Speaker 1: A media.
Speaker 2: Oh here, ye, hear ye. The Court of Bastards is
Speaker 2: now in session, the Honorable Judge Robert Evans presiding. And
Speaker 2: that's not a bit. I'm making an announcement here. Well,
Speaker 2: I don't think I told you this yet. I have
Speaker 2: been sworn in as a judge. I am legally a
Speaker 2: United States municipal judge for the state of New Mexico.
Speaker 3: This is not this is it's not a bit, and
Speaker 3: he's brought it up.
Speaker 1: I think he's told me this same same piece of
Speaker 1: information five pounds.
Speaker 2: I have the paperwork. I am now legally the Honorable
Speaker 2: Robert Evans. For the rest of my life. I can
Speaker 2: marry people, not just officiate like some of you folks.
Speaker 2: I can witness documents, I could hear cases. I don't
Speaker 2: think anyone's gonna give me any but I am a
Speaker 2: judge now in New Mexico. And uh, you know.
Speaker 3: How how does one become a judge in New Mexico?
Speaker 2: You get sworn in by another judge. It works. Actually,
Speaker 2: I'm just like.
Speaker 3: How did you do you? Just you had to like
Speaker 3: call them and was there an online app.
Speaker 2: Let's let's call them a fan. I mean, definitely they
Speaker 2: are a fan, a wonderful person whose name and.
Speaker 3: They were like, hey, bro, did you know that it's
Speaker 3: no work to become a judge?
Speaker 2: You know it's incredibly easy. Well, it's apparently I didn't
Speaker 2: know this either. Becoming a judge works exactly like being
Speaker 2: a vampire and interview with a vampire.
Speaker 3: Come in.
Speaker 2: If somebody invite you more than you get, you can
Speaker 2: get made a judge by like a bigger judge. But
Speaker 2: you cannot necessarily make other people judges.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: You have to see you have to drink a certain
Speaker 2: amount of blood.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you got to keep the pyramid at a
Speaker 3: you know, a certain angle or else it gets too wide.
Speaker 2: Again, if if I'm remembering interview with a vampire, right,
Speaker 2: I am now going to live in France and then
Speaker 2: burn down a theater.
Speaker 3: Take on an eight year old child as you.
Speaker 2: Take on an eight year old Ye?
Speaker 3: Do the whole reare with that was? I'm very confused
Speaker 3: still about what she was in that movie.
Speaker 2: You gotta try the new TV show will It's It's wonderful?
Speaker 3: Oh is it? I? I kind of I saw that
Speaker 3: it existed, but I kind of put it in the
Speaker 3: same like, you know, when they made the Archie comic
Speaker 3: into it. Yeah, Drama Dale. I kind of so, I
Speaker 3: kind of assumed it was something like that where they
Speaker 3: just like or like The Fresh Prince, they turned that
Speaker 3: into a fucking drama or whatever. It was like something
Speaker 3: like that where it was just like real teeny like
Speaker 3: as a Buffy the Vampire type show.
Speaker 2: No, I can confidently say as a United States judge
Speaker 2: that show is good. I do that power. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: go do a Blood Meridian after this. Call me the
Speaker 2: Judge used my own urine to make gunpowder. It's gonna
Speaker 2: be incredible, folks, amazing. But my first act as judge
Speaker 2: is to sit down with my buddy, the Grammy Award
Speaker 2: winning Greasy Will and Judge P Diddy, and this will
Speaker 2: be legally binding whatever I say, the courts have to do.
Speaker 2: If I understand being a judge right, and I don't
Speaker 2: think I do.
Speaker 3: Can I be the middle of the defense and the prosecutor,
Speaker 3: Like I don't know, I want to be both? Can
Speaker 3: I be both?
Speaker 2: Yeah? You could absolutely be both?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever's fun A kind of a moment.
Speaker 3: A guest of behind the Bastard's like primary responsibility is
Speaker 3: to be a bit of both of these things like
Speaker 3: cheering you on for your incredible journalistic integrity and also
Speaker 3: correcting your pronunciation.
Speaker 2: Words Jeordia ash I honestly forget what we were saying.
Speaker 3: See, I have no idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not my job as a judge to know how
Speaker 2: to pronounce R and B Duo Jordia Cage, Jordia Jeordia Jordan.
Speaker 2: You know what, I sentence you to come up with
Speaker 2: a different fucking name. I'm glad this intro was fun
Speaker 2: because what we're going to talk about after this cold
Speaker 2: open not fun at all. We're back and things are
Speaker 2: about to get horrible. So nineteen ninety one, the same
Speaker 2: year that he got all of those fucking people killed,
Speaker 2: is the year in which Joy j o I Dickerson Neil,
Speaker 2: one of those hyphenated last names, claims that Sean drugged
Speaker 2: and raped her. Yes, yeah, I know, sorry, there was
Speaker 2: there was no way to learn out swing. That's why
Speaker 2: I opened something fun. Yeah, because it's gonna get It's
Speaker 2: just it's I mean, this is gonna be horrible, folks.
Speaker 3: Sorry, what year was this?
Speaker 2: Ninety one, same year he got nine people killed in
Speaker 2: a crush, So this is the earliest. I don't know
Speaker 2: that This is the first person that John drugs and
Speaker 2: assaults or assault period. But this is the earliest allegation
Speaker 2: so far against Diddy that may have changed by the
Speaker 2: time these episodes dropped. It is coming out rapidly every day.
Speaker 2: It is one of the most serious. She was a
Speaker 2: college student at the time. Sean was an up and
Speaker 2: coming music producer who hosted legendary parties. He put her
Speaker 2: in one of his music videos and then while they
Speaker 2: were doing that, he asked her out on a date,
Speaker 2: which is you know, classic story.
Speaker 3: Classic story. Yeah, this is why the yeah prototype exists.
Speaker 3: This is why people know that this is a thing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's just the classic producers story.
Speaker 2: And it's it's fucked up because like obviously this is
Speaker 2: the way a lot of people get assaulted. It is
Speaker 2: also legitimately how a lot of people's careers begin. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, like and honestly, sometimes both happen, right, Like
Speaker 2: that's yes, which is why it's going to keep happening.
Speaker 3: The story is exactly that. It's literally, let me assault
Speaker 3: you and you get a career.
Speaker 2: You can get in this fucking you know, I.
Speaker 3: Mean, it's you know, and as this progresses on, we're
Speaker 3: going to see a lot of that where it's like
Speaker 3: people who go along with it make it, and when
Speaker 3: they stop going along with it, they disappear.
Speaker 2: Right right, yes, yes, you know. So after dinner, Sean
Speaker 2: pushes Joy to stay out with him. She wants to
Speaker 2: go home, and he's like, no, no, no, let's go, and
Speaker 2: he takes you to a recording studio. She has a
Speaker 2: drink at some point, I think, on the drive over,
Speaker 2: and she like can't get out of the car because
Speaker 2: she's so fucked up by the time they get there,
Speaker 2: not from the drink, but from the fact that the
Speaker 2: drink has been drug. Obviously drug, I'm guessing just from
Speaker 2: her description, sounds like GHB, but could have been a
Speaker 2: couple of things.
Speaker 3: Pretty fast acting. Yes, yes, in a car drive across
Speaker 3: the Yeah, that's that's not.
Speaker 2: A long Nope, nope, nope. Combs takes her to a
Speaker 2: separate location and he sexually assaults her. He films the rape.
Speaker 3: Naturally, because why not keep evidence.
Speaker 2: Why not keep that? Well, he films that he uses
Speaker 2: like revenge porn against her, right.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so this is like this is where he
Speaker 3: starts to get into this.
Speaker 2: The black man is doing this from the jump, Yeah, yeah, Epstein,
Speaker 2: if you will, Yeah, exactly, And Dickerson actually finds out
Speaker 2: that he's videotaped it because a male friend of hers
Speaker 2: comes to her and is like, hey, man, I was
Speaker 2: just hanging out with Sean and he showed us a
Speaker 2: video of himself having sex with you and like you
Speaker 2: don't really look like you're conscious, right, So that's how
Speaker 2: she finds out about it. Like he shares he shows
Speaker 2: this to a number of people.
Speaker 3: That is just fucking awful.
Speaker 2: It's hideous and it's one of those things.
Speaker 3: Wait, so wait, so this is ninety one, right, ninety one?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what what do you have?
Speaker 1: It?
Speaker 3: Was it a camp quarder?
Speaker 2: He had like a camp It must have been like
Speaker 2: a camp quorder Yeah, like that, it was.
Speaker 3: Not like it was it hidden situation or because there's
Speaker 3: like there's like an element of like decisions that he
Speaker 3: had to make, like he had to set this up
Speaker 3: and plan this, like this wasn't you know, Yeah.
Speaker 2: He had to set this up. He played the plan this.
Speaker 2: He spent a lot of money, like it's not cheap
Speaker 2: dead right Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, camera in ninety one was very expective. You weren't
Speaker 3: just buying one cheese.
Speaker 2: That's probably a big part of an addition just wanted
Speaker 2: to do in the first place. Why she's drugged, right,
Speaker 2: is so that he can set up and do all this, you.
Speaker 3: Know, right. Yeah, it's not an easy process to use.
Speaker 3: It's not like now you just push a button or
Speaker 3: whatever on your phone. You gotta set this, get lighting
Speaker 3: and shit like. It's like camp quorders were not just like.
Speaker 2: Just laying around. Yeah, and it's it's also I on
Speaker 2: a note, now, if you're very familiar with this case,
Speaker 2: you're going to know, Oh, he's not bringing up everyone.
Speaker 2: I can't. There's not enough time to talk about every
Speaker 2: single person who has made allegations. I'm going to go
Speaker 2: through enough that you understand what he does.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. At this point, it's literally like dozens and
Speaker 3: dozens of people, Like, there's so many people that they've
Speaker 3: started filing class actions and against.
Speaker 2: It's the kind of thing where I think, and we'll
Speaker 2: never know how many people. It wasn't total, but I
Speaker 2: would be shocked if the total number of victims one
Speaker 2: way or the other aren't in the hundreds. You know,
Speaker 2: there's different levels of victim. There's some people that.
Speaker 3: It's astonishing, there's Genghis Khan levels of things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some people who are like he coerced me,
Speaker 2: but like I did say Yes, there's some people who
Speaker 2: were like I got drugged but he didn't rate me,
Speaker 2: or like I got out. So there's like degrees of
Speaker 2: difference from how this happens because there's so many people
Speaker 2: he's doing this too.
Speaker 3: And there's combinations of every single one of those things
Speaker 3: too as well. It's like it is layers upon layers.
Speaker 3: You know, you're talking this is nineteen ninety one, we're
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four. Yeah, you know, this is a
Speaker 3: thirty year legacy of doing this. Yes, and this is
Speaker 3: astonished and to only have allegations really because like that's
Speaker 3: the one thing is like outside of like the industry,
Speaker 3: his image was pretty clean, yeah, you know, like he
Speaker 3: had a few little things.
Speaker 2: That was like largely the Tupac stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah did he kill Tupac or or did he was
Speaker 3: involved in like but it wasn't really like the sexual
Speaker 3: assault stuff that was like big. It was all like
Speaker 3: conspiracy mogul like you know, mob type stuff, you know,
Speaker 3: like before this point in history.
Speaker 2: Right right, absolutely, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Mean we knew about or the other stuff existed and
Speaker 3: was out there, but it wasn't like that was what
Speaker 3: he was known for. When he came to that, Yeah, people.
Speaker 2: Would say, oh, that guy's definitely a piece of shit, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was almost like he committed a bigger crime. Yeah,
Speaker 3: in not being involved in Biggie and Tupacs.
Speaker 2: It's like, look, if you're an overshadowed, if you've got
Speaker 2: a crime you want to commit, you know, like maybe
Speaker 2: maybe you're looking to do a big crypto scamera or something,
Speaker 2: just kill Tupac first and you'll get away with it
Speaker 2: for at least thirty years. Yeah, that's that's the Diddy story.
Speaker 1: He might be a judge, but don't take legal advice
Speaker 1: from Robert.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that should take advice. Do not kill Tupac. If
Speaker 3: you find Tupac, let us say alone, say he he's
Speaker 3: really a lie.
Speaker 2: He deserves to hide. So in the wake of this
Speaker 2: horrible sex crime, Sean got his first big opportunity. In
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two, he scouted out and signed a rap
Speaker 2: artist named Christopher Wallace, better known to posterity as Biggie
Speaker 2: Small's org Notorious Big and this is I'm just I'm
Speaker 2: not super you know, knowledgeable, about pop culture. I love Biggie.
Speaker 2: Biggie was one of the greatest lyricists of his generation. Honestly,
Speaker 2: part of why I love him. I think he's like
Speaker 2: written better about depression and hating yourself than most people
Speaker 2: in music of her heck, like, I mean, he was great.
Speaker 3: He was Biggie.
Speaker 2: He was He was a huge man.
Speaker 3: He was fat as hell, and he knew he was
Speaker 3: fat as hell, and he said it all the time.
Speaker 3: And then at one point in his career he acknowledged
Speaker 3: not only am I fat as hell, but I'm sexy
Speaker 3: as hell too because I'm rich as hell. So, like,
Speaker 3: I don't give a shit about what. Yeah, he was
Speaker 3: so and he really leaned into it.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: It's like you're talking about a dude whose biggest rival
Speaker 3: at the time was Tupac, who was an athletic. Yeah yeah, no,
Speaker 3: Tubac was ripped, you know, like and then Biggie's like, yeah, whatever, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm four hundred pounds. I don't give a shit, and
Speaker 3: Biggie is. But he was notoriously notorious LG. Yeah yeah, yeah, legendary.
Speaker 2: And he is. This is one of those guys we
Speaker 2: talked about a lot of guys and especially gangster rapidly
Speaker 2: massage their reputation. Biggie didn't have to do that. He
Speaker 2: comes from a tough background. His dad abandons the family
Speaker 2: when he's three, which is interesting that both he and
Speaker 2: did he lose their dad's at age three. He might
Speaker 2: have been part of why they like got along bonded.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He grew up near Bedsty in Brooklyn, which at that
Speaker 2: point in time was a very different neighborhood than it
Speaker 2: is today.
Speaker 3: Sure not filled with hipsters. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. He was raised at Jehovah's Witness and became a
Speaker 2: drug dealer selling weed at age twelve and moved up
Speaker 2: to Crack once that epidemic kicked off. His mother WASH's Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's raised a Jehovah's Witness. His mom is very strict.
Speaker 2: He has to hide what he's doing from her.
Speaker 3: I don't know that I've ever heard that before. That
Speaker 3: is really interesting because I mean, like I knew that,
Speaker 3: like he was very much. There's a lot of stories.
Speaker 3: Even his mom told a lot of stories in the
Speaker 3: biographies they'd done with of him and everything, of like
Speaker 3: him always having to like hide stuff because she was watching,
Speaker 3: she was on top of what he was doing. But
Speaker 3: I never heard that.
Speaker 2: It also has a big influence on the kind of
Speaker 2: music he makes because his mom is very strict and
Speaker 2: the morals that he's raised with conflicts in his new career,
Speaker 2: so he always does. He has this feeling that is
Speaker 2: I think not super common for a lot of people
Speaker 2: in the same industry, that what he's doing is bad right,
Speaker 2: and that influences the kind of music he makes. His
Speaker 2: debut album is called Ready to Die, which includes the
Speaker 2: song the great song Suicidal Thoughts, which opens with the
Speaker 2: verse when I die, fuck it, I want to go
Speaker 2: to hell because I'm a piece of shit. It ain't
Speaker 2: hard to fucking tell, or getting more direct towards his
Speaker 2: feelings about his mom. All my life, I've been considered
Speaker 2: as the worst, lying to my mother, even stealing out
Speaker 2: her purse. Crime after crime, from drugs to extortion. I
Speaker 2: know my mom wished she got off fucking abortion. Like, yes,
Speaker 2: I love Biggie, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Biggie definitely was very pressing. He was very like knowledgeable
Speaker 3: of himself and where he was at, you know, like
Speaker 3: he anytime. It was Actually one of the things that
Speaker 3: was so fascinating about Biggie's work is that he would
Speaker 3: often talk about drug dealing as like as the darkness
Speaker 3: that it was like a lot of times like people
Speaker 3: were drug dealing, like especially now, it's like this glamour position, right,
Speaker 3: and for him it was not. It was so much
Speaker 3: more of like, this is what I had to do.
Speaker 2: I hate myself because of what I had to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I don't like that I had to do
Speaker 3: these things. I don't like myself because I had to
Speaker 3: do these things. And this is what it's like to
Speaker 3: grow up in these situations and have And it was
Speaker 3: like it took so much of the glamour out of it.
Speaker 3: It was dark. It was twisted, and it was dark,
Speaker 3: and it was like, damn, he's really speaking about the
Speaker 3: truth of all this. Yeah, you know, it was not
Speaker 3: like look at me, I'm doing this because I'm fucking
Speaker 3: gonna wear gold necklaces and shit. Like. He was pretty
Speaker 3: humble even with like the braggadocious part of it. It
Speaker 3: was still kind of dark. Yeah, in its humilities.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I guess what we're getting at is we're both
Speaker 2: fans of Bickie. Obviously, Biggie's going to be one of
Speaker 2: the most successful rappers of all time, but initially when
Speaker 2: he's getting started. His work is seen as too explicit
Speaker 2: and too based in his extensive life of crimes from
Speaker 2: MCA Records. Who is Uptown's distributor, and that's where Sean works,
Speaker 2: and so Shawn's boss, Andre Harrol lets him go basically
Speaker 2: fires him, although he will claim. Andre says I didn't
Speaker 2: fire him because he was bad. Basically, I said, like, look, man,
Speaker 2: you're right, this guy's going to be a hit. The
Speaker 2: label that you get for it here fucking bounce. It's
Speaker 2: time for you to succeed on your own, right, Andre
Speaker 2: later tells Wall Street Journal. I didn't want to sit
Speaker 2: there and be the one confining Puff because the corporation
Speaker 2: was telling me to do that. I'm not built that way.
Speaker 2: I told Puff he needs to go and create his
Speaker 2: own opportunity. You're red hot right now. I'm really letting
Speaker 2: you go so you can get rich. And that's exactly
Speaker 2: what fucking happened.
Speaker 3: So I mean, yeah, later and it's later, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: it really did. I mean it was the perfect time
Speaker 3: for that. You know, like, for the most part, up
Speaker 3: until Biggie and Pac, you know, a lot of hip
Speaker 3: hop was more like happy type shit. It was still
Speaker 3: like sometimes it was like had the darkness n w
Speaker 3: A existed obviously, but like Biggie and Pac were like
Speaker 3: really some of the originators of that like dark upbringing
Speaker 3: culture of rap where it's like, look, we fucking we
Speaker 3: hustle or survive and we're doing what we got to
Speaker 3: do and like talking the real truth about what it
Speaker 3: was like to be a black man in America at
Speaker 3: the time. Yeah, So it was like there was something
Speaker 3: really unique about that moment because it was starting to
Speaker 3: you know, we're getting the crack epidemic, We're getting you know,
Speaker 3: like crime Bill, that old Biden sleepy sleep Yeah, he
Speaker 3: was awake, right, So it's like, yeah, exactly, like maybe
Speaker 3: he should easily he commits some of the biggest crimes
Speaker 3: against black America that you can imagine.
Speaker 2: I have always been firmly of the stance that the
Speaker 2: water fountains in the Capitol Building need to have XANAX
Speaker 2: in them. We could solve a lot of problems, a lot.
Speaker 3: Of problems that bring this down a little bit.
Speaker 2: You know, put x X in the water everywhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah, actually, yeah, great points.
Speaker 2: Xan X lithium.
Speaker 3: Let's just this is like when you're in high school
Speaker 3: and you think you can solve all the world's problems
Speaker 3: the first time you take mushrooms and you're like, we
Speaker 3: need to give everyone mushroom. We would, but actually maybe
Speaker 3: that might.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe we really do need to put lithium in
Speaker 2: the water or something. So Comb started a label of
Speaker 2: his own Bad Boy Records, and it bad bad Boy,
Speaker 2: right clink clink clink. And this is when you're about
Speaker 2: the East Coast, West Coast rap fude, it's bad Boy
Speaker 2: and death Row over on, you know, the other side
Speaker 2: of the country.
Speaker 3: Sug Night and Death Row sug Knight, And yeah, are
Speaker 3: we gonna shug We're gonna talk a little bit of
Speaker 3: sug Knight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because basically, Biggie becomes a massive star pretty much overnight,
Speaker 2: and that makes bad Boy a name, and that causes
Speaker 2: immediate friction with the West Coast premiere gangster wrap enclave,
Speaker 2: sug Night's Death Row Records. If you want to know
Speaker 2: the kind of man we're talking about, Biggie being a
Speaker 2: fucking real gangster. Sug is a real gangster.
Speaker 3: Sugar, the realist of gangsters.
Speaker 2: Later in life will be shot at two consecutive vm
Speaker 2: A after parties.
Speaker 3: Yes, oh my god, one of my favorite Sugar Night
Speaker 3: things is the is the Vanilla Ice story?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, held him off the roof of.
Speaker 3: A building by his ankles, by his ankles. He held
Speaker 3: it because just over some dispute, you know. It's like
Speaker 3: it was like Sug was the real suddn't.
Speaker 2: Want to give him the rights or sell the rights
Speaker 2: to an ice ice baby or something.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, he held him off the roof of a
Speaker 3: bill It's like, this is the type of dude he was.
Speaker 3: Is a little side tangent. I don't want to go
Speaker 3: too far into it, but recently there was this TikTok
Speaker 3: thing that happened where a guy found a bunch of
Speaker 3: old death Row tapes two inch tape in a storage lock, right,
Speaker 3: And because I'm in the TikTok zone, I saw this
Speaker 3: happen and I was like, oh, this is good. Hey,
Speaker 3: if you need any help with this, hit me up.
Speaker 3: And it turned out to be a bunch of like
Speaker 3: mc hammer death Row era stuff, right, And it was
Speaker 3: like almost immediately once that started coming out, all all
Speaker 3: the comments were like, hey man, just be careful. And
Speaker 3: it ended up going that I found the guy, the
Speaker 3: engineer that was responsible for that stuff, and I was like, hey, man,
Speaker 3: I was like, this guy found all this stuff. Your
Speaker 3: name's on the tapes, and he was like, I don't
Speaker 3: really want to be involved in that because of that
Speaker 3: era of my life was one of the most I've
Speaker 3: ever felt like in danger. Yeah, He's like that was
Speaker 3: the most I was ever worried about, like making it
Speaker 3: through the day was when I worked as an engineer
Speaker 3: for death Row.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of things you can say about Suge
Speaker 2: Knight that are, you know, bastardy, but also sh Night's
Speaker 2: not really even when he's behind bars, not someone I
Speaker 2: want to talk too much ship on.
Speaker 3: I'm close enough, man, I don't know's We'll say he's
Speaker 3: he's a big guys formidable. He's a formidable person. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he's a large person and I would not know want
Speaker 3: to ever have my tiny skull crush.
Speaker 2: We have lots of respect for you, Shood.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you think don't dangles, don't.
Speaker 3: Run me over at a burger stand? You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So this is primarily a story of the evil
Speaker 2: that Sean is going to do later in his life
Speaker 2: and his involvement in the East Coast West Coast rap
Speaker 2: rivalry is like we know, but also it's murky right,
Speaker 2: like there's a green murk of to like exactly what
Speaker 2: he was doing.
Speaker 3: It's unreliable narrative, as you would write a lot of
Speaker 3: unreliable narrative.
Speaker 2: Most of the narrators are like talking through wire taps
Speaker 2: that the police have, or like interviews the police are conducting.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and literally anything you get in all of
Speaker 3: this stuff is it's unreliable. And because there's a level
Speaker 3: of ego that's involved in this stuff, there's a level
Speaker 3: of self importance and there's a level of also, we
Speaker 3: were really fucked up doing drugs and alcohol and I
Speaker 3: don't actually remember what was going on. Yeah, It's like
Speaker 3: there's a joke in the audio industry about like literally
Speaker 3: almost everybody has a I forgot, like like the Fleetwood
Speaker 3: Mac like I forgot I made that song story, Like
Speaker 3: I don't remember even being there and doing that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was watching a fucking uh an old video of
Speaker 2: them during like the Rumors tour, and it's just clear
Speaker 2: like not a one of you. You're all playing perfectly,
Speaker 2: but not one of you could walk ten feet without
Speaker 2: falling down like you are you are bru walk on
Speaker 2: that stage.
Speaker 3: And and although it has changed in its direction. There
Speaker 3: is still a large amount of that in the music
Speaker 3: industry where it's just like even on the like the
Speaker 3: professional side of things, like the engineers side of things.
Speaker 3: I once cleaned a console that had been like a
Speaker 3: soundboard that had been in use since like the early
Speaker 3: seventies of like the the Oh Metallica recorded here, like
Speaker 3: you know that type of thing. Like every band ever
Speaker 3: had used this console, And we took off the plates
Speaker 3: for the faders to clean it, and there was actually
Speaker 3: cocaine and like and like weed and like shit under
Speaker 3: the faders, like that much had accumulated over time that
Speaker 3: it was just like under and it was like oh my,
Speaker 3: and you're like you're like still, like why am I?
Speaker 3: Why am I hands? Like why do I feel numb
Speaker 3: right now?
Speaker 2: Just cocaine?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like that seventies.
Speaker 2: This himself before putting it on the back of the truck. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of like unreliable narration that happens
Speaker 3: in the music industry all the time. It's there's a
Speaker 3: lot of drugs, there's a lot of alcohol, and there's
Speaker 3: a lot of like man, sometimes people tell me my
Speaker 3: own stories.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like a lot of when you're talking about
Speaker 2: the guys who are also literally fighting each other a
Speaker 2: lot a head injuries, you know, yes, yeah, But the
Speaker 2: gist of it is, there's this huge conflict that comes
Speaker 2: to central around Tupac who's the big West Coast star,
Speaker 2: and Biggie who is the East Coast star. And you know,
Speaker 2: Tupac's you know, with Shug and Biggie is with Sean Diddy.
Speaker 2: So things come to a head on November thirtieth, nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety four, when Tupac Shakur is shot five times in
Speaker 2: the lobby of Quad Studios in Times Square. This is
Speaker 2: not when he dies. Tupaca was a tough.
Speaker 3: Suy real quick. Just to rewind in this story of
Speaker 3: what happened. So the East Coast West Coast thing, one
Speaker 3: of the big inciting factors were the Source Awards in
Speaker 3: New York probably I think a year before Tupac died,
Speaker 3: Suge Knight was on stage directly insulting did it like
Speaker 3: that was like that was his thing. He stood up
Speaker 3: on stage and he said, Hey, if any of y'all
Speaker 3: want to be out there and not have a producer
Speaker 3: that is singing and dancing all up in your videos
Speaker 3: and being like all in trying to make himself part
Speaker 3: of the show. Right, then come over to death row, right,
Speaker 3: and this was like a big This was when Snoop
Speaker 3: got involved. There was also a moment just before that,
Speaker 3: maybe it was right after I forget where Diddy and
Speaker 3: Shug were in a strip club in Atlanta and Shug's
Speaker 3: best friend. That was one of the times you were
Speaker 3: talking about Shugar's best friend got shot and killed in
Speaker 3: the parking lot or whatever after that alternate. So up
Speaker 3: until Tupac getting shot, there's multiple deaths that have already happened. Like,
Speaker 3: this is a back and forth thing that's kind of
Speaker 3: been going on, and they've been antagonizing. But it is
Speaker 3: Tupac and Biggie verbally in the public, right, But this
Speaker 3: is a sug Diddy situation. Yeah, this is their egos
Speaker 3: that are bleeding down into their artists, that are fighting
Speaker 3: against each other. Because Biggie and Tupac are best friends
Speaker 3: at one point, well not best friends, but they are
Speaker 3: good friends at one point in time. This is like
Speaker 3: an important like part to understand. Yeah, Biggie used to
Speaker 3: sleep on Tupac's couch. Tupac's acting and like starting out
Speaker 3: his career he's getting like his first records and everything.
Speaker 3: He's starting to have success. Before Biggie Biggi's sleeping on
Speaker 3: his couch. Biggie is his friend. So Tupac comes to
Speaker 3: New York to record at Quad Studios. This is like
Speaker 3: the big inciting incident before the Source Awards thing. Tupac
Speaker 3: comes to New York. He's recording in Quad Studios. He
Speaker 3: comes down to the lobby. Biggie and Diddy are there
Speaker 3: as well. That same night he comes down to the lobby,
Speaker 3: he gets shot and robbed in the lobby.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, and this is New York lobby. It's it's ten
Speaker 3: feet there's a security guy there. It's like, you know,
Speaker 3: it's a So he gets shot in that lobby and
Speaker 3: he immediately blames Biggie.
Speaker 2: Well, and there's for selling him out, and there's I
Speaker 2: mean yeah, and there's also like it's it's worth Biggie
Speaker 2: and Puffy are in the studio right at this at
Speaker 2: the top, like, and he is the only it's a
Speaker 2: quote unquote robbery, but he is the only one who
Speaker 2: gets shot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, he's the only one that gets shot. And
Speaker 3: like it's been dramatized in a lot of like you know,
Speaker 3: biopics and everything, but it's a non descript place. Like
Speaker 3: I've been to Quad Studios before I recorded there. It's
Speaker 3: a pretty non descript place. It's not like a flashy
Speaker 3: studio like in La You can see that a lot
Speaker 3: of the studios, you know, a lot of them are
Speaker 3: kind of like nonscript but but you can like they
Speaker 3: have signs or whatever. Quad Studios has no sign. Quad
Speaker 3: Studios is not like an accident where you just stumble
Speaker 3: in and shoot somebody. Yeah, yeah, no, you have to
Speaker 3: know somebody is there. It's on like the thirteenth floor
Speaker 3: or some shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he wasn't like on the street, and it was
Speaker 2: a crime of opportunity, right, Like the fact that he's like,
Speaker 2: what this pad do have been them? Is not not
Speaker 2: paranoia or whatever? Ruling yes, yeah, And so that builds
Speaker 2: up Tupac.
Speaker 3: Actually, right after that shooting, he goes to jail for
Speaker 3: sexual assault, spend some time in jail, and that's when
Speaker 3: Biggie's career grows gets all big, and he comes out
Speaker 3: of jail to see Biggie now succeeding like fully and
Speaker 3: also feeling that hatred and that that you know, like
Speaker 3: they were involved in this somehow of me getting shot
Speaker 3: becomes incredibly paranoid. This is when the Tupac switch really
Speaker 3: goes to the gangster shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and he starts and putting out songs
Speaker 2: insulting Biggie and bad boy rap exactly exists.
Speaker 3: And again, while he's in jail, Biggie puts out who's shots.
Speaker 3: I think he was in jail away. I might be
Speaker 3: missing some of this up because also I am an
Speaker 3: unreliable But while he's in jail, Biggie puts out who
Speaker 3: shot you? Which seems like a direct attack on Tupac.
Speaker 3: Who's shot YOUA is like a pretty.
Speaker 2: It's a pretty funny thing to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you're wondering who's shot and.
Speaker 2: Somebody puts out a song, it's the if I did
Speaker 2: it of gangster rap.
Speaker 3: Yes, it really is, and like and so Tupac's like, okay,
Speaker 3: well then he no, and this escalates to a massive,
Speaker 3: massive battle between East Coast and West and.
Speaker 2: We are going to talk more about that. But you
Speaker 2: know what, never shot Tupac. The best of my knowledge,
Speaker 2: I can't really prove this, but it's unlikely.
Speaker 3: Our products and sponsor yea and and sponsors, Yeah, products
Speaker 3: are the guys, the guys that give us the money.
Speaker 3: It's doing stuff very unlikely that they did.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, although although unless it's.
Speaker 3: An yeah, you might get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah starts buying podcast space and we're back. So in
Speaker 2: September of nineteen ninety five, there's another you know chapter
Speaker 2: in this escalating battle. Witnesses say that they see Diddy's
Speaker 2: bodyguard get into an argument at an Atlantic club with
Speaker 2: a guy named Jai Hassan Jamal Roblez, a member of
Speaker 2: Death Rows who's like a death Row guy, right, and
Speaker 2: then after that argument, Roblez is shot and killed. And
Speaker 2: it's one of those like, well, he was having an
Speaker 2: argument with Combs's bodyguard who's a shooter, and then he
Speaker 2: gets shot, right.
Speaker 3: Turns out people with guns are willing to use this.
Speaker 2: And by the way, Combs's bodyguard, who probably Roblez, gets
Speaker 2: shot himself years later in Atlanta. You know, not a
Speaker 2: long life.
Speaker 3: Like I said, this is this is a back and
Speaker 3: forth kind of situation for a long time. It's like
Speaker 3: it mirrors what is going on because these are people
Speaker 3: who are also gang relating in all these situations. It's
Speaker 3: a lot of bloods versus crypt situation. This is the
Speaker 3: early nineties. This is actually a thing that's going on
Speaker 3: in the.
Speaker 2: World is tightened, the organized crime part of it and.
Speaker 3: The mob pirus in California and the and the crypts
Speaker 3: in Los Angeles and Crenshaw. It's like this is all
Speaker 3: happening at the same time.
Speaker 2: Diddy is not a guy who comes out of gang life,
Speaker 2: but he is now involved in organized crime, right, because
Speaker 2: that's just.
Speaker 3: One of the big implications for Diddy being involved in
Speaker 3: Tupac's death is that he was hiring.
Speaker 2: Keep Yeah, we'll be talking about that, right.
Speaker 3: So it's like we get into this he is associated
Speaker 3: heavily with other gang members. It's a bit like the
Speaker 3: Rolling Stones Hell's angel Ship where it's like, who do
Speaker 3: you hire to protect you in your territory? Don't hire
Speaker 3: the people who are strong there, You don't.
Speaker 2: You're not saying have that, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: And even to this day, you know, I've toured with
Speaker 3: some big acts. I've toured with, you know, jay Z
Speaker 3: and pusha T. I've toured with a lot of like
Speaker 3: mid level like rappers, VIC Mensa and id K, like
Speaker 3: all sorts of stuff like that. Even to this day,
Speaker 3: when you go to a town, a city, you check
Speaker 3: in with the guy there on the rap tours, you
Speaker 3: check in with the j princes, you check in with
Speaker 3: the people that are the guy in that town out
Speaker 3: of respect, out of whatever, but like you make sure
Speaker 3: that you are talking to those people. So this is
Speaker 3: happening now, make no mistake that was there are people
Speaker 3: that were in charge in those cities that were heavily
Speaker 3: like involved in the responsibility around protecting those incidences from happening. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, podcasting works the same way. You know when the
Speaker 2: Last podcast on the Last Guys when they tour in Portland,
Speaker 2: you know, they give Sophie and I down, you know,
Speaker 2: the pod Save Guys. When I go to d C.
Speaker 2: You know, fucking they'll uh the Last the last if
Speaker 2: you don't call them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, you know, and I understand that.
Speaker 3: You know, It's like it's the hard business. Similar. Yeah,
Speaker 3: the knitting circles are actually very similar as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, Sophie just put out a hit on
Speaker 2: I'm really bad at actually knowing other people in the
Speaker 2: podcast business. I was gonna say, Sarah Marshall that y'all
Speaker 2: are real life from No, absolutely not. I'm going I'm
Speaker 2: going to Chicago. I gotta call the knowledge fight guys.
Speaker 2: Make sure they don't fucking put one in me at
Speaker 2: the airport. Oh man. So, and it's also worth noting,
Speaker 2: as we say people are dying, Combs is ordering hits, right.
Speaker 2: I can't say that to a point of legal certainty.
Speaker 2: The ordering hits.
Speaker 3: The implication is strong that people are being directed to
Speaker 3: execute other people on this. You know. Yeah, bye Sean. First.
Speaker 2: I might not have said that a few months ago,
Speaker 2: but now that he's in jail, I feel confident he's
Speaker 2: not going to assume me for defamation. Yeah, he's definitely
Speaker 2: had people killed. Yeah. Yeah. So it is also and
Speaker 2: I should you know, we're talking about this feud, and
Speaker 2: we will get back to this East coast West coast feud.
Speaker 2: I should note here it is around this time in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three or nineteen ninety four. I think the
Speaker 2: timeline's a little bit murky. The person may not remember precisely,
Speaker 2: because that's the way trauma works. That Sean Combs is
Speaker 2: accused of committing his second rape that we know of,
Speaker 2: Lisa Gardner, who was sixteen years old at the time.
Speaker 2: He is in his twenties. She is a child says
Speaker 2: that she met Colmebs and Aaron Hall at an album
Speaker 2: release in New York. She alleges that Colmes coerced her
Speaker 2: into having sex, and then Hall assaulted her, and then
Speaker 2: Diddy rapes her, and then Diddy and Hall rape her
Speaker 2: fifteen year old friend Monica Chase. So he and his
Speaker 2: friend Aaron Hall coerce and rape two underage people, one
Speaker 2: of whom is fifteen, one of whom is sixteen. The
Speaker 2: day after the assault, Combs comes to her house, she says,
Speaker 2: and chokes her until she passes out, and then sexually
Speaker 2: assaults her again. This is bad stuff. This is bad,
Speaker 2: very bad stuff. Yeah, and it's one of those like, yeah,
Speaker 2: ordering hits is bad too, But to an extent, everyone
Speaker 2: who's in this East Coast West Coast thing is agreeing,
Speaker 2: we're going to do some dangerous shit, right.
Speaker 3: Yes, oh yeah. Like so outside of the sex assault stuff,
Speaker 3: that's just.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm.
Speaker 3: Just like I can't.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you gotta use this. It's the only
Speaker 2: thing that you can do after talking about something that horrible.
Speaker 2: It's necessary.
Speaker 3: Oh no. But it's like it's like that's willing participants stuff,
Speaker 3: not the sex assaults of the gang stuff. This is
Speaker 3: willing participant stuff. So it's like it's a lot easier
Speaker 3: to sit back and be But like the sex assault
Speaker 3: stuff happening co currently, it's like, it's that what we
Speaker 3: were talking about. It is like it's covering up almost
Speaker 3: or being covered up by the gang stuff. It's like
Speaker 3: we're over here thinking about East Coast West Coast war.
Speaker 3: He's raping girls. Like it's like that's that's the thing
Speaker 3: that likes.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, It's like it's like there's one side where it's like, well,
Speaker 3: this is like a willing participant situation. I mean, obviously
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to say everybody that's hurt by gang
Speaker 3: violence is a willing but the yeah, yes, it's like
Speaker 3: between these two guys, they are fighting each other. They
Speaker 3: are fighting each other, They're causing the country to fight
Speaker 3: each other. Like there this is a thing that's like
Speaker 3: escalating violence amongst people in gangs. You know. It's like,
Speaker 3: but yeah, willing participants. Again, it's like there's obviously collateral
Speaker 3: damage is obviously bad shit. But but the other side
Speaker 3: of this, where it's like sexual assault stuff, it's like, damn, dude,
Speaker 3: like you don't even get that shit. To the surface
Speaker 3: because there's people dying.
Speaker 2: Right, and everyone's paying attention to the glamorous gang fight stuff, right,
Speaker 2: and this is happening the whole time that's going down.
Speaker 2: Also in nineteen ninety four, the same year, probably Comb's
Speaker 2: allegedly met and raped a woman named April Lampros. She
Speaker 2: claims that he started it by telling her he wanted
Speaker 2: to be her mentor, he love bombed her, and once
Speaker 2: they were dating, he ordered to keep the relationship secret
Speaker 2: and started beating her. Lampros later alleged that Combs forced
Speaker 2: her and his partner at the time is romantic partner
Speaker 2: kim Porter, to take MDMA and then force them to
Speaker 2: have sex while he watched. She attempted to cut off
Speaker 2: contact with him, but he threatened her, including with revenge porn,
Speaker 2: so she keeps going for a while. This would have
Speaker 2: been a thing that would have looked like they were
Speaker 2: dating from the outside, but a big part of it
Speaker 2: is that he is violent and if she leaves, he's
Speaker 2: going to post videos of them having you know of yeah,
Speaker 2: you know so.
Speaker 3: And this is all a recurring business and all the stuff.
Speaker 3: It's like he took that that one playbook and just
Speaker 3: ran with it, play the hits every single time. He
Speaker 3: just kept going with it because like he knew that
Speaker 3: there is a there and there is a very truthful
Speaker 3: element to the power of influence like that you can
Speaker 3: have by by just being who you are and being
Speaker 3: a big deal. And it's scary because you think, especially
Speaker 3: with people like Diddy, where they actively know that they
Speaker 3: are untouchable. Yeah, they actively know that they're untouchable and
Speaker 3: that they can do whatever they want.
Speaker 2: And these are like, these are the two cases we
Speaker 2: have from the fucking the war years, right, these aren't
Speaker 2: the only two. Like, again important, that's not a singular
Speaker 2: event type. This is a pattern that he has and
Speaker 2: he is engaging in this pattern regularly for basically like
Speaker 2: most of the time you and I have been alive.
Speaker 2: That's the kind of bastard we're talking about it.
Speaker 3: I was five when he started, Yeah, right, that was three. Yeah.
Speaker 2: In September of nineteen ninety six, Tupac was gunned down
Speaker 2: in a drive by shooting in Las Vegas. Six months
Speaker 2: after that, Biggie is killed they drive by in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2: No one was officially convicted by their murder, but we
Speaker 2: at this point also pretty much know who did both.
Speaker 2: Biggie was very likely gunned down by a guy named Pouci,
Speaker 2: So you can imagine is the character from the Simpsons
Speaker 2: if you like.
Speaker 3: And he's gonna at the end of it.
Speaker 2: He is.
Speaker 3: Here's the toughest part. Again, again, unreliable narrators, right. Also,
Speaker 3: every single one of these people die, every single one
Speaker 3: of them gets shot in an early death, or Leido Anderson,
Speaker 3: who was the likely killer of Tupac, also ended early.
Speaker 3: Keithy D is the only one that's stuck around.
Speaker 2: For amazing makes it You never think it's gonna be,
Speaker 2: but it is.
Speaker 3: Keithy D sticks around and he is as unreliable as
Speaker 3: they come, just because of who he is as a person.
Speaker 3: It is all it's braggadocious shit. It's all about like
Speaker 3: talking about I who was involved in this thing? It
Speaker 3: is definitely he was involved. Yeah he was in the
Speaker 3: right places. But there's a lot of like you know,
Speaker 3: it's even that way with Suge Knight, where it's like
Speaker 3: Suge Knight is bragging about a lot of this stuff
Speaker 3: and trying to like elevate and you don't get a
Speaker 3: complete narrative because nobody is ever gonna tell the truth.
Speaker 3: Right right, and as far as the evidence points yeah, Poochie.
Speaker 2: And also clarify here you will find other theories. There
Speaker 2: are people who say, no, it wasn't Poochi, it was
Speaker 2: this other person that killed Biggie, and the same is
Speaker 2: true with Tupac. I'm going with like the likeliest version
Speaker 2: of the story. This is not a litigate who killed Tupac?
Speaker 2: Podcast right, there's literally podcasts, strong opinions, nine biographies, there's bios,
Speaker 2: there's there's so many things. I've got to work in
Speaker 2: theory that it was in fact Bernie Sanders who dropped
Speaker 2: to damnit, I.
Speaker 3: Was gonna make that joke. I was gonna say this.
Speaker 2: Sanders.
Speaker 3: I was ready, damn it. I was gonna make that
Speaker 3: joke because I knew it was going to be a
Speaker 3: deep cut that like the real lovers of the pot,
Speaker 3: he'd be like, oh shit, he's one of us.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, as you noted, Tupac was almost certainly killed
Speaker 2: by Dwayne Keefey d Davis, who was finally arrested last
Speaker 2: year for the murder. He had been made a police
Speaker 2: informant in two thousand and nine after an arrest for
Speaker 2: drug trafficking. This is like a lot of people. He
Speaker 2: is not super well informed about how the legal system works,
Speaker 2: and he believed himself immune to prosecution and admitted to
Speaker 2: killing Tupac in a drive by in nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3: And all right, so heavily believe So the breakdown of
Speaker 3: this story, I'll try and get through really quick. But basically,
Speaker 3: it was a Tyson fight in Las Vegas. Tupac is
Speaker 3: there with his girlfriend and Suge Knight. He goes because
Speaker 3: he actually wrote a song for Mike Tyson's walking. He
Speaker 3: wrote like a rap song from Mike Tyson and it's like,
Speaker 3: it's funny, you should listen to it, but it's, you know,
Speaker 3: a Tupac. So he's there and he's watching the fight.
Speaker 3: And then after the fight he sees a guy, Orlando Anderson,
Speaker 3: who just weeks prior had taken somebody down and stolen
Speaker 3: their chain. This is a big deal at this time.
Speaker 3: You have a chain that says death row on it.
Speaker 3: Suge Knight only gives those to the closest of associate cinema.
Speaker 2: Again, podcasting works the same way. Exactly, I'm gonna come
Speaker 2: out blast it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Orlando Anderson was involved in that. Tupac sees him
Speaker 3: right after the Tyson fight, he beats the shit out
Speaker 3: of him in a lobby and then goes back to
Speaker 3: his place. And then Sugar and Tupac are gonna go
Speaker 3: to an after party. They start driving down the street.
Speaker 3: Orlando Anderson happens to be Keithy D's nephew, right, and
Speaker 3: they are in a car together driving down the street,
Speaker 3: and Orlando and keify. Depending on which narrator you believe
Speaker 3: one of them definitely plug Tupac. Now in one of
Speaker 3: the greatest moments in Tupac history, in all history, fuck it.
Speaker 3: The cop comes up to Tupac and he says, who
Speaker 3: shot you? Two bucks is fuck you? Because even in
Speaker 3: death he kept it real. It is one of my
Speaker 3: favorite Those were like his last words. That was his
Speaker 3: last words, was saying fuck you to him.
Speaker 2: He's a literal Johnny tight lips character. Yeah you shut
Speaker 2: I ain't saying nothing.
Speaker 3: I say yeah.
Speaker 2: Would tell the doctor tell him to a second exactly, literally,
Speaker 2: like who shot you?
Speaker 3: He knows who shot him. He just beat that guy
Speaker 3: up ten fucking minutes ago. You know. He's like, no, man,
Speaker 3: fuck yourselves.
Speaker 2: Speaking of shooting people. Don't do that. Listen to these ads.
Speaker 2: We are.
Speaker 1: Bah no now man, Shane so much Shane.
Speaker 2: Fuck so Tupac. We're talking about Tupac who was almost
Speaker 2: certainly killed by Dwayne Keefe D Davis. So Davis, while
Speaker 2: believing himself immune to prosecution, admits to killing Tupac in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six. This is much more recently. He just
Speaker 2: got arrested, I think last year. And he also claims,
Speaker 2: while he again believed himself immune, that did he offered
Speaker 2: him a million dollars to kill Tupac and paid that
Speaker 2: fee to a different South Side Crips member to do
Speaker 2: the job.
Speaker 3: And he did not get that money ever.
Speaker 2: No, Wow, he got fucked over by a fucking did.
Speaker 2: He's not a man of his word, man.
Speaker 3: This guy. No. So. One of the things, so Keithy
Speaker 3: D had actually been a security guard for Puffy for
Speaker 3: a while and like and that's how that link had
Speaker 3: been established, you know. One of the things that's like
Speaker 3: there's parts of this whole story that you have to
Speaker 3: kind of take with like a bit of like I
Speaker 3: don't think Keithy D was actively like seeking out Tupac
Speaker 3: or anything. I think there's a situation where if Puffy
Speaker 3: was involved in this whole situation the way that it
Speaker 3: has been accused. I think he did what they say
Speaker 3: he did, which is he put a word out. The
Speaker 3: word is, if you kill Tupac, I give you a
Speaker 3: million dollars. Right. And then I think keify D and
Speaker 3: Orlando Anderson happened to be in the right place at
Speaker 3: the right time, right. They they were at the right
Speaker 3: place at the right time, they were connected in the
Speaker 3: right situation that it happened that they were like, we
Speaker 3: know where this motherfucker is. We are here right now,
Speaker 3: Let's do this shit and we'll try and collect on
Speaker 3: this later. And I think probably, although I don't think
Speaker 3: it was a million dollars right this. I could be
Speaker 3: wrong about this, but I think what it was actually
Speaker 3: transferred was like two hundred thousand or something like that.
Speaker 2: This is what keify D says, right. I'm not saying
Speaker 2: this is the literal amounts or how it actually right opened.
Speaker 3: Right. So I think that that's exactly like I think
Speaker 3: it got transferred. I think people didn't like the one
Speaker 3: guy definitely pocketed that money, or according to the story,
Speaker 3: pocketed that money. The in between guy pocketed that money
Speaker 3: and was like okay, bitch. But I think that. You know, again,
Speaker 3: unreliable narration in this whole story, but there's some I
Speaker 3: don't think it was intentional, is my point, that they
Speaker 3: were trying out at that moment to kill Tupac. They
Speaker 3: didn't go to Vegas with the intent of killing Tupac.
Speaker 3: I think they went to Vegas to see a fight,
Speaker 3: and yeah, there was an incident and then it just
Speaker 3: turned up and it was a perfect time, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it seems more like that than it was a premeditated
Speaker 3: situation of they're out there looking to kill Tupac, like
Speaker 3: they're on the street ready to do it, Like Biggie
Speaker 3: saw Keithy and was like, I will give you this money,
Speaker 3: go kill him now, and he went there directly. I
Speaker 3: think it was a crime of convenience more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that seems likely to me. I don't
Speaker 2: know what happened. And again when I was saying this
Speaker 2: is what this guy says, I'm not saying this is
Speaker 2: literally what happened. This is a dude bowshitting to the
Speaker 2: cops how he thinks he's im mute. So the cops
Speaker 2: had him reach out to the guy that he said
Speaker 2: actually got paid for the job, and to Ditty basically
Speaker 2: trying to get ditty on a wire, being like, yeah,
Speaker 2: killing Tupac was rad right, I don't think that worked.
Speaker 2: Sean is not that dumb, and he has.
Speaker 3: He has notoriously been very good about not talking to
Speaker 3: the wrong people.
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, and he has not been charged with this.
Speaker 2: I don't know that he ever will. But prosecutors, summarizing
Speaker 2: one of the interviews with KFD and court documents wrote,
Speaker 2: and this is from right after Tupac's death, Sean Combs
Speaker 2: reaches out to defendant wondering if Southside crips were responsible
Speaker 2: for Shakur's death by asking, is that us defendant beaming
Speaker 2: with pride? Answers yes, And that is probably how it
Speaker 2: went down, because it often these things are not like
Speaker 2: I ordered to hit and then he was shot. It
Speaker 2: was more I made it known and I spread some
Speaker 2: money around that like I wanted someone to take a
Speaker 2: shot at this guy, but like other people could have
Speaker 2: done it, like I don't know, you know, this is
Speaker 2: what I'm.
Speaker 3: Talking about, the clout industry of this because it is
Speaker 3: part entertainment industry, it's part it's part male ego, and
Speaker 3: like especially at this time, like the way that the
Speaker 3: rap industry was was like very like strong, like male
Speaker 3: ego centric type stuff. You know. It was like Tupac
Speaker 3: literally the beef between him and Biggie, like you know,
Speaker 3: Biggie made hushatcha and he responded. Tupac responded with saying,
Speaker 3: you claim to be a player, but I fucked your wife,
Speaker 3: you know, like he Yeah, he came back with what
Speaker 3: at that time was considered the most and the rumors
Speaker 3: around him and faith Hill actually having you know, a relationship.
Speaker 3: We're certainly like that's real shit. You know, like this
Speaker 3: is a real like manly type fight. You know, this
Speaker 3: is what they're fighting about, these chauvinistic type concepts.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, I mean it's exactly like I put two bullets
Speaker 2: in Dan from knowledge fight, you know, not because I
Speaker 2: didn't like him, just because you know he was on
Speaker 2: my turf, right, you know, he was on my turf
Speaker 2: and he didn't call me before Jordan went to Portland.
Speaker 2: You know, this is just the way nobody likes it.
Speaker 2: This is just the way podcasting has to be. There's
Speaker 2: no other way to do it, you know, Sorry, man,
Speaker 2: there's no other way to do it. Yeah. Yeah, one
Speaker 2: of the NP are guys stabbed me. You know, that's
Speaker 2: just the way it is. One of those radio lab guys.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell you which one. I don't
Speaker 2: talk except for snitch. I'll snitch on Joe Rogan.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let me find out some news on him.
Speaker 2: So anyway, not conclusive, but probably pretty safe to say.
Speaker 2: Did he had something to do with the Tupac killing.
Speaker 3: At the very least he influenced it by positively putting
Speaker 3: put that word into the hood, right, if you kill him,
Speaker 3: there's money on it for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And you know, obviously, the greater crime in
Speaker 2: this is the fan art that this whole tragic rivalry
Speaker 2: has inspired it. I'm speaking specifically. I wrote this episode
Speaker 2: listening to a bunch of Tupac and Biggie socks, and
Speaker 2: while I was, you know, YouTube does its thing, and
Speaker 2: it took me to a playlist some DJ had made
Speaker 2: that was like Tupac and Biggie songs called Biggie Versus Tupac.
Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with the story, but whoever
Speaker 2: made it did a photo shop that Sophie's going to
Speaker 2: show you, and it's supposed to be like split down
Speaker 2: the middle, Tupac space and Biggie's face by side, but
Speaker 2: the way they did it, it just looks like Tupac
Speaker 2: had a stroke. Yeah, so to show it off.
Speaker 1: Okay, I got it stroked down.
Speaker 2: Like Biggie's got kind of those eyes. Not a successful
Speaker 2: photo shop, my man. I'm sorry, Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Here's the thing, man, just like you know, just like
Speaker 3: nw A, you know, the largest consumers of this East Coast,
Speaker 3: West Coast rap suburban white kids. You know. It's like,
Speaker 3: and this is true with even today, like you get
Speaker 3: into like the Travis Scott stuff, you get into like
Speaker 3: any wrap that's like, you know, it is largely consumed
Speaker 3: by suburban white kids who also I'm sorry, guys, like
Speaker 3: you know, same team or whatever, but you guys could
Speaker 3: be some of the dumbest corny as people that exist
Speaker 3: on the planet. Like that is pretty brutal, man.
Speaker 2: But yeah, the doubt, like the as a suburban white
Speaker 2: kid who was listening to fucking Biggie when I was fifty.
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too, Sorry, guys, Yeah, we just weren't really
Speaker 3: nailing it.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be a gangster one day, Plano fucking Tach. God,
Speaker 2: that was so funny. All the kids who would pretend
Speaker 2: to be fucking gangsters.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, dude. It is the large consumer of yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: of that bee. And also even today we're still sitting
Speaker 3: with this, the Kendrick Drake thing right now that is
Speaker 3: going on. I don't know how plugged in you are
Speaker 3: to this.
Speaker 1: I've tried to tell you.
Speaker 3: It seems Yeah, it seems largely egged on by like
Speaker 3: suburban white populace.
Speaker 2: No, honestly, I'm considering taking some shots at Drake. This
Speaker 2: seems like the time to do it.
Speaker 3: You know. Yeah, he's low, he's low. You can really
Speaker 3: get some in and nobody can say anything. This is
Speaker 3: gonna be punching down, punching down on Drake with whatever
Speaker 3: streams on spots.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Sean Puffy Combs at this point has helped
Speaker 2: it orchestraight Half a Coast's campaign of assassinations that led
Speaker 2: to the deaths of two of the greatest rappers of
Speaker 2: all time and also some other people. This was a
Speaker 2: tough period for Diddy, though, because after Biggie dies, he's
Speaker 2: successfully gotten rid of one of his major competitors at
Speaker 2: the cost of losing his own golden goose.
Speaker 3: Sort of, sort of, sort of. He waited a whole
Speaker 3: two weeks to release this. That's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: So he releases his first hit single in January of
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety seven. An album follows in July, which includes
Speaker 3: a touching tribute to Biggie titled I'll Be Missing You.
Speaker 3: That might as well be titled I'll be Cashing in
Speaker 3: on your Death. Although the complaint that you're gonna get
Speaker 3: from this, people are gonna be like, but he he
Speaker 3: never cleared the sample right from Sting?
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, he samples Stings every move you take, right something, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: the greatest crime he.
Speaker 3: Never clears it, and he to this day, like Sting,
Speaker 3: collects a pretty big amount of cash off of that. However,
Speaker 3: don't also forget that this is a time in the
Speaker 3: world where appearances pay, radio play pays, like everything pays.
Speaker 3: This isn't Spotify era, where like, you know, the song
Speaker 3: being everywhere in the entire world doesn't give you any
Speaker 3: money even though you're not getting any publishing off of it, because, yeah,
Speaker 3: when you record it yourself, you own that. That's the
Speaker 3: master recording, You own your version of it. Yeah, for
Speaker 3: certain things, right, publishing is one thing they can take
Speaker 3: all the publishing, and you still make money off of
Speaker 3: that song because it plays places.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: So it's not like it's not like he made no
Speaker 3: money off of that. I just know, like people are
Speaker 3: going but he didn't cash in on that because can
Speaker 3: you know, Yeah, no, it's like there's still money to
Speaker 3: be made, Especially in the nineties, there was still a
Speaker 3: lot of money to be made off of having a
Speaker 3: number one song in the country.
Speaker 2: This is the first rap single to debut at number
Speaker 2: one on the Billboard Top one hundred. Like, he makes
Speaker 2: a lot of money as a result.
Speaker 3: Everybody knows this song comes out at the VMA's dancing
Speaker 3: in a white suit like like he it was actually iconic.
Speaker 3: It's actually I mean yeah, yeah, the Biggie memorial in
Speaker 3: the background, his dead.
Speaker 2: Friend's huge face. Is he just fucking cash register sounds
Speaker 2: going on immediately.
Speaker 3: And there is also real quick just to backpedal a second,
Speaker 3: there is a lot of talk about Biggie wanting to
Speaker 3: leave Puffy's label before this happens. There is interviews with
Speaker 3: tons of people, again unreliable narrator type stuff, but there
Speaker 3: is a lot of interviews with people saying that Biggie
Speaker 3: wanted out of his deal with bad Boy because he
Speaker 3: felt like Puffy was taking advantage of him. He felt
Speaker 3: like he wasn't getting what he should from his music,
Speaker 3: that he wasn't getting like I think at the time,
Speaker 3: like he was worth like maybe twenty million dollars or
Speaker 3: something like that, you know, but he was not like
Speaker 3: reaping what he actually should have from nine era music.
Speaker 3: You know. It's like when you had a banger in
Speaker 3: nineties era music, you made like fifty million dollars. It
Speaker 3: was like an insane amount of money that you could make. Like,
Speaker 3: if you talk about nineties bands, they were selling they
Speaker 3: were still selling physical product. It's not like now with
Speaker 3: streaming and stuff like that. They were selling a physical product.
Speaker 3: So if you had a platinum album in the nineties,
Speaker 3: you made twenty five thirty million, if you're label didn't
Speaker 3: screw you, if there were you know, if you weren't
Speaker 3: getting fucked over, you made like thirty or forty million dollars,
Speaker 3: like you made in a tremendous amount of money. There's
Speaker 3: a lot of there's a lot of conversation about Biggie
Speaker 3: having known that prior to his death, which also leads
Speaker 3: to the implication that he may have actually been involved
Speaker 3: in yeah own death.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we're largely just staying away from that because
Speaker 2: it's it's not provable and the stuff that's provable is
Speaker 2: for shit honestly a lot.
Speaker 3: Worse again, very unreliable narrators everywhere. But it should at
Speaker 3: least be known that there is the theory out there
Speaker 3: in the world that that is something that goes on.
Speaker 3: You know, that that happened and that was what he
Speaker 3: was part of with that.
Speaker 2: Well, that's going to do it for part two. Will
Speaker 2: you got anything to plug before we roll out?
Speaker 3: Man? I have podcasts if you are a nerd and
Speaker 3: you like audio stuff but not nerdy audio stuff. I
Speaker 3: have a podcast called that Sounds About Right with my
Speaker 3: friend Shane Lance, who is a polar opposite of me
Speaker 3: as a human. He's very Christian, very positive human being,
Speaker 3: and I am divorced three times, so we make a
Speaker 3: good pair and we talk about cool audio stuff, about
Speaker 3: our own careers and a little inspirational. I mean, it's
Speaker 3: called That Sounds About Right. I also am found all
Speaker 3: over the internet on things from YouTube to TikTok under
Speaker 3: Greasy Will, Greasywill Music, Greezy, I'm easy to find a
Speaker 3: z and only one l on.
Speaker 2: Will Yeah check him out and uh check me out
Speaker 2: on Blue Sky, and I write, ok, and check out
Speaker 2: our other podcast, Blue Sky. I am all right now, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm happy you Actually you liked one of my ship
Speaker 2: did You're a thing, and people.
Speaker 3: Were very excited about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I don't have many followers on Blue Sky, but I
Speaker 3: share some really dark, twisted thoughts on there, so you know,
Speaker 3: if you're into that, you can find me there too.
Speaker 2: I'm sure watch will cancel himself and watch me cancel
Speaker 2: myself all on Blue Sky. All right, Well that's it.
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.
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