1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson demanded hurricane 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: relief aid, which he did not end up voting for. 5 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: Of course, we have such a great show for you today. 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: The New Republic editor Mike Tamaski joins us to talk 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: about the debate and the state of the race. Then 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: we'll talk to Harvard and MIT humanist chaplain Greg Epstein 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: about his new book, tech Agnostic, how technology became the 10 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: world's most powerful religion and why it desperately needs a reformation. 11 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: But first the news and now the news. 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 3: So my, there's patterns that occur that some people lie 13 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 3: about those patterns. One of those patterns is is that 14 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 3: Trump does not say very nice things about our troops. 15 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, Trump does not for whatever reason, is injured troops. Somehow, 16 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: even though normal people feel terrible for injured troops or 17 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: injured people in general, Trump seems to not have the 18 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: empathy chip, and much to his detriments, So on Tuesday, 19 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: he referred to brain injuries. These are troops who've had 20 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: these brain injuries that have ruined or greatly disturbed their lives. 21 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: These are the injuries. 22 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: They had in the Iranian attack on a base in Iraq. 23 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 2: He called them headaches. 24 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: And he made these comments on Tuesday after it was 25 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: believed that he had said, you'd been tougher on a 26 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: rand than anyone. And again, this is like Trump's whole 27 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: strong man thing where he says that he is better, tougher, 28 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:50,559 Speaker 1: more presidential, but he usually usually just sort of ignores 29 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: the truth, and that's what's happening here. But also the 30 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: cruelty of these troops being injured and then having Donald 31 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: Trump just consider it to be lost completely a non 32 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: issue is really disturbing. And again we see Donald Trump 33 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: degrading the military. Not surprising, but disturbing. 34 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 4: It. 35 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: It has not been a great day for Donald Trump, 36 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: great week for Donald Trump. 37 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: Why is that? 38 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 3: Jesse, Well, there's a thing that the left is very 39 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 3: excited about in one of Trump's legal proceedings, which is 40 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 3: that there's going to be some unsealed filings a Trump 41 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 3: twenty twenty election case. 42 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,399 Speaker 1: What are you seeing here, So, Judge chuck In unsealed 43 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: the Special Councils filing in the Trump twenty twenty election case. 44 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: Jack Smith had wanted to do this. We had thought 45 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: that maybe it wouldn't happen because Trump seems to get 46 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: away with everything. But in fact it has been unsealed. 47 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: It is one hundred and sixty five page filing with 48 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: some reactions. But the net of it is Donald Trump encouraged. 49 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: It's a lot of stuff we suspected, right. Like Donald 50 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: Trump encouraged, got excited about the idea that there would 51 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: be another Brooks Brothers riot. He encouraged a riot. He 52 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the stuff you suspected. 53 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 2: Right. 54 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: When a colleague of that undefined campaign, there's a campaign 55 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: employee tells a person their batch of votes appear to 56 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: be heavily in favor of Joe Biden. The employee responded, 57 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: find a reason it isn't give us options to file litigation. 58 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: When a colleague suggested there would be unrest reminiscent of 59 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: the Brooks Brothers riot in Florida in two thousand, the 60 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: campaign employee. 61 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: Said, make them riot. 62 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 4: Do it. 63 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: The motion alleges, and the filing provided numerous examples of 64 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: how then Vice President Mike Pence allegedly tried to gradually 65 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: and gently convince Trump to accept his election loss. So 66 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's a lot of stuff we thought, but 67 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: the proof is extremely important, and in my mind, it's 68 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: good to see that we're not all crazy and that, 69 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: but a lot of us suspected what was happening was 70 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: actually happening. Jesse Cannon, I have a news article that 71 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: I want to add to our news cycle today. 72 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 3: Tell me all about it. 73 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: A pair of billionaire preachers, if that is Oh, yes, 74 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: I read about this, tidaw. A pair of billionaire preachers 75 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: built the most powerful political machine in Texas. I know 76 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: you're going to be shocked to hear this, but they 77 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: are not Democrats. 78 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 3: You're telling me the people who benefit from a tax 79 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 3: loophole the most are not Democrats. I don't believe you. 80 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: It's two oil tycoons, Tim Dunn and Ferris Wilkes, and 81 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: they have basically pushed the Texas State House to the 82 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: furthest right of anyone's wildest dreams. They're Christian nationalists, but 83 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 1: they also donate a lot of money. 84 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 2: You trump in there. 85 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: Is a line about how it's so conservative that the 86 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: state House is so conservative now that old school Republicans 87 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: are basically rhinos. 88 00:04:58,880 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 2: Compared to this. 89 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: I mean, what's really interesting about these two is they 90 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: really want to end public schools with vouchers and create 91 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: a Christian school world, and that is again because of 92 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: the desire to make America a Christian nation. It's definitely 93 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: worth reading. It's in pro publica. It's a kind of 94 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 1: really expensive reporting that all of us need to support 95 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: and super interesting and definitely worth the read. 96 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 5: We have even more toward dates for you. Did you 97 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 5: know the Lincoln projects Rick Wills that have Fast Politics 98 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 5: BOLEI jug Fast are heading out on tour to bring 99 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 5: you the night of laughs for our dark political landscape. 100 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 5: Join us on August twenty sixth at San Francisco at 101 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 5: the Swedish American Hall, or in la on August twenty 102 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 5: seventh at the Regent Theater. Then we're headed to the Midwest. 103 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 5: We'll be at the Bavariam in Milwaukee on the twenty 104 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 5: first of September, and on the twenty second we'll be 105 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 5: in Chicago at City Winery. Then we're going to hit 106 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 5: the East coast. On September thirtieth, we'll be in Boston 107 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 5: at Arts at the Armory. On the first of October 108 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 5: we'll be in Affiliates City Winery and then DC on 109 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 5: the second at the Miracle Theater. And today we just 110 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 5: announced that we'll be in New York on the fourteenth 111 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 5: of October at City Winery. If you need to laugh 112 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 5: as we get through this election and hopefully never hear 113 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 5: from a guy who lives in a golf club again, 114 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 5: we got you covered. Join us in our surprise guests 115 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 5: to help you laugh instead of cry your way through 116 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 5: this election season and give you the inside analysis of 117 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 5: what's really going on right now. Buy your tickets now 118 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 5: by heading to Politics as Unusual dot bio. That's Politics 119 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 5: as Unusual dot bio. 120 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: Mike Tamaski is the editor of The New Republic and 121 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: author of The Middle Out The Rise of Progressive Economics. 122 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Politics. My friend, my editor, Mike Tamaski. 123 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: Oh Stukes, my former editor. 124 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, but my heart, Yeah the best. 125 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 6: Still have visions in your pros in my dreams occasion. 126 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: Ah, my pros are not that good. I think your 127 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: editing is better than my writing. Let's talk about where 128 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: we are with in the world of politics and insanity. 129 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, we're in a decent place. I think 130 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 6: we all would have liked him. Walls who have done 131 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 6: better in that debate and would have liked to see 132 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 6: him throw more punches and correct more of those lives. 133 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 6: On the other hand, I've seen now three polls after 134 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 6: action polls showing that he really won among independents. It's 135 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 6: very interesting thing to look at. People like us pundits 136 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 6: all agree that Vance won. Advance was more polished. There's 137 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,239 Speaker 6: no question about it. If you look at the poles 138 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 6: of regular people who watch and ask who won, Yeah, 139 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 6: and it's Advance, but margin of error or sometimes it's 140 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 6: a dead heat, so there's no clear consensus on who won. 141 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,239 Speaker 6: But then among independence, I've seen three polls that Wills 142 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 6: and Independence favored him handily. So it may be Molly 143 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 6: that exactly the thing that people like you and I 144 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 6: wanted him to do was just to be partisan, be 145 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 6: a fire breathing partisan. It may well be that the 146 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 6: fact that he wasn't that is exactly what went over Independence. 147 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think it makes sense that Vance, 148 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: even though Vance was a little nicer last night, that 149 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: the niceness and the sort of cheerful Midwestern demeanor of 150 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: Walls is actually more meaningful to voters than being right 151 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: or scoring points or debunking miss right. 152 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 2: I mean that's the thing. 153 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: It's like, I feel like we should have a moment 154 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: here to talk about vibes and the case four vibes. 155 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:44,479 Speaker 2: Okay, you ready. 156 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 6: On pro vibe fire away. 157 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: For example, there's been so much time during the Biden 158 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: administration when I've talked to people in the admin or 159 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: around the admin or media people, and you know, you've said, well, 160 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: they do they're doing this, chips and science, they are 161 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: doing this, they're doing that. And they've said, you know, 162 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: when you've you know, all this really good, cool, interesting 163 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: policy stuff, and then you know the person will say, yeah, 164 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: but nobody knows, so does it matter if nobody knows? 165 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden Harris gets in the 166 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: race and she has really good vibes for whatever reason, 167 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: the vibes are like it's like the opposite of Biden. 168 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: People are just they wanted and they're interested in her 169 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: and they love her and they you know, there's just vibes. 170 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: And then people are like, you can't run for president 171 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: of vibes. 172 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 6: O contrere. I mean a lot of people have a 173 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 6: lot of people have I mean, you know, obviously the 174 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 6: policies and general philosophy has got to be mixed in there. 175 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: But yeah, they're Democrats. I mean, they have a lot 176 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 2: of policy. 177 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 6: I mean, you know, Ronald Reagan was a vibe kind 178 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 6: of candidate. I mean it was clear what he was for, 179 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 6: you know, or what he was against government. But he 180 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 6: was a vibee kind of candidate with that sunny smile 181 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 6: of his and stuff like that. 182 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: But wasn't Bill Clinton kind of a vibey candidate. 183 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 6: Clinton's kind of vibey Obama was. I mean, any successful 184 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 6: charismatic politician is here's the way to put it. Voters 185 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 6: and just human beings. You know, we reason emotionally. Okay, 186 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 6: we reason emotionally that which has to say, our first 187 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 6: response to a person we see on TV, or you know, 188 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 6: a sports team who we obsessed partly on the basis 189 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 6: of their color schemes and uniforms. You know, our first 190 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 6: reactions are emotional, and they're just instant, and they're either 191 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 6: kind of positive or kind of negative. And then we 192 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 6: start building in our brain the logical reasons that support 193 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 6: that first emotional instinct. So you're either, in the case 194 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 6: of Donald Trump, a case unfathomable to you and me. 195 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 6: There are millions of people out there who saw him 196 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 6: come down to that escalator and went, that's my guy. 197 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 6: And then right, you know, and they just did that emotionally, 198 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 6: and then you are constructing the intellectual reasons while you're 199 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 6: for it, But the first reaction is emotional. Without question. 200 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: I think there's really a case for vibes here in 201 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: this moment in political life, and Trump was largely a 202 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 1: vibes based candidate. 203 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 6: He was and remains so, and so like she needs 204 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 6: to be in her own right, we have a great 205 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 6: matchup here because she's very much the opposite. 206 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: So now let's talk about what she needs to do 207 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: right now. I've heard anxiety that she's not on the 208 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: trail enough, but there was just a major, major hurricane 209 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: and she's down there in Georgia today doing what she 210 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: needs to do and not looking partisan, and you know, 211 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: she is in leadership. There are like three things happening 212 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: right now that I think are these sort of outside issues. 213 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: There's a hurricane, there's this doc worker strike, which could 214 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: be enormous, and then there's the Iran Israel war. 215 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 6: So talk to me the last one first. That could 216 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 6: damage I mean, it depends on how it goes over 217 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 6: the next four and a half weeks. Obviously, this is 218 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 6: a situation where she can't particularly depart much from her boss, 219 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 6: and her boss, unfortunately, is saying do anything you want 220 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 6: to do, Bibe. Now, waging a war against Husblela is 221 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 6: a different thing than killing a bunch of babies at Kaza. 222 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 6: Everybody understands that. But you know, I don't know. The 223 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 6: only thing we can do is just hope that that 224 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 6: conflagration doesn't explode before November fifth, because she just can't 225 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 6: really separate herself very much from the president while she's 226 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 6: the vice president. It's just really hard to do. Hubert 227 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 6: Humphrey learned that in nineteen sixty eight. Now with the strike, 228 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 6: I worry about that. I have read that it would 229 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 6: take like three weeks for the effects to be felt 230 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 6: by the average consumer. So I would certainly hope they 231 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 6: can get it settled before then. 232 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: Despite the fact that the head of the dock workers 233 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: is from friend, they have not gotten a raise in 234 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,359 Speaker 1: a long time, and the business is a good business. 235 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 6: But they endorsed Harris back in July, right, the undid did, Yeah, 236 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 6: the union did, but some of that, so there's that. 237 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,559 Speaker 6: I don't know. The only other thing I would say Mollie, 238 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 6: is that Okay, Harris came out of the gate, you know, 239 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 6: like a fire ablaze, you know, tons of energy, tons 240 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 6: of sizzle, tons of charisma. Walls seemed a great choice. 241 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 6: Their first barnstorming tour, great convention, great barnstorming tour, after 242 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 6: the convention, great debate. Great. In the last week or two, 243 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 6: a couple of weeks, they've lost a little bit of 244 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 6: that is inevitable, that can't be sustained forever. But okay, 245 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 6: the question phasing the campaign is they should have known, 246 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 6: and I'm sure they did know they were going to 247 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 6: lose some of that. So what do you do? How 248 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 6: do you keep it going? What's the next phase? I 249 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 6: don't think that's really clear yet what the next phase is. 250 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 6: And they there's just a certain sharpness that's missing. I mean, 251 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 6: maybe it comes from just being out on the trail. 252 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 6: And of course you and I aren't seeing this because 253 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 6: we're not in places where you know, it's the States, yeah, 254 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 6: and we're not seeing ads, and we're not seeing news 255 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 6: accounts of their visits or anything. But I feel that 256 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 6: they have lost a little momentum and last night was 257 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 6: would have been a chance to get the momentum back 258 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 6: and they didn't, so I don't know exactly what they 259 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 6: do right now. 260 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: So I did talk to them and was like, are 261 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: you guys on the trail en? 262 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 6: Yeah? 263 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: I talked to someone in Biden world, not in Harris world, 264 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: and he said it would be unseemly right now to 265 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: be out there with the hurricane. 266 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 6: Yeah. Well, I mean I don't understand those calculations. They're 267 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 6: above my pay grade. But I think she needs to 268 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 6: introduce some new ideas, introduce some new lines of attack 269 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 6: against Trump. I assume they're getting a commercial up about 270 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 6: Vance saying last night he said about the election in 271 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 6: January sixth and so on. You know, they need to 272 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 6: press that. Remember freedom from the Convention and the flag 273 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 6: waving and all that stuff. I loved that stuff. Get 274 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 6: back to that, and she talks about it in her 275 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 6: stump speeches. I watch her stump speeches sometimes, but there 276 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 6: still needs to be a little bit more communication to 277 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 6: people of who she is. And you know what the 278 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 6: core idea is behind this campaign? 279 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 280 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: And I think that's a really important point, is that 281 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: there's got to be some of that. Talk to me 282 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: about this moment where at the end of the debate. 283 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: Vance is unable to say that Donald Trump lost in 284 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. 285 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 6: Well, it was the moment of the debate. It's a 286 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 6: moment that, potentially, depending on what the Democrats managed to 287 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 6: do with it, cancels out all of his fluid and 288 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 6: successful answers earlier. It's very clear that Vance said the 289 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 6: things he's said, that Timberwall said, he said, and you 290 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 6: know he has said, you know what he would do 291 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 6: with respect to you know, the next time around. So 292 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 6: I think that's something that I wish that had come 293 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 6: first Rathertheless, I wish that'd be the first question. 294 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: The good news is so many people will see the 295 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: clips of it. Yeah, that linear doesn't necessarily matter the 296 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: way it did alone, you know, the way it did 297 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: when everyone had cable. The problem is trump Ism is 298 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: built on a lie, right, It's built on a lie 299 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: that Trump won the twenty twenty election, which now Trump 300 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: has stopped saying because I don't either he has some 301 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: kind of memory issues or he's just decided that he's 302 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: going to tell the truth about the twenty twenty election finally, 303 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: But now he says I lost it by a whisker. 304 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 2: You hear that sometimes, So like the. 305 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: Lie of trump Ism is really one of the fundamental premises. 306 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: The thing that made me anxious if we're going to 307 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: go into Molly free therapy, which I guess we are 308 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: because no one can stop me, is that. And we 309 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: have not seen anyone able to do this really. Advance 310 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 1: was able to do trumpsm without Trump a couple times 311 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: during that debate. You know, this sort of sunny midwestern guy. 312 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 1: He's not really midwestern, right, but he sort of became 313 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: kind of you know, he's a cipher, so he became 314 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: kind of Midwestern when he was with Walls, and you 315 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,199 Speaker 1: really did see a kind of you know, I'm just 316 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 1: a folksy guy who wants to monitor women's periods. And 317 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: I did feel like that line he has, which I 318 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: think works really well for him, is that liberals say 319 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: that if Donald Trump is president, everything is going to 320 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: be a nightmare. But Donald Trump was president before and 321 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: you're all still here, right, And some of those ideas 322 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: like where he sort of made this case that Trump 323 00:17:55,520 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: was saving Obamacare even though it's not true, olt like 324 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: he was able to put a plausible spin on it. 325 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,479 Speaker 6: Well he was, and that's you know, that's where you know, 326 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 6: we were disappointed the Walls didn't rebut that particularly that 327 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 6: thing about saying at Mountcare that was just insane. 328 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 2: And I mean amazingly demented and insane. 329 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 6: It was. So Vance is going to head back out 330 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 6: on the trail. I would presume he's going to go 331 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 6: back to talking the way he talked before this debate, right, 332 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 6: because that's that's what those audiences want to hear. They 333 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 6: don't they don't want to hear mister midwestern nice guy. 334 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 6: They don't want to hear a guy who expresses sympathy 335 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 6: to Tim Walls at the fact that his son saw 336 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 6: somebody get shot. They want somebody who breathes fire. 337 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 2: That was the mainstream pivot, right. 338 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 6: Yeah, they want somebody who breathes fire. And I think 339 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 6: he's kind of like returned to being that person in 340 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 6: pretty short order. 341 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: What scares me is that the mainstream pivot works, and 342 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: that one of the reasons why Trump is is having 343 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: so much trouble surviving is because of Trump, and that 344 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:07,360 Speaker 1: his policies, if given to someone who is more disciplined, 345 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: less in saying better pretending to be normal, could ultimately 346 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five could really end up being a 347 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: real thing. 348 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 6: Well, yes, but that's a problem for God on the road. 349 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 6: You know, right now our problem is Donald Trump. But 350 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 6: the pivot to normal can work. But you know, Romney 351 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 6: did a similar thing in the first debate in two 352 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 6: thousand and eight. He didn't become president. You know, it 353 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 6: depends on what the other side does with it. And 354 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 6: after that debate, Obama shaped up won the next two debates. 355 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 6: And also they've attacked Romney very successfully over baying capital 356 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 6: and they won comfortably. And I think, you know, Harris Harrison, 357 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 6: the Democrats can do the same thing. They have more 358 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 6: money than God. They can put whatever virtuals they want. 359 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 6: You know, there's not enough airtime in Michigan for them 360 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,479 Speaker 6: to spend all their money. They have so much money. 361 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 6: So as long as they do good ads and good 362 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 6: TikTok social media stuff, then you know, I think they 363 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 6: still ought to be able to define Trump in a 364 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 6: way that you know, Vance's performance last night will be 365 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 6: a distant memory by November fifth. 366 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Thank you so much, Mike Tamaski. I 367 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: hope you wilcome back. 368 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 6: Thank you anytime. 369 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: Are you concerned about Project twenty twenty five and how 370 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: awful Trump's second term could be. Well, so are we, 371 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: which is why we teamed up with iHeart to make 372 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: a limited series with the experts on what a disaster 373 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five would be for America's future. Right now, 374 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: we have just released the final episode of this five 375 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: episode series. They're all available by looking up Molly John 376 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 1: Fast Project twenty twenty five on YouTube. And if you 377 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: are more of a podcast person and not say a YouTuber, 378 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: you can hit play and put your phone in the 379 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: lock screen and it will play back just like the podcast. 380 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: All five episodes are online now. 381 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 2: We need to educate. 382 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: Americans on what Trump's second term would or could do 383 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: to this country, so please watch it and spread the word. 384 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: Harvard and MIT chaplain Greg Ebstein is the author of 385 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: tech Agnostic, How Technology became the world's most powerful religion 386 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: and why it desperately needs a reformation. Welcome Too Fast Politics, Greg, Thank. 387 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 4: You so much. Molly, it's so good to talk to you. 388 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: All right, you gotta tell us first of all, tell 389 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: us what you do. 390 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 2: And then you can tell us what your book is about. 391 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 4: My title is the Humanist Chaplain at Harvard and MIT, 392 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 4: so I serve those two universities. Chaplain is usually thought 393 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 4: of as a religious advisor, community leader, etc. But I'm 394 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 4: non religious. I'm an atheist. To the word that I 395 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 4: like best is humanists, and I serve the very large, 396 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 4: actually non religious communities at those institutions. 397 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: So you're a religious advisor for the non religious. 398 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I myself am non religious. It's unusual. When 399 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,719 Speaker 4: I first have it, got to Harvard to do this 400 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 4: work about twenty plus years ago, I was one of 401 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 4: the only humanist chaplains in North America, really one of 402 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 4: the only ones in the world other than a couple 403 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 4: places in Europe. And now I've completely lost track of 404 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 4: how many of us there are. It's a growing field 405 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 4: because the population of non religious people has just balloon 406 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 4: in the past couple decades. And there's a lot of 407 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 4: people who are not religious but want to live deeply meaningful, 408 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,719 Speaker 4: ethical lives, want to feel that they're part of a community, 409 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 4: want to make the world a better place. And humanism 410 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 4: is a word that I and a lot of other 411 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 4: people use to describe that approach to life. 412 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 2: Now, tell us about this book. 413 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 4: So I have a book coming out in about three 414 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 4: four weeks now. I've been working on it for five 415 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 4: six years. It's a follow up to my book Good 416 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 4: Without God, What a billion non religious people do believe. 417 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 4: But this book is called tech Agnostic, How technology became 418 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 4: the world's most powerful religion and why it desperately needs 419 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 4: a reformation. And so it's it's a fun book, but 420 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 4: it's also quite serious. It's a look at the fact 421 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 4: that tech, what you might call big tech, what you 422 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 4: might call this sort of mythological place of Silicon Valley, 423 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 4: has taken on this enormous role in our lives, in 424 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 4: our society, in our politics, that is so far beyond 425 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 4: now what you could possibly refer to as the thing 426 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 4: that most people refer to tech as, which is, you know, 427 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,479 Speaker 4: an industry, right, Like you say the tech and then 428 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 4: algorithmically you complete that phrase with industry. Right, it just 429 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 4: doesn't make any sense anymore, because there's no industry left 430 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,719 Speaker 4: on the face of the earth that isn't in some 431 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 4: way at least significant industry that isn't in some way 432 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 4: a tech industry. And so, having spent my life in 433 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 4: the world of religion, when I was asked to join 434 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 4: MIT as a chaplain, and I had this other role 435 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 4: that they gave me called convener for ethical life. Back 436 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen, I started thinking like yeah at MIT 437 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 4: at Mastersts Institute of Technology and Religion and non religious people, 438 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 4: and I realized, Oh, this thing that has taken over 439 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 4: my life has actually taken over most of our lives, 440 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 4: and it really, when you start to think about it, 441 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 4: actually can look like a religion. 442 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 443 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: I mean it reminds me of churches right in the 444 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: around the period of the Reformation. 445 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, you've got the symbols, you've got the prayerful rituals, 446 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 4: right like most religious people pray once a week, once 447 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 4: a day, three times a day, five times a day. 448 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 4: We genuflect before our stained glass black mirrors on average 449 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 4: a couple hundred times a day now. And it's not 450 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 4: a coincidence even that. You know, if you look at 451 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 4: somebody doing that, you know, opening their phone, it does 452 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 4: kind of look like they're worshiping and on. Like some 453 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 4: religions that I could name, because I'm not in any 454 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 4: way anti religious. I'm a chaplain. I work with people 455 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 4: who are religious all the time. But this particular religion, 456 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 4: you know, has a decent sized chance of causing some 457 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 4: kind of apocalypse. 458 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think that's a really good point. Jesus Christ. 459 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: Why have I never put this together before? The technology 460 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: is the new religion? 461 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there's a certain kind of humor to it, right, 462 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 4: Like when I talk to people about this, I say, well, 463 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 4: you know, am I literally saying that technology has become 464 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 4: the world's most powerful religion? Or you know, is this 465 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 4: whole book that I've written the most annoying extended metaphor 466 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 4: you've ever heard in your entire life? And you know, 467 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 4: the answer is yes, there's some of both meant. But 468 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 4: what I'm really getting at here is that not only 469 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 4: is this thing that we call tech now playing this 470 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 4: just sort of like minute to minute role in our lives, 471 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 4: where you know, everything that we do is some kind 472 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 4: of interface with tech. And I used to write about 473 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 4: tech addiction, but I stopped even thinking about it that way, 474 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 4: because it's it's not an addiction if every single person 475 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 4: that you know is doing it all the time equally 476 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 4: and you can't even quite turn it off, like there's 477 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 4: no way to opt out. But it's more than just that, Molly, 478 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 4: It's big tech, if you want to use that phrase, 479 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 4: has become dominated by some really weird ideas ideas that 480 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 4: when I look at it through my sort of studies 481 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 4: and religion lens look a lot like I mean, you 482 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 4: could call the mythology, right. A lot of people have 483 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 4: said that Silicon Valley has a kind of mythology to it. 484 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 4: But if somebody said, well, you know, Zeus has taken 485 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 4: over our culture, I mean, nobody would be particularly worried 486 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 4: about that, right. But if I told you that, like 487 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 4: fun to mentalist, Christianity was taking over, and I could 488 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 4: give you some evidence for that, you might legitimately have 489 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,360 Speaker 4: to be concerned, right. And so that's why I actually 490 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 4: think that the ideas that animate a lot of the 491 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 4: multi multi billionaires in Silicon Valley look more to me 492 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 4: like a kind of theology or a religious doctrine even 493 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 4: And you know it's worrisome because if and I'll give 494 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 4: you a couple of examples in a minute, obviously, but 495 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 4: you know it's worrisome because if most of the people 496 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 4: that are listening to this had a worry that their 497 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 4: friend or their family, or that they themselves were under 498 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 4: the spell of some kind of really weird sounding theological idea. 499 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 4: And again, you know, there are good theological ideas too, 500 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 4: plenty of them. But if you if you fell under 501 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 4: the spell of some weird ones, you would instinctively, almost 502 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 4: you know, intuitively know to question, right, what's the agenda 503 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,719 Speaker 4: behind this theological claim that you, the pope, the priest, 504 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 4: the Rabbi, the minister, imom whatever are making. But we 505 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 4: don't question the ideas that are underlying a lot of 506 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 4: big tech nearly enough when I started looking at, you know, 507 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 4: the role the tech is playing. I mean, just the 508 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 4: fastest example that comes to my mind. There's another book 509 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 4: out called AI Snake Oil that's written by two prominent 510 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 4: Princeton AI scholars, Sayash Kapoor and i Arvin Neraanan, and 511 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 4: you know, in it they talk about what AI can 512 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 4: and can't do. But they have an article on their 513 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 4: you know, blog about their book that they put out 514 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 4: a couple weeks ago, and it was titled AI companies 515 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 4: are pivoting from creating gods to building products good? And 516 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 4: you know, yeah, that is good, I guess. But if 517 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 4: they have to pivot from creating gods, that ought to 518 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 4: tell you something, right, this is what what most people 519 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 4: would agree, you know, is kind of our world's flagship 520 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 4: industry right now, right the most trending human endeavor right 521 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 4: now is trying to create AI and so you know 522 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 4: they're having to pay it from creating gods. That's a 523 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 4: little odd, that's a little scary, right, But it's more 524 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 4: than just that though. You know, I noticed comparisons that 525 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 4: I make in the book to you know, other major 526 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 4: religious doctrines, even like the ideas of heaven and Hell 527 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 4: of chosenness, which shows up obviously in Christian Gudeo Christian history, 528 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 4: a ton religious colonialism. It just goes on and on. 529 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, so connect this because tech Bros and not just Elon, 530 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,959 Speaker 1: but Andreas and Horowitzz, they're all in crew. All of 531 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: these people consider themselves to be and I think they 532 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: will eventually run for office. They all consider themselves right 533 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: now they have surrogates like JD. Vance and Bratt Masters, 534 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: but eventually I think they will get rid of the 535 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: surrogates and just do it themselves. So explain to me 536 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: what their ideology he is. 537 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's great because as you know, JD. 538 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 4: Vance is the acolyte of Peter til Right, He's really 539 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 4: nothing without Peter Tiel, who is this multi billionaire venture 540 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 4: capitalists founder who is a kind of right winger libertarian 541 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 4: that you know, is in many ways leading the charge 542 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 4: of the kinds of weird ideas that I detail in 543 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 4: my book and talk about, you know, why we ought 544 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 4: to be concerned by so. Peter Tiel, for example, on 545 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 4: his website the founder's fund up until at least now 546 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 4: you know, maybe they'll change it at some point, but 547 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 4: has talked about how for him, the ideal venture capitalist 548 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 4: I mean, or rather the ideal recipient a venture capital, 549 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 4: the ideal founder and a founder is a kind of 550 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 4: demigod in the Silicon Valley pantheon, right. The ideal founder 551 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 4: he you know, he says as a quote, has a 552 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 4: kind of near messianic attitude about the company or whatever 553 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 4: that he and it usually is he is founding. And 554 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 4: you know, if that's not enough, and you know, by 555 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 4: the way, like is that a good thing? Right? Usually 556 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 4: if somebody came up to you on the street and 557 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 4: told you that they have a near messianic attitude, you know, 558 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 4: you would run like the wind right in the other direction, 559 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 4: you know. And I had a guy named Russ Wilcox, 560 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 4: who teaches how to be a CEO here at Harvard 561 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 4: Business School, who talked to me on the record and 562 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 4: said that he agrees with this, and that he too 563 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 4: was looking for a kind of messianic complex in his founders. 564 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 4: Then you've got somebody like a Mark Andresen, right, you 565 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 4: know who you mentioned, who is so zealous that he 566 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 4: has a document called the Techno Optimists Manifesto that was 567 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 4: really popular when they put it up online, you know 568 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 4: a little while back. It uses the phrase, Molly, we believe. 569 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 4: He uses the phrase we believe one hundred and thirty 570 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 4: three times in a short document. Okay, And just to 571 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 4: give you one of so many quotes I could give 572 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 4: you from this this document, which is it's so theological. 573 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 4: I often begin my speeches to audiences with this document 574 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 4: and I tell them I'm going to quote from scripture. 575 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 4: He says, we believe any deceleration of AI will cost lives. 576 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 2: How would that even work? That's so insane. 577 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 4: It's not just insane, it's a very particular type of 578 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 4: insanity for somebody like myself, where I've been studying religion 579 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 4: my whole life. He says, we believe any deceleration of 580 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 4: AI will cost lives. Deaths that were preventable by the AI, 581 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 4: that was prevented from existing is a form of murder. Right. 582 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 4: So what he's doing here, First of all, he's taking 583 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 4: a line from abortion, right, He's taking the you know 584 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 4: that you have to be pro life, rigidly pro life. 585 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 4: He says essentially about bringing the AI into life, and 586 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 4: that when somebody tells you that if you don't do something, 587 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 4: that you're going to destroy the world, it's a classic 588 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 4: form of extremist religious manipulation that basically says, we're going 589 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 4: to take advantage of the fact that we know that you, 590 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 4: like any other normal, decent human being, you want to 591 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 4: be a moral person, you want to be a moral citizen. Again, 592 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 4: most people do. It's just sort of you know, human nature, 593 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 4: like we evolve to be selfish at times, but we 594 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 4: also really needed to evolve to be cooperative and care 595 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 4: about one another. Otherwise human beings don't get here to 596 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 4: this day. Right. So, but he's taking advantage of that 597 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 4: and saying like, if you don't obey our theology of 598 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 4: AI where we want you to invest, or we want 599 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 4: you to be part of our social project to invest 600 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 4: trillions of dollars in this thing, then you're murdering. You're 601 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 4: killing you know, you're terrible, right, And so that's a 602 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 4: sense of how religious this phenomenon actually is. 603 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: It's not bizarre, and it makes sense. And if you 604 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: track like the decline in religion in this country and 605 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: the assent of technology, it makes a lot of sense 606 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: what you're saying. 607 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 2: But I just never put it together. So now I'm scared. 608 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,839 Speaker 4: The thing that I would also want people to take 609 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 4: away from this is that when I'm making these criticisms 610 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 4: in the book and with you, like, I'm not anti technology, 611 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 4: I wouldn't even know how to try to make an 612 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 4: argument or to write a book that's anti technology, right, Like, 613 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 4: I get it. You know, I'm not saying that, you know, 614 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 4: we all need to go back to the days of 615 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,399 Speaker 4: you know, hovering around the fire. Right. What I am 616 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 4: saying is that we've gone a little too far in 617 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 4: our uncritical faith in any and every technology that comes along, 618 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 4: and we've forgotten to ask ourselves, you know, at times, 619 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 4: what agenda might be underlying, like our every day, every hour, 620 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 4: every minute reliance on this stuff. And so that what 621 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 4: I'm asking for is not like elimination of tech. It's 622 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 4: a reformation. You know, we need to improve our way 623 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 4: of thinking and acting around this stuff to. 624 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 1: Have some amount of guile to not take this as 625 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: necessarily all God. 626 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, so I'm a chaplain, right, I've spent 627 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 4: twenty plus years working alongside religious people of all kinds. Right, 628 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 4: there's fifty of us Harvard chaplains. There's about thirty of us, 629 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,320 Speaker 4: and I t chaplains. I've been in leadership roles, elected 630 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 4: and appointed in both settings. You know, I regularly work 631 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 4: with all kinds of religious people. I'm part of a 632 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 4: fellowship right now by a big interfaith organization called Interfaith 633 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 4: America called the Vote is Sacred fellowship where we're like 634 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 4: it's religious leaders and myself working from across the country 635 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 4: on how to strengthen and protect democracy. So there's great 636 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 4: people in these religious communities, and I learn from them 637 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 4: all the time that you know, my religious friends and 638 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 4: colleagues make me a better person sometimes with you know, 639 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 4: the ways that they interact with their families and their communities. Right. 640 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 4: But what I like is reformed religion, self critical religion. 641 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 4: I like Christians who know that Christianity isn't perfect, and 642 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 4: they know that it desperately needs to be critiqued. Sometimes. 643 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 4: I like Jews who are maybe religious or passionate about 644 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 4: their Judaism but they can recognize that Judaism isn't perfect. 645 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 4: They're not perfect. They need to be self critical. Israel 646 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 4: isn't perfect, We need to be critical of it sometimes, 647 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera. Right, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, the same thing, 648 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 4: even humanists, right like I tend to get into fights 649 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 4: with you know, my fellow atheists, people like Richard Dawkins 650 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 4: or Sam Harris or the late Christopher Hitchins if I 651 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 4: felt like they're being too anti religious, trying to act 652 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 4: like humanism. What I do is all perfect, all good. No. 653 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 4: And so it's a recognition that the more that this 654 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 4: Silicon Valley world becomes a kind of quasi religious institution, 655 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 4: the more we need to be critical of it. The 656 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 4: more we need to look at each new sort of 657 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 4: value and values proposition and say, like, is that real? 658 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 4: Can we really trust you, Sam Altman to be doing 659 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 4: open AI for the good of the world. Sam Altman 660 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 4: is going around now hat in hand, asking from some 661 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 4: of the worst people on earth, honestly, for literally millions 662 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 4: of dollars to build these data centers across America, each 663 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 4: of which is as powerful as several nuclear power plants. Right, 664 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 4: and like open Ai is a company that of course 665 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 4: famously started as a nonprofit and they just this past 666 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 4: week announced oh just kidding. All of the investment that 667 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 4: made us a multi multi billion dollar company was made 668 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 4: into a certain kind of company, but we were never 669 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 4: actually going to be that kind of company after all. 670 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 4: So you know, if you invested in us, or if 671 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 4: you trusted us, screw you. We're now for profit and 672 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 4: we want your trillion thank you, And so we need 673 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 4: to learn how to be more critical of people like 674 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 4: Altman in advances. 675 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 2: Right. No, it's a really good point. It's a really 676 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 2: really good point. Greg. I hope you will come back. 677 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,799 Speaker 4: Oh, it's a pleasure, Molly. You know, we first sort 678 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 4: of interacted at the beginning of the pandemic when I 679 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 4: was kind of doing online chaplaincy for some of my 680 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,839 Speaker 4: students on Twitter and LinkedIn because there was no way 681 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 4: to reach them in person, and you kind of gave 682 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 4: that a bit of a boost. You know. Something that 683 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 4: I'd said to one of the students, I guess was 684 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 4: moving to you. And it was so moving to me 685 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 4: to get to engage with you back then. And I'm 686 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 4: a huge fan. Thank you for what you do. 687 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 1: Oh, well, thank you for coming on and really so interesting. 688 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 2: I appreciate you. 689 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:40,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, I hope to see again sometime. No moment. 690 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 2: Jesse Cannon, Mai Jung Fast. 691 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 3: I have to tell you, one of the things I 692 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,799 Speaker 3: feel like is one of the most just we'll look 693 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 3: back as one of the more gross parts of our 694 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 3: society was having our safety net be GoFundMe. And because 695 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,439 Speaker 3: it's one of the more gross parts of society, guess 696 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 3: you just waded into it. 697 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: Well, you know, the guy who wants to end federal 698 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 1: disaster relief and many of the things that the federal 699 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: government does just started a disaster relief go fund me 700 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:20,920 Speaker 1: page for people who have been affected by this monster hurricane. 701 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 1: It's tacky, but it's also like, the federal government exists. 702 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,320 Speaker 1: We pay taxes so that we can help these people. Certainly, 703 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: raising extra money is good, but I think it's worth 704 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: realizing that Donald Trump could easily make a donation to 705 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 1: this area or purchase something to give to people like 706 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: paper Tels just kidding, not paper Tells, But he instead 707 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: decided to raise money from his people. Again, Donald Trump 708 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,760 Speaker 1: has taken a lot of money from his people. So 709 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,399 Speaker 1: the fact that he's trying to take more is really disgusting, 710 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 1: and that is our moment of fucker. That's it for 711 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, 712 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 1: and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes 713 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,919 Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, 714 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 715 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.