaker 2: He told him that he had spoken to Claude he 439 00:26:28,565 --> 00:26:32,845 Speaker 2: knew Corey had been in Melbourne on Sunday. Mike asked 440 00:26:32,885 --> 00:26:36,885 Speaker 2: Corey who he thought could have killed Rebecca. Corey said 441 00:26:37,005 --> 00:26:39,685 Speaker 2: Casey had told him over the years that he knew 442 00:26:39,725 --> 00:26:44,925 Speaker 2: who did it, but declined to mention names. Corey voluntarily 443 00:26:44,965 --> 00:26:48,125 Speaker 2: took a lot of detector test. It came back inconclusive. 444 00:26:48,885 --> 00:26:51,085 Speaker 2: He didn't pass, but he didn't fail either. 445 00:26:52,765 --> 00:26:55,805 Speaker 5: Well, Corey, how was that stressful? 446 00:26:55,965 --> 00:26:56,485 Speaker 3: Stressful? 447 00:26:57,205 --> 00:27:02,845 Speaker 2: I've never been so stressed in alive. Mike had another 448 00:27:02,885 --> 00:27:05,125 Speaker 2: piece of physical evidence that had been sitting in storage 449 00:27:05,125 --> 00:27:08,485 Speaker 2: for years, a purple washcloth that had been wadded up 450 00:27:08,565 --> 00:27:11,085 Speaker 2: under the bed where Rebecca slept and where some of 451 00:27:11,085 --> 00:27:14,245 Speaker 2: the bloody bedding was dashed. Now nothing in the case 452 00:27:14,285 --> 00:27:17,885 Speaker 2: while indicates that there was any usable DNA on this rag, 453 00:27:18,445 --> 00:27:22,245 Speaker 2: but Corey didn't know that. Mike decided it was time 454 00:27:22,285 --> 00:27:28,085 Speaker 2: to take a chance. Corey completely denied having anything to 455 00:27:28,125 --> 00:27:32,925 Speaker 2: do with Rebecca's death or knowing who did. Basically, in 456 00:27:32,965 --> 00:27:35,685 Speaker 2: the end, Corey called Mike's bluff. He said he needed 457 00:27:35,685 --> 00:27:38,725 Speaker 2: to either arrest him or let him go, and Corey 458 00:27:38,845 --> 00:27:48,765 Speaker 2: walked out of there. Mike was also tracking other family members. 459 00:27:49,005 --> 00:27:54,685 Speaker 2: He was tracking Billy Miller's movements and investigating Billy's brother, Jeremy. 460 00:27:54,805 --> 00:27:57,125 Speaker 2: At the time of Rebecca's murder, Billy was about twenty 461 00:27:57,125 --> 00:28:00,645 Speaker 2: seven years old and Jeremy was fifteen. The story that 462 00:28:00,685 --> 00:28:03,405 Speaker 2: the family told was that Linda had moved to the 463 00:28:03,445 --> 00:28:06,325 Speaker 2: Melbourne area with Jeremy a few months before Rebecca's murder, 464 00:28:07,045 --> 00:28:11,085 Speaker 2: but that Jeremy started having trouble in school. Linda decided 465 00:28:11,125 --> 00:28:14,405 Speaker 2: she wanted to move, so Billy drove from Texas, where 466 00:28:14,445 --> 00:28:15,605 Speaker 2: he was living at the time. 467 00:28:15,565 --> 00:28:17,005 Speaker 1: To help them. 468 00:28:17,325 --> 00:28:19,925 Speaker 2: Back then, Billy was married his first wife, Amanda, and 469 00:28:19,965 --> 00:28:23,645 Speaker 2: they had two daughters. Eventually, after Rebecca's murder, he moved 470 00:28:23,685 --> 00:28:26,285 Speaker 2: to the Philippines to work on oil rigs. He married 471 00:28:26,285 --> 00:28:29,845 Speaker 2: a local woman and they had two children. Billy told 472 00:28:29,925 --> 00:28:33,605 Speaker 2: investigators that he sometimes earned twenty five thousand dollars a month, 473 00:28:33,645 --> 00:28:37,605 Speaker 2: which allowed him to live like a king overseas. They 474 00:28:37,645 --> 00:28:42,125 Speaker 2: bought a pineapple plantation. Jeremy Miller stayed closer to home 475 00:28:42,165 --> 00:28:45,205 Speaker 2: over the years. Even after he got married and Jeremy 476 00:28:45,205 --> 00:28:47,565 Speaker 2: and his wife had a son, he continued to live 477 00:28:47,605 --> 00:28:52,325 Speaker 2: with Linda. When they moved to Colorado, Linda moved with them. Eventually, 478 00:28:52,485 --> 00:28:55,205 Speaker 2: Jeremy got divorced, but his mother never really left him. 479 00:28:55,965 --> 00:28:59,805 Speaker 2: Jeremy and Linda moved to Oregon. Linda told police that 480 00:28:59,925 --> 00:29:03,005 Speaker 2: Jeremy has always lived with her and that that's the 481 00:29:03,005 --> 00:29:03,925 Speaker 2: way she likes it. 482 00:29:05,205 --> 00:29:05,485 Speaker 1: Billy. 483 00:29:05,485 --> 00:29:08,125 Speaker 2: Billy was planning to move back to America when his 484 00:29:08,165 --> 00:29:11,285 Speaker 2: wife and kids after COVID. He bought a home in 485 00:29:11,365 --> 00:29:15,605 Speaker 2: Cottage Grove, Oregon, so once again, Billy, Linda, and Jeremy 486 00:29:15,645 --> 00:29:23,525 Speaker 2: Miller would be one big, happy family. In twenty twenty, 487 00:29:23,605 --> 00:29:25,485 Speaker 2: Mike also reached out to Linda Miller. 488 00:29:25,685 --> 00:29:25,965 Speaker 8: Hello. 489 00:29:27,725 --> 00:29:30,245 Speaker 7: Hello, this is Linda Miller and I'm returning your car. 490 00:29:30,405 --> 00:29:31,885 Speaker 8: Hey, Linda, how are you doing? 491 00:29:33,565 --> 00:29:34,485 Speaker 7: Doing pretty good? 492 00:29:34,765 --> 00:29:36,645 Speaker 2: She told him that Billy was out of the country 493 00:29:36,685 --> 00:29:40,405 Speaker 2: and she wasn't sure when he'd be back. Listen to 494 00:29:40,485 --> 00:29:44,125 Speaker 2: how sincere and helpful Linda sounds when she's talking to Mike. 495 00:29:45,005 --> 00:29:48,085 Speaker 8: I just wanted to reach out to you guys and 496 00:29:48,165 --> 00:29:52,125 Speaker 8: see what of course I get. You know, Billy's in 497 00:29:52,165 --> 00:29:54,765 Speaker 8: the Philippines. I probably won't be able to talk to 498 00:29:54,845 --> 00:29:57,445 Speaker 8: him for I don't know if he's planning on coming 499 00:29:57,485 --> 00:30:00,485 Speaker 8: back anytime soon or do you know. 500 00:30:00,765 --> 00:30:01,285 Speaker 7: I don't know. 501 00:30:01,765 --> 00:30:03,005 Speaker 8: Oh, now you don't know. 502 00:30:03,685 --> 00:30:05,165 Speaker 7: Things have been crazy with. 503 00:30:05,205 --> 00:30:07,445 Speaker 8: The okay, right right? 504 00:30:08,245 --> 00:30:12,605 Speaker 2: But Linda Miller was lying, and she had no idea 505 00:30:12,805 --> 00:30:17,005 Speaker 2: that Mike McNeil was tracking her calls, because immediately after 506 00:30:17,045 --> 00:30:19,845 Speaker 2: she hung up with Mike, Linda called her son Billy, 507 00:30:20,485 --> 00:30:22,965 Speaker 2: and she sounded totally different to the person who was 508 00:30:23,045 --> 00:30:26,725 Speaker 2: chatting happily to Mike in this voicemail. In my opinion, 509 00:30:27,205 --> 00:30:29,205 Speaker 2: Linda sounds pretty cold and calculating. 510 00:30:30,765 --> 00:30:36,165 Speaker 7: Hey, Billy. I made that call to the Arkansas State Police, 511 00:30:37,005 --> 00:30:39,885 Speaker 7: and what he wants is to make an appointment to 512 00:30:40,045 --> 00:30:45,765 Speaker 7: see us all. And I told him that I'll have 513 00:30:45,845 --> 00:30:50,885 Speaker 7: to get with Jeremy and I never I said, you know, 514 00:30:50,965 --> 00:30:53,005 Speaker 7: he wanted to know the last time you came in. 515 00:30:53,245 --> 00:30:56,765 Speaker 7: I said, I don't recall that you usually come about 516 00:30:56,885 --> 00:30:59,925 Speaker 7: ten days for your physical and stuff and then you 517 00:31:00,005 --> 00:31:05,885 Speaker 7: go back. And I did not tell him that you 518 00:31:05,965 --> 00:31:09,405 Speaker 7: were in the US right now. But I think it 519 00:31:09,445 --> 00:31:12,725 Speaker 7: would be better if we all three saw him together. 520 00:31:13,365 --> 00:31:18,445 Speaker 7: He's willing to fly in and meet with us in person, 521 00:31:19,805 --> 00:31:23,965 Speaker 7: do his interview. Maybe that'll put a stop to this, 522 00:31:24,925 --> 00:31:25,845 Speaker 7: all right, Love be back. 523 00:31:30,405 --> 00:31:34,125 Speaker 2: Mike was building a profile on Billy Miller. He talked 524 00:31:34,165 --> 00:31:37,045 Speaker 2: to several people who knew him. Some of them told 525 00:31:37,085 --> 00:31:40,805 Speaker 2: disturbing stories about Billy Miller being a violent sexual predator 526 00:31:40,845 --> 00:31:44,125 Speaker 2: and about it being what they called an open secret 527 00:31:44,205 --> 00:31:44,845 Speaker 2: in his family. 528 00:31:48,965 --> 00:31:50,845 Speaker 4: Hello Mike. 529 00:31:51,445 --> 00:31:53,885 Speaker 2: A cousin of Billy's told Mike how back in the 530 00:31:53,925 --> 00:31:57,965 Speaker 2: early two thousands, Billy inappropriately touched a young woman who 531 00:31:58,005 --> 00:32:01,965 Speaker 2: was four years old at the time. This cousin described 532 00:32:01,965 --> 00:32:05,645 Speaker 2: Billy as a sexual deviant. He told another disturbing story 533 00:32:05,685 --> 00:32:08,405 Speaker 2: about hanging out in Corpus Christi, Texas with Billy back 534 00:32:08,445 --> 00:32:12,125 Speaker 2: in the day and Billy wanting to solicit sex workers. 535 00:32:12,805 --> 00:32:15,605 Speaker 2: This person said that Billy made a comment that he 536 00:32:15,725 --> 00:32:20,485 Speaker 2: never forgot. They said Billy told them that it would 537 00:32:20,525 --> 00:32:23,085 Speaker 2: be fun to kill a hooker and that no one 538 00:32:23,125 --> 00:32:26,525 Speaker 2: would ever know about it, which even back then, this 539 00:32:26,605 --> 00:32:29,525 Speaker 2: person said he knew was a huge red flag. And 540 00:32:29,565 --> 00:32:32,525 Speaker 2: shortly after that he said he cut off all contact 541 00:32:32,525 --> 00:32:32,925 Speaker 2: with Billy. 542 00:32:33,565 --> 00:32:37,085 Speaker 9: His family on his mother's side are not their art. 543 00:32:36,965 --> 00:32:37,925 Speaker 6: Can be being us evil. 544 00:32:40,645 --> 00:32:43,805 Speaker 2: Then Mike talked to another one of Billy's former victims, 545 00:32:44,725 --> 00:32:47,485 Speaker 2: and though this interview is part of the case file 546 00:32:47,765 --> 00:32:50,485 Speaker 2: and her name is in it, we're not going to 547 00:32:50,525 --> 00:32:53,885 Speaker 2: release her name publicly. I'm including this because I believe 548 00:32:53,965 --> 00:32:58,005 Speaker 2: her story is super important because a lot of people 549 00:32:58,485 --> 00:33:00,605 Speaker 2: commented on the fact that this young woman had had 550 00:33:00,645 --> 00:33:04,765 Speaker 2: problems in her life over the years, and after hearing 551 00:33:04,805 --> 00:33:09,325 Speaker 2: her story, it's clear that she is traumatized by what 552 00:33:09,365 --> 00:33:12,365 Speaker 2: she says Billy did to her. She got very emotional 553 00:33:12,445 --> 00:33:14,525 Speaker 2: during this interview. She said when she was young, she 554 00:33:14,605 --> 00:33:17,165 Speaker 2: was hanging out with Billy and some other friends. She 555 00:33:17,205 --> 00:33:20,485 Speaker 2: said he acted like he was being protective after a 556 00:33:20,565 --> 00:33:23,125 Speaker 2: night of drinking, making sure that she got into bed. Okay, 557 00:33:23,805 --> 00:33:27,245 Speaker 2: but she said he had far more sinister intentions. She 558 00:33:27,405 --> 00:33:30,645 Speaker 2: said that Billy raped her that night, but it. 559 00:33:30,645 --> 00:33:36,805 Speaker 9: Had gone out. I'm drinking and there was a friend 560 00:33:36,805 --> 00:33:38,765 Speaker 9: of his that was actually my age that went to 561 00:33:38,765 --> 00:33:41,285 Speaker 9: school with us, that went with us to Robbie Parker 562 00:33:42,205 --> 00:33:45,685 Speaker 9: and I went and lay down. He said I could 563 00:33:46,125 --> 00:33:48,045 Speaker 9: have his room because Robbie had the couch or whatever. 564 00:33:48,605 --> 00:33:52,725 Speaker 9: And and that's when you know, I was, I was, 565 00:33:54,285 --> 00:33:57,045 Speaker 9: I had too much for drink and I didn't feel 566 00:33:57,445 --> 00:34:03,125 Speaker 9: like I mean, I was sick. And yeah, he and 567 00:34:03,165 --> 00:34:04,205 Speaker 9: I kept push him away from me. 568 00:34:04,325 --> 00:34:05,005 Speaker 7: That's than I could. 569 00:34:06,165 --> 00:34:13,765 Speaker 9: But yeah, I just felt like I didn't. 570 00:34:13,485 --> 00:34:21,405 Speaker 7: Have a strength to So I'm so sorry to bring 571 00:34:21,485 --> 00:34:21,925 Speaker 7: this up. 572 00:34:22,085 --> 00:34:26,925 Speaker 8: And I know it's it's an awful it's an awful 573 00:34:26,925 --> 00:34:27,805 Speaker 8: thing to think about. 574 00:34:28,605 --> 00:34:32,005 Speaker 3: And would you consider what Billy did to you, that 575 00:34:32,165 --> 00:34:32,805 Speaker 3: he raped you? 576 00:34:35,925 --> 00:34:37,085 Speaker 9: Yeah, there was a. 577 00:34:39,965 --> 00:34:45,085 Speaker 2: Yeah, And this victim said when she heard about the 578 00:34:45,125 --> 00:34:49,045 Speaker 2: allegations against Billy in Rebecca's case, she thought that Rebecca's 579 00:34:49,085 --> 00:34:59,885 Speaker 2: murder must have been a date rape gone wrong. Finally, 580 00:35:00,245 --> 00:35:02,725 Speaker 2: Mike was able to sit down with Billy Miller in Oregon. 581 00:35:04,165 --> 00:35:06,805 Speaker 2: He asked him about these dark events from his past. 582 00:35:07,805 --> 00:35:10,645 Speaker 2: Billy said that the allegations weren't true. He said the 583 00:35:10,645 --> 00:35:12,925 Speaker 2: woman who accused him of molesting her four year old 584 00:35:12,965 --> 00:35:16,085 Speaker 2: daughter was just a psycho x and he said the 585 00:35:16,125 --> 00:35:20,885 Speaker 2: little girl's story kept changing. He also denied assaulting anyone else. 586 00:35:21,685 --> 00:35:24,805 Speaker 2: Then Mike circled back to Rebecca's case and once again 587 00:35:24,965 --> 00:35:29,525 Speaker 2: took us back to that crucial weekend. Billy downplayed any 588 00:35:29,525 --> 00:35:32,045 Speaker 2: connection to Rebecca. He said he didn't know her at all, 589 00:35:32,405 --> 00:35:34,605 Speaker 2: that he didn't even know what she looked like until 590 00:35:34,605 --> 00:35:36,965 Speaker 2: he saw some information related to our podcast. 591 00:35:38,285 --> 00:35:42,285 Speaker 5: After seeing the podcast and that stuff. You know, look, 592 00:35:42,325 --> 00:35:45,045 Speaker 5: I could belond here, okay on Blue Eyed Girl in 593 00:35:45,525 --> 00:35:50,765 Speaker 5: all the podcasts and the pictures you know I've seen. 594 00:35:51,525 --> 00:35:54,365 Speaker 1: Mike asked Billy about Casey's version of events. 595 00:35:55,125 --> 00:36:01,085 Speaker 5: So in Casey's interview, he said that Rebecca looked out 596 00:36:01,085 --> 00:36:04,645 Speaker 5: the window and saw a car in the driveway on 597 00:36:04,765 --> 00:36:08,165 Speaker 5: the road, and then Casey looked out and saw that 598 00:36:08,245 --> 00:36:10,005 Speaker 5: it was you, and then he went out there and 599 00:36:10,045 --> 00:36:13,045 Speaker 5: you guys talked for about fifteen minutes. So his mom 600 00:36:13,165 --> 00:36:16,285 Speaker 5: was with us and all that stuff. No, not at 601 00:36:16,285 --> 00:36:21,725 Speaker 5: this time. This was He said that whenever you got out, 602 00:36:21,765 --> 00:36:24,245 Speaker 5: you said that you weren't going to stop because you 603 00:36:24,285 --> 00:36:28,525 Speaker 5: didn't see Casey's truck, but you saw Rebecca there, so 604 00:36:29,565 --> 00:36:33,085 Speaker 5: you know that's Casey had already given his truck to 605 00:36:33,205 --> 00:36:37,045 Speaker 5: Claud in town and you were just you know, it 606 00:36:37,165 --> 00:36:41,365 Speaker 5: was dark whenever this happened, whenever you stopped buying, you 607 00:36:41,405 --> 00:36:42,805 Speaker 5: and Casey were talking. 608 00:36:42,565 --> 00:36:43,365 Speaker 6: In the driveway. 609 00:36:44,525 --> 00:36:47,125 Speaker 2: So Mike is calling out the fact here that it 610 00:36:47,165 --> 00:36:50,565 Speaker 2: was dark outside. So looking from inside a trailer out 611 00:36:50,605 --> 00:36:53,965 Speaker 2: into the darkness, how would you recognize someone you hadn't 612 00:36:54,005 --> 00:36:57,005 Speaker 2: seen in years. And we're not talking about a big 613 00:36:57,045 --> 00:36:58,165 Speaker 2: city where there are street lights. 614 00:36:58,165 --> 00:36:58,325 Speaker 5: Here. 615 00:36:58,365 --> 00:37:01,005 Speaker 2: It is pitch black out there in the wilderness. When 616 00:37:01,005 --> 00:37:03,525 Speaker 2: the lights are out, you can't even see your hands 617 00:37:03,565 --> 00:37:07,245 Speaker 2: in front of your face. Mike believed Billy had seen 618 00:37:07,325 --> 00:37:11,485 Speaker 2: Rebecca and Casey together earlier that day. We know that 619 00:37:11,765 --> 00:37:16,085 Speaker 2: on Saturday, Rebecca and Casey went together out to Wolf Farm, 620 00:37:16,205 --> 00:37:19,645 Speaker 2: where Billy and his family were staying. They dropped off 621 00:37:19,725 --> 00:37:22,365 Speaker 2: Casey's truck so that his father Claude could use it. 622 00:37:23,605 --> 00:37:26,725 Speaker 2: Rebecca followed Casey to Woolf Farm. She was his ride home. 623 00:37:27,005 --> 00:37:30,645 Speaker 2: So Mike believed that when Casey and Rebecca were at 624 00:37:30,685 --> 00:37:34,085 Speaker 2: the house together, that Billy saw Rebecca there and that 625 00:37:34,245 --> 00:37:36,685 Speaker 2: maybe that's when he decided to drive back to the 626 00:37:36,725 --> 00:37:40,485 Speaker 2: house and look for her. Mike asked Billy to take 627 00:37:40,525 --> 00:37:42,805 Speaker 2: a light detector test and to give a DNA sample. 628 00:37:43,525 --> 00:37:47,045 Speaker 2: When Mike asked Billy if Billy's DNA would be in 629 00:37:47,045 --> 00:37:49,165 Speaker 2: the house if there was any reason for that, Billy's 630 00:37:49,205 --> 00:37:51,605 Speaker 2: answer is interesting. 631 00:37:52,005 --> 00:37:56,725 Speaker 5: Would you be willing to provide your DNA? It would 632 00:37:56,765 --> 00:37:58,925 Speaker 5: be a cheek swab. I don't want to take blood 633 00:37:59,085 --> 00:38:00,925 Speaker 5: or flit away hands as if I've been in the 634 00:38:01,005 --> 00:38:02,965 Speaker 5: house and all that stuff, my DNA would be in 635 00:38:03,045 --> 00:38:08,645 Speaker 5: the well and point and that is on record. 636 00:38:08,485 --> 00:38:10,245 Speaker 1: And we know that now. 637 00:38:10,285 --> 00:38:13,885 Speaker 2: Remember both Billy and Casey claimed that on Sunday night, 638 00:38:13,965 --> 00:38:16,685 Speaker 2: when Billy said he stopped by the house, he never 639 00:38:16,765 --> 00:38:21,165 Speaker 2: went in. He only stayed on the porch. Something else 640 00:38:21,205 --> 00:38:22,765 Speaker 2: came out of the case file, and that was the 641 00:38:22,845 --> 00:38:26,325 Speaker 2: contact between Casey McCullough and Billy Miller because they were 642 00:38:26,365 --> 00:38:28,885 Speaker 2: out of contact for a long time. But after the 643 00:38:28,925 --> 00:38:33,325 Speaker 2: podcast came out, Billy started texting Casey. He interacted with 644 00:38:33,405 --> 00:38:35,485 Speaker 2: Jennifer and he called me at the cabin where I 645 00:38:35,525 --> 00:38:38,245 Speaker 2: was staying he was trying to insert himself into the 646 00:38:38,245 --> 00:38:42,245 Speaker 2: investigation and basically to mislead people. Some of those text 647 00:38:42,245 --> 00:38:44,405 Speaker 2: messages that he sent Casey are now part of the 648 00:38:44,405 --> 00:38:48,125 Speaker 2: case file. He wrote, I want to make the Catherine 649 00:38:48,205 --> 00:38:51,685 Speaker 2: lady look like shit. He actually called me a dumb 650 00:38:51,685 --> 00:38:55,485 Speaker 2: shit several times, which actually doesn't bother me. In fact, 651 00:38:55,725 --> 00:38:58,085 Speaker 2: knowing what happened, I weirdly take that as some kind 652 00:38:58,085 --> 00:39:02,605 Speaker 2: of a compliment. Eventually, we all know Billy confessed to 653 00:39:02,605 --> 00:39:06,205 Speaker 2: Rebecca's murder, but as we've said before, their aspects of 654 00:39:06,245 --> 00:39:11,005 Speaker 2: his confession that just don't seem to make sense. Something 655 00:39:11,045 --> 00:39:13,365 Speaker 2: else that jumped out to me while I was reading 656 00:39:13,365 --> 00:39:16,285 Speaker 2: through the case file was that on the morning of Monday, 657 00:39:16,325 --> 00:39:19,965 Speaker 2: September twentieth, Billy was up early. He said he drove 658 00:39:20,005 --> 00:39:22,645 Speaker 2: to the area behind Casey's trailer to hunt deer, saw 659 00:39:22,725 --> 00:39:26,765 Speaker 2: Rebecca's car in the driveway and didn't see Casey's truck. Now, 660 00:39:26,885 --> 00:39:29,765 Speaker 2: Billy said this led him to conclude that Casey wasn't home, 661 00:39:29,805 --> 00:39:32,485 Speaker 2: and that's when he knocked on the door, told Rebecca 662 00:39:32,565 --> 00:39:34,845 Speaker 2: he had to use the phone, and made up that 663 00:39:34,885 --> 00:39:38,805 Speaker 2: pretext for going inside the house. But if Billy stopped 664 00:39:38,805 --> 00:39:43,485 Speaker 2: by on Sunday night and talked to Casey. Well, remember 665 00:39:43,565 --> 00:39:46,285 Speaker 2: Casey had already dropped off his truck with his dad, 666 00:39:46,405 --> 00:39:52,525 Speaker 2: so Casey's truck wasn't there then either. So what I'm 667 00:39:52,565 --> 00:39:55,485 Speaker 2: getting at is that Casey's truck not being parked at 668 00:39:55,485 --> 00:40:00,085 Speaker 2: that trailer did not mean that Casey wasn't home, and 669 00:40:00,165 --> 00:40:03,805 Speaker 2: Billy knew that. So why would Billy assume that Rebecca 670 00:40:03,925 --> 00:40:10,725 Speaker 2: was alone on Monday morning? Billy claimed that after Rebecca 671 00:40:10,845 --> 00:40:12,365 Speaker 2: led him in the house, she went back to the 672 00:40:12,405 --> 00:40:15,525 Speaker 2: bedroom to lie down. Then he felt a rage building. 673 00:40:16,925 --> 00:40:19,325 Speaker 2: While he was pacing, he saw that there was a 674 00:40:19,325 --> 00:40:22,725 Speaker 2: piano leg loose. He grabbed it, went into the bedroom 675 00:40:22,965 --> 00:40:26,085 Speaker 2: and hit her with it. Then, he said, he wrapped 676 00:40:26,085 --> 00:40:29,565 Speaker 2: her body in a blanket, did a quick cleanup, presumably 677 00:40:29,725 --> 00:40:32,525 Speaker 2: with the cleaning products that had conveniently been dropped there 678 00:40:32,645 --> 00:40:35,485 Speaker 2: by his mother, put the body in the bed of 679 00:40:35,485 --> 00:40:38,885 Speaker 2: his truck, and then dumped her remains off Highway nine, 680 00:40:39,645 --> 00:40:43,565 Speaker 2: where they were found a week later. Now, I will 681 00:40:43,645 --> 00:40:47,125 Speaker 2: say there are definitely things that Billy has given police 682 00:40:47,165 --> 00:40:49,405 Speaker 2: that indicate he was involved in this murder. We know 683 00:40:50,085 --> 00:40:53,805 Speaker 2: that he was the one who led investigators to the suitcase. 684 00:40:54,405 --> 00:40:57,525 Speaker 2: The black suitcase that had been missing since two thousand 685 00:40:57,525 --> 00:41:02,525 Speaker 2: and four. Investigators found it. It was full of bloody bedding. 686 00:41:03,165 --> 00:41:05,765 Speaker 2: So that suitcase was a smoking gun and it was 687 00:41:05,805 --> 00:41:09,245 Speaker 2: the nail in Billy Miller's coffin. But if Billy did 688 00:41:09,365 --> 00:41:12,045 Speaker 2: kill Rebecca, and if he acted alone, why has his 689 00:41:12,165 --> 00:41:16,805 Speaker 2: story changed so many times? First he said he strangled Rebecca. Later, 690 00:41:16,925 --> 00:41:19,085 Speaker 2: after he found out that our hyoid bone was not 691 00:41:19,205 --> 00:41:21,565 Speaker 2: broken and that there was no evidence of a fracture, 692 00:41:22,485 --> 00:41:23,845 Speaker 2: he never mentioned strangulation. 693 00:41:23,925 --> 00:41:24,245 Speaker 1: Again. 694 00:41:25,165 --> 00:41:28,285 Speaker 2: Many of the things that Billy mentioned investigators about the 695 00:41:28,325 --> 00:41:31,525 Speaker 2: actual killing seemed to have been pulled straight off of 696 00:41:31,525 --> 00:41:35,805 Speaker 2: social media, off of Facebook groups or things he's heard 697 00:41:35,845 --> 00:41:38,565 Speaker 2: in a podcast are read in the papers, and it's 698 00:41:38,685 --> 00:41:41,405 Speaker 2: clear that he's been following social media. You can see 699 00:41:41,405 --> 00:41:43,645 Speaker 2: that in the case file, in the chats he had. 700 00:41:44,125 --> 00:41:47,805 Speaker 2: He joined the Unsolved Murder of Rebecca Guld group. Throughout 701 00:41:47,845 --> 00:41:51,485 Speaker 2: this entire investigation, Billy was trying to get information from people. 702 00:41:52,285 --> 00:41:53,845 Speaker 2: He admitted this to investigators. 703 00:41:55,205 --> 00:41:58,605 Speaker 5: So if you're asking about you know, yeah, I followed 704 00:41:58,645 --> 00:42:06,605 Speaker 5: the podcast following every day. Then I had there and 705 00:42:07,085 --> 00:42:10,485 Speaker 5: told my cousins Randy. I reached out to my cousin 706 00:42:10,525 --> 00:42:12,725 Speaker 5: Randy and said, hey, if you need money for a lawyer, 707 00:42:13,365 --> 00:42:15,805 Speaker 5: you know, I'll hit me up. And that was my 708 00:42:15,925 --> 00:42:20,885 Speaker 5: way in and to keep an eye on what was 709 00:42:20,925 --> 00:42:25,765 Speaker 5: going on though, okay, and then saying, hey, keep an 710 00:42:25,765 --> 00:42:30,325 Speaker 5: eye on the slander and all that stuff on the podcast. 711 00:42:30,365 --> 00:42:34,005 Speaker 5: So I would send him a home of just about 712 00:42:34,405 --> 00:42:34,805 Speaker 5: you know that. 713 00:42:39,085 --> 00:42:43,005 Speaker 2: And after he confessed to Rebecca's murder, Billy kept lying. 714 00:42:43,925 --> 00:42:46,525 Speaker 2: He said that he had murdered several other women, all 715 00:42:46,605 --> 00:42:50,045 Speaker 2: sex workers, all the same size and physical type as Rebecca. 716 00:42:50,565 --> 00:42:52,885 Speaker 2: He said he strangled them and then dumped their bodies. 717 00:42:53,605 --> 00:42:56,805 Speaker 2: Mike asked him, would you consider yourself a serial killer? 718 00:42:57,485 --> 00:43:00,645 Speaker 2: Billy said that he was a sick individual. Then he 719 00:43:00,725 --> 00:43:06,245 Speaker 2: referred to a demon he said he had living inside him. 720 00:43:10,325 --> 00:43:13,125 Speaker 2: I was hoping the case file would provide some clarity, 721 00:43:13,165 --> 00:43:16,085 Speaker 2: and in a way it really has. It showed me 722 00:43:16,165 --> 00:43:19,845 Speaker 2: the utter incompetence of Dennis Simon's investigation and how this 723 00:43:20,005 --> 00:43:24,085 Speaker 2: case stalled for years, and in my opinion, due to 724 00:43:24,205 --> 00:43:27,245 Speaker 2: the laser focus on Chris Cantrell and JB. 725 00:43:27,445 --> 00:43:28,245 Speaker 1: Yates. 726 00:43:29,845 --> 00:43:33,085 Speaker 2: Mike McNeil did a great job in his investigation. He 727 00:43:33,125 --> 00:43:35,885 Speaker 2: was able to secure a confession through what was in 728 00:43:35,885 --> 00:43:39,285 Speaker 2: my opinion, a masterful interview technique, and he did everything 729 00:43:39,365 --> 00:43:42,645 Speaker 2: by the book. Billy Miller has been caught in so 730 00:43:42,805 --> 00:43:46,765 Speaker 2: many lives so far, and we hear him literally laughing 731 00:43:46,805 --> 00:43:50,005 Speaker 2: about it. So even though I hope he does come clean, 732 00:43:50,645 --> 00:43:52,845 Speaker 2: to be honest, I don't have high hopes that he will. 733 00:43:53,605 --> 00:43:56,205 Speaker 2: And in less and until he comes forward with information 734 00:43:56,285 --> 00:43:58,205 Speaker 2: that could be helpful to the case and that can 735 00:43:58,245 --> 00:44:01,165 Speaker 2: be verified, I'm not going to give him any more publicity. 736 00:44:03,285 --> 00:44:06,525 Speaker 2: So once again we come back to the question what 737 00:44:06,685 --> 00:44:11,045 Speaker 2: really happened to Rebecca. Jennifer and others have made it 738 00:44:11,045 --> 00:44:13,685 Speaker 2: clear they think she could have been killed on Sunday night, 739 00:44:13,805 --> 00:44:17,285 Speaker 2: and I think that that is a possibility, but I 740 00:44:17,325 --> 00:44:19,685 Speaker 2: think it's more likely that Rebecca did wake up on 741 00:44:19,725 --> 00:44:22,365 Speaker 2: Monday morning, get out of bed, put her fuzzy pink 742 00:44:22,405 --> 00:44:26,445 Speaker 2: slippers on, and, as Danielle, her sister, always believed, take 743 00:44:26,525 --> 00:44:29,085 Speaker 2: Casey to work while she was still kind of half asleep. 744 00:44:29,925 --> 00:44:32,165 Speaker 2: Then that she stopped by the Possum Trot and bought 745 00:44:32,165 --> 00:44:36,605 Speaker 2: that breakfast sandwich and coffee. She went back home, probably 746 00:44:36,725 --> 00:44:38,645 Speaker 2: dead bowl to the door the way she usually did 747 00:44:38,685 --> 00:44:40,845 Speaker 2: when she was planning to take a nap, put her 748 00:44:40,845 --> 00:44:44,365 Speaker 2: breakfast aside while she watched Regis and Kelly, and then 749 00:44:44,525 --> 00:44:46,645 Speaker 2: planned to take a nap before she went back to school. 750 00:44:47,645 --> 00:44:49,925 Speaker 2: I believe that someone knocked on the door and that 751 00:44:49,965 --> 00:44:53,405 Speaker 2: Rebecca went to answer it, and I believe that Billy 752 00:44:53,485 --> 00:44:56,405 Speaker 2: Miller was there that morning. I just don't think the 753 00:44:56,485 --> 00:44:59,365 Speaker 2: evidence supports the murder happening the way he said it did. 754 00:45:00,245 --> 00:45:02,805 Speaker 2: I think there could have been someone else there, or 755 00:45:02,885 --> 00:45:06,965 Speaker 2: maybe more than one person. I believe my witness who 756 00:45:07,045 --> 00:45:10,085 Speaker 2: said Casey confessed to him. He has no reason to 757 00:45:10,165 --> 00:45:12,885 Speaker 2: lie and has actually lost a lot as a result 758 00:45:12,885 --> 00:45:16,365 Speaker 2: of this case. I believe the facts indicate that at 759 00:45:16,445 --> 00:45:21,445 Speaker 2: a minimum, Casey knew more than he let on. Dennis 760 00:45:21,445 --> 00:45:24,605 Speaker 2: Simons and others have always insisted that when this case 761 00:45:24,645 --> 00:45:27,325 Speaker 2: file came out, we would all see that Casey had 762 00:45:27,365 --> 00:45:30,125 Speaker 2: an airtight alibi. But honestly, the release of the file 763 00:45:30,285 --> 00:45:33,525 Speaker 2: just confirmed what we began to discover back in twenty eighteen. 764 00:45:34,445 --> 00:45:37,565 Speaker 2: Not only was Casey's alibi not airtight, but there were 765 00:45:37,685 --> 00:45:40,885 Speaker 2: multiple holes in it, not only on Sunday, but also 766 00:45:41,045 --> 00:45:45,165 Speaker 2: on Monday morning. If anything, the interview with Bruce Shipman, 767 00:45:45,245 --> 00:45:47,405 Speaker 2: the manager of Sonic at the time, who was on 768 00:45:47,525 --> 00:45:49,405 Speaker 2: duty on Tuesday, and who was a very good friend 769 00:45:49,405 --> 00:45:50,085 Speaker 2: of Casey's. 770 00:45:50,685 --> 00:45:52,285 Speaker 1: Proves this because Bruce. 771 00:45:51,965 --> 00:45:55,045 Speaker 2: Said that time cards could be altered, and now we 772 00:45:55,125 --> 00:45:57,925 Speaker 2: know Casey went home not just once, but twice that morning. 773 00:46:02,645 --> 00:46:06,525 Speaker 2: Everyone has a dark side, and in this case, one 774 00:46:06,525 --> 00:46:09,165 Speaker 2: of the things that I learned was that sometimes the 775 00:46:09,245 --> 00:46:13,205 Speaker 2: scariest people are not serial killers. They're the people living 776 00:46:13,245 --> 00:46:17,005 Speaker 2: in our communities, people we trust, people who in other 777 00:46:17,085 --> 00:46:22,205 Speaker 2: settings might be amazing partners or bothers or friends, but 778 00:46:22,285 --> 00:46:25,565 Speaker 2: who have the capacity to turn on a young woman 779 00:46:25,605 --> 00:46:28,325 Speaker 2: who was just starting out in life and beat her 780 00:46:28,365 --> 00:46:32,725 Speaker 2: to death. I would encourage everyone out there to use 781 00:46:32,845 --> 00:46:37,365 Speaker 2: the Freedom of Information Act make a Foyer request look 782 00:46:37,405 --> 00:46:41,405 Speaker 2: at this case file. I am so proud of the 783 00:46:41,445 --> 00:46:44,525 Speaker 2: work that we and that every single person listening to 784 00:46:44,565 --> 00:46:48,405 Speaker 2: this has done. I stand by our work one thousand percent, 785 00:46:49,005 --> 00:46:51,405 Speaker 2: and again I'm going to let the facts speak for themselves. 786 00:47:00,445 --> 00:47:03,645 Speaker 2: I said way back when I started this that murder 787 00:47:03,645 --> 00:47:07,325 Speaker 2: investigations are the closest we get to time travel, And 788 00:47:07,405 --> 00:47:10,885 Speaker 2: years later, I can confirm once again that this is true, 789 00:47:10,925 --> 00:47:14,525 Speaker 2: because we have come full circle. We end where we 790 00:47:14,605 --> 00:47:17,565 Speaker 2: started back on that fateful day in twenty eighteen when 791 00:47:17,565 --> 00:47:21,005 Speaker 2: I did a local radio program in Batesville. I remember 792 00:47:21,085 --> 00:47:23,605 Speaker 2: sitting in that studio with Gary Bee, who I love, 793 00:47:23,685 --> 00:47:26,485 Speaker 2: by the way, and I want to think again. Back then, 794 00:47:27,125 --> 00:47:30,445 Speaker 2: I wasn't sure that anyone was listening, but they did 795 00:47:30,525 --> 00:47:34,525 Speaker 2: and together we started a movement. So once again I'm 796 00:47:34,605 --> 00:47:38,485 Speaker 2: ending this podcast on a call to action. Police have 797 00:47:38,685 --> 00:47:41,325 Speaker 2: said if any new evidence comes to light, they will 798 00:47:41,365 --> 00:47:43,885 Speaker 2: look at it and take it seriously. And this time 799 00:47:43,925 --> 00:47:47,565 Speaker 2: I believe them because we have a competent investigator on 800 00:47:47,605 --> 00:47:52,205 Speaker 2: the case. Hell and Gone accomplished its goal. The investigator, 801 00:47:52,205 --> 00:47:54,485 Speaker 2: who in my opinion, was ignoring evidence is out of 802 00:47:54,525 --> 00:47:58,045 Speaker 2: there and a competent investigator is in charge. So if 803 00:47:58,085 --> 00:48:01,645 Speaker 2: you have any information that police should know, please call 804 00:48:01,685 --> 00:48:05,125 Speaker 2: Mike McNeil at the Arkansas State Police. And if you 805 00:48:05,165 --> 00:48:07,445 Speaker 2: have any information you want to share with me or 806 00:48:07,485 --> 00:48:09,725 Speaker 2: my team, you can reach out to us at our 807 00:48:09,765 --> 00:48:13,365 Speaker 2: Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight seven four four, 808 00:48:13,845 --> 00:48:18,725 Speaker 2: six one four or five. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is 809 00:48:18,805 --> 00:48:24,765 Speaker 2: Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone is a production of 810 00:48:24,805 --> 00:48:28,245 Speaker 2: School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated 811 00:48:28,285 --> 00:48:32,365 Speaker 2: by me Catherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts Music 812 00:48:32,445 --> 00:48:36,325 Speaker 2: is by Ben so Lee. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, 813 00:48:36,565 --> 00:48:40,685 Speaker 2: Brandon Barr, and else Crowley. If you have a case 814 00:48:40,725 --> 00:48:43,285 Speaker 2: you'd like me and my team to look into, you 815 00:48:43,325 --> 00:48:45,605 Speaker 2: can reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder 816 00:48:45,645 --> 00:48:49,165 Speaker 2: Line at six seven eight seven four four six one 817 00:48:49,325 --> 00:48:53,445 Speaker 2: four five. That's six seven eight seven four four, six, 818 00:48:53,645 --> 00:49:00,685 Speaker 2: one four or five. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. 819 00:49:02,725 --> 00:49:04,565 Speaker 1: School of Humans