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Speaker 1: Of course. Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Suprema Su Su Suprema role called Suprema Suck Sun Supreme

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Speaker 2: role called Suprema Sun Sun Supremo role called Suprema Sun

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Speaker 2: Sucks Supremo role.

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Speaker 3: I may have moved, Yeah, you could say I roomed. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: when I'm back in the studio. Yeah, ain't no place

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Speaker 3: like home.

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Speaker 2: Suprema Su Supremo. Roll called Suprema Sun Sun Suprema roll call.

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Speaker 1: My name is Fante.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: My favorite movie is Belly. Yeah. I just learned that

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Speaker 1: the plural of cello is chilly.

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Speaker 2: Supreme Suprema roll call, Suprema So Supreme, roll called.

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Speaker 5: My name is Sugar, Yeah, I keep it mellow. Yeah

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Speaker 5: when Larry Gold, Yeah, playing this check though.

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Speaker 1: So Supremo, Roll Suprema.

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Speaker 6: My name is Boss pill Yeah, just here to say hello. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: and I'm feeling great. Yeah, mellow as a cello.

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Speaker 7: Supremo roll It's like yeah, and my boot Larry Gold, Yeah,

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Speaker 7: my favorite tough jew.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, that never gets old.

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Speaker 1: Supremo.

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Speaker 4: Roll call, Supremo, roll call. They say I play thee

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Speaker 4: I'm very nice Yellow, but I'm not. I'm the last

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Speaker 4: name Gold and I'm very bold.

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Speaker 1: Suprema son So supremo.

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Speaker 2: Roll call sup Prima son so supremo, suprema suprema.

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Speaker 1: See was that really was?

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Speaker 4: It was a bit intimidating, especially with all the everybody.

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Speaker 4: It flashed through my head, you know, I was, I mean,

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Speaker 4: I don't.

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Speaker 1: Know a lot with Larry Gold as he did the

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Speaker 1: word mold bold. Oh yeah, there you go, Old.

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Speaker 4: I was going to leave that go even though she

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Speaker 4: could have gone that way right.

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Speaker 3: My My favorite part of uh taping this podcast is

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Speaker 3: when guests of the show start expressing fear when I

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Speaker 3: tell them two minutes ahead of time they're about to start.

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Speaker 3: We never, of course, you know, we never tell the

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Speaker 3: guests that they're doing the freestyle.

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Speaker 4: Uh was looking at her phone.

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Speaker 1: Oh we know, yeah, you.

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Speaker 3: See this lets us know, like, you know, your enthusiasm

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Speaker 3: for doing the show, like you know, you're there.

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Speaker 1: We'll give you an eight.

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Speaker 4: It definitely is intimidating.

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Speaker 1: You got an eight. You're good man. You can eat.

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Speaker 4: Fuck. I didn't get that in school.

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Speaker 1: You got you got an eat.

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Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme.

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Speaker 3: Your host Quest Love, and we're here with Teams Supreme

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Speaker 3: find Tickeolo.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Sugar Steve and Boss Bill Hello, and.

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Speaker 3: Like, yeah, how you doing. Uh, we're man down now Bill,

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Speaker 3: And he didn't make it. I think that we might

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Speaker 3: have have affected uh two of our guests with the

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Speaker 3: love the Quest Love Supreme diet here. Yeah, so we fed,

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Speaker 3: we fed uh unpaid Bill. He had impossible cheese steaks.

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Speaker 1: He has some drink.

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Speaker 3: Uh, he had some David's chicken from Chinatown and this

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Speaker 3: is all in the same night and have more drink.

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Speaker 3: And now he's out of commission. So I think that

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Speaker 3: if I had a rough morning to yeah, yeah, we

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Speaker 3: went to.

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Speaker 1: Barley, went to Barkley Pro and I.

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Speaker 9: Had a ribby and the truffle mac and geese and

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Speaker 9: the mac and geese.

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Speaker 1: It came back to say what's up? Really? Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was I just yeah, oh, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 9: I meant I haven't I mean really really rich rich

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Speaker 9: dairy ship. Right, it was good, but but yeah, this

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Speaker 9: morning not it reminded me.

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Speaker 7: But do y'all hear that that's the dopeness of the

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Speaker 7: Philly because that's all Philly food. That's like Bill got

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Speaker 7: sucked up. He couldn't take it, got fucked up. He

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Speaker 7: couldn't take it because it was good as hell.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I went to McDonald's. Damn.

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Speaker 3: Actually that that speaks more about me, like I'm killing off.

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Speaker 1: Our sometimes were all your choices, ladies and gentlemen. Uh,

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Speaker 1: so let's say that.

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Speaker 3: Uh you remember that moment where you were in your

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Speaker 3: feelings when you first heard those strings on Love My

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Speaker 3: Things part.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that rush.

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Speaker 3: You felt like, whoa, the roots are growing up here

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Speaker 3: and I might be cutting onions.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Our next guest today, I'll say, has his both his

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Speaker 3: feet planet in the the history of Philadelphia and also

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Speaker 3: the future of Philadelphia as integral part of the foundation

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Speaker 3: of what we know as the Sound of Philadelphia. Of course,

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Speaker 3: if you're familiar with the any of the works from

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Speaker 3: the Sound of Philadelphia, be it Gambled and Huff creations,

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Speaker 3: or even things produced by Tom Moulton or Tom Bell, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Tom Bell, or any any of the Sound of Philadelphia luminaries,

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Speaker 3: dex of Winzel, whoever, Baker.

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Speaker 1: Harris, yes, Nick Fadden and white Fad and Whitehead. Just

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Speaker 1: they the the the.

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Speaker 3: Secret sauce, the special sauce of the Sound of Philadelphia,

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Speaker 3: I will say, are the less strings it gives a

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Speaker 3: touch of class, a step further than what I think

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Speaker 3: Barry Gordy thought he was doing with the Motown sound,

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Speaker 3: trying to make it palatable to America.

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Speaker 1: And our guest today was a part of that.

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Speaker 3: But not only that, we can also say that he

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Speaker 3: had his hand in the second resurgence of the sound

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Speaker 3: of Philadelphia as owner of the much fabled the studio here.

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Speaker 3: And what part of town are we Northern Liberties Okay,

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Speaker 3: we'll call it Northern Liberties.

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Speaker 4: Or North Chinatown Okay, which I prefer, but North Chinatown,

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Speaker 4: Northern Liberties, And at this very studio, I will say

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Speaker 4: that pretty much any and everybody.

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Speaker 3: This is where I first met the great Bruce with

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Speaker 3: Dean oh wow, when he was doing Jennifer Lopez.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But uh, this has been home to the roots for

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Speaker 3: at least ten albums.

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Speaker 1: It's it's it's a list not to mention. You've done

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Speaker 1: string arrangements for everyone justin Timberlake.

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Speaker 4: Just yeah, I've done good.

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Speaker 1: He's done good. He's done good for himself.

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Speaker 4: How you doing, man, Thank you? I'm fine.

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Speaker 1: I was I was.

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Speaker 3: Trying to figure out when did we first cross paths?

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Speaker 3: I remember my version of the story was, well, I

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Speaker 3: know that Fateen danceler, Uh.

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Speaker 1: Daddy Kendrick told me about the studio.

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Speaker 3: But at that time, you know, I was I was

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Speaker 3: married to the sound and set up that I had

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Speaker 3: at Sigma both of our old homes, and then an

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Speaker 3: incident happened.

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Speaker 4: That's what I remember. An incident happened, and James Poyser

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Speaker 4: called me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so an incident happened without putting out the business

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Speaker 3: of one of the.

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Speaker 1: Former members of the Roots.

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Speaker 4: No, I don't want you know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we've we've we've made no bones about our

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Speaker 3: feelings about Malix situation.

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Speaker 1: Uh much left to Malik be.

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Speaker 3: But an incident happened at the studio that kind of

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Speaker 3: got us all kicked out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it got us all kicked out. Well here's the

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Speaker 1: thing though.

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Speaker 4: Sort of overnight too as well.

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Speaker 3: It was instantly and for me, uh, I kind of

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Speaker 3: played the the sentimental card. You remember in in uh

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Speaker 3: Chris Tucker's Money Talks when he was sort of like

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Speaker 3: what my mom staatement, Come on, pitty pat right, what

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Speaker 3: would my mom say?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 3: It was that situation where me and Joe tarci At,

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Speaker 3: the owner of Sigma, get the I want them back.

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Speaker 1: Here, and I was just like, come on, man, you

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Speaker 1: know my daddy.

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Speaker 3: And my plea was like, at least I didn't want

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Speaker 3: an inconsistent sound like I recorded the album right, maybe

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Speaker 3: seventy of the music in sigma, and I wanted a

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Speaker 3: consistence down throughout. So he he was like, all right, well,

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Speaker 3: I'll let you guys track the music here, but you

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Speaker 3: know Malik can never come back here, so uh so,

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Speaker 3: thus all the vocals were then done here in this

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Speaker 3: very room that we're in. Wow, So I'll say that

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Speaker 3: adrenaline all aside to almost an adrenaline.

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Speaker 1: You got me? What's that? So? Why don't do everything?

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Speaker 3: And then eventually, once we started working on Phrenology, we

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Speaker 3: just moved here.

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Speaker 1: Stay here. You know, he made this offer we couldn't refuse.

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Speaker 3: I think the first song I cut here was that

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Speaker 3: it was the impronounceable, the plump yeah good.

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Speaker 1: One number, the one that fans are still waiting for

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Speaker 1: you to give them the lyrics to. I gotta find it.

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Speaker 1: It's somewhere in this building. Whatever it was. I was

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Speaker 1: cussing out the Angelo, so I'll give you that much.

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Speaker 8: This was this.

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Speaker 1: It was four days after he stood us up or

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Speaker 1: break you off? I remember that night. Yeah, yeah, I think.

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Speaker 3: One of the lines I remember is meanwhile your hero

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Speaker 3: is running scared some some something.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no it was it was a distract for you. Anyway, Larry,

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Speaker 1: how you doing, bro?

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Speaker 8: I'm sorry?

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Speaker 1: Anyway, how's it going Mary?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's going on. Yeah yeah. Yeah. Are you

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Speaker 1: a Philadelphia native, did you?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? I grew up a few blocks from here in

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Speaker 4: North Philly. Really yeah. My dad had a toy store, little,

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Speaker 4: you know, toy and hardware store, and we grew up upstairs.

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Speaker 1: Really we're part of well, you know our h or.

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Speaker 4: You o R thirty the thirty the twenty nine hundred

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Speaker 4: block of Frankfurt Avenue, which is the Heroin district right

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Speaker 4: now in Philadelphia. It's really hardcore. Really yeah.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I as.

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Speaker 4: A let's put it this way, I had many cellos

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Speaker 4: cracked open on the way home from the elevated really,

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Speaker 4: oh yeah, I had. I had to run home sometimes

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Speaker 4: carrying your carrying the cello.

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Speaker 3: So it's always been I guess we should note that

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Speaker 3: I had to find out through a New York Times

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Speaker 3: story that I guess you could say the Kensington section or.

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Speaker 4: It is it's the Kensington section, even though the there's

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Speaker 4: a whole group of twenty year olds now moving further

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Speaker 4: north than where you guys were when you were.

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Speaker 1: Well, Fisttown is becoming gentrified.

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Speaker 4: My goodness.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they try to sell me a trip there for

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Speaker 3: a lot of money. No, Fisttown is gentrified, which like

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Speaker 3: thirty years ago, Fishtown was.

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Speaker 1: Sort of like benson Hurst.

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Speaker 8: Oh yeah, that's the only place in the world I've

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Speaker 8: ever been called a nigger.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, like thirty years ago it was.

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Speaker 4: And I'm not surprised. Well yeah, yeah, I mean now like.

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Speaker 3: Some of the world US restaurants and you know, Stephen's

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Speaker 3: like it's it's upscale. However, further north northeast, northeast of

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Speaker 3: there and Kensington, Philly's like getting hit with its third

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Speaker 3: wave of you know, we we had a little or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we had a thing like in two thousand and six.

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Speaker 4: I think we have the worst problem right now that

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Speaker 4: major city. We are really well. I think we hit

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Speaker 4: a low point in town here right now. You know,

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Speaker 4: the school system sucks, you know, I mean, and you know,

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Speaker 4: the property and taxes are so high that you can't

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Speaker 4: really raise them anymore without people suffering, you know. I

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Speaker 4: mean it's, you know, time to deal with the cities again,

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Speaker 4: you know, to take a good look at everything.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: Hey, people aren't getting an even break it, you know,

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Speaker 4: and that's that's the thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like we have to come back now. Well,

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Speaker 3: I mean that was kind of the solution before. It

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Speaker 3: was like nothing's happened in this town. Hey, let's make

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Speaker 3: something happen. And well, you did, you know you did.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if that's.

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Speaker 4: Going to say that that's my little You represented Philly

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Speaker 4: music for the a period of time. I remember early

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Speaker 4: in the nineties when you guys were first starting, one

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Speaker 4: of the big executives said to me, have you heard

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Speaker 4: the Roots? And I said the Roots? He said they're

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Speaker 4: from Philly and I felt like an ignorant SunUp fool,

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Speaker 4: you know, I had not heard of them. And then

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Speaker 4: I remembered you played Columbia's Oak freshman party and my

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Speaker 4: daughter went to see you when she was a freshman there,

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Speaker 4: and she called me on the phone and said, they're extraordinary. Wow, Dad,

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Speaker 4: you got to go introduce them, introduce you know. And

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Speaker 4: so you guys were representing Philadelphia long before Neo Soul.

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Speaker 1: Wow, thank you. I appreciate that.

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Speaker 3: So where does your musical introduction start, Like, how did

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Speaker 3: you were your plans?

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Speaker 1: Were your plans to be like Curtis Institute?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, classical cellist? Early early on, I got I got

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Speaker 4: caught by the fever of popular music though, really as

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Speaker 4: a kid.

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Speaker 1: So how did you ease out of that? And did

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Speaker 1: you disappoint people when you?

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Speaker 3: He told Okay, explain well, first of all, he explained,

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Speaker 3: a lot of people hold Juilliard in the highlight of like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: well that's the that's the pinnacle of music education, for

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Speaker 3: classical music.

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Speaker 1: But can you explain how.

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Speaker 3: Hard and I think Curtis has a harder, way, harder curriculum.

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Speaker 4: It's it's it's not particularly a curriculum. It's just Curtis

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Speaker 4: has always been about. When I was there, there were

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Speaker 4: seventy five kids. Now there's about one hundred and fifty Julliard.

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Speaker 4: There's thousands that take lessons. Right, it's a different it's

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Speaker 4: a different kind of entity, you know. I mean, Curtis

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Speaker 4: might be up to two hundred by now, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: They build a new building and they got a lot

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Speaker 4: of money, and it was a very it was a

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Speaker 4: very private school, yeah, curtis Is. It's in Philadelphia.

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Speaker 3: Way harder to get in the Curtis than for me,

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Speaker 3: at least, like I saw the audition, I failed them.

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Speaker 9: This is a performing arts school, yeah, servatory, yeah, conservatory,

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Speaker 9: but performing arts, mostly instrumental arts.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's now operatic and a lot of other things.

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Speaker 4: And I think they're teaching improvisation starting next year. They

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Speaker 4: brought somebody in and I think they're going to. Like

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Speaker 4: everyone else in this world, things have changed since the sixties.

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Speaker 4: In the sixties, you were put in a box. If

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Speaker 4: you got out of that box, nobody knew what to

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Speaker 4: do with you, you know. I mean it was like

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Speaker 4: it was a weird time, you know. When I wanted

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Speaker 4: to be in popular music and classical music, that wasn't

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Speaker 4: even really possible in the early sixties.

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Speaker 1: What year did you attend Curtis.

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Speaker 4: I was fifteen, so that would have been in nineteen

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Speaker 4: sixty three.

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Speaker 1: So by this point are you seeing your other I.

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Speaker 4: Was already making a little bit of a living. I

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Speaker 4: met some of the in those days. The Union in

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Speaker 4: Philadelphia was run by you know, South Philly musicians, and

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Speaker 4: that's the nicest way I could say, you know, you

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Speaker 4: know back.

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Speaker 1: You mean some friends of our Yes, yeah.

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Speaker 4: Some you know back all right, back in the early sixties.

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Speaker 4: I made a when I first started playing on records,

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Speaker 4: I made a brilliant discovery. There was a white union

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Speaker 4: and a Black union.

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Speaker 1: I did not know that.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm telling you that. And mister Gamba, I it

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Speaker 4: was here yesterday, Kenny was here. Yes, he would have

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Speaker 4: told you that, which I found amazing. And I don't

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Speaker 4: know much about it, but I know that by the

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Speaker 4: time the mid sixties rolled around, they formed one union. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 4: so I would say, I think sixty six or something

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Speaker 4: like that, there was one union.

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Speaker 3: Technically, I'm a union guy, yeah, I know, but I'd

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Speaker 3: never go to the meetings and no, I know, like

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Speaker 3: what who does the union benefit?

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Speaker 1: Well, because they always ask me in the old days.

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Speaker 4: In the old days, it was a real sort of

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Speaker 4: like mob kind of a thing because they would go

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Speaker 4: into a restaurant and if you had live musicians, they

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Speaker 4: would make sure they were union players. So I mean

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Speaker 4: collect yeah, exactly. If you go back to the twenties

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Speaker 4: and the thirties and the forties, yeah, it was a

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Speaker 4: way to collect dues, a way to have easy jobs,

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Speaker 4: you know, I mean then a way to make sure

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Speaker 4: your musicians union people were represented in these clubs or

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Speaker 4: these places. I always thought, I think the union is

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Speaker 4: a good thing because I think people take advantage of

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Speaker 4: other people without them at times. Absolutely okay, But I

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Speaker 4: also think that the union gets too like.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I felt okay, so and doing that we

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Speaker 3: both know that. So in doing the Hamilton recording, this

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Speaker 3: is when I knew, like, oh god, man, these union

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Speaker 3: people get on the nerves, like they literally have a

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Speaker 3: person over your shoulder micromanaging with the stop watch. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and it's like they're always reminding you like T minus

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Speaker 3: three hours and nineteen minutes folks, and it's like, yo,

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Speaker 3: can we get rid.

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Speaker 1: Of this person?

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Speaker 3: But then don't get down to like they'll say T

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Speaker 3: minus nine minutes before first twenty minute break and they

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Speaker 3: have to make this loud declaration no matter what you're doing,

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Speaker 3: it blows the vibe. But like their job is there

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Speaker 3: to protect. But then I found out once you speak

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Speaker 3: to maybe a label president or whatever, and you slide

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Speaker 3: some squills or whatever, then maybe they could just sit

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Speaker 3: in the in the break room or whatever. Like this

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Speaker 3: happens with like the cast albums I've worked on. So

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Speaker 3: I just I realized that, Okay, maybe to protect you

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Speaker 3: so that you know, I don't underpay you or that

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Speaker 3: sort of thing. You join the union, then of course

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Speaker 3: I have to pay you union scale or double scale

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Speaker 3: or triple scale or whatever your price is.

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Speaker 1: So I see that benefit. But and it goes into

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Speaker 1: your healthy shurance.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. And also supposedly, you know here we are talking

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Speaker 4: about this is bullshit, but I mean supposedly, like I'm

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Speaker 4: on a.

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Speaker 1: Pension from pension.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but they're fucking around with the pension man, you know.

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Speaker 4: I mean, so I don't know what to say about

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Speaker 4: all these people.

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Speaker 7: But from a non union perspective, union just looks like heaven.

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Speaker 7: I'm just gonna tell you, Like all my life, i mean,

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Speaker 7: even in black radio has never been unionized.

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Speaker 8: Like it's a whole thing.

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Speaker 7: So it's like I've always looked at y'all like, Wow, protections, doubility.

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Speaker 4: Well, some of it, some of it's good, you know.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I see, do.

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Speaker 3: You remember the first professional gig that you did in

365
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Speaker 3: a studio?

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Speaker 4: I don't I knew you were going to ask me this,

367
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Speaker 4: and I really it was you know, it was like

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Speaker 4: came on Parkway. It was probably in nineteen sixty three

369
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Speaker 4: or before sixty two, and I started playing on records.

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Speaker 4: Whenever they used two cellos, there used to be I guess,

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Speaker 4: like maybe four violins, one viola, one cello. Then they

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Speaker 4: expanded they went six violins, two viola's, two cellos. So

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Speaker 4: as soon as they did that, the head guy took

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Speaker 4: a liking to me. He really liked He was a

375
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Speaker 4: really good jazz violin player. He grew up legit, but

376
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Speaker 4: he was more like Jovenudi. He had a real sort

377
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Speaker 4: of that sound. You know that most legit players have

378
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Speaker 4: a great sound, but it's more formal.

379
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Speaker 1: Okay.

380
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Speaker 4: His was much looser, and I liked him. He was

381
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Speaker 4: a great guy. His name was Dom Ronaldo. He's on

382
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 4: every record the Gamblingoff ever made Dom Ronaldo strings and Horns. Well,

383
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Speaker 4: Don Renaldo.

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Speaker 1: That was the name of the of.

385
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Speaker 4: The strings and horns. In other words, it was it

386
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Speaker 4: always said, none of our individual names, right, It was

387
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Speaker 4: Don Ronaldo's strings and horns. So he was an executive

388
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Speaker 4: at the Union. He got me into the Union. I

389
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Speaker 4: was probably fourteen or something. He was supposed to be sixteen, okay,

390
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Speaker 4: and he started, get me gigs.

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Speaker 3: Okay, this is something that I should know that I

392
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Speaker 3: don't know. Can you explain the difference between the violin,

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Speaker 3: the viola, and the cello and the bass.

394
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Speaker 4: Yes, the base, So those four string instruments. The bass

395
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Speaker 4: starts the first string. On the bass, the lowest ring

396
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Speaker 4: is like an E low E. On the piano, R low.

397
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Speaker 4: The lowest string on the cello is a C above

398
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Speaker 4: that see right, A C above that the next. On

399
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Speaker 4: the viola, the lowest string is an octave above that

400
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 4: cello C A C C right. Then on the violin,

401
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Speaker 4: the lowest string is the G above that C, which

402
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Speaker 4: is the G below middle middle C.

403
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Speaker 1: Okay, So, so.

404
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Speaker 4: It encompasses the whole bottom of the piano and the

405
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Speaker 4: whole top of the piano. The violin goes from that

406
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Speaker 4: G all almost to the end of the piano.

407
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Speaker 1: Okay.

408
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 4: A great violinist can go all the way to the end.

409
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Speaker 1: So violin has more range. Viola has half the range.

410
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 4: No, but viola can go very high too, but not

411
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Speaker 4: as high sounding as the violin. It would be an

412
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Speaker 4: octave under the violin even at its highest oh.

413
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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay.

414
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 4: So the violin gets up where the birdies go.

415
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Speaker 1: So the what we know as the sound of Philadelphia.

416
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 4: Was mostly six violins, two viola's, two cellos doubled, and

417
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Speaker 4: sometimes we performed it that kills me. We performed well.

418
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Speaker 4: Sometimes we performed it three times, and the best takes

419
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Speaker 4: were you know, I mean you didn't have you see,

420
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Speaker 4: you didn't have the luxury in those days of like

421
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 4: you had to know you had a good performance and

422
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 4: then you doubled it onto two your moot. In the

423
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 4: early days with sixteen track or eight track, you had

424
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Speaker 4: to already bounce it to move it, oh, double it.

425
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 4: So you had to have a good track to begin with,

426
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Speaker 4: and then you were going taking that old track and

427
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Speaker 4: the new track, the old track out of phase and

428
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Speaker 4: the new track, moving them together, Yeah, moving them together.

429
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Speaker 4: Is there a risk that oh, you know what, it

430
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Speaker 4: would be naturally out of phase because it was two

431
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 4: different performances too, you know, no two performances are exactly

432
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Speaker 4: the same, so there wouldn't be like.

433
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 3: But is there a risk of say, maybe the bass

434
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Speaker 3: is now out of tune and his a is slightly

435
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Speaker 3: off and now that's there's.

436
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 4: Always that risk and a lot of times if you

437
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 4: go listen to the strings their attitude, you know, But

438
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 4: yet so are the vocals. A lot of that stuff,

439
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 4: so a lot, a little bit attitude, you know that,

440
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 4: But it all works together and in the song. But

441
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 4: a lot of times you're listening solos, so you're if

442
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 4: it's attitude, you do it again here. So so you

443
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 4: might end up doing your double a couple of more

444
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 4: times than you would. But people compromised much easier back

445
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 4: in those days. They were just looking for a feel

446
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 4: on those records. It was more short, they were elegant,

447
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 4: and and there were certain producers that wanted it pristine.

448
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 4: You take someone like Burt Backrak who came into the

449
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 4: city a few times, you know, and everything had to

450
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 4: be precise and exactly, you know what I mean. But

451
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 4: there were an awful lot of people that that was

452
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,959
Speaker 4: not the case. They were like unmade beds, you know.

453
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 4: They would as soon as they got the feel of

454
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 4: the record right, that was it. They didn't care what

455
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 4: was in duner.

456
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: Attitude right, as long as it felt right.

457
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 4: As long as it felt right.

458
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 3: So you're trying to tell me, I'm trying to think

459
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 3: of okay, So like Stairway to Heaven.

460
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 4: That's already twenty four track or sixteen twenty four track.

461
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: But even you're like, yeah, oja, yeah, I had nothing

462
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: to do with le Zeppelin. For those listening.

463
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 3: A song like Stairway to Heaven that I when I

464
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 3: hear it, I'm just imagining it's fifty of you in

465
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 3: a room doing me strings and it's really just twelve fourteen.

466
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 4: Well it's it's ten doubled.

467
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: Damn.

468
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 4: Yeah. So the first see Phil Ramone couldn't get over that.

469
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 4: That's what it was too.

470
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 1: I can't you know what I had.

471
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 4: I always had my problems with Joe Tarzia, but I

472
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 4: have to say he was a fucking good engineer.

473
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: Really.

474
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 4: Yeah. You know, I always thought they were a little

475
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 4: bit too aggressive for me, and maybe, you know, maybe

476
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 4: other people felt that way, you know, just as people

477
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 4: in a way when I live, aggressive like don't move

478
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 4: the microphones, no, no, no, no, just aggressive.

479
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: His people Oh okay, you know what I mean.

480
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,239
Speaker 4: They didn't fit into my hippie self, you know, they

481
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 4: they rubbed me the wrong way a little bit, okay,

482
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 4: But he was a great fucking engineer. They made great

483
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 4: records here. He taught a lot of my friends how

484
00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 4: to make magnificent records. You know Donald Murray who did

485
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 4: all those Spinners records, and you know some of the

486
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 4: young people eventually did some of the records we all

487
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 4: know as the Philly Sound. Joe did a lot of

488
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 4: what Joe sat next to Gamble megan his records, you know,

489
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 4: so those stairways, that was Joe Tarzis and he he

490
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 4: had a slate floor at three oh nine that he

491
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 4: put the strings on this slate floor, so he was

492
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 4: getting a lot of bounce out of the sound of

493
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 4: the strings.

494
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 3: So strings would be cut on three or nine Broad

495
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 3: Street at a lot of times.

496
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, because they realized that first of all, it was

497
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 4: right next door to where Kenny and Leon lived mostly,

498
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 4: which their offices were right and where they wrote the songs.

499
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 4: So and here they built a really nice studio that

500
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 4: you know, was for the seventies, was sort of state

501
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 4: of the art. It had shagcarp you know a lot

502
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 4: of the studios in the seventies were like that. And

503
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 4: it had a slate floor and hardwood, and it had

504
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 4: a lot it had a real life off the floor.

505
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 4: But then when it hit the walls, it was pretty dead.

506
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 4: Like they had the drums right they cut a lot

507
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 4: of the drum tracks over there.

508
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 3: See, in my mind, I thought they were cutting upstairs

509
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 3: in the Ciga room, not a lot.

510
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 4: Not not By the time they built three on nine. Okay,

511
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 4: Now I wish Kenny was here, but I think I

512
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 4: think in nineteen seventy three he opened three on nine

513
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 4: South broad which was already a recording studio. When it

514
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 4: opened up, there was a record first of all. That

515
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 4: was where cameo Parkway had an enormous studio three times

516
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 4: the size of this room. Wow, that was when the

517
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 4: early days, when I first went in to make a record,

518
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 4: there were thirty two or thirty four musicians and singers

519
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 4: in the room at the same time. The strings were

520
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 4: in one corner, the horns were in another corner. The

521
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 4: rhythm was all in the center, cracking all at once.

522
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: How do you when you record that way? This is

523
00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: before we.

524
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 4: Used to do that sometimes MFSB too, But that was

525
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 4: in a much smaller room.

526
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 3: This was a big room, and that's because you can't

527
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 3: overdub in that. Later, but how many times would you

528
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 3: have to go over a song so that the engineer

529
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 3: makes sure I mean, so the engineer.

530
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: Can ensure that they have a perfect performance. I think.

531
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 4: I think when I was there, it seemed like the

532
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 4: engineers were very efficient getting getting a sound out of

533
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 4: all of these musicians at one time. You know, it

534
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 4: might have taken an hour to get the sound, and

535
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 4: then they might have recorded a couple of songs.

536
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,719
Speaker 3: You might have to run the song four or five times,

537
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 3: just again six times.

538
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 4: But you know, I mean they were miking most of

539
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 4: the amps. The guitar was you know, there were I

540
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 4: don't think direct boxes. I even think Joe Tarjie invented

541
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 4: a direct box that was used all over the world

542
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 4: after that, you know, early sixties, late sixties.

543
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: Like we gotta get Joe that so he should be here. Now.

544
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Steve, I interrupted you. Oh no, I was

545
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: just wondering.

546
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 5: So, like, let's say the first set of horns and strings,

547
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 5: just the two tracks.

548
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 4: Well it all went down to two track, like an

549
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 4: ampects two track okay, as or as Scully, This is

550
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 4: like the best of my recollection. Besides playing and everything.

551
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 4: I was already an audio freak. My father had bought

552
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 4: me the first web core portable tape recorder that I

553
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 4: was turning over. I was already fascinated by popular music

554
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 4: all through this whole time. I wasn't going to give

555
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 4: up at Curtis because getting in the Curtis was my

556
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 4: main goal, you know. So, but I was fascinated by

557
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 4: popular music and I was watching these guys, and yeah,

558
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 4: they head it down to a science man. They really did.

559
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 4: They were fast efficient.

560
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 5: But it's not like they were making each instrument like

561
00:29:58,560 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 5: we do.

562
00:29:59,000 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: What they did.

563
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 4: Like with the strings, there was one mic for three violins,

564
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 4: another mic for three violins. The cellos had separate mics

565
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 4: and the viola had one mic. So that's that's the

566
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 4: way they Those were micd and then and when it

567
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 4: went to horns, you had all ribbon mics on the horns. Yeah,

568
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 4: each orn out of mic. When they played a chord,

569
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,719
Speaker 4: the engineer had to get a balance on the on

570
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 4: the cord. Yeah, and the strings too, and they had

571
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 4: to run it down enough times where the engineer felt comfortable.

572
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 4: But they were also you know, they're also singing live.

573
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 4: They might not sing at that time. We did the

574
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 4: tracking in those early days, because what they did was

575
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 4: then they went to another machine to put the vocals on.

576
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 4: They took the instrumental and went to the second machine

577
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 4: and laid down the lead vocal on the background vocals

578
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 4: so they could put them way out front. And if

579
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 4: you listen to some of those old records, the vocals

580
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 4: are like this compared to the music. I mean, they're

581
00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 4: way out front.

582
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 3: How would they add the I guess the Okay, there's

583
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 3: there's the string section, but then there's also what you

584
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 3: call the chamber or like the the uzophones and the

585
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 3: trumpets and the.

586
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 4: They were all there live too. If you were going

587
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 4: down the two track there there was the only overdubs

588
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 4: I think they did early on were vocals to another machine, so.

589
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: The strings and all the horns of each at the

590
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: same time.

591
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 4: And that's why they had big studios in those days.

592
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 4: They baffled things off.

593
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, the bleeding must have been horrible

594
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: for any.

595
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 4: But they got an overall sound. In other words, if

596
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 4: you listen to some of those records, they made them

597
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 4: bigger a mirror because everyone was in the same room.

598
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 4: Because the strings had some horns in them, the horns

599
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 4: had some strings in them, they could talk, you know

600
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 4: what I'm saying. Everybody had a lot of every all

601
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 4: the other elements sort of. I mean, you tried to

602
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 4: do the best you could isolate things, but it was

603
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 4: impossible to isolate things.

604
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:00,479
Speaker 1: That's what ire.

605
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 5: That's like the ultimate restriction. It's just like you have

606
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 5: to record everything at the same exact time.

607
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's too much pressure.

608
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 4: It was pressure.

609
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 3: Well, I'm just used to I mean, I've made complete

610
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 3: records that sound like you know, it's ensembles gelling together

611
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 3: and you know, but when you do and I'm just

612
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 3: playing drums by myself for like ten minutes, imagining what's

613
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 3: going to sound like later and that sort of thing,

614
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 3: but I can't even imagine that.

615
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 4: But like when you did the Hamilton record, that's everybody

616
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 4: altogether too, wasn't it? Or did you do that in part?

617
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 3: No, that that all the rhythm tracks were done together,

618
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 3: and then yes they all right, they they did.

619
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: But then in the middle of.

620
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 3: It, I guess we realized that this is going to

621
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 3: be thriller. Like there was a point where it's just like, Okay,

622
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 3: Hamilton is whatever, right, just record top to bottom that

623
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 3: sort of thing.

624
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 4: But then, which is the way Broadway cast albums are usually.

625
00:32:54,960 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, but then there was one point where it was like, Okay,

626
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 3: they might have to spend more money.

627
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: And that's the thing.

628
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 3: Like Atlantic Records realized early that this could change the game,

629
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 3: and so they were like, Okay, we're willing to invest

630
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 3: more money in this and mix each individual song and

631
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 3: that you know, any other Broadway record, like in fourteen

632
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:23,479
Speaker 3: album hours, like you spend five hours tracking, three hours

633
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 3: over dubbing, and then you know it's just one big

634
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 3: giant mix and then that's it. But yeah, we spent

635
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 3: three to four months mixing and really sweetening up that

636
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 3: record that it still sounds like the sound of Philadelphia,

637
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 3: even though different people are at the Helm. So there

638
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 3: are songs that Norman Harris produced that had nothing to

639
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 3: do with Gamble and Huff that still used the same

640
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 3: players that still use the same studios and you can't

641
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 3: tell a difference.

642
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 4: But they were part of the original Gamble on Huff

643
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 4: sound to begin with. Though you picked the name Norman

644
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 4: Harris was definitely part of that original rhythm section. You

645
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 4: go back and name a song an early Gamble on

646
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 4: Huff song, and it was either it was either Rolling Chambers.

647
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 4: He was in a group with the Chambers. One of

648
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 4: them played drums and the other one played guitar. I

649
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 4: think Dennis was his name. I mean, I'm really digging deep,

650
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 4: you know, and make a long story short. I think

651
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 4: Norman Harris played on a lot of those records, so

652
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 4: he was part of that sound. And he was also

653
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 4: Norman Harris was like a genius R and B dude.

654
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 3: But how many I'm trying to figure out teams because

655
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 3: this is another thing that you see on credits. You'll

656
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 3: see string arranger, rhythm arranger, right, background vocal arranger, which

657
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 3: I feel like these are like little titles handed out

658
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 3: from the producer. Said that no one has this so

659
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 3: that the producer can protect their turf.

660
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 4: And in a way that's true.

661
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 3: So all right, so when you're dealing with okay, so

662
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 3: someone brings, uh, you used to be my girl the

663
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 3: ojs uh the I'm assuming that the rhythm track is

664
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,919
Speaker 3: done first, I am.

665
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 4: I don't exactly know for sure. Well if I'm miss

666
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 4: if I'm not mistaken, that song was done with the

667
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 4: old rhythm section. Okay, so it was Norman and Ronnie

668
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 4: and Leon and I left somebody outry.

669
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: You're getting specific.

670
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 3: I just wanted to know that the factory process, so

671
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 3: it starts with the rhythm tracks first.

672
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: Vocals, the rhythm track, then the.

673
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 4: Vocals, vocals, and then strings and horns.

674
00:35:55,320 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 3: Okay, so then someone gives a tape to who would

675
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 3: do the actual writing of what.

676
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: After the vole and huff went string wise on.

677
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 4: After after, after the vocals were done, a cassette was

678
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 4: handed to somebody and they went home and wrote an

679
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 4: arrangement with no machines. You used the piano and you

680
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 4: came up with lines, or you came up with chordal things.

681
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 4: You know, when you wrote string, string and horn parts.

682
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: How many days do you have to do this?

683
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 4: It depended sometimes I did it in the studio at

684
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 4: times when they added a song or two, you know,

685
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 4: I mean they would they would forget. I mean Dexter

686
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 4: did it at times in the studio too. Not the

687
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 4: best way to do it, but yeah, I would it.

688
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 4: Maybe a week, you know, you might have five to

689
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 4: five days to a week to do a couple of arrangements.

690
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 3: Do you have a particular memorable favorite of yours that

691
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 3: you worked on that.

692
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 4: Back that day, Back in that day, mcfannen and Whitehead

693
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 4: really gave me the opportunity. I think they hired an

694
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,919
Speaker 4: arranger who didn't show up one day, and I think

695
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 4: Tommy bells around, and Tommy said, you know, let Larry

696
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 4: try it. You know, Yeah, I think I think I

697
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 4: think Tommy said because I think Tommy was a little

698
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 4: upset that they were hiring people that he didn't think

699
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 4: really knew what they were doing at times. You know,

700
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 4: I mean, but he could answer you better than I can. Yeah,

701
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,760
Speaker 4: I was gonna mean, how can you you know, because

702
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 4: you know you could someone who can come up with it. Look,

703
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 4: it's like all I do is write strings. Okay, most

704
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 4: of my life that's all I did. And when I

705
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 4: work on a record, sometimes people give me a string line.

706
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 4: And once when people give me a stringline, it's going

707
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 4: to be hard for me to link that stringline go away,

708
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 4: because first of all, they liked it enough to get

709
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 4: it to me. Yes, yeah, I mean that. Yeah, they

710
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 4: might be married to it. Well, sometimes that happened with

711
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 4: Gamble and Huff, you know, with with mcfatt and white,

712
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 4: they were married to something and they would tell me that,

713
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 4: you know. But and a lot of times in today's market,

714
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 4: I at it and I have to deal with it,

715
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 4: and a lot of times I think I can do better,

716
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 4: and I throw away and I hopefully do better you know.

717
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:06,439
Speaker 1: How does one.

718
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 3: I was about to say, in at least in the

719
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 3: seventies and eighties, there's a lot of trust that one

720
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 3: has to put in an arranger because it's not like

721
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 3: you have the technology today to play on synthesizer or

722
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 3: whatever that what you have planned for me, So it's almost.

723
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: Like I have to sit there in real time that

724
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: listen to you. You know. So the.

725
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 4: Producer, the producer came out into the studio and you

726
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 4: had your string players there and they put your phones on,

727
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 4: like we have all you blame me what you got.

728
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 4: Let me how good it is, Goldie, Let's see what

729
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 4: you did?

730
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: So has I dare you?

731
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 3: Has there ever been a case where an arranger had

732
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 3: something and they were sort of like, it's a little

733
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 3: too Stravinsky for.

734
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 1: Me, Like you went darker, Like how how do you know?

735
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 4: Well in the Philly Sound, I don't know whether Vinsky

736
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 4: played in too much.

737
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 3: Well, let's pick something adventurous, all right, So let's take

738
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 3: Nights over Egypt, which has quite an adventurous beginning at

739
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 3: least progression.

740
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the first thirty seconds, So that's dexter.

741
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 4: He wrote the arrangements too, I think, so, Yeah.

742
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, I didn't think that the.

743
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 4: Actual that's Dexter. Yeah, Dexter wrote his own I want

744
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 4: to tell you something Back in the day. Yeah, back

745
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 4: in the day. Ronnie Baker wrote arrangements, string arrangements. Norman

746
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 4: Harris was brilliant, real great string arrangements. Earl didn't. But

747
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 4: everybody else, Ronnie Cursey wrote good arrangements. Everybody sort of did.

748
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 4: Everybody grew up writing music from high school, you know,

749
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 4: everybody got into you know, had that as a skill. So,

750
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 4: I mean, and I learned a lot. Hey, look, man,

751
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 4: the best arranger ever passed out of passed through Philadelphia.

752
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 4: I think he's dead now, but it was Bobby Martin,

753
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 4: who an old school from the thirties arranger, you know,

754
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 4: who played vibes, you know, I mean.

755
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,479
Speaker 1: I know Bobby's name. Well. On an average week, how

756
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: often would you work?

757
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 4: A couple of days, a couple of days. It depends.

758
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 4: During the disco times, it was like four days a week,

759
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 4: maybe five days a week.

760
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,240
Speaker 1: So was that from people from Philadelphia?

761
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 4: Really good? From people from all over the world though,

762
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 4: you know, I mean we did. People don't realize this,

763
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 4: but we did. Like all of Jacques Moraley's records YMCA

764
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 4: what oh yeah, that's MFS big wow, non credited. The

765
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 4: Richie Family was m.

766
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: Y from Philly too. Yeah but okay, so.

767
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, Jacques Moral I remember, you know, I mean,

768
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 4: my memory is good when I wanted to be and

769
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 4: not so good when I obviously when I don't want

770
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 4: it to be. But I remember there was at some

771
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 4: fancy Paris nightclub where they danced naked and it was

772
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 4: the high point of disco music. And this guy named

773
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 4: I think Ben Alil or something, and Jacques Morale was

774
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 4: the producers and they brought over and they did the

775
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 4: first records they did was a Richie Room and it

776
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,720
Speaker 4: was called the Richie Family and it was m FSB

777
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 4: you know, done with their melodies that they brought in

778
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 4: a little more European flair and that that Richie did

779
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 4: for him, and they put vocals on him and they

780
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 4: did pretty good. And then the next group I think

781
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 4: they came back with after they had a lot of

782
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 4: success with that was the Village People. Wow wow, you know,

783
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 4: and I remember they they came to Philly and they

784
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 4: had a suitcase full of cash. In those days, some

785
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 4: of these people literally a suitcase full of cash to

786
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 4: pay the musicians.

787
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: Really step in our office. Here you go, step in

788
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: our office.

789
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 4: But that was not talking about non union work.

790
00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 3: What other non Philadelphia International were you part of that count?

791
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 4: There were a lot of there were a lot of things.

792
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 4: I mean for a while there, Norman Harris was working

793
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 4: from Motown. So if you go back and look at

794
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 4: some of those records in the in the mid seventies

795
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 4: through the late end of the seventies, I don't know

796
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 4: whether it was maybe the Temps, the Four Tops some

797
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 4: of those, right, we did we did a bunch of

798
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 4: those records too.

799
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, wow, it's amazing, not how.

800
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 4: Well, it's not my brain, you know, if you think

801
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 4: about it, I think Barry Gordy wanted to pick up

802
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 4: on Philly was really kicking. But then you know, those

803
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,919
Speaker 4: mid seventy years to the late years, I mean, it's

804
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 4: hard to find a place that sold more records than

805
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 4: Philly International.

806
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 3: Right, do you guys recall doing any work with Bernard

807
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,919
Speaker 3: Writing now Rogers people at all?

808
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 4: No, I went I went to Powill What right you

809
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 4: did it?

810
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:02,720
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sorry, I did.

811
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 4: I went to power Station to play on a few things.

812
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 4: But I'm not going to remember the name.

813
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: We have power Station News.

814
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 4: We took a bus there and all the mfs B

815
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 4: played all day, maybe one or two days, and we

816
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 4: came home and I don't remember what records. Okay. I

817
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 4: also smoked a lot of pot on that literally, which

818
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 4: I always do and we all know that.

819
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 1: So you're happy. Man, When.

820
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 3: Is there a particular date that you can pinpoint that

821
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 3: you noticed, like like, Okay, this might be an end

822
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 3: of an era, or we're not used as much, or

823
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 3: I'm out d X seven is now like the synthesizer is.

824
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 4: Guess what you just did? The top three right there?

825
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 1: You know.

826
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 4: The Yamaha was definitely a problem. Well it wasn't a problem,

827
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 4: but I got I started getting calls for some arranging

828
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 4: and when they would ask me if I would use

829
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 4: the Yamaha, the d D seven was what was t

830
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 4: X seven to use them for the strings instead of

831
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 4: paying the string players.

832
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:08,240
Speaker 1: Wow?

833
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 4: And I thought to myself, you know, asking me this

834
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 4: is and that was like, you know, it was sort

835
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 4: of getting in the late seventies when I felt like

836
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 4: it waste curtailing and plus the record started sucking too.

837
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 4: A lot of the records weren't nearly as good. I

838
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 4: was not looking forward to go to work in your

839
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 4: po you know, all day long, you know, I mean so,

840
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 4: but it was making a living, you know. And I

841
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 4: started looking around at that moment. The end of seventies.

842
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 4: I mean, even Gamble will tell you. I started working

843
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 4: for Sesame Street towards the end of the seventies. Really, yeah,

844
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 4: I found a few people that I connected with. A

845
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 4: matter of fact, the gentleman here yesterday, he and I

846
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 4: had a nice conversation.

847
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 1: Wow, playing on the disco frog. I did not know that.

848
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I thought you did. Remember we one time discussed

849
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 4: I did you need a little super guy? Oh yeah,

850
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 4: I thought you remembered that. Oh my god, that was

851
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 4: done in Philly.

852
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, I just turned into an eight year old too.

853
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 4: Yeah. That was Ezra Mohawk, who did the theme for

854
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 4: Teeny Little, who was an old hippie who was signed

855
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 4: by Frank Zappa back in the sixties.

856
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,280
Speaker 1: Oh, man, that's crazy.

857
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 4: That's what we did. That's what we did started doing

858
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 4: in the tail end of the seventies through the eighties.

859
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 4: We did Jerry and I, first of all, we were

860
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 4: friends from early on. I knew him when he was

861
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 4: playing with Frankie Beverly in the sixties a little bit.

862
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 4: He was a hippie and great keyboard player. Okay, and yeah,

863
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 4: and we all through the eighties we were at Sigma

864
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 4: and we did a lot of commercials. We did a

865
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 4: lot of different things.

866
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, did you do any like the

867
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 3: local all of them?

868
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 1: A lot of news?

869
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 4: Well, actually know what I'm working on right now, k

870
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 4: y W the new thing. I'm doing a big orchestral

871
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 4: arrangement for ky W, the upgrading.

872
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 8: Yeah, so it is the new in and out.

873
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 4: Like everything, it's the same ky W. But I mean

874
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,959
Speaker 4: it's just someone else wrote something where I'm putting gonna

875
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 4: put the strings on. But but we did like New

876
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 4: Jersey transit. I mean I used to get like Bunny

877
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 4: Siegler to sing I would get. I did one commercial

878
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 4: with Lou were all saying I didn't I did. Yeah,

879
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 4: I mean I had a good time with it and

880
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 4: people were willing to pay decent money in those days.

881
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 4: And did you do and let me smoke reefer in

882
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 4: the studio?

883
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 3: So I was the most important When did you decide

884
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 3: to establish your own business and up a studio?

885
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: And what told you that, Phil you needed one.

886
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 4: Well, the eighties were, as you well know, in I

887
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 4: went from doing all of that in the seventies to

888
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,919
Speaker 4: having nothing left of gamble on huff. I mean, they

889
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 4: they sort of just shut down completely.

890
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: But they'd never they did, but they but they didn't.

891
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 4: It was always there to make yeah, but to make

892
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 4: one record a year or you couldn't. You couldn't count

893
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 4: on that to make a living like we did for

894
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 4: a while. I mean there were a lot of people

895
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 4: that that did real well and you counted on it

896
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 4: to make a living. So in a way, to me,

897
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 4: it did shut down. And what happened was the eighties.

898
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 4: As as you guys know far better than I do.

899
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 4: I've just been on the journey of black music. But

900
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 4: rap started and then okay, and I happened to be okay.

901
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 4: We were doing this stuff with the Sesame Street. We

902
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 4: were doing okay, and all of a sudden, this artificial

903
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 4: intelligent music thing started appearing, and more readily, I mean

904
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,479
Speaker 4: drum machines. We always bought whatever was new and tried

905
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 4: around and and we would fool around with it, and

906
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 4: even the d X seven we had it. I remember

907
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 4: sitting in the living room when I was playing the

908
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 4: strings sounds instead of they're kidding me, aren't they? You know,

909
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 4: thinking that all you could do was these heavenly pads,

910
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 4: you know, which is okay, but every record gonna have

911
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 4: heavenly pads on it, I.

912
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: Mean in the eighties.

913
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:14,359
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, So make a long story short. We ended

914
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 4: up we Jerry and I ended up moving into with

915
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 4: Studio four early on, and they ended up starting to

916
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 4: do more rap, and I met Lawrence Goodman. I think

917
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 4: Kenny actually at Penny actually told Lawrence Goodman to introduce

918
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 4: himself to me, and he came to Segma. We were

919
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 4: still at Sigma, and he was tired. Okay, he'd have

920
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 4: to tell you himself, but I think that he wasn't

921
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 4: getting any publishing royalties and he wanted to know if

922
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 4: Jerry and I could copy some. He would bring a

923
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,919
Speaker 4: record and saying, can you make something that sounds like this,

924
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 4: you know, for work for hire?

925
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: You know?

926
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 4: Oh yeah. So I think we did that for a

927
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 4: little while for him at Sigma, and then we moved,

928
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:04,439
Speaker 4: we left and went somewhere else, and yeah, we went.

929
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 4: We went to Victory what was the Victory Victor Ocajum

930
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 4: and we started and we did Steady B and Cool C.

931
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,879
Speaker 4: We did a whole bunch of albums there with them.

932
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 4: You know, it was a living synth arrangements or yeah,

933
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 4: Sinkle of Her arrangements. I bought this. I bought a

934
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 4: Sinkle ofvir in like eighty three or eighty four. I

935
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 4: took the session, I took some of the monies and

936
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 4: borrowed money at the bank. Somebody co signed a loan

937
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 4: for me, and I bought that fucking expensive thing.

938
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: Man, I'm willing to bet he might not remember. I'm

939
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,720
Speaker 1: willing to bet so since back when Salt and Pepper

940
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:45,879
Speaker 1: were Super Nature.

941
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 4: And they were at Studio four, you got it them here.

942
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:56,800
Speaker 3: I bet you that they commissioned them to play the

943
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 3: Revenge of the Nerds.

944
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: All right, so you remember there first record was the

945
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: show Stopper.

946
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and.

947
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: Their music was the Revenge of the Nerds song.

948
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 3: I'm almost willing to bet because all the credits on

949
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 3: the Show Stopper says it was done at Studio for and.

950
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 1: On a sink clavier.

951
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 4: So yeah, well that was my sink clavier on this stodom.

952
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: I'm almost willing How did the sink.

953
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 4: Clavia except you got to understand that.

954
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: You know.

955
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 4: Hey, look when I had Jerry as my partner, I

956
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 4: didn't even play really, I mean I dreamed. I composed

957
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 4: like I always had done. But he was a much

958
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 4: better keyboard player than I could have ever dreamed to be.

959
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 4: And and so he played. So that was my impetus

960
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 4: in even buying it to begin with, because I realized.

961
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:46,839
Speaker 4: First of all, we went up to New York, they

962
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 4: gave us a morning with it, and he and I

963
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 4: in the morning we created some pretty hot tracks, you know,

964
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 4: just fucking around. You know, we looked at each other

965
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 4: and and the bass. You could feel the bass, you know,

966
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 4: And you know when you had a Len drum machine,

967
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,760
Speaker 4: and somehow this had simpty. It had all the things

968
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:09,760
Speaker 4: that were coming into being at that moment.

969
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: So was it like a computer.

970
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,919
Speaker 4: I still have it. I still use it to this day.

971
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 4: Oh wow, it sounds like shit, but oh that's right,

972
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 4: that's still.

973
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 1: You still use it to arranger.

974
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 4: I still use it.

975
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: Wow, that's from then. It's true.

976
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 4: Then it's now like forty some years no, thirty some

977
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 4: years old.

978
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 1: Wow, ooh, that's crazy.

979
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:34,879
Speaker 9: The only person I knew was Stevie, right right, right,

980
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:35,919
Speaker 9: only it was on the prison.

981
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: But you can't do cords on it, can you.

982
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not it's not. No, it's it's no. It's

983
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 4: it's got sixty four voices. It was a it was

984
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:46,760
Speaker 4: a genius thing when it was invented.

985
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 8: So is it a keyboard, like it's a keyboard.

986
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it just sounds like uh orchestral.

987
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, it comes with Yeah, it comes with orchestral patches.

988
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 1: Right, it's been perfected now leaf.

989
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 3: But back then you had to pay a lot of

990
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 3: money to get something that sounds and also.

991
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 4: To have memory enough to be able to do it,

992
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 4: you know, in other words, to record a song inside

993
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 4: a little box.

994
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: You know.

995
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 4: I think that back in those days we had I

996
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 4: don't know, eight megs of memory or something, which was

997
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 4: unheard of. A Linn drum machine had one meg.

998
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: Yeah it did.

999
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 4: So this was eight nightmare. Right, It was a night

1000
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 4: You had to move, open up the back and move

1001
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 4: the chip. Right, you guys.

1002
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,800
Speaker 3: Remember, I mean I remember well, I mean I collect

1003
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 3: them now, okay, but I think I wasn't dependent on

1004
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 3: it for work. But I've talked to enough eighties drummers

1005
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 3: that you know, have had nightmares with that machine. You know,

1006
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 3: moving the chips and that sort of thing.

1007
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 4: And keeping in sync. Yeah, sink was always a problem,

1008
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:52,280
Speaker 4: even though they said.

1009
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 3: Every Bobby Z would tell me nightly, like the songs

1010
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 3: start fluctuating faster fast, you know that sort of thing.

1011
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: So that was a nightmare for him. So when did

1012
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,359
Speaker 1: the studio open in nineteen ninety nine?

1013
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 4: No, the studio opened. When did the roots come here?

1014
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 4: About ninety eight?

1015
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: Ninety eight?

1016
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, so the studio opened two years before then,

1017
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 4: so ninety six. And why I opened the studio was

1018
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 4: because I sort of was at that place in Society

1019
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 4: Hill was my I was at Sigma. I thought Sigma

1020
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 4: was going to go bankrupt, because I don't I shouldn't.

1021
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,240
Speaker 4: Maybe I shouldn't even tell this story, but anyway, probably

1022
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,879
Speaker 4: should we make a long story short. I was told

1023
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 4: to get all my equipment out because I owned my

1024
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 4: equipment in my room there, right, So I left Sigma.

1025
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,840
Speaker 4: I had to leave over the weekend sort of, and

1026
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 4: I moved into what was Cajun Okay, that was bought

1027
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 4: by another dude. Cajun was owned.

1028
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,240
Speaker 1: By at one point.

1029
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 4: I remember he was a really good engineer. When I

1030
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 4: first opened here, he came here, and he got great

1031
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,320
Speaker 4: sound out of this room. He was a really good engineer.

1032
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:05,760
Speaker 4: And I'm not I'm sorry, I'm not going to remember.

1033
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 4: I might as we continue convers conversing, I might remember his,

1034
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 4: but I'm not going to remember his one. He was

1035
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 4: a very good engineer.

1036
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 1: At one point, boys men purchased Kajum they did, yeah

1037
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:19,760
Speaker 1: the days I think.

1038
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 4: While but while while these guys owned it, jazz, he

1039
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:28,280
Speaker 4: moved in there too. Jeff moved somehow, somehow, Jeff Studio

1040
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 4: four and Kajum no before Studio four. Okay, I think

1041
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 4: he and James Poyser I met out there, and I

1042
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 4: think that was the early nineties. Really, I think so

1043
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 4: and and and Victor right or they they were. They

1044
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 4: were a touch of jazz out there then, right they were,

1045
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 4: and I met them. I did the I did that

1046
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 4: Whitehead Brothers record. That must have been an early nineties

1047
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:02,240
Speaker 4: and that's when I met Jane.

1048
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,800
Speaker 3: Oh wow, they did. Ah, I'm not a player. I

1049
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 3: don't want to be. They thought I was going to be.

1050
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: They took they took Pete Rocks number one, Soul Brothers. Yeah,

1051
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 1: uh pain, Yes, that was for your pain and I

1052
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 1: love that. But did you know the eighty six record.

1053
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: I didn't know they oh like on Atlantic or something,

1054
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 1: right they I think Philly International.

1055
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 3: I had to deal with Manhattan Records.

1056
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Capital Kenny and Johnny the white Head brothers.

1057
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:45,919
Speaker 9: Yeah, and they were the sons of John Whitehead of Okay, yeah,

1058
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 9: John Whitehead.

1059
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 4: And I've been messing around with them since they were

1060
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 4: really little, oh wow, really little.

1061
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 1: On the Low Kenny, Uh, the youngest one is Kenny, right.

1062
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 4: Yeah. He would come and hang out my studio like

1063
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 4: thirteen years old.

1064
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 3: Okay, so you know the cliche of whenever musicians, uh

1065
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 3: go in to music store and like store managers forbade

1066
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 3: them to play like Stairway to Heaven that sort of thing,

1067
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:21,280
Speaker 3: or like the opening chords of Purple Haze. Like Kenny

1068
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 3: on the Low, he could shred like Hendrix, Like I

1069
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 3: was like, whoa, this is the Whitehead brother guy. But

1070
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,359
Speaker 3: this back when he was like fourteen, like he was

1071
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,800
Speaker 3: a he was a great guitarist thredder, but sort of

1072
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 3: shrugged it off like eh, you know whatever.

1073
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 4: He was a talented young kid.

1074
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: He was.

1075
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:45,359
Speaker 4: He really he could play piano really well too. Yeah,

1076
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:47,320
Speaker 4: I mean it was a it was We did a

1077
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 4: whole bunch of records that never came out Gamble. They

1078
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 4: were signed, you were right, they were signed to that label,

1079
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 4: and there was that. I don't know how many records

1080
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 4: I helped through those years. Okay, but then they got

1081
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:02,280
Speaker 4: signed to Motown.

1082
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:03,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, and.

1083
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:10,839
Speaker 4: They did. They started the album in California and they

1084
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 4: came back to my studio with maybe one or two

1085
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 4: songs done, and we ended up doing the rest of

1086
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 4: the album at the studio with the sink lavier. And yeah,

1087
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 4: I mean I think I got associate producer credit on that,

1088
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 4: which I think, yeah, or co producer. You know, that

1089
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:34,959
Speaker 4: was about right, he really, you know, I mean yeah,

1090
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 4: And we did that beautiful black Princess song which had

1091
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 4: a beautiful string arrangement on it, and uh, I got

1092
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 4: so much notice from that, you know, because it was

1093
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 4: an old Philly kind of song, you know, and and

1094
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 4: Kenny sang it so good.

1095
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, I wore that album out back then.

1096
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 4: See a lot of a lot of people did, and

1097
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 4: I got I got real notice from that. So you

1098
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 4: asked me why why I opened this place is I

1099
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 4: knew that I still had a little bit in me

1100
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 4: to be able to help young kids make good good products.

1101
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 4: You know, you know so, but you need you need

1102
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 4: major talent. Let's face all facts, guys, you know you

1103
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 4: need good people on every little level.

1104
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: So I want I wanted to ask you about that.

1105
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 9: So in doing the string arrangement, and you have your

1106
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 9: chair orders, like you know, first viola, second viola, whatever,

1107
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 9: how important is it because I mean if you have

1108
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 9: I don't know if it's forty pieces or whatever, how

1109
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 9: exact does it have to be, say, oh, the fifth

1110
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 9: cello is a little out or whatever. I don't know,

1111
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 9: Like with so many people, how is it that one

1112
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 9: person can make that big of a difference, Like if

1113
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 9: you hear someone that's a little flat, Like can you

1114
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 9: hear that?

1115
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: Does it? Does it really make a difference to hear it? Really?

1116
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 4: It's sure you could hear it. Yeah, I mean you

1117
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 4: want it to sound malifluous. I use that word before

1118
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 4: on it. You know, you want it to sound organic.

1119
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 4: I mean a little bit of here and there. That's

1120
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 4: all part of life, you know. But when something's really whack,

1121
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 4: you know it's weak, you can hear it, you know,

1122
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 4: you know when there's a wrong note. You know there

1123
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 4: were arrangements we did, you know which you know, some

1124
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 4: of that I wrote. Some of them I didn't write

1125
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 4: where I could swear there was just some note rubbing

1126
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 4: somewhere down the line, you know. But it was all live,

1127
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 4: you know, and I had to get over it, you

1128
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 4: know it.

1129
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 9: Did you have like certain favorites that you have in

1130
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 9: terms of, hey, I need a viola.

1131
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 1: I know this guy.

1132
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did for years, And now I'm relying on

1133
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 4: younger people. Now, you know, I'm bringing in, you know,

1134
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 4: different people, and I still only use like maybe like

1135
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 4: this week, I'm doing a date for I'm doing a

1136
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 4: record for some young kid in Indiana, and I'm only

1137
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 4: using ten musicians.

1138
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 1: You know.

1139
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 4: I still do that, and I double and sometimes if

1140
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 4: I wanted to be a little even bigger, you know,

1141
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 4: I'll even triple it, or I'll write another part for

1142
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 4: it so so that it sounds like it's more than

1143
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 4: it is.

1144
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: Gotcha. I was alwayscusing mem about Vince Montana.

1145
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 4: Yeah he was a good friend. Yeah, yeah, he used

1146
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 4: to come to the studio an awful lot. Okay, yeah,

1147
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 4: this this play in other words, even and by the

1148
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 4: time I opened this place, Ronnie Baker was dead and

1149
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 4: Norman Harris was dead Earl Young used to come here

1150
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 4: all the time. Oh wow, Yeah, And Vince came here

1151
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 4: all the time. And Leon Come used to come here

1152
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 4: all the time. And Kenny comes and uses the studio

1153
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 4: at times. I mean he doesn't really work that much,

1154
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 4: but I mean he has.

1155
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: Come and Vince.

1156
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 9: Was he a keyboard player or he was a vibe player? Okay, yeah,

1157
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 9: I just knew him from a Goodie Goodie. It looks

1158
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 9: like love. That's like I love that song he was.

1159
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 9: He also looks huge.

1160
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 4: I played in the South, so I played all those

1161
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 4: records with him, and you know, I even went out

1162
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 4: live with him.

1163
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:42,960
Speaker 1: But he.

1164
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 4: I don't like talking ill of people, you know, so,

1165
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 4: but he was always a pain in my butt. He

1166
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 4: always made shit hard, you know. I mean, and should

1167
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 4: life should be eat? Try to make it a little easier,

1168
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 4: you know. But he would always like stir the pot

1169
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 4: man they needed. Yeah he did, he did, and he didn't.

1170
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 3: The third tier of your story, of course, is you

1171
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 3: as an arranger. And this is I mean just the

1172
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,360
Speaker 3: names alone are straight humble brags.

1173
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it's al Green.

1174
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 4: You got me that. Oh I'm just saying, come on,

1175
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 4: I had good friends here. You know you know sometimes

1176
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 4: about the relationships.

1177
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 1: Let's go through cut here. Y'all did the Al Green

1178
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 1: record here.

1179
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 3: We cut the rhythm tracks Electric Lady and Synth, the

1180
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 3: strings hilaric. So there's al Green, there's amos Lee, there's

1181
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 3: Aunt Fiddler Angeley grew up Philly, you know that, Yeah,

1182
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 3: and Nesby, Anthony Hamilton, Aretha Franklin, uh Backstreet Boys, Pabel,

1183
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 3: Gilberto Brandy, uh.

1184
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 8: Sparks, The Boy is Mine case.

1185
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 4: You did the Whoa, I did the Boys. Well, that

1186
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 4: was when Rodney's when I opened the studio here. Rodney

1187
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 4: was my first client.

1188
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 3: I was about to say I first met here.

1189
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:13,840
Speaker 4: We go back now. He was fifteen when I was

1190
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 4: working with Kenny Gamble, That's right, That's right, when I

1191
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 4: was working with Kenny Whitehead. Wrong. Kenny Rodney loved that album,

1192
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 4: so he came up and introduced his He made his

1193
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 4: father drive him from Atlantic City Pleasentville, New Jersey, appear

1194
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 4: to introduce himself to me. And he was this little kid,

1195
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:34,919
Speaker 4: you know. And I told Alan Rubins at the time

1196
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 4: we were working on some project, that he always had

1197
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 4: me working on different things, whether they were good or bad,

1198
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 4: And I said, you should let him produce a couple

1199
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 4: of tracks, Do me a Favor. I know he's fourteen

1200
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 4: years old, but do me a f and Alan Rubins

1201
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 4: was my but you know my age. You know, he's

1202
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 4: a nice guy. Worked for him my whole love you

1203
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 4: wwmot remember that that label, Okay, make a long.

1204
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 1: Story short, the Double Dutch Buds and you know.

1205
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 4: Who represented Rodney Jerkins who first time I mem that's it.

1206
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 4: So that was that was the early nineties.

1207
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, Dranella duflf half Life. He brought Rodney to the studio.

1208
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 3: He was fifteen fourteen or fifteen fourteen, and he was like,

1209
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 3: Brad's like, this kid's going around the world one day.

1210
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: And I was looking at you like, yeah, so well

1211
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 1: guess what.

1212
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 4: He came to my studio and I had that one

1213
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 4: of my world'sers there. He sat down and start playing

1214
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 4: me a Stevie Wonders songs and you know what I said,

1215
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 4: I said, you're my friend, you know, and a beautile.

1216
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 1: It was really well.

1217
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 4: Thought of and you know, and and he looked at me,

1218
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 4: big smile on his face, and he loved He and

1219
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 4: Kenny got along really well. And yeah, so that was

1220
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:47,440
Speaker 4: the beginning there. And then I opened this place, yes me,

1221
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 4: and I thought, by meeting all these really talented young people,

1222
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 4: I had a feeling that somehow there was going to

1223
01:03:56,600 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 4: be a resurgence of the Philly sound. I had a

1224
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 4: sneaky suspicion before it happened, Before it, well, it was

1225
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 4: already happening, meeting people like Rodney and meeting having Kenny

1226
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 4: Whitehead there, having it records, right then, come on, it

1227
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 4: was happening, you know.

1228
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 3: And I gotta say that, Larry, I mean, what really

1229
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 3: makes the studio special?

1230
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:24,919
Speaker 1: And even though it's now Milk Boy here and it's

1231
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 1: a little.

1232
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 4: Different, I'm not here all the time either, you know anymore.

1233
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I'm just saying that the vibe of this

1234
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 3: place the luck. First of all, you made the first

1235
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 3: studio I've ever seen that has.

1236
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 1: Windows in it. Yeah, I like that next to casinos.

1237
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 3: I've never seen a business that shuts you out from daylight.

1238
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 3: I've never been in a studio that gives you any

1239
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:51,480
Speaker 3: sort of time or date indication whatsoever. So when you

1240
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:53,440
Speaker 3: go into the reception area.

1241
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:54,479
Speaker 8: And you see the whole thing.

1242
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, it's just like you know, I mean, I

1243
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 3: shot my album cover Philadelphia Experiments on the rooftop here.

1244
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 1: It's just it feels like home. You know. I mean

1245
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 1: I've spent the night here millions of times, and.

1246
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,640
Speaker 7: You know, I mean y'all have not. I mean thanks

1247
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 7: reached out and kind of made it home. Putting you know,

1248
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 7: polls and graffiti.

1249
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 1: We'll get to that. Get to that.

1250
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 4: I thought we were going to skip that.

1251
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:24,880
Speaker 1: That's the main attraction.

1252
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 4: We need Richard Nichols here.

1253
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: But there's more.

1254
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 3: There's Bubba Sparks, there's Case, there's Changing Faces there, there's

1255
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 3: Charlie Wilson, there's Christina Aguilera, there's Chromeo, there's Coco, there's Common,

1256
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 3: there's uh uh.

1257
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 1: Oh Daily, Damn Daily was here too, Darn Hall, John Oates,

1258
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 1: Dave cos was here, uh Jessey, Jeff Donelle Jones, Drew Hill,

1259
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 1: Eddie LeVert, Joel oh Man, Yo, the funniest.

1260
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 8: The break Off sessions.

1261
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 3: But not even met whenever Gerald LeVert came to the studio,

1262
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 3: he was here a lot too.

1263
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 1: It was it was just it was a part like

1264
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 1: I really missed that guy. You know what I mean.

1265
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:11,440
Speaker 10: While we're talking about JERD, you did the strings for

1266
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 10: Answering Service. Yeah, oh man, the intro on that man

1267
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 10: I used to I think I almost broke that tape

1268
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 10: just we wanted those strings on that intro over there again.

1269
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 4: That was beautiful and he was a good friend. He

1270
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 4: was really a good kid. I met him at the

1271
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 4: at Sigmund in the eighties when he had that.

1272
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 3: Back where he used to work with what Jim South

1273
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 3: That's right, they did that record together. Yeah, Jim Salomon

1274
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 3: used to play a shout out to Jim Salmon. He

1275
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 3: used to be my dad drummer Eric Bene.

1276
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 4: I didn't know that, Yeah, yeah, I didn't know that.

1277
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 3: In the seventies Jim used to drum from my dad

1278
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 3: Eric Roberson and Eric about du flow try uh, Glenn

1279
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 3: Lewis and the I re Jacket Edge.

1280
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 8: First album India.

1281
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 2: I sorry, yeah, the jazz bad Nass.

1282
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 3: He's Jennifer Lopez, whom used Bruce Withdan and.

1283
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 4: Reached us with her presence for a few weeks. We

1284
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 4: were I remember you got up front, you guy.

1285
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 1: We were on r ps and qes. It was so

1286
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 1: clean here. We all wore suits.

1287
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 3: Oh wow there you had catered uh, the best catered

1288
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 3: food in the world.

1289
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 1: Like there was rose there.

1290
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:35,640
Speaker 4: They did that. I didn't. I did buy flowers and

1291
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 4: I brought bought nice hand soap.

1292
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 1: There was.

1293
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, you're playing on Karen Young's hot Shot

1294
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 3: Yeah this morning.

1295
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:51,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just listening to that this morning.

1296
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 4: Just the stress record was made, was made in the

1297
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 4: studio that was in fabric Row off of Fourth Street

1298
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 4: in Philadelphia and South Philadelphia. That's not there or anymore.

1299
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 1: Jesus wow, I didn't even realize kids, like, I'm just

1300
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 1: going through I.

1301
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 4: Mere I played on thousands of records played. They're not

1302
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 4: listed there, It says a member of m FSB at

1303
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:16,799
Speaker 4: some point. It says in the in some of those credits,

1304
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 4: you know, but yeah, I all kid Cutty records. He

1305
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:27,000
Speaker 4: doesn't just say what about Lana del Rey's premiere album?

1306
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 7: Ah?

1307
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 1: So are you?

1308
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:34,759
Speaker 3: Is it still like, I mean, how often are you doing?

1309
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:36,720
Speaker 3: Are you to the place now where you could just

1310
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:38,800
Speaker 3: say like, all right enough, I can't do any more

1311
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:40,719
Speaker 3: arrangements or I like doing it.

1312
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 1: So that's still yours? You still get up at five

1313
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:43,680
Speaker 1: am to.

1314
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 4: I don't get up at I do get up. I

1315
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 4: do get up really early in the morning, but I

1316
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 4: don't come here as obsessively as I used to you.

1317
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 4: I mean, I would get here at six in the morning,

1318
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:58,800
Speaker 4: and you guys would still be up recording from the night.

1319
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 4: We would creep and you would laugh a lot about it,

1320
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:05,160
Speaker 4: and I'd go into my room and work.

1321
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 1: No, we just don't want to interrupt you.

1322
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 3: So the thing is like usually when the sun comes out,

1323
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 3: I'm like, all right, I better run in the bathroom

1324
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 3: real quick because I know Larry's about to start at scales.

1325
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:17,679
Speaker 3: But it's kind of that creeping in the house where

1326
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 3: you know, like there's a creak in the floor that

1327
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 3: sort of on that spot, ye wake up your mom

1328
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:24,600
Speaker 3: and dad, that sort of thing. So I had like

1329
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:28,880
Speaker 3: a system of I know where the special planks are

1330
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:31,360
Speaker 3: that will give me away, and the squeak of the

1331
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 3: door and all that stuff. So that was my everyday ritual,

1332
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 3: like five forty five am, like all right, let me

1333
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 3: do my business before I hear.

1334
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:43,640
Speaker 1: And so you would still practice your scales every month.

1335
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:45,800
Speaker 4: Well, I mean there was there was a period of

1336
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:47,759
Speaker 4: time when I was so busy that I really didn't

1337
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 4: But now I'm back. I'm back, but I I reversed it.

1338
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 4: So now I go home like and I start playing

1339
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 4: around three to four in the afternoon, and I play

1340
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 4: into until I have to fall asleep at night. Wow,

1341
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:01,800
Speaker 4: So I enjoy it that much, you know. I mean

1342
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 4: I'm still playing, and a lot of times I just

1343
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 4: start somewhere and I end up somewhere else. But I'm

1344
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:10,160
Speaker 4: actually playing a little better than I remember it and

1345
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 4: playing in a while, you know. I mean, I'm about

1346
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 4: as good as I was when I was maybe fourteen

1347
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 4: right now. But I'm with that.

1348
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 1: That's where how the peaks of valleys and the dips start, like.

1349
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:23,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I where when you don't play, you lose

1350
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:27,040
Speaker 4: your technique and you have to rebuild your technique properly.

1351
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:29,400
Speaker 4: And I'm you know, I'm seventy one now, and they're

1352
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:31,920
Speaker 4: really a lot of bones, you ache, and a lot

1353
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:34,720
Speaker 4: of things are changed now than when you're little, you know.

1354
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 1: But it's cool.

1355
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:36,680
Speaker 4: I'm really liking it.

1356
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:38,719
Speaker 9: Yeah, I was gonna say, how much in playing cello,

1357
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:43,880
Speaker 9: how much I guess does the physicality play like age?

1358
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 5: Like?

1359
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 1: Is it a like hands things?

1360
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 9: It's always all handsome, any kind of off righters or

1361
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:50,680
Speaker 9: anything that'll that'll slow you up.

1362
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:53,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you have there's certain looseness. I mean, here,

1363
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 4: I'll tell you it's any good musician, you the approach

1364
01:10:56,439 --> 01:10:59,120
Speaker 4: to playing. You want it to be real natural, you know,

1365
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:01,600
Speaker 4: and you don't even want to think about the physicalness

1366
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 4: of it right here.

1367
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:04,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I was going to say, how do you

1368
01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 1: adjust that? Now?

1369
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:09,559
Speaker 3: Only recently she I told you about the trick that

1370
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 3: Chili you taught me, right, all right, So I'll say

1371
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:18,720
Speaker 3: that I'm at the very beginning stages of what I mean.

1372
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:20,080
Speaker 3: I don't want to put it out there whatever. I

1373
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:23,480
Speaker 3: don't know if it's arthritis or a carp you're feeling something.

1374
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:26,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just a lot of tightness. So you know,

1375
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 1: I've been open to CBD oil.

1376
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:32,200
Speaker 3: And all these things to to help with the aches

1377
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:36,599
Speaker 3: and pains. Chili told me go to Trader Joe's and

1378
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:43,439
Speaker 3: get the big assu bag of rice, like the the

1379
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 3: the family supply of right, like the big giant supply.

1380
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 3: If I have refrigerator or a freezer big enough to

1381
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:55,759
Speaker 3: store it in there to make it cold or whatever,

1382
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:59,400
Speaker 3: do that. And then right before I drum, just put

1383
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 3: my entire arm inside the back of rice and do

1384
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:07,720
Speaker 3: like ham rotation motions. Wow uh, and exercise warming up

1385
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:09,360
Speaker 3: your hands. That's something I've never done before, you know.

1386
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:11,599
Speaker 3: I just come and start playing drums or whatever. But

1387
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:14,679
Speaker 3: now it's like I'm starting to notice like certain angles

1388
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 3: of my elbows will start to hurt and that sort

1389
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 3: of thing.

1390
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,679
Speaker 7: So are you asking other drummers too? Like I just sound.

1391
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:22,559
Speaker 1: Much well, I mean I came to Shila.

1392
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:27,400
Speaker 3: I mean, no one, there's something really weird about between

1393
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 3: forty five and fifty five that I feel like a

1394
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:32,839
Speaker 3: lot of people are a little too ashamed.

1395
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:35,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, still want to talk about it? Yeah, like I

1396
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:36,120
Speaker 1: admit it.

1397
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:38,960
Speaker 3: So you know, yeah, your ankles ever feel like no, no,

1398
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:41,320
Speaker 3: does this start to swell or that start? Nobody there's

1399
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:43,679
Speaker 3: no one really to talk to you, you know, because

1400
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 3: they have the joints A seventy year old.

1401
01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, but you know, the other day I was, I was,

1402
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:53,040
Speaker 4: I watched Ben Art Purty. Sure, sure it still looks good.

1403
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:55,839
Speaker 4: I don't know how old he is. His whole process

1404
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 4: of playing is is not like big, it's very small.

1405
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 3: Well, every every drum teacher I ever had told me

1406
01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:06,080
Speaker 3: from the gate, like, don't use your arms, use very

1407
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:08,680
Speaker 3: little hammos. But of course, you know, you want to

1408
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 3: show off and show everyone that you.

1409
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 4: Like rock it out or what's your cock?

1410
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 7: Like this?

1411
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 3: And now I wish i'd listen because you know, even

1412
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:19,640
Speaker 3: to hold the remote controls.

1413
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 1: Like oh wow, you know, and any kind of wrist

1414
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 1: raps or anything like that. Don't really, I don't do respect,

1415
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:29,360
Speaker 1: you know, for real. And that's the thing. I don't

1416
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:33,600
Speaker 1: know if this is I believe in CBD oil, No,

1417
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 1: as do I.

1418
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:38,280
Speaker 3: It's you know, I see that's not just you know,

1419
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:39,840
Speaker 3: placebo syndrome or whatever.

1420
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:40,599
Speaker 1: Everybody.

1421
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:43,480
Speaker 4: Everybody says though when it when it has some THC

1422
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 4: in it, which doesn't really get you high, it doesn't

1423
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:50,400
Speaker 4: at all, right, no, but they mix it with THC

1424
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:55,320
Speaker 4: another I like the pharmaceutical brand that my brother's using

1425
01:13:55,400 --> 01:14:00,679
Speaker 4: right now is a combination of CBD and THHC. Same,

1426
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 4: Oh is that the same thing?

1427
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 1: Well that you can get options, right, that's what if

1428
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:09,519
Speaker 1: you know, friend, you've changed. You live in New York

1429
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:16,600
Speaker 1: Medicals legal. I got friends many because I've changed, Like

1430
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:20,439
Speaker 1: y is a little surprised and just made I had

1431
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 1: I had nineteen forty two on the rocks.

1432
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 7: Like yeah, order to shot Larry like it was it

1433
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:29,559
Speaker 7: was like we'll say what now, but yeah, he.

1434
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 1: Had nineteen forty two on the rocks. Yeah, this one, well,

1435
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:37,800
Speaker 1: you know they took so long to give us service. Bruh,

1436
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 1: look that than got They had to.

1437
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that was no I do nineteen forty two

1438
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 3: because there's no sugar in nineteen forty two.

1439
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 1: Now you've been sticking to it, man, you've been sticking

1440
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:51,640
Speaker 1: to I'm proud of you, man, been trying trying to

1441
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 1: be here. I want to be pretty Yeah I die.

1442
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 4: I want you to be too.

1443
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:56,200
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1444
01:14:56,840 --> 01:15:02,000
Speaker 3: So is there anything that you have yet to achieve? Like,

1445
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:04,799
Speaker 3: do you want to do an orchestral album?

1446
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, I don't look at life

1447
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 4: that way right now.

1448
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:10,479
Speaker 1: I'm you know.

1449
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 4: I mean, I had a recent about a year and

1450
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:21,720
Speaker 4: a half ago. I almost died and it took me

1451
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:26,760
Speaker 4: about six months to recover from a trauma injury. And

1452
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:27,599
Speaker 4: I recovered.

1453
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:28,960
Speaker 1: Well, you didn't play at all or.

1454
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:33,760
Speaker 4: I couldn't play? Yeah, Like, well, I started playing a

1455
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:36,280
Speaker 4: couple of months in and then I got an infection

1456
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 4: because I was bending my leg. It's a complic I

1457
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 4: don't want to talk about it right now. It's a

1458
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:45,880
Speaker 4: complicated thing. I got gangreen and they had to remove

1459
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:48,839
Speaker 4: a part of my leg and they destroyed the nerves.

1460
01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:51,640
Speaker 4: And they didn't destroy they they cut the nerves in

1461
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:53,720
Speaker 4: my leg, so I had I had to sort of

1462
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:58,639
Speaker 4: relearn something some stuff, and they didn't want I started

1463
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 4: playing about them a month or two when I came

1464
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:02,800
Speaker 4: home from the hospital. I was in the hospital about

1465
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 4: two two and some weeks and I came home and

1466
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:09,640
Speaker 4: I started playing and my leg blew way up and

1467
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:11,640
Speaker 4: I got some infection and I had to go on.

1468
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:14,479
Speaker 4: So I was told I had to be reclined for

1469
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:17,559
Speaker 4: another few weeks. And then I started playing again and

1470
01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 4: that's it helped me. And then smoked a lot of

1471
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:22,760
Speaker 4: pot because I wasn't going to I wasn't going to

1472
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 4: do the opioids. Yeah, so in the in the hospital,

1473
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:29,320
Speaker 4: they had me high as a cute one delauded, you know.

1474
01:16:29,439 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 4: And then as soon as they were letting me go home,

1475
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:35,040
Speaker 4: because you get sick in the hospital sometimes from hospital stuff,

1476
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:36,639
Speaker 4: you know, they want to get your home as fast

1477
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:40,920
Speaker 4: as they can so you don't get sick from infections.

1478
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 4: Make a long story short, they cut your delauded like

1479
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 4: to nothing. They don't want to send you home with

1480
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:49,960
Speaker 4: pills anymore. It's not it's not very popular. So I said,

1481
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:52,559
Speaker 4: I said, hold hold the pills. I'm going to buy

1482
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:54,960
Speaker 4: a bag of pot, and we proceeded to go right

1483
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:57,640
Speaker 4: and buy a bag of pot. And and I was,

1484
01:16:57,960 --> 01:16:59,719
Speaker 4: you know, I was up most of the time with pain,

1485
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:01,760
Speaker 4: but I was smoking it like crazy, like I was

1486
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:05,479
Speaker 4: a hip, young hippie again. And I got real into it.

1487
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:07,439
Speaker 4: And then I looked at Viking and I said, we're

1488
01:17:07,439 --> 01:17:12,080
Speaker 4: gonna buy half a pound. We're doing the old days.

1489
01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:14,839
Speaker 4: We're gonna have the freezer full.

1490
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:16,479
Speaker 8: Are you feeling the pot these days?

1491
01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 7: Because you know, Pott didn't change since at first you

1492
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:20,400
Speaker 7: started like are you feeling this?

1493
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:23,360
Speaker 4: It was first of all, I was just didn't I

1494
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:25,960
Speaker 4: didn't miss There were a few years where I was

1495
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:29,040
Speaker 4: like drinking stuff and doing other stuff. And but then

1496
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:31,680
Speaker 4: when I got back, I went right. I know a

1497
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 4: guy I have a friend at humbold County. I just

1498
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:35,720
Speaker 4: got a wound the Marilluona.

1499
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:38,599
Speaker 8: Wow, damn, you got straight to.

1500
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:40,479
Speaker 4: The plug, straight to them.

1501
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:44,080
Speaker 1: And and guess what, let's here for miracles.

1502
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:45,479
Speaker 4: It helped, It helped me. It helped me.

1503
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:47,240
Speaker 1: Heal, well, I'm glad you're here.

1504
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:50,519
Speaker 4: Man, me too. And I'm still smoking about a bag

1505
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 4: a week, you know, So what he's doing.

1506
01:17:54,960 --> 01:18:00,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, anything left from the pound that the town's gone.

1507
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:03,880
Speaker 1: All right, just check check it right now.

1508
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:06,640
Speaker 3: All right, Larry, I thank you so much for doing this.

1509
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:07,640
Speaker 3: I appreciate it.

1510
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:14,000
Speaker 8: Yes, that was my album.

1511
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:15,760
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.

1512
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:19,240
Speaker 5: Thank you, Larry.

1513
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:22,640
Speaker 8: The song that he did Ain't No Stopping Us now

1514
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:23,920
Speaker 8: is the black right?

1515
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:29,559
Speaker 3: But I mean the song that we did with uh

1516
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 3: she's singing on who did Danna also managed that song,

1517
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:38,120
Speaker 3: that song that's on his Yeah, yeah, that's a good

1518
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 3: That song.

1519
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:42,000
Speaker 1: Was initially love of my Life.

1520
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would have been where love my Life was

1521
01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:49,200
Speaker 3: when things fall apart man then sort of twust the side.

1522
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:53,120
Speaker 3: Well yeah, when Common decided he liked what you know

1523
01:18:53,200 --> 01:18:55,080
Speaker 3: is love my Life, then we had to give this.

1524
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:57,639
Speaker 1: I did not want to give up that song.

1525
01:18:57,720 --> 01:18:59,600
Speaker 9: I just have a question real quick for we go,

1526
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 9: so Claire Fisher, I was always curious just to hear

1527
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:07,800
Speaker 9: from another string arranger, like what you thought about his

1528
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 9: arrangements and what made him like.

1529
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:14,479
Speaker 3: I always put so whenever I give him something his

1530
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:17,800
Speaker 3: words are he would always say make it like.

1531
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 1: No but you When we did what's the Dylan song?

1532
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:25,240
Speaker 1: When we did Can't Stop This theory? Oh my god,

1533
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:25,760
Speaker 1: I know we did.

1534
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:27,160
Speaker 4: We did a lot of nice records.

1535
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:28,840
Speaker 1: I think I think I might have went in the

1536
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:32,679
Speaker 1: room and cried a little bit. I mean it was hard.

1537
01:19:33,160 --> 01:19:35,120
Speaker 1: It was really hard to mix that song.

1538
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:37,519
Speaker 3: There was one point when me and Russ started crying

1539
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:39,600
Speaker 3: because I mean, the thing is like we keep it

1540
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:40,640
Speaker 3: keeps to remind.

1541
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:42,080
Speaker 1: You that Dyl is no longer here. Dylan is no

1542
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:42,599
Speaker 1: longer here.

1543
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 3: And then like I was just like, all right, I

1544
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:49,479
Speaker 3: don't want to hear, I told I told Russ like

1545
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 3: I don't want to hear what Larry did because I

1546
01:19:52,280 --> 01:19:54,640
Speaker 3: know that when them strings get added, it's going to

1547
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:57,920
Speaker 3: make it even sadder. So I was just like, call

1548
01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:00,519
Speaker 3: me forty five minutes before you want to print the

1549
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 3: final and then I'll come and listen to it.

1550
01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:05,599
Speaker 4: But that like, that's why some of those records were

1551
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:07,800
Speaker 4: so great though, you know, I mean, you guys weren't

1552
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:11,680
Speaker 4: afraid of feelings and you know, I mean, and they

1553
01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:15,200
Speaker 4: were selling them to you know. I mean, it was

1554
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:17,640
Speaker 4: really a nice time in my life. You gave me

1555
01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:20,880
Speaker 4: a nice renaissance, you.

1556
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:24,000
Speaker 1: Know, you gave us a home. Yeah, that's that's you know.

1557
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 3: Once again, Well, ladies on behalf of like Fan Cicolo

1558
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:36,360
Speaker 3: and half a Bill and Sugar Steve quest Lovest Love Supreme.

1559
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:45,080
Speaker 3: We will see you on the next go round. Thank you, West.

1560
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:52,880
Speaker 3: Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For more

1561
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,920
Speaker 3: podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1562
01:20:57,400 --> 01:20:59,080
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.