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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Previously on Tuesday.

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Speaker 3: Boom.

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Speaker 4: Heys, please, Hey, who did this to you?

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Speaker 5: They're saying he took a kitchen knife from his sister's

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Speaker 5: apartment to his car with Bob, got in the car,

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Speaker 5: went somewhere else, and then attacked him.

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Speaker 4: It just didn't make sense.

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Speaker 5: Didn't make sense to me.

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Speaker 6: All of a sudden, his name became a household word

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Speaker 6: for the worst of reasons, and it just pissed me off.

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Speaker 2: Nima Momenti's murder trial started on October fourteenth, twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 2: a year and a half after the killing. I was

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Speaker 2: there for the entirety of the trial. It would ultimately

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Speaker 2: run for eight weeks. Nima showed up to court every

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Speaker 2: day in a suit. He was seated alongside a large

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Speaker 2: group of defense attorneys. He listened intently and took notes.

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Speaker 2: If you didn't go in knowing he was on trial

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Speaker 2: for murder, you might think he was one of the lawyers.

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Speaker 7: Well, he certainly doesn't seem, you know, sad. The way

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Speaker 7: he walks in, he struts in, I mean he always

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Speaker 7: struts in, you know, kind of confident of himself.

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Speaker 2: This is Paul Kroda, a seasoned photojournalist in the Bay Area.

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Speaker 2: He took photos of Nima showing up at his arrayment

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Speaker 2: with his chest puffed out and arms swinging. He also

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Speaker 2: took photos of Nima in his jail cell.

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Speaker 7: When I met him in jail, Yeah, he was upbeat,

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Speaker 7: a bat attitude. You know. He poses for me in

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Speaker 7: the jail cell, and he gave me several different looks.

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Speaker 7: He's almost proud to be him, you know, even though

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Speaker 7: what he did. You know, he's proud to be him.

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Speaker 2: The New York Post published these photos under the headline

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Speaker 2: quote bone chilling photos show cash app founder Bob Lee's

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Speaker 2: allege killer Nima MOMENTI smiling in jail. By the way,

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Speaker 2: Nima has sued the photographer and the New York Post,

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Speaker 2: among other outlets that published these photos. As of this recording,

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Speaker 2: that lawsuit is still pending. For the first year and

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Speaker 2: a half, that smile, that strut were the only insights

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Speaker 2: we had into how Nima felt about any of this.

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Speaker 2: He never gave a statement. He also turned on my

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Speaker 2: request for an interview. Here's omit to lie. The lead prosecutor.

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Speaker 8: Prior to his arrest. As dramatic as it might sound.

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Speaker 8: Is when I personally started preparing for this as a

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Speaker 8: self defense case and for my cross examination of this

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Speaker 8: lying story. He would tell where he had to defend himself.

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Speaker 8: How did you know that there's only two defenses? Really

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Speaker 8: who done it? The other defense is self defense. Knowing

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Speaker 8: that we had him driving Bob under the bridge and

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Speaker 8: as the last person with him, he wasn't going to

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Speaker 8: be able to claim somebody else committed this crime. He

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Speaker 8: was going to have to claim, yes, I stabbed him,

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Speaker 8: but I did so because I was in fear of

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Speaker 8: my own safety.

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Speaker 2: The evidence was stacked against Nima. After the police found

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Speaker 2: Bob bleeding out on the sidewalk, they followed a trail

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Speaker 2: of blood to the murder weapon, a kitchen knife that

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Speaker 2: had been tossed over a fence. When investigators tested the knife,

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Speaker 2: they found Bob's DNA on the blade and Nima's on

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Speaker 2: the handle. The brand of the knife also matched a

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Speaker 2: set from Kazar's kitchen. Then there was all the video

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Speaker 2: video of Bob and Nima leaving the apartment together, of

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Speaker 2: Bob climbing into Nina's car, of the car pulling into

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Speaker 2: an empty lot under the Bay bridge, of the car

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Speaker 2: speeding off from the scene of the crime of Bob

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Speaker 2: stumbling away before collapsing. I mean it was a lot.

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Speaker 2: The prosecution charged Nima with first degree murder. They argued

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Speaker 2: that by driving Bob to a secluded location and bringing

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Speaker 2: a knife with him, Nima showed premeditation. If they convicted

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Speaker 2: Nima a murder one, they would be able to put

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Speaker 2: him away for twenty six years. It looked to many

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Speaker 2: like it should have been a pretty straightforward case.

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Speaker 9: This should have been a three week trial.

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Speaker 2: This is Brad Cohen, one of Nima's defense attorneys.

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Speaker 9: It was ridiculous. This was the crazy case. I thought that,

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Speaker 9: and it was off the rails, and I think that

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Speaker 9: this should have been a three week trial that turned

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Speaker 9: into a three month trial.

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Speaker 2: The trial of Nima, MOMENTI was anything but a straightforward proceeding.

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Speaker 2: The jury heard from a parade of unreliable narrators, their

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Speaker 2: stories filled with frustrating plot holes. They followed twists and turns.

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Speaker 2: They watched not one but two secret videos. There were

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Speaker 2: salacious details about drug use and around the clock partying.

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Speaker 2: It became a media circus. Here's lead prosecutor omit to lie.

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Speaker 8: I felt it from the first day in court at

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Speaker 8: the arraignment, when I was walking through to see reporters

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Speaker 8: trying to get into the courtroom, where I couldn't really

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Speaker 8: get out of the courtroom because reporters were blocking the exit.

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Speaker 2: Despite the international attention, almost nothing has been reported about

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Speaker 2: the people who would ultimately decide Nima's fate.

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Speaker 4: The jury.

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Speaker 2: The jurors included a restaurant owner, a costco greeterer, a

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Speaker 2: Harvard graduate. A few of them worked in tech. One

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Speaker 2: of them was knowledgeable about drugs and had colorful stories.

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Speaker 2: San Francisco is a small town, so I've run into

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Speaker 2: a few of them out and about, and I've been

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Speaker 2: surprised when I've approached them that they seem so standoffish,

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Speaker 2: almost scared. It turns out the jury made a pact

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Speaker 2: not to say anything to the press, so until now

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Speaker 2: we haven't known what mattered to them at the trial.

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Speaker 2: At what points did they say, Oh, this seems good

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Speaker 2: for Nima, or oh, this seems very bad for Nima.

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Speaker 2: But now, for the first time, one of the jurors

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Speaker 2: spoke to me anonymously. So on today's episode, we're going

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Speaker 2: to walk through the trial of Nima. MOMENTI we'll focus

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Speaker 2: on four key components, two testimonies and two pieces of evidence.

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Speaker 2: These were some of the most dramatic moments of the trial,

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Speaker 2: and I think they'll help you understand what it was

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Speaker 2: the jury was being asked to consider and will ultimately

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Speaker 2: matter to them. We'll hear from the prosecution and the

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Speaker 2: defense team will get the official narrative of how Bob

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Speaker 2: Lee died, and we'll try to understand why he died,

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Speaker 2: what his accused killer may have been thinking, and what

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Speaker 2: this trial meant for San Francisco. I'm sean when and

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Speaker 2: this is foundering the killing of Bob Lee. One of

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Speaker 2: the most frustrating things about Bobley's death is that the

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Speaker 2: supposed inciting incident, the thing that prosecutors would claim got

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Speaker 2: Nima so mad, was a very specific moment that neither

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Speaker 2: Nima nor Bob was actually present for. Let me explain.

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Speaker 2: It was the last day Bob was alive, April third,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. Bob and Kazar spent a lot of

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Speaker 2: time together that day, from morning till night, along with

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Speaker 2: another guy, Bob's friend, an alleged drug dealer. His name

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Speaker 2: is Jeremy Boyven. Jeremy Boyven declined to be interviewed for

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Speaker 2: this podcast, but I want you to remember him because

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Speaker 2: he'll be an important figure later on. It's three in

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Speaker 2: the afternoon and they're all hanging out at Boyven's apartment,

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Speaker 2: which is in a luxury high rise. There are lots

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Speaker 2: of drugs around, and Kazar is taking several of them.

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Speaker 3: On April third, the day before Bob Leae's death, she

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Speaker 3: was under the influence of cocaine nitrous oxide also known

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Speaker 3: as whippets, as well as LSD and GHB.

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Speaker 2: I just want to point out this is a Monday afternoon.

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Speaker 2: At around five pm, Bob heads out, leaving Kazar and

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Speaker 2: jeremy boyfriend behind. Hours pass that night, around nine pm,

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Speaker 2: Bob gets a call. It's Kazar's brother Nima. He's upset.

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Speaker 2: We mentioned this phone call in the previous episode. Nima

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Speaker 2: was interrogating Bob, asking questions like, what were you guys doing,

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Speaker 2: What was going on with my sister?

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Speaker 4: What did she take?

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Speaker 2: How about the girls getting naked? Later, Bob's friend, who

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Speaker 2: had overheard the call, testified on the witness stand. He

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Speaker 2: said it was really strange, we weren't there, and the

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Speaker 2: idea that it was girls getting naked was so far

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Speaker 2: from the vibe and situation that I saw and experienced.

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Speaker 2: Here's Prosecutor Dane Reinstead.

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Speaker 10: The murder was not a question of what it actually

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Speaker 10: happened to Jeremy boyfriend's apartment. That's maybe this subject of

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Speaker 10: another criminal case. But what mattered for purposes of our

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Speaker 10: case and our trial was what Nemo MoManI thought had

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Speaker 10: happened in Jeremy Boyfn's apartment.

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Speaker 2: It appears that after Bob left Boyven's apartment, Kazar had

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Speaker 2: a girlfriend join her. Jeremy Boyven served them both GHB,

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Speaker 2: the so called date rape drug, which they drank voluntarily.

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Speaker 2: Kazar said that he described it to her as ecstasy

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Speaker 2: that last fifteen minutes, so she took three shots of it,

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Speaker 2: then she passed out. When she came to, she was

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Speaker 2: upset and confused. She suspected that she may have been

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Speaker 2: sexually assaulted. The details of the alleged assault are fuzzy.

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Speaker 10: She testified herself that she was very unclear on the details.

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Speaker 10: That at one point she woke up and her pants

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Speaker 10: were part way pulled down. She believed she'd been sexually assaulted,

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Speaker 10: but I think she herself because of her lack of

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Speaker 10: consciousness or hazy memory around it didn't know exactly what

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Speaker 10: had happened.

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Speaker 2: In some text messages, Nima refers to what happened to

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Speaker 2: Kazar as rape, and he may have thought that Bob

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Speaker 2: was involved, because remember, Nima wasn't there. He couldn't have

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Speaker 2: known what time Bob left the party or when exactly

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Speaker 2: his sister took JHB. After Nima and Bob spoke on

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Speaker 2: the phone, Bob said Nima a text inviting him to

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Speaker 2: a strip club. At twelve thirty am, two hours before

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Speaker 2: the stabbing, Bob heads over to Kazar's apartment in Millennium Tower.

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Speaker 2: At two am. Bob is seen on camera leaving with Nima.

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Speaker 2: About half an hour later, Bob was dying on the street.

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Speaker 9: What the hell happened here?

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Speaker 2: This is Brad Cohen, one of Nima's defense attorneys.

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Speaker 9: These guys are getting along, they're two good buddies in

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Speaker 9: the elevator. They look like they're having fun. They're talking

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Speaker 9: to each other, they're laughing. The guy's saying, hey, do

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Speaker 9: you want to go to a strip joint? And the

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Speaker 9: next thing in thirty minutes later, someone's stabbed and dead

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Speaker 9: and the other guy's getting charged.

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Speaker 2: The footage of the actual stabbing is very hard to see.

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Speaker 2: It's dark and grainy, taken from a nest camera in

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Speaker 2: a nearby apartment window. Bob and Nima are just pixelated blobs.

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Speaker 2: Bob is wearing black and Nima is wearing white. You

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Speaker 2: can see them standing around for several minutes, and then

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Speaker 2: very quickly, the figure in white advances three or four

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Speaker 2: times towards the figure in black. It's just a few

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Speaker 2: quick movements. This is the best glimpse we get into

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Speaker 2: the altercation between the two men. It leaves room for

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Speaker 2: some ambiguity.

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Speaker 9: Self defense looked plausible.

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Speaker 2: Cohen, it should be said, is a high profile attorney

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Speaker 2: known especially for representing hip hop artists. He's obtained federal

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Speaker 2: pardons for Lol Wayne and Kodak Black from President Trump,

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Speaker 2: whom he's also represented. They actually go pretty far back.

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Speaker 2: Here's Cohen competing on season two of The Apprentice.

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Speaker 4: My plan backfired.

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Speaker 9: Mister Trump thought that that was a stupid decision.

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Speaker 6: I was the only individual who went to the board

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Speaker 6: when without a bag.

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Speaker 2: Nima was in fact represented by five lawyers, a testament

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Speaker 2: to how seriously his family took this case. The defense

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Speaker 2: argued that Bob was sleep deprived and on cocaine, which

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Speaker 2: made him a radic. They said that Bob pulled a

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Speaker 2: knife on Nima, but Nima grabbed Bob's hand with the

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Speaker 2: knife still in it, and redirected it back towards Bob.

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Speaker 10: Because Nima MoManI had killed the only witness, there wasn't

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Speaker 10: somebody who could say exactly what happened.

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Speaker 2: These are the prosecutors. Again, did self defense ever feel

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Speaker 2: plausible to you?

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Speaker 8: Um plause? Like, did I believe it might be self defense?

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Speaker 8: Is that you're asking like that?

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Speaker 9: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 2: While the DNA on the knife and the security footage

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Speaker 2: suggests that Nima killed Bob, it still leaves open the

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Speaker 2: very big question why here's Cohen?

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Speaker 9: I think that the state had no motive. They were scrambling.

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Speaker 9: They knew that self defense was definitely an issue here

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Speaker 9: because these two guys are getting along in the elevator.

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Speaker 9: There's no real fight between them. Nobody's arguing, No one

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Speaker 9: testified there was this big fight, big blowout.

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Speaker 2: The juror I spoke to said that at the start

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Speaker 2: of the trial, the entire jury was confused about the motive.

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Speaker 11: They said, none of us could agree. Why the hell

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Speaker 11: Nima would kill Bob. Why wouldn't you kill Jeremy. That's

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Speaker 11: the guy your sister said raped her. Why go after

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Speaker 11: Bob when he wasn't even there.

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Speaker 2: Jeremy Boyven has not been charged with sexually assaulting Kazar,

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Speaker 2: and as a reminder, he declined to be interviewed for

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Speaker 2: this podcast. Whether or not they knew it, the state

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Speaker 2: had an uphill battle ahead of them. Can you tell

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Speaker 2: me what you.

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Speaker 8: See the motive as to me, it's not convoluted at all.

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Speaker 8: I think it's very simple.

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Speaker 2: Oh me to lie again. The lead prosecutor on.

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Speaker 8: The case, Nima Momeni, believes Bob Lee contributed to his

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Speaker 8: little sister being sexually assaulted or raped, and that pissed

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Speaker 8: him off. That made him angry, That made him act

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Speaker 8: as one would when they are pissed off and angry.

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Speaker 8: That's the motive for to lie.

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Speaker 2: There was no shortage of evidence pointing towards Nima as

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Speaker 2: the aggressor.

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Speaker 8: It was him driving bobly to the location, him clearly

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Speaker 8: being the last person with Bob, and the text messages

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Speaker 8: from Kazar to Bob where she said that her brother

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Speaker 8: came down very hard on Bob and that he handled

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Speaker 8: himself with class.

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Speaker 2: Which brings us to the first of our four key

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Speaker 2: components of the trial, the testimony of Nima's sister, Kazar MOMENTI.

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Speaker 2: For the Press, Kazar was the star of the show.

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Speaker 2: She was cast as a glamorous van fetale who somehow

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Speaker 2: drove her brother to kill Bob.

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Speaker 12: Somehow, everyone in this trial seems like they're made from TV.

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Speaker 2: This is a photographer, Jong Hoo Kim, who I met

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Speaker 2: in the courthouse. Specifically, he had been asked to take

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Speaker 2: photos of Kazar. Can you say which outlet sent you

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Speaker 2: out there?

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Speaker 12: I was working for Zuma Press with the photos going

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Speaker 12: to the New.

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Speaker 2: York Post, okay? And what kind of photos were they

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Speaker 2: asking you get?

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Speaker 12: In this particular case, the specific quest was for full

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Speaker 12: body photos of Kazar. MOMENTI why full body glamour.

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Speaker 2: The first day of Kazar's testimony, she showed up to

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Speaker 2: court wearing oversized sunglasses, stiletto pumps, and the perfectly tailored

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Speaker 2: blue silk dress. The Daily Mail said it was Valentino.

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Speaker 2: A source close to Nima's defense team told me that

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Speaker 2: from Nima's arrest onward, the family was instructed to dress

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Speaker 2: like they were attending a funeral, Kazar dress like she

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Speaker 2: was going to a movie premiere.

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Speaker 12: A lot of the media has focused on her as

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Speaker 12: an interesting character because visually there's a lot to work

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Speaker 12: with there, and I think in terms of her testimony,

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Speaker 12: it's become quite drama filled and salacious.

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Speaker 1: Out to the latest out of Sam Francisco.

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Speaker 3: In day four of testimony and the murder trial for

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Speaker 3: tech executive and cash app founder Bob Lee.

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Speaker 2: Kazar was there to support her brother, that much was clear,

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Speaker 2: but she was also a critical witness for the prosecution

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Speaker 2: since her testimony could provide a motive. Here's Omit Lai,

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Speaker 2: the lead prosecutor on this case.

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Speaker 8: She set this emotion. She told her brother things happened

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Speaker 8: to her. Those things upset her brother. She's not to

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Speaker 8: blame for Bob being killed. It's nima MOMENTI but she,

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Speaker 8: in my mind, set this all in motion.

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Speaker 2: But she was an uncooperative witness leading up to the trial.

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Speaker 2: She refused to speak with the authorities. Here's the other prosecutor,

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Speaker 2: Dan Rihinstead.

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Speaker 10: She had declined to ever speak with us. She had

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Speaker 10: declined to speak with the police. It meant that to

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Speaker 10: a large extent, we were going in blind as to

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Speaker 10: what exactly was she was going to say.

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Speaker 3: Huzzar MOMENTI was soft spoken. Initially. She placed her clutch

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Speaker 3: and some oversized sunglasses on the witness stand.

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Speaker 2: Cameras and recording devices were banned from the courtroom, so

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Speaker 2: I have a voice actor reading the transcript.

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Speaker 13: Prosecution, have you followed the news, Cuzar, I've stopped watching

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Speaker 13: the news. Prosecution, have you heard the claim that your

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Speaker 13: brother killed Bob Lee but in self defense?

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Speaker 4: Czar? I have stopped watching the news.

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Speaker 10: I remember asking her at the very beginning, when was

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Speaker 10: it that you first found out that your brother was

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Speaker 10: the one that killed Bob? And that was the answer

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Speaker 10: to which she said, well, my brother wasn't the one

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Speaker 10: who killed Bob.

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Speaker 13: Prosecution, are you learning today for the first time that

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Speaker 13: your brother has killed Bob Kazar? My brother has not

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Speaker 13: killed Bob Lee, and I don't know anything else about

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Speaker 13: the case.

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Speaker 10: By that point, it had been clearly telegraphed that it

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Speaker 10: was a self defense claim and that Nemo was in

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Speaker 10: fact the one that he had killed Bob. It was

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Speaker 10: just a matter of how he had killed him, and

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Speaker 10: the fact that she appeared not to be up to speed.

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Speaker 10: With that being the narrative that the defense was putting

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Speaker 10: forward was surprising, not the answer I expected.

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Speaker 2: The back and forth between Rhinestead and Kazar continues this way.

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Speaker 2: It's repetitive and evasive. She says more than once that

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Speaker 2: she knows nothing and remembers little, blaming the cocktail of

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Speaker 2: drugs she was on.

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Speaker 13: Prosecution, was your brother also doing cocaine with you?

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Speaker 4: Kazar?

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Speaker 13: I did not see him do any Prosecution you texted

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Speaker 13: him no, bitch. Blow messed up your mind and makes

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Speaker 13: you act lunatic. Kazar, I don't know why I sent

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Speaker 13: that text message. Prosecution reading her text rape case, Nima,

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Speaker 13: you're fucking psychotic. No one enjoys that company. You scare me, Kazar.

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Speaker 13: We're brother and sister. We bigger when we talk. I

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Speaker 13: have no idea what this is about.

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Speaker 2: The other reason the prosecution needed Kazar was that she

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Speaker 2: sent several potentially incriminating text messages shortly after Bob was killed,

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Speaker 2: including texting Bob, sorry, Nima came down way hard on you,

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Speaker 2: and texting Nima, Nima, you scare me. Sometimes.

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Speaker 10: Kazar was a hostile witness to us, certainly, but one

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Speaker 10: that we affirmatively wanted to put on in our case,

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Speaker 10: primarily to authenticate the text messages that she had sent,

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Speaker 10: but also to provide some of the context and color

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Speaker 10: around what had happened leading up to the murder.

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Speaker 8: What Dane did with Kazar, and really within the first

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Speaker 8: ten to fifteen minutes while I'm sitting there, I'm a

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Speaker 8: spectator like everyone else. That was one of the few

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Speaker 8: moments that I thought, I think, I think we're fine.

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Speaker 8: Not only did he so calmly and methodically, kind of

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Speaker 8: surgically take her apart and get all those text messages

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Speaker 8: that we wanted in the defense looked like their heads

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Speaker 8: were going to explode.

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Speaker 9: Listen, she testified the way she testified.

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Speaker 2: Brad Cohen again from the defense team.

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Speaker 9: Oh, she's going to answer everything for the defense and

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Speaker 9: nothing for the state. Well, it's her brother.

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Speaker 2: A source close to the defense told me that after

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Speaker 2: Kazar's testimony, because she turned out to be such an

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Speaker 2: unreliable witness, Nima's lawyers distanced themselves from her. After her

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Speaker 2: three days on the witness stand, we didn't see Kazar again,

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Speaker 2: not even on the day of the verdict. So the

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Speaker 2: first key component of the trial, Kazar's testimony seemingly not

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Speaker 2: helpful to Nima, which brings us to our second key component,

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Speaker 2: a secret video recording made by the cops. The prosecution

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00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 2: wanted the jury to pay attention to Nima's behavior after

363
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Speaker 2: the stabbing, and for this they introduced new evidence, a

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Speaker 2: video of Nima made six days after Bob was killed,

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Speaker 2: but before Nima was arrested Ohmed to lie. The lead

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Speaker 2: prosecutor was at the police station when he saw it

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Speaker 2: for the first time.

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Speaker 8: I remember Sergeant Goff calling saying, Hey, I'm headed back

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Speaker 8: from South Bay. You got to see this.

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Speaker 2: Sergeant David Goff is an undercover cop who had been

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Speaker 2: following Nima since the day after Bob was killed. GoF

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Speaker 2: had recorded something he wanted to show the prosecutors, and.

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Speaker 8: He wouldn't even really explain it to us. He just

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Speaker 8: wanted us to see it. The homicide inspectors do not

375
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Speaker 8: have these fancy offices. They're all kind of in cubes,

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Speaker 8: cubicles next to each other. So we were standing and

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Speaker 8: Sergeant Goff put in the video and we just pressed

378
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Speaker 8: play and you kind of, I think a couple of

379
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Speaker 8: times says he said, just wait, just wait, like just

380
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Speaker 8: just wait for it. Wait for it.

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Speaker 2: That day Goth followed Nima from a sandwich shop to

382
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Speaker 2: a parking lot, which happened to be at his criminal

383
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 2: defense attorney's office. He filmed Nima standing there chatting with

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Speaker 2: a private investigator who worked for his attorney. In the video,

385
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Speaker 2: Nima's talking, talking, smoking a cigarette, and then he makes

386
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Speaker 2: three quick horizontal jabbing motions. Then he seems to mimic

387
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Speaker 2: throwing something in the air. His gestures map onto the

388
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: evidence pretty neatly. Bob was indeed stabbed three times, and

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Speaker 2: the knife was tossed to the other side of a fence.

390
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Speaker 8: I think I laughed inside, you know, thinking like this

391
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Speaker 8: is absurd. I have never, and probably never will see

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Speaker 8: a murderer re enacting the crime that he had committed

393
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Speaker 8: a few days before, on a bright sunny day in public,

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Speaker 8: and then throw the murder weapon.

395
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Speaker 10: And I think equally important is what he's not showing, right.

396
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Speaker 10: He doesn't reenact any kind of a struggle. He doesn't

397
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Speaker 10: reenact any sort of washine or a redirecting in any way.

398
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Speaker 2: In other words, Nima's movements on the video don't resemble

399
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Speaker 2: a struggle where he's defending himself. The jury member I

400
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 2: spoke to told me that in the deliberation room. They

401
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 2: weren't completely convinced by the jabbing motion Nima made that

402
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 2: it looked like it could have been a stabbing movement

403
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 2: or a punch, But when Nima appears to toss an

404
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: invisible knife, that felt unmistakable to them. The juror told

405
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 2: me quote that was goddamn suspicious. Interestingly, the juror also

406
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Speaker 2: had this to say about the undercover cop.

407
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Speaker 11: All the women were going, oh my god, Sergeant Goff,

408
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 11: there's no way he can do plain clothes work. How

409
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 11: do you not notice you're in a public parking lot

410
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 11: and there's a guy who's really hot in a car

411
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 11: filming you.

412
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 2: Anyway, the defense made a motion to suppress this video,

413
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 2: arguing that was protected by attorney client privilege. Ultimately, the

414
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 2: judge decided that the video was fair game. The defense

415
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 2: was furious about this ruling. Here's Cohen that.

416
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Speaker 6: A conversation with an attorney or an attorney's employee in

417
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 6: a parking lot that's empty, where there's no one around

418
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 6: except for a police officer who was spying on this

419
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 6: attorney client privileged conversation, and to be able to use

420
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 6: that I think is unusual.

421
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Speaker 9: I think that's going to come flying back on.

422
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:39,479
Speaker 2: Appeal coming up next will answer one of the biggest

423
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Speaker 2: questions looming over the trial. Would Nima take the stand?

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Speaker 2: That's after the break. When the defense called Nima MOMENTI

425
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Speaker 2: to the stand. There were audible gasps throughout the courtroom.

426
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Speaker 2: Because often defendants don't testify in their own we didn't

427
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 2: know for sure whether we'd hear from him until that

428
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 2: very moment. Under oath, Nima told the story of the

429
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 2: night Bob died. He said that at two in the morning,

430
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 2: he and Bob left Kazar's place together looking for the

431
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 2: next party. They were heading to a strip club. Bob

432
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 2: brought a beer into the car they were driving, and

433
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: as Nima tells it, bob'spilled the beer, which is why

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00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 2: they pulled over.

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00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 13: Nima, we were outside. He wanted us to go back

436
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 13: to his place to grab more stuff. I was resistant,

437
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 13: just trying to avoid it to get out of it.

438
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 13: I made what you call a bad joke now that

439
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 13: I look back on it. Defense, what was that, Nima?

440
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 13: If it was my last night in town, I would

441
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 13: go hang out with my family instead of fucking around

442
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 13: in strip clubs.

443
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 2: It was Bob's last night in town because he was

444
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 2: supposed to fly back to Miami the next day.

445
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 4: Defense, How did he take that? Nima? Not good at all?

446
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 4: It just set him off, Nema.

447
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 3: Moment he testified that it was Bob Lee who attacked

448
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 3: him with a knife. He said over a bad joke

449
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 3: that he had made. Nima said that he told Bob

450
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 3: if it were.

451
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 4: Defense, what does mister Lee do? Nima?

452
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 13: He's yelling, cussing at me, starts going around, circling, moving

453
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 13: around me, and gets in my face.

454
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 3: He says. Bob Lee went from zero to one hundred

455
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 3: after hearing that, hold a knife from his pocket and

456
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 3: attacked him.

457
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 13: Nima, I was scared for my life. I had to

458
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,959
Speaker 13: defend myself. Defense. Were your actions in response to that emotion?

459
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 4: Nima?

460
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 3: Yes, I just reacted, He described and demonstrated, redirecting the

461
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 3: knife back at Bob and says at some point Bob

462
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 3: just walked away unresponsive to Nma, asking him, Hey, what

463
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 3: was that?

464
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 4: What just happened?

465
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 3: He said he had no idea that Bob Lee was

466
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 3: fatally injured.

467
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 2: So the defense hinged on Bob Lee having the murder weapon,

468
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 2: the knife on him all along and attacking Nima with it.

469
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 2: I do remember thinking that at least part of Nima's

470
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: account sounded plausible. I'm just speaking as myself here, as

471
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 2: someone who had been following this story. I thought that

472
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 2: when Nima described this bad joke that he supposedly made

473
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: to Bob that he should be hanging out with his

474
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 2: family instead of with Nima, who would eventually kill him.

475
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: The substance of this joke felt real to me.

476
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 9: If you're going to make something up, you wouldn't make

477
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 9: that up right. That's why when he told me that,

478
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 9: I was like, sounds very credible to me, because you

479
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 9: don't know what sets people off.

480
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: So far, momenty is coming off as calm and a

481
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: rather credible witness. His own defense attorneys have been telling

482
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: us that he's been dying to tell his side of

483
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: the story, and today marks his first chance to do

484
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: just that.

485
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 2: The San Francisco Standard wrote that quote Momenti's testimony appears

486
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 2: to undermine the prosecution's narrative. It was convincing, or at

487
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 2: least satisfying in a way. The prosecution's explanation of what

488
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 2: went down never quite achieved. Meanwhile, the DA's office was

489
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 2: following all of this coverage.

490
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 8: So a lot of the articles talked about what Nima

491
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 8: said and how this version may have been believable, And

492
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 8: so I'm reading that kind of you know, seething and

493
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 8: almost salivating.

494
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: So the next day to lie came in hot.

495
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 8: I can be in your face a little bit, and

496
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 8: I was, and I repeated it a few times. He's

497
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 8: a murderer. He's a dumb murderer. He's not a smart murderer.

498
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 8: It's for Nima MOMENTI to hear, I think you're not

499
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 8: just a murderer, but you're a dumb one. So when

500
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 8: he gets up there, he's a little more likely to

501
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 8: snap at me, like he repeatedly did.

502
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 2: It didn't take long for Nina to start getting sarcastic

503
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,479
Speaker 2: with the prosecution. For instance, the prosecutor asked Nima if

504
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 2: it was a coincidence that the police were never able

505
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 2: to recover the jacket that he was wearing the Knight

506
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 2: Bob was killed.

507
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,959
Speaker 13: Nima, I wasn't sure if I was supposed to save it.

508
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 13: I hadn't talked to an attorney. If you guys would

509
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 13: like to go back and gather new evidence, we can

510
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 13: help you with that, no problem.

511
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 2: Once Nima got riled up, he stayed riled up. He

512
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: responded sharply, saying things like, quote and you've done a

513
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 2: great job finding the things you want, and I think

514
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 2: you're mistaking the timeline here.

515
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 8: He was constantly interrupting me. He was at times criticizing me.

516
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 8: I know there was at least one occasion where his

517
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,719
Speaker 8: own lawyer or lawyers told him I think you know,

518
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 8: shut up, like just answer the questions like they from

519
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 8: across the courtroom had to control him.

520
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 11: My source on the jury said Nima's testimony was the

521
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 11: most damning. Oh my fucking god, he did it.

522
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 4: He did it.

523
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 11: It's so obvious. My bullshit meter was red flagging. His

524
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 11: story keeps changing. He was so belligerent and stand offish

525
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 11: with the prosecution's questions. Did that guy do something to

526
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 11: hurt you because you hate his guts? I never saw

527
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 11: someone so unwilling to answer the simplest of questions. He

528
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 11: was like, why are you asking that question? Someone who

529
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:32,959
Speaker 11: was innocent wouldn't say that.

530
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 2: The prosecutor got Nima to react basically exactly the way

531
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 2: he wanted him to.

532
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 8: Dane and I've cross examined murderers in the past. It's

533
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 8: easy to cross these individuals when they're lying like it's

534
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 8: a lot easier when they are liars. It's even easier,

535
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 8: in my opinion, when they think they are smarter than you.

536
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 8: And I think he thought that he could out charm

537
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 8: and out smart me.

538
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 2: Here's Cohen from Nima's defense team.

539
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,479
Speaker 9: I think that he held up well to a certain point,

540
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 9: and then he got frustrated. I think with the state,

541
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 9: I think that the state did a good job in

542
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 9: trying to get him to be confused or get him frustrated,

543
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 9: or asking the same question over and over and over

544
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 9: again to the point where he would be like, hey,

545
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 9: I already answered D and he'd seen combative.

546
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: The trial was nearing its conclusion, Nima's team had one

547
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: more piece of evidence they wanted to enter, one final

548
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 2: element they thought would make it obvious to the jury

549
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 2: that Bob had the knife fall along and Nima was

550
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 2: only acting in self defense. During closing arguments, one of

551
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 2: Nima's other attorneys, Sam Zanganay, played a new video recording.

552
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 5: Zangana showed the jury surveillance video, he says, shows Lee

553
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 5: with a friend snorting cocaine from a knife hours before

554
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 5: he was killed.

555
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 9: Here's Cohen very clearly in the video that we showed,

556
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 9: no one has an excuse for what is in his

557
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 9: hand that he's holding that clearly looks to me like

558
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 9: a knife that he's snorting cocaine off of.

559
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 2: I watched the video. Bob does look like he's snorting

560
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 2: cocaine off of something.

561
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 9: This thing's three inches long. It's not a key. He's

562
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 9: holding it like this, and it's like, I am one

563
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 9: thousand percent in my opinion, sure that that was a knife.

564
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 9: He's holding it like a knife and he's snorting cocaine

565
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 9: with it.

566
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: After we saw the video, I stepped out into the hallway.

567
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: One journalist called it a mic drop moment. A court

568
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 2: observer said to me, so Bob had the knife all along,

569
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 2: And I remember thinking, Wow, if some people in the

570
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 2: gallery were persuaded that Bob maybe had the knife, what

571
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 2: does the jury think or other?

572
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 14: Top story right now in the hands of the jury,

573
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 14: deliberations have begun in the high profile murder trial of

574
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 14: Nima MOMENTI how long.

575
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 2: Did the jury deliberate for?

576
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 10: It's eight days, he or nine.

577
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 8: I think it felt like a month, the longest I've

578
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 8: ever had.

579
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 11: They told us to take our time.

580
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: My source on. The jury talked me through their deliberations.

581
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 11: The first few days were a waste. There was screaming

582
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 11: and shouting and crying. We didn't get anything done.

583
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 9: And at one point, you know, we could hear them

584
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 9: yelling in the back, and another point one of the jurors

585
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 9: came in and said, listen, I don't want to even

586
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 9: be on this jury anymore. There's so much yelling, pounding

587
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 9: on the table.

588
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 11: Disappointed that that room was not sound proof, the whole

589
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 11: yelling part. Everyone has been holding two months of secrets,

590
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 11: two months of their thoughts. You can't talk to anyone,

591
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 11: you can't watch the news.

592
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 2: My source said that the jurors took the instructions from

593
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 2: the court very seriously. They didn't discuss the case with

594
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 2: each other or with their families for the extent of

595
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 2: the trial. While the jury talked, the legal teams were restless.

596
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 2: How did you feel and what were you doing with

597
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 2: yourselves while they were deliberating.

598
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 10: Pacing and you were trying to read the tea leaves

599
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 10: on every note that we get from the jury during

600
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 10: the course of the liberations and thinking about Okay, what

601
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 10: does this mean? How does this signal? They may be

602
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 10: thinking or leaning on X, Y or Z issue.

603
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 2: In the hallways, we the press were trying to read

604
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 2: the tea leaves too. We were kind of going nuts.

605
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 2: One day, one of the jurors forgot to buckle his belt.

606
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 2: What did that mean? Was he looking dishovel because he

607
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 2: was stressed. There was one guy sitting on the bench alone.

608
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 2: He looked like he had been crying, and we were

609
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 2: wondering was he a holdout?

610
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,959
Speaker 11: There was a holdout who wanted to review every inch

611
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 11: of evidence.

612
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 2: That's my source on the jury again, they said that

613
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,919
Speaker 2: there was one massive point of disagreement in the deliberation room.

614
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 2: That final video the defense showed of Bob seemingly snorting

615
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: cocaine off of some object that for almost everyone on

616
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 2: the jury, they simply did not believe that object was

617
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:35,280
Speaker 2: a knife.

618
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 11: We know, no fool is going to snort off a knife.

619
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 11: People don't carry bare knives in their pockets. That's just stupid.

620
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 11: They're going to accidentally stab themselves when they sit down.

621
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: But my source told me that there was one person

622
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 2: on the jury who was convinced that Bob must have

623
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 2: had the knife all along.

624
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 11: He thought he was smarter than the cops. And the prosecutors,

625
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,439
Speaker 11: and he wanted to do his own investigation. He thought

626
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 11: he could prove that Bob had the knife. He was

627
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 11: sitting at the laptop that had the surveillance videos, asking

628
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 11: how do I rewind? How do I slow down? How

629
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 11: do I zoom in? He was at that for many hours.

630
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 11: The court specifically told us we aren't supposed to do

631
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 11: our own investigation, so we were screaming at him, what

632
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 11: are you doing. You're not a cop, You're not a detective.

633
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 2: My source said that finally one of the other jurors

634
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 2: zoomed in on a piece of police body camera footage

635
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 2: that showed a cop pulling something out of Bob Lee's pocket.

636
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 4: It looked like it.

637
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 2: Could have been a key or a USB stick. Couldn't

638
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 2: this be what Bob had been using to snort cocaine

639
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,720
Speaker 2: out in the halls of the courthouse. Sam zanganay Nima's

640
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 2: lead attorney, was usually sort of a cocky guy who

641
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 2: likes to joke around, but by day six of jury

642
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 2: deliberations even he seemed worn down.

643
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 15: I mean, these guys are committed. I gotta give it

644
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 15: to him. They're really in there working hard. That's all

645
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 15: you can really ask them to do in.

646
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 1: Your experience, can you provide any context? Is to how

647
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: unusual or maybe on brand it might be for a

648
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: deliberation like this to take this long.

649
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 15: I've never had a murder case take longer than two days.

650
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 15: The longest delibration I've ever had was ten days, and

651
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:17,919
Speaker 15: it was a federal case, and it was like two

652
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,879
Speaker 15: million documents. I'm sorry, guys, I'm just emotionally drained, as

653
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 15: you can imagine.

654
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: The juror I spoke to said they poured through the

655
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 2: text messages, They watched the videos again and again, dozens

656
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 2: of times.

657
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 11: Everyone wasn't sleeping well every time we'd meet. Did you

658
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 11: sleep no? Did you eat no? Some of us had nightmares.

659
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 11: Some people had dreams that they were on the witness stand.

660
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 11: One person said they dreamed that Bob walked in. He

661
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 11: looked like a walking corpse because we had looked at

662
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 11: that Morgue photo again and again. Some people got freaked out.

663
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 11: Is he a ghost? Is he here right now?

664
00:39:58,440 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 16: House?

665
00:39:58,719 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 17: Nina?

666
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 15: I mean, imagine when you have other people deciding your fate,

667
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 15: waiting an hour is an eternity.

668
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 2: Nima's attorney, Sam Zanganay again.

669
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 15: Imagine waiting six days, and I'm sure that all the parties,

670
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 15: including the leads, I feel for them. I feel for

671
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 15: everybody in a case like this, you know, especially in

672
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 15: this time where you're waiting right, it's not an easy thing.

673
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 9: It's a gut wrenching thing.

674
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 7: I know.

675
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 2: After this, Zanganay flew home. Three out of five of

676
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 2: Nima's lawyers returned to Florida and they didn't come back. Eventually,

677
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 2: the holdout came to agree with the rest of the jury.

678
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 2: Nima had the knife. Then the question became is Nima

679
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 2: guilty of first degree murder? To meet that bar, the

680
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 2: killing had to be three things. Willful, premeditated, and deliberate.

681
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 11: Let's figure out all the evidence. Let's figure out what

682
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 11: we agree on. Wilful means the defendant meant to kill.

683
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 11: You look at the evidence and say, okay, did the

684
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 11: defendant mean to kill? If you were angry at someone,

685
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 11: you would not stab them in the chest. That's wilful.

686
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 11: We check that off. The next requirement premeditated, meaning you

687
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 11: planned the act in advance. There's a knife at the scene.

688
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 11: We felt it like premeditated. People don't randomly.

689
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 18: Bring a knife premeditated check third requirement deliberate defendant considered

690
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 18: scenarios four and against the act and chose to act anyways.

691
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 11: That was the hardest part. There was no evidence that

692
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 11: says that we're not in his head. There's no manifesto,

693
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 11: there's no video of him pacing in the hallway deciding

694
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 11: whether or not to do it. Did the suspect think

695
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 11: about every scenario and decide to murder? Can any of

696
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 11: us say we saw any evidence that tells us that shit.

697
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 2: No, At the end of these six they still weren't

698
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 2: all in agreement. Then my source on the jury told

699
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 2: me a different front. Duror told a personal story about

700
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 2: how her father had been incarcerated. She told everyone she

701
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: believed that he had actually been wrongfully convicted, and she said,

702
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 2: if there had been one person on the jury like

703
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 2: the holdout, maybe things would have turned out differently. She

704
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: drew on the whiteboard a picture of a seesaw. There

705
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 2: were eleven people on one side and just one person

706
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 2: on the other.

707
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 11: It took all of the air out of the room.

708
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 11: We've been shamed. At that point, we were like, fuck,

709
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,720
Speaker 11: let's vote.

710
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 4: We'll be right back.

711
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: After seven days of deliberation spread out across three weeks.

712
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 2: We finally heard.

713
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 3: Within the past hour, we learned jurors have reached a verdict.

714
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 2: Here's amet to lie.

715
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,280
Speaker 8: When the verdicts are read, what happens is the forms

716
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 8: go to the judge. The first page is first degree murder,

717
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 8: the second page is second degree murder, and then all

718
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 8: the way down Judge Gordon. She kind of sifted through

719
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 8: that first page pretty quickly and looked at that second

720
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 8: page more closely. I leaned over to Dane and said,

721
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 8: it's a second, like it's not a first, it's a second,

722
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 8: because she took some extra time there. Once I saw that,

723
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 8: I was actually pretty calm.

724
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 14: Ranking news out of San Francisco, California in that high

725
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 14: profile murder case involving a Bay Area tech executive, here's

726
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 14: your headline in this one. A jury has just found

727
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,240
Speaker 14: Nimo Momenti guilty of second degree murder in the killing

728
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 14: of cash app founder Bob Lee.

729
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,919
Speaker 11: Some of us said, first degree feels right. Obviously there

730
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 11: was some planning, but we have to do what the

731
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 11: law says, even though we feel we really want first degree.

732
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 11: Second degree is okay too. If you don't meet all

733
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 11: three scenarios, it devaults to second. That's what it says

734
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 11: in the law. That's what it says in our packet.

735
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 4: The verdict of.

736
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 2: Second degree murder means that Nima faces a sentence of

737
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 2: sixteen to life. If he had gotten first degree, he

738
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: would have been looking at twenty six to life. After

739
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 2: the bailiff read the verdict, it was chaos. Bob's family

740
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 2: and friends filled half the courtroom and they crowded the hallways.

741
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 2: TV crews were already set up for Bob Lee's family.

742
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 2: The judgment came as a relief of vindication.

743
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,399
Speaker 4: We're happy with the results today. We're having that name

744
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 4: on money, will not be on.

745
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 7: The streets, no longer gets the opportunity to harm anybody

746
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 7: else in the world.

747
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 10: The burd burger will cut him away for a long time.

748
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 4: Just in this case was.

749
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 2: Extremely larger proof and just a Nima's word versus my

750
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 2: brothers were which he's not pared or it would be.

751
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 4: To be able to hear those things.

752
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 2: Bob's brother and former told me that they felt robbed

753
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 2: of the chance to grieve his death. They've been navigating

754
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 2: waves of media coverage and then the trial itself. I

755
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 2: think they seemed relieved that this part of the ordeal

756
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 2: was finally over, that they could finally grieve their family member.

757
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 2: But for Nima's family, it was a solemn day. Here's

758
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 2: Nima's mom Mana's well.

759
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 17: Definitely, it's very disappointing in.

760
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 3: That moment when you heard the verdict and you were

761
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 3: able to make eye contact with your son.

762
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 4: At that moment.

763
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 17: There's no reason, no I would rather do have I

764
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 17: contact with the jurors because this is their decision. My

765
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 17: son is not such a thing, such a person. He

766
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 17: is the kindest person. Every mother would love to have

767
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 17: a son like him. I know my son and he

768
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 17: never does that.

769
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: A source close to the family so that during the trial,

770
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 2: Nima's mom expressed faith in the defense strategy. She maintained

771
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 2: hopeful optimism and also maybe a bit of denial. The

772
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 2: guilty verdict felt like yet another blow. From the moment

773
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 2: news of bob Ley's death went public, there were so

774
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 2: many things that distracted from Nima Momeni and Bob Lee

775
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 2: and whatever actually happened between them that night. First, there

776
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 2: was online misinformation. Was Bob killed by a homeless person?

777
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 2: Did he die? And the mugging gone wrong? Did this

778
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 2: happen because San Francisco is a ruined city. Elon Musk

779
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 2: wade in. Then there were rumors that Kazar and Bob

780
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 2: slept together, intense scrutiny on Kazar's clothes and the state

781
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 2: of her marriage. Then there was reporting on Bob's drug use,

782
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 2: Nima's drug use, Kazar's drug use. For all that, I

783
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,879
Speaker 2: was sort of impressed that the jury came together and

784
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 2: after some brutal back and forth, agreed on a second

785
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 2: degree murder because they determined that the prosecution didn't prove

786
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 2: that the killing was in fact deliberate. It felt rather

787
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 2: even handed to me. So this appears to be the

788
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 2: rare true crime podcast that determines that the criminal justice

789
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 2: system seemed mostly to work, at least in this case.

790
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 2: But at the very end, there was one thing that

791
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 2: caught me by surprise. It was the DA Brooke Jenkins

792
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 2: response after the verdict. She celebrated the result, but immediately

793
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 2: took us back in time to the initial wave of

794
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 2: online outrage about Bob's death.

795
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 16: We all know that after Bob Lee was murdered, Elon

796
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 16: Musk took to Twitter to make an effort to really

797
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 16: shame San Francisco and to make it seem like this

798
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,479
Speaker 16: was about lawlessness in San Francisco and about what's going

799
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 16: on out in our streets, and we knew it something different,

800
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 16: and I think today proved once again.

801
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 2: I asked Jenkins in a later interview, why bring up

802
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 2: Elon Musk after all of this.

803
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 19: I felt that he was somebody who was incapable of

804
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 19: admitting when he was wrong, and so I perhaps was

805
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 19: still holding on to a little a few feelings about that,

806
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 19: and this was like my last chance to sort of

807
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 19: throw in his face, you were wrong, and you owe

808
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 19: us another tweet to say that you were wrong, right,

809
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 19: and that we do what we're supposed to do in

810
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:36,760
Speaker 19: this city when it comes to, you know, accountability.

811
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 2: Her response reminded me that even for the DA, even

812
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 2: though the killer was caught and put away, the Bob

813
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 2: Lee murder trial still felt deeply tied to the city

814
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 2: of San Francisco and its legacy. It's almost like a

815
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 2: hangover from those initial days of wild online rumors. The

816
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 2: conversations about San Francisco that Bob Lee's death said emotion

817
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 2: that there was a dangerous city ruined by liberal leaders,

818
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 2: even though the substance of those conversations had nothing to

819
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 2: do with what killed Bob, They continued. The trial was

820
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 2: able to deflate rumors about this specific story, but the

821
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 2: narrative about dangerous, out of control liberal cities would live on.

822
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 2: That's next time on Foundering. Foundering is reported, hosted and

823
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 2: executive produced by me Sean Wen, Eric Mesiti's mental produced

824
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 2: our show. Bart Warshaw is our audio engineer. Our story

825
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 2: editors are Joshua Brustein, Tom Giles, Anne Vandermay, and Nicole

826
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 2: Beamster Bower. Voice acting by Mark Laydorf. Production help from

827
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 2: Brianna Breen and Jeremy Domas. Be sure to subscribe and

828
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 2: if you like our show, leave her review. Most importantly,

829
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 2: tell your friends you next time

830
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 11: Mhm