WEBVTT - Michael Tomasky & Greg Epstein 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:04.200 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.200 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:12.560 today's best minds, and Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson demanded hurricane 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:16.080 relief aid, which he did not end up voting for. 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:20.000 Of course, we have such a great show for you today. 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:24.240 The New Republic editor Mike Tamaski joins us to talk 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.560 about the debate and the state of the race. Then 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:33.400 we'll talk to Harvard and MIT humanist chaplain Greg Epstein 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:38.839 about his new book, tech Agnostic, how technology became the 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:42.840 world's most powerful religion and why it desperately needs a reformation. 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:46.800 But first the news and now the news. 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:51.120 So my, there's patterns that occur that some people lie 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.200 about those patterns. One of those patterns is is that 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.000 Trump does not say very nice things about our troops. 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.960 Yeah, Trump does not for whatever reason, is injured troops. Somehow, 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:06.080 even though normal people feel terrible for injured troops or 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:09.280 injured people in general, Trump seems to not have the 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:13.679 empathy chip, and much to his detriments, So on Tuesday, 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.399 he referred to brain injuries. These are troops who've had 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.760 these brain injuries that have ruined or greatly disturbed their lives. 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:23.880 These are the injuries. 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:26.680 They had in the Iranian attack on a base in Iraq. 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:28.320 He called them headaches. 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:32.120 And he made these comments on Tuesday after it was 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.800 believed that he had said, you'd been tougher on a 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.160 rand than anyone. And again, this is like Trump's whole 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:42.840 strong man thing where he says that he is better, tougher, 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:50.559 more presidential, but he usually usually just sort of ignores 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.640 the truth, and that's what's happening here. But also the 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:57.440 cruelty of these troops being injured and then having Donald 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:03.240 Trump just consider it to be lost completely a non 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:08.320 issue is really disturbing. And again we see Donald Trump 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:12.000 degrading the military. Not surprising, but disturbing. 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:12.440 It. 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:14.840 It has not been a great day for Donald Trump, 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:16.120 great week for Donald Trump. 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:16.720 Why is that? 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:20.400 Jesse, Well, there's a thing that the left is very 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:22.760 excited about in one of Trump's legal proceedings, which is 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.400 that there's going to be some unsealed filings a Trump 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:27.800 twenty twenty election case. 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.399 What are you seeing here, So, Judge chuck In unsealed 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.600 the Special Councils filing in the Trump twenty twenty election case. 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.960 Jack Smith had wanted to do this. We had thought 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.880 that maybe it wouldn't happen because Trump seems to get 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:45.040 away with everything. But in fact it has been unsealed. 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:47.760 It is one hundred and sixty five page filing with 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:52.840 some reactions. But the net of it is Donald Trump encouraged. 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.120 It's a lot of stuff we suspected, right. Like Donald 0:02:56.120 --> 0:03:01.560 Trump encouraged, got excited about the idea that there would 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:05.840 be another Brooks Brothers riot. He encouraged a riot. He 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:08.280 you know, a lot of the stuff you suspected. 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:08.639 Right. 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:13.120 When a colleague of that undefined campaign, there's a campaign 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.000 employee tells a person their batch of votes appear to 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.840 be heavily in favor of Joe Biden. The employee responded, 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:23.280 find a reason it isn't give us options to file litigation. 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.400 When a colleague suggested there would be unrest reminiscent of 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:31.360 the Brooks Brothers riot in Florida in two thousand, the 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:33.560 campaign employee. 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:35.600 Said, make them riot. 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:36.360 Do it. 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:40.560 The motion alleges, and the filing provided numerous examples of 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:44.440 how then Vice President Mike Pence allegedly tried to gradually 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:48.520 and gently convince Trump to accept his election loss. So 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:51.640 you know, it's a lot of stuff we thought, but 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:56.680 the proof is extremely important, and in my mind, it's 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.800 good to see that we're not all crazy and that, 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.040 but a lot of us suspected what was happening was 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:05.840 actually happening. Jesse Cannon, I have a news article that 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:08.360 I want to add to our news cycle today. 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:09.600 Tell me all about it. 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:13.200 A pair of billionaire preachers, if that is Oh, yes, 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:16.520 I read about this, tidaw. A pair of billionaire preachers 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.839 built the most powerful political machine in Texas. I know 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:21.640 you're going to be shocked to hear this, but they 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:23.600 are not Democrats. 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:27.600 You're telling me the people who benefit from a tax 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:30.719 loophole the most are not Democrats. I don't believe you. 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:35.440 It's two oil tycoons, Tim Dunn and Ferris Wilkes, and 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:39.080 they have basically pushed the Texas State House to the 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:44.039 furthest right of anyone's wildest dreams. They're Christian nationalists, but 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:45.479 they also donate a lot of money. 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:46.840 You trump in there. 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:51.520 Is a line about how it's so conservative that the 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:56.159 state House is so conservative now that old school Republicans 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.680 are basically rhinos. 0:04:58.880 --> 0:04:59.680 Compared to this. 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.640 I mean, what's really interesting about these two is they 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:06.200 really want to end public schools with vouchers and create 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:11.720 a Christian school world, and that is again because of 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:18.880 the desire to make America a Christian nation. It's definitely 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.960 worth reading. It's in pro publica. It's a kind of 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:27.719 really expensive reporting that all of us need to support 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.640 and super interesting and definitely worth the read. 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.039 We have even more toward dates for you. Did you 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.400 know the Lincoln projects Rick Wills that have Fast Politics 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:44.640 BOLEI jug Fast are heading out on tour to bring 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:47.960 you the night of laughs for our dark political landscape. 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:50.279 Join us on August twenty sixth at San Francisco at 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.320 the Swedish American Hall, or in la on August twenty 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.280 seventh at the Regent Theater. Then we're headed to the Midwest. 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:58.919 We'll be at the Bavariam in Milwaukee on the twenty 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:01.520 first of September, and on the twenty second we'll be 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:03.760 in Chicago at City Winery. Then we're going to hit 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.479 the East coast. On September thirtieth, we'll be in Boston 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:08.800 at Arts at the Armory. On the first of October 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:11.560 we'll be in Affiliates City Winery and then DC on 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:13.880 the second at the Miracle Theater. And today we just 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:15.960 announced that we'll be in New York on the fourteenth 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:18.680 of October at City Winery. If you need to laugh 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:20.960 as we get through this election and hopefully never hear 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.159 from a guy who lives in a golf club again, 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:26.080 we got you covered. Join us in our surprise guests 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:27.920 to help you laugh instead of cry your way through 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.640 this election season and give you the inside analysis of 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.360 what's really going on right now. Buy your tickets now 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:37.480 by heading to Politics as Unusual dot bio. That's Politics 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:39.599 as Unusual dot bio. 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.520 Mike Tamaski is the editor of The New Republic and 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:48.000 author of The Middle Out The Rise of Progressive Economics. 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:53.720 Welcome back to Fast Politics. My friend, my editor, Mike Tamaski. 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:56.320 Oh Stukes, my former editor. 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.359 Yeah, but my heart, Yeah the best. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:02.800 Still have visions in your pros in my dreams occasion. 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.960 Ah, my pros are not that good. I think your 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:10.040 editing is better than my writing. Let's talk about where 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:15.120 we are with in the world of politics and insanity. 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.760 Yeah, you know, we're in a decent place. I think 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:20.880 we all would have liked him. Walls who have done 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.600 better in that debate and would have liked to see 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.880 him throw more punches and correct more of those lives. 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:28.960 On the other hand, I've seen now three polls after 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:34.600 action polls showing that he really won among independents. It's 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:38.400 very interesting thing to look at. People like us pundits 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:41.280 all agree that Vance won. Advance was more polished. There's 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:43.239 no question about it. If you look at the poles 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.120 of regular people who watch and ask who won, Yeah, 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.600 and it's Advance, but margin of error or sometimes it's 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.360 a dead heat, so there's no clear consensus on who won. 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:56.239 But then among independence, I've seen three polls that Wills 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.800 and Independence favored him handily. So it may be Molly 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.680 that exactly the thing that people like you and I 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.440 wanted him to do was just to be partisan, be 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:07.760 a fire breathing partisan. It may well be that the 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:11.560 fact that he wasn't that is exactly what went over Independence. 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:15.920 Yeah, I mean, I think it makes sense that Vance, 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.520 even though Vance was a little nicer last night, that 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:25.680 the niceness and the sort of cheerful Midwestern demeanor of 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:32.120 Walls is actually more meaningful to voters than being right 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:36.520 or scoring points or debunking miss right. 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:37.400 I mean that's the thing. 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:39.360 It's like, I feel like we should have a moment 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:43.000 here to talk about vibes and the case four vibes. 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:44.479 Okay, you ready. 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:46.160 On pro vibe fire away. 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.320 For example, there's been so much time during the Biden 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:53.320 administration when I've talked to people in the admin or 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.880 around the admin or media people, and you know, you've said, well, 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:00.160 they do they're doing this, chips and science, they are 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.440 doing this, they're doing that. And they've said, you know, 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:06.160 when you've you know, all this really good, cool, interesting 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.960 policy stuff, and then you know the person will say, yeah, 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.040 but nobody knows, so does it matter if nobody knows? 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.679 And then all of a sudden Harris gets in the 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:19.920 race and she has really good vibes for whatever reason, 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.160 the vibes are like it's like the opposite of Biden. 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.800 People are just they wanted and they're interested in her 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:29.360 and they love her and they you know, there's just vibes. 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.440 And then people are like, you can't run for president 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:34.160 of vibes. 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:37.880 O contrere. I mean a lot of people have a 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.640 lot of people have I mean, you know, obviously the 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:44.280 policies and general philosophy has got to be mixed in there. 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.480 But yeah, they're Democrats. I mean, they have a lot 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:48.080 of policy. 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:51.000 I mean, you know, Ronald Reagan was a vibe kind 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.120 of candidate. I mean it was clear what he was for, 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:56.080 you know, or what he was against government. But he 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:59.280 was a vibee kind of candidate with that sunny smile 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:00.439 of his and stuff like that. 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.320 But wasn't Bill Clinton kind of a vibey candidate. 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:07.480 Clinton's kind of vibey Obama was. I mean, any successful 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:11.720 charismatic politician is here's the way to put it. Voters 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:16.240 and just human beings. You know, we reason emotionally. Okay, 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.920 we reason emotionally that which has to say, our first 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:25.080 response to a person we see on TV, or you know, 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:29.000 a sports team who we obsessed partly on the basis 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.679 of their color schemes and uniforms. You know, our first 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:35.920 reactions are emotional, and they're just instant, and they're either 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:38.560 kind of positive or kind of negative. And then we 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:43.040 start building in our brain the logical reasons that support 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:47.480 that first emotional instinct. So you're either, in the case 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.760 of Donald Trump, a case unfathomable to you and me. 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:53.439 There are millions of people out there who saw him 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.120 come down to that escalator and went, that's my guy. 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.160 And then right, you know, and they just did that emotionally, 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:03.280 and then you are constructing the intellectual reasons while you're 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.040 for it, But the first reaction is emotional. Without question. 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.680 I think there's really a case for vibes here in 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:16.000 this moment in political life, and Trump was largely a 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:17.439 vibes based candidate. 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:21.920 He was and remains so, and so like she needs 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.000 to be in her own right, we have a great 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.559 matchup here because she's very much the opposite. 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:30.240 So now let's talk about what she needs to do 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:34.000 right now. I've heard anxiety that she's not on the 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:37.840 trail enough, but there was just a major, major hurricane 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:42.200 and she's down there in Georgia today doing what she 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.880 needs to do and not looking partisan, and you know, 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.400 she is in leadership. There are like three things happening 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:54.120 right now that I think are these sort of outside issues. 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:58.000 There's a hurricane, there's this doc worker strike, which could 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:02.120 be enormous, and then there's the Iran Israel war. 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.520 So talk to me the last one first. That could 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:07.760 damage I mean, it depends on how it goes over 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.360 the next four and a half weeks. Obviously, this is 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:15.160 a situation where she can't particularly depart much from her boss, 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:19.800 and her boss, unfortunately, is saying do anything you want 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.000 to do, Bibe. Now, waging a war against Husblela is 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.560 a different thing than killing a bunch of babies at Kaza. 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:29.120 Everybody understands that. But you know, I don't know. The 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:30.880 only thing we can do is just hope that that 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:36.080 conflagration doesn't explode before November fifth, because she just can't 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.240 really separate herself very much from the president while she's 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.040 the vice president. It's just really hard to do. Hubert 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.600 Humphrey learned that in nineteen sixty eight. Now with the strike, 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.920 I worry about that. I have read that it would 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.920 take like three weeks for the effects to be felt 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:55.200 by the average consumer. So I would certainly hope they 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:56.720 can get it settled before then. 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.560 Despite the fact that the head of the dock workers 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.680 is from friend, they have not gotten a raise in 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.359 a long time, and the business is a good business. 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.959 But they endorsed Harris back in July, right, the undid did, Yeah, 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.520 the union did, but some of that, so there's that. 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.559 I don't know. The only other thing I would say Mollie, 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.600 is that Okay, Harris came out of the gate, you know, 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.439 like a fire ablaze, you know, tons of energy, tons 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:25.040 of sizzle, tons of charisma. Walls seemed a great choice. 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:29.480 Their first barnstorming tour, great convention, great barnstorming tour, after 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:33.280 the convention, great debate. Great. In the last week or two, 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:35.960 a couple of weeks, they've lost a little bit of 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:41.040 that is inevitable, that can't be sustained forever. But okay, 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.680 the question phasing the campaign is they should have known, 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:45.280 and I'm sure they did know they were going to 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.160 lose some of that. So what do you do? How 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.120 do you keep it going? What's the next phase? I 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.560 don't think that's really clear yet what the next phase is. 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:59.320 And they there's just a certain sharpness that's missing. I mean, 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:01.920 maybe it comes from just being out on the trail. 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.280 And of course you and I aren't seeing this because 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:09.439 we're not in places where you know, it's the States, yeah, 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.520 and we're not seeing ads, and we're not seeing news 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.160 accounts of their visits or anything. But I feel that 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:19.200 they have lost a little momentum and last night was 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:21.880 would have been a chance to get the momentum back 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.600 and they didn't, so I don't know exactly what they 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:25.840 do right now. 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.520 So I did talk to them and was like, are 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.200 you guys on the trail en? 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:32.360 Yeah? 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:35.920 I talked to someone in Biden world, not in Harris world, 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:41.840 and he said it would be unseemly right now to 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.280 be out there with the hurricane. 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:48.760 Yeah. Well, I mean I don't understand those calculations. They're 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.200 above my pay grade. But I think she needs to 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.840 introduce some new ideas, introduce some new lines of attack 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.240 against Trump. I assume they're getting a commercial up about 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.480 Vance saying last night he said about the election in 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.240 January sixth and so on. You know, they need to 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:08.240 press that. Remember freedom from the Convention and the flag 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:12.040 waving and all that stuff. I loved that stuff. Get 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:13.720 back to that, and she talks about it in her 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.320 stump speeches. I watch her stump speeches sometimes, but there 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.080 still needs to be a little bit more communication to 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:22.760 people of who she is. And you know what the 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.040 core idea is behind this campaign? 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:26.200 Yeah, exactly. 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.880 And I think that's a really important point, is that 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:32.640 there's got to be some of that. Talk to me 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:36.720 about this moment where at the end of the debate. 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:42.400 Vance is unable to say that Donald Trump lost in 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:43.280 twenty twenty. 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.400 Well, it was the moment of the debate. It's a 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.880 moment that, potentially, depending on what the Democrats managed to 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.720 do with it, cancels out all of his fluid and 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:59.560 successful answers earlier. It's very clear that Vance said the 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:02.880 things he's said, that Timberwall said, he said, and you 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.480 know he has said, you know what he would do 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:08.000 with respect to you know, the next time around. So 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:10.680 I think that's something that I wish that had come 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.960 first Rathertheless, I wish that'd be the first question. 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.120 The good news is so many people will see the 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.920 clips of it. Yeah, that linear doesn't necessarily matter the 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.120 way it did alone, you know, the way it did 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.800 when everyone had cable. The problem is trump Ism is 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:30.120 built on a lie, right, It's built on a lie 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.600 that Trump won the twenty twenty election, which now Trump 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:37.360 has stopped saying because I don't either he has some 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.880 kind of memory issues or he's just decided that he's 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.720 going to tell the truth about the twenty twenty election finally, 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:46.800 But now he says I lost it by a whisker. 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.320 You hear that sometimes, So like the. 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.840 Lie of trump Ism is really one of the fundamental premises. 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.040 The thing that made me anxious if we're going to 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.800 go into Molly free therapy, which I guess we are 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.720 because no one can stop me, is that. And we 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:09.560 have not seen anyone able to do this really. Advance 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.640 was able to do trumpsm without Trump a couple times 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:17.760 during that debate. You know, this sort of sunny midwestern guy. 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.640 He's not really midwestern, right, but he sort of became 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:24.159 kind of you know, he's a cipher, so he became 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.000 kind of Midwestern when he was with Walls, and you 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:31.199 really did see a kind of you know, I'm just 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.880 a folksy guy who wants to monitor women's periods. And 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:39.639 I did feel like that line he has, which I 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:43.160 think works really well for him, is that liberals say 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.720 that if Donald Trump is president, everything is going to 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.879 be a nightmare. But Donald Trump was president before and 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:52.000 you're all still here, right, And some of those ideas 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.359 like where he sort of made this case that Trump 0:17:55.520 --> 0:18:00.960 was saving Obamacare even though it's not true, olt like 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.400 he was able to put a plausible spin on it. 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.479 Well he was, and that's you know, that's where you know, 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.840 we were disappointed the Walls didn't rebut that particularly that 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:13.720 thing about saying at Mountcare that was just insane. 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:17.000 And I mean amazingly demented and insane. 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.439 It was. So Vance is going to head back out 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.000 on the trail. I would presume he's going to go 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.160 back to talking the way he talked before this debate, right, 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:27.879 because that's that's what those audiences want to hear. They 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.639 don't they don't want to hear mister midwestern nice guy. 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.320 They don't want to hear a guy who expresses sympathy 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:35.720 to Tim Walls at the fact that his son saw 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:40.240 somebody get shot. They want somebody who breathes fire. 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:42.720 That was the mainstream pivot, right. 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.240 Yeah, they want somebody who breathes fire. And I think 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:47.600 he's kind of like returned to being that person in 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:48.440 pretty short order. 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:53.520 What scares me is that the mainstream pivot works, and 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:57.480 that one of the reasons why Trump is is having 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:01.600 so much trouble surviving is because of Trump, and that 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:07.360 his policies, if given to someone who is more disciplined, 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.560 less in saying better pretending to be normal, could ultimately 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:15.399 Project twenty twenty five could really end up being a 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:16.000 real thing. 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.000 Well, yes, but that's a problem for God on the road. 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.159 You know, right now our problem is Donald Trump. But 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.760 the pivot to normal can work. But you know, Romney 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:27.399 did a similar thing in the first debate in two 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:29.919 thousand and eight. He didn't become president. You know, it 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.440 depends on what the other side does with it. And 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.920 after that debate, Obama shaped up won the next two debates. 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:41.040 And also they've attacked Romney very successfully over baying capital 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:45.280 and they won comfortably. And I think, you know, Harris Harrison, 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:47.240 the Democrats can do the same thing. They have more 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.080 money than God. They can put whatever virtuals they want. 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:53.960 You know, there's not enough airtime in Michigan for them 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:56.479 to spend all their money. They have so much money. 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.240 So as long as they do good ads and good 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:03.280 TikTok social media stuff, then you know, I think they 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:06.000 still ought to be able to define Trump in a 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:09.399 way that you know, Vance's performance last night will be 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:11.320 a distant memory by November fifth. 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:15.919 Yeah, that's right. Thank you so much, Mike Tamaski. I 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:17.040 hope you wilcome back. 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:18.520 Thank you anytime. 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:21.960 Are you concerned about Project twenty twenty five and how 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:25.679 awful Trump's second term could be. Well, so are we, 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.240 which is why we teamed up with iHeart to make 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.879 a limited series with the experts on what a disaster 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:36.080 Project twenty twenty five would be for America's future. Right now, 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:39.440 we have just released the final episode of this five 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.480 episode series. They're all available by looking up Molly John 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:47.159 Fast Project twenty twenty five on YouTube. And if you 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.840 are more of a podcast person and not say a YouTuber, 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:53.639 you can hit play and put your phone in the 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:56.760 lock screen and it will play back just like the podcast. 0:20:57.040 --> 0:20:59.359 All five episodes are online now. 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:00.679 We need to educate. 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:04.040 Americans on what Trump's second term would or could do 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:07.000 to this country, so please watch it and spread the word. 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:14.439 Harvard and MIT chaplain Greg Ebstein is the author of 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:19.080 tech Agnostic, How Technology became the world's most powerful religion 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:26.040 and why it desperately needs a reformation. Welcome Too Fast Politics, Greg, Thank. 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:28.800 You so much. Molly, it's so good to talk to you. 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:31.280 All right, you gotta tell us first of all, tell 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:32.960 us what you do. 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:36.600 And then you can tell us what your book is about. 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:42.320 My title is the Humanist Chaplain at Harvard and MIT, 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:48.160 so I serve those two universities. Chaplain is usually thought 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:52.400 of as a religious advisor, community leader, etc. But I'm 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:55.159 non religious. I'm an atheist. To the word that I 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:59.280 like best is humanists, and I serve the very large, 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:03.240 actually non religious communities at those institutions. 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:06.919 So you're a religious advisor for the non religious. 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:10.240 Yeah, And I myself am non religious. It's unusual. When 0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:12.719 I first have it, got to Harvard to do this 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:16.080 work about twenty plus years ago, I was one of 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:20.119