Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg sound on.
Speaker 1: The intruder was shouting Where's Nancy? Sus that pull the
Speaker 1: hammer away from its Pelosi and violently assaulted Bloomberg sound
Speaker 1: on politics, policy and perspective from DC's top name inspiration
Speaker 1: Twitter or the Digital town Square would be that it
Speaker 1: is as inclusive in the broad assess the word as possible.
Speaker 1: This stuff is great, This Twitter. It's sort of like
Speaker 1: owning the New York Times without the losses? Can you
Speaker 1: believe that? Though it's like a Bloomberg sound on with
Speaker 1: Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio, the Speaker of the House
Speaker 1: was the intended target. Welcome to the fastest hour in politics,
Speaker 1: as we end the week with new concerns about political violence.
Speaker 1: Hours to Nancy, Pelosi's husband was attacked inside their San
Speaker 1: Francisco home, the intruder chanting Where's Nancy amid new calls
Speaker 1: for lawmakers security ahead of the elections. We're joined tonight
Speaker 1: by Leon Panetta, former Director of the CIA, former Secretary
Speaker 1: of Defense, once a lawmaker from California himself and a
Speaker 1: longtime friend of Pelosi. Will be joined as well by
Speaker 1: Tim Romer, former Ambassador former congressman and architect of the
Speaker 1: nine eleven commissioned. Later, we widen our focus to political
Speaker 1: speech and the digital town square. Now that Elon Musk
Speaker 1: owns Twitter. We'll talk with Katherine Kenneally of the Institute
Speaker 1: for Strategic Dialogue, and our signature panel helps us make
Speaker 1: sense of it all. Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and
Speaker 1: Jeannie Chanzano here for the hour. When we start with
Speaker 1: what little we know about the attack on Paul Pelosi,
Speaker 1: who is being treated for blunt force trauma following what
Speaker 1: appears to be an attempt at home invasion. San Francisco
Speaker 1: police say no motive has been confirmed, but we've been
Speaker 1: doing a lot of reporting today, and a source close
Speaker 1: to the investigation tells Bloomberg that the man identified as
Speaker 1: David de Peppe was yelling where's Nancy when he entered
Speaker 1: the home. Indeed, Nancy Pelosi was the intended target. Police
Speaker 1: Chief William Scott on what officers saw when they arrived
Speaker 1: at the scene. Here he is. When the officers arrived
Speaker 1: on scene, they encountered an adult mail and Mr Pelosi's husband. Oh.
Speaker 1: Our officers observed Miss Pelosi and subspect both PODi the hammer.
Speaker 1: The suspect pulled the hammer away from its Pelosi and
Speaker 1: violently assaulted him with it. Chief says. The officers tackled
Speaker 1: the man they got ahold of the hammer. Nancy Pelosi
Speaker 1: was in Washington when all of this happened, leading us
Speaker 1: all to wonder how this would have gone if she
Speaker 1: and her security detail had been in her home at
Speaker 1: the time. And of course we all know that political
Speaker 1: violence is on the rise and it's touched members of
Speaker 1: both parties. Just ask Steve Scalise, asked Lee Zelden, who
Speaker 1: was attacked at the podium during this cycle. And the
Speaker 1: idea of this man yelling where's Nancy recalls the sounds
Speaker 1: of rioters on January six, remember this as they marched
Speaker 1: up the stairs at the Capital to the Speaker's office.
Speaker 1: It's chilling to hear it now. That was from tape
Speaker 1: provided by the January six Select Committee. We're joined now
Speaker 1: by someone who has not only seen the underbelly of
Speaker 1: political violence as director of the CIA, and a lawmaker
Speaker 1: himself who worked closely with Nancy Pelosi for many years.
Speaker 1: Leon Panetta, also former Secretary of Defense, wants a congressman
Speaker 1: from California to be more specific, Mr Secretary, welcome back
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg. I do appreciate your being here today. People
Speaker 1: have great concerns in the Capitol and around the country.
Speaker 1: How worried should Americans be about radicalized political violence here
Speaker 1: in the US? Well, this is another chilling threat. Uh,
Speaker 1: that domestic terrorism is very real in our society, particularly
Speaker 1: the kind of violent terrorism that's aimed at political leaders. Uh.
Speaker 1: And what you saw happen today is a chilling echo
Speaker 1: from what happened on January six when a mob I
Speaker 1: was going through the capital basically yelling uh and and
Speaker 1: trying to go after Nancy Pelosi at that time. Bottom line,
Speaker 1: as words have consequences, and people need to understand that
Speaker 1: Capitol police reported more than threats against lawmakers, more than
Speaker 1: double the number in Mr Secretary. Many more have been
Speaker 1: recorded this year. Senator Susan Collins, Republican from Maine, tells
Speaker 1: The New York Times she wouldn't be surprised if a
Speaker 1: lawmaker were killed. Should the government provide security details for
Speaker 1: all members of Congress? Well, I I think they have
Speaker 1: to give consideration to providing security, particularly to those who
Speaker 1: are in fact threatened. Uh. And UH. The amount of
Speaker 1: threats has gone up to a to a high these
Speaker 1: these last few years, since January six. It is incredibly
Speaker 1: important that we take these threats seriously. Violence is real
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I I've seen in as Director
Speaker 1: of the CIA, al Qaeda used to use uh social
Speaker 1: media sites in order to recruit other terrorists. Uh. And
Speaker 1: they were successful at it, and people tuned into those
Speaker 1: sites became terrorists and engaged in violence. And we're seeing
Speaker 1: that right now. With regards to domestic at terrorism. The
Speaker 1: House Sergeant at Arms, as I'm sure you know, rolled
Speaker 1: out a program earlier this year that would pay ten
Speaker 1: dollars to install or improve equipment and lawmakers residences, along
Speaker 1: with the monthly maintenance fees and so forth. But we're
Speaker 1: hearing stories, Mr. Secretary, from people like Liz Cheney you
Speaker 1: have had to use their own campaign money to pay
Speaker 1: for personal security. I know this would be a very
Speaker 1: expensive endeavor, but how should it be done? Well? Look,
Speaker 1: I think that the security people, particularly with the Capitol Police,
Speaker 1: I ought to be giving serious consideration to what steps
Speaker 1: can be taken that can help protect lawmakers. But this
Speaker 1: is not a Republican or democratic issue. This involves members
Speaker 1: on both sides of the aisle. As you pointed out,
Speaker 1: Steve Scalise was a target of terrorism at the same
Speaker 1: I'm Gabby Gifford's was a target of terrorism. Uh. This
Speaker 1: thing is on the increase. Uh, and therefore, I would
Speaker 1: encourage the Capitol Police to sit down and take steps
Speaker 1: to try to provide protection to those members, particularly those
Speaker 1: members who are receiving uh. You know, the heaviest threats
Speaker 1: that are out there. Nancy Pelosi obviously has her security team,
Speaker 1: but here's her husband at home alone and suddenly this
Speaker 1: guy jumps into the house, going after Nancy Pelosi and
Speaker 1: attacks him. Uh. We have got to provide better protection
Speaker 1: for our members of Congress. Yeah, this is a real
Speaker 1: issue here. And I don't want to cross the line
Speaker 1: with you here, uh, Mr Secretary, but I know that
Speaker 1: you are close to the Pelosi's Has has any of
Speaker 1: the reporting been out of bounds today? And have have
Speaker 1: you spoken with the speaker to know that she is well? Uh?
Speaker 1: Put in a call to the office there to express
Speaker 1: my concerns about what happened. Uh. You know that families
Speaker 1: have been through hell as a result of these kinds
Speaker 1: of threats and attacks. Uh. And I particularly feel Uh,
Speaker 1: feel really great condolences for Paul and what he's going through.
Speaker 1: But I just think it's important, frankly for both Republicans
Speaker 1: and Democrats. I'm glad that the leaders from both parties
Speaker 1: have expressed their concerns about the violence that took place.
Speaker 1: I think the leaders from both parties have to take
Speaker 1: steps to try to deal with this plague of words
Speaker 1: of violence that that's out there on social media, because, frankly,
Speaker 1: it's that it's that hate that's being planted in social
Speaker 1: media that is poisoning the minds of people. I don't
Speaker 1: know how you get to that, Mr Secretary of what
Speaker 1: I do. Thank you for being with us today. Leon Panetta,
Speaker 1: former Secretary of Defense, the former director of the CI,
Speaker 1: A former White House Chief of Staff, and chairman of
Speaker 1: the Pinetta Institute for Public Policy. Of course, longtime California lawmaker,
Speaker 1: who clearly knows the Pelosis and is as concerned about
Speaker 1: this as anyone some of the other reporting that we
Speaker 1: did on this. Look, this has been a tough year
Speaker 1: for Paul Pelosi, right, my goodness, arrested for d u y.
Speaker 1: He's been accused of insider trading in the media. Now
Speaker 1: this there's also a story about crime, of course, which
Speaker 1: has become a huge issue on the campaign trail, one
Speaker 1: that Republicans have tried to capitalize on. And we looked
Speaker 1: at some of the numbers earlier today. You know, we
Speaker 1: are data driven here at Bloomberg. Uh, and the data
Speaker 1: do not support the whole hug a thug narrative surrounding
Speaker 1: Democrats and cities like San Francisco, like Chicago, like Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: a Third Way, the center left group Third Way, and
Speaker 1: you hear some of their representatives with us Kessler Times
Speaker 1: here on this program. They put a big project together
Speaker 1: on this and found that crime is a problem for
Speaker 1: Republican run cities and states just as much or more
Speaker 1: than the Democratic ones. The the incredible fact that I
Speaker 1: found earlier there was the city of Jacksonville, Florida. Of course,
Speaker 1: a Republican mayor had a hundred and twenty eight more
Speaker 1: murders in San Francisco. So is this a crime story, yes?
Speaker 1: Is this a political violent story, Yes, it's that too,
Speaker 1: as we try to make sense of it together here
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg sound On. By the way, I will recall
Speaker 1: as well commentary it's not just crazy people on social media.
Speaker 1: The Minority Leader of the House in auguste Remember, Kevin
Speaker 1: McCarthy was criticized heavily for trying to land a joke
Speaker 1: at a fundraiser. Was a Tennessee Republican fundraiser is talking
Speaker 1: about I'm gonna get this gavel back from Nancy Pelosi.
Speaker 1: Remember what he said. Listen, it will be hard not
Speaker 1: to hit her with it, he said. Fast forward to today,
Speaker 1: Glenn Yuncan on the campaign trail, making I guess light
Speaker 1: of the situation, on the way that he framed this. Listen,
Speaker 1: enough of Abigail Spanburger, enough of Joe Biden, and uh listen,
Speaker 1: I want to stop for a minute, and and uh listen,
Speaker 1: Speaker Polos. He's husband, Uh had a break in last
Speaker 1: night in their house and he was assaulted. There's no
Speaker 1: room for violence anywhere. But we're gonna send her back
Speaker 1: to be with him in California. That's what we're gonna
Speaker 1: go do. That's what we're gonna go do. I'm treating
Speaker 1: it like a laugh line there. Maybe it's the way
Speaker 1: the crowd responded that made it noteworthy, but people need
Speaker 1: to be careful here. I've been looking forward to talking
Speaker 1: with Tim Romer about this former US Congressman from India,
Speaker 1: a member of the nine eleven Commission, former US Ambassador
Speaker 1: to India. Ambassador, it's great to have you here once
Speaker 1: again on Bloomberg Radio. Would you go into politics now?
Speaker 1: If you were a young man looking at this political
Speaker 1: landscape that we're describing today, would would you do it
Speaker 1: over again? Well, Joe, good to be with you again. Uh.
Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't because we need young people to get
Speaker 1: in there. Okay, But if you were a young man, Flood,
Speaker 1: if I was a young person, my dream had always
Speaker 1: been since the fifth grade to run for office, and
Speaker 1: I accomplished that dream at thirty two years old. It
Speaker 1: ran and won and served our country. It makes you
Speaker 1: scratch your head now, Joe. Uh, you know you're worried
Speaker 1: about your family, and you're worried about your kids. You're
Speaker 1: worried about your safety. Uh. I was worried about, you know,
Speaker 1: getting home at eleven o'clock at night after knocking on doors.
Speaker 1: I was worried about, uh, you know, showing up at
Speaker 1: the chamber commerce at seven am in the morning. Not
Speaker 1: about my life. So when you consider everything that we know,
Speaker 1: and I realized it's not a lot and we need
Speaker 1: to stress that will still learn much more about what
Speaker 1: happened in San Francisco at the Pelosi's home. But considering
Speaker 1: the trend that we were just talking about with Leon Panetta,
Speaker 1: Steve Scalise, of course Gabby Gifford's years earlier, Lee Zelden,
Speaker 1: Now what's the answer here? I mean, how do you
Speaker 1: put this genie back in the bottle? Well, this is
Speaker 1: just horrific, This is this is tragic, This is uh
Speaker 1: a real stain on our country at this point. I
Speaker 1: just got back from a trip from India, and I
Speaker 1: can't tell you, Joe, the number of comments that I
Speaker 1: received from people as I travel now around the world,
Speaker 1: and people kind of sadly look at America now and say,
Speaker 1: what happened to you people on January six? That you
Speaker 1: would attack your own capital, hurt your own police off officers,
Speaker 1: try to uh derail your own constitutional process here. You're
Speaker 1: you're you're the standard bearer. You're you're what we looked
Speaker 1: up to and what we want to be and do,
Speaker 1: and you guys are having real problems there. Uh, this
Speaker 1: is a problem for US worldwide. If we want to
Speaker 1: project power, we will will compete against China. We will
Speaker 1: be a shining city on the hill. But we've got
Speaker 1: to get this under control, Joe. Whether it's you know,
Speaker 1: somebody going after the speaker, whether it's somebody you know
Speaker 1: shooting Steve Scalise, whether it's somebody beating up a a
Speaker 1: poll worker a canvas or down in republic a Republican
Speaker 1: campus or down in Florida. This has to stop. The
Speaker 1: rhetoric has to calm down. The parties can't be saying
Speaker 1: things like, you know, the Democrats want to destroy the country,
Speaker 1: or are Democrats saying about Republicans you know they're racists
Speaker 1: or they're all you know, the same kind of We
Speaker 1: have to tone down the rhetoric. Enemy of the American people, uh,
Speaker 1: Donald Trump calling Nancy Pelosi evil and so forth. You
Speaker 1: were a member of the nine eleven Commission, as I mentioned,
Speaker 1: you were, of course congressman from Indiana. If I missed
Speaker 1: a syllable there, Indiana and India sometimes bump into each other. Ambassador,
Speaker 1: Does there need to be another commission like that one?
Speaker 1: I mean, as opposed to what the January six committee did,
Speaker 1: and they've by the way, done some incredible work, a
Speaker 1: deep investigation here, just a massive presentation that they've put together,
Speaker 1: but it's also been you know, labeled as as political. Well,
Speaker 1: I do think we have to take a step back
Speaker 1: and first of all, make sure that this doesn't happen
Speaker 1: again between now an election day. The Department of Homeland
Speaker 1: Security just released the bulletin saying, um, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: domestic or azations are now more inclined between now an
Speaker 1: election day to harm poll workers or candidates, and that
Speaker 1: the FBI and the Homeland Security Department are issuing this
Speaker 1: warning to Americans. You know, this is enough, and we
Speaker 1: need to make sure that our neighbors who are poll workers,
Speaker 1: you know, Democrats and Republicans and Independents, go to make
Speaker 1: sure the votes are counted the right way. We want
Speaker 1: them protected. Now, what do you do about this long term? Joe?
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this. You know, do you do
Speaker 1: you create a commission? Uh? I don't know about that yet,
Speaker 1: but I do know there are things we can do
Speaker 1: in the short term things. So in our own lifetime,
Speaker 1: my wife and I have Republican and Democratic and independent
Speaker 1: friends over for dinner. We don't try to just self
Speaker 1: select only people we agree with to be friends with.
Speaker 1: I was at a university last night George Washington University.
Speaker 1: They asked me about this even though the Pelosi event
Speaker 1: hadn't happened yet, and I said, you folks need to
Speaker 1: invite people on campus and invite a Democrat and a
Speaker 1: Republican at the same time to be on stage together
Speaker 1: and talk respectfully and listen respectfully to one another and
Speaker 1: not be an example of hatred and selling distrust about
Speaker 1: each other and saying one party wants to destroy the other.
Speaker 1: And long term, Joe, maybe we need national service in
Speaker 1: this country to bring people together for a year, people
Speaker 1: from Alabama to New York, from California to Indiana. A
Speaker 1: year after high school, we all get together again in
Speaker 1: our lifetimes. We understand rural and urban life, north and South.
Speaker 1: We work on projects. Rich can't get out of it.
Speaker 1: Everybody has to do it equally. Um, you know, we
Speaker 1: we've got to do some things to bring the United
Speaker 1: States of America back together again where there's a lot
Speaker 1: to be said there. I'm really glad you could join us.
Speaker 1: Tim Romer, former Congressman, former nine eleven commission member, former
Speaker 1: U S Ambassador to India, a lot there to consider.
Speaker 1: We haven't even talked about Twitter yet. We thought we'd
Speaker 1: be leading with Elon Musk today because this is all
Speaker 1: tied in here. This is one big story about political speech,
Speaker 1: and I should know. The headline a redhead on the terminal.
Speaker 1: Right now, look at that. This will not come as
Speaker 1: a surprise to you if you've been following this. General
Speaker 1: Motors temporarily suspending ads on Twitter following the Musk deal. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: he's got another company. It's called Tesla. Let's assemble the panel.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to say Rick and Jeannie are both with
Speaker 1: us Rick Davis and Jeanie Schanzano Bloomberg Politics contributors. Genie,
Speaker 1: what was your thought this morning when you heard about
Speaker 1: this news? Obviously this is chilling, this is troubling. We're
Speaker 1: very glad that the speaker was not at home, but
Speaker 1: my god, what if she had been. That's right, you know, chilling, um,
Speaker 1: you know, it is the word that comes to mind.
Speaker 1: But you know one thing I did thought of not surprised.
Speaker 1: Not surprised, And I'll tell you why. Because the day
Speaker 1: shows that this is a widespread challenge. There's a really
Speaker 1: recent study from the University of Chicago. Percent of respondents,
Speaker 1: that's one in eight Americans said the use of force
Speaker 1: is necessary. Five percent said they would believe that violence
Speaker 1: is necessary to reinstate Donald Trump to the White House.
Speaker 1: That's about thirteen million Americans. And so when we talk
Speaker 1: about this as sort of a one off or you know,
Speaker 1: some individual who has acted, the data shows that this
Speaker 1: is much, potentially more widespread in terms of people who
Speaker 1: believe the use of force and violence is justified. And
Speaker 1: that is the reality we're facing. You know, less than
Speaker 1: two weeks before the mid term. This was not another
Speaker 1: January six. Obviously, Rick, this is a lone wolf, but
Speaker 1: doesn't matter now there are no lone wolves. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's one of many that have made a tax on
Speaker 1: public officials in this case, you know, public officials. Husband. Uh.
Speaker 1: It's really a disturbing aspect to society today. And just
Speaker 1: to build on what Genie was saying, that Capitol Police
Speaker 1: has have reported it since two thousand seventeen, there were
Speaker 1: three thousand, just just under four thousand UH threats against
Speaker 1: Congress Uh in one it was over nine thousand, five
Speaker 1: hundred and already two thousand in the first quarter of
Speaker 1: this year. So, you know, these are disturbing. We've got
Speaker 1: heard anecdotes about you know, Adam Kinsinger and Liz Cheney
Speaker 1: and Liz Elden and all these people that we talked about.
Speaker 1: But it's it's universal. And I do think um Tim
Speaker 1: Romer made actually, I think a good point. He's like,
Speaker 1: maybe we do need a bipartisan Commission on hate because
Speaker 1: right now it's boiling over. It's in our politics, it's
Speaker 1: in our society. It's presenting itself not just on the Internet,
Speaker 1: but in people's homes and where they work, and that
Speaker 1: is unacceptable. Well, I'll tell you, Look, you spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time on Capitol Hill, Rick, uh. Since but
Speaker 1: remember what a big deal it was when the gunman
Speaker 1: uh shot his way into the Capitol in it's been
Speaker 1: going on a long time. Rick. What security should lawmakers
Speaker 1: be provided by the government. Well, you know, look we've
Speaker 1: had things like the anthrax attacks, you know that shut
Speaker 1: down the Capitol for a month, and and and and look,
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't want to have to protect people
Speaker 1: with security, you know, around the clock. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: just because they're members of Congress and and you know
Speaker 1: we're going that is said. Uh, if there are specific
Speaker 1: threats against a member, they can request security. And and
Speaker 1: and by and large, the leadership gives it to them. UH,
Speaker 1: there's no interest in putting anybody at risk on either
Speaker 1: side of the party. But the reality is this is
Speaker 1: enormous undertaking. UH. And and and frankly, I think it
Speaker 1: rather than being defensive, you have to be offensive and
Speaker 1: go after the cause. I mean, the FBI says the
Speaker 1: number one throw against the country is UM, you know,
Speaker 1: domestic terrorism. Well, you know this is just one aspect
Speaker 1: of domestic terrorism. A terrorist attack is an attack on
Speaker 1: an elected official. And and so you know, where's the seat,
Speaker 1: Where where's the defense to part, where's the FBI? Where's
Speaker 1: I mean, like, it's not just the Capitol Hill police
Speaker 1: who need to provide UH security for for these members.
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is going to be a
Speaker 1: piece of legislation that comes out of the next Congress, Genie,
Speaker 1: to create new security details, provide more funding. By the way,
Speaker 1: she's there are still headlines coming in right now. Paul
Speaker 1: Pelosi UH is coming out of surgery successfully. This is
Speaker 1: great to read. Paul Pelosi's skull fracture procedure was successful,
Speaker 1: according to the Speaker's office. Genie, this is as we've
Speaker 1: made this point clearly, UH an issue on on both sides.
Speaker 1: What does that tell us when when people from both
Speaker 1: sides of the political spectrum I think it's it's okay
Speaker 1: to resort to violence, how do you tackle that it
Speaker 1: is both sides. You mentioned Scalise, Zelden, Kavanaugh, You can
Speaker 1: go right down the line. Governor Whitmer in Michigan. Um,
Speaker 1: you know Nancy Pelosi had a pig head and a
Speaker 1: spray painted house graffiti spray painted on her house before
Speaker 1: January said, Um, you know. And there's two aspects of this.
Speaker 1: One is the immediate issue that has to be addressed
Speaker 1: right away of security and protection for people. And it's
Speaker 1: not just members of Congress, it's also judges. It's also justices.
Speaker 1: Look at this, you know, the son of this judge
Speaker 1: in New Jersey who was brutally murdered inside her home
Speaker 1: by an assailant. So this is going on with public
Speaker 1: officials across the board. But the other part of this,
Speaker 1: which Rick was talking about, is the source. We have
Speaker 1: to do a better job of understanding what is causing
Speaker 1: thirteen million Americans or more to tell a polster that
Speaker 1: they feel this much anger, that violence justified. Well, and
Speaker 1: you know, leampathetic that it might be social media, you know,
Speaker 1: there might be other aspects, but that's where we have
Speaker 1: to understand. We have to address the issue at the
Speaker 1: cause and the source, not just try to protect these members,
Speaker 1: because you can't protect against thirteen million or more people
Speaker 1: who feel this way. Well, as I said, what a
Speaker 1: day to be talking about free speech, political discourse, the
Speaker 1: digital public square. As Elon closes the deal on Twitter
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of questions about what that
Speaker 1: will mean. As a layer of this conversation, we'll talk
Speaker 1: to Katherine Kenneeley coming up next, Institute for Strategic Dialogue.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg broadcasting live from our nation's capital, Bloomberg
Speaker 1: to New York, Bloomberg eleven Frio to Boston, Bloomberg one
Speaker 1: oh six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to
Speaker 1: the country, Serious XM Channel one, and around the globe
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matt Hughes. Do not
Speaker 1: worry about Twitter. The Content Moderation Council will fix everything.
Speaker 1: That seems to be the idea from Elon Musk today,
Speaker 1: speaking after he closed the deal. Many thought would never happen.
Speaker 1: Will explore what it means next for political speech with
Speaker 1: Katherine Kenney of the Institute for Strategic Dialogue. But first,
Speaker 1: kind of weird to do a ticker search for Twitter
Speaker 1: on the terminal. Have you tried that? Because you don't
Speaker 1: get a price it says acquired by private investor on two. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know that guy Elon Musk. With everyone now asking
Speaker 1: my gosh, what's his plan and what's he gonna do?
Speaker 1: There was such a period of time there where people
Speaker 1: didn't think this deal would happen at all. Of course,
Speaker 1: other than the terminal, good place to get news on
Speaker 1: Twitter as well Twitter, where Elon Musk himself tweets. Twitter
Speaker 1: will be forming a content moderation council with widely diverse viewpoints.
Speaker 1: The Content Moderation Council like something they pulled straight out
Speaker 1: of uh. Elon Musk, of course, told us months ago
Speaker 1: what his plans were for Twitter in what was an
Speaker 1: exclusive and market moving interview with Bloomberg. This brings us
Speaker 1: back to June Listen. I don't think my inspiration for it,
Speaker 1: or in general for the Digital town Square, would be
Speaker 1: that it is as inclusive in the broader sense of
Speaker 1: the word as possible. Um about it is it is
Speaker 1: an appealing as system to use. And at the time
Speaker 1: what else? What else did he say? Remember about offending people,
Speaker 1: letting people back onto Twitter? The whole Donald Trump story,
Speaker 1: it was all about well, your own experience, he said.
Speaker 1: He wanted to get half the world on here, half
Speaker 1: the world's population on a Twitter. Basically, let people do
Speaker 1: whatever the heck they want to do and let people
Speaker 1: control their own experience your zelon musk Again, if your
Speaker 1: preferences are to see anything or read anything, then well
Speaker 1: you'll get that and I But if your preferences are, well,
Speaker 1: you preferred not to see, uh, you know, comments that
Speaker 1: you find offensive in one form or another, then you
Speaker 1: you can have that as a setting and not see
Speaker 1: It all comes down to the settings. Wasn't that something though?
Speaker 1: That was back in It was June one talking with
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News. Now it's a done deal and as he says,
Speaker 1: no major decisions on content or account reinstatements Donald Trump
Speaker 1: will be made until the Content Moderation Council is part
Speaker 1: of the picture. Katherine Kenneley must have this all figured
Speaker 1: out already, Senior research manager at the Institute for Strategic dialogue. Catherine,
Speaker 1: I'm really glad you could join us here today. Everyone's speculating.
Speaker 1: No one really knows the impact that Elon Musk will
Speaker 1: have on Twitter. Are you worried about what it means
Speaker 1: for political discourse? Sure? And thank you for having me. So,
Speaker 1: we certainly are already seeing an emboldening, emboldening of hate
Speaker 1: actors that are expecting him to discard these safeguards. But
Speaker 1: what we really want to see is that if Musk
Speaker 1: really wants this to be the digital public square that
Speaker 1: he mounts, he should really start by addressing the systemic
Speaker 1: issues that he's already raised over the past a few months.
Speaker 1: Be it's increasing their algorithmic transparency and addressing an authentic activity. Um.
Speaker 1: Doing that, it'll finally give us insight into the platform
Speaker 1: that we we really don't know. But yes, we are
Speaker 1: certainly aith that, right, yeah, yeah, exactly, show us what
Speaker 1: about the algorithm, Like the algorithm is compared to the
Speaker 1: you know, the secret recipe for coke? Isn't that? Isn't
Speaker 1: that private corporate? Uh information? Why why make that public? Sure? So,
Speaker 1: we don't actually have a federal self or regulation for
Speaker 1: social media right now? So it is private. The reason
Speaker 1: why it should be made public is without that information,
Speaker 1: we do not know what makes us vulnerable to online manipulation,
Speaker 1: be it misinformation, disinformation, hate content, And without having that
Speaker 1: algorithm or algorithmic access um, we really just don't know
Speaker 1: how it works or and because we don't know how
Speaker 1: it works, we can't protect vulnerable users from abuse on
Speaker 1: the platform. When you hear a story like today, We've
Speaker 1: been talking this whole hour, Catherine, about the attack on
Speaker 1: the Pelosi household, the attack on Paul Pelosi specifically, the
Speaker 1: number of threats that are coming from social media alone
Speaker 1: are overwhelming law enforcement when they're trying to investigate these things.
Speaker 1: How does Elon must control that? I think what's important
Speaker 1: is there's no need, there's no requirement for him to
Speaker 1: control it. And this is not just a Twitter probra problem.
Speaker 1: This is a social media problem. What we really need
Speaker 1: is regulation across social media that comes from government, because
Speaker 1: what we've seen from the last decade or so is
Speaker 1: self regulation just simply isn't working. M self regulation, although
Speaker 1: he seems to think that he's going to be putting
Speaker 1: some guardrails in place here, What do you make of
Speaker 1: this idea of of the content Moderation Council. Does that
Speaker 1: encourage you or scare you? I mean, I'm glad to
Speaker 1: see that he's thinking about these things, that he's already
Speaker 1: considering how content is going to be monitored. But we're
Speaker 1: just going to have to wait to see how how
Speaker 1: that plays out and how it's forms A certainly skeptical
Speaker 1: good speculation right now? Does he put Donald Trump back
Speaker 1: on the platform? Should he? I don't. I don't know,
Speaker 1: um he should. I don't think that's where I should
Speaker 1: come in. Do you think he will? Though? I mean,
Speaker 1: that seems to be inevitable right if he's He's now
Speaker 1: the owner of a profitable business. I understand GM has
Speaker 1: just pulled its ads they compete with Tesla. Does does
Speaker 1: Donald Trump make this a more buzzworthy property? I don't
Speaker 1: think it makes it a more buzzworthy property, but I
Speaker 1: certainly would be considering whether advertisers want to remain on
Speaker 1: that platform. Should Trump be brought back on fascinating. I'll
Speaker 1: tell you We've got a lot to learn about this still,
Speaker 1: and I want to thank you for being with us. Katherine.
Speaker 1: She's the senior research manager at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue.
Speaker 1: Katherine Kenneely with us here on Bloomberg Sound On, I'm
Speaker 1: Joe Matthew and Washington as we wrapped the week with
Speaker 1: just an incredible set of headlines here as Elon Musk
Speaker 1: closes the deal to buy Twitter, just hours away from
Speaker 1: a whole new front in the conversation about political violence
Speaker 1: following the attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband. We'll talk about
Speaker 1: both once again as we reassemble the panel with Rick
Speaker 1: Davis and Jeannie Chanzano coming up here on sound On
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors, the best political panel in the business
Speaker 1: Traffic and Markets, as well, as we get ready to
Speaker 1: cross the threshold to the weekend together. I'm glad you
Speaker 1: joined us. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. You're listening
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg you sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: The big question, of course, about Twitter, remains the same.
Speaker 1: Are they going to let him back while they reinstate?
Speaker 1: The former president of the United States, And I'm not
Speaker 1: sure how that's gonna go. Does he come back if
Speaker 1: Helon asks him? Do they have to kind of arrange
Speaker 1: that in advance? Would be embarrassing if he didn't because well,
Speaker 1: he's got his own social media platform and came out
Speaker 1: with a statement today on the deal closing Donald Trump
Speaker 1: quote truth social It's become somewhat a phenomenon, he writes.
Speaker 1: Last week it had bigger numbers than all other platforms,
Speaker 1: including TikTok, Twitter, Facebook and the rest. If to see
Speaker 1: those numbers, it also looks and works better to my eye,
Speaker 1: he writes, I'm very happy Twitter is now insane hands
Speaker 1: and will no longer be run by radical left lunatics
Speaker 1: and maniacs. He says, the truly hate our country. This
Speaker 1: is same day of the Pelosi attack. Twitter must work
Speaker 1: hard to rid itself of all the bots and fake accounts.
Speaker 1: He says, this is the one they're looking for. It'll
Speaker 1: be much smaller, but better, and he ends by saying,
Speaker 1: I love truth all caps exclamation points. So uh, let's
Speaker 1: recall how much he did love Twitter, because remember, he
Speaker 1: had millions of people at his fingertips here. It helped
Speaker 1: him become the president of the United States. Kick back,
Speaker 1: what six years now? This is Donald Trump in six
Speaker 1: talking about this platform He's on. This stuff is great,
Speaker 1: This Twitter, It's so incredible. I have like between Twitter
Speaker 1: and Facebook and Instagram, I have like eleven or twelve
Speaker 1: million followers eleven it that's like it's sort of like
Speaker 1: owning the New York Times without the losses. Can you
Speaker 1: believe that? No, it's like incredible, boy, lots happened since then.
Speaker 1: Even sounds kind of different. Rick Davison, Jeanie Schanzana, we're
Speaker 1: here Bloomberg Politics contributors are signature panel to embrace the
Speaker 1: weekend along with us. Right now, Rick, does he make
Speaker 1: the jump because you've pointed out, you know, he's making
Speaker 1: money on this thing, truth Social. Yeah, I mean, look,
Speaker 1: the truth Social thing could be a huge boom for
Speaker 1: him if he's able to, you know, continue to add
Speaker 1: people to it and get advertisers and then take it public,
Speaker 1: which is all part of the plan. Uh, this was
Speaker 1: a spack deal, right, that never was a spack deal.
Speaker 1: It's run into some trouble, but it doesn't mean it
Speaker 1: can't rise up for another day and and and just
Speaker 1: remind everybody he didn't get paid to be on Twitter, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, and the one thing we knew about Donald
Speaker 1: Trump before he became present is he didn't get out
Speaker 1: of bed unless someone was going to pay him. So, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I I suspect regardless of what he thinks
Speaker 1: about Twitter, he thinks truth Social as he just text
Speaker 1: is much better and so because it's his and of
Speaker 1: course it must be much better. So my guess is
Speaker 1: he stays right where he is because of the economic
Speaker 1: upside that he's got for potential there. The funny thing
Speaker 1: is we always knew when he was getting out of bed,
Speaker 1: because that would be when he'd start tweeting. It was
Speaker 1: every newsroom he's up, He's up. You know, could be
Speaker 1: eight in the morning, eleven when the first salvos gone out.
Speaker 1: And I guess now it's it's just not the same
Speaker 1: with truth Social Genie. I know that you're you're a user,
Speaker 1: but what what does this say here? This is Elon's
Speaker 1: tweet today, no major content decisions or account reinstatements before
Speaker 1: the Content Moderation Council convenes. There's just something authoritarian sounding
Speaker 1: about the Content Moderation Council. Who's going to be on
Speaker 1: that thing? I hope? He asks us, Joe, And can
Speaker 1: you feel the wind? As Musk back pedals very hard
Speaker 1: from his absolute free speech stands, Yeah, it's very breezy
Speaker 1: in here. And the question now is which Elon Musk
Speaker 1: is showing up. Right. You know, we've all of a
Speaker 1: sudden got an Elon Musk who at you know, one
Speaker 1: time Elon Musk was you know, dissing all the advertisers.
Speaker 1: He was saying, you know, very critical things. He was
Speaker 1: critical at the people at Twitter, who were you know,
Speaker 1: cow towing as he liked to describe it, to the advertisers.
Speaker 1: And yet the businessman in him knows it's their revenue,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, within hours of owning it,
Speaker 1: he all of a sudden he is feeling very you know,
Speaker 1: sort of um much more friendly to the idea of
Speaker 1: content moderation, which, by the way, is a good thing.
Speaker 1: But it also raises the question as to how he's
Speaker 1: gonna walk both of these tracks at the same time.
Speaker 1: It's it's gonna be tough to pull off. And of course,
Speaker 1: all this follows him actually spending some time in the building, right,
Speaker 1: I know, he excused uh some management rick, but actually
Speaker 1: being in the building, becoming the owner of this platform
Speaker 1: might actually change the way he feels about some of
Speaker 1: these things. Yeah. Look, I mean it's kind of hard
Speaker 1: to tell how all this is going to shake down,
Speaker 1: because by the way. Part of what is also happening,
Speaker 1: Joe is there's a balkanization amongst all these different ideological
Speaker 1: groups into their own space around social media. You know,
Speaker 1: there's been a proliferation of new organization, not just true
Speaker 1: social that are you know, either uh, streaming information or
Speaker 1: doing Twitter like messaging. And so I think we're entering
Speaker 1: in this phase where uh, you know, everybody's sort of
Speaker 1: migrating to their own space. And it'll be interesting to
Speaker 1: see who migrates to Twitter. We've already seen, as you
Speaker 1: pointed out, you know, some advertisers uh looking to withdraw
Speaker 1: meet some very high profile Hollywood people are like, we're
Speaker 1: out of here, We're not gonna stick around. Um and
Speaker 1: and if he unleashes Twitter and let's the you know,
Speaker 1: um uh yeah, and other people come back on Yeah,
Speaker 1: how long I've been dying to do that? How long
Speaker 1: is it before other people bail out? Right? I mean like, so,
Speaker 1: uh it's I think we're going to see like the
Speaker 1: wild West of social media for a while, which is
Speaker 1: exactly probably what the country doesn't mean. But that's what
Speaker 1: happened to cable news, right. So the balkanization that Rick
Speaker 1: says Janie moves over to social media. Let's follow that
Speaker 1: for a second. What does that mean about the public discourse?
Speaker 1: Because Twitter could be left to be irrelevant at that point,
Speaker 1: right if the if the left goes it's way, the
Speaker 1: right goes its way. Everybody gets their Fox News away
Speaker 1: in an MSNBC. What's the point of this thing? That's right?
Speaker 1: And by the way, if Rick Davis can just say
Speaker 1: yea a thousand times over, that made my week, thank you?
Speaker 1: Reck um? Yeah, I mean that is the reality, right,
Speaker 1: and that's the that's what Elon Musk is trying to avoid.
Speaker 1: He wants to make Twitter the go to place for
Speaker 1: for speech of all kinds. But the reality is it
Speaker 1: could be a really ill conceived and bad idea to
Speaker 1: buy the thing. Because forty four billion was overpaying it
Speaker 1: at the beginning, it's certainly overpaying it now. He's stuck
Speaker 1: with it now, and he's of two minds on it,
Speaker 1: you know, free speech versus content moderation. But he needs
Speaker 1: also to have this thing be at least fairly lucrative
Speaker 1: or at least hold its own and it can't do
Speaker 1: that at this point without advertisers. So I think the
Speaker 1: real question here is how are you going to keep
Speaker 1: this afloat without advertisers? And if you're going to have
Speaker 1: after advertisers, they are going to walk off the platform
Speaker 1: if it becomes a home for crazy talk, and does
Speaker 1: it become just a home for milk coast rick the
Speaker 1: way you're talking, if left and right both go in
Speaker 1: their own direction, what's left in the middle? Yeah, well, um,
Speaker 1: a good question. I mean I think that, uh, I
Speaker 1: think that that's gonna be one of the things we're
Speaker 1: gonna find out, because like even Ya has been flirting.
Speaker 1: Didn't he buy parlor? Isn't that now this is platform?
Speaker 1: I mean, like is he coming back to Twitter? I
Speaker 1: mean like maybe he and Donald Trump can do you
Speaker 1: know a whole merger or something? And you know so
Speaker 1: so I don't know. I mean like it's uh, it's
Speaker 1: it's like this organization GAB that's a new right wing
Speaker 1: alternative to Twitter. You know, are people gonna move off
Speaker 1: a Twitter and on the gap because we don't like
Speaker 1: to be with people who aren't like us? And as
Speaker 1: as as you pointed out, the cable news sorted itself out,
Speaker 1: but now look what we have. Maybe CNN is saying, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe we've got to get back to the our roots
Speaker 1: of being just a news organization. Well, that's the most
Speaker 1: helpful thing that could possibly happen, I would think, with
Speaker 1: with the proliferation of MS dis and malinformation. So um,
Speaker 1: hopefully it's a movement in the right direction. Who knows.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll be the last one who will have
Speaker 1: the front row seat on how social media develops. I
Speaker 1: guess well, you're probably choosing wisely, Genie. All of us
Speaker 1: wants can just meeting in the boring zone here on
Speaker 1: your favorite channel, c SPAN. That's the way we do it, right.
Speaker 1: There is nothing boring about c SPAN. Joe Matthew, take
Speaker 1: it back right away. Is a compliment for crying out
Speaker 1: like they're more essential than ever. In my gosh, how
Speaker 1: c SPAN going to get along when all their money
Speaker 1: comes from cable TV? If everyone's cutting the cord. That's
Speaker 1: a show for another day. But as far as this
Speaker 1: is concerned, Elon Musk could look like a very different
Speaker 1: person rick to Genie's point with this Content Moderation Council,
Speaker 1: is he about to let down conservatives who think that
Speaker 1: this is you know, he's about to unleash whatever fire
Speaker 1: they've been looking for on Twitter? What idiot would join
Speaker 1: a membership into the council. I mean, like you gotta
Speaker 1: be nuts, right, I mean like I'd like to paint
Speaker 1: a target on you today, Joe. I've never give this
Speaker 1: free pass into the Content Moderation Council. And so that
Speaker 1: everybody who's on Twitter can complain to you that that's
Speaker 1: really true. But I guess to your point, g And
Speaker 1: he's hearing about this now, right. He's hearing from advertisers,
Speaker 1: he's hearing from people inside the building. I do find
Speaker 1: it fascinating that GM has pulled out a lot of
Speaker 1: folks were wondering if something like that would happen, not
Speaker 1: because of politics as much as he owns a car company. Uh,
Speaker 1: do they want to reveal their digital media strategy to
Speaker 1: the guy who runs Tesla Genie? That's right? I mean,
Speaker 1: those are the other complications here. And you know, this
Speaker 1: content oversight board he's planning sounds very much like what
Speaker 1: Facebook has done, and and that you know, people got
Speaker 1: a good chuckle out of what Facebook has done there,
Speaker 1: and today they were tweeting they welcome the opportunity to
Speaker 1: talk to Twitter about their plans and content moderation and
Speaker 1: let's not forget Twitter already had a content moderation or
Speaker 1: a security area, if you will, and he, you know,
Speaker 1: Elon Musk used to joke about that and laugh about it.
Speaker 1: Those people are gone now as of yesterday, and he's
Speaker 1: putting something similar with a much more you know, ominous
Speaker 1: sounding to your point name in place, and hard to
Speaker 1: imagine that people who are free speech absolutists are going
Speaker 1: to feel like this is the place they want to be.
Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, he also said, you know,
Speaker 1: he's not going to end the permanent bands quite yet.
Speaker 1: That's going to come after the board meets, so will
Speaker 1: start a punk rock band called the Content Moderation Council.
Speaker 1: Somebody get it done. Let us know. We'll play your music. Genie,
Speaker 1: thank you, Rick, thank you. What a week? My god?
Speaker 1: How does all of this stuff happen all in one day?
Speaker 1: Rick Davis and Jeannie Chanzano our signature panel helping us
Speaker 1: walk into the weekend. As we leave you with the
Speaker 1: sounds of the killer, Yeah, there he is, did you hear?
Speaker 1: Jerry Lee Lewis died today. This time it was real eighties,
Speaker 1: seven years old, son of a Pentecostal preacher. His cousin
Speaker 1: was Jimmy Swagger. Did you know that taught himself how
Speaker 1: to play and he was a walking scandal after marrying
Speaker 1: his thirteen year old cousin. But much like politics, she
Speaker 1: left us breathless. I'll see you back here Monday on
Speaker 1: the fastest hour in politics. This is Bloomberg, readyless