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Speaker 1: Trust me. Trust me. I'm like a swat person. I've

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Speaker 1: never lied to you.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome to trust me. The podcast about cult, extreme

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Speaker 2: belief and the abuse of power from two lizard people

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Speaker 2: who've actually experienced it. Thought of that one on the fly.

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Speaker 3: Who couldn't tell it all.

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Speaker 2: I am Lola Blanc I swear I'm not a lizard person.

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Speaker 3: And I am Megan Elizabeth. It is yet to be discovered.

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Speaker 2: Today, our guest is Frank Mink, who wrote a book

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Speaker 2: called Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead and about whom apparently

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Speaker 2: or on Home, I guess American History X is based.

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Speaker 3: I love that movie. I love Frank. He's really cool.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So he's gonna tell us about how he joined

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Speaker 2: a skinhead gang and became a white supremacist leader when

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Speaker 2: he was a teenager. He's going to talk to us

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Speaker 2: about how he was in doctrinated at age thirteen, how

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Speaker 2: he lived a teenage life of crime and violence and

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Speaker 2: even had his own skinhead public access.

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Speaker 3: Show crazy it's like racist PBS.

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Speaker 2: And then he's gonna tell us how he went to

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Speaker 2: prison for an act of violence made friends with the

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Speaker 2: people he was deposed to hate, and realized that his

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Speaker 2: white supremacist police were horribly, horribly wrong. We'll also get

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Speaker 2: into where he's at now and his current anti racist beliefs.

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Speaker 3: Yep, it's so important.

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Speaker 2: Who Lola, Yes, Megan.

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Speaker 3: What's the cultiest thing that happened to you this week?

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I'm going to be really vague, but there

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Speaker 2: have been some interesting group dynamics happening in my life,

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Speaker 2: huh this past month. I think you're aware of some

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Speaker 2: of them.

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Speaker 3: I am. I am.

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Speaker 2: There's a group that I'm in and whatever. It's just drama,

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Speaker 2: shit happens. But you know, I have such a despite everything,

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Speaker 2: despite how much of a cynic I am and a

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Speaker 2: skeptic and all that shit, I still in my heart

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Speaker 2: and kind of an idealist and kind of like believe

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Speaker 2: that operating in groups can be good and great, and

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Speaker 2: you know, and I constantly seek that out. I mean, albeit,

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Speaker 2: you know, not in any extreme way, but like just

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Speaker 2: socially and professionally, and it just always goes wrong. Man,

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Speaker 2: something always goes wrong and it doesn't have to end

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Speaker 2: the group, of course, but it just bums me out

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Speaker 2: because I feel like healthy communication isn't happening.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so it feels a little bit like you're on

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Speaker 3: the outside of the cult almost.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or almost as though they're viewing me like I've

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Speaker 2: I'm a cult leader and like or like like a

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Speaker 2: little bit of villainization going on. I could be totally wrong,

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Speaker 2: but without proper communication, my brain is just left to speculate,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: Uh huh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it just bumps me out. So I was talking

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Speaker 2: to my therapist about it, of course, Matt, and did

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Speaker 2: we talk about the rhyme thing yet?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So he taught me a rhyme. Okay, he teaches

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Speaker 2: me a lot of rhymes. My therapist is very into rhymes.

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Speaker 2: This particular rhyme is forming, storming and norming.

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Speaker 3: Whoa.

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Speaker 2: It is about small group dynamics, and it is exactly

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Speaker 2: what it sounds like. Basically, where a group forms, somebody

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Speaker 2: sort of naturally takes the leadership position just because of

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Speaker 2: their the particular dynamics that are going on. Somebody emerges

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Speaker 2: as the leader no matter what. This is just kind

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Speaker 2: of how small groups work, and then the people who

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Speaker 2: maybe weren't in that position tend to become resentful or

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Speaker 2: you know, decide that they are no longer happy with

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Speaker 2: the leadership, regardless of whether it was like intentional or

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Speaker 2: chosen or not, and storm the leadership essentially, and at

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Speaker 2: that point, either the group dissolves and is no longer

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Speaker 2: a group, or you know, they communicate and come to

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Speaker 2: understandings and basically create new norms. And that's the norming face.

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Speaker 2: I think it's like a little bit more complex than that.

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Speaker 2: When I googled it, there were like two other additional

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Speaker 2: norm like orm rhyme worms, worms, words, worms, But I

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Speaker 2: just thought that it was interesting and it makes me

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Speaker 2: feel kind of validated, not even validated, actually, kind of

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Speaker 2: just depressed.

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Speaker 3: Cool.

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Speaker 2: I mean, who knows if that's actually what's going on,

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Speaker 2: or it could very well be that, you know, people

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Speaker 2: are just having a rough time right now. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: but I suspect there's some resentment happening. But the reason

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Speaker 2: it's depressing is because it kind of feels like humanity

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Speaker 2: is doomed to just follow these patterns always, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I want to be able to like transcend these animalistic,

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Speaker 2: you know, patterns that we have. It's like we're a

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Speaker 2: pack of fucking dogs and there's nothing you can do

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Speaker 2: about it, like this is just how it works. But

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I want to be I mean, I just

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Speaker 2: wrote an essay about this, so the dog analogy is

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Speaker 2: fresh in my mind. But I want to be better

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Speaker 2: than the dog, you know. I mean, I love dogs,

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Speaker 2: I just don't I wish that we could be more

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Speaker 2: involved than that. That's all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well it'll happen. I really. Group dynamics is one

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Speaker 3: of the most complicated things I think on the planet,

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Speaker 3: especially when they're smaller for some weird reason. So I

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Speaker 3: have so much empathy for what you're going through. My

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Speaker 3: cultiest thing of the week is not quite so serious.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm fucking serious, Megan.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate it. I'm kind of wishing I had a

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Speaker 3: different one, to be honest, But I mean mine did

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Speaker 3: spark an argument, which was essentially, we're watching the new

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Speaker 3: show The Flight Attendant. Have you seen it now? It's magnificent.

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Speaker 2: I've heard good things.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So we're watching it, and somehow this TV show

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Speaker 3: strikes up a conversation of what airline is best. Now.

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Speaker 3: I won't go into what airline I choose to fly

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Speaker 3: and why. I quite frankly, it's embarrassing.

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Speaker 2: That means it has to be spirit. It's not spirit.

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Speaker 3: It's not spirit. But it was like a very u

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Speaker 3: deep like you, why are you insulting my airline? That's

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Speaker 3: what I fly? Do you know what I mean? And

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Speaker 3: it was just so primal, and I thought his airline

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Speaker 3: was stupid, and he thought my airline was stupid, and

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Speaker 3: it was just really, I feel safer on a particular airline.

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Speaker 2: You have brand loyalty, brand loyal.

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Speaker 3: I have, but to an extreme where I feel like

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Speaker 3: my physical safety and just emotional safety almost because that's

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Speaker 3: what my family or if my family buys me a

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Speaker 3: ticket home, that's what I'm flying on. So I became

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Speaker 3: very defensive and uh heated as well. So it was

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Speaker 3: just another interesting example to me of how deeply even

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Speaker 3: our most silly seemingly believes really run.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely you know, I'm obsessed with like all the logical

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Speaker 2: fallacies mm hmmm. I mean I can't even name a

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Speaker 2: specific one with that, but it just it just makes

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Speaker 2: me feel like we're all we're all faded to make

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Speaker 2: stupid ass choice totally defend our stupid ass choices, and.

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Speaker 3: If I go the deepest with it, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: that's what my dad flies. That's all it is. My

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Speaker 3: dad flies.

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Speaker 1: It.

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Speaker 3: I love my dad. You're saying that airlines stupid, So

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Speaker 3: you're saying my dad is stupid. Fuck you, we're breaking up,

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Speaker 3: Like what the hell?

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Speaker 2: Oh God, Honestly, you're further along than most people that

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Speaker 2: you can at least identify that. That's why you're feeling

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Speaker 2: that loyal spirit Airlines. Megan loves them. I do hashtag

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Speaker 2: spirit fuck Spirit. I just wanted to clarify that this

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Speaker 2: is a this is actually a Fox Spirit position that

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Speaker 2: I'm going to take here.

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Speaker 3: Uh yeah, you know that's our cultiest things of the week.

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Speaker 3: You'll remember, we're not leaving the house, so you gotta

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Speaker 3: take what you can get. I'm sorry that the flight

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Speaker 3: attendant was my only interesting culty moment of the week,

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Speaker 3: but that's what we're dealing with here, and it really

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Speaker 3: is proving to me how full of brim fire I

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Speaker 3: am for my small opinions.

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Speaker 2: So that's what we love about you, Megan.

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Speaker 3: Yep, it's full of fire and brimstone.

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Speaker 2: All right. Well, on that note, yes, let's talk to

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Speaker 2: Let's get talking to Frank.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, welcome Frank Mink.

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Speaker 2: So excited to talk to you. Let's start at the beginning.

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Speaker 2: So you your childhood was kind of rough, not the

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Speaker 2: most stable family in the world. Do you want to

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Speaker 2: just walk us through just early childhood stuff before you

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Speaker 2: are introduced to the neo Nazi lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: Sure? Absolutely. You know. I came up with a single

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Speaker 1: parent mother. We were on welfare. We struggled when I

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Speaker 1: was a kid. I remember having to go to store

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Speaker 1: of food stamps and being truly embarrassed at that. And

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Speaker 1: I grew up in South Philadelphia, like in a little

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Speaker 1: Irish Catholic neighborhood where everybody knows your business. We're all related.

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Speaker 1: Like I would go to my grandmam when I was

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Speaker 1: a little kid and be like, Grandmam likes Susie Q.

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Speaker 1: And she said, Susie Q from Ford Street, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: you from for Street. She got your third cousin to

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Speaker 1: vote you in Fast your home country, right, So that's

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Speaker 1: how close our neighborhood was, right. You can't date in

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood, can't date out of the neighborhood. But everyone

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Speaker 1: knew your business. And I just remember always feeling like

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Speaker 1: everyone knew that we were poor. I had food stamps,

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Speaker 1: and I was just kind of embarrassed that my mom

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Speaker 1: got remarried. I thought we were gonna have a stable life,

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Speaker 1: and the guy was just not a good human being,

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Speaker 1: was a drug addict, alcoholic. My mom had had me

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Speaker 1: with an Italian bank. I'm half Irish, half Italian, so

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Speaker 1: what I was told my whole life. And my stepdad

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Speaker 1: you used to always say he was going to beat

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Speaker 1: the Italian out of me. Get along, So anyway, I

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Speaker 1: got through it. They kicked me out when I was

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Speaker 1: thirteen and I moved in with my real dad. My

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Speaker 1: real dad is just a guy who has had a bar.

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Speaker 1: He was like the manager of this bar in the hood.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking. It was all like crack dealer. It was crazy.

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Speaker 1: It was a bar. It was in Philadelphia, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: always sunny, and it was pretty crazy. And so I

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Speaker 1: grew up around that, and then I went to an

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Speaker 1: all black school that year when I was thirteen. Fist

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Speaker 1: fighting all the time, and the fear of my stepdad

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Speaker 1: had put in me started to turn to hate. Right

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Speaker 1: because now these other kids are jumping me and fighting me,

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Speaker 1: but they're not beating me half as bad as this

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Speaker 1: dude just was beating me. So I'm cool like kind

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Speaker 1: of cool. I can fight, I can hand my own

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Speaker 1: and I could take a punch. So anyway, that summer

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Speaker 1: I got to get out of the get to get

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Speaker 1: out of the city, get away from my dad, get

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Speaker 1: away from everything. My dad's neighbor there was no joke,

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Speaker 1: no joke. So I moved up to the Lancaster, Pennsylvania area,

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Speaker 1: where my cousin lived. They were originally from South Philly,

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Speaker 1: and I used to go up there a lot to

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Speaker 1: visit because my aunt and uncle, who were great people,

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Speaker 1: moved their kids out of the city and the kids

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Speaker 1: weren't very happy about it, and so since they were

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Speaker 1: my direct cousins, I would go up and visit. They

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Speaker 1: lived up where it was all homage people like really

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Speaker 1: like I haven't seen that stuff, right, so, like I mean,

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Speaker 1: and like people up in Lancaster, like the Amish people

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Speaker 1: don't like reenact shit because you're coming, like they don't

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Speaker 1: there and start turning bugs with other white people, right like,

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Speaker 1: they really lived that way and that was natural geographic

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Speaker 1: stuff to me. That was amazing. So but my cousin

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Speaker 1: who was up there was kind of a punk rock

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Speaker 1: skater kid, and I couldn't wait to hang out with him.

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Speaker 1: I was a little punk rock skater kid, which also

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Speaker 1: led to a lot of the fights at my and

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Speaker 1: my school. Anyway, I get up there to Lancaster in

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Speaker 1: that area, and my cousin was involved in this neo

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Speaker 1: Nazi thing. I went into his room. He had all

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Speaker 1: swastika you know, swastika staff, he had pictures of the

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Speaker 1: Hitler he and newspaper articles about neo Nazis. He had

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Speaker 1: all that stuff just right there.

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Speaker 2: So what did you think of that when you first

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Speaker 2: saw that stuff?

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Speaker 1: That sound it was interesting, that's cool. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't have much. I knew about history. I watched Mcow's

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Speaker 1: and Aby when I was a kid. I knew, you know,

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Speaker 1: there was a World War. I knew this was kind

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Speaker 1: of the bad side of the World War. But it

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Speaker 1: was interesting, you know. I don't know, I just started

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Speaker 1: just started reading stuff. And I remember not knowing what

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Speaker 1: the word neo meant in front of Nazi. I remember

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Speaker 1: that was I was like, what's that mean? And kind

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Speaker 1: of just meant new. But I didn't know that back then.

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Speaker 1: So it's silly things, right.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So you're thirteen, get to your aunt's house, your cousin,

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Speaker 2: How did you Was your cousin older than you?

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Speaker 1: He was, right, yeah, he was older. He was a

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Speaker 1: couple of two and a half maybe two years older

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Speaker 1: than me.

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Speaker 2: Was he someone you looked up to?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely? Absolutely?

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Speaker 3: I was reading in the book when you say that

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Speaker 3: he introduced you as like a stand up guy, or

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Speaker 3: one of the guys said, you know, Frank's as stand

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Speaker 3: up dude. Your cousins told us all about you, and

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Speaker 3: your cousins just beaming at you, and you feel accepted.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because you know what happened was whenever these

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Speaker 1: neo Nazis was talking about black people, none of them

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Speaker 1: really were living around black people, right, So what my

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Speaker 1: my cousin would tell these neo Nazis, Yo, my little

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Speaker 1: cousin right here, who's coming to who's visiting me for

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Speaker 1: the summer, actually lives in like one of the worst

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Speaker 1: And they knew we were from the city, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: he lives in one of the worst neighborhoods. So all

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Speaker 1: these big bad neo Nazis would talk to me be like,

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Speaker 1: what do you really like? I mean, I love that attention, right,

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Speaker 1: them asking me what's it like going to school? Was

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Speaker 1: you know if I walked in my parents' house. Throughout

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Speaker 1: my life, I walk in my parents never said how's

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Speaker 1: your day, how's school, How's how's the game like? And

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Speaker 1: this them asked me, what's it like drawing around black people?

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Speaker 1: Someone saying, Yo, how's your day? How's your life?

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Speaker 2: Does someone caring about taking an interest in you as

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Speaker 2: a person?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely? So. Then I started hanging out with them a

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Speaker 1: little bit more. I noticed people fear them, and that

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Speaker 1: I really liked. I mean I really seeing the look

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Speaker 1: of fear in people's faces when they were around these

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Speaker 1: neo Nazis and I'm with them, and I like that

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Speaker 1: because up until that point, I might be a fourteen

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Speaker 1: I'm going to fourteen. Now I might be a fourteen

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Speaker 1: year old athletic sports kicks. I was a jock, punk

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Speaker 1: rock jock, but I was athletic and stuff. But really,

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Speaker 1: deep down inside I was just a fearful little kid.

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Speaker 1: I feared my parents. I feared my step parents, I

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Speaker 1: feared my school. And now someone's like fearing me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I liked it.

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Speaker 2: So you've been experiencing violence this whole time, and now

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Speaker 2: you feel kind of protected from from that.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, people have just been hurting me. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: you know, I know people like don't want to feel

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Speaker 1: bad for Neil and not a guy who wasn't even

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Speaker 1: a formal but just think. I mean, I just I

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Speaker 1: was just getting my ass booked all the time, you know, not.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know I was a good fighter. I

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Speaker 1: could fight, but nine out of ten times when I

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Speaker 1: was leaving school, sometimes it wasn't fair. My stepfather never

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Speaker 1: fought me fair. You know, just whoopings?

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Speaker 3: Was your stepfather a boxer? Was I reading that correctly?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? He would beat me like another guy would being

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Speaker 1: another guy in a Barbara. He hit me with jabs.

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Speaker 1: He you know, he broke his hand on my head

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Speaker 1: once and while I was holding my little sister who

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Speaker 1: was his daughter, like I'm holding her in my arms,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't like the way. He didn't like the

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Speaker 1: way I was holding her, so he punched me while

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Speaker 1: I was holding her. That's like he just looked for

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Speaker 1: he looked for anything for me to do anything wrong.

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Speaker 1: And the best people's you know, talk about American history

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Speaker 1: acts and we can talk about that later. But if

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Speaker 1: there's a bully. There's a movie called A Boy's Life

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Speaker 1: with Leonardo DiCaprio and Robert de Niro. If you ever

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Speaker 1: see that movie, man, it's one of the movies that

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Speaker 1: most made me feel that that feeling again of being

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Speaker 1: scared to even go home because of the guy. It's

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Speaker 1: a really good movie. So when these skinheads though, when

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Speaker 1: they took me this one night, they took me and

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Speaker 1: to started telling me like when was I gonna shave

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Speaker 1: my head? Because I had like a little punk rock haircut,

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Speaker 1: like when you're gonna shave all this off your head?

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Speaker 1: And for them even asked me like that was cool.

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Speaker 1: And then my cousin kind of was like, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's he's cool. And that night I looked at him

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Speaker 1: and I was like, let's do it, guys. And they

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Speaker 1: had a pair of clippers there, and each guy that

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Speaker 1: was there that I did like one roll in my head,

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Speaker 1: and another guy take the clippers. The next guy do

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Speaker 1: a roll in my head. And I'm the young guy.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm the young guy in this group. Now,

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Speaker 1: I had the hatred for the black and Latino kids

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Speaker 1: just because of school. You know, I already had this

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Speaker 1: little build up hatreot wrong or right, That's just what

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Speaker 1: was going on in my life. So I got that racism.

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Speaker 1: But when they started to talk about the Jews, you know,

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Speaker 1: the only thing I'd ever heard when I was a kid.

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Speaker 1: And I'll never forget this is my uncle one time

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Speaker 1: told me. He said all he was talking to his

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Speaker 1: other friends, and I came out and I heard him say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's around the store, and Johnny tried to jew mee

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Speaker 1: and everyone laughed, you know, and I remember asking my

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Speaker 1: uncle what that meant. I was like, what do you mean,

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Speaker 1: what's jui? Why is that funny? And he tried to

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Speaker 1: explain to me. He goes, well, see, Frank, the Jews

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Speaker 1: their notorious for money that He's like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: You'll get that joke when you're older. You'll get that

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Speaker 1: joke when you're older. And I'll tell you when I

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Speaker 1: was sitting in this meeting, my first like kind of

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Speaker 1: neo Nazi meeting, which was just in a guy's apartment

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Speaker 1: in Reading, Pennsylvania. I'm sitting in this meeting and these

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Speaker 1: guys start talking about the Jews and they start talking

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Speaker 1: about it, how the devil came to Eve and he

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Speaker 1: didn't get there. They take it her fruit. He got

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Speaker 1: the you know, the truer knowledge that isn't what happened?

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Speaker 1: They say the devil got her to have sex with

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Speaker 1: him and impregnates her with Kine. And Kine is not

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Speaker 1: of Adam and Eve. He's he's fake that at first

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Speaker 1: she runs off to Adam after she gets impregnated by

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Speaker 1: the devil. This is their version. Now she gets impregnated

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Speaker 1: by the devil, that's the sin, and then she runs

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Speaker 1: and she goes and tries to have sex with Sorry,

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Speaker 1: that's a train going by, because I'm right by a training.

359
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Speaker 1: So anyway, she had sex with this devil, got impregnated

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Speaker 1: with Kane, and then ran back to Abel and had

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Speaker 1: sex with Abel and that's where she got him to

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Speaker 1: protake in the sin. And then she did that because

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Speaker 1: she had Kane and she wanted to trick Adam and

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Speaker 1: to think that Kane says so in already in their story,

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Speaker 1: we got a Mari Povich episode, right, But they if

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Speaker 1: you ever look they will you will see where they

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Speaker 1: say the Jews are the seed of Satan, and that

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Speaker 1: goes back to that story. With all that being said

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Speaker 1: in that time, at that meeting, this guy starts to

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Speaker 1: talk about how the Jews are secretly with this government

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Speaker 1: called zog Zions occupational government, which is the secret you know,

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Speaker 1: covenant of the Jews that run the world, that they

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Speaker 1: come and siphon money off the Federal Reserve and they

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Speaker 1: give that money to Israel and then Israel's going to

375
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Speaker 1: cause World War three? Now why he's saying this to me?

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Speaker 1: All I remember is that it unlocked the joke. I

377
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,919
Speaker 1: got the joke now, and I always want to know

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00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 1: by this time, I want to know what all the

379
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 1: adults about to meet. I felt like they left me

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Speaker 1: to fen for myself. So I want to know everything

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Speaker 1: the adults know. I want to know they ever say,

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Speaker 1: why you believe in a stupid stuff? I want to

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Speaker 1: be able to shut them down. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: people that get into this stuff. I got into this

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Speaker 1: for a certain Bible. Some people got into it the

386
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,800
Speaker 1: pist their parents off. They got into the air Nazis

387
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,560
Speaker 1: to piss off the black kids at school. Whatever I'm

388
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,879
Speaker 1: telling you. I grabbed them to this thing for ser Bible,

389
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Speaker 1: and I listened every word they said, and I truly

390
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 1: got into this. I truly would admit it to absolutely really,

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Speaker 1: And so that's yeah.

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Speaker 2: Timothy McVeigh, for anyone who doesn't know, was an extremist

393
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Speaker 2: domestic terrorist responsible for the nineteen ninety five Oklahoma City bombing.

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Speaker 1: And so I did anything the movement wanted, any types

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Speaker 1: of hits, robberies, whatever.

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Speaker 2: I just want to back up a little bit because

397
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Speaker 2: there's one story that I read that was it painted

398
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Speaker 2: a really clear picture to me. You go to a

399
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Speaker 2: punk show and you still have your long hair and

400
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,040
Speaker 2: you're with all the skinheads. Well, I guess what I

401
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 2: find really interesting is that there aren't actually any people

402
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:39,440
Speaker 2: of color around you. Guys, So you've decided that these

403
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,560
Speaker 2: long hairs are the enemy because there's no one really

404
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,280
Speaker 2: else to be against where you live. Can you just

405
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 2: tell us about the rivalry with the long hairs?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So, and that was the part where I seen

407
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Speaker 1: people that feared in the Anazis was that night. But look,

408
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 1: I mean in Lancaster County at the time, there was

409
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Speaker 1: I don't know percentage wise of what was black, but

410
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Speaker 1: it was a tiny, tiny percentage. There's definitely more homage

411
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Speaker 1: people and so and Homaised people don't go to the nightclubs.

412
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Speaker 1: So these neo Nazis, as they're all gathering together, they

413
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 1: have to find a common enemy, right, I mean, these

414
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 1: are people that just hate. I mean, I mean, I'm

415
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,880
Speaker 1: becoming one of them. But and so you know, they

416
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 1: even talk about when they give the if white people

417
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 1: ever got their own homeland here in America, they would

418
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,719
Speaker 1: just break up quicker anyway because they just hate got

419
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Speaker 1: of heat. And so these guys would get these nightclubs

420
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Speaker 1: and they would hate on the punk rock kids, they

421
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:30,679
Speaker 1: would hate on the skater kids, they'd hate on the

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Speaker 1: long haired kids. I mean, look the long haired kids

423
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Speaker 1: at the time. Remember the time. Now it's nineteen eighty nine,

424
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Speaker 1: eighty eight, eighty nine. The other white hairstyle that's coming

425
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,359
Speaker 1: out is the mumbet. So we have a right to

426
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Speaker 1: be against them. Okay, I'm just just saying, even to

427
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,919
Speaker 1: this day, I still stand against the mullet. So yeah,

428
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 1: so we were at actively we look for people with mullets,

429
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Speaker 1: say at a concert or something. You know, it just

430
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 1: you know, just something to be honest, like a cat

431
00:20:58,359 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 1: looking for a toy.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's really when your ideology is hate, where does

433
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 2: it end? It Just it doesn't. And obviously we'll get

434
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,439
Speaker 2: more into that later. But I just I find it

435
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 2: fascinating that like there's not when there's no one around

436
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,600
Speaker 2: that is technically in the group that you're supposed to hate,

437
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 2: you just they just find other groups. Always. It's never ending.

438
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 1: Yep, it'll break down by religion, it'll break down by

439
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 1: you know, you name it, so many different things.

440
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 3: Something interesting to me was their fashion and like how

441
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:34,199
Speaker 3: organized was the the group? Was their meetings at a

442
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 3: certain time every week and what was that Like?

443
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we went by the very English style,

444
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 1: a lot of working class clothing, Doc Martins or English

445
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 1: working class. Everything is English working class. And that's how

446
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 1: the style skin you know, skinneeds weren't racist, I mean

447
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,159
Speaker 1: that's not how they started. They weren't neo Nazis. They

448
00:21:55,160 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 1: were kind of the want to be black kids in English. Really,

449
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the god don't truth. Who were

450
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 1: these like working class kids that were on welfare who

451
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 1: like smoke pot and listened to reggae music. That was

452
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 1: kind of the first skinheads. They were a rebellious little

453
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 1: urban kids in England.

454
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 2: Like when when did that begin?

455
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 1: That began like in the probably in the early sixties.

456
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,400
Speaker 1: In fact, there's a song by Elton John who obviously

457
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 1: Elton John is not in Neoots, but he has a

458
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 1: song called Saturday nights all right for fighting. That song

459
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 1: refers and is talking about skinheads and mods. He says,

460
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 1: my sister looks cute innerbracesm boots, which is a skinhead terms.

461
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,399
Speaker 1: My sister looks cute inner braces and boots, a handful

462
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 1: of grease in her hair, getting ready to fight. So

463
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 1: it's it's It was just an English punk rock thing,

464
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 1: and then the National Front came in and started recruiting,

465
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: and then also the socialist movements, the Communist Group started

466
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: recruiting these kids and then just made a split between

467
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: all these factions of neo Nazis.

468
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's all the different like subsections. You were talking

469
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 2: about how you were confused because you thought skinheads included

470
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 2: black people because there was like an anti racist group

471
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 2: of skinheads where you grew up.

472
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, the first skins I think I ever seen before

473
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: I became a new and I seen skins maybe six

474
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 1: months earlier. I was skateboarding down South Street in Philly,

475
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 1: which was a punk rocks, you know, skateboarder skinhead street,

476
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: and it was cool. It was an whole cool, punk

477
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 1: rock street with skateboard shops and punk rock shops and anyway,

478
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: I remember going to enter one time, and the first

479
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 1: one I've really seen skin day, Yeah, had two black

480
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: guys with them. So when I seen these neo Nazi skinheads,

481
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: but I had seen the Heroaldo thing, so the Veraldo

482
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 1: thing had already said that I knew that there was

483
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: anti racist and white power skin its by the time

484
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: I kind of met up. Gotcha.

485
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 2: Giraldo is referring to the nineteen eighty eight episode of

486
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 2: the daytime talk show hosted by Heraldo Rivera, in which

487
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 2: they spotlighted skinheads against racial prejudice. Okay, so tell us

488
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 2: about now you're in it. You're in this group, you

489
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 2: have this community, You're feeling more confident as a person,

490
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 2: and you basically start getting deeper into the ideology. Tell

491
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,199
Speaker 2: us about the show, just yeah, tell us about that period.

492
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, so I clicked on in the high school

493
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: at fourteen, Like I just got kicked out of high

494
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 1: school and just never reregistered to go back. I was

495
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: in there for two weeks. So I moved in with

496
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: the movement, Like I moved and lived up in like

497
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: the compounds and nowhere else to go, and I you know,

498
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: that's where I wanted to go. I would go up

499
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: to Bible studies. We'd have Bible studies where we'd learn

500
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: about how I am now a soldier for God. Let

501
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: me we go up, we shoot guns at targets of people,

502
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: and then we go and read the Bible and we're in.

503
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: Everything that we're doing right now is being proud erying

504
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: Christian soldiers with marching orders from God to destroy sonominga Moor,

505
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: which is America. So you're taking a welfare kid from

506
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: South Philly and you're telling me that God wants me

507
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: on this team. And then when they would tell us

508
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: the stories about it Adam and Eve and now again

509
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 1: I was going to raise the Irish Catholic I never

510
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 1: once heard them stories out of the Bible from Father

511
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: Los sol system Mary Agnes. They never told me that

512
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: story with the devil having sex with Eve, like I

513
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: never that shit. When I would question things and say

514
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 1: how come I never heard that, they say, because God

515
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 1: chose you to know it. Now, Frank, you've been learning

516
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: from the devil. You know. They hate Cathosism, a Jewish worship.

517
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: It's a jew worshiping religion. It would say, you've been

518
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: lied to your whole life, like here's the truth. And

519
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 1: again to tell a guy who has nothing, nothing going

520
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: on in my life, you're gonna tell me that, Like,

521
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: I'm part of this bigger team. And this is how

522
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: you build radicals, this is how you build Islamic terrorists.

523
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: It's the same tool, it's the same thing. And like

524
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: they don't you got to think, like these people that

525
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: are neo Nazis don't think that they're bad, so we

526
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: can't think like, oh, they're like, yeah, I'm gonna get

527
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: this guy to go do a bombing. They just think

528
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: they're preaching the peace. They're preaching the truth, not the peace.

529
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: They're preaching the truth, right, so, and that they're trying

530
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: to shed light. So I know, it's really hard sometimes

531
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,959
Speaker 1: when people are like here when they talk about the Bible,

532
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: and you're like, I mean, don't you know you're evil

533
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 1: by saying this stuff in the Bibles like this? But

534
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: we don't. We absolutely don't know. We think it's just

535
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: like the Trumpers, they don't know that they believe in

536
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: a madman right now. They don't know that they think

537
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: that this is right and good. Yeah, And that's how

538
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: I felt for a long time. So I get into

539
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: this and I'm starting to preach and I wound up

540
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: running all across the country. I wound up living in

541
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: a safe house in northern Indianapolis. I was wanted by

542
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: the police in Philadelphia, and my movement got me out

543
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: of town, so I wound up popping back up in Indianapolis.

544
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: Wound up meeting up with some other neo Nazis in Illinois.

545
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: This time, I'm traveling just randomly around the country, like

546
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 1: catching rides or I sold some guns so I had

547
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 1: some money and I would just get on buses and

548
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: go wherever. And I'm sixteen years old.

549
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 2: What were you wanted by the police for.

550
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: A sault in assault? I think it was a salt

551
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: probably as sault battery and a robbery. On that one,

552
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: I think they wanted me for, okay, and then another

553
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: one for my rest in wild Wooden, Jersey too for

554
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 1: a fight and for a robbery.

555
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 2: And are these robberies like stick ups or are they

556
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 2: like just people on the street? Like how what is

557
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: what is that?

558
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: Well? One was kind of a stick up, and it

559
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: was all under the guides that it's it's for the movement,

560
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 1: like I mean, it was all but you know, really,

561
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: anyone was against us was our enemy. So I got

562
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: to do whatever I wanted to. Anybody, gotcha if you

563
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: want a part of our movement. I'm sixteen. I wound

564
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: up trying to kill myself just to show you what

565
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: was really inside me at the time. I mean I was,

566
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: and that's like my second or third a tenth as

567
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: a teenage. Really hated Christmas. I hated everything. I tried

568
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 1: to kill myself. I was in Tarro in Deiana. I

569
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: got put in a mental hospital. Wound up having to

570
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 1: break out of the mental hospital to go to get

571
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: out of going back to Philadelphia with my warrants. They

572
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: found my warrants in the hospital. While I was in

573
00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: the hospital.

574
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: It broke out. How did you get out?

575
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, my buddies came in the middle of the night

576
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: from Illinois and uh broke my window. Like they didn't

577
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: even break it all the way that it spider web did.

578
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: It was a big long window. It was in my room.

579
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: My room actually overroke the parking lot. I was like

580
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: up on the second story and they and I think

581
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: actually they shot through the glass finally finally put a hole. Wow,

582
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: And so I put on my furniture against my door

583
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: keep from the you know, the big orderles coming in

584
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: and get me. Well, I went and I put all

585
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: my furniture against the door. And when they came to

586
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: my door, I was trying to like find some other way,

587
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: So I jump out the damn window. I was going

588
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: to try and climb down on his blanket or something.

589
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: My door. Like most hospitals, my door pulls open. So

590
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: when they pulled out my door, my furniture was a

591
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: city like what are you doing? You know? And I

592
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: was like, oh so uh, I just leaped. I took

593
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: the leap and I went through a tree. I landed

594
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: and got up started running. This all this is all

595
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: factual stuff. I mean, we have. When we wrote my book,

596
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: I put a whole big thing about how we went

597
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: to all these locations and asked other people's eyewitness accounts

598
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: to these and so most of that story that's in

599
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: my book about that breaking out of them in the

600
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: hospital isn't even my version. It's other people's versions.

601
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 2: That's crazy. Okay, So you're on the run, You're sixteen

602
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: and on the run, run and.

603
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: Then make it I pop up in Springfield, Illinois, home

604
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: of Abraham Lincoln, or everything about Abraham Lincoln at Springfield, Illinois,

605
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: and so I moved there and I just I'm trying

606
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: to stay loaks have the warrant, and I wound up

607
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: getting into a fight with some anti racist skinheads and

608
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: other people that we've seen in them all one days.

609
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: We've seen them, they've seen us. Now you got a

610
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: member at this time. I got a big swastika tattooed

611
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: on my neck already. I got that when I was fished.

612
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Okay.

613
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: So people kind of I mean, I'm not the biggest guy,

614
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: but I don't know. So these guys kind of ran

615
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: from us, and we wound up catching them in the

616
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: mall right outside, and you know, there's altercation, altercation, and

617
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: the police came and arrested us for it. And when

618
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: they arrested us, they found my warrants. At that time,

619
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: they didn't charge me as an adult or a child,

620
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: a juvenile or adult. Yet they've brought me in and

621
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: I'm like waiting in this holding cell and they they

622
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: find the warrant or something, and they called back to

623
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: Philly and they were like, hey, we got this guy,

624
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: and they're like, what it's a juvenile warrant, Like, we're

625
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: not going to send him for a mile four of

626
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: the states away for freaking juvenile and a strong arm

627
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, it was not a strong arm robbery. It

628
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: was just an assault and battery, I think, with intent to

629
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: rob or something like that. So anyway, they're like, we're

630
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: not gonna We're not gonna send the way. They're like, woy,

631
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: don't you guys just take care of them, you know,

632
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: like charge them up whatever, And they dropped the warrants

633
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: on me, or dropped the whatever it had for me,

634
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: they dropped it. So the police in Illinois wound up

635
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: dropping that case on me and they let me out

636
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: of jail like the next day and they're like, oh,

637
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: by the way, you don't have any more warrant for

638
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: your arrest. So because of this one little fight, I

639
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: got out of something I've been running from for about

640
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: a year because it was one little fucking and then

641
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 1: I go crazy, and then I start recruiting like crazy.

642
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,959
Speaker 1: I'm out there like I'd go back to who I was,

643
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: Like I was doing in Philly and Philly I was

644
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: a big recruiter. I was always getting people to the movement,

645
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: always getting people to do things. Even I was like fifteen,

646
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: I was running like nineteen year old dudes. No lie,

647
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: I know. So I got out to Springfield. Now, I

648
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: just we got a TV show on cable access, which

649
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: was the big thing back then. We got like a

650
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: racist Wayne's World, going tell.

651
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: Us about the show? What like Racist Wayne's World is

652
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: a pretty clear description, but can you like what would

653
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: would you have guests on? Like what was it?

654
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: Yeah? We had we'd have guests. We had our own

655
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: people dress up like Hicks and sing songs and we

656
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: make fun of the KKK because we didn't like them

657
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: anymore because they were like their old school were new

658
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: school at them, and we used to like do like

659
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: songs and skits and tell jokes. I mean we didn't.

660
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: It wasn't because there was other neo Nazi shows out

661
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: at the time, but they were so boring. So I'm

662
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: doing all this recruiting like crazy out of the high

663
00:31:55,080 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: schools there, like recruiting like crazy. Then newspaper article does news,

664
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: does a couple of articles on me, and does a couple,

665
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: you know, television pieces on these new neo Nazi group.

666
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: With the TV show, Everyone's intrigued. I'm recruiting like crazy,

667
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: But I tell you I'm a broken human being. I'm

668
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: an egomaniac. With no self esteem, who was a complete

669
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: alcoholic by the time I was fifteen or sixteen. By way,

670
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: it's hard to put that all in the mix, but

671
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: which from my neighborhood of being an Irish Catholic kid

672
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: goes par with the course. Sorry. So I'm an alcoholic,

673
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: neo Nazi leader sixteen seventeen with a huge alcohol problem,

674
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: a huge ego problem, and no self esteem whatsoever. So

675
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: I'm like a very dangerous human being, right. And it's

676
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: not because I'm so tough that I mean I'm dangerous.

677
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: I just mean I'm dangerous because I'm broken, Like I'm

678
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: homicidal or suicidal, right, whatever way to wind blows that day. Right.

679
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: And So a guy was one of these anti racist,

680
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: skinhead ANTIFA type guys was around in Springfield, and my

681
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: friends were kind of cool with him, and I wasn't

682
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: real that. I mean, it was kind of cool with him,

683
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: but I wasn't that cool with him because he was

684
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: our enemy and they just hadn't had that taught to

685
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: them yet in Springfield, Like, yo, these guys are real,

686
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: real enemies. Like it's cool, he's kind of pale around

687
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: each other. But on the East Coast we're brawling with

688
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: each other as two groups, you know. So let's stick

689
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: to the game here, right, And I called that guy

690
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: up and told him to come over for Skinhead Christmas

691
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: party on Christmas Eve, and he showed up and we

692
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: kidnapped him and we violently beat him and uh tortured

693
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: him and asked for a ransom and we never got

694
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: no ransom for him. Just uh didn't work out. So

695
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: there's rules. There's rules when you uh, you know, to

696
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: do the kidnapping thing, you know, within two two hours,

697
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: you gotta have that you gotta have that ransom money

698
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: you got. If you don't have it, man, you got

699
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: dramatically change the price and you know, hopefully to meet you.

700
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: And then after four hours you gotta you know, get

701
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: rid of the person, either let him go or get

702
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: rid of them, right, that's kind of the game. I

703
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: never you know, I'm not saying I just I just

704
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 1: know the rules of the game. And we couldn't get anything.

705
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: So Christmas morning, we decided it was be a happy

706
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: Holidays if we let him go. So we let him

707
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: go and he went to the hospital. He had get

708
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: some stitches and stuff, and he obviously tells the police

709
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: about who did this to him. Obviously, the police in

710
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: spring photo ALLINOI do not like me very much. I'm

711
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: this guy, just so you know, on top of my

712
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: head up here it says made in Philly. He just

713
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: can't see it was my hair, but I do have it.

714
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: It's a tattoo. It says made in Philly. So they

715
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: know I'm not a local kid. They know I'm a

716
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: huge troublemaker from outside of the town coming there, starting

717
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 1: all this trouble, and they couldn't wait to get their

718
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: hands on me, so they arrested me. At the next

719
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: taping in my TV show. I knew, I knew the

720
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: cameraman looked different and maybe he's the ATF codes. I

721
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: don't know. So they got me and they charged me

722
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: as an adult, and they were not playing with me

723
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: no more. They gave me a charge of bag ready

724
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,240
Speaker 1: kidnapping or aggravated onlawfil restraint and charged me as an adult.

725
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 2: What was your sentence? How much time?

726
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: I get? Well up getting a three to five year sentence?

727
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: And I had already done like seven months in the

728
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 1: county waiting my trial, so that when I got upstate,

729
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: I had to do under a year. About a year

730
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 1: or so okay. But because of my crime being so violent,

731
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: which it wasn't. I had a firearms, we had a

732
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: gun involved in it, I couldn't get a minimum of

733
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: medium security, which I thought I was. So I was

734
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: seventeen years old. Is the youngest kid in the prison.

735
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: For about two months. I was the youngest kid in

736
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: the prison. Wow. So until my kids showed up that

737
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: I knew from the county jail, who was a little

738
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: bit younger at meets, I was the youngest kid in

739
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 1: the county jail until he showed up in the county jail,

740
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: this black kid named g. And then he showed up

741
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: in the same state prison I did. After he he

742
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: arguing his case and he got there and he was

743
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: a younger kid. And then there was another younger kid

744
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: that came in later on.

745
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 2: But anyway, so you got to jail. What are the

746
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 2: dynamics like? Who tell us about it?

747
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: So I first get arrested. I had to do time

748
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: in a county jail, which is not like Mayberry doesn't

749
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 1: like this little white re cell. It's a huge downtown

750
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 1: building with like five stories, seven wings. I mean, it's

751
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: a huge county jail. They held federal inmates there everything,

752
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: So I get put in there. They put me in

753
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: the hole because of my age, and you know, they

754
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 1: knew I scaped from a mental hospital, so I wasn't

755
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: going to get played somewhere easy, right. They'd heard from

756
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: other people that I broke out of a mental hospital,

757
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: and they'd heard about it anyway, So they put me

758
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 1: in the hole and I sat in there for about

759
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: four or five months and went crazy. I mean, you

760
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: don't get to talk to no one. You get to

761
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: use the phone maybe once twice a week, if that

762
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: the phone's outside your cell. You get to use the

763
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: shower once or twice a week. Other than that, you're

764
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: fed in your cell and you have no TV, no nothing.

765
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: You're you know, because they're afraid you you'll hang yourself

766
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: with the cord. You can't have anything. And I was

767
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 1: in there and read a lot of books, read a lot,

768
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: read a lot of religious stuff, started reading the Bible

769
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: on my own, started praying to God a little bit

770
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: more or on my own, not playing for a race war. Well,

771
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe take that back. When I first started

772
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,919
Speaker 1: praying to God, I was insane. So I would pray

773
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: to God and say, yo, God, if you you know

774
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: if I do this, will you kill all the guards

775
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: and pop my door and knock down the wall let

776
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: me go home? Will you do that for me? All right?

777
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: God ready, and I'll do a countdown and all this stuff. Right.

778
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: And so I one day got the reading in the book,

779
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: and the big big book about I think it's John

780
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: the Baptist starts to He goes to one of the

781
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: angels and says, why is Jesus not recognizing me? And

782
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 1: I'm not any preaching any religion, just talk about God.

783
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: But John the Baptists, why is God? Why is Jesus

784
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 1: not come to recognize me yet here at this prison?

785
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: And God tells him, or that the Word tells him

786
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: through the angels whatever, that he should fast. But do

787
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: not brag or boast that you are fasting because you

788
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: are fasting going around town ear when you're fasting for

789
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: God is defeats the purpose. You can't do that. So

790
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: he goes it's just like praying being the and it

791
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: prays on a street corner like like you're just the asshole.

792
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: So so I read that in the book and I

793
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, I'm gonna fast. I'm not

794
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: going to eat for a couple of days, but I'm

795
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: not going to tell the guards because they would slide

796
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: open up my food tray and food slide my food

797
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: through when I would just slide the food right back out,

798
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 1: or I would close the food tray, and they would

799
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: always say you're refusing to eat, and I say yeah,

800
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: and I say why, and I said, I can't tell you.

801
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: I felt like saying, you better be prepared because some

802
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: shit's going down this weekend. After I get done this fast,

803
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: you know, you're all dead out of here, I want

804
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: to lunch, but I just uh, I just said I

805
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: can't tell you, and he said all right. So after

806
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: three days, the warning comes in and says why are

807
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: you not eating? Posing out of myself says why are

808
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 1: you're not eating? And I said, I can't tell you.

809
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: He goes, You're not trying to harm yourself or kill yourself,

810
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: are you, And I'm like no, no, not at all.

811
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: He's like, okay, well, he goes about this, mister mank tomorrow,

812
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 1: I'm going to come and if you eat your breakfast

813
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: in the morning so I know you're not trying to

814
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: hurt yourself, I'll put you in general population. And I

815
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: was already planned on eating the next day, so let

816
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: me tell you that, all right, But I made the

817
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: warden seem like I was like, sure warning for you. Absolutely,

818
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: I'll eat tomorrow for you, buddy. So I was gonna

819
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: eat anyway, But I did. And the morning I woke

820
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,439
Speaker 1: up and I ate, and the warden walked me out

821
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: to that the cell block. And this is one of

822
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: the defining moments in my life because in that walk

823
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: from my old cell block to where I had no freedom,

824
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: locked down twenty four hour, I mean no, they had

825
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: no twenty four no twenty three in one rule yet,

826
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: so you know, it's in my cell all the time.

827
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: When I was on that walk to the new cell block,

828
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: there was this feeling that came over to me that

829
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: God isn't going to give me what I want, but

830
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: it'll give me what I need. And in that moment,

831
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 1: because I had started talking to myself in that cell block,

832
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you're locked up all the I mean I

833
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: literally had conversations with myself. And then when catch myself

834
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: and go, oh my god, I'm talking to myself. That's

835
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 1: how crazy it was.

836
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 2: Getting in there makes sense.

837
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: So I get and put in general population and I

838
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: meet up with this kid G, this black kid G.

839
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: And this is where kind of American history X kind

840
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: of kicks in a little bit for people. This this

841
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 1: is all true, is my people. This is what happened.

842
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: It's my story. This kid Gee was this young black kid,

843
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: shorter than me. So I remember that he was from

844
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: all on me. He was also younger than me. And

845
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:12,959
Speaker 1: one day he came over when he started talking about

846
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: playing spades in the card game, and he's like, you

847
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: know how to play? And I was like, no, We're

848
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: sitting at a table by ourselves, just and it's in

849
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: a big day room. It's not like you know, it's

850
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 1: just it's a county jail cell block. And so anyway,

851
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: he starts talking to me one day and he starts

852
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: showing me how to play spades, and he starts showing

853
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 1: me about how to cheat and play, and and he's like, yo,

854
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: let's go play these guys. Let's go playing for Peanu

855
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: Butter and Jellies. And I was like, all right, I

856
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: love Peen Butter, and Jelly was like all right, let's

857
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: do it. And we went and we cheated and we

858
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: played and we won. And then the next day we

859
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: did the same thing. And anytime there would be new

860
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: guys come on the cell block, you thought they were

861
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: great spade and they come and we were like, you know,

862
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: here's this neo Nazi. It's like white white white man

863
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: can't jump. Like, here's this black kid. It drug the

864
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: young black kid in this white neo Nazi kid. We were like, hey,

865
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 1: we'll play using the spades, Like yeah, sure, and you're playing.

866
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 1: We cheat all time. So I wound up getting sentenced.

867
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: They have a videotape. We videotaped the kidnapping and the

868
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 1: torturing and they'll have that on as evidence. I'm not

869
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: too bright. And when I get sent up state prison,

870
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: I get sent the maximum security prison like they're not

871
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: playing with me. And the first prison I get put

872
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: up when but the second prison I had to go

873
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 1: to is where John Wayne Gacy was you still alive

874
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: at the time, Wow? On death row. That's where I was.

875
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: And I and I seen him once from Afar. I

876
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: mean I was never near him. You know he's on

877
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: death row. And if you if I was, I would

878
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: I would have to kill him. Like because as soon

879
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: as I get into the prison, I'm automatically part of

880
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 1: the white gangs, like, I mean, because of my ranking

881
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: on the outside, I might I might pick. I swear

882
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: to you. I mean it's I had a TV show,

883
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: I had a big swaster, go my neck, I had

884
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: my pick. I just kind of hung out my Aryan

885
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: Nations and the bikers. And there's the Aryan Brotherhood and

886
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: they were part of our crew too. I mean we

887
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: did everything with them too. But I wasn't like Aryan

888
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 1: Brotherhood member. I was just an Aryan Nation member and

889
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: I hung out with the bikers, and that's who our

890
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 1: gang was in there.

891
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 2: So there are multiple, multiple white supremacists groups.

892
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well so in the Apartment of Illinois, the Illinois

893
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: Department of Corrections, I'm sorry, everyone kind of falls under

894
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 1: what they call the biker gang, all right, So it's

895
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 1: just all biker gangs that come in. They all ride together.

896
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: Like you may be a Mongrel and a hous Angel,

897
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, you'll ride together. So everyone, no matter

898
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: if you're a bike or not, you ride under this

899
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 1: biker flag. And that's one big gang. And then the

900
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: Aryans kind of are all intertwined in that gang. Some

901
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: are Arian Nations, some are Aryan Aryan Brotherhood. And then

902
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: there's like North Siders, which is a big white gang,

903
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: but they're not like white Supremacists. They're kind of just

904
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,439
Speaker 1: a white gang that kind of runs alongside of us.

905
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: Then there's another gang called the Gay Lords, which aren't gay.

906
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: They're not gay. There's called the gay Lords because it's

907
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: an old gang name, and they kind of run with

908
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: the black gangs, but they're white and they still and

909
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: they mingle with us too. Then there's another white gang

910
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: called the Simon City Royals, and they also run with

911
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: black gangs, but they also well we we didn't really

912
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 1: mess around with Simon City Royals. Like if you were

913
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: Simon City Royal, you usually our enemy back then. So

914
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:07,439
Speaker 1: that's how kind of got broken down.

915
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 2: Wow, it's such interesting dynamics.

916
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 3: So wait, why would you have to kill John Wayne

917
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 3: Gacy if you saw him?

918
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: Just is that like, yeah, he has he had a

919
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 1: hit out on his head because he because since he

920
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 1: messed with since he messed with kids. Anybody to messages

921
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 1: with kids has a hit on her head anyway. So

922
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: even though his were like sixteen, seventeen ninety, you know

923
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 1: up to nineteen year old boys, there was just a

924
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: massive you know, if anyone got a chance, you are,

925
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: you are to take him out. And I knew that.

926
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,280
Speaker 1: I knew that before I even got to that prison.

927
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: That like, yes, if we see him, like you don't

928
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: ever see him, guy who's always in his own cell

929
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: and his death row, and it's really hard to get there.

930
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: So so that's why I mean, for all the inmates

931
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: and all the people that want to hate, even the arians,

932
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: and you know, there is there is morals and there

933
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: is codes in there, and you know, messing around with

934
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: children or rape, any of that stuff is very looked,

935
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 1: very down upon and makes you a potential victim at

936
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 1: all time in prison. Me and this is the other thing,

937
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: Me going to prison for kidnapping one of my rivals

938
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: is like like you can't besides being a cop killer,

939
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: you can't be any higher in They're like pecking form

940
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: of crimes to go to jail for. I kidnapped my

941
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,919
Speaker 1: rival and you know, so I had some clout in there.

942
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 2: So what if you know you're this racist, you're living

943
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 2: in this racist ideology.

944
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 3: You believe it.

945
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:33,800
Speaker 2: So why do you feel comfortable playing games with the

946
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 2: black kid.

947
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: Because the white dude sucked? They did it like it

948
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: was a bunch of bikers. When you played basketball with

949
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,760
Speaker 1: a bunch of bikers, like the old Chris Rock thing said,

950
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: you got to let double dribbling go, you got to

951
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: let traveling go when you play basketball with bikers, Like

952
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just a brick city all day long. Right,

953
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: I knew how to play basketball. I grew up in Philly, Right,

954
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: I knew how to play football. I mean I was

955
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: a very well known little white wide receiver even growing

956
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: up before I got into the neo Nazis. So when

957
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 1: I started playing football with somebody, I played football with

958
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: the bikers and they were kind of fun. They like

959
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,240
Speaker 1: to tackle and getting the mud, you know, their bikers.

960
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: But they didn't like have any real structures to the game.

961
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: And there's no rules, just Neanderthal caveman and stuff. So

962
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: when I seen some of the black guys were playing

963
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: and it was like a neutral day in the yard,

964
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: and I seen never like lined up in formation, and

965
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: again there's it's tackle, but there's no pads or equipment.

966
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: It's just you know, just guys playing in the clothes.

967
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 1: You know. I just seen them playing one day and

968
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: I in g and this other kid, Tony I was

969
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 1: cool with. There was the quarterback. Actually, I was cool

970
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: with Tony just from being on my same cell block

971
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: all the time. I played dominoes with him. So again,

972
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: there's no race war going on, so people don't mind

973
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: if you're a white guy playing with black guys. Like

974
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: there was no race war or anything at the prison

975
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: at the time. It was kind of copaestic at the time.

976
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: A race war. It just happened right before I got there.

977
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: So everyone's kind of cool right now. So like when

978
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: I seen them guys playing football one day, I just

979
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 1: was like I could, like, yeah, every white boy says that.

980
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: And then they let me do a kickoff returns. It's

981
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 1: my first job, and I knew not everybody was going

982
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: to block for me, and not everyone on that team

983
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: liked me. You know, I still in the Nazi what

984
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,919
Speaker 1: it's washtick on my neck right And and I broke

985
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: the first the first kickoff return for a touch and

986
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: for a touch back. I got a touch and I

987
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 1: took it all the way.

988
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 2: I don't know what sports mean, but that sounds like

989
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 2: a good thing.

990
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I got a touchdown. I ran,

991
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: I got the ball on a kickoff return, ran up

992
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: the field and turned on the Jets and I did

993
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 1: a sick little spin move and I was just going

994
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 1: and these guys seeing that, like wow, like this guy

995
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: knows how to play. I knew how to rotate the ball,

996
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: I knew how to do all these other things. So anyway,

997
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: I just got good at playing ball and I showed

998
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: up every time I could. Same thing when I played basketball,

999
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: and they were guys were just cool with me, and

1000
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: the white guys that were part of my gang. They

1001
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: knew that I had way more knowledge about the movement

1002
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: than they did, so they never questioned me. You know.

1003
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: I mean I would go in and start talking about

1004
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: the Jews. These are all bikers who just hate black

1005
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 1: people where they hate Mexicans, and I'm coming in, I'm

1006
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 1: preaching about the Jews and you know, you know Leif

1007
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: Erickson and whatever else. Goddamn shit, I pull out of

1008
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: my ass that day. So so they never thought I

1009
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: was changing, and I didn't think I was changing neither.

1010
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: I was just being a seventeen year old about to

1011
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: be eighteen year old soon to be father who's doing time,

1012
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 1: like hard, hard time.

1013
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 2: Soon to be father.

1014
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had a daughter on the way.

1015
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

1016
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. The whole time I'm in prison. I have a

1017
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: daughter on the way, and then she was born and

1018
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: I got when I got out, she was six months old.

1019
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: When when my daughter was born A great example. When

1020
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 1: my daughter was born, I went and I was gonna

1021
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: walk on the cell box and I was gonna yell

1022
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: up to some of my aryans like yo, I have

1023
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: my kid, blah blah blah. And I didn't like I

1024
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: seem and because I just didn't want them to be like, oh,

1025
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: now your girl's gonna lose that baby, wait, cheat on you,

1026
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 1: because that's what dang say to each other, you know

1027
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: what I mean, like the fuck. And I just didn't

1028
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: want to hear any of that and stuff that day

1029
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 1: from the bikers. So I turned to my friend g

1030
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: and Jella were walking by me, and I was like, yo, guys,

1031
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: and they were walking in jell O cell and I said, Joe,

1032
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: I come in and whatever I get. They're sitting in

1033
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: their selling now. These kids I see every day, joke

1034
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 1: with every day, play football with sometimes whatever, just were

1035
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: cool with each other. And I said, yo, I had

1036
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: my kid. Because they I had told them guys playing

1037
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: football when I was playing football, when I was playing

1038
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 1: basketball with them, when we walked back. I always we'd

1039
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 1: always talk about our personal lives together, and they knew

1040
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 1: that I had a kid on the way. So when

1041
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: I said to them, you have a kid, they were

1042
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: all like, oh, that's what's up because they'd known that

1043
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: I've been talking about my girl about that the baby.

1044
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: So they're like, that's what's up. And you know what

1045
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: she look like. And and so the first people I

1046
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: told him when my firstborn was born was was black people.

1047
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 3: Did you notice that that was odd at the time.

1048
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: Well, it was funny though, because it wasn't like they

1049
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: were just I was just so kind of cool with

1050
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 1: them guys, Like I mean, they weren't like my best

1051
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: best friends. But there were definitely people that if we

1052
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: were sitting around and would say it was count and

1053
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: we were in the chow hall, and like when they

1054
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: say say count time, that means wherever you are, you

1055
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: got to just sit down until they count. Every inmate.

1056
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: They do it like three or four times a day,

1057
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: five times a day, I mean, like and if you

1058
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: were like standing in chow hall, wait and then they

1059
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: was like count. Knew you were gonna sit down for

1060
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,760
Speaker 1: about fifteen to twenty minutes until they counted the whole prison,

1061
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: and I would I remember there was times when I

1062
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 1: would see g sit down and I would head up

1063
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: and go sit by him, like in the chow hall

1064
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: waiting for Count Toghet, just because I knew that we

1065
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: would sit there and we would make each other laugh

1066
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: and we'd alway bullshit with each other. I mean, he

1067
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: was super funny. Like he was like a short little

1068
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: Kevin Hart, kind of like go By, So he was

1069
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: like super funny. He always made fun of everybody, even

1070
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: though everyone wore the same clothes in their he would

1071
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,240
Speaker 1: bust on you for how you wear your clothes, wh'sid

1072
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: and oh my god. He was so funny, So of

1073
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 1: course I wanted to sit next to him. You know.

1074
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: You know, I was cool with a lot of the

1075
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: Mexican guys just because I played soccer sometimes it's another sport.

1076
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: I would go out and play once in a while

1077
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: and then play. It was always the Latino guys that

1078
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: all played soccer, and I played defense. And the chief

1079
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: of the gang, the chief of the big Mexican gang,

1080
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: was the goalie and I was his defenseman. And he

1081
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: like love me because I dive everywhere ball hit the

1082
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 1: ball out of the out of play if they were

1083
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: going to score. I mean this, he's always, you know,

1084
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 1: always called me crazying, going it's cool. So when I'm

1085
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,320
Speaker 1: getting released from prison, I'm going to go back to

1086
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 1: being a neo Nazi. I didn't change it there. This

1087
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 1: is an American strets. I didn't change in prison. I

1088
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,479
Speaker 1: did feel I was changing. I thought, yeah, it's cool,

1089
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: I'm getting along in prison, I'm doing it. But when

1090
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: I got out of prison, it just it just wasn't

1091
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 1: jelling right. I mean, I was trying to be a

1092
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 1: dad and that wasn't working. I'm a convicted felon. Was

1093
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 1: washt on my neck or Mom's not really feeling it anymore,

1094
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 1: broken up with me and had every right to break

1095
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 1: out with me. I was a horrible boyfriend. So I

1096
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: moved back to Philly. And I got back to Philly.

1097
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 1: I moved got right back with all my neo Nazis.

1098
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,959
Speaker 1: That's all I knew, and I had my old crew back.

1099
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 1: But things just weren't jelling. I'm telling you. There was

1100
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: times where like there would be we'd be at a

1101
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: meeting or get together or a party and some guy

1102
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: would get up to make some speech and I know

1103
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: the guy who's like all my young recruits from years ago. Now,

1104
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: he gets up and he'd say stuff, and he would

1105
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 1: say things, I swear to you that he heard from me,

1106
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: you know, things that I used to say. And when

1107
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 1: you would get up and stand up and say these things,

1108
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: I would go, God, that's so stupid. Oh my god,

1109
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: that's so dumb. Like, you know, no, all black people

1110
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 1: ain't that way. Like, but I wouldn't say in the meeting,

1111
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not sitting here saying I stood up

1112
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: in front of the all groups like no. Just in

1113
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,280
Speaker 1: my head, I was like, that's little shit. So I

1114
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: started to make this turn in the fact that I

1115
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, I'm not gonna be real

1116
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: against black Asian Latino people like I can admit we're

1117
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: all equal. I was imprisoned a lot of those people.

1118
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: I got this, I said, but I'm still gonna hate

1119
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 1: the Jews because the Jews keep me part of this.

1120
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 1: If I could preach just against the Jews, I'm cool.

1121
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 1: I still get the BNE and I get to keep

1122
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 1: my clout. I got tons of pull in that movement

1123
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: at the time for being a nineteen year old again,

1124
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 1: I just got home from prison for kidnapping one of

1125
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: our rivals. Again, I show up, I got clout. I'll

1126
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: tell you on the Jewish thing. When when I have

1127
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: a big swastik a tattooed on my neck, I got

1128
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,479
Speaker 1: all these tattoos on my head, I got skinhead written

1129
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,439
Speaker 1: across my knuckles. When you go fill out a job

1130
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: application and you have an aggravated kidnapping already on your

1131
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: record for life, these ain't good people skills. You know

1132
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 1: what I mean is HR isn't lining up to give

1133
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: me management positions. So a buddy of mine said he

1134
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,760
Speaker 1: can get me a job carrying in and out antique

1135
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: furniture at a at an antique show in Cherry Hill,

1136
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: New Jersey, for the weekend one hundred bucks a day.

1137
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: I said to my friend, who was also a neo

1138
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: Nazi at the time, I said, yeah, I'll take the job.

1139
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: And he goes. But I gotta tell you, dude, the

1140
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 1: guy that owns the company, he's a jew Like. He's like,

1141
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: he's like Jewish. I just said to him, I said, well,

1142
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: you told him. He goes. I told him all about you.

1143
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: I said, he don't care what I believe. And he said, Frank.

1144
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: Keith said this, his name is Keith Brookstein. He goes.

1145
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: Keith said this, you don't give a rats, ask what

1146
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: you believe this, don't break his fucking furniture. And I

1147
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: showed up and I worked for this guy, and at

1148
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,399
Speaker 1: the end of my three days he owed me three

1149
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 1: hundred dollars. I'd already got paid like six hundred dollars

1150
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 1: in tips because people tip you as to carry furniture

1151
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 1: to their cars. And I made like six hundred dollars

1152
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: and tips. So when this guy came up to my

1153
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: three hundred dollars, I thought it he was going to,

1154
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 1: you know, my anti Semitic, ignorant way, he was going

1155
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 1: to jew me. And he came up and he said

1156
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: how much I owe you on this Sunday? I said

1157
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: three hundred dollars. Dude like waiting to see if he's

1158
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: going to argue with me, you know, and he just

1159
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 1: pulled out this money and he was like one, two, three,

1160
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 1: here's three hundred. He's like, you know, here's an extra

1161
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:18,399
Speaker 1: hundred bucks. You're a really good worker. So I made

1162
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: one thousand dollars in that weekend, and know, you know,

1163
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 1: and there's something that we all do as human beings

1164
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: because we ain't too all far from each other. I

1165
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:28,399
Speaker 1: might have been in the a Nazi, but we all

1166
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 1: have resentments. We all have those grudges, and you know,

1167
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 1: just on yourselves, you think about it. There's times where

1168
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: you were going to go to work and yesterday Nancy

1169
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: said something that really pissed you off, and Nancy's been

1170
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 1: in your head. You can't wait tomorrow. You know what

1171
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 1: she says, that same stuff. You're gonna argue with her.

1172
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: You're gonna come back at her. You plot the whole

1173
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: argument you practice in the mi era. You wake up

1174
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: in the middle of night thinking about Nancy. You go

1175
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: to work, can't wait to see Nancy today. It's probab

1176
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 1: gonna wear it as stupid Dalla's Calvin stuff, all right.

1177
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: You think about Nancy, you go and then you get

1178
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 1: to work and you see Nancy and you're like, what's up, Nancy,

1179
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 1: And Nancy's like, now, what's going on? You're like nothing,

1180
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: It's all good because we loved that part of having

1181
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 1: the resentment of telling Nancy off in our head. Well,

1182
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 1: I could did that with this Jewish dude. I can't

1183
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: wait to tell this dude off he's going to try

1184
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 1: and rip me off. He's going to try and Julie

1185
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 1: and here he is nothing of the sorts. So and

1186
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 1: then he gave me a ride home and he says, Yo,

1187
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: what do you do for a living? I went into

1188
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: the splotstick on my neck and I said, I don't

1189
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: do anything. Man. He goes, well, why don't you come

1190
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 1: work for me? And I went and I worked for

1191
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 1: this man and my other neo nazi if I worked

1192
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 1: for him too, wow, And Keith like he didn't take

1193
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: too much time with my other friend, but with me.

1194
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: Whenever he had to go pick up furniture, he always

1195
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 1: but Frank, get in truckle me to go get this furniture.

1196
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 1: And it'd be like in North Jersey somewhere. We'd be

1197
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 1: like two hours on the road. You'd be, hey, Frank,

1198
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: I gotta to pick up the starning room set so

1199
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: we could get it back to the warehouse and get

1200
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 1: it refinished, get it in the storefronts. I mean, the

1201
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 1: dude had a business, a big business of redoing antiques.

1202
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 1: And I jump in the truck and we get the

1203
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: Philly paper and I read the what's going on in

1204
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:57,319
Speaker 1: the O. J. Simpson trial at the time. I read

1205
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,399
Speaker 1: it to him and we talk and we talk about

1206
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: life and trial and race, and we just had great

1207
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: conversations all the time, and I started to enjoy these rides.

1208
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: And this guy was not religiously Jewish, but Keith. He

1209
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,359
Speaker 1: would always go, well, hey, I mean upper East Coast

1210
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,359
Speaker 1: Jewish hardcore, you know, and we would just always talk.

1211
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 1: And I did this one thing and which led to

1212
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: me knowing It's one of the things that I know

1213
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:25,439
Speaker 1: that makes me an alcoholic is I always think less

1214
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: of myself, you know. I know a lot of people

1215
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 1: do that, but I think about myself too much, and

1216
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: I think too less of myself, you know. And so

1217
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: whenever I would make a mistake, and I'd always go, oh, Keith,

1218
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: I'm so stupid, you know. And I didn't say like

1219
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: I'm stupid, you know, like a like a skinny girl

1220
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 1: will say, oh my god, I'm fat. So everyone goes,

1221
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:44,439
Speaker 1: oh my god, Michelle, you're not fad Like. I didn't

1222
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 1: say I'm stupid because I wanted people to say you're

1223
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 1: not stupid. I just said it all the time, like

1224
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 1: I messed up, Oh I'm so stupid. And so one

1225
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 1: day I broke something and Keith. I was like, oh, Keith,

1226
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: I'm so stupid. And he came over and he just

1227
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: gripped me up and he goes, stop saying you're stupid,

1228
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 1: you're fucking idiots. Go and I cleaned up this dess

1229
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: I made and we got in the truck and I

1230
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 1: went from the fire me because it was a marbletop

1231
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 1: table I broke. It was expensive, and he just unloaded

1232
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: on me. He started telling me about times when he's like,

1233
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: remember when you said this, I remember when you figured

1234
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 1: this out, Like that's that's smart, Frank, that's you can't

1235
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: pay for that education you got. And I just remember

1236
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: listening to him and just being like so grateful to

1237
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: have this human being in my life, with this swashed

1238
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 1: to get blazing at him every day in the truck.

1239
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:29,839
Speaker 1: That day Keith goes to drop me off, I saw

1240
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: a shaved head. I still wear my neo Nazi boots

1241
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: every day did this guy's work. And that was the

1242
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 1: day when he was talking to me and talking to

1243
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 1: me about how smart I was and just showing me

1244
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 1: genuine love and concern and also called me a fucking

1245
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: idiot when he did that, Like I was so embarrassed

1246
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: at those boots on my feet that day, Like I

1247
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 1: just felt it. And there had already been a couple

1248
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:51,880
Speaker 1: of times now I've been kind of embarrassed about the

1249
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: beliefs I told you about. People would say things I'd go, oh,

1250
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 1: that's so stupid. This time it was on me. Like

1251
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 1: I just was so embarrassed that day that I still

1252
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 1: am continuously trying to believe these beliefs, even though God

1253
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 1: has continuously proven me wrong and science has proven me wrong.

1254
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 1: I'm reading about the stuff with DNA, about how we

1255
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: are human beings. I'm wrong. There's just like all these

1256
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: things that are happening that are just like, you're wrong, Frank,

1257
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 1: You're fucking wrong. And I just got so tired of

1258
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 1: banging my head against the wall to believe something that

1259
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 1: I knew at the end was not right. And I

1260
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: would have given my life. I would have been a

1261
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: Timothy McVay, no doubt. When I was in the movement,

1262
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 1: I was that guy. And then the Oklahoma City bombing happens. Now,

1263
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 1: I don't know Timothy McVay at the time. I use

1264
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 1: him as a reference now, which but I didn't know

1265
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 1: Timothy mcveig. I got out of the Neo Nazis for

1266
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: about eight months. The Oklahoma City bombing happened, and I've

1267
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: seen that picture of that dead little girl in that

1268
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 1: fireman's arms, and I had already been out of the

1269
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 1: Neo Nazis, like I said, maybe eight months at the time,

1270
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 1: and it just killed me, just ate me up all

1271
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 1: the time. Every time I thought about what was going

1272
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 1: on at that time. Member Okahoma's did about me. Happened

1273
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: that day, so everyone's thinking about everyone's talking about it.

1274
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: It happened, I think on a Thursday, and by Sunday

1275
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 1: I was so gut wrenching, sick with myself. Were still

1276
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 1: having to swast it on my neck and not going

1277
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 1: out and saying that these beliefs are wrong, like I

1278
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: just been shut up about. I just said, I'm not

1279
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: going to talk about it. I'm just want to get

1280
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: out of that lifestyle and I talk about it. But

1281
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it anymore when I seen that, So

1282
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,439
Speaker 1: I went to the FBI told them my story never

1283
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 1: got one person put in prison. That's not was not

1284
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: my job. I just want there to go tell them,

1285
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: like you know, I was in and I got out

1286
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 1: and they knew all about me that files on me. No, lie,

1287
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: I mean, they knew all these cases of things that

1288
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: I supposedly had done, and they asked me honestly if

1289
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 1: I'd done things and if I had it, and then

1290
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: I said yes or no. I was honest with them,

1291
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: which is something they later on told me. That's why

1292
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: they asked me to start speaking with other groups, because

1293
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: they were like, you were just honest, right, So a

1294
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: bunch of people started asking me to come speak for them,

1295
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 1: some groups, some civil rights groups, some church groups, right,

1296
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,040
Speaker 1: And I was raw, like I had no idea, it

1297
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: was just up there, blah blah. My god. I don't

1298
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 1: remember what Kyl I used to say, but I remember

1299
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 1: I used to say, like, we used to do a

1300
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: lot of violent stuff, and I don't want that that

1301
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: been anymore. Basically, like what goes around comes around. Was

1302
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 1: basically like the hotel of my story back then, like

1303
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 1: that I had such a bad karma square, not a

1304
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 1: credit score, I had a karma score. It was so

1305
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 1: bad with God that I was like, I have to

1306
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 1: get this karma square back up. So I started just

1307
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: trying to do good things, and I noticed my life

1308
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 1: would change. And then I noticed I got to meet

1309
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 1: with the head of the Philadelphia Flyers and his son,

1310
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 1: and I said, hey, when I was in prison, I

1311
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 1: played sports, and they gave me twenty sets of equipment,

1312
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 1: and we started Harmony through Hockey where we went around

1313
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 1: the toughest in the toughest cities and recruited black kids

1314
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 1: and white kids, but we tried to be more towards

1315
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: black kids playing the game of hockey. And now it

1316
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: got turned into the Ed Sneyder Foundation and it's helped

1317
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 1: like ten thousand people. And I went on to go

1318
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: do that hockey program for three other NHL teams. I

1319
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 1: worked in pro hockey for a long time. I worked

1320
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 1: in the marketing capacity. I worked as a pr for

1321
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 1: the players. They had a great hockey career. From starting

1322
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 1: that job, I got Harmy through Hockey going and every

1323
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 1: year to this day when Harmony the Rockey hasn't happened

1324
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 1: since the pandemic and stuff, but every year I would

1325
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 1: get one or two at least one or two new

1326
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 1: kids into a league somewhere. You know, get donations, We

1327
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 1: just get the equipped. Didn't get them in the league

1328
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: and sign up and get from signed up anyway. But

1329
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: I also got really good at coaching. Obviously, I was

1330
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 1: good at running street gangs, and I got really good

1331
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 1: at coaching to where I was assistant coach for a

1332
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: major hockey program for a long time, and I was

1333
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 1: also a coach of another program for a long time,

1334
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:37,479
Speaker 1: and I won like twelve national championships as a hockey coach.

1335
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 2: Oh wow, cool.

1336
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,960
Speaker 1: So I did that for a bunch of years, and

1337
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 1: I kind of got kind of got away from the

1338
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 1: civil rights stuff as much as I wasn't like speaking out.

1339
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of there's so many formers now

1340
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 1: that are out like doing the same thing, and that's great.

1341
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: Like all of us running against this fence and trying

1342
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 1: to knock down this fence of racism is great. There's

1343
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: there should be hundreds and thousands of formers, and we

1344
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: all have stories and we all have our different things.

1345
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: And I used to do interventions on neo Nazis twenty

1346
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 1: years ago, and then I've done a couple over the years.

1347
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:10,919
Speaker 1: In twenty five years, I've probably done about twenty five

1348
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 1: of them, so maybe one a year. Well, I had

1349
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 1: a divorce a couple of years ago, relapsed in my divorce,

1350
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 1: then gotten sober and really came to terms. I came.

1351
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 1: I flew to Los Angeles. I met up with a

1352
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 1: man who I wanted to spiritually guide me through these

1353
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 1: dozen steps that I had to take to fix myself,

1354
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: and I found and I got with him, and then

1355
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 1: and in that time, I started to learn that this

1356
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: world isn't about me at all, that it's all about

1357
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 1: being of service to others at all of God's children,

1358
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 1: black white, it doesn't. And so twenty five years of

1359
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 1: me not being being against racism and preaching out against it,

1360
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: for I've done thousands of police crimes. I hate crimes,

1361
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 1: training for the police, so I'm involved it was and

1362
01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 1: involved with the police for a long time, like I helped, Yeah,

1363
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: I played hockey for I was so close with the police.

1364
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: I want to plan on an all cop hockey team

1365
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 1: for men's league for two years and then I even

1366
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 1: helped out in all their charity events. Was very much

1367
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 1: an ally and still would like to consider myself an

1368
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 1: ally of the police, but right now I don't want

1369
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 1: to do any speaking for them anymore until what needs

1370
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 1: to change in this country. And also I want to

1371
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 1: tell you that throughout them years that all this was

1372
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: going on, I was coaching hockey, getting very into hockey.

1373
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: I kept relapsing, you know, life, I felt like God,

1374
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 1: I wasn't doing what God wanted me to do. When

1375
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 1: I finally got sober and I realized what God wanted

1376
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 1: me to do, and that was to be of service

1377
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 1: to others and that's it, and not to think about myself.

1378
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: When this pandemic hit, I actually like co cooned myself

1379
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 1: in and I really dedicated myself to be getting more spiritual,

1380
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 1: to learning about the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and

1381
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 1: who wrote it and Madison and Hamilton all that. Like,

1382
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: I just was like really reading up on all this

1383
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: stuff during the pandemic. And then Beyonna Taylor got killed.

1384
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:04,440
Speaker 1: And now you guys remember Brianna Taylor was first She

1385
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 1: was before a mom of Arberry and before George Bloyd.

1386
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 1: Just her story was kind of kept quiet. That there

1387
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 1: was the shooting by the police in Louisville at a

1388
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 1: drug home and I heard about it maybe two days

1389
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 1: after it happened. I'm been real big on what the

1390
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 1: Fourth Amendment is, and so when they killed Brianna Taylor,

1391
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 1: that woke that same feeling that I had lost, maybe

1392
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: from the little girl from Oklahoma City bombing. It woke

1393
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: that same thing up at me that I had to

1394
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 1: be of service because that woman should not be dead.

1395
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 1: They shouldn't even have been in her home. Why are

1396
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 1: the police in this country during a pandemic serving up

1397
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,959
Speaker 1: drug warrants because they can't stop feeding the private print

1398
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 1: and the prison beast. And I knew this. I've been

1399
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 1: watching the Fourth Amendment audits for years and been very

1400
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 1: much involved because I knew neo Nazis who became cops,

1401
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:56,080
Speaker 1: and I was always trying to like let people know

1402
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 1: that there's a neo Nazi, and some of them got fired.

1403
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 1: Neo Nazis want to become cops because they know it's

1404
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 1: a racist job. You get to beat black people, you

1405
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 1: get to give them felonies so they can't you get

1406
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 1: a charge you with phonies, so they can't ever vote,

1407
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 1: or they can't ever own a gun. And I was

1408
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 1: in meetings back in the day where they talked about

1409
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 1: we should all become cops, we should all become military,

1410
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 1: and a bunch of my guys became cops. So I

1411
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 1: was like, we got to work against this. And one

1412
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 1: of the things that could stop all of us the

1413
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 1: training that officers get to search our cars has broken

1414
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 1: America and broken policing. If you see a broken taly,

1415
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: just give a person a ticket. But they're not trained

1416
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 1: to do that no more. They're trained to try to

1417
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 1: look to get you out of your car so they

1418
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 1: can violate your Fourth Amendment and search your car and

1419
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 1: try to look for a crime on you. So that

1420
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 1: leads to a lot of suburban cops doing that to

1421
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 1: black people all the time. Whenever they come through them

1422
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 1: in the neck of the woods, they find any reason

1423
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 1: to pull them over so they get searched their car.

1424
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 1: And I know people have huge thoughts about this, like,

1425
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 1: well then all the drug dealers are going to get

1426
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 1: away all to drug deal get away anyway for the

1427
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:04,439
Speaker 1: one you catch ers twenty other anyway. It just become

1428
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 1: a way of cops being able to bully and intimidate us.

1429
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 1: So for when we need to stop with that, one

1430
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:12,640
Speaker 1: of the really important things is if they can't search

1431
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 1: our cars no more and look for a reason, as

1432
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 1: they're not trained to look for them reasons anymore, it's

1433
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: going to add to officers safety, not take away from

1434
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 1: because now people are not going to have half a

1435
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: gram of coke in their car and think I'm going

1436
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 1: to shoot out with this cops. We don't have to

1437
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 1: go back to the massivecarceration system, right, so it's officer safety.

1438
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 1: It leads to officer safety. Our civil sermons should not

1439
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:35,920
Speaker 1: be above us, and they have changed the rules with

1440
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 1: a couple court hearings. We have to remember traffic stops

1441
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 1: are our main interaction with police in this country. It

1442
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 1: starts with giving us back our Fourth Amendment. Humanity stepped

1443
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 1: up and beat Donald Trump. I know there's seventy four

1444
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 1: million other people that voted for them, and I know

1445
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 1: we have to help change those people because they are

1446
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 1: American citizens too. But I want people to look and

1447
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 1: love this country. We can get the bad out by

1448
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 1: the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and we could

1449
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 1: do the same thing with policing. Go back to the

1450
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:08,640
Speaker 1: Bill of Rights, which is our Fourth Amendment, which was

1451
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 1: written specifically so the police where the government at hand

1452
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 1: cannot look for crimes on us. You see if you

1453
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:17,720
Speaker 1: go watch any of the Fourth Amendment or audits on

1454
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 1: the YouTube, it's a real problem and we can fix it.

1455
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 1: And the Trumper should even be on our side because

1456
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 1: it's a constitutional Bill of rights issue.

1457
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:27,919
Speaker 2: Totally totally. I'm always surprised that that that's the one

1458
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 2: that they've decided they don't care about.

1459
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 1: You're right, I know they love that Second Amendment.

1460
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1461
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 1: Look, for so long, white people in America have gotten

1462
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:41,400
Speaker 1: into the life raft of America, and we pulled the

1463
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 1: ladders out of the water so no one else can

1464
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:45,920
Speaker 1: get in with us. And the cops stand and guard

1465
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 1: those ladders of the life raft, right, and that is

1466
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:51,240
Speaker 1: the suburbs, and so the cops jobs is to protect

1467
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 1: those ladders. And I'm telling you this movement, this time,

1468
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 1: this people in America, we're done. We're moving the cops

1469
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:00,160
Speaker 1: and pushing the ladders back in the water to let

1470
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 1: all of us in. Because once we're all in this boat,

1471
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 1: there is enlightenment. There is enlightenment for all of us

1472
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 1: to be equal.

1473
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 2: Policing is such a complicated issue, and we could talk

1474
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 2: about it for hours, you know, so much. We could

1475
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 2: get into about having people who specialize in mental health

1476
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 2: who aren't being called instead of the police, or actually

1477
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 2: getting people help with their addiction instead of just sending them.

1478
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 2: Just such a complicated thing. But I really think it's

1479
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 2: so cool that you've taken this on and I feel like,

1480
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 2: I don't know, I really appreciate that this is your mission.

1481
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 2: Now I think it's really cool.

1482
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 1: That's all. Thank you, And and I got to give

1483
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 1: all credit to God. I used to have an old

1484
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 1: saying that I used to always go, I'm not much,

1485
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 1: but I'm all I think about. And I really I

1486
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 1: say that all the time. That was like my saying

1487
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:45,760
Speaker 1: not much, but I'm all I think about. And now

1488
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 1: I got to think that I'm not much, but I'm

1489
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: all God gave me. If I'm here to fight racism

1490
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 1: the way that I can, I'm going to do it well.

1491
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 3: My last question is what happened to g what happened

1492
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 3: to Keith? Are? Do you still keep in touch with them?

1493
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 1: Okay, so gee, I've never found Tony. We found a

1494
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 1: couple other guys because after my book came out, actually

1495
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:10,720
Speaker 1: a couple of them were in prison and then they

1496
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 1: got a hold of my publisher. I think GE's probably dead.

1497
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:16,720
Speaker 1: He was a man, He was a mouthing kid man.

1498
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 1: He ran his mouth. So I don't know Keith is

1499
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 1: still alive.

1500
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 5: There was actually a cool documentary about me and Keith

1501
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:27,720
Speaker 5: on YouTube that's all made and they brought me and

1502
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 5: Keith back together after like fifteen years, and then him

1503
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 5: at the furniture store and we had great conversation and

1504
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,680
Speaker 5: everything I just said, Keith will back up.

1505
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:37,639
Speaker 1: He's still a big Flyers fan just like I am.

1506
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 3: So we will definitely need to be hydrated before we

1507
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:44,439
Speaker 3: watch that on YouTube because crying will be rampant.

1508
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 1: Yep.

1509
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 2: So I just have one last question. What would you

1510
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 2: say to someone who maybe they have fallen into a

1511
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 2: neo Nazi ideology and they are questioning and they don't

1512
01:08:57,360 --> 01:09:01,720
Speaker 2: have anyone to turn to to valid they're questioning. Is

1513
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 2: there somewhere that people can go? Is there someone that

1514
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 2: can reach out to?

1515
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:09,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's a whole bunch of groups out there.

1516
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:12,599
Speaker 1: There's like Life after Hate, there's Free Radical. I mean

1517
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 1: there's like five different groups that do intervention type stuff now.

1518
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:19,559
Speaker 1: But really, if you're listening to me, I mean, I

1519
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:21,760
Speaker 1: don't want nothing from you but for your life to

1520
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 1: get better. So just get a hold of me on Twitter,

1521
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 1: get a hold of me on Facebook, and I will

1522
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 1: happily correspond with you. It's not about proving their old

1523
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:33,320
Speaker 1: beliefs wrong. It's just about showing that there's a better

1524
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:37,200
Speaker 1: life when you're not full of hate and anger and

1525
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 1: you know, ego, if you just let it go, and

1526
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:43,680
Speaker 1: if you have any belief in a higher power of

1527
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 1: God at all, you cannot be a racist. You can't

1528
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 1: because God, we are all God's children living a life

1529
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 1: of service to others and caring about other people's feelings.

1530
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 1: And what type of life do you want to live?

1531
01:09:58,360 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: You know? How do you want to be good towards

1532
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:01,679
Speaker 1: each other? Do you want to have a great life?

1533
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 1: America is a beautiful country and we are so amazing

1534
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 1: at the way that this has worked out to where

1535
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:10,599
Speaker 1: we are fixing ourselves during this pandemic that I think

1536
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 1: America's great things to come.

1537
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:15,920
Speaker 2: Amen, tell us the name of your book again, Frank yep.

1538
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 1: So, my book is autobiography of Recovering Skinhead. And I

1539
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 1: also work with a alle black owned business here in

1540
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. They are called Public Statement Apparel, and we

1541
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 1: put out shirts for allies, like there's a Lifetime Ally shirt.

1542
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:33,000
Speaker 1: There's a bunch of stuff and this is a black

1543
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 1: owned business. So it's the money for this type of

1544
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:37,760
Speaker 1: stuff is staying in the movement of people that we're

1545
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:39,880
Speaker 1: really trying to change. And so go look them up

1546
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 1: on Instagram. They're called Public Statement Apparel.

1547
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 2: Where can we find you on social media?

1548
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 1: Frank Mink Twitter or you can find autobiography of Recovering

1549
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:51,680
Speaker 1: Skinhead page on Facebook or on Instagram too. So my

1550
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 1: last name is spelt real weird member, it's m E

1551
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 1: I n K. I'm pretty not hard to find.

1552
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:00,080
Speaker 2: Awesome. Thank you so much, Frank, Thank.

1553
01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 1: You guys, thanks for having me, Thanks for taking the time.

1554
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 2: Okay, Wow, what an interview. What a guy. Uh Well,

1555
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:09,839
Speaker 2: it's come to that time of the evening. It's not evening,

1556
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:13,280
Speaker 2: it's come to that time of the episode when I

1557
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 2: ask you, Megan, I mean I obvious. Look, I know

1558
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:19,680
Speaker 2: you're not gonna become a white supremacist. I just know

1559
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 2: that about you. But do you think that if you

1560
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 2: were in his position, You're thirteen years old, coming from

1561
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:29,599
Speaker 2: a really rough childhood. Uh, do you think you would

1562
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:33,000
Speaker 2: be susceptible to this group of people that's telling you

1563
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:35,639
Speaker 2: totally that your matter.

1564
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:38,680
Speaker 3: When I was thirteen, I was really viciously bullied and

1565
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:41,040
Speaker 3: it was the worst time of my life, and I

1566
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 3: think it will be the worst time no matter what

1567
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 3: happens to me in the future. Just so terrifying. Was

1568
01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:49,960
Speaker 3: sick every night before I went to school. If there

1569
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 3: was a group of people who would be like, hey,

1570
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 3: you're cool, like we care about you, just don't like this.

1571
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:01,519
Speaker 3: It's not really in my nature to do that. But

1572
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:04,439
Speaker 3: I can't say one hundred percent that at a very

1573
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 3: super young age, I wouldn't at least pretend to so

1574
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:10,720
Speaker 3: I yeah, yeah, you know.

1575
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 2: I can't remember if I've said this on the show yet,

1576
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 2: but when I was thirteen, I was so desperate for

1577
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:27,840
Speaker 2: friends that I prayed to Satan. Okay, and mind you,

1578
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:30,679
Speaker 2: I'm like still technically fucking Mormon.

1579
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:31,720
Speaker 1: Wow.

1580
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 2: And I'd been praying to God for friends and God

1581
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 2: hadn't been delivering, delivering no, and I was so lonely. Dude,

1582
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:42,960
Speaker 2: I was so lonely, and I was It wasn't like

1583
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 2: nobody liked me, but I just was at this school

1584
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:48,240
Speaker 2: and nobody just really cared, Like I just didn't have

1585
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 2: a friend group. And I literally was like, all right, Satan,

1586
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 2: I will pledge my allegiance to you instead of God

1587
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 2: if you just give me some fucking friends. He didn't

1588
01:12:58,080 --> 01:12:58,760
Speaker 2: deliver either.

1589
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 3: Wow. That is it's really bad when you give your

1590
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:04,679
Speaker 3: soul to Satan. For friends, and you still can't get friends.

1591
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:10,640
Speaker 2: Eventually, I made some friends. Maybe we have Satan to

1592
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 2: thank for that. I don't know. God. The point of

1593
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:17,640
Speaker 2: this story is that when you're that desperate for community,

1594
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:19,800
Speaker 2: at that young of an age, especially, you go to

1595
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 2: more desperate lengths than people really feel comfortable admitting to.

1596
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:26,840
Speaker 2: I think, to feel like they belong somewhere. And I

1597
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 2: think it would be ignorant to claim that any one

1598
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:30,759
Speaker 2: of us is just so inherently good that we're exempt

1599
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:34,960
Speaker 2: from that. You know, well, obviously we need to take

1600
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:39,760
Speaker 2: this opportunity to say that black lives matter. And yeah, yeah,

1601
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:43,800
Speaker 2: we're just like trying to show that ideology can happen

1602
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 2: to anyone, no matter how bad or extreme, if somebody

1603
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:49,800
Speaker 2: is in the like perfect moment in their life where

1604
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 2: they're vulnerable.

1605
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, just kind of looking at how we can stop

1606
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:53,599
Speaker 3: it happening.

1607
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:57,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think Frank's doing done some

1608
01:13:57,800 --> 01:13:58,920
Speaker 2: really great work, and there are a lot of great

1609
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 2: organizations out there. I think it's important to look at

1610
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:05,320
Speaker 2: stories like this honestly and try to learn from them

1611
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:08,200
Speaker 2: and try to view them like antibodies of sorts.

1612
01:14:08,360 --> 01:14:12,559
Speaker 3: You know, that's all, Well, follow Frank follow us. What's

1613
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:15,800
Speaker 3: your Twitter and Instagram and all that? For you to

1614
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 3: have some friends.

1615
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:24,000
Speaker 2: Please, I'm so lonely. My Instagram is Ulalola oh h

1616
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 2: l A l O l A and Twitter is oh

1617
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:28,560
Speaker 2: l lola with one oh oh h l A l

1618
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:28,960
Speaker 2: O l A.

1619
01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 3: Got it? Mine is ypira Bitch on Instagram.

1620
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 1: We have a.

1621
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:37,000
Speaker 2: Website now, so check us out at trustmepod dot com.

1622
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:40,679
Speaker 3: Share with your friends. Thank you guys so much for listening.

1623
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:44,200
Speaker 3: Remember this week to follow your gut, watch out for

1624
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 3: red flax, and never ever trust me.

1625
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 1: He