WEBVTT - Colonialism Part 2 Ft Andrew

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome toake it happened here. I am Andrew of Theature

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<v Speaker 1>channel of Andrewism. Last time I spoke about clonalism's effect

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<v Speaker 1>on the psyche of the people within it, and today

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<v Speaker 1>I want to talk about how people under the thumb

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<v Speaker 1>of clonalism go about deliberation and how that struggle fits

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<v Speaker 1>within some version of anomic asnalysis. National liberation is a

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<v Speaker 1>struggle against the relationship of exploitation and domination inflicted upon

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<v Speaker 1>a nation. It's a struggle against the domination of one

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<v Speaker 1>people by another, often centered on questions of language, culture, welfare, equality,

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<v Speaker 1>and land. It has consequences, and it's not something where

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<v Speaker 1>you can just stand by mutually and ignore. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>ignoring national liberation struggles would been sided with national oppression.

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<v Speaker 1>There's no centrist tiqu Yeah, there's no both sides to

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<v Speaker 1>the oppression of a people by another. Of course, that

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean that national liberation struggles are free of critique

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<v Speaker 1>or necessarily morally righteous. National liberation struggles are usually quite diverse.

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<v Speaker 1>Within them, there are many tendencies at play, from the

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<v Speaker 1>most reactionary to the most revolutionary. I don't have any

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<v Speaker 1>immediately come to mind forumia.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, God, Yeah, there's.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, you know, I think I always think about right,

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<v Speaker 3>it's like.

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<v Speaker 2>China's a well, it kind of unique. I mean, there's

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<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of countries that where you get multiple

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<v Speaker 2>like national liberation movements. China is kind of unique in

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<v Speaker 2>that we had two nominally left wing national liberation movements

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<v Speaker 2>and like one of them, one of them is the KMT,

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<v Speaker 2>who like the the the the the end of their

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<v Speaker 2>gnatlib arc is like training a bunch of desk squads

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<v Speaker 2>in El Salvador because they've gotten so good at killing

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<v Speaker 2>peasants that like, you know, this is what they're doing

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<v Speaker 2>with their life. And the other one to CCP and

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<v Speaker 2>it's like, well, okay, like great, great job, guys like liberated.

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<v Speaker 2>We've liberated a lot of people. We've like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it's it's I think I think there's

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<v Speaker 2>sort of two ways of looking at that, where it's

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<v Speaker 2>like you have on the one hand, you can look

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<v Speaker 2>at it from the sort of like worker's perspective, where

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<v Speaker 2>it's like, well, yeah, okay, so both you have your

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<v Speaker 2>two national liberation movements and both of them end up

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<v Speaker 2>machine gunning about a million workers. Depending on like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>in offset from each other in about forty years. But

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you have the Shaghai massacre and you have

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<v Speaker 2>the Culture Revolution. And then I think the other thing

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<v Speaker 2>that's important when you're looking at like a gnatlib movement

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<v Speaker 2>is like whose nation is being liberated? And this is

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<v Speaker 2>something you get with like Indonesia, Right, you have the

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<v Speaker 2>national liberation movement, but then you simultaneously have like the

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<v Speaker 2>occupation of West Papua.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's almost like a Russia nest egg of of

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<v Speaker 1>national oppression, like the like Anesia is being oppressed by

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<v Speaker 1>the Dutch and then Indonesia and supppression if you for

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<v Speaker 1>the West Papua and East Timor and all those different places.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and you see this a lot with like you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>This is why, like I think I keep coming back

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<v Speaker 2>to like whose nation is being liberated the thing because

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<v Speaker 2>it's like, you know, you get this with a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of like the sort of pan Air movements, and it's like, well, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>we're doing like resistance to sort of like French or

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<v Speaker 2>British colonialism. And then like, yes, this is this is

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<v Speaker 2>okay if you are Arab, like God help you, if

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<v Speaker 2>you're a curred or like CD or like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>so there's there's always these sort of I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to be careful about who wins the national liberation.

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<v Speaker 4>Movement exactly exactly, because.

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<v Speaker 1>No matter where a national liberations struggle is happening, they

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<v Speaker 1>are most likely minorities.

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<v Speaker 4>That are not.

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<v Speaker 1>Encapsulated in that, you know, they are always going to

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<v Speaker 1>be populations of people who are not of that nation

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<v Speaker 1>within the territory of the national liberation struggle, and then

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<v Speaker 1>beyond that, they're also within national liberation struggles other ongoing struggles,

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<v Speaker 1>including class struggle. While the oppressed classes might claim to

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<v Speaker 1>national liberation struggle in an effort to defend against foreign

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<v Speaker 1>subjugation exploitation, the capitalist class is using that struggle for

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<v Speaker 1>national liberation to consolidate their own power and monopolize their

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<v Speaker 1>own exportation the working class. A lot of capitalists, their

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<v Speaker 1>whole investment in national liberation boils down to I don't

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<v Speaker 1>like the fact that I have to compete with foreign capitalists.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to compete with local capitalists so I can

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<v Speaker 1>come out on top. And yeah, that's not cool. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>And then I think another thing that gets conflated when

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<v Speaker 1>you start talking about national liberation. The liberation of a

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<v Speaker 1>nation is the concept of nationalism, right. Nationalism is a

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<v Speaker 1>program that has been proposed, or rather a suite of

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<v Speaker 1>programs that I've been proposed as a solution to national

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<v Speaker 1>libation struggles, because I can't even say that nationalism is

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<v Speaker 1>a single program. Nationalism itself is quite diverse, as we'll

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<v Speaker 1>soon see. But nationalism is only one response, one possible response.

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<v Speaker 1>It may be the most common response, but it's only

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<v Speaker 1>one possible response to the national liberation struggle. And then

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<v Speaker 1>it's also the terminology that gets modeled when you start

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<v Speaker 1>talking about nationalism, right, Because, as I defined, national liberation

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<v Speaker 1>is the struggle of exploited people against a dominating group

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<v Speaker 1>or against their domination, just generally necessarily against one specific group,

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<v Speaker 1>could be multiple groups, but it's the struggle of a

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<v Speaker 1>people against their domination. However, when you get into nationalism,

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<v Speaker 1>there are forms of nationalism developed by oppressive groups, developed

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<v Speaker 1>by the oppressors. Sometimes they developed a nationalism in order

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<v Speaker 1>to more effectively oppress the people they oppress it and so,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, you could even argue that there are

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<v Speaker 1>cases where oppressed nations adopt nationalism as strategy for their

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<v Speaker 1>liberation and end up pursuing a form of nationalism that

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<v Speaker 1>is quite similar to that which they were being oppressed under.

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<v Speaker 1>There's one immediate example that comes to mind, if you

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<v Speaker 1>know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 3>I have like nine so I'm not entirely what you're

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<v Speaker 3>pointing at.

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<v Speaker 4>Nine. Okay, Okay, what do you think en of?

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, well, I wanted to talk about this.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's like a very there's like a kind

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<v Speaker 2>of Chinese nationalism that does this a lot, But this

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<v Speaker 2>is I think a kind of common thing of like

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<v Speaker 2>they're one of the sort of responses to colonization that's

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<v Speaker 2>pretty common. Is this really really this sort of like

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<v Speaker 2>like quintupling down on patriarchy where you know, you like,

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<v Speaker 2>because one of the effects of colonization obviously is like

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<v Speaker 2>the sort of like one of the sort of psychological

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<v Speaker 2>things is is this sort of like you know, is

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<v Speaker 2>this installation of of inferiority into the minds of the people

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<v Speaker 2>who being colonized. And so one of the ways people

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<v Speaker 2>respond to this is by being like, no, like the

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<v Speaker 2>colonizers are wrong, Like our men are actually really strong,

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<v Speaker 2>and like our men are actually incredibly manly, and like

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<v Speaker 2>we have really really like tight powerful controller of women,

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<v Speaker 2>and you see this fucking everywhere, right, This is why

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<v Speaker 2>all of like there's so many sort of like Chinese

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<v Speaker 2>nationalists who are so obsessed with like these videos of

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<v Speaker 2>like the like basically indistinguishable from American right wing videos

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<v Speaker 2>where they're just like walking around with no shirts on

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<v Speaker 2>and being like, look at how strong I am. It's

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<v Speaker 2>like you see you see this thing with like HN

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<v Speaker 2>do for people too, where's like they do like exactly

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<v Speaker 2>the same ship. Like it's all over the fucking place.

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<v Speaker 2>You can see you can see the Taliban doing this

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<v Speaker 2>now too, and it's like it's it's like it's you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's they very cool.

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<v Speaker 1>They're seeing colonization as emasculating.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, and and and that's you know, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think there's there's there's this mode of like reactionary anti

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<v Speaker 2>colonialism where it's like they see it as emasculating and

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<v Speaker 2>they see the problem with colonization was it stopped them

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<v Speaker 2>from being an empire. And you see you see this

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<v Speaker 2>a lot with Chinese nationalism where it's like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like they're they're they're their effective problem with like the

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<v Speaker 2>century humiliation was that they didn't get to keep being

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<v Speaker 2>the ching Empire and get to keep colonizing other people.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's like a very I don't know, I think

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<v Speaker 2>that that's a very common sort of like thing that

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<v Speaker 2>happens when this is a very common sort of like

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<v Speaker 2>ideological basis for sort of the right wing of anti

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<v Speaker 2>colonial well, I don't know, even calling the manticolonial movement

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<v Speaker 2>it's kind of like being a bit generous, but yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's a very common form of sort of

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<v Speaker 2>right wing nationalism that.

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<v Speaker 3>Emerges as a reaction to colonization.

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<v Speaker 1>What immediately came to mind to me, and what I

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<v Speaker 1>was thinking of was Zionism. Yeah, that too, not to

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<v Speaker 1>be fair, it was oh, rather correct me if I'm wrong.

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<v Speaker 4>It was a movement that existed prior to World War Two.

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<v Speaker 3>No, yeah, yeah, right.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you know, the experiences of World War two

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<v Speaker 1>took place, and there were different paths for the movement

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<v Speaker 1>could have taken. And I don't want to invalidate the

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<v Speaker 1>beginnings of the movement considering the experiences of Jewish people

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<v Speaker 1>for centuries in Europe and the oppression and the programs

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<v Speaker 1>and so they faced. But what we've seen the fruit

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<v Speaker 1>of one particular path that that movement undertook, and that

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<v Speaker 1>path has led to another nation struggling first liberation, and

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<v Speaker 1>that being the Palestinians.

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<v Speaker 4>The common example of distinction.

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<v Speaker 1>Used is that of the distinction between white nationalism and

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<v Speaker 1>black nationalism, white nationalism having a very clear history of

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<v Speaker 1>violent supremacy and clualism, while black nationalism was established in

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<v Speaker 1>response to that experience of subjugation and clualism and with

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<v Speaker 1>the desire for self determination. The program of nationalism specifically

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<v Speaker 1>among oppressed nations has generally seen the oppressed nation as

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<v Speaker 1>a united bloc national liberation movements nationalist movements. Nationalist movements

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<v Speaker 1>typically ignore class, they ignore gender, they ignore religion, and

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<v Speaker 1>they know other divisions for the most part. In favor

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<v Speaker 1>of the development of an independent state, which is usually

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<v Speaker 1>some form of capitalist either a state capitalist welfare capitalists

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<v Speaker 1>or a neoliberal capitalist a nationalism is often weaponized and

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<v Speaker 1>promoted by the ruined class in orders to unite the

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<v Speaker 1>oppressed classes with their domestic oppressors, replacing foreign capitalists, foreign generals,

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<v Speaker 1>local generals, and foreign government officials with local officials, in

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<v Speaker 1>a word, to conceal the importance of class struggle. You

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<v Speaker 1>see often in the cases of newly independent countries, there's

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<v Speaker 1>almost a brief haze of rather, let me speak not

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<v Speaker 1>generally but from my own knowledge of my own history.

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<v Speaker 1>Triand Tobago gained independence in nineteen sixty two from the British.

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<v Speaker 1>This was after a very brief period where we experimented

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<v Speaker 1>with a West Indian Federation, West Indies being a designation

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<v Speaker 1>of the Caribbean by the British. The federation failed and

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<v Speaker 1>so Trindad and Tobago struck out on their own, and

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<v Speaker 1>so Trance Tobago became an independent country in nineteen sixty two,

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<v Speaker 1>and there was really a sense of.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, joy and.

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<v Speaker 1>Jubile and celebration because of that freedom. You know, we

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<v Speaker 1>finally broke the shackles to the British. However, it was

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<v Speaker 1>a very recently, a very constitutional independence. You know, it

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't an independence brought forth by violent struggle. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't a situation like Algeria. It was more so

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<v Speaker 1>the British carefully groomed a generation of politicians and political

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<v Speaker 1>leaders that would and business leaders that would take on

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<v Speaker 1>the role that they were fulfilling in order to continue

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<v Speaker 1>that colonial situation in under new management essentially and the

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<v Speaker 1>more familiar management, and that very quickly became apparent to

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<v Speaker 1>the population, which is why we had the Black Power

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<v Speaker 1>Revolution in nineteen seventy. It was borne on to the

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<v Speaker 1>frustration that new management where everything was pretty much the same.

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<v Speaker 1>Many people who experience the successes of independence and of

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<v Speaker 1>nationalism that often bears out independence, they've actually come to

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<v Speaker 1>recognize that nationalism was not enough. Nationalism has repeatedly failed

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<v Speaker 1>to solve poverty, to solve oppression and exploitation and suffering,

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<v Speaker 1>or many states have become formally independent from their clum

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<v Speaker 1>masters thanks nationalist movements, Newcluanism perseveres, and yet in spite

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<v Speaker 1>of the continuation of oppression and suffering post independence, you

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<v Speaker 1>end up seeing some people's response to that being greater

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<v Speaker 1>nationalism rather than an exploration of other options. So it

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<v Speaker 1>is this result of nationalism that has led to its

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<v Speaker 1>criticism and opposition by anarchists. Again, there's a difference between

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<v Speaker 1>nationalism and national liberation. But in that criticism of nationalism,

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<v Speaker 1>I see some anarchists, while recognizing that there are class

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<v Speaker 1>divisions in the nation, end up ignoring national divisions in

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<v Speaker 1>a class in favor of some ideal and united working class.

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<v Speaker 1>The truth is that the oppressed classes of some nations

0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.080
<v Speaker 1>have benefited from the domination of the oppressed classes and

0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:27.720
<v Speaker 1>other nations, So let's not do class reductionism. Nations that

0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.480
<v Speaker 1>have had constant war waged against them for centuries tend

0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.520
<v Speaker 1>to turn in to nationalism for the national liberation.

0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:35.040
<v Speaker 4>That's obvious.

0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.120
<v Speaker 1>I think you know you cut them some slack for

0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.560
<v Speaker 1>not thinking about the global working class when they are

0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:45.760
<v Speaker 1>literally under assault for the national identity. When you fighting

0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:49.960
<v Speaker 1>colonial administrators and foreign armies, you're not studying the class war,

0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.920
<v Speaker 1>which is why historically national liberation struggles use in nationalism

0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:58.360
<v Speaker 1>have ignored class divisions among the oppressed nation, but not always.

0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:05.080
<v Speaker 1>Black nationalism, for example, has always been a very diverse

0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:09.280
<v Speaker 1>political movement with several currents and opposing perspectives within it.

0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.560
<v Speaker 1>The common threat is, of course, irresistance, the predominance the

0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:16.680
<v Speaker 1>white supremacist system and the assertion of lacks sovereignity. Recognizing

0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:19.600
<v Speaker 1>that we have to free ourselves without waiting for permission,

0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:22.320
<v Speaker 1>Recognizing that we have to protect ourselves from the continued

0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:27.080
<v Speaker 1>assault of the empire of the empire, Recognizing that we

0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:30.200
<v Speaker 1>can be proud of and love, or bodies or minds

0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:34.880
<v Speaker 1>on our heritage, or rejection of eurocentrism. And yet some

0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:41.240
<v Speaker 1>manifestations of black nationalism have been reactionary, capitalistic, morphobic, and patriarchal.

0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Others have student in stock opposition to those currents. In particular,

0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:53.320
<v Speaker 1>revolutionary black nationalism, unlike other forms of black nationalism, has

0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:58.240
<v Speaker 1>consistently stood in opposition to all forms of oppression, including imperialism,

0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:03.000
<v Speaker 1>white supremacy, and capitalism. In my view, and as many

0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:07.680
<v Speaker 1>other black anarchists have noted, revolutionary black nationalism has a

0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:12.679
<v Speaker 1>place in the struggle in conjunction with the struggle against patriarchy, capitalism,

0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.760
<v Speaker 1>and the state, as we aim to prefigure world free

0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:21.280
<v Speaker 1>of all forms of nomination. In spite of our critiques

0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:26.520
<v Speaker 1>of how nationalism tends to manifest, it is not the

0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:34.360
<v Speaker 1>only way to undertake national liberation. We can incorporate other

0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:38.600
<v Speaker 1>fights within that struggle. We can recognize the importance of

0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:44.800
<v Speaker 1>national liberation whilst staying true to our principles. Anarchism is

0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:51.480
<v Speaker 1>an internationalist movement. It aims for an entirely new world,

0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.920
<v Speaker 1>not just a pocket of change here and there. But

0:17:56.200 --> 0:18:00.840
<v Speaker 1>we cannot be so focused on that international struggle that

0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:06.480
<v Speaker 1>we ignore the very vital local and regional struggles taking place.

0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:13.440
<v Speaker 1>Internationalism and class struggle are not in contradiction to national

0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:18.320
<v Speaker 1>liberation struggle. I believe a real internationalism has to stand

0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:24.000
<v Speaker 1>in solidarity with the working class and peasantry everywhere, including

0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:29.480
<v Speaker 1>those of oppressed nationalities. However, at the same time, we

0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:35.800
<v Speaker 1>cannot uncritically support national liberation struggles. We cannot afford to

0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:41.480
<v Speaker 1>just write a blank check of support. It is necessary

0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:50.480
<v Speaker 1>to engage politically national liberation movements and engage in dialogues

0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:56.960
<v Speaker 1>with all of their complexities and contradictions, engaging with and

0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:01.400
<v Speaker 1>uplifting the progressive elements within those national libraations ruggles while

0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:05.040
<v Speaker 1>criticizing the reactionary elements within those struggles.

0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:19.120
<v Speaker 3>I think it's it's incredibly important.

0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if intervene in them is the correct thing,

0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:26.480
<v Speaker 2>is the best way to put it, But like you know,

0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:28.640
<v Speaker 2>from from from the sort of like East Asian perspective,

0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:30.160
<v Speaker 2>it's like, yeah, so we we had we had three

0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.560
<v Speaker 2>successful national liberation movements like next to each other, and

0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:35.920
<v Speaker 2>then after they won their national liberation movements, instead of

0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.439
<v Speaker 2>like continuing the war against the US or whatever, they

0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:39.320
<v Speaker 2>went to war with each.

0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:40.080
<v Speaker 4>Other, so.

0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:44.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, you have to sort of like something something,

0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:49.399
<v Speaker 2>something very clearly went wrong with our Natlib movements when well,

0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:52.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean obviously, like okay, something went very wrong with

0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:54.119
<v Speaker 2>Kamara Rouge, but.

0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.680
<v Speaker 4>Like you know, that's that's understates and things.

0:19:57.720 --> 0:19:59.520
<v Speaker 5>But yeah, yeah, you know that that's city. But like

0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:03.080
<v Speaker 5>you know, the they're like obviously that like that the

0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:05.280
<v Speaker 5>Khmara rus was fucked from the start. But you know

0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:10.240
<v Speaker 5>the fact that like the US and Vietnam, like the

0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:15.199
<v Speaker 5>Vietnamese like army finally defeats the American colonizers and then

0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.520
<v Speaker 5>basically immediately or invaded by China is a sign that

0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:24.240
<v Speaker 5>like something went terribly terribly wrong in the process of

0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:30.320
<v Speaker 5>these struggles, and that like I don't know, if you're

0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:32.760
<v Speaker 5>we're going to do this properly, you have to make

0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:36.560
<v Speaker 5>sure that like this shit doesn't happen, because you know,

0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.680
<v Speaker 5>it's it's a just the product of this is just

0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:44.760
<v Speaker 5>sort of unfathomable human tragedy of a bunch of colonized

0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:49.840
<v Speaker 5>people fucking murdering each other for like nothing, or you know,

0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:54.960
<v Speaker 5>I guess like China's obediate I don't know, geopolitical realignment

0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.119
<v Speaker 5>with the US and in exchange for like industrial capital

0:20:58.160 --> 0:20:58.920
<v Speaker 5>goods or some shit.

0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.560
<v Speaker 3>So you know, you gotta you gotta make sure that

0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:04.280
<v Speaker 3>doesn't happen.

0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:05.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:09.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that means intervening, Okay, like you said, you

0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:13.440
<v Speaker 1>don't want to say intervening necessarily, but it does require

0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.320
<v Speaker 1>having these discussions rely on, Like you don't wait until

0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:22.200
<v Speaker 1>after a preventable tragedy takes place to try and prevent

0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:28.760
<v Speaker 1>a tragedy. You know, if you're seeing signs of that

0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:35.200
<v Speaker 1>the potential for that, you know, probably do something about it.

0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:38.240
<v Speaker 1>If a movement is so fragile that a criticism of

0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.639
<v Speaker 1>the way that it's structured, or a criticism of an

0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:47.560
<v Speaker 1>aspect of its ideology is enough to prevent it from succeeding,

0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:53.560
<v Speaker 1>or prevent it from collapsing into internal divisions, whatever the

0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:57.520
<v Speaker 1>case may be, then I don't think that it is

0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:01.840
<v Speaker 1>robust enough to handle.

0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:07.680
<v Speaker 4>The struggle for a liberation.

0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's that's like they're definitely you're definitely going to lose.

0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:18.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like, if it's easy for an ally to criticize

0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:20.800
<v Speaker 1>and you know, maybe call something out and that's enough

0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:23.560
<v Speaker 1>for everything to crumble, how easy do you think it's

0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:26.200
<v Speaker 1>going to be for like your actual enemy is to

0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:31.680
<v Speaker 1>like come in and shake things up and like dismantle

0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:34.439
<v Speaker 1>the organization from the inside. You know, if you if

0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:40.080
<v Speaker 1>you don't have room for dissent from you know, your allies,

0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:42.760
<v Speaker 1>from your compatriots.

0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:44.280
<v Speaker 4>Then what about your enemies.

0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:45.560
<v Speaker 1>What do you think your enemies are going to try

0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:49.000
<v Speaker 1>and capitalize on They're going to try and fuel and

0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:53.440
<v Speaker 1>empower that descent and push it in different directions to

0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:59.440
<v Speaker 1>even further splinter the movement. You know, it's it's complicated,

0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:05.440
<v Speaker 1>it's difficult. It's not something that I ever wanted to

0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:10.720
<v Speaker 1>present myself as having all the answers for. But you know,

0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:15.600
<v Speaker 1>I feel like certain things should be clear. You know,

0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:23.800
<v Speaker 1>maybe we should try and preventednessues from getting worse if

0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:27.240
<v Speaker 1>you see, like, for example, a cult of personality develop,

0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:30.960
<v Speaker 1>and maybe do something about it before that culture personality

0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:34.520
<v Speaker 1>has you know, guns on their side and the full

0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:36.280
<v Speaker 1>power of the state apparatus behind them.

0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:39.560
<v Speaker 4>I mean, that's just me though.

0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:47.480
<v Speaker 1>A truly internationalist position, in my view, recognizes that human

0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:52.240
<v Speaker 1>unity can only be achieved through mutual respect, solidarity, alliance,

0:23:52.640 --> 0:24:00.119
<v Speaker 1>and discourse among people's International revolution would require participation in

0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:04.960
<v Speaker 1>national struggle for self determination and human dignity against computers domination.

0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:09.960
<v Speaker 1>It will require shift, as I always say, in our powers,

0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:14.160
<v Speaker 1>in our drives, in our consciousness. I think you want

0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:17.520
<v Speaker 1>to have sort of our tooth national liberation struggles. It

0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:21.520
<v Speaker 1>really starts in that realm. And then also I think

0:24:21.520 --> 0:24:25.480
<v Speaker 1>there are ways that we can, as allies, intervene in

0:24:25.560 --> 0:24:29.520
<v Speaker 1>certain aspect of that process, you know, in confrontation, lending

0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:34.879
<v Speaker 1>you know, material support to protests or occupations, in non cooperation,

0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:41.280
<v Speaker 1>supporting strike funds, in prefiguration, providing resources. You don't want

0:24:41.320 --> 0:24:46.440
<v Speaker 1>these acts of solidarity to get lost in NGOs or

0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:51.760
<v Speaker 1>and eat organizations, whatever you're trying to get things. Actually,

0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:53.960
<v Speaker 1>that's a whole tangent. Let me just scratch that entirely.

0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:56.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to go off. I'll leave off by saying

0:24:56.960 --> 0:25:04.440
<v Speaker 1>that if we oppose male supremacy, the patriarchy, we must

0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:08.760
<v Speaker 1>support women's fight against it. That does mean blandly supporting,

0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:15.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, bourgeois liberal boss feminism. It means listening to,

0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:22.040
<v Speaker 1>learning from and collaboratively developing the revolutionary feminist project to

0:25:22.119 --> 0:25:26.399
<v Speaker 1>liberate all women for patriarchal domination and ultimately all people.

0:25:27.680 --> 0:25:30.760
<v Speaker 1>If workers decide to former union in many cases and

0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:35.200
<v Speaker 1>existing union is pro capitalist and hierarchical. I had despite

0:25:35.240 --> 0:25:38.639
<v Speaker 1>the structural issues with many unions, we still stand with

0:25:38.720 --> 0:25:41.320
<v Speaker 1>the workers against the bosses, even as we try to

0:25:41.359 --> 0:25:44.280
<v Speaker 1>convince them of the need for a transformation of those

0:25:44.359 --> 0:25:48.200
<v Speaker 1>unions of union militancy, for position to bureaucracy in order

0:25:48.240 --> 0:25:51.080
<v Speaker 1>to fully liberate them from class domination. Instead of merely

0:25:51.160 --> 0:25:55.399
<v Speaker 1>engaged in dialogue with the oppressors, we can walk on

0:25:55.440 --> 0:25:56.960
<v Speaker 1>true them. At the same time as what I'm trying

0:25:57.000 --> 0:25:59.920
<v Speaker 1>to say, we can act in solidarity without being subsut

0:26:00.240 --> 0:26:03.359
<v Speaker 1>end to what we may perceive to be something that

0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:09.600
<v Speaker 1>goes against our values. Solidarity, as I like to view it,

0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:13.040
<v Speaker 1>is a discourse between people's about how we desamine our

0:26:13.040 --> 0:26:18.879
<v Speaker 1>own freedom. We may disagree with certain things. We can

0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:23.000
<v Speaker 1>critique certain things we've seen again and again, certain mistakes

0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:24.960
<v Speaker 1>being made over and over again and move once, and

0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:29.239
<v Speaker 1>we can call them out. But you know, you can

0:26:29.320 --> 0:26:32.560
<v Speaker 1>have your principles. You can engage, and you should engage

0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:36.919
<v Speaker 1>in the complexity and contradictions and national liberation struggles, offering

0:26:36.960 --> 0:26:41.440
<v Speaker 1>critique where needs to be, resistant reactionary, capitalist, patriarchal and

0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:45.240
<v Speaker 1>status elements when they manifest, and providing support in any

0:26:45.280 --> 0:26:48.119
<v Speaker 1>way that you are able in any way that they

0:26:49.200 --> 0:26:54.400
<v Speaker 1>request that you be. People aren't a monoliths. Think for yourself,

0:26:55.119 --> 0:26:58.639
<v Speaker 1>All power to all the people usual things. That's it

0:26:58.760 --> 0:27:01.760
<v Speaker 1>for me, and support me on peatre dot com slash

0:27:02.280 --> 0:27:06.240
<v Speaker 1>Saint Drew and follow me on YouTube at andrewism. This

0:27:06.560 --> 0:27:11.520
<v Speaker 1>has been here with myself and Mia be South.

0:27:16.000 --> 0:27:18.320
<v Speaker 5>It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

0:27:18.600 --> 0:27:21.240
<v Speaker 4>For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:23.480
<v Speaker 4>cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:26.920
<v Speaker 4>iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

0:27:27.520 --> 0:27:29.639
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0:27:29.720 --> 0:27:32.720
<v Speaker 5>monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources.

0:27:32.960 --> 0:27:33.760
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening