1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: All Zone Media, Hello and welcome. It could happened here 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: the podcast where I take. 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 2: An entire kindline, put it in my mouth at once, 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 2: and then try not to suffocate. 5 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: That's that's what's already happened. You missed that. 6 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 2: Maybe if you were a subscriber to Cooler Zone Media, 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 2: you would have been you wouldn't. 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm not doing that, not doing them with FCC. 9 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 3: Note, Cooler Zone Media will not provide you access to 10 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 3: footage of games choking on a client far. 11 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 2: Yeah that's sounding in a premium package. But we're not 12 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,279 Speaker 2: here today to talk about snacks. Sadly that will get 13 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 2: another podcast. We are here today to talk about my 14 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 2: recent trip to the daddy En Gap in Panama. So 15 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 2: I guess to start off with we should probably explain, 16 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 2: like do you think me or I need to explain 17 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:50,319 Speaker 2: like where it. 18 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 3: Is and what look I I went to school with 19 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 3: a kid who actually this happened multiple times the more 20 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 3: I know, I'm thinking back on it, like people who 21 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 3: thought that the Arabian Peninsula was in Mexico, So like, 22 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 3: in fact, you need to explain this. 23 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, yeah, okay, I'm just imagining that what got 24 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 2: it mixed up, mixed up with the Yucatan. 25 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 3: It was really sort of oh wow, incredible stuff happening 26 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 3: in by schools. 27 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, fascinating. Yeah. 28 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: Okay, So for those of you who are not familiar, 29 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 2: the Dadian Gap is an area between Colombia and Panama 30 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 2: that has historically, like I've seen a lot of characterizations 31 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 2: of this which I think erased the existence to indigenous people, 32 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 2: which shouldn't be shocking given the corporate media, right. But yeah, 33 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 2: people have lived in this area for thousands of years. 34 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: They have happy and fulfilled lives. They thrive. 35 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 2: There is no desolate place. It's just a place that 36 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: hasn't made itself amenable to capitalism. Really, it's a place 37 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 2: between Colombia and Panama where there are no roads, there 38 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: are not navigable rivers. It is extremely mountainous. It's one 39 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: of the most humid places on Earth. It is covered 40 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: in incredibly dense jungle. There are fast flowing rivers which 41 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 2: you have to cross as you travel there. And for 42 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: about half a million migrants last year, it was the 43 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 2: only way that they could come from South America to 44 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 2: Central America and they continue their journey on to North America. 45 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 3: From a minder saying like, this isn't just people like 46 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 3: from South America, Like, there's a bunch of other people 47 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 3: who come into South America because it's easier to get 48 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 3: in who are taking this route too. 49 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. 50 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: So for most people who are coming to want to 51 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: come to the United States, they can't fly directly the 52 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: United States, right, it's quite rare to get their asylum 53 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 2: that way, very rare. And there's a HNV Cuba, Haiti, 54 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 2: Nicaragua Venezuela program which in theory allows that it's backed 55 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 2: up for like two years. So most people will fly 56 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 2: to a country in South America. The most regular one 57 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: is Brazil because Brazil doesn't impose visas on countries that 58 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 2: don't impose visas on it, and then from there they 59 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 2: begin making their way north. Geography understanders will realize that 60 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 2: Brazil is a very long way from the United States. 61 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very bad. Like that's that's not good. That's yeah, 62 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: it's not good at all. 63 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 2: Short of Argentina, you really you really couldn't get that 64 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 2: much further away, you know, in the continental Southern America. 65 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 2: So what people tend to do, especially so I spoke 66 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 2: to just off the top of my head. People from Nepal, 67 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: people from India, people from Venezuela, people from Colombia, people 68 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: from Angola, people from Cameroon, Togo, Iran. I spoke to 69 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,839 Speaker 2: a Kurdish guy that he was from Iran. I'm trying 70 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 2: to think off the top of my head. That's most 71 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 2: of them. 72 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 3: Probably China, I know there's I didn't speak to any 73 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 3: Chinese migrants. 74 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. 75 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: I went fully prepared with like a machine to translate 76 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 2: and everything, and I didn't see any Chinese migrants, which 77 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 2: is quite surprising. Haitian people, of course, the special Locitian people. 78 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: The Chinese were coming through the dairy and gap in 79 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: big numbers. 80 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: Last year. 81 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: The only thing I heard about Chinese migrants was that 82 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: someone had seen the remains of someone who they described 83 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 2: as Chinese. Yeah. So if you're not familiar with the journey, 84 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: it is the most dangerous part of the migration route 85 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 2: in the Americas right. It's one of the most dangerous 86 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 2: migration routes on Earth. People have to walk for between 87 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 2: two days and a week. I've heard even fifteen days, 88 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: but the accounts I had maxed out a week. There 89 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 2: is nowhere to get water, there is nowhere to get food. 90 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 2: You have to walk through mud that can come up 91 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 2: to your waist, You have to cross rivers that are 92 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: higher than you are tall. You have to climb boulders 93 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 2: shemier across cliff faces. The accounts I heard and the 94 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 2: things I saw were pretty horrible, like and we've kind 95 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 2: of had a fun introduction, but I would rather go 96 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 2: back to the uncertainty I had of like being in 97 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 2: Syria last year and knowing that there were bombs falling 98 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: on people every night, then have to see some of 99 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 2: that stuff again. It's horrific, Like I can't really. I'm 100 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: obviously working on a scripted series and we'll have that 101 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: out soon. But like, in terms of the things that 102 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: we do to each other, a humans like little children 103 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 2: die in the darying gap all the time. People carry 104 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 2: their babies across rivers on their shoulders. People carry other 105 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: people's babies when people are too tired from carrying their 106 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 2: own children. 107 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,679 Speaker 1: And not everyone who enters leaves. 108 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: Right, it's if you drink the water from the river, 109 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 2: you'll probably die because there are dead bodies and upstream right, 110 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: there's human waste in that river. If you fall and 111 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 2: break your leg you'll die if you run out of water. 112 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 2: You're not really in a place where anyone has any 113 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 2: spare water to give you. 114 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: It's horrific. 115 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: Every single account of the gap that I heard was 116 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: that no one should do it, that it's it's terrible, 117 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 2: that it's in human, it's like nothing people have ever seen. 118 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 2: But people don't have a choice, right, it's the only 119 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 2: way for people I spoke to, probably I have over 120 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 2: one hundred interviews recorded, you know, I spoke to more 121 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 2: people than that. The bast bulk of them were from 122 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 2: Venezuela and a place where I used to live, and like, 123 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 2: I understand that they lots of them have children, some 124 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 2: of them are bringing their children, some of them are 125 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: going ahead and trying to send money, right remittances back 126 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 2: to their children, right, And everyone said the same thing, 127 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 2: that there's no future for them in their country, that 128 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: they don't see a way of succeeding, of raising their families, 129 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 2: of having a future for themselves. There I met a 130 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: trans lady from Venezuela who was saying that, like, there 131 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 2: are legal things in place that won't allow her to 132 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 2: have her gender affirmed by documents, right, she wasn't able 133 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 2: to graduate with her degree. 134 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. 135 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, like things are just completely deliberately torpedo. 136 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 2: Your life just being who you are as yourself. Right, 137 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 2: people aren't doing this because they want this fictional housing 138 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 2: assistance or whatever it is that Trump and jadivans. People 139 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 2: are doing this because they don't see a future for themselves. 140 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: I spoke to Iranian women right who had been on 141 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 2: the road for nearly a year trying to avoid prosecution 142 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 2: at home for having participated in protests for like basic 143 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: human rights. Yeah, it's just the things I heard and 144 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: saw were deeply, deeply upsetting, And I. 145 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: Think it's retally important that we. 146 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 2: I guess, kind of bear witness to this because it 147 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 2: doesn't really get discussed when the US media talks about migration. 148 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: Maybe if we're lucky, they'll come to the southern border 149 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 2: for a day, right and do some rassionistic piece on it, 150 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 2: But like, pretty often they talk about migrants, but they 151 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 2: don't talk to them, and so, like, I think it's 152 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 2: important that we talk to them, and I think it's 153 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: important that we face up to the fact that like 154 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 2: this is a choice that the people who have been 155 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: elected in this country have made. They've decided that the 156 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 2: only way, For instance, the only place to use CBP 157 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 2: one right is in southern Mexico or north of Mexico City. 158 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: Can you explain what CVP one is for people who 159 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: don't remember. 160 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, So CBP one is an app that allows 161 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,359 Speaker 2: people to apply for an interview for asylum. 162 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: Just to sort of skip ahead, I guess people. 163 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 2: Understand that they have to use CBP one, and they 164 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 2: understand that they can only do it in Mexico. And 165 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 2: the people who I met in the Darienna are now 166 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 2: in Mexico. 167 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: Right. 168 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: They take a series of buses north. Not all of them, 169 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: I'd explain why, but some of them haven't been able 170 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,959 Speaker 2: to leave Panama yet. They take a series of buses 171 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 2: north and they get to the Guatemala Mexico boarder and 172 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 2: they cross in Tapatula and then they work out the 173 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 2: CBP one is not compatible with the vast majority of 174 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: cell phones. It doesn't work with older Android like Samsung phones. 175 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: Oh my fucking god. 176 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it works with iPhones and I didn't see 177 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 2: a thing or person with an iPhone. If you're wealthy, 178 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 2: you can avoid the DADDI en right. There are ways 179 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 2: you can go around in a boat. There are ways 180 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 2: that you can sort of take a shorter route. The 181 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 2: route that I was on is the route that people 182 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 2: who do not have the resources to avoid this dreadful 183 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 2: journey take. And now they get to Mexico and they 184 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: realize that, yeah, you have to get to Mexico to 185 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 2: make the application right, and the way to get there 186 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 2: is to cross the dairy end. And then when you 187 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 2: get there, you realize that this thing requires you'd have 188 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: a special telephone that you don't have. 189 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: And it's just very bleak. 190 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 3: It's a level of human evil, both in the sense 191 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 3: of it has been actively designed like this and in 192 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 3: the sense that they don't give a shit, like the 193 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 3: fact that that fucking app doesn't work on Android, it 194 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 3: doesn't work old or Androids, the fact that the app 195 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 3: fucking sucks shit like the entire way. Yeah, like everything 196 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 3: about this, Johnny. It's designed to be painful, to kill people, 197 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 3: to strip away like the hope that people have. Yeah, 198 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 3: and it's and it's designed to do this to like 199 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 3: attempt to satiate the fucking insane bloodlust of like seven 200 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 3: dipshits and fucking like rural southern Illinois. And it's like, Okay, 201 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 3: there's literally nothing you can do to ever appease these people. 202 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,839 Speaker 3: The only the only thing that will ever appease them 203 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 3: is their own death. Like, nothing you're ever going to 204 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: do to these fucking immigrants is ever going to make 205 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 3: these people like like you could, You could, fucking you 206 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 3: could put these people in a country that has zero 207 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 3: immigrants at all, and they would still scream about it. 208 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 3: There's there's nothing you can fucking do. And people have 209 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 3: decided that in order to basically people have decided in 210 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 3: order to try to get like a one percent higher 211 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 3: margin in an election, they're probably still going to lose, 212 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 3: going to just fucking inflict inhuman suffering on unbelievably large 213 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 3: numbers of people. 214 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think that's the thing I want people 215 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 2: to really like grasp is like somebody has made a decision. 216 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 2: Maybe we should take an ad break here, advertising break, all. 217 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: Right, we're back. 218 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 2: So specifically, I want to talk about what the US 219 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 2: is doing right now in Panama, what it started doing 220 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 2: since July. Right, That's why I wanted to go when 221 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: I did. Panama had to change the presidency in July. 222 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 2: We have Molina as president now and he's promised to 223 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 2: close the Darien. Right, if your source was his social media, 224 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 2: then you would think it was closed. I saw about 225 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 2: a thousand people a day crossing it. None of them 226 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 2: had seen a barrier, none of them had seen the 227 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 2: razor wire. But he's posted about they didn't know that 228 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 2: it was using. What they did know was that the 229 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 2: US had an election in November, and everybody wants to 230 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 2: get here before that. Yeah, you know, I tried to 231 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 2: explain that, like we actually don't transition power immediately right, 232 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 2: that that happens in January, but everybody is concerned to 233 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 2: get here before the election. And what the US is 234 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: doing in Panama is the US is currently funding deportations 235 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 2: and I like saw that happening firsthand. With this is 236 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 2: this is honestly one of those things which just really 237 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,839 Speaker 2: fucks me up and like I need to like I 238 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 2: know it just I tried to record stuff at the time. 239 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 1: And I just it's all just me saying this sucks. 240 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: This is terrible. 241 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 3: This like what it looks like is so you leave 242 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 3: bab Jaqito, right, which is Barjiquito is an indigenous village. 243 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 3: It's a village of the Ember people who were wonderful. 244 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 3: There were nothing but kind to me. 245 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 2: I stayed in their houses for a week and slept 246 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 2: in my hammock in the house, I shared their food, 247 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 2: held their little babies like they were incredible and client 248 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 2: hosts and very grateful to them. From Baljaquito, which is 249 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 2: this tiny village right. The population of Barjaquito triples every day. 250 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 2: Five hundred people live there. A thousand people roll up 251 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 2: every day and then they're transported in dugout canoes, like 252 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 2: a tiny canoe that is carved out from the trunk 253 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:25,959 Speaker 2: of a tree. 254 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: They're two stroke bolted on the bag. I think I 255 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: posted a pitch on Twitter. If not, I will do. 256 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 2: The micros are taken upstream. They pay twenty five bucks 257 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 2: each and they're taken five hours upstream. If they don't 258 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 2: have the money, there's three canoes every day that are 259 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 2: provided for free, and they generally try and make sure 260 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 2: that all the women and children getting those canoes right. 261 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 2: One of the things that MBAA has done has made 262 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: everyone wear life jackets just because a lot of these 263 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 2: people can't swim right. They've been crossing rivers above their heads. 264 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 2: They told me that they made human chains, right, so 265 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 2: everybody sort of locks their arms together because the rivers 266 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 2: wash people away. They're transported from Bajuguesel to a place 267 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 2: called Lajas Blancas, which is the first migrant reception center 268 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 2: in Panama. So they're now leaving like they don't have 269 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 2: reservations in Panama. But they're in the Embra Wunan Cormarka. 270 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 2: And then when they get there, they're in the dai 271 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 2: En Commarca. So they're in sort of outside of an 272 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 2: almost entirely indigenous state of Panama and in like what 273 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 2: you would consider like Panamanian government custody. I guess when 274 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 2: they enter in Lahas Blancas, and when they get there, 275 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: they register, right, they show their passport, they do all 276 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 2: that stuff. And that's where like un has Shelters with 277 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: the Red Cross has a facility there, the highs Has 278 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 2: of the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, Global Brigades, all these 279 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 2: big NGOs that you're used to seeing in these places 280 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: have facilities there. But to leave Las Blancas, they need 281 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 2: sixty bucks per person to get on a bus, right, 282 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 2: and if they don't have sixty bucks to get on 283 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 2: the bus, I was told these buses are owned by 284 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 2: Panamanian parliamentary deputies. 285 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: But I haven't been able to confirm that unch fucking crush. 286 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, someone is putting fifty five people on a bus, 287 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 2: taking sixty bucks from each of them, and sending about 288 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: twenty buses a day. 289 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: Like someone is making a lot of money. 290 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, people will remember that one of these buses crashed 291 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 2: last year, killing forty two migrants. But the really big 292 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: thing is it's not the bus. It's not the ten 293 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 2: hour bus ride. Like those people are so happy to 294 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 2: be getting on the bus because they're continuing. It's the 295 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 2: people who don't have sixty bucks and like, yeah, they've 296 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 2: made it this far with a combination of whatever savings 297 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 2: they had. 298 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: And like incredible tenacity. 299 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 2: Right, Like they pay someone in Columbia obviously to bring 300 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 2: them so to get to the start of their walk 301 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 2: in deli En. They leave from neck or Clean, Columbia, 302 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 2: come across on a lancha like a speedboat, and then 303 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 2: they walk up to the Columbian border where the guides 304 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 2: and leave them. 305 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: Now the guides are obviously like this area is controlled by. 306 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 2: The golf cartel in Columbia, right, so they have safe 307 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 2: pass through that area. None of them had anything bad 308 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 2: to say about that area. It's when the guides leave 309 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 2: them and they're on their own into Panama. That's when 310 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 2: they didn't have water, they didn't have food because no 311 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 2: one's told them they need water and food to be fair, 312 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 2: right like that they weren't. I didn't think it was 313 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 2: going to take as long as it was, be as 314 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 2: hard as it was. It's not. So I've learned a 315 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 2: little bit from tiktoks and stuff, so I'm going to 316 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 2: bring a bit more. But four days of water is 317 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: a lot of water, Like speaking from experience, backpack in 318 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 2: the desert. If you don't have the right equipment, it's 319 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 2: hard to carry. So yeah, shuit is heavy, yeah, right, 320 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 2: like you do. Like that's the other part, Like. 321 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: If you want four liters a person, right, that's like 322 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: going to be four kilograms and that's a day. So 323 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: most like that. By four days, what is it in pounds? 324 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 2: Eight point eight pounds, it's four liters. 325 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're also carrying this like through the fucking jungle, 326 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 3: which is just like everything's wet all the time, right, 327 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 3: you're sweating, you're crossing rivers, your feet are always wet, 328 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 3: like everyone's feet when they arrived and last blankerts, I 329 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 3: took pictures of this. But they all have these crappy 330 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 3: boots that they buy Nika clean Plumbia and every bin 331 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 3: in Bajiquito is full of these boots because they suck. 332 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 3: And people like the blisters I saw, and like people 333 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 3: getting trench foot right, like where the entire skin on 334 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 3: their foot is just ready to slough off like a glove. 335 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 3: Like everyone buys these crocs from a vendor in Bajiquito there, 336 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 3: but like they can get through all that. They everyone 337 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 3: who I met in Bajo Chiquito, everyone who I met 338 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 3: on the trail, had made right. They through tenacity and 339 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 3: like a lot of people said it like it's a roulette. 340 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 2: You go in there and you hope for the best. 341 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 2: Not everyone makes it, but most of them do. So 342 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 2: the people who had made it get to go to 343 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 2: Lahas Blancats, right, and if they can't afford the boat 344 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 2: from Bait to the last Blankers, they can walk. It's 345 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 2: non fine, it's very hours of walking, right. I mention 346 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 2: some of those guys one day and I gave them 347 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 2: water filters stuff. 348 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: I wasn't allowed to walk. 349 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 2: With them, but I was able to like talk with them, 350 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 2: and I spoke to them again when they arrived, right, 351 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 2: and they get to Last Blancats and they're just if 352 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 2: they don't have sixty bucks and they don't have it, 353 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 2: and then they stay there sometimes for months, and this 354 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 2: is not a place to stay for months. Like they 355 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 2: have little casitas which they have for like this one 356 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 2: for unaccompanied children, and then others I think are allocated 357 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 2: to families. But it's not much more than four walls 358 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 2: in a roof, and most people don't even get that right. 359 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 2: Most people are looking for a flat spot to pitch 360 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 2: the shitty tent that they bought in Colombia. And then 361 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 2: they're just stuck there. And there's obviously a relatively new policy. 362 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 2: They used to take five free people per bus, but 363 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 2: they don't anymore. Like from bar Jigito they have three 364 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 2: free boats a day, right, But leaving lasast Blancas, if 365 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 2: you don't have the money, then you don't leave. And 366 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,719 Speaker 2: the people I spoke to there who are stuck there 367 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 2: are still stuck there. People have been stuck there for 368 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 2: more than a month. Their children aren't going to school, 369 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 2: they're sleeping on the ground. If this is not a 370 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 2: place that's designed to be a long term residence, it's 371 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,719 Speaker 2: designed to be like one night and moving through and 372 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 2: every day new people arrive who can't afford it, and 373 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 2: so the population is growing and growing and growing, and 374 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 2: there seems to be no solution. No one I spoke 375 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 2: to could point to what they want them to do right, 376 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 2: Like they're being given free food by the government. 377 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: Some of them said the food wasn't great. 378 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it's halal like sometimes some of 379 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,479 Speaker 2: them said they'd seen foods that had pork in it. 380 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 2: But I didn't see any food to have pork in 381 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 2: it when I was there, so maybe that's been changed. 382 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: But they're just stuck there. Yeah, there's nothing they can do. Right. 383 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 2: If they want to have money transferred there, they can 384 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 2: do it through a local intermediary who charges to twenty 385 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 2: five percent fee. So now if you don't have sixty yeah, 386 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 2: like you need seventy five bucks now right to get 387 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 2: your sixty bucks. Now, multiply that by a family of fire. 388 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 2: You can start to see why it becomes inaccessible to people. 389 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 3: And that's that's a lot of money. Like if you're 390 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 3: in this position, like that's yeah. 391 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 2: It costs so much more to travel on busesm and 392 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 2: by foot. Across the Americans and it would to fly. Yeah, 393 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 2: Like all of them would love to fly, but they 394 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 2: can't because we have this system that makes everyone money 395 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 2: apart from the migrants. 396 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's like it didn't fucking it didn't fucking 397 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 3: used to be like this. Like when my family came 398 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 3: to the US, like we didn't have to like, you know, 399 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 3: we had a bunch of fucking harrowing shit to like 400 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 3: flee the Japanese and like get to Taiwan. But it 401 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 3: was like like when my parents, like and like their 402 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 3: parents like came to the US, they just they fucking 403 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 3: flew in. None of this fucking has to be the 404 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 3: way any of this shit works. It didn't used to 405 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 3: be the way any of this shit works. And it's 406 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 3: like like these are people from countries, and you know, 407 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, obviously, like my parents were like leading 408 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 3: from Taiwan to the US, right, which makes it easier, 409 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 3: but these are also these are people from places that 410 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 3: the US fucking hates, Yeah, and so like you you 411 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 3: would expack them to get like at least somewhat similar 412 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 3: treatment to people who came from like Taiwan, which is 413 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 3: at the time, you know, like US ally anti China stuff, 414 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 3: but like, no, we've just decided to just feed the 415 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 3: people to a fucking meek grinder. 416 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it gets me to my next fucking trauma dump, 417 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 2: the sick an outbreak before the Yeah, yeah they're back. 418 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: Okay. 419 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 2: So yeah, as me I mentioned, right, these are places 420 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 2: that the US considers to be dictatorial or impressive regimes 421 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 2: right around Venezuela, Cuba three that come to mind of 422 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 2: people that I met, right, And so a lot of 423 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 2: these people have what's called a temporary protected states in 424 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 2: the US. It doesn't mean that they necessarily can't be deported. 425 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 2: Sometimes they can, but sometimes it makes it a bit 426 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 2: harder right to deport to those countries. Panama, it's not 427 00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 2: governed by United States immigration law. Yeah, we gave On 428 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 2: the day that Molino took office, Alejandro Majorcas, himself the 429 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 2: child of minrants from Cuba, I believe, went to Panama, 430 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 2: attended the inauguration, and then announced this six million dollar 431 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 2: aid package right which the US was going to give 432 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 2: to fun deportations from Panama directly. And I got to 433 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 2: see those deportations happening, right, like you'll hear them in 434 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 2: my scripted series. But like watching somebody take a dad 435 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: away from his baby, or a mother away from her children, 436 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 2: or one man's brother away from his brother. Like it's 437 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 2: just heartbreaking. These people have crossed the daddy in right. 438 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 2: They've undertaken a journey. Like I've done a lot of mountaineering. 439 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 2: I've done a lot of climbing. I like to fuck 440 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 2: around outside, but like, I've never done anything where I 441 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 2: didn't know if I was going to come back. Really, 442 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 2: and like they've done that. They've taken this incredibly difficult journey. 443 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 2: And then when they get to the other side, you you, you, you, 444 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 2: and you, they get picked out and they get deported 445 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 2: back right on flights that are paid for by your 446 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 2: tax dollars and my tax dollars. And this includes flights 447 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 2: to Cuba. This includes flights to Venezuela, right places that 448 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 2: the US considers to be like dictatorial regimes. And now 449 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 2: these people are back in Cuba. They're back in Venezuela, 450 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 2: but their government knows that they tried to leave and 451 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 2: they've spent all their fucking savings, so they're back in 452 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 2: square one. I spoke to a few Colombians. They've also 453 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 2: deported a lot of Colombian people most of the Colombian 454 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 2: people I spoke to in last Blancats were deported. They 455 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 2: called all the Colombian nationals to choose the office and 456 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 2: then these I was told that they were only deporting 457 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 2: people who had like warrants, like pending cases. But when 458 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 2: these people got back to Colombia, they were just free 459 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 2: to go, right, Like if you have a pending case 460 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 2: and someone delivers you to the government. I'm not an 461 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 2: expert in Colombian law enforcement, but it seems like that 462 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,239 Speaker 2: would be a good time to prosecute that case. And 463 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 2: these people tell me that they've been let go. None 464 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 2: of them told me if they had warrants. Now, like, 465 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 2: I'm just going off what they said. But that night 466 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 2: they were texting me pictures themselves in handcuffs. By the 467 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 2: next day they were back in medine telling me that 468 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 2: they'd been sent home, including like I was talking to 469 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 2: a lady just before we recorded, who she doesn't know 470 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 2: where her children's father, her husband is right, And lots 471 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 2: of people will have like I guess what's the English translation, 472 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 2: like free unions, Like when they're like married for legal reasons, 473 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 2: they don't go and have a wedding, but they're considered 474 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 2: to be married common law marriage, I guess would be 475 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 2: the phrase, right, like they've lived together for a number 476 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 2: of years, share a house, etc. Often have children, but 477 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 2: they're not like they never had a wedding. So I 478 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 2: don't know if that document makes difference, But I watched 479 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 2: people have their children taken out their arms and be 480 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 2: shoved in the back of trucks and be deported, and like, 481 00:24:54,680 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 2: that fucking sucks. That is not something that I want 482 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 2: to see again. And it happens every single day there, 483 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 2: and it happens because your taxes are paying for it. 484 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 2: Didn't used to happen, and now it does, and it's 485 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 2: just heartbreaking. Like I don't really like it's there's nothing 486 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,199 Speaker 2: you can do. You know that there's no you know, 487 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 2: I can't do anything to stop it. You can't do 488 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 2: anything to stop it, right, Like what you can vote 489 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 2: for Donald Trump, who would like to machine gun every 490 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 2: asylum secret at the border if you got a chance, 491 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 2: Or you can vote to Kamala Harris, who has presided 492 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 2: over record migrant deaths every year of her administration, who's 493 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,120 Speaker 2: sending your money to port people in Panama, who knows 494 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 2: that the choices that she's made are resulting in like 495 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 2: death in Panama, death here right, Like there were four 496 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 2: people who died, and then the heat wave in the 497 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 2: first week of September, four people who died in o 498 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 2: Time mount and wilderness in a tiny area ten miles 499 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,719 Speaker 2: across of border in San Diego, and my friends had 500 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 2: to go insert their bodies, and my friends found their remains, 501 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 2: and I had to confront the fact that, like, this 502 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: is the toll of the rhetoric, Like this is what 503 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 2: the rhetoric costs. The other thing I want to mention 504 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 2: is that like, even in the most desperate moments of 505 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 2: their lives, everyone looked out for one another in a 506 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 2: way that like we don't hear. Like one of the 507 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 2: things that really struck me was that, like everyone's kids 508 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,120 Speaker 2: are just kind of out and about, right, no one's 509 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 2: particularly afraid of anyone hurting their kids, Like all of 510 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 2: these kids. And I saw people who had got split 511 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 2: up in the Gap find each other again in Bahochikito, 512 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 2: and like, you know, there were strangers who had carried 513 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 2: someone's children for two days because that other person was 514 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 2: so tired or they had another child they needed to carry, 515 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 2: and like, yeah, I'm strangely comfortable, I guess in refugee camps, 516 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 2: Like I went to Panama City afterwards, and like I 517 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 2: couldn't have it. It was too much for me, and I 518 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 2: had to stay in my hotel room and like I 519 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 2: guess it was just difficult. But like I feel safe 520 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: in those places. I feel comfortable, and like in a 521 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 2: sense it's well, you see the best of us and 522 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 2: the worst of us. I guess, like I can't imagine 523 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 2: being in a place where I know I could lose 524 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,479 Speaker 2: my life if I slip and fall, and then thinking well, 525 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 2: I've got to carry this little kid. 526 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: Never met this kid before. I don't share a language. 527 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: You know. 528 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 2: There was a group from Angola and they'd been carrying 529 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 2: Venezuelan and children. Right, they can't even talk to one another, 530 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 2: but they potentially. 531 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 3: Risk their lives to help. Yeah, it's it's it's pretty 532 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 3: fucking bleak. 533 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 2: I'm staying in touch with everyone I met, and they're 534 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 2: telling me about their journeys to the border. Unfortunately, the 535 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 2: thing that comes next is eight to nine month delay 536 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 2: as they apply for a CVP one appointment, And like 537 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 2: I wish I could offer something hopeful. I guess what 538 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 2: I'll say is what I always say that, like there 539 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 2: isn't anyone you can vote for who will fix this, 540 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 2: Like you can vote for Coil West with Jill Stein, 541 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 2: Like I'm not going to vote for someone who fucking 542 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 2: supports the policy sort of creating refugees in Syria, right whatever, 543 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting that that's a solution either. Like the 544 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 2: things that you need to do are like there is 545 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 2: a person helping migrants in your community. I spoke to 546 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 2: a Jesuit shelter. I'll put them in my scripted episode. 547 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 2: Like I'm not a big religious shelter guy, but these 548 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 2: guys were fucking great. These guys are saving people's lives 549 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 2: and making sure that people have the basic necessity like 550 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 2: literally turning up at the refuge camp and making sure 551 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 2: everyone had toilet roll and toothbrushes and things that, yeah, 552 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 2: you don't need for one night, but you're going to 553 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 2: be there for a month you don't have. You know, 554 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 2: what are you going to do? Spend five bucks on 555 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 2: toothbrush and toothpaste, But that's five less bucks you have 556 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 2: for your bus fare, right So, like I'll put them 557 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 2: out there. I would love to do a fundraiser, Like 558 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 2: if anyone can work out how to facilitate transfers to 559 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 2: migrants who are in the camp for free. That would 560 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 2: be great, Uh, Like that would be a service that 561 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 2: would make things considerably easier for people. But the way 562 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 2: that you fix this is showing up, Like it's showing 563 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 2: up at the border if you live near the border, 564 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 2: it's showing up in your community. It's countering this like 565 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 2: with people in your family and your circle, Like there's 566 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 2: a tacit agreement. I think in the entire corporate media 567 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 2: that migrants are humans without rights, Like they're just numbers 568 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 2: to these people, because I don't see them talking to migrants, right, 569 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 2: Like these are people who you know, like I help 570 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 2: them change their babies, I carried their bags for them, 571 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 2: I played with their kids so they could go take 572 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 2: a shower like that. They're people just like anyone else. 573 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 2: Of course they are right that, Like, Yeah, they're important 574 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 2: to me, and it's fucking miserable to see my tax 575 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 2: dollars used to make these people suffer. 576 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, these people should be more important than the fucking 577 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 3: sons of boat dealers. Who's fucking got the land they 578 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 3: live because their ancestors fucking shot a bunch of people. Yeah, 579 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,479 Speaker 3: like that's That's what's happening here, is that these people 580 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 3: who are you know, some of the most courageous people 581 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 3: in the entire world, are being sacrificed to appease a 582 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 3: bunch of fucking shits. It's a level of evil that 583 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 3: is just unfathomable. Yeah, I think, like we really shouldn't. 584 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 2: I'm somewhat ranting now, but like, yeah, the pivot that 585 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 2: even the Democrats have done in the last four years, 586 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 2: right like, those people need to be held accountable for 587 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 2: what is resulting in like babies dying. 588 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: Like I saw dead kids. 589 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 2: I saw that because Kamala Harris and Joe Biden whichever 590 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 2: other fucking Democrat senators and representatives keep voting for this shit, 591 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 2: decided that it was okay for those babies to die 592 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 2: because they didn't want Fox News to say mean stuff 593 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 2: about them or NBC to say mean stuff about them, 594 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 2: right like, And of course they're trying to move that 595 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 2: stuff as far away from you as possible. Of course 596 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 2: they want the deportations to be done in Panama, not here, 597 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 2: so you don't see it in your community. 598 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: And of course they want people. 599 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 2: To die a crossing the Darien and not on our 600 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 2: border because that's removed, and you don't hear it reported 601 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 2: on right, Like it's not a Venezuelan woman died on Thursday. 602 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 2: We're recording this on Tuesday, like Wednesday. You don't see 603 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 2: that reported, right, You don't see that there are little kids' 604 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 2: bodies in the jungle reported because it's out of sight 605 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 2: and out of mind, And like, I guess the thing 606 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 2: you can do is constantly bring it back into people's 607 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 2: minds and make them accountable for their choices. And like, 608 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 2: I guess this is the point where the electoralists get 609 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 2: mad at me. I'm not voting for someone who chose that, yeah, Like, 610 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 2: and I never could, Like I couldn't live with myself 611 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 2: if I did. I know a system which reduces our 612 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 2: political engagement taking a box every four years is asinine 613 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 2: and child like, Like I would much rather be out 614 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 2: there every day helping people than voting once every four years. 615 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 2: And like, you can do both, of course you can. 616 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 2: But yeah, there's not a voting solution for this, Like 617 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 2: it requires all of us to do a lot of 618 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 2: work because we're so far down the path which ends 619 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 2: in a really terrible place. Right, it's already a terrible 620 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 2: place that these people's lives don't matter, and that their 621 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 2: children's lives don't matter, and that we shouldn't care if 622 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,719 Speaker 2: they're dying in the jungle. And we've got a lot 623 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 2: of work to do to get back from that, because 624 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 2: apparently it's okay with a lot of people in this country. 625 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think part of the reason why it's gotten 626 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 3: this bad is that the social movements that had pushed 627 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 3: the Democrats in a slightly better direction in the late 628 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 3: twenty tens stopped social movement thing. So you know, the 629 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 3: only thing that these people will respond to is like 630 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 3: they're actually being mass mutilizations and them be feeling politically 631 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 3: threatened by it. So you know, we've done it before, 632 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 3: we can do it again. 633 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 634 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 2: The biggest march in this country's history was the March 635 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 2: of migrants, Right, we can do that again. So many 636 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 2: of us, myself included, came here to have a chance 637 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 2: a better future. And like, even if you didn't share 638 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 2: some solidarity with people like showing up in massive numbers, 639 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 2: Yet these movement stopped social movementing and people fell out 640 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 2: of a little things. But like, this shit is important, 641 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 2: and I think we can build some bridges and we 642 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 2: need to do something to stop this because it's horrific. Yeah, 643 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 2: and so it's a genocide in Ghaza, like we can. 644 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 2: We need to do something to stop that too, but 645 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 2: we're not going to do it through voting. 646 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 4: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 647 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 4: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 648 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 4: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 649 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 4: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 650 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 4: You can now find sources for It Could Happen Here 651 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 4: listened directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.