WEBVTT - Do Animals Have a Sense of Humor? 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.400 Hey, please take a second and leave us a review 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:06.279 on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to the podcast. 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:10.920 Thanks a lot. Hey, welcome to Science Stuff, good production, 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:14.200 enuff iHeartRadio. I'm hor hit Cham and today we are 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:19.120 asking whether animals are funny. Well, we know they can 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:22.439 be funny to us, but are they in on the joke? 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:27.200 Do animals have a sense of humor? We're going to 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:31.120 be talking to animal experts, including a scientist involved in 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.920 the largest study ever done on whether animals joke around 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:39.880 with each other. So to the laughter and come find 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.720 the punchline with us as we answer the question to 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:51.639 animals have a sense of humor? Enjoy. Hey everyone, We're 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:55.280 gonna set up today's episode with a conversation with doctor 0:00:55.480 --> 0:01:00.720 Mark Beckoff about the argument that animals understand humor. As 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.160 you'll hear, there hasn't been a lot of science looking 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:06.120 into this question, but from what we know of animals, 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:09.880 at least most mammals, doctor Beckhoff thinks animals should be 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.760 able to get jokes or at least find some things funny. 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:19.679 Here's my conversation with doctor Mark Beckoff. Well, thank you 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.559 doctor Beckoff for joining us. My pleasure can you please 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:23.759 te us your and what do you do? 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.720 Yeah, my name is Mark Beckoff. I'm a professor of 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:31.680 ecology and evolutionary biology at the University of Colorado and Boulder, 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:36.039 and I'm interested in the general field of cognitive ethology, 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:40.240 which is a study of animal minds, their thoughts, their feelings. 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:43.039 You know, what's in them? How do they work? What 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:44.679 do they know? What do they feel? 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:48.040 Now, as I mentioned, there hasn't been a lot of 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:52.360 science looking at humor in animals, but doctor Beckoff's fifty 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:57.400 plus years studying animals tells them they surely must. Well, 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:01.240 today we're interested in one particular coudient ability, which is 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.840 humor and understanding humor and having a sense of humor. 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:07.600 So we'll just open with a straight question, which is 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.160 do you think animals have a sense of humor? 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.960 You know, I think about it a lot. I think 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:16.520 they do. In fact, I feel sure they have their 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:20.520 own sort of species typical sense of humor, But like 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.519 anything else, it's hard to know. I would say I'm 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:27.040 sure they do, but we haven't quite done the studies 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:28.080 that would show that. 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:31.239 According to doctor Beckoff, a lot of people who own 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.519 pets or spend a lot of time observing animals would 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:37.919 say animals have a sense of humor, but so far 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:42.080 this is mostly anecdotal. For instance, here are some examples 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:45.600 of when doctor Becoff's dogs act that kind of funny. 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.520 My dog Jethrow, I have some examples from him and 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.800 other dogs with whom I lived. So one example was 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:55.400 he used to run around when there were people there 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:59.200 and maybe he wasn't getting the attention that he wanted. 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:02.480 Oh you're not paying attention to me, run around shaking 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.840 his rope or a towel or something in this and 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:08.679 then stop and look to see if people were saying, Oh, 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:10.600 isn't he cute or isn't that me? 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:12.800 You know, it's a. 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:17.040 Tension getting that way, I see, playing keep away. I mean, 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.000 my dogs would do this all the time, run up 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.919 with an object, sometimes a rope, you know, play tug 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:24.440 a war, and the minute I would reach for the rope, 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:27.240 they would run away and turn around to make sure 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:28.800 that I'm looking at them. 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:29.720 I see. 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.800 So another example when I had two dogs defeating next 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.720 to one another, and the dog who ate faster would 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:38.920 have an empty bowlt and he would run to the 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:42.280 front door bark, and then when the other dog came 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.120 to see who was at the front door, and there 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:47.200 wasn't anyone there. The first dog would go back and 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:48.120 steal his food. 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.160 You know, it's like there's some evidence there that the 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:56.120 animal is aware that you have expectations about what's going 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:58.960 to happen, and then the dog does something to subvert 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:03.000 those expectations or kind of play with your expectations about 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:03.720 what should happen. 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:05.800 Absolutely, that's exactly right. 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.200 So this is the first clue that maybe animals do 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:12.520 have a sense of humor. Psychologists think that humor, at 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:15.520 least in humans, is based on the idea of having 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:21.080 expectations about a situation and then having something break those expectations. 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:24.040 It also has to do with having theory of mind, 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.880 meaning having a sense of what other individuals are thinking 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.200 and what they expect to happen. We know animals have 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.760 both of those things. We made a whole episode about 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.880 whether animals have consciousness a few months ago, so check 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:38.479 that out if you want to learn more. But the 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:42.279 problem in this case is that humor is particularly hard 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:48.600 to verify. Why is it hard to prove that animals 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:49.599 have a sense of humor? 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.160 Well, I mean, in one sense, just because you can't 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.000 validate it. I can't say, well, you're trying to humor 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:56.120 me or my friends. 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:56.719 I see. 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.080 So you're saying it's hard to validate because you can't 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:01.800 ask the ad animal, did you do that because you 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:02.640 think it was funny? 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:03.320 Yeah? 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.720 Yeah. In other words, part of having a sense of 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:10.680 humor is being funny on purpose. For example, you might 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.719 say or do something that other people find funny, but 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.800 that doesn't mean necessarily that you have a sense of humor. 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:19.720 You might be doing it by accident, and it's kind 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:23.080 of hard to ask animals about their intentions. Now, you 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:25.919 might be thinking, what if we see an animal laughing 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.640 at something, wouldn't that mean they have a sense of humor? 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:33.560 Is there any evidence that animals laugh? 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.880 Yeah, there's been a lot of research on rodents rats 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:41.600 who produce a vocalization that when you use a sonogram 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.480 to look at sort of the components of the vocalization, 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.599 it looks like human laughter. And there's some evidence that 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:52.920 some great apes might laugh. Oh really, there's laughing hyaenas. 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.400 You know, people have talked about laughing hyaenas. 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.159 So there's vocalization, but is there evidence that it's a 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:02.680 response to a subversion of expectation or is it just 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:04.720 a vocalization that could mean something else. 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:08.039 I don't think anybody's looked at that. That would be 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.119 a really interesting study. 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:17.240 I guess such a study as no laughing matter. Okay, 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.120 joking aside. This did make me wonder if it would 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.440 be possible to design an experiment that should you whether 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:28.080 animals have a sense of humor or not. What would 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:30.359 it take to do such an experiment, Like if you 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:33.200 had to try to figure out if dogs have a 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:35.800 sense of humor, what would that experiment look like? And 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:37.919 I gave you ten million. 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.320 Dollars, I would take the money and run. 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:44.680 Now that's funny, doctor Beckoff, I know that would be 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:45.880 my sense of humor. 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.120 I mean, you really have to look at animals, but 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.360 set it up to see whether, say, do they do 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:56.840 things out of context that could be surprising with the 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:01.480 intention of attracting other animals because they think what you're 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:03.159 doing is interesting. 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.240 For example, like if you see a dog severting the 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:10.320 expectation of another dog for their pleasure for play, right. 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.720 Or making the other individual inquisitive, you know, having them 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:16.400 really go God, you know what's going on here? 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:19.880 As it turns out, We're going to talk to another 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:22.800 scientist in the next segment that was involved in a 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:26.400 study that did just this experiment, So stick around for that. 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.800 But first I wanted to ask doctor Beckoff, why would 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.800 it make sense for animals to develop a sense of 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:37.800 humor at all? What's the point of being funny? Why 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:42.200 do you think humor has evolved in us and potentially 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.800 going further back in other animals. 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:47.800 Well, I think it's enjoyable. It could be very positive, 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.920 and it's fun to laugh. Laughing is good, smiling's good. 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:55.320 It could be to alleviate a situation that could get nasty, 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.440 to wait a pass time. So I may have seen 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:02.080 this with wild wolves and dogs or free ranging dogs 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.240 and coyotes and foxes who used to live in my 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:07.400 neighborhood when I lived in the mountains. They just sometimes 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:11.120 do something that it doesn't make any sense. The only 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:15.240 tenable explanation is they're trying to humor another animal. They're 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.440 trying to lighten up the load, let's go play. And 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.040 there's been people who argue that having a sense of 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:25.640 humor is common among social species because of this social 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:30.200 effect it could have for increasing group cohesion. So I 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:34.560 like that argument as an evolutionary biologist, because it would 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:39.240 be surprising to think in gregarious social living non humans 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:43.520 that those emotions, those capacities haven't evolved. 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:44.160 I see it. 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.959 Because they're really important for forming and maintaining groups. 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:50.320 We know it has a social use. Humor has a 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:54.320 social use in groups. So it would be our expectation 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.200 that animals probably have a sense of humor. Yeah, which 0:08:57.200 --> 0:09:00.760 means it would be funny. If they didn't, would be funny, 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.080 it would be odd. Okay, we're now going to get 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:08.000 to the first ever scientific result that shows that non 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:11.720 human animals can have a sense of humor. When we 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:13.440 come back, we're going to talk to one of the 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.400 scientists involved in this study, which looked at a form 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:21.199 of humor scientists call playful teasing. Do chimpanzees and a 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:24.200 ragged tans joke around with each other? I kid you not. 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.480 We'll get to that answer, so stay with us. We'll 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:41.440 be right back. Okay, welcome back. We're talking about whether 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.280 animals have a sense of humor, and so far we've 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.800 talked about the argument for the idea that animals, at 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:51.040 least social animals have evolved to be funny as a 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:53.959 way to bond with each other. I mean, remember the 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.040 last time someone told you a joke and you laughed 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.680 a lot, you probably liked that person a little more 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.800 or felt a little cl to them. But as we 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:04.240 also talked about, there hasn't been a lot of science 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:09.640 done to see if this argument is actually true until recently. 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.599 In twenty twenty four, scientists from the Universities of California, 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.720 Los Angeles, and San Diego published the result of one 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:20.200 of the largest studies ever done that shows that non 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:24.240 human animals do joke around. To tell us about this, 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:26.480 I reached out to the lead author of the study, 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:31.559 doctor Isabelle Lamer. Well, thank you, doctor Lahmer for joining 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:32.000 us here. 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:32.400 Welcome. 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:34.040 Can you please tellus who you are and what do 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:34.319 you do. 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:38.800 Yeah, So, I'm a cognitive biologist and I'm currently working 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.400 at the Max Planck Institute of Animal Behavior. So I'm 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:48.440 basically studying intelligence and emotions in animals, specifically great apes. 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:54.079 Doctor Lahmer and her colleagues doctor Sasha Winkler, Philrico Rossano, 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.800 and Erica Cartmeil looked at the behavior of four different 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:01.240 great aid species to see if they showed signs they 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:04.240 had a sense of humor. Now, as we talked about before, 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:06.800 it's kind of hard to ask an animal to tell 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.000 you something funny, or to tell them a joke and 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:13.280 see if they laugh. So doctor Lahmer and her colleagues 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:18.000 looked at a behavior related to humor called playful teasing. 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:20.160 What does that mean? 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:24.640 Playful teasing so, for example, often and withdrawal in children. 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:28.119 So basically, when a child actually offers you an object 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.920 and the mother, for example, is reaching for it, but 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.600 in the second as the mother actually reaches for it, 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.520 this child draws the object back and laughs and looks 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:43.160 at the mother. Yeah, and this can happened repeatedly, right, So, 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:47.319 playful teasing is basically when you tease someone for fun. 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.480 You might poke at them playfully or offer them something 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:52.920 they want and then yank it away at the last second. 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:57.480 It's playful behavior, but it shows a certain sense of humor. 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:03.840 So playful teasing requires similar cognitive processes. 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.760 What did you mean by that? What cognitive abilities. 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.400 That you anticipate others responses, like as I mentioned with 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.120 the offer and withdrawal. Actually, there is quite a lot 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:14.800 of things going on in the brain during that because 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:18.200 in the moment that the child actually presents the object, 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.880 it knows that the mother will reach for it, so 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.280 it will kind of foresee the action right that the 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.280 mother will reach for it. And it knows also in 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.240 this moment that when I draw it back, I will 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:32.959 create a moment of surprise in the mother. I see, 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:35.920 so this is actually what makes it funny, right, while 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:39.880 the child then also laughs, I'm kind of surprising you 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.880 with my action. I'm pretending to give it to you, 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:45.800 but actually I'm drawing it back to see you surprise. 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:51.840 So playful teasing is a form of humor because it 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:55.640 requires you to know that the other individual is expecting something, 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:58.920 and it also requires you to know what it's expected. 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.680 Also understanding social norms, so I need to know what 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.800 is allowed what is not allowed. I mean children, for example, 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.160 tis a lot by actually doing things that are not. 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.280 Allowed, right, and they find that funny. 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:12.839 Yes, children usually. 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:16.160 Laugh by doing things that are not allowed, like, for example, 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:19.600 reaching towards a hot stove even though they know that 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.560 it's not allowed, but just reaching into that direction, checking 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.079 the mother's face, and then quickly drawing the hand back, 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.319 you know, and doing that repeatedly kind of in a 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:28.440 provocatis way. 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:31.599 I have to sort of think about what's going to 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:33.960 happen in the future, and I also have to put 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:37.280 myself in the mindset of the other person or the 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:38.239 other individual. 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:40.880 Yeah, so this is called gury of mind. 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.120 And you said, we see this in pre verbal infants, 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:46.280 meaning like really really young kids. 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.880 Yes, it starts at the age of eight months already. 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:53.360 Oh, I see, at eight months, you're already a pain 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:53.760 in the bud. 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.720 Yeah. And to some extent, yes, at. 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.400 Eight months you're already spressing out your mother on purpose. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.439 In other words, you can think of playful teasing as 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:09.480 joking around. I see it's a Q and I engaged 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:13.880 in an interaction and we both find it funny, or 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:15.240 only one of us find it funny. 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:18.600 I mean, it can go both ways, right. 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:22.400 It can be teazing that is more on the provocative side, 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:26.520 which just one party finds funny and interesting while the 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:30.440 other party is really annoyed. But oftentimes this also can 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.200 lead to mutual enjoyment as well. 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:37.720 Uh huh, And doctor Lahmer argues this joking around has 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:38.360 a purpose. 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.800 Yeah, this also brings you actually to the function of teasing, 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:46.440 which is actually that there's mutual enjoyment and the social 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:50.560 bonds are strengthened, so teazing is a form to basic 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.000 Kelly strengthen their relationship. 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:57.800 And so doctor Lahmer and her colleagues try to see 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:01.600 if you could find playful teasing in a four species 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:06.720 of great apes, warnables, rangutans, gorillas, and chimpanzees. 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:13.080 So we basicallyly set out to find instances of teasing 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:17.560 in videos. Actually, so we were basically looking through a 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:23.240 bunch of videos to find events that were basically neither 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.320 aggression nor play, but something in between. 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.680 According to doctor Lammer, scientists had studied teasing before, where 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.360 one animal pokes at another animal as a form of 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:38.200 aggression or bullying, and they had also studied playfulness before, 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:42.200 which is when two animals played together, But playful teasing 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:43.880 is something different. 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:49.560 So researchers, for example, they were studying agonistic forms of 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.040 cheesing like harassment or bullying, but never. 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:54.440 The playful side of teasing. 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:58.520 The playful side was kind of usually studied to as play, 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:01.160 but playful teas is not play. 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.080 It's a different behavior. 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:06.280 So it's kind of in the gray zone between play 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.760 and aggression. That's why we really put a lot of 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:14.240 effort in developing a coding scheme that would actually show 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:19.360 exactly what playful teasing is. And we developed certain criterias 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:21.360 to define playful teasing. 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:24.560 What the third lumber is saying is that to study 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.000 the videos of the four species of apes, she and 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.600 her colleagues came up with a checklist or a list 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:34.000 of criteria of what counts as playful teasing or joking around. 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:39.280 So then you made a definition of playful teasing. What 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.520 was in that definition, like, what was the criteria? 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:45.680 So the criteria of playful teasing is that the teasing 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.800 is actually one sided, so as a metrical so from 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:53.040 one individual towards the other. That it has playful elements 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:58.440 but also provocative in elements. One important aspect is also 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:03.600 that after the teasing action is basically performed, that the 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:08.080 actor is actually usually looking towards the target, so they 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.640 are interested in the reaction of the other, really interested 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.199 in the reaction of the other. And another criteria is 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:20.280 that the behavior is repetitive usually and also especially when 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:21.680 the target is not reacting. 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.040 They also do elaboration of behavior. 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.720 That means that they show different forms of behavior, so 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:28.480 the behavior is also very flexible. 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:31.720 I see, like if the other individual doesn't react, they'll 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:33.480 try it again in a different way. 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:36.040 Yes, exactly so. 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:39.840 And oftentimes there's even they might start with a poke, 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.640 then it might become a hit. If that doesn't lead 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:44.720 to anything, they might even then jump. 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:45.320 On the individual. 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:49.200 So sometimes we could also observe instances like. 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.160 This, I see, I feel like you're almost asking, can 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:54.280 animals be annoying on purpose? 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:56.880 Yeah? 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.920 I mean there is definitely an annoying component to it. 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:05.399 Yes, being funny can be annoying sometimes if you're interested 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.199 in seeing what this humorous, playful teasing behavior actually looks like. 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.040 Doctor Lahmer has posted clips of these videos on her 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:15.760 YouTube channel YouTube dot com slash doctor Isabel Lammer. 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.480 Of course, we don't know about the internal world right, 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.439 about the emotions that they feel while they do that, 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.280 But this is all stuff for future work to look 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:29.920 into that. But for that you would also meet other methods. 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:33.600 So this was just the initial study to really show 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:37.320 that our closest relatives also do show forms of humor, 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:42.119 because before no one was actually speaking about humor in animals, 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:47.200 at least not from a science perspective, right, So. 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:49.720 Doctor Lamber and her colleagues did this study, and now 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:53.080 the question is what did they find do apes display 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:57.240 a sense of humor or playful teasing? When we come back, 0:18:57.359 --> 0:18:59.800 I'll ask doctor Lammer what they found and what does 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:03.000 all means about whether animals have a sense of humor? 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:06.560 In other words, what's the puchline? So to stay with us, 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:19.840 we'll be right back. Hey, welcome back. We're talking about 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.520 whether animals have a sense of humor or whether it's 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:28.399 only people that are intentionally funny. To answer this question, 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.280 doctor Isabelle Lahmer and her colleagues did one of the 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:35.119 first and largest studies of playful teasing in great apes, 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:40.320 looking at the behavior of bonaboes, orangutans, chimpanzees, and gorillas. 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.720 As we talked about, playful teasing is a very specific 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:47.240 behavior that the researchers argue requires you to have a 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.880 sense of humor, or at least it uses the same 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:54.120 cognitive abilities as having a sense of humor. It's basically 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.879 joking around. Now, the question is what did they find 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:02.400 in this study? So what did you find in this 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:05.120 study that you did with your colleagues. What were the results? 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:09.919 We found that all four species of great apes playfully teased, 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.000 So in the bonobos, in the chimpanzees and the gorillas 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:17.880 and the orangutans, they all showed similar forms of teasing. 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:23.280 So we found eighteen different teasing behaviors, and all of 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:28.400 those behaviors were provocative. They were intentional, involved, often playful. 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:33.120 Elements were asymmetric, and when they did a teasing action 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.720 that they actually also checked, you know, how the target 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:37.520 was reacting. 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:42.520 Yes, the researchers found that apes do joke around, and 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:44.960 they saw one of the total signs that they are 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:48.240 joking around, which is that when one animal would tease another, 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.439 they would look back and check to see how the 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:54.359 other animal reacted, as if they were saying, huh, huh, 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:59.080 what do you think is that funny? The researchers also 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:03.000 found that this behave we're usually happened during particular moments 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:04.520 in the apes' lives. 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:09.600 What we also found is that playful teasing, similar to 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:13.760 teasing and infants, also occurs during relaxed contexts. 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:16.400 What does that mean that they usually. 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:19.520 Do it when they are, for example, resting or sleeping 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:22.879 and the group is basically quite calm nice? 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:28.760 Then is actually the time usually when you can observe behaviors. 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:31.000 Like this interesting? Does that tell you that they do 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.680 it out of boredom maybe, or some form of boredom. 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:38.760 Yeah. I mean even Shane Goodle already described in one 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:41.800 of her books when she studied the Gombat chimpanzees that 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:47.640 adult chimpanzees were basically resting and juveniles were then playfully 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:50.159 jumping on them while the others were resting, you know, 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:54.119 and from behind. So I mean this is apparently a 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:55.080 thing eventually. 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:57.640 Yeah, And that's definitely a thing in my house when 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:01.320 my kids were younger, it was hard to get some rest, yeah. 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:05.320 Yeah, in general, yeah, yeah, And it often also happens 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:09.600 then for example, two individuals are engaged in a certain behavior. 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:12.520 For example, two apes are booming each other and the 0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:15.760 teaser is actually then disturbing. This is also similar to 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:19.560 teasing and infants, right, because the mother might read a book, right, 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:22.440 and in a moment, the child, for example, puts the hand. 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:24.679 In the book. Yeah, and does that repeatedly, you know, 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:25.320 to tindle. 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:31.280 I mean that's part of the fun, yeah, yeah, to 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:33.960 interrupt somebody while they're doing something. Yeah. 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:38.399 And apes also had stealing, for example, of objects, and 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:41.679 this was not just like I steal something and then 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:44.840