WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Friends of Dorothy 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:06.560 Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:11.040 there's Chuck and there's Jerry, and this is short Stuff, 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.480 the Slang edition. That's right. And while we are not 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:19.079 friends of Dorothy, we are friends of friends of Dorothy. Yeah. Well, 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:21.919 put man. I wanted to say, hey, we're friends of 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:26.599 Dorothy because it seems like it could mean that you're 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.360 just uh endorsed the l g t b Q community. 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:32.120 But that's not what it means. No, it doesn't. It 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:35.880 means you're straight up member of the l g b 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:40.559 t Q community. That's right. Um. And it's slang, like 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.400 I said, it doesn't. It doesn't have any direct meaning, 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:46.879 or does it. We're going to find out, um. But 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:49.680 the whole reason that you would have slang kind of 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:55.200 a coded phrase for being gay is just part of 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:57.880 the shameful past of how gay people were treated in 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:02.120 in Europe and America up until very recently, of course, 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:05.360 and so there was code that they would use amongst 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:09.120 themselves so they wouldn't uh you know, all men are 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:12.280 bad things could happen if if word was out about them, 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:16.080 so shamefully they did need code. But like you said 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.120 in this article that you put together Um, let's move 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.039 on to the more fun stuff, which is where this 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:25.479 came from? Right, Who is Dorothy? Who is Dorothy? That's 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.400 the great question, And actually it's never really been answered, 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:32.520 to tell you the truth. Um. Supposedly the whole uh 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.200 that that that phrase friend of Dorothy to mean a 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:38.360 gay person has been around since the World War two era, 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:42.280 says the Pride website. Okay, it's a legit source. But 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:44.080 then we head on over to the Wizard of Oz 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.000 fan blog friends of Dorothy and they say it doesn't 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:52.840 appear in any gay slang books or academic reviews of 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.760 gay slang in the twentieth century, which is really weird 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.440 because it definitely did exist. It wasn't you know, it 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.320 wasn't just me and people I knew using that, like, 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.680 it was widespread. And exactly how old it is really 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:08.960 kind of matters, doesn't it. Well, Yeah, because we're gonna 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.679 talk about some Dorothy candidates. Uh, I feel like we 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.119 should probably talk about these first three and then take 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:17.960 our break and get to the man, the big whammy. 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.960 You know what, you know, exactly what you're doing. I 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:24.919 appreciate that the first Dorothy we're going to talk about 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.880 and there's some legitimacy here for sure, because it was 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:31.960 a socialite named Dorothy King in twentieth century London, early 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:36.640 twenties century London. Uh. And Dorothy King, very early on 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:40.400 in London was a friend of the gay community, especially 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.760 gay men. She would have these big parties. Uh. And 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.880 apparently they would use friend of Dorothy or friend of 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.440 Mrs King uh to refer to themselves as slang to 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:52.960 get them in these parties or just to talk about them. Yeah. 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.359 The fact that there's also a friend of Mrs King 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:57.640 meaning the same thing a gay man in the early 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:02.080 twentieth century, mid twenties century, that really supports the possibility 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:06.080 that she was the original Dorothy I agree. Okay, the 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:09.040 next one is Dorothy Parker. She's also a great contender. 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.280 She's coming out of not just New York, but also 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:13.760 Los Angeles and the ninet thirties and then later on 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.240 in the sixties. Those are the two times that she 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:20.000 really had a huge impact and was kind of almost 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:24.040 an icon in the gay community because, like Dorothy King, 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:27.720 she surrounded herselves with gay people at a time when 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.760 gay people were very much persecuted. Um. And she was 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.440 also a huge ardent supporter of the civil rights movement 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:38.760 as well. Yeah, I did not know about her sixties. Comeback, Um, 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:42.600 I know all about the thirties Dorothy Parker was kind of, uh, 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:44.840 kind of into researching that for a little while quite 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:47.760 a few years ago, but did not know about the sixties. 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:50.640 L A version doesn't surprise me. Pretty cool because I 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:55.320 can see her then, uh, sitting around a mid century 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.920 modern pool doing the same thing she was rocking in 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:02.880 the thirties in New York. Yes, but she married a 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:07.400 man who was openly bisexual. He referred to himself as 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:11.080 quote queer, as a billy goat, so she was. She 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:17.000 was very much in the running as a possible Dorothy yes. Um. 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:21.720 And then lastly, the third of the first three Dorothy's 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:24.440 was a woman named Dorothy Dean. She was an African 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:28.039 American socialite in New York, and she was very much 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:32.679 in the orbit of the gay community, especially through Andy 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:36.479 Warhol in his gang. And was not like, um, you know, 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:40.320 she right exactly sounding She's kind of like hung out 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:42.200 with Warhol every once a while, like she was part 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.480 of Warhol's inner circles, would appear in as films, like 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.680 she was a bit of amused for him and then 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:52.279 also as if her cool cred in the art community 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.720 and gay community couldn't get any better. She was a 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.080 door I guess a doorman is what they would have 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:02.520 called her in the um un liberated early sixties. Yeah, 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:04.560 if you wanted to be cool back then, you could 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.560 work the door at one of two places, either CBGB 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:10.000 or Max's Kansas City. And she worked the door at 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:13.320 Maxus Kansas City, which was a music club and and 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.120 barn hang out of the coolest of the cool in 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:20.279 the sixties and seventies. Yes, so she knew everybody, and 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.120 she also had a lot of gay friends too, So 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:27.600 it's entirely possible that she was the Dorothy that we 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:31.240 spoke of. She couldn't have been the Dorothy if this 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:34.640 This phrase has been around since World War Two. But 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:36.520 the one of the things that I figured out about this, 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:39.359 chuck is that, um, it could have been any of 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:41.960 these Dorothys. All these Dorothys could have could you could 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:44.440 You could use that phrase and it would still hold 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.920 water um at different times depending on the context too. 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:51.840 So it's not like any of these are wrong necessarily. 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:54.440 They all went, I agree, But there is one that's 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:58.120 actually the winner. That's right, And we'll introduce this winner, 0:05:58.360 --> 0:05:59.960 and I'll bet you know who it is, right if 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:31.240 to this and stop? Okay, Chuck, it's time for the 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:38.520 big reveal. Who is Dorothy? For reels somewhere over the rainbow, 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.400 keep going, I'm not familiar. I don't know the rest 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:46.200 of the words. Something cries, there's way up, high way up. Hi, 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:50.800 So who cries? Didn't want to cry? No, I think 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:54.720 you've misheard it. I think you're right. Uh, we're talking 0:06:54.720 --> 0:07:00.400 about Dorothy Gail, the character in L. Frank Baum's Wizard 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:04.719 of Oz book series. Um. And there's a few big 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.960 time reasons for this, one really big time reason. But 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.000 the movie Wizard of Oz is special in the l 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:14.080 g tb Q community because, Um, Dorothy kind of comes 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:16.800 out in her own way and undergoes this transformation from 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:21.320 a very um, sort of boring, black and white world 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:25.360 to a brilliant, colorful, rainbow filled world. Yeah, and that's 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:27.920 just if you're reading the book. She also in the book, 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:32.320 um be friends and in Companies, three men, none of 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:36.040 whom are traditionally masculine or manly. And there's even a 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.800 part in the book well not the Wizard of Oz. 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.600 But one of the other books Um from the Oz series, 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:46.480 where um another character tells her Dorothy, you have some 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:50.680 queer friends, and she says the queerness doesn't matter so 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:53.880 long as they're friends. I don't know about that part, 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:56.240 because that's not what queer meant. No. But but the 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.960 point is this is whether it meant no, They certainly 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.680 didn't mean queer as in gay. They just meant strange, unusual. 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.200 And that's I think we're queer applied to gay people, 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.840 especially in the mid mid twentieth century. That's where it 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.480 came from. It men, you're you're weird, you're off, or whatever, 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.200 and Dorothy saying it doesn't matter how they're off. It 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:18.520 doesn't even matter that they're off. It just matters that 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:21.800 they're friends. And I think if you felt alienated, especially 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.520 if you fell alienated because you were gay, uh, that 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:26.960 something like that would have resonated with you. And I 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.880 think that's that's why a lot of gay people it's 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.400 very it's easy to stereotype at this point because there's 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.040 probably a lot of gay people who can't stand Wizard 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:39.080 of Oz, but there's a lot of gay people who 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:42.520 do love with Wizard of Oz. That's right. And one 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.319 of the big reasons why is because the star of 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.400 Wizard of Oz it was none other than Judy Garland, 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:54.480 who is top three gay icon. Maybe. I mean a 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:56.480 lot of arguments for number one, but I would say 0:08:56.480 --> 0:09:01.280 definitely top three. Who are the other two? Oh? Well, 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:06.200 you know Lon Cheney Jr. I would Well, I don't 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.240 know that that would be tough because you could throw 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:12.000 Share in there. You could throw Barber Strice in in there, Madonna, 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:17.160 who Liberaci, Oh, Libarraci of course. Um so maybe it 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:18.640 might be one of those things where the top three 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.560 is like a list of ten people. Yeah, I think 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.440 because we just had so much trouble even narrowing it 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:27.280 down to top three, she might be the number one 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:29.880 then maybe, But it's not for us to say anyway. 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:35.760 You know, no, it's not. You're right, but Judy Garland. 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:40.280 Garland is certainly a gay icon. Uh. There have been, 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:46.640 you know, everything from her her funeral, which was attended 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:52.560 by more people than Rudolph Valentino, Uh, to her. I 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:56.120 mean Rufus Wainwright did an entire tour where Rufus sings 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:59.880 Judy Garland. Yeah, yeah, and her her funeral that day 0:09:59.880 --> 0:10:02.200 of her funeral was this that later that night was 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.280 the Stonewall Riot, and a lot of people were like, well, 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:08.040 Judy Garland's death kicked off the Stonewall riots with kick, 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.200 which kicked off the air of civil rights for gay people. Um, 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.320 and that's apparently been refuted by some people, but other 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:16.920 people said, no, that that definitely had something to do 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:18.880 with that. It was a factor, man. I mean, if 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:21.520 you're at a boiling point and then one of your 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:27.800 icons and spiritual leaders dies, that'll send you And if 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.280 you're at a bar drinking and you're sad about that, 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.040 that could definitely be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Yeah. 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.320 And if you're sad about it and everyone with you 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:37.480 at that bar is sad about the exact same thing, 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:40.959 that sends a camaraderie and collect suness. Yeah, I could 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.800 definitely translate into that. And there was also um like 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:48.839 it's really kind of difficult to to under state like 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.360 the impact in the the what an icon she was? 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.320 But I saw did I say understate? Yeah? I didn't didn't. 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:59.040 It's difficult to overstate it because, um, but I saw 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:02.600 it like really summarized well by this one quote. Some 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:05.960 some writer was describing a bio of her that was 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:08.040 first put on as a stage play but was later 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:12.760 produced into Judy starring Renee's elwigger Um. The stage play 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.520 was called End of the Rainbow, but the this writer 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:17.760 said that it was explaining the End of the Rainbow 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.160 was like a gay version of the Passion of the Christ. 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.560 Very he clearly kind of gets across, like what an 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:27.080 icon she is and was in the in the gay community. Yeah, 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:29.880 I'm gonna end up with my final verdict being Dorothy 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:33.040 could be a combination of all these Dorothy's and could 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.520 have been any one of them, two different people at 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.960 different times. So the last thing about this chuck is 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:42.319 the slang has actually gone the way of the dinosaur, 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.480 which is good because that suggests that gay people don't 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:49.280 feel the need to encode their gayness nearly as much anymore, 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.600 if at all, in a lot of places, which is wonderful. 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.360 But before that happened, Right before that happened, in the 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.960 late eighties, there was a an actual witch hunt to 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:01.760 root out gay people well in the military that was 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:06.679 spearheaded by Navy Intelligence Services and Army intelligence and it 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:11.280 was terrible and shameful and They wasted hundreds of millions 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:14.400 of dollars doing this because an admiral vice admiral named 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:17.400 Joseph S. Donald flipped out at the idea that they 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.040 were gay men in the military apparently he'd never noticed, 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.240 and wasted all this money doing this. But the one 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:25.320 good thing that came out of this was this amazing 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.880 story that I think you should tell everybody. Well, they 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:31.959 intelligence and then I say that with quotes around it 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:36.839 got ahold of the friends of Dorothy um usage and 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:39.840 they thought there was a real Dorothy that was providing 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.240 uh quarter for gay men in the military, and what 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:47.240 uh where it was. This was sympathetic to their cause 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.040 and aiding and abetting them. And so they spent a 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.520 lot of money of your tax dollars trying to chase 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:59.199 down who Dorothy was because these friends of hers were 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:01.199 serving in the middlets Are and they wanted to get 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:05.000 her to inform on them. They didn't never find her, though, Huh, 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:07.560 that seems like a made up story. It's so great, 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.120 it does. I saw it in multiple sources though, so 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.600 I think it's actually real, including the l A Times. Uh. 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.000 And that's it, everybody. That's it for friends of Dorothy. 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:19.640 Now you can say hey, I'm a friend of a 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.120 friend of Dorothy, and people say, what does that mean. 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.600 You say, let me tell you. That's right okay, which 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:31.400 of course means short stuff. Is that stuff you should know? 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.280 Is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.760 my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:39.679 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.