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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm open to stuff I've never told you productive of

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Speaker 2: by Heart Radio, and today we are starting off the

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Speaker 2: new year with a guest episode. This might be the

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Speaker 2: second guest episode or the first one. Either way, we're

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Speaker 2: doing some episodes where we have guested on other shows

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Speaker 2: because the new year is a busy time, the holidays

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Speaker 2: are a busy time. But also this was just a

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Speaker 2: really great conversation and one that you all know we

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Speaker 2: like talking about so over on Tech Stuff, Jonathan Strickland,

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Speaker 2: who has been working on that show for many, many years,

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Speaker 2: is stepping back from the mic and in that he

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Speaker 2: wanted to have a bunch of people from the Stuff

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Speaker 2: Show as we called them around here, the kind of

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Speaker 2: original house stuffwork shows. And he asked us for a topic,

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Speaker 2: and we were really scratching our heads to do something

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Speaker 2: that wasn't completely depressing at the end of the year,

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Speaker 2: because a lot of stuff and tech is in a

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Speaker 2: lot of tumult, I will say. And we decided to

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Speaker 2: go with cozy gaming.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because we've talked about it a lot. We love

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Speaker 3: this subject in itself, and he has some really great suggestions.

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Speaker 3: Though I love getting new suggestions.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it was really cool. As I suspected, we all

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Speaker 2: had pretty different stories around it and different suggestions. This

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Speaker 2: conversation went all around, all over the place, and we

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Speaker 2: didn't even touch on all the points in the outline,

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Speaker 2: so just it was a great conversation. It was really

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Speaker 2: cool to hear all these different perspectives and to get

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Speaker 2: all of these good suggestions. So yes, thank you so

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Speaker 2: much to Jonathan over at tech Stuff. Thank you to

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Speaker 2: Tari who is the producer and had to deal with

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Speaker 2: a lot of technical difficulties on our end, which was

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Speaker 2: I guess kind of the joke for a show like

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Speaker 2: tech Stuff, but we came in like, Tari, can you

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Speaker 2: help us? We struggling, But she's amazing, So thanks to

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Speaker 2: the both of them so much. But yeah, please enjoy

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Speaker 2: this episode we did with tech Stuff on Cozy Game.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there,

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Speaker 4: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host Jonathan Strickland.

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Speaker 4: I'm an executive producer with iHeart Podcasts and how the

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Speaker 4: tech are you? Yes, our cavalcade of special guests continues today.

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Speaker 4: My dear friend and next door neighbor. Back when we

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Speaker 4: were working at Pont City Market. Annie and her co

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Speaker 4: host Samantha from Stuff Mom Never Told You are here.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having us. This is very exciting.

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Speaker 1: I love that we finally get to work together.

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Speaker 3: It's been years since we've been in the same network,

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Speaker 3: and now I get to officially work with you.

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Speaker 1: Amazing. I'm so excited.

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Speaker 4: I'm excited too, like I've seen Samanth that we've met

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Speaker 4: in person a couple of times, but we have never

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Speaker 4: had a chance to work on a show together. I

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Speaker 4: will say. I was listening to Stuff Mom Never Told

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Speaker 4: You recently with I think it was Joey who was

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Speaker 4: on talking about dating in New York, and it made

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Speaker 4: me laugh so hard because Joey's younger than my marriage is.

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Speaker 4: I'm in my twenty eighth year of being married and

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Speaker 4: so listening to like the trials and tribulations of dating

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Speaker 4: in the modern age. I was sitting there thinking about

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Speaker 4: back before I was married and what dating was like.

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Speaker 4: And the funny thing is I met my partner online,

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Speaker 4: but it was in a telnet chat room, which anyone

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Speaker 4: out there who knows what a telnet chat room is

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Speaker 4: welcome to being old.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing. I really kind of want that story.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 4: Oh, we'll tell you why you have me on your show,

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Speaker 4: and I'll tell you all about it. Because here's the thing,

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Speaker 4: I got no tech stuffs left to talk about this

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Speaker 4: kind of stuff. I'm out on January tenth. January tenth,

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Speaker 4: I am gone. And just so, just so y'all know,

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't think you even are aware of

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Speaker 4: who the new hosts are, but certainly my listeners aren't

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Speaker 4: because I haven't told them yet. That's going to be

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Speaker 4: a New Year reveal, So it does. Have you not

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Speaker 4: gotten an email? Oh no, you're starting off with a

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Speaker 4: Chad GBT savior or demon demon? No you know already.

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Speaker 3: H No.

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Speaker 4: Today you brought forth a topic that I was so

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Speaker 4: excited by because, as it you discovered once our notes

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Speaker 4: started to fill out, it turns out I'm a big

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Speaker 4: fan of this particular genre of video games. You wanted

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Speaker 4: to talk about cozy games.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, indeed, And I think this is gonna be

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Speaker 2: really fun because I think we're all coming at this

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Speaker 2: from different experiences, so we're really excited to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: One of the reasons we wanted to talk about it

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Speaker 2: is one because Samantha's had like an amazing cozy game journey,

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Speaker 2: but too. As you kind of alluded to with chat GPT,

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Speaker 2: we were trying to think of a tech topic that

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Speaker 2: wasn't going to be very depressing, and it was a

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Speaker 2: little difficult because right now is a high stress time

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Speaker 2: a lot of us maybe are looking for some relief,

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Speaker 2: especially as the year comes to a close. So we

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Speaker 2: thought cozy gaming, that's that's a good topic.

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Speaker 4: Much better than let's talk about Elon Musk. So I

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Speaker 4: appreciate it.

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Speaker 3: Right, I mean, we definitely went in to talk about

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Speaker 3: we could talk about de fakes, oh no, that's really sad.

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Speaker 1: We could talk about, you know, all those other AI ventures.

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Speaker 3: But coming back to cozy games, which is something that

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Speaker 3: I have found joy in in the last few years

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Speaker 3: and really have had Annie and even our super produce

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Speaker 3: Christina navigate me through this world because gaming is not

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Speaker 3: something that I would typically would say is something that

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Speaker 3: I do up until recently, and the cozy gaming world

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Speaker 3: really has made it so much more welcoming, I think,

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Speaker 3: especially for people, for marginalized people who are jumping into

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Speaker 3: gaming world.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, and even old fogies like me like I reach

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Speaker 4: a certain point where my hand eye coordination isn't what

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Speaker 4: it used to be. I don't have the twitch skills

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Speaker 4: of the youngins out there. I was raised on games

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Speaker 4: like the pac Man's you know, and the Galagh is

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Speaker 4: not so much the call of duties. And also I

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Speaker 4: never really like competition. I always preferred collaborative and cooperative games.

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Speaker 4: Even with board games, I much prefer that style. So

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Speaker 4: cozy games speaks to me because I like an environment

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Speaker 4: that fosters joy and wants all the participants to experience

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Speaker 4: that joy, not joy that one person feels at the

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Speaker 4: expense of everybody else. Not that there's anything necessarily wrong

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Speaker 4: with that kind of gaming, it just doesn't appeal to.

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Speaker 2: Me right, And I know all the gamers in my

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Speaker 2: life enjoyed cozy games, whereas people who like cozy games,

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Speaker 2: the same isn't true about non cozy games. So I

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Speaker 2: feel like they're very welcoming to people. And I guess

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Speaker 2: that brings us to the question, just to start off,

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Speaker 2: what is cozy gaming. I know you've talked about it before,

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Speaker 2: but we like to have a good solid definition here,

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Speaker 2: and people disagree. People like to disagree about what exactly

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Speaker 2: it is, but they're often described as something that's somewhat

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Speaker 2: mindless but still involved. They usually don't have violence or

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Speaker 2: competition in the same way non cozy games have them.

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Speaker 2: Players can't really lose or feel guilty about letting someone

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Speaker 2: down like in a multiplayer game. They usually have soothing

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Speaker 2: in pretty graphics and music, fairly simple task and controls.

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Speaker 2: They're inclusive and safe for all. They're low stress and

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Speaker 2: sort of a vibe feeling, and after you play them

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Speaker 2: you generally feel calm and happy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's some overlap with the genre of casual games,

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Speaker 4: but I feel like the term casual games is almost

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Speaker 4: like a kind of like it's like shade right, Like

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Speaker 4: people will quote unquote real gamers will dismiss something that

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Speaker 4: falls into casual games. And certainly there are bad casual

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Speaker 4: games out there. There are bad games in every genre.

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Speaker 4: It would be disingenuous to say every game that falls

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Speaker 4: into the cozy or casual bucket is great, but the

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Speaker 4: same is true for any other genre as well. And

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Speaker 4: I think the quote unquote true gamers, Well, there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of air quotes I'm doing, which is weird for

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Speaker 4: an audio podcast, but I think that they would paint

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Speaker 4: all of them with the same brush, and I think

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Speaker 4: that's unfortunate, it's reductive. It's not surprising for at least

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Speaker 4: certain segments of the gaming culture will get into more

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Speaker 4: of that later as well. But yeah, I think there's

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Speaker 4: certainly a real place for this, particularly in a world

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Speaker 4: where people are trying to find ways to reduce anxiety,

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Speaker 4: to be able to take their mind off things that

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Speaker 4: might be troubling them while not engaging in an activity

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Speaker 4: that is just inherently harmful to themselves.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's interesting because when we have these

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Speaker 3: conversations about gaming in general, the biggest money maker out

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Speaker 3: there and people really want to discredit it is mobile gaming.

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Speaker 3: And that was one of the big conversations we had

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Speaker 3: when we talked about cozy gaming and what they want

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Speaker 3: to qualify as true gaming. And again you kind of

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Speaker 3: talked about this with the real gamers quote unquote, but

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Speaker 3: the level of competition that's there, But when you look

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Speaker 3: at what is making a dent in capitalism, which you

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Speaker 3: know that counts for more for anything else, right, it

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Speaker 3: is mobile gaming. It is the number one money maker

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Speaker 3: for that gaming industry. So it's interesting have this conversation

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Speaker 3: and the amount of women and marginalize people who actually

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Speaker 3: have access to something that is easily there and really

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Speaker 3: great to take your mind off things is playing five

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Speaker 3: minutes of what used to be snake y'all remember that game?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you know, like those types of games that

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Speaker 3: have come back a little bit, and it helped with

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Speaker 3: dementia and help with like everyday warplay. It's actually a

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Speaker 3: really great way to go, but people want to dismiss

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Speaker 3: it so quickly because they don't want to say this

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Speaker 3: is true gaming.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and yet these are the games that often can

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Speaker 4: go viral across all demographics. Like I wouldn't necessarily say

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Speaker 4: that Wordle falls into the category of cozy game, but

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Speaker 4: certainly a casual game. And I don't know if you

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Speaker 4: guys remember this, and I apologize for guys. I don't

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Speaker 4: know if you folks have remembered this, But about four

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Speaker 4: years ago, there was this little bug that was going

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Speaker 4: around and like a lot of us were like stuck

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Speaker 4: at home, and then it seemed like this game called

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Speaker 4: Wordle brought everybody together in a way. And back then,

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Speaker 4: before it was x X was this thing called Twitter,

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Speaker 4: which wasn't terrible. I mean it was bad, but it

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Speaker 4: wasn't as bad. And I just remember, like so many

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Speaker 4: of my friends would their Twitter status would just be

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Speaker 4: their Wordle score for the day, and like I remember,

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Speaker 4: for the first like three weeks, I was like, I

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Speaker 4: don't know what the hell these boxes mean.

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Speaker 1: I had that moment a lot.

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Speaker 3: And I will say, you know what, for those out there,

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Speaker 3: this was a pickup line one dude used to a

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Speaker 3: group of us talking about Wordle. So it opens up

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Speaker 3: so much when you talk about these mobile games.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's a great unifier.

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Speaker 3: It does.

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Speaker 2: And that's kind of going back to what you said

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Speaker 2: about preferring those kind of cooperative, collaborative games. A lot

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Speaker 2: of these are really fun because when the pandemic happened,

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Speaker 2: we were looking for both stress reliefs but also some companionship,

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Speaker 2: some way to connect to other people, and these games

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Speaker 2: were great for that. Yeah, you go on Twitter and

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Speaker 2: see someone's were score and you're like, oh, Like it

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Speaker 2: was just a really fun way when we couldn't hang

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Speaker 2: out in person necessarily and share these experiences. And I

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Speaker 2: think that is a big part of cozy games as well.

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Speaker 2: I am kind of shy, so I usually played cozy

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Speaker 2: games by myself, but it is a big part for

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Speaker 2: some people that you can connect with other people online

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Speaker 2: in this way.

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Speaker 4: Well, And even though I'm an extrovert, I am like you.

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Speaker 4: I often for most most of my cozy gaming, I'm

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Speaker 4: playing the single player version of that. I mean, I

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Speaker 4: love collaboration, but there's so few games out there that

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Speaker 4: I connect with that are also collaborative and I feel

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Speaker 4: like I'm welcomed into that community. Sometimes you get into

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Speaker 4: a game pretty late, and it's like if you're the

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Speaker 4: first new friend in an established group of friends that

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Speaker 4: have been established for like ten years, and they're all

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Speaker 4: joking and using references that the rest of the group

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Speaker 4: knows and you do not, and you're like, well, this

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Speaker 4: is a mistake. I should probably go somewhere else. And

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Speaker 4: that's kind of how I feel for some of these

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Speaker 4: online communities. And it's no shade on them either. They're

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Speaker 4: they're having fun with their their established communities. It's just

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Speaker 4: sometimes it can be hard to make an inroad. But

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Speaker 4: the games themselves, the things that make a cozy game cozy,

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Speaker 4: that welcoming sense of joy, that's something that I certainly

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Speaker 4: could use more of in my life. And I love

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Speaker 4: that we have lots of different examples that we'll talk about,

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Speaker 4: and you know, not that much crossover, although there is

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Speaker 4: one game on Annie's list that I have to a

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Speaker 4: billion percent back up. But it's also the game that

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Speaker 4: you can't talk about because to really enjoy it, you

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Speaker 4: need to go in knowing nothing about it. Gone Home

248
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Speaker 4: is the game. Oh yes, so good, but you can't.

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Speaker 4: Don't don't look anything up, don't read about it, just

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Speaker 4: play it. Because I cried at that game. That one

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Speaker 4: made me cry. But yeah, I want to. I want

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Speaker 4: to chat about some of the examples we have here.

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Speaker 4: Like you you have some of the popular examples with

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Speaker 4: Animal Crossing. I mean that one went crazy popular in

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Speaker 4: the pandemic. It came out just as the pandemic was

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Speaker 4: creating lockdown, and like it was like it became a

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Speaker 4: pop culture moment in circles that I follow at any rate.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, oh yes, it came out at like the

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Speaker 2: right time. And I think this is actually a great

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Speaker 2: segue into talking about how we all got into cozy games,

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Speaker 2: because I remember when that came out. Animal Crossing New

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Speaker 2: Horizons is one of the big examples people give for

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Speaker 2: cozy games. The other one is Stardy Valley. But I

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Speaker 2: kind of going back to your original point. I didn't

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Speaker 2: start playing Animal Crossing until two years later, and it

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Speaker 2: was because Samantha was like, you got to try these

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Speaker 2: cozy games.

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Speaker 1: So I was trying to use her for fruit.

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Speaker 4: Oh of course, yeah. I mean those turnips aren't going

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Speaker 4: to grow themselves, right.

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Speaker 2: Samantha was using me, But she's been my real like

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Speaker 2: open door into this world. So I thought we could

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Speaker 2: all talk about how our experiences and how we got

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Speaker 2: into it, starting with you, Samantha.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I have to put a big caveat on the

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Speaker 3: games that I play. I am not really good with

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Speaker 3: my hand eye coordination, as you were talking about, is

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Speaker 3: not great. I am that one person that when we

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Speaker 3: play Mario Kart that I continuously fall off the.

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Speaker 1: Track Like that is my RaSE, and you're gonna know

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Speaker 1: about it.

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Speaker 3: Because I'm like, I'm off, I fell again, I'm off again, and.

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Speaker 1: I'm always last place.

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Speaker 3: So for me, trying to just stay on track is

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Speaker 3: my thing, and that's that's kind of the theme through everything.

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Speaker 3: So with Animal Crossing, even though I love the fishing part,

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Speaker 3: I love the collecting and swimming, I just did it recently.

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Speaker 3: The new thing right now with the Christmas being around,

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Speaker 3: which we just had an episode about holiday themed animal crossing,

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Speaker 3: you can build a snowman.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh wow, okay, I want to do this.

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Speaker 3: I have dropped every every snowball off the edge of

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Speaker 3: something or crashed it into a house, and I'm very

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Speaker 3: upset about this. I want you to know, but like

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Speaker 3: I'd love the trying to find the peoples to come

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Speaker 3: to my island does feel like I'm starting a bit

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Speaker 3: of a cult. And then also just keeping a campground,

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Speaker 3: like like that's my whole experience is to collect all

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Speaker 3: the fish, collect all the fossils, which I've done y'all,

300
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,840
Speaker 3: but I haven't gotten all the art pieces. I have

301
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Speaker 3: any made sure to brag to me about that. My

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00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,080
Speaker 3: island is kind of sad because it still again looks

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Speaker 3: like a campground. But I'm like, that's what i want.

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Speaker 3: I want to be a retreat into the campground, not like.

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Speaker 4: Not like, hey, let's turn this into a bustling metropolis.

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Speaker 4: Is it animal crossing where the snowman will criticize you

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Speaker 4: if you don't get the balls just right?

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Speaker 3: Yes? No?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yes?

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Speaker 2: Is it trying to give me like, oh man, it'll

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Speaker 2: be like you tried your best.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the judgment so like if the head is too

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Speaker 4: small or too large in relation to the body, and

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Speaker 4: the snowman's like, what are you even doing?

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Speaker 3: See yeah now I'm now I'm maybe more upset and

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Speaker 3: I haven't even done it. I can't even get it

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Speaker 3: together to make one.

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Speaker 4: So I haven't played Animal Crossing. What are the YouTube

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00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,040
Speaker 4: video channels I watch outside? Xbox did a whole thing

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Speaker 4: about it. When I saw that, it made me laugh

321
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,040
Speaker 4: so hard. They're talking about how you know certain games

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Speaker 4: that that neg you when you when you when you

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00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,600
Speaker 4: when you mess up a basic thing in the game.

324
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Speaker 4: But like, legitimately this is challenging to dude to get

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Speaker 4: it just right because it's hard to judge in the

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Speaker 4: game when you're at that level. But overall, the Animal

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Speaker 4: Crossing certainly checks all those cozy boxes. So so you

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Speaker 4: you got into that, that was kind of your your

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Speaker 4: journey into cozy gaming.

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Speaker 3: One of the things that happened is part my partner

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Speaker 3: is a gamer and loves to play games, and he's

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Speaker 3: been trying to get me into gaming in general.

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Speaker 1: So Overcooked was this beginning with me. Huge mistake.

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Speaker 3: Again, I'm not competitive yelling at me about cooking something

335
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Speaker 3: just right.

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00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,119
Speaker 1: Yes, all all over the place.

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00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,359
Speaker 3: We did not fight. I will give you that. So

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00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,680
Speaker 3: our relationship is strong. I've determined that. But he then

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00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 3: like I said, let's try animal crossing. I think you'll

340
00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,280
Speaker 3: like this, and it did. The trying to find mind

341
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,199
Speaker 3: the again, like finding the biggest fish that's worth the

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00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,520
Speaker 3: most amount of money. Let's do this, getting the singer

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Speaker 3: to come onto our island.

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Speaker 4: Love it.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you know, Like you said, you

346
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,000
Speaker 3: haven't played this, Jonathan.

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Speaker 4: I haven't, but I've I listened to a lot of

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Speaker 4: shows of people who have played it, so I feel

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00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:23,040
Speaker 4: kind of like I've semi experienced elements of the game

350
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Speaker 4: just through osmosis.

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Speaker 1: I think you should try it.

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Speaker 3: I would be interested to see what kind of village

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Speaker 3: island you create, Like I have a good friend who's

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Speaker 3: made his entire island goth, but like chic Goth. I

355
00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:41,399
Speaker 3: don't understand how that happened. He has displays everywhere and Annie, well, Annie,

356
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,040
Speaker 3: you need to talk about your island obviously.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So basically what happened was Samantha wins.

358
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Speaker 4: Any story that starts with basically what happened.

359
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,000
Speaker 2: Basically Samantha went from like, I'm not a gamer to

360
00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 2: hear all these games you need to play, and she

361
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,040
Speaker 2: was like, we're going to do an episode. It's research based,

362
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,280
Speaker 2: so you need to go play these cozy games. And

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00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,199
Speaker 2: she gave me all these recommendations. One of them was

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Speaker 2: Animal Crossing. And the funny thing about me is that

365
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,680
Speaker 2: I'm a completionist. I want those achievements. So I knew

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Speaker 2: that's why I didn't start playing Animal Crossing, because I

367
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 2: knew it never ends really, so I was like, I'm

368
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 2: just going to be trapped in some hellscape where I'm

369
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,919
Speaker 2: checking the mail, like I don't want this, but she

370
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,960
Speaker 2: convinced me to do it, and I of course made

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Speaker 2: my very Star Wars scened. It's got a Star Scened song,

372
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,280
Speaker 2: it's got a Star Wars flag, everybody says Star Wars slogans.

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Speaker 2: But because I'm such a completionist, I completed that damn

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Speaker 2: museum and I quit. I'm done.

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Speaker 4: This is no further.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But it's just really funny because I know i'd

377
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Speaker 2: like have the exact opposite experience with cozy games, where

378
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Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I'll play my like horror game a

379
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 2: million times and it's great, but a cozy game. I'm

380
00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,640
Speaker 2: so stressed because I where's the end?

381
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I hear you. Yeah, there's certain ones where you

382
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,640
Speaker 4: can theoretically reach the end of the content, but even

383
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 4: those occasionally will get massive updates and it will you know.

384
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 4: It's it's like the Mafia. Just when you thought you

385
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,639
Speaker 4: were out that you get pulled right back in. And

386
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,239
Speaker 4: so I have a whole bunch of games that are

387
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,160
Speaker 4: listed on this section, but I'm just going to talk

388
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,880
Speaker 4: about one and maybe mention the others when we chat

389
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,359
Speaker 4: about some of our favorites. But Starduck Valley is the

390
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,160
Speaker 4: game they got me into cozy games. Now. Starduw Valley

391
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,119
Speaker 4: has some elements to it that also include like if

392
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 4: you're going into the mines, there's combat and stuff, but

393
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 4: that's not the prime focus of the game. That's one element.

394
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,399
Speaker 4: Most of it is about setting up a farm and

395
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 4: creating relationships with all the villagers that live in the

396
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 4: little town and maybe even finding yourself a match. There

397
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:57,000
Speaker 4: are certain members of the town who are romancible. You can,

398
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,119
Speaker 4: if you're a jerk, get into admitted a relationship and

399
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 4: then ruin it by flirting with somebody else. It's it's

400
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 4: such fun. Concerned Ape is the name of the guy

401
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 4: or the handle of the guy who created it. He's

402
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 4: got another game that's that's been in development for years

403
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 4: now that I am highly anticipated, called Haunted Chocolateer. Cannot

404
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,919
Speaker 4: wait to see that. It sounds like it's going to

405
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 4: have a lot of sort of shared DNA the Stardoo Valley.

406
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,239
Speaker 4: But yeah, Starduo Valley. I literally have more than one

407
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 4: hundred hours of game time in that game because I

408
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,959
Speaker 4: would start over and try different things like well, what

409
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 4: if I start a relationship with this village or instead

410
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 4: of that one? What happens? Can I fix him? The

411
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 4: answer to that last question is no. Just like in

412
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 4: real life, like I had never done any video game modding,

413
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 4: I've been playing games since I was a kid. And

414
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 4: I'm fifty. So when I say when I was a kid,

415
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 4: I was playing games like River Raid, which by the way,

416
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 4: developed by a woman, Carol Shaw, phenomenal game that was

417
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 4: on the Atari to six hundred. But I've been playing

418
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 4: games since I was a kid. It was the cozy

419
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 4: games I started playing really with Stardu Valley. I got

420
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 4: to the point where I was modding it and which

421
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 4: added new villagers and new areas to explore, and just

422
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 4: recently this past year, Concerned Ape released a huge update

423
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,679
Speaker 4: to the game to make it one point six. So

424
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 4: even in a game like that where at first it

425
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 4: feels like there's a beginning, middle, and end, and then

426
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 4: you can continue past the end but the story's pretty

427
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,400
Speaker 4: much over, it's never a guarantee because some of those

428
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 4: cozy developers just figure out, hey, I want to add

429
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 4: a little more to that world I created, and next

430
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 4: thing you know, you're right back in it. And it's

431
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 4: crazy too, because of course the sale in the case

432
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 4: of Starduo Valley has already been made. It's not one

433
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 4: of those games where it's like a subscription based thing

434
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 4: where you've you know, you're paying every month to play

435
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 4: this game. You purchased it already. Concerned Ape has no

436
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,120
Speaker 4: obligation to keep developing this title, and yet he continues

437
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 4: to do it. So uh, a true hero, I would,

438
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 4: I would say, But yeah, that was the game that

439
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 4: pulled me into it, and since then, there are countless

440
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 4: games I would argue fall into the cozy category that

441
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 4: I have, I have explored and I can't wait to

442
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 4: talk more about coziness. But my producer is holding up

443
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,640
Speaker 4: a knife and pointing it at me, So I think

444
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 4: we need to take a quick ad break or else

445
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 4: things are going to get an awful lot less cozy.

446
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 4: All right, we're back, and my producer has given me

447
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 4: the friends symbol of smashing two wrists together, So I

448
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 4: think we all know what that means. It means it's

449
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 4: time to get back to talking about cozy games.

450
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: Never part of gold.

451
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 3: But yeah, no, I was wondering because Stardu Valley, Animal

452
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 3: Crossing and I have another game, Cozy Grove are all

453
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 3: real time games I have, like partner loves Started Valley again,

454
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 3: our executive producer Christina Loves Started Valley. If you let

455
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 3: them go, do they like start like all their food rots?

456
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 3: Does that all that happen? Does all the crops and

457
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 3: all that they've worked so hard?

458
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 1: Do they go away?

459
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 4: Crops will stay ready for harvesting until you harvest them

460
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 4: or if the season changes. So each season is twenty

461
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 4: eight days long, and so once once spring turns to summer,

462
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 4: for example, any spring crops you had that were either

463
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 4: still in the growing phase or were unharvested, because you know,

464
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 4: some crops take longer to grow than others if you

465
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 4: don't plant it out properly. I mean there are people

466
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 4: who make spreadsheets with this stuff. I never got that

467
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 4: tactical with it. Let's say you plant something that takes

468
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 4: you know, eight days to grow, but you did it

469
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 4: on three days before the end of the season. Well,

470
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 4: then once the first day of summer starts, all of

471
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 4: those crops are now dead and you have to clear

472
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 4: them with a scythe and then and start over with

473
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 4: summer crops because spring crops won't survive into summer. With

474
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 4: a few exceptions, there's some crops that do span two

475
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 4: different seasons, so if you plant them early in season one,

476
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 4: they'll go all the way through season two, and some

477
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 4: of them will continually generate vegetables or fruit, depending upon

478
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 4: what the crop is. So like corn, corn keeps producing,

479
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 4: but if it's something like a melon, once you harvest it,

480
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 4: that's gone. You have to plant something new in its place,

481
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 4: or just say that's it. So the nice thing is

482
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 4: about this game is that you can be obsessive and

483
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 4: use spreadsheets and everything to plan everything out. There's nothing

484
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 4: wrong with that. That's a legitimate form of gaming. Or

485
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 4: you can be like me, where you're like, whoop, see

486
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 4: Daisy shouldn't have planted that then could have held on

487
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 4: to it till the next year. But whatever, it's summertime.

488
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 4: Let's plant some other stuff. And that's what I love

489
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 4: about the game is that there's not a right way

490
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 4: to play it. I mean, you can mend Max, but

491
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 4: I'm it's just not that type of player. I've never

492
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 4: been a men maxer, so I don't sweat it and

493
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 4: it helps me a lot.

494
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 3: Okay, you know, I think when we talk about games

495
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 3: now started Valley, Yeah, they had the seasons, it's not

496
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 3: like real time seasons. Yeah, but games like Animal Crossing.

497
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 3: Specifically with Animal Crossing, it gives you a new venture

498
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 3: because you can visit each other's islands. I still love

499
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 3: the Elijah Wood story about Animal Crossing. That really pushed

500
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 3: it to an element of like, oh there's a celebrity,

501
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 3: let's go let's see if we can get him to

502
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 3: come to our island type of conversation. But it really

503
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 3: opens up where during that pandemic era where we were

504
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 3: all quarantined or trying to people were able to actually

505
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 3: still have fun, Like you don't have to be right

506
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 3: next to each other I have visited Annie's Island.

507
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: I haven't visited recently. I need to see the finished product.

508
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: You can do dream.

509
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 3: States where you go and visit people's island without interacting

510
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 3: with people, but it's actually people's islands. Like this level

511
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 3: of gaming is such a different, unique perspective. It could

512
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 3: be dangerous if you look at a different way. But

513
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 3: wind and Appropriately is so fun because I have brought

514
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 3: people back into animal crossing just like any after the fact,

515
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 3: because I am real slow in catching up with the

516
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 3: times and like what the fads are and I get

517
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 3: to interact with them, and they get to show off

518
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 3: their island, even if we're not right next to each other.

519
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 3: Like It's a fantastic way that this level of community

520
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 3: is able to attach to a game like this, And

521
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 3: I think that's a big part of what makes these

522
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 3: appealing is that safety, that safety that it kind of brings,

523
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 3: as well as that soft, warm feeling that we talk

524
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 3: about when it comes to obviously cozy. So this is

525
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 3: such a great opening for so many people who just

526
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 3: want to occupy some time once again without having to

527
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 3: remember how awful things can be or.

528
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 4: Agree well, and it gives you a chance to see

529
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 4: into other people's approach to creativity, which I love. I

530
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 4: think of it equivalent to there's a concept within tech

531
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 4: about open source, right, this idea of you are creating

532
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 4: something and you're leaving it open for other people to

533
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 4: be able to see how you're doing it. They can

534
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 4: actually contribute to the development. In some cases, they are

535
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 4: free to take what you did and build upon that,

536
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 4: maybe in a brand new way. And I feel like

537
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 4: elements of that philosophy are inherent in some of these

538
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 4: cozy games as well, where it is this openness. And

539
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 4: one of the best things about open source, in my opinion,

540
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 4: is that it allows for people who otherwise never would

541
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 4: have been able to participate in that particular project to

542
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 4: take part in it, and the project benefits from their participation.

543
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 4: Because if you have a closed project, you might have

544
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 4: some really smart people working on that they're really really smart,

545
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 4: but you're limited to the people who are in the room.

546
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 4: When it's open, it's practically unlimited. I mean, as long

547
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 4: as someone has access, they can contribute, and it doesn't

548
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 4: matter how big that room, that closed room was, you're

549
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 4: still going to find the best ideas in that open environment.

550
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 4: Same sort of thing with this approach to cozy games

551
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 4: where you're going to see stuff that Whenever I see

552
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 4: any of these videos of people who have meticulously crafted

553
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 4: their eyelids and animal crossing, I just sit there and think, like,

554
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 4: how many hours does that represent? I mean, it's phenomenal.

555
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 4: You've done an amazing job. I don't think of it

556
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 4: as a waste of time. I think of it as

557
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 4: an incredible expression that you took these tools that were

558
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 4: meant to be a game and you turned it into art.

559
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 4: That's kind of phenomenal, and you're sharing it for free

560
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 4: with people, or maybe not for free, maybe they got

561
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 4: to bring a turn up or two, but they still

562
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 4: get to go see it.

563
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: Yes, And I think there is absolutely a reason why

564
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: they're so popular and why they are so popular right now.

565
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: And the pandemic was a big one, and during the

566
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 2: pandemic they really took off because we were looking for

567
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: this way to connect to find stress relief. And that

568
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: has translated to so many new games and so many

569
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 2: of them that are so interesting and new, which we'll

570
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 2: talk about, but also a lot of money. Like I've

571
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: estimated three hundred and twenty billion dollars by twenty twenty six,

572
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 2: and a lot more gamers three point two billion gamers

573
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 2: worldwide by the end of twenty twenty three. That's a

574
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 2: lot of people. And with that, coinciding with the rise

575
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 2: of cozy games, we've seen the rise of women and

576
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: non binary people and trans people who are developers. I

577
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: haven't found anything that's a direct link, but it's pretty

578
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: telling that we're seeing a lot more of these games,

579
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: and then we're seeing a lot more women and non

580
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: binary people and trans people in the development space. Because

581
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,719
Speaker 2: we also have talked to some developers on our show

582
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 2: who are saying, you know, it's easier to get in

583
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 2: in the cozy gaming space as an indie developer who

584
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 2: doesn't have a big studio backing her. And so I

585
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: think when we're talking about that, when we're talking about

586
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: people in the game world, this creativity of seeing what

587
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 2: someone does on their island, but also the creativity of

588
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 2: having more developers in the space and seeing what comes

589
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 2: of that. I've just really really enjoyed. I love seeing

590
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: a game that doesn't have the traditional like this is

591
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 2: victory model. I love seeing the different ways people are

592
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 2: redefining games. It's just so fun because games are such

593
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 2: a great storytelling medium, or just even a pretty space

594
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: where it feels nice and safe and you can connect

595
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: with people that way. There's just so much vast fertile

596
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 2: ground for new types of games. So I have really

597
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 2: loved that coming out of this.

598
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there has been a real convergence, both

599
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 4: with the rise of the popularity of cozy games and

600
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 4: the welcome trend of more women, non binary and trans

601
00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 4: game developers getting traction in a space that traditionally has

602
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 4: favored men. I mentioned River Raid being made by Carol Shaw,

603
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 4: and of course that's not the only example of an

604
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 4: early game developed by a woman. There's Women have been

605
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 4: involved in game development since games have been a thing, right,

606
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 4: whether you're talking about video games or just games in general,

607
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 4: but more often than not, their stories were kind of

608
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 4: ignored or just simply not not addressed. While you would

609
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 4: hear about, you know, Nolan Bushnell or something, you know,

610
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 4: you hear about all the the men, especially the business

611
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 4: leaders responsible for establishing game studios and that sort of thing.

612
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 4: And I like the fact that that women and non

613
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 4: binary and trans game developers are having a moment, you know, like,

614
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 4: and I'm hoping it's just the beginning of a moment

615
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 4: that lasts from here on out, so that we're not

616
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 4: telling the same heterogeneous story over and over again. And

617
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 4: it's also nice to be able to talk about something

618
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 4: that isn't a terrible story, like toxic work culture at

619
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 4: a company like Ubisoft or Activision Blizzard, Like anyone who's

620
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 4: done any research into gaming, ultimately you're going to come

621
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 4: across those stories. The nice thing is it doesn't have

622
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 4: to be like that. It's not like that everywhere, and

623
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 4: there are stories of people who are in a safe

624
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 4: space to be creative and to develop games and to

625
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 4: create things that speak to a very wide audience. And

626
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 4: you know, I'm living proof, Like I'm a straight white

627
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 4: man who loves cozy games. It's not like these games

628
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 4: aren't meant for you so you can't play them. They're

629
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 4: so welcoming that even a demo like me gets to

630
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 4: go and play with everybody's toys and I love it.

631
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: Yes, And you know, when we first started talking about

632
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,239
Speaker 2: cozy games on Sminty, Samantha did all this research to

633
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 2: see like what's up here, and there was a lot

634
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: of like are women or is it more women playing

635
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 2: cozy games? And there was some research that suggested that,

636
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 2: but it was mostly like pretty small percentage wise. I

637
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 2: think it was just because the narrative has so long

638
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 2: been this is what a gamer is, but women, wait

639
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 2: a minute, they're playing this and they're playing mobile games,

640
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 2: and that goes into what we've been kind of alluding

641
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 2: to of that discussion of what's a real game and

642
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: what's a real gamer. And in my opinion, like I

643
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 2: read somebody wrote it like that's like saying somebody who

644
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,439
Speaker 2: reads a children's book and a different book, Like, they're

645
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 2: all books at the end of the day, they're all books. Yea,

646
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: Like why are we casting one is not a real

647
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 2: game or it's lesser, And oftentimes it's because it's seen

648
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 2: as something more feminine. There's like a lot of gender

649
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 2: essentialism of like, oh, it's more like social and empathetic,

650
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 2: that's more are for women. But plenty of women like

651
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 2: violent games too. I'm somebody who likes all kinds of games.

652
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I don't know why, Well, like I do

653
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 2: because on the show we do. But we always have

654
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 2: to gender things in this way. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's unnecessary, yeah, unnecessary.

655
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, no, Like anecdotally, like some of the creators

656
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 4: like the content creators that I follow, who are you know,

657
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 4: they're not developers, but they're players in the space. A

658
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 4: lot of the women that I follow, you know, they're

659
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 4: playing incredibly competitive you know, triple A title, violent games,

660
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 4: you know. And I find all the pigeonholing and stereotyping

661
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 4: to be really frustrating. It also does not help that

662
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 4: there are video game developers out there who are trying

663
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 4: to capitalize on a female audience, and so they're making

664
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 4: a game they think women will like, which is the

665
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 4: equivalent in the tech space of hey, let's make this

666
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 4: thing pink and then women will buy it. It is

667
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 4: the most insulting, reductive thing you can imagine. And those

668
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 4: are some of the games I would say are bad games.

669
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 4: They're not. Maybe the gameplay is fine, but the presentation

670
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 4: is so pandering and obvious and insulting that I can't

671
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 4: stand it. It's insincere, is what it really comes down to.

672
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 4: And I don't want that game, right.

673
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 3: And even though cozy gaming is not new, like the

674
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 3: term is fairly new obviously, and then the understanding and

675
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,760
Speaker 3: kind of the I guess industry in itself with people

676
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 3: trying to jump on board again like big corporations like

677
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 3: you were talking about, and I found it like really

678
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 3: reassuring that we see more and more independent companies coming

679
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 3: out because of games like this. I know you're gonna

680
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 3: mention one of the games that you love that I

681
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 3: haven't played yet. I'm gonna it's Unpacking. And the way

682
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 3: that it had developed was through a female, a women creator,

683
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 3: Rin Bryer, and she worked with an independent company in

684
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 3: Australia to make this happen. We see when things like this.

685
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 3: It won so many awards, it has baf does. It

686
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 3: has all these awards to it because it is one

687
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 3: of the biggest games out there, But it couldn't have

688
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 3: happened without it actually being developed with an independent gaming company.

689
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 3: And I think that's really important to talk about that

690
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 3: we are seeing more opportunities, Thank goodness because of this.

691
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 3: We had a creator on named Renee Gettens and loved her.

692
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 3: She was fantastic and she is a director of Stumbling

693
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 3: Cat Studios, which is an independent company, and she talked

694
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 3: about the struggles of releasing her own game, which by

695
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 3: the way, is Potions, and it's a really cool if

696
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 3: you like Stardo Valley that Potions was fantastic.

697
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 1: Did you play it okay? So good?

698
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 3: And she did such an amazing job in creating this

699
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 3: that the marketing part was kind of shaky and she

700
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 3: really had to push forward through outlets like TikTok in

701
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 3: order to have it out there. And I think she's

702
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 3: things fairly successful now, thank goodness. But like, it's independent

703
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 3: companies like this that really help create a better platform

704
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 3: and a better result in gaming through their companies.

705
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 4: I love hearing that a lot like that's got such

706
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 4: a nice contrast to some of the stories you hear

707
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 4: from the big established companies, where like there are women

708
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 4: who say, oh, my time at Activision Blizzard was actually great.

709
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 4: I got to work on some fantastic things, but there

710
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 4: was also this incredibly toxic culture that I also had

711
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 4: to deal with. And of course there are women who

712
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 4: said the toxic culture defined their entire experience of working

713
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 4: at these companies. So hearing about these chances for people

714
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 4: who don't identify as straight men having a chance to

715
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 4: be able to build in this space is really encouraging

716
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 4: to me, because I mean, there are entire experiences I

717
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 4: never would have had if it hadn't been for someone

718
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 4: taking a chance on a person who doesn't fall into

719
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 4: what is considered the mold of video game designer or

720
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 4: you know, video game director or whatever it may be.

721
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 4: And that's a real shame because you know, we would

722
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 4: be without some really kick ass games if that were

723
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 4: the case.

724
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: You said, you do potions. How far along are you?

725
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 4: You've got the beginning still, I'm still very early on,

726
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 4: still very early on, so but I want to. I'll

727
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 4: give a shout out now, but I'll probably shout her

728
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 4: out again later. There's a content creator who goes by

729
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 4: the handle gab Smolders. Gab Smolders. I found out about

730
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 4: gab Smolders because I'm an old guy. I was extremely

731
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 4: late to the game of discovering this one content creator

732
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 4: and not irishman top of them, mart Untilia is how

733
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 4: he started off all his videos. His name's Jack Septic Guy.

734
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 4: That's his handle, Jack Septic Guy. He's big, big, big

735
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 4: news like huge content creator. I came late to the

736
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 4: game found out his partner is gab Smolders and he

737
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 4: had her on for a streamer too, and I was like, Oh,

738
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 4: this person's really cool, and then they mentioned that she

739
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 4: had her own YouTube video channel, so I went and

740
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 4: subscribed to that, and so she started playing Potions and

741
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 4: I was like, yes, so I just haven't. I have

742
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 4: so little time and so much of it is dedicated

743
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 4: to Starduo Valley and Disney Dreamlight Valley that I have

744
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 4: only played a little bit of it.

745
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 2: Okay, well, okay, this is a good segue into a

746
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 2: couple of things for me.

747
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 4: Well, I know, Annie, you have to say something because

748
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 4: you started and then Tari found another knife. We took

749
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 4: the first one away from her. This one's bigger, So

750
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 4: I think we're going to take another quick break to

751
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 4: think our sponsors. Tari's staring daggers at me, but the

752
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 4: actual literal dagger is no longer in her hand, so

753
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 4: I think it's safe for us to start the episode story.

754
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 2: Well, okay, yes, I do have a couple of things

755
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 2: I wanted to bring up because after all of this

756
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: was coming out, maybe more women are playing games? What

757
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 2: does that mean? People were trying to.

758
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 4: Women they're a thing? Did you know?

759
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 2: Did you know we could have been making money off

760
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 2: of this whole demographic? Oh my gosh, it's so frustrating because,

761
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 2: like you said, women have been creating games that they've

762
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 2: been playing games forever, but there was a whole like

763
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 2: gendered marketing thing that happened in the eighties and yep. Anyway,

764
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 2: there was a lot of what's going on here. Obviously,

765
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 2: one of the things that came up was casual games

766
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 2: and cozy games are easier to pick up, they're more accessible,

767
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 2: and women we've talked about recently on a recent episode,

768
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 2: they have less leisure time, So it's quite possible that

769
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: that is one of the reasons is like I can

770
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,919
Speaker 2: just pick this up whenever I have time. I don't

771
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 2: have to go through the tutorial of how all of

772
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 2: this works, like it's pretty simple in between all the

773
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 2: other things you've got going on. Social media for the

774
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 2: first time was actually more marketing games towards women, in

775
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 2: some cases very problematically so as you were mentioning, but

776
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 2: it is one of the first times where these games

777
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 2: were being marketed towards women, and things like content creators

778
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 2: and social media also helped. But I think we do

779
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 2: have to emphasize as well that it has been when

780
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 2: you're talking about things like Activision, Blizzard, when you're talking

781
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 2: about online harassment, it's been a space that has often

782
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 2: been very hostile and even if somebody didn't outright experience

783
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 2: the hostility, just the reputation of it was enough to

784
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: be like, oh, I don't want to I'm not welcome

785
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:38,760
Speaker 2: in that world.

786
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this episode overall is all about joy and

787
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 4: acceptance and accessibility and celebrating connectivity and all this sort

788
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 4: of thing, but we have to address a very awful,

789
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 4: terrible elephant in the room. So yeah, I wish I

790
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 4: could say that the gaming industry and the audience for

791
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 4: games in general all came to embrace and celebrate the

792
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 4: fact that there was a more diverse group of gamers

793
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 4: out there then typically gets represented. But no, that's not

794
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 4: the way it unfolded. There were trashy people who mostly

795
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 4: gathered on eight chan. If you don't know what eight

796
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 4: chan is and you've heard of four chan, eight chan

797
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 4: is four chan but worse, and they got together and

798
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 4: created a coordinated smear campaign that was targeting women in games,

799
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 4: whether they were women creators like developers, or they were

800
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 4: in the gaming media industry where they were reporting on games.

801
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 4: And this ended up getting the name from the actor

802
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 4: Adam Baldwin. You might remember him from Firefly, a show

803
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 4: that I used to like to watch, and gamer gate

804
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 4: became a thing in twenty fourteen, and on its surface,

805
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 4: the perpetuators of game or gate said it was all

806
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 4: about addressing and unfair and biased practices in media, in

807
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 4: games media. In reality, what it was was a harassment

808
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:15,760
Speaker 4: campaign that specifically singled out women and non binary people

809
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 4: in the space and tried to run them out of it.

810
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 4: And this extended beyond just online harassment to things like swatting,

811
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 4: where they were sending swat teams to people's homes, or

812
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 4: sending disturbing male or sharing a you know, doxing people online.

813
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 4: And it was a perfect catalog of all the worst

814
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 4: behaviors that you would hear about on the internet, all

815
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 4: directed at women for having the temerity to be both

816
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 4: women and people who like to play games. And it

817
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 4: was the worst, and it lasted for like two years

818
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 4: until it kind of died down when enough people said

819
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 4: that they were no longer buying the cover story of

820
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 4: this is about game journalism, because it's so clearly was

821
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 4: not so much so that even Wikipedia, if you go

822
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 4: to Wikipedia and look up gamergate, it actually has i

823
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 4: think in brackets it says an online harassment campaign. So

824
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 4: it's gamergate online harassment campaign, like that's what they It's not,

825
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 4: you know, championing ethics in game journalism the way that

826
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 4: they were claiming. So that was super ugly and for

827
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 4: someone like me, as naive and idiotic as I am

828
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 4: being not having that experience like I have not had

829
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 4: the experience of being confronted with this kind of stuff

830
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 4: in my day to day life, seeing it so bare,

831
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 4: like an undeniable out there was a real wake up

832
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 4: call that was long overdue for me, honestly, because it

833
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 4: was undeniable what was happening, and that the fact that

834
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 4: it was happening in the open, it was one of

835
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 4: those things that I thought was really disturbing. This would

836
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 4: eventually dovetail into the me too movement and you would

837
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 4: start to see more and more people come out and

838
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 4: support women and the stories they had to tell, not

839
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 4: just in gaming obviously, but in all venues and in

840
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 4: some ways I think ultimately it's a good thing, but

841
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 4: it was such a truly brutal time online and in

842
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 4: the gaming industry in general.

843
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 3: Oh trying not to be the negative nancy, and we

844
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,919
Speaker 3: were trying to do very positive I wish we could

845
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 3: say that was the end and everything has changed for

846
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 3: the better and everybody accepts everyone into this world. But

847
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 3: since then, we've had incidents in Twitch where deep fakes

848
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 3: are made of female creators. We've seen people attacking trans

849
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 3: creators like Nobody's business people, attacking influencers who'd say they

850
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 3: like a certain game like I definitely love following, like

851
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 3: you were talking about different YouTubers and TikTokers who talk

852
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 3: about cozy gaming specifically like that's now part of my world,

853
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 3: and them having to do like every six months of

854
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 3: video saying please stop harassing me, Please stop telling me

855
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 3: I'm not a gamer, please, like having to do something

856
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 3: that seems so needless and so honestly like good for them,

857
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 3: I hope they're making making money off of that video,

858
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:13,879
Speaker 3: but the fact that they have to take their time

859
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 3: and do another video to call out the haters, essentially,

860
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 3: because it seems like it's a constant basis every time

861
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 3: I've ever seen and again it maybe because Twitter has

862
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,919
Speaker 3: changed so vastly in the last few years, but even

863
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 3: before it did change hands, I remember looking at one

864
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,919
Speaker 3: specific group, a nonprofit feminist frequency. Yes, their whole thing

865
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 3: is to try to educate as well as advocate for

866
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 3: women and non binding people in the community, in the

867
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 3: gaming community. Every time they would post something, I swear

868
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 3: about seventy percent of the comments to them were literal

869
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 3: dick pics. Yeah, and that was after the fact. So

870
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 3: there's so much And again though back to there's so

871
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 3: many people that are like you, Jonathan, who are like,

872
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 3: what is going on? Why would you do this?

873
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: This is silly?

874
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 3: Why can't everybody be a part of this? This seems unnecessary.

875
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 3: So there's definitely people who have become more and more supporters,

876
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 3: but there's still that negativity that still have people and

877
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 3: a lot of marginalized people questioning should I even try?

878
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, it suggests to me that there's some deep things

879
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 4: that go well beyond the gaming sphere that are contributors

880
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 4: to this kind of behavior. I mean obviously, because like

881
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 4: I think anyone could say, well, if you don't like

882
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 4: those kinds of games, and you don't consider them games,

883
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 4: why don't you just follow the people who like the

884
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,439
Speaker 4: kinds of games you like? And then you know, other

885
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 4: people can enjoy this thing and it doesn't like the

886
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 4: fact that it exists doesn't mean you're required to enjoy

887
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 4: it or engage with it. Go and do the things

888
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 4: you like to do. So why do you have to

889
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 4: why do you feel the need to engage in a

890
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 4: negative way with this world that doesn't speak to you?

891
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 4: Just go do the thing that does speak to you.

892
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 4: And I think the answer to that question is, Oh,

893
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 4: I see. There's a deeper level of misogyny and transphobia

894
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 4: and tribalism that's at play, that is driving these behaviors,

895
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 4: and this is just an easy way for that to manifest,

896
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 4: and in some ways has been treated as an acceptable

897
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 4: way for it to manifest, because again, gaming for so

898
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 4: long was perceived to be the domain of young male

899
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 4: leisurely activity. And maybe that's a whole lot of armchair psychology,

900
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 4: and none of it is supportable. It's entirely possible, But

901
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 4: from my own observations, it's the implication I feel pressed

902
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 4: upon me when I see these kinds of things unfold.

903
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 2: Yes, And if this were a different episode of Jonathan,

904
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 2: I would unpack so much of that, like the history

905
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 2: of dudes feeling maligned because they were nerds, and now

906
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,439
Speaker 2: nerd is cool and they don't the gatekeeping, they don't

907
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 2: want anybody the pedestals. Yeah, yes, and the reason like

908
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 2: it's a real game and not a real game skill level,

909
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 2: and you could never obtain this skill, which yes I can.

910
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 2: But anyway, one of the things that really upsets me

911
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 2: about all of this a lot of things, but one

912
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 2: of the things that really upsets me is that games

913
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 2: are fun and they are a good stress reliever. As

914
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 2: we were talking about, there's been scientific studies into all

915
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 2: of the things that they can help with. We've had

916
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 2: listeners right in that say it helps them with things

917
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 2: like PTSD, can like, it can relieve your stress, your anxiety,

918
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 2: it can lift your mood, it can foster connection. It's

919
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 2: being used in all kinds of treatments for things, and

920
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 2: so obviously there's a lot going on there. There's been

921
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 2: a long standing narrative about games and mental health. But

922
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:05,240
Speaker 2: it's really unfortunate to have like a whole demographic where

923
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 2: it is either they're missing out on it entirely because

924
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 2: they don't feel welcome or it's a stressor because they

925
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 2: kind of get harassed if they play.

926
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, no, that that sucks. If any of

927
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 4: my listeners out there ever find yourself tempted to like

928
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 4: criticize someone for the things that they like, if those

929
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 4: things aren't hurting anyone. Just think twice about it. As

930
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 4: I often stress this show, the underlying philosophy is a

931
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 4: combination of critical thinking and compassion. That compassion piece is important,

932
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 4: I say over and over again. If you are compassionate

933
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 4: but you lack critical thinking, you're a dip. And if

934
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 4: you are a critical thinker but you lack compassion, you're

935
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 4: a jerk. Don't be a dip or a jerk. Combine

936
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 4: the two together, and then you can be you know,

937
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 4: or at least try to be a good person. It's

938
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 4: a good step. It's a good start, a foundation. Really.

939
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 4: But yeah, I completely agree with everything you said, Annie,

940
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 4: I mean, like my listeners know this, but this might

941
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 4: be news to you, and I apologize. But earlier this year,

942
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 4: I had a massive medical emergency and nearly died and

943
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 4: spent quite some time in the intensive care unit of

944
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 4: a local hospital here in the Atlanta area, where everyone

945
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 4: was super nice. And a part of that medical emergency

946
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:36,959
Speaker 4: was due to stress. My blood pressure had reached level

947
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,319
Speaker 4: of two sixteen over one point thirty, which is in

948
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:44,879
Speaker 4: stroke territory if you're curious. Uh, And so I had

949
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:47,720
Speaker 4: to do many, many, many things to try and find

950
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 4: ways to change my lifestyle to improve my stress levels.

951
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 4: And I did lots of stuff, like I reduced my workload,

952
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 4: I started to eat better better, and then the holidays happened,

953
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 4: but anyway, I was eating better for most of the year.

954
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 4: And these games, these cozy games, were one of the

955
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 4: ways I would manage my anxiety and my stress. When

956
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 4: I would feel them coming on and I had a

957
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 4: little extra time, I would play these games. I would

958
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 4: let me focus on something that was not stressful. There

959
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 4: were no real like there's like steaks, but they're all

960
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 4: very low level stakes. You know, will Emily agree to

961
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 4: go to the movies with me in Stardue Valley Or

962
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna have to go back to Sandy and

963
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 4: boy she's a pill? Yeah, you know, and so like

964
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 4: low steaks. So I but I found them, Like I again,

965
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 4: this is anecdotal, but I found them very therapeutic. And

966
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 4: to me, when you have an experience like that that

967
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 4: you feel directly benefits like your life and is potentially

968
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 4: keeping you alive or at least helping to you know,

969
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 4: when you when we tell these stories about people who

970
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 4: feel turned away from the hobby or they're criticized for

971
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 4: liking a certain type of game because it's not a

972
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:16,320
Speaker 4: different type of game. It really is upsetting because I'm like, y'all,

973
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 4: these games kept me from going insane and having blood

974
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 4: pressure to the point where I had to go back

975
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 4: into the hospital. I think this is something that is

976
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 4: worth experiencing, or if you don't want to experience it,

977
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 4: just let other people enjoy what they're enjoying.

978
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: I'm really glad you're okay.

979
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:37,720
Speaker 4: Thank you. Yeah, I mean, well, okay is a really

980
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 4: broad term.

981
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 1: We're gonna say, yes, okay, are you Are you feeling better?

982
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 4: My blood pressure is lower?

983
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:46,280
Speaker 2: Okay.

984
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 4: The surgery I had to have earlier this year went well.

985
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 3: So.

986
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: Glad to hear it.

987
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 3: Glad that you're okay, We're glad you're back with us.

988
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 3: And yes, less to the to the workload. Yeah, good

989
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 3: on you. I know that's noting hard for you. I

990
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 3: might not know you well, but I know that you

991
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 3: do work a lot, So good on you for falling back.

992
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,479
Speaker 3: But here's the other thing to this too. Not only

993
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 3: is it yes, all the stress relief because I'm with you,

994
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 3: because I need that as well. I found out I've

995
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,879
Speaker 3: got a perfect game for you that has an ending.

996
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 3: But it's beautiful, it's very stress relieving. But one of

997
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 3: the things this is a money making industry and not

998
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 3: just for developers, not just for companies. But we talked

999
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 3: about influencers. It opened the door for so many people

1000
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,240
Speaker 3: to be able to be a part of this industry

1001
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 3: which seemed geared towards men. So even in twitch, twitch streams,

1002
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 3: twitch creators, people have been making bank and you rarely

1003
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:43,800
Speaker 3: see women in there, but when you do, it's pretty

1004
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 3: cool to me to see so many being able to

1005
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 3: play any games. It's not just cozy games, it's all

1006
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 3: these games. But even more so, like we were talking

1007
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,879
Speaker 3: about with TikTok, we're talking about with YouTube like being

1008
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 3: able to make money off of content. That's something that

1009
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 3: wasn't previously done before. So we have creators like we've

1010
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 3: talked about. You talked about gab Smoulders, which I wouldn't

1011
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 3: want to hear more about her because I'm going to

1012
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 3: follow her. But Cozy Kay is one of the ones

1013
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 3: that really got me into finding these different games. And

1014
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 3: she makes this aesthetic like her whole thing is the

1015
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 3: aesthetics of it all. She loves the game, don't don't

1016
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 3: play she she loves the game. But like with her aesthetics,

1017
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 3: she's being able to make a living through this content

1018
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 3: and she does an amazing, amazing job. She's gotten sponsorships

1019
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 3: through these games. She's gotten sponsorships from blanket companies and

1020
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 3: candle companies because again, it goes along with that cozy vibe.

1021
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,720
Speaker 3: And this opens up so much more for marginalized people

1022
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:41,720
Speaker 3: to be able to be a part of an industry

1023
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 3: they thought they could never be a part of previously,

1024
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 3: because yeah, maybe their thing is not playing I'm sorry

1025
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 3: any but last of us because they don't want their

1026
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 3: heart to be torn out of their chest every few days.

1027
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 2: Then I'm sorry, but.

1028
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 3: Like, you see so much more like. And then you

1029
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 3: have people like Milady Confetti, who is another creator that

1030
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 3: she's on a podcast, her podcast, Nerdy Magical Girl Podcast

1031
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 3: where she gets to talk about her love of cozy

1032
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 3: games and gaming in general and just all things nerdy.

1033
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:15,840
Speaker 3: But this really opened up a door for her to

1034
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 3: be a content creator that she couldn't have been previously

1035
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 3: or may not have had the opportunity previously. So this

1036
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 3: is such a moneymaker for not only again the creators

1037
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 3: are the developers, but so many more people out there

1038
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 3: and I think that's amazing. Yeah, because we need more

1039
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 3: content like this.

1040
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I like. I love the creators who engage

1041
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 4: in the cozy and also the silly like I like

1042
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 4: creators who are who don't have that ego or being

1043
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 4: and they're not being silly like in a prankish way

1044
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 4: where they're constantly pranking each other. I don't like the

1045
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 4: pranks like this one. So many pranks are clearly pre

1046
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 4: arranged and not actually pranks. They're just performative and y'all

1047
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 4: that's just not cool. But two like there usually mean spirited,

1048
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 4: and I'm not big on that either. My friend Shay

1049
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 4: would say, well, it's because you're a cancer. You just

1050
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 4: want everyone to be friendly all the time. Like, yeah,

1051
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 4: I do want I don't believe in astrology, but I

1052
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 4: do want people to be friendly all the time. Gosh

1053
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 4: darn it, So I total cancer. But but yeah, I

1054
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 4: like I like the people who they They love the cozy,

1055
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 4: they love being silly, they love laughing. Like that's the

1056
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 4: vibe I yearn for when I'm going on to watch content.

1057
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 4: So like gab Smolders, who I did mention earlier. She

1058
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 4: does a lot of different games like not just cozy games.

1059
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 4: She also really really and any you dig this, she

1060
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 4: loves creepy, spooky, supernatural horror type games, so those are

1061
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 4: like the two categories she typically does. And you never

1062
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 4: know if it's gonna be a cozy game or if

1063
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 4: it's gonna be a this thing's going to eat your

1064
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 4: face off. Your face game. Typically not an action oriented game.

1065
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 4: It's usually more like like Japanese horror aesthetic going on.

1066
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 4: She does a lot of games from Itchyo.

1067
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 3: But.

1068
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 4: I love it whenever it's cozy, because she herself will

1069
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 4: make herself cozy. She has a cat named BIB and

1070
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 4: BB is a big, old, fluffy tabby cat who who

1071
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 4: very frequently will interrupt her videos and BB just becomes

1072
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 4: part of the video and like BB, has BB's own

1073
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 4: fan club. But yeah, potions is how I learned potions

1074
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 4: from gab Smolders. I've watched her play Stardu Valley. I've

1075
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 4: watched her play lots of these cozy games, including the

1076
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 4: ones that have sort of a creepy element to them.

1077
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 4: So that's why Annie, I think you definitely need to

1078
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 4: check her out. She's originally from the Netherlands, now living

1079
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 4: in England, and her accent is also adorable. It's it's

1080
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 4: not super strong, but it's one of the many things

1081
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 4: that I actually find very comforting when I'm watching these.

1082
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 4: It's almost to the point of being ASMR without being ASMR,

1083
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 4: Like it's not intentionally you could argue unintentional ASMR unless

1084
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 4: she's playing one of the really super wacky games where

1085
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 4: it's just way too much laughing for it to be relaxing.

1086
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 4: It's just very fun. But yeah, highly recommend gab Smolder's

1087
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 4: Her content is great. If you go to her channel,

1088
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 4: say I sent you. She doesn't know who I am,

1089
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 4: it'd just be fun.

1090
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 2: Who was this?

1091
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly who's Jonathan from text? Who's this guy?

1092
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 2: Well? I mean that's such a useful. There are so

1093
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 2: many video games. It's so useful to have someone who

1094
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 2: you trust to recommend or not recommend in case maybe so,

1095
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 2: I do think that's really valuable. I found a lot

1096
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 2: of horror games through people where they're like, oh, have

1097
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 2: you seen this someone else playing it? And kind of

1098
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 2: to the getting with the cat and the blanket. A

1099
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:59,479
Speaker 2: lot of people say, like for them, the cozy game

1100
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 2: is is like you get in your blanket, you get

1101
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 2: your bed or you get the warm drink. And that's

1102
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 2: why a lot of cozy games are on portable things

1103
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 2: like Switch. Yeah, So I do think that's important part

1104
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 2: of this conversation as well, the rise of portable gaming systems.

1105
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 2: I also read some people describe it as being meditative

1106
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 2: and that's why they kind of feel that health benefit

1107
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 2: when they play. But I do think unfortunately gaming, and

1108
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 2: it specifically cozy gaming, is often dismissed as like there's

1109
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 2: no value in this, or in fact it's doing you harm.

1110
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 2: But beyond the high stress times we live in, and

1111
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 2: there have been studies that show these do help. They

1112
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 2: are also when we're talking about why it matters. It

1113
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 2: matters that we're looking at different ways games can look

1114
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 2: based on who's creating them. It matters when we're talking

1115
01:01:56,280 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 2: about like how we define the structure or it is winning,

1116
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 2: when we're talking about inclusive inclusivity and storytelling, our creativity

1117
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 2: to give us these better stories, these more varied stories,

1118
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 2: and just women, having more women and marginalized people in

1119
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 2: gaming and redefining what a gamer is so we can

1120
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 2: hopefully one day move on from that conversation and we

1121
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 2: can move on to like improving in a different way.

1122
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 2: I'm tired of being stuck on this one part. Yeah,

1123
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 2: let's let's talk about like why these cozy games are

1124
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 2: so valuable and why people love them, and let's stop

1125
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:32,920
Speaker 2: dismissing them as useless.

1126
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 4: Yeah or not real games. Yeah, yeah, I think. I

1127
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 4: think if everyone were to play Gone Home Sincerely. Like literally,

1128
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 4: you sit down, you play Gone Home Sincerely, and you

1129
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 4: can't talk about that game because it ruins the game.

1130
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 4: But you get to the end of Gone Home, and

1131
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 4: the by the end of Gone Home, the game has

1132
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 4: turned out to be not what you thought it was

1133
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 4: when you started, Like, I think it's safe to say

1134
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 4: that it is different. And if you are not moved

1135
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 4: by the end of that, just you know, like maybe

1136
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 4: maybe keep your opinions to yourself, because for the rest

1137
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 4: of us, it would be really nice if we could

1138
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 4: all just celebrate something that like tells such a beautiful

1139
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 4: story that unfolds in such an amazing way and has

1140
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 4: a killer soundtrack that you know, we can all celebrate

1141
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 4: in something and maybe for someone like me have a

1142
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 4: chance to see the world from a perspective entirely different

1143
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:33,440
Speaker 4: from my day to day experience, and that to me

1144
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 4: is one of those really valuable elements of this is

1145
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 4: that one, people who have largely been underrepresented or not

1146
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 4: even represented at all within video games get to have

1147
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 4: an experience that reflects their reality. That I think is

1148
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 4: invaluable by itself. The added benefit is that people like me,

1149
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 4: who have been catered to for my entire life get

1150
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 4: to have an experience outside of what I normally get

1151
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 4: to live, and it just it opens up your eyes

1152
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 4: and it's a beautiful thing.

1153
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 2: Yes, the power of storytelling in games because it's you

1154
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 2: playing like there's a part of you in it. I

1155
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 2: think that is so if you genuinely allow yourself to

1156
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 2: be moved, if the game's good, you will be moved. Yeah,

1157
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 2: And I think that is incredibly, incredibly powerful, and honestly,

1158
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 2: I'm kind it's kind of tragic because the people who

1159
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 2: are dismissing cozy games could really use them.

1160
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 4: Oh yeah a lot. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. I do think

1161
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 4: it's funny that you said the Last of Us is

1162
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 4: instmat that you said the Last of Us is Annie's

1163
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 4: cozy game. It's so not a cozy game in any way,

1164
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 4: shape or form. It will say, however, Episode three, I

1165
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 4: think of the Last of Us TV show is perhaps

1166
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 4: the best television I've ever seen in my entire life.

1167
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 4: So if you haven't seen the HBO adaptation of the

1168
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 4: first Last of Us game, you need to see that

1169
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 4: because it's probably the most beautiful love story.

1170
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 2: Yes, tears, so many tears.

1171
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I cried for days. I cried. I cried.

1172
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 4: I cried describing the episode to my partner, who did

1173
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 4: not My partner never played the game, had no interest

1174
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 4: in the show, and I was like, I have to

1175
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 4: tell you because I have to talk about this.

1176
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 2: I've got to share it with someone like.

1177
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 4: I love Nick Offerman so much more and I already

1178
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 4: loved him as much as I thought I could. Hey, there,

1179
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 4: this is Jonathan from the future. Hey, y'all know how

1180
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:42,520
Speaker 4: this works. This means that we kept on talking and

1181
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 4: the show kept getting longer. So Annie and Samantha, who

1182
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 4: are still on the call with me, now have to

1183
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 4: listen to me throw to more sponsors. So we'll be

1184
01:05:52,880 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 4: right back. Let's sort of move out toward the end here.

1185
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 4: We've been chatting for quite a long time, and there's

1186
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 4: so much more we could say. Obviously, this is a

1187
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 4: very important topic. It sounds silly to say cozy games

1188
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 4: is an important topic, but it absolutely is for all

1189
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:19,880
Speaker 4: the different reasons that we've listed, from the benefits to

1190
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 4: the increased representation to the entrance of people with new

1191
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 4: perspectives in the world of video game development, which ultimately

1192
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 4: benefits everybody. Even if you don't play the game, it

1193
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 4: benefits you. Just chill out, you're gonna get the benefits.

1194
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 4: Let's talk about some recommendations that we each have. We've

1195
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 4: mentioned some of them already, but Samantha, let's hear your

1196
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 4: recommendations for some cozy games.

1197
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 3: So kind of going on the storytelling ones, I've got

1198
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 3: two and this one, Snuffkins, is probably one of the

1199
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 3: most cozy. Like you sit and just look at the

1200
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 3: scenery types. The drawings are beautiful, the music is relaxing,

1201
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 3: the characters are cut and there's a whole little story.

1202
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 1: It is like I think.

1203
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 3: It only takes like a few hours to finish up,

1204
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 3: because it is very like from beginning to end.

1205
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 1: But it's such a great till you should take a chance.

1206
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 3: I actually sent Annie a picture of myself getting real

1207
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 3: cozy doing this and sent her pictures of clips of

1208
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:17,280
Speaker 3: the game because it's like, you have to see this

1209
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 3: game she hasn't yet, but it's such a such a

1210
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 3: fun game. And then Coffee Talk, which has a one

1211
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 3: and two. It's really interesting, kind of goes into like

1212
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 3: eighties nineties graphics, but it tells a whole story and

1213
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 3: you've got to.

1214
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 1: Make coffee throughout.

1215
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 3: So I think those two are like two great storytelling games.

1216
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 3: And then Cozy Grove if you like a haunted Bear

1217
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:39,200
Speaker 3: Island is exactly what you think.

1218
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 2: I love it.

1219
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 1: I love it so much and it does.

1220
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 3: It is also in real time, so it changes with

1221
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 3: the seasons with you and the day and the night.

1222
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 3: There's Donut County, So if you like mayhem and chaos

1223
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 3: and raccoons, go for it.

1224
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 1: I love funny.

1225
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 4: I love funny.

1226
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 3: There's little puzzles throughout you have to solve in order

1227
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 3: to make things happen, whether catch on fire, are put

1228
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 3: into a hole.

1229
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 1: You just go with that.

1230
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 3: And then Lemon Cake if you like to make and

1231
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 3: bake things. I think it's a really cute graphics and

1232
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 3: it teaches you different recipes.

1233
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 4: Wow.

1234
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 1: So those are my recommendations for today.

1235
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:15,440
Speaker 4: I like how it could change tomorrow.

1236
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 2: I can't good it could mine. I'm gonna disclaim I

1237
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:22,639
Speaker 2: love horror so much. These are definitely not for everyone,

1238
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:24,719
Speaker 2: and some would argue they don't count. Also, we didn't

1239
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:28,559
Speaker 2: go into this, but there's an argument about your comfort

1240
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:30,680
Speaker 2: game and your cozy game. So Last of Us two

1241
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 2: would be my comfort game, not my cozy game. But

1242
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:37,719
Speaker 2: so mine are Oxen Free, which is just really pretty

1243
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 2: kind of text based game. It's got a cool story.

1244
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 2: It's very stranger Things Gone Home, which yes, we've talked about.

1245
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:46,800
Speaker 2: I won't go into it. It's really good. And then

1246
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 2: I also liked Coffee Talk, which Samantha had me play,

1247
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 2: and it's just really fun. It's got like vampires and

1248
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:52,480
Speaker 2: wear wolves and you're making coffee.

1249
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:56,599
Speaker 4: I love it. Holy cow, I've never heard of that before.

1250
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 4: I'll have to look that one up. As for myself, well,

1251
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 4: one I want to mention is a game called Pentiment.

1252
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:05,280
Speaker 4: I don't know if either of you have ever seen this.

1253
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:09,440
Speaker 4: It's a game where you're playing a artist in medieval

1254
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 4: Europe and you are illuminating manuscripts and all of the

1255
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:17,960
Speaker 4: dialogue is in word bubbles, and every character has their

1256
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:20,679
Speaker 4: own handwriting style, so like if you're talking to a monk,

1257
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 4: it's super fancy type setting. And if you're talking to

1258
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:27,599
Speaker 4: a commoner. It's like more like Chicken Scratch. But then

1259
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 4: murder happens, and you're essentially there to help try and

1260
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 4: solve murders. Here's the thing about Pentiment. You're never told

1261
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:39,639
Speaker 4: what actually happened. You have to determine what you think happened,

1262
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 4: and you come to your conclusion and you present your argument.

1263
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:46,160
Speaker 4: But even at the end of the game, you're never

1264
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:49,519
Speaker 4: told if you were right or wrong. So that's kind

1265
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:54,599
Speaker 4: of a fascinating element that I had not anticipated from

1266
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:58,560
Speaker 4: such a game. Other suggestions, I mean, Stardi Valley is

1267
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 4: always going to be a suggestion, but we you've talked

1268
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 4: about that, you know, ad nauseum. I would say Disney

1269
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 4: Dreamlight Valley. If you're a total Disney nut. It's very

1270
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 4: heavily branded to Disney, so if you're not into it,

1271
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 4: it is not your thing. But it's very cozy And

1272
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 4: for the Lovecraftian horror fans out there, you should play Dredge,

1273
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:23,160
Speaker 4: a creepy deep sea fishing game, but it's it's kind

1274
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 4: of cozy. You're like running a boat and fishing in

1275
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:28,960
Speaker 4: different areas, and it's not like super It doesn't have

1276
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 4: like a lot of twitchy elements to it, and the

1277
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:36,000
Speaker 4: story is really entertaining, but it does have a Lovecraftian

1278
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:38,960
Speaker 4: kind of weird horror energy going.

1279
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:41,479
Speaker 1: On in that nice I'll have to look at that.

1280
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:44,599
Speaker 4: It's fun. There's another game called Dave the Diver, where

1281
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 4: by day you are diving to capture fish and by

1282
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 4: night you run a sushi restaurant. And the funny thing

1283
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:55,120
Speaker 4: is Dave the Diver actually has a crossover with Dredge,

1284
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:57,560
Speaker 4: and they also did a crossover with Godzilla.

1285
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 3: Oh really, of course they did. That's that sounds. Is

1286
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:04,720
Speaker 3: this Japanese because that's the Japanese Oh really.

1287
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:07,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a Korean game, and it is. It is wild.

1288
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:11,719
Speaker 4: It is Uh, it's the The local translation is pretty

1289
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:14,400
Speaker 4: good for Dave the Diver, but there are little bits

1290
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 4: where you're like, oh, this was not this was not

1291
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:21,240
Speaker 4: made in America. Uh. It is a is a fantastic game, though,

1292
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:23,679
Speaker 4: Dave the Diver and Dredge together, if you can play

1293
01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 4: the two of them, I would recommend playing Dredge first

1294
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:30,719
Speaker 4: and then Dave the Diver. Uh. They're great companion games. Well,

1295
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 4: Annie and Samantha, this has been a great conversation. You know,

1296
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 4: we talked about some heavy stuff, but we talked about

1297
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 4: a lot of fun and joyful stuff too, And I

1298
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:42,880
Speaker 4: think that is uh the perfect kind of tech stuff

1299
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 4: episode right where it's it's not all grim and dour

1300
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:51,720
Speaker 4: and dystopian, but at the same time, we take the

1301
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:56,639
Speaker 4: effort to explore the maybe you know, the the more

1302
01:11:56,760 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 4: unseemly sides of a of a topic, because only by

1303
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 4: addressing it can we ever hope to make things better.

1304
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:08,479
Speaker 4: That's at least my own opinion. I realize that I

1305
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:10,640
Speaker 4: may be an eternal optimist.

1306
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 2: Well that's a good way to be. Thank you so

1307
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:19,759
Speaker 2: much for having us. It has been a delight.

1308
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:23,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a great way to kind of run down

1309
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:28,559
Speaker 4: my run on tech stuff because I didn't reach out

1310
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:32,640
Speaker 4: enough to my fellow stuff podcasters. It can get so

1311
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:35,760
Speaker 4: easy for us to get into our own routines and

1312
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:39,639
Speaker 4: the grind and just trying to create episode after episode.

1313
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 4: I don't know how it is for y'all, but for me,

1314
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 4: there would be moments like I would wake up in

1315
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:47,639
Speaker 4: the morning and I would just start the dread of

1316
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 4: what am I going to find to talk about this

1317
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:53,760
Speaker 4: week would start to descend upon me, and that was

1318
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:56,240
Speaker 4: enough to prevent me from even just reaching out. I

1319
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 4: now wish one of my biggest regrets is that I

1320
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 4: didn't reach out more to do collaborative episodes with with

1321
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:07,920
Speaker 4: my fellow Stuff podcasters, in particular because I know we

1322
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:10,800
Speaker 4: worked together so well. Because Annie and I had to

1323
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:15,880
Speaker 4: she sat at my left hand side, and poor Lauren,

1324
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:19,040
Speaker 4: who sat across from us, had to endure just an

1325
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:20,759
Speaker 4: endless supply of puns.

1326
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 2: True. True, we owe her a lot.

1327
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, apologies. Yeah pizza maybe I don't know, but

1328
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:32,400
Speaker 4: not on a delivery app service. We talked about that

1329
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:37,160
Speaker 4: and boy those no okay, but yeah, I thank you

1330
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 4: so much for coming on. It was it was a

1331
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:39,960
Speaker 4: real pleasure.

1332
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:42,160
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having us. I'm glad we

1333
01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 2: got to do this. Before you hang up your tech

1334
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 2: stuff coach chat.

1335
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:51,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what, I got so little merch after

1336
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:53,720
Speaker 4: running it for sixteen and a half years. You'd think

1337
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:57,840
Speaker 4: i'd have at least a hoodie, But I've got a

1338
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 4: T shirt where most of the lettering is peeled off. Well,

1339
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 4: if if my listeners out there haven't heard by now,

1340
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:07,080
Speaker 4: you need to go and check out Stuff. Mom never

1341
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 4: told you the episodes are phenomenal. You tackle pretty much

1342
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:15,479
Speaker 4: any topic you can think of. The dating episode. As

1343
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:19,559
Speaker 4: I mentioned, it was so informative and interesting to hear

1344
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:22,599
Speaker 4: because again being out of the dating game for more

1345
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 4: than thirty years, now hearing how things have changed culturally, technologically, socially.

1346
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:33,759
Speaker 4: For one thing, I felt like I understood people better

1347
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:37,960
Speaker 4: because I'm rapidly descending into grouchy old man who yells

1348
01:14:37,960 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 4: at Cloud's territory.

1349
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:44,760
Speaker 2: I've been there for.

1350
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 4: Some of us. It's life goals. Honestly, you know, you

1351
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:52,280
Speaker 4: could be the person who's just like outside on the

1352
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 4: front lawn and everyone's like, oh, that's Jonathan. It's it's

1353
01:14:55,520 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 4: actually very freeing. For one thing, my my social calendar

1354
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:02,360
Speaker 4: is wide open now.

1355
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:06,000
Speaker 2: Yeah that's nice.

1356
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 4: Yeah. I like it. Like it's like, hey, no obligations,

1357
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:11,360
Speaker 4: I could do whatever I want. Let's play some cozy games, y'all.

1358
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:15,800
Speaker 4: And thus my STARDUW Valley hours played just grows and

1359
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:19,360
Speaker 4: grows for all of my listeners out there, I hope

1360
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 4: you enjoyed this episode. Go check out stuff Mom never

1361
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:25,479
Speaker 4: told you, and I will talk to you again really soon,

1362
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:34,519
Speaker 4: but only a couple more times. Tech Stuff is an

1363
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:40,080
Speaker 4: iHeartRadio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1364
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:46,920
Speaker 4: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

1365
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 2: And that brings us to the end of our time

1366
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:54,439
Speaker 2: on tech Stuff, where we got to talk about women

1367
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 2: and marginalized people in the gaming world. We hope that

1368
01:15:57,320 --> 01:16:01,520
Speaker 2: you enjoyed it. We always love getting suggestions from you listeners.

1369
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:04,360
Speaker 2: We've definitely taken those suggestions to heart and have played

1370
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:09,200
Speaker 2: some of those. So if you have any more or

1371
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:13,360
Speaker 2: any thoughts on any of this, please let us know.

1372
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:16,000
Speaker 2: You can email us at seventy mom Stuff at heartmeeeda

1373
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:18,400
Speaker 2: dot com. You can find us on blue Sky at

1374
01:16:18,400 --> 01:16:21,880
Speaker 2: mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff

1375
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 2: I've Never Told You. We have a YouTube page, we

1376
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:26,160
Speaker 2: have a tea public store, and we have a book

1377
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:28,400
Speaker 2: we can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as

1378
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:31,720
Speaker 2: always too, our super producer, Christina, our executive producer, and

1379
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:33,920
Speaker 2: your contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for

1380
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,160
Speaker 2: listening Stuffan Never Told You inspection of I Heart Radio.

1381
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:37,599
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check

1382
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:39,400
Speaker 2: out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you

1383
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:47,800
Speaker 2: listen to your favorite shows.