Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know
Speaker 1: from how Stuff works dot com. You've heard the rumors before,
Speaker 1: perhaps and whispers written between the lines of the textbooks. Conspiracies,
Speaker 1: paranormal events, all those things that disappear from the official explanations.
Speaker 1: Tune in and learn more of this stuff they don't
Speaker 1: want you to know in this video podcast from how
Speaker 1: Stuff works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark with me as always as Charles W.
Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant. I love England. Yeah, we're partying outside of
Speaker 1: the Britannia Pub. It's Saturday September alright, Chu, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel a little funny in my modern clothes, but everyone
Speaker 1: seems to accept us. Yeah, they're pretty wasted, Chuck, and
Speaker 1: I think they've noticed yet. Yes, uh we uh, we
Speaker 1: came back here because we're about to stumble upon the
Speaker 1: second victim of Jack the Ripper, and please don't hold
Speaker 1: it against us. Part of our contract for use of
Speaker 1: the way back machine, so we can't actually prevent any
Speaker 1: historical occurrence from happening. Right. Doc Brown says that we
Speaker 1: could not prevent the crime, so we won't even try. Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: uh sorry Annie Chapman, but uh it sounds like here
Speaker 1: we go, Chuck. Did you hear that. Yeah, that's the
Speaker 1: end of Annie Chapman. Let's get over there. You want
Speaker 1: to yes, crime scene? Uh number two? Okay, let's run
Speaker 1: over Chuck. Hang back, man, let the cops do their work.
Speaker 1: But I just want to show you a couple of things. Why,
Speaker 1: by the way, are we at victim number two and
Speaker 1: not victim number one? Well, victim number one was the
Speaker 1: one that kicked all kicked off the canonical murders. But
Speaker 1: Annie Chapman, who whose dead body we're looking at right
Speaker 1: now is um she's she her wounds and what happened
Speaker 1: to her is much more characteristic of Jack the Ripper.
Speaker 1: I just kind of wanted you to get an impression.
Speaker 1: I am impressed. Then, Yeah, some bad things happen to
Speaker 1: this poort today. Okay, hang back, Chuck, let's let the
Speaker 1: let's let the cops do their work. They're they're starting you.
Speaker 1: I just want to show you a couple of whiles
Speaker 1: to spare with me for a second. Yeah, it's pretty bloody, um,
Speaker 1: but there's a there's actually a lot of detail, Um
Speaker 1: that these investigators are eventually going to pick up one
Speaker 1: which will be in an m O. Should you suggest
Speaker 1: something at this point or do you just want to
Speaker 1: hang back? I think we should hang back. But um
Speaker 1: noticed that, um this is any Chapman. She was a
Speaker 1: casual prostitute. Yea. Um, now what does that mean? It
Speaker 1: means that she she made ends meet by engaging in prostitution.
Speaker 1: So I'm sorry, by the way, miss Chapman's a bad
Speaker 1: standing here like this, but yeah, it's true though. UM
Speaker 1: So if you'll notice, Chuck, she's on her back and
Speaker 1: her um her she she's been bled out of her
Speaker 1: throat unfortunately. Yeah. But one thing I want you to notice,
Speaker 1: and this is going to become a uh I guess
Speaker 1: characteristic of the Ripper murder. Sure calling card if you will.
Speaker 1: Sure her legs. Do you see how they're been at
Speaker 1: the knee. They're arched up and then they're laying off
Speaker 1: to the side. Yea, it looks like some sort of
Speaker 1: childbirth thing. Actually have a theory about that, we'll get
Speaker 1: too later. Theory. Okay, yes, all right, Well that's pretty
Speaker 1: much all I wanted you to see. These guys are um,
Speaker 1: we're we're witnessing an exercise and futility. These guys are
Speaker 1: never going to figure out who did this. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it looks like she's been cut up pretty good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you want to get out here? You Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: feeling queasy. All right, Well, let's get out of here.
Speaker 1: They could just be the mead, all right, let's get
Speaker 1: to the way back machine. Chuck. Okay. So Chuck, how
Speaker 1: how do you feel? Uh? Nauseous, a bit hungover? You
Speaker 1: look sober as day. Yeah, yeah, that's frightening. Yeah. So, Chuck,
Speaker 1: that was Annie Chapman. Yeah, it was um. And she
Speaker 1: is the second of what they call the canonical murders
Speaker 1: or the Ripper murders, right, yeah, the White Chapel murders. Right.
Speaker 1: So in the fall of from August thirty one to
Speaker 1: November nine, there were five murders um that are among
Speaker 1: the grizzlier murders ever committed in Great Britain, possibly anywhere.
Speaker 1: And there were other murders, but these are attributed to
Speaker 1: one Jack the Ripper. Yes, that's right, Chuck. Um, these five,
Speaker 1: as we said, the canonical murders, uh, at the time
Speaker 1: and throughout history since then, these five are definitely attributed
Speaker 1: using m O and UM, comparing the bodies, that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff, which we'll get into later. It's possible that
Speaker 1: there are other murders UM. In particular, there was one
Speaker 1: woman who was murdered on August seven, remember the first one, UM,
Speaker 1: Maryanne Paulie Nichols was murdered on August thirty one, So
Speaker 1: it's possibly yet another first victim named Martha Tabrum, who
Speaker 1: was a murdered prostitute. Uh, and he may have um
Speaker 1: started practicing on her. Hers was a little less precise
Speaker 1: than you'll remember Annie Chapman's was, right, Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: so so she she The reason people think that she
Speaker 1: might be an extra ripper murder um is that her
Speaker 1: legs were spread, if you'll notice that, like you said,
Speaker 1: in the childbirth position. Uh, most of the women, if
Speaker 1: not all, of the canonical murders were found like that
Speaker 1: a theory and that we'll get to that though. All right,
Speaker 1: So chuck um London, let's talk about the backdrop. Yeah,
Speaker 1: London's East End at the time very poor, extremely poor,
Speaker 1: and um the pubs were open all night and uh,
Speaker 1: a lot of alcoholism, a lot of disease, a lot
Speaker 1: of opium. As you know, it's not a very pleasant
Speaker 1: place to be. No, it's not um, but there are
Speaker 1: families trying to make it here. Again, it's it's mainly
Speaker 1: just poverty. Yeah, a lot of like you said, casual prostitution.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of that going on, just to
Speaker 1: make ends me absolutely. One of the things that makes
Speaker 1: the Ripper murders stand out so much is that this
Speaker 1: this they weren't the only people that we murdered. There
Speaker 1: was some really brutal crimes committed around that same time. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Not a great place to be, no, but it really
Speaker 1: says something about the Jack the Ripper murders and the
Speaker 1: grip that it had on the people um in London's
Speaker 1: East End Um that they stood out against this backdrop,
Speaker 1: this horrible, bleak, violent backdrop, and in a way actually
Speaker 1: people have later on talked about how it sort of
Speaker 1: exposed this dirty secret of the poverty in London and
Speaker 1: kind of brought it to light more so than anyone
Speaker 1: else could at the time. Yeah, I think the murder
Speaker 1: I think George Bernard Shaw, the playwright, said that Jack
Speaker 1: the Ripper Um succeeded where social reformers had failed by
Speaker 1: shining a spotlight on the living conditions in London's Easton.
Speaker 1: That's one way to do it. Yeah, and he had
Speaker 1: a whole lot of other impacts. He was a lot
Speaker 1: of firsts in a lot of ways. We'll talk about
Speaker 1: that a little bit. Well, let's go over the victims,
Speaker 1: the canonical victims. Chuck, Okay, how much detail you want
Speaker 1: to go into here, because it is grizzly, as much
Speaker 1: as you'd like, but as much as you can stomach. Well,
Speaker 1: the first, like you said, was Maryanne Polly Nichols, and
Speaker 1: she's forty four. She was an alcoholic, like most of
Speaker 1: her cohort victims. Yeah, that was definitely a m The
Speaker 1: the common thread for all the women is that they
Speaker 1: were either drunk at the time or were known to
Speaker 1: love the liquor. Right, And the other through line there
Speaker 1: is that they were all known to be prostitutes, at
Speaker 1: least casually here and there, And a lot of people
Speaker 1: suspect that Jack, you know, he some people thought he
Speaker 1: may have like hated prostitutes, but it was probably just
Speaker 1: an easy mark. A drunk hooker sure would be an
Speaker 1: easy person to kill at five thirty in the morning
Speaker 1: in London. Definitely it's actually a drunk hooker in need
Speaker 1: of money and need exactly. Yeah. So, uh so Polly
Speaker 1: was the first one. She was killed at about or
Speaker 1: she was found at three in the morning. Yeah, severe
Speaker 1: lacerations in her throat and further incisions and uh to
Speaker 1: her neck and violent lacerations to her abdomen, which makes
Speaker 1: her um a lot like Martha Tabroum. She was stabbed
Speaker 1: I think thirty nine times to her abdomen. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: all slightly different, I noticed. But if you look at it,
Speaker 1: especially if you start with Martha tab Roam and go
Speaker 1: all the way up to his last known victim, Mary
Speaker 1: Jane Kelly, it's almost like a pro You can see
Speaker 1: the progression. First it's all just rage, and then it
Speaker 1: becomes much more methodical after he gets more uncomfortable with
Speaker 1: what he's doing. True, So we talked about Annie as well.
Speaker 1: We witnessed Annie. Yeah. Uh. Then I think next was
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Stride, Lizzie Stride. She's forty five and um, she
Speaker 1: was drunk at the time. She also engaged in casual
Speaker 1: prostitution and UM, but she was seeing alive um refusing
Speaker 1: a proposition right, and she also was seen speaking with
Speaker 1: a man and holding a parcel with in like a
Speaker 1: newspaper parcel. Yeah, this man pops up several times actually
Speaker 1: in the canonical murders. Yeah, the shabby genteel that was
Speaker 1: actually yes, um So, she's last seen at twelve thirty
Speaker 1: five am on Sunday, September, and five minutes later she's
Speaker 1: found in UH, a dark alley off Burner Street called
Speaker 1: Dutfields Yard. Her legs are very familiarly by now pulled
Speaker 1: up to her toward her body, knees in the air spread,
Speaker 1: and she has a krichief tied around her neck. Yes,
Speaker 1: but she interestingly was not mutilated, which suggests to historians
Speaker 1: that he may have been interrupted before he could complete
Speaker 1: his whole thing right, And they definitely think he was
Speaker 1: interrupted because about an hour or so later, another ripper
Speaker 1: victim turns up, Katherine ETOs. She was forty six and
Speaker 1: she was a heavy drinker as well, but she was
Speaker 1: intelligent and educated. And actually I just read a thing
Speaker 1: last week where they just discovered, Yeah, the census records,
Speaker 1: I believe, just like a week ago, revealed some of
Speaker 1: these UH people for the first time in their backgrounds
Speaker 1: weren't as grizzly as you might have thought a lot
Speaker 1: of them were smart and had families and right, but like, um,
Speaker 1: uh what was her name, Annie Chapman's daughter dying broke
Speaker 1: up the family they had. Yeah, they had. When you
Speaker 1: talk about him, you think, oh, engaging casual prostitution, and
Speaker 1: we're drunks. They were obviously idiots, you know. But no,
Speaker 1: these these people had actual, real lives, um, and real
Speaker 1: things happened to them that led them to these these
Speaker 1: points where they were murdered by the ripper. Um. And
Speaker 1: also that that's a really good point, Chuck, because it's
Speaker 1: really hard for us to put ourselves into that situation
Speaker 1: of what it was like at the time. Um. But
Speaker 1: these were real people dying in really brutal ways, and
Speaker 1: at the time it was it had a real impact
Speaker 1: on the collective psyche of the people who lived in London.
Speaker 1: You know, we're talking um paranoia, mobs forming. Yeah, let
Speaker 1: me tell you a little story about a guy named Squibby. Okay,
Speaker 1: there's a man named Squibby. He used to have run
Speaker 1: ins with the police. He was tattooed from head to
Speaker 1: toe is how they described it. And Squibby, Um, you
Speaker 1: want to go see him, Chuck, Yeah, let's go see Squibby.
Speaker 1: See him. Yeah, he's a weird looking little guy in it.
Speaker 1: Do not make eye contact with Squibby, Chuck, you will
Speaker 1: punch you in the face just as soon as look
Speaker 1: at you. Okay, Well, Squibby is tattooed from head to toe.
Speaker 1: He's a short little guy, but real stocking and strong,
Speaker 1: kind of like Glenn Danzing Uh and he um he
Speaker 1: has run ins with the police routinely. There are a
Speaker 1: couple of detectives who were down um in uh White
Speaker 1: Chapel around the time of the Ripper murders. By this
Speaker 1: time that the public had been whipped up into a
Speaker 1: frenzy and um, they knew Squibby by site. Obviously he's
Speaker 1: pretty notable guy. Uh. And they had a couple of
Speaker 1: truncheons each, each one at a trunch and they started
Speaker 1: chasing Squibby. Uh. And this crowd apparently who had gathered
Speaker 1: outside of a think Um Catherine at Oos murder Um
Speaker 1: saw the police chasing Squibby and just immediately assumed that
Speaker 1: it was Jack the rippers. So this huge mob formed, right,
Speaker 1: and they're running through the streets after Squibby and and
Speaker 1: the police actually they were chasing him because they figured
Speaker 1: it was the Ripper and they were going to kill him. Finally,
Speaker 1: they get Squibby to the police station, and the mob
Speaker 1: just throngs the station and stays for like several hours
Speaker 1: until they finally realized it wasn't Jack the Ripper. It's
Speaker 1: just some guy that's good stuff. Yeah it was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So Chuck, while we're here, Um, do you want to
Speaker 1: just fast forward a few Yeah, mine, since we have
Speaker 1: the way back, when can you do this one more time?
Speaker 1: I will be there blindfolded and you can just describe
Speaker 1: it to me. All right. Well, Chuck, listen, we're going
Speaker 1: to go into a place called Miller Court. It's an
Speaker 1: apartment house. Uh. It's about um ten forty five in
Speaker 1: the morning, and a rent collector has just found the
Speaker 1: body of Mary Jane Kelly. Yeah, because he ran screaming
Speaker 1: from the apartment like we should be doing right now. Well,
Speaker 1: let's just just steal yourself, Chuck the courage many. Um,
Speaker 1: We're we're gonna wait for the cops to show up,
Speaker 1: because um, well this is hands down the worst, uh
Speaker 1: the worst mutilation of any of his victims. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: she's clearly inside here, the only one that's inside. So
Speaker 1: I guess he had a little more time to get busy.
Speaker 1: Huh right, yeah, uh, And I didn't bring you back
Speaker 1: here just to make you vomit, Chuck, Okay, this is uh,
Speaker 1: this is this crime scene and of itself is very
Speaker 1: important as far as Jack the Ripper goes, and as
Speaker 1: far as the murders go. Right, how so, Well, for one,
Speaker 1: there's evidence that an ax was used on this poor lady, Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is unusual for Jack the Ripper, But he also
Speaker 1: did a lot of He used a lot of surgical
Speaker 1: precision and removed organs and in chunks of flesh and
Speaker 1: all sorts of disgusting things. Is you you okay? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it looks like her face almost has been removed. Here
Speaker 1: all right over here, buddy, the cops are coming. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: well watch watch right? Did someone just take a photograph? Good? I, Chuck,
Speaker 1: That's exactly why I wanted you to see this up.
Speaker 1: That is arguably the first crime scene photograph ever taken
Speaker 1: in the history of human kind. Yeah, and it's pretty
Speaker 1: it turned out pretty grainy. But if you ever see
Speaker 1: it and you're aware of what happened to Mary Jane Kelly,
Speaker 1: it's a pretty disturbing photograph. Like if you're just looking
Speaker 1: at it, it's the you see what the guys working with.
Speaker 1: It's not like the most high tech camera around. Sure,
Speaker 1: there's a sketch artist over there too, there's gotta be
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. But what we're witnessing right here
Speaker 1: is the culmination of, uh, this string of murders. This
Speaker 1: is the last canonical murder as far as anybody knows,
Speaker 1: that is definitively attributed to Jack the Ripper. Well in
Speaker 1: most people's minds. So you want to you want to
Speaker 1: take off pale, you look a little green. Well, I
Speaker 1: just feel like we should say before we go, if
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, I see body parts under her head
Speaker 1: and on the side table, Yes you do. Why did
Speaker 1: he do that? Uh? He was a sick Oh he
Speaker 1: was Jack the Ripper. Yeah there there you go, right there.
Speaker 1: So let's get out of here, buddy. Then what the
Speaker 1: cop just kind of looked over at us. Yeah, seriously,
Speaker 1: let's go, So, Chuck, we now have the canonical victims.
Speaker 1: We've seen two of them. We've talked about the rest
Speaker 1: of them. There were some other ones that's that are possible. Um,
Speaker 1: there's the Whitehall mystery victim, headless, limbless torso that was
Speaker 1: found actually in the basement of Scotland Yard as it
Speaker 1: was under construction, um on October two, which is actually
Speaker 1: within the timeframe of the Remember murders. But um, they
Speaker 1: never said that this one is remember And there was
Speaker 1: a one body found in New York actually that people
Speaker 1: think that Jack the reper might have fled England, which
Speaker 1: is why the murders stopped in London and then uh
Speaker 1: did a little handiwork there in New York City. It's possible,
Speaker 1: and there's actually a suspect who who was there at
Speaker 1: the time of the murder of Carrie Brown a k a.
Speaker 1: Old Shakespeare as she was named because she used to
Speaker 1: love to get drunk and quote Shakespeare sonnets. That's nice
Speaker 1: until she died, right, Um, So there are actually plenty
Speaker 1: of other ones that are were never definitively attributed to them.
Speaker 1: But so let's just stick with the five possibly six
Speaker 1: canonical murders we talked about that, right, So chuck another
Speaker 1: we have the five bodies. Um, we can put together
Speaker 1: what's known as a modus operandi A K A and
Speaker 1: m O and a k A. By the way, it's
Speaker 1: for also known as his m O Josh. He struck
Speaker 1: in the early hours. He struck on weekends, which Chuck wise,
Speaker 1: is significant well because it would lead the detectives to
Speaker 1: believe that he probably had a was a regular guy
Speaker 1: and had a regular workday job, and was probably single
Speaker 1: because because he wouldn't have aroused suspicion from the wife
Speaker 1: by leaving it, you know, all hours of the evening
Speaker 1: and Chuck, that's that. That also kind of sounds like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe his wife is loyal. No. People were neighbors were
Speaker 1: turning in neighbors for suspicious activities, saying my neighbor's jack
Speaker 1: ripper um. People were going absolutely not so they think
Speaker 1: that he was single or else somebody would have come
Speaker 1: for and been like, my husband's been going out and
Speaker 1: coming back with blood on his clothes on the night
Speaker 1: of the Ripper murders. I have a theory that he
Speaker 1: was previously married and his wife couldn't give him a child.
Speaker 1: That's what I think. That's where the childbirth positions came up. Chuck,
Speaker 1: my friends has just turned into a budding ripparologist. I'm
Speaker 1: proud of you. Thank you. Other clues Josh, he h
Speaker 1: strangle all but one of his victims initially that was
Speaker 1: the method of death. UM. And then he would um
Speaker 1: put the throat. He would cut their throat and remember
Speaker 1: he cut from left to right because he was like
Speaker 1: right handed, and he would he would kneel on the
Speaker 1: victim's right side and cut so that the blood spurted
Speaker 1: away from him and largely drained out of the carotid artery. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my ideas, he probably led them out so when he
Speaker 1: was doing all his handiwork, he wouldn't get sprayed and
Speaker 1: there wouldn't just be blood everywhere. So right now, that
Speaker 1: that suggests number one, a working knowledge of anatomy. Um
Speaker 1: number two, somebody who is clever and doesn't want to
Speaker 1: get caught. That's a huge one. UM. Back in White Chapel,
Speaker 1: uh And during this time the police were working on
Speaker 1: the theory that he was clearly a raving madman. And
Speaker 1: it was actually a really bad time to be insane
Speaker 1: in White Chapel because a number of people were just committed.
Speaker 1: They be picked up during police drag nets and taking
Speaker 1: do insane asylums for the rest of their lives. UM.
Speaker 1: The police spent a lot of time in Whitechapel, chasing
Speaker 1: squibby um corralling the insane and interviewing suspects, and modern
Speaker 1: forensic investigators today believe that Scotland Yard or the Metropolitan
Speaker 1: Police probably interviewed the Ripper at some point but let
Speaker 1: them go because they were looking for somebody crazy and
Speaker 1: they don't think that Jack the Ripper was. They called
Speaker 1: them frightening lee normal today. Yeah exactly, so Chuck, what
Speaker 1: are some other clues? Well they into and oh six
Speaker 1: they Scotland Yard actually put together a physical description that's
Speaker 1: two thousand six, just a few years ago. Uh they
Speaker 1: reckoned he was between twenty five and thirty five, medium height,
Speaker 1: stocky and a resident of Whitechapel and like you said,
Speaker 1: very much normal. And uh in the FB I actually
Speaker 1: did a psychological profile. This is the case that just
Speaker 1: won't die. Oh no, I mean ripparologists. It's I literally
Speaker 1: looked the other day and there were four or five
Speaker 1: new possible suspects within the past like year that people
Speaker 1: are still naming. Who will get to in a minute,
Speaker 1: Yes we will. And um, let's talk about the FBI profile.
Speaker 1: Special Agent John Douglas is who did this. He said
Speaker 1: he was opportunistic like you. Yeah, like you said, I
Speaker 1: just say that I'm an opportunistic killer, right, Like, like
Speaker 1: I said, with the drunk prostitutes being a pretty easy mark, right,
Speaker 1: they also think that Well. Douglas also suggests that, um,
Speaker 1: he was a lust killer, which is not to be
Speaker 1: confused with any level of sexuality. Yeah, he did not
Speaker 1: have sex with any of these women. No, but some
Speaker 1: people do think it's possible that Jack the Ripper was
Speaker 1: a cannibal, and possibly that some of the stuff he
Speaker 1: took along with, um, all right, weren't just trophies but
Speaker 1: were food as well. Oh wow, Actually there's a letter
Speaker 1: called from the from Hell letter, the controversial from Hell letter.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there are a lot of letters. Um, there
Speaker 1: were a couple of hundred, from what I understand, sent
Speaker 1: to the cops, sent to the press. All the way
Speaker 1: up until the nineteen sixties, they were still getting letters
Speaker 1: from the right, right. Um. A couple of women were
Speaker 1: actually prosecuted for fraud for writing um, fake Jack the
Speaker 1: Ripper letters. Um, there was there was one letter out
Speaker 1: of these many hundreds that a lot of ripporologists today
Speaker 1: believe actually was written by Jack the Ripper. It's called
Speaker 1: the Dear Boss letter, dear boss, I'll keep on hearing
Speaker 1: the police have caught me, but they won't fix me
Speaker 1: just yet. I have laughed when they look so clever
Speaker 1: and talk about being on the right track. I joke
Speaker 1: about leather apron gave me real fits. I am down
Speaker 1: on horse and all shot. Quit ripping them till I
Speaker 1: do get buckled. Grand work. That last job was I'll
Speaker 1: get the lady no time to score wheel? How can
Speaker 1: they catch me now? I love my work and I
Speaker 1: want to start again. You will seem hear of me
Speaker 1: in my funny little games. I'll save some of the
Speaker 1: proper red stuff and a ginger beer bottle over the
Speaker 1: last job to write with, but it went picklock blue
Speaker 1: and I can't use it. Red ink is fit enough.
Speaker 1: I hope the next job I do, I shall clip
Speaker 1: the ladies ears off and send to the police officers
Speaker 1: just for jolly. Wouldn't you keep this letter back until
Speaker 1: I do a bit more work and give it out straight.
Speaker 1: My knife is so nice and sharp. I want to
Speaker 1: get to work right away if I get a chance.
Speaker 1: Good luck yours, truly, Jack the ripper, don't mind me
Speaker 1: giving the trade name PS wasn't good enough to post
Speaker 1: this before I got all the red ink off my hands.
Speaker 1: Curse it. No luck as yet they say, I'm a
Speaker 1: doctor now and chuck. One of the reasons why this
Speaker 1: letter is so significant. Number one, it's the letter that
Speaker 1: gave um the name Jack the Ripper to the killer.
Speaker 1: And number two, um it made a reference to taking
Speaker 1: a piece of his next victim's ear. Right. Well, that
Speaker 1: letter was received September and on septem Catherinetto's was found.
Speaker 1: Remember she was the second victim in the same night,
Speaker 1: and part of her ear was removed. Now wasn't published
Speaker 1: before that it was, which I mean you could you
Speaker 1: can definitely take that as evidence that what that the
Speaker 1: Ripper read about it and decided to take the ear.
Speaker 1: But because there there's a historian this was actually this
Speaker 1: year he wrote a book is named Dr Andrew Cook,
Speaker 1: and he thinks that there were a bunch of different killers.
Speaker 1: And he actually, uh allegedly says that Frederick Best was
Speaker 1: a reporter for the Star newspaper and he said he
Speaker 1: forged the Dear Boss letter. Really yes, he said he
Speaker 1: forged it, invented the name Jack the Ripper to uh
Speaker 1: sell newspapers because there were a new startup newspaper and
Speaker 1: they were about to close their doors, and their sales
Speaker 1: just like went through the roof after this letter. So
Speaker 1: that's what he alleges there. There are also a lot
Speaker 1: of Ripper oologists believed that none of the letters um
Speaker 1: were written by Jack the Ripper, and that they were
Speaker 1: all pretty much made up by the press or made
Speaker 1: up by crazy people or whatever. But none of that
Speaker 1: the letters were written by Jack the Ripper is another
Speaker 1: way to look at it, right, And he uh unearthed
Speaker 1: interview given by a guy named Percy Clark, and he
Speaker 1: was the assistant police surgeon in Whitechapel, and he said, quote,
Speaker 1: I think perhaps one man was responsible for three of them.
Speaker 1: I would not say he did the others. And then
Speaker 1: another senior investigating officer said the same thing that he
Speaker 1: didn't think that the last victim, that Kelly, was a
Speaker 1: victim of the Ripper, but a copycat killer as well,
Speaker 1: who knows. Yeah, well that's the point though, isn't it.
Speaker 1: I mean, like if if if you're looking for one
Speaker 1: murderer on Dreden hundred and twenty years on, UM, that's
Speaker 1: difficult enough. Imagine looking for three or five killers twenty
Speaker 1: years on One of the other reasons why this is
Speaker 1: this case will likely never be solved is a lot
Speaker 1: of the evidence has just gone Um. They investigated Jack
Speaker 1: the Ripper for three years and then finally closed the
Speaker 1: case as unsolved, and around the time and probably before then, UM,
Speaker 1: cops working the case or cops that had access to
Speaker 1: the evidence room just took evidence as souvenirs from mentos UM.
Speaker 1: I believe a lot of the records, if not all,
Speaker 1: the records were destroyed in a fire, um or destroyed
Speaker 1: because they had reached their shelf life of being kept
Speaker 1: as as records. So I mean, there's there's really not
Speaker 1: a lot of evidence anymore now. And you know, this
Speaker 1: was clearly a different day they they would have caught
Speaker 1: him today, probably pretty easily. Maybe that's what I think
Speaker 1: it's possible. So let's talk about some of the suspects. Well,
Speaker 1: there's more than a hundred that have been named throughout
Speaker 1: the years. I've read a hundred and seventy different people
Speaker 1: named a suspect. Well, and there's it looks like three
Speaker 1: or four new ones a year now still, so right,
Speaker 1: do you want to talk about the most recent one? Man? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was a discovery Channel show. Uh, it was on
Speaker 1: last week where a historian name my Trow used modern
Speaker 1: forensics and he identified one Robert Man and this one. Actually. See,
Speaker 1: that's the thing. Anytime I read like I thought Walter
Speaker 1: Siccret was after hearing that Cornwall lady talk about secret being. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll get to him. But my point is, any time
Speaker 1: I've I've seen a show or special, I come away thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: well that was Jack the Ripper and make a real
Speaker 1: convincing argument. Yeah. Um. I went on casebook dot org um,
Speaker 1: which I wrote how Jack the Ripper works, the article
Speaker 1: that we based this podcast on. Um, And I defer
Speaker 1: humbly to the people who run and go on face
Speaker 1: or casebook dot org um entirely different. If your interest
Speaker 1: has been the least bit piqued by this, I I
Speaker 1: strongly recommend well number one going to housetuf first dot
Speaker 1: com to read the article, but then number two going
Speaker 1: to case books because they have everything right. So um,
Speaker 1: I went onto casebook to see what they thought of Man,
Speaker 1: and sure enough, like the the the I don't think
Speaker 1: the documentary had even premiered yet, and everybody had read
Speaker 1: the Man's book. Um, and we're just tearing him apart,
Speaker 1: which coincidentally is the second book to be titled Case Closed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which I think is pretty funny. Everyone says I found
Speaker 1: it case Closed. And ripparologists don't take very kindly to
Speaker 1: this kind of thing. They these these people are amateur historians,
Speaker 1: amateur criminologists, um, all rolled into one, and they just
Speaker 1: this is just what they do. Uh, and a lot
Speaker 1: once in a while somebody will come along and do
Speaker 1: some research, write a book and slap case Closes on
Speaker 1: the title, and they do not like that. Well, let's
Speaker 1: let's go over man real quick. Uh. He was a
Speaker 1: morgue attendant in Whitechapel. He was a an inmate at
Speaker 1: a prison when he ran the More, or he was
Speaker 1: an attendant at the More. He was he was in
Speaker 1: charge of receiving bodies I think, yea, specifically the bodies
Speaker 1: of the people that they believe he killed three of them.
Speaker 1: And uh, interestingly, well they say damning Lee in this article.
Speaker 1: He he actually undressed Polly Nichol's body with his assistant,
Speaker 1: and he was under strict orders not to do anything
Speaker 1: like that. And a lot of people say that this
Speaker 1: is why, you know, he may have been trying to
Speaker 1: admire his his handywork there, show it off to his buddy.
Speaker 1: And I think somebody made a point on casebook that
Speaker 1: this would probably be the first time that the body
Speaker 1: revisited the killer rather than the other way around. The
Speaker 1: problem with Man that I, as I understand it was
Speaker 1: that he was an inmate in a prison. Pretty much
Speaker 1: as simple as that. Even with a tremendous amount of
Speaker 1: freedom that he might have had with a job, he
Speaker 1: would have still had that job at the isn't could
Speaker 1: he have just come and gone as he pleased, um,
Speaker 1: to go murder women, especially on weekends. So um, I
Speaker 1: think that was the biggest problem that I ran across
Speaker 1: with Man. And also his testimony was discounted at the
Speaker 1: time because his boss basically said this man is prone
Speaker 1: to fits and his he's not to be believed. But
Speaker 1: modern what the forensic psychologist at Liverpool University said in
Speaker 1: terms of psychological profiling, he's one of the most credible
Speaker 1: suspects from recent years and the closest we may ever
Speaker 1: get to a plausible psychological explanation. So who knows? Once again,
Speaker 1: case closed? But is it so now Cornwall? Yeah, let's
Speaker 1: get to Cornwall. She had a particularly um, let's say,
Speaker 1: difficult relationship with reparologists. Yeah, they don't like her, and
Speaker 1: good reason. She plamed Walter Sickert. He was a painter,
Speaker 1: very famous painter at the time, and he was known
Speaker 1: for painting nudes of women. Who were they butchered or
Speaker 1: were they just depends on your interpretation, wide open for interpretation.
Speaker 1: Some people said they were dead women, dead nude women.
Speaker 1: But when you look at like, what's the one painting
Speaker 1: Camden Town Murder. Yeah, it's called the Camden Town Murder
Speaker 1: and it's a naked woman on the bed and there's
Speaker 1: a man sitting on the edge of the bed with
Speaker 1: his hands in his face, and he looks like he's
Speaker 1: overcome with guilt for just murdering the woman. But what
Speaker 1: is the alternate title of that painting? What shall we
Speaker 1: do for rent? Was the was the alternate title, which
Speaker 1: if you look at it through those eyes, it could
Speaker 1: be a depressed man and his wife. You know she
Speaker 1: was naked, sure, but who wasn't. And uh, from what
Speaker 1: I understand about Walter sicker I would not put it
Speaker 1: past him, um to be fully aware that he was
Speaker 1: toying with the public with stuff like this. Then enjoying it,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't necessarily mean he was a murder. Um
Speaker 1: Cornwell was one of the ones who titled her bookcase
Speaker 1: close um. And she apparently strode into the world of
Speaker 1: reparology a fairly arrogantly, one could say, um. And she
Speaker 1: used to I guess on her book to her lecture
Speaker 1: to her. When the book was released, it was heavily
Speaker 1: attended by ripporologists who were looking to rip her a
Speaker 1: new one um, and she did not like them one bit.
Speaker 1: She compared them to trek eas Um, very demeaningly and uh.
Speaker 1: She also it came out that during the course of
Speaker 1: researching the book, she purchased a secret painting for a
Speaker 1: substantial amount of money so she could tear it apart
Speaker 1: to look for clues. She found nothing, and the curator
Speaker 1: of a major secret collection in London called her monstrously
Speaker 1: stupid for doing that. So I was always amused by that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she kind of hung her case on. She collected h
Speaker 1: M d NA mitochondrial DNA, and she was able to
Speaker 1: rule out comparing it to the letters that were sent
Speaker 1: Um that of of the people could not have been responsible,
Speaker 1: but Walter Sickert could have, and the other thing with
Speaker 1: the mitochondrial DNA is. She'll tout that the people are excluded.
Speaker 1: She doesn't really point out that that's still left about
Speaker 1: fifty thousand other people that could have been the murder.
Speaker 1: She made it sound like everyone but Walter Sickert has
Speaker 1: been absolved. Well. On the other side, Walter Sickert was
Speaker 1: very well known as a prolific writer of letters to
Speaker 1: the editor, right, um, and so he very well may
Speaker 1: have written a ripper letter. But that's a huge leap
Speaker 1: in logic to say that he wrote a ripper letter.
Speaker 1: So he he was so chuck. My money's not on
Speaker 1: Walter Sickert. Um. And he's not the only famous person
Speaker 1: to be named as a suspect. Lewis Carroll, Yeah, was
Speaker 1: suggested as a suspect. I don't think by any any
Speaker 1: of the police. No, they pulled they supposedly pulled anagrams
Speaker 1: from some of his books that everyone else is like,
Speaker 1: come on, um. Prince Albert Victor was thought to be
Speaker 1: maybe some diabolical madman and the the went mad with syphilis.
Speaker 1: Yes that's what they say, yeah, um. And the entire
Speaker 1: royal family has been implicated in another theory, The Freemasons
Speaker 1: the Freemasons. Can't forget them. They're implicated in everything, aren't they. Um.
Speaker 1: But then there's some lesser known people who usually actually
Speaker 1: make better suspects than you know, the entire royal family, Right, Chuck,
Speaker 1: I would say so, and they actually would. They end
Speaker 1: up naming officially three suspects in the actual case before
Speaker 1: they closed it. Right. Police commissioners Sir Neville McNaughton UM
Speaker 1: wrote in eight eighty nine who he thought the three
Speaker 1: best suspects were in In his final report, he wrote, UM,
Speaker 1: he named Michael Ostrog, a Russian physician and convicted thief,
Speaker 1: Montague John Drewett, who was a physician um and who
Speaker 1: was found drowned in the Thames uh the December after
Speaker 1: the murders, And Aaron Kasminski, who was an insane man
Speaker 1: um and these were mcdalton's three top picks. UM. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: probably not. Michael Ostrog was found in two thousand two
Speaker 1: in a book by Philip Sugden UH that he was
Speaker 1: actually in police custody during the time of the murders
Speaker 1: in Paris. Um. Montague John drew It possibly UM if
Speaker 1: he died in December, that would definitely explain why the
Speaker 1: murders ended suddenly. And then Aaron Kasminski, Um, he was
Speaker 1: he was in He was crazy, but he wasn't violent
Speaker 1: at all. Um. And most people don't think it was him.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say most people. There are some that probably
Speaker 1: think it's him, but I don't personally. My money instead
Speaker 1: is on Severing Klazowski. George Chapman, Alright, why do you
Speaker 1: think he did it? Well, let me retract that he's
Speaker 1: I don't know enough about it to say that he is.
Speaker 1: He's my leads huspect from the people I know of
Speaker 1: he's he's my lead suspect. He was a man who
Speaker 1: had a nasty little habit of poisoning his wives, and
Speaker 1: he did it to three of them after the Ripper murders. Uh.
Speaker 1: He was finally caught on the third one because somebody
Speaker 1: finally figured out, Hey, this guy's wives are in no
Speaker 1: way related to one another, and yet they keep dying
Speaker 1: from this mysterious illness. And they um, they found that
Speaker 1: he had poisoned one, exhumed the other two, and he
Speaker 1: was convicted of all three. Uh. And this was in
Speaker 1: the United States, but he'd been living in Whitechapel at
Speaker 1: the time. During the murders. Um he had a he
Speaker 1: was trained as a physician, UM and he moved to
Speaker 1: America and lived in New Jersey at the time that
Speaker 1: that one New York possible Ripper murder took place. So
Speaker 1: the the big question is, if Klausowski was the guy,
Speaker 1: why would he change his m o so drafted drastically
Speaker 1: from butchering women to reasoning lives. That's I don't think
Speaker 1: anyone's ever switched gears like that. But out of all
Speaker 1: of them, out of all the Ripper suspects, he's the
Speaker 1: only one that has been convicted of three murders. He's
Speaker 1: the only known serial murderer in the bunch, which is
Speaker 1: why my my money's on him. That's a good one.
Speaker 1: Who's your favorite? I like them, Robert Man, That makes sense.
Speaker 1: That's that's who my money's on. That's I think there's
Speaker 1: you said. A hundred hundred and seventies suspects have been named,
Speaker 1: and again, if you're interested in this, go onto casebook.
Speaker 1: They have detailed descriptions of every single suspect. But let's
Speaker 1: talk about the legacy left by the Ripper Chuck, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it was it was probably the first crime
Speaker 1: scene photo ever taken. Yeah, it was the first big, um,
Speaker 1: I think, international murder case that was known throughout the world.
Speaker 1: It was the first case of symbol the now well
Speaker 1: known symbiotic relationship between a serial murderer and the press,
Speaker 1: where the press gives the serial murder um, you know,
Speaker 1: infamy that that he or she requires, uh, and then
Speaker 1: the serial killer gives the press, you know, fodder for articles.
Speaker 1: And I think further uh, I think the Zodiac killer
Speaker 1: sent letters to the editor and that became kind of
Speaker 1: a thing for serial killers to do later on. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: and this is one of the first times that comparing
Speaker 1: the bodies to establish an m O it has been
Speaker 1: used basically. Um. You can argue that the the um
Speaker 1: all modern forensic techniques started kind of piecemeal, but they
Speaker 1: all started with the Ripper murders. I would agree with that, right.
Speaker 1: And like we said before them Ripper murders shown a
Speaker 1: light on the living conditions in the East End of London,
Speaker 1: uh and led to real change. I think sanitation was
Speaker 1: introduced largely. Um. There is a lot more interest in
Speaker 1: the plight of the poverty stricken than there had in before.
Speaker 1: And Chuck also, there's clearly a pretty big legacy left
Speaker 1: behind in the form of ripparologists, um countless TV shows, movies,
Speaker 1: UM from Hell from Hell. That was. That was unsettling.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a video game coming I heard and
Speaker 1: Jack the Ripper is going to be a superhero that
Speaker 1: fights demons. Yeah, he's a he's actually an anti hero,
Speaker 1: but he's misunderstood the killings were it was it demons
Speaker 1: or vampires, both all manner of EMPs and lesser demons.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be awesome. Yeah, and there's a conference every year, right,
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's every year, but um, this year.
Speaker 1: Actually it was just last week in London, first time
Speaker 1: they ever had it in London, and they rented a
Speaker 1: pub for the entire weekend. So that's that. Sounds like
Speaker 1: an awesome conference so far. Yeah, they have speakers and
Speaker 1: from seven to eleven every night is entertainment and disco
Speaker 1: disco Jack the Ripper Conference Disco. So that sounds like
Speaker 1: a nice way to end this, an upbeat way to
Speaker 1: end this, which, if you consider it, is highly ironic
Speaker 1: because this definitely are grizzliest podcast yet. Yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: gonna get any more grizzly. Yeah, so obviously We did
Speaker 1: this one for Halloween, so I have a safe and
Speaker 1: happy Halloween everybody. And if you have any ideas about
Speaker 1: who Jack the Ripper might be, and if it's not
Speaker 1: your neighbor, that would be fantastic. You can put it
Speaker 1: in an email send it to stuff podcast at how
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands
Speaker 1: of other topics, does it how stuff works dot com.
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