1 00:00:09,042 --> 00:00:10,322 Speaker 1: Heart originals. 2 00:00:10,362 --> 00:00:12,482 Speaker 2: This is an iHeart original. 3 00:00:16,402 --> 00:00:20,722 Speaker 3: January twenty first, nineteen forty four was a Friday in 4 00:00:20,802 --> 00:00:24,962 Speaker 3: New York City and a woman named Velveley Dickinson had 5 00:00:25,002 --> 00:00:28,482 Speaker 3: an errand to run. At fifty years old, she was 6 00:00:28,562 --> 00:00:33,082 Speaker 3: a tiny little thing, short and skinny, with round glasses 7 00:00:33,482 --> 00:00:37,002 Speaker 3: and hair pinned up in the wavy coffure of the era. 8 00:00:37,842 --> 00:00:42,562 Speaker 3: You might have described her as plain, ordinary, harmless. Her 9 00:00:42,602 --> 00:00:47,402 Speaker 3: occupation suggested the same. Dickinson owned a doll shop on 10 00:00:47,522 --> 00:00:51,322 Speaker 3: Madison Avenue, just a block from Central Park, A doll 11 00:00:51,402 --> 00:00:55,842 Speaker 3: shop owner with a name like Velvele. How sweet, But 12 00:00:56,122 --> 00:01:01,642 Speaker 3: Velvele Dickinson had a secret unbeknownst to her. She'd been 13 00:01:01,682 --> 00:01:05,562 Speaker 3: on the FBI's radar for more than a year now 14 00:01:05,602 --> 00:01:09,842 Speaker 3: the Feds were finally ready to make a move. By 15 00:01:09,922 --> 00:01:13,882 Speaker 3: nineteen forty four, FBI agents or g men as they 16 00:01:13,882 --> 00:01:18,242 Speaker 3: were called, had been trailing Dickinson for days, tracking her 17 00:01:18,282 --> 00:01:21,722 Speaker 3: comings and goings at seven hundred and eighteen Madison Avenue, 18 00:01:22,082 --> 00:01:26,042 Speaker 3: her little storefront with those cute antique dolls in the window. 19 00:01:26,962 --> 00:01:30,242 Speaker 3: That afternoon they watched our walk half a block to 20 00:01:30,282 --> 00:01:34,522 Speaker 3: the corner of sixty third Street. That's where Dickinson entered 21 00:01:34,602 --> 00:01:37,882 Speaker 3: the Bank of New York, a mansion like building whose 22 00:01:38,002 --> 00:01:42,042 Speaker 3: red brick and white marble were called the Early Days 23 00:01:42,082 --> 00:01:45,642 Speaker 3: of the Republic. She walked into the vault and opened 24 00:01:45,642 --> 00:01:49,602 Speaker 3: a safe deposit box, none the wiser about the federal 25 00:01:49,642 --> 00:01:54,362 Speaker 3: agents observing her as she rifled through its contents. Then, 26 00:01:54,602 --> 00:01:58,042 Speaker 3: as Dickinson peered down at the wads of cash in 27 00:01:58,082 --> 00:02:04,482 Speaker 3: her hands, the agents pounced. Dickinson didn't go quietly. She kicked, 28 00:02:04,642 --> 00:02:09,082 Speaker 3: She screamed, she clawed at her captors. As The New 29 00:02:09,162 --> 00:02:13,562 Speaker 3: York Times would note on its front page the following day, quote, 30 00:02:13,802 --> 00:02:17,082 Speaker 3: the woman is scarcely five feet tall and weighs perhaps 31 00:02:17,162 --> 00:02:21,162 Speaker 3: one hundred pounds, but she fought bitterly against Federal Bureau 32 00:02:21,202 --> 00:02:26,282 Speaker 3: of Investigation agents who took her into custody. Anyone observing 33 00:02:26,322 --> 00:02:29,602 Speaker 3: the scene must have been stunned. What could these hard 34 00:02:29,722 --> 00:02:34,202 Speaker 3: boiled lawmen possibly want with this diminutive, middle aged woman 35 00:02:34,362 --> 00:02:38,002 Speaker 3: just minding her own business. What crime of hers was 36 00:02:38,082 --> 00:02:41,722 Speaker 3: serious enough to warrant a sneak attack in the safe 37 00:02:41,722 --> 00:02:45,082 Speaker 3: deposit department of a local bank. The people in the 38 00:02:45,122 --> 00:02:49,642 Speaker 3: bank that day had no idea just how serious Dickinson's 39 00:02:49,722 --> 00:02:54,482 Speaker 3: crimes were. Not only had these bystanders witnessed a high 40 00:02:54,522 --> 00:02:58,602 Speaker 3: stakes FBI sting. They'd had a front row seat to 41 00:02:58,682 --> 00:03:03,402 Speaker 3: one of the strangest espionage cases of the Second World War. 42 00:03:05,402 --> 00:03:10,122 Speaker 3: Welcome back to very special episodes and I heeart original podcast. 43 00:03:10,602 --> 00:03:17,402 Speaker 3: I'm your host, Danish Swartz and this is Spies and Dolls. 44 00:03:22,202 --> 00:03:25,122 Speaker 4: Welcome back to very special episodes. I'm Jason English. She 45 00:03:25,402 --> 00:03:28,362 Speaker 4: is Danish Swartz. That's zam Bernette. And yeah, a good 46 00:03:28,362 --> 00:03:29,562 Speaker 4: old fashioned spy story. 47 00:03:29,802 --> 00:03:30,882 Speaker 5: I loved this one. 48 00:03:31,082 --> 00:03:33,482 Speaker 3: I am obsessed with this story totally. 49 00:03:33,482 --> 00:03:35,922 Speaker 5: In the name Vilvoe Dickinson, how dope is that it's 50 00:03:35,922 --> 00:03:36,842 Speaker 5: like honey on the tongue. 51 00:03:36,922 --> 00:03:38,562 Speaker 6: It's like a James Bond villain. 52 00:03:38,882 --> 00:03:40,122 Speaker 4: Yes, exactly. 53 00:03:40,402 --> 00:03:42,482 Speaker 6: I will say I always kind of thought that this 54 00:03:42,642 --> 00:03:46,762 Speaker 6: sort of spy i'll say Shenanigans felt just like it 55 00:03:46,802 --> 00:03:49,842 Speaker 6: was in pulp novels and like, you know, James Bond 56 00:03:49,882 --> 00:03:52,802 Speaker 6: movies where I didn't realize spies were actually doing things 57 00:03:52,882 --> 00:03:53,162 Speaker 6: like this. 58 00:03:53,842 --> 00:03:56,242 Speaker 5: Totally the South American dead letter drop. I mean, you're like, 59 00:03:56,282 --> 00:03:58,802 Speaker 5: oh my goodness, that's real. Yeah, I loved this for 60 00:03:58,882 --> 00:03:59,162 Speaker 5: all that. 61 00:03:59,442 --> 00:04:02,082 Speaker 4: Yeah, with no spoilers, we'll just say there's a male 62 00:04:02,282 --> 00:04:05,322 Speaker 4: scam in here. That I've been thinking about ever since 63 00:04:05,362 --> 00:04:07,482 Speaker 4: I first heard about it. Oh yeah, Dana, I don't 64 00:04:07,482 --> 00:04:10,162 Speaker 4: know if you realize this. This is our second doll 65 00:04:10,242 --> 00:04:12,962 Speaker 4: story we've collaborated on a few years ago. In the 66 00:04:13,042 --> 00:04:17,002 Speaker 4: Haleywood podcast about Bruce Willis buying up a town in Idaho, 67 00:04:17,082 --> 00:04:19,762 Speaker 4: one of the episodes is about the house that he 68 00:04:19,882 --> 00:04:22,642 Speaker 4: bought for Demi Moore's dolls. 69 00:04:23,242 --> 00:04:27,562 Speaker 6: I have to say, Jason, throughout the entire Like Award season, 70 00:04:27,722 --> 00:04:30,522 Speaker 6: because Demi Moore obviously had an amazing role in the 71 00:04:30,562 --> 00:04:33,682 Speaker 6: substance she was everywhere she was at the oscars, I 72 00:04:33,802 --> 00:04:37,762 Speaker 6: just could not stop thinking about the full human sized 73 00:04:37,802 --> 00:04:40,162 Speaker 6: dollhouse in Haley, Ida. 74 00:04:41,642 --> 00:04:43,962 Speaker 5: Now I don't know as much about her doing this, 75 00:04:44,122 --> 00:04:46,002 Speaker 5: but did she go and like hang out there like 76 00:04:46,042 --> 00:04:48,282 Speaker 5: on bad days or was it just like to show people, 77 00:04:48,322 --> 00:04:49,722 Speaker 5: like you got to go see my dollhouse. 78 00:04:49,842 --> 00:04:52,442 Speaker 6: I really hope that she did spend time there, and 79 00:04:52,482 --> 00:04:56,002 Speaker 6: I think occasionally, but like she didn't live there full time. 80 00:04:56,802 --> 00:04:58,842 Speaker 1: No, No, I couldn't imagine that. That would be freaky. 81 00:04:59,362 --> 00:05:01,522 Speaker 6: Also, it feels like if you use it as a 82 00:05:01,562 --> 00:05:04,122 Speaker 6: guest house, it would feel like a punishment, like a 83 00:05:04,162 --> 00:05:06,562 Speaker 6: creepy punishment to like tell your friends like, oh yeah, 84 00:05:06,602 --> 00:05:08,762 Speaker 6: you can stay in the house as I keep on 85 00:05:08,882 --> 00:05:10,922 Speaker 6: my antique dolls. 86 00:05:10,522 --> 00:05:14,242 Speaker 5: And ippe like haunted Victorian dolls. 87 00:05:15,842 --> 00:05:19,682 Speaker 3: In nineteen oh eight, thirty six years before Velveley Dickinson's 88 00:05:19,762 --> 00:05:23,962 Speaker 3: dramatic arrest, the FBI was only just coming into being. 89 00:05:24,482 --> 00:05:27,562 Speaker 3: The Gilded Age had given way to the Progressive era, 90 00:05:28,002 --> 00:05:33,242 Speaker 3: and America's rapidly growing cities were teeming with new immigrants, 91 00:05:33,322 --> 00:05:39,722 Speaker 3: with overcrowded slums, with violence and corruption, labor unrest, a 92 00:05:39,802 --> 00:05:46,962 Speaker 3: flourishing criminal underworld, crooked political bosses, law defying corporate overlords. 93 00:05:47,562 --> 00:05:50,802 Speaker 3: You get the picture. And yet the country lacked a 94 00:05:51,162 --> 00:05:55,402 Speaker 3: unifying law enforcement agency to grapple with matters of crime 95 00:05:55,482 --> 00:06:00,762 Speaker 3: and security on a national scale. For President Teddy Roosevelt, 96 00:06:01,202 --> 00:06:05,602 Speaker 3: this was a problem. Sure, Roosevelt had the Department of Justice, 97 00:06:06,002 --> 00:06:10,282 Speaker 3: but the president wanted even greater leeway to monitor threats 98 00:06:10,722 --> 00:06:15,322 Speaker 3: to ensure the enforcement of justice from sea to shining sea. 99 00:06:16,242 --> 00:06:20,722 Speaker 3: In nineteen oh six, Roosevelt appointed an Attorney General named 100 00:06:20,882 --> 00:06:25,602 Speaker 3: Charles Buonaparte you may have heard of his great uncle Napoleon. 101 00:06:26,402 --> 00:06:31,802 Speaker 3: At Roosevelt behest Bonaparte put together an autonomous investigative service 102 00:06:31,922 --> 00:06:36,122 Speaker 3: reporting to the Justice Department. The problem was the Attorney 103 00:06:36,162 --> 00:06:40,722 Speaker 3: General's new unit had to borrow operatives from the Secret Service. 104 00:06:41,322 --> 00:06:45,442 Speaker 3: Some lawmakers didn't like this, and Congress therefore banned the 105 00:06:45,482 --> 00:06:49,962 Speaker 3: loan of Secret Service operatives to other federal departments. That 106 00:06:50,162 --> 00:06:55,402 Speaker 3: meant Bonaparte lost access to the detectives his DOJ relied on. 107 00:06:56,162 --> 00:07:00,522 Speaker 3: The solution with Roosevelt Blessing was for Buonaparte to create 108 00:07:00,602 --> 00:07:05,122 Speaker 3: an Investigative Bureau with its own staff of special agents, 109 00:07:05,522 --> 00:07:10,282 Speaker 3: which he did only t six nineteen oh eight, decreeing 110 00:07:10,402 --> 00:07:14,642 Speaker 3: that a new group of federal investigators would report directly 111 00:07:14,722 --> 00:07:17,002 Speaker 3: to the Chief Examiner of the DOJ. 112 00:07:17,962 --> 00:07:21,922 Speaker 7: All matters relating to investigations under the Department, except those 113 00:07:21,922 --> 00:07:24,282 Speaker 7: to be made by bank examiners and in connection with 114 00:07:24,322 --> 00:07:27,602 Speaker 7: the Naturalization Service, will be referred to the Chief Examiner 115 00:07:27,642 --> 00:07:30,562 Speaker 7: for memorandum as to whether any member of the Force 116 00:07:30,602 --> 00:07:33,722 Speaker 7: of Special Agents under his direction is available for the 117 00:07:33,722 --> 00:07:36,642 Speaker 7: work to be performed. In case the service cannot be 118 00:07:36,722 --> 00:07:39,842 Speaker 7: performed by the regular Force of Special Agents of the Department, 119 00:07:40,122 --> 00:07:42,482 Speaker 7: the matter will be specially called to the attention of 120 00:07:42,522 --> 00:07:43,562 Speaker 7: the Attorney General. 121 00:07:45,042 --> 00:07:48,922 Speaker 3: And just like that the FBI was born. It wouldn't 122 00:07:48,922 --> 00:07:52,842 Speaker 3: officially be called the Federal Bureau of Investigation until nineteen 123 00:07:52,882 --> 00:07:56,402 Speaker 3: thirty five, but for simplicity's sake, we're going to refer 124 00:07:56,442 --> 00:07:59,402 Speaker 3: to it as the FBI from here on out. In 125 00:07:59,442 --> 00:08:03,082 Speaker 3: the beginning, the fbis remant wasn't exactly the stuff of 126 00:08:03,242 --> 00:08:06,842 Speaker 3: page turning thrillers. There was a lot of white collar crime, 127 00:08:07,002 --> 00:08:11,882 Speaker 3: I'm antitrust cases, fraud, copyright violations, that sort of thing. 128 00:08:12,522 --> 00:08:15,842 Speaker 3: But the bureau's scope began to expand over time. 129 00:08:16,242 --> 00:08:20,242 Speaker 8: From our earliest days, we had a couple of dozen responsibilities, 130 00:08:20,282 --> 00:08:22,962 Speaker 8: and they included national security matters. 131 00:08:23,402 --> 00:08:26,402 Speaker 3: That's John Fox, an academic who has served as the 132 00:08:26,442 --> 00:08:30,242 Speaker 3: FBI's official historian since two thousand and three. 133 00:08:30,482 --> 00:08:34,242 Speaker 8: But as our nation grew in importance in the world, 134 00:08:34,282 --> 00:08:38,722 Speaker 8: both economically and politically, as we got involved in World 135 00:08:38,762 --> 00:08:42,602 Speaker 8: War One and then afterwards, the national security matters started 136 00:08:42,602 --> 00:08:46,402 Speaker 8: to become more prominent and the Bureau got new authorities 137 00:08:46,482 --> 00:08:49,802 Speaker 8: because of the potential threats that we faced here at home. 138 00:08:50,562 --> 00:08:54,042 Speaker 3: Those threats largely faded into the background after the First 139 00:08:54,082 --> 00:08:58,722 Speaker 3: World War and during Prohibition, the FBI found itself with 140 00:08:58,962 --> 00:09:04,562 Speaker 3: new fires to put out bootlegging, speakeasies, bank robberies, gangster shootouts, 141 00:09:04,882 --> 00:09:08,402 Speaker 3: really anything that fell under the rubriate of organized crime. 142 00:09:09,042 --> 00:09:12,602 Speaker 3: But it wasn't long before dark clouds began rolling in 143 00:09:12,682 --> 00:09:14,082 Speaker 3: from across the Atlantic. 144 00:09:15,162 --> 00:09:18,362 Speaker 8: As World War two started heating up, and especially as 145 00:09:18,362 --> 00:09:21,602 Speaker 8: it broke out in Europe, the Bureau moved back to 146 00:09:21,682 --> 00:09:26,042 Speaker 8: the national security realm and things changed rapidly. We went 147 00:09:26,082 --> 00:09:28,642 Speaker 8: from a couple hundred people in the Bureau to more 148 00:09:28,682 --> 00:09:33,842 Speaker 8: than ten thousand very quickly. We were involved with our 149 00:09:34,082 --> 00:09:39,482 Speaker 8: nations domestic security, protecting our businesses and government institutions from 150 00:09:39,562 --> 00:09:43,922 Speaker 8: espionage sabotage. And so it was in this atmosphere that 151 00:09:43,962 --> 00:09:50,002 Speaker 8: the FBI became the principal counter espionage, counterintelligence, counter sabotage 152 00:09:50,042 --> 00:09:53,842 Speaker 8: force for the United States here in our homeland. 153 00:09:54,602 --> 00:09:58,242 Speaker 3: In a nineteen forty four propaganda film, j Edgar Hoover 154 00:09:58,602 --> 00:10:03,402 Speaker 3: referred to these wartime counter espionage efforts as the Battle 155 00:10:03,442 --> 00:10:04,602 Speaker 3: of the United States. 156 00:10:05,562 --> 00:10:08,962 Speaker 9: Battle of the United States took place in every community 157 00:10:09,042 --> 00:10:12,642 Speaker 9: in the nation. It was a struggle against enemy agents 158 00:10:12,842 --> 00:10:16,042 Speaker 9: who had been sent to this country to disrupt our industries, 159 00:10:16,482 --> 00:10:21,042 Speaker 9: destroy a morale, and damage the impact of all fighting armies. 160 00:10:21,322 --> 00:10:25,122 Speaker 9: These agents were directed by the same high command that 161 00:10:25,242 --> 00:10:29,762 Speaker 9: directs the German and Japanese armies in combat, their ends 162 00:10:29,842 --> 00:10:30,442 Speaker 9: were the same. 163 00:10:31,242 --> 00:10:34,402 Speaker 3: One of the most famous sagas from this era was 164 00:10:34,442 --> 00:10:37,722 Speaker 3: the Dukane spy Ring, which would go down as the 165 00:10:37,842 --> 00:10:42,842 Speaker 3: largest espionage operation in US history to result in convictions. 166 00:10:43,322 --> 00:10:45,562 Speaker 3: By the time of its conclusion at the end of 167 00:10:45,642 --> 00:10:49,042 Speaker 3: nineteen forty one, the Bureau had set up dozens of 168 00:10:49,082 --> 00:10:52,962 Speaker 3: field offices across the country. It needed that firepower to 169 00:10:53,082 --> 00:10:58,202 Speaker 3: tackle investigations like the Dukene case, in which thirty three 170 00:10:58,442 --> 00:11:02,322 Speaker 3: Nazi spies were brought to justice right as America was 171 00:11:02,362 --> 00:11:03,682 Speaker 3: being pulled into the war. 172 00:11:04,122 --> 00:11:08,082 Speaker 9: Their conviction was made single by emotion to film taken 173 00:11:08,122 --> 00:11:11,962 Speaker 9: by our agents with cameras concealed at their meeting place. 174 00:11:12,922 --> 00:11:14,882 Speaker 9: Taking this film was danger's work. 175 00:11:15,922 --> 00:11:19,562 Speaker 8: By the time we were involved in the Duquesne spy Ring, 176 00:11:20,242 --> 00:11:23,882 Speaker 8: we were actually using some pretty sophisticated counter espionage work. 177 00:11:23,962 --> 00:11:27,002 Speaker 8: We had set up a private office for our informant 178 00:11:27,602 --> 00:11:32,282 Speaker 8: and he was basically to collect the intelligence from a 179 00:11:32,602 --> 00:11:36,242 Speaker 8: couple of dozen German agents who would bring it to him. 180 00:11:36,522 --> 00:11:40,682 Speaker 8: We weren't quite up to the standards of Great Britain 181 00:11:40,722 --> 00:11:43,762 Speaker 8: at the time, and the Soviets were pretty effective too, 182 00:11:44,042 --> 00:11:47,642 Speaker 8: but we were rapidly becoming a major force. 183 00:11:47,962 --> 00:11:51,002 Speaker 3: Even before America's entry into the war. It wasn't just 184 00:11:51,282 --> 00:11:54,802 Speaker 3: German spies that found themselves in the FBI's crosshairs. 185 00:11:55,082 --> 00:11:58,282 Speaker 8: There were also a couple of Japanese related espionage cases, 186 00:11:58,482 --> 00:12:03,442 Speaker 8: dealing with people either selling information to Japan or Japanese 187 00:12:03,562 --> 00:12:07,802 Speaker 8: nationals basically trying to gather intelligence in areas where they 188 00:12:07,802 --> 00:12:08,762 Speaker 8: weren't supposed to be. 189 00:12:10,042 --> 00:12:13,642 Speaker 3: Once the US declared war on Japan, which had evaded 190 00:12:13,722 --> 00:12:17,962 Speaker 3: American intelligence with its surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, the 191 00:12:18,002 --> 00:12:22,722 Speaker 3: pressure to sniff out Japanese agents was even greater. That 192 00:12:22,882 --> 00:12:26,962 Speaker 3: explained why, just two months after Pearl Harbor, in February 193 00:12:27,042 --> 00:12:31,242 Speaker 3: nineteen forty two, the FBI took an interest in a 194 00:12:31,282 --> 00:12:36,562 Speaker 3: peculiar letter brought to its attention by wartime censors. The 195 00:12:36,602 --> 00:12:41,082 Speaker 3: purpose of the wartime censors was to monitor international mail. 196 00:12:41,602 --> 00:12:46,282 Speaker 3: Physical letters embedded with coded messages were a key method 197 00:12:46,442 --> 00:12:51,362 Speaker 3: for spies to communicate with German or Japanese intelligence. Letters 198 00:12:51,402 --> 00:12:56,122 Speaker 3: addressed to neutral countries might arouse suspicion because that's how 199 00:12:56,282 --> 00:13:01,522 Speaker 3: enemy agents would communicate with contacts abroad. A few years earlier, 200 00:13:01,802 --> 00:13:05,762 Speaker 3: Britain's spy service had alerted the US about a woman 201 00:13:05,882 --> 00:13:10,282 Speaker 3: in Scotland who had been sending and receiving correspondence from 202 00:13:10,322 --> 00:13:14,482 Speaker 3: points across the globe. Roped into the investigation was a 203 00:13:14,562 --> 00:13:18,362 Speaker 3: man in New York named Gunther Rumerk. He turned out 204 00:13:18,482 --> 00:13:21,802 Speaker 3: to be a German asset, and he helped the FBI 205 00:13:21,962 --> 00:13:26,922 Speaker 3: crack its first major international spy case, as fictionalized in 206 00:13:26,962 --> 00:13:31,002 Speaker 3: the classic Warner Brothers thriller Confessions of a Nazi Spy. 207 00:13:31,802 --> 00:13:35,122 Speaker 9: So fine more than maclauchlin is this massid maclachlin. How 208 00:13:35,122 --> 00:13:37,002 Speaker 9: about the mail you get? For so much of it 209 00:13:37,082 --> 00:13:39,042 Speaker 9: every day, and it seems to come from all over 210 00:13:39,082 --> 00:13:41,162 Speaker 9: the world. I have many friends who still remember me, 211 00:13:41,602 --> 00:13:44,202 Speaker 9: Masian maclachlin. Yes, yeah, it's not too much trouble. Would 212 00:13:44,242 --> 00:13:46,322 Speaker 9: you mind saving some of the stamps of your letters. 213 00:13:47,202 --> 00:13:50,602 Speaker 3: The letter that got flagged in February nineteen forty two 214 00:13:51,082 --> 00:13:55,922 Speaker 3: was bound for Buenos Aires, purportedly from a woman in Portland, Oregon. 215 00:13:56,402 --> 00:14:00,482 Speaker 3: It mentioned a quote wonderful doll hospital where the sender 216 00:14:00,522 --> 00:14:04,882 Speaker 3: had left three quote old English dolls for repair. The 217 00:14:04,962 --> 00:14:10,562 Speaker 3: letter also included references to fish nets and balloons. Sounds 218 00:14:10,602 --> 00:14:16,122 Speaker 3: innocent enough, unless, of course, you're an FBI cryptographer, in 219 00:14:16,162 --> 00:14:19,442 Speaker 3: which case you would have determined that the three old 220 00:14:19,522 --> 00:14:24,162 Speaker 3: English dolls were code for warships, and that the doll 221 00:14:24,242 --> 00:14:27,922 Speaker 3: hospital was code for a shipyard where the vessels had 222 00:14:27,922 --> 00:14:32,802 Speaker 3: been repaired. The fish nets were submarine nets protecting ports 223 00:14:32,882 --> 00:14:37,322 Speaker 3: on the West coast, and the balloons suggested the monitoring 224 00:14:37,402 --> 00:14:39,202 Speaker 3: of defense installations. 225 00:14:40,042 --> 00:14:44,282 Speaker 8: It's not entirely clear whether the FBI opened up an 226 00:14:44,362 --> 00:14:48,282 Speaker 8: investigation based strictly on this first letter, but certainly in 227 00:14:48,442 --> 00:14:52,562 Speaker 8: general the FBI would have taken this as something to 228 00:14:52,562 --> 00:14:55,642 Speaker 8: pay attention to. They would have sent out leads to 229 00:14:56,562 --> 00:15:00,522 Speaker 8: its offices in the Pacific Northwest to see if these 230 00:15:00,562 --> 00:15:04,762 Speaker 8: details rang some memory bells with our agents out there. 231 00:15:05,882 --> 00:15:09,922 Speaker 3: Before long, the plot thickened. One day in June, a 232 00:15:10,002 --> 00:15:13,962 Speaker 3: woman named Mary E. Wallace greeted the postman as he 233 00:15:14,082 --> 00:15:18,202 Speaker 3: arrived at her door on a maple lined street in Springfield, Ohio. 234 00:15:18,722 --> 00:15:22,202 Speaker 3: Your letter to Argentina came back, the mail carrier told 235 00:15:22,202 --> 00:15:27,322 Speaker 3: her letter to Argentina. He handed Wallace an envelope marked 236 00:15:27,442 --> 00:15:31,282 Speaker 3: return to writer, addressed to a woman in Buenos Aires 237 00:15:31,602 --> 00:15:36,242 Speaker 3: named Ines Lopez de Molinali. The name and return address 238 00:15:36,282 --> 00:15:40,482 Speaker 3: in the upper left hand corner were indeed Wallace's, but 239 00:15:40,602 --> 00:15:44,002 Speaker 3: she had never laid eyes on this parcel. She opened 240 00:15:44,042 --> 00:15:47,522 Speaker 3: the envelope and saw a type written letter with her 241 00:15:47,682 --> 00:15:51,922 Speaker 3: signature at the bottom, forged but urily similar to her 242 00:15:51,962 --> 00:15:53,122 Speaker 3: own penmanship. 243 00:15:53,682 --> 00:15:56,402 Speaker 10: Part of it said, you asked me to tell you 244 00:15:56,482 --> 00:15:59,522 Speaker 10: about my collection. A month ago. I had to give 245 00:15:59,522 --> 00:16:01,682 Speaker 10: a talk to an art club, so I talked about 246 00:16:01,682 --> 00:16:04,682 Speaker 10: my dolls and figurines. The only new dolls I have 247 00:16:04,842 --> 00:16:08,042 Speaker 10: are three lovely Irish dolls. One of these three dolls 248 00:16:08,082 --> 00:16:10,002 Speaker 10: is an old fisherman with a net over his back, 249 00:16:10,522 --> 00:16:12,762 Speaker 10: another is an old woman with wood on her back, 250 00:16:12,882 --> 00:16:14,242 Speaker 10: and the third is a little boy. 251 00:16:14,962 --> 00:16:18,522 Speaker 3: Wallace had in fact given a talk to an art 252 00:16:18,562 --> 00:16:22,282 Speaker 3: club recently about her dolls, and she did in fact 253 00:16:22,322 --> 00:16:27,322 Speaker 3: have three new dolls, albeit not Irish ones. Reading the letter, 254 00:16:27,602 --> 00:16:31,122 Speaker 3: which also made reference to a mister Shaw whose quote 255 00:16:31,522 --> 00:16:35,842 Speaker 3: car was damaged but is being repaired now, Wallace couldn't 256 00:16:35,882 --> 00:16:38,762 Speaker 3: help but think of some flyers she'd seen in the 257 00:16:38,802 --> 00:16:43,802 Speaker 3: post office, the ones that warned about foreign espionage being 258 00:16:44,042 --> 00:16:47,682 Speaker 3: carried out via the mail service. Could the letter in 259 00:16:47,762 --> 00:16:51,802 Speaker 3: her hand actually have been written by a spy? It 260 00:16:51,922 --> 00:16:55,162 Speaker 3: seemed crazy, but she didn't want to take any chances. 261 00:16:55,962 --> 00:16:59,082 Speaker 3: Wallace marched down to the post office and spoke to 262 00:16:59,122 --> 00:17:02,602 Speaker 3: the postmaster. He then put her in touch with the FBI, 263 00:17:03,082 --> 00:17:07,522 Speaker 3: whose agents had no doubt that Wallace's suspicions were correct. 264 00:17:08,082 --> 00:17:12,602 Speaker 3: The Irish dolls were code name for aircraft carriers, the 265 00:17:12,682 --> 00:17:17,402 Speaker 3: net referred to anti torpedo protection, the wood on one 266 00:17:17,482 --> 00:17:22,122 Speaker 3: doll's back referred to a flight deck, and mister Shaw's 267 00:17:22,282 --> 00:17:26,402 Speaker 3: damaged car was code for a Navy destroyer that had 268 00:17:26,442 --> 00:17:29,682 Speaker 3: been repaired on the West Coast after its bow was 269 00:17:29,722 --> 00:17:33,642 Speaker 3: blown off at Pearl Harbor. By now the FBI knew 270 00:17:33,682 --> 00:17:36,722 Speaker 3: it was on to something. In addition to that first 271 00:17:36,882 --> 00:17:41,122 Speaker 3: letter from February, Wallace's letter was one of four others 272 00:17:41,162 --> 00:17:44,762 Speaker 3: that had been provided to the Bureau after being returned 273 00:17:44,842 --> 00:17:48,842 Speaker 3: to senders who hadn't actually sent them. 274 00:17:49,242 --> 00:17:53,042 Speaker 8: My understanding of why these letters were returned was that 275 00:17:53,082 --> 00:17:57,202 Speaker 8: the addresses themselves were not accurate, that there was a 276 00:17:57,402 --> 00:18:01,762 Speaker 8: problem in some way with the delivery for those addresses, 277 00:18:01,842 --> 00:18:05,082 Speaker 8: whether the postal code was wrong, or the street didn't 278 00:18:05,082 --> 00:18:07,962 Speaker 8: exist or something, and so as appeared that this was 279 00:18:08,002 --> 00:18:09,482 Speaker 8: an error on the spy's part. 280 00:18:09,802 --> 00:18:13,962 Speaker 3: The letters were typewritten, each addressed to Inez Lopez de 281 00:18:14,082 --> 00:18:18,522 Speaker 3: Molinali in Buenos Aires. They all bore signatures that resembled 282 00:18:18,642 --> 00:18:22,482 Speaker 3: those of the women being impersonated, and they all included 283 00:18:22,602 --> 00:18:28,162 Speaker 3: accurate information about the women's personal lives, including information about 284 00:18:28,202 --> 00:18:33,042 Speaker 3: their interest in dolls. The messages were deciphered by codebreakers, 285 00:18:33,442 --> 00:18:40,402 Speaker 3: most notably Elizabeth Friedman, famously known as America's first female cryptanalyst. 286 00:18:41,322 --> 00:18:45,562 Speaker 3: One of the letters, postmarked from Oakland, California, but purportedly 287 00:18:45,602 --> 00:18:49,402 Speaker 3: written by a woman in Colorado Springs, made reference to 288 00:18:49,682 --> 00:18:56,122 Speaker 3: quote seven real Chinese dolls. Another dated May nineteen forty two, stated. 289 00:18:56,282 --> 00:18:59,642 Speaker 10: I just secured a lovely Siamese temple dancer. It had 290 00:18:59,682 --> 00:19:02,442 Speaker 10: been damaged that is tour in the middle, but it 291 00:19:02,482 --> 00:19:05,042 Speaker 10: is now repaired and I like it very much. I 292 00:19:05,162 --> 00:19:07,642 Speaker 10: could not get a mate for this signed dancer, so 293 00:19:07,842 --> 00:19:10,842 Speaker 10: I am redressing just a small plane ordinary doll into 294 00:19:10,882 --> 00:19:11,922 Speaker 10: a second sciand doll. 295 00:19:12,762 --> 00:19:13,402 Speaker 3: Translation. 296 00:19:14,322 --> 00:19:18,242 Speaker 10: I just secured information of a fine aircraft carrier warship. 297 00:19:18,682 --> 00:19:21,642 Speaker 10: It had been damaged that is torpedoed in the middle, 298 00:19:22,322 --> 00:19:24,962 Speaker 10: but it is now repaired, and I like it very much. 299 00:19:25,602 --> 00:19:27,802 Speaker 10: They could not get a mate for this, So a 300 00:19:27,802 --> 00:19:31,882 Speaker 10: plane ordinary warship is being converted into a second aircraft carrier. 301 00:19:32,562 --> 00:19:36,682 Speaker 3: Yet another letter, postmarked from Seattle with the return address 302 00:19:36,722 --> 00:19:41,162 Speaker 3: of a woman in Spokane, reads as following, I must. 303 00:19:41,042 --> 00:19:44,282 Speaker 10: Tell you this amusing story. The wife of an important 304 00:19:44,282 --> 00:19:47,522 Speaker 10: business associate gave her an old German bisk doll dressed 305 00:19:47,522 --> 00:19:50,762 Speaker 10: in a Hulu grass skirt. It is a cheap, horrid thing. 306 00:19:51,122 --> 00:19:52,762 Speaker 10: I do not like it and wish we did not 307 00:19:52,922 --> 00:19:55,842 Speaker 10: have to have it about well. I broke this awful 308 00:19:55,882 --> 00:19:58,362 Speaker 10: doll last month. Now the person who gave the doll 309 00:19:58,442 --> 00:20:01,322 Speaker 10: is coming to visit us very soon. I walked all 310 00:20:01,362 --> 00:20:04,002 Speaker 10: over Seattle to get someone to repair it. No one 311 00:20:04,042 --> 00:20:07,202 Speaker 10: at home could or would try the task. Oh, I 312 00:20:07,242 --> 00:20:09,442 Speaker 10: expect all the damages to be repaired by the first 313 00:20:09,482 --> 00:20:10,362 Speaker 10: week in February. 314 00:20:10,962 --> 00:20:15,242 Speaker 3: When FBI agents consulted with naval authorities in Seattle, they 315 00:20:15,242 --> 00:20:18,322 Speaker 3: were able to figure out that the doll in this 316 00:20:18,482 --> 00:20:22,962 Speaker 3: instance referred to a worship damaged at Pearl Harbor, just 317 00:20:23,162 --> 00:20:26,882 Speaker 3: like mister Shaw's car from Mary Wallace's letter. 318 00:20:27,482 --> 00:20:31,322 Speaker 8: All of these letters appear to refer to a combination 319 00:20:31,722 --> 00:20:37,642 Speaker 8: of dolls, a state of disrepair or brokenness, and various 320 00:20:37,842 --> 00:20:41,842 Speaker 8: foreign nations. The ones that I'm familiar with are mostly 321 00:20:41,882 --> 00:20:45,482 Speaker 8: from the West coast, and I believe they were all 322 00:20:45,722 --> 00:20:50,482 Speaker 8: being mailed to someone in South America. These were not 323 00:20:50,522 --> 00:20:54,482 Speaker 8: being mailed directly to Japan, but rather we're going to 324 00:20:55,002 --> 00:20:57,602 Speaker 8: what would be known as a dead letter drop that 325 00:20:57,682 --> 00:21:01,162 Speaker 8: would collect mail for a different intelligence service. 326 00:21:02,002 --> 00:21:05,962 Speaker 3: How and why had the purported senders been chosen, What 327 00:21:06,122 --> 00:21:10,242 Speaker 3: was the connection between these individuals other than dolls, and 328 00:21:10,322 --> 00:21:14,322 Speaker 3: above all, who had actually written the letters. When the 329 00:21:14,362 --> 00:21:19,962 Speaker 3: agents reinterviewed Mary Wallace, she remembered something crucial. She had 330 00:21:20,042 --> 00:21:23,442 Speaker 3: corresponded with a doll shop owner in New York City, 331 00:21:23,842 --> 00:21:27,602 Speaker 3: and in one of those letters, she'd mentioned certain details 332 00:21:27,642 --> 00:21:31,282 Speaker 3: that also appeared in the mystery letter bearing her name. 333 00:21:31,842 --> 00:21:35,602 Speaker 3: What were the odds? Light bulbs started going off for 334 00:21:35,642 --> 00:21:39,722 Speaker 3: the others as well. The woman from Colorado Springs had 335 00:21:39,762 --> 00:21:43,842 Speaker 3: made purchases from the same New York doll dealer the 336 00:21:43,882 --> 00:21:48,722 Speaker 3: Spokane woman had actually met. Her agents compared the doll 337 00:21:48,962 --> 00:21:53,802 Speaker 3: vendor's typewritten correspondence with one of the typewritten letters returned 338 00:21:53,882 --> 00:21:58,522 Speaker 3: from Buenos Aires. It was a match. The FBI now 339 00:21:58,602 --> 00:22:03,442 Speaker 3: had a very compelling suspect. Her name, you guessed it, 340 00:22:04,002 --> 00:22:17,002 Speaker 3: Velvelee Dickinson. Dickinson was born Velvy Malvna Blucher in Sacramento 341 00:22:17,082 --> 00:22:21,282 Speaker 3: on October twelfth, eighteen ninety three. Her father hailed from 342 00:22:21,322 --> 00:22:25,522 Speaker 3: West Virginia and her mother from Kentucky, both of German descent. 343 00:22:26,242 --> 00:22:31,602 Speaker 3: She graduated in nineteen thirteen from Snell Seminary, a fashionable 344 00:22:31,722 --> 00:22:36,202 Speaker 3: girls preparatory school in Berkeley. Her academic pursuits then took 345 00:22:36,202 --> 00:22:41,402 Speaker 3: her to Sacramento Junior College, the University of California, and Stanford, 346 00:22:41,682 --> 00:22:46,202 Speaker 3: where she completed her undergraduate schooling in nineteen eighteen. She 347 00:22:46,242 --> 00:22:50,522 Speaker 3: wouldn't actually receive her bachelor's degree until nineteen thirty seven, 348 00:22:50,962 --> 00:22:55,602 Speaker 3: reportedly because there were several books she hadn't returned. In 349 00:22:55,682 --> 00:23:00,722 Speaker 3: nineteen twenty six, Velveley married a Philadelphia native named Lee Dickinson. 350 00:23:01,322 --> 00:23:04,082 Speaker 3: That same year, she landed a job in the filing 351 00:23:04,122 --> 00:23:08,962 Speaker 3: department of San Francisco's Crocker National Bank. She worked there 352 00:23:09,042 --> 00:23:13,082 Speaker 3: for two years before accepting a position with a California 353 00:23:13,162 --> 00:23:17,882 Speaker 3: brokerage firm. In nineteen thirty seven, the Dickinsons moved to 354 00:23:18,042 --> 00:23:21,762 Speaker 3: New York, where Velveley found work as a saleswoman in 355 00:23:21,802 --> 00:23:27,162 Speaker 3: the doll section of Bloomingdale's, a job that inspired loftier goals. 356 00:23:27,882 --> 00:23:31,642 Speaker 3: She soon left the famed department store to open a 357 00:23:31,722 --> 00:23:36,162 Speaker 3: doll business of her own, first at six eighty Madison Avenue, 358 00:23:36,522 --> 00:23:41,362 Speaker 3: then at seven fourteen Madison, and finally seven eighteen Madison, 359 00:23:41,762 --> 00:23:45,722 Speaker 3: where the Dickinsons lived above her eponymous shop in a 360 00:23:45,762 --> 00:23:50,362 Speaker 3: third floor apartment. This was no store for little girls. 361 00:23:50,922 --> 00:23:56,802 Speaker 3: Velvely catered to wealthy collectors, hobbyists, and even Hollywood celebrities 362 00:23:56,842 --> 00:24:02,122 Speaker 3: interested in rare and antique dolls from around the world. Ever, 363 00:24:02,242 --> 00:24:07,162 Speaker 3: the devoted husband, mister Dickinson handled the accounting until a 364 00:24:07,282 --> 00:24:10,922 Speaker 3: long standing heart ailment finally took his life on March 365 00:24:11,002 --> 00:24:16,482 Speaker 3: twenty ninth, nineteen forty three. Here's how the journalist Janet 366 00:24:16,522 --> 00:24:21,722 Speaker 3: Flanner described Vealvalle's entrepreneurship in the July nineteen forty four 367 00:24:21,842 --> 00:24:23,322 Speaker 3: issue of Harper's Bazaar. 368 00:24:23,882 --> 00:24:27,642 Speaker 2: In her dealings with her doll loving ladies, Missus Dickinson 369 00:24:27,722 --> 00:24:31,362 Speaker 2: seems remembered as grasping, but as one who sold no junk. 370 00:24:31,922 --> 00:24:35,002 Speaker 2: Sometimes she maybe cooked up a local color yarn to 371 00:24:35,082 --> 00:24:38,402 Speaker 2: make a good doll sell better bona fide doll history 372 00:24:38,482 --> 00:24:42,882 Speaker 2: being at best, pores such slight and attractive arata often 373 00:24:42,962 --> 00:24:46,602 Speaker 2: raised the selling price. A New England collector remembers her 374 00:24:46,642 --> 00:24:49,642 Speaker 2: for her thinness, her shrewdness, and the fact that he 375 00:24:49,682 --> 00:24:50,962 Speaker 2: felt he couldn't trust her. 376 00:24:52,322 --> 00:24:56,242 Speaker 3: As the FBI launched its investigation into Valveley Dickinson in 377 00:24:56,322 --> 00:25:00,922 Speaker 3: nineteen forty two, it all started to make sense. FBI 378 00:25:01,042 --> 00:25:02,682 Speaker 3: historian John Fox. 379 00:25:02,682 --> 00:25:06,162 Speaker 8: We found out that a significant period in the nineteen 380 00:25:06,242 --> 00:25:09,882 Speaker 8: thirty she had been involved in various business matters with 381 00:25:10,242 --> 00:25:13,082 Speaker 8: a lot of Japanese, that she was a member of 382 00:25:13,122 --> 00:25:18,122 Speaker 8: a Japanese kind of cultural friendship club, that she knew 383 00:25:18,362 --> 00:25:22,762 Speaker 8: some of the key Japanese diplomatic officials in the area. 384 00:25:23,282 --> 00:25:27,362 Speaker 3: Working at the California brokerage company in the mid nineteen thirties, 385 00:25:27,762 --> 00:25:31,882 Speaker 3: Dickinson had handled accounts for members of a Japanese community 386 00:25:32,322 --> 00:25:36,002 Speaker 3: in the state's Imperial Valley region. She also became a 387 00:25:36,002 --> 00:25:39,842 Speaker 3: member of the Japan American Society. Her dues to the 388 00:25:39,882 --> 00:25:43,762 Speaker 3: society one year were paid by an attache of the 389 00:25:43,962 --> 00:25:48,322 Speaker 3: Japanese consulate in San Francisco, where Dickinson had been a 390 00:25:48,402 --> 00:25:53,642 Speaker 3: frequent visitor. The FBI additionally learned that Dickinson had attended 391 00:25:54,002 --> 00:25:58,482 Speaker 3: prominent social gatherings in the company of Japanese naval and 392 00:25:58,562 --> 00:26:04,362 Speaker 3: government officials as Barbara Casey writes in her book Velvee Dickinson, 393 00:26:04,602 --> 00:26:09,682 Speaker 3: the dull woman spy quote. Velvee often dressed in authentic 394 00:26:09,802 --> 00:26:13,682 Speaker 3: Japanese attire at these various occasions, and it had been 395 00:26:13,762 --> 00:26:16,842 Speaker 3: reported that her name was in a book brought to 396 00:26:16,882 --> 00:26:22,002 Speaker 3: the United States from Japan by a Japanese spy. Dickinson 397 00:26:22,202 --> 00:26:26,362 Speaker 3: maintained her Japanese ties after moving to New York. The 398 00:26:26,402 --> 00:26:30,962 Speaker 3: FBI confirmed she visited Japanese cultural institutions in the city. 399 00:26:31,482 --> 00:26:35,082 Speaker 3: She had also cultivated a friendship with the Japanese consul 400 00:26:35,202 --> 00:26:40,322 Speaker 3: general and crossed paths with Ichiro Yokoyama, the Japanese naval 401 00:26:40,362 --> 00:26:41,842 Speaker 3: attache in Washington. 402 00:26:41,922 --> 00:26:42,162 Speaker 10: D C. 403 00:26:43,082 --> 00:26:47,202 Speaker 3: Dickinson's occupation in the rare doal trade sometimes took her 404 00:26:47,282 --> 00:26:51,082 Speaker 3: around the country for work. In the months after Pearl Harbor, 405 00:26:51,442 --> 00:26:54,442 Speaker 3: she had traveled to the Pacific coast with her husband. 406 00:26:55,002 --> 00:26:59,282 Speaker 3: Retracing their steps, the FBI found that the couple had 407 00:26:59,402 --> 00:27:03,122 Speaker 3: visited the areas from which the letters had been postmarked 408 00:27:03,482 --> 00:27:06,922 Speaker 3: on the dates they had been sent. Agents even located 409 00:27:07,242 --> 00:27:11,282 Speaker 3: the hotels where Dickinson had stayed. An examination of the 410 00:27:11,482 --> 00:27:16,402 Speaker 3: typewriters at these hotels showed they were the same typewriters 411 00:27:16,722 --> 00:27:20,402 Speaker 3: that someone had used to compose the Buenos Aires letters. 412 00:27:20,922 --> 00:27:24,522 Speaker 8: We did a deep dive into her background, and that 413 00:27:24,722 --> 00:27:28,802 Speaker 8: meant crossing the country and interviewing lots of people, and 414 00:27:28,882 --> 00:27:32,242 Speaker 8: so this took time. Spionis is a hard case to make, 415 00:27:32,402 --> 00:27:35,762 Speaker 8: and catching a spy red handed is often very important. 416 00:27:36,282 --> 00:27:39,402 Speaker 3: The FBI had to make sure its case was as 417 00:27:39,482 --> 00:27:44,482 Speaker 3: ironclad as possible before making a move. They surveiled Dickinson 418 00:27:44,682 --> 00:27:47,762 Speaker 3: for a year and a half. Maybe she was doing 419 00:27:47,802 --> 00:27:52,482 Speaker 3: more than just writing coded letters about dolls. Maybe they 420 00:27:52,482 --> 00:27:55,362 Speaker 3: could actually see her in the midst of a furtive 421 00:27:55,442 --> 00:28:00,242 Speaker 3: microfilm handoff or an incriminating teta tet, or maybe they 422 00:28:00,322 --> 00:28:04,242 Speaker 3: could at least identify accomplices willing to turn a dime. 423 00:28:05,202 --> 00:28:09,882 Speaker 3: No dice. Dickinson, it seemed, was a lone wolf, unless, 424 00:28:09,882 --> 00:28:12,442 Speaker 3: of course, her husband was in on the act before 425 00:28:12,482 --> 00:28:16,282 Speaker 3: he died. We'll come back to him a bit later. Still, 426 00:28:16,322 --> 00:28:20,482 Speaker 3: the agents collected any and all evidence they could. Crucially, 427 00:28:20,562 --> 00:28:24,202 Speaker 3: they got their hands on four one hundred dollars bills 428 00:28:24,242 --> 00:28:28,802 Speaker 3: Dickinson had spent and traced their provenance back to official 429 00:28:29,002 --> 00:28:30,682 Speaker 3: Japanese sources. 430 00:28:31,282 --> 00:28:35,162 Speaker 8: When the course of the investigation, our surveillance of Dickinson 431 00:28:35,322 --> 00:28:39,042 Speaker 8: becomes more regular and eventually more obvious. 432 00:28:39,042 --> 00:28:42,842 Speaker 3: Which brings us back to the afternoon of Friday, January 433 00:28:42,882 --> 00:28:45,242 Speaker 3: twenty first, nineteen forty four. 434 00:28:46,122 --> 00:28:49,922 Speaker 8: Our agents follow her into a bank and she in 435 00:28:49,962 --> 00:28:53,402 Speaker 8: the midst of getting a significant sum of money, so 436 00:28:53,442 --> 00:28:57,082 Speaker 8: I think fifteen thousands or more dollars out of her 437 00:28:57,082 --> 00:29:00,762 Speaker 8: safe deposit box. The FBI finally moves in. They had 438 00:29:00,842 --> 00:29:04,282 Speaker 8: received the authorization from the US Attorney to make an arrest. 439 00:29:04,482 --> 00:29:07,842 Speaker 8: At this point, it was time to stop the immediate 440 00:29:07,882 --> 00:29:11,802 Speaker 8: investigation and bring this forward to the court's. 441 00:29:12,042 --> 00:29:16,042 Speaker 3: Like we said at the top, Dickinson didn't make things easy. 442 00:29:16,722 --> 00:29:20,602 Speaker 8: The reports of the day suggest that Dickenson went into 443 00:29:20,642 --> 00:29:24,242 Speaker 8: a fit of rage, fighting with them to the point 444 00:29:24,282 --> 00:29:28,082 Speaker 8: that the agents basically had to secure and Handcoffer right 445 00:29:28,122 --> 00:29:30,362 Speaker 8: there in the bank and then take her, of course, 446 00:29:30,522 --> 00:29:31,682 Speaker 8: to be arraigned. 447 00:29:32,082 --> 00:29:36,082 Speaker 3: Bank officials would later suggest that newspaper accounts of Dickinson's 448 00:29:36,162 --> 00:29:40,162 Speaker 3: arrest were exaggerated, so we'll let you decide which version 449 00:29:40,242 --> 00:29:44,482 Speaker 3: to believe. In either case, Dickinson was charged with violating 450 00:29:44,642 --> 00:29:49,842 Speaker 3: wartime censorship laws. Weeks later, on February eleventh, a federal 451 00:29:49,882 --> 00:29:53,602 Speaker 3: grand jury indicted her for using a quote code and 452 00:29:53,802 --> 00:29:59,322 Speaker 3: device to surreptitiously transmit information that was quote vital to 453 00:29:59,362 --> 00:30:03,442 Speaker 3: our security and valuable to our enemies. As the FBI's 454 00:30:03,602 --> 00:30:08,402 Speaker 3: New York chief put it in court, US attorney told 455 00:30:08,402 --> 00:30:12,082 Speaker 3: the judge, this woman is a member of the japan Society, 456 00:30:12,402 --> 00:30:15,402 Speaker 3: and she has been associated with many persons high in 457 00:30:15,442 --> 00:30:19,202 Speaker 3: the Japanese diplomatic service in this country, as well as 458 00:30:19,242 --> 00:30:23,522 Speaker 3: with Japanese naval officers. The information contained in the letter 459 00:30:23,882 --> 00:30:28,042 Speaker 3: is vital to the interests of the United States. Dickinson 460 00:30:28,082 --> 00:30:31,922 Speaker 3: pleaded not guilty and was remanded on twenty five thousand 461 00:30:31,962 --> 00:30:35,002 Speaker 3: dollars bail to the House of Detention for Women on 462 00:30:35,082 --> 00:30:39,522 Speaker 3: Greenwich Avenue and Tenth Street. People who lived near Dickinson's 463 00:30:39,602 --> 00:30:44,802 Speaker 3: shop on Madison Avenue couldn't believe it. Velvele the petit, 464 00:30:45,082 --> 00:30:49,122 Speaker 3: frail looking doll proprietor a spy. You could have knocked 465 00:30:49,122 --> 00:30:53,122 Speaker 3: me over with a feather, one neighbor said. The prosecution's 466 00:30:53,202 --> 00:30:57,882 Speaker 3: case looked even stronger after FBI agents examined the over 467 00:30:58,122 --> 00:31:03,162 Speaker 3: fifteen thousand dollars seized from the Dickinson's safe deposit box, 468 00:31:03,802 --> 00:31:06,882 Speaker 3: and by the way, that amounts to over two hundred 469 00:31:06,962 --> 00:31:10,082 Speaker 3: and fifty thousand dollars in twenty twenty four. 470 00:31:11,482 --> 00:31:14,642 Speaker 8: We would have taken the numbers of the bills and 471 00:31:14,682 --> 00:31:16,722 Speaker 8: then traced them to see if we could figure out 472 00:31:16,722 --> 00:31:20,242 Speaker 8: where they came from. Our investigation at least showed that 473 00:31:20,562 --> 00:31:24,922 Speaker 8: some thirteen thousand dollars of it could be traceable to Japanese. 474 00:31:24,362 --> 00:31:29,562 Speaker 3: Sources, sources like say a captain stationed in the Japanese 475 00:31:29,642 --> 00:31:34,042 Speaker 3: Naval Inspector's office in New York City. For Dickinson, the 476 00:31:34,082 --> 00:31:37,882 Speaker 3: stakes were high. If convicted, she faced up to ten 477 00:31:38,082 --> 00:31:41,842 Speaker 3: years in prison and a ten thousand dollars fine. But 478 00:31:42,082 --> 00:31:45,722 Speaker 3: if the authorities expected her to be cooperative, they were 479 00:31:45,762 --> 00:32:00,162 Speaker 3: sorely mistaken because Dickinson had a much different story to tell. 480 00:32:00,322 --> 00:32:03,602 Speaker 3: Unlike the case of the Duquane spy ring, the FBI 481 00:32:03,762 --> 00:32:07,762 Speaker 3: hadn't actually caught Valvely Dickinson in the act. There was 482 00:32:07,802 --> 00:32:11,842 Speaker 3: no concealed camera footage showing her passing off military secrets 483 00:32:11,842 --> 00:32:15,322 Speaker 3: to a double agent, no sighting of her accepting cash 484 00:32:15,362 --> 00:32:20,562 Speaker 3: from a Japanese official, but the circumstantial evidence was pretty damning, 485 00:32:21,202 --> 00:32:24,122 Speaker 3: not least of all the thirteen thousand dollars from her 486 00:32:24,162 --> 00:32:27,962 Speaker 3: safe deposit box with the enemy's fingerprints all over it. 487 00:32:28,522 --> 00:32:32,042 Speaker 8: We of course questioned Dickenson about where she had gotten 488 00:32:32,042 --> 00:32:35,002 Speaker 8: the money, and of course, in questioning her, a lot 489 00:32:35,042 --> 00:32:36,882 Speaker 8: of her stories really didn't hold up. 490 00:32:37,362 --> 00:32:40,522 Speaker 3: First, Dickinson told the arresting agents that the money had 491 00:32:40,562 --> 00:32:45,802 Speaker 3: come from insurance companies, a savings account, and her doll business. 492 00:32:45,842 --> 00:32:51,002 Speaker 3: In a subsequent interrogation, Dickinson changed her tune. The money 493 00:32:51,042 --> 00:32:55,282 Speaker 3: actually belonged to her late husband, she said, claiming to 494 00:32:55,322 --> 00:32:58,202 Speaker 3: have found it hidden in the bed after he died. 495 00:32:58,882 --> 00:33:01,762 Speaker 3: Belvile couldn't be sure where the money had come from, 496 00:33:02,122 --> 00:33:05,722 Speaker 3: but she believed it may have come from the Japanese 497 00:33:05,762 --> 00:33:10,322 Speaker 3: consul in New York City. The FBI wasn't buying it. 498 00:33:10,842 --> 00:33:16,562 Speaker 8: She has been minimally cooperative in questioning, trying to basically 499 00:33:16,642 --> 00:33:20,042 Speaker 8: pass off the messages and the money to her husband, 500 00:33:20,482 --> 00:33:24,242 Speaker 8: and in turn, of course, the FBI sought to either 501 00:33:24,322 --> 00:33:28,082 Speaker 8: confirm or deny each of her statements, and so as 502 00:33:28,122 --> 00:33:33,922 Speaker 8: our investigation continued, the circumstantial evidence against her grew. 503 00:33:34,682 --> 00:33:37,042 Speaker 3: In the grand scheme of things, you could argue that 504 00:33:37,122 --> 00:33:43,202 Speaker 3: Dickinson's spycraft was small potatoes, diishing minor information about the 505 00:33:43,322 --> 00:33:47,322 Speaker 3: repair of damaged naval ships and a handful of letters 506 00:33:47,322 --> 00:33:51,362 Speaker 3: that hadn't even made it to their intended recipients. Surely 507 00:33:51,402 --> 00:33:54,442 Speaker 3: the enemy had better spies on the ground than that, 508 00:33:55,442 --> 00:33:57,482 Speaker 3: or maybe not so much. 509 00:33:58,002 --> 00:34:00,482 Speaker 8: As far as the Japanese went, because most of their 510 00:34:00,522 --> 00:34:06,122 Speaker 8: intelligence officers were Japanese nationals when we declared war in 511 00:34:06,202 --> 00:34:10,442 Speaker 8: nineteen forty one after the Pearl Harbor attack. Their ability 512 00:34:10,482 --> 00:34:13,602 Speaker 8: to operate in the United States itself was minimal, and 513 00:34:13,682 --> 00:34:17,402 Speaker 8: so their best bet were these few things like Dickinson 514 00:34:17,522 --> 00:34:22,842 Speaker 8: trying to basically sneak out some key information to her 515 00:34:22,882 --> 00:34:26,922 Speaker 8: intelligence contacts by the means that she used. The Japanese 516 00:34:27,082 --> 00:34:30,082 Speaker 8: did not have an effective means of getting intelligence from 517 00:34:30,122 --> 00:34:30,962 Speaker 8: the United States. 518 00:34:31,802 --> 00:34:34,722 Speaker 3: That's why it was so important for US officials to 519 00:34:34,842 --> 00:34:39,042 Speaker 3: bring Dickinson to justice. At first, the Attorney General moved 520 00:34:39,082 --> 00:34:42,242 Speaker 3: where a quick trial, but it kept getting pushed back. 521 00:34:42,762 --> 00:34:47,522 Speaker 3: Dickinson meanwhile changed lawyers. She was initially represented by Arthur 522 00:34:47,642 --> 00:34:51,962 Speaker 3: Garfield Hayes, the famed civil liberties attorney, but his firm 523 00:34:52,082 --> 00:34:55,202 Speaker 3: parted ways with Dickinson after just one week, and she 524 00:34:55,322 --> 00:34:59,042 Speaker 3: ended up with counsel appointed by the court. The delays 525 00:34:59,202 --> 00:35:02,882 Speaker 3: enabled the prosecution to strengthen its hand and turn up 526 00:35:02,922 --> 00:35:06,642 Speaker 3: the pressure. On May fifth, nineteen forty four, in a 527 00:35:06,642 --> 00:35:11,042 Speaker 3: f federal Manhattan courtroom, the US Attorney for the Southern 528 00:35:11,082 --> 00:35:16,082 Speaker 3: District of New York, James McNally, approached the bench and said. 529 00:35:16,882 --> 00:35:20,682 Speaker 11: The original indictment against this woman charged that she sent 530 00:35:20,762 --> 00:35:24,602 Speaker 11: but one letter to Argentina in violation of censorship regulations. 531 00:35:25,282 --> 00:35:28,042 Speaker 11: We now charged that she sent a number of letters 532 00:35:28,082 --> 00:35:32,202 Speaker 11: to Argentina, some of them containing information concerning movements and 533 00:35:32,322 --> 00:35:36,802 Speaker 11: repairs of battleships after Pearl Harbor. We charged that she 534 00:35:36,922 --> 00:35:39,802 Speaker 11: did this for money received from Japanese agents. 535 00:35:41,002 --> 00:35:45,362 Speaker 3: This was a major development. Not only had Dickinson run 536 00:35:45,402 --> 00:35:48,922 Speaker 3: a foul of the censorship statues, but she would also 537 00:35:49,242 --> 00:35:53,922 Speaker 3: face trial for espionage, a capital offense that made her 538 00:35:54,042 --> 00:35:57,882 Speaker 3: the first American woman to be so accused since the 539 00:35:57,922 --> 00:36:00,842 Speaker 3: outbreak of World War Two. According to the New York 540 00:36:00,922 --> 00:36:05,922 Speaker 3: Daily News, which sensationally reported death looked across a federal 541 00:36:05,962 --> 00:36:10,842 Speaker 3: courtroom at the dull woman of Madison Avenue, Dickinson, wearing 542 00:36:10,882 --> 00:36:14,922 Speaker 3: a small black hat pinned with fake white flowers, appeared 543 00:36:15,122 --> 00:36:20,322 Speaker 3: unmoved as the prosecution read aloud its lengthy indictment accusing 544 00:36:20,362 --> 00:36:24,122 Speaker 3: her of selling out her country for cash. At one point, 545 00:36:24,162 --> 00:36:27,482 Speaker 3: she raised a hand to her mouth to stifle a yawn. 546 00:36:28,082 --> 00:36:33,482 Speaker 3: Her plea remained unchanged. Not guilty. Who are all these people? 547 00:36:33,642 --> 00:36:36,722 Speaker 3: She snarled as she was led away, motioning toward the 548 00:36:36,882 --> 00:36:41,802 Speaker 3: FBI agents and reporters gathered in the courtroom. Dickinson's trial 549 00:36:41,962 --> 00:36:45,722 Speaker 3: was now set for Monday, June twelfth. It got pushed 550 00:36:45,762 --> 00:36:50,882 Speaker 3: back yet again to Monday July thirty. First. Government witnesses 551 00:36:50,922 --> 00:36:54,522 Speaker 3: from the San Francisco Bay area began traveling to New York, 552 00:36:54,962 --> 00:36:59,202 Speaker 3: including a former private secretary to the Japanese Consul general. 553 00:37:00,282 --> 00:37:03,682 Speaker 3: On July twenty eighth, three days before the proceedings were 554 00:37:03,682 --> 00:37:08,562 Speaker 3: set to begin, Dickinson was back in court. Observers detected 555 00:37:08,602 --> 00:37:13,362 Speaker 3: a noticeable change in her demeanor. The self assured defendant 556 00:37:13,522 --> 00:37:16,442 Speaker 3: they'd laid eyes on a few weeks earlier was gone. 557 00:37:17,042 --> 00:37:21,002 Speaker 3: In her place, they saw a timid little woman, anxiously 558 00:37:21,082 --> 00:37:26,482 Speaker 3: twisting a handkerchief behind her back. McNally, the u S attorney, 559 00:37:26,802 --> 00:37:31,202 Speaker 3: stepped forward and surprised the court room with an unexpected 560 00:37:31,322 --> 00:37:36,322 Speaker 3: turn of events. The doll woman wished to change her plea. 561 00:37:36,882 --> 00:37:40,722 Speaker 3: One of Dickinson's court appointed lawyers piped up to confirm 562 00:37:41,202 --> 00:37:45,322 Speaker 3: that his client had reached this decision independently with the 563 00:37:45,322 --> 00:37:48,642 Speaker 3: approval of her counsel. They'd reached a deal with the 564 00:37:48,682 --> 00:37:54,082 Speaker 3: prosecution for Dickinson to accept the lesser censorship charge, which 565 00:37:54,122 --> 00:37:57,802 Speaker 3: carried a maximum sentence of ten years behind bars and 566 00:37:57,882 --> 00:38:02,122 Speaker 3: a fine of up to ten thousand dollars. McNally explained 567 00:38:02,122 --> 00:38:06,242 Speaker 3: his rationale for agreeing to take espionage off the table. 568 00:38:07,002 --> 00:38:10,402 Speaker 11: The proof against the defendant was highly circumstantial in nature 569 00:38:11,082 --> 00:38:14,322 Speaker 11: in the absence of her confederates now in Japan. In 570 00:38:14,362 --> 00:38:17,762 Speaker 11: my judgment, the defense to be offered by the defendant 571 00:38:18,202 --> 00:38:20,322 Speaker 11: was to have been that the letters were written by 572 00:38:20,322 --> 00:38:25,442 Speaker 11: her husband, Lee, who died March twenty ninth, nineteen forty three. 573 00:38:26,242 --> 00:38:29,962 Speaker 3: And that McNally told the judge would leave the jurors 574 00:38:30,042 --> 00:38:34,882 Speaker 3: with enough room for reasonable doubt. As for Dickinson, what 575 00:38:35,002 --> 00:38:37,922 Speaker 3: had prompted her eleventh hour change of heart. 576 00:38:38,522 --> 00:38:42,522 Speaker 8: When the government came back and indicted her for espionage. 577 00:38:42,602 --> 00:38:45,322 Speaker 8: It actually put the idea of the death penalty on 578 00:38:45,682 --> 00:38:49,082 Speaker 8: the case. Now, it's not clear that the government necessarily 579 00:38:49,122 --> 00:38:51,642 Speaker 8: would pursue that part of it would have had to, 580 00:38:52,082 --> 00:38:54,922 Speaker 8: you know, if they linked some of that information to 581 00:38:55,322 --> 00:38:57,962 Speaker 8: potential ship sinkings. And things like this. This was the 582 00:38:58,002 --> 00:39:02,802 Speaker 8: time of war, and she was trying to provide sensitive 583 00:39:03,162 --> 00:39:06,002 Speaker 8: information to the people that we were at war with, 584 00:39:06,082 --> 00:39:10,482 Speaker 8: and so this considered a potentially capital crime. The severity 585 00:39:10,522 --> 00:39:13,762 Speaker 8: of that certainly up the ante, and I'm sure what 586 00:39:13,962 --> 00:39:18,002 Speaker 8: leads to her eventually pleading to the lesser charge. 587 00:39:18,402 --> 00:39:22,882 Speaker 3: After pleading guilty, Dickinson finally admitted to FBI agents that 588 00:39:23,002 --> 00:39:26,842 Speaker 3: she was at least partly behind the letters. Her methods 589 00:39:26,882 --> 00:39:30,442 Speaker 3: were hardly very cloak and dagger. She had simply gleaned 590 00:39:30,482 --> 00:39:34,682 Speaker 3: information about the warships by chatting up unwitting citizens near 591 00:39:34,762 --> 00:39:38,842 Speaker 3: the navy yards in Seattle and San Francisco. She claimed 592 00:39:38,922 --> 00:39:42,762 Speaker 3: the instructions on coding the letters, as well as twenty 593 00:39:42,762 --> 00:39:46,162 Speaker 3: five thousand dollars in one hundred dollars bills, had been 594 00:39:46,242 --> 00:39:50,562 Speaker 3: passed to her husband by the Japanese naval attache Ichiro 595 00:39:50,722 --> 00:39:55,962 Speaker 3: Yokuyama in November nineteen forty one. The handoff went down 596 00:39:56,122 --> 00:39:59,962 Speaker 3: in her dollshop, she said, and mister Dickinson kept the 597 00:40:00,002 --> 00:40:02,322 Speaker 3: money hidden in his bed until he died. 598 00:40:03,322 --> 00:40:06,002 Speaker 8: She's still, you know, wants to kind of hold to 599 00:40:06,082 --> 00:40:09,802 Speaker 8: that facet of it was my husband and plays into 600 00:40:09,842 --> 00:40:13,402 Speaker 8: the censorship charge in that if it was espionage, they 601 00:40:13,402 --> 00:40:15,522 Speaker 8: would have had to show that she was doing this. 602 00:40:15,882 --> 00:40:19,442 Speaker 8: They could show that she was involved in this transmission 603 00:40:19,482 --> 00:40:22,922 Speaker 8: of information and that she had sent the letters out, 604 00:40:23,122 --> 00:40:26,202 Speaker 8: but she could still, in a sense, hold on to 605 00:40:26,322 --> 00:40:28,922 Speaker 8: the fiction that this was her husband and not her. 606 00:40:29,562 --> 00:40:34,802 Speaker 3: The FBI's investigation, of course, suggested otherwise. The Bureau found 607 00:40:34,882 --> 00:40:39,562 Speaker 3: that Velvey knew Yokuyama well, whereas her husband didn't know 608 00:40:39,682 --> 00:40:43,402 Speaker 3: him at all. A doctor for the ailing mister Dickinson 609 00:40:43,802 --> 00:40:48,522 Speaker 3: claimed that his mental faculties were impaired at the time. Furthermore, 610 00:40:48,602 --> 00:40:53,562 Speaker 3: mister Dickinson's nurse and the couples made both emphatically denied 611 00:40:53,642 --> 00:40:57,802 Speaker 3: that any money was hidden in his bed. Whatever the truth, 612 00:40:57,922 --> 00:41:01,802 Speaker 3: you could argue that Dickinson got off easy. Here's what 613 00:41:01,842 --> 00:41:05,842 Speaker 3: the judge said at her sentencing on August fourteenth, nineteen 614 00:41:05,962 --> 00:41:06,642 Speaker 3: forty four. 615 00:41:07,482 --> 00:41:10,122 Speaker 1: It is hard to believe that some people do not 616 00:41:10,242 --> 00:41:13,122 Speaker 1: realize that our nation is engaged in a life and 617 00:41:13,202 --> 00:41:17,002 Speaker 1: death struggle. Any help given to the enemy means the 618 00:41:17,082 --> 00:41:21,482 Speaker 1: death of American boys who are fighting for our national security. You, 619 00:41:22,082 --> 00:41:26,002 Speaker 1: as a natural born citizen, having a university education and 620 00:41:26,162 --> 00:41:30,602 Speaker 1: selling out to the Japanese was certainly engaged in espionage. 621 00:41:31,002 --> 00:41:33,602 Speaker 1: I think that you have been given every consideration by 622 00:41:33,642 --> 00:41:36,642 Speaker 1: the government. The indictment to which you have peded guilty 623 00:41:36,802 --> 00:41:41,722 Speaker 1: is a serious matter. It borders close to treason. I 624 00:41:41,842 --> 00:41:45,402 Speaker 1: therefore sentence you to the maximum penalty provided by the law, 625 00:41:45,922 --> 00:41:49,042 Speaker 1: which is ten years in a ten thousand dollars fine. 626 00:41:50,482 --> 00:41:53,842 Speaker 3: Velvly Dickinson was ordered to serve her time at the 627 00:41:53,882 --> 00:41:59,202 Speaker 3: Federal Correctional Institution for Women at Alderton, West Virginia. There 628 00:41:59,282 --> 00:42:03,042 Speaker 3: she crossed paths with Unice Kennedy, who served as a 629 00:42:03,082 --> 00:42:06,322 Speaker 3: social worker at the prison in nineteen fifty The two 630 00:42:06,402 --> 00:42:11,562 Speaker 3: women maintained a correspondence after Dickinson's conditional release on April 631 00:42:11,602 --> 00:42:15,842 Speaker 3: twenty third, nineteen fifty one, and Kennedy helped her find 632 00:42:15,882 --> 00:42:20,562 Speaker 3: work as an administrative assistant. Velvely was even reported to 633 00:42:20,602 --> 00:42:26,402 Speaker 3: have attended Kennedy's marriage to Sergeant Shrever in nineteen fifty three. 634 00:42:26,442 --> 00:42:30,882 Speaker 3: After that, the historical record on Dickinson goes cold. It 635 00:42:30,962 --> 00:42:35,362 Speaker 3: seems she more or less faded into obscurity until her death, 636 00:42:35,802 --> 00:42:39,682 Speaker 3: which some sources pegged to the early nineteen sixties and 637 00:42:39,762 --> 00:42:43,682 Speaker 3: others as late as nineteen eighty. All these years later, 638 00:42:43,882 --> 00:42:48,682 Speaker 3: the truth of Dickinson's motivations still evades us. In his 639 00:42:48,842 --> 00:42:54,362 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty seven book Women Who Spied, AA Holing wondered 640 00:42:54,402 --> 00:42:58,122 Speaker 3: if Dickinson had simply been driven by quote a blind 641 00:42:58,242 --> 00:43:02,642 Speaker 3: passion for a country other than one's own. Janet Flanner 642 00:43:02,722 --> 00:43:07,042 Speaker 3: suggested two additional possibilities in her nineteen forty five for 643 00:43:07,282 --> 00:43:08,722 Speaker 3: Harper's bizarre profile. 644 00:43:09,682 --> 00:43:12,922 Speaker 2: The second motive for becoming a spy might have been 645 00:43:12,962 --> 00:43:17,442 Speaker 2: mister Dickinson's failing health, a desperate reason for secretly earning 646 00:43:17,482 --> 00:43:21,562 Speaker 2: extra monies in order to meet every costly medical emergency. 647 00:43:22,122 --> 00:43:26,162 Speaker 2: But mister Dickinson was dying quite inexpensively of heart failure 648 00:43:26,162 --> 00:43:30,082 Speaker 2: at home. The third reason for Missus Dickinson's having become 649 00:43:30,322 --> 00:43:35,242 Speaker 2: interested as charge an espionage could have been venality. The 650 00:43:35,242 --> 00:43:39,362 Speaker 2: Federal Bureau of Investigation findings on Missus Dickinson led them 651 00:43:39,402 --> 00:43:42,162 Speaker 2: to suppose that she sold her soul to Japan for 652 00:43:42,242 --> 00:43:43,962 Speaker 2: sheer cold cash. 653 00:43:44,322 --> 00:43:47,082 Speaker 3: John Fox of the FBI thinks she could have been 654 00:43:47,082 --> 00:43:49,002 Speaker 3: motivated by all of the above. 655 00:43:49,602 --> 00:43:54,682 Speaker 8: There seems to have been a connection to Japan, to 656 00:43:54,802 --> 00:43:59,042 Speaker 8: Japanese culture, and to the Japanese people such that she 657 00:43:59,242 --> 00:44:02,242 Speaker 8: seems to have been supporting it, at least through some 658 00:44:02,402 --> 00:44:06,362 Speaker 8: sympathy for their cause. It's not known that she was 659 00:44:06,402 --> 00:44:10,042 Speaker 8: a deep idiologue though in that sense, and so some 660 00:44:10,082 --> 00:44:12,562 Speaker 8: of it could have been money. And as far as 661 00:44:12,562 --> 00:44:17,042 Speaker 8: spies go, sympathy and some kind of financial remuneration often 662 00:44:17,082 --> 00:44:18,042 Speaker 8: go hand in hand. 663 00:44:18,882 --> 00:44:23,442 Speaker 3: The doll spy affair was hardly the most significant FBI 664 00:44:23,562 --> 00:44:27,082 Speaker 3: case during World War Two. Sure, the intel in those 665 00:44:27,202 --> 00:44:30,122 Speaker 3: letters would have been useful to the Japanese had they 666 00:44:30,162 --> 00:44:34,402 Speaker 3: actually received it, but as far as intelligence goes, it 667 00:44:34,522 --> 00:44:37,882 Speaker 3: was a drop in the bucket. Still, it reflected the 668 00:44:38,002 --> 00:44:43,922 Speaker 3: growing ambitions, capabilities, and importance of America's domestic intelligence service 669 00:44:44,202 --> 00:44:47,722 Speaker 3: at a key moment in its history. And quite frankly, 670 00:44:47,922 --> 00:44:49,522 Speaker 3: it's just a really great yarn. 671 00:44:50,042 --> 00:44:54,762 Speaker 8: It's fascinating just because of some of the unique aspects 672 00:44:54,762 --> 00:44:57,642 Speaker 8: of the case. I can't think of any other spy 673 00:44:57,762 --> 00:45:02,562 Speaker 8: case where someone used a basically, you know, maked code 674 00:45:02,722 --> 00:45:06,962 Speaker 8: based on antique dolls that make this unique and can 675 00:45:06,922 --> 00:45:09,762 Speaker 8: tinue to give us something of interest to look at 676 00:45:09,802 --> 00:45:10,402 Speaker 8: even today. 677 00:45:12,202 --> 00:45:15,082 Speaker 4: All right, after each episode, we go to our resident 678 00:45:15,402 --> 00:45:18,602 Speaker 4: casting directors Aaron and ask if we were to make 679 00:45:18,762 --> 00:45:21,962 Speaker 4: a film version of this story. Who would you cast? 680 00:45:22,202 --> 00:45:23,202 Speaker 3: Yeah, Who's Velveley? 681 00:45:23,842 --> 00:45:24,042 Speaker 9: Yeah. 682 00:45:24,082 --> 00:45:25,922 Speaker 5: I thought about this a bunch and I was like, Okay, 683 00:45:25,962 --> 00:45:28,282 Speaker 5: I want a certain vibe, I want a certain like feel, 684 00:45:28,442 --> 00:45:30,362 Speaker 5: And so then I started thinking about different actresses that 685 00:45:30,402 --> 00:45:32,202 Speaker 5: could pull it off. In the two leading candidates I 686 00:45:32,202 --> 00:45:35,282 Speaker 5: came down to two was Diane Krueger from National Treasure 687 00:45:35,322 --> 00:45:36,522 Speaker 5: and Inglorious Bastard's. 688 00:45:36,762 --> 00:45:37,482 Speaker 1: Yeah right. 689 00:45:37,522 --> 00:45:39,162 Speaker 5: I thought she could have that vibe where you would 690 00:45:39,162 --> 00:45:41,082 Speaker 5: believe she was a dollmaker but also believed she was 691 00:45:41,082 --> 00:45:43,082 Speaker 5: a spy. I was like, okay, And then the other 692 00:45:43,122 --> 00:45:44,362 Speaker 5: one was, if you want to go more of a 693 00:45:44,362 --> 00:45:46,602 Speaker 5: fun route with it, was Amy Adams. I just always 694 00:45:46,642 --> 00:45:47,802 Speaker 5: like her in period pieces. 695 00:45:47,962 --> 00:45:49,002 Speaker 4: This will be here, Oscar. 696 00:45:49,362 --> 00:45:51,802 Speaker 6: I was also thinking Amy Adams. 697 00:45:51,402 --> 00:45:53,202 Speaker 4: Too, Yes, I love that. 698 00:45:53,722 --> 00:45:55,922 Speaker 6: The whole time, I was like, Amy Adams would kill 699 00:45:55,962 --> 00:45:56,442 Speaker 6: this role. 700 00:45:56,682 --> 00:45:58,122 Speaker 4: I don't know if you can see that. I wrote 701 00:45:58,162 --> 00:46:00,882 Speaker 4: Amy Adams as well, we got the trifecta. 702 00:46:01,002 --> 00:46:01,922 Speaker 2: Let's call her agent. 703 00:46:03,162 --> 00:46:06,242 Speaker 4: How about FBI historian John Fox? Do you have anyone 704 00:46:06,282 --> 00:46:06,602 Speaker 4: for him? 705 00:46:07,082 --> 00:46:09,442 Speaker 5: Mulling over this one, I didn't come up with somebody 706 00:46:09,442 --> 00:46:12,002 Speaker 5: that I absolutely loved for it, but I was like 707 00:46:12,122 --> 00:46:17,282 Speaker 5: debating and then like I would say, because he's a historian, 708 00:46:17,362 --> 00:46:20,042 Speaker 5: I tended to go a little academic in with this, 709 00:46:20,162 --> 00:46:22,242 Speaker 5: and I've done it before with these people, but I 710 00:46:22,282 --> 00:46:25,202 Speaker 5: always really love Paul Giamatti as an academic, and so 711 00:46:25,442 --> 00:46:27,362 Speaker 5: I just could see Paul Giamatti in the role. 712 00:46:27,882 --> 00:46:30,842 Speaker 4: Look up a picture of FBI historian John Fox. I 713 00:46:30,842 --> 00:46:32,762 Speaker 4: think you nailed it. Nailed Oh really? 714 00:46:32,842 --> 00:46:33,762 Speaker 1: Oh nice? I did not. 715 00:46:34,002 --> 00:46:34,682 Speaker 4: I did do blind. 716 00:46:34,722 --> 00:46:37,722 Speaker 5: This is casting blind, So that's cool. Would you guys 717 00:46:37,722 --> 00:46:39,762 Speaker 5: have any very special characters from this one, because I 718 00:46:39,802 --> 00:46:40,322 Speaker 5: definitely did. 719 00:46:40,482 --> 00:46:43,882 Speaker 6: I'm going to say, one of the antique dolls to 720 00:46:44,042 --> 00:46:47,762 Speaker 6: the antique dollars in the window, what about. 721 00:46:47,482 --> 00:46:47,962 Speaker 1: You, Jason? 722 00:46:48,202 --> 00:46:51,362 Speaker 4: So Mary Wallace is the one who who had the 723 00:46:51,882 --> 00:46:56,202 Speaker 4: letter to Argentina come back and then turned over the 724 00:46:56,282 --> 00:47:00,522 Speaker 4: mysterious letter to her postmaster. So she's the one where 725 00:47:00,562 --> 00:47:04,482 Speaker 4: I'm just thinking, how creepy a scam. Someone has mimicked 726 00:47:04,522 --> 00:47:08,722 Speaker 4: your penmanship, written stuff that has some details that were 727 00:47:08,762 --> 00:47:11,122 Speaker 4: in your life, and you just get this letter. You 728 00:47:11,162 --> 00:47:13,362 Speaker 4: must think, Am I going crazy here? 729 00:47:13,522 --> 00:47:13,762 Speaker 1: Yeah? 730 00:47:13,842 --> 00:47:14,282 Speaker 8: Totally. 731 00:47:14,402 --> 00:47:16,842 Speaker 6: You fully would think you're going insane. It does feel 732 00:47:17,082 --> 00:47:19,002 Speaker 6: I don't mean to be like this is a novel, 733 00:47:19,442 --> 00:47:21,602 Speaker 6: but it's like there's always those like the Girl on 734 00:47:21,642 --> 00:47:24,682 Speaker 6: the Train, the Girl on the airplane. Like, I feel 735 00:47:24,682 --> 00:47:27,562 Speaker 6: like a novel about a woman getting letters that she 736 00:47:27,762 --> 00:47:31,722 Speaker 6: doesn't remember writing and she's going crazy and then it 737 00:47:31,762 --> 00:47:35,402 Speaker 6: turns out it was just part of an international spy conspiracy. 738 00:47:35,522 --> 00:47:37,082 Speaker 3: Like, let's write this novel. 739 00:47:37,362 --> 00:47:38,922 Speaker 5: I think you should definitely keep that one in the 740 00:47:38,922 --> 00:47:41,362 Speaker 5: back pocket because that one is just a genius idea. 741 00:47:41,402 --> 00:47:43,082 Speaker 5: I love the idea of a woman like not necessarily 742 00:47:43,082 --> 00:47:45,642 Speaker 5: the woman going crazy part, but the letter writing is 743 00:47:45,682 --> 00:47:48,162 Speaker 5: what's driving her insaying like is this me, Like you 744 00:47:48,162 --> 00:47:49,722 Speaker 5: have physical evidence in front of you. 745 00:47:50,002 --> 00:47:50,242 Speaker 1: Yeah. 746 00:47:50,282 --> 00:47:52,362 Speaker 5: From my very special character, I could not help but 747 00:47:52,442 --> 00:47:56,482 Speaker 5: love Charles Bonaparte, son of Jerome Bonaparte, Napoleon Bonaparte's grand nephew. 748 00:47:56,682 --> 00:47:56,802 Speaker 8: Right. 749 00:47:56,842 --> 00:47:58,442 Speaker 5: I had even looked up this kid and I was like, 750 00:47:58,522 --> 00:48:00,322 Speaker 5: is he somebody who I should like? And I was like, 751 00:48:00,402 --> 00:48:02,402 Speaker 5: he was an Attorney General of us. Love that under 752 00:48:02,402 --> 00:48:06,242 Speaker 5: tr But also he was nicknamed Charlie the crook Chaser 753 00:48:06,482 --> 00:48:08,562 Speaker 5: when he was like before, yeah, that was a nickname. 754 00:48:08,602 --> 00:48:10,682 Speaker 5: And also he was a major activist for the rights 755 00:48:10,682 --> 00:48:13,522 Speaker 5: of black people in Baltimore. This guy starts what would 756 00:48:13,522 --> 00:48:15,962 Speaker 5: become the FBI, that just seems wild to me. So 757 00:48:16,162 --> 00:48:18,202 Speaker 5: I was like, Wow, the FBI really came a long way, 758 00:48:18,442 --> 00:48:19,362 Speaker 5: or I guess the opposite. 759 00:48:19,482 --> 00:48:23,402 Speaker 4: My favorite Napoleon descendant story is Dana. I learned about 760 00:48:23,442 --> 00:48:26,562 Speaker 4: this on Noble Blood About is it just. 761 00:48:26,562 --> 00:48:29,842 Speaker 3: Joe Joseph New Jersey Joe, Yeah, New Jersey. 762 00:48:29,922 --> 00:48:32,562 Speaker 4: Joe just moved to New Jersey, lived out in a 763 00:48:32,602 --> 00:48:33,322 Speaker 4: good life here. 764 00:48:34,882 --> 00:48:37,362 Speaker 6: Yeah. It's a very fun because you're like, well, when 765 00:48:37,442 --> 00:48:41,362 Speaker 6: Napoleon was overthrown, he had installed his brother as like, 766 00:48:41,602 --> 00:48:44,922 Speaker 6: you know, a very prominent royal, but then Europe was 767 00:48:44,922 --> 00:48:47,242 Speaker 6: like get out anyone with the last name Bonaparte, get 768 00:48:47,242 --> 00:48:49,362 Speaker 6: out of here, and so he just went to New Jersey, 769 00:48:51,122 --> 00:48:52,162 Speaker 6: start fresh. 770 00:48:51,882 --> 00:48:52,602 Speaker 1: In New Jersey. 771 00:48:55,242 --> 00:48:58,402 Speaker 4: Very special episodes is made by some very special people. 772 00:48:58,962 --> 00:49:02,722 Speaker 4: Today's episode was written by Joe Pompeo. You might remember 773 00:49:02,802 --> 00:49:05,722 Speaker 4: him from past episodes like The Great Gatsby Won earlier 774 00:49:05,762 --> 00:49:08,922 Speaker 4: this month and the Case of the Missing Novelists. Our 775 00:49:08,962 --> 00:49:12,562 Speaker 4: show is hosted by Danish Wartz, Zaron Burnett, and Jason English. 776 00:49:13,042 --> 00:49:16,642 Speaker 4: Our producer is Josh Fisher. Editing and sound design by 777 00:49:16,682 --> 00:49:21,602 Speaker 4: Josh Fisher and Jonathan Washington, Mixing and mastering by Beheve Frasier. 778 00:49:22,162 --> 00:49:26,202 Speaker 4: Original music by Alise McCoy. Research in fact checking by 779 00:49:26,322 --> 00:49:30,882 Speaker 4: Joe Pompeo and Austin Thompson. Show logo by Lucy Quintania. 780 00:49:31,642 --> 00:49:35,082 Speaker 4: Our executive producer is Jason English. If you'd like to 781 00:49:35,082 --> 00:49:37,202 Speaker 4: email the show, you can reach us at Very Special 782 00:49:37,242 --> 00:49:40,442 Speaker 4: Episodes at gmail dot com. We'll be back next week 783 00:49:40,482 --> 00:49:44,562 Speaker 4: with an episode set in North Korea. Very Special Episodes 784 00:49:44,642 --> 00:49:46,602 Speaker 4: is a production of iHeart Podcasts.