1
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:10,039
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Matt Miller and

2
00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:12,360
Speaker 1: I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Hot Pursuit.

3
00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:20,440
Speaker 2: All right.

4
00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,799
Speaker 3: We have a really cool episode today because one of

5
00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,200
Speaker 3: my favorite guests that we've ever had was Alex Roy,

6
00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,760
Speaker 3: Cannonball run record holder at one point. I don't think

7
00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,520
Speaker 3: he holds it now, but in a normal Cannonball run,

8
00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,640
Speaker 3: which is like the Burt Reynolds, you know, starting in

9
00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,720
Speaker 3: New York, ending in La driving as fast as you

10
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,120
Speaker 3: can and avoiding the cops. But now he's done something different.

11
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is actually a new record, which is

12
00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:51,080
Speaker 1: the FSD drive Coast to Coast, which he did in

13
00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,760
Speaker 1: forty five hours thirty six minutes. That's including five hours

14
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:55,800
Speaker 1: worth of charge time.

15
00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,360
Speaker 3: And it's extra special because you and I were with

16
00:00:58,440 --> 00:00:59,600
Speaker 3: him the night that he left.

17
00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he swore us to secrecy, but he was

18
00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:07,200
Speaker 1: all pumped up with his lovely co driver who is

19
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,959
Speaker 1: going incognito mostly. Yes, Yeah, that was very cool. I

20
00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,120
Speaker 1: mean I just can't imagine going out the night before

21
00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,160
Speaker 1: the morning, you know you're going to set off and

22
00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,280
Speaker 1: just drive for days.

23
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. And by the way, I so I've met Alex before,

24
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,280
Speaker 3: but only briefly, and but I've been following him forever.

25
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,080
Speaker 3: He's also like both he and Carrie when I met

26
00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,840
Speaker 3: them at the Classic Car Club. You know when you

27
00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,280
Speaker 3: meet someone and you feel like you have been best

28
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,520
Speaker 3: friends forever. I instantly had that, and.

29
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,680
Speaker 1: You know, the New Yorker and me, of course, when

30
00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,720
Speaker 1: I meet people like that, I'm just like, well, we'll see,

31
00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,560
Speaker 1: we'll see. Like I can feel it that I really

32
00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,680
Speaker 1: like them and they feel very copaesthetic and simpatico. But

33
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,680
Speaker 1: I'm always just like, we'll see. But no, there's no

34
00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,280
Speaker 1: other there's no there's no other shoe dropping. It's it's authentic,

35
00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,200
Speaker 1: it's genuine. It's very nice. And I've known Alex for

36
00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,640
Speaker 1: a long time and he's one of those people that

37
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,480
Speaker 1: you don't try to stay in contact with, you just

38
00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:11,920
Speaker 1: are in contact with, and then you look back and

39
00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,200
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, i've known him for I don't know,

40
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:15,600
Speaker 1: ten twelve years.

41
00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,040
Speaker 3: Well I'm looking forward to that. I'm from Ohio, so

42
00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,239
Speaker 3: there's no skepticism in me, and like when I met Carrie,

43
00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,440
Speaker 3: we both have lived in Berlin for a long time.

44
00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,600
Speaker 3: We're both fairly new parents, and oh, I didn't know

45
00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,960
Speaker 3: that yeah, we have like so many things in common

46
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,959
Speaker 3: that I was like, wow, we we should go have dinner.

47
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,480
Speaker 3: So it was great, and I'm really glad we were

48
00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,160
Speaker 3: a part of their trip, their journey. Let's get into

49
00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,239
Speaker 3: our interview with Alex Roy. I'm so glad you could

50
00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:43,760
Speaker 3: join us.

51
00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,560
Speaker 1: We need to celebrate. This is a celebration. Really.

52
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

53
00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,639
Speaker 1: The last time we saw you, Alex, you were this

54
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,760
Speaker 1: was it was the night before the morning of oh

55
00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,680
Speaker 1: oh yeah, and we were sworn to secrecy about what

56
00:02:58,720 --> 00:02:59,960
Speaker 1: you were about to undertake.

57
00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,919
Speaker 4: So I am a firm believer that one should keep

58
00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,839
Speaker 4: these things a secret until for a long time after

59
00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:10,920
Speaker 4: one does it, or at least a little bit of time,

60
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,960
Speaker 4: because there's always someone out there who feels super competitive

61
00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:15,320
Speaker 4: who might want.

62
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:16,480
Speaker 2: To sabotage the drive.

63
00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:19,320
Speaker 4: This is less of an issue with you know, electric

64
00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,320
Speaker 4: and autonomous drives because they're slower. But you know, there

65
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,480
Speaker 4: was a time when people who did cannonball drives would

66
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,440
Speaker 4: call it the police and call in other cars and

67
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:31,040
Speaker 4: it got pretty hairy.

68
00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:31,920
Speaker 2: Yeah it was dirty.

69
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,200
Speaker 4: That's not the case anymore, but still, you know, you

70
00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:36,280
Speaker 4: never know what's gonna happen.

71
00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,440
Speaker 3: Wait, so, first of all, I knew about this, But

72
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,640
Speaker 3: I host a daily television show, and so every day

73
00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,800
Speaker 3: when there was something, you know, there's often news about Tesla.

74
00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,280
Speaker 3: For example, it was hard for me to keep my

75
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,480
Speaker 3: mouth shut until you finally released the results on your

76
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,800
Speaker 3: LinkedIn page, and then I talked about like every day

77
00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,760
Speaker 3: for a week. So I kept steering people towards your

78
00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:02,160
Speaker 3: LinkedIn page summarize for us exactly what you did.

79
00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:07,760
Speaker 4: Okay, so you know, the cannonball run is of historical

80
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,280
Speaker 4: legacy American car culture.

81
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,800
Speaker 2: People drive cross country as fast as possible. Uh, but

82
00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:13,920
Speaker 2: it's always been done.

83
00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:15,119
Speaker 5: As fast as possible.

84
00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,880
Speaker 4: And we know with the you know advent of you know,

85
00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,680
Speaker 4: driver assistance systems and now you know, autonomous vehicles, it

86
00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:24,880
Speaker 4: becomes a lot more interesting to try stuff that hasn't

87
00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,000
Speaker 4: been done before. Notably, how fast can you get a

88
00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:32,160
Speaker 4: vehicle cross country that is send me autonomous or autonomous?

89
00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,280
Speaker 4: And so Elon Mullusk said, I think it was eight

90
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,160
Speaker 4: or nine years ago that it would be possible to

91
00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,480
Speaker 4: summon your vehicle, your Tesla cross country. It would just

92
00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,400
Speaker 4: come to you, and no one had tried it before

93
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,800
Speaker 4: to the best of my knowledge, under cannonball conditions meaning

94
00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,279
Speaker 4: NonStop except for charging your gas, and so I'm like,

95
00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:56,200
Speaker 4: why not do that? And so in late December, on

96
00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,080
Speaker 4: a date I shall not yet, well everybody knows it

97
00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,160
Speaker 4: was late summer, I went country with my co driver,

98
00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:07,080
Speaker 4: Sea Fox, whose identity is still not public, but we

99
00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:07,560
Speaker 4: have met her.

100
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,599
Speaker 3: I mean, there are pictures of her on your site.

101
00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,760
Speaker 2: Yes she uh, let's just say.

102
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,280
Speaker 3: Her name is Sea Fox as you put it on

103
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:21,640
Speaker 3: your LinkedIn page.

104
00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,599
Speaker 4: Well you know, but look, hey, look her name is

105
00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:26,599
Speaker 4: Carrie Schuler and she's worked for Porsche.

106
00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,120
Speaker 2: She's great. She's been in fashion, she was a stylist, but.

107
00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,919
Speaker 4: Most importantly Tesla owner and like I think eight or

108
00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,160
Speaker 4: ten years living in Germany, high speed driving experience.

109
00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,240
Speaker 2: She's been to racist school. She's one of a kind.

110
00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,160
Speaker 4: So we went across and tried to come up with

111
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,719
Speaker 4: a rule set that poorted kind of canniball history to

112
00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,560
Speaker 4: autonomous driving. And you know, the rules are no stopping

113
00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,479
Speaker 4: except to charge. And since the metrics aren't top speed,

114
00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:58,200
Speaker 4: the metrics are how close to one hundred autonomous driving

115
00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,440
Speaker 4: can we get? That's that's the goal, and that's the bar.

116
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,360
Speaker 4: Whatever we do is the bar. And then in the future,

117
00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,040
Speaker 4: as future software iterations come from Tesla or a competitor

118
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,560
Speaker 4: comes out with a vehicle that is capable of doing

119
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,800
Speaker 4: something similar. People now have a way of measuring the

120
00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,480
Speaker 4: both the quality and the capability of an autonomous driving system,

121
00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:25,120
Speaker 4: and so I kind of humorously called this the Cannibal Run,

122
00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:29,600
Speaker 4: the nerve burg Ring of autonomy, because it's a bench bar.

123
00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,760
Speaker 5: And you know, everybody, Hannah, you've driven the Neurveburgering, haven't you?

124
00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:34,400
Speaker 1: I haven't. No, I haven't.

125
00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:35,320
Speaker 2: You've never driven it.

126
00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,000
Speaker 5: I have driven it, And did you find that challenging?

127
00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,400
Speaker 3: I found it very challenging. It was literally twenty five

128
00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:49,039
Speaker 3: years ago, but it was awesome, right. I didn't drive

129
00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,120
Speaker 3: it terrified. I didn't drive it as fast as I

130
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:52,880
Speaker 3: could because I was scared that I would crash.

131
00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,360
Speaker 2: You know, we're in the same boat.

132
00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,520
Speaker 4: I went for the first time last year, and I

133
00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,840
Speaker 4: was suddenly I got it. Like the peak people car

134
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,200
Speaker 4: makers take their cars there as fast as they can

135
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,040
Speaker 4: because they know most people will.

136
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:06,320
Speaker 2: Never drive that fast there.

137
00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,440
Speaker 4: But that the potential, like the potentiality and like of

138
00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,960
Speaker 4: what your car could do if you wanted to is

139
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,840
Speaker 4: the lives in the minds of everyone who buys a

140
00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,640
Speaker 4: sports car and so what if we took the Nurber

141
00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,280
Speaker 4: Ring and did it for autonomy and that's the cannonball run.

142
00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:26,720
Speaker 4: So we got cross country in forty five hours and

143
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:27,600
Speaker 4: thirty six minutes.

144
00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,800
Speaker 3: Was it New York to Phoenix or New York to

145
00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:30,720
Speaker 3: La or what did you?

146
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:32,160
Speaker 2: New York to La?

147
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,400
Speaker 5: Which is the classic cannonball where in La?

148
00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,640
Speaker 1: And well we have specifics for the Angelinos.

149
00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,160
Speaker 4: So the finish line is the portafinu in And which

150
00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,720
Speaker 4: is set just south of LA. And the start line

151
00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,400
Speaker 4: is the Red Ball Garage in midtown Manhattan. And so

152
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,280
Speaker 4: actually forty five thirty six is pretty good, would be

153
00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,080
Speaker 4: pretty good even for like one hundred percent human driven time.

154
00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,320
Speaker 2: It's a little less than six hours at charge time.

155
00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,280
Speaker 4: So thirty nine forty four I have time, which is

156
00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,960
Speaker 4: actually a really good time.

157
00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,680
Speaker 3: What's your fastest what's your fastest time ever? Alex?

158
00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,640
Speaker 4: Uh, My fastest time is thirty one hours and four

159
00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,760
Speaker 4: minutes in Uh, you know BMW five, I mean the

160
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,120
Speaker 4: current canniball record internal combustion. I think it's like twenty

161
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,280
Speaker 4: five and change.

162
00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:20,200
Speaker 3: Who has that?

163
00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,840
Speaker 4: Oh my buddy Arnie Towman, he went across during the

164
00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:29,160
Speaker 4: COVID lockdowns. And I don't know if that'll ever be beaten,

165
00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,120
Speaker 4: but I have predicted years ago that someday an electric

166
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,719
Speaker 4: vehicle would break the gas time because if you look

167
00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,080
Speaker 4: at the rate of improvement electric vehicle technology, it looks

168
00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:41,800
Speaker 4: like the lines will cross in the next I think

169
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:48,800
Speaker 4: ten years, and then after that autonomous driving. Eventually, I'm

170
00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:54,120
Speaker 4: certain that a drive this vehicle could be electric will

171
00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,120
Speaker 4: break Arnie Toeman's time of twenty five hours and change.

172
00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,360
Speaker 4: I'm convinced of it because eventually, and this is where

173
00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,000
Speaker 4: this is all going, when the technology is capable of

174
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:10,640
Speaker 4: driving safer than a human in most conditions, eventually you'll

175
00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,720
Speaker 4: be able to raise the speed limit of that vehicle

176
00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,120
Speaker 4: in the software, and then it will it'll break the

177
00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:16,720
Speaker 4: human record.

178
00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:17,720
Speaker 5: That's inevitable.

179
00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,400
Speaker 3: I don't want to get too drawn off on a tangent,

180
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,840
Speaker 3: but are we already there that the technology is safer

181
00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:28,160
Speaker 3: than humans? Like, aren't there driverless taxis in San Francisco

182
00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,560
Speaker 3: and Phoenix and you know that just don't crash very much.

183
00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,800
Speaker 4: Well, I ride Weimo's every day. I live in Scottsdale,

184
00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:42,839
Speaker 4: and they're terrific. Waimo has released data indicating that they

185
00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:44,920
Speaker 4: are and this depends on how you measure it. That

186
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,720
Speaker 4: they are safer than the average human driver where they operate,

187
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,640
Speaker 4: But where they operate is the key phrase here, because

188
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,760
Speaker 4: at highway speeds in bad weather things get more complicated.

189
00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:00,280
Speaker 4: We've not yet seen any driverless vehicle operate in those conditions,

190
00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,400
Speaker 4: you know, for a lot of miles, and they're not

191
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,120
Speaker 4: available to public yet anyway, they're being tested. So I'm

192
00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,840
Speaker 4: confident based on Weymo's progress that they will eventually do

193
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,760
Speaker 4: highway speeds in all conditions, but they do not yet

194
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,800
Speaker 4: offer commercial service that goes, you know, outside of an

195
00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:23,319
Speaker 4: urban area like Scottsdale, or like Phoenix, Metro and San Francisco.

196
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,319
Speaker 4: Eventually they will, and so will everybody who wants to

197
00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,600
Speaker 4: be in this business. You have to because if you

198
00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,520
Speaker 4: want to if you want to sell I think a

199
00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,079
Speaker 4: car to someone in twenty five years, it's going to

200
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,080
Speaker 4: have to have autonomous capabilities, drier less capabilities. It's not

201
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,880
Speaker 4: gonna be restricted to fleets and people like to go

202
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:42,640
Speaker 4: on vacation.

203
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:48,280
Speaker 1: And you're making a distinction between autonomous vehicles and electric vehicles,

204
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,320
Speaker 1: you know, because I think oftentimes those are just lumped

205
00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,079
Speaker 1: together as if you have one you have the other.

206
00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,920
Speaker 1: But it sounds like there's a specific separation in your

207
00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,559
Speaker 1: mind between the two.

208
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:05,079
Speaker 4: So uh, there was a time when, you know, consultants

209
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,680
Speaker 4: years ago said that the future of all cars was

210
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,000
Speaker 4: case connected, autonomous, shared, and electric, and I said that,

211
00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,360
Speaker 4: I'm like, that's insane. Americans don't really like sharing. Many

212
00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,880
Speaker 4: of them don't want electric car connectivity.

213
00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,439
Speaker 2: Well, I think if you if you have red state,

214
00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:21,960
Speaker 2: people own guns. They don't want to be connected.

215
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,200
Speaker 4: They want their privacy and elect Well, uh yeah, and

216
00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,760
Speaker 4: that's an autonomous Well, I think a lot of people

217
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,520
Speaker 4: will want a choice. I like to say that I'm

218
00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,800
Speaker 4: pro choice in the war on driving, So I like

219
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,520
Speaker 4: to have an autonomus vehicle that has a steering wheel.

220
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually it is. That's on the Human Driving Associations here,

221
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:40,640
Speaker 2: it's I sell those.

222
00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,600
Speaker 4: But you know, I think the distinction between electric and

223
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,480
Speaker 4: eternal combustion is more of a political one because there

224
00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,120
Speaker 4: are countries like China where I think one hundred percent

225
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,439
Speaker 4: of cars sold will be electric within a few years,

226
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,439
Speaker 4: and Norway it's it's I don't know, do you know what, Hannah,

227
00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:58,400
Speaker 4: do you know it's close.

228
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it's toughs biggest Marketer, it was forever.

229
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and so but you know, with the recent

230
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,040
Speaker 4: election in the US, I think we're going to see

231
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,600
Speaker 4: gas and hybrids have a new lease on life.

232
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,040
Speaker 2: So uh.

233
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,640
Speaker 4: But there is a weird thing about internal combustion cars

234
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:19,720
Speaker 4: and autonomy because autonomous UH driving software is generally very smooth.

235
00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:26,760
Speaker 4: The best systems are quite smooth. Sometimes the vehicles I

236
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,600
Speaker 4: don't want to name names vehicles, gas vehicles or hybrid

237
00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,920
Speaker 4: vehicles that have suboptimal transmission.

238
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,840
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone listens to this, So you can

239
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:38,120
Speaker 1: name names if you wanted.

240
00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,959
Speaker 4: To stay all right, So back in the day, this

241
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,240
Speaker 4: is seven eight years ago. I tested a Mercedes E Class,

242
00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,880
Speaker 4: which is a great car, but when you used its

243
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,840
Speaker 4: drive pilot drive pilot system, which was like their first

244
00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,120
Speaker 4: generation UH drivers and software, the band in which it

245
00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,520
Speaker 4: operated interacted with the trans mission shift points in such

246
00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,640
Speaker 4: a way that it was really uncomfortable to use it.

247
00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:06,280
Speaker 4: And I was like, wow, I wish this car had

248
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,800
Speaker 4: been electric, because then you have the linear power of

249
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,240
Speaker 4: electric drivetrain and the linear performance of the of the

250
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,520
Speaker 4: driver assistance. And so I mean, I think it's inevitable

251
00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,440
Speaker 4: all vehicles will be electric, But how long that takes

252
00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:21,200
Speaker 4: as a political issue.

253
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,240
Speaker 3: I just want to tell you that chat gpt tells

254
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:28,120
Speaker 3: me in Norway, ninety six point four percent of all

255
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:33,120
Speaker 3: new cars registered last year we're fully electric, battery electric vehicles,

256
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,320
Speaker 3: and they cite electrive dot com as their source.

257
00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,200
Speaker 1: So thank you. That's a good fi.

258
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm obsessed with chat gpt. By the way, what's

259
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:47,120
Speaker 3: the difference between autonomous and semi autonomous and fully autonomous?

260
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:52,440
Speaker 3: Like I'm in a FD I'm I'm in a GMC

261
00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,800
Speaker 3: Yukon Denali Ultimate right now and it's got supercrews which

262
00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,560
Speaker 3: is really cool, but it obviously doesn't take me, you know,

263
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,640
Speaker 3: on and off the highway from my house to the

264
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:02,839
Speaker 3: grocery store kind of thing.

265
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:09,319
Speaker 4: Well, uh, this is a this is a semantic problem

266
00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,760
Speaker 4: because for a long time, self driving meant you, well,

267
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,439
Speaker 4: if you go to India, a self driving car is

268
00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,720
Speaker 4: a tax to the human driver because you don't have

269
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 4: to do the driving. And so for many years, self

270
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:25,280
Speaker 4: driving was a vehicle that was driverless. But then when

271
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,320
Speaker 4: companies started releasing driver assistance and called it self driving,

272
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,760
Speaker 4: it kind of muddy the waters. And Tesla came out

273
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,720
Speaker 4: with full self driving, which but that's it still requires

274
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,200
Speaker 4: a supervisor. And so then you know, WEIMA went from

275
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,320
Speaker 4: marketing they had a website called Let's Talk self Driving,

276
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,240
Speaker 4: they switched to Let's Talk Autonomous Driving because they felt

277
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,200
Speaker 4: like self driving stolen.

278
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,840
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah.

279
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,160
Speaker 4: It sucks and so and then autonomous got kind of

280
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,680
Speaker 4: stolen by companies marketing self driver assistance, and so it

281
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:04,080
Speaker 4: became a total hot. So today, I would argue that

282
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,360
Speaker 4: if it's capable of driverless operation, you have to just

283
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,720
Speaker 4: call it driverless, because otherwise it gets thrown in the

284
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,040
Speaker 4: in the soup with driver assistance systems. So I would

285
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,040
Speaker 4: say in a perfect world, autonomous would being driverless. It

286
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,600
Speaker 4: doesn't always mean that, so I always use semi as

287
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,320
Speaker 4: the prefix to distinguish that there's someone in a seat

288
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,920
Speaker 4: and to classify this specifically what we did Carrie and

289
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:35,000
Speaker 4: I I call it the production autonomy record, because the

290
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,680
Speaker 4: Tesla is the only car you can buy which is

291
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,760
Speaker 4: potentially capable of fully autonomous driverless operation.

292
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:44,400
Speaker 2: It isn't yet, but it.

293
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:46,320
Speaker 5: I'd convinced that it will be.

294
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:48,960
Speaker 4: And this is and I used to work at a

295
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,040
Speaker 4: competing company at our GOAI, but I'm.

296
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:55,600
Speaker 2: Convinced that they can't. And the only other record that

297
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 2: I'm aware that.

298
00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:02,200
Speaker 4: Exists in this category would be is a wild card.

299
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,920
Speaker 4: A guy named Jay Roberts, bravest man I know, has

300
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,200
Speaker 4: a Prius and he put a device called the Comma AI.

301
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,120
Speaker 2: Have you heard of Comma.

302
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,119
Speaker 1: No, but I see it was one of your witnesses

303
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:15,240
Speaker 1: on your on your run.

304
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,440
Speaker 4: So George Hatts, who's a very famous hacker, h first

305
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,400
Speaker 4: person a hack a PlayStation on an iPhone Tesla try

306
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,840
Speaker 4: to hire him and said no, he he has a

307
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,320
Speaker 4: device called the Comma AI unit. It's it's you pull

308
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,600
Speaker 4: out your rearview mirror. You stick this thing, which is

309
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,360
Speaker 4: a cell phone that with a connector that sticks where

310
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 4: the mirror went, and it connects to the CANbus of

311
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,840
Speaker 4: your car with a single cable and it will convert.

312
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 4: It will basically enable not every car, but many cars

313
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,840
Speaker 4: two capabilities similar to Tesla autopilot, so you can now

314
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,640
Speaker 4: have send me autonomous features. The common unit was reviewed

315
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,440
Speaker 4: by Consumer Reports years ago, and I think they said

316
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,480
Speaker 4: it was the best on the market, or vert or

317
00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,960
Speaker 4: second better than anything else except I think autopilot. And so, uh,

318
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,679
Speaker 4: Jay Roberts took put this in his Prius and went

319
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,480
Speaker 4: across country a few months ago and set a record.

320
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,280
Speaker 4: I call that the what I think it's the aftermarket

321
00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:12,359
Speaker 4: autonomy record.

322
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,000
Speaker 1: Now I know this is a deeply uncool question. I

323
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,480
Speaker 1: just have to ask really quickly, but is that a

324
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,280
Speaker 1: legal device or is it? Kind of like radar detectors

325
00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,200
Speaker 1: that you know really aren't legal, but we can all

326
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:24,640
Speaker 1: get them.

327
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,919
Speaker 4: So a comma in it's completely illegal, you can. I

328
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,240
Speaker 4: think what makes it legal is you buy it and

329
00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,119
Speaker 4: then but it doesn't come with the software on it

330
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:34,520
Speaker 4: and you have to download the software.

331
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:35,760
Speaker 2: Let's go work around.

332
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,440
Speaker 4: There was a funny story years ago where Hots I think,

333
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:39,920
Speaker 4: went to a party with a head.

334
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:41,520
Speaker 2: Of Nitza Mark Rosekind.

335
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,360
Speaker 4: They were both in the room together at rose Kind

336
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,400
Speaker 4: It's like, what's this guy's here? So you should in fact,

337
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,520
Speaker 4: if you want to talk to rose Kind, I know him.

338
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,440
Speaker 4: I'll get him on your show. I called rose Kind

339
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,920
Speaker 4: while we were in the car doing this to tell

340
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:58,439
Speaker 4: him and he's like, this is the crazy thing you've

341
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,600
Speaker 4: ever heard anyway, you know.

342
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:01,920
Speaker 2: But that's great.

343
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,840
Speaker 3: So much safer is the thing, Alex Like, I think

344
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,320
Speaker 3: a lot of people fear that these vehicles are going

345
00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,320
Speaker 3: to be hitting old women in crosswalks all the time.

346
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,520
Speaker 3: But the fact is, the autonomous vehicles that are out

347
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,919
Speaker 3: there right now are just killing far fewer people than

348
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,040
Speaker 3: the human driven vehicles that are out there right now.

349
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,119
Speaker 4: I would say, I wouldn't say all autonomous vehicles are safer,

350
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,240
Speaker 4: but I would say that the cutting edge, like a

351
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 4: waimo is And I have been in some systems in

352
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,760
Speaker 4: other countries that I was not convinced that they should

353
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,760
Speaker 4: be on the road. And the thing about a system

354
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,119
Speaker 4: like Tesla's is that it still requires a human supervisor.

355
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 4: So if that supervisor is a bad human driver, they're

356
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,080
Speaker 4: going to be a bad supervisor and then they.

357
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,879
Speaker 5: May not catch a mistake the vehicle makes.

358
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,520
Speaker 4: And a lot of Tesla crashes are classified as human

359
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:59,440
Speaker 4: responsible crashes, like the supervisor responsible, But there is a

360
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,480
Speaker 4: that's a gray area because the relationship between the handoff

361
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,639
Speaker 4: when the system's on and then it makes the person

362
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 4: takes over, it's not always so cut and dry. So

363
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 4: I'm a firm believer in WEIMO today and I'm optimistic

364
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 4: about Tesla in the future.

365
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,879
Speaker 1: Can I ask if you've heard from Tesla about this endeavor?

366
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,879
Speaker 1: Were they aware of it beforehand? Even have you have

367
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,359
Speaker 1: they reached out after and you know has Elon made contact?

368
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,119
Speaker 2: So this time all right?

369
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,840
Speaker 4: So this this time out, I have not heard from

370
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,800
Speaker 4: Tesla officially directly. In ten years ago and seven ten

371
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 4: years ago and eight years ago when I went across

372
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:46,240
Speaker 4: country UH in a Model S and set the speed

373
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 4: the full on canniball electric canniball record, Tesla, did I receive.

374
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,280
Speaker 2: Emails from people inside Tesla said this is great UH, and.

375
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,880
Speaker 4: A lot of the Tesla influencer community, we're super positive

376
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,360
Speaker 4: about what we just did. The answer is no, they

377
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 4: did not reach out, but I know they're watching and

378
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 4: they are friendly and supportive. Like when I get my

379
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,439
Speaker 4: Tesla serviced incredibly, I have a great experience, and I

380
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,359
Speaker 4: know that's not the common experience, and so I suspect

381
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,200
Speaker 4: good that they've been flagged.

382
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:20,200
Speaker 1: They've been flag.

383
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 4: I never asked for anything, and I never know. I

384
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,119
Speaker 4: don't make demands, but they've been good to me. I

385
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 4: hope that is true for more people.

386
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,440
Speaker 3: So you started the Red Ball garage here in New York,

387
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 3: and do you start out with your hands on the

388
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 3: wheels and your feet on the pedals or how often

389
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,000
Speaker 3: did you actually have to touch the wheel and what

390
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 3: situations did you have to take over?

391
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,159
Speaker 4: So there are Tesla influencers who make videos where they

392
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 4: sit with their hands like you know, like.

393
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,240
Speaker 2: This, or like on their legs.

394
00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 4: I follow the best practices that Waimo and the other

395
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 4: big players have adopted after years of testing eight self

396
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 4: driving testing such cars, so hands hovering right behind the

397
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,719
Speaker 4: wheel nine to nine percent of the time because if

398
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,919
Speaker 4: something should go wrong, you might have less than a

399
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,200
Speaker 4: second to react, and if your hands are in your lap,

400
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 4: you're not gonna be able to react.

401
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 2: So when we first started, we.

402
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 4: Had to That was Tesla FSD software version twelve five

403
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 4: to sixty four late December, So at that point you

404
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 4: had to actually the car had to be You could

405
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 4: not engage FSD from a stop.

406
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 5: From in front of the garage where we were, so.

407
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,159
Speaker 4: We had to pull out in the street, engage it

408
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,439
Speaker 4: with a button, and then hands hovering near the wheel.

409
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 4: The total disengagements between New York and LA were thirty two,

410
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 4: but twenty one of those were what we call voluntary

411
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,360
Speaker 4: disengagements that we had to do in order to get

412
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,400
Speaker 4: the car into a charging stall to charge it. So

413
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,360
Speaker 4: that leaves eleven that were non charge and related. Of

414
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 4: those eleven, only two were the really bad kind, which

415
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,879
Speaker 4: is what you call an involuntary disengagement, and that is

416
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 4: when your driving, it's the car is driving, you're supervising.

417
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 5: And without any warning, it suddenly says take over.

418
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 4: Now it flashes red you know, alert's go off. That

419
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 4: happened twice for reasons that are unclear software fault, we

420
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 4: don't know. And then there were two that voluntary takeovers

421
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,919
Speaker 4: for the car making a navigation error, and on two

422
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,360
Speaker 4: occasions we had to reboot the system software while driving,

423
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,400
Speaker 4: once while driving, once while stop, which is something also suboptimal.

424
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 4: So the total the metrics that matter are engagement rate

425
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 4: and number of involuntary disengagements.

426
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 2: The total engagement rate was ninety eight point five.

427
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 4: Two percent, which is a very good number, and I

428
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,439
Speaker 4: think that you will see that creep up towards one

429
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 4: hundred in the next couple of years. And obviously for

430
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 4: that to occur, the engage the disengagement rate will have

431
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 4: to fall to zero, and I'm convinced it will.

432
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 3: But that means of the thirty six hours and change.

433
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 3: For most of that the car was driving itself, like

434
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 3: thirty five hours and forty five minutes or something.

435
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, actually it's but it's more than that that.

436
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 4: The drivetime was thirty nine forty four, So I'm I'm

437
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 4: I don't have the number off the top of my head.

438
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 4: It was, you know, it was doing the driving with

439
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 4: us supervising, you know, something like into thirty nine hours

440
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 4: and change, which is it's incredible, It is incredible.

441
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: I see in the metrics here that the average driving

442
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: speed was seventy one miles per hour, which is great.

443
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: If you had twenty one charge stops for a total

444
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 1: of five hours fifty two.

445
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 3: Minutes, that's nuts.

446
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's crazy. And then I see also you

447
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 1: say there's other errors one so what was that?

448
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 2: I remember which one that was? And I'm looking at.

449
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: Your what you posted on X the long article that

450
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 1: you wrote about Yeah, with all of the metrics.

451
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, so the if I remember that correctly, the vehicle

452
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 4: made all right. So I think there were three navigation errors,

453
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 4: but in two cases we took over. In one case

454
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 4: we let it play out. To be specific, the vehicle

455
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 4: when leaving a charging station doesn't always get back to

456
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 4: the highway in as directly, and so in one case, and.

457
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 2: That's the one outlier of the other error. I think

458
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 2: it made a.

459
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 4: Left instead of a right, which would have added you know,

460
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 4: ten or twelve minutes to the overall time, and I

461
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 4: think we let it just play out. I think we

462
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 4: just let it go to see what would happen. The

463
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 4: two system resets were the weird ones because most people

464
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 4: would not feel comfortable rebooting a car while in motion,

465
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 4: So we did it once. I've done it many times,

466
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 4: of course, you know, many years of Tesla ownership. We

467
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 4: did it once in motion, and the second time we

468
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 4: were at a charging stop, and we could see on

469
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 4: the navigation screen that it was not going to naviget out.

470
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: Correctly, and so we just rebooted to see what would happen.

471
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 4: I mean, these are It's funny because people really want

472
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 4: to focus on this particular thing, and yet anyone who's

473
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,479
Speaker 4: ever used computer knows that over time, all computers have issues.

474
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:38,479
Speaker 2: They have issues.

475
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 4: I'm surprised that we had so few, and then Tesla's

476
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 4: come this far, and I don't consider myself a Tesla

477
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 4: fanboy at all, and yet the improvement over ten years

478
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 4: in Tesla system software isn't credible. And when I get

479
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 4: into a lot of other OEM vehicles today that are electric.

480
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 4: Forget the driver assistance and their stuff, just electric cars,

481
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 4: software defined vehicles in the zeitgeist. I am shocked and

482
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 4: how terrible these systems aren't, how frequently they crash with

483
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 4: basic things. So not an apologist for Tesla optimistic that

484
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 4: they will get there, everyone will eventually.

485
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 3: My focus is on the small amount of charging time,

486
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 3: because not only did you drive all the way across

487
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 3: the country. You know, if I did that in a

488
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 3: gas vehicle, I would definitely spend ten hours at a

489
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 3: gas station just to chill. And also you're driving at

490
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 3: high speeds, so I imagine the battery would be drained more quickly.

491
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 3: So I think charging for less than six hours seems

492
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 3: like a very small amount of time.

493
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 4: It seems small for us as civilian, normal people with

494
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 4: kids and families and like civilians.

495
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 3: Not cannonball record holders.

496
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 4: Okay, fair, fair, in cannonball terms, six hours is a

497
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 4: glacial It's like the place era, you know, So when

498
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 4: I went across in thirty one hours back in the day,

499
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 4: our target time for refueling was thirty minutes the whole way,

500
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 4: and we got we did it in like thirty one.

501
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: No across like twenty eight hundred miles basically, yeah, just.

502
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 2: Over thirty minutes.

503
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 4: And there are people who've done it with less because

504
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 4: they carried more fuels.

505
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 2: We had like six charging stops, six gas stops.

506
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 4: Now, interesting thing about electric vehicles is that you have

507
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 4: to because charging.

508
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 2: Takes so much longer than your fueling.

509
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 4: You you start thinking like Lama team managers because it's like, Okay,

510
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 4: do you want to go with like do you want

511
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 4: to charge one hundred percent because that would mean like

512
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 4: fourteen stops, or are we going to go with a

513
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 4: twenty eight stop strategy which means charging at forty percent?

514
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 4: So you have to be looking at the battery chemistry

515
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 4: and the temperate exterior temperatures, battery temperatures start optimizing for

516
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 4: charge rates there, and every vehicle is a different charging

517
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 4: curve and the chargers themselves different different charge rates and reliability.

518
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 4: Imagine if we went to gas stations today and shell

519
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 4: a shell station pump it, you know, twice the speed

520
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 4: of an xon, which one would you go to? So

521
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 4: even though it's only like a minimums make a difference.

522
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 4: And so that's how that's how charges are. So, uh,

523
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 4: there has been the for many years, Tesla's dominated cannonball

524
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 4: records electric records because the supercharger network had ninety nine

525
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 4: percent up time and the fastest speeds. Electrify America showed up,

526
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 4: and you know, they offer higher charging speeds, but only

527
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 4: with a couple of cars like a Lucid or a Tychon,

528
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 4: a Portia Tychon and so.

529
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 2: But their reliability rate is somewhere like sixty.

530
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 5: Percent versus ninety nine per Tesla.

531
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 4: So this has been gained back and forth people like

532
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 4: myself and a friend named Kyle Connor. He's got a

533
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 4: out of spec his channel. He and I have been

534
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 4: We've had talks and turned out like, well, when will

535
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 4: someone that's not Tesla break the record? So he's tried,

536
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 4: We both tried, and he came close in a Tykon

537
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 4: once and in the Lucid once, and recently he broke

538
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 4: the ev canniball record in a second gen Tychon, and.

539
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: Solely because.

540
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 4: The charging curve of the new second gen Tychon battery

541
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 4: is faster. It's better than anyone else's. However, there is

542
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 4: a trade off, which is that the range of the

543
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 4: car is much shorter.

544
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 2: But if you get it just right, you could do it.

545
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 4: I think he did it in like thirty nine and change,

546
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 4: which is two and a half hours faster than the

547
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 4: Tesla record, which.

548
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: Has stood for a few years.

549
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 5: So the new race in electric vehicles.

550
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 4: Is going to be for how to maintain long range

551
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 4: out of the battery while getting those charging curves faster.

552
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 4: And the new tychon is and the new Lucids the

553
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 4: latest vert their opposite theories. Lucid is optimizing for maximizing

554
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 4: range and their charging curve.

555
00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 2: Is quite good.

556
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 4: The Tychon is much less range for a faster curve.

557
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 4: So I think we'll see these times fall once you

558
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 4: get those times from you know, six hours in my

559
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 4: last drive down to say three or two or say one,

560
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 4: that's when we're going to start looking OEMs can start

561
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 4: looking at how will they break the internal combustion record.

562
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about battery degradation here, and

563
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,959
Speaker 1: especially as it relates to resell resale values of Tesla's

564
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: and ty Koons and that sort of thing. Is that

565
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: a valid concern because I've been watching the secondary market

566
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: values of EV's just completely tank. What's your experience with that?

567
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 4: Uh, Well, for the average person, it's not an issue

568
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 4: because they're least singer three years financing.

569
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 5: Maybe a five to seven.

570
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 3: But we want to buy after someone's least, you know, yeah, of.

571
00:30:54,360 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 4: Course, well you know, uh, the first generation is out

572
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 4: of almost everybody. We're not not awesome ten year old

573
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 4: teslas today modeless as you can get them for like

574
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,479
Speaker 4: twenty five or thirty k. Their range was shorter out

575
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 4: of the gate, and it's even shorter now. But they're

576
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 4: pretty good values if you are happy getting into like

577
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 4: kind of the weird world of non warranty teslas. I

578
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 4: wouldn't buy, I mean, I wouldn't buy probably any old

579
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 4: EV except a Tesla. And the Gen one Tycons are

580
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 4: awesome cars, really well made. The software is a different issue,

581
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 4: but everything else about him is great. Matt Farrah just

582
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 4: bought a Gen one Tychon Grand Turismo, which is stunningly beautiful.

583
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 3: The wagon version. They're so hot.

584
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I mean, look, once someone else is taken

585
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 4: the hit, it's probably a good deal. But the real

586
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 4: question is when will battery chemistry technology improve such that

587
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 4: this is not an issue because gas cars that are

588
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 4: fifty years old can be restored to efficiency, so new

589
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 4: chemistries have to come and there's a few different approaches.

590
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 2: We've not yet seen them do what.

591
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 4: We want, and I think that depreciation is going to

592
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 4: be terrible for many years to come. I this isn't

593
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 4: But there's a separate reason, and that's why I don't

594
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 4: buy used dvs, which is some of them, Tesla, lucid

595
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 4: Rivian are software upgradeable, like they probably have a long,

596
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 4: a long, happy life with improvements to what they can do.

597
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 4: Tesla most of all, but the other but lucid Rivian

598
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 4: right right next to them.

599
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: Uh. And so, uh, you.

600
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 4: Want to have the latest hardware because the better hardware is.

601
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: Going to mean a longer, happy ownership cycle.

602
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 4: But if you buy an EV that's from like a

603
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 4: legacy OEM, that's like basically, uh, you're locked in. They're

604
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 4: never gonna the software is never really going to do

605
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 4: much more than it does out of the gate. I'm

606
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 4: not interested in that.

607
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 5: I mean, that's why I think you see so few

608
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 5: two or three.

609
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 2: Time owners of evs.

610
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 4: Unless it's lucid Rivy and Tesla, the owners are very loyal.

611
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 3: The other ones the portie you can't you can't change.

612
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 3: I always wonder about battery swaps too. I mean as

613
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 3: battery technology gets better and better, can you just pull

614
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 3: out an old techon battery and put in something that's

615
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 3: twice as one.

616
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 4: I don't know if if Porsche will do it, Tesla

617
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 4: will swap, well, you'll sell you a.

618
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 2: New battery back.

619
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 5: It's like it's fifteen twenty grand.

620
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: It could be more.

621
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 4: Battery swaps were discussed and Tesla said they were going

622
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 4: to do it, and then in the early days, in fact,

623
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 4: they said they were going to do it for instead

624
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 4: of charging, you would just swap batteries.

625
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: They decided not to continue with that. In China there.

626
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 5: Are I don't know who it is, at least one OEM.

627
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 2: That does battery swaps.

628
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 4: I think that's not a I don't think that's a

629
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 4: really viable long term solution because the infrastructure required.

630
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 3: It's it's no. I just mean though, if you look

631
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 3: at if you buy an old Camaro, you know that

632
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 3: has a little motor and you want to put in

633
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 3: a big V eight. People do that all the time,

634
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 3: right you can? So can you eventually do the same

635
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 3: thing with electric cars? Can you say I love the

636
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 3: look of the taekon Grand Trismo, but I don't really

637
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 3: love the software and the battery. So I'm gonna buy

638
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 3: this thing and put in the hot rod version.

639
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 4: Uh well, the battery and you know, and the motors

640
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 4: are two different things. You could I mean, someone could

641
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 4: swap the motor, I suppose, but the architecture of these cars,

642
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 4: the early.

643
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 2: Ones, is really not designed to for it changes.

644
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 4: I mean, other than battery for service purposes. I think

645
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 4: it's early days. Look, the future of hot riding, obviously

646
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 4: is kids in the future are not just gonna swap

647
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 4: right hardware.

648
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: They're gonna know some coding.

649
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 4: That's the future of hot riting. So what you see

650
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 4: for ECU like remapping and people chipping their cars and

651
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 4: writing new software a little bit today, that's gonna be

652
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 4: you know, in fifty years. Kids are gonna take They're

653
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 4: gonna look at this car.

654
00:34:58,400 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 2: They're good.

655
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 4: I think they're gonna look at like at early Lucid,

656
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 4: and they're gonna say, Okay, I don't care about destroying

657
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 4: my bradish and longevity. I want to dump four x

658
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 4: the power out of this thing into the motor right now.

659
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 4: And they're gonna hack it and they're gonna make that happen.

660
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 4: And at that point the depreciation will have been like

661
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 4: ninety seven percent I mean of the value of the car,

662
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 4: and they're not going to care.

663
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 2: That's the future. But people forget.

664
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 4: It's decades to get It will be decades before the

665
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 4: evav car market approaches the maturity of what we've had

666
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 4: for fifty years in eternal combustion.

667
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 3: So I'll get there, Alex. If you could have one

668
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 3: electric car, is there one that you think? Is there

669
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 3: one that you love? Is there is there an ee

670
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 3: that you think about when you go to sleep at night?

671
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: Like?

672
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 4: No, no, because the selection is so limited today. I mean,

673
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 4: I just took delivery of a brand new model S

674
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 4: which is not as comfortable as the lucid uh and

675
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 4: doesn't quite handle like a Tychon, but it does.

676
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 2: Everything else I want.

677
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,439
Speaker 4: Charging network and the driver's system software is the best

678
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 4: there is.

679
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,439
Speaker 1: Well, here's here's a more of a philosophical question. Why

680
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: don't you feel Why don't we feel an emotional pull

681
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 1: to any electric vehicles? Besides the obvious and oh I.

682
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 2: Do, okay, there is one.

683
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 4: The most unbelievable vehicle I ever drove was a Rimock one,

684
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 4: the first Oh wow Rimock supercar.

685
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, hyper call, did you drive that Incroach?

686
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 4: Yes, very cool and uh yeah, and that was and

687
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 4: I went down there with.

688
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: Jaff Musual went down there and was crush. I went

689
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 2: down there and I.

690
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 4: Drove that for like fifteen minutes alone.

691
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 2: Holding your hand. He wasn't with me. No.

692
00:36:55,120 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 4: And the thing about that car is that you there

693
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 4: wasn't the level of like sound deadening in the vehicle

694
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 4: as you'd find in a lot of luxury cars and

695
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 4: sports cars.

696
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 2: So you could hear all of the motors and drive trains.

697
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 5: You could hear so much of what was happening.

698
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 2: Underneath you.

699
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 4: Uh that I felt connected to the to the car

700
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 4: in a different way because in most almost any internal

701
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 4: combustion car, you only hear two things the engine and

702
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,919
Speaker 4: wind noise, whereas in an electric car you hear road

703
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 4: noise and that's often all you hear. And so the

704
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 4: level the noise levels in that car were so the

705
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 4: noise was so different from any other car. I felt

706
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,720
Speaker 4: like I was learning how to drive again.

707
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: Wow, And yeah, I was like a reburse really.

708
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really it was really cool. And I think

709
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 4: that there's there are I think like as yet unseen in.

710
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: Magical futures for drivers, especially.

711
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 4: With Mate Rimmak, being the guy behind both Rimock and

712
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 4: now Ceoti is a friend of yours hand I mean.

713
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say we're friends. I would love to be

714
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: friends with him. We're certainly friendly.

715
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 3: Wait what if he's listening and he thinks you're friends?

716
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: Bejected, I'm very honored. We're certainly friendly. I really enjoy

717
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: talking with him.

718
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 4: So I think the most interesting people are like a

719
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 4: handful of people in the world who both understand the

720
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 4: internal combustion era and have done engineering work in ev

721
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 4: because they understand, yes, the psychology of drivers, and you know,

722
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 4: the Tesla fans are really interesting people. The hardcore ones

723
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 4: are peculiar because they are so obsessed with Tesla. They

724
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 4: obsess over everything that zero six people and also the

725
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 4: driverless stuff.

726
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 2: So Tesla it's.

727
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,760
Speaker 4: Like the people project onto what they want. But Tesla's

728
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 4: are weird because they're meant. They're meant to be super fastive,

729
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 4: fun to drive, and yet so many people are like,

730
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 4: but they'll be soon, which you know, kind of what's

731
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 4: the word, uh that cross purpose half of their Yeah? Yeah,

732
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 4: So the it's the only brand on the planet which

733
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 4: allows people to virtue signal and vice signal at the

734
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 4: same time. And this is why Tusla has narrative command

735
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 4: of the EV and AV you know, enthusiasts, because anyone

736
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 4: can believe what they want because it satisfies both of

737
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 4: the needs they project onto the brand.

738
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 2: No one else does that.

739
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 4: Portia in some cases a little bit comes close with

740
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 4: some of the really cool like hybrid Turbot the top

741
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 4: of the line, Cayenne and Panamara come close.

742
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 3: All right, that was very cool, And I really do

743
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 3: recommend people go back and listen to our original podcast

744
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 3: with Alex Roy because he explained so eloquently the connection

745
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,240
Speaker 3: that we feel with with cars, especially with internal combustion engines.

746
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the thing I love about Alex is he

747
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: he is he speaks his mind, and he yes he's

748
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: driving in Tesla, but he says he's not a fan boy.

749
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:09,919
Speaker 1: He's he's critical. He's self aware of the benefits and

750
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: negatives of electric vehicles.

751
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 2: You know. He drives an.

752
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: Old Wooden Morgan, one of those three wheel things.

753
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 3: He the good one version with on the front, you know.

754
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: So I do feel like sometimes when you have people

755
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 1: driving electric vehicles, they only drive electric vehicles and they're very,

756
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: very invested in pushing evs for the rest of the

757
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: world all the time, and and that is good for them,

758
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: but it does make me question their independence of thought sometimes.

759
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: And Alex is very good about He dabbles in everything,

760
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: and you know, he says the positives and negatives.

761
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 3: Actually, the two of you have that kind of integrity

762
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 3: gene in common, like you cannot be bought. And I

763
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 3: think that's I think that's pretty rare though.

764
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: I mean, you see me get upset match.

765
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 3: Yes I have, and I'm by the way, I'm surrounded

766
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 3: by journalists all the time. But I think it's rare

767
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 3: that that someone has that much integrity, which I always

768
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 3: recognized in you, which is why I love working with you.

769
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 3: But Alex two and actually I notice a lot of

770
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 3: the full self driving freaks are like that. It was

771
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 3: great to get Alex's take.

772
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, the one thing I wanted to ask,

773
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: which I purposefully didn't, is what is he working on next?

774
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: Because you know, he's always cooking something.

775
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 3: And he won't tell, and he won't tell. I wanted

776
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 3: to ask, and I still may. I'll call him later.

777
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 3: I wonder how he set the speed, because you know,

778
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 3: when you're driving super fast and you've always got to

779
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 3: kind of regulate that speed in case, you know, a

780
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 3: semi in the right lane pulls over. Yes, but if

781
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 3: it's self driving, do you just tell the tesla like, hey,

782
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 3: figure it out, we want to go as fast as

783
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 3: we can.

784
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I guess

785
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: I assume that it a automatically. It had just speed automatically,

786
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: you know, like cruise control would.

787
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 3: Right, But you just said it as high as it

788
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 3: can possibly go, like the cus control Max.

789
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: See what you're saying.

790
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.

791
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: It's a good question.

792
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 3: Well, I guess it's all the more reason to have

793
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 3: him on again because he's gonna do this three times. Right,

794
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 3: that was the first run of three. All right, that's

795
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 3: all we have for you this week.

796
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for your letters. Email us at hot Pursuit

797
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,240
Speaker 1: at bloomberg dot net. I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott,

798
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: and this is Bloomberg