WEBVTT - Cross-Country in a FSD Tesla, Cheap Used EVs 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:10.039 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Matt Miller and 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:12.360 I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Hot Pursuit. 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:20.440 All right. 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.799 We have a really cool episode today because one of 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:27.200 my favorite guests that we've ever had was Alex Roy, 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.760 Cannonball run record holder at one point. I don't think 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.520 he holds it now, but in a normal Cannonball run, 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.640 which is like the Burt Reynolds, you know, starting in 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:39.720 New York, ending in La driving as fast as you 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.120 can and avoiding the cops. But now he's done something different. 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.400 Yeah, and this is actually a new record, which is 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:51.080 the FSD drive Coast to Coast, which he did in 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:54.760 forty five hours thirty six minutes. That's including five hours 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:55.800 worth of charge time. 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:58.360 And it's extra special because you and I were with 0:00:58.440 --> 0:00:59.600 him the night that he left. 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:02.680 Yeah, and he swore us to secrecy, but he was 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:07.200 all pumped up with his lovely co driver who is 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:10.959 going incognito mostly. Yes, Yeah, that was very cool. I 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:15.120 mean I just can't imagine going out the night before 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:18.160 the morning, you know you're going to set off and 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:20.280 just drive for days. 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:24.160 Yeah. And by the way, I so I've met Alex before, 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:28.280 but only briefly, and but I've been following him forever. 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:32.080 He's also like both he and Carrie when I met 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:34.840 them at the Classic Car Club. You know when you 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.280 meet someone and you feel like you have been best 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:41.520 friends forever. I instantly had that, and. 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:43.680 You know, the New Yorker and me, of course, when 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.720 I meet people like that, I'm just like, well, we'll see, 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.560 we'll see. Like I can feel it that I really 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.680 like them and they feel very copaesthetic and simpatico. But 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:55.680 I'm always just like, we'll see. But no, there's no 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.280 other there's no there's no other shoe dropping. It's it's authentic, 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:03.200 it's genuine. It's very nice. And I've known Alex for 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:05.640 a long time and he's one of those people that 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:09.480 you don't try to stay in contact with, you just 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:11.920 are in contact with, and then you look back and 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.200 you're like, oh, yeah, i've known him for I don't know, 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:15.600 ten twelve years. 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.040 Well I'm looking forward to that. I'm from Ohio, so 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:22.239 there's no skepticism in me, and like when I met Carrie, 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:24.440 we both have lived in Berlin for a long time. 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.600 We're both fairly new parents, and oh, I didn't know 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.960 that yeah, we have like so many things in common 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:33.959 that I was like, wow, we we should go have dinner. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.480 So it was great, and I'm really glad we were 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:40.160 a part of their trip, their journey. Let's get into 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.239 our interview with Alex Roy. I'm so glad you could 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:43.760 join us. 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:47.560 We need to celebrate. This is a celebration. Really. 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:48.600 Yeah. 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.639 The last time we saw you, Alex, you were this 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:55.760 was it was the night before the morning of oh 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.680 oh yeah, and we were sworn to secrecy about what 0:02:58.720 --> 0:02:59.960 you were about to undertake. 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.919 So I am a firm believer that one should keep 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:08.839 these things a secret until for a long time after 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:10.920 one does it, or at least a little bit of time, 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:13.960 because there's always someone out there who feels super competitive 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:15.320 who might want. 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:16.480 To sabotage the drive. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:19.320 This is less of an issue with you know, electric 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:23.320 and autonomous drives because they're slower. But you know, there 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.480 was a time when people who did cannonball drives would 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:29.440 call it the police and call in other cars and 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:31.040 it got pretty hairy. 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:31.920 Yeah it was dirty. 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.200 That's not the case anymore, but still, you know, you 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:36.280 never know what's gonna happen. 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:39.440 Wait, so, first of all, I knew about this, But 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.640 I host a daily television show, and so every day 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.800 when there was something, you know, there's often news about Tesla. 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.280 For example, it was hard for me to keep my 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:52.480 mouth shut until you finally released the results on your 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.800 LinkedIn page, and then I talked about like every day 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:57.760 for a week. So I kept steering people towards your 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:02.160 LinkedIn page summarize for us exactly what you did. 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:07.760 Okay, so you know, the cannonball run is of historical 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:10.280 legacy American car culture. 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:12.800 People drive cross country as fast as possible. Uh, but 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:13.920 it's always been done. 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:15.119 As fast as possible. 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:18.880 And we know with the you know advent of you know, 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.680 driver assistance systems and now you know, autonomous vehicles, it 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:24.880 becomes a lot more interesting to try stuff that hasn't 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.000 been done before. Notably, how fast can you get a 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:32.160 vehicle cross country that is send me autonomous or autonomous? 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.280 And so Elon Mullusk said, I think it was eight 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.160 or nine years ago that it would be possible to 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:40.480 summon your vehicle, your Tesla cross country. It would just 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:44.400 come to you, and no one had tried it before 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.800 to the best of my knowledge, under cannonball conditions meaning 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:51.279 NonStop except for charging your gas, and so I'm like, 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:56.200 why not do that? And so in late December, on 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:58.080 a date I shall not yet, well everybody knows it 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:02.160 was late summer, I went country with my co driver, 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:07.080 Sea Fox, whose identity is still not public, but we 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:07.560 have met her. 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:10.599 I mean, there are pictures of her on your site. 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.760 Yes she uh, let's just say. 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:20.280 Her name is Sea Fox as you put it on 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:21.640 your LinkedIn page. 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:24.599 Well you know, but look, hey, look her name is 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:26.599 Carrie Schuler and she's worked for Porsche. 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.120 She's great. She's been in fashion, she was a stylist, but. 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:33.919 Most importantly Tesla owner and like I think eight or 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.160 ten years living in Germany, high speed driving experience. 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:38.240 She's been to racist school. She's one of a kind. 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.160 So we went across and tried to come up with 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.719 a rule set that poorted kind of canniball history to 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.560 autonomous driving. And you know, the rules are no stopping 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:53.479 except to charge. And since the metrics aren't top speed, 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:58.200 the metrics are how close to one hundred autonomous driving 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.440 can we get? That's that's the goal, and that's the bar. 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.360 Whatever we do is the bar. And then in the future, 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:08.040 as future software iterations come from Tesla or a competitor 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:10.560 comes out with a vehicle that is capable of doing 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:14.800 something similar. People now have a way of measuring the 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:19.480 both the quality and the capability of an autonomous driving system, 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:25.120 and so I kind of humorously called this the Cannibal Run, 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:29.600 the nerve burg Ring of autonomy, because it's a bench bar. 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.760 And you know, everybody, Hannah, you've driven the Neurveburgering, haven't you? 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:34.400 I haven't. No, I haven't. 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:35.320 You've never driven it. 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:40.000 I have driven it, And did you find that challenging? 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:44.400 I found it very challenging. It was literally twenty five 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:49.039 years ago, but it was awesome, right. I didn't drive 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:51.120 it terrified. I didn't drive it as fast as I 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:52.880 could because I was scared that I would crash. 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:55.360 You know, we're in the same boat. 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:57.520 I went for the first time last year, and I 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:00.840 was suddenly I got it. Like the peak people car 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.200 makers take their cars there as fast as they can 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:05.040 because they know most people will. 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:06.320 Never drive that fast there. 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:10.440 But that the potential, like the potentiality and like of 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:12.960 what your car could do if you wanted to is 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:15.840 the lives in the minds of everyone who buys a 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.640 sports car and so what if we took the Nurber 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.280 Ring and did it for autonomy and that's the cannonball run. 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:26.720 So we got cross country in forty five hours and 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:27.600 thirty six minutes. 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:29.800 Was it New York to Phoenix or New York to 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:30.720 La or what did you? 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:32.160 New York to La? 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:34.400 Which is the classic cannonball where in La? 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:38.640 And well we have specifics for the Angelinos. 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:43.160 So the finish line is the portafinu in And which 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.720 is set just south of LA. And the start line 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:48.400 is the Red Ball Garage in midtown Manhattan. And so 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:51.280 actually forty five thirty six is pretty good, would be 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:54.080 pretty good even for like one hundred percent human driven time. 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.320 It's a little less than six hours at charge time. 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.280 So thirty nine forty four I have time, which is 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:03.960 actually a really good time. 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.680 What's your fastest what's your fastest time ever? Alex? 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.640 Uh, My fastest time is thirty one hours and four 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.760 minutes in Uh, you know BMW five, I mean the 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:17.120 current canniball record internal combustion. I think it's like twenty 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:19.280 five and change. 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:20.200 Who has that? 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.840 Oh my buddy Arnie Towman, he went across during the 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:29.160 COVID lockdowns. And I don't know if that'll ever be beaten, 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.120 but I have predicted years ago that someday an electric 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.719 vehicle would break the gas time because if you look 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.080 at the rate of improvement electric vehicle technology, it looks 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:41.800 like the lines will cross in the next I think 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:48.800 ten years, and then after that autonomous driving. Eventually, I'm 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:54.120 certain that a drive this vehicle could be electric will 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:58.120 break Arnie Toeman's time of twenty five hours and change. 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.360 I'm convinced of it because eventually, and this is where 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:04.000 this is all going, when the technology is capable of 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:10.640 driving safer than a human in most conditions, eventually you'll 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:12.720 be able to raise the speed limit of that vehicle 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:16.120 in the software, and then it will it'll break the 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:16.720 human record. 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:17.720 That's inevitable. 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.400 I don't want to get too drawn off on a tangent, 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:23.840 but are we already there that the technology is safer 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:28.160 than humans? Like, aren't there driverless taxis in San Francisco 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:32.560 and Phoenix and you know that just don't crash very much. 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:36.800 Well, I ride Weimo's every day. I live in Scottsdale, 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:42.839 and they're terrific. Waimo has released data indicating that they 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:44.920 are and this depends on how you measure it. That 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.720 they are safer than the average human driver where they operate, 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:51.640 But where they operate is the key phrase here, because 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:55.760 at highway speeds in bad weather things get more complicated. 0:09:55.760 --> 0:10:00.280 We've not yet seen any driverless vehicle operate in those conditions, 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.400 you know, for a lot of miles, and they're not 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:07.120 available to public yet anyway, they're being tested. So I'm 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:11.840 confident based on Weymo's progress that they will eventually do 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.760 highway speeds in all conditions, but they do not yet 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.800 offer commercial service that goes, you know, outside of an 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:23.319 urban area like Scottsdale, or like Phoenix, Metro and San Francisco. 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.319 Eventually they will, and so will everybody who wants to 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:28.600 be in this business. You have to because if you 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:31.520 want to if you want to sell I think a 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.079 car to someone in twenty five years, it's going to 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:38.080 have to have autonomous capabilities, drier less capabilities. It's not 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:40.880 gonna be restricted to fleets and people like to go 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:42.640 on vacation. 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:48.280 And you're making a distinction between autonomous vehicles and electric vehicles, 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.320 you know, because I think oftentimes those are just lumped 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:53.079 together as if you have one you have the other. 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:56.920 But it sounds like there's a specific separation in your 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.559 mind between the two. 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:05.079 So uh, there was a time when, you know, consultants 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.680 years ago said that the future of all cars was 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:11.000 case connected, autonomous, shared, and electric, and I said that, 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:14.360 I'm like, that's insane. Americans don't really like sharing. Many 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:17.880 of them don't want electric car connectivity. 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:20.439 Well, I think if you if you have red state, 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:21.960 people own guns. They don't want to be connected. 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.200 They want their privacy and elect Well, uh yeah, and 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:27.760 that's an autonomous Well, I think a lot of people 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:29.520 will want a choice. I like to say that I'm 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.800 pro choice in the war on driving, So I like 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:35.520 to have an autonomus vehicle that has a steering wheel. 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:39.800 Yeah, actually it is. That's on the Human Driving Associations here, 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:40.640 it's I sell those. 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:45.600 But you know, I think the distinction between electric and 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.480 eternal combustion is more of a political one because there 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.120 are countries like China where I think one hundred percent 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:53.439 of cars sold will be electric within a few years, 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.439 and Norway it's it's I don't know, do you know what, Hannah, 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:58.400 do you know it's close. 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:01.600 I mean, it's toughs biggest Marketer, it was forever. 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.280 Yeah, yeah, and so but you know, with the recent 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.040 election in the US, I think we're going to see 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.600 gas and hybrids have a new lease on life. 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:10.040 So uh. 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.640 But there is a weird thing about internal combustion cars 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:19.720 and autonomy because autonomous UH driving software is generally very smooth. 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:26.760 The best systems are quite smooth. Sometimes the vehicles I 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.600 don't want to name names vehicles, gas vehicles or hybrid 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.920 vehicles that have suboptimal transmission. 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:36.840 I don't think anyone listens to this, So you can 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:38.120 name names if you wanted. 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:41.959 To stay all right, So back in the day, this 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:45.240 is seven eight years ago. I tested a Mercedes E Class, 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.880 which is a great car, but when you used its 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:52.840 drive pilot drive pilot system, which was like their first 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:57.120 generation UH drivers and software, the band in which it 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:01.520 operated interacted with the trans mission shift points in such 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.640 a way that it was really uncomfortable to use it. 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:06.280 And I was like, wow, I wish this car had 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.800 been electric, because then you have the linear power of 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.240 electric drivetrain and the linear performance of the of the 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.520 driver assistance. And so I mean, I think it's inevitable 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.440 all vehicles will be electric, But how long that takes 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:21.200 as a political issue. 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.240 I just want to tell you that chat gpt tells 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:28.120 me in Norway, ninety six point four percent of all 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:33.120 new cars registered last year we're fully electric, battery electric vehicles, 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:36.320 and they cite electrive dot com as their source. 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:39.200 So thank you. That's a good fi. 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.079 Yeah, I'm obsessed with chat gpt. By the way, what's 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:47.120 the difference between autonomous and semi autonomous and fully autonomous? 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:52.440 Like I'm in a FD I'm I'm in a GMC 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:56.800 Yukon Denali Ultimate right now and it's got supercrews which 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.560 is really cool, but it obviously doesn't take me, you know, 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:01.640 on and off the highway from my house to the 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:02.839 grocery store kind of thing. 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:09.319 Well, uh, this is a this is a semantic problem 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.760 because for a long time, self driving meant you, well, 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:14.439 if you go to India, a self driving car is 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:16.720 a tax to the human driver because you don't have 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.280 to do the driving. And so for many years, self 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:25.280 driving was a vehicle that was driverless. But then when 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.320 companies started releasing driver assistance and called it self driving, 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:30.760 it kind of muddy the waters. And Tesla came out 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.720 with full self driving, which but that's it still requires 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:39.200 a supervisor. And so then you know, WEIMA went from 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.320 marketing they had a website called Let's Talk self Driving, 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.240 they switched to Let's Talk Autonomous Driving because they felt 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:47.200 like self driving stolen. 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:51.840 Yeah yeah, yeah. 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:54.160 It sucks and so and then autonomous got kind of 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:58.680 stolen by companies marketing self driver assistance, and so it 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:04.080 became a total hot. So today, I would argue that 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.360 if it's capable of driverless operation, you have to just 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.720 call it driverless, because otherwise it gets thrown in the 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:15.040 in the soup with driver assistance systems. So I would 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:19.040 say in a perfect world, autonomous would being driverless. It 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.600 doesn't always mean that, so I always use semi as 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:25.320 the prefix to distinguish that there's someone in a seat 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.920 and to classify this specifically what we did Carrie and 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:35.000 I I call it the production autonomy record, because the 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.680 Tesla is the only car you can buy which is 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:42.760 potentially capable of fully autonomous driverless operation. 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:44.400 It isn't yet, but it. 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:46.320 I'd convinced that it will be. 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:48.960 And this is and I used to work at a 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:51.040 competing company at our GOAI, but I'm. 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:55.600 Convinced that they can't. And the only other record that 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:56.440 I'm aware that. 0:15:56.480 --> 0:16:02.200 Exists in this category would be is a wild card. 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.920 A guy named Jay Roberts, bravest man I know, has 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.200 a Prius and he put a device called the Comma AI. 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:11.120 Have you heard of Comma. 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.119 No, but I see it was one of your witnesses 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:15.240 on your on your run. 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:20.440 So George Hatts, who's a very famous hacker, h first 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.400 person a hack a PlayStation on an iPhone Tesla try 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.840 to hire him and said no, he he has a 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:29.320 device called the Comma AI unit. It's it's you pull 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.600 out your rearview mirror. You stick this thing, which is 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:34.360 a cell phone that with a connector that sticks where 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:37.080 the mirror went, and it connects to the CANbus of 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.840 your car with a single cable and it will convert. 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.520 It will basically enable not every car, but many cars 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.840 two capabilities similar to Tesla autopilot, so you can now 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.640 have send me autonomous features. The common unit was reviewed 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.440 by Consumer Reports years ago, and I think they said 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:56.480 it was the best on the market, or vert or 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:01.960 second better than anything else except I think autopilot. And so, uh, 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.679 Jay Roberts took put this in his Prius and went 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:07.480 across country a few months ago and set a record. 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:11.280 I call that the what I think it's the aftermarket 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:12.359 autonomy record. 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:15.000 Now I know this is a deeply uncool question. I 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:17.480 just have to ask really quickly, but is that a 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.280 legal device or is it? Kind of like radar detectors 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:23.200 that you know really aren't legal, but we can all 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:24.640 get them. 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:28.919 So a comma in it's completely illegal, you can. I 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.240 think what makes it legal is you buy it and 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.119 then but it doesn't come with the software on it 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:34.520 and you have to download the software. 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:35.760 Let's go work around. 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:38.440 There was a funny story years ago where Hots I think, 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:39.920 went to a party with a head. 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:41.520 Of Nitza Mark Rosekind. 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.360 They were both in the room together at rose Kind 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:48.400 It's like, what's this guy's here? So you should in fact, 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:50.520 if you want to talk to rose Kind, I know him. 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.440 I'll get him on your show. I called rose Kind 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.920 while we were in the car doing this to tell 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:58.439 him and he's like, this is the crazy thing you've 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:00.600 ever heard anyway, you know. 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:01.920 But that's great. 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.840 So much safer is the thing, Alex Like, I think 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.320 a lot of people fear that these vehicles are going 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.320 to be hitting old women in crosswalks all the time. 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:14.520 But the fact is, the autonomous vehicles that are out 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.919 there right now are just killing far fewer people than 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.040 the human driven vehicles that are out there right now. 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.119 I would say, I wouldn't say all autonomous vehicles are safer, 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.240 but I would say that the cutting edge, like a 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:32.000 waimo is And I have been in some systems in 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:34.760 other countries that I was not convinced that they should 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.760 be on the road. And the thing about a system 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:41.119 like Tesla's is that it still requires a human supervisor. 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.600 So if that supervisor is a bad human driver, they're 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:48.080 going to be a bad supervisor and then they. 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:49.879 May not catch a mistake the vehicle makes. 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:54.520 And a lot of Tesla crashes are classified as human 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:59.440 responsible crashes, like the supervisor responsible, But there is a 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.480 that's a gray area because the relationship between the handoff 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.639 when the system's on and then it makes the person 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:08.720 takes over, it's not always so cut and dry. So 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:13.760 I'm a firm believer in WEIMO today and I'm optimistic 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:15.240 about Tesla in the future. 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.879 Can I ask if you've heard from Tesla about this endeavor? 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:23.879 Were they aware of it beforehand? Even have you have 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:27.359 they reached out after and you know has Elon made contact? 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:32.119 So this time all right? 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.840 So this this time out, I have not heard from 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:39.800 Tesla officially directly. In ten years ago and seven ten 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.280 years ago and eight years ago when I went across 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:46.240 country UH in a Model S and set the speed 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:51.720 the full on canniball electric canniball record, Tesla, did I receive. 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:55.280 Emails from people inside Tesla said this is great UH, and. 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:00.880 A lot of the Tesla influencer community, we're super positive 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.360 about what we just did. The answer is no, they 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:06.520 did not reach out, but I know they're watching and 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.800 they are friendly and supportive. Like when I get my 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.439 Tesla serviced incredibly, I have a great experience, and I 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.359 know that's not the common experience, and so I suspect 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:19.200 good that they've been flagged. 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:20.200 They've been flag. 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:22.720 I never asked for anything, and I never know. I 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.119 don't make demands, but they've been good to me. I 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:26.520 hope that is true for more people. 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:36.440 So you started the Red Ball garage here in New York, 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.040 and do you start out with your hands on the 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:42.760 wheels and your feet on the pedals or how often 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.000 did you actually have to touch the wheel and what 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:46.720 situations did you have to take over? 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:51.159 So there are Tesla influencers who make videos where they 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:52.320 sit with their hands like you know, like. 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:54.240 This, or like on their legs. 0:20:55.000 --> 0:21:00.760 I follow the best practices that Waimo and the other 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.840 big players have adopted after years of testing eight self 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:09.960 driving testing such cars, so hands hovering right behind the 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:13.719 wheel nine to nine percent of the time because if 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:16.919 something should go wrong, you might have less than a 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.200 second to react, and if your hands are in your lap, 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:20.639 you're not gonna be able to react. 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.440