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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season two ninety five,

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Speaker 1: episode one of Dally's Guys Day. Production by Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: This is a podcast where we take a deep dive

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Speaker 1: into America's shared consciousness. And it is Tuesday, July eleventh,

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Speaker 1: seven eleven day. Yeah, three slurpees, get them slurpees. It's

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Speaker 1: also All American Pet Photo Day, unless that must be

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Speaker 1: a company. It's also a National Blueberry Muffin Day, National

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Speaker 1: Rainier Cherry Day, Cow Appreciation Day, World Benzo Diazepine Awareness Day,

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Speaker 1: Shout Out Benzos. Just like a sponsored placement by Benzos.

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Speaker 1: I think it's more just to be like, hey, let's

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Speaker 1: be conscious.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like there are adverse effects to, you know, time

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Speaker 2: traveling by use of benzo diazepines, World Population Day, and

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Speaker 2: National Mohito Day. Don't mix the don't mix the benzos

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Speaker 2: with the mohitos.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Please do not worry you will be taken away from

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Speaker 2: the world or it'll go from July eleventh to July thirteenth,

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Speaker 2: real quick.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Well, my name is Jack O'Brien aka Potatoes O'Brien,

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Speaker 1: and I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my

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Speaker 1: co host.

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Speaker 3: Mister Miles grab.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much for having me AKA people

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Speaker 2: lost Greg Gas there because Jack and I were in

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Speaker 2: Las Vegas over the weekend. Shout out everybody who you

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Speaker 2: know showed us love out there and all. Just the

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Speaker 2: NBA con whole thing was was a good time. I

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Speaker 2: bought a Cross Colors bucket hat. Yeah, you take it

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Speaker 2: back to eighty nine.

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Speaker 3: I bought an.

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Speaker 1: Outcast Braves jersey or Outcast Hawk's jersey.

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Speaker 3: Tang Nicks jersey. So we were in our elementric millennial mode.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Miles, we are thrilled to be joined in

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Speaker 1: air third seat by the best selling author of books

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Speaker 1: like John Dies at the End, Zoe Punches the Future,

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Speaker 1: and The Dick the Fourth Book, and that John Dies

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Speaker 1: at the End franchise if this book exists here in

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Speaker 1: the Wrong Universe, and the new Zoe book. He is

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Speaker 1: too drunk for this dystopia, which you can pre order

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Speaker 1: now October. Drop go out and cop must Cop for

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Speaker 1: Parkin fans. He's my former coworker at Crack dot com,

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Speaker 1: co creator the Crack Podcast. Welcome back to this show.

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Speaker 1: Jason Parjin.

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Speaker 4: Says so much about my personality that I perceive that

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Speaker 4: I'm on this show all the time. Yeah, because like

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Speaker 4: that's how bad I am. Keeping up with people. Is

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Speaker 4: a routine for some family member to say, oh, when

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Speaker 4: you got to come out, you know, we haven't seen

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Speaker 4: you in forever, and I'll be like, man, we were

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Speaker 4: just out there for a family a family thing. And

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Speaker 4: then I'll look and the family thing was like Christmas

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Speaker 4: twenty nineteen, So the same thing here. Like every time

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Speaker 4: you invite me on this show, I was like, gosh,

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Speaker 4: you know, we can have just it was just on here.

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Speaker 4: It's like it has any news happened, And it was

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Speaker 4: ten months ago. It was October twenty twenty two when

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Speaker 4: I was last on here. But my perception of time,

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Speaker 4: I guess because I'm old or because I'm constantly behind

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Speaker 4: on deadlines is very strange. So everyone who I've failed

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Speaker 4: to keep up with, including all the people in high

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Speaker 4: school I've not spoken to since literally high school. Please

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Speaker 4: understand from my point of view, it's only been a

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Speaker 4: couple months.

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Speaker 1: Right, jasus actually tired of seeing you.

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Speaker 2: We need a I'm trying to outside of high school.

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Speaker 1: Saw you at graduation? All right, guys, Well, when we

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Speaker 1: created this new format, we're doing some like longer conversation

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Speaker 1: sometimes like you know, book report with author of book

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Speaker 1: style things, interview experts. But one of the things, like

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Speaker 1: the ideas, we don't have to like be about the

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Speaker 1: news for a day. But one of the first things

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do is talk to Jason do like

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Speaker 1: a deeper thing about a more broad topic. Those one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite things we got to do with the

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Speaker 1: Crack podcast, And for this one, we're gonna talk about,

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Speaker 1: like just broadly the subject of how our brain was

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Speaker 1: not designed to deal with the modern world, and like

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Speaker 1: the modern world is getting more and more like a

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Speaker 1: funhouse mirror for the human brain, just kind of like

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Speaker 1: warping and stretching things and magnifying and you know, it's

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Speaker 1: the world is more and more complicated, the way we

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Speaker 1: interact with it is more and more mediated. So it's

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Speaker 1: it is still about the subject that we cover, I think,

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Speaker 1: just in more of a macro sense. So that's what

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Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about. But first, Jason, we

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Speaker 1: do need to get to know you a little bit better.

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Speaker 1: It's been ten months. What is something from your search

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Speaker 1: history that's revealing about who you are?

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Speaker 4: The most recent thing I searched was attractive naked woman.

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Speaker 4: Uh huh, So I didn't know if you if you

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Speaker 4: could do that on the internet, but you.

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Speaker 1: Just found out about that feature.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. But then the most telling thing is I had

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Speaker 4: just searched the letters xQc because that those letters were

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Speaker 4: trending a little bit ago. Because a streamer by the

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Speaker 4: name EXCC signed a year, one hundred million dollar deal

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Speaker 4: with a new streaming service. Because it turns out he's

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Speaker 4: one of the most famous people in the world. And

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Speaker 4: yet another example of where one of the most famous

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Speaker 4: people in the world flew totally outside my radar because

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Speaker 4: they are a streaming personality for the utes and I

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Speaker 4: am an extremely old man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm an EXQC head over here.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm just kidding.

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Speaker 1: I've never seen this person before.

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Speaker 2: But wait, platform did they go to?

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Speaker 3: I mean I'm aware of one. Yeah, what's the new platform?

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Speaker 4: It's called kick, which I thought was already a thing,

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Speaker 4: But this is called kick kic K. It is backed

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Speaker 4: by a huge online gambling company and they apparently have

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Speaker 4: billions to throw around, so they are purchasing a bunch

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Speaker 4: of high profile streamers off of Twitch and YouTube and

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Speaker 4: the other streaming platforms to get going. Because that's how

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Speaker 4: they do it. And this guy got paid one hundred

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Speaker 4: million dollars for two years, fifty million a year because

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Speaker 4: that is the size of his audience while he played

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Speaker 4: video games and chats and eats on camera for ten

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Speaker 4: twelve hours in a row.

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Speaker 3: There you go.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I believe there was a kick, like an attempt

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Speaker 1: at a kick social media platform at some point, like

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Speaker 1: a decade ago.

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Speaker 3: P I K.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was spelled differently and now so now the

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Speaker 1: they're like the problem with that one was it's it

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Speaker 1: wasn't spelled correctly, And we're going we're zagging where other

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Speaker 1: people's Are.

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Speaker 4: We leaving the era of tech companies having to be

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Speaker 4: misspelled versions of other words like tumboard where they just

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Speaker 4: take out like a letter and this is now the

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Speaker 4: name of your thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm like trying to think

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Speaker 2: of what the hot is, Like threads is just threads.

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Speaker 1: You know, they spelled threads correct with like.

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Speaker 2: Th hr ds or something like that, So you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, it sounds like maybe we're leaving that.

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Speaker 1: How's twitch spelled?

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Speaker 2: This?

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Speaker 3: Twitch?

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Speaker 2: Just I know it's like God intended t w T

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Speaker 2: and then.

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Speaker 1: The old English form, Jason, what's something you think is overrated?

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Speaker 4: Loving't you have an opinion on every single thing that

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Speaker 4: happens in the news. Yeah, it's okay to just admit

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Speaker 4: that you don't know. For example, over the weekend, the

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Speaker 4: number one training topic was Jonah Hill. Yeah, because apparently

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Speaker 4: some text messages between him and his girlfriend that makes

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Speaker 4: it seem like he is very I guess, toxic and

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Speaker 4: controlling boyfriend or whatever, And that dominated discussion for like

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Speaker 4: a day and a half of everyone having to have

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Speaker 4: an opinion of is Jonah Hill a bad boyfriend? And

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Speaker 4: I feel like it's okay to just say I don't

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Speaker 4: know either of these people. If I tried to approach

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Speaker 4: either of them on the street, their bodyguards would just

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Speaker 4: rough me up and leave me on the pavement. They

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Speaker 4: care nothing about they care nothing about my opinion.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: It feels like you're adding a cognitive load. It's okay

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Speaker 4: to say I don't know. I don't know these people.

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Speaker 4: Relationships are complicated. You should not be having complex relationship

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Speaker 4: discussions over text. In my view, I think that's probably

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Speaker 4: bad by itself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm about forty pages in on my opinion that

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Speaker 1: I'm writing on the matter. It's kind of like a

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court opinion.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, and I are working on a huge substack

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Speaker 2: entry on this one, just just sort of forensically analyzing

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Speaker 2: everything and some of the misspellings. But I think with

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Speaker 2: the Jonah Hill thing, it feels like one of those

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Speaker 2: things where a lot of people, I think we're kind

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Speaker 2: of looking for a reason to not like him, and there's.

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Speaker 1: Like an elting Ris factor where yeah, like people fun

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Speaker 1: in the scenes have been like he's kind of a dick, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there were so many people who are like, I'm

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Speaker 2: not surprised. It's like do you even need to tweet that?

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Speaker 2: But also that's where we are. I think the other

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Speaker 2: version of this Jason that I saw a lot of

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Speaker 2: was especially during the Ocean Gate Titanic Submarine thing, where

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Speaker 2: suddenly people became like atmospheric scientists, like out of nowhere,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, really, like, you're going out there

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Speaker 2: with your chest out, like with this opinion about what

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Speaker 2: crush depths are, when your previous tweets have been about like,

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Speaker 2: you know, puppies in different like Naruto wigs.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I feel like there's a pressure people put in

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Speaker 4: themselves to feel like they need to have a strong

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Speaker 4: strident stance on something, and even if it's something you

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Speaker 4: agree with, people will keep trying to find more and

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Speaker 4: more technical things. You know, for example, I think racism

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Speaker 4: is bad. I think more opportunities should be given to minorities.

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Speaker 4: Once you start getting into the fine minutia of how

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Speaker 4: Ivy League schools do their affirmative action, right, I don't know,

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Speaker 4: you're starting to get out of my depth. If like, well,

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Speaker 4: do you think the legacy admissions should be done at this?

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Speaker 4: I would need a year to properly educate myself to

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Speaker 4: give you an actual opinion. Can I just revert back

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Speaker 4: to I think racism is bad and that I'm not

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Speaker 4: going to stay here a pretend to understand. And I

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Speaker 4: feel like every argument eventually gets to that point where

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Speaker 4: it's like I believe in trans right, It's like, well,

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Speaker 4: do you think it's okay for a six year old

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Speaker 4: to go on puberty blockers? I'm not a doctor. That's

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Speaker 4: a discussion with your I don't even know what that is.

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Speaker 4: And if you'd say you know what that is, I

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Speaker 4: think you're lying too. Yeah, And it's like they keep

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Speaker 4: trying to find finer and finer points of like so

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Speaker 4: we can finally have something we can nail at each

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Speaker 4: other and about fists. Like, man, when you hear a

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Speaker 4: subject that you know, like from your work, and you

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Speaker 4: hear outsiders yelling about it, they sound so stupid, And

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Speaker 4: then you have to realize it to people who actually

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Speaker 4: understand submarines, how dumb we all sounded. But it's like

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Speaker 4: all these these idiots should have known not to go

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Speaker 4: on that things like I wouldn't they charged me.

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Speaker 1: I The obsession with that story came from everyone was

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Speaker 1: like I wouldn't have gone on that ship.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people were like it had a PlayStation controller,

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Speaker 2: and then like a few navel people are like people

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Speaker 2: you like, those are peripheral devices that are even used

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Speaker 2: on like very expensive things, Like it's not don't just

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Speaker 2: use that as your example to say that this whole

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Speaker 2: thing was a fucked up operation.

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Speaker 4: Do you understand that there's like a billion dollars in

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Speaker 4: research and development that went into that controller to come

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Speaker 4: up with that design, Like Sony did not just crap

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Speaker 4: that thing out. That's been iterated across like twenty years

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Speaker 4: of play testing and everything else, right, Like they have

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Speaker 4: the finest there are more experts designing those controllers, and

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Speaker 4: there are designing submarines that it's that pressure to feel

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Speaker 4: like you have to And then the people yelling about well,

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Speaker 4: do they deserve it because they're rich? It's like there's

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Speaker 4: nuance there. The guy running the sub company was a

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Speaker 4: dumb ass. But did the nineteen year old kid who

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Speaker 4: was invited to go on as he did he deserve

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Speaker 4: to die. It's like he went because his dad took him.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: But you know, you know, you're not required to hold

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Speaker 4: an opinion on everything. You can feel that weight just

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Speaker 4: roll off your shoulders if you just admit, yes, this

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Speaker 4: is a thing that happens. It has zero impact on

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Speaker 4: my life at all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not much I can personally do about it. As

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Speaker 1: I mean, it kind of touches on what we're gonna

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Speaker 1: be talking about later. What's something you think is underrated?

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Speaker 3: Old Twitter?

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Speaker 4: Here's a trend that drives me crazy, where when a

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Speaker 4: thing exists, we do nothing but complain about it. We

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Speaker 4: used to call Twitter the hell site, and then the

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Speaker 4: moment somebody comes in and changes it or ruins it,

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Speaker 4: it's endless nostalgia for the wonderful old thing. So it's

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Speaker 4: just negative emotion the whole time.

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Speaker 3: I hate it.

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Speaker 4: I hate it. I hate it. Well, where to go?

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Speaker 4: My life sucks now that it's gone. It's like, okay, well,

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Speaker 4: if you miss it that much, can you admit that

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Speaker 4: it brought something positive to your life before? Then?

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Speaker 1: Right? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I like the new one.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm kind of kind of a fan of this

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Speaker 1: musk guy. I want to see what he's what he's

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Speaker 1: doing with this thing. These guys might fuck.

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Speaker 2: It's wobbling like crazy now, like with the kind of

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Speaker 2: things that I see getting, Like on the suggested part

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Speaker 2: where you're like, I don't do you want to put

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Speaker 2: like straight up neo Nazi holocaust Denisle tweets in front

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Speaker 2: of me like this right now, Like okay, all right, Twitter,

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Speaker 2: But I mean to be fair, you were getting that

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Speaker 2: even before Elon, just more now they have blue check.

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Speaker 1: Marks, right, it's easier to differentiate.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean to be clear, he has broken it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he has completely broken it, and like it from

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Speaker 1: that respect, just like appreciating all the work and all

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Speaker 1: the things that were happening behind the scenes to make

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Speaker 1: a site that large, like operational is definitely something I've

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Speaker 1: learned to appreciate in the past weeks months. Yeah, it's yeah.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to think, what was the last thing we

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Speaker 2: were all like just complaining about and then the second

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Speaker 2: it got like messed, they're like, oh, now you ruin

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Speaker 2: the thing we hate, like because it is true and

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Speaker 2: it does feel like this very you know, like part

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Speaker 2: of our human nature to do this kind of shit.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's every time they update any kind of software.

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Speaker 4: It's I don't know, it's every time there's a sequel

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Speaker 4: to a game, it always gets negatively compared to the

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Speaker 4: previous game in the series. But when it was out,

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Speaker 4: all people talked about how they had ruined it. It's

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Speaker 4: a fucked it's a weird it's a weird cycle. But

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Speaker 4: I guess, you know, in a broader sense, like if

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Speaker 4: my WiFi goes down, that ruins my life for however

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Speaker 4: long it's down right, like if I have it, But

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Speaker 4: when it comes back up, I don't feel joy of like, yes,

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Speaker 4: the modern miracle is back. I have access to all

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Speaker 4: of the universe's knowledge again.

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Speaker 3: Right, it's just like all right, it's likely.

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Speaker 4: I can do all the do all my miserable work

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Speaker 4: out that it's back up. I don't know. We this

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Speaker 4: is probably pick these on purpose because that plays into

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Speaker 4: what we're going to talk about, where it's like you

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Speaker 4: frame it in the most the most distressing manner in

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Speaker 4: both directions.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I even I've heard like people wait

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Speaker 1: in interviews with NBA champions, like they talk about like

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Speaker 1: the phenomenon you just described of like the losses hurt

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Speaker 1: worse than like winning the championship. Like, I think there's

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Speaker 1: something psychological to that, like risk reward sort of system

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Speaker 1: that we've all we've all put ourselves into a little bit.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, well I think, yeah, that that seems like

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Speaker 2: more of like yeah, like it like that's sort of

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Speaker 2: definitely from our like evolutionary psychology aspect of like we

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Speaker 2: had to know about like the threats of things around us,

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Speaker 2: so those things stuck with us longer than like oh,

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Speaker 2: this pleasant flower. It's like no, that animal, dangerous predator.

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Speaker 3: Run. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yes, the fear has to be stronger than the promise

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Speaker 4: of ward. It's the carrot and the stick thing, right, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, or you get lazy, you get lazy, exactly. I've

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Speaker 1: never liked carrots enough for that trick to work on me.

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Speaker 1: I've always said, you know, getting beat with a stick

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Speaker 1: and then giving me carrot as the only other the

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Speaker 1: only reward. You know, it's been tried many times.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, quick life, if there's someone dangling a carrot on

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Speaker 2: a stick, just look behind you and just deck that full.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and just take this and just take their whole ship. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's the trick to that one.

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Speaker 4: All right, give me to the storehouse where you keep

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Speaker 4: the carrots.

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Speaker 3: That's right? What what you heard me? Motherfucker?

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Speaker 1: All right, let's take a quick break and we'll come

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Speaker 1: back and keep talking about this. We'll be right back,

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Speaker 1: and we're back and back in our crack days. I

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Speaker 1: worked on an article about like cognitive biases that affect

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Speaker 1: our ability to understand money, and like the piece really

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Speaker 1: like zoomed in on examples of how traditional media interacts

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Speaker 1: with a brain that was designed millions of years ago

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Speaker 1: for an animal that was trying to survive the food chain,

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Speaker 1: and like, our brain is designed to process like fairly

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Speaker 1: simple visual stimuli in a pretty straightforward way. That tree

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Speaker 1: has fruit on it, Remember that tree? And then you know,

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Speaker 1: the point in the article was, like if you only

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Speaker 1: show the person who won the lottery on TV and

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Speaker 1: not the you know, billions of people who lose the

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Speaker 1: lottery every day. It creates a imprint of like that's

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Speaker 1: the fruit tree, that's that's the place to go, and

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Speaker 1: like that is so basic, that's such a basic thing

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Speaker 1: that just feels like so quaint and antiqu antiquated compared

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Speaker 1: to the modern world that we're existing, where the increasing

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Speaker 1: use of AI to create intentionally false stories, use of

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Speaker 1: like technology really seems to be accelerating things to in

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Speaker 1: some cases like make them worse or at least there's

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Speaker 1: a feeling that that is the case in like day

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Speaker 1: to day our day to day lives. And so we

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about kind of all the ways that

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Speaker 1: the modern world is sort of this funhouse mirror that

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Speaker 1: our brand's ability to interact with it it like just

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Speaker 1: warps and stretches, and it's not going well. It seems

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Speaker 1: like based on some of these statistics that you pulled.

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Speaker 4: Jason, Well, I wanted to pull some stance because when

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Speaker 4: we talk about like people being anxious or depressed or

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Speaker 4: whatever these days, it's not just talking about vibes, Like

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Speaker 4: you can look at the statistics. So suicide rates been

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Speaker 4: climbing in the USA for the last twenty years. Around

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Speaker 4: two thousand is when most of these trends started to

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Speaker 4: skew higher. That is a distinctly American phenomenon. Most other

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Speaker 4: country suicide rates have been steadily falling. This is an

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Speaker 4: American thing, but there's a large number they call deaths

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Speaker 4: of despair where they lump together suicide, alcohol debts, drug

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Speaker 4: related deaths, and all of that has skewed up since

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Speaker 4: two thousand and then since around twenty ten has started

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Speaker 4: to like most of them have kind of started to spike.

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Speaker 4: Now part of you you mentioned, like the deaths of

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Speaker 4: the drug overdose deaths. Some of that is separately just

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Speaker 4: the opioid epidemic and fentanyl, but also some of those

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Speaker 4: overdoses are intentional, but if there's no note left behind,

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Speaker 4: they just put it down as overdose because of course, how.

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Speaker 3: Do you know?

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Speaker 4: So that's and so. And then anxiety and depression both

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Speaker 4: have been rising up, specifically among the youth again going

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Speaker 4: back to around two thousand and nine twenty ten. Now

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Speaker 4: there's two ways people interpret this that are controversial. You

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Speaker 4: can either say that these things have been going up

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Speaker 4: in the Internet era and then have accelerated in the

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Speaker 4: smartphone era, or you can say, well, these things have

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Speaker 4: gone up since nine to eleven and accelerated since the

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Speaker 4: financial crisis of two thousand and eight. When we start

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Speaker 4: talking about how the media and smartphones and all those

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Speaker 4: things make people more anxious, this upsets people because the

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Speaker 4: response is always, well, we're not anxious because of phones.

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Speaker 4: We're anxious because the world is on fire. Our assertion

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Speaker 4: is not that there are no problems in the world.

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Speaker 4: Our assertion, or at least mine, is that the way media,

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Speaker 4: the media environment, is one of those problems. It's one

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Speaker 4: of those things that make things worse.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a lot of things, like all

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Speaker 1: the things that you were saying, like the world is

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Speaker 1: on fire nine to eleven, the economic collapse, and then

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Speaker 1: also having devices in our hands feeding us a steady

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Speaker 1: stream of media that's like specifically tailored to us and

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Speaker 1: specifically based on preferences of what makes us angriest or

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Speaker 1: most frightened. Like those things can't be good. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think there's miles You pulled an Al Jazeera story

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Speaker 1: about like outrage headlines increasing.

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Speaker 2: Well, because I mean, yeah, again, like we're there's so

404
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Speaker 2: many facets of how we end up with bad vibes.

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Speaker 2: The bad vibes decades uh trademarked, but yeah, like I

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Speaker 2: think one of them is, you know, like this is

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Speaker 2: some version of like mean world syndrome where a lot

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Speaker 2: of your media diet are just giving you sort of

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Speaker 2: an over emphasis on the terrible things that are happening,

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Speaker 2: which can just lead to like being more cynical or

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Speaker 2: just being like what the fuck.

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Speaker 3: Is going on?

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Speaker 2: And yeah, like with Al Jazeera, they analyze like headlines,

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Speaker 2: like like tens of thousands of headlines from twenty to

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen just to see what the emotional charge of

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Speaker 2: was of some of these headlines, and they've noticed that

417
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Speaker 2: things have just gotten more and more increasingly negative since

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Speaker 2: the year two thousand, like you know, headlines that say

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Speaker 2: like quote Brazil prison riot leaves nine dead rather than

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Speaker 2: things like a new lens restores vision and brings relief.

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Speaker 3: And we're seeing just that sort of that.

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Speaker 2: Rise in those kinds of headlines be equally sort of

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Speaker 2: distributed between the right and left, but there is there

424
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Speaker 2: is an edge on the right, like with conservative media

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Speaker 2: definitely having those, you know, a bigger emphasis on the

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Speaker 2: fear based kind of headline. And I feel the same

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Speaker 2: way too, Like because reading as much news as I do,

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Speaker 2: or we have to making this show like that absolutely

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Speaker 2: has an effect on me. But then you kind of

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Speaker 2: have to take a step back and like, what are

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Speaker 2: the statistics saying you're actually getting something completely different?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but the headlines.

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Speaker 4: And again note that there's the year two thousand again

434
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Speaker 4: when going back to the origin of that, what was

435
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Speaker 4: driven by that was the death of news being a

436
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Speaker 4: print medium versus news being an online medium, because again

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Speaker 4: with newspaper headlines, like of course, once pon a time

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Speaker 4: they had to sell papers that now individual stories have

439
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 4: to get clicked on. Yeah, and very very quickly, just

440
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 4: through ab testing. Again there's no conspiracy here. Just through

441
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,719
Speaker 4: tracking user behavior, they figured out that the more emotionally

442
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 4: charged I mean, we saw this cracked, the more emotionally

443
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 4: charged headline gets clicked. So now every individual headline because

444
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 4: you know, once upon a time you'd have a newspaper

445
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 4: with a big headline across the top, you know, Nixon

446
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,400
Speaker 4: goes to jail or whatever. I don't think Nixon never

447
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 4: actually went with the other Yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter.

448
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 1: Would have sold papers and it would have been a

449
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: headline in the modern.

450
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 4: Area, and then a lot of the other headlines would

451
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 4: be very boring and straightforward city council votes to do whatever. Well, now,

452
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 4: if you want people to click on that boring city

453
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 4: council story, if it's your job as a journalist get

454
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,199
Speaker 4: people to click, there's got to be an angle on

455
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 4: there that's going to get people mad. And so beyond

456
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 4: the examples you gave here, you have the news, you know,

457
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 4: the actual news organization's gathering news. But then you have

458
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 4: the aggregators of the content like Coffington Post, BuzzFeed, Vox,

459
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 4: all of these sites that basically would take the headline

460
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 4: and then do a little blog post about it, and

461
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 4: those titles would be things like, you know, if you're

462
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 4: not paying attention to this, you're not angry enough, or

463
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 4: this clip is going to leave you outraged when you

464
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 4: see how they treated this disabled man at McDonald's, you're

465
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 4: going to be furious, Like literally putting the emotion in

466
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 4: the headline. If you're not mad, you're not a good person, right,

467
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 4: and making that part of the ethos of the time

468
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 4: that it's like, if you want to be a good

469
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 4: person who cares about the world, you must be angry

470
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 4: all the time because there's so much there's so much

471
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 4: injustice or whatever. Never Mind that that doesn't help that

472
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 4: person in the video. Never Mind that you're watching a

473
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 4: clip from three years ago and everyone has forgotten about it.

474
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 4: It doesn't matter. It has bubbled up on Reddit and

475
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 4: now everybody's mad again to no effect, Like it's not

476
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 4: motivating you to help this person.

477
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

478
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: What one old, outdated technology I think we're underrating is newsies.

479
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: These headlines are doing. You know, newsies just used to

480
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: yell at you to read the newspaper and people would

481
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: just listen because they were scared of the newsies. But

482
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: now they have to scare us with the actual content

483
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 1: of the headline, and then I think, you know, we've

484
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: also talked recently about how the number of people who

485
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 1: identify with a religion or involved in a religion, and

486
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: the number of people who have access to or regular

487
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: contact with a community like both are just on an

488
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: all time low and going lower. And so I think

489
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: that there's a broad kind of you can call it

490
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: spiritual or like broadly psychological level more than ever before,

491
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:47,479
Speaker 1: where we don't have access to answering some of the

492
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 1: big questions, and so like we speculated in past one

493
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: of these like kind of broad episodes about the idea

494
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: that like maybe stand culture is coming from that this

495
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: need to sublimate ourselves to something higher and like some

496
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: mythical like godhead figure or like leader person like because

497
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: we're not getting that anywhere else, and so like we

498
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: get stand culture or the stories of the movies that

499
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: make an imprint on us when we're very young, like

500
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: Star Wars or you know, Harry Potter, the Matrix, Like

501
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 1: these are our mythical stories that we have chosen to

502
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: kind of put put ourselves like derive our meaning from.

503
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: And that that actually made a lot of sense of

504
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 1: how people react, like how Star Wars fans are like

505
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: fandoms react like there is a religious war when something

506
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: happens that doesn't cohere to the dogma that they were

507
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: raised on. But I think there's a lot of like

508
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: kind of grasping for meaning as technology has isolated us

509
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: from one another and from the communities that used to

510
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: allow people to sort of dissolve their sense of self

511
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: into like a broader, less kind of self centered way

512
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 1: of viewing the world. And I mean, yeah, we were

513
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: talking about like consumer culture as like kind of another

514
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 1: example of where we see this, I mean with with

515
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 1: I guess stand culture is one example of that, but consumerism,

516
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: people have become like very serious consumers, like to like

517
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: on a deep, deeply personal level.

518
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, because I mean like to your point,

519
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't you know, the lack of religion

520
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: or I think the sense of community more than like finding.

521
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 2: I mean, people are finding meaning in other things, but

522
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 2: I don't know how many people are explicitly like I

523
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 2: just at least something that kind of explains everything. And

524
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 2: I think the way we pivot to that is just

525
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 2: to find, like you say, like because we feel so

526
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 2: isolated where we want to find community in these other

527
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: ways that like interesting to us. Because I'm not interested

528
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 2: in religion, yeah, but I'm interested in Arsenal Football club,

529
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 2: and that is the closest way I begin to devote

530
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 2: myself to something that's like part like there's group, there's

531
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 2: like a in group where I'm trying to be like

532
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 2: identify with these other supporters.

533
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 3: I go through the.

534
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: Religious ceremonies of like watching the matches and getting very

535
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 2: emotional as I watch them, and be very like emotionally

536
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: moved when things go up or down and so like

537
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 2: I find that like most people have like a topic

538
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 2: where they will bring that sort of level of like

539
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: devotion to, you know, like what they're paying attention to

540
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 2: and what they're willing to debate people on, et cetera.

541
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: Because yeah, like we're all we're all just trying to

542
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 2: find something that like feels good and helps us feel

543
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 2: connected at the end of the day at least certainly

544
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 2: that I can speak for myself in that very narrow example.

545
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 3: Yes, this is.

546
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 4: Something else where you can tract in statistics, like the

547
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 4: average number of friends and close friends a person has

548
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 4: again has been dropping since the nineties, and it is

549
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 4: just the people used to meet their friends at church,

550
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 4: They used to meet their friends at the office, and

551
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 4: now a lot of people work at home, you know.

552
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 4: And that's the thing where we can sit here and

553
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 4: talk about as like a mystical thing, like there's no

554
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 4: sense of unity or community or whatever, but from just

555
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 4: a practical point of view, having a friend who will

556
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 4: give you a ride to the airport, or who will

557
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 4: help you move or you know, like just as in

558
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 4: a practical manner, we that's part of what people don't

559
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 4: get this, It's part of what a church provided like

560
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 4: the church when one person got sick and couldn't work,

561
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 4: the other members of the church would bring food to

562
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 4: their house. They would come help them clean like that

563
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 4: was and you did it because it's like, hey, we

564
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 4: all are Baptists or whatever, and we are all on

565
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 4: the same team.

566
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 3: And it was.

567
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 4: That's something that is humans do everywhere that you find

568
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 4: humans as we organize and get together, but we usually

569
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 4: have to have something to rally around, a symbol or

570
00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 4: something a tree, this tree siping. We all yeah, whatever

571
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 4: it is, you know. And unfortunately that also makes us

572
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 4: go to war with one another. If you see somebody

573
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 4: in a Red Sox jersey and you're like a Yankee

574
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 4: fan and then it's like, all right, let's let's go

575
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 4: punch that guy. But when you talk about and there's

576
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 4: a term that is for the modern situation, which is atomization,

577
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 4: where you've adomized people, where now if you need a

578
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 4: ride to the airport, you're going to you know, pay

579
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 4: for an uber and so many of these things that

580
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 4: used to be stuff that friends would do. It's like, well,

581
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 4: now it's a corporation doing it for you. And I'm

582
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 4: not saying that the friends you know purely online aren't

583
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 4: your real friends, but it's a different type of friendship.

584
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 4: If it's somebody who you can't call when you've broken

585
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 4: your leg, you need somebody go get groceries for you,

586
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 4: or vice versa. If you're not the person that like,

587
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 4: you feel obligator to do that because they're my friend,

588
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 4: like they depend on me. It means something to be needed,

589
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 4: to be dependent on, Like to get in a situation

590
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 4: where nobody depends on you. I'm like, I don't have

591
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 4: children or whatever, but like I don't have friends where

592
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 4: that friend's gonna call me in the middle of I said, hey,

593
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 4: I need you to come bail me out of jail.

594
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 4: Like that sucks in the moment, but knowing that somebody

595
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 4: needs you is what keeps you going. When you're that

596
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 4: isolated from real life connections, it's too easy to just

597
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 4: drift away. Humans need to be needed. Do we need

598
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 4: that actual in real life connection.

599
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 2: Which is interesting too because I see this, like on

600
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 2: TikTok more and more of people posting like these strategies

601
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 2: that come off as like the most manipulative sort of

602
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 2: like sadistic things where they talk about it's like you

603
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 2: got to be needed, and that's how you do It's

604
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 2: how you develop even deeper relationships. I do this thing

605
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 2: with my wife where I unhook the chain from the

606
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 2: toilet handle so she'll need me, and when the toilet

607
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 2: isn't working, she will then associate me with someone who

608
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 2: can come and solve a problem, and then that helps

609
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: create a deeper love. And you're like, oh my god,

610
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 2: and people are like really like, I mean, it's that

611
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 2: that's a kind of fringe element of TikTok, But more

612
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 2: and more people are taking these sort of things and

613
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: sort of finding ways to like manufacture these kinds of

614
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 2: connections because they aren't happening like normally either, And you're

615
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 2: kind of like this sounds like sociopathic. But on the

616
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 2: other side of it, you can see people sort of

617
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: like yearning for like, yeah, how do I cultivate a

618
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 2: deeper connection? Do I need to sort of gaslight this person?

619
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 2: And then thinking that the toilet never works and I'm

620
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 2: the the like magical fixer of that. But again, like

621
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: you see it expressed in so many ways of that

622
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 2: there is this deeper human thing lacking.

623
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, then a system from it's always sunny

624
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 4: in Philadelphia, right, right if you don't know that reference.

625
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: Right, But a strange like when one of your human

626
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: interactions most common human interactions is like an uber driver,

627
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: like a person a stranger you can put on quiet

628
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: mode like when you're having a conversation with them. Then

629
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: it makes sense to me that that sort of manipulation

630
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: and viewing other people as a means to an end

631
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: could bleed into how you view like other other parts

632
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: of your life. Right if everything's just sort of a

633
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: transactional and I mean they talk about this new sort

634
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: of information and also like just day to day economy

635
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: as being a way to reduce the friction of that

636
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: like got in the way of some of our consumer

637
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: like spending habits, and like friction in many cases seems

638
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: to be human interaction. So I think one thing we're

639
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: going to say overall human interaction good. Find ways to

640
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: be part of a community, you know, preferably one that

641
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: needs you and gives you meaning.

642
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 4: My Also, next time you go on TikTok, like there's

643
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 4: a meta narrative and that video you saw because that

644
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 4: algorithm floated up to you a video where the actual

645
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 4: message was people are crazy out there and relationships are weird.

646
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 4: And toxic these days, you would be shocked at what

647
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 4: percentage of the feed is some subtle message, some subtle

648
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 4: version of out there is dangerous.

649
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: Right.

650
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 4: Guys are sexist, women are crazy, Their standards are super high.

651
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 4: You'll be accused of sexual harassment if you ever try

652
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 4: to talk to a woman in any setting. And there's

653
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 4: this meta message of the only safe place is at

654
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 4: home looking at a screen.

655
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, women out there and sees people who aren't there,

656
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: which just as you mentioned as a video, like it's

657
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: a person having a mental health episode. That was everywhere

658
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,720
Speaker 1: for like a week, and I never would have seen

659
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 1: thirty you know, twenty maybe like ten years ago.

660
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 4: You know, there was a time when that wouldn't have

661
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 4: even shown up in like the police blaughter your local paper.

662
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 4: It was a non event. Somebody threw a fit on it,

663
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 4: but because it was captured on camera. But the message

664
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 4: is it's scary to fly. There's crazy people out there,

665
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 4: and any conservative news like you, if you look at

666
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 4: the comments on any conservative news outlet, it's like, well,

667
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 4: I won't even drive through this city like it's just

668
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 4: mac It's like, no, it's not.

669
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 3: I've been.

670
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 4: There's people walking around and shopping and eating the restaurants.

671
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: Bit.

672
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 4: It's like, no, from from their point of view, it's

673
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 4: just cars on fire, smashed windows. Like if you are

674
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 4: a white person, the minorities will just drag you off

675
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 4: the street because they all it's Antifa and the Black

676
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 4: Lives Matter. It's like, you've got such a weird view

677
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 4: of the world. But it's all you're only safe at home.

678
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 4: Like you have people living in the middle of whatever,

679
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 4: Oklahoma or Montana, someplace where they haven't had a violent crime,

680
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 4: and you know, like in six months, where they've got

681
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 4: cameras all over the out side of their house and

682
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 4: they've got a shotgun under their bed because they're sure

683
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 4: that at any moment a gang of twenty five guys

684
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:04,959
Speaker 4: is going to come try to take over their house

685
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 4: because it's something they saw on the news. It's like, well,

686
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 4: you know, like in Portland and the Walgreens, old just

687
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 4: have like twenty five looters show up and steal everything

688
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 4: that could happen to me at any time here in

689
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 4: North Dakota.

690
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 3: Right, It's like, and you see when you see.

691
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 4: Their fear and how irrational it is from the outside,

692
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 4: your fear also looks like that to someone else, like

693
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 4: we all have been put into kind of a little

694
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 4: a little box, a little fear box.

695
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,959
Speaker 2: Well, I think, like to your point, like especially about

696
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 2: like I think of things like reddit right, and the

697
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: subreddit public Freakout. There's like a subreddit called public freakout

698
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: that's really popular and it's mostly a lot of people

699
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 2: just having some kind of like mental health crisis or

700
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 2: something like that, or just some wild thing that's going on.

701
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 2: But when you think about like when you're like a kid,

702
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 2: I remember being like, oh, what's the ocean like? Or

703
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: I'm trying to like, you know, draw on experiences I have.

704
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 2: Most of them are like media rest friends to memories

705
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 2: I have like of a movie or something I saw

706
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 2: on TV that was forming even my own concept of

707
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 2: what something was. And now that we have like video

708
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 2: that's like irl type sort of video from cameras that

709
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 2: sort of that ups the stakes even more where people

710
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 2: begin to associate well, I did see this one clip

711
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 2: of this thing happening in this place, Now that that

712
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 2: is exactly what is going to happen to me and

713
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: has this effect of just ramping up these fears and

714
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: like a good like you know. An example of this

715
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 2: is like you're saying, Jason, Like, especially on conservative news,

716
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: the way they portray certain cities and what quote unquote

717
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 2: crime waves are happening. That has this effect on us

718
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 2: just as human beings, where the more we're put into

719
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 2: a fear state, the more malleable we become. And also

720
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 2: it we inch closer and closer to being in a

721
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 2: mindset or a mind state where solving things violently is

722
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: acceptable because we see just how fucked up and like

723
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 2: agro and violent the world is, and just looking at

724
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 2: all of those things on each other, it's like, at

725
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 2: some point for me, like I realized that the way

726
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 2: to even break that kind of cycle was first just

727
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 2: to have awareness because a lot of the time, if

728
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 2: I am getting caught up on what I read in

729
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 2: the headlines, it it feeds on like, you know, I

730
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 2: start ruminating on things that aren't actually necessarily helpful to

731
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 2: me because it's also not the reality. Because we talk

732
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: about the quote unquote crime waves that were that everyone

733
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: wanted to talk about in the last year that just

734
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 2: didn't exist, and it's it's much easier to be like, Okay,

735
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 2: I know I'm seeing a lot of like over emphasis

736
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 2: on these like visually really like you know, uh, provocative

737
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: images and videos, but that's not actually that's not that's

738
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 2: not the most accurate depiction on what on what is happening.

739
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's specifically like designed that way. It's specifically

740
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: based on like it's nothing is based on reality as

741
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: much as it's based on what is going to feed.

742
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 1: Like nobody was sitting back and being like, what we're

743
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: going to make up a crime wave. It was that

744
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: people's like that that was the story that made people

745
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 1: have the most scared reaction, and therefore they clicked on it,

746
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: and therefore they got more of it and the media

747
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: you know, keeps feeding them. All Right, let's let's take

748
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: a quick break and we'll come back. We'll talk about climate,

749
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 1: which I think plays into this in a bunch of ways,

750
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 1: and also just you know, are there solutions, like what

751
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: can we do?

752
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 4: No?

753
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 1: Then nothing and we're back. So one thing that we've

754
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: talked about in the past, like specifically, I think it

755
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: came up when we were covering the really disheartening trends

756
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: in the mental health of young people. And you know,

757
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,760
Speaker 1: I think for a long time screens were being blamed

758
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: kind of exclusively and then in this latest round, it

759
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: seemed like people were still on screens, but they started

760
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 1: like bringing the environment into the conversation. And that makes

761
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: a lot of sense to me that there is a

762
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 1: unprecedented like when we talk about like these are things

763
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: that we didn't have to deal with thirty years ago,

764
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: the climate crisis, and like the amount of things that

765
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 1: are going to need to change in order to address

766
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: it and make the world like habitable for the next

767
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: century is this massive looming threat. So I think going

768
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: into this, I was like nobody's doing anything about it,

769
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 1: or at least like the you know, corporations are making

770
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: it so it's incredibly hard to do anything about it.

771
00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: And I spent the weekend like researching things like Kim

772
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: Stanley Robinson, the author of Ministry for the Future, who

773
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,919
Speaker 1: is like, you know, a leftist who knows more about

774
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: climate policy than I do, and he you know, underlines

775
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,399
Speaker 1: some of the reasons for concern, but he also has

776
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:18,760
Speaker 1: reasons for hope that I hadn't felt as hopeful about,

777
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: like some of the economic solutions that some of the

778
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 1: investment that is happening already like seems to be encouraging

779
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: to him, And so you know, it's it's frustrating to

780
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: be hurtling towards a disaster and have like The New

781
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: York Times doing sponsor content for BP. But you know,

782
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: in addition to the investment opportunities that are like helping

783
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: you know, get the amount of money that's being invested

784
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 1: into making things more sustainable. I feel like one of

785
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: the things I took away from doing that research is

786
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: that there's also like a more meaningful life I think

787
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: waiting for us when the world is able to accept

788
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: the challenge of like the changing the world from the

789
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: current system into what it's going to need to be

790
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: for the survival of the species or like you know,

791
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: well maybe we'll have that acceptance like thrust onto us

792
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: by like a series of worsening climate disasters. But just

793
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: like thinking about that as like the operational you know,

794
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: thing that could give like generations to come meaning I

795
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: think is at least like somewhat in the context that

796
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: we're talking about, Like it feels like, I guess somewhat

797
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: hopeful if we can find a way to bring that

798
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 1: change in because like there you know, when there is

799
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: a tragedy, when there's a hurricane or massive flood, like

800
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 1: people work together with like their community with like their

801
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: their neighbor who they thought they hated, and like, you know,

802
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 1: there's meaning and there's there's work being done that actually

803
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 1: has results and helps helps people. So yeah, I don't know,

804
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 1: it feels like we're going to buy necessity need to

805
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: address some of this stuff in the coming years, Like

806
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: we to avoid the disasters, we probably need to be

807
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: further along than we already are. But I could see

808
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: a more meaningful world where where like some of the

809
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: solutions to these problems that we're talking about actually are necessary.

810
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 4: I guess that's kind of my point though it was

811
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 4: just if But if you're out there listening to this,

812
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,919
Speaker 4: if believing that we are in the end times, if

813
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 4: that motivates you to be like a better person, Like

814
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,439
Speaker 4: if you're going out and learning every possible new skill

815
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 4: because you're like, hey, thirty years from now, I'm going

816
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 4: to need to know how to do all this stuff,

817
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 4: and I'm gonna need to be physically in good shape.

818
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 4: I'm going to need to be able to you know,

819
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 4: because there may not be doctors around. I'm going to

820
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 4: need to be able to take care of my neighbors.

821
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 4: I'm going to need to be strong that fine. If

822
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 4: that's if that's not what I'm seeing the stance that

823
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 4: we shared earlier. If the message you're getting from the

824
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 4: news you're taking in is we're screwed, so why bother

825
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 4: And you find yourself just glued to the sofa and

826
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 4: doom scrolling on a screen, that to me is the

827
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 4: same thing as if I had a friend who had

828
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 4: a wife and family and the guy was just on

829
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 4: the sofa all day. He'd quit his job. He's not

830
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 4: doing not cleaning the house, not doing anything, And I

831
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,839
Speaker 4: asked him why. He's like, well, well, because I'm going

832
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 4: to die one day. Like once I became aware of

833
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 4: my mortality, Well, what's the point. What's the point of

834
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 4: doing anything? Like you would not the way you try

835
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 4: to comfort him would not be well, you don't know.

836
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 4: Maybe they'll cure death, Maybe they'll you'll be able to

837
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,959
Speaker 4: upload your brain to a machine. You would say to him, Look,

838
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 4: you have a wife and child, you have friends, You

839
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 4: need to you need to work this out. Yes, we're

840
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 4: all going to die someday. This has always been the case.

841
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 4: You need to find a way to cope with it

842
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 4: that lets you get up and live your life. Not

843
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 4: to be ignorant of it. I'm asking you to pretend

844
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 4: that death is and a thing. I'm asking you to

845
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 4: come to terms with it. So there's a meme that

846
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 4: I've seen going around where somebody's talking about like I

847
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 4: keep being asked what I'm going to do in ten

848
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 4: years at a job interview. There's not going to be

849
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 4: a ten years, right. That is as unscientific as saying

850
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 4: that climate change isn't real. That's as unscientific as being

851
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 4: anti vax. There's no scientist saying that civilization won't exist

852
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 4: in twenty years. And twenty years, you're still going to

853
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 4: have jobs and memos and dress codes and bills and

854
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 4: weddings and funerals to go to. No matter, even in

855
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,919
Speaker 4: the worst climate change scenarios, is still going to be there.

856
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 4: What you're talking about is, you know, things can get

857
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 4: worse in the way the pandemic made things worse. But

858
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 4: we have largely even the progress we've made so far

859
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 4: thanks to the Paris Agreement, thanks to all sorts of

860
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 4: meaningful actions that has been taken, we've avoided the worst

861
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 4: most apocalyptic scenarios, or at least we're on track to.

862
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 4: Because most people are good. Yeah, and most people do

863
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 4: not want to see the world burn. And even the

864
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 4: worst of the worst billionaires or stockholders and the oil companies,

865
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 4: even they're trying to rationalize it away. It's like, wow,

866
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 4: you know, people need oil until we don't like better, dah,

867
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 4: it gets it. Maybe it won't be so bad. Like

868
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 4: even they're not sitting there giggling at the thought of

869
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 4: the peasants drowning under you know, the sea's rising. Most people,

870
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 4: even if civilization collapsed tomorrow, we would rebuild it because

871
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 4: that's how we got a civilization in the first place.

872
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 4: Most people don't want to see the world burn.

873
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think, I mean the biggest way just generally,

874
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 2: I think to combat the cynicism or nihilism too, is

875
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 2: is a I think understanding about like, you know, how

876
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 2: things are being framed to us in general. You know,

877
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,399
Speaker 2: I think we, like we were saying earlier, a lot

878
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 2: of these stories are being fed to us and emphasized

879
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 2: to us for their own like profit, you know, motivation,

880
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 2: not necessarily because it's out of a thing of to

881
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 2: say like this is these are the things you need

882
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 2: to know and that are happening. And this is a

883
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: really balanced depiction of it. I think one of the

884
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 2: things that helps me through it is to know it's like, Okay,

885
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 2: I'm living in a media environment where they're only bubbling

886
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 2: up the worst shit to me because that's how that

887
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 2: system grows and profits. And but I also have to

888
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 2: reckon with okay, when I parse through that, what is

889
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 2: actually what is is what is something that's telling me

890
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 2: something that is accurate? And what is this there for

891
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 2: me to get my sort of outrage antenna going and

892
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 2: for me to click on and when you kind of

893
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 2: can give yourself a little bit of room to know

894
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 2: like that while a lot of these things are true

895
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 2: that are going on, we're also living in a space

896
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 2: where the good things are not emphasized enough. And because

897
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 2: of that that fills me with a sense of optimism

898
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 2: because now I have to look for it. But as

899
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 2: I learned to look for it, and the kinds of stories,

900
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 2: of the kinds of places where I can find those

901
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 2: stories are that just helps offset those things, because I

902
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 2: think the worst thing to do is to think, oh

903
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 2: my god, it's all fucked up. There's nothing I can

904
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 2: do to da da da, which is just zoom out

905
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 2: a second and know like we're like in one of

906
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 2: the worst fucking information environments ever ever, of all time.

907
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 2: Like we're there right now, and navigating that takes a

908
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 2: huge toll on us. So I also don't want people

909
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 2: to think that part of maybe if there's negativity you

910
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 2: feel is because you're like you're actually assessing all of

911
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 2: this information and coming to the right conclusion, because we're

912
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 2: also getting a very skewed version of what is actually happening,

913
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 2: especially in this country.

914
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, but not to.

915
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 2: Say again that it's a utopia. That's why I think

916
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 2: it's a bit of a slipper slope because we're I

917
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 2: think so much of what we're doing now is like

918
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 2: saying like, Okay, that's not bad, but there is so

919
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 2: much other structural things that we have to address. So

920
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 2: it's about finding a balance of holding these thoughts to

921
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 2: be true without completely becoming overwhelmed. And part of that

922
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 2: too is being able to like contribute to something. For me,

923
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 2: it's to like the privilege of being able to podcast

924
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,720
Speaker 2: and talk about the things that I hope other people

925
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 2: want to hear about, or you know, giving my time

926
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 2: to like do some do things in my community. Being

927
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 2: able to find those things help offset a lot of

928
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 2: the other shit for sure.

929
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, And in terms of like things that I've found helpful,

930
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: like in you know, trying to stay sane over you know,

931
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:24,240
Speaker 1: the past five years. Like what one of the ideas

932
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: that is big in the psychiatric world or like psychiatry

933
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 1: right now, and like also in the spiritual world is

934
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: this idea of like self compassion. And it really comes

935
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 1: down to understanding that I am viewing the world through

936
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: like a broken instrument, you know, like that that it

937
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 1: that does have like an overactive like burglar alarm, that

938
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: does have like these thought patterns that I've had since

939
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 1: I was a child, and so trying to understand them,

940
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: but also like understanding that I'm not alone in in

941
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: those things, and like if I, if I just would

942
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 1: talk to other people about those things, and I am

943
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: naturally more compassionate to other people than I am to

944
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 1: myself and more understanding of their you know, having these pitfalls.

945
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: But when you talk to another person and like share

946
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: that stuff, you like that there is a common ground

947
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: like those those problems become a little bit smaller. And

948
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: then the other thing is like what when I have

949
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: feelings of despair, it really rests under on the assumption

950
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: that you guys were talking about just now of that

951
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: I completely understand the situation, Like when I don't have

952
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 1: this thought, but like when I actually examine what is

953
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: below the surface of a feeling of despair, it's that

954
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: I understand this situation have exhausted all options for doing

955
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 1: something about it. And that's never that's never the case.

956
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: I am an idiot like that. That is, I always

957
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 1: take a lot of a lot of solace in the

958
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: fact that I'm you know, we all individually, for the

959
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: most part, are not capable of under understanding all of

960
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: these things. We're pretty limited in our understanding, and that

961
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: there are possibilities that my brain's not able to come

962
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: up with, and so all I can do is focus

963
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 1: on the things that I can actually affect, and that's

964
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: really all I can do. And trying to understand and

965
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 1: predict the future, you know, from just a personal standpoint,

966
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: like can be overwhelming, and so trying to steer clear

967
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 1: of that and just focus on the like kind of

968
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 1: the next the next day basically, or.

969
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 2: I think also to the I think for every story

970
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 2: I read about Moms for Liberty, like it's heartening to

971
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 2: hear about all of these other grassroots groups of parents

972
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,959
Speaker 2: that have come out to oppose moms for liberty RTT.

973
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 2: I don't hear enough about and for every time I

974
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 2: think about private equity and what the fuck's doing, I

975
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 2: forget that there are organizations that are trying to do

976
00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 2: something very specifically about this issue. But we always but

977
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 2: we're I think, just societally. We're just so good also

978
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 2: at just identifying the deficiencies that seldom do we really celebrate,

979
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 2: you know, like the ways to improve things. That's why

980
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 2: I think like positive psychology is something that's only kind

981
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 2: of beginnning to pop up in the last century because

982
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, we've mastered the art of telling you what,

983
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 2: how fucked up something is?

984
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 3: Right?

985
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 2: We haven't, but we're now learning how to figure out

986
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 2: how to optimize things as much as possible. And I

987
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 2: think that's the other thing I have to keep in

988
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 2: my mind is that every for every bad thing there is,

989
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:31,839
Speaker 2: there is the other side of the coin that I'm

990
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 2: just not like doing the just a little bit more

991
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 2: research to begin, like to find that positive side of

992
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 2: it too. But again, that isn't to become complacent or

993
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 2: to wish away any problems or to act as if

994
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 2: these problems don't exist, but to remind myself that they're like,

995
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 2: ultimately there are people of good conscience that are also

996
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,760
Speaker 2: doing things to work just as actively as the people

997
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:55,959
Speaker 2: we identify as like threat actors.

998
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, monster liberty and like the people who did the

999
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 1: book bands and the Westbrook Baptist Church are great examples

1000
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: of like what we're talking about, because they're like if

1001
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 1: you view them as like underdog stories, these are like

1002
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: very small groups of people who managed to hijack the

1003
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,720
Speaker 1: media and make everyone think that these problems were huge, insurmountable,

1004
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: like massive groups of people grassroots things, and they're actually

1005
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:24,760
Speaker 1: small people who just organize themselves and made a change,

1006
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: a horrible change, and like they happen to go with

1007
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: the grain of like what is going to get media

1008
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 1: attention in the modern media environment of like outrage, But

1009
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: they are small groups that can be countered, and when

1010
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: people do it, it does seem to actually have an effect.

1011
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: There are things that can be done. But because we

1012
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 1: don't hear about necessarily the stories the people successfully counter

1013
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 1: like pushing back against those small groups, like it does

1014
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: create this optical illusion it's hopeless, and it's not.

1015
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 4: When you talk about like looking for good news. I

1016
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,399
Speaker 4: think when mainstream news and they have like, well good

1017
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 4: news of the day, it's always like, well, these baby

1018
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 4: ducks fell into a storm drain, but we get the

1019
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 4: dumbest shit. The police came and fished them out, and

1020
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 4: it's like no. Basically, any metric of human well being

1021
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 4: worldwide over the last thirty years, from literacy rates, infant

1022
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,879
Speaker 4: mortality rates, cancer survival rates, the percentage of people who

1023
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:31,959
Speaker 4: have homes, who have electricity, who have sanitation, running water,

1024
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 4: all of those are spiked upwards in the last thirty

1025
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 4: years just due to the end of the Cold War

1026
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 4: and just liberalized trade with you know, something like two

1027
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 4: point five billion people have electricity for the first time

1028
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 4: since nineteen ninety. That many about that many people have toilets,

1029
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,399
Speaker 4: which is if you have not lived in a place

1030
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 4: without toilets, you do not understand what a big deal

1031
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 4: that is. But in terms of the spread of disease,

1032
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 4: in terms of you know, basically everywhere the one part

1033
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 4: of the world still lagging as Sub Saharan Africa, but

1034
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 4: across China and India, these places have gotten wildly wealthier

1035
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 4: in the last thirty years. And I'm talking about the

1036
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 4: people at the bottom, people getting the first running water.

1037
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 4: Millions of miles of roads have been paid for the

1038
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 4: first time, which again does not sound like a big

1039
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 4: deal until you realize that people could not go to

1040
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 4: school or to the hospital because it meant going through

1041
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 4: a dirt road that turned into mud during the rainy season,

1042
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 4: and they literally could not travel to a place fifty

1043
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 4: miles away. Now they have a paved road to go there.

1044
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,760
Speaker 4: It's stuff that we take for granted here where we're sitting.

1045
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 4: But for the most part, the average quality of life

1046
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 4: on Earth has gotten amazingly better by every possible metric,

1047
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 4: including things like the number of people who die in

1048
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 4: natural disasters has gone down, not because climate change isn't real,

1049
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 4: but because building standards have gone up because you've made

1050
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 4: you know, you've made buildings that can withstand hurricanes and

1051
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 4: that can handle flooding better. Infrastructure has gotten better, so

1052
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 4: behind the scenes, every single day there's people working to

1053
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 4: improve every little thing you touch. It's just that that

1054
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 4: doesn't make news because it doesn't get clicked through. Those

1055
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 4: headlines exist, so stuff gets written up. It's just if

1056
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 4: you look at the click through between that story and

1057
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 4: the one story that Fox News dug up of a

1058
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 4: trans person committing a crime, where it's like, yes, we've

1059
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 4: got the thing that we can all yell about. We

1060
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 4: have found a trans person committing a crime near a

1061
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 4: bathroom somewhere, one single person that we're going to talk

1062
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 4: about for the next six months in a nation of

1063
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 4: three hundred million people, And that won't get as much

1064
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 4: traffic as everything else on their site combined. That's just

1065
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 4: the way. That's just the way it works. But in

1066
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 4: terms of solutions as an individual, that media environment's not

1067
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:57,399
Speaker 4: going to go away. It's not you have to. It's

1068
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 4: like it's like somebody is saying, I'm not going to

1069
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 4: go on a until they just stop selling the junk food.

1070
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 4: That's just not going to happen. I wish they sold

1071
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 4: healthier food. That you can't put that off. Like at

1072
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,800
Speaker 4: some point there has to be a way to educate

1073
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 4: people or just a culture of I have to recognize

1074
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 4: what media is making me sick, like that this is

1075
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 4: junk food. That a story that doesn't affect me but

1076
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 4: is emotionally charged, that's just pure sugar. That that is

1077
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 4: just junk. It's not making you smarter, it's not making

1078
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,920
Speaker 4: you better, and if it's making you hate everyone outside

1079
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 4: your front door, it's poison like you're poisoning yourself.

1080
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well I think we can leave it there.

1081
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 1: But Jason Parjan, thank you so much for joining us.

1082
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 1: Where can people find you? Follow you? You are a

1083
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: bit of a TikTok influencer these days. Congratulations.

1084
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for that tip about the toilet thing.

1085
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 4: The people, yes, the people who knew me from the

1086
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 4: crank days will think it is very funny that I

1087
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 4: have a quarter of a million followers on TikTok. Now

1088
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 4: I'm a Jason K. Parsan on TikTok, but also that

1089
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 4: same username on Twitter and blue Sky and Threads and

1090
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 4: Instagram and Facebook and YouTube. I have to be on

1091
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 4: all of them because in between me and my readers

1092
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 4: of my books stands a wall of billionaires who own

1093
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 4: who own social media platforms, and they I have to use.

1094
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 4: I don't like any of these people. I'm on Threads

1095
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 4: even though Mark zuckerberg Berg has ruined the lives of

1096
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 4: everyone I know. He is between me and my readers.

1097
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 4: I don't know what else to do. I'm sorry, I'm

1098
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 4: not big enough. I'm not Stephen King I'm not big

1099
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 4: enough to just put a book out there and everybody

1100
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 4: suddenly knows about it. If I don't tell people about

1101
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 4: it on social media, not a single copy will sell.

1102
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll have to have you back on to talk

1103
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 1: about the Zuckerberg Elon musk UFC fight.

1104
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,919
Speaker 2: I think that'll be measuring context, which everyone.

1105
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 4: First, that whole thing, Jesus Christ.

1106
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 2: Which is why it's such a good point with like,

1107
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 2: like I remember with it, like on my phone, I

1108
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 2: had like an update about a new like Alzheimer's drug

1109
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 2: that's been found to be effective like in the early stages,

1110
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 2: and like how does FDA approval?

1111
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 3: And then the next things came up.

1112
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:22,439
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, Elon wants to measure Mark Zuckerberg's dick

1113
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 2: because his app is like less potent right now. And

1114
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 2: I'm like, what the fuck? I almost almost lost sight

1115
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 2: of like these other breakthroughs that are happening to get

1116
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 2: into some old fashioned peepe measuring.

1117
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. Is there a work of media, Jason that you've

1118
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 1: been enjoying? Uh?

1119
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, I as far as like my favorite Twitter post

1120
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 4: I posted on here where somebody took a screenshot and

1121
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 4: Jack maybe already knew this from the Arnold Trustening Classic Commando.

1122
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 4: Can you picture the bad guy that movie in your head?

1123
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1124
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw so I want to get you got a.

1125
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 4: Chain mail tank top on it. Apparently if you watch

1126
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 4: the film and it's it's HD restoration at his chain

1127
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 4: mail tank top is queer has just made out of yarn.

1128
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 4: Looks like his grandmother knitted him a crocheted tank Topal.

1129
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's just a it's like a loose sweater.

1130
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 1: Those loose sweaters that are in loosely knitted sweater look great.

1131
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 2: Chain mail.

1132
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 4: I I don't know. I just thought it was changing.

1133
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 1: In my memory. It is one chain mail and because

1134
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 1: tank top.

1135
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 4: By the way, yeah, the finale is Donald Troy Stener

1136
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 4: like impales him on like a pole and it's like

1137
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 4: it goes through his armor or whatever and like a

1138
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 4: big like a big pace. How strong must he have

1139
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 4: been to do that?

1140
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 2: It looks like a mesh marina like you know, like yeah, yeah,

1141
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 2: knit Jamaican, you know. So I thought maybe he was

1142
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 2: from the Islands.

1143
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: One of the least physically intimidating bad guys of all time.

1144
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 4: But it was a mismatch a lot of those eighties

1145
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 4: action movies, those people were not physical mattress for Arnold.

1146
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 4: When you look back, it's it's like, no, this is

1147
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 4: just a bully beating up on a very chubby, chubby

1148
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 4: pastry man.

1149
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: My favorite stallone versus Lythgal in Cliffhanger, It's.

1150
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 3: Like, Okay, this gets way better in Dexter.

1151
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Miles where can people find you? As

1152
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 1: the work of Is there a work of media you've

1153
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 1: been enjoying.

1154
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 2: At Miles of Gray where they got them? Including threads.

1155
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 2: I got a new podcast coming out actually tomorrow Wednesday,

1156
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 2: July twelfth, the debut of The Good Thief's This new podcast,

1157
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 2: true crime ish podcast talking about this guy Vasili's Paliocostas,

1158
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 2: who is the Greek robin hood who is literally kidnapping

1159
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 2: millionaires and giving some money away to people and as

1160
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 2: a result, is actually one of Interpal's most wanted fugitives.

1161
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 2: So the podcast deals with kind of the search for him,

1162
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 2: if he's alive, where he's at, trying to find more

1163
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 2: about the man behind this myth. It's just a wild story.

1164
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,919
Speaker 2: We talk about the number of times he escaped from

1165
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 2: prison using a helicopter, like multiple times, so it's just

1166
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 2: a wild rise. So please be sure to subscribe and rate.

1167
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 2: And I would really appreciate y'all's support to hear me

1168
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 2: in my more host voice, which is wild because you're

1169
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 2: used to hear me just like rambling here.

1170
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have a British indubitably and let's see uh

1171
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 1: some and also obviously MOUs and Jackot mad Boosties.

1172
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 2: We were live from NBA Con as well as for

1173
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 2: twenty fiance with Sophia Alexandra. Some tweets that I like,

1174
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 2: I have a couple. Where is the first one? It

1175
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 2: is from the Onion. It's that the Onion that company

1176
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:37,920
Speaker 2: hits diversity quota by claiming new Ai is a woman.

1177
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 2: But like that's we're pretty close to that. Uh and

1178
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 2: then best calb at Best b e LLL tweeted talking

1179
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 2: about the Jonah Hill thing. But this is a very

1180
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 2: LA tweet to say, if you take nothing else from

1181
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 2: this reckoning, never date a man who went to crossroads,

1182
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 2: not in the school that Yeah, that's that's for people

1183
01:02:58,240 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 2: from LA for sure. Tweet.

1184
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 1: I've been in join David at Underscore Elvis Presley Underscore

1185
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 1: tweeted if you've successfully completed seven different mission impossible missions,

1186
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,400
Speaker 1: perhaps the guy in charge of labeling these missions is

1187
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 1: being a little dramatic. I think that's I got into

1188
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: a long conversation with my five year old because my

1189
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 1: seven year old can read all the all the billboards now,

1190
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 1: so he's like telling telling his little brother about like

1191
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 1: what what the movies are that are coming out? Like

1192
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 1: what the titles are? And they were like, wait, well,

1193
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 1: like what was the first impossible mission? Okay? What was

1194
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 1: the second impossible Mission? I was like, I don't don't

1195
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 1: have encyclopedic knowledge of the mission impossible, but that there

1196
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 1: is something catchy about that title, I guess, So you

1197
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 1: keep doing it, Tom Cruise. You can find me on

1198
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 1: Twitter at Jack Underscore Obrian. You can find us on

1199
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: Twitter at daily Zeigeist. We're at the Daily Zeigeist on Instagram.

1200
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 1: We have a Facebook fan page on a website, daily

1201
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 1: zeitgeist dot com, where we post our episodes and our

1202
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 1: footnotes like off to the information that we talked about

1203
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 1: in today's episode, as well as a song that we

1204
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 1: think you might enjoy. Myles, what's the song you think

1205
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 1: people might enjoy? Uh?

1206
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 2: We're gonna go out on a track called love Us

1207
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 2: l o Vas by Shaka Shaka Lion and singularis, which

1208
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 2: kind of is appropriate. But anyway, this is Shaka Lions

1209
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 2: just kind of takes like these older dub songs like

1210
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 2: reck reggae dub tracks, mixes them up, gives them a

1211
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 2: slightly modern feel, but it still feels very retro. You

1212
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 2: know how I like to do, so check this one out.

1213
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 2: Love Us by Shaka Lion.

1214
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 1: All right, we will link off to them the footnotes.

1215
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 1: The Daily the ZiT Gey is a production of by

1216
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit

1217
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:39,160
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to

1218
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 1: your favorite shows. That's going to do it for us

1219
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 1: this morning, back this afternoon to tell you what is trending,

1220
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 1: and we will talk to y'all the bye bye