1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,520
Speaker 1: The golf course at Fairmont Jasper Park Lodge in Alberta,

2
00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:09,080
Speaker 1: Canada is among the most stunning golf courses in the world. Certainly,

3
00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,960
Speaker 1: it's one of the key designs of the great Canadian

4
00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,600
Speaker 1: architect Stanley Thompson. So I was really sad to hear

5
00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,440
Speaker 1: last year that the lodge, the golf course, and the

6
00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:24,640
Speaker 1: town that's nearby were badly damaged by a wildfire. So

7
00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,320
Speaker 1: I've been eager for a while to get an update

8
00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,400
Speaker 1: on how Jasper Park is doing, and that's what's happening

9
00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,960
Speaker 1: in today's episode. I'm talking with Ian Andrew, who is

10
00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,920
Speaker 1: an accomplished golf architect as well as the world's leading

11
00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:43,640
Speaker 1: authority on Stanley Thompson. Very likely, Ian is currently working

12
00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,519
Speaker 1: with Jasper Park to bring the golf course back to

13
00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,960
Speaker 1: its full strength, so I'm excited to talk with him

14
00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,440
Speaker 1: about that process as well as get into the history

15
00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:59,560
Speaker 1: and architecture of Jasper Park. I'm Garrett Morrison and this

16
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:08,440
Speaker 1: is Design Golf. Hey, so one quick note before we

17
00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:12,360
Speaker 1: get started here. When I started the conversation with Ian,

18
00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,520
Speaker 1: his mike was sort of rubbing against the collar of

19
00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,280
Speaker 1: his sweatshirt, and so that's what you'll hear in the

20
00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,880
Speaker 1: first few minutes of this podcast a little bit of

21
00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,800
Speaker 1: wrestling that does not continue throughout the interview. We sorted

22
00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,080
Speaker 1: out the problem, just wanted to let you know about that.

23
00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,959
Speaker 1: So for those who are not familiar with Jasper Park,

24
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,399
Speaker 1: maybe non Canadians out there, where is this course and

25
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,440
Speaker 1: what is some of the basic top line information we

26
00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:42,200
Speaker 1: should know about it.

27
00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:48,800
Speaker 2: So Jasper Park is in Jasper National Park and it's

28
00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:50,520
Speaker 2: west of Edmonton by four hours.

29
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,600
Speaker 3: It's north of Beef Springs.

30
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:57,640
Speaker 2: By probably the greatest four hour drive in Canada. If

31
00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,360
Speaker 2: you're going to see one or the other both ideally both.

32
00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 2: It is the single best drive you'll ever find. It's

33
00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,200
Speaker 2: through the rocky mountains and it's glaciers all the way,

34
00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,000
Speaker 2: so it's quite spectacular. It was a course built in

35
00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,720
Speaker 2: a national park. So one of the interesting things is

36
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,680
Speaker 2: two of our greatest golf courses were built by railroads

37
00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:24,480
Speaker 2: as destinations. And so what you've got is you've got

38
00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,200
Speaker 2: with CP, you've got bamp Springs and with CN you've

39
00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,480
Speaker 2: got Jasper National Park. So they took over a project

40
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,640
Speaker 2: that was kind of middling along, and then.

41
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:38,960
Speaker 3: What happened was.

42
00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,280
Speaker 2: They end up sort of revisiting it a couple of times,

43
00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,880
Speaker 2: and then finally with Stanley Thompson, they built the eighteen

44
00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:44,880
Speaker 2: holes that we know today.

45
00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:49,000
Speaker 1: So there's a small town called Jasper near the lodge. Right,

46
00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,320
Speaker 1: you have the Jasper Park Lodge, you have the Jasper

47
00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,119
Speaker 1: Park golf course, and then the town of Jasper. What's

48
00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:54,480
Speaker 1: that like.

49
00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:55,760
Speaker 3: Jasper is a small town.

50
00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,520
Speaker 2: I actually can't tell you the population, but if I

51
00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,200
Speaker 2: was going to give it a guess, maybe something as

52
00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,440
Speaker 2: much as sort of three thousand to four thousand people,

53
00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:07,880
Speaker 2: might be as much as five Actually, now I think

54
00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,960
Speaker 2: about it, and it's really the support system not only

55
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,000
Speaker 2: for Jasper Park Lodge, which is not in town, it's

56
00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,440
Speaker 2: just outside of town, but it's also a support system

57
00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,240
Speaker 2: as well for Jasper National Park. So a lot of

58
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,480
Speaker 2: people live there and then usually end up working with either.

59
00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,200
Speaker 2: There's a series of resorts and hotels and restaurants in town.

60
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,240
Speaker 2: Fabulous town. I'd highly recommend it as a destination. And

61
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,600
Speaker 2: then a lot of people also work with the Jasper

62
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:37,360
Speaker 2: Park Lodge.

63
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:42,440
Speaker 1: So, before we get deeper into the courses architecture in

64
00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:47,920
Speaker 1: the history, what happened in Jasper and Jasper National Park

65
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:48,839
Speaker 1: last year?

66
00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,360
Speaker 2: So last year, there was a wildfire, and the wildfire

67
00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:58,119
Speaker 2: started up I think near Athabasca Falls, if I'm not mistaken,

68
00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,280
Speaker 2: and it was a lightning strike. And one of the

69
00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,880
Speaker 2: things that's taken place a lot out west is pine

70
00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:10,480
Speaker 2: beetle has decimated the forests, and so I would say

71
00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:16,679
Speaker 2: a third or more of the forest was actually dead.

72
00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:23,240
Speaker 2: So if you can imagine pine beetle decimated the area,

73
00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,280
Speaker 2: then you've got all that canopy that's.

74
00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:33,160
Speaker 3: In the park that's dried out. And so what.

75
00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,560
Speaker 2: Happened when during a very dry period they had lightning

76
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,720
Speaker 2: strike that set the area of blaze.

77
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,360
Speaker 3: The area started to burn.

78
00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,640
Speaker 2: Very quickly, and unfortunately for them when this took place,

79
00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,440
Speaker 2: it was I think thirty forty one hour winds. The

80
00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,159
Speaker 2: winds actually got stronger over time, is the wildflower of

81
00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,240
Speaker 2: fire began to burn.

82
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:55,279
Speaker 3: Its way towards Jasper.

83
00:04:55,320 --> 00:05:01,880
Speaker 2: So essentially it started up the Athabasca River valley and

84
00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:07,159
Speaker 2: sort of pushed its way towards Jasper town site. I

85
00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,520
Speaker 2: think what caught us all a little off guard was

86
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,400
Speaker 2: it ended up burning. If I'll apologize if I got

87
00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,760
Speaker 2: this wrong, but I think it's about forty thousand square miles.

88
00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,080
Speaker 2: But as it pushed its way up the valley. Everybody

89
00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,039
Speaker 2: just kind of assumed at some point they would gain

90
00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,040
Speaker 2: control over it, and it just got worse and worse

91
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,120
Speaker 2: because the winds were so high, and then it ended

92
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,400
Speaker 2: up burning its way to the golf course. Fortunately for

93
00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,040
Speaker 2: the golf course, it ended up actually protecting the resort,

94
00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:40,680
Speaker 2: and they kind of made us stand.

95
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:41,760
Speaker 3: At the resort because it's.

96
00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:48,960
Speaker 2: Very historically important resort, and they made us stand at

97
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,760
Speaker 2: the town site. But about thirty five to town Goup.

98
00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:55,680
Speaker 3: Burnt.

99
00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:01,359
Speaker 2: So Jasperin is in recovery mode. A good example is

100
00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,719
Speaker 2: the superintendent lost his house, the director of golf didn't.

101
00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,080
Speaker 2: And that's one of the things about this event is

102
00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:16,760
Speaker 2: one family survived it, nobody's unscathed. That's sort of the

103
00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,640
Speaker 2: point I was going to make with this is you've

104
00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:24,400
Speaker 2: got families who have managed to still have their houses

105
00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,719
Speaker 2: standing just because of where they happen to be in town.

106
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,359
Speaker 2: And then you've got people they work with, their friends

107
00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,400
Speaker 2: or family who have lost their house or their residents,

108
00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,480
Speaker 2: or their or their business. And so everybody who has

109
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,840
Speaker 2: any connection to jasper is just sort of devastated, because

110
00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,599
Speaker 2: you know, everybody I know.

111
00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,760
Speaker 3: It's sort of a fifty to fifty. It's just a.

112
00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,479
Speaker 2: Flip them on whether things worked out or didn't. But

113
00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,320
Speaker 2: it didn't matter. Everybody's still heartbroken. I think some people

114
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,840
Speaker 2: are more heartbroken who've actually not lost anything, because they

115
00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,520
Speaker 2: feel it's sort of the survivor's guilt.

116
00:06:59,240 --> 00:06:59,800
Speaker 3: That comes with that.

117
00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,200
Speaker 2: So with the golf course, the golf course got burnt

118
00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,200
Speaker 2: in the process. The one thing that happened was where

119
00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,599
Speaker 2: you've got all that timber, it was burning so hot.

120
00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,960
Speaker 2: And I'm going to sort of jump ahead a little bit,

121
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,440
Speaker 2: but it burnt so hot that you actually, rather than

122
00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,160
Speaker 2: burning the pine cones and opening them up for regeneration,

123
00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:24,320
Speaker 2: it's actually burnt so hot that it's actually decimated the

124
00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,240
Speaker 2: pine cones too, so there's nothing to regenerate. So there's

125
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,120
Speaker 2: a place a much further up where you can go

126
00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,880
Speaker 2: where you can see regeneration, and beside it you can

127
00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,840
Speaker 2: see areas of no regeneration. What that is is if

128
00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,400
Speaker 2: fires get too hot, there's no regeneration anymore. We've actually

129
00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,480
Speaker 2: got that on the golf course. We've got both further

130
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,720
Speaker 2: from the golf course where it burnt around on the mountain,

131
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,840
Speaker 2: there's one of my favorite places for hiking short hike

132
00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:51,920
Speaker 2: is Malin Canyon.

133
00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:52,840
Speaker 3: Malign Canyon.

134
00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,160
Speaker 2: Everything is burnt, everything is blown over, there's not a

135
00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 2: tree standing, and it will not regenerate because there's nothing left.

136
00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,880
Speaker 2: So it's actually soil and everything's washed into the canyon

137
00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:05,800
Speaker 2: where all the walkways and everything are.

138
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:07,720
Speaker 3: So this is sort of what happened.

139
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:12,600
Speaker 2: You've got spots where it's decimated the burn where you're

140
00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,400
Speaker 2: not going to even get regeneration. This was a learning

141
00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,040
Speaker 2: curve for me over the last little while.

142
00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:18,280
Speaker 3: And then you've got.

143
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,480
Speaker 2: Other areas where the golf course, for example, it burnt

144
00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,400
Speaker 2: into the golf course but never got hot enough to

145
00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,520
Speaker 2: other than burning the trees down. It didn't get hot

146
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,320
Speaker 2: enough to.

147
00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,080
Speaker 3: Decimate the cones. But the other thing is.

148
00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:37,720
Speaker 2: Also started to reduce the fire and so it wasn't

149
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,640
Speaker 2: burning as hot, it wasn't traveling as easy. It actually

150
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:42,800
Speaker 2: made it easy for them to make a stand. So

151
00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,360
Speaker 2: there are buildings burnt in Jasper Park Lodge, there's four

152
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,760
Speaker 2: or five buildings burnt, but they were able to save

153
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:50,440
Speaker 2: the lodge and they were able to save the majority

154
00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,960
Speaker 2: of it. So essentially, it's funny we think about golf

155
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:59,000
Speaker 2: and get all golf centric, but the great thing is

156
00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,240
Speaker 2: a golf course. When it burns, it's not a big deal.

157
00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,880
Speaker 2: It's just the trace. The ground is still the ground,

158
00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:05,360
Speaker 2: The golf course is still the golf course, and you

159
00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,640
Speaker 2: can have turf up and going and everything up and

160
00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,320
Speaker 2: going very.

161
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:11,440
Speaker 3: Quickly, which they did.

162
00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,360
Speaker 2: The only thing that's interesting was all the theater systems

163
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,839
Speaker 2: at Jasper Park are all above ground, so that all

164
00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,800
Speaker 2: got burnt, so there's no supply lines anymore, and that's

165
00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,559
Speaker 2: sort of something they're working on now. So it's sort

166
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,120
Speaker 2: of a long explanation, but that sort of gives you.

167
00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:29,959
Speaker 2: When I went there, I went there three weeks after

168
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,800
Speaker 2: the fire and the heart The hardest part for me

169
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,280
Speaker 2: was I couldn't like I was seeing burnt coming on

170
00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,400
Speaker 2: the way in, and I had a very specific way.

171
00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,520
Speaker 2: I was given a one day pass by Parks Canada

172
00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,960
Speaker 2: to go and review it with Fairmont, and I couldn't

173
00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,760
Speaker 2: bring myself to go anywhere near the town site because

174
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:51,600
Speaker 2: I knew what had happened over.

175
00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:52,280
Speaker 3: On the town site.

176
00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,480
Speaker 2: And even when I stayed there in the spring, it's

177
00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:56,600
Speaker 2: devastating to be there.

178
00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,400
Speaker 3: You just feel you feel bad for the people.

179
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:03,280
Speaker 2: And my wife and I have been to Jasper six

180
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,160
Speaker 2: or seven times, and we hike there outside of playing

181
00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,559
Speaker 2: golf as well, and it's just hard to not go

182
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,320
Speaker 2: there and feel for the people. So we go there.

183
00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:16,360
Speaker 2: I've been there in the spring, and we'll go there

184
00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,160
Speaker 2: again just to try and support the town.

185
00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,320
Speaker 1: Let's go from there. What's going on at Jasper Park

186
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,920
Speaker 1: right now? And rewind a little bit, go back in history.

187
00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,840
Speaker 1: How did the development of the Jasper Park Lodge and

188
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,199
Speaker 1: golf course initially come about?

189
00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,440
Speaker 2: So the railroads were looking for destinations and they built

190
00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,760
Speaker 2: places for people to like. They wanted to build some

191
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,280
Speaker 2: places for people to go to. So that's how you

192
00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,680
Speaker 2: got Bamp Springs, That's how you got Jasper Park Lodge.

193
00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,079
Speaker 3: So Bam Springs is Canadian.

194
00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:57,720
Speaker 2: Pacific Railway, Jasper Park Lodge is a Canadian National Railway.

195
00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,600
Speaker 2: Two very competitive railways, and that actually plays out in

196
00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:02,600
Speaker 2: the long run even.

197
00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:03,360
Speaker 3: With the golf courses.

198
00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,840
Speaker 2: So they had built the lodge first, but you're trying

199
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,480
Speaker 2: to give people a reasona co mode there. So with

200
00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:15,240
Speaker 2: Jasper Park Lodge, you've got voting, with Lake Bovert, you've

201
00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,920
Speaker 2: got hiking that you can do. But adding a golf

202
00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,840
Speaker 2: course to that created a destination.

203
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:22,520
Speaker 3: So they hired.

204
00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,760
Speaker 2: Stanley Thompson and he built them essentially a destination golf course.

205
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,440
Speaker 1: And what is Stanley Thompson's stature in the history of

206
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,040
Speaker 1: golf architecture, Just so people who maybe haven't experiences courses

207
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:34,800
Speaker 1: have an idea of who he is.

208
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,320
Speaker 2: If you're asking me to give you a list of

209
00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:42,600
Speaker 2: sort of the fundamental seven to ten golf course architects

210
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:47,720
Speaker 2: that shape golf course architectural history, ignoring the immediate times,

211
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:52,480
Speaker 2: I would put Stanley Thompson on that list. Very Canadian

212
00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:57,199
Speaker 2: centric career, great architect. Anybody who's gone out to see

213
00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,920
Speaker 2: any of one of I've always referred to them as

214
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,760
Speaker 2: Big five Cape Breton Highlands now known to Highland Links,

215
00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:10,280
Speaker 2: Saint George's in Toronto Private Club, Jasper Banff, and then Capilano.

216
00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,040
Speaker 2: If you've seen those five golf courses, you'll know why

217
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,960
Speaker 2: he's revered by all architects current past. His peers in

218
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,719
Speaker 2: particular as well, all held him in high regard. He

219
00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,840
Speaker 2: was just sort of the greatest architect in Canada has

220
00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,600
Speaker 2: ever had, and it's going to take a lot for

221
00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,200
Speaker 2: somebody else to knock him off that pedestal. He's the

222
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:36,240
Speaker 2: prime influence for anybody. He's a Canadian architect. Scale, it

223
00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,880
Speaker 2: was just a master with scale. But one of his

224
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:45,960
Speaker 2: great secrets was extremely well read man and understood the

225
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,720
Speaker 2: whole concept of borrowed scenery. So I think that was

226
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,680
Speaker 2: capability Brown if I remember correctly, and he had taken

227
00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,800
Speaker 2: that essentially and probably applied that better than any other

228
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,200
Speaker 2: architect in history, and I do include every architect and current.

229
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,760
Speaker 2: I think he was the master of all masters when

230
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,280
Speaker 2: it came to borrowed scenery.

231
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,120
Speaker 1: Well, I'd like to eventually get into how he used

232
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,880
Speaker 1: that concept at Jasper Park. But first of all, what

233
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,440
Speaker 1: are some of the specifics of the property at Jasper Park?

234
00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,640
Speaker 1: And then how did Thompson route the golf course through it?

235
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:26,160
Speaker 2: So it's a surprisingly rolling piece of land. So what

236
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,120
Speaker 2: he did was he essentially on the front nine worked

237
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:35,080
Speaker 2: his way very quickly out to a valley. And so

238
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,520
Speaker 2: that valley kind of is a prominent spot you keep

239
00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,120
Speaker 2: coming back to. So you get there for three, four,

240
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,240
Speaker 2: you play out of it in five, but you play

241
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,880
Speaker 2: kind of back into it on six. There's a step

242
00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,520
Speaker 2: in the land that he goes and uses for seven, eight,

243
00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,160
Speaker 2: nine up top, which is the famous shot for Cleopatra

244
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,960
Speaker 2: coming back to the valley, but ten is back in

245
00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,839
Speaker 2: the valley, eleven is playing out of the valley. And

246
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:01,720
Speaker 2: then what he does he takes you to a spot

247
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,520
Speaker 2: called Lake Bovart, and so thirteenth is a par five

248
00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:09,079
Speaker 2: that kind of tumbles down to it. Anybody who's seen

249
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,600
Speaker 2: a picture of Jasper National Park or j Park golf

250
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,120
Speaker 2: Course has seen the tea shot on fourteen, which is

251
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,160
Speaker 2: over Lake Bovart, Bad Baby, the little par three plays

252
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,440
Speaker 2: along it, and then sixteen again on the approach shot

253
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 2: plays over it. Now you on seventeen, it's on your

254
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,160
Speaker 2: left the whole way, which you never knew it was

255
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,480
Speaker 2: there because of all the pine trees, and it's actually

256
00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,880
Speaker 2: on the left of eighteen across the road where but

257
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,680
Speaker 2: essentially he worked around those features.

258
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,160
Speaker 3: So he's found the valleys and he's found.

259
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,000
Speaker 2: Sort of steps in the land that he's used within

260
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,680
Speaker 2: the routing. But there's a really tremendous amount of elevation

261
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,000
Speaker 2: change on the golf course. The holes have got some

262
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,440
Speaker 2: pretty regular drops, and then of course you get out

263
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:57,800
Speaker 2: to Cleopatra and you've got that incredible te shot where

264
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:00,440
Speaker 2: from the tee to the back of the and when

265
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,200
Speaker 2: I say the back of the green, the fall off

266
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:03,480
Speaker 2: of the back of the green, it's got to be

267
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,280
Speaker 2: about seventy feet the fall.

268
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:06,520
Speaker 3: Off of the back of the green. I thinks eighteen

269
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:07,160
Speaker 3: feet alone.

270
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,520
Speaker 1: So and when you say Cleopatra, that's the name of

271
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,000
Speaker 1: one of the holes, right, yes, it is. I'm curious

272
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,600
Speaker 1: right away as to where the name Cleopatra for this

273
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:17,360
Speaker 1: hole came from.

274
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,920
Speaker 2: So this has been a fascinating revelation for me because

275
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:26,640
Speaker 2: it's there's nothing worse than working hard with researching history

276
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,160
Speaker 2: and then disproving something and then running into something that

277
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:35,360
Speaker 2: appears to reprove something. So with Cleopatra, when he built

278
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:36,880
Speaker 2: the hole, originally.

279
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,000
Speaker 3: The description was it was.

280
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,240
Speaker 2: Like a naked woman reclining on the ground, and I

281
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 2: always thought that that was I don't know if I

282
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,400
Speaker 2: can swear or not, but BS. Anyway, let's call it BS.

283
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,040
Speaker 2: So there's definitely a right side mound, left side mound.

284
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:58,640
Speaker 3: You've definitely got an advantage.

285
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,040
Speaker 2: There's a ground option to play on this long part

286
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,840
Speaker 2: of three between the two hillocks, and it is the

287
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,480
Speaker 2: ideal way to play. Your perfect way to play the

288
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,920
Speaker 2: whole is actually it's over two hundred yard hole, but

289
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,440
Speaker 2: your perfect shot is about one seventy five and let

290
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,720
Speaker 2: it feed and it's it's foolproof if you find the slot.

291
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,720
Speaker 3: So it's I always kind of looked.

292
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,960
Speaker 2: At that and kind of went, yeah, okay, sure, maybe

293
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,120
Speaker 2: it was named after the fact that it just happened

294
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,840
Speaker 2: to look that way. But I got an image sent

295
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,480
Speaker 2: to me by Perry Cooper, who is a former superintendent,

296
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:35,920
Speaker 2: and it's got a pond in front of the hole.

297
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,920
Speaker 2: And if you've ever seen the hole, there's no way

298
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:43,600
Speaker 2: your brain can get anything to tell you that there

299
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 2: was any way there was any sort of pond in front.

300
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:51,440
Speaker 2: It's triangular shaped, it's very small and very deep, and

301
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:57,760
Speaker 2: it would be incredibly well placed. So god, yeah, I know,

302
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,160
Speaker 2: and I didn't know. I honestly didn't know what to

303
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,440
Speaker 2: do with this when. But the part I couldn't understand

304
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,640
Speaker 2: was when it was. And then finally I was able

305
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,640
Speaker 2: to sort of figure out it was early on Hull

306
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,560
Speaker 2: was renovated. We'll touch on that that Thompson built Jasper

307
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:21,360
Speaker 2: Park and then built bamp The people involved with Jasper

308
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,960
Speaker 2: could clearly tell that BAMF was a better golf course,

309
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:26,600
Speaker 2: and what it was was he had learned a lot

310
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,400
Speaker 2: of lessons while he'd gone out on this grand scale

311
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,000
Speaker 2: trying to fit the site.

312
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:33,720
Speaker 3: Larger greens, larger fairways.

313
00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,200
Speaker 2: Clearing was over one and a half times normal, close

314
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,320
Speaker 2: to almost one point eight the width of everything he'd

315
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,560
Speaker 2: done before that scale was great.

316
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:43,600
Speaker 3: Other than the fact.

317
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,879
Speaker 2: That when you look at those photos from I've got

318
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:46,919
Speaker 2: all the opening day photos.

319
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,360
Speaker 3: When you look at those photos, the.

320
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 2: One thing is people look incredibly small. They're kind of

321
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,479
Speaker 2: dwarfed by the setting. He cleared it all out to

322
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 2: make use of what you see in the mountains. But

323
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,399
Speaker 2: what happened was there's human scale to the golf course.

324
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:07,199
Speaker 2: He goes to do bamf right afterwards, he clears the

325
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:12,000
Speaker 2: same ws but not quite as wide. But what he

326
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 2: does is he takes his greens back down to more

327
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,000
Speaker 2: of a let's say, sort of the six to eight

328
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,600
Speaker 2: range instead of sort of the eight to ten range.

329
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,240
Speaker 2: Takes his greens down. What he does is he breaks

330
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 2: up all his bunkers. When he's got larger bunkers, he

331
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 2: does very elaborate forms with the bunkers rather than these big, large,

332
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,640
Speaker 2: simple forms on a massive scale. And what he does

333
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,679
Speaker 2: is he breaks up the bunkers either by numbers or

334
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,760
Speaker 2: by details to put human scale back in the golf course.

335
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,480
Speaker 2: And what happens with the golf course is because it's

336
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,960
Speaker 2: in human scale, it just absolutely works.

337
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,639
Speaker 3: It is a.

338
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,919
Speaker 2: Masterclass in how to deal with a grand scale with

339
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,400
Speaker 2: enough details not to lose the person within the scale.

340
00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:01,480
Speaker 2: That everything feels within a scale we can understand. And immediately,

341
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 2: of course, what happens with cn is they look at

342
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,000
Speaker 2: that and they go that golf course is way more

343
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,320
Speaker 2: interesting than ours, even though we've got a better property.

344
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 2: Jasper Park is a better property in than BAMP. It's

345
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:17,360
Speaker 2: not even a question. And what they did was come

346
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,960
Speaker 2: back and he did a bunker renovation. And the bunker

347
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 2: renovation was to put bays and fingers and noses, even

348
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,120
Speaker 2: the occasional island, and to put details in. So it's

349
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 2: still got the grand scale, but it's got more human details.

350
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 2: And what it did was it collapse the scale to

351
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,560
Speaker 2: a point that people felt more comfortable within it. And

352
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 2: what it did was the clearing still works. And the

353
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 2: views are better than BAMP. It's actually got better views

354
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,560
Speaker 2: than BAMF when it comes to the mountains. And the

355
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,440
Speaker 2: golf course is rooted around the idea of every whole

356
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,120
Speaker 2: points to a different mountain range, and even the whole

357
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 2: names identified that that's what he's doing with the routing.

358
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,280
Speaker 2: But what it does is there's enough reduction in the

359
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 2: scale to me it could feel comfortable as a player,

360
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,880
Speaker 2: and it brings you back to the space comfortably. And

361
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 2: it's a double masterclass and sort of one is just showing,

362
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,480
Speaker 2: holy crap, I just figured this out, and the other

363
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,960
Speaker 2: one is I can do all these things, and I

364
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,200
Speaker 2: can make something that wasn't working to scale come to scale.

365
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 1: That's a really interesting application of the idea of scale

366
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 1: in golf course construction, because how I'm processing this idea

367
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:37,200
Speaker 1: is that in Jasper Park and Banff Springs, Thompson had

368
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:43,800
Speaker 1: properties with a lot of natural massive scale, not only

369
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,399
Speaker 1: in the interior of the property, especially at Jasper, but

370
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 1: also in the views around the property, the big mountains

371
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 1: that you could see that scale of those properties and

372
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 1: their surroundings overwhelmed humans, right, yes, And so I guess

373
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 1: part of what these golf course features could do. The

374
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 1: features that Thompson apparently learned how to build at BAMF

375
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,160
Speaker 1: kind of with more detail and more of the human

376
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,360
Speaker 1: scale to them, is that they kind of serve as

377
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 1: an intermediary between the massive scale of the property and

378
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 1: its surroundings and the humans playing the golf course, so

379
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,239
Speaker 1: that the humans feel like they can relate to this

380
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 1: property right. They kind of serve as a way to

381
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 1: let golfers into the property and not make them feel

382
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,360
Speaker 1: like they're just being overwhelmed by all this massiveness.

383
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,880
Speaker 2: I remember, I think it was Jeff Cornish or either

384
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 2: that or I found a quote that the talked about

385
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 2: Stanley Thompson wanting people at VAMP to pay attention to

386
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 2: the golf course, to not just look at the mountains.

387
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 2: You know, whether that's ego driven or just driven by

388
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 2: common sense, but the idea is he had to do enough.

389
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 3: He had to put enough bunker.

390
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 2: There's a lot more bunkering at Bamp Springs, and there's,

391
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,680
Speaker 2: as I said, a lot more detailing. There's also much

392
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 2: stronger carry angles in some cases, sort of like Monterey

393
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 2: Peninsula Short Course, where Mike Strands is given an enormous scale,

394
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 2: and the sort of the genius in what Mike did

395
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:34,199
Speaker 2: there was he swung the fairways so wide that it

396
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 2: filled the space so it didn't get out of context,

397
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 2: and then went with bunkering big enough.

398
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 3: Well.

399
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 2: Stanley did this back in twenty seven to twenty eight.

400
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: He created wide swings with the fairways, but he filled

401
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 2: it with bunkering. At bamp he did do some swings

402
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 2: with the fairways, but not as wild, and he kept

403
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 2: the bunkering more so to the side at Jasper, and

404
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,360
Speaker 2: one of the lessons from it was to go more

405
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 2: aggressive with the swings when he went in to bamf.

406
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 2: What was interesting was when he made he did make

407
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 2: some changes to Jasper how it was bunkered, and he

408
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 2: came back.

409
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 3: As well after the war.

410
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 2: And that's the fascinating part for me was this is

411
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 2: recent knowledge for me, but the whole back of the

412
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 2: eleventh Green, which is really wild with its elaborate mounding

413
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 2: and the back of five, has actually.

414
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 3: Done post World War two.

415
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 2: He continued to make changes and add more bunkering to

416
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 2: it to try and get things moving framing.

417
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 3: So he actually did.

418
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 2: He did quite a bit of work to Jasper after

419
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 2: the fact as well, just adding more to bring your

420
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 2: eye to the fairways, to the greens to golf. So

421
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that he continued on post World War

422
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 2: two in making some adjustments. So I knew stuff happened,

423
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 2: I just didn't know the dates till talent and found

424
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 2: a report and I got a chance to read that report,

425
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 2: and it was full of new news for me.

426
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 1: This episode of Designing Golf is brought to you by

427
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 1: the USGA Green Section. Success on the course starts with

428
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: the right information. The USGA Green Section Record keeps you

429
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: connected with the latest turf research, management strategies, and regional updates,

430
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,959
Speaker 1: all for free. Now I'm a reader of the USGA

431
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: Green Section Record, I think it's a really excellent publication

432
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,959
Speaker 1: and it lets me know what's going on in the

433
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: world of agronomy and the world of golf course management.

434
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: It's just an excellent regular update on that industry, which

435
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: I think overall is somewhat undercovered in media. So I

436
00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: can personally recommend the USGA Green Section Record. And if

437
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 1: you pair that with the USGA Moisture Meter, for instance,

438
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: soil data that integrates seamlessly with the Deacon system, then

439
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: you're really cooking with gas. So from insights to action,

440
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: the USGA Green Section helps you manage smarter, Subscribe and

441
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: learn more at USGA dot org slash course Care. Again,

442
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: that's the USGA dot org slash course care all right,

443
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: let's get back to the episode. You've mentioned a couple

444
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: of times the concept of borrowed scenery.

445
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 3: M h.

446
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: How does that idea show up in the design of

447
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: Jasper Park.

448
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 2: So the super cool part about Jasper is it's got

449
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 2: a whole series of peaks, and it's also got a

450
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 2: series of ranges, and every hole lines up with either

451
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 2: a range or an individual peak. So Pyramid Mountain is

452
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: one of the most dominating mountains for all of Jasper, and.

453
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 3: Part of it's the color.

454
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 2: It's a reddish hue, which is unusual for all the

455
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 2: mountains around there, and so it really stands out and

456
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: when you stand on eleven t the backdrop is absolutely

457
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: spot on. So I know one of the things I

458
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 2: said when I was talking to Talon about it, because

459
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 2: we ended up in a conversation about it a while ago,

460
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 2: is I believe he had an idea what he was

461
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 2: doing on that, and I think what happened was occasionally

462
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 2: he realized as he's cleared the hole out that if

463
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 2: he shifted something, because if you look at some of

464
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 2: the clearing lines, there's sort of a wabble to a

465
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: few of the clearing lines. So if that's your clearing line,

466
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 2: there's all of a sudden, a little wobble and it's

467
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 2: set over there. And I think what he did was

468
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 2: he just moved a few things around to get a

469
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 2: few things to line up. But he also didn't look

470
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 2: directly at the peaks, like that wasn't the game he

471
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: was playing. He wanted to identify what he was sharing.

472
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: So to Caracut, it's not a lot look at the peaks.

473
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 2: It's off to your side. Same with old Man coming

474
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: down too. Old Man's actually up to your left. But

475
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: there's no question when you look over knowing that the

476
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 2: old Man is a face, and some feel it's an

477
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 2: Indian head. There's sort of different views on what it is,

478
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 2: but it's clear as day, and it's just.

479
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 3: The way the rock is.

480
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 2: It's the colors of the rock produce this wonderful face

481
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: with obviously the shape. You clearly see the nose and

482
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: it's got really angular nose features, but it almost looks

483
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 2: like a human head. It's wild, but he gives that

484
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 2: to you at an off angle. But there's no question

485
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 2: when you stand looking at the second shot, looking at

486
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 2: what you've got to do, everything's feeding towards the left,

487
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 2: and when you let your eye wander out there, it is,

488
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 2: and so you wander up, you can't miss it. And

489
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: I remember playing there not knowing about it. I was

490
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 2: immediately drawn up to that ridgeline and eventually to that

491
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,479
Speaker 2: specific shape.

492
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: So it's not just a matter of like pointing golf

493
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: holes at certain mountain ranges. It's about kind of varying

494
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: the perspective in the line through which he might see

495
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: at one of these borrowed scenery scenes.

496
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think what he did was he.

497
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 2: Found holes, but I think he had some options on

498
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 2: a few of the holes, and I think he manipulated

499
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 2: it to.

500
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 3: Gain the best way to present. And that's the thing.

501
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 2: Sometimes presenting a feature is not rooting it directly at it.

502
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: Sometimes presenting the best presentation of a feature is working

503
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 2: either parallel to it or working on an angle to it.

504
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 2: And then what it does is it doesn't dominate the backdrop.

505
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 2: It becomes part of the entire composition. And that's where

506
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 2: I find.

507
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 3: I've always liked.

508
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: The view, particularly when you get into eight, and I

509
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 2: think part of the distant view I just like because

510
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: it actually shares a series of ridge lines that I

511
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: really enjoy. But it's the interplay with ones going this way,

512
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: another one's going that way. And you know, I think

513
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 2: Bill Corsone who's always talked about looking for reverse cats

514
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 2: or when away the fairway's falling that way and then

515
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: the green sight's falling the opposite way. Well, think about

516
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 2: Thompson doing the same thing, but doing that with the

517
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 2: scenery instead.

518
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 3: That's that's some pretty cool crap going on. Again. I'm

519
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 3: doing good not to swear.

520
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: I think crap is okay. I think we can I

521
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: think we can get away with that one. So we've

522
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: talked about a couple of things that make Jasper Park's

523
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: architecture special, This idea of borrowed scenery, the use of scale.

524
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: What were the redone bunkers like at Jasper Park? And

525
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: now I think that maybe some people have an image

526
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: in their minds of the bunkers at Bamp Springs with

527
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: all their kind of wild tongues and capes and bays,

528
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: and this just a sort of showy bunker style in

529
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, they're they're at Bamp. When Thompson

530
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: came back to make some changes at Jasper Park, did

531
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: he go for that same style? Is that what the

532
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: vintage bunkers at Jasper no.

533
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 2: And that's one of my favorite things about this is

534
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 2: why he's just.

535
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: The changed The.

536
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: Pantheon bamp was way more loose edged than it looks

537
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 2: even today. It was pretty wild and naturalistic and rough.

538
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 2: Jasper even if it was redone had bays and noses

539
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:50,719
Speaker 2: and islands, but it had very controlled lines, very organized lines.

540
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 3: There were.

541
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 2: Wonderfully organic in places, and then they were Again. One

542
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 2: of the things I had to learn with doing restoration

543
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: of his work is you have to learn to build

544
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 2: straight lines so something would be straight. And again I'm

545
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 2: trying to think who sort of pointed that out to me.

546
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: It might have been another one of those Jeff Cornish conversations.

547
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,479
Speaker 2: But if you look up in nature, you find in

548
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 2: nature there are straight lines. So if you built everything organic,

549
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 2: then it just comes across as organic. If you can

550
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 2: mix your straight lines, your curves, your angles, your corners

551
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 2: with some organic lines, you get something that's much more natural.

552
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 3: Funny enough, natural has.

553
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 2: A lot of stuff that I would look for in

554
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 2: the wood shop to create straight lines with. And one

555
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 2: of the things I had to learn when I was

556
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 2: doing Saint George's was to actually build a bunch of

557
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: straight lines and a bunch of perfect corners.

558
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 3: And allow.

559
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 2: As you're building and you're finishing, it evolves to something

560
00:31:54,920 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 2: that's not perfectly square, and you just do you let

561
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: that happen. And you know that as every layer, the

562
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 2: topsoil going on, the turf going on, every layer is

563
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: going to mute the rigid lines. But the funny part

564
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: was it was Jim or Bean actually we ended up

565
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 2: talking about straight lines. This goes back to when Pacific

566
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 2: Dunes was first opening. We had a conversation about how

567
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: you get natural bunkers and it involves way more straight

568
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: lines than you ever can possibly imagine, and math and

569
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 2: math and a lot more math than you would think too.

570
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: More geometry than you might think. Yep. Yeah, because when

571
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: people think of naturalistic bunkers they think of kind of

572
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: the cloud like flowing shapes. That you're saying that there's

573
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: more linearity involved in creating bunkers like this than they might.

574
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 2: If you get everything to if everything flows cloud like,

575
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 2: If everything flows, then all you get is something that

576
00:32:55,200 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: essentially looks like a cloud. It's not that artistic, it's

577
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 2: just moving. But if it's moving really regularly, it's actually

578
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: almost upsetting to be organic but controlled. So you prefer

579
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 2: it to be a little bit organic and a little

580
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 2: bit loose, but it's still going to look manufactured.

581
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 3: It has to.

582
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: Have some things that sort of look like erosion has

583
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 2: a tendency to be straighter, And if you think about

584
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 2: naturalistic bunkers, you've got to start thinking about erosion and

585
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: what would happen if we built something but we left

586
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 2: it for a month, we had four or five major rainstorms,

587
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 2: and then we had to finish it because we don't

588
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 2: have any equipment on site. That actually is kind of

589
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 2: how you make natural bunkers is you've got to think

590
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 2: about erosion or evolution. What would happen, Where would the

591
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 2: sand splash end up? Or what if a piece of

592
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: equipment slipped down the side, but we just put all

593
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 2: the grass back, because that's actually what the.

594
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 3: Really old bunkers we like. Part of it is evolution.

595
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 2: It's just they get a little bit of erosion, they

596
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 2: get a little bit of damage, they get a little

597
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: bit of the repairs soften one area out, they sharpen

598
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 2: another area up, and it's the inconsistencies that make natural.

599
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: So would you say that in Thompson's follow up work

600
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: at Jasper Park that he got even further along in

601
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: his development as a bunker builder than he was when

602
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: he built bamf Springs.

603
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 2: That is a very interesting question because I'm having to

604
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 2: think about that one.

605
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: I'm feeling like this is what you're implying, though, but

606
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: this seems like it would be a new idea.

607
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 2: Well, there was no question like the first set of

608
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 2: bunkers he did were surprisingly plain.

609
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 3: And now the thing is, Thompson's.

610
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 2: Career started off with he started in the early twenties,

611
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 2: and he was limited by what was going on. So

612
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 2: you did have some cult examples just at that time,

613
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 2: and you had some Willie Park work, but at that

614
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: point a lot of things were very simple in nature,

615
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 2: and even Thompson's earliest work there were some noses, there

616
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 2: were even surprisingly in twenty three there were some islands,

617
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 2: which that's super early in is he was playing with things,

618
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 2: but it was fairly simple, rudimentary, and largely small in

619
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 2: context of what he would do later on. So he

620
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 2: was evolving as he went and I just think hard

621
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 2: to believe, but by Bam Springs he had done half

622
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 2: the work he ever would do. So he'd done forty

623
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 2: golf courses and we're only talking about seven years, seven

624
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: or eight years in total. Seven years, eight years, I

625
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 2: guess by the end. But you can see as you

626
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 2: go through all those golf courses he's trying things, trying

627
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 2: new things. I think part of that new people, I

628
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 2: think part of that. I do know he was traveling

629
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 2: around to see other works, so he was learning as

630
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 2: he was going. I do know he went to see

631
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 2: Wingfoot when it was being built, so I know when

632
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 2: he was during the war, he got out to Glenn Eagles.

633
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 3: He even at.

634
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: One point mentions Pine Valley of he admired it, but

635
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 2: didn't want to do it, didn't want to be the

636
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: one to build something like that. So he was seeing

637
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 2: a lot of very interesting ideas. The interesting thing was

638
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 2: Cornish told me that every once in a while he'd

639
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 2: see something he'd think was clearly way better than he

640
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 2: was doing and would actually make him depressed. And yeah,

641
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 2: he did have an issue with depression, a little bit

642
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: of an issue with depression. And he said, whenever he

643
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 2: saw something he thought was really great, he was either

644
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 2: excited by it or he had the blues, and that

645
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 2: was sort of his reaction to it. But I think

646
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 2: even if he had the blues, in the end, he

647
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 2: was just I think the one thing he doesn't get

648
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 2: credit for is being competitive. And I know he's super

649
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 2: competitive with tilling Hass because he was pissed off that

650
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 2: tilling Hass came to do Scarborough that he didn't get

651
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 2: that commission, and so.

652
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 3: We had a thing for.

653
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 2: That was one of the fascinating parts about him is

654
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 2: he had a thing for tilling asked, and yet he

655
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 2: had this wonderful relationship with Charles Allison, like they were

656
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 2: really friendly and remain friendly. From Allison's period where he

657
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 2: came up Toronto golf and to New York downs.

658
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 1: He wanted to be better though yes.

659
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we all do, I think, but I

660
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 2: want to be better comes with striving to be better.

661
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: You have to strive to be better to be better.

662
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 3: And the other end of it is.

663
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 2: You have to be willing to be stubborn. And not

664
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 2: all of us, if I'm picking on a personal fault,

665
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 2: not all of us have that ability to be stubborn

666
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 2: or contentious or or difficult. Even you need to be

667
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 2: difficult to be great.

668
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: And what certainly drives a lot of people.

669
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so it's funny.

670
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 2: You can look at you can look at the people

671
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 2: who've done really well, even the people with wonderful personalities

672
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 2: like to take a Gill or a Bill and they

673
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 2: still are. They know when to just hold.

674
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 3: Their ground and that's what makes them great.

675
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 2: Bill does it in a way that I'm fully convinced.

676
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 2: Bill could tell you to f off to your face

677
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 2: and have you appreciate the way he said it. He

678
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 2: I just think that he's got the ability to inform

679
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 2: you that he's not going to do something in a

680
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: way that you actually appreciate the whole conversation and don't

681
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 2: realize it untill after the fact sort of thing. He

682
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 2: just he's just got a wonderful nature to him that

683
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 2: it comes across at all moments, regardless of whether he's

684
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 2: needing to say no, I don't really want to do that.

685
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: So bringing this back to Stanley Thompson, he did have

686
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 1: some with this edge about him. It drove him, you do,

687
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: he could be difficult things with his golf courses, right,

688
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: He'd evolved through the course of his career, and part

689
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: of what makes Jasper Park interesting is that it was

690
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: because he returned to it and made some changes. It

691
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: was a document of some of that development. Ye a golf.

692
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 3: Architect as a historian.

693
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 2: For me, what's interesting is that's that's the moment where

694
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 2: I was always trying to figure out when he became.

695
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 2: My joke with a friend of mine was Stanley F.

696
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 2: And Thompson is sort of when he became great, the

697
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: person that we all go to study. And I think

698
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 2: it was just this continuous evolution to Bamp Springs, and

699
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: I think of Bam Springs essentially Bam Springs. He said,

700
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 2: here's everything I can do, here's every trick I've got.

701
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 2: And he never did it again, never built with as

702
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 2: many bunkers, never went near his elaborate He actually said, okay,

703
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 2: I can. I can throw down bunkers with the George

704
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 2: Thomases and the Telling hass And you want to name

705
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 2: whoever great bunker builder is, I can throw it down

706
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 2: with any of them, and I can kick their ass.

707
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 2: I've proven I can do it. And then what was

708
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 2: interesting was I would say he added more and more

709
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 2: restraint from that period forward and it just kept going.

710
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 2: By the time he did Capilana, who he was doing

711
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 2: bunkerless holes.

712
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 3: By the time he did highland links.

713
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 2: He did four or sorry five bunkerless Greens, relied on

714
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: the land More did way less bunkering. I think he

715
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 2: just proved something and then I think he Part of

716
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 2: it was obviously circumstance wars, but part of it as

717
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 2: well is I think he just I can do this,

718
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 2: but I don't need to do that. I'm smart enough,

719
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 2: and I think he just showed that he could do

720
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 2: it hell of a lot with contours and so there's

721
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: a lot more reliance on the contrast. That's one of

722
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 2: the things I enjoy about Jasper over Banff bamf relies

723
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 2: on the bunkering. It's obviously got a couple of moments

724
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 2: that don't. Interestingly, Cauldron was without bunkers originally, which is fascinating,

725
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 2: and the credit goes to Trent Jones for suggesting to

726
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 2: put them in.

727
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 3: Fascinating.

728
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 2: Stan did it, but Trent suggested it on a report

729
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 2: and it's not far removed from what the design is.

730
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 2: But what I appreciate about Stan was, you know, he

731
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 2: was I think he was flexible.

732
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 3: I think the.

733
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 2: Beauty of is like even he didn't go back to

734
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 2: Jasper and say, well, I'm sorry, it's perfection in my

735
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 2: first version, he went back and went, No, this could

736
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 2: be way better. I can do something different, And then

737
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: he went back again and he just continued to tinker

738
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 2: away of a little bit more framework would make this

739
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 2: whole better. You know, I can do something really elaborate here,

740
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 2: And I think he just kept trying stuff. I think

741
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: really World War two is where it just kind of

742
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 2: ended to a degree. He did some interesting things afterwards,

743
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:01,720
Speaker 2: but I just think his probables with alcoholism were getting

744
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 2: worse going into the war. And also there was only

745
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 2: seven commissions after that, and you know, the money wasn't

746
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 2: really around till the fifties, so I think he was

747
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 2: kind of limited in what he was going to accomplish.

748
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,359
Speaker 2: But it's interesting. You go to some of the South

749
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: American work and it's got some it's got some jazz too,

750
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 2: Like I think some of the stuff he did at

751
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 2: Gabby it was pretty cool.

752
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, Later in his career, Stanley Thompson started working working

753
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: a little more in South America, experimenting kind of in

754
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: the same way in that region that Mackenzie did in

755
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: the early nineteen thirties. But I want to bring this

756
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: back to Jasper Park and back to the present day,

757
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: So where is the course at now.

758
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 2: After the fire, Glen Griffiths, the superintendent, was able to

759
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 2: recover ten greens, so he actually stripped some of the

760
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 2: other greens that ended up being resotted. What happened was

761
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 2: a number of the greens got burnt thirteen. The green

762
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 2: looked like plates, a turf look like that. It all

763
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 2: looked like us and it just burnt and curled. There

764
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 2: was a lot of intense fire right at that particular spot,

765
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 2: and so what happened was resotted those greens, resotted some

766
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,399
Speaker 2: of the approaches that were lost where trees fell down.

767
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,240
Speaker 2: There was a lot of trees falling down and burning turf.

768
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 2: So we resotted eight greens. We actually expanded three of

769
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 2: them back to their original extents. It's twenty feet back

770
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 2: to the left on seven. So first time anybody plays

771
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 2: with that old pin position back, they're going to think

772
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 2: that the pins actually cut off the green because it

773
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 2: just doesn't look like there's any green over there. But

774
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: the old grain used to go back into that corner.

775
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 2: So we recaptured a couple of spots more of the

776
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,240
Speaker 2: kicker on eight and we'll do some of that work

777
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: over time, so that was done. He saved the fairways,

778
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 2: did a lot of overseating there in the middle of

779
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 2: doing an irrigation system now and then the big thing

780
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 2: is the trees. I would say there's fifty trees left

781
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 2: on the golf course in total, and they were individual trees,

782
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 2: and unfortunately, because of the way things work, those trees

783
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 2: will put out essentially an indication that they're in stress,

784
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 2: and beetles are drawn to stress. So essentially even those

785
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 2: Douglas were expected to go. And so what we're doing

786
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: is we're going to plant one hundred and fifty thousand

787
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 2: seedlings mixed because the golf course actually breaks down into

788
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:40,800
Speaker 2: different forest structures, and then we'll replant with the idea.

789
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 2: My mindset is to put it back the way it

790
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 2: was when I showed up, when I was first day

791
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 2: I was married. Actually we stayed in jasper So and

792
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 2: I saw the golf firstam embarrassing or depending on your

793
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,879
Speaker 2: point of view. But my first day I actually went

794
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 2: and played golf by myself and my wife wore a

795
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 2: golf woildo button. It was she encouraged me.

796
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 3: To do it.

797
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: That's nice. She knew what she was in for it

798
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: that way.

799
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so.

800
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 2: And I would like even the individual, the big Douglas

801
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: fur that it's rooted around. So what we're going to

802
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 2: try to do is get Parks Canada to let us

803
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 2: collect pine cones and actually get a nursery to grow

804
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 2: the pine trees. We need to grow them to about

805
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 2: twelve to fifteen years old, otherwise they can be damaged

806
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 2: by equipment. They've put the fence back up, so that

807
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 2: should keep the elk out. If we didn't put the

808
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 2: fence back up, the elk would actually eat all the seedlings.

809
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 2: So the idea is that's the only way we're going

810
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 2: to get the seedlings to come back up. So we're

811
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 2: going to actually try to put it back to what

812
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 2: it was. But my view is one hundred year of view.

813
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 2: So I've told them I'll we'll put all this arrangement.

814
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 2: I may see the bigger trees go in when I'm fading.

815
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 2: Hopefully I'm still traveling and I could go see that,

816
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 2: and then it's just as you need sort of fifty

817
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 2: to one hundred years for that forest to return. But

818
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 2: I would like it to be presented the way I

819
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 2: saw it, the way some of the views we're going

820
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 2: to leave open and all the turf issues that were

821
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 2: created by overgrowth. We've actually planted rescue and we've stripped

822
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 2: everything out so they can get in a mowe it,

823
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 2: so they won't have those issues anymore. In the metal

824
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 2: areas will remain metal areas like they used to be.

825
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 2: They won't be grown in by aspens, so that'll all remain.

826
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 2: But what I want to do is I want to

827
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 2: present the property the way it was presented. Would I

828
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 2: look at it as a restoration right down to the setting.

829
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,839
Speaker 1: A restoration of the course as it was when you

830
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:46,720
Speaker 1: first saw it.

831
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: The timeline for the trees is actually the early photos.

832
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 3: The nineteen twenties photos.

833
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: So is there an opportunity here to do something good

834
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: for the golf course? Obviously this is a sad set

835
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: of circumstance answers for everybody, the lodge, the town, the

836
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: golf course itself. But is there something that can come

837
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: from this that might actually produce a better and more

838
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: historically authentic golf course than existed before the fire.

839
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 2: So you've got some of the views that were lost

840
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 2: are back. You're not fighting with the part to try

841
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: and remove trees, which they were very reluctant to do.

842
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 2: We have like seven used to have views on the

843
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 2: left looking down over ten and six. You've got those

844
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 2: views back. They will stay. We're not putting any trees

845
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 2: up in those areas. So any of the larger views

846
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 2: that where the aspens had grown in, we've planted fascused

847
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 2: and it's going to be fascus again and so you're

848
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 2: going to get a little bit more open as it

849
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 2: was when you look at the opening day photos.

850
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 3: We're working to those where you've got the forest.

851
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 2: We're going to establish the forest, which is particularly in

852
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 2: the middle of the golf course there was actually a

853
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,919
Speaker 2: large forested area, and the superintendent's cottage and the maintenance building,

854
00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 2: we're all in there. And then the big one is

855
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 2: trying to get the Douglas fur, which he worked around

856
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 2: the individual furs tremendous tree. Is to try and restore

857
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 2: those big trees that are actually interwoven into play so

858
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,439
Speaker 2: they come into play. So what we've done is we've

859
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 2: made sure that none of the stuff that grew in

860
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,720
Speaker 2: can grow back. So we're turning to those old views

861
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 2: and those old spaces around the green sites, and what

862
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 2: we're trying to do is reaven trying to put the

863
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 2: individuals back, and it's only on the first couple of

864
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 2: holes and the essentially the last four or five holes

865
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 2: where the individual trees actually stood out. What we'd like

866
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: to do is we'd like to have those individual trees

867
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 2: be developed.

868
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: Now, what about the golf course features. What kind of

869
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: work do you want to do with the grassing lines,

870
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: the bunkers, the greens, anything along those lines. That's in

871
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 1: your head right now.

872
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 2: When we got together in the spring, one of the

873
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 2: things I did was I pushed the fairways not out

874
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 2: to the full wits, but six acres out. There's six

875
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 2: acres more fairway than there was before the fire, and

876
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 2: that's just to get some of the old fairway wits back.

877
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 3: One of the biggest problems is to get all of the.

878
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,399
Speaker 2: Fairway wits back, you've actually got to take the cart

879
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 2: pass system out, which I'm not seeing Fairmont sort of

880
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 2: running to do because most rounds are resort rounds in

881
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 2: their cart rounds. So we pushed everything out where we could.

882
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 2: We've grassed everything out towards the bunkers where it should be.

883
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 2: We've talked about doing some more grassing work later on.

884
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 3: We've talked about some.

885
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 2: Additional green expansion back out to the greens. The plan

886
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,800
Speaker 2: I gave them shows all the green expansion. Most of

887
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 2: the bunkers are actually intact, but there are some bunkers

888
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 2: that have been altered, and so they've actually got plans

889
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 2: for how to alter individual bunkers to get and usually

890
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 2: it's not the bunker, it's a missing face or a

891
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 2: nose that used to extend down that's now been sort

892
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 2: of cut off with it's just been trimmed and the

893
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,439
Speaker 2: shape has been lost. So it's more about lines, it's

894
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 2: not about shaping. The only big thing is there used

895
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 2: to be a very complex arched over bunker system between

896
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 2: six and ten that got completely changed, and if we're

897
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 2: going to do it, we would do everything else and

898
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 2: then we would come to that and do that last.

899
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 2: I got admit that's the one that makes me the

900
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 2: most nervous of putting that back in because it's really elaborate.

901
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 2: I've got great photos of it, but it is not

902
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 2: what the ridge is there.

903
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 3: But everything else has changed.

904
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 1: So overall, this is a long term project that we're

905
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: talking about gradually over the course of the coming years.

906
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 2: So I would say fairways there may be another push,

907
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: but i'd say, fairways are largely done.

908
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 3: We've talked about a little.

909
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 2: Bit of tea work just to address the fact that

910
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 2: a couple of fives, in particular, there's abilities to go

911
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 2: back on even higher spots to put some of the

912
00:50:58,480 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 2: distances back in.

913
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:00,879
Speaker 3: I've played so short.

914
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 2: To me, it plays as a long for but all

915
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 2: you've got to do is go back onto the next

916
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 2: ridge and essentially it would play the way it used

917
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 2: to play for distances. So we've talked about a few

918
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 2: teas to do a few things like that, but not

919
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 2: really concentrated.

920
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 3: We don't see that as a priority. But it's there.

921
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 2: But even when we've talked about it, it's just like

922
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 2: it's there, but it's never going to be in the

923
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 2: initial conversation. So it was get fescue down to stabilize

924
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 2: the property, and the fescues will remain, plant the trees

925
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 2: to slowly develop the setting. Again, we pushed the fairways out.

926
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 2: Teas have been recovered. Fairways have been recovered. We will

927
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 2: do some more sotting to expand the greens. I don't

928
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 2: think that's going to happen this year. I think that's

929
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 2: still down the way. They still have to remove a

930
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: lot of the trees that parks can want them to

931
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 2: keep up, essentially as wildlife habitat. But the problem is

932
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 2: they're all going to come down within twenty five years.

933
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 2: So we've entered into a dialogue of we really would

934
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 2: just speed that process up and plant and get the

935
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 2: seedlings to come faster.

936
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: When are players expected back on the course? Now, I apologize,

937
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 1: I don't know if they were already back there this year.

938
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, so August first they reopened.

939
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 1: Oh how about that?

940
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, they managed to get it all back up and play.

941
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:21,240
Speaker 1: That's sort of miraculous, Yes.

942
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 3: I actually thought.

943
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 2: And so I don't know if it's probably not common news,

944
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 2: but I do know quietly.

945
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 3: The director of golf and the superintendent.

946
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 2: Played together because they're the ones who carried the weight

947
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 2: to get this done. So they played together a quiet

948
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 2: round in the afternoon, and then they had the opening

949
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 2: and they had one of the firemen actually hit the

950
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,959
Speaker 2: the t shot, so one of the firemen from town

951
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 2: and opened the golf course. And they even had a

952
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 2: Stanley Thompson Society event there in September. So I provided

953
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 2: a video interview for it, but I couldn't attend. I

954
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 2: just was kind of stymied with the work that I

955
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 2: had to do.

956
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: Well, that's great, that's really good news. And the fact

957
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: that there's more work to come at at Jasper Park

958
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 1: to recover and improve the golf courses is tremendously heartening

959
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:19,879
Speaker 1: after a tough year.

960
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 2: So my viewpoint, the golf course is fantastic to play

961
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 2: as it is now. Seeing the burnt trees is an

962
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 2: interesting dynamic, but is even when I did the walk

963
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 2: around after three or four holes, you actually get really used.

964
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 3: To it and you start to ignore it.

965
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 2: But what you will see in that by next year

966
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 2: is you'll just see some more turf improvement, even with

967
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 2: the recovery with the fairways, so it'll probably be in

968
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 2: pretty good shape. I mean, they had an invasive species

969
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 2: in the fairways, so there are always small silver linings.

970
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,240
Speaker 3: We got the views back that we had lost.

971
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 2: We got the greens that were always struggling now have

972
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 2: full sunlight. And the problem they had with some of

973
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 2: the turf grass actually most of it got burned away,

974
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 2: so it's funny it didn't survive the burn very well.

975
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 2: So we actually have a I think Glenn's fairways are

976
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 2: actually in better shape, but I would say two to

977
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 2: three years from now, you'll start to see actually the

978
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 2: initial recovery, but the outside will now be fascued some

979
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 2: really gorgeous rescues.

980
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 3: We rescued.

981
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 2: I think it was one hundred and thirty acres, so

982
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 2: that's a lot of hydroceating. So I just think it's there,

983
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 2: ready to be played and ready to be enjoyed. And

984
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 2: I hope we can do a little bit of restorative

985
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 2: work over the next ten years and then just let

986
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 2: it go, let it evolve back to what it was.

987
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for coming on the podcast. Ian. It

988
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 1: was great to hear the story about Jasper Park, and

989
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: good luck with the project moving forward.

990
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:52,399
Speaker 3: Thank you very much.

991
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 2: I'm glad you guys are really interested Jasper. I was

992
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 2: asked about twenty years ago, where would you play your

993
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 2: last round of golf if you determine that you can

994
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,959
Speaker 2: only play one more round, and my pick was Jasper Park.

995
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 2: Then it's Jasper Park. Now it would be Jasper Park

996
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 2: tomorrow morning. It is my single favorite place to play

997
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 2: a round of golf.

998
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 1: Thanks Ian. This episode of Designing Golf was produced by

999
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: Will Balsam. Thank you Will. If you've been enjoying Designing Golf,

1000
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: then I can just about guarantee that you would love

1001
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: what we're doing in Frida Egg Golf Club. That's Frida

1002
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 1: Egg Golf's membership. Go to the Frida Egg dot com

1003
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: slash membership to see more about it. One of the

1004
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 1: things that we deliver in Frida Egg Golf Club is

1005
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: regular in depth course profiles and regular updates on happenings

1006
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:55,280
Speaker 1: in golf architecture. So if you're a designing golf listener

1007
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:59,399
Speaker 1: you've been liking these episodes, then this will be your

1008
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, so make sure to check that out.

1009
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: We also do fun stuff like a whole design contest

1010
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 1: where the winning hole will actually get built at a

1011
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: real golf course. That's ongoing right now. We've just gotten

1012
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 1: all of our submissions. There's some really cool stuff and

1013
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: we're about to go through the judging process for that.

1014
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 1: So if you participated in that, thank you very much

1015
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 1: and thanks for being part of Friday Golf Club. We're

1016
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 1: really enjoying it in there all right, Thank you for listening,

1017
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 1: and we'll be back again soon with another episode.