Speaker 1: This episode is dedicated to Sarah Miller Arnon, mother of
Speaker 1: our producer Ben Arna. Sarah was a loving mother, wife, teacher,
Speaker 1: and guiding light. We love you, Sarah until we meet again.
Speaker 1: I'm Erica Alexander.
Speaker 2: That I'm Whitney Dow.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Reparations. The Big Payback, a production of Color
Speaker 1: Farm Media, iHeartRadio, and The Black Effect Podcast Network.
Speaker 3: That theme of paying back is also a very deeply
Speaker 3: churched name. When I grew up, there was a songwek
Speaker 3: saying called heyday is coming after Awhile, And there were
Speaker 3: a number of songs that suggested that injustice just doesn't
Speaker 3: get away. Now, when I think about the moral piece
Speaker 3: of this, I want to look at it through two lenses.
Speaker 3: One lens is the religious land of Judeo Christian perspective,
Speaker 3: and then the other is from the constitutional And the
Speaker 3: third one might be that many people don't realize Erica,
Speaker 3: that for years there was no separate study of economics
Speaker 3: in this country or in the world, that the study
Speaker 3: of economics was a part of morral philosophy. In other words,
Speaker 3: you would study.
Speaker 1: Did you hear that?
Speaker 2: Did I hear what? Reverend Barber?
Speaker 1: No? No? After Reveren Barber that.
Speaker 4: Silence, Yes, I heard it. Why are we listening to silence?
Speaker 3: Erica?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, as a reminder of where we're all
Speaker 1: going at this brief life's end, you know. And the
Speaker 1: other day we went on a field trip to visit
Speaker 1: my dad's cemetery out in New Jersey and I hadn't
Speaker 1: been there in over thirty years. And we'll get into
Speaker 1: why that is. But remember after we talked, before we left,
Speaker 1: we just stood there for a little while and listened
Speaker 1: to the silence.
Speaker 2: I remember that. But why are you thinking about that
Speaker 2: right now?
Speaker 1: Because we've been going so fast. We threw ourselves into
Speaker 1: this big reparations world and all that comes with it.
Speaker 1: So maybe we need a moment to settle down and
Speaker 1: just listen, stop talking, And if we did, maybe we'd
Speaker 1: be able to hear the angels speak. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe I mean also to remember why we wanted to
Speaker 1: do this. What do we want to get out of it?
Speaker 1: What did you want to get out of it?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 4: I think that I wanted to get a couple of
Speaker 4: things out of it, something for myself that I wanted
Speaker 4: to get a deeper understanding of this idea of reparations
Speaker 4: and what it might mean for our country, because I
Speaker 4: think that so much of the time you think you
Speaker 4: understand something and you don't really understand it. You have
Speaker 4: sort of a vague idea about it, and once you
Speaker 4: dig into it, you realize it's so much more complicated
Speaker 4: then something I want on a larger scale. I really
Speaker 4: I've always talked about Eric. I know you laugh at it,
Speaker 4: but this idea that I'm trying to say white people
Speaker 4: and I really want.
Speaker 2: What I mean by that, I wanted to bring.
Speaker 4: White ears to this story that I think that so
Speaker 4: much of the time white people think that the story
Speaker 4: of reparations really is something for black people, so they
Speaker 4: could hear themselves in that story. And I think if
Speaker 4: you can bring white ears to the story, you also
Speaker 4: have the opportunity to bring white hearts as well.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like Reverend Barber.
Speaker 4: Who's decade his life to the Poor People's Campaign and
Speaker 4: the work of Martin Luther King, and he has this
Speaker 4: goll of fusion politics, and what that means is that
Speaker 4: the fates of black and white people are linked together.
Speaker 4: They're fused together, that we aren't on these separate journeys
Speaker 4: that were connected, and so what affects one affects the other.
Speaker 4: And I think sort of what we've done here, Eric,
Speaker 4: I hope we've done is we've kind of been trying
Speaker 4: to do fusion storytelling, where we show that the black
Speaker 4: and white story are intimately together and you can't understand
Speaker 4: one without the other.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, it's been a hell of a journey, and I
Speaker 1: got to give it up for the race advocates, people
Speaker 1: like Reverend Barber, the Poor People's Campaign, He's amazing. I
Speaker 1: don't know how they all stay sane in this world.
Speaker 1: It's exhausting. I mean, we're definitely not the same people
Speaker 1: we were when we started this, or perhaps we were
Speaker 1: always our same selves, and this process created extraordinary conditions
Speaker 1: to test the outer limits of who we thought we
Speaker 1: were versus who we really are. As you can see,
Speaker 1: I've become confusions in between all this. But yeah, stress
Speaker 1: it's a purifier. Pain and suffering too.
Speaker 4: Well, what do you mean by that, Erica, that it's
Speaker 4: a purifier, Like who's a pure fine?
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, that's actually a deep question,
Speaker 1: because if you know, if stress and pain could purify something,
Speaker 1: you think the United States would be in a better space.
Speaker 1: But I think it's been so successful at what it's
Speaker 1: done in terms of the oppression on people of color
Speaker 1: and black people, that it really hasn't experienced the pain
Speaker 1: enough and suffering of that to change. I really don't.
Speaker 1: But before our trip to the cemetery, had I ever
Speaker 1: told you about my dad's death?
Speaker 4: No, we've talked a lot about your family, of course
Speaker 4: your mom know, not specifically about your father's passing.
Speaker 2: Why do you want to talk about him now?
Speaker 1: Well, because my father's story is a tell of morality,
Speaker 1: and that topic indirectly is relevant to what we are
Speaker 1: talking about. What lies underneath this whole reparations talk is
Speaker 1: one of personal character and accountability morality. So okay, let's
Speaker 1: talk about it, and let's talk about our road trip.
Speaker 1: Glad we took Revern Barber along with us to sit shotgun.
Speaker 1: He knows a little something about the road we were traveling.
Speaker 2: He certainly does. In fact, he led the way you.
Speaker 3: Would study moral philosophy, And as a part of moral philosophy,
Speaker 3: you've studied economics because the suggestion was there was no
Speaker 3: way to be moral if you were emmral with your
Speaker 3: money and ear marl with the way you treated people
Speaker 3: based on their relationships with money and wealth that was
Speaker 3: separated in America in large part due to slavery, because
Speaker 3: you can't, on the one hand, say that the economics
Speaker 3: is a moral issue when you build a system on
Speaker 3: slavery that has five underpinnings, and the first of it
Speaker 3: is evil economics and an evil economics. And I've kind
Speaker 3: of coined these five evil economics, meaning that the end
Speaker 3: justifies the means. So if your goal is to get
Speaker 3: wealthy and to exceed other nations that have been in
Speaker 3: existence thousands of years before you, and the only way
Speaker 3: to do that is to turn people into property, then
Speaker 3: the end your wealth justifies the means, which is a
Speaker 3: form of evil economics.
Speaker 2: Do you know where the grid is?
Speaker 3: I had no idea.
Speaker 1: She said it was under a big oak. I was
Speaker 1: hoping that there would be somebody here we could ask.
Speaker 2: So Erica, how did your dad die?
Speaker 1: Well, it was pretty brutal. Let me put it to
Speaker 1: you this way. If he had been an animal, they
Speaker 1: would have put him down years before, just to end
Speaker 1: his suffering. But I don't know, Whitney. The details are
Speaker 1: like pain pornography, and I don't want to get into that.
Speaker 6: So we're just coming out of the Holland Tunnel into
Speaker 6: New Jersey.
Speaker 1: We're at Rose Mount Cemetery in New Jersey, Elizabeth, New Jersey,
Speaker 1: and my father is buried here and I don't know
Speaker 1: exactly where, but my mother said it was in front
Speaker 1: of a oak tree and the office is closed.
Speaker 6: There's a lot of trees here.
Speaker 4: I think that there's a big oak tree over there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the identifying marker of this place is that
Speaker 1: everything's flat. There are no like standing graves. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's just what they decided so they can
Speaker 1: maybe put more people here, but uh, it's not the
Speaker 1: prettiest place. Well. His name was Robert Lee Murray Alexander.
Speaker 1: It was a preacher and he lived a tough life.
Speaker 1: He was also a complicated, fascinating person. Born in the
Speaker 1: South of West, he was an orphan and his hobole
Speaker 1: preacher life certainly took its toll, and in his short
Speaker 1: life he ran fast, but he wasn't built for speed.
Speaker 1: I don't know where it is. In fact, I haven't
Speaker 1: been here in over thirty years. He died in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety three and we buried him and I haven't come
Speaker 1: back since. He was born with a bad heart. He
Speaker 1: died of congestive heart failure and adult diabetes. He was
Speaker 1: I think fifty years old and he passed away in
Speaker 1: East New York, Brooklyn. We lived in the parsonage where
Speaker 1: my mother, Sammy, also an orphan and soon to be
Speaker 1: a widow, performed her vow to death to us part
Speaker 1: and she took care of him until he breathed his
Speaker 1: last And it wasn't easy because toward the end of
Speaker 1: his life his legs started to rot and turn ganggreen
Speaker 1: because of the circular it was so compromised. He died
Speaker 1: January thirteenth, nineteen ninety three. It was just before I
Speaker 1: was going to start the Cosby Show, and funeral director
Speaker 1: had an interesting comment that he said to my mother.
Speaker 1: He said that my dad must have been paying a
Speaker 1: debt because it marked his flesh and bone is fair trade.
Speaker 1: He told my mother that he had never seen a
Speaker 1: body that had gone through as much pain and suffering
Speaker 1: and all his years of undertaking.
Speaker 2: Wow, I see.
Speaker 3: The next one issue would be sick sociology, and that
Speaker 3: is that people can be around each other physically, but
Speaker 3: there has to be a hierarchy. There has to be
Speaker 3: a us them, you cannot have an equal society. The
Speaker 3: third pillar would be political pathology, and that is that
Speaker 3: all of your politics are designed to protect this evil
Speaker 3: economics and to protect this sociology, so much so that
Speaker 3: when you even write your documents, you have to make
Speaker 3: sure that the system of slavery is protected, because you
Speaker 3: can't even have a unity or a constitution without that.
Speaker 3: The last two bad biology. So in the seventeenth century,
Speaker 3: a French scientist came up with this idea. You can
Speaker 3: read about this in one of Cornell West's book called
Speaker 3: Prophesied Deliverance, in which they said you could determine brain
Speaker 3: size by skin color. You saw some of this in
Speaker 3: the movie Django, and people thought it was just the movie.
Speaker 3: It was actually real. There were scientists who suggested that
Speaker 3: you could determine brain size by skin color. Therefore, skin
Speaker 3: color became a sign of one's lesser humanity, or actually
Speaker 3: one's lack of humanity. And then the last one is
Speaker 3: heretical ontology. Ontology is the study of God's intentions. And
Speaker 3: so the argument was that God intended the evil economists,
Speaker 3: God intended the sixth sociology, God intended the political pathology.
Speaker 3: God intended the bad biology. God intended the system of slavery,
Speaker 3: which is in itself a hered heress. It is the
Speaker 3: abuse and missus of theology. So when you asked that
Speaker 3: question about from a moral perspective, I just wanted to
Speaker 3: lay that out first.
Speaker 1: Now, to be clear, my father was no Hitler, no Polepot,
Speaker 1: no Dick Cheney, and yet in an unfair way here
Speaker 1: he was in East New York mythology. Now that's near Brownsville,
Speaker 1: and this is the early nineties. It's a real rough
Speaker 1: place that his physical body looked so tortured that it
Speaker 1: was a standout visual for pain and suffering. It's deep.
Speaker 1: But why aim, Why did my father, a local preacher,
Speaker 1: What did he do to deserve that? In my best
Speaker 1: guess is that he didn't do anything. He's just how
Speaker 1: life is. Life is unfair, imbalanced, it's cruel. Right. He
Speaker 1: was a star in anyone's room. He was very charismatic.
Speaker 1: He was very smart. He was intelligent. He was a genius.
Speaker 1: He could pick up languages quick. He was very good
Speaker 1: at reading rooms, reading people. He was a healer. He
Speaker 1: was an extraordinary healer. Pastors noted how gifted he was,
Speaker 1: but also touched by the spirit. It was more than
Speaker 1: just a calling or something that his grandmother said he'd do.
Speaker 1: He was really made for it. But we try to
Speaker 1: make sense of these things. So I rethought about it,
Speaker 1: and this is what I came up with. That my
Speaker 1: dad had violated a moral honor code and that the
Speaker 1: ramifications of that debt penetrated another dimension, and he would
Speaker 1: not be allowed to leave his human life without paying
Speaker 1: that bondsman. My great grandmother, who was present at his birth,
Speaker 1: she was a very powerful woman, they say, with a
Speaker 1: very deep voice. Maybe that's where I get it from
Speaker 1: A little bit saw signs of his anointing and declared
Speaker 1: that he was special and that he was to be,
Speaker 1: in her words, a man of God, and that marked
Speaker 1: him with the brand. And my father was special. He
Speaker 1: was mostly fulfilled that mission as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 1: But when his life choices morally didn't add up to
Speaker 1: his destined mission, the universe served him up a world
Speaker 1: of pain that match the likes of job as payment
Speaker 1: for undelivered services. So America may be in the same situation.
Speaker 1: She may have to pay the reaper a hard price
Speaker 1: for failing to fulfill her mission. I really believe there's
Speaker 1: a bounty on America's head for the sin and failure
Speaker 1: of being so immoral. And if there is a God,
Speaker 1: then maybe in death my father has earned his place
Speaker 1: back into his good graces. But it was going to
Speaker 1: have to be through great pain and suffering.
Speaker 3: In Judeo Christian thinking, in the Old Testament, there was
Speaker 3: always reparations, always represations. You never just took from people.
Speaker 3: In fact, every fiftieth year there was something called the
Speaker 3: season of Jubilee, and in that season of Jubilee, all
Speaker 3: slaves were to be free, all debts were to be canceled,
Speaker 3: all people were to be restored. And there was a
Speaker 3: thinking among the early Jewish rabbis and all that if
Speaker 3: that ever happened, if it ever actually happened, that the
Speaker 3: Kingdom of God would come in his fullness. In the
Speaker 3: New Testament, Jesus clearly taught that if you stole from somebody,
Speaker 3: you didn't just replace what you stole. You had to
Speaker 3: replace two, three fourfold what you stole. And until that happened,
Speaker 3: there's a very powerful story of a tax person in
Speaker 3: the Scripture that says he wants to follow Jesus. Jesus
Speaker 3: doesn't say go get baptized. Jesus doesn't say, put some
Speaker 3: all on your head. Jesus doesn't say, say how the
Speaker 3: new year. Jesus doesn't say that. He said, who have
Speaker 3: you stolen from? Zach kids? And he says, well, I
Speaker 3: stole them different. He said, okay, go and return to
Speaker 3: the folk that you have stolen from. And he goes out,
Speaker 3: and he returned. He said, I've done even more than
Speaker 3: just what I took. I restored three four four. And
Speaker 3: then Jesus say, now salvation has come. Now words, he
Speaker 3: couldn't just say I stole from all those folk, but oops,
Speaker 3: now want to be saved? Can you accept me? And
Speaker 3: Jesus says, said, you're forgiving.
Speaker 5: No no, no, no no, no no no no.
Speaker 3: You have to restore what you're stolen, and then salvation. So,
Speaker 3: whether we look at it historically or constitutionally or from
Speaker 3: a religious perspective, the issue of reparation is a serious theological, moral,
Speaker 3: and constitutional issue.
Speaker 6: How do you feel standing here?
Speaker 1: Oh, it's a not a nuh nice place. It's pretty ugly,
Speaker 1: feel like it's a Soviet type of compound, you know,
Speaker 1: the it's everything's flattened, the grass is patchy, and I
Speaker 1: don't know. If you didn't know grave yard was here,
Speaker 1: you just think it was a really badly unkept yard.
Speaker 1: And my father, who didn't pay attention to those types
Speaker 1: of things, probably would have liked to s to be
Speaker 1: in a nicer place. It's too bad he's not.
Speaker 7: There's no headstones, it's all flat markers, and you're just
Speaker 7: the only thing that's vertical are some of the flowers
Speaker 7: that are poking up around. So we're pretty close by
Speaker 7: the uh Newark Airport and the highway. Mean, well, thank
Speaker 7: you for bringing me.
Speaker 1: Here, Eric, thank you, And Dad, I'm sorry we don't
Speaker 1: have a marker for you.
Speaker 3: But he did.
Speaker 1: He doesn't live here anymore, so it doesn't matter what's
Speaker 1: here or not here. Took a reparations documentary and a
Speaker 1: discussion about race to get me back to see my father,
Speaker 1: which is interesting. Yeah, anyway, this journey is bigger than us.
Speaker 1: It's bigger than the sound of our voice and our understanding,
Speaker 1: but it is not bigger than a vision laid out
Speaker 1: long before we arrived here on this hot blue spin
Speaker 1: and rock you know America.
Speaker 4: In the context of this conversation about morality, this idea
Speaker 4: that people often say that people shouldn't be judged by
Speaker 4: the worst thing they've ever done? Or they asked that question,
Speaker 4: should people be judged by the worst thing that they've
Speaker 4: ever done? And I think sort of collectively, that's what
Speaker 4: white Americans are grappling with now. Are we as white Americans?
Speaker 4: Can we escape this thing? Can we escape this immoral
Speaker 4: thing of slavery that's our legacy? Are we somehow captives
Speaker 4: to this worst thing they've ever done? Can we ever
Speaker 4: outlive it?
Speaker 3: Can we ever outrun it?
Speaker 4: Can we ever change it? Is reparation something that could
Speaker 4: even change it? We're living in this time of reckoning
Speaker 4: right now. And is there anything that we can do
Speaker 4: that will balance the scale? Is there anything we can
Speaker 4: put on the other side of the scale that will
Speaker 4: equal the sins of the past.
Speaker 1: Oh, well, that's a human thing. That's why reparations is
Speaker 1: a heavy subject, because it's weighed down by centuries of
Speaker 1: hand wrangling and debates over what it is to be human?
Speaker 1: Who gets to be human? And alongside the idea of
Speaker 1: debt and repayment between discrownal parties, we're also talking about
Speaker 1: moral debt. Again, this is outside of cash or gold
Speaker 1: or diamonds or oil, it's a moral repayment restitution. It's
Speaker 1: one that perhaps can men fences and create bridges to
Speaker 1: a more perfect union. And that's epic stuff. We'll need
Speaker 1: more silence going forward so we can listen as we
Speaker 1: search and try to rescue the ingredients that can make
Speaker 1: our nation, in all its glory, a reality. It's important
Speaker 1: to ask the big questions, how do we do reparations? Well,
Speaker 1: that depends on us facing a national moral reckoning and
Speaker 1: thinking about my life and others I know who may
Speaker 1: be dealing with existential crises can lay the blueprint of
Speaker 1: how we approach these difficult questions and come up with
Speaker 1: better answers. Yeah, better answers. Where do I always come
Speaker 1: up with better answers? I know, I'll ask my mom.
Speaker 5: Sometime like, demand's more about than we can give. And
Speaker 5: I was thinking sometime we are malnourished, are under nurtured
Speaker 5: for the lives that are forced upon us. And I
Speaker 5: think that Robert gave what he could. Sometimes I believe
Speaker 5: that he might have been induced to things because of
Speaker 5: his male nourishment in life and looking at others wishing
Speaker 5: that he had this or that, and feeling inadequate. Sometimes,
Speaker 5: you know, deeds didn't match up because you're trying to
Speaker 5: reach for that ring grab and sometime you fall. But
Speaker 5: I won't be harsh in how I judged his commitment.
Speaker 5: I think he wanted very much to be a leader,
Speaker 5: a person that gave, and those were the sentiments of
Speaker 5: his last days. That's the reason I say you look
Speaker 5: at someone's heart, because you can't really say you love
Speaker 5: someone unless you are willing to look at the whole
Speaker 5: of that person. They're good, they're bad, they're failures, their successes.
Speaker 5: I don't think that he became the person that he
Speaker 5: wanted to become for many reasons. I think that there
Speaker 5: were times that life hit him so hard and he
Speaker 5: was so discouraged that he couldn't bounce back. He was
Speaker 5: afraid to say yes to life many times, and I
Speaker 5: think that that was one of his greatest regrets.
Speaker 1: Do you feel, because we've been talking about reparations in
Speaker 1: the United States, that black people are kind of like
Speaker 1: in this really unholy marriage, that they feel the same way.
Speaker 1: That is very difficult to walk away from something that's
Speaker 1: not working for them, that actually harms them, that can
Speaker 1: actually do harm to them, continues to and they are
Speaker 1: unwilling to because of their ultimate humanity, or what do
Speaker 1: you think is going on there?
Speaker 5: I think we stayed for very complex reasons, just as
Speaker 5: one would stay in a marriage for very complex reasons.
Speaker 5: And most of us have come to realize the sacrifice
Speaker 5: and the toll that our four parents paid in their
Speaker 5: own blood. And to walk away from this country, and
Speaker 5: no matter how hateful and onerous it may be, to
Speaker 5: walk away would be to ignore their sacrifice, to say
Speaker 5: that it was in vain. That is the way I feel.
Speaker 5: They were not paid, but they built a country, they
Speaker 5: fought for a country, shed their blood, and were treating
Speaker 5: it less than human beings. If I walked away before
Speaker 5: their descendants had gotten their due in every way by
Speaker 5: having a full measure, that would be the greatest dishonoring
Speaker 5: of their sacrifice. So yes, I say, And I can't
Speaker 5: just live on the laurels and say my four parent sacrifice.
Speaker 5: It means that I must constantly work. There is a
Speaker 5: scripture in the Bible says you must work out your
Speaker 5: soul's salvation. So to me staying in this country, contributing
Speaker 5: to it, seeing saying to it, no matter what you
Speaker 5: do to me, how you dishonor me. I will honor
Speaker 5: what belongs to me. If we walk away and it
Speaker 5: said we're giving up on this country. It's never going
Speaker 5: to be what it should be, then all of that
Speaker 5: would be lost. We can't allow that.
Speaker 1: Lastly, I want to talk to you about morality to
Speaker 1: America's personal responsibility and immorality and moral calling that they
Speaker 1: put in their constitution. What would you say to the
Speaker 1: government now that they have the opportunity to step forward
Speaker 1: into that light? What is the forward motion for us
Speaker 1: all for America? The government? Morality and immorality.
Speaker 5: Well, there is a lesson that we need to reckon.
Speaker 5: America taluts itself as being a Christian country in large part,
Speaker 5: but we seem to have lost our moral pompous and
Speaker 5: now the word democracy is threatened. You're hearing people say
Speaker 5: that our constitution is outdated. You're hearing people say that
Speaker 5: it's all right if one particular group are our majority group,
Speaker 5: does whatever they wish, that the ends justify the means,
Speaker 5: and that the God that we have created and is
Speaker 5: not the one that has created us, and we seem
Speaker 5: to serve that God, to prefer to serve that God,
Speaker 5: then the one that says to us, love your enemy.
Speaker 5: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Speaker 5: Be just toward every man. Stand fast in the faith
Speaker 5: that was once delivered to you by your ancestors. Teach
Speaker 5: your children what I have done for you, and to
Speaker 5: you how I brought you, so that they will worship
Speaker 5: me and they will recognize the hand of God. All
Speaker 5: of those things are in the Bible, setting a light
Speaker 5: a path for us. But we have chosen to create
Speaker 5: our own God, one of gold, one of silver, one
Speaker 5: that says, take what you wish. It doesn't matter if
Speaker 5: the other fella starves, It doesn't matter if the other
Speaker 5: fella doesn't have a home. That's our morality. Now. Our
Speaker 5: morality is, don't worry about righteousness getting you into a kingdom.
Speaker 5: You can always buy Peter at the gate anyway. Who
Speaker 5: believes in heaven anymore? Our heaven is right here, and
Speaker 5: we can make hell for those folks whenever we want to.
Speaker 5: So now they say, oh, you can't protest anymore because
Speaker 5: it's getting dangerous from me, Not because you don't have
Speaker 5: a right to your voice. You don't have a right
Speaker 5: to any action that says you can take what belongs
Speaker 5: to you. We say survival of the fittest, but we
Speaker 5: don't want to test the fitness of certain people. You know,
Speaker 5: we have a morality that says one thing does another.
Speaker 5: The Native Americans said, we speak with the four tongues.
Speaker 5: I sometimes say we speak from both orifices, and none
Speaker 5: of that is beneficial. So I think that America is
Speaker 5: soon coming to the time when she will be called
Speaker 5: to redeem herself or to fight for whatever new existence
Speaker 5: that she's says she wants to maintain. You know, you
Speaker 5: will either give in and say that the people of
Speaker 5: all races, all stresses of life, you have a right
Speaker 5: to exist and we will live in peace, or we
Speaker 5: will say no, you will be annihilated, and only as
Speaker 5: they say that krem day like crime will survive, and
Speaker 5: we'll see. I think we're fast coming to that place.
Speaker 1: Mom, one last thing, Could you sing a little bit
Speaker 1: of the star spangled banner?
Speaker 5: Oh say? Can you see by the doge?
Speaker 4: This podcast is produced by Eric Alexander ben Arnon and
Speaker 4: Whitney Down.
Speaker 2: The executive producers are Charlemagne the God and Dolly s. Bishop.
Speaker 2: The supervising producer is Nicole Childers.
Speaker 4: And the lead producer is Devin Mavock Robbins, the producer
Speaker 4: writer is cersee Castle, and the associate producer is Kevin Fann,
Speaker 4: with additional research support.
Speaker 2: Provided by Nile Blast. Original music by dj dpp.
Speaker 1: Oh Gom Step Back, Mahelia, a Star's Board, Hach Reparations.
Speaker 1: The Big Payback is a production of color Farm Media,
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Podcast Network in association with
Speaker 1: Best Case Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
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