1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: In January of two thousand, Ian Jacobs traveled alone from 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: the UK to Catao for a diving vacation. On January fifteenth, 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: the thirty five year old's body was discovered in an 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: above ground well situated off a dirt road. His neck 5 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: was broken. The police's theory was that a drunken Ian 6 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: had been attempting to walk back to his bungalow when 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: he stumbled into the well and died. However, as Ian's 8 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: friends continued to look into his death, they discovered that 9 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: Ian had recently loaned money to local ti men. Local 10 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: police allegedly told those friends to leave the island as 11 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: soon as possible. Was this cryptic warning a sign that 12 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: something nefarious had happened to Ian? Two years later, a 13 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: man named mister Bann founded one of the most popular 14 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: diving schools in the world. In early February of two 15 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: thousand and two, mister Bann was speaking with three friends 16 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: on the popular Sarre Beach. A lone man approached, wearing 17 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: a balaclava which covered everything but his eyes. Mister Band 18 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: was shot to death six times at close range. His 19 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: friends were left stunned covered in mister Band's blood. Some 20 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: say it was over a gambling debt. Some say it 21 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: was an assassination ordered by a local businessman. Welcome to 22 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: Death Island a production of Katie Studios and iHeartRadio, Episode three, 23 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: The Cases of Ian Jacob and Mister Bann. I'm Connor Powell, 24 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 1: an investigative journalist at Katie Studios with Stephanie Lydecker, Courtney Armstrong, 25 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: Andrew Arnow and Jeff Shane. Tell me about mister b 26 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: Who was he, when was he killed? What did he operate? 27 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: He had a thig dive school in the middle of 28 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: Sire Beach and at the time he had dives were 29 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: the only ones that had an IDC and Instructor development course, 30 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: so you could do all of your courses with the 31 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: other dive schools, but to become a scuba dive instructor 32 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: you had to go through Bans. Yeah, they're one of 33 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 1: the biggest dive schools in the world. But he was 34 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: an inveterate gambler and he used to gamble with Mon 35 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: from Good of You, which is the other side of 36 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: the island, and then him and Mon fell out and 37 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: the next thing I was I was at home and 38 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: my friend came to my house like covered in brain 39 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 1: and blood and he's like Jesus Christ, like mister Bann 40 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: has just been assassinated in broad daylight by someone wearing 41 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: a balaclava. Varat a shan vin nonn Katao as mister 42 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: Ban was forty two years old when he was gunned 43 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: down in broad daylight. He was shot while speaking with 44 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: three friends near Surrey Beach. A lone gunman walked right 45 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: up to mister Ban and shot him six times. And 46 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, mister Ban's death was the 47 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: beginning of a new era in Katao. While working on 48 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: this podcast, our investigation into the island has uncovered dozens 49 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: of mysterious deaths, but mister banns appeared more straightforward than 50 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: most of the other cases. We will explore. He was 51 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: murdered in broad daylight? And was this a business dispute? 52 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: Was this a gambling dispute? Gambling? Soup Buchanan lived in 53 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: Thailand when mister Ban was murdered. She wrote the book 54 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 1: The Curse of the Turtle, The True story of Thailand's 55 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: backpacker murders. She says that there was a local man 56 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: known as Quote the Butcher on the island who was 57 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: convicted for the murder of mister Bann, but many people 58 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: believe that the butcher was ordered to kill mister Ban 59 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: by a powerful katab businessman. So the butcher went to 60 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: prison and he's still being paid, like he's been paid 61 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: to go at prison, but it was organized it but 62 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: left the island and he's never returned to the island. 63 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: He's never been allowed back to the island after that. 64 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: The words you know, I have no idea, but he's 65 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: still maintains I mean it sounds like you can be 66 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: sort of a sent away but you still control your 67 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: business empire. Yeah, but I mean that happens at the 68 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: businessman allegedly ordered the murder of mister Ban over a 69 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: gambling dispute, yet still maintained his business interests on the island. 70 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: Who was this other businessman and why was he not 71 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: investigated further by the local police. I want to go 72 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: back to the Serry Beach. This isn't some remote island 73 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: beach on Kotau, right, I mean, Sorry Beach is the 74 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: main spot, right, main spot. You couldn't do anything on 75 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: Sorry Beach without being seen. So it's very possible that 76 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: there are multiple people who see this murder. It's impossible 77 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: for them not to have done. That's like murdering someone 78 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: in Piccadinny Circus or Time Square and saying there's no witnesses. 79 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: We connected with a former employee of mister Bann for 80 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: their protection. They've asked that we not reveal their identity, 81 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: and we've altered their voice. Will refer to them as 82 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: Bill going forward. Bill lived on Katao in the late 83 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties. He explained that there were a few main 84 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: families on the island that essentially ran all the businesses, 85 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,799 Speaker 1: and mister Bann was head of one of those families. 86 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: The people I've talked to who were there in their 87 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: early days talk about mister Bann as the guy who 88 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: kind of created kataw as we knew it is that 89 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: fairy Yeah, you could say that for sure. I mean, 90 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 1: he definitely helped to mold things a certain way on Kotow. 91 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: His dive school became, I think the biggest dive school 92 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: and the most influential. Mister band gave Bill an opportunity 93 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: to work at one of his many businesses and said 94 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: he would look out for him. Was it a pretty 95 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: well run organization? I mean, did he run a good business. 96 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: He was so sweet. He just said, yeah, just give 97 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: me a cut, you know, thirty percent or whatever. It 98 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: was that we made a deal with him for we 99 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: could do whatever we wanted. Basically, we were under his protection. 100 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: If you have a fallout with one of the main guys, 101 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: you know, you got to watch yourself. And so the 102 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: offer from mister Bann was a blessing because I mean 103 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: there was no one else who could have actually offered 104 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: that sort of protection to start something. So yeah, it 105 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: was it was a blessing. So there was one guy, 106 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: for example, that I can't remember his name. He was 107 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: kind of like one of the mafia guys that mister 108 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: Ban hired at some point to look over us. You know, 109 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: we called him the hit man. Was there sort of 110 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: a handful of people who ran the island at that time. 111 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: I mean they made the decisions about what's going on. 112 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: I mean, this is the thing that sort of blows 113 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: my mind about this little tiny island. The story that 114 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: we were told was that there was a guy that 115 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: was arrested for killing mister Ban, but that the person 116 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: behind it was this other chieftain type guy who ran 117 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: another dive company. Yeah, that's how the rooms went. Were 118 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: you there when that happened? Oh well, yeah, so when 119 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: mister Bean gets killed. But it described it to me 120 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: as sort of like an earthquake on coat out in 121 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: that little community because he had been so powerful. Yeah, 122 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: I mean it was a pretty shocking moment. I mean, 123 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: obviously some real kind of sadness that also, I guess 124 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: a realization of how fragile things were there on the island. 125 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: After that event, we had to keep our wits about 126 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: us a little more. We were being a bit more careful, 127 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: and we were we were having more troubles, more issues 128 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: with the mafia and whatnot coming into our bar. And 129 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: and I mean we even though we were paying our dues, 130 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,239 Speaker 1: we were paying the local boys, paying the police as well. 131 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: You know, you have to pay everyone out bits and pieces. 132 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: But you know, at the end of the day, there 133 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: was less kickbacks when we were working with mister Van 134 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: because he kind of just had that you know, autonomy there. 135 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: So with him not there, it felt like, you know, 136 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: the wild was kipped in a bit. More people were 137 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: strutting their stuff a bit more than they could all 138 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: would beforehand. So we were starting to really fill the 139 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: pinch because then we'd had a really massive party and 140 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: it looked great from the outside. People were going, Wow, 141 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: what a great party. You must have made hicks of money. 142 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: And then we were counting our money and then we'd like, okay, 143 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: we got to pay this guy here, Pitt's play this 144 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: guy there. And by the time we paid all our dues, 145 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: it's like we've got enough to go out for dinner. 146 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: It sounds like Kotau when you were there, was rapidly 147 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: developing and went from just a sort of dive location 148 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: to a party scene. And at the same time there's 149 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: a ton of money, but nobody's actually making money. Who's 150 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: doing the business. It sounds like everybody's paying out. Yeah, absolutely, 151 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: So it just became this kind of vicious circle, and 152 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: you know, it was getting frustrating too. And then one 153 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: day one of the Matthew guys was being relentless at 154 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 1: our bark. He kept asking for more and more free drinks, 155 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: and at one point and he was just pissing. Thought. 156 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: We said, now, come on, man, that you've had enough, 157 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: and then he got his gun out and started shooting 158 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: his gun into the bar. And that at that stage 159 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: I just realized, hold on, I'd come to this island 160 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: and started here because it was an idealliic place to 161 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: be in and then now it's like, my life's in danger. 162 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: So that that was a pivotal point where we decided, 163 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: you know what, let's let's head to Australia and take 164 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: some time out and then rethink this through. And and 165 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: that was literally the end of our business time there, 166 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: because what year is this when you left two thousand 167 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: and four. It's not like it's a totally dangerous place 168 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: where you know, you're lucky to get out alive, as 169 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: they make it out in some reports. But definitely there's 170 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: this kind of, you know, this old school mafia kind 171 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: of vibe, this attitude of some of the locals of 172 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: just you know, this is our place, we run it, 173 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: and no one's going to tell us what to do. Well, 174 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: how are we going to do it? And if they 175 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: get in the way too much and anyway, and then 176 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: we'll do whatever we need to do to remove them. Yeah, 177 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: all the deaths on Kotao are sort of shocking for 178 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: different reasons, but mister Banns is particularly shocking because in 179 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: the late nineteen nineties early two thousand he was really 180 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: the king of Kotao and I think we have to 181 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: sort of put in perspective how important he was to 182 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: the island that is now Kotao. You know, for a 183 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: lot of years Kotao it was a prison, It was 184 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: sort of an empty island. There really wasn't anything, but 185 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: it has beautiful scubad iving, incredible reefs, very easy coastal 186 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: areas to scuba dive off of it. Mister Bannon is 187 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: really the guy who helped bring scuba diving to Kotao, 188 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: which transformed the island from really nothing, you know, just 189 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: a rock out in the middle of the ocean, to 190 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: what it is today, which is a massive tourist destination. 191 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 1: And he was really the k of Kotao in the 192 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: late nineties early two thousands. But he also apparently liked 193 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: to gamble, according to what people have told us, And 194 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: he was shockingly killed in the sort of middle paradise 195 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: in front of lots of witnesses. He was shot, and 196 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: no one seems to have Billington eye. With the exception 197 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: of the odd story here and there, it was kept 198 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: relatively quiet and the tourists just kept on coming. That's Andrew, 199 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: one of the producers on this podcast. I think one 200 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: of the things that's really interesting is that mister Band's 201 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: business didn't even suffer. It was transferred, as we understand, 202 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: to his son into some other family members, and for 203 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,839 Speaker 1: a lot of years, mister Band's dive school has been 204 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: one of the biggest, if not the biggest dive school 205 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: in terms of certifications, not only in Asia but really 206 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:53,599 Speaker 1: in around the world. I mean, that's how big of 207 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 1: business it's turned into. Just people kept coming and coming. 208 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: And obviously most people go to Kotao if never of 209 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: mister Band, you know, they don't know how he was killed. 210 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: But you know, we've talked to a couple of people 211 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: who were on the island who knew about mister Band, 212 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: who were aware of him, and even though his death 213 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 1: was shocking, it didn't shock the island. Nothing changed. I mean, 214 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: the party really didn't stop this place, right. It really 215 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: seems to you know, get its clause into you, and 216 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 1: once it does, these people just really don't want to leave. 217 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: People love it there. We've had a couple different people 218 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: to describe it as like the wild wild West. And 219 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: if we start the modern day Kotau experience, sometime in 220 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: the late nineties, early two thousands, you know, mister Band's 221 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: death is sort of the first big death murder on 222 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: the island, and he was murdering. He was literally assassinated 223 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: in the street. And you know, the progress of the 224 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: wild Wild West just continues. You know, people keep flooding in, 225 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: people keep coming to dive hotels are built, the culture 226 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: or the industry of the paradise continues to grow. It's 227 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: almost like mister Band's death as a signal to anyone 228 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: who was involved in Koto that you're pretty much going 229 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: to be able to get away with whatever you want. 230 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: Because if one of the preeminent people on the island 231 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 1: can be gunned down in broad daylight on the street, 232 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: you're going to have an increase in some of these 233 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: unexplained mysterious deaths over the course of the next five, ten, 234 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: fifteen years. And I feel like mister Bann's assassination in 235 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: the middle of the street sets the tone for everything 236 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: we see coming forward out of what Kotal becomes. Let's 237 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: stop here for a break, we'll be back in a moment. 238 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: In the early two thousands, more incidents were occurring on 239 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: the island, which the locals and expats both seem to 240 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: be turning a blind eye. Two two years prior to 241 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: mister Bann's assassination, there was another questionable death on Katao. 242 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: Once we really started digging in here in our research, 243 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: we came up with a story that we found taking 244 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: place before any of the other stories. That's Andrew Again, 245 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: a producer on this podcast. Around the time of mister 246 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: Band's assassination, there is a backpacker who was found dead, 247 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: stuffed into a cement pipe in the ground, and every 248 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: person who was interviewed about what happened said the same thing. 249 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: He probably went to go pee and fell in. So 250 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: Ian Jacobs was a traveler who came from the UK. 251 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: He went to Thailand for vacation for diving. You know, 252 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: that's a time when like hardcore divers who just wanted 253 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: to dive in vacation were coming to Kotao around two 254 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: thousand and the official sort of story as well, he 255 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: fell into this well and that's how he died, but 256 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: that's not really what other people have described. We spoke 257 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: with one of Ian's friends from college, Mick Lark. My 258 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: name is Michael Locke. I'm a British citizen. I'm a 259 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: friend of Ian Jacobs who who died kota tell me 260 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: about Ian. Tell me about how you knew him, Tell 261 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: me about who he was as a person. We met 262 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: when we were at Bristol Polytechnic, so when we were 263 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: eighteen years old. We hit it off. We shared a 264 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: love of football, of music. We went on a few 265 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: travels together. He had a lot of friends, very much loved, 266 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: I have to say, you know, he was very amusing, 267 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: very charming, a lot fun. Yeah, he was a really 268 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: fun guy and I knew him until he died. We 269 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: were very close friends until until he went to Kotawan 270 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: in two thousand when he was thirty five. How did 271 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: you guys end up going to Thailand? We didn't go together. 272 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: He went to Thailand. I went to India. We both 273 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: hatched a plan to go babling after the Millennium. We 274 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: worked together on the Millennium Evening. There was a big 275 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: party in Bristol organized by a friend of ours in 276 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: the in the Mains where in Bristol divive music and everything, 277 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: and our friend asked us to do a food store, 278 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: a food bar. Being got together. We rented a burgh 279 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: of vm we sold food all night and with the 280 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: money we pocketed on that very auspicious night, the Millennium night. 281 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: We decided to go traveling. He went to Thailand. I 282 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: went to India. I was more into India. He wanted 283 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: to go and do a diving course in Kotown. He 284 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: had been there once before. He'd been to a wedding 285 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: in Thailand a friend of a friend got married the 286 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: year before, so he'd gone out there and they'd been 287 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: to Kotao and done a basic I think, and then 288 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: he fell in love with the place and decided he 289 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: wants to go back and get his PADDY certificates. PADDY 290 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: stands for the Professional Association of Diving Instructors. They train 291 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: and certify scuba divers all around the world. You have 292 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: to be a very strong swimmer to get a certification. 293 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: And how did you hear about his death? Yeah, so 294 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,719 Speaker 1: I left to go to India about a week after 295 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: he'd gone to Thailand, and I was setching a bus 296 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: up to him Alayas and checked my emails and I 297 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: had an email from a mutual friend of ours in England. 298 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: He told me he was he was dead, simple as that. 299 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: I was completely dumbfound its completely shocked, you know, in 300 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: a state of it wasn't really sadness. It was shocked, 301 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: you know, absolutely disbelief. I gleaned more information and I 302 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: found out he was being cremated in about a week's 303 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: time in Bangkok. So I decided that I was going 304 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,479 Speaker 1: to get on a plane and go to Bangkok and 305 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: go to his cremation. What did you hear was the 306 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: cause of death? But we were told he had died 307 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: from a blow to the head. But he was found 308 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: at the bottom of a well, and I thought, okay, 309 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: is it possible for someone to have stumbled ahead and 310 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: fallen in the well and drowned. It's a little hard 311 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: to make out, but make a saying, is it possible 312 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: for someone to have stumbled along, hid their head and 313 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 1: fell into a well and drowned. I was under the 314 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: impression that he didn't die from drowning. Me his friends 315 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: in England had no doubt straight away. There was never 316 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: a moment's doubt that he was murdered. I don't think 317 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: even across our mind that it was accidental. We suspected 318 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: foul play from from the beginning. Why did you suspect 319 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 1: that from the beginning? I can't remember why, but there 320 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: was just this consensus amongst that something was not right 321 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: and That is why, after I went to the cremation 322 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: in and Cock, I decided to go to Kotau. And 323 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: remember how I was thinking of it in my head. 324 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: I wanted to prove to myself that he couldn't have 325 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: fallen into the well and hit his head on the 326 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 1: way down. That was my purpose of going to Kotau. 327 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: How quickly did you get to Kotao after his death? 328 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: It must have been within two weeks. I think the 329 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: cremation was probably a week after his death, and then 330 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: I went straight from the cremation down to Kotao. So yeah, 331 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: within two weeks, I think I was there, spoken as there, 332 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: all of whom thought there was something suspicious. I went 333 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: to the police. I made an excuse to go to 334 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,199 Speaker 1: the police. I wanted to have an excuse to go 335 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: to them. So my excuse to go into the police 336 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: was I wanted his possessions because I knew he'd had 337 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: money on him, because you don't go traveling without money. 338 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: So I asked the police what happened to all his money. 339 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 1: They told me they'd taken his money to pay for 340 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: transportation back to the mainland. When police told Mick how 341 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: they used Ian's money, his suspicions were raised, but they 342 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: also had questions about the well that Ian supposedly fell into. 343 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: I went to the well, and the aperture of the 344 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: world was so small. If you walked along and tripped 345 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: over its rim, you would fall over the world. He 346 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't fall down. There was just no way that one 347 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: could stumble and fall into the world. So my suspicions 348 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: were confirmed. I suppose the well is the big question here. 349 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: Tie police on Katao reported that Ian was drunk and 350 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: looking for a police to urinate. Allegedly he had fallen 351 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: into well, hit his head on the way down, and drowned. 352 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: I'd say the well was a few feet across three feet. 353 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: It wasn't big enough to just fall in unless someone 354 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: pushed you in it. From what Mix saw, there was 355 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: no way an adult human could fall down the well 356 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: on their own. He returned to his hotel and came 357 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: back the next day to take photos of the well, 358 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: which he said a body would have to be folded 359 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: into to fit into. I went back to take photos 360 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: and the well had been bulldozed over. There were just 361 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: mounds of sand everywhere. That obviously made me even more suspicious. 362 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: Mick returned to the Catau police station a second time 363 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: after my first visit to the police, but the police 364 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 1: told me to come back in a few days time 365 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: there when the chief of police from Copang Gang, the 366 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 1: neighboring island, would be there. On my return the second time, 367 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: the chief of police from Copang Gang, he said there's 368 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: a fairy leaving in the morning and that I should 369 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: be on it. The police officers essentially, well, I just 370 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: want to be clear, because the police officers actually threatened 371 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: you to get off the island. Yes, yes, absolutely, that's 372 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: what he did. Did you have a feeling that there 373 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: was dodginess sort of around the police at that point 374 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: or did that come out of the blue when that happened. 375 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 1: Were you stunned? I mean, what was your thought wrong? 376 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: I mean, because we all assumed it was a murder 377 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: and we the police were saying it was an accident. 378 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: I knew that there was a cover up by the 379 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: police even at that point, and the more I looked 380 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: at the police reports, the more my feeling about that 381 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,479 Speaker 1: as reinforced. We'll get back to the police reports, but 382 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: remember the story that the Catau police told about Ian's 383 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: death hinged on the fact that he was found at 384 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: the bottom of a well. We all believe the story 385 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: that he was found in a well for fourteen years 386 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: until I had conversations with Susan Buchanan. She told me 387 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: that he wasn't found at the bottom of a well 388 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: at all, and she says he was found inside a 389 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: piece of concrete pipe. Now, it's the same sort of 390 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: piping they used for welles. They bury concrete pipes into 391 00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: the ground to make the wealth. But this was just 392 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: a bit of concrete pipe and the earth inside was 393 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: at ground level and he was just inside one of those. 394 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: If what Sue told Mick was true, then Ian was 395 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: found in a piece of concrete pipe that was standing up, 396 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: not even installed in the ground. Yet. If the story 397 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: told by Gatou police was fiction, what happened to Ian? 398 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 1: Mick has some thoughts like what else could have happened? 399 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: I mean, my feeling is that if, for example, if 400 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: some tie guy was hitting on a Western girl and 401 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: she wasn't enjoying it, even if he didn't know her, 402 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: he's the sort of guy until the tiger to get off, 403 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: that was the sort of guy he was when he 404 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: was done. Yeah, And that is my feeling that possibly 405 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: that happened. He wasn't that aggressive, you know, but he 406 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: would be protected. He was, literally, but in a nice way. 407 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: But if someone did something that he didn't agree with, 408 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 1: he would make his feelings clear. You know. He wouldn't 409 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: go looking for fighting. You never fight in his life. 410 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: But at the same time, he was outspoken enough to 411 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: stick up for people, and he wouldn't He wouldn't stand 412 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: for any ship. What we've heard is that, like you know, 413 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: essentially there's a history of violence on the island. People 414 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: are scared and don't really want to disrupt their own 415 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: personal paradise exactly, and it just sort of looked the 416 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: other way as long as it doesn't happen to me. Absolutely. 417 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: I did speak to some people in the guest house 418 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: that I stayed at, which I same guest out he'd 419 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: stayed at, and I do remember people saying, oh no, 420 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: that they thought it was suspicious. They thought he was murdered, 421 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: but that's it. Nobody said anything about who might have 422 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: done it or anything like that. Could Ian have stuck 423 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: up for someone in the bar that led to him 424 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: being murdered. Connor speaks to Soup Buchanan about what she 425 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: thinks of the theory, and is that something they could 426 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: get you killed? Oh? Hell yeah, you can look at 427 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: someone in Thailand the wrong way and it would get 428 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: you killed. I mean, yeah, it doesn't take much. Mick 429 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: went back to the police reports to try and find 430 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: answers about Ian Staff. Did you see two different autopsies 431 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: police reports. I've got the police reports in front of me. Yeah. 432 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: So this is the mystery of the whole thing. There 433 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: was an autopsy which took part place in Kopangang, the 434 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: island next to Kotao, which says he died from drowning 435 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: and that he was completely disfigured from having spent three 436 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: days in the well before the body was found. You know, 437 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: there's a big story, the police stories about him having 438 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: had ropes tied to him to be pulled out of 439 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: a four meter deep well. And then there's another autopsy 440 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: from Bangkok which makes no mention of his being in 441 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: water at all. You think that would be a fairly 442 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: obvious thing. And the autopsy from Bangkok says he died 443 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: from the head. So there's basically the autopsy say different things, 444 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: which probably means the one in Bangkok with some distance, 445 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: some space and hopefully more professional. Ye absolutely, hold on, 446 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: Here is cause of death. This is the Bangkok one, 447 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 1: bleeding in the brain due to severe impact at the head. 448 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: Now the Copang Gang autopsy does mention scratches on the head, 449 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: but says that he died from drowning. And you said 450 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: that his mother always believed that he was murdered, but 451 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: you didn't find that out till years later. The family 452 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 1: ever said to you had that suspicion. So I never 453 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: met his mother after Inn's death. The word I was 454 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: getting was that the family believed the official police story 455 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: and didn't want anything made of it. This is why 456 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: so much time passed before gone public with us, because 457 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: we believe that the family just wanted to lay it 458 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: to rest. It was only about five years ago I 459 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: finally met his mother. She lives in Scotland. I was passing, 460 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: so I went to see her one day. And if 461 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: I didn't want to be the person that said to 462 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 1: his mother, you, we think you're Inn was murdered. You know, 463 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 1: if you're sitting there in your old age believing your 464 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: son met an accidental death, we probably don't want to 465 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: be someone to go along and tell you that he 466 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: was murdered. You know, I wasn't going to be the 467 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: person that upset her like that. So anyway I went 468 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,120 Speaker 1: and saw her. We got chatting, so eventually I said, 469 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: what do you think happened? And she just said straight up, oh, 470 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: he was murdered. And then it was like, okay, so 471 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: I don't need to be secret for about anymore. So 472 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: we had a long chat. She said she'd read the 473 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: police reports, the ones that I've got here sat in 474 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: front of me, and she said they just didn't had him. 475 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: And she mentioned the witness reports. And again if you 476 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: read the witness reports, they are suspicious. They're not eyewitnesses. 477 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: One is from a doctor, one from the village head. 478 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 1: One is from the taxi driver who met in on 479 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: the night he died. But they all sort of says 480 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: believe the cause of death was most likely because the 481 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: tourists was on his way to urinate and happened to 482 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: fall down the well. And then another one it's believed 483 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: that the cause of death was that the man was 484 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: drunk and on his way to urinate. The edge of 485 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: the well was oh, the man who noticed it and 486 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: happened to fall down the well. Third one, the witness 487 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: that the cause of death was because the tourist was 488 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: on his way to urinate but unfortunately happened to fall 489 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 1: down the well. It doesn't add up. They will say 490 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: exactly the same thing slightly different ways. You know. One 491 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: of the things that we've come across is that there's 492 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: an emphasis of the Thai police to always blame the 493 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: person who dies on Kotao, that the deaths as a 494 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: result of their own action. And I think that you 495 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: see that really clear in these witness statements. Right, he 496 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: was drunk, he fell down. Yeah, he did this to 497 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: himself as absolutely, even when it says it's unlikely that 498 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: he was attacked since the area had no trace of fighting. Now, 499 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: if you really think someone's fallen into a well, why 500 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: do you even need to say that. I mean, this 501 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: is long before the island has this reputation. I can 502 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: understand them saying that today, but in two thousands years 503 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,959 Speaker 1: before anyone has any bad feelings about Kotao. But of 504 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: course they put that in there because they're trying to 505 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: deflect from what probably happened. Absolutely, Is there anything else 506 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: you want to add? As I say the slam dunk, 507 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 1: let's say, is what Susan's this? You know, the fact 508 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: that he wasn't even found in the well. You can 509 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: analyze the police reports as much as you want, you 510 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: heard them with a fine teeth comb. But when you 511 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 1: hear what Susanne says, I she's telling no reason to disbeliever, 512 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: then you might as well just tear up the police 513 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: reports because they all refer to a man who was 514 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: found at the bottom for well in water. And if 515 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: you believe Susan, there was no well. There was no water. 516 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: Now whether they the police found his body and then 517 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: threw it in the well, because I mean, they're going 518 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: into good detail about the depth of the well and 519 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: how they got the body out of the well, and 520 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: how the body looked because it had been in the 521 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: well for so long. Yeah, I mean this is a 522 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: continuing pattern of what you're describing. This isn't like a 523 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: one off thing. This is something we keep hearing time 524 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: and time and time again, which is police essentially blaming 525 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: the victim for their death and then also the same 526 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: time putting in information that doesn't make any logical sense 527 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: of to how somebody dies. Yeah, the police are acting 528 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,479 Speaker 1: light there, untouchable that they can make up any story 529 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: and then nothing will come back to the police. Let's 530 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: stop here for another break. Since high authorities Uncle Tao 531 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: considered Ian's death an accident, there was never a proper investigation. 532 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: But there are lots of questions. Why do all the 533 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: witness statements sound so eerily similar, as if coordinated. How 534 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: would any of them know that Ian was urinating when 535 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: he fell into the well? Connor debriefed with Andrew after 536 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: the interview with Mick, No questions asked, no investigation, Let's 537 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: not get to the bottom of this. And so you know, 538 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: in early two thousand, you've got both of these deaths 539 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: with mister Bann and Ian Jacobs, and they're both you know, 540 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: I think they set that signal, They set that sort 541 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: of anything will go on this island because the only 542 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: thing that's important is keeping tourists coming here, keeping the 543 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: money flowing, keeping the divers coming, keeping the people going 544 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: to resorts. And you know, nobody on Kotau, really, no 545 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: one in Thailand was interested in even asking questions about 546 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: Ian Jacobs, and you know, staying with mister Van and 547 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: we don't have much on these because it's been twenty 548 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: two years since it happened. However, the information that we 549 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: can gather from these is stage setting. It's setting the 550 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: precedent for strange and mysterious deaths with no explanations given 551 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: at all, and when any explanation is given, the explanation 552 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: given by TIE authorities or contradictory. As early as two thousand, 553 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: we see major differences between the autopsy reports done by 554 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: the mainland police in Bangkok versus what the Catau police 555 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: report says, so which one is the truth? And the 556 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: eyewitness statements, which may have been fabricated, show a clear 557 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: pattern of blaming the victim and covering up the true 558 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: cause of death. Jonathan Samuel's is a reporter for Sky News. 559 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: He has covered some of the deaths and crimes in Catao. 560 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: Tourism is so important to Thailand, I mean hugely important, 561 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: and I think the last thing the Thai government wants 562 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: are these sort of stories going around the world, and 563 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: they will do almost anything it takes to make sure 564 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: they don't and to try and sort of wrap things 565 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: up in such a way that it doesn't make the 566 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: ties be put up for this, because it would look 567 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: so bad for Thailand about protecting their tourism industry and 568 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: the huge amount of money it brings in the mysterious 569 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: deaths of mister Bann and I and Jacobs, and the 570 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: lack of proper investigations into those deaths sets the stage 571 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: for the next twenty years. It's a refrain that will 572 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: become more and more pronounced over the years. Someone dies 573 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: Thaie authorities dismiss it as an accident and blame the 574 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: victim or find a scapegoat to cover it up. And 575 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: this is just the start of it. And I think 576 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: that lack of governance, that lack of professionalism, that hint 577 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: of suspicion of corruption amongst the police. When you couple 578 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: that with young people doing things to excess, experimenting, acting 579 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: in a way that perhaps they wouldn't act if they 580 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: were at home, then those two things coming together can 581 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: be disastrous. If you have any information about Ian Jacobs 582 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: or mister Bann, please contact us at producers at Katie 583 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: dask studios dot com for more information and relevant photos. 584 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. Death Island 585 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Connor Powell, Andrew Arnow, Jeff Shane, 586 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: Chris Cacaro, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong, editing and 587 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: sound designed by Jeff Tis, music by Vanacore Music. Death 588 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: Island is production of iHeartRadio and KAT Studios. For more 589 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 590 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.