1
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,080
Speaker 1: Having good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from

2
00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 1: personal experience. I was sixteen when my father passed away.

3
00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,600
Speaker 1: We didn't have any money. He didn't leave us in

4
00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:14,000
Speaker 1: the best shape. My mother single mother, now widow, myself

5
00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:15,880
Speaker 1: sixteen trying to figure out how am I going to

6
00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,079
Speaker 1: pay for college and lo and behold, my dad had

7
00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,320
Speaker 1: one life insurance policy that we found wasn't a lot,

8
00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,360
Speaker 1: but it was important at the time, and it's why

9
00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,720
Speaker 1: I was able to go to college. Little did he

10
00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,560
Speaker 1: know how important that would be in that moment. Well,

11
00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:34,760
Speaker 1: guess what. That's why I am here to tell you

12
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,720
Speaker 1: about Etho's life. They can provide you with peace of

13
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,159
Speaker 1: mind knowing your family is protected even if the worst

14
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,160
Speaker 1: comes to pass. Ethos is an online platform that makes

15
00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,800
Speaker 1: getting life insurance fast and easy, all designed to protect

16
00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,400
Speaker 1: your family's future in minutes, not months. There's no complicated

17
00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,320
Speaker 1: process and it's one hundred percent online. There's no medical

18
00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,640
Speaker 1: exam require you just answer a few health questions online.

19
00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:00,640
Speaker 1: You can get a quote and it's a little ten minutes,

20
00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,760
Speaker 1: and you can get same day coverage without ever leaving

21
00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,759
Speaker 1: your home. You can get up to three million dollars

22
00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:08,920
Speaker 1: in coverage and some policies start as low as two

23
00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,120
Speaker 1: dollars a day that would be billed monthly. As of

24
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,240
Speaker 1: March twenty twenty five, Business Insider named Ethos the number

25
00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:19,679
Speaker 1: one no medical exam instant life insurance provider. So protect

26
00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,080
Speaker 1: your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get your free

27
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,440
Speaker 1: quoted Ethos dot com slash chuck. So again that's Ethos

28
00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:32,080
Speaker 1: dot com slash chuck. Application times may vary and the

29
00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,319
Speaker 1: rates themselves may vary as well, but trust me, life

30
00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,560
Speaker 1: insurance is something you should really think about, especially if

31
00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:44,200
Speaker 1: you've got a growing family. So joining me now to

32
00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,720
Speaker 1: talk a little bit of what's going on at the

33
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,480
Speaker 1: Department of Justice, what Supreme Court ruling should we be

34
00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,840
Speaker 1: over the next few weeks and few months. And it's

35
00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,040
Speaker 1: somebody that I always learn a lot from when I

36
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 1: either hear her or read her. It is Sarah Isker

37
00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,800
Speaker 1: of The Dispatch. She is does a legal podcast, the

38
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,200
Speaker 1: Legal Newsletter. At this point, how involved are you with

39
00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:10,160
Speaker 1: the scotis Blog?

40
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,160
Speaker 2: By the way, I am the editor of Scotus Blog.

41
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,320
Speaker 2: We have a lot of new exciting changes coming out.

42
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,440
Speaker 2: I also have a new book coming out called The

43
00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,120
Speaker 2: Last Branch Standing, which will be sort of a fun

44
00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,799
Speaker 2: deep dive into the Supreme Court and explainer. So, yeah,

45
00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:25,600
Speaker 2: we're all I think.

46
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,840
Speaker 1: That's cute that you think I think that's cute. You

47
00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:29,400
Speaker 1: think the judicirry branch is standing.

48
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,760
Speaker 2: If you accept that premise, you have to accept that premise. No,

49
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:35,639
Speaker 2: I mean, the title comes from the idea that it's

50
00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,680
Speaker 2: the last branch that the founders would recognize, that Congress

51
00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,840
Speaker 2: has sort of disappeared off of.

52
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:47,480
Speaker 1: The you know, or what the founders thought it would

53
00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:48,640
Speaker 1: be or could be or should be.

54
00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,880
Speaker 2: No, And that the presidency, that the sort of enlarged

55
00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,280
Speaker 2: tyrannical presidency that they were concerned about, actually has come

56
00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,960
Speaker 2: to fruition, but like to an even larger extent than

57
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,000
Speaker 2: they could have imagined because of the administrative state in

58
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,480
Speaker 2: all of these agencies, and the branch that they would recognize,

59
00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,560
Speaker 2: for all of its faults and foibles would be the

60
00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,760
Speaker 2: Supreme Court. That that looks about right in its current

61
00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:15,240
Speaker 2: role in American government.

62
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:22,239
Speaker 1: In isolation, is that good? But when you in combination

63
00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,520
Speaker 1: with the strengthening and then weakening of the other two branches,

64
00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:27,640
Speaker 1: is that bad.

65
00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,720
Speaker 2: So I am very hopeful about this Supreme Court term

66
00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,840
Speaker 2: because I think the Supreme Court has an unusual opportunity

67
00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,160
Speaker 2: to rebalance the other two branches. When you think about

68
00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,760
Speaker 2: the two biggest cases from this term, it's the Tariff

69
00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,760
Speaker 2: case and the Slaughter case about independent agencies.

70
00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,120
Speaker 1: Right, and both are about executive overreach or executive authority

71
00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,240
Speaker 1: depending on your point of view, right.

72
00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,000
Speaker 2: And so I think that if you sort of combine

73
00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,600
Speaker 2: those cases together, what you could have from the Supreme

74
00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,160
Speaker 2: Court are two rulings saying in the ar case, for instance,

75
00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,760
Speaker 2: Congress do your job. The President does not have the

76
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:09,000
Speaker 2: power to go find old, vague statutes and read in,

77
00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,880
Speaker 2: you know, sort of new turbocharged powers like we thought,

78
00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:18,600
Speaker 2: for instance, even during the Biden administration, eviction moratorium, vaccine mandate,

79
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,640
Speaker 2: student loan, debt, forgiveness, all things that Congress can do.

80
00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,400
Speaker 2: What the Supreme Court said is that the president can't

81
00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,200
Speaker 2: sort of conjure those powers from old statutes. We expect

82
00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:32,880
Speaker 2: Congress to actually say that clearly and explicitly. Same with

83
00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,359
Speaker 2: the tariff power potentially, and on the flip side, with

84
00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,000
Speaker 2: the Slaughter case of independent agencies, they could say, look,

85
00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,719
Speaker 2: we're going to give the president. Sorry, look we're going

86
00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,920
Speaker 2: to limit the president to the powers that have been

87
00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:51,480
Speaker 2: explicitly given to it from Congress. But also the president

88
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 2: is in charge of the executive branch. All of those

89
00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,040
Speaker 2: powers come directly from him. So we're going to give

90
00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,599
Speaker 2: the president more power over the people who execute the laws,

91
00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:05,640
Speaker 2: but give those people a lot less power and make Congress,

92
00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,360
Speaker 2: you know, bigger and more accountable to people.

93
00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,640
Speaker 1: So he may be able to fire more executive branch employees.

94
00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,599
Speaker 1: So the authority over the FED, or the authority over

95
00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:21,479
Speaker 1: the National Labor Relations Board, but what those entities can

96
00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:27,200
Speaker 1: do as regulators will be limited to literally what the

97
00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,480
Speaker 1: text of the bill that Congress passed said exactly.

98
00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:32,960
Speaker 2: So you know, if you think of our sort of

99
00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,680
Speaker 2: constitutional car and Chief Justice Roberts driving in the front seat,

100
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,320
Speaker 2: he is, you know, looking back and saying, you know, Congress,

101
00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,599
Speaker 2: quit breathing on the president, mister President, quit poking Congress,

102
00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,760
Speaker 2: or I'm going to turn this constitution right around, like

103
00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,080
Speaker 2: really separate the branches, and you know you have to

104
00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,599
Speaker 2: put a pillow in between them, so be it. But

105
00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,480
Speaker 2: they you know, Congress is legislating, the executive is executing.

106
00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,320
Speaker 2: And right now we have this muddle where the president

107
00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,800
Speaker 2: has been legislating a little bit too, executing a little bit.

108
00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:07,280
Speaker 2: That's why you have in these independent agencies they are prosecutor, judge,

109
00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,479
Speaker 2: fact finder, all of those things. And then you have

110
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,560
Speaker 2: Congress meddling saying, you know, you can't remove all of

111
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,039
Speaker 2: these different people. So that if you, as a voter,

112
00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:19,800
Speaker 2: are thinking this is the most important election of my

113
00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,760
Speaker 2: lifetime to vote for president, you think the president actually

114
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,520
Speaker 2: has control over large swaths of the economy that in

115
00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,040
Speaker 2: reality he doesn't at all, because Congress has put those

116
00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,760
Speaker 2: limitations on his ability to put people in who could

117
00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,080
Speaker 2: actually be accountable.

118
00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,039
Speaker 1: So I share your optimism that this Supreme Court is

119
00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,760
Speaker 1: likely to rule in both of those directions. It's if

120
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,719
Speaker 1: you listen to the arguments, it is where you can

121
00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,120
Speaker 1: see I think a six y three or even seven

122
00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,440
Speaker 1: to two majority on the teriff authority maybe you know,

123
00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,240
Speaker 1: maybe probably not eighty one. It does feel like there

124
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,560
Speaker 1: are two people there that are pretty loyal to the

125
00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,920
Speaker 1: president or pretty empathetic to the President's point of view.

126
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,719
Speaker 1: But and then on the probably somewhere lower of five

127
00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:10,240
Speaker 1: four six three on the other one. But let's just contemplate,

128
00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,800
Speaker 1: what if you and I are wrong, right, and what

129
00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:20,560
Speaker 1: if this court does give it. How dire do you

130
00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,400
Speaker 1: believe that is to the future of the equilibrium between

131
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:25,200
Speaker 1: the three branches.

132
00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,080
Speaker 2: I think the biggest constitutional threat we face right now

133
00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,440
Speaker 2: will surprise a lot of people because I actually think

134
00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,040
Speaker 2: it is the evaporation of Congress.

135
00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,640
Speaker 1: I completely agree. Yeah, the weakening of Congress is weakened

136
00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,200
Speaker 1: the democracy absolutely.

137
00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,640
Speaker 2: And it's thriving all of the other problems that I

138
00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,800
Speaker 2: think people seem more in front of their faces. But

139
00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,800
Speaker 2: the you know, presidency on steroids is driven by the

140
00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,520
Speaker 2: weakening of Congress because problems pile up and voters are like,

141
00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,880
Speaker 2: why isn't anyone doing anything about this? And the President's like, oh,

142
00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,200
Speaker 2: I'll try something. He gets the press release, the Rose

143
00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,440
Speaker 2: Garden Address, all the activists are like, yay, the president

144
00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,800
Speaker 2: helped our side without any compromise, without any of the

145
00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:14,160
Speaker 2: stability of legislation, and then either a court strikes it

146
00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,440
Speaker 2: down a couple of years later, not saying that it

147
00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,280
Speaker 2: can't be done, just saying that Congress has to do it,

148
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,760
Speaker 2: that a president acting alone can't do it, or four

149
00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,239
Speaker 2: years later a new president comes in and it's gone

150
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,560
Speaker 2: on day one. And what's shocking to me is that

151
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,320
Speaker 2: you have this activist class that I think are vital

152
00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,360
Speaker 2: to our democracy, totally fine with that that they still

153
00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,000
Speaker 2: cheer on when a president does a thing that they like,

154
00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,520
Speaker 2: without any regard to the fact that that won't solve

155
00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,559
Speaker 2: the problem long term because it's going to be gone.

156
00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:44,880
Speaker 3: Sir.

157
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:50,439
Speaker 1: That's such an excellent point as how ignorant. Either they're ignorant, naive,

158
00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:56,440
Speaker 1: or they've just given up congressional authority. But if you're

159
00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,199
Speaker 1: an activist and you care about these things, the president

160
00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:04,319
Speaker 1: sees the lead important aspect to your goal. It is,

161
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,600
Speaker 1: if you can't get legislation paths to support your what

162
00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,760
Speaker 1: you want to get done, a president, all they can

163
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,640
Speaker 1: do is maybe use a tourniquet, right, maybe there's a

164
00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,560
Speaker 1: band aid. You know, you can sort of, you know,

165
00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,800
Speaker 1: keep an open wound from bleeding. But that's about it.

166
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,000
Speaker 1: You know, you're not going to be able to actually

167
00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,720
Speaker 1: have surgery be healed any of those things. And yet

168
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:34,520
Speaker 1: activities climate CONTINUU continue to want these essentially photo ops

169
00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,840
Speaker 1: with presidents rather than solutions out of Congress.

170
00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,760
Speaker 2: You think about climate change, the Obama administration has their

171
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,000
Speaker 2: Clean Power Plan that they do again alone, based on

172
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,400
Speaker 2: a vague statute from Congress. The Trump administration comes in,

173
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,920
Speaker 2: gets rid of it. The Biden administration comes in, doesn't

174
00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,880
Speaker 2: just reinstitute the Obama one, they have their own. Then

175
00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,079
Speaker 2: the Trump administration comes in and gets rid of it.

176
00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,680
Speaker 2: This whole time, it's sitting bogged down in the courts

177
00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,720
Speaker 2: as well. And if you wanted to actually address climate change,

178
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,400
Speaker 2: you cannot do it in four year increments, and you

179
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,080
Speaker 2: cannot do it with changing every four year policies. You

180
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,120
Speaker 2: have to have congressional legislation. And yes, that means you

181
00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,720
Speaker 2: will not get everything you want. That's what I think

182
00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,200
Speaker 2: created this problem in the first place is that progressive era.

183
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,199
Speaker 2: And I don't mean progressives, right, I mean the Teddy

184
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,600
Speaker 2: Roosevelt Wilson era. This idea that Congress was so slow

185
00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,520
Speaker 2: and compromising, and these dumb dums getting elected to the

186
00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,600
Speaker 2: House of Representatives. They don't know anything, and there are

187
00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:41,240
Speaker 2: these answers and truths if only we had experts involved

188
00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,880
Speaker 2: to do them. And there's a fundamental failure in that

189
00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:45,959
Speaker 2: that I think we've learned over the last hundred years,

190
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,000
Speaker 2: which is trade offs. And that's what you need self

191
00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,560
Speaker 2: representative democracy to do, is to decide those trade offs.

192
00:10:53,400 --> 00:11:01,280
Speaker 1: I get so tired of hearing an activist or a

193
00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,960
Speaker 1: do gooder. Sometimes sometimes they're do gooders and sometimes they

194
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,720
Speaker 1: you know, they're out for themselves. But either way they're

195
00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,160
Speaker 1: so dismissive of Congress or the average member of Congress. Right,

196
00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,080
Speaker 1: and you're just sitting there going, yeah, this is by design,

197
00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:19,600
Speaker 1: jack asss Okay, like the idea is yes, the wisdom

198
00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,200
Speaker 1: of the crowd of Congress actually is helpful. Now, Look,

199
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,400
Speaker 1: Congress is broken. It is not very representative of the

200
00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,720
Speaker 1: people that elect them. Because, frankly, I think, you know,

201
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,120
Speaker 1: I'll get on one of my hobby horses. I think

202
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,240
Speaker 1: Congress is too small. I think it needs to be

203
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,000
Speaker 1: twice the size. I think congressional districts are way too big. Right,

204
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,720
Speaker 1: the average congressional district is now the size of a

205
00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,840
Speaker 1: major city. And there is never there isn't that one.

206
00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,840
Speaker 1: The city of Austin is not a single community of interest,

207
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:51,680
Speaker 1: and yet we are. And that's and they're the fifteenth

208
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:53,840
Speaker 1: largest city in America, which is about eight hundred thousand people,

209
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,760
Speaker 1: which is about the size of a congressional district if

210
00:11:57,760 --> 00:11:59,800
Speaker 1: you cut it in half, if you went to and

211
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:01,760
Speaker 1: I think we need a constitutional amendment to sort of

212
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:06,439
Speaker 1: guarantee a maximum size of a congressional district. I think

213
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,880
Speaker 1: it's point zero zero zero one percent of the population.

214
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,240
Speaker 1: That's what one four hundred would give you right now,

215
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,600
Speaker 1: and one for four hundred would you know that's the

216
00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,720
Speaker 1: size of Arlington, Texas well. Guess what Arlington, a suburb

217
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,600
Speaker 1: of Dallas and Fort Worth, strikes me as a community

218
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,240
Speaker 1: of interests And that is ultimately what the goal was

219
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,160
Speaker 1: in creating these congressional districts is that you create communities

220
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,840
Speaker 1: of interest. Sometimes those are by identities, sometimes they are

221
00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,240
Speaker 1: by where you live. But you know the definition of

222
00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,120
Speaker 1: community of interest. Obviously as a wide you know, you

223
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,240
Speaker 1: can you can sort of drive a truck through it.

224
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,280
Speaker 1: But these districts are too big, so then you only

225
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,280
Speaker 1: need a faction in order to in order to represent them,

226
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,679
Speaker 1: which is why it feels like Congress itself isn't very representative.

227
00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,560
Speaker 2: A thousand times yes, and I know you know this,

228
00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,320
Speaker 2: but this actually was one of the first amendments that

229
00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:00,320
Speaker 2: was proposed for the Bill of Rights and two. There

230
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,160
Speaker 2: were twelve amendments proposed. Ten of them obviously get ratified,

231
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,880
Speaker 2: one gets ratified later. So actually it's the only one

232
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:09,800
Speaker 2: that didn't make it in the end, which is sort

233
00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,720
Speaker 2: of sad because I think you're exactly right. I think

234
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,080
Speaker 2: there's a few things broken with Congress. One, as you say,

235
00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,920
Speaker 2: they're too big. They cannot actually be representative government because

236
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,400
Speaker 2: you can't meet with your constituents. You can't even represent

237
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,319
Speaker 2: your constituents because they're not a community.

238
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,320
Speaker 1: Interest, not near it. When you're near a million, you

239
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:28,920
Speaker 1: just can't.

240
00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,160
Speaker 2: I would probably even increase the size more than two times.

241
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,840
Speaker 2: I think we're probably nearing the three times as large size.

242
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,679
Speaker 2: I think we're in like a twelve hundred type vicinity

243
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,160
Speaker 2: at this point. And yes, that would change all sorts

244
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,000
Speaker 2: of other things about how Congress meets and votes. But

245
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,160
Speaker 2: at this point, again you talk about trade offs. I

246
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,240
Speaker 2: think we are well aware of what the trade offs are,

247
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,000
Speaker 2: and I think the current tradeoff is poor that people

248
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,280
Speaker 2: are not actually represented. There's a few other things, though,

249
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,160
Speaker 2: that have caused this one, as I mentioned, was the

250
00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,720
Speaker 2: administrative state. This idea that experts are the sir, and

251
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,560
Speaker 2: that has let Congress off the hook. They can just say,

252
00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:08,839
Speaker 2: like I want the EPA to make clean water law,

253
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,480
Speaker 2: but they don't actually have to make any of those

254
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,400
Speaker 2: tough decisions themselves that would be that they could be

255
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,400
Speaker 2: held politically accountable for, and so the bureaucrat. I'm not

256
00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,880
Speaker 2: using that termin a pejorative. What I mean by that

257
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,480
Speaker 2: is a protected person inside of bureaucracy is making decisions

258
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,080
Speaker 2: over what it means to have clean water. And in

259
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,920
Speaker 2: the meantime, a member of Congress, then you know, you

260
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:35,160
Speaker 2: can't primary them on that they did this trade off poorly,

261
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,480
Speaker 2: that they you know, made it too difficult to build

262
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,120
Speaker 2: new housing, for instance, which is a problem we definitely

263
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,000
Speaker 2: have right now. The third issue I think is campaign

264
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,600
Speaker 2: finance reform. I think part of what we saw. I

265
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,440
Speaker 2: supported BIKRA in two thousand and two, the bipartisan campaign

266
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,400
Speaker 2: reformat that was called McCain Fengel. I thought that sounded

267
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,680
Speaker 2: like a great idea, but I didn't think they're the

268
00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,520
Speaker 2: trade offs, Chuck, which were that large job don't parties.

269
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:06,040
Speaker 2: Destroys destroyed the parties. Large dollar donors weren't representative, But

270
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,520
Speaker 2: you know who's even less representative, small dollar donors. We

271
00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,560
Speaker 2: destroyed the two political parties. We've replaced political parties that

272
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,120
Speaker 2: could at least have carrots and sticks for their members.

273
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,560
Speaker 2: They could have policy platforms, they would tend towards moderation

274
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,840
Speaker 2: to represent the most media and voter because they had

275
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,960
Speaker 2: an interest to get to fifty one percent. We replaced

276
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,320
Speaker 2: that with small dollar donors. Only about two percent of

277
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,000
Speaker 2: Americans will ever give a buck to any member of

278
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,800
Speaker 2: anything to run for office. They tend to respond to

279
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 2: anger and outrage and incendiary stuff, and more importantly, they

280
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,280
Speaker 2: tend to respond to like stuff they see clips of

281
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,040
Speaker 2: on social media. And so members of Congress are no

282
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,440
Speaker 2: longer going to like town halls and rubber chicken dinners.

283
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 2: They're just all day long posting shit on their reels

284
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,080
Speaker 2: and watching the money come in. And the last thing

285
00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,000
Speaker 2: that I know you also care about is leadership change

286
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,560
Speaker 2: in Congress. During Gingrich and Pelosi, they really changed. I

287
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,240
Speaker 2: mean back in the eighties, it would be like a

288
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,840
Speaker 2: household name who the chairman of Ways and Memes was,

289
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:10,680
Speaker 2: because that was a really powerful job.

290
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:16,120
Speaker 1: Look, Bob Packwood and Dan Rostenkowski wanted to do tax reform,

291
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,840
Speaker 1: and so did the Reagan White House. The Reagan White

292
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,440
Speaker 1: House didn't work with Senate Majority Leader Bob byrd And

293
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,480
Speaker 1: and Speaker Foley at the time. I believe her Speaker

294
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,040
Speaker 1: right or back then it might have been Speaker O'Neil.

295
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,840
Speaker 1: Even when they did eighty six tax reform. You know,

296
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 1: Packwood and Rossty called the shots, right they were the

297
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,120
Speaker 1: Packwood was the big Senate Finance This was a Republican

298
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 1: so this had been Dole's Senate Republican leadership period. But

299
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 1: they got to call the shot and it wasn't. And

300
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,720
Speaker 1: in fact, remember there was a small period during Obama

301
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:54,200
Speaker 1: and Obama and Pelosi basically broke it and read. But

302
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:59,560
Speaker 1: remember when Grassley and Bacchus actually tried to sort of

303
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,600
Speaker 1: flex the muscles of the Senate Finance Committee during a

304
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,200
Speaker 1: healthcare and Bachus and Grassly looked like that they were

305
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:12,040
Speaker 1: going to sort of be a bulwark in trying to hey,

306
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,960
Speaker 1: let's not let this get partisanized. Let's make sure that

307
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,600
Speaker 1: you know, we run this as the Senate PI. And

308
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,320
Speaker 1: they both had their own legacies in mind and trying

309
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 1: to see if they could solve healthcare. And then everything

310
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,400
Speaker 1: became partisan, right the town halls happened. Grassy backs off

311
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,119
Speaker 1: because he's afraid of the politics of it. He was

312
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,840
Speaker 1: right about that the politics are going to be bad

313
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,040
Speaker 1: for him, so he got out of the way. Of

314
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:37,800
Speaker 1: that freight train which would have come for him. He

315
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,439
Speaker 1: wouldn't have won a primary. He'd have gone. I mean,

316
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,199
Speaker 1: if he had been the Republican that signed off on Obamacare,

317
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:44,840
Speaker 1: you and I both know it. You know, he'd have

318
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,639
Speaker 1: been out of office for the last fifteen years. So

319
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,920
Speaker 1: he wasn't wrong about understanding that. But that was when.

320
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,720
Speaker 1: That was the last time any committee chair and ranking

321
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,680
Speaker 1: member ever flexed muscle. And you haven't seen it since.

322
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,600
Speaker 2: Oh, you have like three people in the House who

323
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,040
Speaker 2: actually can move legislation. I mean, if you want to, I.

324
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,679
Speaker 1: Think it's two. Yeah, I think it's really too I

325
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,320
Speaker 1: just think there's four. I think there are four people

326
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,119
Speaker 1: that run Congress. It's the two leaders of each of

327
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:20,600
Speaker 1: each chamber. And that's it. Like what committee chair punches

328
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,719
Speaker 1: above their weight anymore? Can you name one?

329
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,359
Speaker 2: And so that leaves us with four hundred and thirty

330
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 2: three backbenchers.

331
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,920
Speaker 1: Five hundred and thirty one backbenchures. I would argue, I

332
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,280
Speaker 1: think the Senate, if you're not in leadership, what are

333
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,600
Speaker 1: you doing other than raising money on social media?

334
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,840
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I would basically say you're you're like

335
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,560
Speaker 2: puppies chewing the furniture like we haven't given them a job,

336
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,960
Speaker 2: and these are working dogs. And you see the result

337
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:47,800
Speaker 2: of that isn't just that it changes the behavior of

338
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,879
Speaker 2: those in Congress. It changes who is in Congress. And

339
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,880
Speaker 2: the people who actually were interested in legislating have retired

340
00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,040
Speaker 2: or left, and the people who.

341
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,159
Speaker 1: You know what, Michael Bennett's ready for governor. Yeah, you

342
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,640
Speaker 1: know exactly, because the Senate doesn't work. And I've been

343
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,280
Speaker 1: I've had a relationship with him for a long time

344
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 1: because I've worked with this brother very closely at the

345
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,200
Speaker 1: Atlantic back in the day, and so I and you know,

346
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,399
Speaker 1: it frustrated him. He was working with Bob Corker and

347
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 1: some legislation and then he was told by the Senate

348
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,040
Speaker 1: Democrats leadership, you shouldn't be working with him. And He's

349
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,040
Speaker 1: just like, what the hell am I supposed to be

350
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,640
Speaker 1: doing here? You know, he was like, And Corker got

351
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 1: the same lecture. Corker was told stop working with Warner

352
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 1: and Bennett on financial reform. This was back during Dot

353
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,560
Speaker 1: Frank right, and it was like Corker and Warner were

354
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,360
Speaker 1: really into it because they were kind of their own

355
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:45,120
Speaker 1: little experts on this specific topic. And McConnell and Reid

356
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 1: were telling them stop helping the other guy, stop working

357
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,359
Speaker 1: with the other guy. It's just crazy what's happened.

358
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,160
Speaker 2: And so, I mean, you think about, like you're running

359
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,280
Speaker 2: in a primary. What's the difference between the guy who

360
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,639
Speaker 2: spent you know, was up all night for weeks and

361
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:03,439
Speaker 2: weeks writing legislation and to solve healthcare, immigration, you name it,

362
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,639
Speaker 2: some of our biggest problems. That legislation never saw the

363
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 2: light of day. What's there between that guy and the

364
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,399
Speaker 2: one who sat on Fox News and complained about the

365
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,360
Speaker 2: other side. The guy on Fox News raised more money,

366
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,560
Speaker 2: he wins that primary. And so I've talked to members

367
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 2: who are coming in and they're not hiring legislative staff anymore.

368
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 2: They just hire more bookers and more social media peaple.

369
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,120
Speaker 1: Remember when we laughed at Madison Cawthorne when he said

370
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 1: for his single term in Congress, well, the only thing

371
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 1: that staff that matters is a communication staff. And we

372
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 1: all thought, oh, and you're like, he's not wrong, and

373
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,119
Speaker 1: if you're a backbenure member of the House, all that matters.

374
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 1: I mean, Nancy Mace saw that, and she you know,

375
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,879
Speaker 1: you know she would she made a b line for

376
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 1: people like me back when I was, you know, seen

377
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 1: as as as the way in onto television, and that

378
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 1: was the only reason she had any interest in chatting

379
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 1: with me to get on TV. It was always about

380
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 1: getting on TV. And she was not wrong. I mean,

381
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: she's only considered a viable candidate for governor because she

382
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,199
Speaker 1: has such a public presence that she has created for

383
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 1: so we some of us are a little bit old school,

384
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 1: probably think, I don't think you have the best public

385
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 1: persona anymore because of your public presence. And yet has

386
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 1: that been a total has that totally ended her political career?

387
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 1: Doesn't look like it, No.

388
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 2: Because name idea at this point is so important for

389
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,919
Speaker 2: that other reason we mentioned, which is the death of

390
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 2: the political parties. The political parties would have shut down

391
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 2: Nancy Mace's ability to do any of that. And look,

392
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 2: the list is long. Lauren Bobert, Marjorie Taylor Green AOC.

393
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,400
Speaker 2: You know, there's endless numbers of people who would be

394
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 2: nothing backbenchers with no power, right but for no political

395
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 2: parties anymore. And by the way, for people listening to

396
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 2: that who are thinking that makes no sense. Everything's really partisan.

397
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 1: Aha, Oh it's my favorite riddle.

398
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very counterintuitive that we killed off the political

399
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 2: party and that increase negative polarization.

400
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 1: Do you hate hangovers, We'll say goodbye to hangovers. Out

401
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 1: of Office gives you the social buzz without the next

402
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 1: day regret. They're best selling. Out of Office gummies were designed

403
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 1: to provide a mild, relaxing buzz, boost your mood, and

404
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 1: enhance creativity and relaxation. With five different strengths, you can

405
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 1: tailor the dose to fit your vibe. From a gentle

406
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: one point five milligram micro doose to their newest fifteen

407
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 1: milligram gummy for a more elevated experience. Their THHC beverages

408
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: and gummies are a modern, mindful alternative to a glass

409
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: of wine or a cocktail. And I'll tell you this,

410
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,239
Speaker 1: I've given up booze. I don't like the hangovers. I

411
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 1: prefer the gummy experience. Soul is a wellness brand that

412
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,440
Speaker 1: believes feeling good should be fun and easy. Soul specializes

413
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 1: in delicious hemp derived THHC and CBD products, all designed

414
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,199
Speaker 1: to boost your mood and simply help you unwine so

415
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 1: if you struggle to switch off at night. Soul also

416
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: has a variety of products specifically designed to just simply

417
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: help you get a better night's sleep, including their top

418
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: selling sleepy gummies. It's a fan favorite for deep restorative sleep.

419
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 1: So bring on the good vibes and treat yourself to

420
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: Soul today. Right now, Soul is offering my audience thirty

421
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,360
Speaker 1: percent off your entire order. So go to get sold

422
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 1: dot com use the promo code toodcast. Don't forget that code.

423
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: That's getsold dot Com promo code toodcast for thirty percent off. Well,

424
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: we didn't you know, we have all these relief files

425
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 1: that we've not opened up. Right, Relief foul Number one

426
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: would be simply expanding Congress, and due to a partisan

427
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 1: fight nineteen twenty over how many seats to add to

428
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: the House, right, we've shut it down. And that's been

429
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: relief foul, because if you open that relief ful, you'd

430
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 1: get more ideological, geographic, and ethnic diversity just bye bye,

431
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: by just creating a lot, and you'd probably minimize the

432
00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 1: need to jerrymander, and you'd certainly minimize and you'd also, oh,

433
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: by the way, you'd also fix the electoral college, or

434
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have to worry about the popular vote in

435
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: the electoral college split splitaring. The reason why we're getting

436
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: more right, it's more common now for the electoral college

437
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: and the and the popular vote to not be have

438
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: the same winner is because these congressional districts, we haven't

439
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: expanded the electoral vote count since Now.

440
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 3: I never realized that you're exactly right. The denominator keeps

441
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 3: staying the same even as the population grows, and so

442
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 3: we get closer divides and the numerator. That's why it

443
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 3: never happened before.

444
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's like and so we're up to now

445
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: where a Wyoming voter has six times more influence on

446
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: the next president, on the presidential vote than a California voter. Now,

447
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,959
Speaker 1: I think the founders did believe smaller states should have

448
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 1: a tiny bit more sort of station than the larger states,

449
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: because the larger states just by definition, we're always going

450
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: to get have advantages. So, you know, if you just

451
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: used my denominator and went to you know, one perform

452
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: one thousand, you'd have about eight somewhere about eight hundred

453
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 1: and seventy five to little under nine hundred members of Congress.

454
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 1: A Wyoming voter would still have two and a half

455
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: times more voting power for president than a California voter.

456
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 1: That's a hell of a lot better than six x.

457
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, I'm actually pretty in favor of the

458
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 2: electoral college and think that the reasons that we have

459
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 2: it are and were important, but we have done everything

460
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 2: in our power to dismantle its. Main reason for it.

461
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 1: I was just going to say, the whole point of

462
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: it was in case we the people elected basically a

463
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: crook okay, and elected somebody who was or or worse right,

464
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: elected somebody who was basically in in you know, in

465
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: cahoots with another with a foreign power. Right, which is

466
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: which is the real That's what the founders worried about.

467
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: They worried about that. The whole point electoral college, I

468
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: think was about worrying about that that essentially, and back

469
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: then the form power we were concerned about were the British.

470
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still in the I hold a lot of

471
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 2: animosity toward the British and George the Third in particular.

472
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 2: I was giving a speech in London a couple of

473
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: months ago and made a joke about that, and I

474
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 2: got no less.

475
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: So we have forgotten about our anger at King George,

476
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: haven't we? It's too great?

477
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 2: I mean, have you been watching. Did you watch the

478
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: ken Burns American Revolution?

479
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: I am in, I am watching, I am in the

480
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: I am in the midst of it. Yeah, it's it's

481
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: I think he's doing. Look talk about okay, ken Burns,

482
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: you have somehow avoided the culture war polarization. Let's see

483
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: you pull this one off. You're going to do the

484
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: American Revolution? Good luck, brother, I think he's pulling. It's

485
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 1: funny either. Ken Burns has enough sort of capital right

486
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 1: for what he did with the Civil War. I mean

487
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 1: he did the Civil War, he did baseball at Jackie.

488
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: He's handled some of these cultural hot potatoes in other

489
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: times so so well that you know. And at the

490
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: same time he's not hidden his own politics, if you will,

491
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: his own concerns about you know, I frankly feel like

492
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 1: we have such you know, we're not just divided left

493
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: and right. I think we're divided. Are you a constitutionalist

494
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: or are you are you for something you know different right,

495
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 1: a direct democracy or something you know not familiar to

496
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: those of us that are that. Do frankly worship this

497
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,479
Speaker 1: Constitution And I, I borderline say I do in that.

498
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: I don't think it's perfect, but I think we created

499
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 1: as good of a system in a free democratic society

500
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 1: as you can come up with. And the Constitution is

501
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: a really good ballast if we know how to amend

502
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: it and if we know how to use the tools.

503
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 1: But we have these weird divides in that, and I

504
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 1: have to say, boy can good good luck? But it

505
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: looks like so far are I feel like he is?

506
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 1: I feel like he is. If you're a sixty nineteen person,

507
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: you're a seventeen seventy six person, you can't sit here

508
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 1: and say he didn't hear you? How's that?

509
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 2: I think? So it's so funny. You and I went

510
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 2: into it with the same like.

511
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 3: I know.

512
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: I was nervous, shit go ahead, oh no, oh no,

513
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 1: I don't know how's it gonna look? I mean, you know,

514
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 1: even if I agree, like, are people going to like

515
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: cancel him? Here we go?

516
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 2: And I was obsessed with the Civil War documentary, but

517
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 2: we had the cassette tapes and I would listen to

518
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: it on the way to school. I played viola for

519
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 2: a long time and I learned by ear Ashritan Farewell,

520
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 2: the like main you know theme song that they wrote

521
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 2: for that Like I'm It was my audition piece for

522
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: you know, the Houston Civic Symphony. Okay, So I go

523
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 2: into this like loving American history documentaries, thinking Ken Burns

524
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 2: does a great job. I'm scared to death for him

525
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 2: that he has chosen to do this. I totally agree

526
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 2: with you, especially at the beginning where you need to

527
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: establish your credibility for the documentary. I thought he nailed it.

528
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,719
Speaker 2: Not to mention Damian Lewis as George the Third and

529
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: Mandy Patankn as Ben Franklin and Claire Danes as Abigail Adams,

530
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: It's like the cast from Homeland is doing the American Revolution.

531
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 2: I mean there's a lot to love there. You know,

532
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 2: in episodes like as you get later into it, it

533
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 2: gets his biases, isn't even the right way his.

534
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: Passions just a little bit more of what his focus

535
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: wants to be on.

536
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 2: Yes, but you know what I got to tell you, Like,

537
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 2: I'm I'm very conservative, not in the political dynamic we

538
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 2: have right now right or left right, but as you say,

539
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: like sort of constitution worshiping American history.

540
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: I consider myself I call myself a small sea conservative.

541
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: I don't want to be, you know, And I'm also

542
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: a small l liberal. I believe in liberal democracy, and

543
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: I'm a small conservative about how you enact power. Like

544
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: I think if you're going to change the if you're

545
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: going to try to get three hundred and fifty million

546
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: people to follow a law, yeah, goddamn right, it's going

547
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: to take a long time to pass. And I think

548
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: a lot of people have to look at that long. Yeah.

549
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like I'm a free speech lunatic and a burkiean

550
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: minimalist who thinks Edmund Burke like should be worshiped among

551
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 2: our founders.

552
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: Who is our party, Sarah, I don't have a I mean,

553
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: I sider where is this party? Right? I keep you

554
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: know I've got I'm sure you've been chatty with people

555
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: that mess around with The Forward Party has a lot

556
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: sort of excommunicated left and right over there, and it's like,

557
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: I think they kind of want to be the party

558
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: for these people, but at the same time they're also like, well,

559
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: we can't stand for too much yet you know, I.

560
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: Know they stand. Yeah, I mean, we should talk third parties,

561
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 2: but here just on the ken burnstin for my biases,

562
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 2: and they are biases. I've learned a lot watching it,

563
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 2: and I don't think there's any higher compliment that I

564
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: can give than that.

565
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: Do you do Death by Lightning? Oh?

566
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 2: Yes, I did, because that's one of my beat reads

567
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: that I recommend to people, which is Destiny of the

568
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 2: Republic by Candace Millard about the assassination of James Garfield

569
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 2: in eighteen eighty four. It's such a great botter.

570
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: I think there's a better version of the book out there.

571
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: I dare that's Republic, I know, But there's one called

572
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: dark Horse. It's by a gentleman named Ken Ackerman, a

573
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: former Senate staffer, which is what I love about it.

574
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: It's a classic sort of one of us. Okay, and

575
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: I'll you know, he was a total passion project and

576
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: it didn't get It's really well done. He spends a

577
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: lot more time on some of the politics of the

578
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: Republican Party, a lot more on Roscoe Conkling, a lot

579
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: more on that. So there's and you get. I mean,

580
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: it's two books in one. He tries to do everything.

581
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: Look what Candace Millard did was made it a story. Okay,

582
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: she told a great story, which makes it I'll be honest,

583
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: and I have my own I done. I've already expressed

584
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: this to my podcast listening and hear me again, I

585
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: felt I felt like we got the cliff notes version

586
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: and that there was I'm sorry Netflix only allowed them

587
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: to do four episodes. It's worthy of eight to ten

588
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 1: episodes to truly understand the era and like it. Really,

589
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, they just sort of I mean, Roscoe Conkling

590
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: is a simpleton in this in the way they paint him,

591
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: but he was fairly savvy. I mean, this guy was

592
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: McConnell and Pelosi of his day. And you know, he

593
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: was also absolutely a rabbit abolitionist and very pro reconstruction.

594
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: And there's this great scene in a book I read

595
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: about Blanche Bruce who's vaguely touched on in the in

596
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: Death by Lightning, where Blanche Bruce, African American senator from Mississippi,

597
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: his fellow Mississippi senator won't walk with him for the

598
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: opening of Congress, which is a very which was the

599
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: tradition the two senators from the same state wouldn't do

600
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: it because Mississippi was starting to turn on what was happening,

601
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: turn against reconstruction, right, you know, And anyway, you know

602
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: who walked with him, Roscoe Conclic, you know. So, I

603
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,959
Speaker 1: mean it was just sort of like Conkling is a

604
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: complicated figure. He is absolutely a machine boss, all of

605
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: those things. But they painted everything was done in a

606
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: very simplified way of painting everybody, and I'm just sort

607
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: of I'm glad it was popular. I hope this encourages

608
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: Netflix to allow the creators to have done. My guess

609
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: is they truncated an eight to ten episode series into

610
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: four episodes because they didn't think our Field was a draw.

611
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,719
Speaker 1: And it turns out now people are digging this and

612
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: it did really well, so hopefully they won't do that again.

613
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 2: Okay, so here's by the way, I said eighteen eighty four,

614
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 2: I meant eighteen eighty one, the eighteen eighty election. He

615
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 2: gets assassinated eighteen eighty one, because I was anticipating my

616
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 2: next question to you. So, okay, my book, my reading

617
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 2: list starts with Manhunt, which is the search for John

618
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 2: Wilkes Booth, because I think it shows you quite a

619
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 2: bit about Andrew Johnson. Now, they also turned that into

620
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 2: a Netflix series, which is very different than the book.

621
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 1: Very different. But I thought they you know, I thought

622
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: it was going to capture it. Well, here's what I

623
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: do appreciate that manhuntd is you know we have. You know,

624
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 1: sometimes we overly simplify history as we teach it right,

625
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: and we have over time the Lincoln assassination has just

626
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: been about Lincoln when it was an actual conspiracy to

627
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: get rid of Lincoln. Johnson and the Secretary of State

628
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: at the time, and the fact that Seward, sorry, I

629
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: was blanking, so I was waiting for my brain to

630
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: catch up, and so I appreciated that. We sort of

631
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: It's like my pet peeve about how we teach War One.

632
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: We only teach it through the prism of Germany. We

633
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: never teach the fall of the Ottoman Empire, which is

634
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 1: what's created the Middle East mess that we are still

635
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,879
Speaker 1: dealing with today. But we don't teach history that way.

636
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: We only teach it World War One through the prison

637
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: of Germany, and we only teach the booth part of

638
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: the assassination. Well, he was one part of a larger conspiracy,

639
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: but this was a large conspiracy of the Confederacy against

640
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 1: the United States, and Andrew Johnson essentially shut it down,

641
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 1: you know, shut down what would have been a probably

642
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: a bigger deal investigation had we truly embraced it the

643
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: way it should have been.

644
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 2: The past is never dead, it's not even past. Okay,

645
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 2: So you start with Manhunts. I then think you can

646
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: do some Grant autobiography. Then I go to William Rehnquist's

647
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 2: Centennial Crisis about the seventeen seventy how many? Seven seventy?

648
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: How many? Let me stop you in eighteen seventy three.

649
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: First of all, what did you we just glossed over?

650
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 1: You said you could do a Grant memoir. I hear

651
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 1: you on that. What'd you think of? Oh yeah, haven't

652
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: got it. I did it last summer. I finally did

653
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: it last summer. It's really worth it. I learned all

654
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: sorts of stuff that I didn't realize. How close the

655
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 1: Dominican Republic came to being a state, how close we

656
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: came to how the Republicans in Congress were trying to

657
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: essentially extract Canada as reparations for the UK helping the South.

658
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: That was another little interesting story. And Grant was obsessed

659
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: with the Dominican because it was a deep seaport, it

660
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: was going to be a first and so there was

661
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: some thought, and in fact, there was some thought of

662
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: making it essentially the first black state, the first non

663
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 1: white state. Was there was some thought to that anyway,

664
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: there's just a lot of interesting It's very sympathetic to

665
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: Grant that basically he was used by a lot of

666
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: people who used him, which I buy a little bit.

667
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: But there was a little bit of celebrity rifter off

668
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: of him more than it was about him.

669
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Grant's Grant's one of those really interesting figures.

670
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 2: If you want to study the presidency as well, we're

671
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 2: about to go through sort of a well, this is

672
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: my point to you, like, the whole end of the

673
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 2: nineteenth century is kind of a weird time for the

674
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 2: office of the presidency.

675
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: I completely look. The fact is it sounds like you

676
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: and I are about to geek out on the same thing.

677
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,959
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with this period essentially of Grant through really

678
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: Grant through Hearting. I could I could go all the

679
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: way through, because I think it is the case of

680
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 1: history rhyming. Right, we were moving from a Grant, we

681
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: were industrializing. It's essentially as the railroads were beginning, and

682
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,919
Speaker 1: we're in a similar period. Right, you could probably back

683
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: it up to the beginning of the internet, but we've

684
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: been beginning of the Internet is essentially the railroads, and

685
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: then you know, striking oil, and that industrialization is essentially

686
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: AI and social media, and we're really experiencing almost a

687
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 1: parallel set of challenges from the late twentieth early twenty first,

688
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: late nineteenth, early twentieth.

689
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 2: And so my question to you is I drop off

690
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: basically with the eighteen eighty election with Garfield of Destiny

691
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 2: of the Republic. By the way, that you should read

692
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: Centennial Crisis by William Renquist. Listeners, it is the Chief

693
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 2: Justice of the United States.

694
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: Why his book over the others. I've read four different

695
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,839
Speaker 1: versions of eighteen seventy. Of the eighteen seventy six, Brett

696
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 1: Behar wrote one, a couple other historians wrote one, there

697
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 1: was the Renquist one. I will just put it this way,

698
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: whatever your party bias is today as an author is

699
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 1: what is applied to the conclusion drawn by those with

700
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: the eighteenth seventy six. It's funny to me, ultimately everybody

701
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 1: agrees on most of the set of facts. But what's

702
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: interesting is I think the bias of the author dictates

703
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: whether you believe the vote counts. In the South, We're

704
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: either unfair to the Republicans or unfair to the Democrats.

705
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 2: What I like about the Ranquist book is that you're

706
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 2: getting a two fer, right. You're basically getting him to

707
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 2: talk about Bush by Gore, but he can't talk about

708
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 2: Bush b Gore, and so you're doing it through this

709
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 2: eighteen seventy six lens and it's so short, so it's

710
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 2: this tiny little book that you can flip through in

711
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: a night. And Reanquist also writes The Centennial Crisis. After

712
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 2: he's written Grand Inquisitions, he writes grand inquisitions about impeachment

713
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 2: and about the impeachment of Justice Chase, which I'm totally like.

714
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: That is my obsession right now, is the eighteen oh

715
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: five impeachment of Chase. And he writes about the impeachment

716
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 2: of Andrew Johnson, which is so fun because he writes

717
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 2: that before the impeachment of Bill Clinton, so he's about

718
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 2: to be oversea the second impeachment in the history of

719
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 2: the United States of a president and he doesn't know

720
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 2: it when he's writing that book, which is such a

721
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 2: fun read, and so you all that is a good boy.

722
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: I have not thought about going back to that Johnson

723
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: impeachment book and reading that through the prism with that

724
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: in mind.

725
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's so great.

726
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: That's a great thought.

727
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 2: But by the way, the impeachment of Samuel Chase. Samuel

728
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 2: Chase was a justice on the Supreme Court during John

729
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: Marshall's time. Jefferson decides the Supreme Court isn't voting his

730
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 2: way on a bunch of his pet projects. Chase is.

731
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 2: He's a very partisan justice. There's no question about that.

732
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 2: The Supreme Court's term is delayed because he's out campaigning

733
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 2: for John Adams against Thomas Jefferson in that Battle of

734
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 2: eighteen hundred. That's of course in the musical Hamilton. And

735
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 2: so when Jefferson gets into office and Chase is voting

736
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: against him, He's like, efat, let's remove this guy. And

737
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 2: so they impeach Chase. And it really would have been

738
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 2: it was this turning point in American history because Jefferson

739
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 2: had basically said that if they can remove Chase, John

740
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 2: Marshall is next. And it would have so fundamentally changed

741
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 2: that third branch of government into a rubber stamp that

742
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,919
Speaker 2: presidents would have just put in the justices that would

743
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 2: agree with them and agree with their policy proposals, and

744
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 2: you wouldn't have as independent Supreme Court.

745
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you

746
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: by Wildgrain. Wildgrain is the first bake from Frozen subscription

747
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: box for arteasonal breads, seasonal pastries, and fresh pastas, plus

748
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 1: all items conveniently bake in twenty five minutes or less.

749
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 1: Unlike many store bought options, Wild Grain uses simple ingredients

750
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 1: you can pronounce and a slow fermentation process that can

751
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: be easier on your belly and richer in nutrients and antioxidants.

752
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: Wildgrain's boxes are fully customizable. They're constantly adding seasonal and

753
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 1: limited time and products for you to enjoy. In addition

754
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: to their classic box, they now feature a gluten free

755
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: box and a plant based box. I checked out the

756
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: gluten free box and let me tell you, they have

757
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: a gluten free sourdough bread.

758
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 2: It is.

759
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: We got two loads of it and we've done one

760
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 1: loaf already. It's a cranberry and almond sourdough bread. It's

761
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: like the best raisin bread you've ever had, except it's

762
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: not raisin. It's great. You're gonna love this. You know,

763
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: it's hit or miss if you mess around in the

764
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 1: gluten free bread world. This is a hit. Seriously. I

765
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: was impressed, so look for a limited time. Wildgrain is

766
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: offering our listeners thirty dollars off your first box plus

767
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: free croissants in every box when you go to wildgrain

768
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 1: dot com slash podcast. To start your subscription, follow these instructions.

769
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: Free croissants in every box, thirty dollars off your first

770
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 1: box when you go to wildgrain dot com slash toodcast

771
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 1: that's wildgrain dot com slash podcast, or simply use the

772
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: promo code toodcast at check out. Always use the code

773
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 1: get the discount. I'm telling you it's excellent, excellent bread.

774
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: We are peeking out here and offering all sorts of

775
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: book ideas, and I want to I want to keep

776
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: this going because it sounds like you I keep interrupting

777
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: you to a certain.

778
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 2: Now, I just I want to know your books to

779
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: the end of the nineteenth century.

780
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: I want to know I see, Well, I'll tell you

781
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: a book that so what happened, and I'm going to

782
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: give you a shortened version. So for a brief period

783
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 1: of time, I sold a mini series on Garfield and

784
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: was in myself and a writing partner, Adam Pearlman. We

785
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 1: wrote a pilot. So let's just say that I had

786
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: we had thought through all the different ways that we

787
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,919
Speaker 1: were going to do this. So I obviously watched Death

788
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: by Lightning in a very different way than most people

789
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: would have watched it, which is, oh, they chose to

790
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: do that. Well, we were going to do this. One

791
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: of the things we were going to do and was

792
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: make Washington, d C. The city one of the main characters,

793
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: because you know, it was actually the small period of

794
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: time where DC got Home rule for a period of time,

795
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: then it had Home rule taken away. Black political power

796
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: was concentrated in the district in a very unique way,

797
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: and there was a lot of fascinating stories. And I

798
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: read this incredible book and it's it's literally a biography

799
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 1: of Washington the City. And I am sorry, I don't

800
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 1: have the title in front of me, but i am.

801
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: I'm so it it is. I learned more about Jefferson

802
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: and Washington and what they were trying to do and

803
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: designing the capital city. You know, you realize now the

804
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: unfinished canal in Georgetown, you know what that was about.

805
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: Washington was determined to get to thought that the Potomac

806
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 1: was going to get that they could connect to the Mississippi,

807
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: and they were literally what Washington's vision was to make Washington,

808
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: d C the most important. He wanted to make it

809
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: the biggest port on the East coast, and in order

810
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 1: to do that you had to connect. Obviously, he wanted

811
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 1: to connect all the Well, it didn't take them long

812
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: to realize, oh, that ain't going to work, right. But

813
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: it's just funny. You know, they didn't have their GPS then, right,

814
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 1: they didn't really have any aerial shots. But it's what

815
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: I love about this is it it really is sort

816
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: of understanding how the city was formed and then these

817
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: interesting periods that the period of laying it out and

818
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: all of that, and washing Jefferson actually took it over

819
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: after a while. He's like, no, very trumpy in way.

820
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: I've got an idea of how this city should be

821
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: laid out. Let me take care of this. There was

822
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: even a little bit of a power struggle between Washington

823
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 1: and Jefferson over over you know, building the city and

824
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 1: laying it out. And then of course you had Grant

825
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: and this is where he allowed himself to get corrupted

826
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 1: by people who wanted control of the city, developers who

827
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 1: wanted to control the city. It is, but this book,

828
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: there's an incredible period about d C when it briefly

829
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,720
Speaker 1: got home rule after the Civil War. Then Grant takes

830
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: it away, but it leaves this sort of vacuum of

831
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: black political power that still got a little bit of

832
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: juice in it. And it's just a fascinating period in

833
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: the history of Washington, the city, and it really sort

834
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 1: of helps you understand the we we lived in such

835
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 1: a divisive political time, right if you think about it,

836
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: starting with after Grant, we don't re elect the president okay,

837
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: to two consecutive terms until McKinley. We go through this

838
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: suit him well and we shoot McKinley. That's a whole

839
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: nother you know. And by the way, do you.

840
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 2: Know that Carl Rove has the great book on that.

841
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: He's got the great McKinley book, which which what I

842
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: haven't discovered, is a good book on Grover Cleveland. And

843
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: you would think with the Trump election that somebody would

844
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: have would have and you know what, I that's one

845
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: of those that that I, you know, I wish I

846
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: had been smarter, you know, if I wanted to get

847
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,439
Speaker 1: into the history game, that would have been a book

848
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 1: to jump in and do. Do Grover Cleveland the last

849
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: non consecutive president, you know, by.

850
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,959
Speaker 2: The way on Washington when I you know, I've lived

851
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 2: on and off in DC for a lot of my twenties,

852
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 2: but when I sort of finally moved here permanently. Jonathan Carl,

853
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 2: who I know, you know well from ABC News, gave

854
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 2: me the book Revily in Washington eighteen sixty to eighteen

855
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 2: sixty five. So it's pre dating what you're talking about,

856
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 2: but also a fascinating time for Washington as the city.

857
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:18,720
Speaker 2: It's sort of like Sex in the City, but instead

858
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:19,439
Speaker 2: of New York City.

859
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: It's well, here's an uncomfortable factoid. The deal where they

860
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 1: cut the where you know, the eighteen seventy six the

861
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 1: deal that basically ended reconstruction was cut in a black

862
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:30,399
Speaker 1: owned hotel in DC.

863
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 2: That's ironic, depressing Atlanta I thinks about it.

864
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like, how what a I mean? And

865
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: this is to me, what makes Garfield such a great

866
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: character is that Garfield. Look, we do this with anybody

867
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: who gets gunned down too early in life. What if? Right,

868
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: what if they had lived? If Kennedy had lived? If

869
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 1: you know, my god, Stephen King wrote an entire book

870
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 1: on a portal of what if Kennedy had lived? And

871
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: of course the conclusion Stephen King came to is if

872
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: Kennedy had finished his terms, it would have given us

873
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,919
Speaker 1: George Wallace's president. Just sort of think that's the way

874
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: that book ends. By the way, did you know that?

875
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 2: I have thoughts about what would have happened if Mitt

876
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 2: Romney had won twenty twelve. You certainly don't get Donald Trump.

877
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: If Garfield lives. I think Garfield, you know, garb That's

878
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: my point, meaning we put all this, you know, we

879
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 1: had all these hopes, and we think certain things might

880
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: have happened if so and so lived, and Death by

881
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:29,439
Speaker 1: Lightning certainly paints a very virtue a virtue virtuous version

882
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: of Garfield. But there's something to it. I mean, if

883
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: Garfield has two consecutive terms, I think he does. The

884
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 1: goal was to bring back reconstruction, and it's possible if

885
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 1: Garfield lives between Civil Service reform and sort of bringing

886
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 1: back reconstruction, we might have gotten the Civil Rights Act

887
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: nearly one hundred years sooner.

888
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm total that because on the one hand, Garfield

889
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 2: comes in as a week president and the sense that

890
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,760
Speaker 2: he is the way he's picked, and Death by Lightning

891
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 2: does a great job of showing how he's the dark horse, right,

892
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 2: as the book is entitled the other.

893
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 1: Book, the other book being entitled right.

894
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, but in some ways that makes him quite weak.

895
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 2: He doesn't come in with the normal set of allies

896
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 2: and party machines that everyone else had come in with.

897
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 2: So his death breathes up his vice president. Yeah, because

898
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 2: then buck some of that. If Garfield had stayed in,

899
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 2: would he have needed friends, would he have had to

900
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 2: compromise more than he would have wanted to? Would he

901
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 2: have sort of been a very bland president because he

902
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,240
Speaker 2: couldn't have actually had the political juice to get much done?

903
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 2: Is my alternative version of that.

904
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 1: It could be And what you just painted might have

905
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 1: been is the Obama presidency, right, and a presidency that

906
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: was filled with you know what, I think looking back

907
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 1: on it, you know what did the Obama presidency accomplish?

908
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: Obamacare was a big deal, no doubt about it. Other

909
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: than that it accomplished more of a breaking a barrier

910
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: matter it certainly it certainly accomplished that. And I think

911
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 1: breaking that glass ceiling or I don't know if we

912
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 1: want to call that a glass ceiling or a ceiling, whichever,

913
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 1: how you refer to that. But the presidency itself. And

914
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 1: you know, when I realized this is going to become

915
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: a talking point. I was at the Texas Tribune Festival.

916
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 1: I was there to interview Wes Moore. I went to

917
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: see the Tim Walls interview, and Tim Walls talked about

918
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: we wasted the Obama presidency, meaning they had these huge

919
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 1: majorities for two years and they didn't do enough with it.

920
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: And he said the next time, you know it was

921
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 1: it was an interesting answer. The question was about you know,

922
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: what have you learned from Trump some form of that,

923
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 1: like what and both and Tim Walls gave one answer,

924
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: and Wes Moore gave a similar answer to me, which is,

925
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: you know, Trump's always doing something. There's always action with Trump.

926
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: And he says, you know, we Democrats spend too much

927
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: time trying to get a commission with a committee and

928
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 1: then and then get an interest group buy in and

929
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: do this, and do this and do this, and then

930
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: he talked and then Walls turned it into you know,

931
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: this is why we only and then we were too cautious,

932
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 1: we only try one big thing, and oh, we're not

933
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: going to do cap and trade. Now now that we

934
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 1: made everybody walk the plank on Obamacare, And it's interesting

935
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: that that's the lesson that I think many of the

936
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: next generation of Democrats are taking away from the combination

937
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: of the Trump era in comparison to the Obama era.

938
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 2: That's funny because to me, I was at the Republican

939
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 2: National Committee during you know, I was on Romney's twenty

940
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 2: I was on Romney's oweight and twenty twelve campaign, and

941
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 2: then went to the Republican National Committee after the twenty

942
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 2: twelve cycle. And from that vantage point, I would say

943
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 2: the huge mistake they made was dismantling the Democratic Party.

944
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 2: They basically turned the Democratic National Committee into Obamacare or sorry, Obamacare,

945
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 2: Obama for America.

946
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: Right, they called it ofa they Organizing for America or

947
00:51:58,280 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: something like that.

948
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, lost one thousand state beats over the course of

949
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 2: his presidency. Those that's their field. And so when you

950
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 2: look at you know, people sort of making fun of

951
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 2: the octagenarian bench in Congress right now on the Democratic side,

952
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 2: it is super lopsided. The Democrats are the ones with

953
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 2: all the old people not leaving. But I would say

954
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 2: part of that is because they gutted their bench during

955
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 2: the Obama years and they were left with nobody to run.

956
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: Well there and then and then of course, I mean

957
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 1: just to fast forward that through. I mean the most,

958
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: the single biggest mistake I think Obama made for the

959
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 1: future of the Democratic Party was endorsing Hillary Clinton. He

960
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 1: did not understand that the party he should have He

961
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: should have opened up that twenty sixteen primary campaign. And

962
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: when he closed the door to any right, when he

963
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: shut that door, I understand why he did it. He

964
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: made you know, Bill Clinton was really important to his

965
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: campaign reelect in twenty twelve, and Hillary Clinton was a

966
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: good soldier and a good partner and all of those things. Like,

967
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: I think all of that was genuine. I think I

968
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: don't dismiss the personal reasons, but when the minute he

969
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 1: does that, this is why Amy Klobishaw doesn't run. There's

970
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: that whole group of Democrats that ended up running in

971
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 1: twenty that run instead in twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen.

972
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: And it's more I mean, like I said, Obama didn't

973
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 1: remember that. The reason he became the nominee O eight

974
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 1: is that Democrats didn't want Hillary Clinton. And how badly

975
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: did Democrats not want Hillary Clinton twenty sixteen they almost

976
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,879
Speaker 1: nominated Bernie Effing Sanders. That's how badly they did. I've

977
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 1: always thought the rise of Sanders is directly a result

978
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 1: of Obama closing the primary door to anybody legitimate in

979
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,879
Speaker 1: going against Hillary. It became just like a steam valve. Well,

980
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: it was going to go somewhere and won Martin O'Malley,

981
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:53,919
Speaker 1: and it wasn't going to be Jim Webb. The only

982
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:58,240
Speaker 1: other person sitting there, you know, was was Bernie Sanders.

983
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 1: And so they half the party go there. But I

984
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: put that blame on Obama.

985
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 2: They try not to repeat the mistake the Obamas. I mean,

986
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 2: then in the last summer in twenty four, I know,

987
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 2: they hold off on Harris because they know that she

988
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 2: has no chance of winning. They want the open primary

989
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 2: at the DNC convention, but it's gone, and so they

990
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,359
Speaker 2: get on the bandwagon. But you could tell that it

991
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 2: was really because he.

992
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 1: Screwed up the first time. Yeah, it's the same thing,

993
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: and then this time that you know, it's always one

994
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 1: of these things. It was the nobody wanted to go

995
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: through the pain of denying the nomination to Harris only

996
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 1: to potentially have Harris win it anyway, because the delegates

997
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,320
Speaker 1: weren't going to feel comfortable denying the sitting vice president

998
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: the nomination. So you know, even if you wanted to

999
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 1: open up the process, even if you thought that was

1000
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: there was no guarantee where the delegates were going to go.

1001
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 1: I mean, this is what death by Lightning teaches us.

1002
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 1: Right by the way, I always say this about the

1003
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 1: Garfield story. If you've ever wondered where the mythology of

1004
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: the dark horse candidate came from, it is Garfield is

1005
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 1: singing still the only person to come from nowhere to

1006
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: get the presidency, and he did it. And we have

1007
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 1: this mythology that somebody can make a speech at a

1008
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 1: convention and become the nominee for president. It only happened once,

1009
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: but it happened once. That's what I love the story

1010
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 1: so much.

1011
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,399
Speaker 2: And Barack Obama because it.

1012
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: Didn't happen that year. No, no, it didn't happen that year.

1013
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 2: Because it is because of a speech he gave it

1014
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 2: a convention. You know. On the Republican side, this is

1015
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 2: what I mean about Romney losing in twenty twelve. It's

1016
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 2: not just that obviously then Republicans had to nominate someone

1017
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 2: else in twenty sixteen. It's that they learned that the

1018
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 2: nice guy wasn't going to win, and so they wanted

1019
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 2: someone who was going to be the opposite of Romney.

1020
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 2: And if Romney had won in twenty twelve, it would

1021
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 2: have been like, Ah, the sort of George W. Bush

1022
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 2: character matters, That's what the Republican Party stands for, honor,

1023
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 2: and and that that would have been more of the ethos,

1024
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 2: and potentially America could have skipped that post two thousand

1025
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:02,839
Speaker 2: and eight financial crisis populist movement that then happened worldwide.

1026
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: I had a relative asked me, did we make a

1027
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 1: mistake not electing Romney in twelve because it gave us Trump. Now,

1028
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: I'll give you an alternative theory that I actually did,

1029
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,720
Speaker 1: as I do this at the end of every year,

1030
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: and my podcasts have been doing this since going back

1031
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: to the NBC. I pick out a few, you know,

1032
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 1: a butterfly effect, like what if like you know, what

1033
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 1: if Bill Clinton had resigned in ninety eight and Al

1034
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: Gore becomes president. I think it really politicizes nine to

1035
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 1: eleven in a way that nobody ever believes because it

1036
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: Gore probably wins in two thousand for sure, he sort

1037
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 1: of reelected Bush probably doesn't even run against him, because

1038
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,399
Speaker 1: he would have been very cautious and going, oh, you're

1039
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 1: not going to defeat a sitting VP. You know, there

1040
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: would have been it would have been a different Democratic Party.

1041
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 1: There's all sorts of but you know, one decision creates

1042
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: these butterfly effects. I'll give you one that I did

1043
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 1: last year about this issue of going from Romney to Trump.

1044
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:58,360
Speaker 1: If there's no bridge Gate, Chris Christie's the front runner

1045
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 1: in teen fourteen and fifteen, and there is no room

1046
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: for Trump because Christy is enough Trump, right, He's the

1047
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: no more mister nice guy. And it's a more gradual

1048
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,919
Speaker 1: version from Romney to you know, it's Trump's a more

1049
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: abrupt like jump. Right. Christy was sort of the you know,

1050
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: Jersey version, but sort of with with some empathy in him, right.

1051
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: And I actually buy that that not if bringey Gate

1052
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 1: doesn't happen, or if he just says, you're goddamn right.

1053
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: I ordered the code read and you know, I don't

1054
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 1: care what you want to do. It would have you know,

1055
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: I think it literally is a two day story. My

1056
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: friend Bill Baroni doesn't have to go to prison, but

1057
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: that's a whole nother uh. You know, you know, Christy

1058
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 1: messed that up for a variety in a variety of ways.

1059
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: But if it doesn't happen, or if he handles it differently,

1060
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: is there no Trump and Christy is the then the

1061
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: more rational move from away from mister Knight's guy.

1062
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 2: Interesting. I've always seen Christy as the heir to John

1063
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 2: McCain in a lot of ways. I got into politics

1064
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 2: because of the piece that was written in Rolling Stone

1065
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 2: by David Foster Wallace about the two thousand primary for

1066
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 2: John McCain bullshit one and bullshit two, the buses that

1067
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 2: he was driving on. And you know, I'm on Sundays

1068
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 2: with Chris Christy on ABC pretty frequently. Yeah, he is

1069
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 2: the most talented guy on TV. It like, I'm the

1070
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 2: person who sits there for the next twenty four hours

1071
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 2: thinking of all the things I should have said and

1072
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 2: how I wasn't right, you know, Like, and I just

1073
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 2: kicked myself pairing myself to Chris Christie right next to me.

1074
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 2: It's so annoying.

1075
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 1: No, I mean he's the best.

1076
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 2: I adore him.

1077
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 1: He again, he just he he mismanaged that period and

1078
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: I think he knows it, but he never wants to

1079
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: admit it. You know. I mean, because we were human beings.

1080
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 1: I get it. You know, look, I have a problem

1081
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: with your relationship with him is not great because of it,

1082
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 1: and it just because it's very personal. But I you know,

1083
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: he's still an incredible political Athlete's I love to use

1084
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 1: that phrase political athlete, and he's an incredible political athlete,

1085
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 1: and he you know, it was so against brand right.

1086
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 1: The problem with Bridgegate for him was either he didn't

1087
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 1: know either he ordered it or he didn't order it right.

1088
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 1: And one thing we all knew about Chris Christy was

1089
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 1: he was a micromanager. This wasn't an absent tee leader.

1090
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 1: So it wasn't believable that he didn't know. And when

1091
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 1: he tried to feign that he didn't know, you were

1092
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 1: just like, well, now you're being a typical politician. I

1093
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 1: thought you were a straight shooter like it undermined his

1094
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:41,959
Speaker 1: entire brand in a way that I don't think even

1095
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: he appreciated.

1096
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 2: The problem with your theory is that you're not really

1097
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 2: taking into account the Tea Party movement piece of the

1098
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 2: Republican Party. And the reason that Ted Cruz comes in

1099
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 2: as the first runner up to Trump in twenty sixteen

1100
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 2: is because of that specific type of conservatism that Ted

1101
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 2: Cruz represented and Chris Christy was not that because he's

1102
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 2: been a governor and had a record for eight years.

1103
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: So don't you think it's Christie And but don't you

1104
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 1: think there's no room for Trump? And don't you think

1105
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: Christie's the alpha at that point? Like Trump? Interesting because

1106
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: it is just a different version. You know, by the time,

1107
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: Christy was a neutered version of himself. I'm sorry, he

1108
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: just was by the time. We didn't get to see

1109
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 1: the full Chris Christy until a brief period in that

1110
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 1: you know, when he sort of took Rubio out in

1111
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: the New Hampshire primary. But we didn't see the version

1112
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 1: of Christie. You know, imagine that Christy during the earlier

1113
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 1: part of the primary season. It may have been Christy

1114
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 1: and Cruz for the final right, there probably is no room.

1115
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: Cask probably doesn't catch fire. The Kask people are with Christy.

1116
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: Plus Christy also has sort of the Bush wing in

1117
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 1: his own way. He's a formidable I think co front

1118
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 1: runner and I agree with you on Cruise, and that'd

1119
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 1: have been fascinating.

1120
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 2: Well, I was running Carly theory as campaign during that

1121
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 2: cycle and I will tell you this is like the

1122
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 2: little known thing that you only know if you're sort

1123
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 2: of in the deep weeds. You who took us out?

1124
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 2: Chris Chrissy?

1125
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: How did he do that? I'm vaguely yeah.

1126
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 2: It was the New Hampshire We got pushed out. He

1127
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 2: got us out of the New Hampshire debate.

1128
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 1: He pushed her. That's right. She didn't make it to

1129
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 1: the main stage and he barely got in, right.

1130
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 2: That's right. And so he had made some calls into

1131
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 2: the RNC and had pulled some you know, some carrots

1132
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 2: and some sticks. Yeah, And he and I have talked

1133
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 2: about this, and I think it's pretty funny now. But

1134
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 2: it shows I think what you're talking about, which is

1135
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 2: both he's a good athlete on the field, but he's

1136
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 2: a good athlete off the field too.

1137
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 1: No, I think it is. It is. It is a

1138
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 1: fascinating what if I think, if Bridgegate doesn't happen, or

1139
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 1: if he just handles it in the way that I

1140
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: think we Chris Christy today would probably have handled it.

1141
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 2: So, Chuck Todd, this is my question to you. Does

1142
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 2: the next Democratic president who needs to restore the Department

1143
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 2: of Justice pick Chris Christy as attorney general to have

1144
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 2: that cross partisan appeal.

1145
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 1: You know, so you this gets that too. I actually

1146
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 1: think we need to have an entirely different way that

1147
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 1: we appoint the Justice Department, and I think we need

1148
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:19,760
Speaker 1: to figure out how to sort of force a we

1149
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 1: need to detach justice from the executive branch and.

1150
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 2: Some form I disagree entirely. I think we're going to

1151
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 2: have to do a whole other podcast on this.

1152
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 1: I think we should because I think, you know, I

1153
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 1: think I at least would want to set up kind

1154
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 1: of like the Federal Reserve, where no one president can

1155
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 1: sort of do wholesale changes to sort of the rule

1156
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 1: of law just based on, you know, wiping out the

1157
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 1: entire political leadership. Like I'd like to see sort of staggering.

1158
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:48,480
Speaker 1: I'd like to see five year terms for the DAGs,

1159
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 1: for various DAGs, and that way you guarantee that no

1160
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 1: one president controls. I think we've just proven that you

1161
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: can't the politicizing of the Justice Department. I mean, at

1162
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 1: the end of the it doesn't matter whether the left doesn't,

1163
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 1: you know, right now, the left doesn't believe anything coming

1164
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: out of Justice. Before it was the right didn't believe

1165
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: any but here's the problem. Eventually, if both the left

1166
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 1: and the right agree that when that justice is politicized,

1167
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 1: and eventually none of us are going to believe anything

1168
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 1: that comes out of it, I think we have to do.

1169
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 1: That's an interesting way of trying to restore. By the way,

1170
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:24,960
Speaker 1: that's what Biden was trying with Merrick Garland. In his defense,

1171
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 1: it turned out Garland just didn't know how to didn't

1172
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 1: understand the political side of the job, and there was

1173
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 1: a political side of the job. But I would argue,

1174
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 1: and I know we're getting late. It sounds like you've

1175
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 1: got to get going here. And I know if I

1176
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 1: promised you under an hour and I have thirty five seconds.

1177
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 1: So that's my quick argument there. But pushback quickly.

1178
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 2: We want the Justice Department to focus on the priorities

1179
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 2: of the president, so that after the two thousand and

1180
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 2: eight financial crisis, Barack Obama moves federal prosecutors off gun

1181
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 2: cases and even terrorism cases to put them on financial crimes,

1182
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 2: and then the job starts spiking and you have Trump,

1183
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 2: move aussays, and again I'm at the Department of Justice

1184
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 2: at this point, move aussays back onto gun primes. That

1185
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 2: is the responsiveness that voters expect from the president. And

1186
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 2: I hear you that we've broken it. But we've broken

1187
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:21,080
Speaker 2: it by electing bad presidents, not by things that we

1188
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 2: need to do to the Department of Justice.

1189
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: Well, I guess I could argue that, look, we didn't know. Look,

1190
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 1: the Department of Justice was something we didn't fully appreciate

1191
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 1: that we needed at the beginning. In fairness, right, the

1192
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 1: Founders didn't really have a And I think that's one

1193
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 1: of those today it's like i'd loved it. Now, Hey, hey, founders,

1194
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 1: here's a challenge. You guys didn't think of here? What

1195
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 1: do you think of this? How would you have handled this? Right? Or?

1196
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 1: Hey founders? Now, by the way, the Founders never told

1197
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 1: us how many members of the Supreme Court there should be.

1198
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 1: Why do you think they didn't.

1199
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 2: That's a good question. You know, the original court under

1200
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 2: John Jay didn't really do much at all.

1201
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 1: John right, was it five members? Then the originally there were.

1202
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 2: Five and there were six and they tied quite a bit,

1203
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 2: and then we haven't really gone back to the even

1204
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 2: numbers since then, and then we've vacillated. We went, you know,

1205
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:12,760
Speaker 2: down to seven, we've gone up to ten, we've been

1206
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:15,280
Speaker 2: at nine for over one hundred years, well over one

1207
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 2: hundred years at this point. Do you have a reason

1208
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 2: why you think they didn't set the number.

1209
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, that's you know, it's it's i've here,

1210
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 1: I've here's I'll tell you why. I've thought about this

1211
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: more often because I'm I think that we should have

1212
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 1: I read Federal seventy eight and the Hamilton on the

1213
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 1: judiciary and how we select judges, and I read it

1214
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 1: as we need the least partisan people you can find,

1215
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 1: and to me, the only way to do that is

1216
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 1: to make the number three quarters in the Senate. Now,

1217
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 1: I had somebody say to me, well, if that is

1218
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: what they intended, they would have written it in the

1219
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 1: You know, they were very specific when they wanted super

1220
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 1: majorities and when they didn't want super majorities. And I thought, okay,

1221
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 1: I accept that premise. You're right because there are specific

1222
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 1: places where they said, yeah, you need super majors for X,

1223
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 1: you know, not necessarily for why, right, And so they

1224
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 1: didn't do it for that. So that's interesting to me,

1225
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 1: and that's fair. So I don't, you know, it's not

1226
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 1: as if those ideas weren't on the table. They just

1227
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 1: clearly chose for maybe for compromise reasons whatever, not to

1228
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 1: do it. Like I tell you one not I don't

1229
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 1: get at all. I have no idea why there's a

1230
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 1: pardon power other than somebody wanted to pardon. That's why.

1231
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:28,520
Speaker 1: That is the best explanation I've gotten from a Founding

1232
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 1: Father historian.

1233
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 2: No, you know what, I think the pardon power is

1234
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 2: actually incredibly important. I would ratify an amendment to also

1235
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 2: put that through the advice and consent process in the Senate.

1236
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: I think that was doing it heavily. Think there needs

1237
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 1: to be a committee of some sort, But yes, like

1238
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 1: a partner that you think about part of the.

1239
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:50,680
Speaker 2: Three most famous pardons, it's Washington's parton of the Whiskey Rebellion,

1240
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 2: It's going to be Johnson's pardon slash amnesty of the Confederates,

1241
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 2: and then Ford's pardon of Nixon. All three of those

1242
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:02,960
Speaker 2: were not the sort of mercy pardons of the kings

1243
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:12,240
Speaker 2: of England. They were trying to ameliorate political problems that

1244
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:16,800
Speaker 2: were potentially existential to the country and to move past those,

1245
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 2: and those were pretty important actually, So I think, you know,

1246
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:21,680
Speaker 2: there's those who want to get rid of the pardon power.

1247
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 2: I think that's a huge mistake. But if we had

1248
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 2: the advice and consent of the Senate, it would get

1249
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 2: rid of the family pardon bullshit that we're seeing now.

1250
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 1: Well, look, I boit. I felt this the last time

1251
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 1: you and I podcast that We're like, well, we're gonna

1252
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 1: have to do this again. We're going to have to

1253
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 1: do this again because I think the Ford pardon in

1254
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 1: hindsight was a huge mistake.

1255
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 2: Oh can't I.

1256
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 1: Think and so And it turns out and by the way,

1257
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 1: I was you know, I always say I was raised

1258
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 1: to believe it, and I was raised to understand it

1259
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 1: that way. And then we went through Trump and you realized,

1260
01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 1: oh no, you know this set off, This ended up

1261
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 1: symbolically creating a protected political class that we never should

1262
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 1: have created. It. It just, yeah, I understand the decision

1263
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 1: in the moment.

1264
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:13,360
Speaker 2: What's that I open to this argument.

1265
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand the decision in the moment, And I

1266
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 1: would argue that Ford did it for his own personal

1267
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:21,360
Speaker 1: political reasons. This was not that I know the idea.

1268
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:23,679
Speaker 1: It is painted as if it was for the country.

1269
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 1: But the fact of the matter is, if he didn't

1270
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:28,160
Speaker 1: pardon for it, he is he does not get the

1271
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:30,760
Speaker 1: Republican nomination in seventy six, more of.

1272
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 2: His presidency is totally focused on that right.

1273
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:36,519
Speaker 1: And this is one month after he makes this decision,

1274
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 1: one month after he takes office. This is before the

1275
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 1: seventy four midterms, Okay, which probably made the seventy four

1276
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:45,559
Speaker 1: midterms even worse for the Republicans for what it's.

1277
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 2: Worth, for sure.

1278
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:49,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, but anyway, we've got it. It just feels like

1279
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:50,639
Speaker 1: we just have to put a pin in our conversation.

1280
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 1: What's thet tell people, how they read more of you,

1281
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 1: how they see more of you, all of those things

1282
01:08:57,400 --> 01:09:00,720
Speaker 1: so that people know. I'm a huge advocate the Dispatch.

1283
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:03,640
Speaker 1: It's one of my places I recommend people to go

1284
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:07,160
Speaker 1: to all the time. I mean, Scott Linscombe has educated

1285
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 1: me more about trade than any individual there is, So

1286
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:14,720
Speaker 1: I just highly recommend so many of your newsletters, but

1287
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 1: you go.

1288
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:18,959
Speaker 2: I have a legal podcast with David French called Advisory

1289
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,720
Speaker 2: Opinions where we break down everything the Supreme Court and

1290
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 2: the circuit public courts are doing. We'll dabble in some

1291
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 2: state Supreme courts from now and then, and then I

1292
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:30,120
Speaker 2: have a book coming out called Last Branch Standing that'll

1293
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:33,160
Speaker 2: be at a Supreme Court explainer and with a lot of

1294
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of good color for someone like you.

1295
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 1: Chuck Well, I can't wait. When's the book come out

1296
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 1: because I'm want to schedule that, but you can order

1297
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:43,640
Speaker 1: it now. We will, we will schedule that podcast if

1298
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 1: you will, if you humor me again. And we've got

1299
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 1: so we've got to fix the Justice Department, uh huh

1300
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:52,760
Speaker 1: and Ford pardon right, Like, those are the two big

1301
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:54,680
Speaker 1: things we need to you know, how are we going

1302
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:59,720
Speaker 1: to our ideas for restoring the public's belief in the

1303
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 1: world of law? Is it? Can it be done by

1304
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 1: a president? Or does it? There is this system have

1305
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:09,879
Speaker 1: to change? And then here's a third item for the agenda.

1306
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:12,880
Speaker 1: How do we trigger it? How should we get people

1307
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:15,840
Speaker 1: to embrace a constitutional convention because I kind of think we.

1308
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 2: Need one, at least an amendment to make amending easier.

1309
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:22,519
Speaker 1: Oh you would like to do that. I don't mind

1310
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 1: that amendments are hard. I just think that we just

1311
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:29,599
Speaker 1: need to make the process not seem like it's it's

1312
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:33,479
Speaker 1: that it's too much of a slog. Like may be

1313
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 1: speeding up the process in some form, But I think

1314
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:37,240
Speaker 1: the idea.

1315
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:40,480
Speaker 2: Hard, But as Justice Scalia said, it shouldn't be this hard.

1316
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: No interesting. So what does that mean? Give me a

1317
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:46,840
Speaker 1: quick teaser on that. What would you give right get

1318
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 1: rid of?

1319
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 2: Basically the role of Congress in it? The states still

1320
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 2: need to ratify three quarters of the states, but lower

1321
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:58,639
Speaker 2: either bypassing Congress or lower the number in Congress.

1322
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:03,640
Speaker 1: Would you ever endorse national referenda? No, neither would I

1323
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:05,760
Speaker 1: actually believe state referenda are unconstitutional.

1324
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 2: I think they're a disaster.

1325
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 1: Oh, I totally agree that for the most part they've done.

1326
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 1: You know, that sets things back, doesn't't pave the way forward.

1327
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:18,559
Speaker 1: It just helps partisans who have who are in the minority.

1328
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 1: That's all the referendum process seems seems to do. But

1329
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 1: we are not a direct democracy or a republic, and

1330
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 1: I assume that that should apply to the States as well.

1331
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 1: That's why I don't I don't buy that. I am

1332
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:34,360
Speaker 1: surprised that referenda haven't been challenged under that, under the

1333
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:38,800
Speaker 1: idea that that it's not what the Framers intended. All right,

1334
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 1: all right, my friend, we got a big agenda. It's

1335
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:43,880
Speaker 1: going to take us two hours, so we'll see.

1336
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 2: I love it.

1337
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:48,679
Speaker 1: Thank you, it's great to doctor. There's a reason results

1338
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 1: matter more than promises, just like there's a reason. Morgan

1339
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 1: and Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. For the

1340
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 1: last thirty five years, they've recovered twenty five billion dollars

1341
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 1: for more than half a million clients. It includes cases

1342
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 1: where insurance companies offered next to nothing, just hoping to

1343
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:07,560
Speaker 1: get away with paying as little as possible. Morgan and

1344
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 1: Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact, in Pennsylvania,

1345
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 1: one client was awarded twenty six million dollars, which was

1346
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:17,840
Speaker 1: a staggering forty times the amount that the insurance company

1347
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,040
Speaker 1: originally offered. That original offer six hundred and fifty thousand

1348
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:23,880
Speaker 1: dollars twenty six million, six hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

1349
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 1: So with more than one thousand lawyers across the country,

1350
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:28,839
Speaker 1: they know how to deliver for everyday people. If you're injured,

1351
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 1: you need a lawyer. You need somebody to get your back.

1352
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:34,680
Speaker 1: Check out for the People dot Com, Slash podcast, or

1353
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 1: dial pound law, Pound five two nine law on your

1354
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:42,920
Speaker 1: cell phone. And remember all law firms are not the same,

1355
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 1: So check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free

1356
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 1: unless they win