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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey everyone, today we're sharing one of Rick Rubin's

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Speaker 1: most intimate conversations ever Unbroken record with Red Hot Chili

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Speaker 1: Peppers guitarist John Frushante. Rick last spoke to John back

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Speaker 1: in April when the Peppers were getting ready to release

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Speaker 1: Unlimited Love, their first record with Rushante in sixteen years.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't heard Rick series of individual interviews with

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Speaker 1: the band, I highly recommend you go back and listen.

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Speaker 1: Those conversations are a testament to the band's deep, soulful

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Speaker 1: connection and their unique creative partnership that has proven time

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Speaker 1: and again to soar as a result of Frushonte's songwriting

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Speaker 1: and gorgeous guitar work, and Frushante rejoining the band again

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Speaker 1: has reinvigorated the group. On April, first Unlimited Love debut

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Speaker 1: at number one in the US and fifteen other countries.

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Speaker 1: In July, the band anounced the release of a second

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Speaker 1: Rick Rubin produced album that's out today, Return of the

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Speaker 1: Dream Canteen. On today's episode, we'll here John Frushonte talk

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Speaker 1: about the making of Blood Sugar, Sex Magic and how

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Speaker 1: has contributions on slower, more melodic songs like Under the

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Speaker 1: Bridge and Breaking the Girl helped expand the Chili peppers

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Speaker 1: funk punk sound. John also talks candidly about the dark,

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Speaker 1: drug addicted years that followed the intense success of Blood Sugar,

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Speaker 1: and he explains how he was able to finally get

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Speaker 1: sober and rejoin the Chili Peppers to record their classic

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Speaker 1: commercial comeback album Californication. This is broken record liner notes

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Speaker 1: for the digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Rick Rubin

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Speaker 1: and John Frushonte And just a heads up, this is

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Speaker 1: part one of a two part conversation, so keep your

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Speaker 1: eye on our feed for part two soon. What's happened

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Speaker 1: to man? Hey? Rag? How are you feeling good? How

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Speaker 1: are you good? What's life on the road like these days?

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Speaker 1: It's been really good. Yeah, we're in a great like

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Speaker 1: playing has been really fun and you know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: a different kind of lifestyle, just like everything is aimed

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Speaker 1: towards being able to get up on stage and do that.

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Speaker 1: And it took me like about a month and a

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Speaker 1: half pretty much the whole European tour. Every time I

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Speaker 1: walked out into one of those stadiums to play, I

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Speaker 1: was shocked about the amount of people, you know, like,

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Speaker 1: like I thought we had played stadiums before in Europe,

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Speaker 1: and now I realized we hadn't. Maybe we'd played some festival,

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Speaker 1: we hadn't played anything that looked like that. Wow, every night,

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Speaker 1: that amount of energy coming from the people and putting

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Speaker 1: out what you feel like you have to put out.

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Speaker 1: It's just every day when I wake up, I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine going up on stage and in front of that

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Speaker 1: many people and doing that. But you just gradually build

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Speaker 1: yourself towards it throughout the day, and I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's just a real different state of mind. But I enjoy.

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Speaker 1: I enjoy practicing all the time. That's the main thing

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Speaker 1: I do, is just practice and the energy of the audience. Like,

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Speaker 1: can you use the energy coming from the audience to

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Speaker 1: channel that into what you're doing. Yeah, it seems like

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Speaker 1: that happens. That's what I'm preparing myself to take place,

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Speaker 1: because what I play when I'm practicing, it's not nearly

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Speaker 1: as intense. Ever, no matter what I warm up with,

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Speaker 1: it's not nearly as intense as what I do once

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Speaker 1: I'm up there. It's just like, I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: something about the people and the general feeling of happiness

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Speaker 1: that brings that out of me. And you can practice

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Speaker 1: all you want, but there's really no practice for doing

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Speaker 1: that other than doing it, you know, because there's no

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Speaker 1: way to simulate it. So yeah, I feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: just warming up. I'm looking forward to next year and stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, so, I think the last time we talked,

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Speaker 1: we were starting to talk about playing on albums and

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Speaker 1: we got through Mother's Milk and then we got distracted.

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Speaker 1: It never kept going exactly. So Mother's Milk. It was

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Speaker 1: not a great experience for you. And was that I

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Speaker 1: can't remember now. Was that your first time in a

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Speaker 1: proper recording studio recording or no, Well, the first time

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Speaker 1: was when we did the song Taste the Pain and

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Speaker 1: that went really well, Like did it in one take

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Speaker 1: and everything, you know, went really smoothly. Yeah. Michael Binhorn

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Speaker 1: was just hyped when we were making the record, and

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Speaker 1: he was taking on a lot of pressure. I think

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Speaker 1: he had put a lot of pressure on himself that

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Speaker 1: it's got to be the greatest album ever and all

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Speaker 1: this stuff, and he definitely imposed that on me and

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Speaker 1: me especially because I think he felt like I was

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Speaker 1: young and you know, he could really guide me and

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Speaker 1: stuff like this, and you know, so the album felt forced. I've,

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Speaker 1: you know, since doing interviews recently, I've kind of reflected

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Speaker 1: on that period, especially once we got on tour, because

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Speaker 1: once we started touring with Chad after the record had

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Speaker 1: come out and stuff, it really we really had a thing.

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Speaker 1: Like I think even a couple of years later, I

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Speaker 1: didn't appreciate what that was. I was such a fan

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Speaker 1: of the band before I was in the band that

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Speaker 1: I thought of the magic of that band really highly

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Speaker 1: with Helleo and Jack. But I recently heard, just heard.

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Speaker 1: I listened to one song of us around that time

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Speaker 1: of the Mother's Milk tour, doing what was usually our

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Speaker 1: first song back then, the first song they ever performed

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Speaker 1: on stage out in LA and Man, I was like, wow,

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Speaker 1: we were really good. I was like I was because

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Speaker 1: I always think I was bad at that time, and

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Speaker 1: I listened back to it and I was like, Wow,

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Speaker 1: we really had something that that that that other band

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Speaker 1: didn't have, Like we had this very intense energy, like

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Speaker 1: there was something kind of mellow in comparison about about

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Speaker 1: the previous band, Like we really did play every note

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Speaker 1: like it was going to be our last, Like there

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Speaker 1: was this passion and intensity, and I don't know, considering

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Speaker 1: that it was basically funk music and that we were

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Speaker 1: playing it that hard, I just don't feel like there's

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Speaker 1: ever only been anything like it. And I even though

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Speaker 1: I had an ego about it at the time, I

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Speaker 1: don't think I really appreciated like how special it was.

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Speaker 1: And I think when I really felt like I found myself,

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Speaker 1: I kind of mellowed out a bit, you know, and

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Speaker 1: stopped pushing myself on the music so much. And but

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Speaker 1: there really was something we had then in eighty eight

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Speaker 1: eighty nine that was I guess, in particular eighty nine

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Speaker 1: that was really like powerful. I saw you guys at

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Speaker 1: the Greek Theater at that time and it was mind blowing.

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Speaker 1: Right Yeah. That was the very last show of that tour,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah. And I think part of it also

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Speaker 1: has to do with Chad, because if you think of

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Speaker 1: what drummers and funk bands sound like, like, you think

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Speaker 1: about James Brown's drummers, they're super groovy, but they played

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Speaker 1: almost like jazz, like, like very subdued groovy but not loud. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And Chad's rocking like crazy, which is not your typical

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Speaker 1: funk drum right, But he's got a he's got a

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Speaker 1: good funk feel, you know, it's incredible. It's a great combination. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just like there's this heaviness to it, but it's

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Speaker 1: still got this funk thing, but it's also got this

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Speaker 1: extra speed to it. And it was just there's all

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Speaker 1: four of us. It was just like it was a

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Speaker 1: real explosion when we came out on stage and there

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Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, somehow it took me like

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Speaker 1: thirty three years to realize to realize what that thing

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Speaker 1: was we had. Because there's other things about that period

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Speaker 1: of time, like I can be critical about myself in

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Speaker 1: the sense that I wasn't improvising as much as I

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Speaker 1: did after that, Like my solos weren't as like ever

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Speaker 1: since then. You know, when I play a solo, it's

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Speaker 1: usually pretty unique to that night. It's rare that I

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Speaker 1: do the same thing in the same place twice, you know,

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Speaker 1: And at that time, I feel like I wasn't ready

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Speaker 1: to take that risk. But that was part of the intensity.

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Speaker 1: It was so important to me that it was maximum

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Speaker 1: intensity all the time. When I did start improvising, there

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Speaker 1: was this feeling of like indifference to the outcome. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it feels much it feels much riskier to do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is, And like in nineteen eighty nine, I energetically

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Speaker 1: like the energy was the main thing to me, and

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Speaker 1: like I couldn't afford to let that energy slip at

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Speaker 1: all the way I felt, you know. So I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: glad I went. I'm glad I moved past that to

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Speaker 1: being able to relax and allow mistakes to happen and

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Speaker 1: allow allow myself to do a solo that's not great

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Speaker 1: in knowing that like taking the same risk the next

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Speaker 1: time a great one might come. You know. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: also makes sense that because you were such a big

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Speaker 1: fan of the original lineup of the band and knowing

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Speaker 1: you're just a different person. It's, you know, it's you

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Speaker 1: always feel like how do I fit in? You know,

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Speaker 1: how do I step up to this thing that I

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Speaker 1: love so much? It didn't it doesn't even really have

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Speaker 1: to do with how good of a guitar player you are,

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Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? It's like, those guys

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Speaker 1: do this thing that I love, and now I get

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Speaker 1: to do it. But it's weird, you know, it's just weird.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a weird thing. No, it's really strange and

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Speaker 1: Anthony and Fleet. All my memories of seeing them prior

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Speaker 1: to my being in the band, including had videotapes. I

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Speaker 1: managed to get a hold of of early live shows

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Speaker 1: of Theirs and stuff that I used to watch when

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Speaker 1: I was, you know, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, and they and

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Speaker 1: they still have it to this day. They have this

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Speaker 1: thing that happens on stage and in a way, they're

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Speaker 1: kind of like that in life too. They somehow simultaneously

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Speaker 1: appear to be trying very hard and at the same

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Speaker 1: time they seem like they're kicking back and they really

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Speaker 1: don't care about the impression they make on anybody, and

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Speaker 1: they're there to be themselves. Like there's this balance in

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Speaker 1: the persona of who they are on stage that somehow

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Speaker 1: has this combination of a careless, kind of relaxed, I

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Speaker 1: don't give a shit thing, and I'm trying really hard

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Speaker 1: at the same time to be the best entertainer I

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Speaker 1: can be up here. It's a it's something. It's yeah,

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Speaker 1: it seems contradictory, and so coming into it, I think

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Speaker 1: my first thought was that I was going to be

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Speaker 1: as crazy as them on stage, you know, like, and

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Speaker 1: I think possibly the reason I didn't have that same

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Speaker 1: balance is because I think I cared a lot for

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Speaker 1: the reason that you're saying. You know, I couldn't have

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Speaker 1: that relaxed indifference. That's this very cool sense that I

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Speaker 1: used to get from them on stage. For me, if

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Speaker 1: I was going to go up there and go crazy,

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Speaker 1: that's all it was was a guy going crazy. There

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Speaker 1: was no cool kickback aspect to it. You know. It

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Speaker 1: just wasn't me being trying to be wild and crazy

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Speaker 1: like my it's not my personality and it wasn't the

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Speaker 1: best way for me to serve the overall chemistry of

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Speaker 1: the group, you know. So having a relaxed mental attitude

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Speaker 1: to the performance part, to the playing part, to everything

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Speaker 1: was what turned out to be best for everybody, I think.

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Speaker 1: But like I say, there was something about the fact

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Speaker 1: that I was just so all, you know, all out

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Speaker 1: in that first couple of years that you know, never

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Speaker 1: got that back again again, you know what I mean, Like, no,

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Speaker 1: but that it's cool and it's cool that that's a

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Speaker 1: period of time, and that's like you wouldn't change your

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Speaker 1: diary entries either, you know. It's like that's a moment

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Speaker 1: in time and that was then and now you get

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Speaker 1: to do this and it's great, and it's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's different versions of good. It's not like they're in

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Speaker 1: competition with each other. Yeah. I remember I went to

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Speaker 1: see Radiohead two nights in a row at Radio City Musical,

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Speaker 1: and the first night it looked like Tom York didn't

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Speaker 1: want to be there and he was just standing at

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Speaker 1: the mic and playing and singing and stone faced, not

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Speaker 1: moving perfectly still, and it just felt like he was

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Speaker 1: just waiting for the show to end. And then the

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Speaker 1: next night, which was the last show of the tour,

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Speaker 1: he was the most animated I've ever seen him, Like

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Speaker 1: it was the opposite person. Two nights in a row, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he was running all over and happy. It. It

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Speaker 1: was fascinating to see. I've had that same thing a

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Speaker 1: few times on this tour, Like I'm specifically DC to

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Speaker 1: Boston was the same thing as what you just described,

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Speaker 1: Like there's certain nights where for some reason, I can't

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Speaker 1: put any physical energy into the show, including just the

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Speaker 1: normal sort of crouched down, kind of leaning back kind

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Speaker 1: of stance that's pretty normal for Flee and I to

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Speaker 1: play in. And Anthony stands the same way too. It's

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Speaker 1: just like I can't even do that. I can just

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Speaker 1: stand there perfectly straight up and with my legs straight

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Speaker 1: and stand by Chad and just walk up to the

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Speaker 1: mic when it's time to sing or press an effect

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Speaker 1: and walk back to Chad after that, and just like

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Speaker 1: I can't look at the audience, I can't feel anything.

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Speaker 1: Probably the best that ever comes out of my playing

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Speaker 1: on a night like that is a kind of intensity

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Speaker 1: that comes out of anger that I just focus into

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Speaker 1: the playing, and I can't really enjoy it. But that's

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Speaker 1: probably if I listened back, I would imagine that would

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Speaker 1: be the redeeming part of the show. Is just some

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Speaker 1: sort of focus that can come from being in a

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Speaker 1: bad mood like that that I can put into my

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Speaker 1: lead playing in a certain way. But if that happens,

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Speaker 1: do you always know it's like, oh, I had this

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Speaker 1: argument earlier with someone and that's it. Or is it

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Speaker 1: just like a feeling you wake up that way and

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Speaker 1: it's not related to anything specific that you could point

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Speaker 1: finger at. Yeah, if I analyze it, I could have

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Speaker 1: a theory, but there's really like no way to know.

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Speaker 1: There's really no way to know. I sense it when

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Speaker 1: I'm walking towards the stage and when I'm on stage.

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Speaker 1: I realize it in that moment that I'm first on

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Speaker 1: stage and I realize, Okay, I'm in one of those

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Speaker 1: moods and I'm not going to be able to get

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Speaker 1: out of it, you know. And the same thing happens

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Speaker 1: to flee or you know, but he has a different

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Speaker 1: way of handling it, like he might go extra physically

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Speaker 1: crazy to work his way through it. For me, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't try to do that. I just uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: just stand there and get through it. And I'm sure

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Speaker 1: musically the show's great, Like it's it's great either way.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I've got definitely when I've had nights like that,

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Speaker 1: Anthony'll give me back some report like so and so

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Speaker 1: said that somebody who's seen us a lot of times.

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Speaker 1: So and so said it was the best show he's

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Speaker 1: ever seen of us. So you know, it's so I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm learning to just let it be that way when

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Speaker 1: it's a nice night like that, and don't beat myself

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Speaker 1: up about it while I'm on stage or anything. And

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Speaker 1: in my radio hit example, I can't say one show

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Speaker 1: was better than Together. It was right. I was going

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Speaker 1: to be interesting to see how different it could be. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah that so, yeah, the night following the night that

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking of in Boston, like like it was the freest,

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Speaker 1: most loosest I could imagine feeling on stage, like it

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Speaker 1: was particularly like one of the best shows of the tours.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes those maybe those nights are just to remind

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Speaker 1: myself to really be able to feel it completely, because

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Speaker 1: if you know, if you felt good every night, you

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Speaker 1: might never feel particular high because there isn't a load

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Speaker 1: of balance it for granted. Also, yeah, so there's something

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Speaker 1: about that. And it's like with meditation. You know, when

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Speaker 1: you sit to meditate. At the end of the meditation,

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Speaker 1: there is in a sense of sometimes we'll say to

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Speaker 1: ourselves or that was a good one, or that wasn't

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Speaker 1: a good one, and neither those are true. It's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's if you sat down to do it, you did it,

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Speaker 1: and that's all that matters. And then sometimes the experience

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Speaker 1: of it is euphoric, and other times it feels like

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Speaker 1: you don't go anywhere and that's what it's supposed to

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Speaker 1: be that day to get to the next one. It's

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Speaker 1: just the path on the road, you know. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a really hard concept for people to understand and

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Speaker 1: for you to try to make yourself always remember, is

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Speaker 1: that like that there's not a good and bad meditation,

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Speaker 1: you know, It's it's a hard thing to understand because

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Speaker 1: when your head is full of thoughts and you just

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Speaker 1: feel like this is not going well. But yeah, you

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Speaker 1: really never know. And I know it from history of

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Speaker 1: other bands too. I know, like certain nights when somebody

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Speaker 1: was you know, supposedly like not in a good mood

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Speaker 1: that night, and they played really good. It was just

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Speaker 1: different than how they normally played, you know. So I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I'm trying not to be too judgmental about it,

304
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Speaker 1: but it's not as fun, that's for sure. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: the band was really rocking after Mother's Milk Live and

306
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Speaker 1: now it's time to make the next album, and that's

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Speaker 1: when we started working together. And tell me from your perspective,

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Speaker 1: what was the experience like of making Blood Sugar Sex Magic. Well,

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Speaker 1: pretty much right around that time that we played at

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Speaker 1: the Greek, I guess we had. We took a couple

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Speaker 1: of months off, and during that couple of months I

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Speaker 1: really was And around that time, I remember I ran

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Speaker 1: into you at Canters when we weren't we didn't know

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Speaker 1: who was going to produce the record, and a lot

315
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Speaker 1: of things were lining up for me as a musician

316
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Speaker 1: and as a person right around that time, and I

317
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Speaker 1: just had I had some epiphanies in terms of taking

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Speaker 1: the direction of my playing and my songwriting in a

319
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Speaker 1: different in a different direction. We were so close by

320
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Speaker 1: that point as a as a band and as friends.

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Speaker 1: I didn't feel anymore like I had to prove myself

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Speaker 1: or to be to be what my idea of a

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Speaker 1: Chili Pepper was or anything. I was confident that in

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Speaker 1: my place in the band, and I felt like I

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Speaker 1: I wanted to try just being myself, even though I've

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Speaker 1: been gradually being more and more myself as a person

327
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Speaker 1: and as a musician as that tour went on. But

328
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Speaker 1: around that time, I was having all these realizations just

329
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Speaker 1: listening to music that was that was my favorite music

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Speaker 1: at the time, and that was different from what the

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Speaker 1: band was always listening to together, because we were always

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Speaker 1: we were always listening to like Curtis Mayfield, the Meters

333
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Speaker 1: Signed The Family, Stone zz Top, the Jesus Christ Superstar Soundtrack,

334
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Speaker 1: like different, different little things that we would listen to together.

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Speaker 1: That and even at home, that was a lot of

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Speaker 1: what I'd been listening to that Fishbone, you know, like,

337
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Speaker 1: and so I just started now the tour was over

338
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Speaker 1: and everything, and I was living in this house, living

339
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Speaker 1: in the in the Hollywood Hills for the first time,

340
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Speaker 1: and and just having really strong feelings listening to things

341
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Speaker 1: like The Velvet Underground and television and Peter Gabriel era Genesis,

342
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Speaker 1: and I was realizing that, like that, a lot of

343
00:19:01,716 --> 00:19:05,556
Speaker 1: power can come from from not hitting the strings super

344
00:19:05,556 --> 00:19:08,516
Speaker 1: hard all the time, you know, from from not filling

345
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Speaker 1: up all thiss with notes, from leaving big spaces listening

346
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Speaker 1: to that guitarist from Bow Wow Wow, and listening to

347
00:19:15,276 --> 00:19:18,036
Speaker 1: how how spacious is playing was and how well it

348
00:19:18,116 --> 00:19:20,556
Speaker 1: supported the bass. I've been a fan of them forever,

349
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Speaker 1: but just hadn't specifically wanted to play like that. And

350
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Speaker 1: so I was really starting to realize, like how much

351
00:19:30,036 --> 00:19:33,476
Speaker 1: music was starting to really produce these intense feelings inside me.

352
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Speaker 1: That that period only really lasted for a few years

353
00:19:36,636 --> 00:19:40,036
Speaker 1: where I really I had a kind of a synesthesia

354
00:19:40,236 --> 00:19:43,596
Speaker 1: where I could oftentimes it was seeing, but it was

355
00:19:43,636 --> 00:19:47,636
Speaker 1: something in between seeing and hearing in my brain that

356
00:19:48,276 --> 00:19:50,596
Speaker 1: if I put on a record, the feeling was produced.

357
00:19:50,876 --> 00:19:53,356
Speaker 1: If I put the needle back, the same exact feeling

358
00:19:53,676 --> 00:19:56,516
Speaker 1: was produced again, and it was like watching a movie

359
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Speaker 1: or something. So certain records were bringing up those feelings

360
00:20:00,516 --> 00:20:04,916
Speaker 1: really intensely, or that bringing up that phenomena, and so

361
00:20:04,956 --> 00:20:07,276
Speaker 1: those were the things I focused on. Captain Beefheart was

362
00:20:07,276 --> 00:20:09,716
Speaker 1: a real big one for me at the time that

363
00:20:09,836 --> 00:20:13,036
Speaker 1: was producing I think more of those types of sensations

364
00:20:13,076 --> 00:20:18,556
Speaker 1: than anything else was. So started writing things because I

365
00:20:18,636 --> 00:20:20,596
Speaker 1: knew it Flee and Anthony's taste so well, and I

366
00:20:20,676 --> 00:20:23,716
Speaker 1: knew the breadth of it, and I knew their open mindedness.

367
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Speaker 1: Like I was still trying to make stuff that I

368
00:20:26,636 --> 00:20:29,356
Speaker 1: thought they would like, as I still do today, but

369
00:20:29,476 --> 00:20:31,476
Speaker 1: I was coming from an angle that they weren't going

370
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Speaker 1: to expect, you know, And so like that, Breaking the

371
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Speaker 1: Girl's Song was one of the first things that I

372
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Speaker 1: wrote before we ever started rehearsing, and Funky Monk's song

373
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Speaker 1: was one that I sort of collaborated with Anthony. He

374
00:20:47,876 --> 00:20:51,076
Speaker 1: was playing the guitar part, but it was it wasn't

375
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Speaker 1: really the guitar part. It was just one finger and

376
00:20:53,076 --> 00:20:54,476
Speaker 1: he was hitting all the strings and he was going

377
00:20:54,556 --> 00:20:57,996
Speaker 1: bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum

378
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Speaker 1: bum bum bum. And so I took that basic rhythm

379
00:21:01,196 --> 00:21:04,796
Speaker 1: and made a thing out of it. And power of

380
00:21:04,796 --> 00:21:07,716
Speaker 1: Equality I think was the basic riff for that was

381
00:21:07,796 --> 00:21:09,596
Speaker 1: something I came up with early. And it was just

382
00:21:09,676 --> 00:21:13,196
Speaker 1: like I was really starting to understand how to get

383
00:21:13,276 --> 00:21:18,836
Speaker 1: power out of simplicity and wasn't trying to compete with

384
00:21:18,996 --> 00:21:21,756
Speaker 1: Flea as far as being busy and stuff like that.

385
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Speaker 1: It was one of those things where I finally had

386
00:21:24,476 --> 00:21:27,236
Speaker 1: it through my head like Flea's allowed to be busy somehow,

387
00:21:27,516 --> 00:21:29,596
Speaker 1: Like he can be busy and not sound like he's

388
00:21:29,636 --> 00:21:32,196
Speaker 1: showing off. If I do it, it sounds like I'm

389
00:21:32,236 --> 00:21:36,036
Speaker 1: eating into everybody else's space. You know. Was appreciating stuff

390
00:21:36,076 --> 00:21:39,356
Speaker 1: like led Zeppelin, where you noticed Jimmy Page is playing,

391
00:21:39,396 --> 00:21:42,116
Speaker 1: He's he gives so much space to the drums. He's

392
00:21:42,156 --> 00:21:45,356
Speaker 1: often not playing. He'll often hold a note and leave

393
00:21:45,396 --> 00:21:49,036
Speaker 1: it to allow the snare drum to be the maximum

394
00:21:49,236 --> 00:21:53,356
Speaker 1: size that it can be. And so, yeah, it was

395
00:21:53,516 --> 00:21:56,116
Speaker 1: putting all those things together in my head and that

396
00:21:56,836 --> 00:22:00,716
Speaker 1: having that synesthesia thing, and so when we started rehearsing,

397
00:22:00,756 --> 00:22:03,716
Speaker 1: just everything was falling into place like magic and yeah,

398
00:22:03,716 --> 00:22:07,676
Speaker 1: I had that talk with you. It canters and I

399
00:22:07,756 --> 00:22:10,316
Speaker 1: became really psyched about the I of you producing us,

400
00:22:10,356 --> 00:22:12,796
Speaker 1: and we all talked about it, and that's what everybody

401
00:22:12,796 --> 00:22:16,316
Speaker 1: wanted to do. And the real exciting thing that we

402
00:22:16,356 --> 00:22:19,596
Speaker 1: all noticed right off the bat was that you were

403
00:22:19,596 --> 00:22:23,116
Speaker 1: the opposite of what Michael Beinhorn had been. You. You

404
00:22:23,116 --> 00:22:26,836
Speaker 1: you weren't putting any pressure on us. You your skill

405
00:22:26,916 --> 00:22:29,876
Speaker 1: of listening was apparent immediately you were. You were there

406
00:22:29,876 --> 00:22:33,836
Speaker 1: to listen, and you had no thought to impose yourself

407
00:22:34,116 --> 00:22:36,916
Speaker 1: on the music or the direction at all. Like you

408
00:22:37,036 --> 00:22:40,756
Speaker 1: spoke when there was something you had to say, and

409
00:22:40,876 --> 00:22:43,436
Speaker 1: you were silent the rest of the time. And it

410
00:22:43,516 --> 00:22:46,596
Speaker 1: was really inspiring to us because that in a way,

411
00:22:46,636 --> 00:22:49,356
Speaker 1: that not pushing yourself on things. That's exactly what I

412
00:22:49,396 --> 00:22:51,556
Speaker 1: had come to right around that time when I ran

413
00:22:51,636 --> 00:22:55,916
Speaker 1: into Incannters, was like, Wow, like I don't need to

414
00:22:55,996 --> 00:22:58,436
Speaker 1: force myself on the music. I can. I can let

415
00:22:58,596 --> 00:23:03,916
Speaker 1: music happen without proposing to attack it, you know. And

416
00:23:03,996 --> 00:23:07,316
Speaker 1: me me playing that way made Flee sound better and

417
00:23:07,476 --> 00:23:11,236
Speaker 1: that inspired him and he backing off and not playing

418
00:23:11,276 --> 00:23:15,076
Speaker 1: quite as busy himself, and we all just got really

419
00:23:15,116 --> 00:23:19,636
Speaker 1: into listening to each other and supporting each other, and

420
00:23:19,676 --> 00:23:22,716
Speaker 1: so it was neat. It was like that time, I

421
00:23:22,716 --> 00:23:27,796
Speaker 1: guess in nineteen ninety we really started to realize what

422
00:23:27,836 --> 00:23:30,716
Speaker 1: we had as a band and what the chemistry was

423
00:23:31,356 --> 00:23:34,836
Speaker 1: that was completely separate, you know, like where in nineteen

424
00:23:34,836 --> 00:23:38,236
Speaker 1: eighty nine maybe it was just a more energetic, you know,

425
00:23:38,476 --> 00:23:41,556
Speaker 1: more powerful version of the same thing. Like this felt

426
00:23:41,636 --> 00:23:46,156
Speaker 1: like something that was unique to us. And not to

427
00:23:46,196 --> 00:23:48,316
Speaker 1: say that Jack and Hollel didn't have a huge influence

428
00:23:48,396 --> 00:23:51,276
Speaker 1: still on the basic parameters of what we were doing,

429
00:23:51,876 --> 00:23:53,956
Speaker 1: but we had fallen into a thing where we were

430
00:23:54,076 --> 00:23:57,316
Speaker 1: realizing who we were as a as a group, and

431
00:23:58,636 --> 00:24:02,676
Speaker 1: you being there just helped to solidify it and support it.

432
00:24:02,716 --> 00:24:05,596
Speaker 1: And every time you had an idea, it felt like

433
00:24:05,676 --> 00:24:08,076
Speaker 1: something that had to be said. And that's what I

434
00:24:08,116 --> 00:24:11,276
Speaker 1: was trying to do with my play, was like, if

435
00:24:11,276 --> 00:24:13,316
Speaker 1: you don't have anything to say, just play one note,

436
00:24:13,636 --> 00:24:16,596
Speaker 1: and if you hear that a second note needs to

437
00:24:16,636 --> 00:24:19,556
Speaker 1: be added, then play a second note, you know. And

438
00:24:19,836 --> 00:24:23,756
Speaker 1: seemed to me that that's that's how your contributions when

439
00:24:23,956 --> 00:24:28,836
Speaker 1: everything you did made a huge difference to the overall thing,

440
00:24:29,196 --> 00:24:32,196
Speaker 1: and a lot of it was about creating space. You know,

441
00:24:32,756 --> 00:24:34,756
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of your ideas had to

442
00:24:34,796 --> 00:24:38,516
Speaker 1: do with with like we were all being more conscious

443
00:24:38,516 --> 00:24:41,836
Speaker 1: of the space that we were creating between each other's

444
00:24:41,836 --> 00:24:46,076
Speaker 1: instruments and each other's notes, and you emphasized that that

445
00:24:46,236 --> 00:24:50,316
Speaker 1: same thing, like telling me not to play for a

446
00:24:50,316 --> 00:24:54,316
Speaker 1: whole verse, or telling you know, Chad to lay out

447
00:24:54,356 --> 00:24:56,396
Speaker 1: for this part, or Flee to lay out for this part,

448
00:24:56,556 --> 00:24:59,636
Speaker 1: or everybody to do a complete silent pause right here.

449
00:24:59,836 --> 00:25:02,396
Speaker 1: You know, Like all those kind of ideas were mind

450
00:25:02,436 --> 00:25:04,316
Speaker 1: blowing for us at the time. There were things we

451
00:25:04,396 --> 00:25:08,036
Speaker 1: never would have thought of, you know. And and your

452
00:25:08,036 --> 00:25:12,076
Speaker 1: whole drum machine what I perceived at the time, your

453
00:25:12,116 --> 00:25:14,476
Speaker 1: experience with drum machines, because I don't know how had

454
00:25:14,516 --> 00:25:16,716
Speaker 1: you worked with a lot of drummers at that point.

455
00:25:16,716 --> 00:25:19,476
Speaker 1: You had, well, mostly drum machines, right, yeah, so it

456
00:25:19,756 --> 00:25:23,436
Speaker 1: mostly programmed everything. Yeah, So it was really neat, like

457
00:25:23,596 --> 00:25:25,596
Speaker 1: you were when you were helping Chad with a kick

458
00:25:25,676 --> 00:25:29,596
Speaker 1: drum pattern or whatever, and like it really seemed like

459
00:25:29,716 --> 00:25:33,396
Speaker 1: it was this drum machine mentality going into a real drummer,

460
00:25:33,476 --> 00:25:36,716
Speaker 1: and it was. It was really inspiring, and it felt

461
00:25:36,716 --> 00:25:42,356
Speaker 1: really fresh and new, you know, and all that stuff

462
00:25:42,476 --> 00:25:44,756
Speaker 1: was really inspiring in that period of time of writing

463
00:25:44,796 --> 00:25:47,756
Speaker 1: that record, I think of as being like the happiest

464
00:25:48,196 --> 00:25:51,236
Speaker 1: time of being in the band, you know, in that

465
00:25:51,396 --> 00:25:55,236
Speaker 1: first period. That's great. I can remember being at the

466
00:25:55,236 --> 00:25:58,796
Speaker 1: alley one time exactly this story told I can't remember

467
00:25:58,836 --> 00:26:00,716
Speaker 1: what song it was, but I remember saying, and I

468
00:26:00,716 --> 00:26:04,076
Speaker 1: can't remember who I suggested it to, is like, Okay,

469
00:26:04,396 --> 00:26:06,596
Speaker 1: not everybody has to play from the beginning of the song.

470
00:26:07,476 --> 00:26:10,556
Speaker 1: What's it like if he lays out until the chorus

471
00:26:10,676 --> 00:26:12,716
Speaker 1: or John lays out till the course, Let's try. What

472
00:26:12,836 --> 00:26:14,476
Speaker 1: was it like if we lay out to the second verse?

473
00:26:14,516 --> 00:26:16,716
Speaker 1: What does it do? Let's hear it? Yeah, And just

474
00:26:16,796 --> 00:26:19,676
Speaker 1: like thinking about it, and I didn't have a idea

475
00:26:19,676 --> 00:26:21,516
Speaker 1: of what would work or not. It was just a

476
00:26:21,556 --> 00:26:24,276
Speaker 1: way of thinking of how can we create more space

477
00:26:24,916 --> 00:26:30,396
Speaker 1: and how can we do things that allow the material

478
00:26:30,476 --> 00:26:34,356
Speaker 1: to develop without having to keep adding more things later,

479
00:26:34,956 --> 00:26:36,956
Speaker 1: you know, like like if you take something away in

480
00:26:36,996 --> 00:26:41,036
Speaker 1: the beginning, then when the normal third instrument comes in,

481
00:26:42,196 --> 00:26:44,276
Speaker 1: it feels like an event and we haven't had to

482
00:26:44,276 --> 00:26:46,716
Speaker 1: add anything. We did it by taking something away. And

483
00:26:47,756 --> 00:26:50,316
Speaker 1: I remember I remember having that conversation. It felt like

484
00:26:50,316 --> 00:26:52,196
Speaker 1: it was a big deal at the time because it

485
00:26:52,556 --> 00:26:55,356
Speaker 1: whatever thing we were trying it on it worked. It

486
00:26:55,436 --> 00:26:57,716
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is a new tool in the

487
00:26:57,716 --> 00:27:00,836
Speaker 1: bag of tricks of things that can work. You know. Really,

488
00:27:00,876 --> 00:27:06,276
Speaker 1: and again, I think I'm assuming that your experience producing

489
00:27:06,436 --> 00:27:10,196
Speaker 1: hip hop was an influence on it because of the

490
00:27:10,236 --> 00:27:12,796
Speaker 1: constant muting and un muting that takes place when you're

491
00:27:12,836 --> 00:27:15,316
Speaker 1: making that kind of music. It was absolutely It was

492
00:27:15,356 --> 00:27:17,756
Speaker 1: basically like you were muting the guitar for the first

493
00:27:17,876 --> 00:27:21,716
Speaker 1: verse and saving it for the second verse. You know. Yeah,

494
00:27:21,756 --> 00:27:24,396
Speaker 1: Like we were all conscious that that was where you

495
00:27:24,436 --> 00:27:26,236
Speaker 1: were coming from, and it was so neat to hear

496
00:27:26,276 --> 00:27:29,196
Speaker 1: those ideas being applied to a rock band, you know,

497
00:27:29,436 --> 00:27:32,116
Speaker 1: like and yeah, it just made us think in a way,

498
00:27:32,156 --> 00:27:34,236
Speaker 1: it just wouldn't never have occurred to us. We write

499
00:27:34,236 --> 00:27:36,076
Speaker 1: the verse, that's what we play in the verse, you know.

500
00:27:36,156 --> 00:27:37,996
Speaker 1: We think of ourselves as a unit. We don't think

501
00:27:38,036 --> 00:27:42,516
Speaker 1: of ourselves as like separate. So it was it was

502
00:27:42,556 --> 00:27:47,236
Speaker 1: really neat to hear how how space could move things along.

503
00:27:47,276 --> 00:27:49,596
Speaker 1: And I and I wound up needing to do less

504
00:27:49,636 --> 00:27:52,556
Speaker 1: overdubs on that album as a result of exactly what

505
00:27:52,596 --> 00:27:54,716
Speaker 1: you're saying, Like, I've often looked back and go like,

506
00:27:55,516 --> 00:27:57,796
Speaker 1: how did I get away with doing so few overdubs,

507
00:27:57,796 --> 00:28:00,396
Speaker 1: and still the songs feel like they developed from beginning

508
00:28:00,436 --> 00:28:05,396
Speaker 1: to end. And yeah, I think it's the arrangements absolutely. Yeah,

509
00:28:05,516 --> 00:28:07,316
Speaker 1: we have to take a quick break and then we'll

510
00:28:07,316 --> 00:28:11,796
Speaker 1: be back with more of Rick Rubin's conversation with John Frushante.

511
00:28:15,676 --> 00:28:19,876
Speaker 1: We're back with Rick Rubin and John Frushante. I remember

512
00:28:20,196 --> 00:28:23,516
Speaker 1: we were again. I don't remember which songs were when,

513
00:28:24,196 --> 00:28:26,356
Speaker 1: but we had gotten to the point where it seemed

514
00:28:26,356 --> 00:28:28,436
Speaker 1: like we were ready to make an album, and then

515
00:28:29,196 --> 00:28:33,876
Speaker 1: there was some record label stuff going on where we

516
00:28:33,876 --> 00:28:36,836
Speaker 1: weren't allowed to go into the studio and ended up

517
00:28:36,836 --> 00:28:39,836
Speaker 1: writing for probably close to another year, So there was

518
00:28:39,876 --> 00:28:43,676
Speaker 1: already an album's worth of material that had things been normal,

519
00:28:43,716 --> 00:28:47,276
Speaker 1: we probably would have recorded, and then instead we used

520
00:28:47,276 --> 00:28:48,796
Speaker 1: that time to just write a bunch of more songs

521
00:28:48,796 --> 00:28:50,916
Speaker 1: than Again. I don't remember which ones came earlier, which

522
00:28:50,916 --> 00:28:52,996
Speaker 1: ones came late, but I know a bunch of good

523
00:28:52,996 --> 00:28:54,756
Speaker 1: ones came late too, you know, I think there were

524
00:28:54,796 --> 00:28:58,916
Speaker 1: good ones on both sides. Yeah, we decided that there

525
00:28:58,996 --> 00:29:00,876
Speaker 1: was no way we were going to be on EMI

526
00:29:01,516 --> 00:29:05,956
Speaker 1: anymore because they were taking too much control away from

527
00:29:05,956 --> 00:29:12,436
Speaker 1: the band, like editing the record without consulting us. The

528
00:29:12,476 --> 00:29:15,636
Speaker 1: mix was done without consulting us. We didn't We never

529
00:29:15,676 --> 00:29:19,676
Speaker 1: approved any mixes, putting things out without asking us. Whatever

530
00:29:19,716 --> 00:29:22,476
Speaker 1: it is, twelve inches or whatever, just like I guess

531
00:29:22,476 --> 00:29:25,676
Speaker 1: we hadn't noticed because the label just hadn't cared about

532
00:29:25,716 --> 00:29:28,836
Speaker 1: the band in the first few albums, so nobody had

533
00:29:28,876 --> 00:29:33,316
Speaker 1: noticed that we didn't have artistic finals say. And so

534
00:29:33,956 --> 00:29:36,316
Speaker 1: we really wanted to be with a label that trusted

535
00:29:36,396 --> 00:29:38,636
Speaker 1: us and was going to allow us to be ourselves

536
00:29:39,476 --> 00:29:43,356
Speaker 1: and allow us to have artistic finals say. And it

537
00:29:43,396 --> 00:29:45,476
Speaker 1: turned out there were several who were willing to give

538
00:29:45,556 --> 00:29:49,356
Speaker 1: us that, and so it was hard for somebody to

539
00:29:49,396 --> 00:29:52,036
Speaker 1: talk m I out of letting into letting us go.

540
00:29:52,196 --> 00:29:55,476
Speaker 1: But Mo Austen made a deal with them and made

541
00:29:55,516 --> 00:29:57,316
Speaker 1: a deal with us, and that was the label that

542
00:29:57,356 --> 00:30:01,956
Speaker 1: we felt comfortable with. And we really liked him, you

543
00:30:01,996 --> 00:30:05,196
Speaker 1: know himself. Even when we had decided at one point

544
00:30:05,236 --> 00:30:07,156
Speaker 1: not to go with Warner Brothers. He made a point

545
00:30:07,156 --> 00:30:10,276
Speaker 1: of calling each person in the band and saying some

546
00:30:10,356 --> 00:30:12,676
Speaker 1: really nice things, and that was what did it. We

547
00:30:12,676 --> 00:30:15,796
Speaker 1: were just like, Okay, this is a really warm, sweet

548
00:30:15,796 --> 00:30:18,876
Speaker 1: guy here. Yeah, you know, and he always was the

549
00:30:18,956 --> 00:30:21,596
Speaker 1: whole my entire you know, I got to work with

550
00:30:21,636 --> 00:30:25,116
Speaker 1: him for I don't know, twenty something years and never

551
00:30:25,236 --> 00:30:30,116
Speaker 1: a bad moment, never a bad moment. Yeah, yeah, you know,

552
00:30:30,236 --> 00:30:33,476
Speaker 1: he was great and so so yeah, so we we

553
00:30:33,556 --> 00:30:35,516
Speaker 1: took a couple of months off. At one point, I

554
00:30:35,556 --> 00:30:39,356
Speaker 1: remember from from the rehearsing writing process, fleet did my

555
00:30:39,396 --> 00:30:42,956
Speaker 1: own private Idaho. Yeah. But I think even during that time,

556
00:30:42,996 --> 00:30:45,276
Speaker 1: maybe like Anthony might have and I might have written,

557
00:30:45,316 --> 00:30:48,516
Speaker 1: I could have lied at that time, which came from

558
00:30:48,556 --> 00:30:53,276
Speaker 1: a very real experience a girl he really liked didn't

559
00:30:53,276 --> 00:30:55,516
Speaker 1: want to be with him. And we drove around all

560
00:30:55,596 --> 00:30:57,916
Speaker 1: day talking about it. Drove to the bank and it

561
00:30:58,036 --> 00:30:59,636
Speaker 1: was a rainy day and we were just having a

562
00:30:59,756 --> 00:31:02,996
Speaker 1: conversation about it. And I'd been recording stuff on my

563
00:31:03,036 --> 00:31:07,276
Speaker 1: four track and with a sort of fingerpicking style on

564
00:31:07,316 --> 00:31:12,116
Speaker 1: the acoustic guitar, but oftentimes putting wild, crazy guitar solos

565
00:31:12,156 --> 00:31:15,196
Speaker 1: on top of them. So we'd been having this conversation

566
00:31:15,236 --> 00:31:17,916
Speaker 1: all day. I guess I thought it would be cool

567
00:31:17,956 --> 00:31:20,036
Speaker 1: to do something like this four track stuff I'm doing,

568
00:31:20,076 --> 00:31:22,276
Speaker 1: which is the stuff that later came out on your label.

569
00:31:22,316 --> 00:31:24,716
Speaker 1: That's the music, the four track music I'm talking about.

570
00:31:25,316 --> 00:31:28,236
Speaker 1: And I was like, we should write a song about

571
00:31:28,276 --> 00:31:32,036
Speaker 1: this thing that Anthony's going through, but in the style

572
00:31:32,076 --> 00:31:34,676
Speaker 1: of this stuff I've been recording on my four track,

573
00:31:35,516 --> 00:31:37,836
Speaker 1: and we did it that night. We recorded, or I

574
00:31:37,876 --> 00:31:41,036
Speaker 1: think we came up with a basic idea for the

575
00:31:41,476 --> 00:31:44,676
Speaker 1: for the music, and then and Anthony wrote some stuff,

576
00:31:44,676 --> 00:31:46,476
Speaker 1: and then I seem to remember him going to his

577
00:31:46,556 --> 00:31:50,516
Speaker 1: house and writing some lyrics and then driving back and

578
00:31:50,756 --> 00:31:54,876
Speaker 1: recorded the vocal and we weren't even the demo was

579
00:31:54,916 --> 00:31:57,156
Speaker 1: so good we were considering even if the if the

580
00:31:57,196 --> 00:31:59,236
Speaker 1: recording of the band didn't come out good, we would

581
00:31:59,316 --> 00:32:02,876
Speaker 1: use that demo on the record. So yeah, pretty yeah,

582
00:32:02,956 --> 00:32:04,996
Speaker 1: So I'm pretty sure that was around that was in

583
00:32:05,036 --> 00:32:10,676
Speaker 1: that break. And then yeah, when when when everything cleared

584
00:32:10,716 --> 00:32:13,436
Speaker 1: and we were we were allowed to go in the studio,

585
00:32:13,476 --> 00:32:15,516
Speaker 1: I guess we probably rehearsed for another month or two

586
00:32:15,636 --> 00:32:18,716
Speaker 1: or something, and then and then moved into the mansion,

587
00:32:18,756 --> 00:32:21,156
Speaker 1: which was another thing, Like to live in this house

588
00:32:21,316 --> 00:32:25,676
Speaker 1: that was like again or just a warm, cozy feeling

589
00:32:25,716 --> 00:32:32,156
Speaker 1: as opposed to a sterile, you know, professional feeling. We

590
00:32:32,156 --> 00:32:34,836
Speaker 1: wouldn't have ever known that that was a possibility, you know,

591
00:32:35,116 --> 00:32:37,636
Speaker 1: to us, you had to go in a studio to

592
00:32:37,716 --> 00:32:40,156
Speaker 1: record a song, and you were just like, no, we

593
00:32:40,196 --> 00:32:43,156
Speaker 1: could make one. And I don't know why I thought

594
00:32:43,196 --> 00:32:45,596
Speaker 1: that either because I'd never done it before. I don't

595
00:32:45,716 --> 00:32:50,036
Speaker 1: really know why it was a strange. I think the

596
00:32:50,116 --> 00:32:54,716
Speaker 1: thought was they had made these this group of albums

597
00:32:54,796 --> 00:32:56,796
Speaker 1: that I didn't get the feeling that there was ever

598
00:32:56,876 --> 00:32:59,836
Speaker 1: a great recording experience for the Chili Peppers. And they

599
00:32:59,836 --> 00:33:02,156
Speaker 1: were all similar in that they all went into a

600
00:33:02,196 --> 00:33:05,796
Speaker 1: corporate studio and recorded what can we do to make

601
00:33:05,876 --> 00:33:09,356
Speaker 1: this one? The first one? That's not like that? And

602
00:33:09,356 --> 00:33:11,196
Speaker 1: I would drive over Laurel Canyon all the time, and

603
00:33:11,236 --> 00:33:14,796
Speaker 1: I loved that house. And then I just tracked down

604
00:33:14,836 --> 00:33:16,396
Speaker 1: the owner and asked if there was any way that

605
00:33:16,436 --> 00:33:19,516
Speaker 1: we could rent it and it worked out. We looked

606
00:33:19,516 --> 00:33:21,396
Speaker 1: at other houses before that, and it wouldn't it wouldn't

607
00:33:21,396 --> 00:33:23,716
Speaker 1: have been as good. That was a really special place. Yeah,

608
00:33:23,756 --> 00:33:27,236
Speaker 1: it really was. Yeah, And we were so excited by stuff,

609
00:33:27,276 --> 00:33:30,076
Speaker 1: just like hearing all that natural room sound on the

610
00:33:30,116 --> 00:33:33,956
Speaker 1: snare and stuff. It's like it's it's when I hear

611
00:33:33,996 --> 00:33:36,796
Speaker 1: it today, it sounds really overblown, But it was exciting,

612
00:33:36,916 --> 00:33:39,956
Speaker 1: you know, like it was yeah, like and it felt

613
00:33:40,116 --> 00:33:42,476
Speaker 1: it was perfect for that record, and how we had

614
00:33:42,556 --> 00:33:45,996
Speaker 1: arranged the tunes because it's smart. They were, Yeah, exactly.

615
00:33:45,996 --> 00:33:48,596
Speaker 1: It filled up the space whenever the guitar wasn't playing

616
00:33:48,676 --> 00:33:51,796
Speaker 1: or the bass wasn't playing. The drums it almost sounded

617
00:33:51,836 --> 00:33:54,356
Speaker 1: like you didn't need anything but drums to fill up

618
00:33:54,356 --> 00:33:58,036
Speaker 1: the space. Everything else sounded like extra. So yeah, it was.

619
00:33:58,276 --> 00:34:00,796
Speaker 1: It was really magic. And I remember when we did

620
00:34:00,796 --> 00:34:04,116
Speaker 1: the overdubs where everybody played percussion instruments. I remember when

621
00:34:04,156 --> 00:34:08,556
Speaker 1: we recorded up at midnight behind the house outside. Remember

622
00:34:08,676 --> 00:34:11,396
Speaker 1: how in the Red Hot you did good stuff. It

623
00:34:11,476 --> 00:34:13,996
Speaker 1: was fun. And I remember Anthony was singing upstairs in

624
00:34:13,996 --> 00:34:17,756
Speaker 1: one of the bedrooms. Yeah. Yeah, Flei was saying that

625
00:34:17,756 --> 00:34:20,556
Speaker 1: that moment of recording the Robert Johnson song in the

626
00:34:21,396 --> 00:34:25,156
Speaker 1: behind the house and the outside was it's like his

627
00:34:25,236 --> 00:34:31,396
Speaker 1: favorite recording experience ever. Yeah. It was some card drove

628
00:34:31,836 --> 00:34:34,636
Speaker 1: on down Laurel Canyon. You could hear it was filled

629
00:34:34,676 --> 00:34:37,436
Speaker 1: with girls and they screamed like right before we started

630
00:34:37,476 --> 00:34:42,156
Speaker 1: recording it. It was like so cool. It just felt

631
00:34:42,196 --> 00:34:44,556
Speaker 1: like that was right as we had breast record and

632
00:34:44,596 --> 00:34:47,436
Speaker 1: were it was just like, oh, yeah, that's the magic

633
00:34:47,476 --> 00:34:50,796
Speaker 1: sound that's supposed to go right there. You know, when

634
00:34:50,796 --> 00:34:53,796
Speaker 1: you brought in the songs that didn't sound like previous

635
00:34:53,916 --> 00:34:56,476
Speaker 1: Chili Pepper songs. What was the reaction from the band

636
00:34:56,516 --> 00:34:58,396
Speaker 1: at first when you came to rehearsal with let's say,

637
00:34:58,396 --> 00:35:02,356
Speaker 1: breaky in the Girl music, Total openness, total excitement, Like wow,

638
00:35:02,396 --> 00:35:05,396
Speaker 1: that to me, it felt so easy to write something

639
00:35:05,476 --> 00:35:07,276
Speaker 1: like that. It felt like I could have been doing

640
00:35:07,316 --> 00:35:08,956
Speaker 1: that all along. I didn't know that it was going

641
00:35:09,116 --> 00:35:12,516
Speaker 1: and be okay, you know, yeah, because up until that point,

642
00:35:13,316 --> 00:35:16,516
Speaker 1: what the Chili Peppers were was a very specific thing.

643
00:35:16,556 --> 00:35:21,116
Speaker 1: It was hard funk with rap vocals always yeah, and

644
00:35:21,556 --> 00:35:24,756
Speaker 1: on this album that that mold got broken to just

645
00:35:24,876 --> 00:35:29,516
Speaker 1: be good music. Whatever the good music was. Yeah, And

646
00:35:29,556 --> 00:35:33,516
Speaker 1: I hadn't realized how much those limitations that we were

647
00:35:33,516 --> 00:35:37,596
Speaker 1: working in as far as the musical style. I think

648
00:35:37,596 --> 00:35:40,476
Speaker 1: I thought of that as just as intentional. I didn't

649
00:35:40,476 --> 00:35:43,076
Speaker 1: think of it as that they just weren't able to

650
00:35:43,596 --> 00:35:45,956
Speaker 1: write something like breaking the Girl or something. I thought

651
00:35:45,956 --> 00:35:48,916
Speaker 1: specifically they didn't want to do that. And the more

652
00:35:48,956 --> 00:35:51,356
Speaker 1: I got to know them, like on the Mother's Milk tour,

653
00:35:51,996 --> 00:35:54,636
Speaker 1: Anthony and I we had a really nice drive in

654
00:35:54,676 --> 00:35:57,916
Speaker 1: Germany at one time, just like we'd never listened to

655
00:35:57,996 --> 00:36:00,756
Speaker 1: David Bowie together, and we listened to Hunky Dory. We

656
00:36:01,116 --> 00:36:03,156
Speaker 1: had a cassette of it that a nice woman from

657
00:36:03,236 --> 00:36:06,996
Speaker 1: e M I gave to us, And yeah, just seeing

658
00:36:07,076 --> 00:36:11,316
Speaker 1: him feel that music so intensely and so along the

659
00:36:11,316 --> 00:36:13,436
Speaker 1: way throughout the Mother's Milk tour, I'm starting to put

660
00:36:13,476 --> 00:36:16,116
Speaker 1: it together in my head that like, they would really

661
00:36:16,156 --> 00:36:18,956
Speaker 1: like it if I wrote stuff like this, And in

662
00:36:18,996 --> 00:36:21,196
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, it was the most natural thing

663
00:36:21,236 --> 00:36:24,596
Speaker 1: that I could do, and I just but it was

664
00:36:24,636 --> 00:36:27,236
Speaker 1: also that not just not just that there might have

665
00:36:27,276 --> 00:36:30,196
Speaker 1: been an inability to write stuff like that before, but like,

666
00:36:30,876 --> 00:36:34,196
Speaker 1: like I really loved the band within those limitations, Like

667
00:36:34,356 --> 00:36:38,796
Speaker 1: I really like I that that funk punk sometimes heavy metal,

668
00:36:39,196 --> 00:36:41,516
Speaker 1: but really good version of heavy metal thing that they had.

669
00:36:41,636 --> 00:36:43,836
Speaker 1: Like as a fan, I thought it was such a

670
00:36:43,916 --> 00:36:46,916
Speaker 1: brilliant combination of things that I didn't want to mess

671
00:36:46,956 --> 00:36:50,236
Speaker 1: with it myself for purely artistic reasons, you know, I didn't.

672
00:36:50,996 --> 00:36:53,476
Speaker 1: And also you never know something till you've tried it,

673
00:36:53,556 --> 00:36:55,876
Speaker 1: And I didn't know how good we would sound playing

674
00:36:55,916 --> 00:36:57,916
Speaker 1: something like under the Bridge, or I could have lied

675
00:36:58,116 --> 00:36:59,796
Speaker 1: like like we were saying, like even what I could

676
00:36:59,796 --> 00:37:01,636
Speaker 1: have liked, we had doubt as to whether it would

677
00:37:01,636 --> 00:37:04,116
Speaker 1: even sound good with chat and fully playing on it.

678
00:37:04,276 --> 00:37:07,356
Speaker 1: You know. I can remember when we were putting songs

679
00:37:07,396 --> 00:37:10,436
Speaker 1: on the album decide that what's the song that ended

680
00:37:10,516 --> 00:37:13,476
Speaker 1: up on the cone Head soundtrack sold to squeeze Y.

681
00:37:13,516 --> 00:37:15,596
Speaker 1: It's like, well, that couldn't be on the album because

682
00:37:15,596 --> 00:37:18,236
Speaker 1: it was like too mellow and we already had a

683
00:37:18,276 --> 00:37:20,476
Speaker 1: mellow So like, do you remember that? Yeah, and you

684
00:37:20,556 --> 00:37:23,196
Speaker 1: really did your best to convince us to put it

685
00:37:23,236 --> 00:37:24,596
Speaker 1: on there. You were like, I think it's one of

686
00:37:24,596 --> 00:37:29,396
Speaker 1: the best songs, you know. And when we were writing

687
00:37:29,796 --> 00:37:32,436
Speaker 1: this last batch of material that we wrote for these

688
00:37:32,476 --> 00:37:36,676
Speaker 1: couple albums, I listened to the whole album. I listened

689
00:37:36,676 --> 00:37:38,836
Speaker 1: to each of the whole albums at some point during

690
00:37:38,916 --> 00:37:40,996
Speaker 1: the making of it, just to see where we were

691
00:37:41,036 --> 00:37:44,076
Speaker 1: at and what we might be missing. And and when

692
00:37:44,076 --> 00:37:48,076
Speaker 1: I listened to Blood Sugar, particularly, I, you know, as

693
00:37:48,076 --> 00:37:49,876
Speaker 1: great as it is and everything, I was just like

694
00:37:49,956 --> 00:37:52,476
Speaker 1: we were insane for not putting Sould to Squeeze on

695
00:37:52,516 --> 00:37:57,076
Speaker 1: that record, Like I remember clearly fleasing my thinking and stuff.

696
00:37:57,156 --> 00:38:02,156
Speaker 1: Of course, I remember us both particularly being like yeah, yeah,

697
00:38:02,196 --> 00:38:05,156
Speaker 1: too much as it is. We've got three songs like

698
00:38:05,236 --> 00:38:09,316
Speaker 1: this and that's that's already way more than Enough or

699
00:38:09,316 --> 00:38:12,836
Speaker 1: something like that. It's just such a good song. It's

700
00:38:12,876 --> 00:38:17,196
Speaker 1: such a good song, but you never know, like you

701
00:38:17,236 --> 00:38:20,596
Speaker 1: really never know. And it's like if the Ramones would

702
00:38:20,596 --> 00:38:22,676
Speaker 1: have made an album like Hunky Dorry, I don't know

703
00:38:22,676 --> 00:38:23,996
Speaker 1: if we would have liked it, do you know what

704
00:38:24,036 --> 00:38:27,236
Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's like sometimes when the formula is good

705
00:38:27,796 --> 00:38:30,796
Speaker 1: or a CDC, you know, we there are bands that

706
00:38:30,916 --> 00:38:34,356
Speaker 1: you want to sound like the way they sound, So

707
00:38:34,636 --> 00:38:37,396
Speaker 1: in some ways it was it was risky. Now in

708
00:38:37,476 --> 00:38:40,516
Speaker 1: retrospect it worked out, but it was risky. The other

709
00:38:40,556 --> 00:38:44,036
Speaker 1: thing that it did was they were already a handful

710
00:38:44,116 --> 00:38:49,236
Speaker 1: of those albums, so it wasn't like this was the

711
00:38:49,236 --> 00:38:54,196
Speaker 1: band's second album of their career. Yeah, they had already

712
00:38:55,156 --> 00:39:01,116
Speaker 1: mind those fields for some time. Yeah, and it seemed

713
00:39:01,156 --> 00:39:05,676
Speaker 1: like good timing to expand, and we didn't expand like crazy.

714
00:39:05,716 --> 00:39:07,476
Speaker 1: It's still if you liked the old band, I don't

715
00:39:07,516 --> 00:39:09,476
Speaker 1: think you would have not liked the new bad. It

716
00:39:09,556 --> 00:39:13,276
Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't like one hundred and eighty degrees in

717
00:39:13,276 --> 00:39:18,156
Speaker 1: the opposite direction. It just was widening the scope. Yeah,

718
00:39:18,196 --> 00:39:21,756
Speaker 1: there definitely were people who didn't like us, like who

719
00:39:21,836 --> 00:39:24,196
Speaker 1: turned on us at that point for sure when when

720
00:39:24,196 --> 00:39:26,956
Speaker 1: Blood Sugar came out, Like for sure, yeah, there was

721
00:39:26,956 --> 00:39:31,476
Speaker 1: definitely people that like the fast punk punk thing and

722
00:39:32,036 --> 00:39:35,836
Speaker 1: and felt that we were selling out or whatever. You know.

723
00:39:36,796 --> 00:39:39,196
Speaker 1: I remember when interviewer came to the Blood Sugar house

724
00:39:39,516 --> 00:39:41,876
Speaker 1: and he said, so, when you guys playing Vegas? And

725
00:39:41,956 --> 00:39:45,036
Speaker 1: I said, and I said, I said, oh, we're playing

726
00:39:45,036 --> 00:39:47,036
Speaker 1: in Vegas in August or whatever, Like I thought, he

727
00:39:47,076 --> 00:39:50,756
Speaker 1: actually meant, yeah, when you're playing in Las Vegas. Yeah, yeah,

728
00:39:50,956 --> 00:39:53,916
Speaker 1: And and then and then I, oh, okay, I see

729
00:39:53,956 --> 00:39:57,996
Speaker 1: what you meant. Yeah, like like and I'm sure I

730
00:39:58,036 --> 00:40:00,356
Speaker 1: said something really rude to him, but but yeah, like

731
00:40:01,676 --> 00:40:04,156
Speaker 1: we got a little of that. I even remember like

732
00:40:04,716 --> 00:40:07,916
Speaker 1: some punk kids like protesting at one of our shows

733
00:40:07,916 --> 00:40:09,916
Speaker 1: and flee walking out and talk talking to them and

734
00:40:09,996 --> 00:40:14,756
Speaker 1: stuff like. But uh, in the long run, it definitely

735
00:40:14,796 --> 00:40:18,436
Speaker 1: worked out, you know, like something similar happening by the

736
00:40:18,476 --> 00:40:21,436
Speaker 1: way time as well, Like like we went so far

737
00:40:21,476 --> 00:40:24,516
Speaker 1: in this other direction that wasn't what people expected. And

738
00:40:25,396 --> 00:40:27,596
Speaker 1: in the big picture, I think we gained more fans

739
00:40:27,676 --> 00:40:31,036
Speaker 1: than we lost. But but there were people who felt

740
00:40:31,076 --> 00:40:34,196
Speaker 1: like like the thing that they liked about the band,

741
00:40:34,236 --> 00:40:37,996
Speaker 1: we weren't doing that anymore. You know. But I think,

742
00:40:38,276 --> 00:40:41,476
Speaker 1: you know, I think artistically it's good to take those

743
00:40:41,756 --> 00:40:44,596
Speaker 1: you know, to take those risks, and absolutely, and I

744
00:40:44,636 --> 00:40:47,236
Speaker 1: think for us it worked out career wise in the

745
00:40:47,276 --> 00:40:51,316
Speaker 1: long run, because I think people definitely think of us

746
00:40:51,396 --> 00:40:56,316
Speaker 1: more as this band that makes these melodic, you know,

747
00:40:56,396 --> 00:40:58,916
Speaker 1: pop tunes than they think of us as a funk

748
00:40:58,956 --> 00:41:02,996
Speaker 1: punk band anymore, you know. Yeah, And we're still able

749
00:41:03,036 --> 00:41:06,716
Speaker 1: to compete with bands who do go for a complete

750
00:41:07,196 --> 00:41:12,476
Speaker 1: heavy onslaught type. We still have a very intense power,

751
00:41:12,596 --> 00:41:15,676
Speaker 1: like we never lost that, you know, which is I

752
00:41:15,716 --> 00:41:20,196
Speaker 1: think why maybe even though sometimes we might have thrown

753
00:41:20,316 --> 00:41:23,196
Speaker 1: some people off and initially they might not have liked

754
00:41:23,236 --> 00:41:25,876
Speaker 1: the new direction or whatever, like I think a lot

755
00:41:25,876 --> 00:41:28,796
Speaker 1: of the time those people it grew on them. You know.

756
00:41:29,916 --> 00:41:32,036
Speaker 1: I've never talked to you about this. Obviously, I talked

757
00:41:32,036 --> 00:41:34,836
Speaker 1: to Anthony about it because I was with him at

758
00:41:34,876 --> 00:41:38,356
Speaker 1: the beginning when it happened. But for Under the Bridge,

759
00:41:38,396 --> 00:41:41,116
Speaker 1: I remember finding the lyrics in his book. I've told

760
00:41:41,156 --> 00:41:43,716
Speaker 1: the story before, but I remember finding the lyrics and

761
00:41:43,756 --> 00:41:45,756
Speaker 1: I remember him saying, that's not chili pepper song, because

762
00:41:45,756 --> 00:41:47,356
Speaker 1: it was still in those days that couldn't be a

763
00:41:47,436 --> 00:41:50,396
Speaker 1: chili Pepper song, and I said, well, try sing it

764
00:41:50,436 --> 00:41:54,156
Speaker 1: to the band, see what happens. And he was very resistant,

765
00:41:54,276 --> 00:41:56,396
Speaker 1: very resistant, and then he ended up playing it for

766
00:41:56,436 --> 00:41:58,956
Speaker 1: you or singing it to you, and then you came

767
00:41:59,036 --> 00:42:00,996
Speaker 1: up with the music, and I remember he was still

768
00:42:01,116 --> 00:42:04,676
Speaker 1: terrified for you and him to present it to the

769
00:42:04,716 --> 00:42:08,636
Speaker 1: rest of the band because it seemed so far outside

770
00:42:09,356 --> 00:42:11,196
Speaker 1: of anything that had come before it. But I want

771
00:42:11,196 --> 00:42:13,996
Speaker 1: to ask you about it. What was your experience when

772
00:42:14,036 --> 00:42:15,876
Speaker 1: he first because I wasn't there when he when he

773
00:42:16,236 --> 00:42:19,556
Speaker 1: sang it to you, what was that Like My memory

774
00:42:19,556 --> 00:42:22,316
Speaker 1: of it's a little different. I remember you and Anthony

775
00:42:22,396 --> 00:42:26,916
Speaker 1: coming to rehearsal and you really urging him to do it,

776
00:42:26,956 --> 00:42:30,516
Speaker 1: and him making a bunch of disclaimers, and you just

777
00:42:30,596 --> 00:42:35,996
Speaker 1: really encouraging him to sing it to us, and he

778
00:42:36,156 --> 00:42:39,636
Speaker 1: sang it to us and Flee and I flee drove

779
00:42:39,676 --> 00:42:42,636
Speaker 1: me home off and in those days and Flee and

780
00:42:42,676 --> 00:42:46,596
Speaker 1: I driving home, and it made us really sad under

781
00:42:46,636 --> 00:42:50,076
Speaker 1: the bridge. Hearing it just made us feel like, boy,

782
00:42:50,116 --> 00:42:56,076
Speaker 1: Anthony's really bummed out, like like heavy yeah, like heavy words. Yeah.

783
00:42:56,116 --> 00:42:58,476
Speaker 1: We just felt really like bad form And it was

784
00:42:58,556 --> 00:43:03,796
Speaker 1: just this like sad kind of experience. And and going

785
00:43:03,836 --> 00:43:05,876
Speaker 1: back to my house and just singing, Boy, that song

786
00:43:06,036 --> 00:43:09,436
Speaker 1: is a real bummer, you know, like not meaning that

787
00:43:09,476 --> 00:43:13,516
Speaker 1: it's bad, meaning like emotionally, yeah, Like I thought of

788
00:43:13,556 --> 00:43:15,596
Speaker 1: it as a song about that he doesn't have any friends.

789
00:43:15,836 --> 00:43:18,636
Speaker 1: That's that was how I described it in my head.

790
00:43:20,076 --> 00:43:24,596
Speaker 1: But with your encouragement and with feeling having a feeling

791
00:43:24,636 --> 00:43:29,036
Speaker 1: that there was something there, Anthony and I made a

792
00:43:29,076 --> 00:43:33,236
Speaker 1: plan for me to go to his house. And I

793
00:43:33,276 --> 00:43:36,556
Speaker 1: wasn't super looking forward to the thing, Like I thought

794
00:43:36,556 --> 00:43:41,396
Speaker 1: of it as a depressing and as a friend, not

795
00:43:41,556 --> 00:43:45,036
Speaker 1: really knowing how to like how to be there for

796
00:43:45,076 --> 00:43:48,956
Speaker 1: that part of him, you know, like like I guess

797
00:43:48,956 --> 00:43:50,876
Speaker 1: I felt maybe in some ways like he didn't feel

798
00:43:50,916 --> 00:43:52,956
Speaker 1: like I was there for him as a friend or something.

799
00:43:53,916 --> 00:43:57,196
Speaker 1: But we got together to do it, and I had

800
00:43:57,236 --> 00:43:59,196
Speaker 1: I had some vague ideas in my head. I thought,

801
00:43:59,756 --> 00:44:03,276
Speaker 1: there's these Jimi Hendrix songs. There's a couple of them

802
00:44:03,316 --> 00:44:08,876
Speaker 1: on Access Boldest Love. The song Boldest Love and it's

803
00:44:09,716 --> 00:44:12,236
Speaker 1: it's got this kind of chord progression that's very similar

804
00:44:12,356 --> 00:44:16,196
Speaker 1: chord progression to the chord progression of Under the Bridge,

805
00:44:16,316 --> 00:44:19,196
Speaker 1: where it starts on a major chord, but it goes

806
00:44:19,596 --> 00:44:22,236
Speaker 1: to a minor chord in the course of the chord progression,

807
00:44:22,876 --> 00:44:27,756
Speaker 1: so it's basically happy, but it's also got this slight

808
00:44:27,956 --> 00:44:31,276
Speaker 1: sadness that it moves right through. And I think, I

809
00:44:31,476 --> 00:44:33,556
Speaker 1: so even though I didn't know exactly what we were

810
00:44:33,596 --> 00:44:36,796
Speaker 1: going to come up with, like driving there, I remember

811
00:44:36,836 --> 00:44:40,476
Speaker 1: I specifically thought, do something like Bold's Love like because

812
00:44:40,476 --> 00:44:44,316
Speaker 1: we'd also been we've been performing a cover of Castles

813
00:44:44,316 --> 00:44:47,116
Speaker 1: Made of Sand, which is off that same Jimmie Hendricks album,

814
00:44:47,156 --> 00:44:50,436
Speaker 1: and it worked live like. Our audience liked it. You know,

815
00:44:50,836 --> 00:44:55,036
Speaker 1: that's my favorite Jimmie Hendricks song, right, and so so yeah,

816
00:44:55,116 --> 00:44:57,276
Speaker 1: so we've been doing that all through the Mother's Milk

817
00:44:57,276 --> 00:44:59,916
Speaker 1: tour and everybody loved it. So so I knew we

818
00:44:59,956 --> 00:45:03,396
Speaker 1: could sound good playing something like that, and so I thought,

819
00:45:03,676 --> 00:45:06,276
Speaker 1: just write something like that, and we figured out how

820
00:45:06,276 --> 00:45:09,836
Speaker 1: to have the chords and the lyric and the melody

821
00:45:09,876 --> 00:45:13,996
Speaker 1: and all work together with that. And there was a

822
00:45:14,076 --> 00:45:17,156
Speaker 1: Joe Jackson song that I was particularly fond of called

823
00:45:17,236 --> 00:45:20,556
Speaker 1: in Every Dream, Home and Nightmare, where when it gets

824
00:45:20,596 --> 00:45:24,356
Speaker 1: to the chorus, there's nothing on the one, there's the

825
00:45:24,436 --> 00:45:26,596
Speaker 1: verse happens, and then there's a little drum break and

826
00:45:26,636 --> 00:45:33,156
Speaker 1: so the verse ends and then the drums go to

827
00:45:30,276 --> 00:45:41,716
Speaker 1: good bomb bomb bomb bomb, So it's this interesting kind

828
00:45:41,716 --> 00:45:44,476
Speaker 1: of groove just where it where it where there's nothing

829
00:45:44,516 --> 00:45:46,236
Speaker 1: on the one, and there's a little drum break right

830
00:45:46,276 --> 00:45:49,196
Speaker 1: before the chorus. So when Anthony I came up with

831
00:45:49,196 --> 00:45:51,876
Speaker 1: it that that was I what I envisioned my head

832
00:45:51,956 --> 00:45:54,116
Speaker 1: was we could do a chorus like that Joe Jackson song.

833
00:45:54,236 --> 00:45:56,356
Speaker 1: So what I came up with that have a similar

834
00:45:56,436 --> 00:45:59,316
Speaker 1: kind of drum break after the verse is over, this

835
00:45:59,436 --> 00:46:02,276
Speaker 1: little breath and then and then in our case, it

836
00:46:02,316 --> 00:46:08,356
Speaker 1: went one to the bomb, bomb bomb, So like the

837
00:46:08,476 --> 00:46:11,116
Speaker 1: chord was arting at a different time. It's sooner in

838
00:46:11,116 --> 00:46:13,876
Speaker 1: the bar line, but it was the same basic idea

839
00:46:14,236 --> 00:46:18,436
Speaker 1: I played. I played Ryan, our engineer, that song, saying

840
00:46:18,476 --> 00:46:19,916
Speaker 1: this is where I got the idea for under the

841
00:46:19,916 --> 00:46:22,396
Speaker 1: Bridge chorus in the song. The chorus went by him

842
00:46:22,396 --> 00:46:25,556
Speaker 1: and he was like, I don't hear it, of course, yeah,

843
00:46:25,596 --> 00:46:28,756
Speaker 1: but but conceptually it was that it was that idea

844
00:46:28,756 --> 00:46:31,156
Speaker 1: of start later than the one rather than on the

845
00:46:31,196 --> 00:46:34,956
Speaker 1: one for the chorus. That's a really interesting point in general,

846
00:46:35,036 --> 00:46:37,796
Speaker 1: how we can be inspired by a piece of music

847
00:46:37,916 --> 00:46:40,196
Speaker 1: or a technique and a piece of music and then

848
00:46:40,276 --> 00:46:44,436
Speaker 1: make something inspired by it and it's nothing like it. Yeah,

849
00:46:44,476 --> 00:46:49,276
Speaker 1: it's nothing like it. It's just some underlying rhythm or

850
00:46:49,556 --> 00:46:52,756
Speaker 1: organization or principle that gets you to the next place.

851
00:46:53,396 --> 00:46:58,476
Speaker 1: But it's not the song at all. It's just the technique. Yeah, yeah,

852
00:46:58,516 --> 00:47:00,236
Speaker 1: we did. We did a lot of that back then.

853
00:47:00,316 --> 00:47:02,636
Speaker 1: Flee and I were really on a roll with that.

854
00:47:02,836 --> 00:47:05,876
Speaker 1: What we perceived is ripping. We called it ripping something off.

855
00:47:06,756 --> 00:47:09,716
Speaker 1: But there is one example of that that I would

856
00:47:10,076 --> 00:47:13,036
Speaker 1: just think that I would say comes anywhere near plagiarism,

857
00:47:13,076 --> 00:47:16,316
Speaker 1: you know, it was. It's really inspiration and it's like, oh,

858
00:47:16,356 --> 00:47:20,436
Speaker 1: we could do something like that, and that the context

859
00:47:20,636 --> 00:47:23,596
Speaker 1: is so different that it has nothing to do with

860
00:47:23,636 --> 00:47:26,396
Speaker 1: the original. Yeah, And a lot of the time it

861
00:47:26,516 --> 00:47:28,756
Speaker 1: might be in the guitar part or the bass part,

862
00:47:28,796 --> 00:47:31,316
Speaker 1: but then that gets covered up and interacted with by

863
00:47:31,356 --> 00:47:35,876
Speaker 1: the drums and the guitar or whatever, and you wind

864
00:47:35,916 --> 00:47:38,476
Speaker 1: up with a completely different texture and a completely different

865
00:47:38,476 --> 00:47:42,036
Speaker 1: sound and a completely different musical statement. Where a lot

866
00:47:42,076 --> 00:47:46,116
Speaker 1: of musicians I've known have been paranoid about stealing from

867
00:47:46,156 --> 00:47:50,516
Speaker 1: anybody else, and then for some reason, those same musicians

868
00:47:51,836 --> 00:47:55,676
Speaker 1: actually have bass lines or guitar parts that are exactly

869
00:47:55,756 --> 00:47:59,756
Speaker 1: something director rip offs and they didn't and they didn't

870
00:47:59,756 --> 00:48:02,596
Speaker 1: know they were doing it, you know. So somehow I

871
00:48:02,596 --> 00:48:05,596
Speaker 1: feel like by being conscious of it, we were controlling it,

872
00:48:05,756 --> 00:48:08,756
Speaker 1: you know. And it would be a theoretical idea that

873
00:48:08,796 --> 00:48:11,596
Speaker 1: we were taking, or or an idea that has something

874
00:48:11,636 --> 00:48:14,996
Speaker 1: to do with the relationship of the instruments, or and

875
00:48:15,076 --> 00:48:19,716
Speaker 1: it's it's not actually taking music from somebody else. Yeah,

876
00:48:19,756 --> 00:48:24,956
Speaker 1: it's like architecture. Yeah, we'll be right back with more

877
00:48:25,036 --> 00:48:32,116
Speaker 1: from Rick Rubin and John Fuschante. We're back with Rick

878
00:48:32,156 --> 00:48:34,756
Speaker 1: Rubin and John Fuschante, who are talking about the making

879
00:48:34,796 --> 00:48:37,756
Speaker 1: of the Chili Peppers nineteen ninety one album Blood Sugar

880
00:48:37,876 --> 00:48:42,596
Speaker 1: Sex Magic. So then we finished that album. I remember

881
00:48:42,596 --> 00:48:44,756
Speaker 1: we had a really good party at that house. It

882
00:48:44,876 --> 00:48:47,876
Speaker 1: was really fun. It felt like a thousand people were there.

883
00:48:47,916 --> 00:48:50,116
Speaker 1: Do you remember that. Yeah, that was a lot of fun.

884
00:48:50,476 --> 00:48:55,156
Speaker 1: That was really good. Yeah, playing music everywhere in the

885
00:48:55,196 --> 00:48:59,356
Speaker 1: house and stuff and people playing ping pong and yeah,

886
00:48:59,396 --> 00:49:01,796
Speaker 1: and then you went on the road and then how

887
00:49:01,836 --> 00:49:06,436
Speaker 1: long was it before it stopped being fun? Well, we

888
00:49:06,556 --> 00:49:10,276
Speaker 1: had a pretty big break between especially because we weren't

889
00:49:10,276 --> 00:49:15,036
Speaker 1: really involved in the mixing, so as I remember it

890
00:49:15,156 --> 00:49:18,916
Speaker 1: from the time I left the recording studio. I think

891
00:49:18,916 --> 00:49:20,756
Speaker 1: of it as being like a six month period or

892
00:49:20,796 --> 00:49:23,156
Speaker 1: something that we weren't doing anything. Was probably shorter than that,

893
00:49:23,236 --> 00:49:26,676
Speaker 1: but I seem to remember having a nice long break,

894
00:49:26,876 --> 00:49:31,636
Speaker 1: you know, And during that time there's a couple of

895
00:49:31,676 --> 00:49:34,876
Speaker 1: things that happened to me that I think like switched

896
00:49:34,956 --> 00:49:39,516
Speaker 1: my mental gears around. Like one was a bad acid trip,

897
00:49:39,916 --> 00:49:44,316
Speaker 1: like taking acid in the wrong environment and feeling at

898
00:49:44,316 --> 00:49:46,116
Speaker 1: the time like I was never going to be the same,

899
00:49:46,596 --> 00:49:49,636
Speaker 1: and being stuck in that mindset, and then waking up

900
00:49:49,636 --> 00:49:51,956
Speaker 1: and feeling like, Okay, I'm I'm normal now, I'm not

901
00:49:52,036 --> 00:49:55,476
Speaker 1: stuck like that. But as the weeks went on, starting

902
00:49:55,476 --> 00:49:59,116
Speaker 1: to realize that I don't think I am the same anymore,

903
00:49:59,956 --> 00:50:03,516
Speaker 1: and also started I won't get into too much into

904
00:50:03,556 --> 00:50:06,716
Speaker 1: the drug thing, but they did seem like pivotal things

905
00:50:06,796 --> 00:50:14,036
Speaker 1: that took place that that started occasionally using heroin around

906
00:50:14,036 --> 00:50:18,156
Speaker 1: the same time and gradually and you know, as I

907
00:50:18,196 --> 00:50:20,556
Speaker 1: had already been smoking pot all day long, but it

908
00:50:20,676 --> 00:50:23,876
Speaker 1: was having a very positive effect, you know, up till then,

909
00:50:24,556 --> 00:50:28,236
Speaker 1: but especially when that happened with the acid trip, it

910
00:50:28,316 --> 00:50:31,516
Speaker 1: was just like I think my brain definitely needed like

911
00:50:31,596 --> 00:50:34,916
Speaker 1: a clearing, and I didn't allow myself for that. I

912
00:50:34,956 --> 00:50:41,276
Speaker 1: was so attached to the relationship between pot and my

913
00:50:41,396 --> 00:50:47,116
Speaker 1: creativity that I couldn't stop doing that. And gradually we

914
00:50:47,236 --> 00:50:50,556
Speaker 1: went we went on tour, and gradually that synesthesia that

915
00:50:50,596 --> 00:50:54,756
Speaker 1: I was talking about, it was gradually getting weaker and weaker,

916
00:50:54,916 --> 00:50:59,636
Speaker 1: like there was a distinct feeling of it drifting away

917
00:50:59,756 --> 00:51:02,276
Speaker 1: and it was fading. I would guess it would be

918
00:51:02,316 --> 00:51:05,396
Speaker 1: a good way to describe it. And with the limited

919
00:51:05,796 --> 00:51:10,316
Speaker 1: experience I'd had in my life up till then, it

920
00:51:10,396 --> 00:51:13,516
Speaker 1: seemed like if I didn't have that, I wasn't going

921
00:51:13,596 --> 00:51:16,756
Speaker 1: to have creativity. Like I thought that they were the

922
00:51:16,836 --> 00:51:18,916
Speaker 1: same thing, and I thought, if I didn't have that,

923
00:51:18,956 --> 00:51:20,556
Speaker 1: I'm going to go back to being how I was

924
00:51:20,596 --> 00:51:24,276
Speaker 1: at mother's milk time or something or And the one time,

925
00:51:24,636 --> 00:51:27,796
Speaker 1: the one activity that I could do that still was

926
00:51:27,876 --> 00:51:33,276
Speaker 1: producing that phenomenon was drawing and painting. And I guess

927
00:51:33,516 --> 00:51:35,316
Speaker 1: that had a lot to do with the fact that

928
00:51:35,356 --> 00:51:38,516
Speaker 1: there was no purpose to it. I wasn't doing it

929
00:51:38,556 --> 00:51:40,796
Speaker 1: for an audience. I wasn't doing it to be good.

930
00:51:40,956 --> 00:51:44,476
Speaker 1: I wasn't doing it to impress anybody. I wasn't doing

931
00:51:44,476 --> 00:51:48,716
Speaker 1: it to make money. So somehow that part of my

932
00:51:48,796 --> 00:51:53,076
Speaker 1: creativity gradually was the thing that I was clutching to

933
00:51:53,836 --> 00:51:58,276
Speaker 1: more and more, and music itself was starting to seem

934
00:51:58,276 --> 00:52:00,996
Speaker 1: more and more meaningless, and I was having a lot

935
00:52:00,996 --> 00:52:05,316
Speaker 1: of strange experiences. Were like I couldn't find any CDs

936
00:52:05,396 --> 00:52:07,876
Speaker 1: or records on the shelves that I wanted to hear.

937
00:52:07,996 --> 00:52:12,516
Speaker 1: Everyone had some sort of bad connotation to me, and

938
00:52:12,596 --> 00:52:17,956
Speaker 1: those experiences were really scary. And so where music had

939
00:52:17,996 --> 00:52:20,796
Speaker 1: felt like it like it was my best friend, it

940
00:52:20,836 --> 00:52:23,956
Speaker 1: was starting to feel like music itself was turning on

941
00:52:24,116 --> 00:52:27,356
Speaker 1: me or something. It felt like the voices in my

942
00:52:27,436 --> 00:52:31,236
Speaker 1: head that had been guiding me towards what had been

943
00:52:31,276 --> 00:52:34,316
Speaker 1: by far the most creative period of my life, we're

944
00:52:34,356 --> 00:52:38,236
Speaker 1: starting to seem like angry at me or opposed to

945
00:52:38,276 --> 00:52:42,036
Speaker 1: me in some way. We weren't we weren't. We weren't

946
00:52:42,036 --> 00:52:46,076
Speaker 1: working as a team anymore. And I felt like as

947
00:52:46,116 --> 00:52:49,556
Speaker 1: the tour went on, I couldn't explain any of this

948
00:52:49,596 --> 00:52:51,676
Speaker 1: stuff to anybody. I don't think I even knew the

949
00:52:51,676 --> 00:52:54,716
Speaker 1: word synesthesia. I don't, I just knew it felt like

950
00:52:54,756 --> 00:53:00,396
Speaker 1: my creativity was disappearing, and the painting and the drawing

951
00:53:00,796 --> 00:53:04,916
Speaker 1: and the drugs as well, were with my sense if

952
00:53:04,996 --> 00:53:07,476
Speaker 1: that if those feelings that I was having in me

953
00:53:07,596 --> 00:53:10,636
Speaker 1: were what creativity was, those seemed like the way, it

954
00:53:10,636 --> 00:53:13,036
Speaker 1: seemed like the way to hold onto it was to

955
00:53:13,996 --> 00:53:16,356
Speaker 1: take drugs as much as I wanted and to paint

956
00:53:16,356 --> 00:53:19,796
Speaker 1: and draw as much as possible. And that was really

957
00:53:19,836 --> 00:53:22,236
Speaker 1: you know, you learn different ways of doing this kind

958
00:53:22,236 --> 00:53:26,156
Speaker 1: of thing of staying connected to creativity in your life.

959
00:53:26,596 --> 00:53:29,476
Speaker 1: But at that time, you know, I was twenty two

960
00:53:29,596 --> 00:53:32,996
Speaker 1: years old, it seemed to me that you just followed

961
00:53:33,036 --> 00:53:37,436
Speaker 1: whatever those feelings that you have inside you are. You

962
00:53:37,556 --> 00:53:40,476
Speaker 1: just you stay connected to whatever gives you that feeling,

963
00:53:41,356 --> 00:53:45,636
Speaker 1: like the Dennis Joplin lyric about you know you've got

964
00:53:45,636 --> 00:53:48,196
Speaker 1: it if it makes you feel good, that that's that's

965
00:53:48,476 --> 00:53:52,156
Speaker 1: I thought that that was the path to follow. So

966
00:53:52,236 --> 00:53:55,276
Speaker 1: it didn't occur to me to do anything like stop

967
00:53:55,316 --> 00:53:59,436
Speaker 1: smoking pot or stop taking drugs, or you know, meditate,

968
00:53:59,636 --> 00:54:03,716
Speaker 1: not you know, these things just we're not We're not

969
00:54:03,996 --> 00:54:06,836
Speaker 1: anything that me or anybody that I was close to

970
00:54:07,036 --> 00:54:11,396
Speaker 1: was considering at the time. Did you even meditate back then? Yeah,

971
00:54:11,436 --> 00:54:14,636
Speaker 1: I learned when I was fourteen, of course, But I

972
00:54:14,676 --> 00:54:17,356
Speaker 1: remember I remember coming to see you when it was

973
00:54:17,396 --> 00:54:22,876
Speaker 1: bad at your old house, and it was you didn't

974
00:54:22,876 --> 00:54:25,996
Speaker 1: have many teeth then, if any, and the walls had

975
00:54:26,036 --> 00:54:28,356
Speaker 1: blood all over them. There was a lot of vomit everywhere,

976
00:54:29,116 --> 00:54:31,396
Speaker 1: and I think you may have still had one guitar,

977
00:54:31,476 --> 00:54:36,796
Speaker 1: but maybe not even that. And I remember you being

978
00:54:37,156 --> 00:54:39,916
Speaker 1: resolute in what you were doing. There was a sense

979
00:54:39,956 --> 00:54:43,636
Speaker 1: of it wasn't like you were trapped and you wanted

980
00:54:43,676 --> 00:54:45,596
Speaker 1: to get out. It was just the opposite. It's like, no,

981
00:54:45,676 --> 00:54:48,556
Speaker 1: this is I am following my path and I'm following

982
00:54:48,556 --> 00:54:54,076
Speaker 1: it to its end wherever it takes me. And you

983
00:54:54,276 --> 00:54:58,996
Speaker 1: definitely owned it, you know, you owned your choices and

984
00:54:58,996 --> 00:55:02,556
Speaker 1: were going it was again like I respect you. You know,

985
00:55:02,636 --> 00:55:06,476
Speaker 1: I wouldn't tell you didn't do anything different. Like if

986
00:55:06,516 --> 00:55:07,956
Speaker 1: you say this is what I want to do, it's

987
00:55:07,996 --> 00:55:10,316
Speaker 1: like I used and I wouldn't want anyone telling me

988
00:55:10,356 --> 00:55:12,636
Speaker 1: to do something different than what I want to do.

989
00:55:12,676 --> 00:55:14,916
Speaker 1: Whatever it is, whatever it is right or wrong or

990
00:55:15,276 --> 00:55:17,876
Speaker 1: good or bad or wherever it goes, Like I support

991
00:55:17,956 --> 00:55:21,596
Speaker 1: you in your journey, and if this is the journey

992
00:55:21,636 --> 00:55:23,596
Speaker 1: that feels like the one that you want to be on,

993
00:55:25,036 --> 00:55:28,156
Speaker 1: it's sad for me to see because it felt like

994
00:55:28,196 --> 00:55:32,556
Speaker 1: you were going away. I think you weighed very little

995
00:55:32,596 --> 00:55:35,356
Speaker 1: at that time too, and we're really weak, but you

996
00:55:35,356 --> 00:55:38,356
Speaker 1: were still you, and you were still smiley and like

997
00:55:38,396 --> 00:55:42,076
Speaker 1: you were. It wouldn't be so different than the conversation

998
00:55:42,196 --> 00:55:45,676
Speaker 1: we're having now, you know, other than it just seemed

999
00:55:45,716 --> 00:55:49,756
Speaker 1: more harrowing from an outsider coming in that this was

1000
00:55:50,716 --> 00:55:54,676
Speaker 1: a scary situation. Yeah, it's just so we have no

1001
00:55:54,796 --> 00:55:58,316
Speaker 1: context for this situation at any point in my life. Like,

1002
00:55:58,356 --> 00:56:01,596
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do other than I love you,

1003
00:56:01,636 --> 00:56:03,636
Speaker 1: I support you, whatever it is. I don't know what

1004
00:56:03,676 --> 00:56:05,996
Speaker 1: that is, you know, it's just scary. Yeah, no, I

1005
00:56:07,036 --> 00:56:08,956
Speaker 1: that was a funny thing about me during that period

1006
00:56:09,156 --> 00:56:11,716
Speaker 1: comparison to other people that I was friends with who

1007
00:56:11,756 --> 00:56:14,516
Speaker 1: went down in a similar path with drugs, was that

1008
00:56:14,956 --> 00:56:18,236
Speaker 1: they all felt guilty about it always, like they all

1009
00:56:18,756 --> 00:56:21,156
Speaker 1: denied it took them a long time to even admit

1010
00:56:21,196 --> 00:56:23,996
Speaker 1: that they were an addict, and took them a long

1011
00:56:24,076 --> 00:56:27,276
Speaker 1: time to and they would they would always be talking

1012
00:56:27,276 --> 00:56:29,116
Speaker 1: about how they were going to quit. They were always

1013
00:56:29,196 --> 00:56:32,996
Speaker 1: talking about how this is the last time. And I

1014
00:56:33,076 --> 00:56:35,556
Speaker 1: never did any of that. Like, while I was doing it,

1015
00:56:35,636 --> 00:56:37,596
Speaker 1: I was really happy doing it. I was so happy

1016
00:56:37,636 --> 00:56:40,236
Speaker 1: to still be in touch with that spark of creativity

1017
00:56:40,236 --> 00:56:43,236
Speaker 1: inside myself, and I really felt that it was drifting

1018
00:56:43,236 --> 00:56:45,596
Speaker 1: away while I was playing with the band, and when

1019
00:56:45,676 --> 00:56:48,556
Speaker 1: I as long as I had to do publicity and

1020
00:56:49,276 --> 00:56:53,316
Speaker 1: you know, and touring and all these things, performing in

1021
00:56:53,356 --> 00:56:56,076
Speaker 1: front of people, it just felt like it was there

1022
00:56:56,156 --> 00:56:57,996
Speaker 1: was no It seemed to me there was no direction

1023
00:56:57,996 --> 00:57:00,796
Speaker 1: for it to go to but to disappear completely. And

1024
00:57:01,276 --> 00:57:03,036
Speaker 1: I felt that in what I was doing, I was

1025
00:57:03,116 --> 00:57:06,516
Speaker 1: keeping it alive. And really the hard time for me

1026
00:57:06,676 --> 00:57:09,396
Speaker 1: was when I was when I attempted to stop, Like

1027
00:57:10,596 --> 00:57:14,636
Speaker 1: there was about a year there where I just didn't

1028
00:57:14,676 --> 00:57:18,036
Speaker 1: feel like myself anymore and the feelings went completely away,

1029
00:57:18,196 --> 00:57:22,236
Speaker 1: Like once I stopped taking drugs, there was nothing. My

1030
00:57:22,716 --> 00:57:25,716
Speaker 1: head was blank, there was no there was no seeing

1031
00:57:26,036 --> 00:57:28,916
Speaker 1: music as colors or music as shapes or anything like

1032
00:57:28,956 --> 00:57:31,716
Speaker 1: that anymore. It was just tell me the story of

1033
00:57:31,756 --> 00:57:33,756
Speaker 1: deciding to stop. You told me a story when I

1034
00:57:33,796 --> 00:57:35,596
Speaker 1: first saw you after that, and I want to see

1035
00:57:35,596 --> 00:57:37,956
Speaker 1: if it is still what it was then or close

1036
00:57:37,996 --> 00:57:40,556
Speaker 1: to what it was then. Yeah, the last time I

1037
00:57:40,556 --> 00:57:42,836
Speaker 1: saw you at your house when things were scary for

1038
00:57:42,916 --> 00:57:46,836
Speaker 1: me to see you were very positive on this journey

1039
00:57:46,836 --> 00:57:51,196
Speaker 1: that you were on and it was an unflinching move

1040
00:57:51,476 --> 00:57:54,036
Speaker 1: wherever it was going to go. And then the next

1041
00:57:54,076 --> 00:57:58,396
Speaker 1: time I saw you was at Lachma at a Bunuelle

1042
00:57:59,236 --> 00:58:02,036
Speaker 1: movie festival, and I didn't recognize you because you looked

1043
00:58:02,156 --> 00:58:05,236
Speaker 1: so radically different, but you were great and healthy, and

1044
00:58:05,276 --> 00:58:07,756
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it. I was so happy. I was

1045
00:58:07,796 --> 00:58:09,756
Speaker 1: so happy to see you, so happy to see you alive.

1046
00:58:09,796 --> 00:58:12,076
Speaker 1: It was so happy to see you, and you were

1047
00:58:12,196 --> 00:58:15,476
Speaker 1: your your again, your happy self. So tell me about

1048
00:58:15,516 --> 00:58:19,876
Speaker 1: what happened in between for that to happen, right, Okay,

1049
00:58:20,996 --> 00:58:24,036
Speaker 1: getting specific, I'm pretty sure that that time when I

1050
00:58:24,076 --> 00:58:29,076
Speaker 1: saw you at the nuel thing was during that first

1051
00:58:29,316 --> 00:58:33,276
Speaker 1: year that I had gotten over the addiction of heroin

1052
00:58:33,396 --> 00:58:36,916
Speaker 1: that I've never since then had to be medicated to

1053
00:58:36,956 --> 00:58:40,836
Speaker 1: get off heroin. But but it was about a year

1054
00:58:40,876 --> 00:58:43,236
Speaker 1: where most of the time I was clean, but I

1055
00:58:43,276 --> 00:58:48,636
Speaker 1: also was had certain points during it where I had

1056
00:58:48,676 --> 00:58:52,396
Speaker 1: a speed binge or a crack binge or something like

1057
00:58:52,436 --> 00:58:55,036
Speaker 1: I was I had this idea that I could do things.

1058
00:58:55,436 --> 00:58:58,036
Speaker 1: I really always wanted to be able to do things occasionally,

1059
00:58:58,156 --> 00:59:00,076
Speaker 1: you know, And so that was my first attempt to

1060
00:59:01,036 --> 00:59:03,716
Speaker 1: do that, And and it was a It was a

1061
00:59:03,756 --> 00:59:07,076
Speaker 1: hard period because that thing where you didn't recognize me,

1062
00:59:07,196 --> 00:59:10,116
Speaker 1: like a lot of a lot of people had that

1063
00:59:10,436 --> 00:59:14,076
Speaker 1: with me at the time, like my body's ability. My

1064
00:59:14,116 --> 00:59:17,156
Speaker 1: body had forgotten how to process food, you know, like

1065
00:59:17,156 --> 00:59:20,636
Speaker 1: like and I didn't know anything. Really I was. I

1066
00:59:20,676 --> 00:59:23,156
Speaker 1: was trying to eat what I thought was health food,

1067
00:59:23,236 --> 00:59:27,316
Speaker 1: but it wasn't really super helping. And I felt very

1068
00:59:27,436 --> 00:59:31,276
Speaker 1: uncomfortable in my body, and so I was that first

1069
00:59:31,356 --> 00:59:34,116
Speaker 1: year was really a struggle because I not only was

1070
00:59:34,156 --> 00:59:36,596
Speaker 1: I trying to exist in the world knowing I don't

1071
00:59:36,596 --> 00:59:40,916
Speaker 1: have those things that I was describing as feelings and

1072
00:59:41,116 --> 00:59:45,316
Speaker 1: vibes connected with music anymore, at least it wasn't in

1073
00:59:45,356 --> 00:59:47,996
Speaker 1: the pronounced way that it was when I had synesthesia.

1074
00:59:48,156 --> 00:59:52,116
Speaker 1: But boy, did joy division mean everything to me back then?

1075
00:59:52,196 --> 00:59:57,516
Speaker 1: Did like Nirvana Bob Marley Joy divisions those three things

1076
00:59:57,516 --> 01:00:01,196
Speaker 1: in particular, Like I was so crazy about those particular things,

1077
01:00:01,276 --> 01:00:05,636
Speaker 1: like I just they meant so much to me, And

1078
01:00:06,356 --> 01:00:10,396
Speaker 1: I didn't have that specific, colorful reaction to them that

1079
01:00:10,436 --> 01:00:13,596
Speaker 1: I was describing that you know, from the Blood Sugar time.

1080
01:00:13,636 --> 01:00:16,956
Speaker 1: But I don't think music had ever meant so much

1081
01:00:16,996 --> 01:00:22,156
Speaker 1: to me because life seemed so bleak. Otherwise, people didn't

1082
01:00:22,236 --> 01:00:25,836
Speaker 1: really enjoy being around me. People felt sorry for me

1083
01:00:25,876 --> 01:00:28,836
Speaker 1: a lot. The same sense of humor that used to

1084
01:00:28,876 --> 01:00:31,756
Speaker 1: be funny when I was like the young, handsome, cool guy,

1085
01:00:32,476 --> 01:00:36,756
Speaker 1: now like the same jokes didn't work anymore, Like the

1086
01:00:36,796 --> 01:00:40,356
Speaker 1: same sense of humor it wasn't working. I'm convinced that

1087
01:00:40,396 --> 01:00:43,676
Speaker 1: I was that when I was twenty twenty one, I

1088
01:00:43,676 --> 01:00:46,116
Speaker 1: could have been an actor. At that time twenty seven,

1089
01:00:46,516 --> 01:00:48,756
Speaker 1: I had the distinct feeling I could never be an

1090
01:00:48,796 --> 01:00:52,436
Speaker 1: actor again. After this experience of realizing like how much

1091
01:00:52,676 --> 01:00:56,796
Speaker 1: of myself was on the surface that was the reason

1092
01:00:56,876 --> 01:01:01,876
Speaker 1: that my personality was what it was. It was very traumatic,

1093
01:01:02,116 --> 01:01:05,596
Speaker 1: and so that year was tough, and it ended with

1094
01:01:05,836 --> 01:01:10,276
Speaker 1: a few months of me making sure I avoided heroin addiction,

1095
01:01:11,516 --> 01:01:14,596
Speaker 1: but just doing whatever I wanted and going really off

1096
01:01:14,636 --> 01:01:19,396
Speaker 1: to deep end and having these crazy experiences where they

1097
01:01:19,436 --> 01:01:22,756
Speaker 1: were hallucinations but they were very real for me, where

1098
01:01:22,756 --> 01:01:25,276
Speaker 1: like people were in my house that weren't there, and

1099
01:01:25,316 --> 01:01:29,916
Speaker 1: I spent hours talking to them and stuff. Marcel Duchamp,

1100
01:01:29,996 --> 01:01:33,276
Speaker 1: Flee and Clara like Perry Farrell, all kinds of people

1101
01:01:33,316 --> 01:01:35,596
Speaker 1: were there and I thought they were there. I would

1102
01:01:35,596 --> 01:01:40,716
Speaker 1: call them afterwards talking about what we had done yesterday,

1103
01:01:40,916 --> 01:01:43,396
Speaker 1: why did you leave when? Because they would just disappear

1104
01:01:43,476 --> 01:01:45,716
Speaker 1: after a matter of hours of hanging out with each other,

1105
01:01:45,756 --> 01:01:48,036
Speaker 1: and then they would just disappear, and I would call

1106
01:01:48,076 --> 01:01:51,756
Speaker 1: them wondering what happened? Where did you go? And it

1107
01:01:51,796 --> 01:01:54,556
Speaker 1: wasn't until I'd had that experience a bunch of times

1108
01:01:54,556 --> 01:01:57,756
Speaker 1: that I realized, Wow, these things I'm hanging out with

1109
01:01:57,796 --> 01:02:00,236
Speaker 1: people really late at night, and that was that was

1110
01:02:00,276 --> 01:02:02,956
Speaker 1: the way to know for me, like if somebody's here

1111
01:02:02,956 --> 01:02:05,596
Speaker 1: and it's two in the morning, they're not actually here.

1112
01:02:06,276 --> 01:02:09,436
Speaker 1: So that was a that was a pretty mind blowing

1113
01:02:09,516 --> 01:02:12,196
Speaker 1: period of time because I remember trying to make four

1114
01:02:12,236 --> 01:02:14,476
Speaker 1: track recordings at that time and finding that I was

1115
01:02:14,516 --> 01:02:18,476
Speaker 1: completely unable to follow a musical idea from to its completion.

1116
01:02:19,876 --> 01:02:23,636
Speaker 1: But as far as experientially, what was happening during that

1117
01:02:23,676 --> 01:02:25,916
Speaker 1: period of time, as far as my experience is listening

1118
01:02:25,956 --> 01:02:30,956
Speaker 1: to music and having feelings, and I don't know if

1119
01:02:30,956 --> 01:02:34,396
Speaker 1: it was communication with people's astrabodies or hallucinations, I'm not

1120
01:02:34,436 --> 01:02:37,396
Speaker 1: sure what it was, but it was very real and

1121
01:02:37,436 --> 01:02:40,876
Speaker 1: I remember getting there was a very loud voice in

1122
01:02:40,876 --> 01:02:43,316
Speaker 1: my head that said, you're going to be dead by

1123
01:02:43,316 --> 01:02:47,956
Speaker 1: your birthday. This is in December, and my birthday would

1124
01:02:47,956 --> 01:02:50,796
Speaker 1: have been four months later. And the voice said, you're

1125
01:02:50,796 --> 01:02:53,436
Speaker 1: going to be dead by your birthday unless you get clean.

1126
01:02:54,396 --> 01:02:59,316
Speaker 1: And so I was pondering this, not sure, because throughout

1127
01:02:59,356 --> 01:03:04,156
Speaker 1: that year that I tried to be clean, it didn't

1128
01:03:04,156 --> 01:03:06,236
Speaker 1: seem like anybody wanted to be my friend. It didn't

1129
01:03:06,236 --> 01:03:08,676
Speaker 1: seem like anybody wanted to really connect with me. It

1130
01:03:08,756 --> 01:03:10,956
Speaker 1: didn't seemed like I knew how to interact with people.

1131
01:03:12,596 --> 01:03:15,636
Speaker 1: And so all of a sudden, that voice came saying

1132
01:03:15,756 --> 01:03:17,836
Speaker 1: that I was gonna that I was going to die

1133
01:03:17,876 --> 01:03:21,476
Speaker 1: in a few months. And all of a sudden, all

1134
01:03:21,516 --> 01:03:26,076
Speaker 1: these things started happening that forced me into a position

1135
01:03:26,076 --> 01:03:29,916
Speaker 1: of having to get clean. I had several thousand dollars

1136
01:03:29,916 --> 01:03:34,036
Speaker 1: probably six seven thousand dollars in cash in my closet

1137
01:03:34,196 --> 01:03:37,476
Speaker 1: and that I would carry around with me, and I

1138
01:03:37,516 --> 01:03:41,196
Speaker 1: went downtown to buy some drugs and I came back

1139
01:03:41,396 --> 01:03:44,476
Speaker 1: and well, no, the first thing that happened was the

1140
01:03:44,556 --> 01:03:46,356
Speaker 1: landlord came to my house said he had to look

1141
01:03:46,396 --> 01:03:49,996
Speaker 1: inside my house, and I said, I can't let you

1142
01:03:50,036 --> 01:03:54,756
Speaker 1: in because there was needles and blood and different things.

1143
01:03:54,996 --> 01:03:57,076
Speaker 1: And it was a real mess. Even if it wasn't

1144
01:03:57,116 --> 01:03:59,556
Speaker 1: for the needles and blood. It was just messy and disgusting,

1145
01:04:00,076 --> 01:04:03,036
Speaker 1: and I knew he wouldn't be happy, and so he said, well,

1146
01:04:03,916 --> 01:04:05,836
Speaker 1: if you don't let me in buy tomorrow, I'm going

1147
01:04:05,876 --> 01:04:08,116
Speaker 1: to have to come here with the police. And I

1148
01:04:08,116 --> 01:04:12,076
Speaker 1: already had a warrant for my arrest because I'd gotten

1149
01:04:12,116 --> 01:04:16,116
Speaker 1: picked up downtown buying drugs. But they let me go,

1150
01:04:17,196 --> 01:04:19,556
Speaker 1: and I mean they let they let me out. There

1151
01:04:19,596 --> 01:04:22,076
Speaker 1: was a court date coming in the future. So that

1152
01:04:22,156 --> 01:04:23,756
Speaker 1: was the first thing I did, was I got everything

1153
01:04:23,756 --> 01:04:27,196
Speaker 1: I needed out of that house and had had an

1154
01:04:27,236 --> 01:04:31,316
Speaker 1: acquaintance drive me to a hotel. And then I had

1155
01:04:31,316 --> 01:04:34,676
Speaker 1: that six or seven thousand dollars and came back from

1156
01:04:34,676 --> 01:04:37,996
Speaker 1: buying drugs and the money just was gone. I had

1157
01:04:38,116 --> 01:04:40,716
Speaker 1: no idea where it could have gone. My best bet

1158
01:04:40,756 --> 01:04:44,076
Speaker 1: was that somehow I lost it in the taxi, but

1159
01:04:44,236 --> 01:04:47,316
Speaker 1: that was all the money I had. And then Bob,

1160
01:04:47,996 --> 01:04:50,036
Speaker 1: the friend of mine, put me on the phone with

1161
01:04:50,076 --> 01:04:53,476
Speaker 1: Bob Forrest, and he said, I can get you in

1162
01:04:53,596 --> 01:04:57,196
Speaker 1: a clinic to get off drugs. You can do it

1163
01:04:57,236 --> 01:05:00,876
Speaker 1: however you want, you know, I told him I'm not

1164
01:05:00,916 --> 01:05:03,796
Speaker 1: addicted to anything. I don't need. I don't need pills

1165
01:05:03,876 --> 01:05:07,516
Speaker 1: or anything. And he said, if you don't want to

1166
01:05:07,516 --> 01:05:10,076
Speaker 1: take them, you don't have to take them. You need

1167
01:05:10,116 --> 01:05:13,556
Speaker 1: to go in there just to reset your mind. And

1168
01:05:13,556 --> 01:05:15,916
Speaker 1: and uh, I really had no choice. I mean it

1169
01:05:15,916 --> 01:05:18,356
Speaker 1: would have been between that and just being a bomb

1170
01:05:18,476 --> 01:05:21,276
Speaker 1: on the street, you know, like moving into a tent

1171
01:05:21,396 --> 01:05:25,076
Speaker 1: or something. And so I did it. And this for

1172
01:05:25,116 --> 01:05:27,156
Speaker 1: the first time. I tried a few times to get

1173
01:05:27,156 --> 01:05:31,156
Speaker 1: off drugs, but this time I had had a feeling

1174
01:05:31,316 --> 01:05:35,236
Speaker 1: for the people who were there. Instead of arguing about

1175
01:05:35,796 --> 01:05:39,036
Speaker 1: the wisdom of being completely clean and admitting yourself an

1176
01:05:39,036 --> 01:05:41,676
Speaker 1: addict and that means you can't ever take anything, instead

1177
01:05:41,716 --> 01:05:44,516
Speaker 1: of arguing with this stuff, I really tried my best

1178
01:05:44,676 --> 01:05:47,276
Speaker 1: to help the other people who I was in there with.

1179
01:05:48,076 --> 01:05:52,116
Speaker 1: And by some weird fluke, like DH, the original drummer

1180
01:05:52,156 --> 01:05:53,796
Speaker 1: I played in the band with, wound up in the

1181
01:05:53,836 --> 01:05:59,236
Speaker 1: same hospital with me at the same time. And yeah,

1182
01:05:59,236 --> 01:06:02,516
Speaker 1: so I just felt this empathy for the people that

1183
01:06:02,596 --> 01:06:05,756
Speaker 1: I like, I thought, regardless of what happens with me,

1184
01:06:05,836 --> 01:06:07,876
Speaker 1: like I want to, I don't want to mess up

1185
01:06:07,876 --> 01:06:11,316
Speaker 1: anybody else's experience because they're all they've all been having

1186
01:06:11,356 --> 01:06:14,316
Speaker 1: a harmful effect on their loved ones and people around them,

1187
01:06:14,356 --> 01:06:17,876
Speaker 1: and like, I'm not going to say anything to argue

1188
01:06:17,956 --> 01:06:22,676
Speaker 1: with their attempt to better themselves, you know. And so yeah,

1189
01:06:22,676 --> 01:06:25,636
Speaker 1: so I went through that that thirty days and that

1190
01:06:25,756 --> 01:06:29,196
Speaker 1: was the December of nineteen ninety seven, and nineteen ninety

1191
01:06:29,196 --> 01:06:31,676
Speaker 1: eight turned out to be really productive. You're the first

1192
01:06:31,676 --> 01:06:34,076
Speaker 1: few months again, we're really boring. I didn't feel good

1193
01:06:34,116 --> 01:06:36,676
Speaker 1: inside myself. And I feel like, especially nowadays with the

1194
01:06:36,716 --> 01:06:40,876
Speaker 1: Internet and stuff, people forget how valuable it can be

1195
01:06:40,956 --> 01:06:45,396
Speaker 1: to just be really bored, you know, absolutely how valuable

1196
01:06:45,436 --> 01:06:48,916
Speaker 1: it can be to realize I'm not comfortable in my body,

1197
01:06:49,196 --> 01:06:53,956
Speaker 1: you know, to realize I have no ability to communicate

1198
01:06:53,956 --> 01:06:58,836
Speaker 1: with people, you know, to push yourself and to try

1199
01:06:58,876 --> 01:07:01,836
Speaker 1: to get better at at at listening to people and

1200
01:07:01,876 --> 01:07:06,116
Speaker 1: talking with people and having fun with people all that stuff,

1201
01:07:06,196 --> 01:07:08,316
Speaker 1: like to actually have to make an effort for it,

1202
01:07:08,396 --> 01:07:10,356
Speaker 1: not to be able to just be some automatic thing

1203
01:07:10,356 --> 01:07:13,236
Speaker 1: you can do by saying something you think is witty

1204
01:07:13,396 --> 01:07:16,716
Speaker 1: that you don't actually see the reaction to, you know.

1205
01:07:17,436 --> 01:07:19,916
Speaker 1: And yeah, so I had several months that were really boring,

1206
01:07:20,116 --> 01:07:23,316
Speaker 1: and then I think other people, you know, saw me

1207
01:07:23,436 --> 01:07:25,356
Speaker 1: as being at a really good place. And before I

1208
01:07:25,436 --> 01:07:26,996
Speaker 1: knew it. They asked me to be in the band

1209
01:07:27,036 --> 01:07:31,876
Speaker 1: again and we started writing Californication. How many years was

1210
01:07:31,916 --> 01:07:35,076
Speaker 1: it between leaving the band and coming back that time,

1211
01:07:35,316 --> 01:07:38,116
Speaker 1: I think about four and a half years, maybe five years,

1212
01:07:38,796 --> 01:07:43,276
Speaker 1: And yeah, like I didn't know what I was capable

1213
01:07:43,316 --> 01:07:46,236
Speaker 1: of anymore, but it didn't matter. I think something had

1214
01:07:46,236 --> 01:07:50,276
Speaker 1: turned around in my head where I realized that making

1215
01:07:50,396 --> 01:07:56,116
Speaker 1: music wasn't about making music so you could generate these

1216
01:07:56,116 --> 01:08:00,116
Speaker 1: intense feelings within yourself, Like I think I was almost

1217
01:08:00,116 --> 01:08:02,396
Speaker 1: looking at it before, at the Blood Sugar time, as

1218
01:08:02,396 --> 01:08:05,116
Speaker 1: if making music was a way of creating a sort

1219
01:08:05,156 --> 01:08:07,756
Speaker 1: of a painting in my head or something. You know.

1220
01:08:09,356 --> 01:08:12,396
Speaker 1: Throughout those all those years, the music that I really

1221
01:08:12,396 --> 01:08:15,316
Speaker 1: felt strongly about, like those people I just mentioned, and

1222
01:08:15,636 --> 01:08:20,196
Speaker 1: Jane's addiction and the Germs and David Bowie, the things

1223
01:08:20,276 --> 01:08:23,676
Speaker 1: that really meant something to me from music, it felt

1224
01:08:23,676 --> 01:08:28,076
Speaker 1: as if those people were giving me their friendship. It

1225
01:08:29,116 --> 01:08:33,436
Speaker 1: felt like like when I was alone, they were my friends.

1226
01:08:33,996 --> 01:08:35,916
Speaker 1: So I think I had it in my head that

1227
01:08:36,276 --> 01:08:40,436
Speaker 1: I suspected and I wasn't sure that making music can

1228
01:08:40,476 --> 01:08:45,196
Speaker 1: be a way of helping other people, a way of

1229
01:08:45,436 --> 01:08:49,716
Speaker 1: giving to other people, not taking yourself from the music

1230
01:08:50,756 --> 01:08:54,556
Speaker 1: that your own experience might be very bland, but you

1231
01:08:54,676 --> 01:08:57,156
Speaker 1: might have something in your soul that you can by

1232
01:08:57,196 --> 01:09:00,236
Speaker 1: attempting to do something that you think is good, that

1233
01:09:00,276 --> 01:09:05,316
Speaker 1: you can give to other people that can function much

1234
01:09:05,356 --> 01:09:09,116
Speaker 1: like a good doctor does, where you're making people feel better.

1235
01:09:10,556 --> 01:09:12,476
Speaker 1: And those are the kind of ideas that were swimming

1236
01:09:12,516 --> 01:09:14,876
Speaker 1: around in my head at the time, and I had

1237
01:09:14,916 --> 01:09:17,916
Speaker 1: a lot of ideas. I had never regretted quitting the

1238
01:09:17,956 --> 01:09:20,716
Speaker 1: band during that five years, but towards the end of it,

1239
01:09:20,796 --> 01:09:24,196
Speaker 1: I started having these visions of what we could have

1240
01:09:24,276 --> 01:09:27,596
Speaker 1: done back in those days if if I had stayed

1241
01:09:27,596 --> 01:09:32,596
Speaker 1: with the band, What new musical territories could we have covered,

1242
01:09:32,796 --> 01:09:36,316
Speaker 1: you know what? What what new ways could we have

1243
01:09:36,716 --> 01:09:40,876
Speaker 1: combined that melodic aspect with the funk aspect and things

1244
01:09:40,916 --> 01:09:44,276
Speaker 1: like this. Because I'm that Blood Sugar album, it's it's

1245
01:09:44,316 --> 01:09:48,396
Speaker 1: kind of segregated. It's like there's the mellow melodic songs,

1246
01:09:48,436 --> 01:09:52,876
Speaker 1: and there's there's the funky, fun kind of songs, and

1247
01:09:52,876 --> 01:09:54,876
Speaker 1: and there's a little bit across over here and there,

1248
01:09:54,916 --> 01:09:59,236
Speaker 1: but mostly they're distinctly separate. And so I started seeing

1249
01:09:59,236 --> 01:10:02,356
Speaker 1: how the two things could have fused together in different ways,

1250
01:10:02,996 --> 01:10:04,716
Speaker 1: and so when they asked me to be in the band,

1251
01:10:04,836 --> 01:10:07,916
Speaker 1: immediately I started being excited about, Wow, that maybe those

1252
01:10:08,396 --> 01:10:10,556
Speaker 1: that music I've was hearing in my head that was

1253
01:10:10,956 --> 01:10:13,116
Speaker 1: you know, that was something that I thought was just

1254
01:10:14,316 --> 01:10:16,556
Speaker 1: something that could have happened in the past that never

1255
01:10:16,636 --> 01:10:19,356
Speaker 1: can happen again. Maybe it can actually, maybe I can

1256
01:10:19,356 --> 01:10:22,596
Speaker 1: actually do those things. And we did them and we

1257
01:10:22,596 --> 01:10:26,916
Speaker 1: were really excited about them. So and once that album

1258
01:10:26,996 --> 01:10:28,876
Speaker 1: was done and it did as well as it did

1259
01:10:28,916 --> 01:10:31,436
Speaker 1: and stuff, and it made people as happy as it

1260
01:10:31,436 --> 01:10:35,196
Speaker 1: did it just like it made me realize, Yeah, it's true,

1261
01:10:35,276 --> 01:10:38,116
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't really matter if you have if you're

1262
01:10:38,196 --> 01:10:41,036
Speaker 1: blank in your head or if you have a ton

1263
01:10:41,076 --> 01:10:45,556
Speaker 1: of swirthly you know, colorful scenes going on in your

1264
01:10:45,556 --> 01:10:47,756
Speaker 1: head while you're making music. That's not what it's about.

1265
01:10:47,796 --> 01:10:51,956
Speaker 1: It's about really connecting with the people you're playing with,

1266
01:10:52,036 --> 01:10:55,436
Speaker 1: supporting the people you're playing with. You know, writing music

1267
01:10:55,516 --> 01:10:59,196
Speaker 1: that you feel is somehow connected to the music that

1268
01:10:59,316 --> 01:11:01,836
Speaker 1: you really love that means something to you. And to

1269
01:11:01,996 --> 01:11:06,276
Speaker 1: have that mindset of wanting to share something with with

1270
01:11:06,476 --> 01:11:08,956
Speaker 1: the people that you're making music with and with the

1271
01:11:09,236 --> 01:11:11,916
Speaker 1: people in the world who might eventually hear it. You know,

1272
01:11:12,956 --> 01:11:16,876
Speaker 1: even as something as specific as going into the studio

1273
01:11:17,396 --> 01:11:19,996
Speaker 1: and playing a song together and getting a good take

1274
01:11:21,036 --> 01:11:24,716
Speaker 1: is a wildly exciting feeling. Yeah, you know, like when

1275
01:11:24,756 --> 01:11:27,996
Speaker 1: it comes together and you hear it really sound good.

1276
01:11:29,076 --> 01:11:31,396
Speaker 1: I find it thrilling because a lot it doesn't always

1277
01:11:31,436 --> 01:11:34,596
Speaker 1: you know, like sometimes playing it's like, oh, that's it's okay.

1278
01:11:34,596 --> 01:11:40,636
Speaker 1: But when it really does something beyond the regular, it's

1279
01:11:40,636 --> 01:11:44,156
Speaker 1: a very thrilling feeling being in the room and feeling

1280
01:11:44,156 --> 01:11:48,036
Speaker 1: it happen. Yeah. And there's something about that thing that

1281
01:11:48,236 --> 01:11:50,236
Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier that I feel like you

1282
01:11:50,356 --> 01:11:53,596
Speaker 1: kind of infused on us. Where your object going into

1283
01:11:53,676 --> 01:11:56,076
Speaker 1: it isn't to have a premonition that that's the feeling

1284
01:11:56,076 --> 01:11:58,356
Speaker 1: you're going to get. You go in with a kind

1285
01:11:58,396 --> 01:12:01,676
Speaker 1: of a humility and a kind of an innocence, not

1286
01:12:01,796 --> 01:12:04,756
Speaker 1: knowing how it's supposed to sound, not knowing what it's

1287
01:12:04,756 --> 01:12:07,356
Speaker 1: going to come back sounding like. And yeah, so when

1288
01:12:07,356 --> 01:12:10,556
Speaker 1: you go in with that mindset of just being ready

1289
01:12:10,556 --> 01:12:13,636
Speaker 1: for whatever to happen, and then you realize you're really

1290
01:12:13,676 --> 01:12:15,916
Speaker 1: happy with what's coming out of the speakers, it's true,

1291
01:12:15,916 --> 01:12:20,196
Speaker 1: it's really thrilling. It's a great feeling. It's different than

1292
01:12:20,556 --> 01:12:22,916
Speaker 1: I want it to be this way, and like check

1293
01:12:22,996 --> 01:12:25,076
Speaker 1: I did it. It's different than Matt. It's when it

1294
01:12:25,916 --> 01:12:28,796
Speaker 1: when when it feels like something bigger is happening than

1295
01:12:28,876 --> 01:12:32,356
Speaker 1: what we can control ourselves, and I see it happened.

1296
01:12:32,436 --> 01:12:35,516
Speaker 1: I see it happen a lot in your band, where

1297
01:12:36,356 --> 01:12:42,076
Speaker 1: something happens where the way everybody feels it and when

1298
01:12:42,116 --> 01:12:47,556
Speaker 1: everyone leans in the same way together, something big happens, right,

1299
01:12:47,876 --> 01:12:50,356
Speaker 1: and it feels bigger than the individual parts. Not to

1300
01:12:50,396 --> 01:12:53,636
Speaker 1: take anything away from the individual parts, but the combo

1301
01:12:53,996 --> 01:12:59,556
Speaker 1: does some thing and it's very exciting. Yeah. Yeah, we're

1302
01:12:59,596 --> 01:13:03,356
Speaker 1: all really conscious of giving to each other and supporting

1303
01:13:03,356 --> 01:13:06,516
Speaker 1: each other. You know. We see the space between the

1304
01:13:06,556 --> 01:13:08,996
Speaker 1: parts as being the fundamental thing. I don't think any

1305
01:13:09,116 --> 01:13:12,636
Speaker 1: idea is overconcerned with their own part, you know, like

1306
01:13:13,116 --> 01:13:18,236
Speaker 1: everybody's trying to find the right relationship between their part

1307
01:13:18,276 --> 01:13:20,996
Speaker 1: and the and the bass part there. Or it's like

1308
01:13:21,036 --> 01:13:22,796
Speaker 1: for me, my part in the bass part, my part

1309
01:13:22,796 --> 01:13:24,836
Speaker 1: and the drum part, my part in the vocal part,

1310
01:13:25,036 --> 01:13:29,236
Speaker 1: like you're trying to find a relationship to the other things.

1311
01:13:29,316 --> 01:13:31,916
Speaker 1: You're not trying to do your part as if your

1312
01:13:31,916 --> 01:13:34,156
Speaker 1: part exists in one bubble and their part exists in

1313
01:13:34,196 --> 01:13:38,556
Speaker 1: another bubble, so it seems like that mindset, it definitely

1314
01:13:38,556 --> 01:13:43,236
Speaker 1: contributes to the to the effect that you're talking about. Yeah,

1315
01:13:43,276 --> 01:13:47,756
Speaker 1: that Californication record really like, like when I listened to

1316
01:13:47,756 --> 01:13:51,076
Speaker 1: all our records, it's my favorite one in terms of

1317
01:13:51,196 --> 01:13:56,036
Speaker 1: the band's connection to each other. And it seems like

1318
01:13:56,076 --> 01:13:58,876
Speaker 1: we were we were really all opening up this door

1319
01:13:58,996 --> 01:14:02,196
Speaker 1: that made us able to to do that that we

1320
01:14:02,236 --> 01:14:06,396
Speaker 1: hadn't seen was there. And and like a lot of

1321
01:14:06,396 --> 01:14:10,396
Speaker 1: people think like that my playing was like less developed

1322
01:14:10,396 --> 01:14:12,436
Speaker 1: then or something that I got better as it went

1323
01:14:12,476 --> 01:14:14,796
Speaker 1: towards stadium and I get arcadium, And I can see

1324
01:14:14,796 --> 01:14:18,996
Speaker 1: how people think that, but because maybe technically I got better,

1325
01:14:19,076 --> 01:14:21,956
Speaker 1: but I really wanted to play in the way that

1326
01:14:22,036 --> 01:14:26,356
Speaker 1: I was playing then, Like stylistically, I felt like having

1327
01:14:26,356 --> 01:14:29,316
Speaker 1: a tone that was like clean to the point of

1328
01:14:29,316 --> 01:14:32,076
Speaker 1: being like weak sounding. I felt like it made Chat

1329
01:14:32,076 --> 01:14:35,636
Speaker 1: and Flee sound really good, you know. And to play

1330
01:14:35,836 --> 01:14:40,236
Speaker 1: in a way that was simple and kind of feminine,

1331
01:14:40,476 --> 01:14:45,276
Speaker 1: like not so much the macho, you know, guitar god guy,

1332
01:14:45,436 --> 01:14:48,356
Speaker 1: but to play in a way that that was again

1333
01:14:48,476 --> 01:14:51,996
Speaker 1: just as simple as possible and supportive of everything else.

1334
01:14:52,596 --> 01:14:54,876
Speaker 1: I felt like it made them sound really good, you know,

1335
01:14:55,076 --> 01:14:57,516
Speaker 1: And I don't know. It's something I try not to

1336
01:14:57,556 --> 01:14:59,996
Speaker 1: lose connection with because I really do love just going

1337
01:15:00,036 --> 01:15:02,476
Speaker 1: off on the guitar and playing in a wild way.

1338
01:15:02,556 --> 01:15:07,396
Speaker 1: But but there's definitely something to be said for for

1339
01:15:07,516 --> 01:15:09,436
Speaker 1: the way I approached it on that record. I was

1340
01:15:09,476 --> 01:15:12,876
Speaker 1: really inspired. I went into it knowing, Okay, I don't

1341
01:15:12,916 --> 01:15:15,636
Speaker 1: sound like Jimmy Hendricks right now, you know, like I

1342
01:15:15,756 --> 01:15:18,236
Speaker 1: played guitar on and off for those four years, but

1343
01:15:18,676 --> 01:15:21,076
Speaker 1: I didn't have the same kind of muscular ability that

1344
01:15:21,116 --> 01:15:24,796
Speaker 1: I did then, So like my vibrato didn't sound like

1345
01:15:26,836 --> 01:15:29,716
Speaker 1: I couldn't do that Jimmy Hendricks kind of vibrato. But

1346
01:15:29,796 --> 01:15:32,276
Speaker 1: I practiced really hard and I got to the point

1347
01:15:32,276 --> 01:15:33,916
Speaker 1: where I think I could have done it, but I

1348
01:15:34,036 --> 01:15:36,196
Speaker 1: was by the time we went in the studio, But

1349
01:15:36,236 --> 01:15:39,396
Speaker 1: I was along the way. I developed this style that

1350
01:15:39,436 --> 01:15:42,676
Speaker 1: I thought was better that was rooted more in stuff

1351
01:15:42,716 --> 01:15:46,156
Speaker 1: like Joy Division and Bow Wow Wow and The Cure

1352
01:15:46,316 --> 01:15:49,116
Speaker 1: and stuff like this, where I felt the guitar playing

1353
01:15:49,196 --> 01:15:51,916
Speaker 1: is really television where the guitar playing is really powerful,

1354
01:15:52,116 --> 01:15:56,236
Speaker 1: but it's not particularly muscular. And I felt that I'd

1355
01:15:56,276 --> 01:15:58,876
Speaker 1: hit on something as far as a new way of

1356
01:15:58,956 --> 01:16:02,356
Speaker 1: rounding out the band's chemistry. You know, in that album

1357
01:16:02,356 --> 01:16:05,156
Speaker 1: you also started singing harmony in a big way. That

1358
01:16:05,156 --> 01:16:07,556
Speaker 1: that's where it really harmony came into the picture on

1359
01:16:07,636 --> 01:16:10,676
Speaker 1: that album as well. Exactly. Yeah, and that was one

1360
01:16:10,756 --> 01:16:16,036
Speaker 1: hundred percent you like, like because I definitely was not

1361
01:16:16,236 --> 01:16:20,956
Speaker 1: open to the idea initially, like like you really had

1362
01:16:20,956 --> 01:16:23,436
Speaker 1: to talk me into it. I can remember we were

1363
01:16:23,516 --> 01:16:26,356
Speaker 1: at the village and we were listening. I was playing

1364
01:16:26,436 --> 01:16:29,116
Speaker 1: use of Simon and Garfunkel stuff just chill, like, look

1365
01:16:29,116 --> 01:16:31,276
Speaker 1: how cool it is when the harmony crosses over. It's

1366
01:16:31,316 --> 01:16:35,156
Speaker 1: like it does some whole other there's some whole other

1367
01:16:35,236 --> 01:16:38,556
Speaker 1: level of sophistication to the music when you have this

1368
01:16:38,636 --> 01:16:41,196
Speaker 1: other harmonic thing going on that we didn't have at

1369
01:16:41,196 --> 01:16:43,316
Speaker 1: that time. It's like maybe there's a place for it,

1370
01:16:43,556 --> 01:16:45,516
Speaker 1: and it could have not worked, but it works. You know,

1371
01:16:45,516 --> 01:16:47,956
Speaker 1: it could have who knows. We remember there were also

1372
01:16:48,036 --> 01:16:50,516
Speaker 1: many experiments we tried it would failed, you know, it's

1373
01:16:50,556 --> 01:16:53,636
Speaker 1: like you never know. But that was one time where like, yeah,

1374
01:16:53,636 --> 01:16:55,116
Speaker 1: there was a day when I listened to it and

1375
01:16:55,156 --> 01:16:58,476
Speaker 1: I came back and feeling like, you know, harmonies are lame,

1376
01:16:58,756 --> 01:17:02,876
Speaker 1: you know, like like and and but I continued listening

1377
01:17:02,916 --> 01:17:04,876
Speaker 1: to music at home every night when I went home,

1378
01:17:05,316 --> 01:17:07,836
Speaker 1: and then I started realizing that there were harmonies and

1379
01:17:07,956 --> 01:17:09,956
Speaker 1: all kinds of music that I love that I hadn't

1380
01:17:09,956 --> 01:17:12,596
Speaker 1: even noticed. You would think I'm a singer. I'm a musician,

1381
01:17:12,636 --> 01:17:16,996
Speaker 1: like I would have noticed, But somehow we hear it

1382
01:17:17,036 --> 01:17:20,076
Speaker 1: as if it's in the lead vocal, and we don't.

1383
01:17:20,116 --> 01:17:23,156
Speaker 1: Our ear doesn't consciously it's a backing vocal, so it's

1384
01:17:23,236 --> 01:17:26,036
Speaker 1: doing its job. It's it's not the vocal of attention,

1385
01:17:26,596 --> 01:17:28,956
Speaker 1: and your attention just stays with the lead vocal and

1386
01:17:28,996 --> 01:17:32,116
Speaker 1: you don't realize that there's this harmony part that's really

1387
01:17:32,116 --> 01:17:34,356
Speaker 1: giving it depth. And the more music I listened to

1388
01:17:34,636 --> 01:17:37,316
Speaker 1: where I was listening for that because you'd been pushing

1389
01:17:37,356 --> 01:17:40,436
Speaker 1: me to do it, I started realizing, geez, all my

1390
01:17:40,516 --> 01:17:43,556
Speaker 1: favorite records have these great harmonies on them, you know.

1391
01:17:43,956 --> 01:17:47,276
Speaker 1: So I started getting excited about it and at least

1392
01:17:47,396 --> 01:17:51,476
Speaker 1: enough to try it. And I don't think it was

1393
01:17:51,596 --> 01:17:54,956
Speaker 1: till the record was done and Gee Pechoto from Fugazi

1394
01:17:55,476 --> 01:17:59,116
Speaker 1: told me that specifically he loved the harmonies on the record.

1395
01:17:59,956 --> 01:18:02,596
Speaker 1: That was when I realized, like, oh wow, okay, cool,

1396
01:18:03,036 --> 01:18:06,596
Speaker 1: keeping good. Then, you know, it seemed just passable when

1397
01:18:06,596 --> 01:18:08,796
Speaker 1: I was doing it. It didn't. I wasn't. I wasn't

1398
01:18:08,796 --> 01:18:11,876
Speaker 1: a dred percent convinced. You know, it was really good.

1399
01:18:12,076 --> 01:18:15,396
Speaker 1: I remember it was regally and it just felt like again,

1400
01:18:15,436 --> 01:18:18,076
Speaker 1: like another door was open, you know, just of what

1401
01:18:18,676 --> 01:18:22,076
Speaker 1: another thing that could possibly happen. Yeah, it's true. I

1402
01:18:22,076 --> 01:18:26,076
Speaker 1: can't imagine all our records since then. You haven't done that. Yeah,

1403
01:18:26,916 --> 01:18:30,276
Speaker 1: I feel like maybe we should stop now and then

1404
01:18:30,316 --> 01:18:32,156
Speaker 1: we're going to do this again, because I feel like

1405
01:18:32,516 --> 01:18:34,116
Speaker 1: it's going to take us a couple of hours to

1406
01:18:34,156 --> 01:18:37,356
Speaker 1: talk about each album. I think based on how long

1407
01:18:37,396 --> 01:18:41,476
Speaker 1: we've been going, right, Okay, you mean like sometime soon,

1408
01:18:41,596 --> 01:18:43,796
Speaker 1: you mean like a year from now, whatever, whatever you want,

1409
01:18:43,796 --> 01:18:46,036
Speaker 1: we'll do. We'll do a part three whenever you want.

1410
01:18:46,276 --> 01:18:48,836
Speaker 1: But I feel like there's enough for us to talk

1411
01:18:48,876 --> 01:18:51,356
Speaker 1: about where to go in depth where we need. We

1412
01:18:51,516 --> 01:18:54,956
Speaker 1: just need a lot of time. Okay, great, but this

1413
01:18:55,036 --> 01:18:58,476
Speaker 1: was a great like it's a great next chapter from

1414
01:18:58,476 --> 01:19:01,556
Speaker 1: where we were, right, Okay, so let's let's plan on

1415
01:19:01,636 --> 01:19:05,396
Speaker 1: doing that. Okay, cool? Cool, it sounds good. I love

1416
01:19:05,436 --> 01:19:07,476
Speaker 1: talking to you, and I love I feel like again

1417
01:19:07,516 --> 01:19:09,076
Speaker 1: I know you forever, and I feel like I learned.

1418
01:19:09,236 --> 01:19:15,636
Speaker 1: Every time we talk about stuff blows my mind. Thanks Man,

1419
01:19:15,676 --> 01:19:17,756
Speaker 1: and you know you're the best person to do an

1420
01:19:17,796 --> 01:19:21,076
Speaker 1: interview with. It's really pleasant talking to you, cool Man.

1421
01:19:23,876 --> 01:19:25,756
Speaker 1: Thanks for John from Shante. Be sure to keep an

1422
01:19:25,756 --> 01:19:28,076
Speaker 1: eye out for the second half of this conversation with

1423
01:19:28,156 --> 01:19:31,076
Speaker 1: Rick Rubin coming soon. You can hear all of our

1424
01:19:31,116 --> 01:19:33,556
Speaker 1: favorite red Hot Chili Pepper songs on a playlist at

1425
01:19:33,556 --> 01:19:36,996
Speaker 1: broken record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to

1426
01:19:37,036 --> 01:19:40,836
Speaker 1: our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast,

1427
01:19:40,956 --> 01:19:43,916
Speaker 1: where you can find all of our new episodes. You

1428
01:19:43,956 --> 01:19:46,996
Speaker 1: can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record

1429
01:19:47,076 --> 01:19:51,196
Speaker 1: is produced Helpful Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Bentaladay, Eric Sandler,

1430
01:19:51,316 --> 01:19:54,956
Speaker 1: and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from Nick Chaffey. Our

1431
01:19:55,036 --> 01:19:59,156
Speaker 1: executive producer is Mia LaBelle. Broken Record is a production

1432
01:19:59,196 --> 01:20:01,916
Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. If you like this show and others

1433
01:20:01,916 --> 01:20:05,956
Speaker 1: from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is

1434
01:20:05,956 --> 01:20:09,556
Speaker 1: a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and un disrupted

1435
01:20:09,596 --> 01:20:12,796
Speaker 1: ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look

1436
01:20:12,836 --> 01:20:16,396
Speaker 1: for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and if you

1437
01:20:16,476 --> 01:20:18,956
Speaker 1: like the show, please remember to share, rate, and review,

1438
01:20:19,036 --> 01:20:21,956
Speaker 1: us on your podcast app Our theme is Expect Candy Beats.

1439
01:20:22,236 --> 01:20:23,236
Speaker 1: I'm Justin Richmond,