WEBVTT - Yolk with Doak 40: High Pointe, Lido, and Playing His Own Designs 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.800 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:06.400 And when I find my ball in a. 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:11.080 Bright egg, Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Friday fridagg 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.239 Bride Egg, Lie, I'm about ready to run off of 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:37.400 the hump course. Welcome back to another edition of the 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:41.080 Friday Egg Golf Podcast. I am Andy Johnson and this 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:45.000 is another edition of the Yolk with Doak. So Tom 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:48.239 was gracious enough to catch up with me. We have 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:52.040 we haven't talked in a while on the podcast. I 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:55.400 think we've both been very busy, Tom more so than me. 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.280 He has a ton of new projects to chat about, 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:03.120 and we into it just as a little programming note. 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.720 We talked for about two hours. So this will be 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.560 part one of the conversation and we will be releasing 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:14.480 part two this week. With it being Thanksgiving week, I 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.480 figure everybody's got a lot of travel on their hands. 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:21.840 This will get you through that and it should be 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:25.920 should be pretty fun conversation. A quick reminder, we have 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:29.920 our Black Friday sale going. It starts on Tuesday of 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:34.160 Thanksgiving week and runs till the Tuesday after Thanksgiving week. 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:38.039 If you use the code black Friday, you'll get twenty 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:41.640 percent off everything in the pro Shop outside of events, 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:45.520 so that that promo code is Black Friday. Meg has 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:50.240 done a tremendous job getting the pro Shop really stocked 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:54.000 with a wide range of different styles, different things. It 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:57.680 obviously is a big part of what we do here 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.600 is you know, in helping us continue to put out 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.440 all the content that we want to do. So thank 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:05.880 you to everybody that has supported us through the years. 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:09.399 And if you're in the market for some gifts for 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.280 a loved one or a gift for yourself, check out 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:16.440 our Black Friday sale at Proshop dot Dofriday dot com. 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:20.680 Without further ado, let's get to Tom Dook and Part 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.520 two of this conversation will be posted later this week. 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:33.040 All right, Tom, we're back. It's been been a number 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:36.760 of months. I feel like we've both been very busy, 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:40.400 but you're definitely been more busy than me. I got 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:44.160 to ask you, have you had any travel problems this year? 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:49.200 Not too bad really. I've gotten stranded in the airport 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.600 once or twice, but you know, that's about par for 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:59.000 the course for me. Got a thirty twenty thirty trips 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.400 and no, I mean it's been you know, it's been 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.520 a little easier because mostly I'm traveling in America. You know, 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.440 I don't have any thirty hour flights to deal with. 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:11.280 That's that's a welcome changement. 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:17.000 Pace. Yeah, I always I don't. I never complain about travel, like, 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:19.920 you know, if I get a bad you know, something 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:23.680 bad happens, because I really believe in like the travel gods. 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.520 And this year I had like the worst thing I 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:28.799 had happened was like I had a few flights where 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:32.359 my my my computer didn't plug in. And I was like, Okay, 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:36.160 these aren't big problems. I'm not I'm not upset about this, 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:38.960 and I'm going to you know, and it was a 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:41.040 great year of travel for me. So it was like, 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:44.000 you know, there's tons of people had trouble and I 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:48.800 did not. Let's start. We got a ton of listener questions, 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:51.680 which is obviously the basis of this pod going back 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:55.680 six years or so. I want to get to them, 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:58.360 and we'll weave in kind of all your new projects 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.320 through a lot of these questions. But this is a 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.119 fun one that we got from get get a Hold one. 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:07.760 When was the last time that you played one of 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:11.720 your golf courses with random people that didn't realize you 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:13.960 designed the course. Has that happened? 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:16.960 Oh yeah, so yeah a bunch of times, because I 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:19.640 don't you know, if if I do meet up with 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.240 some random person, I'm not the kind of person who's 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.479 going to be like looking for recognition, and I know 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:28.880 that I'm much more likely to get some real, like 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:33.080 honest feedback if I don't tell them right away who 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:37.600 I am. So I played with an Asian couple at 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:40.160 Barnboogle one of the times I was there, which was 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.440 great fun. They'd never been on a links course before 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.640 in their lives, and like after two or three holes, 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.279 I had him using the backboards, but I still didn't 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:52.760 I didn't tell them until like we made the turn. Yeah. Yeah, 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:56.000 that's why I know a lot about the golf course. Well. 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.520 The funniest one the last time I was at common 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:03.720 Ground was it was kind of right right after the pandemic. 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:07.800 I was out looking at something out that way, and 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:10.560 I just stopped in a common Ground late in the afternoon, 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.239 like just in time to maybe get in eighteen holes 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:18.840 before dark. And you know, I, you know, went in 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.840 the pro shop and said hi, and just just went 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.160 off by myself. But there was there was like a 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.520 three ball in front of me. So after a couple 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:29.360 you know, I hit a good shot on the second hall, 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:31.320 right up close while they were still standing on the 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:35.479 third tee. So they waved me up, and we're going 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:39.360 down the third fairway and I saw that one of 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:44.520 the guys had a bag with a bally Neal tag 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.960 on it or something like that, and I mentioned that 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.120 and he said, oh yeah, I'm a big Tom Doak fan, 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:55.200 but he did not recognize me. So I let that 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.479 go for at least two or three holes before I 0:05:58.520 --> 0:05:59.600 told him who I was. 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:05.640 That's amazing. You mentioned like real feedback. Do you have 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:10.680 anything that you remember where somebody said something that's stuck 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:12.839 with you that didn't know who you were. 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:19.240 No, not like any great architectural insights, just more their 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.560 takeaway from the golf course. You know, is it you know, 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.080 what's the first word out of their mouths? Is it fun? 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:29.479 Is it difficult? Is it interesting? You know, just that 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.640 kind of feedback is nice to get, and you don't 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:36.000 really get that very much normally, you know, every you know, 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:40.200 I talked to a bunch of writers who want to 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.600 analyze things more in depth than that, and that's not 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:45.760 really how the average golfer is going to experience it. 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:51.640 Yeah, that's I would agree with that, you know, all right, 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:56.920 Joel Anderson writes, since writing Anatomy of a Golf Course 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.680 in nineteen ninety two, what changes would you make to 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.080 the book book after thirty years of experience? Would you 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.080 prioritize certain topics more now than you did then? 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:09.960 No? I mean, just like my own golf courses, I 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:15.080 don't really want to go back and rewrite books and 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:17.840 edit them. And you know, I don't think my philosophy 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.920 has changed very much. You know, I'm a better architect 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:26.360 because I've got more practice building things. That's the part 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:31.080 where we keep getting better. But the ideas are still 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:36.720 the ideas. They've kind of always been the ideas, and 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:39.600 maybe there's pieces of it I could do better at 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.640 editing and condensing a little bit. That is a pretty 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:47.680 dense book for a beginner. I'm really surprised how many 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:51.080 times people compliment me on it, because it does get 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:55.080 pretty technical at times in the middle of it. But overall, 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:57.600 I'm really happy with the book. It's still sell you know, 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:00.800 it sells better now than it used to. I guess 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:05.800 that's because people know me more. But I'm really happy 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:07.920 with that book. I don't feel the need to rewrite 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:08.360 it at all. 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.280 All Right, all right, all right, with a high point. 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:15.840 We'll go back thirty years, thirty plus years, and your 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:20.720 back rebuilding high point. It's got eight holes from the 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:25.800 original design, and you guys have finished shaping all of them, 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:27.080 if I'm correct. 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:31.400 Right, we finished shaping everything, and we actually seeded all 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.800 the holes this fall, although quite a few of the 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.840 newer holes were seated so late that, you know, we 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:42.520 were hoping for a really long, nice fall like we 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.440 had last year to get some growth on those. But 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.080 I suspect several of those holes will have to be 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:52.280 reseeded next spring. You know, you always take the chance 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:54.400 and go ahead and try to seat everything and just 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.600 see if it'll catch. Because, as Pete I said to me, 0:08:57.679 --> 0:08:59.440 the first time we were working on a high point, 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:01.040 we were getting near the end of the year and 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:04.240 we didn't have irrigation in all the holes. I actually 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:07.679 called him for advice and said, you know, we're not 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.559 going to have time to get all the irrigation, and 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.400 should I try to see these holes or not. And 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.880 Peetie and his infinite wisdom said, seed doesn't grow in 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:20.720 the barn. What do you think we used to do 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.600 before we had a lot of your big irrigation systems. 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:26.000 Just put it out there and see if it'll to grow. 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.920 That's good, that's a good one liner. What surprised you 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.319 most about High Point? Part two? So like, what has 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.080 surprised you about the whole project the most? And that's 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:39.319 from Sea Pressed. 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.320 I don't know if I'm surprised by high Point. I 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:47.600 mean I did feel a lot more pressure to get 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:51.360 out there and do some of the shaping myself, and 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.960 it certainly interrupted my rhythm at home. You know, normally, 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:59.640 when Brian Slannik and I are working on project, we're 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.040 away working on the project and then we're home and 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.559 we're home and we have time for our families. And 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:09.560 this summer wasn't like that at all. You know, we 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:12.120 were are we going to be home for dinner? We're 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:15.120 not sure. You know, we might work late. That doesn't 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:19.240 go over well. So it was that was a tough 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:24.880 summer just for you know, getting out of our comfort 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:29.199 zones while we're home, which we don't really it's taken 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:31.640 a long time to get in a comfort zone as 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:37.960 much as we travel. But you know, overall, I'm really 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.720 happy with the golf course. At the same time, you know, 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.240 I'm kind of curious to play these new nine holes 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:48.440 and see if I like them as much. You know, 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:52.240 I'm happy with all the holes, but would we have 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.000 had more cool features if I'd had all of my 0:10:55.400 --> 0:11:00.600 crew working on that, contributing their little idea like they 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.760 do on all of my other projects, instead of having 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:08.599 to all come from me. And personally, I think it 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.959 would probably be better if I'd had all that help. 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.760 You know, people always assume all the ideas are mine, 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.160 and that's not really the way we work, and and 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:22.319 I hope this course doesn't show that in a bad light. 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.760 It's uh yeah, I mean, I would hate for anybody 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:31.440 to read my writing without Garrett from our team or 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.000 Brendan from our team editing it. It would be it 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:37.840 would be revealing. I guess people from wayback might remember that. 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.800 You know, it's like the same type of thing with writing, 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:45.640 right It's like if you don't have your editor or 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:50.720 you know, team of editors. I like that's and it 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:53.480 makes sense. I think it makes sense completely, because if 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.120 you think about the Great Golden Age courses, so many 0:11:56.160 --> 0:12:01.320 of them were built through collaboration, and architects weren't as 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:06.360 competitive then. And in a way, your associates act as 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:10.120 as the you know, you know obviously the historic story 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.280 of like the Philly School acted where they all shared 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.199 ideas they would come visit their site. In a way, 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:20.199 your your associates are kind of like that, right. 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:22.959 Yeah, they're They're a huge part of what I do 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.760 and they always have been, and you know, and we 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.240 like having all these young guys around to getting their 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.920 first taste of it because they they they bring such 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:36.400 enthusiasm to the project. It's like it's never just another 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:41.920 project to them. And you know, they may not give 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.360 me a great idea of how to shape the ninth Green, 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:46.760 they shouldn't really expect to do that at this point 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.040 in their lives, but just being out there every day 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.720 and being another set of eyes on the thing to say, 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:56.559 you know that the right that back right corner doesn't 0:12:56.600 --> 0:13:01.400 really look cry. You know, most of my jobs, I've 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:05.080 got half a dozen people with real talent out there 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:09.360 looking at everything we're doing every day. And that's why 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:10.199 they turn out. 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.360 That well, speaking of that, I noticed this at the 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:16.640 at your Renaissance Cup about a month ago, where you had, 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.160 you know, you had everybody that was really involved with 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:24.400 the with Alito project there. I couldn't help but notice 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:28.400 the youth wave on your staff. What's it been like 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:33.520 having so many new young people involved and have you 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:37.199 noticed anything different about the way they think about golf 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.719 architecture or talk about it. 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.120 Unfortunately I don't get to spend as much time with 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.560 them as i'd like, you know, I try to make 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.920 room for at least to have every one of them 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.439 like shadow me for a day at some point when 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:59.079 I'm there during the process. But there has been a 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.560 youth movement. We've kind have done it in waves over 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.160 the years. You know, I've always had this internship program, 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.760 but you can't really have too many interns unless you've 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.560 got a design project coming up in the summer, a 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.440 construction project coming up in the summer, so you'll have 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:14.720 something for them to do. You know, it doesn't make 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:16.920 sense to have them all sit around my office looking 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.400 at each other trying to draw routing for something. So, 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.200 you know, coming out of the pandemic and getting started 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.640 on Lido, we've trained up a lot of people to 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.520 the point that you know, ten years ago those people 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:35.440 helping us were Blake Konan and Cly Johnson and Angela 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.560 Moser and now they're running projects and we you know, 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.840 we need another generation of people who are kind of 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:42.680 starting at the bottom and we don't have to pay 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:46.240 them a fortune and you know, let them be out 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.480 there and contribute a little bit. So so we had 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:54.280 five interns for the lido and two or three of 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.320 them that came back for the second year, and you know, 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.480 Brian Schneiders had a couple of them under here wings 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.240 since then working on Old Barnwell and some of the 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:06.680 renovation things that he's doing. So we had to get 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:12.520 a couple more to help with Sedge Valley and there's 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:17.800 some real talent there, like there always is, and it's 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:21.400 exciting to see him starting to learn how to actually 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:25.880 build things and and be helpful instead of just having 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:26.480 an opinion. 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:32.680 I love that they're helpful instead of just having an opinion. 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.120 That's the thing I mean. You know, I meet so 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.680 many people that are interested in golf course design and 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:40.360 want to work for me, and that you know, their 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:42.080 idea of working for me is that they're going to 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.520 walk around behind me all day and help me think 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:48.280 through everything. It's like everybody would like to have that. 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.400 Job, especially right out of the gate. 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.480 Sure, and I don't know what I expected the day 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.240 I went down to start working for Pete Dye at 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.280 Long Cove, But it did not take me more than 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:04.840 half a day to figure out, Okay, he doesn't really 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.880 need that much help thinking through how to design this thing. 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:13.480 He needs help building it. That's what everybody's out there for, 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:17.480 and that is the most important part of it. You 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.440 can't It doesn't matter how many great ideas you've got 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:25.160 if you can't build that. And that building process takes 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:29.760 so long and takes so many people that that gives 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.800 everybody else a chance to contribute and make it better, 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.400 which you're not going to do sitting in the office. 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:39.200 Well, it's what you just said about high Point, and 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.320 like what you are worried about is that you didn't 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.880 have as many people helping you, and you worry about 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.960 like the cool stuff that you might have missed out 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:52.280 on by not having everybody there right and. 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.320 Right, Which is not to say I didn't have any help. 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.760 I mean, Brian Slanik was there from start to finish 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.840 and kind of polishing up everything I did and make 0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:05.280 it better. We aren't just going straight off my last 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:09.000 bulldozer push to a finished green for the couple of 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.960 greens that I did, just say, now, we're just going 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.960 to keep these contours that are right here. Let's just 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.240 map that and put it back together. And then I 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:21.400 had Matt Hunter, who was an intern for US at 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:25.720 stream Song years ago and worked on several construction projects 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:30.040 for US, but eventually got out of the business and 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.520 moved back to Traverse City and you know, got married 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:37.280 and has a little family. Now he's been working here 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.280 in Traverse City for the last ten years. But he 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.640 always said to me, if high Point ever comes back, 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.359 I'm going to quit my job and work on high Point. 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.760 And sure enough, as soon as they started talking about 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:51.400 putting it back, he was like, yeah, I'm serious, that's 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:53.600 what I'm going to do. So he was on the 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.679 crew all summer and you know, good enough on a 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.040 bulldozer that he was the one with actually with the 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.240 daughter of the engineer for the project who put the 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:04.560 greens back together and put the mix in and got 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:08.119 them floated out again with the GPS unit. So they 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:11.680 were right, which saved both me and Brian a ton 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.160 of time. And you know, they did a great job. 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.080 So it's not like I didn't have any help, but 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:22.320 I didn't. You know, most of the famous courses I've 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.080 worked on in the last twenty years, Bally Neil or 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:29.760 Terry Edy or wherever. You know, you've got at least 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.520 four or five greens on those golf courses that that 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:36.640 was really Brian Schneider's idea or Eric's idea or Kai 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:40.040 Goldy's idea, you know, with me editing them a little. 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.960 And that's you know, it's different when all the ideas 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:46.280 have to come straight out of me. That's the part 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:47.159 that I'm worried about. 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:51.840 Yeah, yeah, I guess. Yeah. My point was the where 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.200 people can help is in the field. That's where they 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:58.000 get to put their ideas right, imprinted their ideas, and 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.000 you know, very little comes from just walking behind you. Right. 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:15.359 All right, let's talk about our sponsor, Club Champion. Club 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.320 Champion has been with us and they have an awesome offer. 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.240 So for those that aren't aware of what Club Champion is, 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:25.800 Club Champion is really the premier club fitter in America. 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:29.840 They do they're international as well. They have the most 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:33.640 sophisticated fitting technology. You go in there and you get 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:38.520 effectively a PGA Tour level fitting for anybody. With that, 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:43.720 they have an awesome offer for Black Friday. 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That's where I was going. 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:54.800 So really great brand, somebody that I've worked with my 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:58.640 entire really my entire golf life. So go to Club 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:00.919 Champion dot com use the promo code frieda Egg to 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:10.439 redeem this offer. And now back to Tom dok So. 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:12.400 One of the unique things about your some of your 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.440 new holes, and you posted this on Instagram at high 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:20.080 point is the choose your own adventure routing between three 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:23.639 and four and Ryan Book asked, how far do you 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.600 think this concept could go? I think explaining how it 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:28.600 works would be great. How far do you think this 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:32.240 concept could go? Do you think a course could have 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:36.840 a few similar situations like could you do this multiple 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.760 times of course? Or could an entire course be where 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:43.680 you that your next tee is determined by the green 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:44.480 you choose. 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.919 Well for starters, you know, I came up with that 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:51.280 idea very late in the process of building the golf course. 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:53.080 We were down to building the shape in the last 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:56.440 three or four holes, and we had all the all 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:58.600 the other part of three is were kind of medium length, 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:01.399 and I was trying to decide whether to make number 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:06.880 three really short or really long, and I asked Rod 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:11.400 Trump his opinion, and he said, I kind of like short, 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:14.080 and I said, well, so do I. But the hard 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.679 thing about doing a really short part three is you 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:19.840 want to build a really small green. And the superintendent 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:22.040 doesn't want us to build a thirty five hundred square 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:24.560 foot green. You know, he's going to say that's going 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:27.400 to be hard to keep in perfect shape every day 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:31.560 if we're doing fifteen thousand rounds down the road. So 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:34.439 you know, Tom Fazio used to do it quite a 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:38.200 bit on his golf courses back in like around two thousand. 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:41.840 Shadow Creek had one and Pelican Hill had one where 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:44.680 they built two greens on a hole so they could 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:48.160 build a small green for one of those two greens. 0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:53.520 That was the whole idea, and you know, so that 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:56.040 was the start of this, was like, okay, well we'll 0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:58.720 build the small green for the really short hole, but 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:01.760 then we'll build a know, we'll build another green on 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:05.080 the par three that's a much longer haul and have 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:07.960 a decent sized green for it too, and then there'll 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:10.080 be plenty of green space, even though both the greens 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:13.080 are barely smalle if they were the only one and 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:18.760 that longer green pushed against the t's for the next hole, 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:23.320 so you don't have to play the short t the 0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:26.240 short green for the par three and then the long 0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:29.719 tee for the par five. You could obviously walk forward 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:35.040 and you could stand. You could stand on the back 0:23:35.119 --> 0:23:37.639 tee for the par five while people were playing the 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:42.359 long part three and not get hit. But it does 0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:45.160 make more sense for flow to just combine them. When 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:47.560