WEBVTT - Regrets, I've Had a Slew 0:00:23.430 --> 0:00:27.319 Back in February, I participated in a podcasting festival called 0:00:27.590 --> 0:00:30.319 On Air Fest that took place in Brooklyn, New York. 0:00:31.140 --> 0:00:34.880 Whereas I'm usually the one helping a stranger confront their deepest, 0:00:35.019 --> 0:00:39.559 most uncomfortable regrets, on this occasion, I turned the spotlight 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:43.940 on myself, live on stage. And because we recorded the 0:00:43.989 --> 0:00:47.590 whole thing, you, Dear listeners can journey back in time 0:00:47.930 --> 0:00:53.190 to experience my dangerously personal self-interrogation from the safety of 0:00:53.230 --> 0:00:53.990 your earbuds. 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.220 And that's all coming up after the break. 0:01:04.310 --> 0:01:08.530 Okay, welcome back to the space. So after a decade 0:01:08.850 --> 0:01:12.350 of sharing other people's regrets on the acclaimed and beloved 0:01:12.390 --> 0:01:16.900 podcast Heavyweight, host Jonathan Goldstein looks back on his own 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:21.360 regrets making the show. Revisiting 10 years worth of stories 0:01:21.420 --> 0:01:25.340 and tape, Jonathan reflects on his work and then opens 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:26.959 it up for an audience Q & A with his 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:31.470 producers Kalilah Holt and Stevie Lane. So please welcome Jonathan Goldstein. 0:01:31.490 --> 0:01:31.570 Woo! 0:01:45.550 --> 0:01:46.850 Thank you. 0:01:49.750 --> 0:01:53.890 And so you are wondering, what are the personal regrets 0:01:53.990 --> 0:01:57.270 of a man who traffics in the regrets of others? 0:01:59.340 --> 0:02:00.560 What might a man who. 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:04.820 Receives to his inbox each day countless why didn't I's, 0:02:05.260 --> 0:02:08.240 what I should have's, and why did I eat that? 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.020 A man for whom other people's regrets are the mud 0:02:12.079 --> 0:02:15.970 in which he ruts like a motherless sow. What might 0:02:16.049 --> 0:02:20.930 such a man's inner hellscape look like? Well, not to 0:02:20.970 --> 0:02:23.350 make this all about me, but since I do have 0:02:23.390 --> 0:02:26.470 a microphone and you are seated in chairs facing in 0:02:26.530 --> 0:02:31.429 my direction, I will say this. The reason I created 0:02:31.490 --> 0:02:34.310 a show like Heavyweight is because of my own capacity 0:02:34.370 --> 0:02:38.410 for regret. As a suckling baby, I'm certain I regretted 0:02:38.450 --> 0:02:43.130 choosing my mother's left breast over the right. As a teenager, 0:02:43.190 --> 0:02:47.330 I regretted things I had not even done yet. Alcohol, drugs, 0:02:47.670 --> 0:02:51.310 unprotected sex. I looked forward to regretting the hell out 0:02:51.350 --> 0:02:54.829 of them. And now as an adult, my regrets are 0:02:54.890 --> 0:02:58.780 still many. Take today, for instance. I regret the beta 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:00.480 blockers I swallowed before. 0:03:00.260 --> 0:03:01.060 Coming out here. 0:03:02.100 --> 0:03:04.360 They're making me feel like I'm talking to you from 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:08.260 the bottom of an oatmeal bowl. And of course, I 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:10.980 regret agreeing to appear at On Air Fest in the 0:03:11.020 --> 0:03:15.570 first place. During that initial meeting with its organizers, I 0:03:15.650 --> 0:03:20.330 especially regret using words like awesome and sounds like fun. 0:03:22.050 --> 0:03:24.930 But the greatest breeding ground for my remorse has been 0:03:24.990 --> 0:03:29.690 sown in the gray garden of the Heavyweight podcast itself. Sure, 0:03:29.740 --> 0:03:32.940 I've had some good times while making Heavyweight. There was 0:03:32.980 --> 0:03:36.020 my stay at an airport hotel in Burbank that served 0:03:36.140 --> 0:03:39.560 free cucumber water. And there was the time I used 0:03:39.580 --> 0:03:43.620 the recording studio after Esther Perel, and the whole room 0:03:43.700 --> 0:03:45.580 smelled of eggnog and gardenias. 0:03:46.940 --> 0:03:48.530 But nothing else comes to mind. 0:03:49.550 --> 0:03:54.230 Mostly the experience has been dominated by Dorkenschadenschmier, the German 0:03:54.270 --> 0:03:57.430 word for why must everything I do be the exactly 0:03:57.490 --> 0:04:02.510 wrong thing to do? Because of this tendency towards second 0:04:02.530 --> 0:04:06.330 guessing myself, re-listening to my own work can be sheer misery. 0:04:07.090 --> 0:04:09.940 But is it not I who knows better than anyone 0:04:10.420 --> 0:04:15.520 that it is only by reliving, re-inhabiting, and re-flagellating oneself 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:19.659 with the past that one can finally heal? If only 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:21.840 I had my own Jonathan Goldstein. 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:24.460 Alas, there can only be one. 0:04:25.359 --> 0:04:28.500 But for today, my on-air fest audience, you will be 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:32.819 my Jonathan Goldstein to bear witness as, together, we will 0:04:32.859 --> 0:04:36.320 listen to my top seven most regrettable moments from heavyweight. 0:04:38.029 --> 0:04:42.550 Regret number one, seat of the pantsing it. Roused from 0:04:42.609 --> 0:04:45.689 a nap, fingers sticky with grape jelly, I'm often not 0:04:45.750 --> 0:04:50.219 at all prepared before an interview. But occasionally, I'm so ill-equipped, 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:54.640 I should have my podcasting license revoked. In the clip 0:04:54.679 --> 0:04:57.939 of tape I'm about to play you, I'm phoning a 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:03.239 102-year-old woman with an 80-year-old regret and allowing this to happen. 0:05:09.659 --> 0:05:10.039 Hello? 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:15.859 Hello, is this Barbara? No, this is Deborah. Uh, how 0:05:15.919 --> 0:05:16.999 are you related to Barbara? 0:05:18.219 --> 0:05:19.900 I don't know who Barbara is. 0:05:21.659 --> 0:05:24.460 The reason she doesn't know who Barbara is is because 0:05:24.500 --> 0:05:25.800 there is no Barbara. 0:05:26.940 --> 0:05:27.499 Oh, my. 0:05:27.659 --> 0:05:29.920 I'm so sorry. For some reason, I think I thought 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.179 your name was Barbara. 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:33.159 It's okay. 0:05:33.299 --> 0:05:34.560 I've lived long enough. 0:05:34.739 --> 0:05:36.080 I could take any name. 0:05:39.190 --> 0:05:41.409 I've listened to this over and over, and I still 0:05:41.429 --> 0:05:44.330 can't figure out how I came up with the name Barbara. 0:05:45.229 --> 0:05:47.809 My mother's middle name is Barbara, and my girlfriend in 0:05:47.869 --> 0:05:51.229 college was named Barbara, and her mother was named Deborah, 0:05:51.310 --> 0:05:55.629 so maybe that's why. Which leads me to regret number two, 0:05:56.250 --> 0:06:01.049 not keeping focus. When teasing out a story, I want details. 0:06:01.429 --> 0:06:04.869 You spilled hot coffee on yourself? Was there sugar in 0:06:04.909 --> 0:06:09.240 the coffee? What color was your coffee cup? Often this 0:06:09.260 --> 0:06:12.900 can elevate the storytelling, but just as often it can 0:06:12.940 --> 0:06:17.259 do the opposite. In the episode called Julia, Julia has 0:06:17.339 --> 0:06:19.940 only begun to lay out a painful memory from her 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:23.089 private school days when I am already derailed by the 0:06:23.150 --> 0:06:25.070 details of her school uniform. 0:06:25.089 --> 0:06:30.110 That's sort of a puke green uniform with a button-down 0:06:30.169 --> 0:06:32.229 white shirt, and on Mondays we had to wear ties. 0:06:33.229 --> 0:06:34.070 We also had bloomers. 0:06:34.770 --> 0:06:36.789 I don't think I ever understood what bloomers were. 0:06:37.140 --> 0:06:40.460 It was just sort of like a balloon. 0:06:41.039 --> 0:06:42.360 With holes in the bottom. 0:06:42.919 --> 0:06:43.969 And were they ruffled? 0:06:46.450 --> 0:06:46.770 See that? 0:06:47.479 --> 0:06:50.260 While it's true I've been cursed with a lifelong inability 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:55.479 to distinguish between bloomers, culottes, pantalettes, pantaloons, drawers, and knickerbockers, 0:06:56.390 --> 0:06:58.870 should I have chosen that moment to sort it all out? 0:06:59.489 --> 0:07:02.349 Should it have required a five-minute digression and the sight 0:07:02.390 --> 0:07:05.469 of my producer frantically giving me the wrap-it-up motion to 0:07:05.510 --> 0:07:08.870 finally move on? This would be the part in the 0:07:08.909 --> 0:07:11.820 podcast where the music would swell up for a few seconds, 0:07:12.220 --> 0:07:15.940 allowing you to consider the questions. Since I have no music, 0:07:15.980 --> 0:07:18.340 I'll instead give you a moment while I check my phone. 0:07:25.300 --> 0:07:30.580 Regret number three, being overly eager for resolution. If I've 0:07:30.619 --> 0:07:33.360 learned anything from my work in the business of forcing 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:37.379 people to ask terrifying questions, it's that it's always best 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:41.300 to just get it over with. Ask the question, why 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:44.050 did you ruin my life? And get ready for a 0:07:44.090 --> 0:07:49.090 painful and often unsatisfying response. But sometimes you have to 0:07:49.130 --> 0:07:55.369 take it slow. In Heavyweight's very first episode, my 80-year-old father, Buzz, 0:07:55.690 --> 0:07:59.610 had not spoken to his 85-year-old brother, Sheldon, in 40 years. 0:08:00.650 --> 0:08:02.720 In the tape I'm about to play you, they're just 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:06.220 settling in with some small talk. My uncle Sheldon is 0:08:06.260 --> 0:08:10.580 sharing an anecdote. a filthy, inappropriate anecdote about someone named 0:08:10.610 --> 0:08:14.400 Johnny from their old neighborhood. Listen for my artful attempt 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:19.660 to steer the conversation towards the touchy-feely, the pokey-wokey, so 0:08:19.739 --> 0:08:22.140 soon into their first encounter in decades. 0:08:22.850 --> 0:08:26.770 We're riding on Queens Boulevard. Johnny's in the backseat with 0:08:26.810 --> 0:08:29.900 the hood. He's got his naked ass up in the 0:08:30.090 --> 0:08:33.860 air and he's humping. The funny thing is we had 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.679 to stop for a light and there's a truck driver 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.760 sitting in the cab up high who looked at the car, 0:08:41.820 --> 0:08:42.500 it was funny. 0:08:47.620 --> 0:08:50.700 Did you guys miss each other? Did you miss each other? 0:08:52.780 --> 0:08:56.800 You know, he asks the weirdest questions. 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:58.080 What is he. 0:08:58.100 --> 0:08:58.660 A broad? 0:08:58.820 --> 0:08:59.820 No, I mean, I don't know. 0:08:59.880 --> 0:09:00.620 It's, you know. 0:09:01.860 --> 0:09:05.090 A part of me still regrets not pile-driving my 85-year-old 0:09:05.150 --> 0:09:08.050 Uncle Sheldon with enough force to set off his life-call 0:09:08.110 --> 0:09:09.410 medical alert bracelet. 0:09:10.630 --> 0:09:14.440 But instead, I moved on. Regret number four. 0:09:15.340 --> 0:09:18.560 In the episode, The Marshes, I regret comparing Steve Marsh 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:22.120 to a dog. While it's easy to be free in 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:24.770 your thoughts while writing a script, it can sometimes be 0:09:24.810 --> 0:09:27.790 hard to live with the aftermath. And in this case, 0:09:28.210 --> 0:09:31.910 the aftermath was especially hard because Steve and I became friends. 0:09:32.510 --> 0:09:35.170 And every time we get together, somewhere in the back 0:09:35.210 --> 0:09:37.700 of my mind is my guilt over how I described 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:41.440 Steve in the episode, which is like this. I first 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:45.900 met Steve Marsh at my brother-in-law's wedding. In conversation that night, 0:09:46.460 --> 0:09:50.520 Steve was given to making soulful observations, punctuated by the 0:09:50.550 --> 0:09:54.630 word man. It's perhaps also worth mentioning that while Steve 0:09:54.690 --> 0:09:57.950 wasn't invited to the wedding per se, all the guests 0:09:58.090 --> 0:10:01.630 were both happy and unsurprised to see him. Of course 0:10:01.670 --> 0:10:04.420 Steve would be there, and his entrance felt like a 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.910 lovable St. Bernard had just wandered into the reception hall. 0:10:08.470 --> 0:10:10.430 Would you send a wedding invitation to a St. 0:10:10.470 --> 0:10:10.950 Bernard? 0:10:11.610 --> 0:10:14.370 Of course not. But would you be darn pleased to 0:10:14.430 --> 0:10:15.350 see one show up? 0:10:16.350 --> 0:10:17.130 Absolutely. 0:10:18.810 --> 0:10:22.450 I've always regretted comparing Steve to a St. Bernard, so 0:10:22.490 --> 0:10:24.270 I called him up to apologize. 0:10:24.290 --> 0:10:29.920 Hey, Steve? 0:10:30.220 --> 0:10:30.740 Yeah, man. 0:10:30.780 --> 0:10:34.840 What are you up to? So I'm giving this talk 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:36.319 at On Air Fest. 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:37.100 Yeah. 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:40.840 So the thing that I'm doing, I'm talking about my 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.120 own regrets while making a show about regret. 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:45.320 Wow. 0:10:46.100 --> 0:10:50.860 But the reason why I'm phoning is because I... I've 0:10:50.900 --> 0:10:54.080 always felt some amount of regret for the way that 0:10:54.220 --> 0:10:57.220 I describe you in the marshes, the way that I. 0:10:57.290 --> 0:10:57.870 Really? 0:10:58.150 --> 0:10:58.429 Yeah. 0:10:58.810 --> 0:10:59.390 What part? 0:11:00.030 --> 0:11:01.230 The Great Bernard? 0:11:02.220 --> 0:11:04.220 I always felt like maybe it was a little presumptuous 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:05.439 to refer to you as a St. 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:05.920 Bernard. 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:09.080 I think I'm okay. 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:11.340 But yeah, I don't know, man. 0:11:11.420 --> 0:11:12.100 I think you're good. 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:13.600 I thought it was affectionate, Jonathan. 0:11:13.660 --> 0:11:14.320 It was. 0:11:14.340 --> 0:11:16.500 It sounded affectionate to me. 0:11:16.790 --> 0:11:18.710 Okay, cool. I think my. 0:11:18.630 --> 0:11:21.200 Brother had so much more trepidation about it. 0:11:23.810 --> 0:11:26.150 Not the way you described him, but just like bringing. 0:11:25.890 --> 0:11:30.270 Up the fact that he was a meth head, you know? 0:11:30.290 --> 0:11:32.679 Yeah. Oh shit. 0:11:35.680 --> 0:11:38.189 One regret healed and another to take its place. 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:43.790 I guess I owe Steve's brother a call now too. 0:11:45.550 --> 0:11:47.930 And a great swell of music to allow some time 0:11:47.970 --> 0:11:53.510 to properly savor the irony. And regret number five. Being 0:11:53.590 --> 0:11:57.330 unable to keep from gagging. While I always feel empathy 0:11:57.390 --> 0:12:00.720 for heavyweight subjects, I don't always show it enough. In 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:04.060 the episode Tony, Tony is regretful about the fact that 0:12:04.100 --> 0:12:07.360 while he's been made a godfather three times, he's blown 0:12:07.420 --> 0:12:09.980 it each and every time with each and every one 0:12:10.020 --> 0:12:11.260 of his three godchildren. 0:12:12.020 --> 0:12:15.120 So I decided to help him fix those blown relationships. 0:12:16.100 --> 0:12:19.760 Here's Tony trying to reconnect with goddaughter number two, now 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:23.179 a teenager who he's not seen in years. We've just 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.550 picked her up after school and are driving around. Knowing 0:12:26.590 --> 0:12:30.150 that young people enjoy gross stuff like poop-flavored jelly beans 0:12:30.250 --> 0:12:36.120 and Timothee Chalamet's mustache, Tony takes his shot at bonding. 0:12:36.140 --> 0:12:41.660 I have a really gross, disgusting story to tell you. Oh. Well, 0:12:41.680 --> 0:12:43.230 can you contextualize what disgusting is? 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:43.819 Oh, my God. 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.280 I'm only thinking about it because it happened right around here. 0:12:46.580 --> 0:12:48.080 Oh, no, I don't like where this is going. 0:12:48.100 --> 0:12:50.340 A friend of mine. 0:12:51.210 --> 0:12:53.970 He's been collecting his vomit for the past 20 years 0:12:54.230 --> 0:12:57.740 in a gigantic tin, like a gigantic metal drum in 0:12:57.780 --> 0:12:58.240 the basement. 0:12:59.500 --> 0:13:00.780 Oh my God. 0:13:01.700 --> 0:13:02.400 What the heck? 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.580 Instead of nearly retching, I should have been more supportive, 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:11.480 offering Tony helpful follow-up questions to help keep the vibe light. 0:13:12.570 --> 0:13:14.949 I could have asked, did your friend buy this gigantic 0:13:15.010 --> 0:13:18.530 metal tub at the container store? And is there a 0:13:18.570 --> 0:13:22.540 special aisle for barf? And yet, on other occasions, I 0:13:22.580 --> 0:13:25.920 do worse than merely failing to support a subject. Which 0:13:25.980 --> 0:13:29.750 brings me to regret number six, disrespecting the profession of 0:13:29.810 --> 0:13:35.610 journalism by abandoning even the semblance of objectivity. In the 0:13:35.670 --> 0:13:39.990 episode Joey, a young rollerblading hipster named Joey is living 0:13:40.030 --> 0:13:43.470 in a loft with six other young hipsters. Since Joey 0:13:43.530 --> 0:13:46.850 is crippled by shyness, he spends all his days hiding 0:13:46.890 --> 0:13:49.780 in his room. that it isn't even really a room 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:52.120 so much as it's an area in the living room 0:13:52.140 --> 0:13:56.110 walled off by a bed sheet. Eventually, Joey's roommates grew 0:13:56.190 --> 0:13:59.390 so upset by his creepy secretive ways that they kicked 0:13:59.450 --> 0:14:02.110 him out. Finding it hard to get a handle on 0:14:02.150 --> 0:14:06.080 Joey's essence, I decided to speak with his sister, Elise. 0:14:06.700 --> 0:14:08.840 She tells me about the phone call Joey made to 0:14:08.900 --> 0:14:11.360 her on the day he was ejected from the loft. 0:14:12.460 --> 0:14:15.520 He was like almost in tears telling me this story. 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.819 And he told me about how he cried, which is always, 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.300 he doesn't cry that often. You could tell it was 0:14:22.340 --> 0:14:24.660 a big deal that he expressed that he cried about it. 0:14:25.810 --> 0:14:27.870 And he told the whole story and I was laughing 0:14:27.990 --> 0:14:32.810 so hard because it's a really funny story. And I 0:14:32.850 --> 0:14:35.530 wanted him to see that it was funny too. And 0:14:35.650 --> 0:14:37.210 he could see the humor in it, but he was 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.940 also pretty clearly devastated. 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.540 When I ask Elise what's so funny about her brother 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.660 crying on the phone, she makes a pretty strong case, 0:14:47.220 --> 0:14:51.040 casually eviscerating Joey in the way only a loving sister can. 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:56.580 Him in his rollerblades and often, like, funny-looking tank tops, his, like, 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:58.450 creeper mustache and his mullet. 0:14:59.500 --> 0:15:02.210 And this is where I should have shown more professionalism, 0:15:02.790 --> 0:15:05.210 rather than laughing, which is what I did. 0:15:05.890 --> 0:15:07.710 Definitely just the look of him. 0:15:07.730 --> 0:15:09.610 Hang on a second. He has a mullet? 0:15:11.230 --> 0:15:25.110 Full creepy young child mustache. And his shoulders and arms 0:15:25.890 --> 0:15:29.940 look strong, but they're small. And same with his legs. 0:15:30.820 --> 0:15:35.080 His legs are shockingly skinny. They do have an incredible 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:36.420 shine to them, I will admit. 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:43.480 I've always regretted my euphorically blithe tone, so I decided 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.620 to call up Joey and comp to it. 0:15:49.860 --> 0:15:50.780 Is this Mr. 0:15:50.820 --> 0:15:54.700 Jonathan Goldstein? Joey, can I tell you why I was phoning? 0:15:55.060 --> 0:15:59.700 Please. So I'm talking about my personal regrets while making 0:15:59.740 --> 0:16:00.720 a show about regret. 0:16:00.740 --> 0:16:01.980 Okay, a little meta. 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:07.070 So I played a passage from our story, your story, 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:12.580 the Joey story, a regret that I had was when 0:16:12.620 --> 0:16:15.270 I spoke with your sister, how I didn't maintain a 0:16:15.310 --> 0:16:17.610 lot of journalistic objectivity. 0:16:17.690 --> 0:16:20.650 I ended up, you know, kind of laughing with her. 0:16:20.670 --> 0:16:20.750 Okay. 0:16:22.110 --> 0:16:26.050 I'm sorry you feel that way. You've always felt okay 0:16:26.090 --> 0:16:26.810 about it, I hope. 0:16:27.730 --> 0:16:28.430 That part, yeah. 0:16:28.470 --> 0:16:29.550 No, that was. 0:16:29.630 --> 0:16:31.010 Oh, okay. 0:16:31.190 --> 0:16:34.580 You say that part. Was there another part that you 0:16:34.620 --> 0:16:35.600 felt less okay about? 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:37.340 Um. 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.880 Um, no, I wouldn't say that. 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:48.470 Done and done. Apologies made, grace granted. It really is 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:49.170 that easy. 0:16:49.190 --> 0:16:55.030 And good luck with this talk. There's a chance I'll come. 0:16:55.710 --> 0:16:57.250 It's like down the street from my house, so I 0:16:57.290 --> 0:16:58.690 usually just sneak in. 0:16:58.930 --> 0:17:01.290 Oh, yeah. I'll leave a fire escape open for you. 0:17:04.250 --> 0:17:05.669 Would that be something you'd want to be like and 0:17:05.690 --> 0:17:07.510 he's in the audience right now kind of thing or 0:17:08.710 --> 0:17:10.550 I think if you were yeah I think I would 0:17:10.590 --> 0:17:15.909 do that okay and Joey are you in. 0:17:15.919 --> 0:17:18.980 The audience hey. 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:27.499 I'm so glad because I regret forgetting to leave the 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:32.650 fire escape open but you found your way in okay Finally, 0:17:32.730 --> 0:17:36.940 regret number seven, I regret my regret. For me, no 0:17:37.010 --> 0:17:41.820 experience is complete until it's been thoroughly, vigorously regretted. But 0:17:41.879 --> 0:17:45.080 for some, regret isn't even a word in their vocabulary. 0:17:46.139 --> 0:17:50.669 In the episode titled Christina, Christina confronts her foster mother, Isabel, 0:17:50.830 --> 0:17:54.999 over a decision Isabel made 30 years earlier. It was 0:17:55.060 --> 0:17:58.820 a decision that derailed Christina's life for the worse. At 0:17:58.859 --> 0:18:02.379 the end of the episode, after a long reconciliatory conversation, 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.070 I brought up the notion of regret, asking Isabel, now 0:18:06.449 --> 0:18:09.609 in her 90s, if she at all regrets the decision 0:18:09.649 --> 0:18:11.870 that caused her foster daughter so much pain. 0:18:12.490 --> 0:18:13.889 This was Isabel's response. 0:18:14.929 --> 0:18:17.179 Oh, I wish I had known more about it at 0:18:17.209 --> 0:18:19.480 the time, but I mean, I still have no regrets 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:19.919 about it. 0:18:21.149 --> 0:18:23.609 It's as though Isabel just doesn't understand what the word 0:18:23.750 --> 0:18:28.409 regret means. So I offer a working definition. If we 0:18:28.429 --> 0:18:30.389 were to set off in a time machine where we 0:18:30.429 --> 0:18:32.850 could return to that time and Christina were to say, 0:18:32.869 --> 0:18:35.989 you know... I know what you're saying, but frankly, I 0:18:36.030 --> 0:18:36.970 don't know what I'd do. 0:18:37.290 --> 0:18:40.310 You know, I really don't. It would depend on what 0:18:40.330 --> 0:18:42.189 kind of a mood I'm in. If you were in 0:18:42.209 --> 0:18:45.329 the mood that you're in right now. I really have 0:18:45.389 --> 0:18:46.009 no idea. 0:18:46.030 --> 0:18:49.210 I could give you a lot of BS and tell 0:18:49.230 --> 0:18:50.530 you how good I would have been, but. 0:18:52.209 --> 0:18:56.069 It wouldn't have been the truth. It's a decision that 0:18:56.090 --> 0:18:58.129 was made when she was younger. It wasn't the right one. 0:18:58.510 --> 0:19:01.879 But how many wrong decisions are made as we go along? 0:19:04.139 --> 0:19:05.979 Regretting something is a waste of time. 0:19:06.879 --> 0:19:07.479 You move on. 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:13.859 Regretting something is a waste of time. Unsentimental, but correct. 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:18.290 For me, regret has a mystical dimension too. It isn't 0:19:18.330 --> 0:19:21.369 just about wishing I'd done things differently. Regret is a 0:19:21.429 --> 0:19:24.350 reminder of our free choice, even if it means freely 0:19:24.389 --> 0:19:28.810 making poor choices, because even bad choices speak to life's possibility, 0:19:29.209 --> 0:19:31.979 that it's not just predetermined, that we're more than ball 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.580 bearings repeating a mantra of, oh well, as we bump 0:19:35.639 --> 0:19:39.100 around in patterns set off by the Big Bang. Even 0:19:39.139 --> 0:19:41.359 though it often feels like we're so close to getting 0:19:41.399 --> 0:19:44.879 everything right, such a thing is, of course, never possible. 0:19:45.409 --> 0:19:47.649 The right way is outnumbered a million to one by 0:19:47.669 --> 0:19:51.560 all the wrong ways. Nonetheless, we tell ourselves, live and learn. 0:19:51.879 --> 0:19:55.189 Maybe next time. Maybe next time, everything will line up 0:19:55.230 --> 0:19:59.830 just right. But until then, there's heavy weight. wherever you 0:19:59.850 --> 0:20:00.709 get your podcast. 0:20:03.770 --> 0:20:10.109 Thank you. Thank you. 0:20:10.389 --> 0:20:14.340 This is the part where Edith Piaf's Je ne regrette rien. 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.520 Was supposed to play me off, but we couldn't afford 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:16.899 the right. 0:20:16.939 --> 0:20:19.730 So instead, I'll just say thank you and scamper off 0:20:20.250 --> 0:20:23.179 to the couch area for some Q & A with 0:20:23.220 --> 0:20:25.820 my producers, Kalila Holt and Stevie Lane. 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:26.960 Thank you. 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:32.480 And to get you started with the Q & A, Q, 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:37.590 is it time for some advertisements? A, yes it is. 0:20:37.609 --> 0:20:44.909 Here they come. 0:20:44.929 --> 0:20:58.779 Stevie Lane. we were going to open the floor hoping 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:02.979 that maybe some of you might have some questions oh 0:21:03.100 --> 0:21:04.300 yes I would. 0:21:04.179 --> 0:21:05.980 Imagine that there's some stories that you spent a lot 0:21:06.020 --> 0:21:08.770 of time chasing down that ended up not panning out 0:21:09.609 --> 0:21:11.529 so I'm curious if you feel like you've gotten better 0:21:11.590 --> 0:21:14.310 at telling when something's not going to have a satisfying 0:21:14.330 --> 0:21:17.590 resolution what the farthest you ever went and then pulled 0:21:17.609 --> 0:21:18.590 the plug on something. 0:21:19.369 --> 0:21:21.070 I feel like there's certain kinds of stories that we've 0:21:21.109 --> 0:21:24.969 learned people are like more reticent to participate in, like 0:21:25.990 --> 0:21:28.539 bully kinds of stories when it's sort of like mean 0:21:28.859 --> 0:21:31.040 girl situations like that. 0:21:31.060 --> 0:21:31.540 Yeah. 0:21:32.619 --> 0:21:34.959 And then also sometimes in the times where we do 0:21:35.020 --> 0:21:37.200 not find the thing that we're looking for, we really 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:39.920 have to have something to say about it. And that 0:21:39.959 --> 0:21:43.780 can sometimes be very challenging. Because if you don't find 0:21:43.820 --> 0:21:46.560 the parrot, then you have to be like, well, who 0:21:46.619 --> 0:21:49.869 among us has not found the quote unquote parrot? 0:21:49.889 --> 0:21:51.810 Maybe we're all parrots in some way. 0:21:52.109 --> 0:21:52.469 Yeah. 0:21:52.709 --> 0:21:55.149 And when you ask, what's the farthest we've gotten? 0:21:55.189 --> 0:21:56.469 Of course, things have fallen apart. 0:21:56.689 --> 0:21:58.949 We've located the person and they're dead. 0:21:59.629 --> 0:22:00.389 That falls apart. 0:22:00.429 --> 0:22:05.209 But we usually just shelf the story and keep checking 0:22:05.250 --> 0:22:09.539 in with the person. And sometimes with time, something new 0:22:09.580 --> 0:22:10.900 comes up or something changes. 0:22:12.770 --> 0:22:14.790 Anybody else? Yes, in the back. 0:22:16.639 --> 0:22:20.139 We were considering having Joey zipping around on his rollerblades 0:22:20.379 --> 0:22:21.479 with the microphone. 0:22:22.679 --> 0:22:24.060 My question is for the producers. 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:26.139 I believe you guys have been with the show for 0:22:26.159 --> 0:22:30.970 a super long time at this point, right? How has 0:22:30.990 --> 0:22:34.729 the experience and role of producing the show grown and changed? 0:22:35.189 --> 0:22:37.709 Are you able to work together in person or is 0:22:37.750 --> 0:22:38.290 it remotely? 0:22:39.050 --> 0:22:41.420 Well, answer the remote thing because that's like an easier, 0:22:41.899 --> 0:22:44.800 like that's just facts. Me and Stevie are both in 0:22:44.820 --> 0:22:47.540 New York. Jonathan is in Minnesota. So we're doing a 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:51.479 lot remotely. But occasionally we're in the same place. And 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:54.379 often like Jonathan and I just went on a reporting trip. 0:22:54.419 --> 0:22:57.080 So like sometimes when we're in the field, we're also together. 0:22:57.459 --> 0:22:59.080 But a lot of the editing is remote. 0:23:00.740 --> 0:23:04.180 How has it changed over time for us? I think 0:23:04.199 --> 0:23:06.180 we've like developed a shorthand. 0:23:06.300 --> 0:23:07.479 Yeah, like submarine talk. 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:08.960