Speaker 1: Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: When Olie's Home Center hardware store on far Oaks Avenue
Speaker 2: went up in flames on the evening of October tenth,
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four, in South Pasadena, California, the fire destroyed
Speaker 2: the building and killed four people inside. Arson investigators declared
Speaker 2: the cause was electrical in nature and that it was accidental,
Speaker 2: but a man named John Orr disagreed with that assessment
Speaker 2: and was sure that it was set intentionally. John Orr
Speaker 2: is a former firefighter, fire captain, and arson investigator. He's
Speaker 2: also a convicted serial arsonist, and the hardware store is
Speaker 2: just one example of his crimes. He knew the store
Speaker 2: fire was arson because he himself had ignited it or
Speaker 2: set roughly too thousand fires in the Glendale, California area,
Speaker 2: primarily between nineteen eighty four and nineteen ninety one. He
Speaker 2: would set a fire and then he'd be part of
Speaker 2: the team that investigated it. His peers at first thought
Speaker 2: he had an uncanny knack for finding a fire's point
Speaker 2: of origin. When Or was caught after his fingerprint was
Speaker 2: found at a crime scene, he was charged and convicted
Speaker 2: on four counts of first degree murder and multiple multiple
Speaker 2: counts of arson. Sentenced without parole. It's expected he'll be
Speaker 2: incarcerated for the remainder of his life. His fire setting
Speaker 2: is unsettling, but he's actually part of a phenomenon firefighter
Speaker 2: arson and it's what we're talking about in this episode.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Criminalia. I'm Maria Tremarky.
Speaker 1: And I'm Holly Frye. Firefighters who set fires officially called
Speaker 1: firefighter arsonists. That's not a new thing. Matthew Hines Aldrich,
Speaker 1: lead author on the twenty eleven National Volunteer Fire Council's
Speaker 1: Report on the Firefight Arson Problem and self titled Chief
Speaker 1: Fire Data Nerd, explains that firefighter arsenists date at least
Speaker 1: back to the eighteen thirties. That's when you first see
Speaker 1: reports in the historical record of a farm laborer who
Speaker 1: was also a part time firefighter who was also executed
Speaker 1: for setting a series of fires. Today, the percent of
Speaker 1: arsenists among the estimated one point two million firefighters in
Speaker 1: the United States is very small, but they still have
Speaker 1: a significant impact on both their communities and their units.
Speaker 1: According to now retired arson investigator and profiler Edward Nordskog quote,
Speaker 1: there's roughly one hundred firefighter arsenists convicted every year in
Speaker 1: North America, and all of them are serial arsonists, which
Speaker 1: means three or more fires. John Orr, who Maria mentioned
Speaker 1: in that opening, is considered one of the most prolific,
Speaker 1: if not the most prolific firefighter arsenist in history.
Speaker 2: So how does this happen? How does a firefighter turn
Speaker 2: into an arsonist? Well, let's take a look. While insurance
Speaker 2: fraud and personal profit are a few common motives for
Speaker 2: arson outside the firefighting community, investigators say those aren't necessarily
Speaker 2: what drive firefighter arsenists. In nineteen fifty one, Columbia University
Speaker 2: psychiatrists Noel Lewis and Helen Yarnell published the results of
Speaker 2: a first of its kind, large scale study of arsenists,
Speaker 2: and they concluded that overall, arsenists were quote weak individuals.
Speaker 2: Firefighter arsenists, in their findings, were even more problematic. Lewis
Speaker 2: and Yarnell's research concluded these arsenists specifically were quote little
Speaker 2: men with grandiose social ambitions whose natural equipment dooms them
Speaker 2: to insignificance. As additional research was and is conducted, though
Speaker 2: expert beliefs have evolved from categorizing the cause as weakness
Speaker 2: to an answer that's just not so simple.
Speaker 1: Multiple psychological studies have been conducted in more recent decades
Speaker 1: since the nineteen fifties to determine why someone becomes a
Speaker 1: firefighter arsenist. Even with a developed FBI profile, which we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about in just a minute, still, the
Speaker 1: majority of psychological evaluations that have been used to try
Speaker 1: to determine if a person will become a firefighter arsenist,
Speaker 1: they fail at the task. Detective Joseph Kitzinger, head of
Speaker 1: the Arson Squad of the Suffolk County Police Department on
Speaker 1: Long Island, New York, has stated, quote to pinpoint what
Speaker 1: the actual motivation is, it's complicated. Experts who have studied
Speaker 1: arson by firefighters agree that it is not easy to
Speaker 1: determine what motivates a person to change from public servant
Speaker 1: to felon. Former Connecticut at State Police Sergeant James Butterworth,
Speaker 1: who spent years assigned to the State Fire Marshal's office,
Speaker 1: adds that in his experience, quote, most don't want to
Speaker 1: hurt anyone or cause anyone a loss of income. These
Speaker 1: are people who usually begin as highly motivated and highly
Speaker 1: trained firefighters. Current research shows that most firefighter arsonists don't
Speaker 1: actually consider setting fires until after they have joined the
Speaker 1: fire service, and the impulse usually develops within their first
Speaker 1: few months or years on the job.
Speaker 2: So this profile. In the nineteen nineties, the Federal Bureau
Speaker 2: of Investigation's Behavior Analysis Unit conducted a series of interviews
Speaker 2: with incarcerated firefighter arsonists, which they then used to outline
Speaker 2: characteristics of firefighters and firefighter candidates most at risk for
Speaker 2: becoming fire setters. When they released that profile in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety four, it included these nine actress okay, so. One.
Speaker 2: They noted most offenders are white males between the ages
Speaker 2: of seventeen and twenty five, And this makes sense when
Speaker 2: you consider that in the United States, nearly all more
Speaker 2: than ninety five percent of firefighters identify as male, and
Speaker 2: eighty five percent are white.
Speaker 1: Two.
Speaker 2: One or both parents were missing from the home during
Speaker 2: that firefighter's childhood. If they grew up in an intact home,
Speaker 2: the FBI described the emotional atmosphere as likely mixed and unstable. Three.
Speaker 2: Many have a cold, distant, hostile, or aggressive relationship with
Speaker 2: their biological father. Four they have poor marital adjustment, or
Speaker 2: if they aren't married, it's likely they live with their parents.
Speaker 2: Five they lack stable interpersonal relationships. Six they have poor
Speaker 2: occupational adjustment, and also in regard to their work history,
Speaker 2: they often have experience working in menial labor jobs and
Speaker 2: racle positions or as skilled laborers. Seven they are interested
Speaker 2: in fire service in the context that it provides a
Speaker 2: stage for excitement, not for the public service.
Speaker 1: Eight they are.
Speaker 2: At a higher risk for alcoholism, childhood hyperactivity, depression, borderline
Speaker 2: personality disorder, and suicidal ideation. And last on their list,
Speaker 2: firefighter arsonists have average to hire intelligence but poor academic performance.
Speaker 2: So that is a lot to unpack. We're going to
Speaker 2: take a break for a word from our sponsor, and
Speaker 2: when we return, let's talk about this profile and the
Speaker 2: slight variations and expansions that have occurred since it was compiled.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Criminalia. Let's talk about that profile that
Speaker 1: Maria read about before the break, and let's also get
Speaker 1: into what motivates a firefighter to commit acts of arson
Speaker 1: and how it differs from arsonists in the general population.
Speaker 2: In the nineteen nineties, the FBI's National Center for the
Speaker 2: Analysis of Violent Crime developed a report in which they
Speaker 2: addressed the telltale signs a firefighter was intentionally setting fires.
Speaker 2: One hallmark was a large increase of fires within that
Speaker 2: fire department's area of operation. Their research also showed quote
Speaker 2: that the number one motive was excitement, especially among young
Speaker 2: firefighters who were eager to put their training to practical
Speaker 2: use and to be seen as heroes to fellow firefighters
Speaker 2: and the community they serve. Their research also corroborated that
Speaker 2: the firefighter arsonist is likely to have worked with the
Speaker 2: fire department for only a short time they reported less
Speaker 2: than three years. Their report also described that most of
Speaker 2: and firefighter arsenists follow a pattern. They begin by setting
Speaker 2: small fires like dumpster fires or brush fires. The FBI
Speaker 2: describes these as nuisance fires. The firefighter arsenist would then
Speaker 2: advance to more serious cases, such as igniting vehicles or buildings.
Speaker 1: The National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime concluded
Speaker 1: that the desire to be respected by their peers and
Speaker 1: to show how proficient they are in their trade is
Speaker 1: what often leads a firefighter to become an arsonist. So
Speaker 1: let's talk about how the hero complex comes into play here.
Speaker 1: Also called arson do to vanity. Problems can develop when
Speaker 1: a firefighter seeks praise or attention from their community for
Speaker 1: doing their job. Some profiles of firefighter arsenists call them
Speaker 1: vanity fire setters and describe them as often being young
Speaker 1: and inexperienced, with an inclination toward drama or a need
Speaker 1: for an adrenaline rush. According to doctor k Our Fineman,
Speaker 1: a forensic and clinical psychologist, volunteer firefighters who commit arson
Speaker 1: often see themselves as outsiders and they have an intense
Speaker 1: need for approval. Many act alone in their crimes, but
Speaker 1: experts believe that when firefighter arson is a group effort,
Speaker 1: it's often a result or a consequence of young firefighters
Speaker 1: intense feelings of camaraderie and fraternity with those in their firehouse,
Speaker 1: says Fineman. Similarly to the report by the National Center
Speaker 1: for the Analysis of Violent Crime, quote they want so
Speaker 1: very much to prove themselves and be seen not just
Speaker 1: as a hero, but as someone who is doing the
Speaker 1: work properly. A two thousand and three report by the
Speaker 1: United States Fire Administration echoes this and states that quote
Speaker 1: their main reason for lighting the fire is so they
Speaker 1: can appear as a hero. Either by being the first
Speaker 1: to spot the flames or by rescuing people and saving property.
Speaker 2: In addition to the hero complex factor in firefighter arson cases,
Speaker 2: boredom is also a factor, as fire departments in rural
Speaker 2: towns and suburbs may not have many opportunities to roll
Speaker 2: out their equipment. Fires just may not occur very frequently
Speaker 2: in their region. Former arson investigator Nordskog has said of
Speaker 2: the phenomenon, quote, it's not uncommon for a firefighter to
Speaker 2: not see a fire for months at a time, and
Speaker 2: boredom sets in. Stephen wolutis, a lawyer in Comac, New York,
Speaker 2: has represented firefighter arsonists in court and agrees competitiveness can
Speaker 2: drive a young firefighter. He has said, quote, firefighters would
Speaker 2: go to many tournaments with other fire departments, and some
Speaker 2: were ribbed at how inactive their fire department was, how
Speaker 2: they didn't have a lot of fires.
Speaker 1: So there's the hero complex, then there's the desire for excitement,
Speaker 1: and then there's also the problem of family tradition. Nordskog,
Speaker 1: whose work includes improving the profile of firefighter arsenists, has
Speaker 1: explained that family legacy, which is common in protective services
Speaker 1: works such as firefighting and law enforcement can also sometimes
Speaker 1: be a factor. He stated, quote, some of these guys
Speaker 1: are trying to live up to the war stories of
Speaker 1: their parents or uncles who may have been in the
Speaker 1: fire service in the past.
Speaker 2: Daniel Aber is a retired agent who worked with the
Speaker 2: Department of Justices Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Speaker 2: as an arsen and explosives investigator for many of his
Speaker 2: twenty seven years in law enforcement. Of the motivations affecting
Speaker 2: firefighter arsonists, he like other current experts, agrees that most
Speaker 2: firefighters who engage in arson do so out of boredom
Speaker 2: or competitiveness, but he also adds that some, under a
Speaker 2: misguided guys believe that it will help with a fire
Speaker 2: unit's training efforts. Lighting fires illegally is a felony, whether
Speaker 2: the arsonist is a firefighter or not. Aber has stated
Speaker 2: to potential and active firefighter arsonists quote, understand this, This
Speaker 2: is not a game. It is a crime. You will
Speaker 2: be caught at some point and no mercy will come
Speaker 2: your way.
Speaker 1: On that severe statement, We're going to take a break
Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsor, and when we return
Speaker 1: we'll discuss how and why the profile that's been created
Speaker 1: isn't really working, and how firehouses have historically dealt with
Speaker 1: in house firefighter arsenists.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to criminalia. We've talked about what experts have
Speaker 2: learned about the problem, so now let's talk about how
Speaker 2: they're trying to fix it.
Speaker 1: Firefighters who intentionally light illegal fires are a bit of
Speaker 1: a contradiction researchers, universities, the FBI. Many people have been
Speaker 1: studying them for years to try to better understand them.
Speaker 1: Retired FBI arson analyst Timothy Huff has written about the
Speaker 1: importance of candidates screening and background checks and a need
Speaker 1: for increased awareness and action among firehouses to proactively face
Speaker 1: this problem. Experts have tried for years to use available
Speaker 1: research to identify who's an arson risk before they become
Speaker 1: a firefighter, but with little luck. Retired arson and explosives
Speaker 1: investigator A Bear has said of the phenomenon, quote, it
Speaker 1: happens more than you think. Really, it goes on way
Speaker 1: more than anyone knows. We don't know about most of.
Speaker 2: Them, Describing what it's like hiring and managing firefighters. Albert Lampy,
Speaker 2: former chief of the Edison Division of Fire in New
Speaker 2: Jersey has explained that the law allowed him as chief
Speaker 2: to really scrutinize his paid employees much more rigorously than
Speaker 2: volunteer firefighters and candidates. Said Lampy quote, it's hard to
Speaker 2: deny someone when they want to be a volunteer, but
Speaker 2: you can't require a volunteer to submit to psychological testing
Speaker 2: and other screening procedures. Volunteer applicants, just like professional applicants,
Speaker 2: must pass the Candidate Physical Ability Test, which assesses your
Speaker 2: ability to physically do the job. Candidates also must pass
Speaker 2: a written test designed to evaluate basically two things. A
Speaker 2: person's cognitive abilities, such as your ability to read and
Speaker 2: understand policies and directives and tactical plans, and it also
Speaker 2: evaluates your non cognitive traits, such as whether or not
Speaker 2: you're a team player, but there's little emphasis placed on
Speaker 2: psychological evaluation.
Speaker 1: Today, the latest research is being used to educate fire
Speaker 1: departments about the arson phenomenon and how to end what
Speaker 1: some experts call a culture of inside firehouses. According to
Speaker 1: a bear quote, there's a mentality among firefighters to protect
Speaker 1: your own and though it's not something that's spoken about,
Speaker 1: some fire units quietly push out firefighters when they suspect
Speaker 1: them of arson. Some units historically have chosen to deal
Speaker 1: with the problem internally. But here's the thing. Many incidents
Speaker 1: are unreported, and that is how it's been for a
Speaker 1: long time. Nordskog, who tracks serial arson cases, has stated
Speaker 1: that quote most law enforcement records don't routinely differentiate between
Speaker 1: arsenists who are firefighters and those who are not, and
Speaker 1: of those known to be firefighter arsenists, he explains, quote,
Speaker 1: fire agencies historically hide these states. Heinz Aldrich of the
Speaker 1: unhealthy culture. Quote. This has long been a taboo topic
Speaker 1: in the fire service.
Speaker 2: Now retired New Hampshire State Fire Marshal Bill Degnan has
Speaker 2: stated quote, I feel very strongly that an arsonist needs
Speaker 2: to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Speaker 2: He's also said that he has quote no patience and
Speaker 2: zero compassion for arson and personally believes the crime is
Speaker 2: more egregious when it's committed by a firefighter. According to Degnant, quote,
Speaker 2: they're in a position of public trust. Whether they're full
Speaker 2: time paid firefighters or their volunteers, they should all be
Speaker 2: held to the same standard.
Speaker 1: Some experts have recommended national databases or tracking systems to
Speaker 1: be implemented, but without a comprehensive psychological evaluation for all
Speaker 1: firefighters during the onboarding and hiring process. Those who study
Speaker 1: the phenomenon believe fire units will continue to fail to
Speaker 1: eliminate any in every candidate who is likely to be
Speaker 1: or become an arsonist. In some jurisdictions. In some states
Speaker 1: in the US, firefighter arsen task forces have been established,
Speaker 1: and they focus on training and education as well as
Speaker 1: things like how to conduct an appropriate background check. Retired
Speaker 1: fire Commissioner David Fischler of the Suffolk County Department of Fire,
Speaker 1: Rescue and Emergency Services has said, quote, there are people
Speaker 1: who are bad apples in any profession. Anytime we can
Speaker 1: stop just one person, it's a success.
Speaker 2: So I hear, we have a tasty drink to go
Speaker 2: along with this.
Speaker 1: Listen, it's very delicious. It is not a hot thing.
Speaker 1: It has no holapana or smoke note at all. But
Speaker 1: I was trying to think of something because this is
Speaker 1: one of those things that for me and I suspect
Speaker 1: a lot of other people is a scary topic. Yes,
Speaker 1: the idea that the people that are sworn to protect
Speaker 1: you are in fact not going to do that is upsetting.
Speaker 1: So I thought, maybe while we deal with these issues,
Speaker 1: we have a drink that is comforting and delicious. I
Speaker 1: was thinking about that phrase regarding bad apples. I will
Speaker 1: say this. I'm calling it the bad Apple, but like,
Speaker 1: that's not a very original name for a drink, and
Speaker 1: I know that there are a lot of drinks called
Speaker 1: bad apple. But this is our version, and it starts
Speaker 1: with things we have not put in a drink before.
Speaker 1: And you're gonna be like, Holly, you might have lost
Speaker 1: it finally, or maybe you've always thought I had, but
Speaker 1: this does something really lovely. So you're actually gonna start
Speaker 1: with a half a cup of apple sauce, throw that
Speaker 1: in your shaking tin, and then add in two ounces
Speaker 1: of vodka and let that sit while you're getting your
Speaker 1: other stuff together. Give it a stir. You can also,
Speaker 1: if you want to, like kick it up a little
Speaker 1: and make it fen sy, add a couple of drops
Speaker 1: of bitters. I have a bitter called Golden Bitters, and
Speaker 1: it's got like cardamom and like very warm but soft
Speaker 1: notes to it. So if you want to, you can
Speaker 1: literally just add cardamom or something from your spice rack
Speaker 1: or your spice cabinet and that works too, So again,
Speaker 1: let that all sit together after a good stir, and
Speaker 1: then you will add to your shaking tin a half
Speaker 1: ounce of lemon juice, a half ounce of demarar syrup,
Speaker 1: and a half ounce of vanilla liqure, and then you'll
Speaker 1: put your ice in and you'll I would do a
Speaker 1: dry shake without ice first because that apple sauce does
Speaker 1: some things to the viscosity. And then I would add
Speaker 1: your ice and shake it so you get it nice
Speaker 1: and cold. And then you're obviously gonna have to double
Speaker 1: strain this. You don't want a slushy. You want something
Speaker 1: almost It takes on the notes of the apple sauce
Speaker 1: and some of the thickness from it, but it's still
Speaker 1: very liquid. It's not it's not putting ye inconsistency or
Speaker 1: heavy like that. So you're gonna double strain it, strain
Speaker 1: it basically over a mess strainer. I had to let
Speaker 1: mine sit for a few minutes and strain itself because
Speaker 1: that apple sauce does trap a lot of moisture. But
Speaker 1: then what you have do that over ice. It's such
Speaker 1: a beautiful drink because you get a lot of that
Speaker 1: beautiful apple flavor. That warm note if you've added the
Speaker 1: bitters or the cardamom does a really nice thing, and
Speaker 1: the vanilla finish like it's not too sweet. I didn't
Speaker 1: mention I would use unsweetened apple sauce. You literally just
Speaker 1: want pure ead apple involved. You don't want extra sugars
Speaker 1: in there. It's like a grown up version of an
Speaker 1: apple e drink that's not too candy like. It's like
Speaker 1: the flavor of apple without all the sugar, and that's
Speaker 1: really nice. So that is the bad apple. Here is
Speaker 1: how you do the mock tanpe. Oh yeah, I have
Speaker 1: been saying that I'm trying to ease off of things
Speaker 1: like cinnamon that are very obvious things, but this might
Speaker 1: be one where you can't avoid it. Because I would
Speaker 1: start with if your local store has like an apple
Speaker 1: tea that's great ours, which is just like a big
Speaker 1: chain grocery store, they only had an option that was
Speaker 1: apple with cinnamon in it, and that's fine, but just
Speaker 1: know and in that case you are you can use
Speaker 1: apple tea in lieu of that vodka. If you really
Speaker 1: only want regular apple sauce flavor, you can actually use
Speaker 1: water here and it's gonna be fine and then in
Speaker 1: lieu of vanilla liqueur, you're going to use vanilla syrup.
Speaker 1: But if you do that, you might want to dial
Speaker 1: back on the demurra a little bit. We already have
Speaker 1: only a half ounce, but you could pull it back
Speaker 1: to a quarter ounce to soften up the sweetness. Otherwise
Speaker 1: the bad apple. It will make you feel sort of comforted,
Speaker 1: even though you know that they're firefighter arsonists. Again, I
Speaker 1: feel compelled to note that it's a small, small percentage.
Speaker 2: Remember we set one hundred people in North America out
Speaker 2: of the one point two million in the United States.
Speaker 2: This is a small.
Speaker 1: Number, but small. But if you find that unsettling, of
Speaker 1: course it is. It's unsettling that anybody wants to see
Speaker 1: these kinds of things. Have a little drink, whether it's
Speaker 1: alcoholic or not, and just comfort yourself. We hope that
Speaker 1: you have enjoyed this time with us, even if it
Speaker 1: is unsettling information, and we will be right back here
Speaker 1: again next week with another story of arsen and I
Speaker 1: Know that a Little drinky poop. Criminalia is a production
Speaker 1: of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from Shondaland Audio, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.