1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: Buddy Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. The world is laid 2 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 1: out before you when you start talking about things like 3 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: gap years. It's an exciting time for a college student 4 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: who or a student that is going to go into 5 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: college to take that gap year. And sometimes you'll have 6 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: gap years. Sometimes people will start college and then say 7 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: after their sophomore year, I'm gonna take a gap year 8 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: and just travel. And look, I got no problem with 9 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: that man. And you know, it's like you get family, 10 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: you get kids, those days are gone, they're gone. My 11 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: wife and I have come to travel later in our 12 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: lives and we do love travel. We do. We've been 13 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: to Great Britain several times, and as matter of fact, 14 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: we visited the area where our subject of today's episode 15 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: originated from, Essex. But there's one place that I've always 16 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: wanted to go, and that's New Zealand. And today we're 17 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: going to talk about a case that so captured the 18 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: imagination of a country who is not used to violent crime. 19 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: This is one of those moments in times where it 20 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: this event so shocked the conscience of a country that 21 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: you could not peel them away from the news. They wanted, 22 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: I think to try to understand it because some things, 23 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: particularly in those areas that we discuss, there's really no 24 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: answers most of the time. Why goes out the door. 25 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about the homicide of Grace Mulane. 26 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is bodybacks David that 27 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: it's hard to take the measure of this crime that 28 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: took place in New Zealand back in twenty eighteen. Now 29 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: it's resonated over all of these years because of the 30 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: level of brutality. And I think this Stranger on Stranger 31 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: event where you've got this young, innocent lady who is 32 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: literally taking a gap year into tribesing around the world. 33 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 2: I so you mentioned that, you know, Grace Mulane was 34 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 2: taking that gap year, and gap years can be applied 35 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 2: to after high school or after college, either way you 36 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: look at it. Oftentimes a gap year after high school 37 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 2: ends up being a gap career, but a gap year 38 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 2: after college can open your eyes to the rest of 39 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 2: the world because a college atmosphere can be so liberal 40 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 2: or just one way, and you get away for a 41 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 2: year and realize what reality's like. And Grace Mulane was 42 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 2: doing that. She had this gap year and she had 43 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 2: a plan and she ended up going to New Zealand 44 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: and she was camping and doing the things she wanted 45 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 2: to do. But Grace Mulane was also looking at the 46 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 2: world and living it using the dating app Tender, and 47 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: it was through the dating app Tender that she met 48 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 2: Jesse Kimpson. Jesse Kimpson used Tender before, during, and after 49 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: Grace Mulane. The reason we're doing the show about twenty 50 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 2: one year old Grace mulanine murder by Jesse Kimpson is 51 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: I want to point something out to you that while 52 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 2: she's dead, he's killed her and her body is still 53 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 2: in his hotel room. He went out on another Tender date. 54 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: That is Jesse Kimpson in a nutshell. So that's the 55 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 2: story today. A woman who has gone through college has 56 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 2: taken a year to go see the world and she's 57 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 2: living that dream and gets snuffed out by a guy 58 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 2: she meets on Tender. And by the way, you know, 59 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 2: we have CCTV footage of their date. Did you know that, Joe? 60 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: Oh? 61 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a timeline of the night they met, 62 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 2: the night they got together. We have pictures from five 63 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 2: point forty five that evening of a very alive and 64 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 2: thriving Grace Mulane as she arrives in the front of 65 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 2: this casino twenty foot tall Christmas tree, such a thing. 66 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 2: She actually stood there waiting for her date, her tender date, 67 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 2: Jesse Kimpson, and she is so enamored with the tree 68 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 2: she takes a picture and sends it to her family 69 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 2: in Essex. He arrives Jesse does, They hug and proceed 70 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 2: to go on their date. Six o'clock, the two of 71 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: them were walking into a casino. They find Andy's burger Bar. 72 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 2: I wonder if this is kind of like if Andy's 73 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 2: burger Bar is similar to a demolition man where everything 74 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: was named Taco Bell you know where. Yeah, that's what 75 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 2: I picture Andy's burger Bar being, because they actually go 76 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 2: in there and order drinks, find a table, and are 77 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 2: chilling out on their date. Seven twelve, they're seen leaving 78 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 2: the burger bar going across the road to a Mexican cafe. 79 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 2: They spend the next hour until Kemsen comes to pay 80 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 2: the bill with her standing right beside him. And eight 81 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 2: twenty seven, the pair is filmed from a distance now, 82 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 2: but you can see them crossing Albert Street and They 83 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 2: head into the Bluestone room, where Kimson had earlier been 84 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 2: drinking beer alone. By this point in the evening, they kiss. 85 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: This is a tender date in her eyes, what going 86 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: really well? Nine pm CCTV shows Grace Mullane and Jesse 87 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 2: Kimpson entering the hotel where Kimson is living at the time. 88 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 2: They entered the elevator and they head to Kimson's room 89 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: what they call an apartment. That's the last time we 90 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 2: see Grace Mullane alive. We know that she is brutally murdered, 91 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 2: possibly possibly Joe in the early morning hours of December second. 92 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 2: By the way, that's her birthday. Grace Mullane might have 93 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: been killed, brutally murdered on her twenty second birthday. 94 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that was one of the things that really 95 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: I think struck home with the family was that it 96 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 1: was I might get the number wrong, but I think 97 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: it was like twenty six or seven different birthday wish 98 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: wishes text that had seemingly gone ignored and you know, 99 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: relative to you know, the family thinking about this, We've got. 100 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: A girl so attached to her mom. She takes a 101 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: picture of the Christmas tree and sends it to her. 102 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that at some point in time 103 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: she had sent a text talking about how well things 104 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: were going, that she felt like she had a connection 105 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: with this guy. And I still don't you know, I 106 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: don't understand how you can have a connection with somebody 107 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: in this shorter period of time. Maybe they had been 108 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: talking on tender maybe that was already you know that 109 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: that had already kind of been brought about, you know, 110 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: the seeds that had been planted, And you feel fin 111 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: of this, this kind of connection with someone, so you're 112 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: predisposed to it. 113 00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: A friend who got married on her first date. 114 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, they met. I've avoided that trap. 115 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: They met and hooked up and went, wow, this you're 116 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: the You're the person I've been waiting for, they said it. Yeah, 117 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 2: and they got married. I mean we're talking. I didn't 118 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: know you before the sun came up yesterday. You are 119 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 2: now my spouse for life that before the sun comes 120 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 2: up again, and they're still together thirty years later. 121 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: Holy smokes. Well wow, good for them. I have to 122 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: imagine that that's got to be kind of a rarity. Yeah. 123 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 2: I got to feel that that's not the norm. 124 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, it wouldn't that wouldn't fly with me. It took me. 125 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: I don't know with Kim that I think it. I 126 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: think it took us eight months. But still and by 127 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: some measure, that's that's pretty quick. But wow, uh yeah, 128 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: And so I don't see how how someone can connect 129 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: that quickly. And and let's face it, get this intimate. Yeah, 130 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: because we're talking, we're talking a level of intimacy here 131 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 1: that and there's two types of intimacy. You have intimacy 132 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: from an emotional standpoint, where you're sharing with one another 133 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: and talking and maybe you find a common ground. But 134 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: then you have sexual intimacy. Now, whether or not she 135 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: Grace was interested in a sexual encounter with him, I 136 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: don't know, But I do know that the level of 137 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: brutality that is apparently involved or was involved in this 138 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: case reached such a height that it's evidenced in the 139 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 1: fact that in the wake of him having killed her, 140 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: you had mentioned he went back on tender. In addition 141 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: to that he as her as her remains are in 142 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: the room, he's actually searching out and that he's oscillating 143 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: between these two things. Just imagine this, just for a second. 144 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: He's thinking about ways to get rid of human remains. 145 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: He even goes so far as to search out birds 146 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: that will consume human flesh in New Zealand, what specific 147 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: species exists. Oh and by the way, he was also 148 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: spicing things up with her cooling remains laying there on 149 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: the floor of that hotel room. He was also viewing 150 00:10:43,840 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: pornography at the same time. Dave, I started out as 151 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: a death investigator so young that this is why really 152 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: young people do not need to be death investigators. You 153 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: were not seasoned enough in the things of the world 154 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: in order to appreciate full scope and magnitude of what 155 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: you're looking at. I think. And here's my example. I remember, 156 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: I couldn't have been any more than I think twenty 157 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 1: four and I worked what was ruled as a homicide 158 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: by our office of a case involving sexual frenzy in 159 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: the bedroom where the two people that were engaging in 160 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: sexual activity together were so ramed up, so sexually stimulated 161 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: that rough sex came into play, and the individual that 162 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: wound up being the perpetrator in this crime got so 163 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: carried away that they were slapping this person around and 164 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: choking them at the same time. In the person succumb 165 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: to to asshixia, and this is there was not a 166 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: pattern of this behavior with multiple partners. It had been 167 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: stated in this case that they had engaged in this 168 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: behavior before. And I'm just talking about this from my 169 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: perspective as a very young death investigator. I didn't I 170 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: didn't know that that sort of thing went on. You know, 171 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: you hear about these things with B DSM and all 172 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: these sorts of things, but you don't until you actually 173 00:12:54,559 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: see this person lying there and on the bed. I'll 174 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: never forget her laying there nude, and her head was 175 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: just purple. It was purple because he had asphyxiated her 176 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: with his bare hands. I couldn't really make sense of 177 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: it because I'd had asphyxial homicides prior to that, but 178 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: not with the sexual component. It was always like just 179 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: out and out anger, I'm going to choke the life 180 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: out of you, that sort of thing. It wasn't like 181 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: a sexual practice, and it was the first time i'd 182 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: seen that. And you know, with this particular case, you've 183 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: got pathology going on between this individual's ears regarding these practices. 184 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: I think that this is something that this individual was 185 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: seeking out and who better, who better to target than 186 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: this young woman who's traveling. One thing that I failed 187 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: to mention earlier is that she had just arrived in 188 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: in New Zealand, having spent several weeks traveling. Six weeks 189 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: traveling about South America. What a grand but what a 190 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 1: grand adventure. Huh. That's what I think when you think 191 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: about it, this, this is like perfection. I would and 192 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: she was stayed in hostels. Uh, you know all along 193 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: the way, saved money. I've stayed in hostels before in 194 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: Great Britain. 195 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 2: She was making a lifelong trip, one that you tell 196 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 2: your it's the trip you tell your family about. 197 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: Oh. 198 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know, six weeks in South America. Just reminded 199 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 2: when when everything came about and she goes to ok 200 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 2: when you mentioned she just got there. I don't know 201 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 2: what kind of tender relationship they had in terms of 202 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 2: because I don't I don't under Okay, I don't use tender. 203 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 2: I'm married. I don't These things didn't exist when you know, 204 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 2: so this whole there's I know, I know what they are, 205 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 2: but I don't know how people true used them. It's 206 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 2: kind of like, you know, a lot of people claim 207 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 2: a lot of things are available, but you just kind 208 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 2: of look at it and go yeah, right, sure, okay, right, 209 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 2: but there are people who do you know, casual sex 210 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 2: or what have you. You know, you meet somebody on tender, 211 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 2: they look good, You go about, you get along. Hey, 212 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 2: let's just go finish the evening off. Here we go. 213 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't I'm not saying that's good, bad, 214 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 2: or indifferent. I'm saying it does happen. She spends six 215 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 2: weeks in South America doing, you know, whatever she wants 216 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 2: to do. All I was thinking because of the way 217 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 2: it ended, isn't it odd that she picks South America? 218 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 2: Where after you're on Vandersloue did whatever he did with 219 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 2: Natalie Holloway. He ends up going to South America, and 220 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 2: what happens. He meets a girl in playing blackjack. He 221 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 2: gets her to his hotel room. It's running the anniversary 222 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 2: of Natalie Holloway's murder. And what happens He kills her 223 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: in the hotel room, yep, and leaves her body in 224 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 2: there and goes for coffee. I mean, I'm thinking, how 225 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 2: odd it is that she was I'm thinking, there are 226 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 2: men you're in Vandersloop, Robert Chambers that actually exists to 227 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 2: terrorize and torture women and claiming sex. 228 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean you could even you could even 229 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: go back to what was it called the boy It 230 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: escapes me now, uh, the it's not back page, it's 231 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: the uh the murder. Uh this guy had Craigslist murder. 232 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: A Craigslist murderer. Yeah. And and so there's been a 233 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: template for this for some time, and that that's the 234 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: scary thing about all of these is that you you 235 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: don't know who's behind the veil is the problem, and 236 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: you don't know what is waiting for you out there, 237 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: and you're you're vulnerable. Boy, is she ever vulnerable? Because 238 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: you know, he the perpetrator is a he is a Kiwi. 239 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: He's he's from New Zealand. You know this is his homecoming. Dude. 240 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: She's she's come from South America. She knows nobody, all right, 241 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: She's there in this environment, having freshly. You can imagine 242 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: the excitement you know that she's experiencing upon it. 243 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 2: I'm just enamored with her. I mean, well, a woman, 244 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 2: a young woman that has that kind of foresight and 245 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 2: the guts that takes. You have to really really have 246 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 2: confidence in life and in yourself to create this kind 247 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 2: of opportunity to go and spend six weeks in South 248 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 2: America and head to Auckland, New Zealand. Again, a lot 249 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 2: of people talk about the dreams they have in life. 250 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 2: She's doing. She's twenty one years old and she's living in. 251 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I got to say something about my friends 252 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: in Great Britain. They raise their children to do this. Actually, Yeah, 253 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: I'm amazed my British friends that I encounter how often 254 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: they travel, you know, outside of Great Britain as families. 255 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 1: You know, they'll go in holiday place, they'll go for 256 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: Christmas and in foreign land. You know this It's not 257 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: something that we're used to doing in America. My son Noah, 258 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: after we had taken him to Great Britain several times, 259 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: he went over and went to Great Britain by himself 260 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: for Christmas because and he stayed at the home of 261 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: some friends that we had made outside of Liverpool. And 262 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: he's just that kind of adventurous soul. 263 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 2: Do they call themselves Liverpoodlians. 264 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: Yes, Liverpudlians, I believe it's a correct term. But yeah, 265 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: lovely people and uh and very generous, very kind, but Liverpool. 266 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 2: And walk around and say do you know, John Paulnah. 267 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: It's a fantastic, fantastic trip and we certainly enjoyed it. 268 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 2: All right. So, but just so I can be clear, 269 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 2: because I didn't know this, okay, and I'm going to 270 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 2: assume a lot of folks done. I didn't know that, 271 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 2: but that this was kind of a thing that in 272 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 2: Great Britain parents encourage their children to do. Young adults 273 00:18:58,040 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 2: they do. 274 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: You know, we're so so we're very sheltered here in 275 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: the US. We're not. We don't do international travel like 276 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: people that live abroad, right and broad that's yeah, broad 277 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: to us. 278 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 2: And so because their countries are so close to one. 279 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 2: In other words, you and I might travel between Alabama, Georgia, 280 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 2: South Carolina, North Carolina and what have you. Well, if 281 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 2: you're in Europe, you're going from Germany to Poland to Austria, 282 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 2: you know, France, you know. 283 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, as an example, you know, the same couple 284 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: that came to celebrate their their anniversary in New York 285 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: and they were and their goal was to make it 286 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: to Vegas. That's what they wanted to do. They wanted 287 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: to go to Vegas and this was I think one 288 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: of their first journeys to the US. They said, yeah, 289 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 1: we got on the plane and headed to Vegas. We 290 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,959 Speaker 1: had no idea that it was a long way from 291 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: New York to Vegas. It took forever to get there. 292 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: Because you know, if you if you can fly the Hephrow, 293 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: you know, and go go, you can go to the 294 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: Czech Republic, or you go to Switzerland and you're there 295 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: in the blink of an eye. It's yeah, and they're 296 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: speaking a different language. It's not like that here, and so. 297 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I didn't think about that. So yeah, no, 298 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 2: I get it. 299 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's it's inexpensive to fly to do these 300 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: little hops over there. But here, you know, we're we're 301 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: kind of trapped in this. So the fact that Grace 302 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: did this really speaks to the type of person she was, 303 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,959 Speaker 1: you know, setting out on this grand adventure to travel 304 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: the world. She was going to spend a year doing this. 305 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: And the problem arises though, when you're a stranger in 306 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: a strange land, you don't know who's out there waiting, 307 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: and you can place yourself in some very very difficult situations. 308 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,959 Speaker 1: I can't imagine what her parents were we're having to 309 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: deal with, particularly when you if you have a child 310 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: that is missing, that they have come off of your radar, 311 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: and you are literally thousands upon thousands of miles away 312 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: from them, and there is nothing you can do to 313 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: try to track her down or save her or provide 314 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: for her. You're just you're at the mercy of the 315 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: authorities in that particular country, and that's what they were 316 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: dealing with. The one thing you can say about New 317 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 1: Zealand other than it is apparently a lovely place with 318 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: lovely people, very beautiful country, is that once you get 319 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: out of places like christ Church in Auckland, you're out 320 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 1: in the wilderness at that point in time. A lot 321 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 1: of undeveloped areas out there. Wild wild sometimes equals beauty, 322 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: and it's a short trip to really getting lost, I think, 323 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: which is very attractive I think in a place like 324 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: that and just to kind of explore the countryside and 325 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: see how gorgeous it is. But you know, here, when 326 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 1: you're talking about a case like this where you have 327 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: a foreigner that has come into a place that she 328 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: is not familiar with, and they're around an individual who 329 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: is aware of their surroundings and where you can go, 330 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: she's at a distinct disadvantage. Oh boy. However, however, here's 331 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 1: the thing I would say, the perpetrator in this case 332 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: was not fully aware of his surroundings, because David, I 333 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: got to tell you, brother, out of the cases that 334 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 1: we cover, I don't know that I have seen a 335 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: case where the movements of one individual are documented by 336 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: so much videography, including one of the most chilling things 337 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: that I think that we could ever bear witness to, 338 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 1: and that is him stepping onto an elevator with no 339 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: grace but a suitcase in his hand, and it just 340 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: it goes from bad to worse. At that point in time. 341 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 2: When I was earlier and talking about the timeline that 342 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 2: night of because I wanted to point out that in 343 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 2: a lot of communities like that, they have CCTV cameras 344 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 2: all over Great Britain, New Zealand. The things that I'm 345 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 2: not aware of, you know, you're being observed, yeah, right, 346 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,719 Speaker 2: and everywhere in the US it's like that in some 347 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 2: urban areas and but for the most part it's you know, 348 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,719 Speaker 2: a lot of times it's ring doorbell cameras that we 349 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 2: hear about, but when we do stories overseas, it's oftentimes 350 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 2: CCTV camera and you can follow in this case, document 351 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 2: their date that night and where they were. 352 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: From beginning to end. And then you throw in this 353 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: other element, which is has tremendous forensic value, is the 354 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 1: text that were going out, and then anything that's contained 355 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: on that tender app as well. But go ahead right now. 356 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 2: That's why I was going to ask you, because now 357 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 2: well you know, we know that as we mentioned, Grace 358 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 2: had spent six weeks in South America. She was on 359 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 2: this one year gap year backpack around the world trip, 360 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 2: which is just gutsy is I'll get out, not because 361 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 2: she's a woman, but because she's doing it by herself 362 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 2: and planning. It's it's not an easy thing to do, 363 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 2: even just I wouldn't encourage anybody to go on a 364 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 2: trip by themselves ever, but that's just me. In this case, 365 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,239 Speaker 2: she gets there and she's planning, she had all planned out. 366 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 2: She was spending two weeks in New Zealand, she had 367 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 2: spent six weeks in South America. She's got two weeks 368 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 2: here she's backpacking and doing whatever, and I love it, 369 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 2: I just guts I love it. But her of hook 370 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 2: meeting up with Kemsen and as we detailed her at 371 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 2: the timeline of their date all the way back to 372 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 2: the hotel, and from what I understand, our last pictures 373 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 2: of her alive was the night before her you know, 374 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 2: December one, in the evening, and they get off the 375 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 2: they go into his room and that's it. We do 376 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,719 Speaker 2: not see Grace mulane alive after she turns twenty two 377 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 2: years old on December second. 378 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and let me let me kind of describe this 379 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: guy for you. When you see him. You know, one 380 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: of the things that New Zealand is known for. I 381 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: think they're called the All Blacks is the name of it. 382 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: Their national rugby team. They are renowned. This guy when 383 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: you see him, Dave, I don't know if you've ever 384 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: been around a rugby player. This guy looks like he 385 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,479 Speaker 1: could play rugby. Now, as it turns out, he had 386 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: played on some kind of national softball team or something 387 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: like this. This guy is a hulking mass. And when 388 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 1: you see Grace, she's she's tiny. I mean, she's not 389 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: like this, this big, robust young lady. She is very tiny. 390 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: This guy, when you see there's actually CCTV footage riding 391 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: up what they refer to as the Lift. Of course, 392 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: that's that's the elevator. This young lady has got an 393 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: expression on her face that is just joy. You can 394 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 1: see her. It's it's she's very she has very soft 395 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: appearance about her, like she's happy, she's contented. But she's 396 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: standing next to this guy, Dave. He looks like he's 397 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: got like a fifty two inch chest, broad shoulders, you know, 398 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: really a big big man. And they're riding up this 399 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: elevator together. And this is essentially the last few moments 400 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: that you see her, and then it comes to this 401 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: horrific end in that hotel room. And it was it 402 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: was so horrific Dave, that he felt compelled to go 403 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: and rent a carpet cleaner. Just think about that. He 404 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: had left this apartment slash hotel room that he's staying in. 405 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: He bought a large suitcase. Boy cleaning supplies all these 406 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: sorts of things, and he comes back to make make 407 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: off with her body and the next and we can 408 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: only surmise that when you see him exiting this this elevator, 409 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: he's got it's a silver plastic suitcase that's probably the 410 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: biggest one that you could that you could purchase. And 411 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: you know for a fact that she's folded up in there, Dave. 412 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: And the thing about it is he did this. You 413 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: know how I talked about how there were you know, 414 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: he was engaged in watching pornography and all these sorts 415 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 1: of things while she lay dead in the room. Here's 416 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: some of the other things that he searched out while 417 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: she's there. Now they know this for a fact, that 418 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: he had searched out. This is like that one nine 419 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: to six am. 420 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 2: And this is after. There's always a question mark of 421 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 2: winter person dies. And I have to ask you, Joe, 422 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 2: can you identify based on what you know right now 423 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 2: he's doing searches at one twenty nine, is Grace already dead? Yes, 424 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 2: So he kills her less than an hour and twenty 425 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 2: nine minutes into December the second. Now we don't know 426 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 2: when she died, but could you determine based on knowing 427 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 2: that got back to the hotel all at section and 428 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 2: such time we see them getting off the hotel elevant, Yes, 429 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 2: and then the time that he's on searching porn you 430 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,239 Speaker 2: can determine. 431 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: It, yeah, because they had you know, they essentially entered 432 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: back the place. The place that he's staying at is 433 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: called city Life Auckland and they literally just essentially walk 434 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: across the lanes of the adjacent road and they're they're 435 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: at this place. And so when he's going up there, 436 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: this is what I believe. I think that he had 437 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: identified her as somebody that he wanted to engage in 438 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: this sexual behavior with. He planned on her not leaving 439 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: that room, that he was going to indulge in this 440 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: this fantasy that he had worked out in his mind. 441 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: I found it, you know, I found it very interesting 442 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: that at his trial. I hate this. I hate this 443 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: damn term, Dave, I really do. It's so dismissive. The 444 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: term is called misadventure. Oh, I had the defense. The 445 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: defense used that term that this was just a sexual misadventure. 446 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: You know that it's it's rough sex, and it's just 447 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: a misadventure, you know. Misadventure to me means that you've 448 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: made some type of mistake, you know, and that it 449 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: can be that there's some kind of justification for it. 450 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: But when you go when you see the kind of 451 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: planning that he had gone through and that he had 452 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: identified her, she met something within his mind, within his 453 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: this dreamscape that he has and he's acting out of 454 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: fantasy with her, and it's It's absolutely brutal what he 455 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: had done, because as as she lay there deceased in 456 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: this room, Dave, he searched out things like roger mortis, 457 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: and I think I know why he did that. He's 458 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: trying to determine if the level of rigidity in her 459 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: body is he going to be able to fold her 460 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: to get in Just let your teeth sink into this. 461 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: Is he going to be able to fold her and 462 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: manipulate her body to get her body into this suitcase? Now? 463 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: How horrific is that. It's not like he's searching out 464 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: liver mortis or postport vidity or algor mortives, which is 465 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: body temperature. No, no, No, he's looking for rigidity. He wants 466 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: to try to understand can he manipulate her arms, her waist, 467 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: her knees to fold her over to fit her into 468 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: this suitcase. That's what he's trying to understand. He's also 469 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: searching out terms, Dave, like hottest fire, what's the how 470 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: hot do you need a fire in order to dispose 471 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: of the body. And you couple that with these scavenger 472 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: animals that he's looking for, specifically birds, what type of 473 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: birds are in this particular area that if I left 474 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: her out, I guess exposed that they would come and 475 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: diminish her body out there. That's where this guy's mind is, Dave. 476 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: The only saving grace here, I would say that could 477 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: lend some credence to what the defenses has opined in 478 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: his case was that he hadn't bought these things beforehand, 479 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: and as a matter of fact, he didn't even have 480 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: a shovel in his possession. But this is so key here. 481 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: He actually searched out something else, Dave. He searched out 482 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: a location to get rid of her body. The place 483 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: is called the way Tackrii Ranged. And if you're looking 484 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: on a map of Auckland, which Auckland actually occupies, they 485 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: have two islands in in New Zealand, Uh, you have 486 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: North Island, South Island, and if you go to the 487 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: west of of of Auckland, there is this wilderness range 488 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: out there, uh, the way Tackria Range, where there's you know, 489 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of wildlife. It's National parks out there. 490 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: He's looking for a place to put as much distance 491 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: between himself and her body. But what what he's not 492 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: counting on, I think is the fact that he's everywhere 493 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: he's going he's leaving this electronic you know, uh, these 494 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: electronic uh little of footprints behind him and in her case, 495 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: and it's it's very damning evidence. 496 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 2: They about all of this that drives me beyond you 497 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 2: mentioned misadventure. Yeah, and the fact that Jesse Kimpson preyed 498 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 2: upon Grace Mulane. He knew that she was backpacking alone 499 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 2: across the you know, she had two weeks in New Zealand. 500 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 2: He's from there, and he he zeros in on her 501 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 2: and then he plays hardball to get her to agree 502 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 2: to go out for drinks. She didn't have any plans. 503 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 2: He talks her into it and they meet up and 504 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 2: her the last night of her life begins with meeting 505 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 2: up with Jesse Kimpson, who, based on what transpires between 506 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 2: the time that they get back to the hotel and 507 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 2: the time that we know he's looking at porn at 508 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 2: one twenty nine am, he was able to do whatever 509 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 2: he wanted to her and kill her. Now can you 510 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 2: tell did he use a garrett of some type to 511 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,720 Speaker 2: strangle her? Did he use his hands? How did Jessekimpson 512 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,879 Speaker 2: kill Grace Mulane? 513 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: Well, it was it was actually he throttled her to death, 514 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: Dave with his hands. And again that's not surprising in 515 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: a case like this, because there's something the tactile nature 516 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: of an attack like this where you can As horrible 517 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: as this is, but I need to go ahead and 518 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: lay this out to everyone listening. 519 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 2: I don't understand what throttle means either. 520 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: Well, throttling is you're wrapping your hands around their throat, okay, 521 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: just like you and you can do it either from 522 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: the rear from the front. And so when you wrap 523 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 1: your hands around someone's neck, it intensifies this sexual experience, 524 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,720 Speaker 1: right because it's flesh on flesh. It's flesh on flesh. 525 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: You have this sensation of their warm skin beneath your fingertips, 526 00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: and you are literally, you know, driving them of their life. 527 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: The pathologists and you know, they they were uh, they 528 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: were able to go to the range, this mountain range 529 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: and and began to uh recover her remains out there. 530 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 1: They recovered her in a very very short order. And 531 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: it's not like she lay out in the wilderness in 532 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: the suitcase for months and months and months. It was 533 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: literally within days that they had recovered her. When the 534 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 1: pathologists actually examined her body, Dave, this is kind of 535 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: an interesting, interesting little aside. The pathologists saw evidence of restraint, 536 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: and when I said restraint, I'm not talking like tying 537 00:36:55,560 --> 00:37:00,879 Speaker 1: somebody down. There were bruises on her body that gave 538 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: the indication that there was tremendous amount of pressure put 539 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: on these peripheral areas, like on the arms or the shoulders, 540 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: perhaps with his knees, where he's pressing down on her 541 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 1: and leaving these big contusions on her as he's wrapping 542 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: his hands around her throat to choke her to death. 543 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,359 Speaker 1: I think the bold nature of all of this is 544 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: that his actions after it's almost like he's in some 545 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:33,800 Speaker 1: kind of sexual frenzy. I've often thought about when people 546 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: work themselves up under these circumstances, it's almost like a 547 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: feeding frenzy with sharks. Have you ever seen those images 548 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: of sharks rolling over the water. Because you know, you 549 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: had rightly mentioned that he had this other tender date. 550 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: We had mentioned he's looking at porn. He's hyper stimulated 551 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: at this point in time, and he's going on to 552 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 1: the next thing to try to maintain that dopamine high 553 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: or whatever it is that he's got going on in 554 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: his brain and the boldness of somebody to purchase a 555 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: suitcase and to rent a carpet cleaning machine, which he 556 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: later returned after he utilized this thing, and then to 557 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: hire a car, Dave, to hire a car to transport 558 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: her body in You know, you place the suitcase in 559 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: the in the trunk or in the boot, as they say, 560 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: and you transport her body out there, stopping along the 561 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: way by the way to purchase a shoal a shovel 562 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: because he didn't need. 563 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,799 Speaker 2: To have that. He didn't know what he needed to 564 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 2: dispose of her body, but he had the ability to 565 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,839 Speaker 2: strangle her in the hotel room. Do we know if 566 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 2: he was I hate to ask this, but I'm going 567 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 2: to because I know that he took pictures of her naked. Yes, 568 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 2: And I am going to assume that she was dead 569 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 2: when he took the pictures. Is that true? Yes, he 570 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 2: took pictures of her to remember remember what he had done, 571 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 2: so that he could go back and relive the moment. 572 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 2: Is like and think, But are you able to determine 573 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,320 Speaker 2: if he had if he had sex with her after 574 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 2: she was dead? Was he watching porn to reinvigorate himself 575 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,400 Speaker 2: to attack her while she was dead. 576 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,320 Speaker 1: Quite possibly, and I don't you know in the court record, 577 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: there's there's not a lot of data contained in their 578 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 1: relative to to the sexual assault or if it was 579 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: post mortem or anti mortem. But it still goes to 580 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 1: this thread that runs through the entire thing, that this 581 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: is a purely sexually motivated crime that winds up in 582 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: her death. And you know, here here's one other thing. 583 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: He he she had drank so much alcohol, you know 584 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,240 Speaker 1: when they were out, you know, when they were getting 585 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,760 Speaker 1: no one another and they're talking all the sort of things. 586 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 1: Her her her legal the legal limit was. She had 587 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: blown through that already. So you know, you're really wondering, 588 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,479 Speaker 1: you know, if they're in the bar, or is he saying, well, 589 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 1: why don't we do some shots? You know, maybe maybe 590 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: he's got her doing shots so that he's going to 591 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: get her more pliable to whatever it is that he 592 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: wants to do this. This person had planned this thing out. 593 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:27,240 Speaker 1: It's not highly highly planned, but there is a plan 594 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: here to do what he's going to do. And again, 595 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,919 Speaker 1: while he is on this high and she's deceased, he's 596 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: still trying to achieve to achieve the satisfaction through either 597 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: you know, documenting what he had done. He's going to 598 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: go back and fantasize over this. It really gives you 599 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: pause to wonder if if there were others, because you know, 600 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: you've got people that engage in this behavior. They take 601 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: photographs of this horrible activity that they're engaged in, and 602 00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: one of the things they love to do, DAVI, is 603 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,520 Speaker 1: to go back in review. And we've talked about all 604 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: the serial killers that are out there, you know, over 605 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 1: the years that have taken trophies, and they do take 606 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: pictures as well. Uh, there's any number of these people 607 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: that take pictures of their victims in a deceased state 608 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,319 Speaker 1: and they go back and they relive this for them. 609 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: Was he essentially apprehended on the front end of maybe 610 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:28,800 Speaker 1: a career as a as you know, as a serial 611 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: perpetrator or is this something that he had been engaged 612 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 1: in before. I do know this though this person is 613 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: now off the streets. He is serving a mandatory life sentence. 614 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,719 Speaker 1: But the one thing I do know is that this 615 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 1: young lady's life, who she was living it to the fullest, 616 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:58,920 Speaker 1: traveling about the world, was snuffed out by total and 617 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 1: complete stranger. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is bodybacks MHM.