WEBVTT - Jasper Park Rises from the Ashes

0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.520
<v Speaker 1>The golf course at Fairmont Jasper Park Lodge in Alberta,

0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Canada is among the most stunning golf courses in the world. Certainly,

0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:11.960
<v Speaker 1>it's one of the key designs of the great Canadian

0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:15.600
<v Speaker 1>architect Stanley Thompson. So I was really sad to hear

0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:19.440
<v Speaker 1>last year that the lodge, the golf course, and the

0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:24.640
<v Speaker 1>town that's nearby were badly damaged by a wildfire. So

0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.320
<v Speaker 1>I've been eager for a while to get an update

0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:31.400
<v Speaker 1>on how Jasper Park is doing, and that's what's happening

0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:34.960
<v Speaker 1>in today's episode. I'm talking with Ian Andrew, who is

0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:38.920
<v Speaker 1>an accomplished golf architect as well as the world's leading

0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:43.640
<v Speaker 1>authority on Stanley Thompson. Very likely, Ian is currently working

0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.519
<v Speaker 1>with Jasper Park to bring the golf course back to

0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:49.960
<v Speaker 1>its full strength, so I'm excited to talk with him

0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:54.440
<v Speaker 1>about that process as well as get into the history

0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:59.560
<v Speaker 1>and architecture of Jasper Park. I'm Garrett Morrison and this

0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:08.440
<v Speaker 1>is Design Golf. Hey, so one quick note before we

0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:12.360
<v Speaker 1>get started here. When I started the conversation with Ian,

0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:16.520
<v Speaker 1>his mike was sort of rubbing against the collar of

0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.280
<v Speaker 1>his sweatshirt, and so that's what you'll hear in the

0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.880
<v Speaker 1>first few minutes of this podcast a little bit of

0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.800
<v Speaker 1>wrestling that does not continue throughout the interview. We sorted

0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:29.080
<v Speaker 1>out the problem, just wanted to let you know about that.

0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:33.959
<v Speaker 1>So for those who are not familiar with Jasper Park,

0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:38.399
<v Speaker 1>maybe non Canadians out there, where is this course and

0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.440
<v Speaker 1>what is some of the basic top line information we

0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:42.200
<v Speaker 1>should know about it.

0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:48.800
<v Speaker 2>So Jasper Park is in Jasper National Park and it's

0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:50.520
<v Speaker 2>west of Edmonton by four hours.

0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:52.600
<v Speaker 3>It's north of Beef Springs.

0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:57.640
<v Speaker 2>By probably the greatest four hour drive in Canada. If

0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:01.360
<v Speaker 2>you're going to see one or the other both ideally both.

0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.000
<v Speaker 2>It is the single best drive you'll ever find. It's

0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.200
<v Speaker 2>through the rocky mountains and it's glaciers all the way,

0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:13.000
<v Speaker 2>so it's quite spectacular. It was a course built in

0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.720
<v Speaker 2>a national park. So one of the interesting things is

0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:19.680
<v Speaker 2>two of our greatest golf courses were built by railroads

0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:24.480
<v Speaker 2>as destinations. And so what you've got is you've got

0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:28.200
<v Speaker 2>with CP, you've got bamp Springs and with CN you've

0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:32.480
<v Speaker 2>got Jasper National Park. So they took over a project

0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:36.640
<v Speaker 2>that was kind of middling along, and then.

0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:38.960
<v Speaker 3>What happened was.

0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:41.280
<v Speaker 2>They end up sort of revisiting it a couple of times,

0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:43.880
<v Speaker 2>and then finally with Stanley Thompson, they built the eighteen

0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:44.880
<v Speaker 2>holes that we know today.

0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:49.000
<v Speaker 1>So there's a small town called Jasper near the lodge. Right,

0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:51.320
<v Speaker 1>you have the Jasper Park Lodge, you have the Jasper

0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.119
<v Speaker 1>Park golf course, and then the town of Jasper. What's

0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:54.480
<v Speaker 1>that like.

0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:55.760
<v Speaker 3>Jasper is a small town.

0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:58.520
<v Speaker 2>I actually can't tell you the population, but if I

0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.200
<v Speaker 2>was going to give it a guess, maybe something as

0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:05.440
<v Speaker 2>much as sort of three thousand to four thousand people,

0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:07.880
<v Speaker 2>might be as much as five Actually, now I think

0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:10.960
<v Speaker 2>about it, and it's really the support system not only

0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:15.000
<v Speaker 2>for Jasper Park Lodge, which is not in town, it's

0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:18.440
<v Speaker 2>just outside of town, but it's also a support system

0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:22.240
<v Speaker 2>as well for Jasper National Park. So a lot of

0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.480
<v Speaker 2>people live there and then usually end up working with either.

0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.200
<v Speaker 2>There's a series of resorts and hotels and restaurants in town.

0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.240
<v Speaker 2>Fabulous town. I'd highly recommend it as a destination. And

0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:36.600
<v Speaker 2>then a lot of people also work with the Jasper

0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:37.360
<v Speaker 2>Park Lodge.

0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:42.440
<v Speaker 1>So, before we get deeper into the courses architecture in

0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:47.920
<v Speaker 1>the history, what happened in Jasper and Jasper National Park

0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:48.839
<v Speaker 1>last year?

0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:53.360
<v Speaker 2>So last year, there was a wildfire, and the wildfire

0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:58.119
<v Speaker 2>started up I think near Athabasca Falls, if I'm not mistaken,

0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.280
<v Speaker 2>and it was a lightning strike. And one of the

0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.880
<v Speaker 2>things that's taken place a lot out west is pine

0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:10.480
<v Speaker 2>beetle has decimated the forests, and so I would say

0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:16.679
<v Speaker 2>a third or more of the forest was actually dead.

0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:23.240
<v Speaker 2>So if you can imagine pine beetle decimated the area,

0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:26.280
<v Speaker 2>then you've got all that canopy that's.

0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:33.160
<v Speaker 3>In the park that's dried out. And so what.

0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Happened when during a very dry period they had lightning

0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.720
<v Speaker 2>strike that set the area of blaze.

0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.360
<v Speaker 3>The area started to burn.

0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:45.640
<v Speaker 2>Very quickly, and unfortunately for them when this took place,

0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.440
<v Speaker 2>it was I think thirty forty one hour winds. The

0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.159
<v Speaker 2>winds actually got stronger over time, is the wildflower of

0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.240
<v Speaker 2>fire began to burn.

0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:55.279
<v Speaker 3>Its way towards Jasper.

0:04:55.320 --> 0:05:01.880
<v Speaker 2>So essentially it started up the Athabasca River valley and

0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:07.159
<v Speaker 2>sort of pushed its way towards Jasper town site. I

0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:09.520
<v Speaker 2>think what caught us all a little off guard was

0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.400
<v Speaker 2>it ended up burning. If I'll apologize if I got

0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:18.760
<v Speaker 2>this wrong, but I think it's about forty thousand square miles.

0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.080
<v Speaker 2>But as it pushed its way up the valley. Everybody

0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.039
<v Speaker 2>just kind of assumed at some point they would gain

0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:28.040
<v Speaker 2>control over it, and it just got worse and worse

0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:31.120
<v Speaker 2>because the winds were so high, and then it ended

0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:35.400
<v Speaker 2>up burning its way to the golf course. Fortunately for

0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.040
<v Speaker 2>the golf course, it ended up actually protecting the resort,

0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:40.680
<v Speaker 2>and they kind of made us stand.

0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:41.760
<v Speaker 3>At the resort because it's.

0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Very historically important resort, and they made us stand at

0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:53.760
<v Speaker 2>the town site. But about thirty five to town Goup.

0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:55.680
<v Speaker 3>Burnt.

0:05:56.040 --> 0:06:01.359
<v Speaker 2>So Jasperin is in recovery mode. A good example is

0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:05.719
<v Speaker 2>the superintendent lost his house, the director of golf didn't.

0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.080
<v Speaker 2>And that's one of the things about this event is

0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:16.760
<v Speaker 2>one family survived it, nobody's unscathed. That's sort of the

0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.640
<v Speaker 2>point I was going to make with this is you've

0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:24.400
<v Speaker 2>got families who have managed to still have their houses

0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:26.719
<v Speaker 2>standing just because of where they happen to be in town.

0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.359
<v Speaker 2>And then you've got people they work with, their friends

0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.400
<v Speaker 2>or family who have lost their house or their residents,

0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:37.480
<v Speaker 2>or their or their business. And so everybody who has

0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.840
<v Speaker 2>any connection to jasper is just sort of devastated, because

0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:43.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, everybody I know.

0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:46.760
<v Speaker 3>It's sort of a fifty to fifty. It's just a.

0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:50.479
<v Speaker 2>Flip them on whether things worked out or didn't. But

0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.320
<v Speaker 2>it didn't matter. Everybody's still heartbroken. I think some people

0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.840
<v Speaker 2>are more heartbroken who've actually not lost anything, because they

0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.520
<v Speaker 2>feel it's sort of the survivor's guilt.

0:06:59.240 --> 0:06:59.800
<v Speaker 3>That comes with that.

0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.200
<v Speaker 2>So with the golf course, the golf course got burnt

0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:06.200
<v Speaker 2>in the process. The one thing that happened was where

0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:08.599
<v Speaker 2>you've got all that timber, it was burning so hot.

0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:11.960
<v Speaker 2>And I'm going to sort of jump ahead a little bit,

0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:15.440
<v Speaker 2>but it burnt so hot that you actually, rather than

0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.160
<v Speaker 2>burning the pine cones and opening them up for regeneration,

0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:24.320
<v Speaker 2>it's actually burnt so hot that it's actually decimated the

0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.240
<v Speaker 2>pine cones too, so there's nothing to regenerate. So there's

0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:29.120
<v Speaker 2>a place a much further up where you can go

0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.880
<v Speaker 2>where you can see regeneration, and beside it you can

0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:34.840
<v Speaker 2>see areas of no regeneration. What that is is if

0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:38.400
<v Speaker 2>fires get too hot, there's no regeneration anymore. We've actually

0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.480
<v Speaker 2>got that on the golf course. We've got both further

0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:44.720
<v Speaker 2>from the golf course where it burnt around on the mountain,

0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.840
<v Speaker 2>there's one of my favorite places for hiking short hike

0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:51.920
<v Speaker 2>is Malin Canyon.

0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:52.840
<v Speaker 3>Malign Canyon.

0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:56.160
<v Speaker 2>Everything is burnt, everything is blown over, there's not a

0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:59.920
<v Speaker 2>tree standing, and it will not regenerate because there's nothing left.

0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.880
<v Speaker 2>So it's actually soil and everything's washed into the canyon

0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:05.800
<v Speaker 2>where all the walkways and everything are.

0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:07.720
<v Speaker 3>So this is sort of what happened.

0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:12.600
<v Speaker 2>You've got spots where it's decimated the burn where you're

0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:15.400
<v Speaker 2>not going to even get regeneration. This was a learning

0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:17.040
<v Speaker 2>curve for me over the last little while.

0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:18.280
<v Speaker 3>And then you've got.

0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:21.480
<v Speaker 2>Other areas where the golf course, for example, it burnt

0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:23.400
<v Speaker 2>into the golf course but never got hot enough to

0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:26.520
<v Speaker 2>other than burning the trees down. It didn't get hot

0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.320
<v Speaker 2>enough to.

0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:31.080
<v Speaker 3>Decimate the cones. But the other thing is.

0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:37.720
<v Speaker 2>Also started to reduce the fire and so it wasn't

0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.640
<v Speaker 2>burning as hot, it wasn't traveling as easy. It actually

0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:42.800
<v Speaker 2>made it easy for them to make a stand. So

0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:46.360
<v Speaker 2>there are buildings burnt in Jasper Park Lodge, there's four

0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:48.760
<v Speaker 2>or five buildings burnt, but they were able to save

0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:50.440
<v Speaker 2>the lodge and they were able to save the majority

0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:53.960
<v Speaker 2>of it. So essentially, it's funny we think about golf

0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:59.000
<v Speaker 2>and get all golf centric, but the great thing is

0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:01.240
<v Speaker 2>a golf course. When it burns, it's not a big deal.

0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.880
<v Speaker 2>It's just the trace. The ground is still the ground,

0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:05.360
<v Speaker 2>The golf course is still the golf course, and you

0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:08.640
<v Speaker 2>can have turf up and going and everything up and

0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:10.320
<v Speaker 2>going very.

0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:11.440
<v Speaker 3>Quickly, which they did.

0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.360
<v Speaker 2>The only thing that's interesting was all the theater systems

0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:17.839
<v Speaker 2>at Jasper Park are all above ground, so that all

0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.800
<v Speaker 2>got burnt, so there's no supply lines anymore, and that's

0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.559
<v Speaker 2>sort of something they're working on now. So it's sort

0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.120
<v Speaker 2>of a long explanation, but that sort of gives you.

0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:29.959
<v Speaker 2>When I went there, I went there three weeks after

0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.800
<v Speaker 2>the fire and the heart The hardest part for me

0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:37.280
<v Speaker 2>was I couldn't like I was seeing burnt coming on

0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:39.400
<v Speaker 2>the way in, and I had a very specific way.

0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.520
<v Speaker 2>I was given a one day pass by Parks Canada

0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:46.960
<v Speaker 2>to go and review it with Fairmont, and I couldn't

0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.760
<v Speaker 2>bring myself to go anywhere near the town site because

0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:51.600
<v Speaker 2>I knew what had happened over.

0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:52.280
<v Speaker 3>On the town site.

0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.480
<v Speaker 2>And even when I stayed there in the spring, it's

0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:56.600
<v Speaker 2>devastating to be there.

0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:58.400
<v Speaker 3>You just feel you feel bad for the people.

0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:03.280
<v Speaker 2>And my wife and I have been to Jasper six

0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:07.160
<v Speaker 2>or seven times, and we hike there outside of playing

0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:11.559
<v Speaker 2>golf as well, and it's just hard to not go

0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:14.320
<v Speaker 2>there and feel for the people. So we go there.

0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:16.360
<v Speaker 2>I've been there in the spring, and we'll go there

0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.160
<v Speaker 2>again just to try and support the town.

0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.320
<v Speaker 1>Let's go from there. What's going on at Jasper Park

0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:26.920
<v Speaker 1>right now? And rewind a little bit, go back in history.

0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:31.840
<v Speaker 1>How did the development of the Jasper Park Lodge and

0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.199
<v Speaker 1>golf course initially come about?

0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:38.440
<v Speaker 2>So the railroads were looking for destinations and they built

0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.760
<v Speaker 2>places for people to like. They wanted to build some

0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.280
<v Speaker 2>places for people to go to. So that's how you

0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.680
<v Speaker 2>got Bamp Springs, That's how you got Jasper Park Lodge.

0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.079
<v Speaker 3>So Bam Springs is Canadian.

0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:57.720
<v Speaker 2>Pacific Railway, Jasper Park Lodge is a Canadian National Railway.

0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Two very competitive railways, and that actually plays out in

0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:02.600
<v Speaker 2>the long run even.

0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:03.360
<v Speaker 3>With the golf courses.

0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.840
<v Speaker 2>So they had built the lodge first, but you're trying

0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.480
<v Speaker 2>to give people a reasona co mode there. So with

0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:15.240
<v Speaker 2>Jasper Park Lodge, you've got voting, with Lake Bovert, you've

0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:17.920
<v Speaker 2>got hiking that you can do. But adding a golf

0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.840
<v Speaker 2>course to that created a destination.

0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:22.520
<v Speaker 3>So they hired.

0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.760
<v Speaker 2>Stanley Thompson and he built them essentially a destination golf course.

0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:29.440
<v Speaker 1>And what is Stanley Thompson's stature in the history of

0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:33.040
<v Speaker 1>golf architecture, Just so people who maybe haven't experiences courses

0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:34.800
<v Speaker 1>have an idea of who he is.

0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:37.320
<v Speaker 2>If you're asking me to give you a list of

0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:42.600
<v Speaker 2>sort of the fundamental seven to ten golf course architects

0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:47.720
<v Speaker 2>that shape golf course architectural history, ignoring the immediate times,

0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I would put Stanley Thompson on that list. Very Canadian

0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:57.199
<v Speaker 2>centric career, great architect. Anybody who's gone out to see

0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.920
<v Speaker 2>any of one of I've always referred to them as

0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Big five Cape Breton Highlands now known to Highland Links,

0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:10.280
<v Speaker 2>Saint George's in Toronto Private Club, Jasper Banff, and then Capilano.

0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.040
<v Speaker 2>If you've seen those five golf courses, you'll know why

0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:17.960
<v Speaker 2>he's revered by all architects current past. His peers in

0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.719
<v Speaker 2>particular as well, all held him in high regard. He

0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.840
<v Speaker 2>was just sort of the greatest architect in Canada has

0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.600
<v Speaker 2>ever had, and it's going to take a lot for

0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:31.200
<v Speaker 2>somebody else to knock him off that pedestal. He's the

0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:36.240
<v Speaker 2>prime influence for anybody. He's a Canadian architect. Scale, it

0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.880
<v Speaker 2>was just a master with scale. But one of his

0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:45.960
<v Speaker 2>great secrets was extremely well read man and understood the

0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.720
<v Speaker 2>whole concept of borrowed scenery. So I think that was

0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:52.680
<v Speaker 2>capability Brown if I remember correctly, and he had taken

0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.800
<v Speaker 2>that essentially and probably applied that better than any other

0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.200
<v Speaker 2>architect in history, and I do include every architect and current.

0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:03.760
<v Speaker 2>I think he was the master of all masters when

0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:05.280
<v Speaker 2>it came to borrowed scenery.

0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.120
<v Speaker 1>Well, I'd like to eventually get into how he used

0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.880
<v Speaker 1>that concept at Jasper Park. But first of all, what

0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:15.440
<v Speaker 1>are some of the specifics of the property at Jasper Park?

0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.640
<v Speaker 1>And then how did Thompson route the golf course through it?

0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:26.160
<v Speaker 2>So it's a surprisingly rolling piece of land. So what

0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:30.120
<v Speaker 2>he did was he essentially on the front nine worked

0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:35.080
<v Speaker 2>his way very quickly out to a valley. And so

0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:39.520
<v Speaker 2>that valley kind of is a prominent spot you keep

0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:43.120
<v Speaker 2>coming back to. So you get there for three, four,

0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.240
<v Speaker 2>you play out of it in five, but you play

0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of back into it on six. There's a step

0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.520
<v Speaker 2>in the land that he goes and uses for seven, eight,

0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.160
<v Speaker 2>nine up top, which is the famous shot for Cleopatra

0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.960
<v Speaker 2>coming back to the valley, but ten is back in

0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.839
<v Speaker 2>the valley, eleven is playing out of the valley. And

0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:01.720
<v Speaker 2>then what he does he takes you to a spot

0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:05.520
<v Speaker 2>called Lake Bovart, and so thirteenth is a par five

0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:09.079
<v Speaker 2>that kind of tumbles down to it. Anybody who's seen

0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.600
<v Speaker 2>a picture of Jasper National Park or j Park golf

0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.120
<v Speaker 2>Course has seen the tea shot on fourteen, which is

0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:19.160
<v Speaker 2>over Lake Bovart, Bad Baby, the little par three plays

0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:21.440
<v Speaker 2>along it, and then sixteen again on the approach shot

0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.960
<v Speaker 2>plays over it. Now you on seventeen, it's on your

0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.160
<v Speaker 2>left the whole way, which you never knew it was

0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:29.480
<v Speaker 2>there because of all the pine trees, and it's actually

0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.880
<v Speaker 2>on the left of eighteen across the road where but

0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.680
<v Speaker 2>essentially he worked around those features.

0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:39.160
<v Speaker 3>So he's found the valleys and he's found.

0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Sort of steps in the land that he's used within

0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:44.680
<v Speaker 2>the routing. But there's a really tremendous amount of elevation

0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:48.000
<v Speaker 2>change on the golf course. The holes have got some

0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:51.440
<v Speaker 2>pretty regular drops, and then of course you get out

0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:57.800
<v Speaker 2>to Cleopatra and you've got that incredible te shot where

0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:00.440
<v Speaker 2>from the tee to the back of the and when

0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.200
<v Speaker 2>I say the back of the green, the fall off

0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:03.480
<v Speaker 2>of the back of the green, it's got to be

0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:05.280
<v Speaker 2>about seventy feet the fall.

0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:06.520
<v Speaker 3>Off of the back of the green. I thinks eighteen

0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:07.160
<v Speaker 3>feet alone.

0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.520
<v Speaker 1>So and when you say Cleopatra, that's the name of

0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.000
<v Speaker 1>one of the holes, right, yes, it is. I'm curious

0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.600
<v Speaker 1>right away as to where the name Cleopatra for this

0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:17.360
<v Speaker 1>hole came from.

0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.920
<v Speaker 2>So this has been a fascinating revelation for me because

0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:26.640
<v Speaker 2>it's there's nothing worse than working hard with researching history

0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.160
<v Speaker 2>and then disproving something and then running into something that

0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:35.360
<v Speaker 2>appears to reprove something. So with Cleopatra, when he built

0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:36.880
<v Speaker 2>the hole, originally.

0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.000
<v Speaker 3>The description was it was.

0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:46.240
<v Speaker 2>Like a naked woman reclining on the ground, and I

0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.640
<v Speaker 2>always thought that that was I don't know if I

0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.400
<v Speaker 2>can swear or not, but BS. Anyway, let's call it BS.

0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:57.040
<v Speaker 2>So there's definitely a right side mound, left side mound.

0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:58.640
<v Speaker 3>You've definitely got an advantage.

0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.040
<v Speaker 2>There's a ground option to play on this long part

0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:05.840
<v Speaker 2>of three between the two hillocks, and it is the

0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.480
<v Speaker 2>ideal way to play. Your perfect way to play the

0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:10.920
<v Speaker 2>whole is actually it's over two hundred yard hole, but

0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:14.440
<v Speaker 2>your perfect shot is about one seventy five and let

0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.720
<v Speaker 2>it feed and it's it's foolproof if you find the slot.

0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:21.720
<v Speaker 3>So it's I always kind of looked.

0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.960
<v Speaker 2>At that and kind of went, yeah, okay, sure, maybe

0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:27.120
<v Speaker 2>it was named after the fact that it just happened

0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.840
<v Speaker 2>to look that way. But I got an image sent

0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:33.480
<v Speaker 2>to me by Perry Cooper, who is a former superintendent,

0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:35.920
<v Speaker 2>and it's got a pond in front of the hole.

0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:37.920
<v Speaker 2>And if you've ever seen the hole, there's no way

0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:43.600
<v Speaker 2>your brain can get anything to tell you that there

0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.440
<v Speaker 2>was any way there was any sort of pond in front.

0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:51.440
<v Speaker 2>It's triangular shaped, it's very small and very deep, and

0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:57.760
<v Speaker 2>it would be incredibly well placed. So god, yeah, I know,

0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.160
<v Speaker 2>and I didn't know. I honestly didn't know what to

0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.440
<v Speaker 2>do with this when. But the part I couldn't understand

0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:05.640
<v Speaker 2>was when it was. And then finally I was able

0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.640
<v Speaker 2>to sort of figure out it was early on Hull

0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:13.560
<v Speaker 2>was renovated. We'll touch on that that Thompson built Jasper

0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:21.360
<v Speaker 2>Park and then built bamp The people involved with Jasper

0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:24.960
<v Speaker 2>could clearly tell that BAMF was a better golf course,

0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:26.600
<v Speaker 2>and what it was was he had learned a lot

0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:30.400
<v Speaker 2>of lessons while he'd gone out on this grand scale

0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:32.000
<v Speaker 2>trying to fit the site.

0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:33.720
<v Speaker 3>Larger greens, larger fairways.

0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:37.200
<v Speaker 2>Clearing was over one and a half times normal, close

0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.320
<v Speaker 2>to almost one point eight the width of everything he'd

0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:42.560
<v Speaker 2>done before that scale was great.

0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:43.600
<v Speaker 3>Other than the fact.

0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:45.879
<v Speaker 2>That when you look at those photos from I've got

0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:46.919
<v Speaker 2>all the opening day photos.

0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.360
<v Speaker 3>When you look at those photos, the.

0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.000
<v Speaker 2>One thing is people look incredibly small. They're kind of

0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.479
<v Speaker 2>dwarfed by the setting. He cleared it all out to

0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.080
<v Speaker 2>make use of what you see in the mountains. But

0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.399
<v Speaker 2>what happened was there's human scale to the golf course.

0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:07.199
<v Speaker 2>He goes to do bamf right afterwards, he clears the

0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:12.000
<v Speaker 2>same ws but not quite as wide. But what he

0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 2>does is he takes his greens back down to more

0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.000
<v Speaker 2>of a let's say, sort of the six to eight

0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.600
<v Speaker 2>range instead of sort of the eight to ten range.

0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:23.240
<v Speaker 2>Takes his greens down. What he does is he breaks

0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:25.760
<v Speaker 2>up all his bunkers. When he's got larger bunkers, he

0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:29.800
<v Speaker 2>does very elaborate forms with the bunkers rather than these big, large,

0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.640
<v Speaker 2>simple forms on a massive scale. And what he does

0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.679
<v Speaker 2>is he breaks up the bunkers either by numbers or

0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.760
<v Speaker 2>by details to put human scale back in the golf course.

0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:43.480
<v Speaker 2>And what happens with the golf course is because it's

0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:47.960
<v Speaker 2>in human scale, it just absolutely works.

0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.639
<v Speaker 3>It is a.

0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.919
<v Speaker 2>Masterclass in how to deal with a grand scale with

0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.400
<v Speaker 2>enough details not to lose the person within the scale.

0:18:56.400 --> 0:19:01.480
<v Speaker 2>That everything feels within a scale we can understand. And immediately,

0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:05.040
<v Speaker 2>of course, what happens with cn is they look at

0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.000
<v Speaker 2>that and they go that golf course is way more

0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.320
<v Speaker 2>interesting than ours, even though we've got a better property.

0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:11.960
<v Speaker 2>Jasper Park is a better property in than BAMP. It's

0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:17.360
<v Speaker 2>not even a question. And what they did was come

0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:19.960
<v Speaker 2>back and he did a bunker renovation. And the bunker

0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:23.720
<v Speaker 2>renovation was to put bays and fingers and noses, even

0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:27.120
<v Speaker 2>the occasional island, and to put details in. So it's

0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.560
<v Speaker 2>still got the grand scale, but it's got more human details.

0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:34.240
<v Speaker 2>And what it did was it collapse the scale to

0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:38.560
<v Speaker 2>a point that people felt more comfortable within it. And

0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.520
<v Speaker 2>what it did was the clearing still works. And the

0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.200
<v Speaker 2>views are better than BAMP. It's actually got better views

0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.560
<v Speaker 2>than BAMF when it comes to the mountains. And the

0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.440
<v Speaker 2>golf course is rooted around the idea of every whole

0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.120
<v Speaker 2>points to a different mountain range, and even the whole

0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.800
<v Speaker 2>names identified that that's what he's doing with the routing.

0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:59.280
<v Speaker 2>But what it does is there's enough reduction in the

0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:03.000
<v Speaker 2>scale to me it could feel comfortable as a player,

0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.880
<v Speaker 2>and it brings you back to the space comfortably. And

0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.760
<v Speaker 2>it's a double masterclass and sort of one is just showing,

0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:13.480
<v Speaker 2>holy crap, I just figured this out, and the other

0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:15.960
<v Speaker 2>one is I can do all these things, and I

0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:20.200
<v Speaker 2>can make something that wasn't working to scale come to scale.

0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:25.800
<v Speaker 1>That's a really interesting application of the idea of scale

0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:30.760
<v Speaker 1>in golf course construction, because how I'm processing this idea

0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:37.200
<v Speaker 1>is that in Jasper Park and Banff Springs, Thompson had

0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:43.800
<v Speaker 1>properties with a lot of natural massive scale, not only

0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:47.399
<v Speaker 1>in the interior of the property, especially at Jasper, but

0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:52.080
<v Speaker 1>also in the views around the property, the big mountains

0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:57.560
<v Speaker 1>that you could see that scale of those properties and

0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:03.200
<v Speaker 1>their surroundings overwhelmed humans, right, yes, And so I guess

0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.879
<v Speaker 1>part of what these golf course features could do. The

0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:09.840
<v Speaker 1>features that Thompson apparently learned how to build at BAMF

0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:13.160
<v Speaker 1>kind of with more detail and more of the human

0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:16.360
<v Speaker 1>scale to them, is that they kind of serve as

0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:21.879
<v Speaker 1>an intermediary between the massive scale of the property and

0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:25.560
<v Speaker 1>its surroundings and the humans playing the golf course, so

0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:29.239
<v Speaker 1>that the humans feel like they can relate to this

0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:34.160
<v Speaker 1>property right. They kind of serve as a way to

0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:38.000
<v Speaker 1>let golfers into the property and not make them feel

0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:41.360
<v Speaker 1>like they're just being overwhelmed by all this massiveness.

0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:45.880
<v Speaker 2>I remember, I think it was Jeff Cornish or either

0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:50.359
<v Speaker 2>that or I found a quote that the talked about

0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:56.119
<v Speaker 2>Stanley Thompson wanting people at VAMP to pay attention to

0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.040
<v Speaker 2>the golf course, to not just look at the mountains.

0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:04.320
<v Speaker 2>You know, whether that's ego driven or just driven by

0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:08.080
<v Speaker 2>common sense, but the idea is he had to do enough.

0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:09.240
<v Speaker 3>He had to put enough bunker.

0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:12.800
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot more bunkering at Bamp Springs, and there's,

0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:16.680
<v Speaker 2>as I said, a lot more detailing. There's also much

0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:21.159
<v Speaker 2>stronger carry angles in some cases, sort of like Monterey

0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Peninsula Short Course, where Mike Strands is given an enormous scale,

0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:29.680
<v Speaker 2>and the sort of the genius in what Mike did

0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:34.199
<v Speaker 2>there was he swung the fairways so wide that it

0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:39.000
<v Speaker 2>filled the space so it didn't get out of context,

0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:41.400
<v Speaker 2>and then went with bunkering big enough.

0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:42.080
<v Speaker 3>Well.

0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Stanley did this back in twenty seven to twenty eight.

0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:50.560
<v Speaker 2>He created wide swings with the fairways, but he filled

0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:54.480
<v Speaker 2>it with bunkering. At bamp he did do some swings

0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:58.160
<v Speaker 2>with the fairways, but not as wild, and he kept

0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:01.920
<v Speaker 2>the bunkering more so to the side at Jasper, and

0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:04.360
<v Speaker 2>one of the lessons from it was to go more

0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:07.480
<v Speaker 2>aggressive with the swings when he went in to bamf.

0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:10.120
<v Speaker 2>What was interesting was when he made he did make

0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:13.040
<v Speaker 2>some changes to Jasper how it was bunkered, and he

0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:13.879
<v Speaker 2>came back.

0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:15.160
<v Speaker 3>As well after the war.

0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:18.199
<v Speaker 2>And that's the fascinating part for me was this is

0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:21.960
<v Speaker 2>recent knowledge for me, but the whole back of the

0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:25.800
<v Speaker 2>eleventh Green, which is really wild with its elaborate mounding

0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:27.480
<v Speaker 2>and the back of five, has actually.

0:23:27.160 --> 0:23:28.480
<v Speaker 3>Done post World War two.

0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:32.400
<v Speaker 2>He continued to make changes and add more bunkering to

0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:35.280
<v Speaker 2>it to try and get things moving framing.

0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:37.920
<v Speaker 3>So he actually did.

0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:41.240
<v Speaker 2>He did quite a bit of work to Jasper after

0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:44.840
<v Speaker 2>the fact as well, just adding more to bring your

0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:49.320
<v Speaker 2>eye to the fairways, to the greens to golf. So

0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:52.680
<v Speaker 2>I didn't realize that he continued on post World War

0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:59.520
<v Speaker 2>two in making some adjustments. So I knew stuff happened,

0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:03.000
<v Speaker 2>I just didn't know the dates till talent and found

0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:05.720
<v Speaker 2>a report and I got a chance to read that report,

0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:07.000
<v Speaker 2>and it was full of new news for me.

0:24:14.000 --> 0:24:16.400
<v Speaker 1>This episode of Designing Golf is brought to you by

0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:21.119
<v Speaker 1>the USGA Green Section. Success on the course starts with

0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:25.560
<v Speaker 1>the right information. The USGA Green Section Record keeps you

0:24:25.600 --> 0:24:30.800
<v Speaker 1>connected with the latest turf research, management strategies, and regional updates,

0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:33.959
<v Speaker 1>all for free. Now I'm a reader of the USGA

0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:37.560
<v Speaker 1>Green Section Record, I think it's a really excellent publication

0:24:38.160 --> 0:24:41.959
<v Speaker 1>and it lets me know what's going on in the

0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:45.080
<v Speaker 1>world of agronomy and the world of golf course management.

0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:51.040
<v Speaker 1>It's just an excellent regular update on that industry, which

0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:56.280
<v Speaker 1>I think overall is somewhat undercovered in media. So I

0:24:56.320 --> 0:25:00.560
<v Speaker 1>can personally recommend the USGA Green Section Record. And if

0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:04.120
<v Speaker 1>you pair that with the USGA Moisture Meter, for instance,

0:25:04.200 --> 0:25:08.720
<v Speaker 1>soil data that integrates seamlessly with the Deacon system, then

0:25:08.920 --> 0:25:12.240
<v Speaker 1>you're really cooking with gas. So from insights to action,

0:25:12.680 --> 0:25:16.639
<v Speaker 1>the USGA Green Section helps you manage smarter, Subscribe and

0:25:16.760 --> 0:25:21.600
<v Speaker 1>learn more at USGA dot org slash course Care. Again,

0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:25.560
<v Speaker 1>that's the USGA dot org slash course care all right,

0:25:25.600 --> 0:25:34.280
<v Speaker 1>let's get back to the episode. You've mentioned a couple

0:25:34.280 --> 0:25:36.720
<v Speaker 1>of times the concept of borrowed scenery.

0:25:37.240 --> 0:25:37.480
<v Speaker 3>M h.

0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:41.960
<v Speaker 1>How does that idea show up in the design of

0:25:42.040 --> 0:25:42.720
<v Speaker 1>Jasper Park.

0:25:43.359 --> 0:25:46.360
<v Speaker 2>So the super cool part about Jasper is it's got

0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:50.119
<v Speaker 2>a whole series of peaks, and it's also got a

0:25:50.240 --> 0:25:54.560
<v Speaker 2>series of ranges, and every hole lines up with either

0:25:54.760 --> 0:25:58.960
<v Speaker 2>a range or an individual peak. So Pyramid Mountain is

0:25:59.000 --> 0:26:02.320
<v Speaker 2>one of the most dominating mountains for all of Jasper, and.

0:26:02.320 --> 0:26:03.280
<v Speaker 3>Part of it's the color.

0:26:05.080 --> 0:26:08.520
<v Speaker 2>It's a reddish hue, which is unusual for all the

0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:12.400
<v Speaker 2>mountains around there, and so it really stands out and

0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:16.840
<v Speaker 2>when you stand on eleven t the backdrop is absolutely

0:26:16.880 --> 0:26:19.520
<v Speaker 2>spot on. So I know one of the things I

0:26:19.680 --> 0:26:21.520
<v Speaker 2>said when I was talking to Talon about it, because

0:26:21.520 --> 0:26:23.760
<v Speaker 2>we ended up in a conversation about it a while ago,

0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:27.159
<v Speaker 2>is I believe he had an idea what he was

0:26:27.200 --> 0:26:30.160
<v Speaker 2>doing on that, and I think what happened was occasionally

0:26:31.119 --> 0:26:33.679
<v Speaker 2>he realized as he's cleared the hole out that if

0:26:33.680 --> 0:26:35.480
<v Speaker 2>he shifted something, because if you look at some of

0:26:35.520 --> 0:26:37.520
<v Speaker 2>the clearing lines, there's sort of a wabble to a

0:26:37.520 --> 0:26:42.040
<v Speaker 2>few of the clearing lines. So if that's your clearing line,

0:26:42.160 --> 0:26:44.960
<v Speaker 2>there's all of a sudden, a little wobble and it's

0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:46.720
<v Speaker 2>set over there. And I think what he did was

0:26:46.760 --> 0:26:48.399
<v Speaker 2>he just moved a few things around to get a

0:26:48.440 --> 0:26:52.400
<v Speaker 2>few things to line up. But he also didn't look

0:26:52.520 --> 0:26:54.760
<v Speaker 2>directly at the peaks, like that wasn't the game he

0:26:54.840 --> 0:26:57.480
<v Speaker 2>was playing. He wanted to identify what he was sharing.

0:26:58.000 --> 0:27:00.800
<v Speaker 2>So to Caracut, it's not a lot look at the peaks.

0:27:01.160 --> 0:27:04.639
<v Speaker 2>It's off to your side. Same with old Man coming

0:27:04.680 --> 0:27:08.240
<v Speaker 2>down too. Old Man's actually up to your left. But

0:27:08.280 --> 0:27:10.760
<v Speaker 2>there's no question when you look over knowing that the

0:27:12.400 --> 0:27:19.119
<v Speaker 2>old Man is a face, and some feel it's an

0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:22.600
<v Speaker 2>Indian head. There's sort of different views on what it is,

0:27:22.680 --> 0:27:25.160
<v Speaker 2>but it's clear as day, and it's just.

0:27:25.080 --> 0:27:25.960
<v Speaker 3>The way the rock is.

0:27:26.000 --> 0:27:28.639
<v Speaker 2>It's the colors of the rock produce this wonderful face

0:27:28.680 --> 0:27:32.760
<v Speaker 2>with obviously the shape. You clearly see the nose and

0:27:32.800 --> 0:27:35.520
<v Speaker 2>it's got really angular nose features, but it almost looks

0:27:35.560 --> 0:27:38.919
<v Speaker 2>like a human head. It's wild, but he gives that

0:27:39.000 --> 0:27:40.960
<v Speaker 2>to you at an off angle. But there's no question

0:27:41.040 --> 0:27:43.439
<v Speaker 2>when you stand looking at the second shot, looking at

0:27:43.440 --> 0:27:46.919
<v Speaker 2>what you've got to do, everything's feeding towards the left,

0:27:47.040 --> 0:27:50.919
<v Speaker 2>and when you let your eye wander out there, it is,

0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:54.440
<v Speaker 2>and so you wander up, you can't miss it. And

0:27:54.560 --> 0:27:58.840
<v Speaker 2>I remember playing there not knowing about it. I was

0:27:58.880 --> 0:28:03.440
<v Speaker 2>immediately drawn up to that ridgeline and eventually to that

0:28:04.760 --> 0:28:06.479
<v Speaker 2>specific shape.

0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:09.359
<v Speaker 1>So it's not just a matter of like pointing golf

0:28:09.400 --> 0:28:14.040
<v Speaker 1>holes at certain mountain ranges. It's about kind of varying

0:28:14.440 --> 0:28:18.000
<v Speaker 1>the perspective in the line through which he might see

0:28:18.119 --> 0:28:20.680
<v Speaker 1>at one of these borrowed scenery scenes.

0:28:21.160 --> 0:28:22.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think what he did was he.

0:28:24.359 --> 0:28:27.200
<v Speaker 2>Found holes, but I think he had some options on

0:28:27.240 --> 0:28:29.120
<v Speaker 2>a few of the holes, and I think he manipulated

0:28:29.160 --> 0:28:29.399
<v Speaker 2>it to.

0:28:31.359 --> 0:28:33.560
<v Speaker 3>Gain the best way to present. And that's the thing.

0:28:33.680 --> 0:28:39.120
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes presenting a feature is not rooting it directly at it.

0:28:39.200 --> 0:28:44.840
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes presenting the best presentation of a feature is working

0:28:45.080 --> 0:28:48.080
<v Speaker 2>either parallel to it or working on an angle to it.

0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:52.280
<v Speaker 2>And then what it does is it doesn't dominate the backdrop.

0:28:52.520 --> 0:28:56.920
<v Speaker 2>It becomes part of the entire composition. And that's where

0:28:56.920 --> 0:28:59.640
<v Speaker 2>I find.

0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:01.800
<v Speaker 3>I've always liked.

0:29:01.760 --> 0:29:06.120
<v Speaker 2>The view, particularly when you get into eight, and I

0:29:06.160 --> 0:29:09.080
<v Speaker 2>think part of the distant view I just like because

0:29:09.120 --> 0:29:13.840
<v Speaker 2>it actually shares a series of ridge lines that I

0:29:13.880 --> 0:29:17.160
<v Speaker 2>really enjoy. But it's the interplay with ones going this way,

0:29:17.600 --> 0:29:20.920
<v Speaker 2>another one's going that way. And you know, I think

0:29:21.400 --> 0:29:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Bill Corsone who's always talked about looking for reverse cats

0:29:25.040 --> 0:29:28.520
<v Speaker 2>or when away the fairway's falling that way and then

0:29:28.560 --> 0:29:31.400
<v Speaker 2>the green sight's falling the opposite way. Well, think about

0:29:31.480 --> 0:29:33.400
<v Speaker 2>Thompson doing the same thing, but doing that with the

0:29:33.440 --> 0:29:34.320
<v Speaker 2>scenery instead.

0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:38.160
<v Speaker 3>That's that's some pretty cool crap going on. Again. I'm

0:29:38.160 --> 0:29:39.080
<v Speaker 3>doing good not to swear.

0:29:41.160 --> 0:29:43.000
<v Speaker 1>I think crap is okay. I think we can I

0:29:43.040 --> 0:29:45.520
<v Speaker 1>think we can get away with that one. So we've

0:29:45.560 --> 0:29:47.800
<v Speaker 1>talked about a couple of things that make Jasper Park's

0:29:48.160 --> 0:29:52.960
<v Speaker 1>architecture special, This idea of borrowed scenery, the use of scale.

0:29:54.800 --> 0:29:58.600
<v Speaker 1>What were the redone bunkers like at Jasper Park? And

0:29:58.600 --> 0:30:01.240
<v Speaker 1>now I think that maybe some people have an image

0:30:01.280 --> 0:30:04.120
<v Speaker 1>in their minds of the bunkers at Bamp Springs with

0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:07.520
<v Speaker 1>all their kind of wild tongues and capes and bays,

0:30:07.640 --> 0:30:12.360
<v Speaker 1>and this just a sort of showy bunker style in

0:30:12.400 --> 0:30:16.520
<v Speaker 1>a lot of ways, they're they're at Bamp. When Thompson

0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:20.440
<v Speaker 1>came back to make some changes at Jasper Park, did

0:30:20.480 --> 0:30:22.360
<v Speaker 1>he go for that same style? Is that what the

0:30:22.480 --> 0:30:24.760
<v Speaker 1>vintage bunkers at Jasper no.

0:30:24.600 --> 0:30:28.720
<v Speaker 2>And that's one of my favorite things about this is

0:30:28.760 --> 0:30:29.440
<v Speaker 2>why he's just.

0:30:30.920 --> 0:30:31.760
<v Speaker 1>The changed The.

0:30:31.640 --> 0:30:36.120
<v Speaker 2>Pantheon bamp was way more loose edged than it looks

0:30:36.240 --> 0:30:41.640
<v Speaker 2>even today. It was pretty wild and naturalistic and rough.

0:30:41.880 --> 0:30:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Jasper even if it was redone had bays and noses

0:30:45.480 --> 0:30:50.719
<v Speaker 2>and islands, but it had very controlled lines, very organized lines.

0:30:50.800 --> 0:30:51.360
<v Speaker 3>There were.

0:30:52.880 --> 0:30:58.680
<v Speaker 2>Wonderfully organic in places, and then they were Again. One

0:30:58.680 --> 0:31:00.600
<v Speaker 2>of the things I had to learn with doing restoration

0:31:00.640 --> 0:31:02.560
<v Speaker 2>of his work is you have to learn to build

0:31:02.600 --> 0:31:08.520
<v Speaker 2>straight lines so something would be straight. And again I'm

0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:10.480
<v Speaker 2>trying to think who sort of pointed that out to me.

0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:13.160
<v Speaker 2>It might have been another one of those Jeff Cornish conversations.

0:31:15.240 --> 0:31:18.479
<v Speaker 2>But if you look up in nature, you find in

0:31:18.600 --> 0:31:21.560
<v Speaker 2>nature there are straight lines. So if you built everything organic,

0:31:21.800 --> 0:31:25.360
<v Speaker 2>then it just comes across as organic. If you can

0:31:25.440 --> 0:31:28.400
<v Speaker 2>mix your straight lines, your curves, your angles, your corners

0:31:29.320 --> 0:31:32.920
<v Speaker 2>with some organic lines, you get something that's much more natural.

0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:34.920
<v Speaker 3>Funny enough, natural has.

0:31:36.400 --> 0:31:37.960
<v Speaker 2>A lot of stuff that I would look for in

0:31:38.000 --> 0:31:41.360
<v Speaker 2>the wood shop to create straight lines with. And one

0:31:41.400 --> 0:31:42.520
<v Speaker 2>of the things I had to learn when I was

0:31:42.560 --> 0:31:45.200
<v Speaker 2>doing Saint George's was to actually build a bunch of

0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:48.800
<v Speaker 2>straight lines and a bunch of perfect corners.

0:31:48.840 --> 0:31:50.000
<v Speaker 3>And allow.

0:31:51.240 --> 0:31:54.880
<v Speaker 2>As you're building and you're finishing, it evolves to something

0:31:54.920 --> 0:32:00.280
<v Speaker 2>that's not perfectly square, and you just do you let

0:32:00.320 --> 0:32:03.360
<v Speaker 2>that happen. And you know that as every layer, the

0:32:03.400 --> 0:32:07.120
<v Speaker 2>topsoil going on, the turf going on, every layer is

0:32:07.160 --> 0:32:11.160
<v Speaker 2>going to mute the rigid lines. But the funny part

0:32:11.200 --> 0:32:13.160
<v Speaker 2>was it was Jim or Bean actually we ended up

0:32:13.160 --> 0:32:16.200
<v Speaker 2>talking about straight lines. This goes back to when Pacific

0:32:16.280 --> 0:32:19.680
<v Speaker 2>Dunes was first opening. We had a conversation about how

0:32:19.720 --> 0:32:23.160
<v Speaker 2>you get natural bunkers and it involves way more straight

0:32:23.200 --> 0:32:28.320
<v Speaker 2>lines than you ever can possibly imagine, and math and

0:32:28.400 --> 0:32:31.200
<v Speaker 2>math and a lot more math than you would think too.

0:32:31.160 --> 0:32:34.640
<v Speaker 1>More geometry than you might think. Yep. Yeah, because when

0:32:34.680 --> 0:32:38.840
<v Speaker 1>people think of naturalistic bunkers they think of kind of

0:32:38.920 --> 0:32:42.800
<v Speaker 1>the cloud like flowing shapes. That you're saying that there's

0:32:43.280 --> 0:32:48.440
<v Speaker 1>more linearity involved in creating bunkers like this than they might.

0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:52.840
<v Speaker 2>If you get everything to if everything flows cloud like,

0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:55.120
<v Speaker 2>If everything flows, then all you get is something that

0:32:55.200 --> 0:33:00.240
<v Speaker 2>essentially looks like a cloud. It's not that artistic, it's

0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:04.640
<v Speaker 2>just moving. But if it's moving really regularly, it's actually

0:33:05.160 --> 0:33:10.160
<v Speaker 2>almost upsetting to be organic but controlled. So you prefer

0:33:10.200 --> 0:33:12.200
<v Speaker 2>it to be a little bit organic and a little

0:33:12.200 --> 0:33:15.320
<v Speaker 2>bit loose, but it's still going to look manufactured.

0:33:17.200 --> 0:33:17.960
<v Speaker 3>It has to.

0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:21.560
<v Speaker 2>Have some things that sort of look like erosion has

0:33:21.600 --> 0:33:28.400
<v Speaker 2>a tendency to be straighter, And if you think about

0:33:28.480 --> 0:33:31.920
<v Speaker 2>naturalistic bunkers, you've got to start thinking about erosion and

0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:35.080
<v Speaker 2>what would happen if we built something but we left

0:33:35.120 --> 0:33:38.120
<v Speaker 2>it for a month, we had four or five major rainstorms,

0:33:38.120 --> 0:33:39.800
<v Speaker 2>and then we had to finish it because we don't

0:33:39.800 --> 0:33:43.800
<v Speaker 2>have any equipment on site. That actually is kind of

0:33:43.840 --> 0:33:46.200
<v Speaker 2>how you make natural bunkers is you've got to think

0:33:46.240 --> 0:33:50.960
<v Speaker 2>about erosion or evolution. What would happen, Where would the

0:33:51.000 --> 0:33:53.600
<v Speaker 2>sand splash end up? Or what if a piece of

0:33:53.600 --> 0:33:55.600
<v Speaker 2>equipment slipped down the side, but we just put all

0:33:55.640 --> 0:33:58.520
<v Speaker 2>the grass back, because that's actually what the.

0:33:58.440 --> 0:34:03.280
<v Speaker 3>Really old bunkers we like. Part of it is evolution.

0:34:03.440 --> 0:34:06.120
<v Speaker 2>It's just they get a little bit of erosion, they

0:34:06.160 --> 0:34:07.800
<v Speaker 2>get a little bit of damage, they get a little

0:34:07.800 --> 0:34:11.520
<v Speaker 2>bit of the repairs soften one area out, they sharpen

0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:15.040
<v Speaker 2>another area up, and it's the inconsistencies that make natural.

0:34:16.239 --> 0:34:19.520
<v Speaker 1>So would you say that in Thompson's follow up work

0:34:19.560 --> 0:34:22.960
<v Speaker 1>at Jasper Park that he got even further along in

0:34:23.000 --> 0:34:27.359
<v Speaker 1>his development as a bunker builder than he was when

0:34:27.400 --> 0:34:29.799
<v Speaker 1>he built bamf Springs.

0:34:29.560 --> 0:34:32.560
<v Speaker 2>That is a very interesting question because I'm having to

0:34:32.600 --> 0:34:33.480
<v Speaker 2>think about that one.

0:34:33.680 --> 0:34:35.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm feeling like this is what you're implying, though, but

0:34:36.719 --> 0:34:38.160
<v Speaker 1>this seems like it would be a new idea.

0:34:38.200 --> 0:34:39.799
<v Speaker 2>Well, there was no question like the first set of

0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:42.640
<v Speaker 2>bunkers he did were surprisingly plain.

0:34:43.800 --> 0:34:46.520
<v Speaker 3>And now the thing is, Thompson's.

0:34:46.000 --> 0:34:49.040
<v Speaker 2>Career started off with he started in the early twenties,

0:34:49.920 --> 0:34:53.560
<v Speaker 2>and he was limited by what was going on. So

0:34:53.600 --> 0:34:58.800
<v Speaker 2>you did have some cult examples just at that time,

0:34:59.280 --> 0:35:04.560
<v Speaker 2>and you had some Willie Park work, but at that

0:35:04.680 --> 0:35:08.120
<v Speaker 2>point a lot of things were very simple in nature,

0:35:08.160 --> 0:35:13.640
<v Speaker 2>and even Thompson's earliest work there were some noses, there

0:35:13.640 --> 0:35:16.560
<v Speaker 2>were even surprisingly in twenty three there were some islands,

0:35:17.000 --> 0:35:20.720
<v Speaker 2>which that's super early in is he was playing with things,

0:35:22.080 --> 0:35:26.840
<v Speaker 2>but it was fairly simple, rudimentary, and largely small in

0:35:27.400 --> 0:35:30.200
<v Speaker 2>context of what he would do later on. So he

0:35:30.280 --> 0:35:35.799
<v Speaker 2>was evolving as he went and I just think hard

0:35:35.800 --> 0:35:37.960
<v Speaker 2>to believe, but by Bam Springs he had done half

0:35:38.000 --> 0:35:40.120
<v Speaker 2>the work he ever would do. So he'd done forty

0:35:40.120 --> 0:35:43.839
<v Speaker 2>golf courses and we're only talking about seven years, seven

0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:47.160
<v Speaker 2>or eight years in total. Seven years, eight years, I

0:35:47.160 --> 0:35:52.360
<v Speaker 2>guess by the end. But you can see as you

0:35:52.400 --> 0:35:55.640
<v Speaker 2>go through all those golf courses he's trying things, trying

0:35:55.680 --> 0:35:59.160
<v Speaker 2>new things. I think part of that new people, I

0:35:59.160 --> 0:36:01.920
<v Speaker 2>think part of that. I do know he was traveling

0:36:01.920 --> 0:36:04.520
<v Speaker 2>around to see other works, so he was learning as

0:36:04.520 --> 0:36:06.359
<v Speaker 2>he was going. I do know he went to see

0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:11.160
<v Speaker 2>Wingfoot when it was being built, so I know when

0:36:11.160 --> 0:36:14.680
<v Speaker 2>he was during the war, he got out to Glenn Eagles.

0:36:15.160 --> 0:36:16.360
<v Speaker 3>He even at.

0:36:16.160 --> 0:36:19.000
<v Speaker 2>One point mentions Pine Valley of he admired it, but

0:36:19.000 --> 0:36:20.920
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to do it, didn't want to be the

0:36:20.920 --> 0:36:23.560
<v Speaker 2>one to build something like that. So he was seeing

0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:26.600
<v Speaker 2>a lot of very interesting ideas. The interesting thing was

0:36:26.640 --> 0:36:29.359
<v Speaker 2>Cornish told me that every once in a while he'd

0:36:29.360 --> 0:36:31.799
<v Speaker 2>see something he'd think was clearly way better than he

0:36:31.840 --> 0:36:34.640
<v Speaker 2>was doing and would actually make him depressed. And yeah,

0:36:34.840 --> 0:36:36.480
<v Speaker 2>he did have an issue with depression, a little bit

0:36:36.480 --> 0:36:39.640
<v Speaker 2>of an issue with depression. And he said, whenever he

0:36:39.680 --> 0:36:42.359
<v Speaker 2>saw something he thought was really great, he was either

0:36:42.400 --> 0:36:44.880
<v Speaker 2>excited by it or he had the blues, and that

0:36:44.960 --> 0:36:46.839
<v Speaker 2>was sort of his reaction to it. But I think

0:36:46.920 --> 0:36:49.200
<v Speaker 2>even if he had the blues, in the end, he

0:36:49.280 --> 0:36:51.879
<v Speaker 2>was just I think the one thing he doesn't get

0:36:51.880 --> 0:36:55.800
<v Speaker 2>credit for is being competitive. And I know he's super

0:36:55.800 --> 0:36:57.799
<v Speaker 2>competitive with tilling Hass because he was pissed off that

0:36:58.560 --> 0:37:00.719
<v Speaker 2>tilling Hass came to do Scarborough that he didn't get

0:37:00.719 --> 0:37:02.719
<v Speaker 2>that commission, and so.

0:37:02.680 --> 0:37:03.360
<v Speaker 3>We had a thing for.

0:37:03.719 --> 0:37:05.480
<v Speaker 2>That was one of the fascinating parts about him is

0:37:05.480 --> 0:37:07.440
<v Speaker 2>he had a thing for tilling asked, and yet he

0:37:07.480 --> 0:37:10.680
<v Speaker 2>had this wonderful relationship with Charles Allison, like they were

0:37:10.800 --> 0:37:15.799
<v Speaker 2>really friendly and remain friendly. From Allison's period where he

0:37:15.800 --> 0:37:17.720
<v Speaker 2>came up Toronto golf and to New York downs.

0:37:19.040 --> 0:37:21.359
<v Speaker 1>He wanted to be better though yes.

0:37:21.880 --> 0:37:25.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think we all do, I think, but I

0:37:26.400 --> 0:37:32.240
<v Speaker 2>want to be better comes with striving to be better.

0:37:32.400 --> 0:37:34.200
<v Speaker 2>You have to strive to be better to be better.

0:37:34.280 --> 0:37:35.680
<v Speaker 3>And the other end of it is.

0:37:39.160 --> 0:37:42.120
<v Speaker 2>You have to be willing to be stubborn. And not

0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:47.120
<v Speaker 2>all of us, if I'm picking on a personal fault,

0:37:47.239 --> 0:37:51.880
<v Speaker 2>not all of us have that ability to be stubborn

0:37:52.000 --> 0:37:57.880
<v Speaker 2>or contentious or or difficult. Even you need to be

0:37:57.880 --> 0:37:59.200
<v Speaker 2>difficult to be great.

0:37:59.840 --> 0:38:02.080
<v Speaker 1>And what certainly drives a lot of people.

0:38:02.160 --> 0:38:03.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and so it's funny.

0:38:03.160 --> 0:38:04.719
<v Speaker 2>You can look at you can look at the people

0:38:04.760 --> 0:38:09.879
<v Speaker 2>who've done really well, even the people with wonderful personalities

0:38:09.920 --> 0:38:13.440
<v Speaker 2>like to take a Gill or a Bill and they

0:38:13.480 --> 0:38:17.840
<v Speaker 2>still are. They know when to just hold.

0:38:17.680 --> 0:38:19.640
<v Speaker 3>Their ground and that's what makes them great.

0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:25.040
<v Speaker 2>Bill does it in a way that I'm fully convinced.

0:38:25.080 --> 0:38:28.720
<v Speaker 2>Bill could tell you to f off to your face

0:38:29.080 --> 0:38:31.920
<v Speaker 2>and have you appreciate the way he said it. He

0:38:32.040 --> 0:38:35.760
<v Speaker 2>I just think that he's got the ability to inform

0:38:35.840 --> 0:38:37.560
<v Speaker 2>you that he's not going to do something in a

0:38:37.640 --> 0:38:42.160
<v Speaker 2>way that you actually appreciate the whole conversation and don't

0:38:42.200 --> 0:38:44.799
<v Speaker 2>realize it untill after the fact sort of thing. He

0:38:44.920 --> 0:38:48.239
<v Speaker 2>just he's just got a wonderful nature to him that

0:38:49.040 --> 0:38:53.439
<v Speaker 2>it comes across at all moments, regardless of whether he's

0:38:53.480 --> 0:38:55.880
<v Speaker 2>needing to say no, I don't really want to do that.

0:38:57.239 --> 0:38:59.759
<v Speaker 1>So bringing this back to Stanley Thompson, he did have

0:38:59.800 --> 0:39:02.399
<v Speaker 1>some with this edge about him. It drove him, you do,

0:39:02.640 --> 0:39:05.239
<v Speaker 1>he could be difficult things with his golf courses, right,

0:39:05.320 --> 0:39:09.160
<v Speaker 1>He'd evolved through the course of his career, and part

0:39:09.239 --> 0:39:13.520
<v Speaker 1>of what makes Jasper Park interesting is that it was

0:39:13.680 --> 0:39:17.279
<v Speaker 1>because he returned to it and made some changes. It

0:39:17.880 --> 0:39:22.520
<v Speaker 1>was a document of some of that development. Ye a golf.

0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:23.960
<v Speaker 3>Architect as a historian.

0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:28.120
<v Speaker 2>For me, what's interesting is that's that's the moment where

0:39:28.680 --> 0:39:30.560
<v Speaker 2>I was always trying to figure out when he became.

0:39:32.480 --> 0:39:34.600
<v Speaker 2>My joke with a friend of mine was Stanley F.

0:39:34.680 --> 0:39:38.400
<v Speaker 2>And Thompson is sort of when he became great, the

0:39:38.840 --> 0:39:40.600
<v Speaker 2>person that we all go to study. And I think

0:39:40.600 --> 0:39:44.279
<v Speaker 2>it was just this continuous evolution to Bamp Springs, and

0:39:44.320 --> 0:39:47.520
<v Speaker 2>I think of Bam Springs essentially Bam Springs. He said,

0:39:47.600 --> 0:39:50.920
<v Speaker 2>here's everything I can do, here's every trick I've got.

0:39:51.400 --> 0:39:53.960
<v Speaker 2>And he never did it again, never built with as

0:39:53.960 --> 0:39:59.600
<v Speaker 2>many bunkers, never went near his elaborate He actually said, okay,

0:39:59.680 --> 0:40:03.520
<v Speaker 2>I can. I can throw down bunkers with the George

0:40:03.520 --> 0:40:06.160
<v Speaker 2>Thomases and the Telling hass And you want to name

0:40:06.160 --> 0:40:08.319
<v Speaker 2>whoever great bunker builder is, I can throw it down

0:40:08.360 --> 0:40:09.880
<v Speaker 2>with any of them, and I can kick their ass.

0:40:11.120 --> 0:40:13.880
<v Speaker 2>I've proven I can do it. And then what was

0:40:13.920 --> 0:40:16.080
<v Speaker 2>interesting was I would say he added more and more

0:40:16.120 --> 0:40:18.520
<v Speaker 2>restraint from that period forward and it just kept going.

0:40:18.960 --> 0:40:20.799
<v Speaker 2>By the time he did Capilana, who he was doing

0:40:21.040 --> 0:40:21.880
<v Speaker 2>bunkerless holes.

0:40:21.920 --> 0:40:23.200
<v Speaker 3>By the time he did highland links.

0:40:23.239 --> 0:40:27.719
<v Speaker 2>He did four or sorry five bunkerless Greens, relied on

0:40:27.760 --> 0:40:30.400
<v Speaker 2>the land More did way less bunkering. I think he

0:40:30.560 --> 0:40:33.600
<v Speaker 2>just proved something and then I think he Part of

0:40:33.600 --> 0:40:37.520
<v Speaker 2>it was obviously circumstance wars, but part of it as

0:40:37.560 --> 0:40:39.879
<v Speaker 2>well is I think he just I can do this,

0:40:40.560 --> 0:40:43.439
<v Speaker 2>but I don't need to do that. I'm smart enough,

0:40:43.440 --> 0:40:45.719
<v Speaker 2>and I think he just showed that he could do

0:40:45.760 --> 0:40:48.480
<v Speaker 2>it hell of a lot with contours and so there's

0:40:48.520 --> 0:40:50.600
<v Speaker 2>a lot more reliance on the contrast. That's one of

0:40:50.640 --> 0:40:53.840
<v Speaker 2>the things I enjoy about Jasper over Banff bamf relies

0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:56.840
<v Speaker 2>on the bunkering. It's obviously got a couple of moments

0:40:56.880 --> 0:41:02.160
<v Speaker 2>that don't. Interestingly, Cauldron was without bunkers originally, which is fascinating,

0:41:03.719 --> 0:41:05.759
<v Speaker 2>and the credit goes to Trent Jones for suggesting to

0:41:05.800 --> 0:41:06.239
<v Speaker 2>put them in.

0:41:07.600 --> 0:41:08.200
<v Speaker 3>Fascinating.

0:41:10.000 --> 0:41:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Stan did it, but Trent suggested it on a report

0:41:13.640 --> 0:41:16.239
<v Speaker 2>and it's not far removed from what the design is.

0:41:19.400 --> 0:41:23.440
<v Speaker 2>But what I appreciate about Stan was, you know, he

0:41:24.360 --> 0:41:26.160
<v Speaker 2>was I think he was flexible.

0:41:26.200 --> 0:41:27.359
<v Speaker 3>I think the.

0:41:27.239 --> 0:41:30.640
<v Speaker 2>Beauty of is like even he didn't go back to

0:41:30.719 --> 0:41:34.400
<v Speaker 2>Jasper and say, well, I'm sorry, it's perfection in my

0:41:34.520 --> 0:41:36.600
<v Speaker 2>first version, he went back and went, No, this could

0:41:36.600 --> 0:41:38.920
<v Speaker 2>be way better. I can do something different, And then

0:41:38.960 --> 0:41:41.480
<v Speaker 2>he went back again and he just continued to tinker

0:41:41.520 --> 0:41:44.080
<v Speaker 2>away of a little bit more framework would make this

0:41:44.120 --> 0:41:47.399
<v Speaker 2>whole better. You know, I can do something really elaborate here,

0:41:47.719 --> 0:41:51.080
<v Speaker 2>And I think he just kept trying stuff. I think

0:41:51.120 --> 0:41:53.160
<v Speaker 2>really World War two is where it just kind of

0:41:53.440 --> 0:41:56.839
<v Speaker 2>ended to a degree. He did some interesting things afterwards,

0:41:56.840 --> 0:42:01.720
<v Speaker 2>but I just think his probables with alcoholism were getting

0:42:01.719 --> 0:42:04.759
<v Speaker 2>worse going into the war. And also there was only

0:42:04.800 --> 0:42:08.120
<v Speaker 2>seven commissions after that, and you know, the money wasn't

0:42:08.160 --> 0:42:11.719
<v Speaker 2>really around till the fifties, so I think he was

0:42:11.800 --> 0:42:13.799
<v Speaker 2>kind of limited in what he was going to accomplish.

0:42:13.840 --> 0:42:16.359
<v Speaker 2>But it's interesting. You go to some of the South

0:42:16.400 --> 0:42:19.600
<v Speaker 2>American work and it's got some it's got some jazz too,

0:42:20.440 --> 0:42:22.200
<v Speaker 2>Like I think some of the stuff he did at

0:42:22.200 --> 0:42:23.200
<v Speaker 2>Gabby it was pretty cool.

0:42:23.840 --> 0:42:27.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Later in his career, Stanley Thompson started working working

0:42:27.280 --> 0:42:30.680
<v Speaker 1>a little more in South America, experimenting kind of in

0:42:30.719 --> 0:42:33.440
<v Speaker 1>the same way in that region that Mackenzie did in

0:42:33.840 --> 0:42:37.440
<v Speaker 1>the early nineteen thirties. But I want to bring this

0:42:37.719 --> 0:42:41.520
<v Speaker 1>back to Jasper Park and back to the present day,

0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:44.840
<v Speaker 1>So where is the course at now.

0:42:45.280 --> 0:42:48.160
<v Speaker 2>After the fire, Glen Griffiths, the superintendent, was able to

0:42:48.200 --> 0:42:51.640
<v Speaker 2>recover ten greens, so he actually stripped some of the

0:42:51.760 --> 0:42:55.200
<v Speaker 2>other greens that ended up being resotted. What happened was

0:42:55.200 --> 0:42:58.520
<v Speaker 2>a number of the greens got burnt thirteen. The green

0:42:58.600 --> 0:43:02.080
<v Speaker 2>looked like plates, a turf look like that. It all

0:43:02.080 --> 0:43:07.560
<v Speaker 2>looked like us and it just burnt and curled. There

0:43:07.600 --> 0:43:10.440
<v Speaker 2>was a lot of intense fire right at that particular spot,

0:43:11.200 --> 0:43:17.200
<v Speaker 2>and so what happened was resotted those greens, resotted some

0:43:17.239 --> 0:43:19.399
<v Speaker 2>of the approaches that were lost where trees fell down.

0:43:19.719 --> 0:43:22.240
<v Speaker 2>There was a lot of trees falling down and burning turf.

0:43:23.719 --> 0:43:26.920
<v Speaker 2>So we resotted eight greens. We actually expanded three of

0:43:26.960 --> 0:43:30.759
<v Speaker 2>them back to their original extents. It's twenty feet back

0:43:30.760 --> 0:43:34.560
<v Speaker 2>to the left on seven. So first time anybody plays

0:43:34.719 --> 0:43:37.239
<v Speaker 2>with that old pin position back, they're going to think

0:43:37.280 --> 0:43:39.799
<v Speaker 2>that the pins actually cut off the green because it

0:43:39.880 --> 0:43:42.120
<v Speaker 2>just doesn't look like there's any green over there. But

0:43:42.280 --> 0:43:44.200
<v Speaker 2>the old grain used to go back into that corner.

0:43:44.480 --> 0:43:46.440
<v Speaker 2>So we recaptured a couple of spots more of the

0:43:46.520 --> 0:43:50.240
<v Speaker 2>kicker on eight and we'll do some of that work

0:43:50.280 --> 0:43:56.080
<v Speaker 2>over time, so that was done. He saved the fairways,

0:43:56.080 --> 0:43:58.480
<v Speaker 2>did a lot of overseating there in the middle of

0:43:58.480 --> 0:44:02.520
<v Speaker 2>doing an irrigation system now and then the big thing

0:44:02.560 --> 0:44:06.839
<v Speaker 2>is the trees. I would say there's fifty trees left

0:44:06.840 --> 0:44:09.880
<v Speaker 2>on the golf course in total, and they were individual trees,

0:44:10.640 --> 0:44:16.000
<v Speaker 2>and unfortunately, because of the way things work, those trees

0:44:16.040 --> 0:44:21.040
<v Speaker 2>will put out essentially an indication that they're in stress,

0:44:21.040 --> 0:44:24.799
<v Speaker 2>and beetles are drawn to stress. So essentially even those

0:44:24.880 --> 0:44:29.520
<v Speaker 2>Douglas were expected to go. And so what we're doing

0:44:29.560 --> 0:44:31.680
<v Speaker 2>is we're going to plant one hundred and fifty thousand

0:44:31.719 --> 0:44:35.720
<v Speaker 2>seedlings mixed because the golf course actually breaks down into

0:44:35.760 --> 0:44:40.800
<v Speaker 2>different forest structures, and then we'll replant with the idea.

0:44:40.920 --> 0:44:43.120
<v Speaker 2>My mindset is to put it back the way it

0:44:44.320 --> 0:44:47.719
<v Speaker 2>was when I showed up, when I was first day

0:44:47.719 --> 0:44:51.920
<v Speaker 2>I was married. Actually we stayed in jasper So and

0:44:51.960 --> 0:44:56.640
<v Speaker 2>I saw the golf firstam embarrassing or depending on your

0:44:56.640 --> 0:44:58.879
<v Speaker 2>point of view. But my first day I actually went

0:44:58.920 --> 0:45:02.560
<v Speaker 2>and played golf by myself and my wife wore a

0:45:02.560 --> 0:45:04.839
<v Speaker 2>golf woildo button. It was she encouraged me.

0:45:04.800 --> 0:45:05.239
<v Speaker 3>To do it.

0:45:06.120 --> 0:45:08.200
<v Speaker 1>That's nice. She knew what she was in for it

0:45:08.280 --> 0:45:08.560
<v Speaker 1>that way.

0:45:08.640 --> 0:45:09.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think so.

0:45:10.880 --> 0:45:14.640
<v Speaker 2>And I would like even the individual, the big Douglas

0:45:14.640 --> 0:45:16.640
<v Speaker 2>fur that it's rooted around. So what we're going to

0:45:16.680 --> 0:45:20.400
<v Speaker 2>try to do is get Parks Canada to let us

0:45:20.440 --> 0:45:23.080
<v Speaker 2>collect pine cones and actually get a nursery to grow

0:45:23.160 --> 0:45:25.920
<v Speaker 2>the pine trees. We need to grow them to about

0:45:26.360 --> 0:45:31.120
<v Speaker 2>twelve to fifteen years old, otherwise they can be damaged

0:45:31.160 --> 0:45:34.160
<v Speaker 2>by equipment. They've put the fence back up, so that

0:45:34.200 --> 0:45:37.200
<v Speaker 2>should keep the elk out. If we didn't put the

0:45:37.239 --> 0:45:39.680
<v Speaker 2>fence back up, the elk would actually eat all the seedlings.

0:45:40.440 --> 0:45:42.440
<v Speaker 2>So the idea is that's the only way we're going

0:45:42.480 --> 0:45:44.680
<v Speaker 2>to get the seedlings to come back up. So we're

0:45:44.680 --> 0:45:46.360
<v Speaker 2>going to actually try to put it back to what

0:45:46.400 --> 0:45:50.279
<v Speaker 2>it was. But my view is one hundred year of view.

0:45:50.640 --> 0:45:54.560
<v Speaker 2>So I've told them I'll we'll put all this arrangement.

0:45:54.600 --> 0:45:58.480
<v Speaker 2>I may see the bigger trees go in when I'm fading.

0:46:00.080 --> 0:46:02.480
<v Speaker 2>Hopefully I'm still traveling and I could go see that,

0:46:03.239 --> 0:46:05.760
<v Speaker 2>and then it's just as you need sort of fifty

0:46:05.800 --> 0:46:07.640
<v Speaker 2>to one hundred years for that forest to return. But

0:46:07.640 --> 0:46:10.960
<v Speaker 2>I would like it to be presented the way I

0:46:11.040 --> 0:46:13.799
<v Speaker 2>saw it, the way some of the views we're going

0:46:13.880 --> 0:46:16.480
<v Speaker 2>to leave open and all the turf issues that were

0:46:16.520 --> 0:46:22.160
<v Speaker 2>created by overgrowth. We've actually planted rescue and we've stripped

0:46:22.200 --> 0:46:23.759
<v Speaker 2>everything out so they can get in a mowe it,

0:46:24.480 --> 0:46:26.560
<v Speaker 2>so they won't have those issues anymore. In the metal

0:46:26.560 --> 0:46:28.719
<v Speaker 2>areas will remain metal areas like they used to be.

0:46:29.080 --> 0:46:33.000
<v Speaker 2>They won't be grown in by aspens, so that'll all remain.

0:46:33.080 --> 0:46:34.239
<v Speaker 2>But what I want to do is I want to

0:46:34.239 --> 0:46:39.840
<v Speaker 2>present the property the way it was presented. Would I

0:46:39.920 --> 0:46:42.480
<v Speaker 2>look at it as a restoration right down to the setting.

0:46:43.200 --> 0:46:45.839
<v Speaker 1>A restoration of the course as it was when you

0:46:45.920 --> 0:46:46.720
<v Speaker 1>first saw it.

0:46:46.840 --> 0:46:51.000
<v Speaker 2>The timeline for the trees is actually the early photos.

0:46:50.560 --> 0:46:52.040
<v Speaker 3>The nineteen twenties photos.

0:46:52.160 --> 0:46:56.239
<v Speaker 1>So is there an opportunity here to do something good

0:46:56.280 --> 0:46:59.480
<v Speaker 1>for the golf course? Obviously this is a sad set

0:46:59.480 --> 0:47:04.560
<v Speaker 1>of circumstance answers for everybody, the lodge, the town, the

0:47:04.560 --> 0:47:08.560
<v Speaker 1>golf course itself. But is there something that can come

0:47:08.560 --> 0:47:12.560
<v Speaker 1>from this that might actually produce a better and more

0:47:12.680 --> 0:47:16.080
<v Speaker 1>historically authentic golf course than existed before the fire.

0:47:16.320 --> 0:47:18.440
<v Speaker 2>So you've got some of the views that were lost

0:47:18.440 --> 0:47:21.680
<v Speaker 2>are back. You're not fighting with the part to try

0:47:21.719 --> 0:47:24.040
<v Speaker 2>and remove trees, which they were very reluctant to do.

0:47:24.200 --> 0:47:26.160
<v Speaker 2>We have like seven used to have views on the

0:47:26.200 --> 0:47:28.560
<v Speaker 2>left looking down over ten and six. You've got those

0:47:28.640 --> 0:47:30.640
<v Speaker 2>views back. They will stay. We're not putting any trees

0:47:30.680 --> 0:47:35.280
<v Speaker 2>up in those areas. So any of the larger views

0:47:35.280 --> 0:47:39.800
<v Speaker 2>that where the aspens had grown in, we've planted fascused

0:47:39.800 --> 0:47:42.120
<v Speaker 2>and it's going to be fascus again and so you're

0:47:42.160 --> 0:47:45.160
<v Speaker 2>going to get a little bit more open as it

0:47:45.320 --> 0:47:47.520
<v Speaker 2>was when you look at the opening day photos.

0:47:47.520 --> 0:47:50.560
<v Speaker 3>We're working to those where you've got the forest.

0:47:50.600 --> 0:47:52.680
<v Speaker 2>We're going to establish the forest, which is particularly in

0:47:52.680 --> 0:47:54.080
<v Speaker 2>the middle of the golf course there was actually a

0:47:54.160 --> 0:47:57.919
<v Speaker 2>large forested area, and the superintendent's cottage and the maintenance building,

0:47:57.920 --> 0:47:59.800
<v Speaker 2>we're all in there. And then the big one is

0:47:59.800 --> 0:48:02.160
<v Speaker 2>trying to get the Douglas fur, which he worked around

0:48:02.200 --> 0:48:08.000
<v Speaker 2>the individual furs tremendous tree. Is to try and restore

0:48:08.040 --> 0:48:11.120
<v Speaker 2>those big trees that are actually interwoven into play so

0:48:11.160 --> 0:48:14.439
<v Speaker 2>they come into play. So what we've done is we've

0:48:14.480 --> 0:48:16.799
<v Speaker 2>made sure that none of the stuff that grew in

0:48:17.040 --> 0:48:19.720
<v Speaker 2>can grow back. So we're turning to those old views

0:48:19.719 --> 0:48:23.040
<v Speaker 2>and those old spaces around the green sites, and what

0:48:23.040 --> 0:48:24.719
<v Speaker 2>we're trying to do is reaven trying to put the

0:48:24.760 --> 0:48:28.000
<v Speaker 2>individuals back, and it's only on the first couple of

0:48:28.000 --> 0:48:32.480
<v Speaker 2>holes and the essentially the last four or five holes

0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:36.040
<v Speaker 2>where the individual trees actually stood out. What we'd like

0:48:36.080 --> 0:48:38.520
<v Speaker 2>to do is we'd like to have those individual trees

0:48:38.600 --> 0:48:39.320
<v Speaker 2>be developed.

0:48:39.600 --> 0:48:42.799
<v Speaker 1>Now, what about the golf course features. What kind of

0:48:42.800 --> 0:48:45.880
<v Speaker 1>work do you want to do with the grassing lines,

0:48:45.960 --> 0:48:50.600
<v Speaker 1>the bunkers, the greens, anything along those lines. That's in

0:48:50.640 --> 0:48:51.319
<v Speaker 1>your head right now.

0:48:51.400 --> 0:48:53.080
<v Speaker 2>When we got together in the spring, one of the

0:48:53.080 --> 0:48:56.560
<v Speaker 2>things I did was I pushed the fairways not out

0:48:56.600 --> 0:49:00.480
<v Speaker 2>to the full wits, but six acres out. There's six

0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:03.440
<v Speaker 2>acres more fairway than there was before the fire, and

0:49:03.480 --> 0:49:06.480
<v Speaker 2>that's just to get some of the old fairway wits back.

0:49:07.480 --> 0:49:10.160
<v Speaker 3>One of the biggest problems is to get all of the.

0:49:10.080 --> 0:49:12.399
<v Speaker 2>Fairway wits back, you've actually got to take the cart

0:49:12.400 --> 0:49:17.040
<v Speaker 2>pass system out, which I'm not seeing Fairmont sort of

0:49:18.239 --> 0:49:22.440
<v Speaker 2>running to do because most rounds are resort rounds in

0:49:22.480 --> 0:49:26.480
<v Speaker 2>their cart rounds. So we pushed everything out where we could.

0:49:27.080 --> 0:49:29.759
<v Speaker 2>We've grassed everything out towards the bunkers where it should be.

0:49:30.960 --> 0:49:34.200
<v Speaker 2>We've talked about doing some more grassing work later on.

0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:35.640
<v Speaker 3>We've talked about some.

0:49:35.560 --> 0:49:38.799
<v Speaker 2>Additional green expansion back out to the greens. The plan

0:49:38.880 --> 0:49:41.800
<v Speaker 2>I gave them shows all the green expansion. Most of

0:49:41.840 --> 0:49:44.800
<v Speaker 2>the bunkers are actually intact, but there are some bunkers

0:49:44.800 --> 0:49:48.080
<v Speaker 2>that have been altered, and so they've actually got plans

0:49:48.120 --> 0:49:52.080
<v Speaker 2>for how to alter individual bunkers to get and usually

0:49:52.120 --> 0:49:55.799
<v Speaker 2>it's not the bunker, it's a missing face or a

0:49:55.880 --> 0:49:58.080
<v Speaker 2>nose that used to extend down that's now been sort

0:49:58.080 --> 0:50:02.319
<v Speaker 2>of cut off with it's just been trimmed and the

0:50:02.520 --> 0:50:06.439
<v Speaker 2>shape has been lost. So it's more about lines, it's

0:50:06.440 --> 0:50:09.160
<v Speaker 2>not about shaping. The only big thing is there used

0:50:09.160 --> 0:50:13.080
<v Speaker 2>to be a very complex arched over bunker system between

0:50:13.160 --> 0:50:16.960
<v Speaker 2>six and ten that got completely changed, and if we're

0:50:16.960 --> 0:50:19.120
<v Speaker 2>going to do it, we would do everything else and

0:50:19.160 --> 0:50:21.040
<v Speaker 2>then we would come to that and do that last.

0:50:21.560 --> 0:50:22.960
<v Speaker 2>I got admit that's the one that makes me the

0:50:23.000 --> 0:50:26.440
<v Speaker 2>most nervous of putting that back in because it's really elaborate.

0:50:26.480 --> 0:50:28.600
<v Speaker 2>I've got great photos of it, but it is not

0:50:29.960 --> 0:50:31.040
<v Speaker 2>what the ridge is there.

0:50:31.040 --> 0:50:32.400
<v Speaker 3>But everything else has changed.

0:50:32.840 --> 0:50:36.239
<v Speaker 1>So overall, this is a long term project that we're

0:50:36.239 --> 0:50:40.000
<v Speaker 1>talking about gradually over the course of the coming years.

0:50:40.239 --> 0:50:44.080
<v Speaker 2>So I would say fairways there may be another push,

0:50:44.120 --> 0:50:46.120
<v Speaker 2>but i'd say, fairways are largely done.

0:50:46.760 --> 0:50:47.960
<v Speaker 3>We've talked about a little.

0:50:47.719 --> 0:50:50.120
<v Speaker 2>Bit of tea work just to address the fact that

0:50:50.880 --> 0:50:53.759
<v Speaker 2>a couple of fives, in particular, there's abilities to go

0:50:54.239 --> 0:50:58.440
<v Speaker 2>back on even higher spots to put some of the

0:50:58.480 --> 0:50:59.440
<v Speaker 2>distances back in.

0:51:00.000 --> 0:51:00.879
<v Speaker 3>I've played so short.

0:51:01.120 --> 0:51:03.839
<v Speaker 2>To me, it plays as a long for but all

0:51:03.840 --> 0:51:05.560
<v Speaker 2>you've got to do is go back onto the next

0:51:05.640 --> 0:51:09.319
<v Speaker 2>ridge and essentially it would play the way it used

0:51:09.360 --> 0:51:11.799
<v Speaker 2>to play for distances. So we've talked about a few

0:51:11.840 --> 0:51:14.680
<v Speaker 2>teas to do a few things like that, but not

0:51:14.800 --> 0:51:15.759
<v Speaker 2>really concentrated.

0:51:15.880 --> 0:51:18.120
<v Speaker 3>We don't see that as a priority. But it's there.

0:51:18.719 --> 0:51:20.839
<v Speaker 2>But even when we've talked about it, it's just like

0:51:21.120 --> 0:51:23.279
<v Speaker 2>it's there, but it's never going to be in the

0:51:23.280 --> 0:51:26.640
<v Speaker 2>initial conversation. So it was get fescue down to stabilize

0:51:26.680 --> 0:51:30.000
<v Speaker 2>the property, and the fescues will remain, plant the trees

0:51:30.400 --> 0:51:34.600
<v Speaker 2>to slowly develop the setting. Again, we pushed the fairways out.

0:51:35.160 --> 0:51:39.200
<v Speaker 2>Teas have been recovered. Fairways have been recovered. We will

0:51:39.239 --> 0:51:42.279
<v Speaker 2>do some more sotting to expand the greens. I don't

0:51:42.280 --> 0:51:44.080
<v Speaker 2>think that's going to happen this year. I think that's

0:51:44.120 --> 0:51:46.960
<v Speaker 2>still down the way. They still have to remove a

0:51:46.960 --> 0:51:51.000
<v Speaker 2>lot of the trees that parks can want them to

0:51:51.080 --> 0:51:54.360
<v Speaker 2>keep up, essentially as wildlife habitat. But the problem is

0:51:54.400 --> 0:51:56.560
<v Speaker 2>they're all going to come down within twenty five years.

0:51:57.160 --> 0:51:59.799
<v Speaker 2>So we've entered into a dialogue of we really would

0:52:00.320 --> 0:52:03.799
<v Speaker 2>just speed that process up and plant and get the

0:52:03.840 --> 0:52:05.000
<v Speaker 2>seedlings to come faster.

0:52:06.600 --> 0:52:10.160
<v Speaker 1>When are players expected back on the course? Now, I apologize,

0:52:10.160 --> 0:52:12.319
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if they were already back there this year.

0:52:12.400 --> 0:52:14.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so August first they reopened.

0:52:14.719 --> 0:52:15.400
<v Speaker 1>Oh how about that?

0:52:15.719 --> 0:52:18.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they managed to get it all back up and play.

0:52:19.160 --> 0:52:21.240
<v Speaker 1>That's sort of miraculous, Yes.

0:52:21.120 --> 0:52:22.040
<v Speaker 3>I actually thought.

0:52:22.400 --> 0:52:27.120
<v Speaker 2>And so I don't know if it's probably not common news,

0:52:27.160 --> 0:52:28.520
<v Speaker 2>but I do know quietly.

0:52:28.680 --> 0:52:31.480
<v Speaker 3>The director of golf and the superintendent.

0:52:32.760 --> 0:52:36.640
<v Speaker 2>Played together because they're the ones who carried the weight

0:52:36.680 --> 0:52:39.520
<v Speaker 2>to get this done. So they played together a quiet

0:52:39.600 --> 0:52:41.840
<v Speaker 2>round in the afternoon, and then they had the opening

0:52:42.160 --> 0:52:45.600
<v Speaker 2>and they had one of the firemen actually hit the

0:52:45.600 --> 0:52:48.959
<v Speaker 2>the t shot, so one of the firemen from town

0:52:49.560 --> 0:52:52.640
<v Speaker 2>and opened the golf course. And they even had a

0:52:52.719 --> 0:52:57.719
<v Speaker 2>Stanley Thompson Society event there in September. So I provided

0:52:57.760 --> 0:53:02.319
<v Speaker 2>a video interview for it, but I couldn't attend. I

0:53:02.360 --> 0:53:04.680
<v Speaker 2>just was kind of stymied with the work that I

0:53:04.719 --> 0:53:05.160
<v Speaker 2>had to do.

0:53:06.800 --> 0:53:10.080
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's great, that's really good news. And the fact

0:53:10.080 --> 0:53:13.160
<v Speaker 1>that there's more work to come at at Jasper Park

0:53:13.239 --> 0:53:18.360
<v Speaker 1>to recover and improve the golf courses is tremendously heartening

0:53:18.560 --> 0:53:19.879
<v Speaker 1>after a tough year.

0:53:20.160 --> 0:53:25.200
<v Speaker 2>So my viewpoint, the golf course is fantastic to play

0:53:25.239 --> 0:53:28.680
<v Speaker 2>as it is now. Seeing the burnt trees is an

0:53:28.719 --> 0:53:31.719
<v Speaker 2>interesting dynamic, but is even when I did the walk

0:53:31.760 --> 0:53:33.920
<v Speaker 2>around after three or four holes, you actually get really used.

0:53:33.760 --> 0:53:35.160
<v Speaker 3>To it and you start to ignore it.

0:53:36.440 --> 0:53:39.279
<v Speaker 2>But what you will see in that by next year

0:53:39.400 --> 0:53:42.160
<v Speaker 2>is you'll just see some more turf improvement, even with

0:53:42.280 --> 0:53:45.360
<v Speaker 2>the recovery with the fairways, so it'll probably be in

0:53:45.440 --> 0:53:49.920
<v Speaker 2>pretty good shape. I mean, they had an invasive species

0:53:49.920 --> 0:53:53.200
<v Speaker 2>in the fairways, so there are always small silver linings.

0:53:53.200 --> 0:53:55.240
<v Speaker 3>We got the views back that we had lost.

0:53:55.280 --> 0:53:58.040
<v Speaker 2>We got the greens that were always struggling now have

0:53:58.360 --> 0:54:01.640
<v Speaker 2>full sunlight. And the problem they had with some of

0:54:01.680 --> 0:54:04.000
<v Speaker 2>the turf grass actually most of it got burned away,

0:54:04.520 --> 0:54:06.680
<v Speaker 2>so it's funny it didn't survive the burn very well.

0:54:06.719 --> 0:54:09.799
<v Speaker 2>So we actually have a I think Glenn's fairways are

0:54:09.800 --> 0:54:11.360
<v Speaker 2>actually in better shape, but I would say two to

0:54:11.360 --> 0:54:14.239
<v Speaker 2>three years from now, you'll start to see actually the

0:54:14.239 --> 0:54:18.400
<v Speaker 2>initial recovery, but the outside will now be fascued some

0:54:18.440 --> 0:54:19.640
<v Speaker 2>really gorgeous rescues.

0:54:20.800 --> 0:54:21.560
<v Speaker 3>We rescued.

0:54:22.200 --> 0:54:25.120
<v Speaker 2>I think it was one hundred and thirty acres, so

0:54:25.320 --> 0:54:29.480
<v Speaker 2>that's a lot of hydroceating. So I just think it's there,

0:54:29.560 --> 0:54:32.520
<v Speaker 2>ready to be played and ready to be enjoyed. And

0:54:33.120 --> 0:54:35.160
<v Speaker 2>I hope we can do a little bit of restorative

0:54:35.200 --> 0:54:40.759
<v Speaker 2>work over the next ten years and then just let

0:54:40.800 --> 0:54:44.560
<v Speaker 2>it go, let it evolve back to what it was.

0:54:44.680 --> 0:54:46.600
<v Speaker 1>Well, thank you for coming on the podcast. Ian. It

0:54:46.640 --> 0:54:49.440
<v Speaker 1>was great to hear the story about Jasper Park, and

0:54:49.560 --> 0:54:51.120
<v Speaker 1>good luck with the project moving forward.

0:54:51.640 --> 0:54:52.399
<v Speaker 3>Thank you very much.

0:54:52.440 --> 0:54:56.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad you guys are really interested Jasper. I was

0:54:56.480 --> 0:55:00.960
<v Speaker 2>asked about twenty years ago, where would you play your

0:55:01.000 --> 0:55:03.960
<v Speaker 2>last round of golf if you determine that you can

0:55:04.040 --> 0:55:06.959
<v Speaker 2>only play one more round, and my pick was Jasper Park.

0:55:07.000 --> 0:55:09.600
<v Speaker 2>Then it's Jasper Park. Now it would be Jasper Park

0:55:09.640 --> 0:55:13.040
<v Speaker 2>tomorrow morning. It is my single favorite place to play

0:55:13.040 --> 0:55:13.840
<v Speaker 2>a round of golf.

0:55:15.239 --> 0:55:25.399
<v Speaker 1>Thanks Ian. This episode of Designing Golf was produced by

0:55:25.440 --> 0:55:30.400
<v Speaker 1>Will Balsam. Thank you Will. If you've been enjoying Designing Golf,

0:55:30.440 --> 0:55:32.759
<v Speaker 1>then I can just about guarantee that you would love

0:55:32.880 --> 0:55:36.239
<v Speaker 1>what we're doing in Frida Egg Golf Club. That's Frida

0:55:36.280 --> 0:55:39.840
<v Speaker 1>Egg Golf's membership. Go to the Frida Egg dot com

0:55:39.920 --> 0:55:43.040
<v Speaker 1>slash membership to see more about it. One of the

0:55:43.080 --> 0:55:45.640
<v Speaker 1>things that we deliver in Frida Egg Golf Club is

0:55:45.719 --> 0:55:50.680
<v Speaker 1>regular in depth course profiles and regular updates on happenings

0:55:50.719 --> 0:55:55.280
<v Speaker 1>in golf architecture. So if you're a designing golf listener

0:55:55.480 --> 0:55:59.399
<v Speaker 1>you've been liking these episodes, then this will be your

0:55:59.480 --> 0:56:01.960
<v Speaker 1>kind of stuff, so make sure to check that out.

0:56:02.040 --> 0:56:05.200
<v Speaker 1>We also do fun stuff like a whole design contest

0:56:05.520 --> 0:56:08.400
<v Speaker 1>where the winning hole will actually get built at a

0:56:08.440 --> 0:56:11.640
<v Speaker 1>real golf course. That's ongoing right now. We've just gotten

0:56:11.680 --> 0:56:14.400
<v Speaker 1>all of our submissions. There's some really cool stuff and

0:56:14.440 --> 0:56:17.600
<v Speaker 1>we're about to go through the judging process for that.

0:56:17.719 --> 0:56:20.359
<v Speaker 1>So if you participated in that, thank you very much

0:56:20.840 --> 0:56:24.200
<v Speaker 1>and thanks for being part of Friday Golf Club. We're

0:56:24.239 --> 0:56:27.000
<v Speaker 1>really enjoying it in there all right, Thank you for listening,

0:56:27.360 --> 0:56:38.560
<v Speaker 1>and we'll be back again soon with another episode.