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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast am on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: George Nori with you along with Matthew Pellamary, Matthew, you

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Speaker 2: were going to talk about a story about what's it

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Speaker 2: like right before one dies?

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Speaker 3: Go ahead, Yeah, this is wild. So back in the

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Speaker 3: late nineties I went to these Antiobotani seminars in the

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Speaker 3: Maya Ruins, a bush model in Polanca, and a number

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Speaker 3: of people were there, Terrence mckenner and a bunch of

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Speaker 3: other people, and a friend of mine, Jacques Olivier lives

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Speaker 3: up on Orchest Island, now found out about this substance

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Speaker 3: called five neo d MT. It's five myth foxy dimethyl

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Speaker 3: trip to mean. It's highly psychoactive. And you hear a

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Speaker 3: lot these days about people smoking toad venom, and it's

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Speaker 3: the primary component in that toad venom. Toad venom. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the Buffo Alvarez, the Sonoran desert toad people. They they

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Speaker 3: drive the venom and then they smoke it and it

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Speaker 3: blows your ego away. It can be very transformative. It's

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Speaker 3: a very powerful experience. Back then, nobody really knew what

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Speaker 3: it was except a few people, and we were getting

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Speaker 3: it from a lab in China and we smoked it

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Speaker 3: and had a life changing experience. So he and I

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Speaker 3: have always had this funny, weird sort of death connection.

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Speaker 3: So when I was finishing this book, the Death Book,

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Speaker 3: right when Covid was hitting, he was up playing on

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Speaker 3: a stage up at Orchests Island at the Imagined Festival.

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Speaker 3: And it was Friday the thirteenth, it was a full moon.

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Speaker 3: He was in this big stage and there was a

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Speaker 3: heart above him. Yeah, and he's playing a song and

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Speaker 3: I never get the words right, but he's playing a

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Speaker 3: song by David Byrne called Lazy, and he's playing it

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Speaker 3: and he's singing on a ukulele and it goes something like,

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Speaker 3: I'm lazy as a lover when I work, I'm lazy.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm wicked and I'm lazy. And he gets

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Speaker 3: through the line and he goes, I'm feeling so lazy,

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Speaker 3: I think I'm gonna stop. And right when he said that,

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Speaker 3: he literally dropped dead on stage.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, you're kidding.

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Speaker 3: No, he dropped that. A nurse was in the audience.

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Speaker 3: She jumped up, she broke two of his ribs. Trying

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Speaker 3: to resuscitate him. She worked on him for five six

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Speaker 3: minutes I don't know. The life flight ice came in

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Speaker 3: and they hit him with the paddles six times and

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Speaker 3: they brought him back geez, and they rushed him off

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Speaker 3: with the life flight. He got a triple by a pass.

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Speaker 3: He goes by a Poloca Leiley and he lives up

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Speaker 3: there on Orchest Island, and so you.

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Speaker 2: Know he's still.

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Speaker 3: Movies. So what I did is I went up to

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Speaker 3: Orcus and I helped him. I edited and published the

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Speaker 3: book about that experience. It's called Nature Loves Courage, which

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Speaker 3: is something that Terrence Man kind of used to say

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Speaker 3: all the time. But when I got to sit with

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Speaker 3: him and I said, Buddy, I gotta know this, that

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Speaker 3: that five amo experience that we had. I always thought

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Speaker 3: that was a dress rehearsal for death. Was it? And

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Speaker 3: he looked at me and he said, yes, it was. Wow.

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Speaker 3: So though he was gone and clinically dead for it

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Speaker 3: could have been ten twelve minutes, I don't know how

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Speaker 3: long it was, he said he was aware.

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Speaker 2: I had a friend of mine, Matthew, who I think

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Speaker 2: he died while sending me a text. Yeah, because a

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Speaker 2: couple of Texas came in it made sense. A third

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Speaker 2: one came in, it didn't make sense. A fourth one

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Speaker 2: came in, it was all gobbledgook. And then nobody heard

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Speaker 2: from him. And then the next day we had a

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Speaker 2: wellness check with the police and they found him dead.

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Speaker 3: Ind Wow, isn't that wild?

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Speaker 2: Strange?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is strange. Funny things happened, like I

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Speaker 3: won't get into all the details, but when my mom died,

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Speaker 3: hers stereo suddenly turned on really loud with Frank Sinatra.

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Speaker 3: I love that, right, And she loved Frank Sinacha. She

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Speaker 3: had worked with them years ago. And seems like this

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Speaker 3: whole electronic thing and the boundaries between the world, so

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Speaker 3: to speak, it's pretty strange, you know. To me, it

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Speaker 3: makes life more dreamlike in many respects and more magical.

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Speaker 3: And so one of the things that inspired me to

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Speaker 3: write this book is I'm not afraid to die. I'm ready.

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Speaker 3: I'm not in any hurry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're in no rush, no rush.

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Speaker 3: But part of me is looking forward to it, right

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Speaker 3: because all the experiences I've had in the jungle, with

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Speaker 3: all these plant diets for all these years, I've been

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Speaker 3: through everything imaginable and unimaginable. If there's something new I'm

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Speaker 3: waiting for it. But I mean I've been at it,

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Speaker 3: you know, for like twenty five years with that.

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Speaker 2: If you're going to go, though, what do you want

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Speaker 2: to go in your sleep? I think so, yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: the best way to go.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I want I would like to stay vital and

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Speaker 3: healthy all the way up, but it's time to go

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Speaker 3: and then bang, just go.

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Speaker 2: Then just go, you know, I don't want to stay

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Speaker 2: in the hospital for six months or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've seen too many people go on the installment plan. Uh.

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Speaker 3: Charles Schultz, who was a friend of mine, he died

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Speaker 3: in his sleep.

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Speaker 2: Like that the Peanuts Charles Schultz, Yes, sir, how about that?

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Speaker 3: He was He was a good friend. He was a

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Speaker 3: big part of the Santa Barbara Writers Conference for many years.

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Speaker 2: The actor just died sleep.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, well, you know,

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Speaker 3: to George, the older we get, the more it happens.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's true.

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Speaker 3: Well, we're gonna be up to bat sooner or later.

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Speaker 2: I guess when you die in your sleep, what happens.

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Speaker 2: You just have a heart attack in your sleep or something.

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Speaker 3: That's what happened with We called them Charles Shults. We

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Speaker 3: call them Sparky. Uh, that's what happened with Sparky and

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Speaker 3: his son Manti now owns the writer's conference and he's

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Speaker 3: keeping it going, keeping the tradition going. But to go

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Speaker 3: just like that, right, you probably don't even know what

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Speaker 3: hit you. Suddenly you're off wherever you end up going.

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Speaker 2: Assuming there's an afterlife, right, you'll know that you died.

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Speaker 2: But it'll be puzzling to you, I would assume, right,

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Speaker 2: A little confusing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I like to think. Of course I'm a

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Speaker 3: wee bit biased here, but all the visionary experiences that

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Speaker 3: I've had in the jungle and all the psychological things

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Speaker 3: I've been through all these years, I do feel very

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Speaker 3: prepared for whatever's going to come. Even if it were

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Speaker 3: to cease to exist, you have to accept it. No

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Speaker 3: matter what you know, it's it's always there. And you know,

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Speaker 3: there's that old saying that you start at the moment

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Speaker 3: you're born, you start to die. Right exactly.

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Speaker 2: In June of this year, you wrote a book called

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Speaker 2: The Thinning Veil. Tell us about that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's my third short story collection. Thank you for asking,

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Speaker 3: And my very first short story collection is the one

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Speaker 3: that Ray Bradberry gave me the blurb for and my

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Speaker 3: fans have been begging for more fiction because I've been

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Speaker 3: writing so much nonfiction lately. So I worked really hard

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Speaker 3: and I came up with thirteen Twisted Tales short stories.

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Speaker 3: Some of them are science fiction, science fiction, horror. I

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Speaker 3: got a nice Haunted Castle Scottish Haunted Castle story in there,

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Speaker 3: genetic manipulation, all kinds of weird little things. I did

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Speaker 3: thirteen of them, and I dedicated one of them to

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Speaker 3: Ray Bradbury.

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Speaker 2: It was Ray Bradberry versus the Alien.

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Speaker 3: Thank You. Yes, I had been asked Ray would have

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Speaker 3: been one hundred or few years ago, and I was

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Speaker 3: asked to write a story having to do with his life.

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Speaker 3: And there was the story boys Grow Giant Mushrooms in

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Speaker 3: your Basement. It was on the old Alfred Hitchcock Show.

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Speaker 3: It was on the old Ray Bradbery Theater, about aliens

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Speaker 3: taking over the world. So I wrote a first person's

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Speaker 3: story about a Ray Bradberry fan going back to Wakegan

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Speaker 3: where he was born and runs across the mushrooms again.

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Speaker 3: And in the story, the aliens are taking over by

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Speaker 3: making everybody eat the mushrooms, and they're getting possessed by

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Speaker 3: the aliens.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 3: So I did a first person with Ray Bradberry with

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Speaker 3: the Mushrooms, and I had a lot of fun writing it.

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Speaker 2: Did I ever tell you my Ray Bradberry story.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I know we have him in common.

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Speaker 2: We used to put out a newsletter called the after

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Speaker 2: Dark Newsletter, and I wrote a story about Ray Bradberry's

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Speaker 2: Twilight Zone script he wrote called I Sing the Body Electric.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: It was about a family who lost their mother. Two kids,

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Speaker 2: little boy, little girl, and the father and the mother

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Speaker 2: died and they were in tremendous morning, as they should be,

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Speaker 2: and he went to the robots store and bought a

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Speaker 2: nanny robot who raised the kids. They became adults, and

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Speaker 2: she went on to a different family to do it

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Speaker 2: all over again. But it was called I Sing the

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Speaker 2: Body Electric. And I just loved that show. Oh so

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Speaker 2: I wrote a story about it in our newsletter. It

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Speaker 2: somehow got the Ray Bradbury. He sent me a letter

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Speaker 2: which I still have on my bulletin board in my

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Speaker 2: office here that just says, reading the story you wrote

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Speaker 2: about me just delighted me to no end. Thank you,

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Speaker 2: Ray Bradbury.

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Speaker 3: That's sweet.

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Speaker 2: It's a classic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I got my picture in my postcard that

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Speaker 3: he sent me.

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Speaker 2: He was one of the best.

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Speaker 3: Man he was, so I was such an honor to

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Speaker 3: be with him. But he used to come to the

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Speaker 3: conference and after he would speak, he would go to

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Speaker 3: the back of the restaurant and I would get invited

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Speaker 3: back there with like maybe three other people, and he

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Speaker 3: would tell stories of writing Mulby Dick with John Houston,

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Speaker 3: and he would go into the John Houston voice, whoa

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Speaker 3: you know, and he would just do the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: What do you think made him so clever?

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Speaker 3: I have? I told this to a friend and they

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Speaker 3: thought I was a little crazy, but you know, we

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Speaker 3: were talking about visionary experience and drugs and this and that,

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Speaker 3: and I said, Ray Bradberry is the kind of guy

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Speaker 3: I would never ever need to take any drug ever ever,

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Speaker 3: because I think he always had that sort of three

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Speaker 3: year old childlike wonder yep and it's it's just a

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Speaker 3: beautiful thing. He always was was that that questioning and

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Speaker 3: what if and he was very much playful like a

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Speaker 3: pre year old. And I think that's just the sweetest

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Speaker 3: thing and what an inspiration. And he used to get

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Speaker 3: up there kicking off the conference and He would just

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Speaker 3: go on about how with the green place and the

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Speaker 3: hell with the novels just right for the love of it,

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Speaker 3: and he would just really get into this passion, you know,

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Speaker 3: and it was everybody would want to be there and

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Speaker 3: make sure they got raised. Opening night keynoted because he

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Speaker 3: was so full of just passion. You know, what a

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Speaker 3: blessing he was.

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Speaker 2: Where was he born.

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Speaker 3: He was born in Waukegan, or he lived in Waukegan,

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Speaker 3: Illinois until he was something like eight or something like that,

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Speaker 3: and then the family moved to la and he lived

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Speaker 3: in Venice Beach and he was writing, eking out a living,

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Speaker 3: writing for the for the pulp magazines, you know, like

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Speaker 3: weird Tales.

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Speaker 2: He was when he died.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I saw him just before he died.

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Speaker 3: And then and I gave him a copy of my

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Speaker 3: memoir and I just said, Ray, I'm not asking you

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Speaker 3: for a blurb or anything. I just wanted to give

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Speaker 3: to it this he put so great to me. And

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Speaker 3: he put it. He held it and he looked at it,

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Speaker 3: and he looked up at me and looked back down

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Speaker 3: at it, and then he held it to his heart.

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Speaker 3: And now that was.

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Speaker 2: Last time I saw him how many Alfred Hitchcock shows

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Speaker 2: did he write?

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Speaker 3: Yeah he did, he did about he did a lot

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Speaker 3: of those, Yeah he did, he did. He did probably

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Speaker 3: three or four Twilight Zones. He probably did maybe half

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Speaker 3: a dozen of the Hitchcock ones. And then in the

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Speaker 3: eighties when they had Ray Bradberry Theater, he got to

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Speaker 3: redo a lot of them.

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Speaker 2: Would you say Fahrenheit four one, four or five one

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Speaker 2: was his biggest work.

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Speaker 3: It was as big as the most well known. But

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Speaker 3: when he when he first started out, he took a

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Speaker 3: bus for three days to New York to try to

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Speaker 3: get a book published way back, and he spent the

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Speaker 3: whole week knocking on publishers doors and nothing happened, and

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Speaker 3: he was staying at the y m c A. And finally,

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Speaker 3: on Friday afternoon, the senator said, well, Ray, what about

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Speaker 3: those Mars stories? You know, you go, why don't you

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Speaker 3: do something with those? And so he the weekend he

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Speaker 3: threw together the Martian chronicles, brought in and they accepted it.

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Speaker 3: And then from then on he was kind of on

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Speaker 3: his way. But I think, yeah, Fahrenheit four fifty one

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Speaker 3: is probably his most famous one. But you know, something

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Speaker 3: wicked this way comes illustrated man.

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Speaker 2: I mean, how did you come up with your thirteen

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Speaker 2: twisted tails for the Thinning Vail book?

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Speaker 3: They were not easy.

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Speaker 2: I gotta tell you, how'd you find him?

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Speaker 3: Well? I scanned the newspapers all the time. So there's

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Speaker 3: one story I read about they put a pig's heart

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Speaker 3: into a guy because it's just like a human heart,

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Speaker 3: for real, for real, and he lived for about a

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Speaker 3: month and then he died.

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Speaker 2: Oh jeez.

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Speaker 3: So I had a story about a guy who was

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Speaker 3: a freak about bacon. He was really into his bacon,

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Speaker 3: and he ends up in the hospital because he doesn't

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Speaker 3: take care of himself. He eats terribly, and he ends

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Speaker 3: up getting a pig's heart and he starts turning into

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Speaker 3: a pig. Only get into all the details, but I

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Speaker 3: got it from what I've been in the news. I

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Speaker 3: have another story about genetically engineered babies that are perfect.

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Speaker 3: Call that one feudal fantasies. And then I want to know.

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Speaker 3: I read some really really old short stories from like

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Speaker 3: the turn of the century, so I wrote one in

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Speaker 3: that style. But short stories in many respects are harder

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Speaker 3: than a novel because you got to get it all done.

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Speaker 3: You got to come up with the idea, and you

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Speaker 3: got to wrap it all up and do it, you know,

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Speaker 3: and then you got to come up with a new idea.

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Speaker 3: Whereas when a novel gets going, it has a life

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Speaker 3: of its own. He just starts to build. But the

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Speaker 3: stories you got to keep coming up with new ones.

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